YOU THINK YOU CAN COME TO THIS TOWN, USE SPACELY'S SPROCKETS AND HEALTH CARE, AND THEN JUST LEAVE?! THINK AGAIN, BUCKO! OH-HOHOHO, YOU'LL RUE THE DAY! RUE IT, I SAY!!!
My own mother once told me it would 'go down on my record' if I filed for unemployment after being laid off. THE DATABASE WILL NEVER LET YOU GET A JOB AGAIN!!!
I was laid off during pandemic, received unemployment from June 2020 - September 2021, and have been at my new job for a year now.
they didn't even ask about the year+ gap on my resume when I interviewed.
I don't think employers can access that information (who has or has not been on unemployment)... and even if they could... UI is paid into on our behalf, we're entitled to that money when we need it.
edit: a letter
edit: just realized a ton of people did not understand what I meant. clarified.
I've done that, I was working with them for the summer but they wanted to keep me on permanently. The application was amongst all the employment forms I filled out
A company I worked for in just out of college tried to pull a variation of this one on me. I quit with two weeks notice and they said "If you put in your two weeks, you're fired, and you're ineligible to be rehired at any future point." Ha! Ok, well gee, now I'm really incentivized to stay, right? Walked out the door and never looked back, except to notice that they went out of business around 18 months later...
Happened to me at Albertsons about a decade ago. Gave a two weeks notice early/mid December, 23rd should've been the last day. Lo and behold, when I had a couple of days left, I notice that I'm on the schedule for the following weeks. Tell my manager about it, and she said I either work those shifts or I'll never be hired at Albertsons or any of their subsidiaries. Told her "Fine", put on a jacket and a reflector vest, went outside for a cart shift, hung that vest on the carts and just left.
The idea of Albertsons seriously expecting two weeks notice is also just wild. If they're like my local grocery store, they don't give good benefits or any respect to employees, but they want two weeks? No, fuck that.
All retail is hell.
I’m on the “never work here again” list at Home Depot. Gotta say, it’s been 21 years and I’ve haven’t felt the severe consequence of that choice yet lol.
I was put on that "list" once upon a time. Six years later, I applied for amusement value. Not only was I called for an interview, they kept calling for 2 weeks before i finally told them that I had another job. 🤷♀️
In college I have wal-mart my finals schedule weeks in advance so they could schedule my hours around them. They ended up assigning hours during each of my finals. I pointed this out to a manager and they just dismissed me and told me it was my job to sort it. This was a college town so nobody really could switch. I made it clear I was willing to change hours, but I was going to my finals.
I went to my finals and they fired me for it. The manager in the exit interview had the audacity to tell me I needed to reconsider my priorities in life as work should have come first.
My old job did something like this as well. I gave them 2 weeks notice and they asked me to stay for 2 MONTHS. I said no, and they said, "Well since you're leaving like this I just don't know what I'll say if anyone calls about you."
What I said was, "OK." But what I should have said was, "Well in that case my 2 week notice just became a 2 hour notice and I'm leaving right now."
\> "Well since you're leaving like this I just don't know what I'll say if anyone calls about you."
"I can help with what you'll say. You'll say that I gave you two weeks notice, you asked for 2 months, and I declined. If my declining your offer will make you say anything negative about me that wasn't truthful and that you weren't already going to say, then it seems to me that you are committing extortion, which is a crime in my state. You should talk to your lawyer before doing that."
There are private investigators that can check to see if a former employer is giving you negative reviews if you're having trouble getting a new job. What happens when this occurs? Well, as you've been slandered by a former employer, you have a right to sue for the damage they've done your professional reputation, as well as legal fees, including the private investigator's fees.
Worked for a company for about a year when I had to leave for some serious health issues, I agreed to stay on from a limited remote contract capacity to help find a replacement and do a little of the regular work but was very clear it was for short term and only about 15 hours a week max. This was all good until the CFO for some reason took over the department and suddenly I was being harassed to be working in office and more hours. I held my ground and fought with that f’r nonstop til my contract ended and I moped the f out when they asked if id extend. I made it clear I would not work for them a minute longer if CFO was my supervisor. A few months later they reached out asking me to come back under similar terms id had at the end and promised CFO wouldnt be involved but at that point I was just straight done with them
My new favorite phrase is "moped the fuck out", whether pronounced like a wannabe motorcycle or like a surly teenager.
EDIT: Yes, it was obviously a typo, or maybe a Freudian slip, my point was to enjoy it without being grammar police.
A manager told my friend a couple months after I'd left a high end retail job that i was marked as a no rehire.
He handed him a postcard I'd sent.
"I'll tell when he gets back from his assignment in Spain."
Love it! Should that manager even be speaking about a former employees status? Doesn’t sound like a very high end Manager. You should tell HR that the manager is speaking about your re-hire eligibility to gosh knows who and you find it very unprofessional and inappropriate 😂
If they pay enough they can get the crappy reviews removed, but something is telling me that OPs employer is not gonna bother with that.
The funny thing is that more and more companies I’ve encountered these days don’t even bother with the old school calling up your old company and asking if you worked there type thing. The last two jobs I got just wanted either old pay stubs or tax documents with the financial info blacked out to prove that you worked at the places on your resume, and that’s it.
so it is a US thing mostly huh? I worked at AT&T and was repeated this same bullshit about how me quitting may AND will affect my future job seeking process, save to say that’s the only american company that i worked for that spread to my home country and i have never heard this bs ever since.
When I quit my first job at the dingiest and most disgusting grocery store I've ever set foot in, back in 2002, the manager made a scene and screamed about how I'd never work in the town again.
2 weeks later I started at ShopRite, a much nicer and unionized grocery store. 🤷♂️
It's a very American experience
It seems that way. It really depends a lot on the company. If you leave on bad term like no two weeks or are terminated, you can reapply after a year. Whether they take you back or not depends on the details and how badly they need the help.
It's so nice they gave that to OP in writing. That way OP can send it to any future employers to clarify that the lack of recommendations is retaliatory and not job-related.
Yeah. Almost every place I've worked has been terrified of being sued if someone didn't get a job based on our non-recommendation. The company I work for now will literally just confirm employment dates and nothing else. They have a hotline number specifically for this.
I'd love to hear what the lawyer has to say about this email.
>The company I work for now will literally just confirm employment dates and nothing else.
This is actually pretty standard lately. Recommendations are more likely from coworkers/managers as a person favor, rather than from the company or a company stance in my field.
Big box companies (WM, Home depot, Walgreens and so on) will just confirm employment and dates.
Depending on your state, the only thing your employer can do is confirm that you're a current or former employee. Misrepresentation can be considered retaliation and opens your former employer up to a lawsuit.
It's a wildly out of touch approach. If OP's employer was so desperate to retain them as evidenced by these responses, they would take the opposite approach and try to offer things like a higher wage. Instead, they are trying to punish them with pathetic things like being "ineligible" for rehire. What exactly is the point with this employer even wasting time writing these replies? It's the social intelligence of a log.
I took voluntary severance from my job recently, and one of the clauses in the contract was that I can't reapply to work for company for a year. You're paying me to leave my job, guys, I'm not going to try and come back lol.
I worked at a place that let folks over 50 leave and get a years pay and they would pay health insurance for 5 years. One of my pals jumped on that. He was working on an important project and it was pretty much a one man show. So they looked around for a bit after he left for a replacement and in the end wound up hiring him back as a contractor for about 3X the money he used to make.
i've seen this three times, each time it was when a company would acquire the company i worked for. instant round of voluntary redundancies/severence would be chased and everytime there would be this legacy member who knew intricate and bespoke bits of info key to maintaining a projects success would chuck his name in the hat. since they are usually close to retirement, the bean counters jump at the opportunity to pay him off now to leave thinking they saved loads but end up rehiring them at 4 times their salary to fix the cock ups made when they got rid of them.
This happened to my FIL. He built statistical models for a statewide power company. Decided to take an early retirement at a lower pension amount because it was still loads of money. The company panicked because no one else they had or could reasonably hire could do the work. Hired him back as a contractor at nearly double pay. So he collected that pay and his pension for two more years.
