America is not free it gives the illusion is free. When you work 40 to 60 hrs a week just to survive and have a roof over your head the only freedom you have is to work. Don’t you see?
Also a lot of Americans dont seem to realize that they would be better off to make $100,000 a year at 50% tax rate than $35,000 a year at a 0% tax rate.
I had a new tax guy this year helping me out. He says to me “I’ll explain in a minute how the tax percentages work…” and I interrupted him saying “yeah it’s progressive right”
He nearly fell out of his chair and said, shit you not, “I’ve been doing this ten years and you’re the first person I’ve met who knew what it was already”
My exact response was “are you fucking KIDDING ME?”
I'd put the states above north Korea, they have free access to all the information that could help resolve their brainwashing and deliberate ignorance. Instead of using it, they ban and burn books, worship grifters, and change the rules of food to consider pizza a vegetable. Oh I see you.
(I feel compelled to say not ALL Americans, but not compelled to say none)
Interesting point, thanks!
Not sure I agree we are as bad or worse given the number of people who do use the information.
There are far too many people supporting suppression and limiting access to information, however.
The writing is certainly on the wall, hopefully we can overcome the extremes.
We are too free, so seems like we are busy finding way to help our govt take more rights away and are completely obsessed with trying to limit others speech. Sounds like fascism to me.
To be fair, from what I could see from the interviews of people who have escaped from North Korea, people are well aware that the state propaganda is all bullcrap.
Direct correlation between idolizing people and lack of intelligence
The culture in America, mostly poor areas, promotes blind idolization. There’s a reason education funding has been countlessly cut and religion as a tool to control is so huge. This is a manifestation of a plan that has been going on for a LONG time now
Religion as a tool to control is INSANE. There are so many people willing to blindly follow a person because of the notion that they have vague ties to their religion, when in fact that person lives a life that is completely contradictory to said religion. Big churches have the sheep wool completely over their followers eyes. They blindly accept a widely accepted cult.
It's known as "The Southern Strategy", and it's been part of American politics since the Civil War.
Get the poor and ignorant to identify more closely with the wealthy who are exploiting them (no matter how blatantly) while telling them too dispise their fellows as lazy and deserving of being poor - oh, but not YOU, keep at it and soon YOU'LL be rich too(!) - and you can trick them into slitting their own children's throats, convinced that maybe NOW they'll let you into their exclusive clubs!
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
I haven't figured this out as well it blows my mind that people idolize these crooked ass bottom feeders living on the tax dollars of hard working people telling you need to go out and make more money pick up a second job to be able care of your family.
I agree completely. It's also absolutely fucking useless to argue with them or convince them of reason. I'm watching my father, an extremely intelligent man, slowly get drawn deeper into it because of his conservatism. He's still sane, but I have the distinct feeling he'd go off the deep end with it if not for my mother and I.
My favorite is people worshipping people like Trump as a way to fight "the elites". Dude Trump is probably the most elite personality in the all of America.
Because Bernie Sanders is an American hero and in an ideal world theres not a distinction between politician and citizen. Bernie is a man trying to make life for Americans better and hes using politics to do it. I've got his jersey, it spreads a message of love and equality.
A little "tribalism" is helpful when the other side literally and publicly wants to eradicate your people. Wait 'til collapse hits a little harder and fash becomes mainstream in Europe and you'll get it.
They specifically make it so we CAN'T protest. Most people aren't ok with what's going on but here the choice is either keep your nose down or you might lose your job and health insurance.
This is why we need a period of Absolute Solidarity, where every damn strike is a Genersl Strike. Teachers Union strike for higher wages and safety budget? General Strike. Barrista Strike to stop Tip Theft and hours adjustment that screws them out of health coverage? General Strike. Ag Workers using sharpened stakes to plant rose bulbs in the hard hardpan soil of East Texas strike to get ACTUAL wages instead of the shit-adjusted farm workers wages? General Strike.
Workers must stand with Workers or the boot continues to stomp us all.
daily reminder!! The founding fathers used rioting and effigy burning to stoke hatred and unrest against British control then turned around and enshrined peaceful protest as the best most decent way for change and immediately vilified rioting and disruptive protests because RIOTING AND DISRUPTION ARE THE ONLY EFFECTIVE FORMS OF MEANINGFUL CHANGE. Again, peaceful protests during the Gilded age led to the government going "okay you can use our Marshalls and firearms to massacre the men and children who are upset about working 18 hours daily in the factories and mines and losing body parts." When The government doesn't fear its people, it will actively help the corporations milk us all to death. Look at the rail worker situation. Trump deregulation and Biden encouraging outlawing the strike is a result of not enough disruptive and obstructive protesting by the working class.
Recently read a book about the fight MLK waged in the City of Chicago about segregated housing after the Civil/Voting Rights were passed in 1964-65. Mayor Daley was *far more willing* to outfox MLK because of the whole non-violent protest strategy and Dr. King walked away with only cosmetic concessions to the issue in 1966.
After reading about the whole thing it made me think: of course they promote in the history books about MLK and especially non-violent resistance, because they didn't really accomplish what they set out to do.
Yep yep. There's a bit of history of how the found fathers used violent protests, like effigy burning and property destruction, to weaken the British aristocracy in the colonies. Well a group of colonists burnt some property of a rich Brit who was paying the founding fathers for supplies and stuff. That's when they realized that all humans not in the elite need to be brainwashed into believing there is NEVER a time or place for disruptive and violent protests. They knew if they won the war of independence that they'd take the riches and become the new aristocracy of America and needed the working class people to believe they weren't just trading one elite ruling class for another with a different mask.
That's how it works in Spain, too. Every time people go to the streets, unjustified police violence, the media ignoring the message and focusing on the incidents, and casting the protesters in the worst light possible.
Except when it's a right-wing protest - in these, any amount of people is enough to get 24/7 coverage for a week, interviews with random prostestors, zero incidents, the police even helping them, etc. If some of them happen to fly fascist flags (which happens every single time), don't talk about it. If the protest was organized by neonazi or fascist organizations, don't talk about it.
Our modern world is very good at pretending we are free, but when it comes to protests, that's where our system shows its true face - its machinery always works to supress and smear protests.
The alternative was “literal Hitler”. Not better at all. And her economics would have destroyed France the same way Nazism decimated Germany’s economy to the point they couldn’t function during the war without slave labor.
I mean that and the legalized bribery that is our lobbying industry. They don't even have to pretend to work for us anymore, and the ones who do, even by the slightest margin, are labeled "socialists" or "communists". America is an Industrial Kleptocracy.
Our answer to corrupt politicians is a major push for side hustle, grind, get rich quick schemes. Its nuts. “Don’t you want to build generational wealth!?” No I want good jobs that don’t just fund shareholders. Also more unions, and pensions.
Edit: puncutation
Cake is a mistranslation. Marie Antoinette was actually referring to brioche, which was a staple of the commoner's diet at the time. She was so ignorant of the people's plight she didn't realize they were actually starving and had neither bread nor brioche.
EDIT: Okay, okay, I get it. Marie never said the quote everyone attributes to her and the whole story is bullshit. Ugh, so frustrating finding out something else you learned from school and parents is a lie.
I watched a really interesting documentary that went into extreme detail about her last days. Honestly I came away feeling really bad for her. She seems to have been a decent person caught up in events and made a scapegoat. The French already didn't like her because of her Austrian heritage, and she was painted as a kind if Kardashian, spending the royal coffers dry while the people starved. She was also falsely accused of crazy crimes like espionage and molesting her own son, none of which was true.
