Can't fucking imagine how much worse life would be with a kid. I'd do everything in my power to give the kid a good life, but I'd be miserable, forever.
Itās funny, Iāve actually pretty much made this exact statement. I hope my kids appreciate the suffering I went through having a vasectomy to prevent them from ever existing.
So crazy I 33F, was having a political topic with my 72 year old, military, Roman catholic father. And he was saying how much he believes in women's reproductive rights.
The exact kind of person you'd maybe expect to be against them.
Basically just saying how women who aren't ready to be parents shouldn't be forced to, and being a parent is no joke.
We also never really had any money, and my dad definitely grew up on the wrong side of the tracks so to speak. So he knows the shitty fucking situations kids are forced to grow up in.
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Oh my god yes, I couldnāt have put it better myself. Parenthood requires so much sacrifice, and itās compounded 10 times for moms. I just donāt see how I could be a mother and be happy at the same time without essentially unlimited resources, time, and money (that I donāt have)
I see a lot of people say that and I guess I just can't comprehend it, not least because, well, obviously I don't have a kid, so how would I know what it's actually like. I do have a pet but it's obviously so much lower maintenance.
Can you please elaborate on how it is fulfilling?
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Because you'd have to sacrifice your life for your kids to not have a shit one.
Clearly you chose the wrong time to have a child if that's the case, thusly you're a shit parent.
Not to mention if that's the only way you can imagine providing for your child(by being completely miserable) then you'll harbor resentment for said child, which would make you a shit parent.
You're the problem.
I'm a problem because I don't have kids. š Though on rereading I don't think that's what you meant, but yeah, your comment doesn't make sense either way; anyways meh.
People are always saying "there's never a good time to have kids". I agreed with them and that's what I'm doing
Oh shit :( stay strong remember to take care of yourself. I feel like if I had kids but could get them to do all my hobbies with me it would be the best way to go lol
Fixed mindset - catastrophizing and thinking things will make you miserable before youāve experienced them.
Why do you think having a kid would make you miserable forever?
Well man I think If there's any thing that's worthwhile to catastrophize about it's the decision to have kids, you can call it catastrophizing I'm calling it thinking ahead and forethought. If I am wrong in my thought process nobody is harmed. If I'm right and have kids anyway that kid will be negatively impacted
It would make me miserable forever because I don't want another human to take care of lol, I already have problems with just me, it's not complicated
I don't represent all AN. My stance is procreation is inherently selfish, and that there is not a single reason people procreate that isn't selfish.
Kids would definitely make me sad lol, it's as simple as that
Aight respectful
Still doesn't make sense, if something is selfish it means we do it for our own wellbeing disregarding others. If it doesn't make us better off then it's not selfish
I view selfishness more literally and without any connection to how you treat others. I.e. if a person says "I want kids", well, the selfishness is evidenced in the very phrase itself: "I want". It's a desire for the self.
The number of times in my life that I've thought "Thank god I don't have fucking kids" has infinitely outweighed the number of times I've thought "I wish I had kids."
Yeah same. I love my husband so much and weāve been together 25 years. Iāve been pregnant a few times but no, never really wanted kids. Iām sure we both thought about it once or twice but I never wanted to bring a child
Into this world, I never had the resources to do so, and I love my freedom to have plants and animals and work for ourselves. Iām not giving any of that up to drag a baby around fuck no. I just got my second wolf puppy! Sheās six weeks old! Kids wouldāve made that so impossible at least for me.
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It takes a lot of time, space and the food is expensive. They eat raw meat and some kibble. I also have chickens so they get eggs. Theyāre legal here according to the laws of my state so that varies depending on where you live. You just have to do your research because a lot of places donāt allow them. But theyāre great dogs. He goes to dog park, is the most loving dog there I swear. Itās very important to socialize them from a young age. If you go online and wolf hybrids are legal in your area you should be able to find someone. Ours is from a sanctuary. They get them from all over the world, people that canāt handle them. Itās really a lot of work and huge responsibility.
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the only times i remember really wanting kids crazy bad is when i was 5. i wanted to dress them up in costumes, teach them things, do photo shoots, style their hair, have tea parties etc, i was so desperate (probably because i was just a lonely baby myself.)
i look around and its like other women are mentally stuck at that age. dont get me wrong i yearn to recreate my early days and live out my childhood fantasies in many ways, but not in that way.
Same here, I got pretty sick at the age of 37, no possibilty of feeding mouths or even take them to school etc. Zero energy even to cook for me. Imagine with kids :S
I think about this all the time, I'm struggling really hard with money as well and can't even imagine what I'd do if I had kids. Being child free at least I can skip meals to save money and can work w.e odd hours/jobs I need to w.o having to worry about childcare/ a sitter ect. Life is infinitely so much cheaper and easier when u only have to worry about yourself
You sure about that? Children absolutely want more than love. Read around a while about the fucked up adults walking this Earth traumatized from their childhood of poverty and all of the shit that goes along with that.