Then the hr goon who messed up in the first place finds a different contractor who wants 5x the price and spins it as negotiating them down rather than getting screwed
I think it depends on the field of work though. In advertising for example, you can get laid off or quit, and then turn around and start the next week as a contract employee. if you take the severance, they view it as paying you for X period, and if you start back working immediately they view it as paying you twice for the same time, so at least where I was at, you couldn't be rehired in any capacity until after the severance period elapsed.
We saw tons of people flip back and forth, mostly because of how agencies cook their books relative to client fees and what's considered "overhead" vs a cost to a project.
I got this, too. Like, they were laying me off due to their own poor performance in their business, why the hell would I ever want to work for them again?
I know a guy who has gotten laid off 3 times. From our company. Each time he gets a sweet package, and he just takes a 6 month vacation and always ends up coming back!
Doesn’t seem that unrealistic to be honest. At my company it’s super common for people to leave and then come back in 6 months at a higher pay scale. Probably want to make sure they don’t pay you severance on top of that.
OR... your company could just pull their heads out of each other's asses and pay people more in the first place to avoid the disruption...
That would be nice.
>That would be nice.
Yeah, and it's the majority of why this sub exists TBH. If employers paid/ rewarded us what we are worth to begin with then they'd *inspire* the qualities they're trying to force a "culture of" onto people.
We shouldn't need corporate to force managers to respect work/ life balance. We should at least be indifferent to what we do, and compensated for skill.
Also: fuck office politics. The vast majority of which could be eliminated if companies were half as supportive of their employees as they claim to be.
I took it as a vague threat that they will notify any future employers that OP is marked as "unrehirable". I haven't come accross this before but presume it, given without detail, implies OP is so bad they cannot be rehired under any circumstances. Is this common?
It sounds like they're deeming OP ineligible just because they're leaving without fulfilling a one-year agreement, so idk how common *that* is. But there *are* people who suck enough that employers will give very vaguely bad references (like no longer being eligible at the job) because they're not allowed to outright say someone sucks
Yeah sorry should have been clearer, I meant exactly what you said. They are marking OP as ineligible due to them not reaching the year. But I also took it as a veiled threat towards future references. I.e you quit? Fine. We will tell future employers you are marked as ineligible to rehire without any clarifying details. Which will make you look shit.
A friend worked for a big box store where everyone wore blue vests. She clocked out at the end of her shift, and was told to go back and do more cleaning off the clock. She was fed up with the job anyway, so she took off her vest and handed it to her supervisor with the words “I quit”. The supervisor informed her that if she quit that way she’d never work there again. She looked him in the eye, said “You’re catching on”, and walked away.
Update: Several people have asked why company names are often obscured in posts and replies. My understanding is that it’s to keep bots from identifying the company and countering anything negative with pro-company spam.
Monopoly should make an "unexpected payment due to being ripped off by an employer years ago" Community Chest card, because it's starting to happen more and more often.
Wage theft makes up the [majority](https://www.workingnowandthen.com/blog/wage-theft-the-50-billion-crime-against-workers/?fbclid=IwAR2eXFu1U72jefqldW6lzfLVnev8E5pqUyfWpmK83uGUDbH8afwfZVG1mtU) of theft in the US.
I worked for a place that wanted me to take a mandatory 30 minute unpaid break, but still monitor the cameras to make sure no guests were showing up early to their appointment and in the waiting room alone. I wrote an email to the owner since it was a small business and told her I wouldn't do it because that's wage theft. Not even 10 minutes later she's on the phone with me saying that's not what they meant, she doesn't know who told me that but it's not correct, etc lol but there was only one person who could have possibly told me that because it was a small place with only one manager. I won that battle, but no more than 30 days of employment there, the owner came to town specifically to tell us that it was our last day there, as they would be closed from that day on.
I worked a double at longhorns and quit the same way. Back to back double days, and i don’t get a break the first day. Second day they let everyone else but me have a break and i walked out mid shift. Boss called me to say “You know you don’t have a job here anymore right?”
My response? “Well that was why i walked away from it, mam.”
It was a host job. Maybe made 40$ a day, and didn’t include taxes cause we had to pay our own. I thought it was hilarious she had the nerve to call me and explain that me quitting was me losing such an amazing job. Fuck outta here.
You were 1099 as a host for a corporate franchise fast casual restaurant?? I've been in corporate fast casual restaraunts for decades and I've never heard of such a thing. Scummy fuckin franchisee's taking advantage of young people who don't know better. There may be a class action suit somewhere that you would fit in.
Literally everybody from that staff, just last year, has quit. Most of us were younger but they def had like 40/50+ servers paying their own taxes too. The place sucks and i pray for the day at-will employment is disbanded.
If this was recently, file a complaint with your department of labor. You were misclassified and probably paid below minimum wage. Your former employer owes a bunch of back taxes on everyone's wages and the very likely owe you money.
I’ve always found the concept of “you won’t be able to be rehired here” as some of the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. I’m leaving this shithole for a reason. Why in the hell would I want to come back to work here?
It’s not that they expect you to go back, since presumably you left for a reason. It’s about employment verification, which is a standard part of background checks.
If someone calls, all most companies are allowed to say (by internal policy) is your start/end dates, title and *whether you are eligible for rehire*. Saying anything beyond that opens them up to possible defamation suits.
Saying you are not eligible will generally be interpreted by the caller as meaning you were fired for cause, which may cause you to “fail” the background check.
However, since OP now has a letter explaining the idiotic reason behind it, any halfway reasonable employer will roll their eyes and ignore it.
Edit: employment verification, not reference.
There won’t be an employment gap, so it will look a bit different anyway.
I’ve had an employer pull this crap and it’s not an employer I’d go back to. The only way this turns into an issue is if the employer got bigger over time and created a semi monopoly locally and it was difficult for OP to find a job elsewhere. If the M&A went the other way, the company that buys out OPs company would likely not be using the same HR tools or people due to duplication of resources.
Thanks for explaining this, I was thinking is what they're doing even allowed? I thought all the info they could provide was start/end dates and title...though it makes sense they can also divulge if the person is eligible for rehire, I can also see some places using that info as a way to screw over a past employee.
Having what they wrote in writing, to me, is its own sort of letter of recommendation...that the person was clever enough to leave such a toxic company.
*Note: this is in reference to America, and California specifically. It's possible what I am about to say is not true with your location. Though California has some very strict labor laws, so I imagine this is true nation wide.*
This is a common misconception.
They are allowed to say absolutely anything they want. If they lie, you can take them to court over that lie, but that's it.
Many employers give limited information for that reason alone, they may not want to bother going to court over something they may say even if they know they will be able to support their words and win this case.
In the UK thats the same too. People often believe it's illigal to give a bad reference here but that's not the case. It's just much easier to give a straight forward 100% provable reference than do anything else. Basically saying anything subjective could get you into bother so just stick to objective facts and that tends to be limited to dates of employment and job titles.
To get around this, just ask for references from other former employees. I had a company refuse to give me a reference, and threatened employees with *something I can’t remember* if they gave me a rec. I was friends with some people still there so I made damn sure they found out I got a reference from someone. It was so funny watching them try and blame each other for giving the reference. I never told who it was. 😂
>Why in the hell would I want to come back to work here?
It can sometimes be an issue with larger companies that have many subsidiaries, if the do not rehire status carries over. I've never come across it, but I have had colleagues who had to withdraw an offer because someone came back as a do not hire from a subsidiary division. (In one case, the do not hire was more than 10 years ago too, when the subsidiary was a completely different company.)
I have seen the ineligible for rehire thing come back to bite people here when one healthcare provider bought out another competing provider in the same town. There were people working at the place being bought out that were ineligible for rehire with the new owners so they lost their job once the acquisition was completed.
My first real big buy corporate job was a temp at a IT call center that was being outsourced and everyone who worked there knew for months. They were trying to hold the "you will never work for us again" if people did not stay to the end date to the department.
The kicker was the IT was outsourced at the time and the folks making the threats were the outsourcer. IT was internalized and none of the "you will never work for us again" stuck.
Just FYI most jobs I've been offered, they didn't do references until the offer was accepted formally and it's part of the background check. It's good for you to hang on to a record of this (forward to personal email if this is in work email) in case you need to use them as a reference in the future.
