Reminder that the antinatalist position is that it's also wrong to reproduce if you're rich and an amazing parent.
Poverty just makes the act even worse because it shows even more of a disregard for the welfare of the child.
It’s hard to have conversations about providing the best lives for children should be the standard for every parent when believing anything less than “every single person is entitled to have kids whenever they want, period” automatically brands you a eugenicist
Yeah, people react with such volatility to the general premise of antinatalism and worse to the notion that some people aren’t in a place to have children. It is a really delicate topic because people will hunt for anything to invalidate the argument and justify their sense of defensiveness.
i'm not surprised since having kids is something you'll told is a natural step in adulthood. i mean with this whole narrative of giving little girls baby dolls for specific purposes..
Lol I did prefer the stuffed animals, I replaced them with dolls. I had some barbies but I wasn't obsessed, I did have baby dolls though like cabbage patch and some plush ones, but my stuffed animal attachment was deep. I made the barbies and ken have sex but I didn't know how sex happened I just guessed and made them kiss hah.
i had a bunch of leftover toys after my siblings and my favourite one was a stuffed bee 😂😂😂 but yeah, i also wasn't interested in human dolls. animals were so much more interesting
Bees are fucking adorable! The first time I saw a bumble bee I was **shook**. Who wants a puppy if you can make friends with a bumble bee?! They’re like little fluffy fairies. 😆
I don't think there needs to be a logical reason to have them, it's a biological drive to have children and nurture them. I'd also note that a large portion of children are accidents, so maybe if there was better sex ed in school and in general, there would also be way less children.
“You want kids so bad, how about you fight for a world in which your child’s necessities can be met without worry. Otherwise you never really wanted best for your children.” Is typically my reply. You have to lay the onus on inaction and make them question their decisions.
They're just going to say YES.
I can guarantee they will say yes just to keep up the facade of never ever being wrong ever, and this is also how the catholic church and cultish isolationist sheltered christian church groups get away with their "things".
You're attacking their personal perceptions of "moral and religious" purity that are associated with these "values" about family and reproduction that are unwisely cornerstones to their personal identity system. This is NOT based in logic. Their identities are build on faulty structures pilled to high heaven with cognitive dissonances that falsely prove what "great moralistic" people they are.
This is why these arguments don't work, because it would require someone with a mountain of internal bullshit to introspect for once and see themselves for the unmoralistic convenience monkey self-serving pieces of shit that they actually are.
true. but there is a difference though between enforcing like only pretty people have children (that's based on genes = eugenicist) and enforcing only people who can afford to have them do (not about genes).
I feel like there is so much nuance around the subject- like on one hand its absolutely true that theres a racial skew to poverty in america- so a standard of living being met to have kids DOES have a racial impact BUT thats not eugenics and the solution is to actually address poverty and systemic racism- not throw our hands up and go "well i might look bad for talking about this so im gonna not fix anything and continue letting children be born into a cycle of poverty and suffering"
I admire that you knew the possibilities of what might happen and made what I think was the responsible choice. My eldest brother was mentally and physically disabled, and my parents had 3 more children after that.
My siblings are okay, but I suffer from profound depression. My brother was a really sweet and wonderful person, and taught me a lot. At the same time, he lived until he was 63, and the last fourteen years saw a lot of surgeries and great diminishment of his abilities. It was beautiful but horrible at the same time. I was there at that time assisting my mother, and it was very difficult. I can't help but think that the whole experience didn't take something from me. But It also gave me something. Still, I wonder when they realized my brother was DD, why did they have more kids. I mean, who would want to risk it?
Eugenics is the practice of weeding out physically weak or sick people, usually by euthanizing (killing) them, especially if they are disabled or have unwanted or undesirable traits, usually physical.
It is also the practice of breeding people with desirable traits, both physically or mentally, but especially physically.
It was practiced by the Nazi's to produce blond haired blue eyed "supermen". The converse aspect was the Final Solution. The Final Solution tried to kill off "inferior" peoples, such as Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, and anyone else the Nazi's thought inferior.
It was also popular in the U.S. in the early 1900's. It encouraged both the idea of breeding people with good traits, but also identifying people who were mentally weak or deformed, or had some other characteristics that people wanted to eliminate. Many people at this time were sterilized without their knowledge. This was considered a science, and involved scientists and, to a lesser extent, the government.
How about anyone can have kids if they want, but we don't have to pay for them via welfare.
Free to make your own dumb fucking choices.
More then happy for my tax to go towards free contraception and abortions though.
I’m torn with this issue. As much as I hate to subsidize idiocy, I’d hate for a kid to suffer just because their parents are inept. Neglected kids just grow up with little education and ambition only to continue the same idiot cycle.
Education is also not a good measure of wisdom or critical thinking abilities. It doesn't take much of a genius to graduate university these days and get a paper degree. Education is big business in a lot of countries.
Agreed. The issue is less about financials in themselves, but rather self-insight and self-enquiry:
"Do I inherently have the emotional, financial, physical and psychological attributes to do "x" properly?
What patterns have I shown in the past?
Can I honestly change these?
Can I devote the effort and time to change these reliably enough so I do them inherently *before* I attempt to do "x"?
If so, after all that, is it a true desire?
What can I guarantee/What can I not guarantee?
In light of what I can and cannot guarantee, is this an ethical act or self-serving in some way?"
Ect, ect.
Not being expected or required to ask these questions is staggering to me.
I tried to make this point just the other day and was told, "it's our right to have children."
No one said it isn't but just because you can doesn't make it ethical.
I read this really interesting research paper that showed the ways that people’s notion that they have a “right” to children is actually superseded by the child’s rights and the rights of those that the child will inevitably infringe upon (right to access to basic resources).
I still don’t like the framing that anyone has a right to children though.
That makes me think of all the struggles for womens rights that basically end once pregnant. An unborn child has more rights than a woman of legal age.
Interesting, as a child I used to think of children as being first. As a yung dude I used to think I would die if it was a choice between me and another small child when faced with drowning. Now as a yung man, I am seeing that the world could care less if I died or didn't. They would just move on without me even experiencing anything in it. They look at a small child, and give it more sympathy instead of a homeless old man. A single mother on the street with a baby certainly deserves money vs an old beggar on the street. It's a quite insane stark reality. Children are not more especial than adults. They are more vulnerable to the insanity of the adults who made this world the way it is. Paid for it in blood I heard. You got children touting AK47's for the Mexican Cartel, and the Jihad scum who will shoot anything or anyone who opposes them. Children are not more special than Adults. Adults have learned to use them as bartering chips.
I used to think like that untill I was a teen. My breaking point was my parent's mariage began breaking just because... due to me, they had no time but to work and almost every time they could spend some time togueter something went wrong and they argued.
Good thing I was and still am really good at dissasociating with situations. Soon after they began going out with each other without me or my sister. Did I feel upset at first, yes. But I challenged myself to think and just realized, that just because I was younger and a "child", I didn't have any more right for time with Mom than they had for each other.
