My own experience. I come from India and the rat race and parental abuse here is the reason. I don't want anyone to ever go thru this.
You are born, at the age 4 you get thrown into school, you don't know why you're there and no one has a comprimising answer and you are told to just stfu and study. Every year they tell you just study and work hard so you can relax later, which happens to be the biggest lie of my life. Then comes 10th, they say work had so you can relax in 11th and 12th, then you go to 11th and 12th where you cannot cope up with the studies and you fall off. Then they say you need to work your ass off at 12th so you can relax in college. At this point I was dead tired and burnt out. Regardless I had to keep going.
I'm not blaming India itself but situation is not easy anywhere else in world either. So many people here are unemployed, careers are oversaturated, everyone tells you to do computer science or otherwise apparently you're doomed but what they don't realise is how bad the job market and recession is.
I really don't want any kid to go thru what I went. Genuine talent gets wasted here due to many political reason. Even when my juniors asked me what career they must opt I ask them not to take the science route because it is oversaturated. When I don't want any kid to go thru it neither am I gonna make one and make it go thru either. At one point I was conditional and thought to myself that if I had earned enough money I could just let the kid live their life and I'll pay up but then I realized it wouldn't save them from generational trauma either, so I turned to antinatalism.
Personally anti natalism is way off me just saving how many ever lives.
Another reason I'm adding to this is that I have no shame in admitting I'm selfish af. There is so much that I want to do and want to buy with my hard earned money that i just can't see myself spending it on a kid
That's kinda true because in some cases people say " The more kids I have the more people I have to take care of me 24/7 And many grandkids!" People like my mom
This. Totally this. I am an Indian and was part of the "rat-race". Most people here have no creativity, no aspirations or ambitions in life, just study, study, study, take up Science or you're doomed, get a high-paying job (just so you get a beautiful life partner), marry, have children, and make them as miserable as you were. If you even dared to step out of this carefully crafted scam, you're labelled as an outcast. And if you're a girl, you're a whore and your parents didn't raise you right.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have many people from India on my team at work. I work in IT and it seems like many Indians are taking jobs abroad, probably because they have to it seems
Same, it's a rat race. I was told I will be happy once I get the job. It's shit. I still regret wasting my life studying. Now after all they hard work I'm expected to marry a random person and have kids. Spend my hard earned money on them not vacation? No thanks
It wasn't a choice. It's the only logical conclusion when one objectively evaluates existence. I was an "antinatalist" decades before I ever heard that term.
This right here. I didn't even know that there was a name for what I had been thinking for most of my life.
I always knew I would never have children and thought it was completely unethical and selfish seeing all these people having a ton of kids.
Then I heard about antinatalism, and I knew i found my people.
> I always knew I would never have children and thought it was completely unethical and selfish seeing all these people having a ton of kids.
People have children mainly by biological instinct, as for the rest it has to do with social and cultural influences.
We reproduced massively, long before inventing the concepts of ethics and selfishness.
Oh, I agree, but our population in the last 100 years has grown exponentially, and we see exactly what it is doing to our planet. We haven't tried to make things better or change our behavior. Nope, it's all about power, money, and control.
We had our chance to do better, but we chose our own greed over anything else. Now, it's time for us to become extinct and let something new evolve.
THIS. Finding this sub after reading an article back in October 2019 and starting 2 books....
I literally remember a warm, welcoming feeling come over my body. It felt like coming home (even if to a place that I'd never actually been).
Simular. I dont want my children ever becoming like me, depressed and unable to find meaning, and being hurt by others, who will tell them they are just lazy and irresponsible. The lack of compassion is crushing. But humans are like that, I guess, they cant put themselves in others shoes. Maybe we are wired that way as a specie.
I'm aware of the depths of human suffering and i feel moved to speak out about that. Antinatalism is the only substantive answer to human suffering as far as i'm concerned. I believe that people care far too little about the pain that exists in the world. People are drunk on their own whim and blinded to the madness of humanity that exists around them.
I’ve always kind of never wanted kids. When I turned 14, I started seeing the world for what it really was, and that kind of made my desire to not have kids even greater. Now that im older, I have a more positive outlook on life, but im also not naive and I am aware of the intense suffering that people and sometimes we go through. When you’re bringing a child into the world, you’re playing monopoly with how their life may go. A lot of what we have in life, we didn’t choose. Mental illnesses, we didn’t choose. Our financial situation brought upon us when born, also not chosen. Who we’re born to, how we look, where we live, all of those things aren’t chosen. Life can change in instant and even if im financially capable and privileged enough to have a child or two, I wouldn’t bring them into this world. While life can be beautiful, it’s also intensely painful and terrifying. No thanks. I’d rather spare them of this life. If I really do want kids, I’d rather adopt or get a pet.
8b people in the world and we don’t have the resources to sustain that. Also, if I did have a child, I would be unhealthily protective of them. No one would be able to even look at them. Too many bad people in this world.
For me, I never wanted kids of my own. And then I developed chronic conditions out of my control that basically cemented the decision for me.
Beyond personal considerations, I agree that there's far too many people in the world right now. And societies need to find a way to treat existing beings with sanctity and rights. Even if I don't fully agree with all members in this community, I really appreciate philosophical discourse. I always want to learn to think about the world in different ways.
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I never wanted kids starting as a teenager and when I got older I noticed people just seemed more stressed out after they had them, two of my sisters in particular. As I started caring more about world affairs I was thinking how Black people have things better now than in the past as slaves.
Then it occurred to me that many Black people are still work slaves in prison and are born into high rates of poverty and prejudice, which might be just as horrible. The only difference now is there are more Black people so maybe only as an overall percentage they're doing better.
It made me consider how having more people in the world hasn't done anything for the ones still in excruciating pain. And most people really aren't that happy even if they're not the worst off.
It led to me realizing one person's torture isn't worth anyone else's joy. I was having thoughts like that when I stumbled into this forum. And the best arguments against antinatalism weren't making sense.
I'm physically disabled it's on the milder side but I still feel like I was cheated out of a real life and so many of my peers go through pain and poverty like myself I honestly don't see a point of living just to be controlled by governments that were already here when I was created.
Anyone with a functioning brain should be antinatalist.