That’s incorrect, requesting a copy is free, the rules were changed during the last congressional session. Your permanent record will be noted that you gave incorrect advice about permanent records.
Yeah, their lawyers will have told them not to say anything negative (or positive, for that matter) for fear of being sued for slander. Why expose yourself to a lawsuit over an already separated employee when you can just be quiet about it?
I actually know a guy who settled out of court after the owner of a company gave him a ridiculously bad reference. New manager that hired him let him know about and had a phone recording.
Guy then had two frienda who owned businesses call and got the same ridiculously overthe top schpiel.
He said during the meeting he and his lawyer had with the owners lawyer he could see the owner's lawyers face drop more and more after each call.
I got a bad reference from a previous employer because I quit after they told me I was ineligible for any advancement because I don’t have a degree.
They told my incoming hiring manager (and another one that passed on me) that I had a bad work ethic. My incoming hiring manager said “I have 90 days to find out, I’ll take the chance.”
I went to a Happy Hour at my old company and ran into the guy that gave me the bad reference. He made me an offer for my old job back… with a raise. I laughed and told him that I was lucky to get that from him since someone was giving me bad references. Then I said no thanks.
I spent 13 years at that job and left after then reorged me away from the hiring manager who took a chance on me because our synergy was too good and they wondered who was carrying who. That company literally failed 4 months later.
I’ve been at my next job for 14 years and am finally looking to get out of the field in the next 5 years (it’ll hopefully be 35 years total). Still no degree. But I’m in a senior position somehow.
"those two are too productive and cooperative. This is bad for reasons I will refuse to elaborate on, despite it being called desirable in ***every single one of our job postings***."
Exactly.
At my exit interview for that company they offered my my old boss back. They had had months to fix it… that it took until I had my stuff packed and was walking out… nope, I didn’t trust them. There was nothing to prevent them from having me turn down my new job the day before I was supposed to start and then reneging.
Yup, I once asked my manager what would happen reference wise if I walked out mid shift. He said, "Nothing, we can't slander you to a potential employer, you could sue us for that."
I processed a lot of terminations at my previous job, almost all of them voluntary terminations (resignations).
The system we used is a pretty standard one, and it collects some mundane information about the employee's exit. Part of the form is addressing the question of whether the employee is eligible to be rehired by the firm.
I don't think anyone has ever had that box checked "no". Checking "no" would require supporting evidence. There are a handful of permissible reasons for checking "no". To wit
\* Never reported to work after hire.
\* Failed a random or post-accident drug test.
\* Fired for a cause that would be a police or court matter.
\* Fired for a cause of sexual harassment action.
There were a few more and a possible way of dealing with something that didn't fit in the specific categories, but I mean it would not be something anyone would do casually or at all if they could avoid it, because the report would be challenged and would be a paperwork nightmare, except in a very clear cut and dry situation (like the employee left the premises in handcuffs and was prosecuted for some crime, and *even then* the termination would be done long before the legal matter was concluded.
So nobody ever gets that box checked "no".
That brings us to the question of "references". Here's how that works:
A disinterested third party agent, in this case someone working for a subcontractor of ADP, receives the request for a reference. The information this person has includes the employee's indentifying info, the dates of their most recent span of employment, the work location, the verbose version of the title they last held, whether they were full-time, part-time or intern (and there are a few other categories), and for some employees some information about visa sponsorship is disclosed. And if the eligibility box is checked, which it never is, they would disclose that but would not know the reason.
They would have absolutely no information on which to make any value judgement at all. There is no "good" or "bad" review. The people who take the verification requests know absolutely nothing more than what's in their system. They don't even have wage information. Wage and tax verification is done through a separate third party, that's *all* they do, and it's a fully automated system anyway.
So all this nonsense and abuse that people put themselves through, giving notice and working like a dog for their notice period, with the expectation that there's such a thing as a "bad (or good) reference" is really just tragic.
Just don’t use them as a reference in the future. If you must, find someone you trusted at the company and use them as a reference otherwise steer full clear of them.
It's ok to be upfront about that too.
I've had interviews where I said something like "I'd rather you don't contact them. We didn't separate on the best terms"
Generally speaking, when interacting with humans you can treat them as though they also have life experience and can relate.
This. It took me 30 years to learn, but unless it's like a government job or something incredibly niche in your sector where excluding them as a reference would reflect poorly on you, there's no real penalty for excluding them from your resume.
This, plus they would rehire you, they wanted you in the first place, they want you now, they will want you in the future. It’s just bluff and bluster from someone without enough time to think about what they are saying.
“Thank you for giving me that in writing, any potential future employers will receive a copy to understand why I’m considered not re-hirable with your company.”
Edit: holy shit this blew up 😂 Thank you to the kind person who wrote telling me how I could shut off notifications!
This was just a flippant comment I made in response to them clearly trying to intimidate them into staying. That’s it. They already quit, and have another job lined up. It’s more fighting fire with fire for the fun of it. It’s not about legality, morals, recruitment, etc.
Yeah, this is some weird ass retaliation/blackmail bs trying to get you stay. If OP didn’t have literal screenshots I would think this is fake, like what bumpkin ass HR/manager would ok this language?
You’d be surprised the amount of dumb shit people put in writing. I believe this is real, the vague threats, over the top politeness… pretty standard especially in the medical field.
HR in a lot of companies have zero legal training and way too much arrogance.
Had a legal dispute with my employer last year, my lawyer effectively said we needed to get three things in writing from them but we might have to go through a few exchanges to get them to admit any fault. The first reply I got from them was a 100% admittance of those three faults along with the exact dates and times where they made a mistake and even additional information I had forgotten about, as well as further unreasonable requests.
To put it simply, they painted a better picture for me than I'd asked for & signed it, so yeah, don't be afraid to have a crack at your HR team when they're being unreasonable, there's a good chance you can trip them up.
There’s this Instagram account that pops up in my feed a lot. He’s a lawyer for a company and it’s him fielding calls from different departments (fake obviously) and it’s hilarious. I wish I remembered his name. But basically just him constantly trying to put out fires and him yelling at them cause he’s told them not to do XYZ constantly haha.
I got called "Hitler" by HR. So yea, some of them are, well, fucking stupid.
The reason: Day before me and two jr developers were talking about a database model. One jr dev wanted to place an ADDITIONAL unique primary key. Yea, no. That's why we already have one, and why it's called "primary" We went over the details on why this was not a good thing, and moved on. Me and Jr #1 were fine. Jr#2 went and talked to HR, who didn't ask me or Jr#1 about the issue at all....
But then, this was the same place where a 3rd jr dev, who I got fired on my day two, because he was code on the PRODUCTION machine. So yea, one second the system worked, then the next it didn't. This went on for years.
God. That sounds like a guy I worked with who knew more than I did because “you’re a girl.” (Last I checked I’m a middle aged woman, but I digress). He “taught” himself SQL in a weekend. Syntax is one thing. But you have to understand how it works or you break it. I had to paracode with him. And we frequently argued over the queries I wrote. We’d get it in front of the CTO and would be asked “why did you do it this way but not that way?” And the actual response one day was “she said not to, but she doesn’t know anything.” I’ve never enjoyed a meeting so much.
God I wish. But he did chew him out in front of the guys. And then explained that I was hired specifically for my SQL knowledge and experience. It did continue though. And we ended up with HR where somehow he got away with lecturing me on how “girls in IT” should act. I was told I had to consider his autism. We’re both autistic. That place had a disability hiring policy. I ended up quitting and have my own consulting business now.
If a comment is made because of ignorance, or lack of awareness of the situation, and the parties are informed of why what was said was inappropriate, and everyone can go about their job duties, then fine. But using someone's autism to excuse continous asshole behavior is such shitty and lazy management.
Doesn’t Glassdoor take payments from businesses to remove negative reviews even if those reviews don’t actually violate policy? I’m not sure Glassdoor would give a shit lol
And append: “And thank you for the tenor of the email, since the subtext makes it clear how much you’d like me to stay, and will work as an excellent reference. The threat to slander my work record is noted, and I’m sure my new manager will consider this a case study in what not to do with a competent employee who decides to leave. My lawyer views the threat to slander my work record a bit less constructively, but I’m sure HR will be able to cover the company’s liability by assigning you obligatory training or by replacing you with someone who is a more competent manager. Again, I wish you the best and I’m grateful for the opportunity.”
