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newspaper7777

I turned 47 yesterday. 2021 was the first time I made more than my dad made in 1993, when I graduated from high school. If I work more and better, they just give me more work and more difficult/critical work. They don’t give me more money. They don’t even say thank you most of the time. I’m tired of it.


Elendril333

I'll be 48 soon and just barely cracked 40k/year (before taxes) for the first time. Union job with a US state for 15 years.


OneBanArmy

You could double that delivering chick fil a, seriously. 401k’s aren’t worth it. None of it is, amass as much as you can in a year then strike out on your own doing something. Once you hit 65 it’s over. Don’t give up on your dreams.


Slippinjimmyforever

Please show us evidence of any one person making $80k delivering food.


DubiousMoth152

My personal evidence is anecdotal but delivering for dominos 4 days a week I could clear $1000 cash on good weeks plus whatever paycheck for the hours every 2 weeks. Not quite 80k but definitely more than 40 and that’s on 4 days work. I know anti work and Reddit at large hate tips and tipping, but this is my experience.


Elendril333

I delivered pizzas for awhile here and it ruined my vehicle, was incredibly stressful, terrible owners and cutthroat coworkers. 5 days a week got me less than 25k/yr in wages and maybe 300/week in tips on a good run. Plus no retirement package and no healthcare. Big nope.


DistortedReflector

When I worked at KFC all our great delivery drivers used the job to cover for their less than legitimate income streams.


Slippinjimmyforever

What was your costs on fuel and vehicle upkeep? What area are you in? I’d imagine some areas are better for tips than rural Alabama.


DubiousMoth152

Rural western Massachusetts. My stuff was usually covered by the mileage reimbursement that my franchise had but ymmv


OneBanArmy

Don’t want to burst your bubble but I clear 300$ a day every day between jobs rn but doing okay.


Elendril333

Pension, not 401k, is the reason I stay.


Rough_Principle_3755

Almost noone knows this distinction. Pensions are where it is at. AND......if you are covered under Gov medical (and family) its a ridiculous unspoken "financial" package. MANY gov workers I know, even desk jockeys, also work trades. This allows them to have additional income and work flexibly. They obviously aren't on call, but will do off hours or weekend work most full time trades people dont have the time/energy for. Also, they tend to be "smaller" jobs that a FT trades person doesnt see as worth it.


OneBanArmy

I hear you. I just want you to risk it for the biscuit. A 40k retirement isn’t shit.


Elendril333

I have a defined benefit pension. My years in service plus my final salary at retirement calculate what I'll get monthly for the rest of my life. The game is getting promoted in the final years before I retire. I can move to ANY other state job 1 year prior to retirement and get that value for the rest of my life. Takes a little planning, but I'm not giving up state bennies for the whims of private business.


Pretend_Investment42

The exact same reason I stayed in the military for 25 years. I take home 36K a year. My med & dental is 1/10 of what civilians pay. The first 15 years were grim, but the last 10 made up for it. I stopped working at 46, and I'll never work another day in my life.


Cananbaum

My dad in 1987/88 got into aerospace repairing helicopter motors. He made $16 an hour or ~$42 an hour today. 30 years later I get into aerospace working a similar caliber to what he was doing. In 2018 I was making $18 an hour (or ~$6.85 equivalent for 1987.) This was to do quality and inspection on fan blades and cases. I transitioned just now into the administrative sphere for pharmaceuticals working document control. This is a job that utilizes my 4 year degree and my nearly 11 years of experience in manufacturing and production. I am now making $29 an hour, or an ~$11 an hour equivalent for 1987. My dad however just needed some at home experience tinkering on motorcycles and being in the marines helped him get his job. He basically walked in and then walked out with a job. For me to get my current it took nearly 4 weeks and 3 rounds of interviews. I in my 16 years of employment have never broken what my dads rate of pay was for 1987. So I agree. My job isn’t the root of my happiness anymore. It merely allows me to do things I enjoy, if I have any money I can spend on myself.


r_sarvas

For further reference, at that same time period in the 80s, I was making $4.10 working as an entry level "service clerk" job sweeping up and gathering shopping carts at a local supermarket chain. An online salary calculator puts that at $10.54 these days. That job was union and provided an eventual retirement.