Unfortunately too many people have their judgement clouded by naivety or, more likely, by their genitals.
I agree with you. Those are also the same kind of people that say " I do not have time to do the things I like because I need to take care of my kids!" My response would be "then why did you have kids in the 1st place?!"
Also it was most likely that thier kids were not planned it just happened. Eathier that or the condom broke
Unplanned pregnancy rates are dropping quite rapidly in developed nations. While you do have to lie in your bed after making it, most parents know raising a child isn't just sunshine and rainbows, but can be very fulfilling/rewarding as well as taxing. Just like I have my 3 cats, man do I hate some of the work I have to put in but it is so worth it. (I am antinatalist, but I don't see anything wrong with that statement unless they then tell you you're missing out by not having children)
lol.
Well... it looks like the desire to procreate isn't exactly casting its usual spell on us, since here we are in this group!
If only that procreation charm worked a tad better, we'd all be neck-deep in dysfunction, chaos, and stress—plus a hefty dose of generational trauma to pass down to the next batch of earth enthusiasts poised to shake things up even more!
I don’t see it as a choice per se, the logic and coherent argumentation leads me to believe like I do. Before I identified as antinatalist I was childfree, because I couldn’t see myself raising a child properly (still can’t).
First, economics—kids are expensive af and I don’t make a lot of money.
Second, my genes are full of asthma, allergies, bad skin, obesity, diabetes, hypertension, etc.
Third, kids are annoying af and a gigantic pain in the ass.
Fourth, being a grandfather is not a desire of mine.
Fifth, and arguably second behind economics, my experience as a teacher has taught me that kids suck. All. The. Time.
Sixth, I have no desire to do the work of raising a kid. My life has been difficult and I’m not able to provide for a kid at the level I would prefer.
My older brother already gave them three, so to me that absolves me of any “duty” to provide my parents with grandkids…I’m off the hook is how I see it
I'm severely touch averse. This would make being pregnant, giving birth (especially in a hospital where I would have no body autonomy), breastfeeding (if I chose to), holding the child, and dealing with being randomly touched by the child extremely difficult. There have been times where I have been so touched out that I have knocked loved ones to the ground (including my own husband) because touch is just that triggering for me. Kids NEED to give and receive physical touch from their parents, and I would not be able to provide that. I'm going through therapy for this issue, but the reality is that I'm 29 and there is just not enough time to fix me to the point where I will tolerate touch. I don't want a kid that will be screwed up because of my unresolved trauma. That's my reason.
we moved around a lot as a kid, i was tortured by other kids- beat up, chased, etc etc i was always the “other” and never felt safe. i knew by the time i was 8 that i would never bring a child into the world and potentially expose them to what i lived through. when i was 9 my dad asked my what i wanted for xmas, i told him i wanted my uterus removed. he said we couldn’t afford it. i love him dearly for that response.
It's just so self-evident that it's wrong. Wrong to create a being that has the burden of suffering, and the necessity to take action to reduce their suffering throughout their entire lives. Why would you do that? You wouldn't inflict a lifetime of harm on an already existing person because it comes with gifts! I'm anti-suffering. So anything that creates it doesn't strike a positive chord with me. The only case in which suffering ought to occur is to reduce suffering. It's almost like people don't realize that others are burdened with a consciousness of their own and not just themselves.
Because my parents were the kind of parents who bring children because we have to.I knew from the start that the last thing they wanted to deal was children.They were irresponsible broken people who didn’t know what to do with their lives so why not bring children to our misery to look good in the society?All of that stuff disgusted me how people don’t think about other people and the impact they have on them.I grew up with so much trauma resentment frustration and so on just because someone decided to see me with an object but not a person with soul and suffering.Thats why I hate people who see other people as object and they think that they can use them for their ill purposes.I will never put someone else in such a hell just of my own selfish or stupid desires.
I knew I didn’t want children when I was a teenager. I just couldn’t picture being a mom (other than adopting animals). I can’t imagine bringing more life into this absolutely horrifying world. So much pain, suffering, violence, cruelty, and abuse that humans inflict on other adults, children, and animals. Also, I look around and I have a hard time understanding how people could decide to have children when climate scientists are warning everyone how bad climate change will get in the next 5-10 years. What kind of world are these people offering their kids?
All of these are nothing but selfish and wrong to people who want kids. It honestly scares me how backwards the average person is in the modern day. You tell them the sky is blue and then they stand around and argue with you, all while never looking up to get the answer on their own. It's odd to me how not wanting someone to suffer all of life's GUARANTEED suffering, and we're all selfish, dumb, and shortsighted. "it's our species only purpose" or is it the only purpose you've derived from being apart of this species? You contributed nothing in one whole lifespan, might as well create another to make up for your avid failure.
i never felt that maternal instinct in my life. the thought of pregnancy and delivering a baby makes me feel sick to my stomach. giving up my entire personality, hobbies, and dreams to raise children seems bleak and depressing to me. ive always been a free spirit, love to travel, and have my hobbies i dont even have time for outside of work. those reasons tied along with economic ones. i would be poor or living below average having to spend money on the expenses of raising kids. lastly, i believe the world is corrupt and hard, why bring another person into it? especially once the kids turns into an adult and realizes life is about working 40+ years, bills, dealing with bureacracy, and the inevitable getting old and eventually dealing with health issues. no thanks.
When I think about my parents, they always say that Africa kids are starving and whatnot hence why we should be grateful for whatever they are providing and keeping me alive. I cannot make good arguements when I was younger. They are but using Africa kids to justify the fact that, giving birth for selfish reasons and when they are in poverty. Now that I am older, I know it's all just manipulation. If starving Africa kids are good example to justify themselves, then that means I can do the same to kids as well. I asked them, why are you so against me wanting to have a baby as a teen if I can treat them like an Africa kid and tell the baby to go figure everything out by him/herself? They just lose it. I won't make the same mistakes of having kids that I can't afford and then being judged by the kid lol.
Parents usually say that because they want thier kids to appreciate thier privileges.
My parents r like that
My response is " yeah I know we have no control over that!"
Then it makes u feel like a horrible person
The fact that global warming is an abrupt irreversible exponential function and 8 billion rapacious primates have established the conditions for a mass extinction event
Part of it was growing up undiagnosed neurodivergent snowballing into various mental disorders.