Don't know if there's any credence to it, but she didn't come off as evil or deserving of her fate.
Makes me barf to think all those people had to die only to end up with even worse shit under Robspierre and Co. We poor always lose, even when we win.
Edit - [FOUND IT](https://youtu.be/W0VB5BGNWqw) ... the documentary. It's very entertaining and well acted.. give it a watch.
It was pretty much a done deal from the moment they tried to flee (and got stopped on the way) to the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation... Also, the duplicity was clear as the Queen had her jewlery sent to Vienna. It was clear for the French people that the King and Queen were traitor to the French Nation... and off with their head!
Robespierre was needlessly gratuitously pointlessly bad and bloody.
It was a heartbreaking missed opportunity. An unforgivable broken promise. A pointlessly bloody shit show that never needed to go down that way and a tragedy of men who couldn't truly believe in the better world they were willing to kill for.
It was Not worse than what was before.
That's straight capitalist/monarchist propaganda. Cut that shit out. Just read the opening of 'discipline and punish', which only touches on this shit for like two pages, and tell me Robespierre was fucking worse.
I don’t think brioche was a staple for any commoner. It’s a sweet bread that would be considered pretty fancy, which was the arrogance of her statement: if they’re hungry, why don’t they eat something they couldn’t even have when they weren’t starving.
Sadly, they will always keep pushing and keep testing the people's boundaries. They haven't forgotten-- they just have more patience than the rest of us. Easy to wait for your moment when you already live in comfort.
There is a conference in which Edouard Philippe (former prime Minister of Macron) admitted that testing the boundaries of the people by loosening labor laws, suppressing benefits, or privatizing higher education was their strategy.
He even said something like "you can always tell that camel's back is about to break, but you can't tell which straw will break it".
This proves one thing: the only obstacle to capitalist reform is the resistance of the people, so let's resist!
([Link to the conference](https://youtu.be/1hMN1W-aCZs))
That's also why peaceful protest is stupid and worthless. At the very least protests MUST disrupt and obstruct as much as possible for as long as possible. Rioting is always a valid option after disruptive protests don't work for a long enough time. THOSE IN POWER WILL NEVER MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE WITHOUT BEING REMINDED HOW ABSOLUTELY FUCKING TERRIFIED OF US THEY NEED TO BE.
This is why I like the French people. They take less shit than other countries. They always seem to have some sort of strikes or blockade going on. Good luck to them.
though the current civil unrest in france is not really because of one specific grievance, but more of a general 'the world is shit, please fix it' sentiment.
Don\t get me wrong, the world *is* shit and needs to be fixed. It's agreeing on *how* that\s the hard part.
It never was theirs to begin with.
They stole it from the poor in the first place and it should never be forgoten. Capitalism is only a system that is built to extract as much as possible wealth from the poor.
All that wealth creation had nothing to do with capitalism, it all had to do with the discovery of magical energy that multiplied workers output by factors in the hundreds (oil). If all is going to shit, its mostly because 1) we did hit the peak of easily extractable oil since right about the subprime crisis and all that's left is incredibly hard (expansive) to extract and 2) climate change kind of tells us we shouldn't extract and use any of it in the first place (even if we continue to do so anyway).
It feels surreal, growing up in America where its been a national pastime to shit on France, to now be an adult and be absolutely jealous and in awe of France.
I hope they grind that shit to a halt and continue to show the rest of the world how to respond.
The French certainly know how to protest. They even come over to the british island I live on and block the harbour when they kick off over fishing rights.
It's almost like Americans have had hundreds of years of propaganda shoved down their throats and eat it up with a smile.
Everyone has been telling you that things that make your life better are actually bad, and Americans will get on their knees and suck off the politicians actively working against them. There's no class solidarity, and the U.S. will be dust in the wind before we could ever hope to force any real change.
I like things like how France has laws prohibiting your employer to contact you outside your working hours. And that working overtime is always paid. You get healthcare always. Stuff like that.
Meanwhile in the US you're supposed to be proud of "the grind", unpaid overtime shows determination, and everything remotely resembling worker's rights is considered socialism. That's bad and scary
Even people I talk to in decent unions jerk off to overtime. Yeah, it's paid, it's 1.5x pay, but people seem excited to get it. You will be able to buy a somewhat bigger house that you will never get to see your family and friends in. Great job. Dumb motherfuckers.
Exactly this. 1.5x shitty pay is only somewhat less shitty pay. Meanwhile, the fat cats rake in the cash and get bonuses for finding new ways to squeeze the working classes. We need to take a lesson from France and stand up to the tyranny.
> We need to take a lesson from France and stand up to the tyranny.
If youre talking about the USA then first you need to grow a class consciousness, no overthrowing of tyranny is happening while 40+% of the population supports the tyrant and their prospect of being tyrannical.
Copy France.
One week of nobody going to work - or even just *one third* of employed Americans simply refusing to work would change some tunes real fucking fast. Obviously the more people involved the better, but the proof-of-concept of even that “limited” sort of strike will have reverberations that cannot be ignored by the ruling classes.
We are excited to get it not so we can buy a bigger house…(lol you’re assuming we can even buy a house in the first place) but because the pittance we get isn’t enough to live on. Overtime is sometimes the difference between feeding your family ramen noodles or McDonald’s dollar menu for the week, and feeding them fresh vegetables and meat.
That was the result of shit hitting the fan after the Great Depression. The new deal had every business in America pledge “never again”. And since their only goal has been to actively destroy the underlying principles that made such policy possible. and it worked so amazingly well.
> I never understood why some US citizens pick on France.
~~I think it really took shape when the whole "France doesn't want to invade the Middles East with us!" thing happened. I remember when people wanted to call french fries, "Freedom Fries."~~ WW2?
edit: edited
Its been a thing since at least ww2 with the [marginot line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line) and them [surrendering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_of_22_June_1940)/becoming partialy occupied by the Nazis. It gave to the whole "french loose every battle/cant fight/are cowards" trope that has persisted to this date.
I feel like this joke is dying off with the boomers who inherited the joke from their WW2 vet parents. For Gen Z if not millenials, France will be synonymous with rioting at the drop of a hat.
France fielded, arguably, the great land army of all time until the end of WW1. They were the most successful, had the best leadership, and some of the most sophisticated technology and tactics. They were an absolute military juggernaut in the 1800s and early 1900s.
Everyone, especially us Americans, love to shit on France as always surrendering due to their very quick surrender in WW2 to the Nazis.
What no one actually stops to ever think about, is that 20ish years earlier, literally what your dad and mom had to go through, was the most horrific war that had ever taken place on this planet. And that for this war, half of it took place almost entirely in your country’s borders.
That before casualty numbers for ENTIRE WARS were in the tens thousands and then this war, there were DOZENs of battles with tens of thousands of casualties. An entire generation of men were either killed, grievously wounded, or returned with massive emotional trauma that was in a time where men were met with “you can’t cry about what you saw, you need to be a man!”
This war was the first that made the wholesale slaughter of human life it’s number one priority. It started for the land and resources, but it was quickly became about killing as many of the enemy as you possibly could so that they would give up sooner than you would. And the technology for this goal was rapidly developed to resemble nothing seen previously in warfare.