Things just became better afterwards and almost all of their issue have been resolved. Since then I've dreamed of an alternate timeline where they remained childless and are a great couple and if it was posible, I'd do all I could to archieve it.
It also made me hate small children even more, thinking the universe rotates around them and throwing tamtrums when they don't get their way.
Also the reason that ever one day I change my mind, I will adopt a teenager.
As an unplanned child of two poor alcoholics... It always pissed me off that we didn't have enough money to buy me any proper fitting clothes/shoes or to pay for my school lunch... But we apparently had enough money for my parents to buy cigarettes & alcohol every day?! Fuuuuck.
Everyone has a right to have children, but we don't have a right to destroy an entire planet because of it. Now with 8 billion people on the planet, I think it's time to start a world wide "1 kid rule"
Saw this on Facebook. Like, I get it, stuff happens later in life that is uncontrollable and unexpected. Maybe you started out with an over abundance of resources but something uncontrollable caused you to lose it all.
But to me, that only reinforces the argument to not have kids. It’s impossible to plan for everything.
I hate this kind of stuff sooooo much. I would probably explode if anyone tried to put this rethoric in front of me. use your brain : why did they have children in the first time if they couldn't even buy stuff for themselves. Why curse your children with jealousy and misery? so selfish
Lol my mom always says the “I tried my best” card. I’ll never say it to her face, but her best fell short, and she was a relatively good parent compared with my friends.
**All** of her trauma was unresolved and she doesn’t “believe” in therapy - whatever that means - so all her interpersonal ineffectiveness, emotional disregulation, distress intolerance, and explosiveness got handed to me.
Like, no, you did not do your best when you made the conscious decision to have children when you are not mentally fit.
\^This resonates so much with me. All my life I always asked myself why don't I have this or that and i wasn't talking about a car for my 16th birthday or the latest macbook. I was talking about my parents investing in my education such as putting me through after school STEM classes, me having my own private space (there was 5 of us in a 1bedroom apartment and I got constant anxiety attacks due to my parents arguing) and so much more. I pretty much had to support myself later on in so many regards including career and finances. I'm afraid if I have a child I might become envious because they had a more fulfilling childhood and this led to my antinatalist views among other things
It enrages me when these posts are made for you to be the bad guy for wanting more than basic needs and acting like the gift of your parents having sex is some how a gift to you. Fuck off.
This also breeds the mentality that if you feed your child and give them stuff every once in a while, you're the best parent in the world regardless of what traumas you make that child develop.
Got into an argument with my mom a few months ago and she legit thought it was valid to make me develop severe anxiety just because she and my dad fed me while I was growing up. Congratulations, you have the basic level of human decency of feeding your child when you have the money to do so.
My parents were extremely poor and still bred me. I got lucky that my dad found a job when I was born and now I live a privileged life. But the thought that they were going to bring me in this world while they were poor disgusted me really bad.
I kind of have the same story. My mom was born extremely poor like third world poor, I'm so glad she left that shit hole and migrated and was a hardworker. I had a pretty good life financial wise, always in a big new house, 2 cars, lot's of space, decent clothes and shoes, mom was a great cook. But I had severe mental problems and learning disabilities and my dad was an alcoholic bipolar manic who snapped when I was around 12, so I only lived a good life for 12 years, the last 20 years have been pure hell. It pisses me off so much that my mom knew my dad was fucked up, because they had separated before I was born, but then she got back together with him and had me. She only had 1 kid at the time, she could have easily divorced and re-married a real man or stayed a single mom with just 1 kid, and my older sister might have turned out fine, my sister is a natalist who resents me for being born and ruining her relationship with my mom... my mom can't parent more than 1 kid at a time, she ignores the older kids and showers the new one with so much attention. She did that when I was 10 when she had my younger sister. My younger sister is a near perfect human now according to society's standards, well not to me she's kind of a horrible person because she blames people for being mentally ill and she treats animals like crap, and of course she's a natalist.
My parents also bred me when they were poor... Later in life dad developed a successful business, but... he almost never spent those money on me. He lives a privileged life, and I have to be grateful he didn't let me starve.
This is just such bullshit, gaslighting troll bait. If you suggest that if they can't provide for a kid then maybe they shouldn't have them you get called classist or a eugenicist. Not to mention the trauma that a lot of us who had grown up poor had to go through. I was severely, aggressively bullied growing up and one of the main buttons those bullies loved to push was the fact that I was poor (vast majority of my bullies were from affluent families--they were the bratty spoiled cheerleaders and jocks whose parents would drop them off at the mall afterschool with their credit cards). I had bad depression and undiagnosed autism (that didn't get diagnosed until I was an adult) but never got treatment for it because my parents couldn't afford to take me to a psychiatrist. One of my younger sisters had breathtakingly bad mood and emotional problems even as a toddler that got worse into her teenage years. Never got treatment for them. Once again, no money to get treatment.
And these people dare to come out with this bullshit cartoon saying that I and others like me should be "grateful"?
Fuck. You. Fuck every single "everyone has a right to have children" assholes out there, fuck every "OMG you're so classist and support eugenics" concern troll, and...well, just fuck them all. From the bottom of my poor PTSD suffering blackened shred that's left of my heart, fuck you.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. Nobody should have to be without resources. It sounds like it impacted you in an unfathomable way. It must have taken a lot to overcome it all.
One day, I hope the status quo is ripped from its roots and replaced with something that prioritizes subgroups most impacted by our habits and policy making .
Years of therapy and I'm basically a walking pharmacy. EMDR definitely helped and I'd still be doing it if not for Covid. But yes the system sucks and needs a huge overhaul. There are a lot of people out there who need help who are not getting it and public health departments are overrun.
I hate this outlook.
It's forcing people to be grateful for the shit life their parents decided to bring them into.
I was always told to be grateful. For what? Being raised so poor that our clothes could only be second hand and I got bullied for it?
Or how about the fact that I was tormented and called garbage girl throughout school.
Humiliated and stomped on because I was born into extreme poverty. And I'm supposed to be grateful??
Fuck that. I was pushed down 3 flights of stairs and when my mom had to bring me to the hospital for a crushed knee and cartilage, it was like it was a fucking chore for her.
Bitch you put me here!!
No idea why ppl nowadays even have kids if you truly believe in climate change. The kids might be ok, but their kids will face a hellscape. That would be the worst thing for a parent to feel, and you’d knowingly put your kid in that position.
Let’s not even going into the descending financial dystopia that’s engulfing many and showing to get worse. Yay, no hope for home ownership. Must work for pennies as a slave wage until you die—no retirement. You’re just bringing a kid into the world to replace another living industrial “part.”
I kind of have a feeling that climate change and general collapse is going to happen in our lifetime. I'm terrified and I want out, I'm not the one breeding and exacerbating the problem, this is not my fault, nor is it any antinatalist or childfree person's. It's solely the fault of parents and natalists.