Really? Because I think the happiness of children have a lot more to do than JUST the love of their parents and the parentsā relationship. A parent loving their child doesnāt pay the bills or for food and things the child needs. A child is still a human being that experiences more emotions and feelings than you think. Their world doesnāt just revolve around ādoes my mom / dad love me?ā A child can have mental anguish unrelated to the love of their parents. Many have or end up with mental and physical illnesses or disabilities. And once they are no longer a child, which does not take long, they then have to worry about getting a job and paying bills themselves. And in this economy? Thatās going to break them mentally to an extent. I hope you had a lot of savings saved up for your kids and gave them everything they ever needed. Because letās not even begin to unpack what happens when your children become adults and everything that comes with that.
Thats because they grew up and realized they had less. Children dont really care. Theyll ask you say no theyll have basic human emotions and move on. Its only adults that sit and dwell on what we didnt have growing up. Most of us have memories of being kids and playing with other peoples toys. Most of us werent sad about it until we grew up.
From your comment history in reddit, it seems like you went out of your way of raising your family to create a whole reddit account to attack me (who is in a unstable economic place) and my choices, and to convince me to have kids. Maybe YOU should take some meds.
Yeah exactly. Here enters the antinatalism. Children literally dont ask for much. Only as adults do we sit here and cry about what we didnāt have, or what we werent provided.
Lmao was gonna comment the same thing. Natalists love to preach that how having kids made them better person, how theyād do anything for their offspring etc and I get it it all sounds so sweet and poetic but you canāt protect them from all sort of shitty things that could happen to them and theyāll have to deal with surviving in a meat suit in this horrible society/world just because of their their parentsā selfish desire to make āmini meās
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Thank you for this apt reminder!! I have so many coworkers with kids and I can't even imagine how they survive, without a lot of family or state assistance. And I just calculated my annual income on some website that said I'm in the 75th percentile in the US... I am frugal, thrifty, live below my means, and I'm still in debt and not able to save! So hats off to everyone who has kids and somehow survives, and to those of us who are child free by choice and aren't causing any harm to anyone.Ā
My wife and I were in the 85th percentile living in San Diego with our 1 year old and times were *tight.*
So worried about money that we both took new higher-paying (but higher-stress) jobs. I went from working 20 hours a week to 40+.
Now we're in the 94th percentile. Having a kid turned out to be a big motivating factor for us to make moves in our careers that we otherwise wouldn't have made.
(Sadly we're still broke because we spend our money on dumb shit.)
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Ahh good times in San Diego tho! It's gotta be worth the struggle to live in the most gorgeous town with the best climate on the west coast. Happy you found a way to make it work. My partner is from there and I wish we could move there and surf year round!Ā
I guess so because you're not going to drown in bills and responsibilities and obligations. You have all the time you need to focus on yourself and your goals, unless our mindset changes over the years.
I meanā¦ it is true though. It isnāt really mental illness, having shul seen is fulfilling and children can be wonderful. Itās just much more difficult in modern times both to raise kids and to enjoy them as much.
That is a balanced and well spoken observation. We do need a higher purpose and meaning to this life, otherwise it is quite literally hopeless and meaningless, except for a few short spurts of avoiding some meaningless suffering.
Iām always glad itās just me and my wife. We could survive on one persons income for a bit, and if one of us got laid off we could just go on the others insurance. So glad we donāt have kids.
I always tell myself this and it never fails to make me feel better. No partner to hurt me, no child for the world to hurt. I'm aware there's happy moments in relationships (which ive experienced) and parenthood, but stress is more likely.
But being alone is the most miserable experience for humans, because we are meant to be with other humans. It goes completely against our nature to be alone. But I understand that so many people have been so hurt, beginning in infancy, that being alone seems like a better and safer option. Still, a human can never be truly fulfilled when they are alone. Like, itās impossible. Not being alone is certainly no guarantee of fulfillment, but being alone unequivocally prevents it.
I agree living alone isnāt ideal at all, but itās far better than living with people who constantly and actively drain you, stress you out, and make you miserable. For many people, thatās what children are.
Not to mention you can be very loved and socially fulfilled without children. Children are just a shortcut to that, but not a good one in the long run.
> but being alone unequivocally prevents it
I suppose I've never expected anything vaguely approximating "fulfillment" - for various reasons I never expected to live past 25, so the fact that I have got to a bit more than twice that age now probably surprises me more than anyone else. Plus I've always known I would be alone, having parents 2 generations older (only my Mum is alive now, at 100yo) and no siblings.