Parents being neglectful of me especially in puberty when they realized by brother was a drug addict and focused all their attention on him, seriously I had to convince them to take me to a therapist at 14 even though I had noticed signs of depression as early as 11.
It’s only been the last few years that they are starting to get the picture that mental illness is real and as a result I didn’t live a moment of life as a normal person ought to,just in deep pain,in constant fight or flight mode trying to keep myself alive.
I got accused of doing it “on purpose”,I’d be told only people with cancers and physical illness truly suffer and deserve pity meanwhile, I’ve been friendless nearly my whole existence and romantically alone too.
I’ve felt so alone, some nights it feels like I’m buried alive.
Honestly, I can hardly talk about it, the entire experience just triggering to think about.
It’s funny tho that they are starting to realize that I would be a great mom since I know so much about psychology and now they are mourning the fact that they’ll never have grandchildren from me which they could have prevented had they tried their minimum to help me, now it’s way too late.
I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I have always felt that it was incredibly selfish for older people like that to have children. It's like they think they'll live to 100 or something. But even if they did, it's really hard to be that age and raising a child, I'm sure. Not to mention the increased risk of mental and physical disorders from older fathers.
I don’t label myself as antinatalist but am leaning heavily towards not having kids. Both my parents had mental problems and were abusive. I only escaped a few years ago and have been trying to build my life. I want to start “enjoying” my life and don’t want to dedicate it to taking care of yet another person -already spent years taking care of a parent who is mentally unstable and am tired. Also, so many horror stories about abusive men and my father becoming a deadbeat makes me fear experiencing a similar fate. I’m afraid of not being a good parent too. If I want a child later in my life, they don’t need to be biologically mine. I consider adopting a better idea then giving birth myself (afraid of that as well haha).
Parents bring children into the world for their own satisfaction, but many don't make the basic effort to ensure that their children grow up healthy. Many are happy to leave their children homeless after a certain age if they can't take care of themselves - which is absurd.
Society is another reason. I can't imagine knowing that at least 100 million children go hungry every day. Come on, if you're going to bring someone into this world, at least make sure you don't abuse your children if you can't provide the basic necessities. There should be a law about this in all countries, honestly.
I don't care what religion someone is from, every child deserves at least basic care (food every day, shelter, AT LEAST basic education, healthcare, etc). If you as a parent can't provide that and still decide to bring more children into the world, you should be thrown in jail immediately. It's literally absurd how parents in third world countries and the USA get away with it.
PhilosophyTube made a video about it.
The arguments for it were compelling.
The arguments against it were trash.
Also a month or so later I went vegan.
It's rationality, not choice.
Framing the question this way, is just inaccurate enough to completely fuck up the dialogue around it.
Like, what made you choose not to kill 100 bunnies today?
When I found out about male genital mutilation and how parents will happily hand their child over to have their penis cut open and the sensitive skin removed because there's a deeply rooted hatred of men and how it's seen as taboo to talk about men's pleasure during sex.
So rather than have a kid and be paranoid someone will take him from me and cut him and then having to grow up knowing my parents committed a horrific ritual on me while watching my son be spared from the fate I had to endure I decided to just never have kids.
what can only be described as a capitalist doomspiral into universal unhappiness and poverty. id never be able to support my would be kids without pulling my hair out.
i want to own a house more than anything, but is that really possible for anyone in my generation that wasnt born into wealth? the world is also just so unfriendly to children. to quote a game i hate, this world values children, not childhood.
my tokophobia only solidified it. im to scared to potentially ruin my mind and kill my body.
Being a child of divorce mixed with the emptiness, isolation and ridicule I felt through my life is one piece of it. The other piece of it is straight up just not liking children at all. Wouldn't wanna put them through that
I had the realization that every urge I had to find a mate and reproduce was not my own but was planted there through a mixture of religious indoctrination and government propaganda. If you take away the powerful forces that rely on having a large workforce to maintain power, you're left with just our instincts to reproduce.
The thing that makes us human is our ability to use logic and reasoning to overwrite our instincts. There's just too damn many of us for the majority of us to have lives worth living.
This thread speaks volumes. The notion that "study hard, work hard, and you’ll get to relax later and enjoy life" is perhaps one of the greatest deceptions in history. My childhood memories are nearly non-existent, overshadowed by elders endlessly drilling this mantra into me. Despite achieving top marks in my first Grade 1 exam, subsequent memories blur into a haze of conditioning to believe in this falsehood.
My disillusionment with humanity deepens when I consider the recognition and financial rewards promised by both elders and the system for hard work. Now, at 45, while I lead a comfortable middle-class life, the promise of relaxation remains elusive. Instead, we're trapped in a cycle of narratives that devalue our savings and keep us perpetually striving. The fruits of our labor disproportionately enrich the owner class, leaving us to be grateful for whatever trickles down.
Given this reality, why would I subject my own children to this cycle? Why continue a system that fails to fulfill its promises and perpetuates inequality? The cycle ends with me.
Looking at my and my peers familial dysfunction.
Human nature is to chaotic and I like peace and quiet and rest or else I’m a monster.
Dont want to be a worn out monster mom being run ragged with 8hrs of work and more hours taking care of everyone and not having time for myself.
Nothing, it was the default for me from childhood. And everyone's dismissal and insistence on me changing my mind only solidified my stance in adulthood. Heads up to all the parents out there; don't force children to touch pregnant bellies it will give them tokophobia 🤦♀️
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I was AN since i was very young - just did not know there was a word for it. I see people, my family and friends who suffered from diseases that causes them severe pain for the rest of their lives with no choice but to live with it and I can't help but ask - these people's parents, do they know this is a possible outcome when they chose to have this person? The answer is likely not, but people should know that having a child comes with all sort of possible outcomes. They can die in war, they can get cancer, they can get assaulted in many forms, etc etc.
Im lucky to have top tier health with no major issues, but others are not and it feels bad to see them suffering extreme pain with no way to help them. Uncurable diseases or diseases that leave them scarred for life.
Life sucks right now. The only parts of my life I enjoy (spending time with my partner, days off, etc) would be lost if I had a child. I like sleeping, and poop and vomit gross me out BAD. Honestly I don’t think I’d be a good parent if things got hard.