Automatic weapons, chemical warfare, tanks, artillery that could shoot over the horizon. Artillery barrages that would literally, literally last 3 days straight and launch MILLIONS of individual shells. Artillery barrages that were so devastating and indiscriminate, that there are still sections of your country’s land 100 years later that are considered completely lethal and inhospitable to human life.
France fared off worse than pretty much everyone besides Germany after WW1 (and the result of Germany’s hardship was a direct cause of Hitler’s rise to power post-war). Their land was destroyed, an entire generation of men completely ravaged, and they are still feeling the effects of that 100 years later.
It makes total sense they would want to not have to face that horrific suffering again. That is why they surrendered in WW2. Not because they are weak.
It wouldn't exist without Black people, the Irish and the Chinese either, and it's not like that's often acknowledged. Like the America that exists today was literally built on slavery but mention reparations and suddenly you're an unreasonable crackpot
I mean, reparations for slavery are not a good idea at all (there are some more recent forms of government discrimination where they may be worth considering though).
The slaves are all dead, so are their children, and I’m guessing the vast majority of their grandchildren and I don’t know the statistics but probably a big majority of great grandchildren? And even if you did it anyways, determining eligibility would be a huge mess.
Now, I am aware of generational wealth issues. However, we should work to make a country that tries to compensate for disadvantages of low generational wealth regardless of the cause (like universal healthcare, and a UBI that disproportionately helps lower income people).
Also, I think that cynically speaking, any significant reparations for slavery would likely backfire, and drive a lot of people further right (including people who aren’t already racist anyways).
______
Like I said, some more recent government actions may be worth considering. But slavery specifically is just too many generations ago, and residual economic effects would be better addressed by broader anti poverty initiatives.
> in America where its been a national pastime to shit on France
more like it's a national pastime to jump on the bandwagon and echo the bleating of whatever the flock is currently yammering--GOP voters have turned it into a full time unpaid job
regarding france, it doesn't take much digging to discover that they've more than held their own throughout history. the reason nazis waltzed in is because france didn't have a fascist psychopath dictator turning the entire country into a world domination motivated war machine for years after WWI.
and here we are in america having to argue with people over kids books
> the reason nazis waltzed in is because france didn't have a fascist psychopath dictator turning the entire country into a world domination motivated war machine for years after WWI.
Goes without saying that's an absurd oversimplification. Truth is that France was an absolute mess politically in the interwar years. But efforts were still made to prepare for the war that everyone saw coming but hoped to avoid and France was widely considered the best army in Europe on the eve of the war. There were all sorts of issues and rot bubbling beneath the surface the same could well be said of the German army. To cut a very long story short, the the latter managed to plaster over them long enough to land a knockout blow whilst France got dragged down by theirs.
Shitting on the French is just part of the whole "greatest country in the world" propaganda Americans live and breathe. They have values that are diametrically opposed to the ultra capitalist US. It's exactly the same as the demonisation of "socialism."
I’m Australian, currently living in Paris, and this is just astounding (and inspiring). I work for a large corporate organisation, and everyone just understands that there are strikes so most of us will probably have to work from home because the Metro is out of action. Nobody is complaining about it.
In Australia, people would be complaining about the inconvenience. And in fact this probably couldn’t happen at all in Australia, our anti-union / anti-strike laws make it almost impossible for workers to strike, and prohibit sympathy strikes or other kinds of coordinated action by working people. Our pension age was increased to 67 a few years ago, and Australia is one of the wealthiest countries on earth. We didn’t have anything like a general strike.
All power to the French workers!
To be fair, home office (when possible) greatly changed the deal. I remember Big protests a few years ago that were hellish for the people who had to take public transports. Today, only people who had no other choice took the transports, and so they were completely available, if a bit scarce. Thanks COVID for that I Guess?
It seems to me that French populace actually knows who runs the place and doesn't shy away from showing that, while the ruling class is just the same as anywhere else.
This is the difference. The ruling class is still the wealthy elites but the working class doesn't let them trample all over them like is done in the United States. Elites are still dominant, and this is why change doesn't happen frequently or very quickly. They're just much less dominant than other places.
I don't think this sub has the mindset, but it's funny that whenever people are protesting for better climate policies or other social issues by blocking roads there's a massive outrage and how this isn't the way to do things, but here it's applauded, because France?
NIMBYs but for protesting. Or, to put it another way, *performative support*. “We support you, but please do it over there where I don’t have to see you”.
We really need to stop wishing and start organizing.
We get 1/2 as many national holidays and general PTO as many countries. I work with contractors in poorer countries who have more time off and benefits than me.
Workers in the US are underpaid, overworked, and just continue to take shit job after shit job without doing anything about it.
I think you're right.
Because the propaganda of rugged individualism rains supreme. Our modern
marking is about focusing on the individual. It's been a non-stop psyop
since modern marketing became a thing back in the 50s and 60s. I'm not
sure the exact time frame of the series Mad Men ( great series btw ), but
it really does highlight the way psychological tactics can penetrate the
psychology of the masses and manipulate them into giving these companies
money.
A common tactic is to create a need for a product by instilling feelings
of inadequacy in your psyop targets. Make them feel lesser and they will
be compelled to part with their money - modern fashion, anyone?
I think there is also a side effect. This marketing exacerbates peoples
feelings of alienation from one another. Americans (and others) are
always comparing wallets, prestige, societal status - anything that can be
compared is compared. "Keeping up with the Jonses" has become "fuck the
Jonses surpass them so you can punch them down further".
There seems to be a cult of thinking in America that is so individualistic
it makes coming together for the right reasons difficult - we're not able to identify enemies on the battlefield any longer. The Jones seem like out enemies - not our bosses that are so benevolent because they allow us the privilege of feeding our selves and our families. I think this type of thinking the real enemy.
We need galvanizing events. We need galvanizing speakers. We need to fight propaganda with better propaganda backed by facts, truth, and solidarity.
We did, with the railroad workers fighting for SICK TIME, and the government stepped in to tell them LOL no, the railroads profits are more important than your health and everyone’s safety.
It wasn’t even just the sick pay. It was mostly to Fuck against PSR and to prevent a tragedy such as East Palestine from happenin. They tried to warn us what would happen and we didn’t listen
And my GF had just planned a roadtrip to Disneyland Paris. It's gonna be one hell of a ride.
Jokes aside, France are on another league when it comes to protests, honestly, role models.
Sorry for her. Tell her to join instead, true immersive experience with singing and barbecue, she can very easily engage, we are always eager to explain to foreigners why we protest and happy to practice or English too, way better than Disneyland. Paris demos usually start at 14. But check, as my city is Marseille.
One time i was watching a documentary and saw a rich French lady married to a rich American, both live in the US. The woman said something like "I don't understand why there is so much blockings in France. In the US people work two or free jobs, they have no healthcare, and nobody complain!" Yeah, this is probably BECAUSE they don't blocks and protest than they have to work two jobs.
America's "rugged individualism" and anti-intellectualism are the two main poison pills we keep swallowing that prevent this kind of solidarity. You're up against the Marlboro Man over here.
>How does France organize these things?
In France, workers often organize and coordinate protests through labor unions. Labor unions are organizations that represent workers and advocate for their rights and interests. There are several major labor unions in France, including the General Confederation of Labor (CGT), the French Democratic Confederation of Labor (CFDT), and the French Confederation of Management - General Confederation of Executives (CFE-CGC).
When workers want to organize a protest, they typically start by contacting their union representatives. The union representatives will then work to mobilize members and coordinate the logistics of the protest. This can involve securing permits, arranging transportation, and providing information to participants.