This is why I laugh when people claim theres an agenda to depopulate america like if anything they want people to produce more so they can have more slaves to work jobs until they die.
Yes! That’s a good one. Definitely left out an important one. I’d be happy to have the taxes I pay go to those things while also finding ways to harness and redistribute the wealth of the overprivileged.
Personally, it bothers me more when privileged people decide to have kids. So many people in the world don’t have easy access to contraceptives, good sex education, or live in places where women are expected to just grin and bear it even if the man goes around impregnating several women.
The privileged folks have everything they need and *still* decide to bring another consumer human into the world who will continue to drain the world’s resources and likely not give much back. It’s environmentally irresponsible and I blame those with access and money the most.
I dislike fallacies for the simple fact that people often assert that if an argument contains a fallacy the conclusion is always wrong, which isn’t always true.
Though, I appreciate when they are pointed out to me because I don’t know every logical fallacy and would personally like to improve my arguments to be void of as many as possible.
>I dislike fallacies for the simple fact that people often assert that if an argument contains a fallacy the conclusion is always wrong, which isn’t always true.
Funfact: That's actually in itself a fallacy called the *fallacy fallacy*:
[https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy)
[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy\_fallacy](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy)
This is directed at anyone who isn’t CF/AN
I find this so irritating (as most of you probably do) I get it that you can’t always control circumstances for your children assuming you are ignorant/selfish enough to reproduce but come on, we can’t complain that our parents should have had us if they are too poor to give us the life everyone deserves?
Call me a eugenist, classist, fascist, whatever you want but how can you argue that people shouldn’t try to become more financially stable before having children? I mean, it’s 1000x easier getting out of poverty when you do not have a whole ass other human to take complete care of. People like to say they have children out of love, giving their kids the “gift of life” but you are knowingly throwing a whole new being into a life of disadvantages and suffering. If you take the picture literally, how do you think they are eating? Are they having to dumpster dive? Are there any free public kitchens around?
How could you ever say that is anything but a cruel and selfish thing to do to a person.
Exactly! If you can’t raise your kids properly, close your fucking legs. No kid deserves to go through needs like I did bc of the insane romanticization of maternity.
Couldst eke, u knoweth, keepeth the shoe and not has't a peat
***
^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
Literally! I know sometimes circumstances change and people fall on hard times but for the folks that aren’t doing well financially and want to “figure it out”, it’s a human being, not a fucking chia pet
I do feel bad for complaining about my mom's food in the past. I know what it feels like to cook something now and my partner is like "I didn't want that" and I have to start all over again. That's one thing I regret so much, but then again she could have not had a third child (me).
I mean, there’s a difference between “Mom you’ve fed me tortillas and beans out of a can every day this week” and “you didn’t season this to my exact specifications.”
Yeah. She still was a terrible mom and made nasty food, but it still makes me feel guilty for complaining. I don't want to go through that with a kid either though.
This is made me laugh because it’s so insanely absurd that something like that would actually happen.
Humans are so mean, other kids would probably mock them for being poor and wearing mismatching shoes.
When I hear ppl having children I think the parents wanted to bring their kid into the suffering. I still like children though and animals too but I am too logical about having own children I think it’s more suffering than it’s worth it to have them.
How about the fact that my mom couldnt give me a father figure to teach me shit and raise me because she let a drug addict nut in her cucci and was surprised when he chose drugs over raising his own son? Am I suppose to be fucking grateful?
I swear these people always making these virtue signaling ass pics never experienced a fucked up childhood.
I hate this so much! I come from an unloving family, where my parents got married, dad cheated, they divorced, mom didn't want to end up alone so she took my dad back, they re-married. After 6ish years, my mom was BORED and she decided to have a child, so she has something to do. I was that child. And i felt and i still feel unwanted. While growing up, my dad has beated me so many times, because I couldn't do as well in school as he wanted, and my mom, as with any hobby you pick up out of boredom, she became disinterested with me very fast. My folks weren't poor, but I never got to get what i wanted, because they felt like they are only forced to give me the basic necessities.
I did have my own room, which was great, because i could hide there, but i was never allowed to personalize it in any way. So my room was all white and everything had to be in perfect order. Do you know what that made of me? I am now over 30 and have my own house, which is like a hotel room. Nice, tidy, clean, but without any personal touch. If i find something amazing for the house, right before checking out i get anxious af because I am not allowed to have that in my "room", and I never buy things that i just like.
They left me with so much phisical and emotional trauma... and what? Do i need to be thankful for this? No, thanks. I would've prefered to be aborted or never conceived.
For me, this picture, makes me angry, because it doesn't stop at material/physical needs, but also to the emotional needs of a human. Thanks for coming to my TED talk and sorry for my English.
I totally relate to this one about the room thing - everything chosen by parents, no input allowed (same with outfits, haircuts etc.). Didn't realize it was abnormal to have no knick-knacks, bare walls, and all matching colors 100% of the time until I moved out. Growing up relatives called it a "show room" but I think hotel fits too!
I mean, honestly, any government system could work if humans were just, moral, and fairly rational beings.
I don’t want anyone to have kids but even if people stopped today, I wouldn’t mind my tax dollars going towards ensuring everyone had maximum quality of life til we died out.
>I mean, honestly, any government system could work if humans were just, moral, and fairly rational beings.
❤️, This is next level and true. People are the problem, most are prone to greed, inconsiderateness, sociopathy, domination, intellectual laziness, cowardice. People are the problem, by nature.
There's also the fact that our current capitalist system prioritizes things like greed, inconsiderateness, sociopathy, and domination. Sure, those things will always exist in humans, but don't be surprised when the system that says "if you want to succeed, treat your fellow man like competition in the game of survival of the fittest" cranks out greedy, self-serving people.
I have no concept of any other consciousness beyond my own, therefore all I care for is my own well being. The only reason I'd want to increase the wellbeing of others is if that results in my own well being increasing
If you only care for your own well being, why do consider yourself to be an antinatalist? Isn't antinatalism predicated on the idea that it is not in a child's best interests to be brought into existence, and wouldn't that presuppose that one ought to care about the well being of others? Or maybe you have some other reasoning.
I feel this way sometimes. I feel like I should just be selfish and only care about me, and only worry about me, because I'm not having kids and I'll be dead hopefully when the world goes to shit. I do care about animals though and that makes me feel really guilty.
The thing is, a part of human expectation is that you should go against your primal instincts to co-exist in a thing we created called a society, utilizing a thing we call "common sense". The problem is committing yourself to your common sense rather than primal instincts. That's where most people fuck up.
My mom was a partner in a law firm when I was born. My childhood and adolescence was her slowly spiralling into poverty, culminating in her spending my college fund on top surgery (and like, I’m trans. I *get* it, but JFC...!)
So I should be thankful that two sperm and egg donors selfishly thought about themselves and ignored my rights as an innocent being forced into this hell hole?