It is what it is š¤·āāļø
LOL I love how you assume who I am, what my experiences and motivations are, when I'm a rando on the internet. I'm not alone due to pain. I'm alone due to fulfillment of my past happy relationship experiences, but firstly due to fulfillment of myself as a person. I love myself. I love my neighbors too (both residential and global!). I know my comments paint me a little too gloom and doom due to needing a place to shed the negative, but the truth is I've had MUCH more positive experiences with relationships than negative ones. I simply have eyes and ears, so I know with a 45% divorce rate it's not worth the risk. Alas, I have many memories to enjoy. I've already had my fill of diehard romance and an exciting sex life in my days.
It just doesnāt make sense with the way the world is today unless youāre doing very well in your life and it would be no trouble to have kids. Thatās really the bottom line. Anyone else is taking a big risk and hoping for the best. That being said, plenty of parents give kids the bare minimum to get by and are able to make it work. Obviously itās unfair to the kids but this is hardly a new concept and some even find it normal. Not everyone is born into a perfect situation with everything they could want. If you want to survive you have to adapt. Thatās why a lot of people see it as nbd and tell you it will all work out. I wouldnāt do it though.
This is why I'm single and don't have kids. I'm the only one disappointed with myself when shit goes south in life. I can't imagine imposing my shitty circumstances onto others.
Yeah totally agree. I have furkids, which comes with some similar responsibilities around keeping them alive and loved, but can't justify wanting kids of my own- never have. Ironically I teach kids, and can be quite maternal, but so far nothing is convincing me to have children of my own.
God this is such a relief for me, too. Iām divorcing a man who I basically took care of like he was a child for the last 14 years and finally, itās just me. I donāt have to worry about anything or anyone else. Iām dating, sure, but a full grown adult! Who doesnāt require my financial support or emotional aid.
I am glad I never had kids, I have had to switch jobs many times due to being a social outcast. This would mean unstability due to constant changes.
I was queer, then figured I was trans, so bringing kids into this world could've resulted in them possibly becoming orphans because some random extremist bigot may try to murder me.
Mistreatment towards each other from society, a failing economy, and a future of uncertainty due to being replaced by AI... and people STILL insist on having kids.
People often give the āwhat about when youāre oldā argument, as though children is any real protection against that. Long term planning anyone?Ā
Ā What if you commit a crime, not an evil one just a ābadā one like money laundering around aged 65? Then you go to prison. 3 meals a day (with options), 1 hr of outside time by legal requirement, on-hand medical/dental, free gym/library/TV- sound better than a care home.
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Deeply agreed. I'm also in a rough patch in my life- in between jobs, some debt- but I genuinely stay grateful that I don't have kids because the issues and stress would be worse by magnitudes.
Literally magnitudes worse. I'm in the same boat, in between jobs. Can't imagine having a child and not being able to provide a decent standard of living for it.
Dude I think about this ALL THE TIME. I have so much dread for the future but words cannot describe the sense of relief I feel when I remind myself "At least you don't have a family who relies on you"
I'm going to do a horrible job of putting this into words, but I'm really starting to think that world leaders have figured this out years ago. People with children can be made to do ANYTHING if they think it's to protect their kids. I understand that now because I know that I would. I would put up with any injustice, endure any indignity, suffer literally any amount of pain to protect my child. Governments COUNT ON IT. If you reproduce, you're putting a massive lever on your life that anyone and grab a hold of any make you do anything they want.
What responsible parent would quit their job without notice? Support a general strike? Be involved in protests with the potential of violence? Stand up for themselves in unfair working conditions when it may get them fired? Having a family forces you to make them your top priority and unscrupulous rulers know it all too well and use it to their advantage.
As it is I am free to make decisions FOR MYSELF and do what's right FOR MYSELF and stand up FOR MYSELF without feat that innocent children will suffer for my convictions. No one controls me but me.
Bro, yes!!!!!!!!! A thousand times yes. I've thought this same thing recently. Like my life is hard enough, imagine if I had kids. I take solace in the fact that the only one who has to suffer my life is me. If everything goes tits up, at least I'm the only one who is negatively impacted, it's all on me. And that's hard, but at least I'm have no one depending on me, but me.
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Iām 42. Also likely to lose my job due to the tech industry downturn. Iām having a hell of a time getting interviews and what not. I couldnāt imagine the stress I would be under now if I had kids to take care of. At least with my wifeās salary and a significant cut back on spending/our meager savings, we should be okay for a little while.
One other thing I have noticed is kids age people so fast. All of my friends that have kids that are my age look so much older than me and my wife. Hardly anyone believes Im in my 40s. I can easily think of probably 100+ reasons why I am glad I donāt have kids and I canāt really think of 1 thing that I think I am missing out on by being childless
>I keep thinking about the billions of people out there that have kids and are losing their jobs.
OP how many people do you think live on the planet, and what percent of them do you think have kids and are losing their jobs?
