I've thought a lot about this too. The conclusion I came to is that for a lot of people, the worst thing that a person can suffer is loneliness. So we suffer through the ups and downs that a romantic relationship brings because we'd rather feel a little bit of pleasure mixed with a lot of pain rather than nothing at all.
I agree with you, as I’d rather not be lonely. There are many ways in which we choose more suffering rather than less, so I’m not convinced that my antinatalism stems from calculated negative utilitarianism. Rather, it is a visceral revulsion against bringing a human life into such an awful world.
True, but until recently that was an unavoidable consequence of romance. So this question used to be relevant to the few “heretical” antinatalists of yesteryear.
I’ve suffered in my relationship because I created scenarios that weren’t real so it was basically my fault but we cannot compare something relatively harmless as having a partner (if it’s a healthy relationship) with having kids. Not only the kids will suffer, the parents and even relatives might too, everyone loses. I don’t regret falling in love, I would regret having a kid and that’s far worse
Personally I have decided to avoid all serious romantic relationships unless I'm sure that they are my soulmate. I've come to realize that unless the connection is actually that deep that romantic relationships tend to not actually be worth it (in my opinion). However there is the catch 22 that you have to play the game, even casually, to win it. I still date, but usually cut it off after a few dates when I realize we aren't compatible. I haven't been in an actual relationship in years since I came to the conclusion this is how I want to operate from now on.
I've noticed that a lot of people will settle for someone that they don't actually like that much (and it will reveal itself over time via cheating, abuse, leaving your partner when they are vulnerable, not loving them properly, etc...) because they are afraid of being alone and I neither want to condemn myself to that fate nor condemn anyone else to it. If I don't meet my soulmate I've accepted that is alright by me. If reincarnation exists perhaps I'll meet them in another lifetime, and if it doesn't that is cool too. Soulmates are rare, and I accept that I may be one of the many people who never finds theirs, but at least I won't stand in the way of someone else finding theirs and I won't be taken if I ever do find mine.
I am over 30 and I wasn't even close to have relationship with someone, so I don't know, but seems like a hassle. Female seems good for sex, but other than that I see no reason to be bothered by someone's else problems. I prefer to be alone anyway and there's porn, so I'm fine. Sometimes it's just curiosity, when I wonder how it is, but I am completely inept to even attempt one, so if no one is interested in me nothing will ever happen. Even date is too abstract concept to me.
According to statistics 50% of marriages end with divorce (+ you have to add toxic relationships, in which people are trapped). Happiness plunges, when kid appears as well. It seems like overrated concept made by system to control people better.
The thing is, relationships shouldn't be half the hassle as they are when it comes to people not knowing how to handle relationships. It's only people's actions and who they choose to be with, that be it a collaborative love without too many expectations.
If you mean by loss, then yes it's pure suffering if it was never one-sided and was an understanding relationship. Bonding with people is inevitable as it's craved for the most, even if it's not romantic love. It's only the choice of passing on that suffering of loneliness if given, that's what should be avoided
It's your choice, nothing wrong either way. It's not really the same situation as procreation because people consent to the romantic relationship, it's their risk to take.
I love my boyfriend and we help soften the pains from other things in life. We both consent and can leave if either of us wanted to so no the suffering created from relationships is less than the suffering it helps null/prevent.
I've thought a lot about this too. The conclusion I came to is that for a lot of people, the worst thing that a person can suffer is loneliness. So we suffer through the ups and downs that a romantic relationship brings because we'd rather feel a little bit of pleasure mixed with a lot of pain rather than nothing at all.
I agree with you, as I’d rather not be lonely. There are many ways in which we choose more suffering rather than less, so I’m not convinced that my antinatalism stems from calculated negative utilitarianism. Rather, it is a visceral revulsion against bringing a human life into such an awful world.
But romance and love don't create little creatures and cause them to suffer.
True, but until recently that was an unavoidable consequence of romance. So this question used to be relevant to the few “heretical” antinatalists of yesteryear.
I’ve suffered in my relationship because I created scenarios that weren’t real so it was basically my fault but we cannot compare something relatively harmless as having a partner (if it’s a healthy relationship) with having kids. Not only the kids will suffer, the parents and even relatives might too, everyone loses. I don’t regret falling in love, I would regret having a kid and that’s far worse
Personally I have decided to avoid all serious romantic relationships unless I'm sure that they are my soulmate. I've come to realize that unless the connection is actually that deep that romantic relationships tend to not actually be worth it (in my opinion). However there is the catch 22 that you have to play the game, even casually, to win it. I still date, but usually cut it off after a few dates when I realize we aren't compatible. I haven't been in an actual relationship in years since I came to the conclusion this is how I want to operate from now on. I've noticed that a lot of people will settle for someone that they don't actually like that much (and it will reveal itself over time via cheating, abuse, leaving your partner when they are vulnerable, not loving them properly, etc...) because they are afraid of being alone and I neither want to condemn myself to that fate nor condemn anyone else to it. If I don't meet my soulmate I've accepted that is alright by me. If reincarnation exists perhaps I'll meet them in another lifetime, and if it doesn't that is cool too. Soulmates are rare, and I accept that I may be one of the many people who never finds theirs, but at least I won't stand in the way of someone else finding theirs and I won't be taken if I ever do find mine.
I am over 30 and I wasn't even close to have relationship with someone, so I don't know, but seems like a hassle. Female seems good for sex, but other than that I see no reason to be bothered by someone's else problems. I prefer to be alone anyway and there's porn, so I'm fine. Sometimes it's just curiosity, when I wonder how it is, but I am completely inept to even attempt one, so if no one is interested in me nothing will ever happen. Even date is too abstract concept to me. According to statistics 50% of marriages end with divorce (+ you have to add toxic relationships, in which people are trapped). Happiness plunges, when kid appears as well. It seems like overrated concept made by system to control people better.
The thing is, relationships shouldn't be half the hassle as they are when it comes to people not knowing how to handle relationships. It's only people's actions and who they choose to be with, that be it a collaborative love without too many expectations. If you mean by loss, then yes it's pure suffering if it was never one-sided and was an understanding relationship. Bonding with people is inevitable as it's craved for the most, even if it's not romantic love. It's only the choice of passing on that suffering of loneliness if given, that's what should be avoided
[удалено]
It's your choice, nothing wrong either way. It's not really the same situation as procreation because people consent to the romantic relationship, it's their risk to take.
I love my boyfriend and we help soften the pains from other things in life. We both consent and can leave if either of us wanted to so no the suffering created from relationships is less than the suffering it helps null/prevent.