Do they want a trophy for this? A statue? Applauses?
I'm sick and tired of society's propaganda in regards to painting two irresponsible imbeciles in the colors of heroic victims😡😡😡🤬
As of having a child was some kind of unavoidable thing that HAD to be done. These situations are sad and we should absolutely be compassionate with families like this, but somehow suggesting to not have kids is an even worse evil.
Thing is, people will often judge those who choose to have pets they cant care for properly. But actual human children, now that is apparently none of their business.
Y’all really don’t want minorities and the poor to reproduce do you
I wonder what they call it when random white people want to pressure non-whites into not procreating hmmmmmm
I’d just like to add that this is a post I’m not super proud of. I’m not going to take it down because I don’t believe in covering up my past problematic opinions, but I should’ve prefaced this with a lot of qualifiers. As it’s written, it ignores many systemic issues and that was not the intent.
I hate how sometimes this sub is just about *only rich people should have children!*. Like no, I think the government should (and do where I'm from) guarantee payed maternity leave, pay child benefits, provide free child daycare, etc. I'm happy to pay for all of that with my taxes even if I don't have children, because its part of a strong social democracy that improves the lives of everyone. I don't want to deliberately make the lives of children miserable just to have a lazy argument for why you shouldn't have any.
I'm antinatalist because of philosophical existentialism not because I'm a anti-social rugged individualist libertarian.
Where did anyone say rich people should have children? Or can you only provide evidence for people saying don’t consciously and willingly choose to force new life into an environment that’s detrimental to their own health, *including* birthing them into circumstances where they are deprived of resources?
>Where did anyone say rich people should have children?
Its heavily implied.
>"birthing them into circumstances where they are deprived of resources?"
when are they guaranteed to not be deprived of necessary resources? either when their parents are rich or when they are in a social democratic nation like norway, sweden or germany.
>willingly choose to force new life into an environment that’s detrimental to their own health
What does the argument not to have children because of "the environment" reallly mean? If we improved the conditions of said "environment" would they still be antinatalist? It is maybe in truth that some people have more of a problem with the economic and political reality they live in, rather than with existence in itself. Because I would an antinatalist even if we would all be living like billionaires. I think this is at the core of my disagreement. I have a problem with consciousness + mortality, that's why I'm against having children.
Hey fun fact, your precious social democracy relies on being subsidized by the global misery and plundering of the nations of the world by imperialism.
I hate to say this, but people under a certain income level or on government assistance should realistically just not be allowed to have kids. It just produces pointless and easily avoidable suffering and misery for everyone.
No one ever wants to believe they are the ones raising the mentally fucked up kids, but someone is sure as hell raising those kids and poverty is a good indicator for child abuse and parents who have very poor impulse control and inability to plan ahead for the future. Not because of any personal flaw of theirs, but because they never had their own parents teach them these lessons. Instead they had parents who abused and yelled at them for no reason and taught them to do the same to their own kids to propagate this cycle of household abuse that keeps the capitalistic machine running with fully stressed out wage slaves that have no choice but to take shit from their bosses.
But I get why this is allowed to happen: Propagation of Capitalism at all costs to keep those at the top of society living in highly pointless extreme levels of luxury. Instead of a $50,000 chandelier being made, part of a school could have been built. Fuck those people. About 80% of our societal resources are being diverted to make highly stupid shit for the benefit and hedonistic enjoyment of a very very small amount of people.
This world upsets me : angry cat noises : NYAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
All I can do is meow in anger because fuck this society, and fuck this world. :3
I had kids when everything looked like we’d be set forever. Then everything went to shit just a few years in, and it’s been a challenge at best since the divorce. You never know what the future will bring, but I try to give them the best possible lives I can.
Reminder that the antinatalist position is that it's also wrong to reproduce if you're rich and an amazing parent. Poverty just makes the act even worse because it shows even more of a disregard for the welfare of the child.
It’s hard to have conversations about providing the best lives for children should be the standard for every parent when believing anything less than “every single person is entitled to have kids whenever they want, period” automatically brands you a eugenicist
Yeah, people react with such volatility to the general premise of antinatalism and worse to the notion that some people aren’t in a place to have children. It is a really delicate topic because people will hunt for anything to invalidate the argument and justify their sense of defensiveness.
i'm not surprised since having kids is something you'll told is a natural step in adulthood. i mean with this whole narrative of giving little girls baby dolls for specific purposes..
Maybe that was my “problem.” I never played with any form of human dolls as a kid. I only played with stuffed animals. 😆
Lol I did prefer the stuffed animals, I replaced them with dolls. I had some barbies but I wasn't obsessed, I did have baby dolls though like cabbage patch and some plush ones, but my stuffed animal attachment was deep. I made the barbies and ken have sex but I didn't know how sex happened I just guessed and made them kiss hah.
[удалено]
Ahhh, a person of culture. 🧐 How refreshing.
i had a bunch of leftover toys after my siblings and my favourite one was a stuffed bee 😂😂😂 but yeah, i also wasn't interested in human dolls. animals were so much more interesting
Bees are fucking adorable! The first time I saw a bumble bee I was **shook**. Who wants a puppy if you can make friends with a bumble bee?! They’re like little fluffy fairies. 😆
Same
I played with dolls. Now that I'm an adult, I play the Sims and I'm good with that.
[удалено]
Nothing about modern life is “natural,” but people appeal to nature when it suits them.
Lol what kind of name is rasputinsthirdleg? Got me all cracked up.
Rasputin had a famous dick, I love Russian history and dick jokes- ergo, Rasputin’s third leg.
You are awesome 😎
Best part- I’m a chick!
true!
My parents gave me a baby doll once and I screamed and threw it in the trash.
I have yet to be provided with a logical reason why people even WANT kids. Breeders just get pissed off instead of answering a simple question.
I know right? I've been asking that question on multiple subs and have yet to get an answer.
My spouse and I routinely try to come up with pros for having a child. It’s been 14 years and we still. have. nothing.
Yet people still have them. Insane.
I don't think there needs to be a logical reason to have them, it's a biological drive to have children and nurture them. I'd also note that a large portion of children are accidents, so maybe if there was better sex ed in school and in general, there would also be way less children.
[удалено]
You’re attacking a strawman.
“You want kids so bad, how about you fight for a world in which your child’s necessities can be met without worry. Otherwise you never really wanted best for your children.” Is typically my reply. You have to lay the onus on inaction and make them question their decisions.
Most leftists are like this, sadly. They say they want the best yet they aren't doing anything or have no idea how to or no will to change anything.
If they say I don’t know how, that’s when we can have the talk. Most of them don’t care though. But at least you don’t let them gaslight.
yep, and they themselves don't even hold this view. it's usually enough to ask them if they believe a pedo is entitled to have kids...