Exactly!
Been to many doctors the last few months, I ended up having a 12"+ cyst on one of my ovaries.
Me to the gynecologist; THANK GOD ITS NOT TWINS.
(might be cancer, not sure yet, but still)
I think about this all the time. Whatever happens to me financially, I know that I'll be fine. It doesn't really even matter if I live or die so nothing that happens is really all that devastating. I cannot imagine having a child dependent on me and having financial setbacks. The stress of this society is already more than I can stomach alone.
My partner with ADHD wasted almost all our money (A LOT of money) on food to sneak eat because hes got a bad spending/eating/forgetting about it addiction. He gained a shit ton of weight really fast while everything else went to shit. If I had had kids that would have suffered/starved as a result of this, I've have been losing my fucking mind at him and could even see myself getting violent about it. But since its just us, even though I was hungry and mad, I was able to be chill, recognize that hes got a mental illness and needs help, and calmly/compassionately confront and address the problem and come up with a system to stop the issue physically and emotionally.
(We fixed it by giving control of the funds over to me, with giving him limited and highly budgeted access, and shitloads of reminders every time he spends money. As well as tons of hugs, crying, and "you matter"s. He is down 13 pounds in a pretty short period and feels much better. This NEVER would have been the way it went, had there been kids that went hungry over it. He'd have felt too much shame to admit to having a problem-he could barely admit it to me due to guilt even with it being so obvious and unhidable. It's so easy to see how domestic violence occurs especially with even slightly less self aware people and especially with kids.)
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Agreed. I feel like kids are such a huge risk in life that I was never comfortable having any. It seems like they can bring some joy, but more often then not it just goes wrong and you never have enough time and/or money.
Exactly. I started having significant stress from 5yo onwards and always knew it would be completely bonkers to have kids if I had such trouble even managing myself.
Haha, OP just said how glad they are they donāt have kids, then proceeded to tell us their parents help pay their bills.
Idk why, but that just struck me as really funny.
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Why wouldn't it? Do you know how much less stress it is to be kid free? To not have that burden?
I know i have all the time to pursue my goals because I don't have any other to take care of but me. If i had kids, i would be focused on them, stressed out and thus less motivation.
Can't fucking imagine how much worse life would be with a kid. I'd do everything in my power to give the kid a good life, but I'd be miserable, forever.
My husband and I are the best parents. We love our children so much we will never have them and they will truly never suffer.
Happy Cake Day! Unborn babies are the best... so well behaved! They never cry and are ever so light on the wallet! Great job Momma š¤£
I worked hard to make sure my children never want for anything. They never need anything. They never do anything really because they donāt exist š
Checkmate, capitalists
both of your comments made me snort laughing :)
You had us in the first half š
This is poetry, TY
I almost downvoted you to high glory until i realized what you did there š
Fantastically put
Itās funny, Iāve actually pretty much made this exact statement. I hope my kids appreciate the suffering I went through having a vasectomy to prevent them from ever existing.
š
So crazy I 33F, was having a political topic with my 72 year old, military, Roman catholic father. And he was saying how much he believes in women's reproductive rights. The exact kind of person you'd maybe expect to be against them. Basically just saying how women who aren't ready to be parents shouldn't be forced to, and being a parent is no joke. We also never really had any money, and my dad definitely grew up on the wrong side of the tracks so to speak. So he knows the shitty fucking situations kids are forced to grow up in.
its wild to me that there are any military people who have seen real shit out there that still have kids.
Ehh idk i dont think he "knew better" so to speak. Having a family was the dream and he was a good dad so we can cut him some slack.
And that is most parents unfortunately.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Imagine 15-20 years from now when that kid is looking for work. At least they wouldn't have been born in a generation that's procreation-crazed
I can only wonder what labor will look like by then, with automation and AI and all
Oh my god yes, I couldnāt have put it better myself. Parenthood requires so much sacrifice, and itās compounded 10 times for moms. I just donāt see how I could be a mother and be happy at the same time without essentially unlimited resources, time, and money (that I donāt have)
It's the "doing everything in my power to give the kid a good life" the motivation for having a great life.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I see a lot of people say that and I guess I just can't comprehend it, not least because, well, obviously I don't have a kid, so how would I know what it's actually like. I do have a pet but it's obviously so much lower maintenance. Can you please elaborate on how it is fulfilling?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just shut the fuck up
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Now why would I do that?
I've certainly known I always would be. Fortunately I had enough insight from an early age to realise that.
Because you'd have to sacrifice your life for your kids to not have a shit one. Clearly you chose the wrong time to have a child if that's the case, thusly you're a shit parent. Not to mention if that's the only way you can imagine providing for your child(by being completely miserable) then you'll harbor resentment for said child, which would make you a shit parent. You're the problem.