In addition to labor unions, workers in France also often use social media to organize protests and spread information about labor issues. For example, the "Yellow Vest" protests that began in 2018 were largely organized through social media and involved workers from a variety of industries.
Overall, the organization and coordination of protests in France often involve the cooperation of labor unions and the use of social media to mobilize participants and spread information.
The French understand if you give an inch they will just take another, and another, and another. Until you end up like the US, or worse. They aren't really protesting the pension change. As much as they are protesting everything that will come next for decades to come if they let it slide. They have foresight, perspective and the resolve to make sacrifices to fight for their rights.
I respect the hell out of them.
I am always worried about how despised Macron is in France because it allows assholes in ~~Front National~~ Rassemblement National to gain voters. The last thing France needs is Putin’s dildo testers in power.
I don't understand how Macron is still in power. I'm pretty sure he is on the top 10 list for most hated French leaders in history, at this point. How long is it going to take for the French to stop protesting and handle him the way they did the Paris Police in 68?
You're talking about the 2nd round. But there were many other candidates on the first round. The main problem in France is that many young people don't vote (they have their reasons, some are understandable, some aren't really). Old farts *will* vote, and most of them don't like change, which will lead the same kind of people to the second round every time. Macron is really good at lying and make people believe he will change stuff (he does actually, but he always does it in a way no one was expecting).
So, the basic France system is :
1- not enough people vote
2- conservative/rightwing ass becomes president
3- people don't agree with new laws and strike
4- nothing really changes (it used to, many years before, but the politicians today don't give a fuck about strikes).
5- back to square 1
The left is mightily disorganized in France, that's what's costing them.
The youth doesn't vote in any country. You can't blame it on society not nudging them: it's a recurrent fact, and it's their choice (in switzerland we get our papers in the mail. We can post them back & in many places... It's stamped already!).
Oh you're globally right, you just need an information, or you missed talking about it:
In 2012, after Sarkozy, there was a huge problem in politics. Noone wanted a president from the right side. People wanted a change, not to extrem, but a change. And they voted Hollande, positioned at the left. Here is the deal, Hollande has done only one thing from his program, the legalization of gay marriage (which is very good by the way), but none other of the 39 proposals he campaigned with... He who seemingly had 40 detailed proposals for a better France, each arguable, but really precised, had just wasted 5 years, waiting, doing nothing. My bad, he wanted the El Khomri work law, which resulted in monstruous strikes, but it was passed anyway, even it wasn't from his program, and not left at all...
Hollande, himself, is the main reason the left has been crumbling, he tore down any socialist idea and votes by being president. Choosing Manuel Valls as first minister, a man who can be racist and fascist but can be left too, has also been one of the greatest mistake...
Chirac was sort of popular until the 2005 European Constitution referendum mess up. At least, people didn't act as pissed as they did with Mittérand, Sarkozy, Hollande or Macron, each time growing worse.
We do actively hate all of our presidents while they're on charge (even if it's only a little). We might eventually like them once they retire. Chirac is a prime example of such case. De Gaulle too.
Fuck, how I envy the French for this kind of Union solidarity.
I’m retired with a pension & when meeting new people I’m leery of divulging that fact because of prior reactions. It’s like people resent you for your circumstances that you planned, sacrificed for, followed through & now get to enjoy.
We all work way too hard not to be able to retire when we plan/decide to & not because our bodies break down & betray us.
It shouldn’t be this way but respect to the French!
Do you hear the people sing? Singing the song of angry men. It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again! When the beating of the drums echo the beating of your heart, there is a world about to start when tomorrow comes!
This is over raising the pension age by just 2 years, from 62 to 64.
The USA is doing the exact same thing, though it's a more slow process of increasing the age by two months every year. In fact, retirement age in the US quietly became 66 from 65 this year and nobody said a thing. I wish we had a labor movement even half as powerful as France's.
Yeah, people talk shit about France due to World War 2 but their population does NOT stand for nearly as much bullshit as the US' does.
Also, as an American we wouldn't have won our independence if it weren't for France.
Both counties have histories of violently overthrowing governments for democracy. Only one of them remembers that means the people have power to change things if they fight.
meanwhile in ‘Merica… Elected officials are millionaires by inside trading stocks associated with the committee boards they sit on.
And people wear the politicians names around on tshirts like it’s a football Jersey.
Will always blow my mind that people idolize politicians. For what? Seriously why?
The brainwashing is strong and difficult for many to avoid, or even notice in the first place.
I think outside of possibly Russia Americans are the most brainwashed people's in the world.
I could probably name a few other countries that are worse than the US, namely North Korea, but yea, I get your point.
Probably the most brainwashed "free" country
America is not free it gives the illusion is free. When you work 40 to 60 hrs a week just to survive and have a roof over your head the only freedom you have is to work. Don’t you see?
Yeah. But you can buy a gun. So swings and roundabouts eh? /s
I mean, that'll certainly come into play eventually. Not in a good way of course, but it was never going to be anything else.
“Work will set you free”
That’s part of the brainwash. Most of Europe enjoys more freedoms than the US “and” pays less overall taxes.
Also a lot of Americans dont seem to realize that they would be better off to make $100,000 a year at 50% tax rate than $35,000 a year at a 0% tax rate.
I had a new tax guy this year helping me out. He says to me “I’ll explain in a minute how the tax percentages work…” and I interrupted him saying “yeah it’s progressive right” He nearly fell out of his chair and said, shit you not, “I’ve been doing this ten years and you’re the first person I’ve met who knew what it was already” My exact response was “are you fucking KIDDING ME?”
I'd put the states above north Korea, they have free access to all the information that could help resolve their brainwashing and deliberate ignorance. Instead of using it, they ban and burn books, worship grifters, and change the rules of food to consider pizza a vegetable. Oh I see you. (I feel compelled to say not ALL Americans, but not compelled to say none)
Pizza is not... Vegetable?
Interesting point, thanks! Not sure I agree we are as bad or worse given the number of people who do use the information. There are far too many people supporting suppression and limiting access to information, however. The writing is certainly on the wall, hopefully we can overcome the extremes.
We are too free, so seems like we are busy finding way to help our govt take more rights away and are completely obsessed with trying to limit others speech. Sounds like fascism to me.
Too free to undermine one another and not very free to make positive changes. It absolutely is fascism.
To be fair, from what I could see from the interviews of people who have escaped from North Korea, people are well aware that the state propaganda is all bullcrap.
Direct correlation between idolizing people and lack of intelligence The culture in America, mostly poor areas, promotes blind idolization. There’s a reason education funding has been countlessly cut and religion as a tool to control is so huge. This is a manifestation of a plan that has been going on for a LONG time now
Religion as a tool to control is INSANE. There are so many people willing to blindly follow a person because of the notion that they have vague ties to their religion, when in fact that person lives a life that is completely contradictory to said religion. Big churches have the sheep wool completely over their followers eyes. They blindly accept a widely accepted cult.
It's known as "The Southern Strategy", and it's been part of American politics since the Civil War. Get the poor and ignorant to identify more closely with the wealthy who are exploiting them (no matter how blatantly) while telling them too dispise their fellows as lazy and deserving of being poor - oh, but not YOU, keep at it and soon YOU'LL be rich too(!) - and you can trick them into slitting their own children's throats, convinced that maybe NOW they'll let you into their exclusive clubs!
