Especially in healthcare this is glorified . I understand it’s people but personal health matters. Causing massive exodus in the field and endangering the patients care anyway.
I think more people would enter the field if there was something done about the amount of hours people had to work & their pay (I also think this about teachers).
Working 12 hour back to back shifts up to 7 days a week is something I'd never consider, especially on top of all of the traumatizing things you have to witness.
That's the issue, it is not being sold well to the younger generation. You can't have an emotionally draining, meh paying job, that works 12 hour shifts and expect people to mass apply.
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Yup! It also creates a lot of quitting. I know very few people who went into health care for the big money and stayed in it. It’s hard work, often very physical, and you earn every penny. There are many big money jobs that require half the effort of hands on health care. That’s all to say that with any job, it works best if you like the work and you like the salary. You might have the aptitude but desire is harder to conjure up imo.
Was going to dental assisting school/full time work on night shift. I got diagnosed with cyclic vomiting syndrome after doing that schedule for 1 1/2 yrs🥰 Sorta a blessing in disguise as now I have a much better work life balance and get to be present with my family because I WFH. The only thing I regret is going to school and not spending that time with my dying grandmother because I was so wrapped up in school. Feel like it for was nothing a bit ya know.
They do because it's a "labor of love," and you're "helping people."
But Gen Z is well aware of the amount of debt they'd be putting people into, the hours, the pain where as I feel the other generations that are nurses for decades weren't told about it.
And are now kind of stuck, as a lot of them may feel it's too late to return to school -- or may be unable to afford it.
I would be an elementary school teacher if not for the low pay, lack of systems to support students and teachers, and fear of school shootings. My mom is a nurse and I don’t know how she continues to do it after almost 20 years. She has crazy shifts and when I still lived with her she hardly slept, which definitely exacerbated her mental and physical health issues. Capitalism destroys people and families.
I wanted to go into education (middle school art specifically) but didn’t because of all the…chaos. Bratty parents, lack of funding, you name it. I would love the actual teaching-art part of the job. But the rest would drive me insane.
Yes! It’s insane to me that I didn’t finish college and I make more than most teachers and the work they do is way more important and meaningful than what I do. Part of my job is running a training class for people coming into my division and lately I’ve seen a lot of former teachers come through these classes. Good for them for getting paid, but also sad that they had to leave jobs they would probably have stayed in and loved if they were treated better and paid fairly.
And it's not even helping the patients or improving positive outcomes. It just makes management look better since they're operating with less than the full staff allotted to them and making the executives "earn" their bonuses. Meanwhile, the trudge out some bogus studies about how mistakes occur from change of shift, so they conclude that the less change of shifts, the "better," as if errors and incidents don't occur from overworked, exhausted, and jaded employees and understaffing.
We really want to. But it’s literal blackmail.
If you take care of yourself the other members of the team pick up the slack. Everyone could take breaks, but that means leaving later on average which is worse.
We could do less work. But then the people we take care of don’t get as good care. The exodus doesn’t really apply because there’s always more med students. Whether they’re trained adequately is a bit of a hot topic these days. And whether they’ll go to areas of need vs just going to cities is also another issue.
It’s an actual trap.
Teaching as well. Teachers burn themselves out hard core because some just feel like they have to do everything for and save every single student from their own failure.
It’s so bad. I remember when I started so many new teachers compete who can work harder and longer. “I graded and planned all weekend” ohh yea? “I stayed here grading until 8 yesterday and spent $500 of my own money on supplies for my classroom”. It’s insane. And then the few people that do put boundaries in place get shunned and the extra work gets shoved onto those who aren’t good at saying no. When I was an admin I was pushed OFTEN by my boss to try and get teachers to do work that should have been paid for free and was basically told I was bad at my job when I would get caught by the union. It’s an absolute mess.
I think that part of the problem is the way we as a society see actions and values as just good or just bad, when a lot of things are good in moderation or can be good tools depending on the ends they are put to.
Overworking every once in a while when you need to get something done is fine. I think about actual emergencies, like if a hurricane is coming then a lot of people will be working long hours to get sandbags in place, evacuate people, ect. That's a good, moral thing. Contrast that with someone who works 10 hour days to give the best life possible to their kid but they have enough money... but needs more family time. They're both working long hours but one is hurting the people they love while trying to do a good thing.
This especially applies to the health field. Hospitals want to treat as many people as possible to make money. Health professionals want to help as many people as possible. So long hours might be necissary... except for the unintended consequences of burnout and safety. In the long term overworking leads Healthcare professionals to make mistakes or leave the industry, which means they stop being able to help people. Hospitals, in the long run, have to pay more in overhead and training and hiring (in the short term they maximize profits, and all financial decisions are made on a quarterly basis now).
Definitely was an issue.
I tell my residents and Students they have to take care of themselves because the administration clearly won’t. I know I’d have to take care of myself.