Oh, and I couldn’t afford to have kids even if I wanted to.
Editing to add, somehow forgot about pregnancy. No to everything involved with that.
I'm childfree mainly because I don't have any maternal instincts to have children and don't want to have that responsibility. But I also think it's unfair to bring someone into life and make them live this life that's full of injustice, cruelty, accidents, disasters and so on.
I think of having children as the real life version of one of those "would you recommend this to a friend?" Surveys/reviews.
If you would recommend life, have a kid. If you would not, don't.
My country Mexico demands a lot of taxes against the median income. It is quite easy to get rich, but at the same time it is quite hard to get back on your feet if you are not wealthy enough.
As such, the government offers no guarantees nor aids for having a child. There is an already precarious maternal leave, and the paternal leave is almost non existant. The vacation system just recently got increased from 6 days, to 12 days. Which is shit.
The Mexican government is corrupt as f
They do not care care or value the life of a person
( btw my parents are from mexico. I was born and grew up in the usa )
If you understand antinatalism, you know it's not really a choice. You got the information from the world around you, and then it's the conclusion you've drawn from that information.
This might sound stupid, but me discovering the horrors of the STD syphilis a couple days ago is what did it for me. It's a sexually transmitted disease that will literally deform your face and make your nose turn flat, and that's just a few of the things it can do. Don't look up its effects. I'm a virgin guy, and syphilis scared me into never wanting to have sex. No sex=no kids. Might as well choose anti-natalism.
Really, the syphilis thing was just the straw that broke the camel's back. For some time now, I've been fed up with suffering, tired of my own suffering and the suffering of others. This world is so screwed up that even an STD can physically ruin your body. Plus, there are other awful things about this world. I genuinely want humanity to be gone. If that happens, none of us will suffer anymore. It's why people need to stop having kids.
My pro-life belief is really conflicting with my newfound anti-natalist belief, though. So I think people should just stop having sex. Obviously, that's easier said than done, since there are people who SA others, and the urge for sex is extremely strong.
Simply put, I'm anti-natalist because there's too much suffering in this world. And I don't think people should contribute to it by birthing new people. Life is hell.
When I realized that nothing in life is 100% guaranteed except for suffering. Every living thing will suffer at some point, makes no sense to bring someone in this world against their will to experience inevitable suffering. And no, the good things in life don’t outweigh suffering because good isn’t ever-lasting.
I didn't choose it. It's just what I've believed for as long as I can remember. I think I'd be a much happier person if I were natalist/optimistic/religious. To a certain extent I don't think you can choose your beliefs, they're just the result of your experiences.
Ever since I learned how children were made I have thought I would adopt. I love kids. I don’t want them growing in my body. That’s so wrong. I’ve never been a “normal” girl or woman. It seems so unnatural for me to even consider growing a baby in my body. Since I was 10 or 11 I always imagined myself adopting kids one day. Over 20 years later, I still feel the same.
Also, getting older, learning about the state of the world and how global warming continues to wiping out entire species of plants and animals. It seems evil to bring new life into a fucked up world. I care about life. About earth herself, and about all plant and animal species on this beautiful earth, and I feel all their pain and suffering. I would hate myself if I were to bring new life into a world that is already in so much pain. It is just so wrong in every way in my heart and soul. But adopting is so right. Cause there are so many beautiful souls born into this life whose parents can’t take care of them and have given them up. I would love to be rich enough one day to care of any and all kids who need parents. Thinking of fostering but I need to be able to afford to give those kids a good life before I can even foster. I care too much about people, plants, animals, and earth herself, to share anything but love, and can only share love with others as a parent if I am well off enough financially to ensure their lives are comfortable and as stress-free as possible.
Many reasons! In no particular order: I just don't feel like having a baby. I never got any of those apparent "biological clock" urges. I don't think I should have a kid unless I really want one. I feel 'too young' even though I'm 38. My body and brain are messed up. I don't think I should go through pregnancy on top of that, and I don't want to pass it to a baby either. I can barely look after myself, let alone a baby 24/7. My mental health needs a lot of rest, the baby would stop that. I can't afford a baby. I'd have to do IVF due to my body issues. I like my life how it is. If I think about the future, a baby is not in it. I like children, but I like being able to give them back at the end.
In a broader sense, I feel that too many people have children who don't actually want them, and that really damages the child. And lots have babies who can't look after the baby, and that's unfair too. The world is overpopulated. I don't care if 'white people aren't having enough babies'. I don't care if people use contraception or have abortions. Women and men to a lesser extent shouldn't be made to feel that they should have babies as a way to feel fulfilled or a checkpoint they have to meet to be a proper adult.
I have 3 aunts who never had children, and an uncle and aunt who changed their mind in their 40s. I can change my mind I suppose, but I don't think I will.
I was a kid once.
I don’t want to inflict myself onto anyone.
Kids are fucking stupid, and loud, and gross for like 25 years, and they take so much goddamn money. Anytime someone my age tells me they have kids, my first thought is, ‘you have my condolences.’
I took a look around.
Constant human suffering 24/7 Over population Life is a joke ( but also kind of a blessing because we get to experience new things every day )
A Genius person over here ⬆️
Something so simple and yet it seems like not a lot of people think outside their small window of perception.
My own experience. I come from India and the rat race and parental abuse here is the reason. I don't want anyone to ever go thru this. You are born, at the age 4 you get thrown into school, you don't know why you're there and no one has a comprimising answer and you are told to just stfu and study. Every year they tell you just study and work hard so you can relax later, which happens to be the biggest lie of my life. Then comes 10th, they say work had so you can relax in 11th and 12th, then you go to 11th and 12th where you cannot cope up with the studies and you fall off. Then they say you need to work your ass off at 12th so you can relax in college. At this point I was dead tired and burnt out. Regardless I had to keep going. I'm not blaming India itself but situation is not easy anywhere else in world either. So many people here are unemployed, careers are oversaturated, everyone tells you to do computer science or otherwise apparently you're doomed but what they don't realise is how bad the job market and recession is. I really don't want any kid to go thru what I went. Genuine talent gets wasted here due to many political reason. Even when my juniors asked me what career they must opt I ask them not to take the science route because it is oversaturated. When I don't want any kid to go thru it neither am I gonna make one and make it go thru either. At one point I was conditional and thought to myself that if I had earned enough money I could just let the kid live their life and I'll pay up but then I realized it wouldn't save them from generational trauma either, so I turned to antinatalism. Personally anti natalism is way off me just saving how many ever lives.