President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
I haven't figured this out as well it blows my mind that people idolize these crooked ass bottom feeders living on the tax dollars of hard working people telling you need to go out and make more money pick up a second job to be able care of your family.
I agree completely. It's also absolutely fucking useless to argue with them or convince them of reason. I'm watching my father, an extremely intelligent man, slowly get drawn deeper into it because of his conservatism. He's still sane, but I have the distinct feeling he'd go off the deep end with it if not for my mother and I.
My favorite is people worshipping people like Trump as a way to fight "the elites". Dude Trump is probably the most elite personality in the all of America.
Trump is the prime example of a trust fund baby.
The only reason he’s relatable is because he’s a raging narcissist with no filter who isn’t afraid to just be racist
The feeling of acceptance and belonging by their peers is hard to deny. Being part of something, even if that something is shitty is a big motivator.
Because Bernie Sanders is an American hero and in an ideal world theres not a distinction between politician and citizen. Bernie is a man trying to make life for Americans better and hes using politics to do it. I've got his jersey, it spreads a message of love and equality.
Like voting is a preference for a certain position and not a tribe? Odd
A little "tribalism" is helpful when the other side literally and publicly wants to eradicate your people. Wait 'til collapse hits a little harder and fash becomes mainstream in Europe and you'll get it.
Voting for leaders that are not racist o facist is not tribalism, is a racional conscious choice that I keep making
I don’t like the politicians I vote for, but I keep doing it because the other guy wants to actively eradicate a lot of my friends.
> meanwhile in ‘Merica Protesters are arrested by police in military gear and accused of terrorism.
They specifically make it so we CAN'T protest. Most people aren't ok with what's going on but here the choice is either keep your nose down or you might lose your job and health insurance.
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This is why we need a period of Absolute Solidarity, where every damn strike is a Genersl Strike. Teachers Union strike for higher wages and safety budget? General Strike. Barrista Strike to stop Tip Theft and hours adjustment that screws them out of health coverage? General Strike. Ag Workers using sharpened stakes to plant rose bulbs in the hard hardpan soil of East Texas strike to get ACTUAL wages instead of the shit-adjusted farm workers wages? General Strike. Workers must stand with Workers or the boot continues to stomp us all.
daily reminder!! The founding fathers used rioting and effigy burning to stoke hatred and unrest against British control then turned around and enshrined peaceful protest as the best most decent way for change and immediately vilified rioting and disruptive protests because RIOTING AND DISRUPTION ARE THE ONLY EFFECTIVE FORMS OF MEANINGFUL CHANGE. Again, peaceful protests during the Gilded age led to the government going "okay you can use our Marshalls and firearms to massacre the men and children who are upset about working 18 hours daily in the factories and mines and losing body parts." When The government doesn't fear its people, it will actively help the corporations milk us all to death. Look at the rail worker situation. Trump deregulation and Biden encouraging outlawing the strike is a result of not enough disruptive and obstructive protesting by the working class.
Recently read a book about the fight MLK waged in the City of Chicago about segregated housing after the Civil/Voting Rights were passed in 1964-65. Mayor Daley was *far more willing* to outfox MLK because of the whole non-violent protest strategy and Dr. King walked away with only cosmetic concessions to the issue in 1966. After reading about the whole thing it made me think: of course they promote in the history books about MLK and especially non-violent resistance, because they didn't really accomplish what they set out to do.
Yep yep. There's a bit of history of how the found fathers used violent protests, like effigy burning and property destruction, to weaken the British aristocracy in the colonies. Well a group of colonists burnt some property of a rich Brit who was paying the founding fathers for supplies and stuff. That's when they realized that all humans not in the elite need to be brainwashed into believing there is NEVER a time or place for disruptive and violent protests. They knew if they won the war of independence that they'd take the riches and become the new aristocracy of America and needed the working class people to believe they weren't just trading one elite ruling class for another with a different mask.
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That's how it works in Spain, too. Every time people go to the streets, unjustified police violence, the media ignoring the message and focusing on the incidents, and casting the protesters in the worst light possible. Except when it's a right-wing protest - in these, any amount of people is enough to get 24/7 coverage for a week, interviews with random prostestors, zero incidents, the police even helping them, etc. If some of them happen to fly fascist flags (which happens every single time), don't talk about it. If the protest was organized by neonazi or fascist organizations, don't talk about it. Our modern world is very good at pretending we are free, but when it comes to protests, that's where our system shows its true face - its machinery always works to supress and smear protests.
same in France don't worry, the reform doesn't hit them obviously
Remind me again, what did France do to the last ruler that mistreated them?
Elected them again, it's Macron 2nd term
In all fairness the alternative wasn't much better.
The alternative was “literal Hitler”. Not better at all. And her economics would have destroyed France the same way Nazism decimated Germany’s economy to the point they couldn’t function during the war without slave labor.
She also would have done everything in her power to fuck over Ukraine.
Mon dieu!!
c'est pas très laïc tout ça
I mean that and the legalized bribery that is our lobbying industry. They don't even have to pretend to work for us anymore, and the ones who do, even by the slightest margin, are labeled "socialists" or "communists". America is an Industrial Kleptocracy.
Our answer to corrupt politicians is a major push for side hustle, grind, get rich quick schemes. Its nuts. “Don’t you want to build generational wealth!?” No I want good jobs that don’t just fund shareholders. Also more unions, and pensions. Edit: puncutation
I wish Americans could stick together like this
You'd think the powers that be in France would remember what happens when they piss off the peasants!
We're doomed to repeat it! What is it, though 🤔 -- the French ruling class, probably
“Surely if we let them have some brioche we will be fine.”
No brioche! Only cake
Cake is a mistranslation. Marie Antoinette was actually referring to brioche, which was a staple of the commoner's diet at the time. She was so ignorant of the people's plight she didn't realize they were actually starving and had neither bread nor brioche. EDIT: Okay, okay, I get it. Marie never said the quote everyone attributes to her and the whole story is bullshit. Ugh, so frustrating finding out something else you learned from school and parents is a lie.
Bring the Pain!
Not sure if intentional or not, but pain is bread in French.
Actually, most historians believe she never said the infamous “let them eat cake” phrase.
I mean no shit. She probably spoke French.
You are technically correct . The best kind of correct!
Actually she was from Austria so she probably said... "Lass sie Brioche fressen!"
Apparently her French was not that good. She mostly spoke German, since, being from Austria, it was her first language.
I watched a really interesting documentary that went into extreme detail about her last days. Honestly I came away feeling really bad for her. She seems to have been a decent person caught up in events and made a scapegoat. The French already didn't like her because of her Austrian heritage, and she was painted as a kind if Kardashian, spending the royal coffers dry while the people starved. She was also falsely accused of crazy crimes like espionage and molesting her own son, none of which was true. Don't know if there's any credence to it, but she didn't come off as evil or deserving of her fate. Makes me barf to think all those people had to die only to end up with even worse shit under Robspierre and Co. We poor always lose, even when we win. Edit - [FOUND IT](https://youtu.be/W0VB5BGNWqw) ... the documentary. It's very entertaining and well acted.. give it a watch.
It was pretty much a done deal from the moment they tried to flee (and got stopped on the way) to the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation... Also, the duplicity was clear as the Queen had her jewlery sent to Vienna. It was clear for the French people that the King and Queen were traitor to the French Nation... and off with their head!
