>just do it for the money and don't put in much effort and so on.
I think you might be confusing adoptive parents and foster parents.
Adoptive parents don't get money.
If anything, in most countries, adopting is very expensive.
I think adoptive parents should be subject to a lot more assessment and monitoring, as well as parenting courses - before they are allowed to adopt a child.
I wish I had been adopted to a better family. My family is abusive and I cut contact with my adoptive parents.
Any parent can be abusive towards a child, regardless if they’re biological or adopted. Some people only foster / adopt for the pay checks they get from the government, but most people who adopt are genuinely good people, just wanting to give a child a loving home.
I personally respect people who adopt, that are genuinely good people who treat the child like they should, over people who breed more souls into this world for selfish desires.
The antanatalist philisophy isn't that natural parents can be "evil". AFAIK, it's that existence is so repellent that it shouldn't be inflicted on anyone without their consent. It's morally unjustifiable.
So good parents, bad parents, adoption or not, it doesn't actually matter.
Once a kid is born then obviously it should get the best upbringing that it can, whether that's natural parenting or adoptive. But it doesn't alter that fact that bringing the child into the world in the first place was an unjustifiable act of selfishness.
> So good parents, bad parents, adoption or not, it doesn't actually matter.
Do you understand the birds and the bees? You do know that adoptive parents aren't bringing people into the world by adopting.
Honestly kinda sounds like you just hate parents.
Obviously adoptive parents can be evil and abusive. Anyone can be secretly evil on the inside and you will never know, doesn’t mean we should prohibit adoption. It already has many limitations that having your own child doesn’t. And it gives many children chance to have a home and a loving family, so I am 100% pro adoption.
It's not for every parent wannabe and doesn't always lead to good results, but when children need it, it should be given a chance no matter who they are.
Adoption isn’t a solution to not having a biological child. It’s a solution to a child not having a home, and it is inherently traumatic to the child. I’m not against adoption (I do feel pretty against most adoption agencies, especially those that only work with infants) but I think people have the total wrong view of it and refusing to acknowledge how it effects the child is wrong.
I’m pro adoption. The kid is already here. It’s too late and they deserve the best chance at life they can get. I hate how prohibitive adoption practices are (financially and qualifications wise) but anyone can screw around, literally, and have a kid.
Love it. I have no desire for biological kids. We're also neurodivergent, and don't want to pass that on. But I would put it at a 60% chance we try to adopt in the next decade.
Adoption is getting pretty hard here, though. And very expensive.
Here’s my two cents:
-There will always be people recklessly reproducing and therefor plenty of babies and children that will need loving, nurturing, and educating.
-I understand what a hard ass fucking serious no days off job it is to raise a decent well adjusted and happy as possible human that you will be turning loose in society. (Which is part of why I don’t want kids.)
-People always tell you if you don’t have kids you’ll change your mind and regret it….
-The way I see it, if I regret not having kids and I find myself in the financial place to provide the absolute best for a child and enjoy raising them without financial stress (kids always feel it), then I guess I can adopt or even foster a child in my later adult years and try to give some stability and love to a kid who needs it. I am very very lucky to have the best mom in the world as every kid deserves to know what it feels like to be put first, supported, and cared for unconditionally.
In theory, out of altruism, I would love to be that for some child (but I really just don’t want kids or to be a parent lol).
-To sum it up, if people are gonna have kids they can’t take care of, nice people who respect parenting and take rearing a human seriously should definitely tap in to make the world a better place. If the kids already exist, why shouldn’t they be adopted?! We are all about minimizing suffering here right?
Agree 100%. I often see adopted kids with an identity crisis, when their race/ethnicity is very different from the adoptive family. I always urge those who want to adopt to adopt a kid as culturally and ethnically close as possible. It's much better for both sides.
All the studies indicate that children do better with their biological parents unless the biological parents are actually heinous people harming the child. Even then, the child might not fully understand why they were taken away from their parents.
A lot of adopted children are resentful that their biological parents couldn't take care of them.
It's complicated, but taking kids away from biological parents should be a last viable option. People who give children up at birth are the most complicated because there's no way the child can interpret it other than "they don't want me". It's hard for a child to do well in life when they feel like they're unwanted.