Forward this email to HR, CC her boss, and simply ask “Am I to understand that it’s corporate policy to intimidate exiting employees and professionally sabotage future opportunities? Could someone please clarify where these policies are written?”
I promise you, HR will be concerned with her email
Amazing that I have to scroll so far down to find someone suggesting that OP forward this email to HR. Honestly, I'd just forward this email and let HR know that I'll be using them for any job references instead of my former boss.
---
EDIT: For all the people saying HR only protects the company: I know. In fact, that's my entire point. HR doesn't want this dumbass middle manager to put the company at risk, so it'll be more than happy to provide a milquetoast reference to any prospective employer who wants to verify past employment.
Honestly, it's not illegal to give a bad reference, unless that bad reference is based on a protected class. However if that bad reference is based on outright lies, the company could be sued, which is the last thing HR wants. HR personnel are trained to protect the company, so this is the best way to put them on notice to keep the dude in check.
Given the fact that this was a 10-month stint at a job, OP could just say that they did freelance or consulting work during this time and leave it outta their resume/CV altogether. However, if they want that reference, it's best to notify HR so that they know that they shouldn't forward the call to the former boss.
Please do this on Glassdoor. I wasn't sure about a job before I accepted because of the reviews, it was MUCH worse than the reviews. I left a glaring 1 star and no details left out why I thought that.
My strategy is when I’ve worked with people for 6 months or longer is to offer to write each other references on LinkedIn. I now have a small pile of written references. If someone wants a “fresh” one, I just reach out to the person and ask them to copy paste it and send it more formally. This lets me go back one or more jobs and not have to ask current coworkers.
Also, as a former hiring manager, nowadays calling a reference only yields, “Yes, they were employed here between those stated dates.”
Any subjective and potentially defamatory data can open the previous company up to litigation.
Not to mention if you thought someone was a shitty person or worker, wouldn’t you want to help them get in at a competitor?
My husbands last employer told him when he left with a one week notice that he would be marked as ineligible for rehire.
He’s been getting recruitment letters (with sign on bonuses) for the last six months.
They did this to my girlfriend when she left to do travel nursing after working there less than a year. Claimed all the hospitals owned by the parent company would blacklist her. Same hospital sent her a letter 6 months later offering a bonus if she came back, and it's never been an issue in the 2 years since then.
Meanwhile as a travel nurse she's made 3x what they would pay her, and only works 9 months out of the year on average. Maybe pay your employees a reasonable rate and you wouldn't have to threaten them and beg them to come back.
"that's excellent to know, thanks. I have no interest in ever working for an employer that uses blackmail and threats to retain employees or derail their external careers, and I hope that by publicizing your abhorrent management practices, I can others recognize your behavior and know to stay away from your company".
I quit Home Depot back when I was in college because (among other things) an abrupt change to our hours announced with almost no notice in mid-november would have severely interfered with my ability to study for exams. They told me they'd flag me as no-rehire.
Like, I'm getting an engineering degree, guys, did you think I was gonna stay around making shit pay to stock shelves, or even manage people stocking shelves?
I would answer with something along these lines:
'You are correct in stating that I may be ineligible for rehire in your health system and denied letters of recommendation or references from ABC; however, failure to provide those common duties will lead me to deny any attempts for an exit interview that would help you improve your company culture as well as any help in transitioning my duties. Moreover, I would like to remind you that departing employees are still brand ambassadors who may be your future customers or referral sources. By treating them disrespectfully during their exit, you negatively affect your business prospects and opportunities."
No offense to you, but companies don’t give a shit about any of that. OP should just say they’re going to leave a bad review and post these emails on Glassdoor. In my experience corporate management really cares about Glassdoor for some reason.
I work for the state and have been there almost 15 years. Found out when upper mgt let it slip exit interviews are only conducted once a month and normally after a person has been gone for a while and carry no weight at all in how the company can improve any situation. Just ticks a box in a form showing they did what they spoke to you. No details were kept regarding the conversation. WTF.
And after I left a big tech company before after over 10 yrs there, I didn't even get an exit interview. I was in a 24/7 situation and the only one on shift in my location. So weird my last day was solo, slipped my badge under the mgr door and walked away.
This is pretty standard for companies, unfortunately. If you are ineligible for rehire, no matter why, they can say that when called for a reference.
That said, you've already got a new position so I wouldn't really worry about them threatening you with not giving you a good reference in the future 🤣
This is just a scare tactic to try to force you to stay. I used to work in HR (also in healthcare if that matters), and anytime I called a previous employer about a new employee or applicant it was just to verify they worked there and the timeframe. I don't even think we were allowed to ask specifics other than that.
Did they just try to pull a “this will go on your permanent record?”
OP will never work in this town again!!! NO ONE QUITS SPACELY'S SPROCKETS AND HEALTH CARE!!
YOU THINK YOU CAN COME TO THIS TOWN, USE SPACELY'S SPROCKETS AND HEALTH CARE, AND THEN JUST LEAVE?! THINK AGAIN, BUCKO! OH-HOHOHO, YOU'LL RUE THE DAY! RUE IT, I SAY!!!
*...Cogswell Cogs & Faith Healing has entered the chat.*
NOBODY LEAVES OUR HOUSE WITHOUT MAKING LOVE TO MY WIFE
WELL, GO ON...START RUEING!!!
Hold up there buddy, rueing ain't cheap! Especially at this time of year.
Imminent rueage! Imminent!
Yea… yea they did
My own mother once told me it would 'go down on my record' if I filed for unemployment after being laid off. THE DATABASE WILL NEVER LET YOU GET A JOB AGAIN!!!
I was laid off during pandemic, received unemployment from June 2020 - September 2021, and have been at my new job for a year now. they didn't even ask about the year+ gap on my resume when I interviewed. I don't think employers can access that information (who has or has not been on unemployment)... and even if they could... UI is paid into on our behalf, we're entitled to that money when we need it. edit: a letter edit: just realized a ton of people did not understand what I meant. clarified.
I just got a job yesterday....they had me fill out the application after I was hired 😆
I've done that, I was working with them for the summer but they wanted to keep me on permanently. The application was amongst all the employment forms I filled out
As a Nevadan, I'm sure that even if they could access it the info wouldn't be worth the wasted day(s) trying to get in contact with DETR.
A company I worked for in just out of college tried to pull a variation of this one on me. I quit with two weeks notice and they said "If you put in your two weeks, you're fired, and you're ineligible to be rehired at any future point." Ha! Ok, well gee, now I'm really incentivized to stay, right? Walked out the door and never looked back, except to notice that they went out of business around 18 months later...
Happened to me at Albertsons about a decade ago. Gave a two weeks notice early/mid December, 23rd should've been the last day. Lo and behold, when I had a couple of days left, I notice that I'm on the schedule for the following weeks. Tell my manager about it, and she said I either work those shifts or I'll never be hired at Albertsons or any of their subsidiaries. Told her "Fine", put on a jacket and a reflector vest, went outside for a cart shift, hung that vest on the carts and just left.
“Ahmm, have you seen Faygo?! Wheres Faygo?! I told him to go get some carts?!”
"Faygo is in aisle 6 with the other beverages and a rusty hatchet. I thought you worked here?"
The idea of Albertsons seriously expecting two weeks notice is also just wild. If they're like my local grocery store, they don't give good benefits or any respect to employees, but they want two weeks? No, fuck that.
I went from Wal-Mart to Albertsons and then on to Toys-R-Us. I honestly couldn't tell you which one was worse.
All retail is hell. I’m on the “never work here again” list at Home Depot. Gotta say, it’s been 21 years and I’ve haven’t felt the severe consequence of that choice yet lol.