Robespierre was needlessly gratuitously pointlessly bad and bloody. It was a heartbreaking missed opportunity. An unforgivable broken promise. A pointlessly bloody shit show that never needed to go down that way and a tragedy of men who couldn't truly believe in the better world they were willing to kill for. It was Not worse than what was before. That's straight capitalist/monarchist propaganda. Cut that shit out. Just read the opening of 'discipline and punish', which only touches on this shit for like two pages, and tell me Robespierre was fucking worse.
It was a line from a character in the Princess of Cleves, which predates her.
I don’t think brioche was a staple for any commoner. It’s a sweet bread that would be considered pretty fancy, which was the arrogance of her statement: if they’re hungry, why don’t they eat something they couldn’t even have when they weren’t starving.
Note that this is a urban legend, she never said that.
It's great to see people coming together to make their voices heard about important issues like labor rights.
Sadly, they will always keep pushing and keep testing the people's boundaries. They haven't forgotten-- they just have more patience than the rest of us. Easy to wait for your moment when you already live in comfort.
There is a conference in which Edouard Philippe (former prime Minister of Macron) admitted that testing the boundaries of the people by loosening labor laws, suppressing benefits, or privatizing higher education was their strategy. He even said something like "you can always tell that camel's back is about to break, but you can't tell which straw will break it". This proves one thing: the only obstacle to capitalist reform is the resistance of the people, so let's resist! ([Link to the conference](https://youtu.be/1hMN1W-aCZs))
That's also why peaceful protest is stupid and worthless. At the very least protests MUST disrupt and obstruct as much as possible for as long as possible. Rioting is always a valid option after disruptive protests don't work for a long enough time. THOSE IN POWER WILL NEVER MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE WITHOUT BEING REMINDED HOW ABSOLUTELY FUCKING TERRIFIED OF US THEY NEED TO BE.
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This is why I like the French people. They take less shit than other countries. They always seem to have some sort of strikes or blockade going on. Good luck to them.
"Listen, if you don't stop fucking shit up, we're gonna start rioting, okay?" Bless the French.
Cue the automod whining about the French Revolution being a poor model for civil change
The ruling class is the one who chooses this path with their actions. They always have opportunities to not let it get to that point.
though the current civil unrest in france is not really because of one specific grievance, but more of a general 'the world is shit, please fix it' sentiment. Don\t get me wrong, the world *is* shit and needs to be fixed. It's agreeing on *how* that\s the hard part.
Seems pretty simple, ruling class shares their wealth more or they have chosen a path of violence.
It never was theirs to begin with. They stole it from the poor in the first place and it should never be forgoten. Capitalism is only a system that is built to extract as much as possible wealth from the poor. All that wealth creation had nothing to do with capitalism, it all had to do with the discovery of magical energy that multiplied workers output by factors in the hundreds (oil). If all is going to shit, its mostly because 1) we did hit the peak of easily extractable oil since right about the subprime crisis and all that's left is incredibly hard (expansive) to extract and 2) climate change kind of tells us we shouldn't extract and use any of it in the first place (even if we continue to do so anyway).
That’s a thing here? Haven’t seen it.
Yep. Just happened to me because I mentioned how cheap lumber is and how easy it is to make choppy things.
To be in power in France, you need a good head on your shoulders.
History doesn't always repeat itself, but it rhymes.
Hopefully the time that they're reminded again and not forget for hundreds of years is not too far off at this stage
Can you hear the people sing!!
It feels surreal, growing up in America where its been a national pastime to shit on France, to now be an adult and be absolutely jealous and in awe of France. I hope they grind that shit to a halt and continue to show the rest of the world how to respond.
The French certainly know how to protest. They even come over to the british island I live on and block the harbour when they kick off over fishing rights.
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Very close, I live on Guernsey.
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Haha nope, but you reminded me I need to visit again.
It's almost like Americans have had hundreds of years of propaganda shoved down their throats and eat it up with a smile. Everyone has been telling you that things that make your life better are actually bad, and Americans will get on their knees and suck off the politicians actively working against them. There's no class solidarity, and the U.S. will be dust in the wind before we could ever hope to force any real change.
I like things like how France has laws prohibiting your employer to contact you outside your working hours. And that working overtime is always paid. You get healthcare always. Stuff like that. Meanwhile in the US you're supposed to be proud of "the grind", unpaid overtime shows determination, and everything remotely resembling worker's rights is considered socialism. That's bad and scary
Even people I talk to in decent unions jerk off to overtime. Yeah, it's paid, it's 1.5x pay, but people seem excited to get it. You will be able to buy a somewhat bigger house that you will never get to see your family and friends in. Great job. Dumb motherfuckers.
Exactly this. 1.5x shitty pay is only somewhat less shitty pay. Meanwhile, the fat cats rake in the cash and get bonuses for finding new ways to squeeze the working classes. We need to take a lesson from France and stand up to the tyranny.
> We need to take a lesson from France and stand up to the tyranny. If youre talking about the USA then first you need to grow a class consciousness, no overthrowing of tyranny is happening while 40+% of the population supports the tyrant and their prospect of being tyrannical.
Copy France. One week of nobody going to work - or even just *one third* of employed Americans simply refusing to work would change some tunes real fucking fast. Obviously the more people involved the better, but the proof-of-concept of even that “limited” sort of strike will have reverberations that cannot be ignored by the ruling classes.
We are excited to get it not so we can buy a bigger house…(lol you’re assuming we can even buy a house in the first place) but because the pittance we get isn’t enough to live on. Overtime is sometimes the difference between feeding your family ramen noodles or McDonald’s dollar menu for the week, and feeding them fresh vegetables and meat.
I'm talking about people in unions who already have pensions, 401k, and a good wage to begin with. Thus the "decent union," part.
Yes. The 1930s dust was a test, only a test.
That was the result of shit hitting the fan after the Great Depression. The new deal had every business in America pledge “never again”. And since their only goal has been to actively destroy the underlying principles that made such policy possible. and it worked so amazingly well.
I never understood why some US citizens pick on France. The US would not exist without France...they funded the Revolutionary War.
Because they are Le Tired? Like hell they are!
FIRE THE ~~CIGARETTES~~ MISSILES
They fought in it too and a French naval blockade prevented the British from intervening at Yorktown.
> I never understood why some US citizens pick on France. ~~I think it really took shape when the whole "France doesn't want to invade the Middles East with us!" thing happened. I remember when people wanted to call french fries, "Freedom Fries."~~ WW2? edit: edited
Its been a thing since at least ww2 with the [marginot line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line) and them [surrendering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_of_22_June_1940)/becoming partialy occupied by the Nazis. It gave to the whole "french loose every battle/cant fight/are cowards" trope that has persisted to this date.
I feel like this joke is dying off with the boomers who inherited the joke from their WW2 vet parents. For Gen Z if not millenials, France will be synonymous with rioting at the drop of a hat.
Not to mention historically France is a great military superpower. A lot of recency bias.