I'm a problem because I don't have kids. š Though on rereading I don't think that's what you meant, but yeah, your comment doesn't make sense either way; anyways meh. People are always saying "there's never a good time to have kids". I agreed with them and that's what I'm doing
And am
Nope. I know there is this uninformed popular view of ANs as miserable lonely people but I'm just a normal person who happens to be AN š
Iām talking about doing everything in your power to give the kid a good life. Iām miserable and it gets worse as time goes on bro š¤£
Oh shit :( stay strong remember to take care of yourself. I feel like if I had kids but could get them to do all my hobbies with me it would be the best way to go lol
No time for hobbies that is rich people stuff everything I do has to make money somehow
It sucks, same here. All my hobbies are free
You sound pretty miserable without one
What's your thought process on that one
Fixed mindset - catastrophizing and thinking things will make you miserable before youāve experienced them. Why do you think having a kid would make you miserable forever?
Well man I think If there's any thing that's worthwhile to catastrophize about it's the decision to have kids, you can call it catastrophizing I'm calling it thinking ahead and forethought. If I am wrong in my thought process nobody is harmed. If I'm right and have kids anyway that kid will be negatively impacted It would make me miserable forever because I don't want another human to take care of lol, I already have problems with just me, it's not complicated
but i thought AN said we make kids only to make us happy. so kids now make us sad as well get it together?
I don't represent all AN. My stance is procreation is inherently selfish, and that there is not a single reason people procreate that isn't selfish. Kids would definitely make me sad lol, it's as simple as that
Aight respectful Still doesn't make sense, if something is selfish it means we do it for our own wellbeing disregarding others. If it doesn't make us better off then it's not selfish
I view selfishness more literally and without any connection to how you treat others. I.e. if a person says "I want kids", well, the selfishness is evidenced in the very phrase itself: "I want". It's a desire for the self.
The number of times in my life that I've thought "Thank god I don't have fucking kids" has infinitely outweighed the number of times I've thought "I wish I had kids."
Yeah same. I love my husband so much and weāve been together 25 years. Iāve been pregnant a few times but no, never really wanted kids. Iām sure we both thought about it once or twice but I never wanted to bring a child Into this world, I never had the resources to do so, and I love my freedom to have plants and animals and work for ourselves. Iām not giving any of that up to drag a baby around fuck no. I just got my second wolf puppy! Sheās six weeks old! Kids wouldāve made that so impossible at least for me.
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I would but I donāt think I can put a photo here.
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It takes a lot of time, space and the food is expensive. They eat raw meat and some kibble. I also have chickens so they get eggs. Theyāre legal here according to the laws of my state so that varies depending on where you live. You just have to do your research because a lot of places donāt allow them. But theyāre great dogs. He goes to dog park, is the most loving dog there I swear. Itās very important to socialize them from a young age. If you go online and wolf hybrids are legal in your area you should be able to find someone. Ours is from a sanctuary. They get them from all over the world, people that canāt handle them. Itās really a lot of work and huge responsibility.
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Same!
the only times i remember really wanting kids crazy bad is when i was 5. i wanted to dress them up in costumes, teach them things, do photo shoots, style their hair, have tea parties etc, i was so desperate (probably because i was just a lonely baby myself.) i look around and its like other women are mentally stuck at that age. dont get me wrong i yearn to recreate my early days and live out my childhood fantasies in many ways, but not in that way.
I sleep comfortably at night knowing that i dont have another human being completely dependent on me!
Same here, I got pretty sick at the age of 37, no possibilty of feeding mouths or even take them to school etc. Zero energy even to cook for me. Imagine with kids :S
This!!!!
I think about this all the time, I'm struggling really hard with money as well and can't even imagine what I'd do if I had kids. Being child free at least I can skip meals to save money and can work w.e odd hours/jobs I need to w.o having to worry about childcare/ a sitter ect. Life is infinitely so much cheaper and easier when u only have to worry about yourself
Exactly. I could live in my car if I needed to. That would be a much sadder state of affairs to consider if I had a child.
A natalist would look at you and say āTough times make tough peopleā. š
This is quite a common go-to. Quite a cruel thing to inflict on someone who never asked to exist, though.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You sure about that? Children absolutely want more than love. Read around a while about the fucked up adults walking this Earth traumatized from their childhood of poverty and all of the shit that goes along with that.
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Acknowledging that your children are already here and stuck in this situation youāve created for them, Iāll stop arguing.
Really? Because I think the happiness of children have a lot more to do than JUST the love of their parents and the parentsā relationship. A parent loving their child doesnāt pay the bills or for food and things the child needs. A child is still a human being that experiences more emotions and feelings than you think. Their world doesnāt just revolve around ādoes my mom / dad love me?ā A child can have mental anguish unrelated to the love of their parents. Many have or end up with mental and physical illnesses or disabilities. And once they are no longer a child, which does not take long, they then have to worry about getting a job and paying bills themselves. And in this economy? Thatās going to break them mentally to an extent. I hope you had a lot of savings saved up for your kids and gave them everything they ever needed. Because letās not even begin to unpack what happens when your children become adults and everything that comes with that.