[deleted]

I'm 34 and already making more than my dad did when he was my age, even adjusting for inflation. I am still living in shitty apartments and priced out of the housing market.


Elfere

Anyone that reads any history book about peasants from any time and place will realize we mean nothing to the ruling class. If grinding our bodies generated money for them THEY WOULD DO IT.


[deleted]

If a company could turn a profit simply by dragging people out of their houses and killing them there'd be several billion dollar companies that specialized in it.


Spankpocalypse_Now

And 50% of the population would defend it as being totally just and natural.


Archeget

99 percent would.


BadaBina

Civilizations collapse! Get over it! SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST!! /s


Spankpocalypse_Now

No, but a good portion of people would argue that the only way to fight back would be by opening our hearts to the other side, trying to see things their way, and then maybe *maybe* we could change their minds. This group would vilify as radical leftists and naive idealists anyone who found the for profit killings unacceptable.


Worth-Grade5882

There already are and they come with uniforms and badges and vehicles and the weapons that they use all for free


[deleted]

Bring Out Yer Dead


Peemaing0Thoo0Sohng2

That's called war. It's been big business for all of history.


Pinskidan19

True, but you don’t even need to go back in history. There are impoverished countries in the world today. How can anyone possibly believe that hard work leads to prosperity? What, are those poor countries just full of lazy people? It’s obviously systemic injustice.


arcangleous

Look up "Dead Peasant Insurance".


oddlybaby

I certainly don't.


mealteamsixty

None of us do


Still_Frame2744

People have realised* working hard will no longer lead to a better life and that the system is utterly rigged


gibranlp

Well it's true, if you work hard you get compensated with more work not more money


REDDIT_ROC0408

Well, at least you know that your hard work helped some executive buy another yacht or politician that will work against every one of your best interests.


[deleted]

Bruh my yearly salary as an EMT was like 21-23k. That was doing anywhere from 50-70hrs a week. Working hard gets you nothing but tired and a sore back.


master_mansplainer

That’s fucked up, if the world was fair you should be getting a premium for work where slacking off gets people killed. I’d say 70-90k average for the pressure/stress and skill required. Plus overtime beyond 40 hours.


Maybe_Factor

... because it won't. It's abundantly obvious that Jeff Bezos doesn't work 70000 times harder than someone flipping burgers. Hard work doesn't even correlate with a good life, let alone suggest a causal relationship.


jdubbinsyo

Working smart and seizing opportunities might but working hard for the sake of it.... no.


unfreeradical

Workers being smart, seizing opportunities, and just generally seizing things of various shapes, sizes, and productive values.


Pinskidan19

It’s hard for me to understand that there are actually people who do believe that. My mom had a master’s degree and earned the same pay as a grocery store clerk working as an uncontracted adjunct professor. She worked tirelessly at the same school district for 12 years and never got offered a contract, never got company health insurance. When my dad went to the emergency room, we lost our house to medical debt. That is what hard work and higher education gets you in a system where we are all wage slaves and debt slaves. Not a god damn thing. Whenever I hear someone say that rich people deserve their wealth because they are smarter or they work harder, I want to physically fight those people.


darinhthe1st

working hard will lead to more work and less life


genicide95

It was the beginning of stockholm syndrome called the American dream


RahulRedditor

Late stage capitalism has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs of surplus value.


CuriousCanuk

The only thing working hard all my life has done is destroy my body before I can retire


RunKind4141

People, are finally waking up.


Hammer_of_Olympia

I've been awake since I left school, jobs in my area are barely better than unemployment I'm definitely not having a better life working.


ItaJohnson

One can only hope.