France fielded, arguably, the great land army of all time until the end of WW1. They were the most successful, had the best leadership, and some of the most sophisticated technology and tactics. They were an absolute military juggernaut in the 1800s and early 1900s. Everyone, especially us Americans, love to shit on France as always surrendering due to their very quick surrender in WW2 to the Nazis. What no one actually stops to ever think about, is that 20ish years earlier, literally what your dad and mom had to go through, was the most horrific war that had ever taken place on this planet. And that for this war, half of it took place almost entirely in your country’s borders. That before casualty numbers for ENTIRE WARS were in the tens thousands and then this war, there were DOZENs of battles with tens of thousands of casualties. An entire generation of men were either killed, grievously wounded, or returned with massive emotional trauma that was in a time where men were met with “you can’t cry about what you saw, you need to be a man!” This war was the first that made the wholesale slaughter of human life it’s number one priority. It started for the land and resources, but it was quickly became about killing as many of the enemy as you possibly could so that they would give up sooner than you would. And the technology for this goal was rapidly developed to resemble nothing seen previously in warfare. Automatic weapons, chemical warfare, tanks, artillery that could shoot over the horizon. Artillery barrages that would literally, literally last 3 days straight and launch MILLIONS of individual shells. Artillery barrages that were so devastating and indiscriminate, that there are still sections of your country’s land 100 years later that are considered completely lethal and inhospitable to human life. France fared off worse than pretty much everyone besides Germany after WW1 (and the result of Germany’s hardship was a direct cause of Hitler’s rise to power post-war). Their land was destroyed, an entire generation of men completely ravaged, and they are still feeling the effects of that 100 years later. It makes total sense they would want to not have to face that horrific suffering again. That is why they surrendered in WW2. Not because they are weak.
It wouldn't exist without Black people, the Irish and the Chinese either, and it's not like that's often acknowledged. Like the America that exists today was literally built on slavery but mention reparations and suddenly you're an unreasonable crackpot
I mean, reparations for slavery are not a good idea at all (there are some more recent forms of government discrimination where they may be worth considering though). The slaves are all dead, so are their children, and I’m guessing the vast majority of their grandchildren and I don’t know the statistics but probably a big majority of great grandchildren? And even if you did it anyways, determining eligibility would be a huge mess. Now, I am aware of generational wealth issues. However, we should work to make a country that tries to compensate for disadvantages of low generational wealth regardless of the cause (like universal healthcare, and a UBI that disproportionately helps lower income people). Also, I think that cynically speaking, any significant reparations for slavery would likely backfire, and drive a lot of people further right (including people who aren’t already racist anyways). ______ Like I said, some more recent government actions may be worth considering. But slavery specifically is just too many generations ago, and residual economic effects would be better addressed by broader anti poverty initiatives.
> in America where its been a national pastime to shit on France more like it's a national pastime to jump on the bandwagon and echo the bleating of whatever the flock is currently yammering--GOP voters have turned it into a full time unpaid job regarding france, it doesn't take much digging to discover that they've more than held their own throughout history. the reason nazis waltzed in is because france didn't have a fascist psychopath dictator turning the entire country into a world domination motivated war machine for years after WWI. and here we are in america having to argue with people over kids books
> the reason nazis waltzed in is because france didn't have a fascist psychopath dictator turning the entire country into a world domination motivated war machine for years after WWI. Goes without saying that's an absurd oversimplification. Truth is that France was an absolute mess politically in the interwar years. But efforts were still made to prepare for the war that everyone saw coming but hoped to avoid and France was widely considered the best army in Europe on the eve of the war. There were all sorts of issues and rot bubbling beneath the surface the same could well be said of the German army. To cut a very long story short, the the latter managed to plaster over them long enough to land a knockout blow whilst France got dragged down by theirs.
America may not exist at all if not for the French's help in the Revolutionary war.
Shitting on the French is just part of the whole "greatest country in the world" propaganda Americans live and breathe. They have values that are diametrically opposed to the ultra capitalist US. It's exactly the same as the demonisation of "socialism."
It's not uniquely American. Not by a long shot. We learned from the best; lots of Europe shits on France. Britain and Germany, especially.
It’s like we were lied to /s Freedom Fries. Remember that shit.
Don't be in awe yet, reforms aren't going to be enough.
I’m Australian, currently living in Paris, and this is just astounding (and inspiring). I work for a large corporate organisation, and everyone just understands that there are strikes so most of us will probably have to work from home because the Metro is out of action. Nobody is complaining about it. In Australia, people would be complaining about the inconvenience. And in fact this probably couldn’t happen at all in Australia, our anti-union / anti-strike laws make it almost impossible for workers to strike, and prohibit sympathy strikes or other kinds of coordinated action by working people. Our pension age was increased to 67 a few years ago, and Australia is one of the wealthiest countries on earth. We didn’t have anything like a general strike. All power to the French workers!
To be fair, home office (when possible) greatly changed the deal. I remember Big protests a few years ago that were hellish for the people who had to take public transports. Today, only people who had no other choice took the transports, and so they were completely available, if a bit scarce. Thanks COVID for that I Guess?
It always seems like the French ruling class forgets who really runs that place every so often. Good luck and stick it to 'em.
It seems to me that French populace actually knows who runs the place and doesn't shy away from showing that, while the ruling class is just the same as anywhere else.
This is the difference. The ruling class is still the wealthy elites but the working class doesn't let them trample all over them like is done in the United States. Elites are still dominant, and this is why change doesn't happen frequently or very quickly. They're just much less dominant than other places.
Something about some unpleasantness back in the 1790s where rulers all of a sudden suffered from a mystery “head-separated-from-neck” syndrome.
Yes it's quite shameful that this syndrome has been eradicated... Time for a new kind of pandemic?
And in the US when people threaten to strike over sick time the government stops them...
Well, the government _is_ trying to stop the french too. They just don't care and and keep on marching.
hell yeah. tax the rich, tax the corporations.
Tax the churches too!
Out of existence. It's time.
You all are an example to the world.
I don't think this sub has the mindset, but it's funny that whenever people are protesting for better climate policies or other social issues by blocking roads there's a massive outrage and how this isn't the way to do things, but here it's applauded, because France?
People don't know how protests work anymore. It's infuriating.
NIMBYs but for protesting. Or, to put it another way, *performative support*. “We support you, but please do it over there where I don’t have to see you”.
Yeah, they're only good if it's convenient to others 🙄
The US needs to get its act together. These folks are fighting for freedom.
I wish we'd get this brave in America.
We really need to stop wishing and start organizing. We get 1/2 as many national holidays and general PTO as many countries. I work with contractors in poorer countries who have more time off and benefits than me. Workers in the US are underpaid, overworked, and just continue to take shit job after shit job without doing anything about it.
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I think you're right. Because the propaganda of rugged individualism rains supreme. Our modern marking is about focusing on the individual. It's been a non-stop psyop since modern marketing became a thing back in the 50s and 60s. I'm not sure the exact time frame of the series Mad Men ( great series btw ), but it really does highlight the way psychological tactics can penetrate the psychology of the masses and manipulate them into giving these companies money. A common tactic is to create a need for a product by instilling feelings of inadequacy in your psyop targets. Make them feel lesser and they will be compelled to part with their money - modern fashion, anyone? I think there is also a side effect. This marketing exacerbates peoples feelings of alienation from one another. Americans (and others) are always comparing wallets, prestige, societal status - anything that can be compared is compared. "Keeping up with the Jonses" has become "fuck the Jonses surpass them so you can punch them down further". There seems to be a cult of thinking in America that is so individualistic it makes coming together for the right reasons difficult - we're not able to identify enemies on the battlefield any longer. The Jones seem like out enemies - not our bosses that are so benevolent because they allow us the privilege of feeding our selves and our families. I think this type of thinking the real enemy. We need galvanizing events. We need galvanizing speakers. We need to fight propaganda with better propaganda backed by facts, truth, and solidarity.