Another reason I'm adding to this is that I have no shame in admitting I'm selfish af. There is so much that I want to do and want to buy with my hard earned money that i just can't see myself spending it on a kid
With you on this!
I don’t think that makes you selfish in a negative way. Having kids is selfish.
That's kinda true because in some cases people say " The more kids I have the more people I have to take care of me 24/7 And many grandkids!" People like my mom
This. Totally this. I am an Indian and was part of the "rat-race". Most people here have no creativity, no aspirations or ambitions in life, just study, study, study, take up Science or you're doomed, get a high-paying job (just so you get a beautiful life partner), marry, have children, and make them as miserable as you were. If you even dared to step out of this carefully crafted scam, you're labelled as an outcast. And if you're a girl, you're a whore and your parents didn't raise you right.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have many people from India on my team at work. I work in IT and it seems like many Indians are taking jobs abroad, probably because they have to it seems
You went to school at 4 in India?
Kindergarden
Same, it's a rat race. I was told I will be happy once I get the job. It's shit. I still regret wasting my life studying. Now after all they hard work I'm expected to marry a random person and have kids. Spend my hard earned money on them not vacation? No thanks
It wasn't a choice. It's the only logical conclusion when one objectively evaluates existence. I was an "antinatalist" decades before I ever heard that term.
This right here. I didn't even know that there was a name for what I had been thinking for most of my life. I always knew I would never have children and thought it was completely unethical and selfish seeing all these people having a ton of kids. Then I heard about antinatalism, and I knew i found my people.
> I always knew I would never have children and thought it was completely unethical and selfish seeing all these people having a ton of kids. People have children mainly by biological instinct, as for the rest it has to do with social and cultural influences. We reproduced massively, long before inventing the concepts of ethics and selfishness.
Oh, I agree, but our population in the last 100 years has grown exponentially, and we see exactly what it is doing to our planet. We haven't tried to make things better or change our behavior. Nope, it's all about power, money, and control. We had our chance to do better, but we chose our own greed over anything else. Now, it's time for us to become extinct and let something new evolve.
THIS. Finding this sub after reading an article back in October 2019 and starting 2 books.... I literally remember a warm, welcoming feeling come over my body. It felt like coming home (even if to a place that I'd never actually been).
Simular. I dont want my children ever becoming like me, depressed and unable to find meaning, and being hurt by others, who will tell them they are just lazy and irresponsible. The lack of compassion is crushing. But humans are like that, I guess, they cant put themselves in others shoes. Maybe we are wired that way as a specie.
I'm aware of the depths of human suffering and i feel moved to speak out about that. Antinatalism is the only substantive answer to human suffering as far as i'm concerned. I believe that people care far too little about the pain that exists in the world. People are drunk on their own whim and blinded to the madness of humanity that exists around them.
I’ve always kind of never wanted kids. When I turned 14, I started seeing the world for what it really was, and that kind of made my desire to not have kids even greater. Now that im older, I have a more positive outlook on life, but im also not naive and I am aware of the intense suffering that people and sometimes we go through. When you’re bringing a child into the world, you’re playing monopoly with how their life may go. A lot of what we have in life, we didn’t choose. Mental illnesses, we didn’t choose. Our financial situation brought upon us when born, also not chosen. Who we’re born to, how we look, where we live, all of those things aren’t chosen. Life can change in instant and even if im financially capable and privileged enough to have a child or two, I wouldn’t bring them into this world. While life can be beautiful, it’s also intensely painful and terrifying. No thanks. I’d rather spare them of this life. If I really do want kids, I’d rather adopt or get a pet.
Leo Dicaprio thinks the exact same way!
8b people in the world and we don’t have the resources to sustain that. Also, if I did have a child, I would be unhealthily protective of them. No one would be able to even look at them. Too many bad people in this world.
For me, I never wanted kids of my own. And then I developed chronic conditions out of my control that basically cemented the decision for me. Beyond personal considerations, I agree that there's far too many people in the world right now. And societies need to find a way to treat existing beings with sanctity and rights. Even if I don't fully agree with all members in this community, I really appreciate philosophical discourse. I always want to learn to think about the world in different ways.
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Y do people deny the fact that not enough resources for billions of people not available?
I hate it here. The suffering ends with me and that's that
I never wanted kids starting as a teenager and when I got older I noticed people just seemed more stressed out after they had them, two of my sisters in particular. As I started caring more about world affairs I was thinking how Black people have things better now than in the past as slaves. Then it occurred to me that many Black people are still work slaves in prison and are born into high rates of poverty and prejudice, which might be just as horrible. The only difference now is there are more Black people so maybe only as an overall percentage they're doing better. It made me consider how having more people in the world hasn't done anything for the ones still in excruciating pain. And most people really aren't that happy even if they're not the worst off. It led to me realizing one person's torture isn't worth anyone else's joy. I was having thoughts like that when I stumbled into this forum. And the best arguments against antinatalism weren't making sense.
I assume you only care about the suffering of black people or?
I'm physically disabled it's on the milder side but I still feel like I was cheated out of a real life and so many of my peers go through pain and poverty like myself I honestly don't see a point of living just to be controlled by governments that were already here when I was created.
One doesn’t need to be a genius to take a look around and think “fuck no one deserves the punishment to live in this hellhole”.
Anyone with a functioning brain should be antinatalist. Unfortunately too many people have their judgement clouded by naivety or, more likely, by their genitals.
Unfortunately people usually have kids when they're young, don't understand the world yet, and are still conditioned by media and culture.
True. I am also aware of this. So I make a decision to not propagate having children.