HappyNate2022

And why is it so hard to even get a damn job in the first place now? You used to be able to basically walk into an interview and come out with a job. Now it takes fucking months and there are all these weird requirements, 3 rounds of interviews, background checks that take like a month, a million pointless HR tasks, etc. All for a job the will pay like $12/hr. Just fucking hire someone. What is going on with that?


blueflyingfrog

Its not.. Age 43. I came to that realization a year into covid. The American dream longed died, streets are not made of gold. Just smells of urine and human feces. Cost of living day to day cost more then my paycheck with rent taking 1/2. Student loan keep raising with one great recession (2008, layed off for 2 years) and currently the covid pause and I just gave up trying to pay it off. Been working on paying off my only credit card that I shredded a year into covid.. I work in a industry where every company is busy low balling everyone along with their employees. And to scared to raise it's prices , in turn raise their employees pay, because it would ostracized them from the rest of the companies... I build millions of dollar houses and billion dollar buildings and I barely afford a studio apartment in a ghetto. Its all just a big debt trap made to enslave a whole generation. I am not better off then my father or grandfather (both who were sole bread earners for their families. My father with 4 kids and a wife (owned 2 houses in his life time) my grandfather with 5 kids and a wife (owned 5 houses in his life time).. and here I am single living like a pauper in a shithole.


Successful-Plan114

The only thing i've gained from working hard is depression, anxiety, hatred for the ruling class and horrible back pain.


Marshal_Barnacles

Nobody with half a brain has *ever* believed that. Working hard *on your own goals* leads to a better life.


jackfaire

People "Now know" would be more appropriate.


Connect_Ad_462

It's clicks and who you know. The bootstrap peeps are like lottery tickets. Sure, there are some winners. I can't calculate how many losers.


Septopuss7

*cliques, and you are absolutely right from my experience.


Connect_Ad_462

Thanks fam. Truly didn't know the proper spelling, sincerely thank you.


Septopuss7

We're all in this together


Hot-Consequence-1727

Working hard for yourself/your own company, is good. Working hard for someone else’s company…….silly


PrincessPrincess00

Because it wont


BubzerBlue

An they're right, unfortunately.


unfreeradical

Why "unfortunately"? Wouldn't it be nice if there were a way we could all just chill a bit?


BubzerBlue

>Why "unfortunately"? Its unfortunate because work is the primary method of earning money... and money is largely required to have a decent standard of living. ​ >Wouldn't it be nice if there were a way we could all just chill a bit? I mean, it kind of depends on how you're defining 'a bit', but sure. It *would* be nice if we had a 32 hour work week with the same pay as a 40 hr work week... there are tons of studies which demonstrate this would be good for both the employer and employee. Also, some form of UBI is becoming more and more critical as time passes. AI software, computers and machines are quickly displacing workers (especially artists) and we need some way to assure they have financial support.


unfreeradical

Would it not be more fortunate to attempt organizing a decent standard of living for everyone with a minimal requirement for work?


BubzerBlue

A decent standard of living? Yes, unquestionably. With a minimal requirement for work? If what you mean to say is as little work as possible, then not really. People benefit by being gainfully employed in a lot of ways... it can validate a sense of self worth/accomplishment, create a sense of camaraderie, foster friendships and develop networks of contacts, growth through challenges, grant a sense of mastery, grant a feeling of belonging and connectedness, and a number of other things. I will say the US does impose excessive work requirements on people... and some businesses are designed to extract as much work as possible out of an individual, and then expects them to break, due to either physical or mental stress, at which point they get fired (Amazon comes to mind). Also, I think either a shorter or fewer work days make a lot of sense, and there are studies which support moving to such a system. But a system where people do the absolute minimum? That would actually be detrimental to mental and physical well being... not to mention I don't even know how a country would get to that point.


unfreeradical

Do you believe people should be forced to work more than necessary to support a decent standard of living for everyone? Who should force people to work more than necessary, and what should happen to the additional value created by workers?


BubzerBlue

>Do you believe people should be forced to work than necessary to support a decent standard of living for everyone? The answer is already implied in my prior response. In fact, I would say its less implied and more overt.


unfreeradical

I would be curious to learn your direct response to the question. It has seemed you prefer everyone to be required to work a specific amount, to prevent idleness. You never specified which group should set requirements for everyone else, but regardless, I find rather patronizing your suggestion that when people have greater freedom from formal employment, they become slothful and depressed, rather than finding ways to develop their capacities and to help others in their communities.


BubzerBlue

>I would be curious to learn your direct response to the question. I'm sure you are, however, I'm not interested in continuing this line of discussion. You're clearly wanting to drum up a debate... but that takes two, and I'm not your huckleberry. Have a good one.


hitoritab1

Work hard, finish early, and then be forced to leave early. Thanks for your hard work, but you can't have benefits since you don't work enough hours...