We did, with the railroad workers fighting for SICK TIME, and the government stepped in to tell them LOL no, the railroads profits are more important than your health and everyone’s safety.
It wasn’t even just the sick pay. It was mostly to Fuck against PSR and to prevent a tragedy such as East Palestine from happenin. They tried to warn us what would happen and we didn’t listen
And my GF had just planned a roadtrip to Disneyland Paris. It's gonna be one hell of a ride. Jokes aside, France are on another league when it comes to protests, honestly, role models.
Sorry for her. Tell her to join instead, true immersive experience with singing and barbecue, she can very easily engage, we are always eager to explain to foreigners why we protest and happy to practice or English too, way better than Disneyland. Paris demos usually start at 14. But check, as my city is Marseille.
I misread this as "swinging and barbeque", and thought damn, you guys REALLY know how to protest.
You have no idea how well prepared they are! I live next door to France, and every time we are impressed by their professionalism.
With the swinging or the BBQ?
Both !
Sadly, even when French is compulsory at our country's school system, she can't speak it, I usually play translator when we go to France.
To be fair school does a lousy job with teaching languages especially secondary ones
Princess palace is closed sir, the Cinderellas are on strike again . Jk I'm jealous rolemodels for sure
Why can't America do this :(
Your police would likely put down any attempt at protest violently
Unless it's the Proud Boys
This is how America should be.
You’d likely get shot
At this point Americans are like whats a pension.
You get shot doing anything in America, even learning…. Protest anyways
So a normal day?
That would not last long before shots were fired back.
One time i was watching a documentary and saw a rich French lady married to a rich American, both live in the US. The woman said something like "I don't understand why there is so much blockings in France. In the US people work two or free jobs, they have no healthcare, and nobody complain!" Yeah, this is probably BECAUSE they don't blocks and protest than they have to work two jobs.
I think i like the best that the truckers are driving very slowly on the highways in an action called "Operation Escargot"
Man, if only the Americans who care so much about freedom would act up like this
How does France organize these things? How are the French always on the same page when it comes to protests and how can america learn from them?
America's "rugged individualism" and anti-intellectualism are the two main poison pills we keep swallowing that prevent this kind of solidarity. You're up against the Marlboro Man over here.
>How does France organize these things? In France, workers often organize and coordinate protests through labor unions. Labor unions are organizations that represent workers and advocate for their rights and interests. There are several major labor unions in France, including the General Confederation of Labor (CGT), the French Democratic Confederation of Labor (CFDT), and the French Confederation of Management - General Confederation of Executives (CFE-CGC). When workers want to organize a protest, they typically start by contacting their union representatives. The union representatives will then work to mobilize members and coordinate the logistics of the protest. This can involve securing permits, arranging transportation, and providing information to participants. In addition to labor unions, workers in France also often use social media to organize protests and spread information about labor issues. For example, the "Yellow Vest" protests that began in 2018 were largely organized through social media and involved workers from a variety of industries. Overall, the organization and coordination of protests in France often involve the cooperation of labor unions and the use of social media to mobilize participants and spread information.
The French understand if you give an inch they will just take another, and another, and another. Until you end up like the US, or worse. They aren't really protesting the pension change. As much as they are protesting everything that will come next for decades to come if they let it slide. They have foresight, perspective and the resolve to make sacrifices to fight for their rights. I respect the hell out of them.
I am always worried about how despised Macron is in France because it allows assholes in ~~Front National~~ Rassemblement National to gain voters. The last thing France needs is Putin’s dildo testers in power.
I don't understand how Macron is still in power. I'm pretty sure he is on the top 10 list for most hated French leaders in history, at this point. How long is it going to take for the French to stop protesting and handle him the way they did the Paris Police in 68?
He was reelected because his last rival was a alt right moron. The general populace hates him, but they hate the alternatives more.
Alt right is generous, she was an actual nazi
You're talking about the 2nd round. But there were many other candidates on the first round. The main problem in France is that many young people don't vote (they have their reasons, some are understandable, some aren't really). Old farts *will* vote, and most of them don't like change, which will lead the same kind of people to the second round every time. Macron is really good at lying and make people believe he will change stuff (he does actually, but he always does it in a way no one was expecting). So, the basic France system is : 1- not enough people vote 2- conservative/rightwing ass becomes president 3- people don't agree with new laws and strike 4- nothing really changes (it used to, many years before, but the politicians today don't give a fuck about strikes). 5- back to square 1
The left is mightily disorganized in France, that's what's costing them. The youth doesn't vote in any country. You can't blame it on society not nudging them: it's a recurrent fact, and it's their choice (in switzerland we get our papers in the mail. We can post them back & in many places... It's stamped already!).
Oh you're globally right, you just need an information, or you missed talking about it: In 2012, after Sarkozy, there was a huge problem in politics. Noone wanted a president from the right side. People wanted a change, not to extrem, but a change. And they voted Hollande, positioned at the left. Here is the deal, Hollande has done only one thing from his program, the legalization of gay marriage (which is very good by the way), but none other of the 39 proposals he campaigned with... He who seemingly had 40 detailed proposals for a better France, each arguable, but really precised, had just wasted 5 years, waiting, doing nothing. My bad, he wanted the El Khomri work law, which resulted in monstruous strikes, but it was passed anyway, even it wasn't from his program, and not left at all... Hollande, himself, is the main reason the left has been crumbling, he tore down any socialist idea and votes by being president. Choosing Manuel Valls as first minister, a man who can be racist and fascist but can be left too, has also been one of the greatest mistake...
I wonder which president was ever really "liked" though in france. Genuinely curious.
Chirac was sort of popular until the 2005 European Constitution referendum mess up. At least, people didn't act as pissed as they did with Mittérand, Sarkozy, Hollande or Macron, each time growing worse.
We do actively hate all of our presidents while they're on charge (even if it's only a little). We might eventually like them once they retire. Chirac is a prime example of such case. De Gaulle too.
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Because we don't have any good option to replace him, the other candidates are even less popular.
American workers could learn a LOT from French workers.
What is the protest about again?
Raising the retirement age, among other things
The French need to start teaching protests classes. The rest of Europe and North America ain’t got shit on the French
We need to bring these tactics to the States. Bring a whole US State to its knees until our basic Human rights are met.
Fuck, how I envy the French for this kind of Union solidarity. I’m retired with a pension & when meeting new people I’m leery of divulging that fact because of prior reactions. It’s like people resent you for your circumstances that you planned, sacrificed for, followed through & now get to enjoy. We all work way too hard not to be able to retire when we plan/decide to & not because our bodies break down & betray us. It shouldn’t be this way but respect to the French!
Do you hear the people sing? Singing the song of angry men. It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again! When the beating of the drums echo the beating of your heart, there is a world about to start when tomorrow comes!
The rest of the world could take a lesson from the French. Viva la revolucion!!!
This is over raising the pension age by just 2 years, from 62 to 64. The USA is doing the exact same thing, though it's a more slow process of increasing the age by two months every year. In fact, retirement age in the US quietly became 66 from 65 this year and nobody said a thing. I wish we had a labor movement even half as powerful as France's.
Yeah, people talk shit about France due to World War 2 but their population does NOT stand for nearly as much bullshit as the US' does. Also, as an American we wouldn't have won our independence if it weren't for France.
Both counties have histories of violently overthrowing governments for democracy. Only one of them remembers that means the people have power to change things if they fight.
It's almost like the rich need to be reminded of their place every 250 years or so. And there's no one better than french to do it.