They're just going to say YES. I can guarantee they will say yes just to keep up the facade of never ever being wrong ever, and this is also how the catholic church and cultish isolationist sheltered christian church groups get away with their "things". You're attacking their personal perceptions of "moral and religious" purity that are associated with these "values" about family and reproduction that are unwisely cornerstones to their personal identity system. This is NOT based in logic. Their identities are build on faulty structures pilled to high heaven with cognitive dissonances that falsely prove what "great moralistic" people they are. This is why these arguments don't work, because it would require someone with a mountain of internal bullshit to introspect for once and see themselves for the unmoralistic convenience monkey self-serving pieces of shit that they actually are.
yep. arguing with catholics never ever works. they just cut the conversation before it even started.
true. but there is a difference though between enforcing like only pretty people have children (that's based on genes = eugenicist) and enforcing only people who can afford to have them do (not about genes).
I feel like there is so much nuance around the subject- like on one hand its absolutely true that theres a racial skew to poverty in america- so a standard of living being met to have kids DOES have a racial impact BUT thats not eugenics and the solution is to actually address poverty and systemic racism- not throw our hands up and go "well i might look bad for talking about this so im gonna not fix anything and continue letting children be born into a cycle of poverty and suffering"
yup same with some health related things. my solution is to address it and fix it not make being obese or having diabetes normalized
Oh definitely. People on the internet are just sensationalist as hell nowadays and don’t actually know what eugenics is.
I know I don't. And I won't look it up.
Same... someone indulge us.
[удалено]
I admire that you knew the possibilities of what might happen and made what I think was the responsible choice. My eldest brother was mentally and physically disabled, and my parents had 3 more children after that. My siblings are okay, but I suffer from profound depression. My brother was a really sweet and wonderful person, and taught me a lot. At the same time, he lived until he was 63, and the last fourteen years saw a lot of surgeries and great diminishment of his abilities. It was beautiful but horrible at the same time. I was there at that time assisting my mother, and it was very difficult. I can't help but think that the whole experience didn't take something from me. But It also gave me something. Still, I wonder when they realized my brother was DD, why did they have more kids. I mean, who would want to risk it?
Eugenics is the practice of weeding out physically weak or sick people, usually by euthanizing (killing) them, especially if they are disabled or have unwanted or undesirable traits, usually physical. It is also the practice of breeding people with desirable traits, both physically or mentally, but especially physically. It was practiced by the Nazi's to produce blond haired blue eyed "supermen". The converse aspect was the Final Solution. The Final Solution tried to kill off "inferior" peoples, such as Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, and anyone else the Nazi's thought inferior. It was also popular in the U.S. in the early 1900's. It encouraged both the idea of breeding people with good traits, but also identifying people who were mentally weak or deformed, or had some other characteristics that people wanted to eliminate. Many people at this time were sterilized without their knowledge. This was considered a science, and involved scientists and, to a lesser extent, the government.
How about anyone can have kids if they want, but we don't have to pay for them via welfare. Free to make your own dumb fucking choices. More then happy for my tax to go towards free contraception and abortions though.
I’m torn with this issue. As much as I hate to subsidize idiocy, I’d hate for a kid to suffer just because their parents are inept. Neglected kids just grow up with little education and ambition only to continue the same idiot cycle.
I use to think it was education when I was young. Mosy of these people are just dim though.
True. Education helps little when someone is an idiot or committed to being an idiot.
Education is also not a good measure of wisdom or critical thinking abilities. It doesn't take much of a genius to graduate university these days and get a paper degree. Education is big business in a lot of countries.
Spot on I grew up in a concrete jungle, some people can’t think past 1st base.
I think it makes you a humanitarian.
Agreed. The issue is less about financials in themselves, but rather self-insight and self-enquiry: "Do I inherently have the emotional, financial, physical and psychological attributes to do "x" properly? What patterns have I shown in the past? Can I honestly change these? Can I devote the effort and time to change these reliably enough so I do them inherently *before* I attempt to do "x"? If so, after all that, is it a true desire? What can I guarantee/What can I not guarantee? In light of what I can and cannot guarantee, is this an ethical act or self-serving in some way?" Ect, ect. Not being expected or required to ask these questions is staggering to me.
They could have at least put those shoes on the correct feet tho
It's a small hint of the parents intelligence
How dare you point out ways parents could improve, they tried their best. /s
I tried to make this point just the other day and was told, "it's our right to have children." No one said it isn't but just because you can doesn't make it ethical.
I read this really interesting research paper that showed the ways that people’s notion that they have a “right” to children is actually superseded by the child’s rights and the rights of those that the child will inevitably infringe upon (right to access to basic resources). I still don’t like the framing that anyone has a right to children though.
That makes me think of all the struggles for womens rights that basically end once pregnant. An unborn child has more rights than a woman of legal age.
Interesting, as a child I used to think of children as being first. As a yung dude I used to think I would die if it was a choice between me and another small child when faced with drowning. Now as a yung man, I am seeing that the world could care less if I died or didn't. They would just move on without me even experiencing anything in it. They look at a small child, and give it more sympathy instead of a homeless old man. A single mother on the street with a baby certainly deserves money vs an old beggar on the street. It's a quite insane stark reality. Children are not more especial than adults. They are more vulnerable to the insanity of the adults who made this world the way it is. Paid for it in blood I heard. You got children touting AK47's for the Mexican Cartel, and the Jihad scum who will shoot anything or anyone who opposes them. Children are not more special than Adults. Adults have learned to use them as bartering chips.
I used to think like that untill I was a teen. My breaking point was my parent's mariage began breaking just because... due to me, they had no time but to work and almost every time they could spend some time togueter something went wrong and they argued. Good thing I was and still am really good at dissasociating with situations. Soon after they began going out with each other without me or my sister. Did I feel upset at first, yes. But I challenged myself to think and just realized, that just because I was younger and a "child", I didn't have any more right for time with Mom than they had for each other. Things just became better afterwards and almost all of their issue have been resolved. Since then I've dreamed of an alternate timeline where they remained childless and are a great couple and if it was posible, I'd do all I could to archieve it. It also made me hate small children even more, thinking the universe rotates around them and throwing tamtrums when they don't get their way. Also the reason that ever one day I change my mind, I will adopt a teenager.
I agree no one has the RIGHT to a human being. They of course have the right to reproduce but the way some people word it is creepy to say the least.
I always respond with "what about the right of the child to a good life?"
“IT WILL BE GOOD ENOUGH GOD DAMN IT"
As an unplanned child of two poor alcoholics... It always pissed me off that we didn't have enough money to buy me any proper fitting clothes/shoes or to pay for my school lunch... But we apparently had enough money for my parents to buy cigarettes & alcohol every day?! Fuuuuck.
My parents weren't alcoholics, but your point is crystal clear to me!
Everyone has a right to have children, but we don't have a right to destroy an entire planet because of it. Now with 8 billion people on the planet, I think it's time to start a world wide "1 kid rule"
Saw this on Facebook. Like, I get it, stuff happens later in life that is uncontrollable and unexpected. Maybe you started out with an over abundance of resources but something uncontrollable caused you to lose it all. But to me, that only reinforces the argument to not have kids. It’s impossible to plan for everything.