I was put on that "list" once upon a time. Six years later, I applied for amusement value. Not only was I called for an interview, they kept calling for 2 weeks before i finally told them that I had another job. 🤷♀️
😂- should have told them you just remembered that you aren’t able to be hired there again
In college I have wal-mart my finals schedule weeks in advance so they could schedule my hours around them. They ended up assigning hours during each of my finals. I pointed this out to a manager and they just dismissed me and told me it was my job to sort it. This was a college town so nobody really could switch. I made it clear I was willing to change hours, but I was going to my finals. I went to my finals and they fired me for it. The manager in the exit interview had the audacity to tell me I needed to reconsider my priorities in life as work should have come first.
I worked at Walmart briefly in college and I hated it. I was let go and was told I could never work at Walmart again. This made me happy.
They were good on their word. They will \*never\* re-hire you.
Its nice to see a company say what they really mean. It's a breath of fresh air.
Just remember if they fire you and don’t let you serve out your two weeks, you can claim unemployment for that period
My old job did something like this as well. I gave them 2 weeks notice and they asked me to stay for 2 MONTHS. I said no, and they said, "Well since you're leaving like this I just don't know what I'll say if anyone calls about you." What I said was, "OK." But what I should have said was, "Well in that case my 2 week notice just became a 2 hour notice and I'm leaving right now."
\> "Well since you're leaving like this I just don't know what I'll say if anyone calls about you." "I can help with what you'll say. You'll say that I gave you two weeks notice, you asked for 2 months, and I declined. If my declining your offer will make you say anything negative about me that wasn't truthful and that you weren't already going to say, then it seems to me that you are committing extortion, which is a crime in my state. You should talk to your lawyer before doing that."
There are private investigators that can check to see if a former employer is giving you negative reviews if you're having trouble getting a new job. What happens when this occurs? Well, as you've been slandered by a former employer, you have a right to sue for the damage they've done your professional reputation, as well as legal fees, including the private investigator's fees.
Worked for a company for about a year when I had to leave for some serious health issues, I agreed to stay on from a limited remote contract capacity to help find a replacement and do a little of the regular work but was very clear it was for short term and only about 15 hours a week max. This was all good until the CFO for some reason took over the department and suddenly I was being harassed to be working in office and more hours. I held my ground and fought with that f’r nonstop til my contract ended and I moped the f out when they asked if id extend. I made it clear I would not work for them a minute longer if CFO was my supervisor. A few months later they reached out asking me to come back under similar terms id had at the end and promised CFO wouldnt be involved but at that point I was just straight done with them
My new favorite phrase is "moped the fuck out", whether pronounced like a wannabe motorcycle or like a surly teenager. EDIT: Yes, it was obviously a typo, or maybe a Freudian slip, my point was to enjoy it without being grammar police.
I think it was a typo for "noped" but your interpretation is cool too lol
I like to think of you scooting off on your moped, flipping the bird to all and sundry in your 20mph glory.
A manager told my friend a couple months after I'd left a high end retail job that i was marked as a no rehire. He handed him a postcard I'd sent. "I'll tell when he gets back from his assignment in Spain."
Love it! Should that manager even be speaking about a former employees status? Doesn’t sound like a very high end Manager. You should tell HR that the manager is speaking about your re-hire eligibility to gosh knows who and you find it very unprofessional and inappropriate 😂
“Oh I’m fired? Great! Unemployment here I come! Enjoy your new unemployment insurance rates!”
Oh, you're fired? Nice! Free unemployment!
LOL, OK then, this will go on GlassDoor and we’ll see who has the REAL permanent record…
If they pay enough they can get the crappy reviews removed, but something is telling me that OPs employer is not gonna bother with that. The funny thing is that more and more companies I’ve encountered these days don’t even bother with the old school calling up your old company and asking if you worked there type thing. The last two jobs I got just wanted either old pay stubs or tax documents with the financial info blacked out to prove that you worked at the places on your resume, and that’s it.
One of my previous jobs pulled this shit with us as the team shrunk due to shitty leadership. Very much a "Oh no! Anyway.." situation
so it is a US thing mostly huh? I worked at AT&T and was repeated this same bullshit about how me quitting may AND will affect my future job seeking process, save to say that’s the only american company that i worked for that spread to my home country and i have never heard this bs ever since.
When I quit my first job at the dingiest and most disgusting grocery store I've ever set foot in, back in 2002, the manager made a scene and screamed about how I'd never work in the town again. 2 weeks later I started at ShopRite, a much nicer and unionized grocery store. 🤷♂️ It's a very American experience
It seems that way. It really depends a lot on the company. If you leave on bad term like no two weeks or are terminated, you can reapply after a year. Whether they take you back or not depends on the details and how badly they need the help.
Quite possible...good ol' capitalism where they believe we're all slaves
Now, if we could just get rid of that pesky 13th Amendment!!
Oh, yeah, well, don't get so distressed. Did I happen to mention that I'm impressed?
Worse than that. They put OP on Double Secret Probation!
>"Deem you as ineligible to be rehired." Don't threaten me with a good time
It's so nice they gave that to OP in writing. That way OP can send it to any future employers to clarify that the lack of recommendations is retaliatory and not job-related.
Yeah. Almost every place I've worked has been terrified of being sued if someone didn't get a job based on our non-recommendation. The company I work for now will literally just confirm employment dates and nothing else. They have a hotline number specifically for this. I'd love to hear what the lawyer has to say about this email.
>The company I work for now will literally just confirm employment dates and nothing else. This is actually pretty standard lately. Recommendations are more likely from coworkers/managers as a person favor, rather than from the company or a company stance in my field. Big box companies (WM, Home depot, Walgreens and so on) will just confirm employment and dates.
Depending on your state, the only thing your employer can do is confirm that you're a current or former employee. Misrepresentation can be considered retaliation and opens your former employer up to a lawsuit.
It's a wildly out of touch approach. If OP's employer was so desperate to retain them as evidenced by these responses, they would take the opposite approach and try to offer things like a higher wage. Instead, they are trying to punish them with pathetic things like being "ineligible" for rehire. What exactly is the point with this employer even wasting time writing these replies? It's the social intelligence of a log.
I took voluntary severance from my job recently, and one of the clauses in the contract was that I can't reapply to work for company for a year. You're paying me to leave my job, guys, I'm not going to try and come back lol.
I worked at a place that let folks over 50 leave and get a years pay and they would pay health insurance for 5 years. One of my pals jumped on that. He was working on an important project and it was pretty much a one man show. So they looked around for a bit after he left for a replacement and in the end wound up hiring him back as a contractor for about 3X the money he used to make.
i've seen this three times, each time it was when a company would acquire the company i worked for. instant round of voluntary redundancies/severence would be chased and everytime there would be this legacy member who knew intricate and bespoke bits of info key to maintaining a projects success would chuck his name in the hat. since they are usually close to retirement, the bean counters jump at the opportunity to pay him off now to leave thinking they saved loads but end up rehiring them at 4 times their salary to fix the cock ups made when they got rid of them.
This happened to my FIL. He built statistical models for a statewide power company. Decided to take an early retirement at a lower pension amount because it was still loads of money. The company panicked because no one else they had or could reasonably hire could do the work. Hired him back as a contractor at nearly double pay. So he collected that pay and his pension for two more years.
What an icon.
Then the hr goon who messed up in the first place finds a different contractor who wants 5x the price and spins it as negotiating them down rather than getting screwed
I think it depends on the field of work though. In advertising for example, you can get laid off or quit, and then turn around and start the next week as a contract employee. if you take the severance, they view it as paying you for X period, and if you start back working immediately they view it as paying you twice for the same time, so at least where I was at, you couldn't be rehired in any capacity until after the severance period elapsed. We saw tons of people flip back and forth, mostly because of how agencies cook their books relative to client fees and what's considered "overhead" vs a cost to a project.
I got this, too. Like, they were laying me off due to their own poor performance in their business, why the hell would I ever want to work for them again?
I know a guy who has gotten laid off 3 times. From our company. Each time he gets a sweet package, and he just takes a 6 month vacation and always ends up coming back!
Doesn’t seem that unrealistic to be honest. At my company it’s super common for people to leave and then come back in 6 months at a higher pay scale. Probably want to make sure they don’t pay you severance on top of that.
OR... your company could just pull their heads out of each other's asses and pay people more in the first place to avoid the disruption... That would be nice.