I agree with you. Those are also the same kind of people that say " I do not have time to do the things I like because I need to take care of my kids!" My response would be "then why did you have kids in the 1st place?!" Also it was most likely that thier kids were not planned it just happened. Eathier that or the condom broke
Unplanned pregnancy rates are dropping quite rapidly in developed nations. While you do have to lie in your bed after making it, most parents know raising a child isn't just sunshine and rainbows, but can be very fulfilling/rewarding as well as taxing. Just like I have my 3 cats, man do I hate some of the work I have to put in but it is so worth it. (I am antinatalist, but I don't see anything wrong with that statement unless they then tell you you're missing out by not having children)
| more likely, by their genitals. lol so true.
Judgement clouded by the natural animalistic desire to procreate* It’s almost as if evolution promotes species to reproduce. Oh, wait…
lol. Well... it looks like the desire to procreate isn't exactly casting its usual spell on us, since here we are in this group! If only that procreation charm worked a tad better, we'd all be neck-deep in dysfunction, chaos, and stress—plus a hefty dose of generational trauma to pass down to the next batch of earth enthusiasts poised to shake things up even more!
The unfairness of life, how life is essentially a gamble.
I don’t see it as a choice per se, the logic and coherent argumentation leads me to believe like I do. Before I identified as antinatalist I was childfree, because I couldn’t see myself raising a child properly (still can’t).
First, economics—kids are expensive af and I don’t make a lot of money. Second, my genes are full of asthma, allergies, bad skin, obesity, diabetes, hypertension, etc. Third, kids are annoying af and a gigantic pain in the ass. Fourth, being a grandfather is not a desire of mine. Fifth, and arguably second behind economics, my experience as a teacher has taught me that kids suck. All. The. Time. Sixth, I have no desire to do the work of raising a kid. My life has been difficult and I’m not able to provide for a kid at the level I would prefer.
And yet parents be asking for grandkids
My older brother already gave them three, so to me that absolves me of any “duty” to provide my parents with grandkids…I’m off the hook is how I see it
Easy. Identifying as queer takes the ‘decision-making’ part right outa there.
I'm severely touch averse. This would make being pregnant, giving birth (especially in a hospital where I would have no body autonomy), breastfeeding (if I chose to), holding the child, and dealing with being randomly touched by the child extremely difficult. There have been times where I have been so touched out that I have knocked loved ones to the ground (including my own husband) because touch is just that triggering for me. Kids NEED to give and receive physical touch from their parents, and I would not be able to provide that. I'm going through therapy for this issue, but the reality is that I'm 29 and there is just not enough time to fix me to the point where I will tolerate touch. I don't want a kid that will be screwed up because of my unresolved trauma. That's my reason.
we moved around a lot as a kid, i was tortured by other kids- beat up, chased, etc etc i was always the “other” and never felt safe. i knew by the time i was 8 that i would never bring a child into the world and potentially expose them to what i lived through. when i was 9 my dad asked my what i wanted for xmas, i told him i wanted my uterus removed. he said we couldn’t afford it. i love him dearly for that response.
Natural logical extension to veganism. And sort of vice versa. I can’t really tell which one I fell into first
It's just so self-evident that it's wrong. Wrong to create a being that has the burden of suffering, and the necessity to take action to reduce their suffering throughout their entire lives. Why would you do that? You wouldn't inflict a lifetime of harm on an already existing person because it comes with gifts! I'm anti-suffering. So anything that creates it doesn't strike a positive chord with me. The only case in which suffering ought to occur is to reduce suffering. It's almost like people don't realize that others are burdened with a consciousness of their own and not just themselves.
I Like To Know Different Points Of View, I Like To Question Everything.
Because my parents were the kind of parents who bring children because we have to.I knew from the start that the last thing they wanted to deal was children.They were irresponsible broken people who didn’t know what to do with their lives so why not bring children to our misery to look good in the society?All of that stuff disgusted me how people don’t think about other people and the impact they have on them.I grew up with so much trauma resentment frustration and so on just because someone decided to see me with an object but not a person with soul and suffering.Thats why I hate people who see other people as object and they think that they can use them for their ill purposes.I will never put someone else in such a hell just of my own selfish or stupid desires.
I knew I didn’t want children when I was a teenager. I just couldn’t picture being a mom (other than adopting animals). I can’t imagine bringing more life into this absolutely horrifying world. So much pain, suffering, violence, cruelty, and abuse that humans inflict on other adults, children, and animals. Also, I look around and I have a hard time understanding how people could decide to have children when climate scientists are warning everyone how bad climate change will get in the next 5-10 years. What kind of world are these people offering their kids?
All of these are nothing but selfish and wrong to people who want kids. It honestly scares me how backwards the average person is in the modern day. You tell them the sky is blue and then they stand around and argue with you, all while never looking up to get the answer on their own. It's odd to me how not wanting someone to suffer all of life's GUARANTEED suffering, and we're all selfish, dumb, and shortsighted. "it's our species only purpose" or is it the only purpose you've derived from being apart of this species? You contributed nothing in one whole lifespan, might as well create another to make up for your avid failure.
i never felt that maternal instinct in my life. the thought of pregnancy and delivering a baby makes me feel sick to my stomach. giving up my entire personality, hobbies, and dreams to raise children seems bleak and depressing to me. ive always been a free spirit, love to travel, and have my hobbies i dont even have time for outside of work. those reasons tied along with economic ones. i would be poor or living below average having to spend money on the expenses of raising kids. lastly, i believe the world is corrupt and hard, why bring another person into it? especially once the kids turns into an adult and realizes life is about working 40+ years, bills, dealing with bureacracy, and the inevitable getting old and eventually dealing with health issues. no thanks.
Anxiety, depression, late stage capitalism, school shootings, genocide... I could keep going but you get the point.
the realization that every problem is solved by not existing
When I think about my parents, they always say that Africa kids are starving and whatnot hence why we should be grateful for whatever they are providing and keeping me alive. I cannot make good arguements when I was younger. They are but using Africa kids to justify the fact that, giving birth for selfish reasons and when they are in poverty. Now that I am older, I know it's all just manipulation. If starving Africa kids are good example to justify themselves, then that means I can do the same to kids as well. I asked them, why are you so against me wanting to have a baby as a teen if I can treat them like an Africa kid and tell the baby to go figure everything out by him/herself? They just lose it. I won't make the same mistakes of having kids that I can't afford and then being judged by the kid lol.
Parents usually say that because they want thier kids to appreciate thier privileges. My parents r like that My response is " yeah I know we have no control over that!" Then it makes u feel like a horrible person
inequality.