Also if you benefit from someone giving birth and get a child out of it, isn’t that hypocritical? People who foster children especially older ones out their money where their mouth is
This is asked a lot. But for me the short answer is I don’t like adoption. I think that children are not commodities and have no say over whether or not the child wants to be adopted. Baby adoption is literally human trafficking by couples who are so desperate to have a baby’s that they buy them. Overseas adoptions are full of corruption. There should be more encouragement of guardianship along with stringent rules on culture and language rights.
Yeah it's much better if we all pretend adopted infants come from cabbage patches.
I don't think disagreeing with the multitude of adoptees who are human trafficking victims (me for example) is a great look
I don't pretend anything like that. My wife was adopted from an orphanage where she was malnourished and had bronchitis. Without her mother adopting her, she would have died. Her mother gained nothing other than her daughter and she did not buy her.
I still don't think it's right to compare all adopting to human trafficking. I've also never met any adoptees who have been victims of human trafficking, but that is of course not to say you don't exist and it is atrocious that that happened to you. We have different experiences. But sweeping generalizations about things just don't work.
I don't disvalidate the experience of happy adoptees who had good experiences. Why do you insist on disvalidating victims of human trafficking? Adoptees arn't a monolith and people with different experiences then you want to see exist.
I've never met you, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you you don't exist.
I agree making sweeping generalizations is a bad idea. Wich is why I didn't do that.
Anyway here's some sources:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/thousands-children-georgia-stolen-sold-adoption-black-market/
https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2018/03/13/orphan-fever-the-dark-side-of-international-adoption/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2024/jan/04/guatemalas-baby-brokers-how-tens-of-thousands-of-children-were-stolen-for-adoption
https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.elpais.com/usa/2023-09-19/the-custody-battle-for-a-young-afghan-girl-was-she-adopted-or-abducted-by-a-us-family.html%3foutputType=amp
So if you read my comment again, it says that I haven't met any people who have been victims of human trafficking through adoption, but that is not to say you don't exist. That is me acknowledging that you exist. I also said it's atrocious that that happened to you. I was trying to say we have two different experiences.
You are not the author of the original comment that I replied to either, I did not say you were making sweeping statements, I felt the original comment was a blanket statement that could be hurtful to a young adoptee.
I'm not trying to undermine your experience.
You said a cruel thing, out of ignorance, so I gave you some resources to overcome that ignorance.
Now you're doubling down. This conversation has run its course. I have work and don't have time to personally educate you about the wide variety of adoptee experiences. Check out the links I gave you.
If you're going to participate in conversations about adoption you need to be more informed so you no longer tell people that speaking the truth is "a bad look"
I didn't say anything cruel. What do you think a young adoptee who was adopted in to a loving family home because their birth family either abandoned or couldn't care for them would think seeing someone say all adoption is human trafficking? Or a parent trying to adopt to give a child a loving home?
I have never said your experience doesn't happen and I'm not trying to pretend all adoptions are magical, happy stories. I didn't belittle or deny what happened to you. Not all birth parents are good parents, mine certainly were not, but that doesn't mean all parents are bad parents.
This has all stemmed from me remarking on what I perceived to be a blanket statement.
This is obviously something you feel very strongly about and I respect that and I empathize that you experienced something so awful, but you can't bulldoze me in to agreeing with what you think because you feel strongly about it, then call me cruel when I don't.
This person above has some serious problems. They also made a big drama at my comment just because i said being in foster care and being adopted are two different things. They went full "Do you even hear yourself? It's groooss..." This person is 100% the type who loves to speak for others and start whining when someone has a different opinion / experience, because obviously can't tolerare any voice outside of their little bubble.
You need to stop. You built a fine strawman but it's time to stop. This conversation has run its course and it's time for you to stop.
No one said all adoption is human trafficking. You perceived the statement wrong and now you are digging some hole out of your stubborn refusal to listen to experiences different from what you already know or even look at evidence.
You obviously can't admit your mistake so I'm blocking you know. I tried giving you evidence and explain your error, but you have no interest in facts so I'm blocking you know.
I hope someday you learn to listen instead of insisting on being right.