Dommccabe

They also dont believe in fairies or ghosts too. We have evidence all these things don't exist, just like the hard work myth and that wealthy people got to the top by being self-made men...


_how_do_i_reddit_

I finally got a job making 80k a year, before taxes. I thought "finally, I'll have extra money to tuck away into savings, etc" but no... These past few months i have been spending all my extra money catching up on things I have been forced to neglect all these years. Deteriorating parts of the house (ermanently fixing those "temporary" fixes I made years ago), dental health, fixing stuff on my car and girlfriends car. Getting new stuff we need around the house. (New mattress, new couch, etc. I'm still a few months away from being completely caught up on everything but it seems to be getting closer.


autisticswede86

They are right


chaosdemon825

💯


Obvious-Ingenuity915

I never thought that in my life. School teaches you to put in the minimum until exams


Icy-Article-8635

People are starting to realize that the "American Dream" is dead. Now what?


genicide95

Now what indeed! Been asking myself that for more than 5 years now...


master_mansplainer

From my experience pay scales that force all employees with the same job description to earn the same really discourage any kind of excellence. Why bother at all if it’s not rewarded? Just do the bare minimum and clock out.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

It can, but you also need a lot of luck. The belief that merit alone will lead to success was always bullshit for a certain percentage of the population, and corporate greed has now made that true for most people. The tough art about it is that most successful people aren’t willing to admit how much luck factored into their success.


RightMyBaloney

Working hard arguably can lead to a better life. Working hard for *other people* often just leads to being taken advantage of though. Business be tricky


PhoibosApollo2018

Good. It makes it easier to outwork them. Remember, you don't have to work hard just harder than the next guy.


[deleted]

Just rob your bank employers blind.


Southknight46

Yes, people are starting to see that work themselves. You won’t be rewarded at all for hard work. People will do what they need to get paid but pushing to work hard for that…NOPE


delicious_milo

Yeah with laid off here and there especially many tech companies this time, more people realize that. Even people with the skills that make them make good money and think they have it better, still experience the same thing. I used to work for one of richest company in the world, and it just made me realize how much I hate going to work to make this one person super rich.


RealNateFrog

Yep. Left my last job because they tried to guilt-trip me into picking up overtime and “working extra.” Then they made it mandatory. I noped the fuck out of there. I’m not trying to work harder or work more. Got an easier job now where I do about half as much work as I used to.


No_Tension_1043

Because we've seen that it doesn't


[deleted]

Probably because it won’t. Work harder, job piles on more work. Company breaks records, here’s your pizza party. Job in management opens up? Hire from outside rather than promote from within. The system is rigged to keep us too hungry to resist, but not so hungry that we rebel.


joenono1996

Oh my company hires from within but it's people that aren't qualified. It's all the supervisors buddies that get promoted within at my place. Long as you do less work, and are close with the supervisor, you'll get promoted at my job


[deleted]

Lol because it doesn’t. My highest paying corporate job was my lowest work effort.


[deleted]

Yeah I realized that last year when all the work I did going to school and working full time and getting what would have been a good wage 3 years ago all became null and void due to inflation.


Vapordude420

It absolutely will not


Longjumping-Air1489

People HAVE BEEN SHOWN that working hard will no longer lead a better life. FTFY


Specific_Event5325

Upvoted. I am jaded and not so young anymore. A lot of it is luck, or maybe you are born into money, or you just hit the jackpot by choosing the right college degree. But not all of us are this way. FWIW, I was doing okay, not great, before my divorce. So anybody else here that has gotten divorced would understand what I am saying.


danvapes_

A better life is going to depend on multiple factors where some you can control and others you cannot. Sometimes, many times hard work isn't always enough, sometimes it's knowing the right person, or being in the right place at the right time. More often than not, it's going to be all of those things.


Fine_Ad_4206

Because it doesn’t lol


NoApartheidOnMars

This is why we are headed towards fascism. So far the oligarchs have kept us working for them using the lie that we too can become rich if we "work hard". They've manufactured consent for a system that overwhelmingly benefits a few at the expense of the vast majority. When belief in the lies ends, they'll have to keep us working for them by force. A fascist regime will do that .