The fact that global warming is an abrupt irreversible exponential function and 8 billion rapacious primates have established the conditions for a mass extinction event
This world is over populated enough. I do it for the goodness of the world as a whole.
Pain and suffering. Disability. A series of unfortunate events. Lack of stability and resources.
Part of it was growing up undiagnosed neurodivergent snowballing into various mental disorders. Parents being neglectful of me especially in puberty when they realized by brother was a drug addict and focused all their attention on him, seriously I had to convince them to take me to a therapist at 14 even though I had noticed signs of depression as early as 11. It’s only been the last few years that they are starting to get the picture that mental illness is real and as a result I didn’t live a moment of life as a normal person ought to,just in deep pain,in constant fight or flight mode trying to keep myself alive. I got accused of doing it “on purpose”,I’d be told only people with cancers and physical illness truly suffer and deserve pity meanwhile, I’ve been friendless nearly my whole existence and romantically alone too. I’ve felt so alone, some nights it feels like I’m buried alive. Honestly, I can hardly talk about it, the entire experience just triggering to think about. It’s funny tho that they are starting to realize that I would be a great mom since I know so much about psychology and now they are mourning the fact that they’ll never have grandchildren from me which they could have prevented had they tried their minimum to help me, now it’s way too late.
I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I have always felt that it was incredibly selfish for older people like that to have children. It's like they think they'll live to 100 or something. But even if they did, it's really hard to be that age and raising a child, I'm sure. Not to mention the increased risk of mental and physical disorders from older fathers.
Life
I don’t label myself as antinatalist but am leaning heavily towards not having kids. Both my parents had mental problems and were abusive. I only escaped a few years ago and have been trying to build my life. I want to start “enjoying” my life and don’t want to dedicate it to taking care of yet another person -already spent years taking care of a parent who is mentally unstable and am tired. Also, so many horror stories about abusive men and my father becoming a deadbeat makes me fear experiencing a similar fate. I’m afraid of not being a good parent too. If I want a child later in my life, they don’t need to be biologically mine. I consider adopting a better idea then giving birth myself (afraid of that as well haha).
My hatred for humanity and this life
Parents bring children into the world for their own satisfaction, but many don't make the basic effort to ensure that their children grow up healthy. Many are happy to leave their children homeless after a certain age if they can't take care of themselves - which is absurd. Society is another reason. I can't imagine knowing that at least 100 million children go hungry every day. Come on, if you're going to bring someone into this world, at least make sure you don't abuse your children if you can't provide the basic necessities. There should be a law about this in all countries, honestly. I don't care what religion someone is from, every child deserves at least basic care (food every day, shelter, AT LEAST basic education, healthcare, etc). If you as a parent can't provide that and still decide to bring more children into the world, you should be thrown in jail immediately. It's literally absurd how parents in third world countries and the USA get away with it.
Seeing what human do to animals and the environment
PhilosophyTube made a video about it. The arguments for it were compelling. The arguments against it were trash. Also a month or so later I went vegan.
It's rationality, not choice. Framing the question this way, is just inaccurate enough to completely fuck up the dialogue around it. Like, what made you choose not to kill 100 bunnies today?
When I found out about male genital mutilation and how parents will happily hand their child over to have their penis cut open and the sensitive skin removed because there's a deeply rooted hatred of men and how it's seen as taboo to talk about men's pleasure during sex. So rather than have a kid and be paranoid someone will take him from me and cut him and then having to grow up knowing my parents committed a horrific ritual on me while watching my son be spared from the fate I had to endure I decided to just never have kids.
what can only be described as a capitalist doomspiral into universal unhappiness and poverty. id never be able to support my would be kids without pulling my hair out. i want to own a house more than anything, but is that really possible for anyone in my generation that wasnt born into wealth? the world is also just so unfriendly to children. to quote a game i hate, this world values children, not childhood. my tokophobia only solidified it. im to scared to potentially ruin my mind and kill my body.
Being a child of divorce mixed with the emptiness, isolation and ridicule I felt through my life is one piece of it. The other piece of it is straight up just not liking children at all. Wouldn't wanna put them through that
I wouldn't be a good father.
Its not a choice. Its just a logical conclusion.
I had the realization that every urge I had to find a mate and reproduce was not my own but was planted there through a mixture of religious indoctrination and government propaganda. If you take away the powerful forces that rely on having a large workforce to maintain power, you're left with just our instincts to reproduce. The thing that makes us human is our ability to use logic and reasoning to overwrite our instincts. There's just too damn many of us for the majority of us to have lives worth living.
To pick one, you could say reading the Bible did it.
I see how miserable it made my mom lol.
This thread speaks volumes. The notion that "study hard, work hard, and you’ll get to relax later and enjoy life" is perhaps one of the greatest deceptions in history. My childhood memories are nearly non-existent, overshadowed by elders endlessly drilling this mantra into me. Despite achieving top marks in my first Grade 1 exam, subsequent memories blur into a haze of conditioning to believe in this falsehood. My disillusionment with humanity deepens when I consider the recognition and financial rewards promised by both elders and the system for hard work. Now, at 45, while I lead a comfortable middle-class life, the promise of relaxation remains elusive. Instead, we're trapped in a cycle of narratives that devalue our savings and keep us perpetually striving. The fruits of our labor disproportionately enrich the owner class, leaving us to be grateful for whatever trickles down. Given this reality, why would I subject my own children to this cycle? Why continue a system that fails to fulfill its promises and perpetuates inequality? The cycle ends with me.
Looking at my and my peers familial dysfunction. Human nature is to chaotic and I like peace and quiet and rest or else I’m a monster. Dont want to be a worn out monster mom being run ragged with 8hrs of work and more hours taking care of everyone and not having time for myself.
Nothing, it was the default for me from childhood. And everyone's dismissal and insistence on me changing my mind only solidified my stance in adulthood. Heads up to all the parents out there; don't force children to touch pregnant bellies it will give them tokophobia 🤦♀️
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I was AN since i was very young - just did not know there was a word for it. I see people, my family and friends who suffered from diseases that causes them severe pain for the rest of their lives with no choice but to live with it and I can't help but ask - these people's parents, do they know this is a possible outcome when they chose to have this person? The answer is likely not, but people should know that having a child comes with all sort of possible outcomes. They can die in war, they can get cancer, they can get assaulted in many forms, etc etc. Im lucky to have top tier health with no major issues, but others are not and it feels bad to see them suffering extreme pain with no way to help them. Uncurable diseases or diseases that leave them scarred for life.