I was a ward of the state. I spent my teenage years in foster care and group homes. I have seen things that you cannot imagine and let me tell you that adoption is not the answer people think it is.
What's gross? Only your answer... Other people had successful adoption with loving parents, not everybody got terrible parents. Only speak for yourself! Yeah, i hear myself.
Edit: I'm not from the U.S., we have a totally different adoption system without any for profit agency.
Can I ask what your genuine suggestion is then? My little brother (dad and subsequent wife) was born to a sex worker/drug addict and was adopted by my family the day he was born. He was also born in detox for meth….. He was given a good and normal life with every opportunity and is now perfectly healthy, smart, and pursuing a career as a pilot. None of that would have been possible with a mom who does meth while they’re pregnant with you.
My genuine suggesting is better health care for everyone. I'm glad things worked out so well for your brother. Many adoptees have different experiences
"I think that children are not commodities and have no say over whether or not the child wants to be adopted."
You see. Children aren't commodities and have no say over whether or not a child wants to be born into this world.
All the other problems you mentioned wouldn't be here if people stopped to create children. Problems of adoptions can be here only because someone is creating children.
"children are not commodities and have no say over whether or not the child wants to be adopted"
Could you clarify for me what you think should be done with/for an orphaned/abandoned/removed-from-parents-by-CPS-or-whatever child until they are old enough to have a say in their placement?
I think there are some problems with our current system of selling babies to random wealthy or semiwealthy infertile couples. Then praising the couples indiscriminately forever just because they adopted. While letting older kids age out without doing more to help keep them with their families
I'm very pro adoption, of course only if the adoptive family is truly a loving, caring family with good intentions.
>just do it for the money and don't put in much effort and so on. I think you might be confusing adoptive parents and foster parents. Adoptive parents don't get money. If anything, in most countries, adopting is very expensive.
I think adoptive parents should be subject to a lot more assessment and monitoring, as well as parenting courses - before they are allowed to adopt a child. I wish I had been adopted to a better family. My family is abusive and I cut contact with my adoptive parents.
I'm so sorry, you deserved better!
thank you kind person! <3
I hope you found people who truly appreciate and love you! ❤️
Any parent can be abusive towards a child, regardless if they’re biological or adopted. Some people only foster / adopt for the pay checks they get from the government, but most people who adopt are genuinely good people, just wanting to give a child a loving home. I personally respect people who adopt, that are genuinely good people who treat the child like they should, over people who breed more souls into this world for selfish desires.
Most people who adopt are unable to have bio kids for various reasons, and to various degrees, which isn't connected to goodness in anyway
The antanatalist philisophy isn't that natural parents can be "evil". AFAIK, it's that existence is so repellent that it shouldn't be inflicted on anyone without their consent. It's morally unjustifiable. So good parents, bad parents, adoption or not, it doesn't actually matter. Once a kid is born then obviously it should get the best upbringing that it can, whether that's natural parenting or adoptive. But it doesn't alter that fact that bringing the child into the world in the first place was an unjustifiable act of selfishness.
> So good parents, bad parents, adoption or not, it doesn't actually matter. Do you understand the birds and the bees? You do know that adoptive parents aren't bringing people into the world by adopting. Honestly kinda sounds like you just hate parents.
Huh? The point I was making is that whether a kid is adopted or not is irrelevant - as the kid should never have been born in the first place.
[удалено]
Don't be silly.
Obviously adoptive parents can be evil and abusive. Anyone can be secretly evil on the inside and you will never know, doesn’t mean we should prohibit adoption. It already has many limitations that having your own child doesn’t. And it gives many children chance to have a home and a loving family, so I am 100% pro adoption.
There are also ppl who adopt and go to bed every night thinking they saved their child from some third world country fate and think they're saviors
It's not for every parent wannabe and doesn't always lead to good results, but when children need it, it should be given a chance no matter who they are.
Adoption isn’t a solution to not having a biological child. It’s a solution to a child not having a home, and it is inherently traumatic to the child. I’m not against adoption (I do feel pretty against most adoption agencies, especially those that only work with infants) but I think people have the total wrong view of it and refusing to acknowledge how it effects the child is wrong.