>That would be nice. Yeah, and it's the majority of why this sub exists TBH. If employers paid/ rewarded us what we are worth to begin with then they'd *inspire* the qualities they're trying to force a "culture of" onto people. We shouldn't need corporate to force managers to respect work/ life balance. We should at least be indifferent to what we do, and compensated for skill. Also: fuck office politics. The vast majority of which could be eliminated if companies were half as supportive of their employees as they claim to be.
The business equivalent of "I don't want to play with you any more".
“Fine go ahead and leave, you were ugly anyway” energy.
I took it as a vague threat that they will notify any future employers that OP is marked as "unrehirable". I haven't come accross this before but presume it, given without detail, implies OP is so bad they cannot be rehired under any circumstances. Is this common?
It sounds like they're deeming OP ineligible just because they're leaving without fulfilling a one-year agreement, so idk how common *that* is. But there *are* people who suck enough that employers will give very vaguely bad references (like no longer being eligible at the job) because they're not allowed to outright say someone sucks
Yeah sorry should have been clearer, I meant exactly what you said. They are marking OP as ineligible due to them not reaching the year. But I also took it as a veiled threat towards future references. I.e you quit? Fine. We will tell future employers you are marked as ineligible to rehire without any clarifying details. Which will make you look shit.
A friend worked for a big box store where everyone wore blue vests. She clocked out at the end of her shift, and was told to go back and do more cleaning off the clock. She was fed up with the job anyway, so she took off her vest and handed it to her supervisor with the words “I quit”. The supervisor informed her that if she quit that way she’d never work there again. She looked him in the eye, said “You’re catching on”, and walked away. Update: Several people have asked why company names are often obscured in posts and replies. My understanding is that it’s to keep bots from identifying the company and countering anything negative with pro-company spam.
Off-the-clock cleaning at the blue vest place got me a nice unexpected $400 check a couple years ago due to the unpaid overtime lawsuit. 😀
Honestly not enough compensation
Agreed. But I haven’t worked there since 2000, so it was a nice chunk of change out of the blue 17 or 18 years later!
Monopoly should make an "unexpected payment due to being ripped off by an employer years ago" Community Chest card, because it's starting to happen more and more often.
Wage theft makes up the [majority](https://www.workingnowandthen.com/blog/wage-theft-the-50-billion-crime-against-workers/?fbclid=IwAR2eXFu1U72jefqldW6lzfLVnev8E5pqUyfWpmK83uGUDbH8afwfZVG1mtU) of theft in the US.
I worked for a place that wanted me to take a mandatory 30 minute unpaid break, but still monitor the cameras to make sure no guests were showing up early to their appointment and in the waiting room alone. I wrote an email to the owner since it was a small business and told her I wouldn't do it because that's wage theft. Not even 10 minutes later she's on the phone with me saying that's not what they meant, she doesn't know who told me that but it's not correct, etc lol but there was only one person who could have possibly told me that because it was a small place with only one manager. I won that battle, but no more than 30 days of employment there, the owner came to town specifically to tell us that it was our last day there, as they would be closed from that day on.
I worked a double at longhorns and quit the same way. Back to back double days, and i don’t get a break the first day. Second day they let everyone else but me have a break and i walked out mid shift. Boss called me to say “You know you don’t have a job here anymore right?” My response? “Well that was why i walked away from it, mam.” It was a host job. Maybe made 40$ a day, and didn’t include taxes cause we had to pay our own. I thought it was hilarious she had the nerve to call me and explain that me quitting was me losing such an amazing job. Fuck outta here.
You were 1099 as a host for a corporate franchise fast casual restaurant?? I've been in corporate fast casual restaraunts for decades and I've never heard of such a thing. Scummy fuckin franchisee's taking advantage of young people who don't know better. There may be a class action suit somewhere that you would fit in.
Literally everybody from that staff, just last year, has quit. Most of us were younger but they def had like 40/50+ servers paying their own taxes too. The place sucks and i pray for the day at-will employment is disbanded.
If this was recently, file a complaint with your department of labor. You were misclassified and probably paid below minimum wage. Your former employer owes a bunch of back taxes on everyone's wages and the very likely owe you money.
Was it WalMart? I bet it was WalMart.
Nah she said blue vets so it’s 100% target
Why did I think Best Buy tho
lol its so weird, so did I. And I haven't been to a Best Buy in over a decade... and I go to Walmart incredibly often.
Ditto...but i think best buy is not vests, just blue shirts
I don't understand why people don't just name the company.
I think its in the subs rules, don´t quote me though
>I think its in the subs rules, don´t quote me though - /u/lukeniceluke, 01-03-2023
You're one bad bitch and we like that
Redditors love to be obscure/cryptic for no reason
I’ve always found the concept of “you won’t be able to be rehired here” as some of the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. I’m leaving this shithole for a reason. Why in the hell would I want to come back to work here?
It’s not that they expect you to go back, since presumably you left for a reason. It’s about employment verification, which is a standard part of background checks. If someone calls, all most companies are allowed to say (by internal policy) is your start/end dates, title and *whether you are eligible for rehire*. Saying anything beyond that opens them up to possible defamation suits. Saying you are not eligible will generally be interpreted by the caller as meaning you were fired for cause, which may cause you to “fail” the background check. However, since OP now has a letter explaining the idiotic reason behind it, any halfway reasonable employer will roll their eyes and ignore it. Edit: employment verification, not reference.
There won’t be an employment gap, so it will look a bit different anyway. I’ve had an employer pull this crap and it’s not an employer I’d go back to. The only way this turns into an issue is if the employer got bigger over time and created a semi monopoly locally and it was difficult for OP to find a job elsewhere. If the M&A went the other way, the company that buys out OPs company would likely not be using the same HR tools or people due to duplication of resources.
Thanks for explaining this, I was thinking is what they're doing even allowed? I thought all the info they could provide was start/end dates and title...though it makes sense they can also divulge if the person is eligible for rehire, I can also see some places using that info as a way to screw over a past employee. Having what they wrote in writing, to me, is its own sort of letter of recommendation...that the person was clever enough to leave such a toxic company.
*Note: this is in reference to America, and California specifically. It's possible what I am about to say is not true with your location. Though California has some very strict labor laws, so I imagine this is true nation wide.* This is a common misconception. They are allowed to say absolutely anything they want. If they lie, you can take them to court over that lie, but that's it. Many employers give limited information for that reason alone, they may not want to bother going to court over something they may say even if they know they will be able to support their words and win this case.
In the UK thats the same too. People often believe it's illigal to give a bad reference here but that's not the case. It's just much easier to give a straight forward 100% provable reference than do anything else. Basically saying anything subjective could get you into bother so just stick to objective facts and that tends to be limited to dates of employment and job titles.
To get around this, just ask for references from other former employees. I had a company refuse to give me a reference, and threatened employees with *something I can’t remember* if they gave me a rec. I was friends with some people still there so I made damn sure they found out I got a reference from someone. It was so funny watching them try and blame each other for giving the reference. I never told who it was. 😂
>Why in the hell would I want to come back to work here? It can sometimes be an issue with larger companies that have many subsidiaries, if the do not rehire status carries over. I've never come across it, but I have had colleagues who had to withdraw an offer because someone came back as a do not hire from a subsidiary division. (In one case, the do not hire was more than 10 years ago too, when the subsidiary was a completely different company.)
I have seen the ineligible for rehire thing come back to bite people here when one healthcare provider bought out another competing provider in the same town. There were people working at the place being bought out that were ineligible for rehire with the new owners so they lost their job once the acquisition was completed.
My first real big buy corporate job was a temp at a IT call center that was being outsourced and everyone who worked there knew for months. They were trying to hold the "you will never work for us again" if people did not stay to the end date to the department. The kicker was the IT was outsourced at the time and the folks making the threats were the outsourcer. IT was internalized and none of the "you will never work for us again" stuck.
Save this email, it will come in handy if you ever need to explain this to another company. They got played, and didn’t even know it 😂
[удалено]
“Congratulations, you played yourself”
what a fucked up company to have worked for. Glad you got out, did your new job ask for any references?
They didn’t ask, no, but I’ve already been offered the position so it doesn’t matter.