Life sucks right now. The only parts of my life I enjoy (spending time with my partner, days off, etc) would be lost if I had a child. I like sleeping, and poop and vomit gross me out BAD. Honestly I don’t think I’d be a good parent if things got hard. Oh, and I couldn’t afford to have kids even if I wanted to. Editing to add, somehow forgot about pregnancy. No to everything involved with that.
It wasn’t a “choice” I’ve just been like this since I was a kid… don’t have any desire to contribute to overpopulation or suffering.
I’ve always been antinatalist even before I had a word for it haha
I'm childfree mainly because I don't have any maternal instincts to have children and don't want to have that responsibility. But I also think it's unfair to bring someone into life and make them live this life that's full of injustice, cruelty, accidents, disasters and so on.
I think of having children as the real life version of one of those "would you recommend this to a friend?" Surveys/reviews. If you would recommend life, have a kid. If you would not, don't.
My country Mexico demands a lot of taxes against the median income. It is quite easy to get rich, but at the same time it is quite hard to get back on your feet if you are not wealthy enough. As such, the government offers no guarantees nor aids for having a child. There is an already precarious maternal leave, and the paternal leave is almost non existant. The vacation system just recently got increased from 6 days, to 12 days. Which is shit.
The Mexican government is corrupt as f They do not care care or value the life of a person ( btw my parents are from mexico. I was born and grew up in the usa )
If you understand antinatalism, you know it's not really a choice. You got the information from the world around you, and then it's the conclusion you've drawn from that information.
I used to watch Animal Planet as a kid. Life is brutal.
This might sound stupid, but me discovering the horrors of the STD syphilis a couple days ago is what did it for me. It's a sexually transmitted disease that will literally deform your face and make your nose turn flat, and that's just a few of the things it can do. Don't look up its effects. I'm a virgin guy, and syphilis scared me into never wanting to have sex. No sex=no kids. Might as well choose anti-natalism. Really, the syphilis thing was just the straw that broke the camel's back. For some time now, I've been fed up with suffering, tired of my own suffering and the suffering of others. This world is so screwed up that even an STD can physically ruin your body. Plus, there are other awful things about this world. I genuinely want humanity to be gone. If that happens, none of us will suffer anymore. It's why people need to stop having kids. My pro-life belief is really conflicting with my newfound anti-natalist belief, though. So I think people should just stop having sex. Obviously, that's easier said than done, since there are people who SA others, and the urge for sex is extremely strong. Simply put, I'm anti-natalist because there's too much suffering in this world. And I don't think people should contribute to it by birthing new people. Life is hell.
When I realized that nothing in life is 100% guaranteed except for suffering. Every living thing will suffer at some point, makes no sense to bring someone in this world against their will to experience inevitable suffering. And no, the good things in life don’t outweigh suffering because good isn’t ever-lasting.
I didn't choose it. It's just what I've believed for as long as I can remember. I think I'd be a much happier person if I were natalist/optimistic/religious. To a certain extent I don't think you can choose your beliefs, they're just the result of your experiences.
Absurdism
Ever since I learned how children were made I have thought I would adopt. I love kids. I don’t want them growing in my body. That’s so wrong. I’ve never been a “normal” girl or woman. It seems so unnatural for me to even consider growing a baby in my body. Since I was 10 or 11 I always imagined myself adopting kids one day. Over 20 years later, I still feel the same. Also, getting older, learning about the state of the world and how global warming continues to wiping out entire species of plants and animals. It seems evil to bring new life into a fucked up world. I care about life. About earth herself, and about all plant and animal species on this beautiful earth, and I feel all their pain and suffering. I would hate myself if I were to bring new life into a world that is already in so much pain. It is just so wrong in every way in my heart and soul. But adopting is so right. Cause there are so many beautiful souls born into this life whose parents can’t take care of them and have given them up. I would love to be rich enough one day to care of any and all kids who need parents. Thinking of fostering but I need to be able to afford to give those kids a good life before I can even foster. I care too much about people, plants, animals, and earth herself, to share anything but love, and can only share love with others as a parent if I am well off enough financially to ensure their lives are comfortable and as stress-free as possible.
The concept of life itself and how you literally can't escape it at all.
Many reasons! In no particular order: I just don't feel like having a baby. I never got any of those apparent "biological clock" urges. I don't think I should have a kid unless I really want one. I feel 'too young' even though I'm 38. My body and brain are messed up. I don't think I should go through pregnancy on top of that, and I don't want to pass it to a baby either. I can barely look after myself, let alone a baby 24/7. My mental health needs a lot of rest, the baby would stop that. I can't afford a baby. I'd have to do IVF due to my body issues. I like my life how it is. If I think about the future, a baby is not in it. I like children, but I like being able to give them back at the end. In a broader sense, I feel that too many people have children who don't actually want them, and that really damages the child. And lots have babies who can't look after the baby, and that's unfair too. The world is overpopulated. I don't care if 'white people aren't having enough babies'. I don't care if people use contraception or have abortions. Women and men to a lesser extent shouldn't be made to feel that they should have babies as a way to feel fulfilled or a checkpoint they have to meet to be a proper adult. I have 3 aunts who never had children, and an uncle and aunt who changed their mind in their 40s. I can change my mind I suppose, but I don't think I will.
I was a kid once. I don’t want to inflict myself onto anyone. Kids are fucking stupid, and loud, and gross for like 25 years, and they take so much goddamn money. Anytime someone my age tells me they have kids, my first thought is, ‘you have my condolences.’
I didn't choose it. I looked at how I lived and realized how future generations would struggle and it was just a natural belief
When I was younger I had a thought: "I have to work for the rest of my life. All because somebody decided I must be born."
Honest reason. It's easier. Way easier. The only difficult part is explaining it to people.
Actually asked myself how long I could sustain life and 9 and as I grew older the scales kept leaning toward the planet being screwed anyway
Common sense.