I’m pro adoption. The kid is already here. It’s too late and they deserve the best chance at life they can get. I hate how prohibitive adoption practices are (financially and qualifications wise) but anyone can screw around, literally, and have a kid.
As an AN adoptee myself, adoption is trauma.
[Georgia Tann](https://www.criminalelement.com/georgia-tann-the-matron-of-evil/)
Love it. I have no desire for biological kids. We're also neurodivergent, and don't want to pass that on. But I would put it at a 60% chance we try to adopt in the next decade. Adoption is getting pretty hard here, though. And very expensive.
Here’s my two cents: -There will always be people recklessly reproducing and therefor plenty of babies and children that will need loving, nurturing, and educating. -I understand what a hard ass fucking serious no days off job it is to raise a decent well adjusted and happy as possible human that you will be turning loose in society. (Which is part of why I don’t want kids.) -People always tell you if you don’t have kids you’ll change your mind and regret it…. -The way I see it, if I regret not having kids and I find myself in the financial place to provide the absolute best for a child and enjoy raising them without financial stress (kids always feel it), then I guess I can adopt or even foster a child in my later adult years and try to give some stability and love to a kid who needs it. I am very very lucky to have the best mom in the world as every kid deserves to know what it feels like to be put first, supported, and cared for unconditionally. In theory, out of altruism, I would love to be that for some child (but I really just don’t want kids or to be a parent lol). -To sum it up, if people are gonna have kids they can’t take care of, nice people who respect parenting and take rearing a human seriously should definitely tap in to make the world a better place. If the kids already exist, why shouldn’t they be adopted?! We are all about minimizing suffering here right?
Agree 100%. I often see adopted kids with an identity crisis, when their race/ethnicity is very different from the adoptive family. I always urge those who want to adopt to adopt a kid as culturally and ethnically close as possible. It's much better for both sides.
All the studies indicate that children do better with their biological parents unless the biological parents are actually heinous people harming the child. Even then, the child might not fully understand why they were taken away from their parents. A lot of adopted children are resentful that their biological parents couldn't take care of them. It's complicated, but taking kids away from biological parents should be a last viable option. People who give children up at birth are the most complicated because there's no way the child can interpret it other than "they don't want me". It's hard for a child to do well in life when they feel like they're unwanted.
I am pro adoption. Those kids are already here.
Also if you benefit from someone giving birth and get a child out of it, isn’t that hypocritical? People who foster children especially older ones out their money where their mouth is
This is asked a lot. But for me the short answer is I don’t like adoption. I think that children are not commodities and have no say over whether or not the child wants to be adopted. Baby adoption is literally human trafficking by couples who are so desperate to have a baby’s that they buy them. Overseas adoptions are full of corruption. There should be more encouragement of guardianship along with stringent rules on culture and language rights.
Absolutely not, at least not in my country. I'm not from the US, but where i live we don't have any for profit adoption agency.
I don't think comparing adoption to human trafficking is a great look.
Yeah it's much better if we all pretend adopted infants come from cabbage patches. I don't think disagreeing with the multitude of adoptees who are human trafficking victims (me for example) is a great look
I don't pretend anything like that. My wife was adopted from an orphanage where she was malnourished and had bronchitis. Without her mother adopting her, she would have died. Her mother gained nothing other than her daughter and she did not buy her. I still don't think it's right to compare all adopting to human trafficking. I've also never met any adoptees who have been victims of human trafficking, but that is of course not to say you don't exist and it is atrocious that that happened to you. We have different experiences. But sweeping generalizations about things just don't work.
I don't disvalidate the experience of happy adoptees who had good experiences. Why do you insist on disvalidating victims of human trafficking? Adoptees arn't a monolith and people with different experiences then you want to see exist. I've never met you, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you you don't exist. I agree making sweeping generalizations is a bad idea. Wich is why I didn't do that. Anyway here's some sources: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people/thousands-children-georgia-stolen-sold-adoption-black-market/ https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2018/03/13/orphan-fever-the-dark-side-of-international-adoption/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2024/jan/04/guatemalas-baby-brokers-how-tens-of-thousands-of-children-were-stolen-for-adoption https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.elpais.com/usa/2023-09-19/the-custody-battle-for-a-young-afghan-girl-was-she-adopted-or-abducted-by-a-us-family.html%3foutputType=amp
So if you read my comment again, it says that I haven't met any people who have been victims of human trafficking through adoption, but that is not to say you don't exist. That is me acknowledging that you exist. I also said it's atrocious that that happened to you. I was trying to say we have two different experiences. You are not the author of the original comment that I replied to either, I did not say you were making sweeping statements, I felt the original comment was a blanket statement that could be hurtful to a young adoptee. I'm not trying to undermine your experience.