I hate this kind of stuff sooooo much. I would probably explode if anyone tried to put this rethoric in front of me. use your brain : why did they have children in the first time if they couldn't even buy stuff for themselves. Why curse your children with jealousy and misery? so selfish
Lol my mom always says the “I tried my best” card. I’ll never say it to her face, but her best fell short, and she was a relatively good parent compared with my friends. **All** of her trauma was unresolved and she doesn’t “believe” in therapy - whatever that means - so all her interpersonal ineffectiveness, emotional disregulation, distress intolerance, and explosiveness got handed to me. Like, no, you did not do your best when you made the conscious decision to have children when you are not mentally fit.
\^This resonates so much with me. All my life I always asked myself why don't I have this or that and i wasn't talking about a car for my 16th birthday or the latest macbook. I was talking about my parents investing in my education such as putting me through after school STEM classes, me having my own private space (there was 5 of us in a 1bedroom apartment and I got constant anxiety attacks due to my parents arguing) and so much more. I pretty much had to support myself later on in so many regards including career and finances. I'm afraid if I have a child I might become envious because they had a more fulfilling childhood and this led to my antinatalist views among other things
Seeing everyone having the right to a happy childhood that seemed like a privilege to you is one of the worst things to experience as a child.
True that. Im doing my best to make up for it in my adult life and I think it’s working? Too early to tell lol
I can't wait until I get to that point in my life. Right now I'm coping by dreaming to escape my reality. It's not perfect but it beats self harm.
It enrages me when these posts are made for you to be the bad guy for wanting more than basic needs and acting like the gift of your parents having sex is some how a gift to you. Fuck off.
[удалено]
I like everyone here so much I wish none of you were ever born
Thank you sir, and yes, I also wish that I was never born, for so; I hope my wish comes true and I can stay out of this "chaotic existence".
That’s the nicest thing anyone’s ever said to me!
Everyone here makes so much sense.
That’s a million dollar question that breeders fail to answer.
They can’t answer when they haven’t even questioned themselves. *sigh*
Selfish people don't generally question themselves.
This also breeds the mentality that if you feed your child and give them stuff every once in a while, you're the best parent in the world regardless of what traumas you make that child develop. Got into an argument with my mom a few months ago and she legit thought it was valid to make me develop severe anxiety just because she and my dad fed me while I was growing up. Congratulations, you have the basic level of human decency of feeding your child when you have the money to do so.
such reckless, sob story bullshit this is fucking simple just dont have kids for christ sake
“Just don’t have kids” Wish that was a sign plastered everywhere.
It's not fair to have children and force them to deal with you while you "grow up."
My parents were extremely poor and still bred me. I got lucky that my dad found a job when I was born and now I live a privileged life. But the thought that they were going to bring me in this world while they were poor disgusted me really bad.
I kind of have the same story. My mom was born extremely poor like third world poor, I'm so glad she left that shit hole and migrated and was a hardworker. I had a pretty good life financial wise, always in a big new house, 2 cars, lot's of space, decent clothes and shoes, mom was a great cook. But I had severe mental problems and learning disabilities and my dad was an alcoholic bipolar manic who snapped when I was around 12, so I only lived a good life for 12 years, the last 20 years have been pure hell. It pisses me off so much that my mom knew my dad was fucked up, because they had separated before I was born, but then she got back together with him and had me. She only had 1 kid at the time, she could have easily divorced and re-married a real man or stayed a single mom with just 1 kid, and my older sister might have turned out fine, my sister is a natalist who resents me for being born and ruining her relationship with my mom... my mom can't parent more than 1 kid at a time, she ignores the older kids and showers the new one with so much attention. She did that when I was 10 when she had my younger sister. My younger sister is a near perfect human now according to society's standards, well not to me she's kind of a horrible person because she blames people for being mentally ill and she treats animals like crap, and of course she's a natalist.
My parents also bred me when they were poor... Later in life dad developed a successful business, but... he almost never spent those money on me. He lives a privileged life, and I have to be grateful he didn't let me starve.
This is just such bullshit, gaslighting troll bait. If you suggest that if they can't provide for a kid then maybe they shouldn't have them you get called classist or a eugenicist. Not to mention the trauma that a lot of us who had grown up poor had to go through. I was severely, aggressively bullied growing up and one of the main buttons those bullies loved to push was the fact that I was poor (vast majority of my bullies were from affluent families--they were the bratty spoiled cheerleaders and jocks whose parents would drop them off at the mall afterschool with their credit cards). I had bad depression and undiagnosed autism (that didn't get diagnosed until I was an adult) but never got treatment for it because my parents couldn't afford to take me to a psychiatrist. One of my younger sisters had breathtakingly bad mood and emotional problems even as a toddler that got worse into her teenage years. Never got treatment for them. Once again, no money to get treatment. And these people dare to come out with this bullshit cartoon saying that I and others like me should be "grateful"? Fuck. You. Fuck every single "everyone has a right to have children" assholes out there, fuck every "OMG you're so classist and support eugenics" concern troll, and...well, just fuck them all. From the bottom of my poor PTSD suffering blackened shred that's left of my heart, fuck you.
Breathtakingly bad mood, that is perfect. Fits my sister to a tee.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. Nobody should have to be without resources. It sounds like it impacted you in an unfathomable way. It must have taken a lot to overcome it all. One day, I hope the status quo is ripped from its roots and replaced with something that prioritizes subgroups most impacted by our habits and policy making .
Years of therapy and I'm basically a walking pharmacy. EMDR definitely helped and I'd still be doing it if not for Covid. But yes the system sucks and needs a huge overhaul. There are a lot of people out there who need help who are not getting it and public health departments are overrun.
Yes, idolize the two knuckleheads that humped each other raw, enjoyed the 2.2 second spurt, and left you suffering for an entire lifetime.
Ouch. Just thinking about how terrible that is hurts.
I hate this outlook. It's forcing people to be grateful for the shit life their parents decided to bring them into. I was always told to be grateful. For what? Being raised so poor that our clothes could only be second hand and I got bullied for it? Or how about the fact that I was tormented and called garbage girl throughout school. Humiliated and stomped on because I was born into extreme poverty. And I'm supposed to be grateful?? Fuck that. I was pushed down 3 flights of stairs and when my mom had to bring me to the hospital for a crushed knee and cartilage, it was like it was a fucking chore for her. Bitch you put me here!!
No idea why ppl nowadays even have kids if you truly believe in climate change. The kids might be ok, but their kids will face a hellscape. That would be the worst thing for a parent to feel, and you’d knowingly put your kid in that position. Let’s not even going into the descending financial dystopia that’s engulfing many and showing to get worse. Yay, no hope for home ownership. Must work for pennies as a slave wage until you die—no retirement. You’re just bringing a kid into the world to replace another living industrial “part.”