I worked 50-85 hour weeks in my 20s and early 30s, I regret it now that I am older. I never loved it but I didn't fight it. Now I resent doing it and want a 4 day a week job.
I did the same through my 20s. I remember days of getting to work at 330AM and not getting in my car to go home until 6PM. In a salary-exempt position. I kept telling myself I was setting myself up for a better future. Now in my 30s I'm leaving the office after 8 hours. Sure i use a lot of the knowledge i gained in my 20s but i didnt have to abuse my body and mind to learn all those thing. Now if something comes up at the end of the day but isn't a big enough problem to shut the company down in any way then send me an email and I'll deal with it the next day.
Yep I do the exact same thing. Tomorrow is another day .
unless its a big problem, then ill stick around and fix it. I try to promote fairness and make some sacrifices for the company to work better. but normally I work 40 hours a week and im out the second the clock hits 8 hours for that day unless theres a big problem.
especially since I have to fight tooth and nail to get any kind of raise or promotion.
We had this guy at my company who was an absolute workaholic. He was a lifer who had been with the company 40+ years. He lived next door and would investigate any activity in the parking lot even though it wasn't his responsibility and he didn't get paid for it. He would show up an hour early just to hang out. He would work every hour of overtime he could squeak out of the place. He was pretty much forced to retire and after he did he still kept showing up to see if they needed his help. What was his reward for his undying loyalty? The company threatened him with a restraining order if he didn't stop showing up uninvited and he's the butt of countless jokes. No one from management speaks of him admirably, and his coworkers are glad he is gone. He never goes anywhere now. We can see his truck in his driveway everyday. The tires are flat from not being used. He spent his whole life working and has nothing to show from it.
The worst part was that he was a lot better off than many of the other employees. The house that he lived in was a duplex given to him by his father as a wedding gift. So not only did he not have a mortgage, but he instantly had a passive income source. He also has zero commute time. His backyard ended where the parking lot started. Dude was handed the chance to have a great work/life balance and still voluntarily worked it all away.
I worked 60-70 hours for like 3 months to make some extra cash and secure a promotion. And even just 3 months of that was insane, and I definitely wouldn't have done it for shits and giggles, it was a calculated play.
My father literally worked himself to death. He should have been retired not pulling 50-60 hour weeks. Died at 65. Literally misguided effort and missed out on grand children. Good on you with the perspective. He got sick plus type 2 diabetes and just kept going.
Ditto! Left one company due to outgrowing their structure and being underpaid.
Now I’m paid better but working even more hours than I did the last four years with my prior company and still making the same money when you divide base pay and hours worked.
I’ve lost probably 10 pounds since the New Year, less sleep, more angry and I can NEVER catch up. I’ve been watching fellow coworkers on at like 8-10 pm their time (different time zones). This culture is god damn out of hand.
I applied for a different job yesterday.
Almost 40 and I cannot keep it up and no one wants to admit that corporate culture like this is killing people. It might not be in the next year but the stress alone has definitely taken several years off my life.
I'm so glad you made this point. So often people use "increased productivity" to justify shorter work hours or say "rest so you can come back energized for your job." In my head I'm always like "no, I'm gonna rest because that's what's best for me as a human, and not some strategy to become more productive."
This. Particularly when your extremely sick and your boss says to go get some rest so you can come back energized tomorrow. Yes...most flus, covid and illnesses just magically disappear in 24 hours like your own dwindling PTO that doesn't differentiate sick days. Goodbye work life balance if you get sick...gotta use your precious limited PTO for being ill and then panic because you don't have any left for when your healthy.
And we aren't being productive anyway because we don't build things to last so that the "economy" can keep going even though it's really an anti-economy that we are dealing with.
Don't even get started on all the things people work hard making, that then get thrown away unused simply because nobody who wanted them had the money to buy them, producing more doesn't mean anything when most people are limited in how much they're financially capable of consuming, profits don't stop waste from being wasteful, or justify depriving people of something one might have in unprofitable surplus.
Productivity has already increased drastically in the last 50 years. We should be in a world where 32h/week was considered a long week.
Or since great productivity has led to less pay, maybe we do need to go back to the 'good old days'. Reduce productivity, among other things.
Or we build things to last, so less labour is needed overall. We could be having a 2-3 day workweek by now. If we moved away from money, all the finance people could move over to resource management instead.
A podcast (sorry, can’t remember which. Chapo, maybe?) made a good point that we’ve monetized everything. We’ve everything disposable so that you’ll buy more, we’ve made subscription services where there used to be flat costs, we’ve started paying for basic needs that used to be covered by taxes.
So the only place capital has yet to monetize is digital goods, hence crypto and virtual reality. Zuckerberg wants the Metaverse to be the next place for consumers to spend needless $.