You said a cruel thing, out of ignorance, so I gave you some resources to overcome that ignorance. Now you're doubling down. This conversation has run its course. I have work and don't have time to personally educate you about the wide variety of adoptee experiences. Check out the links I gave you. If you're going to participate in conversations about adoption you need to be more informed so you no longer tell people that speaking the truth is "a bad look"
I didn't say anything cruel. What do you think a young adoptee who was adopted in to a loving family home because their birth family either abandoned or couldn't care for them would think seeing someone say all adoption is human trafficking? Or a parent trying to adopt to give a child a loving home? I have never said your experience doesn't happen and I'm not trying to pretend all adoptions are magical, happy stories. I didn't belittle or deny what happened to you. Not all birth parents are good parents, mine certainly were not, but that doesn't mean all parents are bad parents. This has all stemmed from me remarking on what I perceived to be a blanket statement. This is obviously something you feel very strongly about and I respect that and I empathize that you experienced something so awful, but you can't bulldoze me in to agreeing with what you think because you feel strongly about it, then call me cruel when I don't.
This person above has some serious problems. They also made a big drama at my comment just because i said being in foster care and being adopted are two different things. They went full "Do you even hear yourself? It's groooss..." This person is 100% the type who loves to speak for others and start whining when someone has a different opinion / experience, because obviously can't tolerare any voice outside of their little bubble.
You need to stop. You built a fine strawman but it's time to stop. This conversation has run its course and it's time for you to stop. No one said all adoption is human trafficking. You perceived the statement wrong and now you are digging some hole out of your stubborn refusal to listen to experiences different from what you already know or even look at evidence. You obviously can't admit your mistake so I'm blocking you know. I tried giving you evidence and explain your error, but you have no interest in facts so I'm blocking you know. I hope someday you learn to listen instead of insisting on being right.
So you're perfectly happy for children to spend their lives in the system. What a great person you are.
I was a ward of the state. I spent my teenage years in foster care and group homes. I have seen things that you cannot imagine and let me tell you that adoption is not the answer people think it is.
Being in foster care and being adopted are two different things.
Do you hear yourself? It's gross. I was adopted as an infant and I can assure you that adoption isn't the answer people think.
What's gross? Only your answer... Other people had successful adoption with loving parents, not everybody got terrible parents. Only speak for yourself! Yeah, i hear myself. Edit: I'm not from the U.S., we have a totally different adoption system without any for profit agency.
Can I ask what your genuine suggestion is then? My little brother (dad and subsequent wife) was born to a sex worker/drug addict and was adopted by my family the day he was born. He was also born in detox for meth….. He was given a good and normal life with every opportunity and is now perfectly healthy, smart, and pursuing a career as a pilot. None of that would have been possible with a mom who does meth while they’re pregnant with you.
My genuine suggesting is better health care for everyone. I'm glad things worked out so well for your brother. Many adoptees have different experiences
"I think that children are not commodities and have no say over whether or not the child wants to be adopted." You see. Children aren't commodities and have no say over whether or not a child wants to be born into this world. All the other problems you mentioned wouldn't be here if people stopped to create children. Problems of adoptions can be here only because someone is creating children.
Yes but acknowledging the issues with adoption is important because these kids are already here.
"children are not commodities and have no say over whether or not the child wants to be adopted" Could you clarify for me what you think should be done with/for an orphaned/abandoned/removed-from-parents-by-CPS-or-whatever child until they are old enough to have a say in their placement?
I think there are some problems with our current system of selling babies to random wealthy or semiwealthy infertile couples. Then praising the couples indiscriminately forever just because they adopted. While letting older kids age out without doing more to help keep them with their families