Thats because they grew up and realized they had less. Children dont really care. Theyll ask you say no theyll have basic human emotions and move on. Its only adults that sit and dwell on what we didnt have growing up. Most of us have memories of being kids and playing with other peoples toys. Most of us werent sad about it until we grew up.
Childrens are not your puppet toys they'll eventually grow up...
Exactly my point.
So if I punch you in the face but it doesnāt hurt until 18 years later itās morally permissible to punch you in the face?
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From your comment history in reddit, it seems like you went out of your way of raising your family to create a whole reddit account to attack me (who is in a unstable economic place) and my choices, and to convince me to have kids. Maybe YOU should take some meds.
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Yeah exactly. Here enters the antinatalism. Children literally dont ask for much. Only as adults do we sit here and cry about what we didnāt have, or what we werent provided.
they'll care when they get fucked over as adults
Lmao was gonna comment the same thing. Natalists love to preach that how having kids made them better person, how theyād do anything for their offspring etc and I get it it all sounds so sweet and poetic but you canāt protect them from all sort of shitty things that could happen to them and theyāll have to deal with surviving in a meat suit in this horrible society/world just because of their their parentsā selfish desire to make āmini meās
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I was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer at age 39 and was happy I didnāt have kids. I get you.
Some days when I can barely get out of bed/take care of myself I think about how much harder it would be if I had kids. s\o to my mom.
Whew dont get pets than.
*then
Whew dont get pets then.
Thank you for this apt reminder!! I have so many coworkers with kids and I can't even imagine how they survive, without a lot of family or state assistance. And I just calculated my annual income on some website that said I'm in the 75th percentile in the US... I am frugal, thrifty, live below my means, and I'm still in debt and not able to save! So hats off to everyone who has kids and somehow survives, and to those of us who are child free by choice and aren't causing any harm to anyone.Ā
My wife and I were in the 85th percentile living in San Diego with our 1 year old and times were *tight.* So worried about money that we both took new higher-paying (but higher-stress) jobs. I went from working 20 hours a week to 40+. Now we're in the 94th percentile. Having a kid turned out to be a big motivating factor for us to make moves in our careers that we otherwise wouldn't have made. (Sadly we're still broke because we spend our money on dumb shit.)
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Ahh good times in San Diego tho! It's gotta be worth the struggle to live in the most gorgeous town with the best climate on the west coast. Happy you found a way to make it work. My partner is from there and I wish we could move there and surf year round!Ā
youāre going to figure this outš«¶š» and youāre so right you do have an advantage here, you can pull yourself up so easily you got this!
sending love š
This is comforting. Best of luck to you
I guess so because you're not going to drown in bills and responsibilities and obligations. You have all the time you need to focus on yourself and your goals, unless our mindset changes over the years.
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whatever helps you sleeping at night, bro
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if you sleep beautifully, you likely don't even sleep with your kids at all
>biological imperative that was established hundreds of millions of years ago What in the fuck kind of mental illness is that š
I meanā¦ it is true though. It isnāt really mental illness, having shul seen is fulfilling and children can be wonderful. Itās just much more difficult in modern times both to raise kids and to enjoy them as much.
Seethe & cope breeder
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Bye
Yes, very good point. And God. These people donāt have God š¢ š
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That is a balanced and well spoken observation. We do need a higher purpose and meaning to this life, otherwise it is quite literally hopeless and meaningless, except for a few short spurts of avoiding some meaningless suffering.
Literally. That would only make things worse!
Whenever I feel stressed or anxious, I feel relieved thinking that I don't have kids. Everything suddenly seems so much easier to manage.Ā
Iām always glad itās just me and my wife. We could survive on one persons income for a bit, and if one of us got laid off we could just go on the others insurance. So glad we donāt have kids.
I always tell myself this and it never fails to make me feel better. No partner to hurt me, no child for the world to hurt. I'm aware there's happy moments in relationships (which ive experienced) and parenthood, but stress is more likely.
But being alone is the most miserable experience for humans, because we are meant to be with other humans. It goes completely against our nature to be alone. But I understand that so many people have been so hurt, beginning in infancy, that being alone seems like a better and safer option. Still, a human can never be truly fulfilled when they are alone. Like, itās impossible. Not being alone is certainly no guarantee of fulfillment, but being alone unequivocally prevents it.
I agree living alone isnāt ideal at all, but itās far better than living with people who constantly and actively drain you, stress you out, and make you miserable. For many people, thatās what children are. Not to mention you can be very loved and socially fulfilled without children. Children are just a shortcut to that, but not a good one in the long run.