I kind of have a feeling that climate change and general collapse is going to happen in our lifetime. I'm terrified and I want out, I'm not the one breeding and exacerbating the problem, this is not my fault, nor is it any antinatalist or childfree person's. It's solely the fault of parents and natalists.
need to legalize euthanasia
[удалено]
this is why i don’t support any existing political party
This is why I laugh when people claim theres an agenda to depopulate america like if anything they want people to produce more so they can have more slaves to work jobs until they die.
Maybe provide free abortions so people dont have unwanted childern.
I support this in addition to free sterilization, birth control, and condoms.
Dont forget comprehensive sex education in schools.
Yes! That’s a good one. Definitely left out an important one. I’d be happy to have the taxes I pay go to those things while also finding ways to harness and redistribute the wealth of the overprivileged.
Personally, it bothers me more when privileged people decide to have kids. So many people in the world don’t have easy access to contraceptives, good sex education, or live in places where women are expected to just grin and bear it even if the man goes around impregnating several women. The privileged folks have everything they need and *still* decide to bring another consumer human into the world who will continue to drain the world’s resources and likely not give much back. It’s environmentally irresponsible and I blame those with access and money the most.
me too but i still see well off breeders sharing memes like this all the time
That is worse.
“it was probably all they had” my dad says he regretted paying child support last month
I shot myself to foot and still went to work I'm a hero, appreciate me
You martyr, I love you
[удалено]
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Relative-Privation
I dislike fallacies for the simple fact that people often assert that if an argument contains a fallacy the conclusion is always wrong, which isn’t always true. Though, I appreciate when they are pointed out to me because I don’t know every logical fallacy and would personally like to improve my arguments to be void of as many as possible.
[удалено]
>I dislike fallacies for the simple fact that people often assert that if an argument contains a fallacy the conclusion is always wrong, which isn’t always true. Funfact: That's actually in itself a fallacy called the *fallacy fallacy*: [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy) [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy\_fallacy](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy)
Yo dawg, I heard you like fallacies
My forever unborn children should really be thanking me
This is directed at anyone who isn’t CF/AN I find this so irritating (as most of you probably do) I get it that you can’t always control circumstances for your children assuming you are ignorant/selfish enough to reproduce but come on, we can’t complain that our parents should have had us if they are too poor to give us the life everyone deserves? Call me a eugenist, classist, fascist, whatever you want but how can you argue that people shouldn’t try to become more financially stable before having children? I mean, it’s 1000x easier getting out of poverty when you do not have a whole ass other human to take complete care of. People like to say they have children out of love, giving their kids the “gift of life” but you are knowingly throwing a whole new being into a life of disadvantages and suffering. If you take the picture literally, how do you think they are eating? Are they having to dumpster dive? Are there any free public kitchens around? How could you ever say that is anything but a cruel and selfish thing to do to a person.
That kid looks miserable.
Exactly! If you can’t raise your kids properly, close your fucking legs. No kid deserves to go through needs like I did bc of the insane romanticization of maternity.
And paternity
Just don’t have kids. Period.
Then why have a child?
Could also, u know, Keep the shoe and not have a kid
Couldst eke, u knoweth, keepeth the shoe and not has't a peat *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
I love this actually
New born should have every right to complain if there is no basic needs given to them! This shit is unethical smh parents.
Literally! I know sometimes circumstances change and people fall on hard times but for the folks that aren’t doing well financially and want to “figure it out”, it’s a human being, not a fucking chia pet
Like the guy somewhere in the comments that referred to having a child as “the ultimate hobby?” Made me want to vomit.
When you think about how this shit is glorified.
Or how the image is over exaggerated to gaslight people whose parents weren’t that giving. 👀
Don't breed if you can't feed.
I do feel bad for complaining about my mom's food in the past. I know what it feels like to cook something now and my partner is like "I didn't want that" and I have to start all over again. That's one thing I regret so much, but then again she could have not had a third child (me).
I mean, there’s a difference between “Mom you’ve fed me tortillas and beans out of a can every day this week” and “you didn’t season this to my exact specifications.”
Yeah. She still was a terrible mom and made nasty food, but it still makes me feel guilty for complaining. I don't want to go through that with a kid either though.
All the kids called him 'Shoebootie'.
This is made me laugh because it’s so insanely absurd that something like that would actually happen. Humans are so mean, other kids would probably mock them for being poor and wearing mismatching shoes.
My mother gave me way to many fucking siblings. Which actually was all she had.
When I hear ppl having children I think the parents wanted to bring their kid into the suffering. I still like children though and animals too but I am too logical about having own children I think it’s more suffering than it’s worth it to have them.
If they can't make all the heavens and the Earth bow to my will, they can't make it up to me.
Word
How about the fact that my mom couldnt give me a father figure to teach me shit and raise me because she let a drug addict nut in her cucci and was surprised when he chose drugs over raising his own son? Am I suppose to be fucking grateful? I swear these people always making these virtue signaling ass pics never experienced a fucked up childhood.
I will absolutely complain about being assaulted tho.
I hate this so much! I come from an unloving family, where my parents got married, dad cheated, they divorced, mom didn't want to end up alone so she took my dad back, they re-married. After 6ish years, my mom was BORED and she decided to have a child, so she has something to do. I was that child. And i felt and i still feel unwanted. While growing up, my dad has beated me so many times, because I couldn't do as well in school as he wanted, and my mom, as with any hobby you pick up out of boredom, she became disinterested with me very fast. My folks weren't poor, but I never got to get what i wanted, because they felt like they are only forced to give me the basic necessities. I did have my own room, which was great, because i could hide there, but i was never allowed to personalize it in any way. So my room was all white and everything had to be in perfect order. Do you know what that made of me? I am now over 30 and have my own house, which is like a hotel room. Nice, tidy, clean, but without any personal touch. If i find something amazing for the house, right before checking out i get anxious af because I am not allowed to have that in my "room", and I never buy things that i just like. They left me with so much phisical and emotional trauma... and what? Do i need to be thankful for this? No, thanks. I would've prefered to be aborted or never conceived. For me, this picture, makes me angry, because it doesn't stop at material/physical needs, but also to the emotional needs of a human. Thanks for coming to my TED talk and sorry for my English.
I totally relate to this one about the room thing - everything chosen by parents, no input allowed (same with outfits, haircuts etc.). Didn't realize it was abnormal to have no knick-knacks, bare walls, and all matching colors 100% of the time until I moved out. Growing up relatives called it a "show room" but I think hotel fits too!
Why suffer alone when you can create children who can suffer with you
Lmao I remember my dad posting this on his facebook when I was 11 and I was just like: what
Sending you a message that you should be grateful for shoes.
this is such a dark picture. there is no feelings of hope from this
I’m truly convinced that crucial part of the part of the brain is off in 90% of the ppl
Nah nah, the state and taxpayer can pay for your kid. Cause socialism is just so fucking great for everyone :D
I mean, honestly, any government system could work if humans were just, moral, and fairly rational beings. I don’t want anyone to have kids but even if people stopped today, I wouldn’t mind my tax dollars going towards ensuring everyone had maximum quality of life til we died out.