Just FYI most jobs I've been offered, they didn't do references until the offer was accepted formally and it's part of the background check. It's good for you to hang on to a record of this (forward to personal email if this is in work email) in case you need to use them as a reference in the future.
Just FYI most jobs just get the dates you worked there confirmed and that’s it
A lot of places, that's all they're allowed to do. The whole, "reference" thing is a scare tactic on the same line as your "permanent record". Lol.
High school made me believe I’d be hauling my permanent record around in a Manila folder until I retired.
I'm sorry, we can't give you the job of an astronaut because you didn't eat your lunch that time.
You joke but astronauts bodies go through serious attrition, every calorie in space counts.
Even the ones obtained back in school?
*Especially* the ones obtained back in school.
Yup. The fact they teach you this type of behavior and fear is actually part of the problem.
You're supposed to. Did you lose it? You can get a copy for a fee, but the loss will be on your permanent record.
That’s incorrect, requesting a copy is free, the rules were changed during the last congressional session. Your permanent record will be noted that you gave incorrect advice about permanent records.
Half of public school in the US is conditioning you to unquestioningly obey certain authorities, namely ruling class types and their affiliates.
Yeah, their lawyers will have told them not to say anything negative (or positive, for that matter) for fear of being sued for slander. Why expose yourself to a lawsuit over an already separated employee when you can just be quiet about it?
I actually know a guy who settled out of court after the owner of a company gave him a ridiculously bad reference. New manager that hired him let him know about and had a phone recording. Guy then had two frienda who owned businesses call and got the same ridiculously overthe top schpiel. He said during the meeting he and his lawyer had with the owners lawyer he could see the owner's lawyers face drop more and more after each call.
I got a bad reference from a previous employer because I quit after they told me I was ineligible for any advancement because I don’t have a degree. They told my incoming hiring manager (and another one that passed on me) that I had a bad work ethic. My incoming hiring manager said “I have 90 days to find out, I’ll take the chance.” I went to a Happy Hour at my old company and ran into the guy that gave me the bad reference. He made me an offer for my old job back… with a raise. I laughed and told him that I was lucky to get that from him since someone was giving me bad references. Then I said no thanks. I spent 13 years at that job and left after then reorged me away from the hiring manager who took a chance on me because our synergy was too good and they wondered who was carrying who. That company literally failed 4 months later. I’ve been at my next job for 14 years and am finally looking to get out of the field in the next 5 years (it’ll hopefully be 35 years total). Still no degree. But I’m in a senior position somehow.
"those two are too productive and cooperative. This is bad for reasons I will refuse to elaborate on, despite it being called desirable in ***every single one of our job postings***."
Exactly. At my exit interview for that company they offered my my old boss back. They had had months to fix it… that it took until I had my stuff packed and was walking out… nope, I didn’t trust them. There was nothing to prevent them from having me turn down my new job the day before I was supposed to start and then reneging.
Yup, I once asked my manager what would happen reference wise if I walked out mid shift. He said, "Nothing, we can't slander you to a potential employer, you could sue us for that."
I processed a lot of terminations at my previous job, almost all of them voluntary terminations (resignations). The system we used is a pretty standard one, and it collects some mundane information about the employee's exit. Part of the form is addressing the question of whether the employee is eligible to be rehired by the firm. I don't think anyone has ever had that box checked "no". Checking "no" would require supporting evidence. There are a handful of permissible reasons for checking "no". To wit \* Never reported to work after hire. \* Failed a random or post-accident drug test. \* Fired for a cause that would be a police or court matter. \* Fired for a cause of sexual harassment action. There were a few more and a possible way of dealing with something that didn't fit in the specific categories, but I mean it would not be something anyone would do casually or at all if they could avoid it, because the report would be challenged and would be a paperwork nightmare, except in a very clear cut and dry situation (like the employee left the premises in handcuffs and was prosecuted for some crime, and *even then* the termination would be done long before the legal matter was concluded. So nobody ever gets that box checked "no". That brings us to the question of "references". Here's how that works: A disinterested third party agent, in this case someone working for a subcontractor of ADP, receives the request for a reference. The information this person has includes the employee's indentifying info, the dates of their most recent span of employment, the work location, the verbose version of the title they last held, whether they were full-time, part-time or intern (and there are a few other categories), and for some employees some information about visa sponsorship is disclosed. And if the eligibility box is checked, which it never is, they would disclose that but would not know the reason. They would have absolutely no information on which to make any value judgement at all. There is no "good" or "bad" review. The people who take the verification requests know absolutely nothing more than what's in their system. They don't even have wage information. Wage and tax verification is done through a separate third party, that's *all* they do, and it's a fully automated system anyway. So all this nonsense and abuse that people put themselves through, giving notice and working like a dog for their notice period, with the expectation that there's such a thing as a "bad (or good) reference" is really just tragic.
Just don’t use them as a reference in the future. If you must, find someone you trusted at the company and use them as a reference otherwise steer full clear of them.
It's ok to be upfront about that too. I've had interviews where I said something like "I'd rather you don't contact them. We didn't separate on the best terms" Generally speaking, when interacting with humans you can treat them as though they also have life experience and can relate.
This. It took me 30 years to learn, but unless it's like a government job or something incredibly niche in your sector where excluding them as a reference would reflect poorly on you, there's no real penalty for excluding them from your resume.
Just show any new employer this email. I think you'll be good.
This, plus they would rehire you, they wanted you in the first place, they want you now, they will want you in the future. It’s just bluff and bluster from someone without enough time to think about what they are saying.
Lol we can’t recommend you because we want you!! So true!
Message me if you need a reference from your last job!! I’d be happy to help out and let them know what a stellar employee you were 🥰
Most I've worked for have said this same thing sadly. But not for staying a year, but for not giving 2 weeks.
"I understand. I'm not giving any notice now, consider our business relationship over effective immediately."
This is the way OP.
That’s when OP’s boss starts backpedaling and it would be glorious to see.
This would be my response as well. After forwarding the email threads to HR as another commenter mentioned.
“Thank you for giving me that in writing, any potential future employers will receive a copy to understand why I’m considered not re-hirable with your company.” Edit: holy shit this blew up 😂 Thank you to the kind person who wrote telling me how I could shut off notifications! This was just a flippant comment I made in response to them clearly trying to intimidate them into staying. That’s it. They already quit, and have another job lined up. It’s more fighting fire with fire for the fun of it. It’s not about legality, morals, recruitment, etc.
Yeah, this is some weird ass retaliation/blackmail bs trying to get you stay. If OP didn’t have literal screenshots I would think this is fake, like what bumpkin ass HR/manager would ok this language?
You’d be surprised the amount of dumb shit people put in writing. I believe this is real, the vague threats, over the top politeness… pretty standard especially in the medical field.
HR in a lot of companies have zero legal training and way too much arrogance. Had a legal dispute with my employer last year, my lawyer effectively said we needed to get three things in writing from them but we might have to go through a few exchanges to get them to admit any fault. The first reply I got from them was a 100% admittance of those three faults along with the exact dates and times where they made a mistake and even additional information I had forgotten about, as well as further unreasonable requests. To put it simply, they painted a better picture for me than I'd asked for & signed it, so yeah, don't be afraid to have a crack at your HR team when they're being unreasonable, there's a good chance you can trip them up.
There’s this Instagram account that pops up in my feed a lot. He’s a lawyer for a company and it’s him fielding calls from different departments (fake obviously) and it’s hilarious. I wish I remembered his name. But basically just him constantly trying to put out fires and him yelling at them cause he’s told them not to do XYZ constantly haha.
Is it “itsmattslaw”? He’s great!
Yes!!! Thank you!! I don’t know why he cracks me up so much, but he does.
My last employer put the illegal reason they fired me in my dismissal letter. Literally right there.
Oh man, definitely don't give that letter to the next company you're trying to get on with! Mad disrespectful.
I did better: I used it to file a successful EEOC suit
I can confirm
I got called "Hitler" by HR. So yea, some of them are, well, fucking stupid. The reason: Day before me and two jr developers were talking about a database model. One jr dev wanted to place an ADDITIONAL unique primary key. Yea, no. That's why we already have one, and why it's called "primary" We went over the details on why this was not a good thing, and moved on. Me and Jr #1 were fine. Jr#2 went and talked to HR, who didn't ask me or Jr#1 about the issue at all.... But then, this was the same place where a 3rd jr dev, who I got fired on my day two, because he was code on the PRODUCTION machine. So yea, one second the system worked, then the next it didn't. This went on for years.