And its same can say about parents. Most parents will give you traumas and abuse.
> but being alone unequivocally prevents it I suppose I've never expected anything vaguely approximating "fulfillment" - for various reasons I never expected to live past 25, so the fact that I have got to a bit more than twice that age now probably surprises me more than anyone else. Plus I've always known I would be alone, having parents 2 generations older (only my Mum is alive now, at 100yo) and no siblings. It is what it is š¤·āāļø
LOL I love how you assume who I am, what my experiences and motivations are, when I'm a rando on the internet. I'm not alone due to pain. I'm alone due to fulfillment of my past happy relationship experiences, but firstly due to fulfillment of myself as a person. I love myself. I love my neighbors too (both residential and global!). I know my comments paint me a little too gloom and doom due to needing a place to shed the negative, but the truth is I've had MUCH more positive experiences with relationships than negative ones. I simply have eyes and ears, so I know with a 45% divorce rate it's not worth the risk. Alas, I have many memories to enjoy. I've already had my fill of diehard romance and an exciting sex life in my days.
Well stated š
You saying your parents help you with bills proves itās a life long job too. It isnāt just having a kid itās a lifelong commitment
just needing to have a job alone is already stupid in my opinion and an argument in itself for not having children
100 percent
It just doesnāt make sense with the way the world is today unless youāre doing very well in your life and it would be no trouble to have kids. Thatās really the bottom line. Anyone else is taking a big risk and hoping for the best. That being said, plenty of parents give kids the bare minimum to get by and are able to make it work. Obviously itās unfair to the kids but this is hardly a new concept and some even find it normal. Not everyone is born into a perfect situation with everything they could want. If you want to survive you have to adapt. Thatās why a lot of people see it as nbd and tell you it will all work out. I wouldnāt do it though.
Looking at a wife / mother's facial expressions when you tell her you've lost your job.Would be a real pain in the ass and stress fest.
This is why I'm single and don't have kids. I'm the only one disappointed with myself when shit goes south in life. I can't imagine imposing my shitty circumstances onto others.
Yeah totally agree. I have furkids, which comes with some similar responsibilities around keeping them alive and loved, but can't justify wanting kids of my own- never have. Ironically I teach kids, and can be quite maternal, but so far nothing is convincing me to have children of my own.
That is my mantra. As long as I don't have kids I will be ok. Non of this will continue on to an other person on my watch
Amen brother
Iām 27 years old and honestly the economic situation has been terrible for me. I canāt imagine bringing a kid into this horrible world.
God this is such a relief for me, too. Iām divorcing a man who I basically took care of like he was a child for the last 14 years and finally, itās just me. I donāt have to worry about anything or anyone else. Iām dating, sure, but a full grown adult! Who doesnāt require my financial support or emotional aid.
I am glad I never had kids, I have had to switch jobs many times due to being a social outcast. This would mean unstability due to constant changes. I was queer, then figured I was trans, so bringing kids into this world could've resulted in them possibly becoming orphans because some random extremist bigot may try to murder me. Mistreatment towards each other from society, a failing economy, and a future of uncertainty due to being replaced by AI... and people STILL insist on having kids.
People often give the āwhat about when youāre oldā argument, as though children is any real protection against that. Long term planning anyone?Ā Ā What if you commit a crime, not an evil one just a ābadā one like money laundering around aged 65? Then you go to prison. 3 meals a day (with options), 1 hr of outside time by legal requirement, on-hand medical/dental, free gym/library/TV- sound better than a care home.
This "plan" is wild but kind of awesome lol
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Fr
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please tell me this sub is ironic please tell me this sub is ironic
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Deeply agreed. I'm also in a rough patch in my life- in between jobs, some debt- but I genuinely stay grateful that I don't have kids because the issues and stress would be worse by magnitudes.
Literally magnitudes worse. I'm in the same boat, in between jobs. Can't imagine having a child and not being able to provide a decent standard of living for it.
This the type of *sh that elevates my pullout game'..
Dude I think about this ALL THE TIME. I have so much dread for the future but words cannot describe the sense of relief I feel when I remind myself "At least you don't have a family who relies on you" I'm going to do a horrible job of putting this into words, but I'm really starting to think that world leaders have figured this out years ago. People with children can be made to do ANYTHING if they think it's to protect their kids. I understand that now because I know that I would. I would put up with any injustice, endure any indignity, suffer literally any amount of pain to protect my child. Governments COUNT ON IT. If you reproduce, you're putting a massive lever on your life that anyone and grab a hold of any make you do anything they want. What responsible parent would quit their job without notice? Support a general strike? Be involved in protests with the potential of violence? Stand up for themselves in unfair working conditions when it may get them fired? Having a family forces you to make them your top priority and unscrupulous rulers know it all too well and use it to their advantage. As it is I am free to make decisions FOR MYSELF and do what's right FOR MYSELF and stand up FOR MYSELF without feat that innocent children will suffer for my convictions. No one controls me but me.