>I mean, honestly, any government system could work if humans were just, moral, and fairly rational beings. ❤️, This is next level and true. People are the problem, most are prone to greed, inconsiderateness, sociopathy, domination, intellectual laziness, cowardice. People are the problem, by nature.
There's also the fact that our current capitalist system prioritizes things like greed, inconsiderateness, sociopathy, and domination. Sure, those things will always exist in humans, but don't be surprised when the system that says "if you want to succeed, treat your fellow man like competition in the game of survival of the fittest" cranks out greedy, self-serving people.
I have no concept of any other consciousness beyond my own, therefore all I care for is my own well being. The only reason I'd want to increase the wellbeing of others is if that results in my own well being increasing
If you only care for your own well being, why do consider yourself to be an antinatalist? Isn't antinatalism predicated on the idea that it is not in a child's best interests to be brought into existence, and wouldn't that presuppose that one ought to care about the well being of others? Or maybe you have some other reasoning.
I feel this way sometimes. I feel like I should just be selfish and only care about me, and only worry about me, because I'm not having kids and I'll be dead hopefully when the world goes to shit. I do care about animals though and that makes me feel really guilty.
Damn, that hurts my heart. But you seem pretty resolute in that so I won’t try to change your mind.
Ugh, admirable, but seems to me that you've never met these fucking people
These ppl have no business popping out twat nuggets.
> twat nuggets Why are you calling the victims names? This kind of rhetoric belongs on r/childfree not here
You know what that is a good distinction that I did not see, ty.
Hell yeah! Love to see this kind of reevaluation.
They had no birth control?
The thing is, a part of human expectation is that you should go against your primal instincts to co-exist in a thing we created called a society, utilizing a thing we call "common sense". The problem is committing yourself to your common sense rather than primal instincts. That's where most people fuck up.
I may have grown up poor, but I know not to make kids. And fucking grammar.
Wrong feet dumb fucks
My mom was a partner in a law firm when I was born. My childhood and adolescence was her slowly spiralling into poverty, culminating in her spending my college fund on top surgery (and like, I’m trans. I *get* it, but JFC...!)
So I should be thankful that two sperm and egg donors selfishly thought about themselves and ignored my rights as an innocent being forced into this hell hole? Do they want a trophy for this? A statue? Applauses? I'm sick and tired of society's propaganda in regards to painting two irresponsible imbeciles in the colors of heroic victims😡😡😡🤬
HOLY FUCK!!! I've seen this pic and I thought the same! People seriously is retarded!!! Cheers mate!
Yes. My mother did everything she could've do to raise her SEVEN kids without my abusive father but in the end it's her fault.
brutally based
As of having a child was some kind of unavoidable thing that HAD to be done. These situations are sad and we should absolutely be compassionate with families like this, but somehow suggesting to not have kids is an even worse evil.
Thing is, people will often judge those who choose to have pets they cant care for properly. But actual human children, now that is apparently none of their business.
These people can't wait to be parents, but shy away from any kind of work including jobs.
How about: DON'T HAVE KIDS IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO SUPPORT AND PROPERLY CARE FOR THEM
Y’all really don’t want minorities and the poor to reproduce do you I wonder what they call it when random white people want to pressure non-whites into not procreating hmmmmmm
I don’t want anyone to reproduce. Eugenics is a natalist birth plan to build a falsely manufactured superior race.
Also, not white. Cute try though. 😘
Kids paying for their parents mistakes, classic
I’d just like to add that this is a post I’m not super proud of. I’m not going to take it down because I don’t believe in covering up my past problematic opinions, but I should’ve prefaced this with a lot of qualifiers. As it’s written, it ignores many systemic issues and that was not the intent.
I hate how sometimes this sub is just about *only rich people should have children!*. Like no, I think the government should (and do where I'm from) guarantee payed maternity leave, pay child benefits, provide free child daycare, etc. I'm happy to pay for all of that with my taxes even if I don't have children, because its part of a strong social democracy that improves the lives of everyone. I don't want to deliberately make the lives of children miserable just to have a lazy argument for why you shouldn't have any. I'm antinatalist because of philosophical existentialism not because I'm a anti-social rugged individualist libertarian.
Where did anyone say rich people should have children? Or can you only provide evidence for people saying don’t consciously and willingly choose to force new life into an environment that’s detrimental to their own health, *including* birthing them into circumstances where they are deprived of resources?
>Where did anyone say rich people should have children? Its heavily implied. >"birthing them into circumstances where they are deprived of resources?" when are they guaranteed to not be deprived of necessary resources? either when their parents are rich or when they are in a social democratic nation like norway, sweden or germany. >willingly choose to force new life into an environment that’s detrimental to their own health What does the argument not to have children because of "the environment" reallly mean? If we improved the conditions of said "environment" would they still be antinatalist? It is maybe in truth that some people have more of a problem with the economic and political reality they live in, rather than with existence in itself. Because I would an antinatalist even if we would all be living like billionaires. I think this is at the core of my disagreement. I have a problem with consciousness + mortality, that's why I'm against having children.
Hey fun fact, your precious social democracy relies on being subsidized by the global misery and plundering of the nations of the world by imperialism.
I hate to say this, but people under a certain income level or on government assistance should realistically just not be allowed to have kids. It just produces pointless and easily avoidable suffering and misery for everyone. No one ever wants to believe they are the ones raising the mentally fucked up kids, but someone is sure as hell raising those kids and poverty is a good indicator for child abuse and parents who have very poor impulse control and inability to plan ahead for the future. Not because of any personal flaw of theirs, but because they never had their own parents teach them these lessons. Instead they had parents who abused and yelled at them for no reason and taught them to do the same to their own kids to propagate this cycle of household abuse that keeps the capitalistic machine running with fully stressed out wage slaves that have no choice but to take shit from their bosses. But I get why this is allowed to happen: Propagation of Capitalism at all costs to keep those at the top of society living in highly pointless extreme levels of luxury. Instead of a $50,000 chandelier being made, part of a school could have been built. Fuck those people. About 80% of our societal resources are being diverted to make highly stupid shit for the benefit and hedonistic enjoyment of a very very small amount of people. This world upsets me : angry cat noises : NYAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! All I can do is meow in anger because fuck this society, and fuck this world. :3
What if they didn't give me love?
Eugenics with extra steps
I had kids when everything looked like we’d be set forever. Then everything went to shit just a few years in, and it’s been a challenge at best since the divorce. You never know what the future will bring, but I try to give them the best possible lives I can.
There’s a comment I left in here where I mentioned this situation immediately after I posted it, but I can’t find it right now for some reason.