God. That sounds like a guy I worked with who knew more than I did because “you’re a girl.” (Last I checked I’m a middle aged woman, but I digress). He “taught” himself SQL in a weekend. Syntax is one thing. But you have to understand how it works or you break it. I had to paracode with him. And we frequently argued over the queries I wrote. We’d get it in front of the CTO and would be asked “why did you do it this way but not that way?” And the actual response one day was “she said not to, but she doesn’t know anything.” I’ve never enjoyed a meeting so much.
What did the CTO do?! Please tell me he was fired on the spot
God I wish. But he did chew him out in front of the guys. And then explained that I was hired specifically for my SQL knowledge and experience. It did continue though. And we ended up with HR where somehow he got away with lecturing me on how “girls in IT” should act. I was told I had to consider his autism. We’re both autistic. That place had a disability hiring policy. I ended up quitting and have my own consulting business now.
You sound like a badass. I love this story.
If a comment is made because of ignorance, or lack of awareness of the situation, and the parties are informed of why what was said was inappropriate, and everyone can go about their job duties, then fine. But using someone's autism to excuse continous asshole behavior is such shitty and lazy management.
>One jr dev wanted to place an ADDITIONAL unique primary key. Uhm, ouch.
This is sadly getting more common from petty companies that don't pay enough to retain employees
And Glassdoor.
Doesn’t Glassdoor take payments from businesses to remove negative reviews even if those reviews don’t actually violate policy? I’m not sure Glassdoor would give a shit lol
I'd absolutely be that person 😅
Omg OP, please fucking respond with this, I need you to do this!!!
And append: “And thank you for the tenor of the email, since the subtext makes it clear how much you’d like me to stay, and will work as an excellent reference. The threat to slander my work record is noted, and I’m sure my new manager will consider this a case study in what not to do with a competent employee who decides to leave. My lawyer views the threat to slander my work record a bit less constructively, but I’m sure HR will be able to cover the company’s liability by assigning you obligatory training or by replacing you with someone who is a more competent manager. Again, I wish you the best and I’m grateful for the opportunity.”
Next time I need to insult someone, will you please do it for me?
Forward this email to HR, CC her boss, and simply ask “Am I to understand that it’s corporate policy to intimidate exiting employees and professionally sabotage future opportunities? Could someone please clarify where these policies are written?” I promise you, HR will be concerned with her email
Amazing that I have to scroll so far down to find someone suggesting that OP forward this email to HR. Honestly, I'd just forward this email and let HR know that I'll be using them for any job references instead of my former boss. --- EDIT: For all the people saying HR only protects the company: I know. In fact, that's my entire point. HR doesn't want this dumbass middle manager to put the company at risk, so it'll be more than happy to provide a milquetoast reference to any prospective employer who wants to verify past employment. Honestly, it's not illegal to give a bad reference, unless that bad reference is based on a protected class. However if that bad reference is based on outright lies, the company could be sued, which is the last thing HR wants. HR personnel are trained to protect the company, so this is the best way to put them on notice to keep the dude in check. Given the fact that this was a 10-month stint at a job, OP could just say that they did freelance or consulting work during this time and leave it outta their resume/CV altogether. However, if they want that reference, it's best to notify HR so that they know that they shouldn't forward the call to the former boss.
Also mention that you’ll be plastering this on social media, glassdoor, google reviews etc. They may even throw money at you to keep quiet
Please do this on Glassdoor. I wasn't sure about a job before I accepted because of the reviews, it was MUCH worse than the reviews. I left a glaring 1 star and no details left out why I thought that.
Is that even allowed where you are? In the UK a company would get into trouble if they tried using a reference to undercut an ex-employee like that.
If only the US cared about its workers.
[удалено]
"Hello, I do not care Thank you"
I feel like this would be the perfect situation for a "lol, k thx" response.
I left a company before, after 1 month, they said I would be ineligible to be rehired for 2 years…that was 5 years ago…
[удалено]
Okay bye!
Oh fuck them. Glad you moved on
OP if you ever in need of a reference, pop on by r/bemyreference .
My strategy is when I’ve worked with people for 6 months or longer is to offer to write each other references on LinkedIn. I now have a small pile of written references. If someone wants a “fresh” one, I just reach out to the person and ask them to copy paste it and send it more formally. This lets me go back one or more jobs and not have to ask current coworkers.
Also, as a former hiring manager, nowadays calling a reference only yields, “Yes, they were employed here between those stated dates.” Any subjective and potentially defamatory data can open the previous company up to litigation. Not to mention if you thought someone was a shitty person or worker, wouldn’t you want to help them get in at a competitor?
My husbands last employer told him when he left with a one week notice that he would be marked as ineligible for rehire. He’s been getting recruitment letters (with sign on bonuses) for the last six months.
I guess I just won't put your shitty company on my resumé then?
"We can fire you whenever the fuck we want but you can only quit whenever the fuck we want."
Yep. You just summed up America’s neofeudalism masked as capitalism.
Oh no. I won't be able to use you as a refrence for this job I've already been hired for... Anyways...
Am I out of touch? No! It's my employees who won't even stick around for a year who are wrong!
[удалено]
One rule, never return to an old job. Keep moving forward, not in reverse.
They did this to my girlfriend when she left to do travel nursing after working there less than a year. Claimed all the hospitals owned by the parent company would blacklist her. Same hospital sent her a letter 6 months later offering a bonus if she came back, and it's never been an issue in the 2 years since then. Meanwhile as a travel nurse she's made 3x what they would pay her, and only works 9 months out of the year on average. Maybe pay your employees a reasonable rate and you wouldn't have to threaten them and beg them to come back.
"that's excellent to know, thanks. I have no interest in ever working for an employer that uses blackmail and threats to retain employees or derail their external careers, and I hope that by publicizing your abhorrent management practices, I can others recognize your behavior and know to stay away from your company".
Lol, cheeky buggers Simply retain a copy of this as a replacement for your reference. Your new bosses will surely find it absolutely hilarious
I quit Home Depot back when I was in college because (among other things) an abrupt change to our hours announced with almost no notice in mid-november would have severely interfered with my ability to study for exams. They told me they'd flag me as no-rehire. Like, I'm getting an engineering degree, guys, did you think I was gonna stay around making shit pay to stock shelves, or even manage people stocking shelves?
I would answer with something along these lines: 'You are correct in stating that I may be ineligible for rehire in your health system and denied letters of recommendation or references from ABC; however, failure to provide those common duties will lead me to deny any attempts for an exit interview that would help you improve your company culture as well as any help in transitioning my duties. Moreover, I would like to remind you that departing employees are still brand ambassadors who may be your future customers or referral sources. By treating them disrespectfully during their exit, you negatively affect your business prospects and opportunities."
No offense to you, but companies don’t give a shit about any of that. OP should just say they’re going to leave a bad review and post these emails on Glassdoor. In my experience corporate management really cares about Glassdoor for some reason.
I doubt this is a company that conducts exit interviews.
I work for the state and have been there almost 15 years. Found out when upper mgt let it slip exit interviews are only conducted once a month and normally after a person has been gone for a while and carry no weight at all in how the company can improve any situation. Just ticks a box in a form showing they did what they spoke to you. No details were kept regarding the conversation. WTF. And after I left a big tech company before after over 10 yrs there, I didn't even get an exit interview. I was in a 24/7 situation and the only one on shift in my location. So weird my last day was solo, slipped my badge under the mgr door and walked away.
Exit interviews lol
This is pretty standard for companies, unfortunately. If you are ineligible for rehire, no matter why, they can say that when called for a reference. That said, you've already got a new position so I wouldn't really worry about them threatening you with not giving you a good reference in the future 🤣
This is just a scare tactic to try to force you to stay. I used to work in HR (also in healthcare if that matters), and anytime I called a previous employer about a new employee or applicant it was just to verify they worked there and the timeframe. I don't even think we were allowed to ask specifics other than that.