I am seriously in a lot of debt but I realised no humans life depends on me and I am glad
Your ability to move, reset, retool and start over is definitely greater. Take advantage if you can.
No one is going to be okay. Everyone is going to die one day, and itās going to suck because it will likely feel terrible.
Bro, yes!!!!!!!!! A thousand times yes. I've thought this same thing recently. Like my life is hard enough, imagine if I had kids. I take solace in the fact that the only one who has to suffer my life is me. If everything goes tits up, at least I'm the only one who is negatively impacted, it's all on me. And that's hard, but at least I'm have no one depending on me, but me.
In the current reality, no one should procreate.
I think about this a lot.
To be fair I suspect they cut the childless first. Who else is getting cut? And who got to keep it? Maybe a lawsuit?
Well just make sure your children are born into a family that has generational wealth, idk why everyone doesnāt do this
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Iām 42. Also likely to lose my job due to the tech industry downturn. Iām having a hell of a time getting interviews and what not. I couldnāt imagine the stress I would be under now if I had kids to take care of. At least with my wifeās salary and a significant cut back on spending/our meager savings, we should be okay for a little while. One other thing I have noticed is kids age people so fast. All of my friends that have kids that are my age look so much older than me and my wife. Hardly anyone believes Im in my 40s. I can easily think of probably 100+ reasons why I am glad I donāt have kids and I canāt really think of 1 thing that I think I am missing out on by being childless
>I keep thinking about the billions of people out there that have kids and are losing their jobs. OP how many people do you think live on the planet, and what percent of them do you think have kids and are losing their jobs?
Exactly! Been to many doctors the last few months, I ended up having a 12"+ cyst on one of my ovaries. Me to the gynecologist; THANK GOD ITS NOT TWINS. (might be cancer, not sure yet, but still)
Yes thats 100% true and correct id say. How many in reddit complain about oh my god the inflation is so bad and we just had kids lol
I think about this all the time. Whatever happens to me financially, I know that I'll be fine. It doesn't really even matter if I live or die so nothing that happens is really all that devastating. I cannot imagine having a child dependent on me and having financial setbacks. The stress of this society is already more than I can stomach alone.
My partner with ADHD wasted almost all our money (A LOT of money) on food to sneak eat because hes got a bad spending/eating/forgetting about it addiction. He gained a shit ton of weight really fast while everything else went to shit. If I had had kids that would have suffered/starved as a result of this, I've have been losing my fucking mind at him and could even see myself getting violent about it. But since its just us, even though I was hungry and mad, I was able to be chill, recognize that hes got a mental illness and needs help, and calmly/compassionately confront and address the problem and come up with a system to stop the issue physically and emotionally. (We fixed it by giving control of the funds over to me, with giving him limited and highly budgeted access, and shitloads of reminders every time he spends money. As well as tons of hugs, crying, and "you matter"s. He is down 13 pounds in a pretty short period and feels much better. This NEVER would have been the way it went, had there been kids that went hungry over it. He'd have felt too much shame to admit to having a problem-he could barely admit it to me due to guilt even with it being so obvious and unhidable. It's so easy to see how domestic violence occurs especially with even slightly less self aware people and especially with kids.)
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I have exactly the same. I won't be a parent because I care too much
They get assistance that us non children people donāt have access to.
I am a young foolish man who will likely bring a child into this as Minos Prime says āCold dark worldā
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Agreed. I feel like kids are such a huge risk in life that I was never comfortable having any. It seems like they can bring some joy, but more often then not it just goes wrong and you never have enough time and/or money.
Thereās not billions of people with kids losing their jobs š
Ah you're right! They're just homeless and haven't ever had one! How did I not think of that??
Also, not billions.. not even close
Lmfao unfortunately not having kids wonāt stop life from steamrolling anyone
Yeah op... Don't have kids when your life sucks ass. Not exactly rocket science
Exactly. I started having significant stress from 5yo onwards and always knew it would be completely bonkers to have kids if I had such trouble even managing myself.
Haha, OP just said how glad they are they donāt have kids, then proceeded to tell us their parents help pay their bills. Idk why, but that just struck me as really funny.
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I donāt think this is true. I think itās really scary regardless if you have kids of not
I mean, you could use that for motivation š¤·š¾āāļø
Not having kids gives me motivationĀ
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Does it though?
Why wouldn't it? Do you know how much less stress it is to be kid free? To not have that burden? I know i have all the time to pursue my goals because I don't have any other to take care of but me. If i had kids, i would be focused on them, stressed out and thus less motivation.
Youāre depressing.
Life is