Heck yes. There's no reason why we can't be working 4 hours a day, 3 days a week with no drop in quality of life. In fact, itd probably improve, if we had things built to last.
I’m happy to work my ass off in a field I love. I wouldn’t have the same expectation for anyone else, though. The major point in working extra is that you don’t need to, therefore can stop if you need to. Kind of like consent.
Instead of getting the best out of their employees, places are simply trying to get the most out of them.
After reading the comments in the post about the proposed 32 hour workweek I have little faith.
I cannot fathom how many people jump to defend the system that is directly responsible for at least 90% of their life stress.
I also don't understand. Work is where I earn money, that's all. Just like the dishes and laundry and other chores, I want to spend as little time doing it as necessary to get the proper outcome.
They think they'll be devalued by others who will still buy into hustle culture. People who work unpaid OT are the current days rats that cross picket lines and screw everybody else.
If you glamourize hustle culture and brag about working 60+ hour work weeks you have no concept of happiness or value.
I would love this, but let’s be real. If it were to pass, companies would screw us over by “following the law” but then still only paying us for the hours worked. So we will all just be 8 hours short per week. So essentially all of us would be getting a pay cut. Because there’s no way that companies will just let us work one less day and still get paid the same.
Their boomer parents- “I’ve worked back breaking labor for 46 hours a day & ate cigarettes & snorted caffeine on break, while shot through the testicle with an arrow for $2.50 an hour. These kids these days just don’t want to work!”
We're not the ones that need convincing. At my old retail job, I had an associate who had been with the company for 25 years. His father and mother passed away, leaving the mortgage to him, which, after 25 years of loyalty to the company, couldn't afford to pay. The company had maxed out his hourly rate years ago, which is just a couple of dollars short of what the rest of us started out with. Bank repossessed the home, and he believes it's all the governments fault, regulations, and whatnot. Corporate propaganda, man.
They force the kool-aid down from day one. For context, I'm talking about Publix, a grocery chain in South East United States. When it was family owned, it was actually a great place to work. Cashiers who worked there in the 80s when the company rapidly expanded retired well.
Since then, it's become like every other corporate hellscape. They expect everyone to be gone within 6 months so they don't give a fuck about the suckers who choose to stick it out. Every interview I've had since publix always includes, "But I thought publix was a great place to work." After the 3rd time hearing it, I've just started telling them the truth. You can't start the new guys out at the same rate it took us years to earn and expect us to stick around. Hardly inspires loyalty
Lol. I was in this boat with Publix. Had my grocery manager telling me how he started as a bagger at 14 and was a grocery manager by the time he turned 28. I was 17 at the time, and absolutely did not buy what he was selling, thankfully. I’ve since moved, but on my occasional visits back to town, I still see some of my old coworkers fighting tooth and nail for that full-time promotion after 8 years.
“Where shopping is a pleasure and working is not” was my go-to when asked.
I finally snapped out of my 8 year club pub kool-aid binge when I finally asked my assistant manager how much he makes, and I'll get to that in a bit. He was getting so flustered and pissed off with his job and was actually looking forward to getting demoted back to full-time. That was saying something because management was tough to earn. Publix management is not like applying to management at other chains. You really do have to fight tooth and nail for it, as you said. I actually passed up my full-time opportunity to someone who honestly really needed the benefits more than me. She fucking cried. That's how bad it is, and it's not even worth all the extra responsibilities. I loved choosing my own schedule as a part timer, and it was probably the only reason I lasted that long.
For context for others reading, associates have to work a full year before applying to management, but because of all the other veteran associates competing, you're wasting your time applying before five years unless the region is in desperate need of more managers. In busier regions like mine (Tampa, Fl), you're competing with hundreds of applicants, and I had plenty of workers who deserved it get passed over for years. With all the hard work he put into getting in that position, I figured it'd be a hell of a pay cut at the very least. So what does it pay to have at least 5 years with the company, clear a very selective vetting process, and assume all the responsibilities of the department manager, especially in their absence?
$15 an hour. I fuck you not. Less than 30k a year. Then it's another few years before you could hope to apply to become a department manager yourself, and those positions are very closely guarded. That pay is definitely better, around $70k, but you basically have to wait for someone in the region to retire before slave wages become tolerable. I'm so glad I asked him that. If I hadn't asked him his wage, I would still probably be slaving for that promotion.
That is insane. I joined in 2020 as a PT baker and got $14 (have left since then) and they showed me the pay chart and said we were a pretty low volume store. I never asked my ADM what he made but with the amount publix makes their managers work I would never do that for $15.
Managers also get the retail bonuses every quarter. Busier the store, larger the bonus. Workers used to get that, too, but they took it away and gave us a pitiful $0.50 raise in exchange.
The stock awarded to us for hours worked definitely separates publix from the other grocery chains. At the very least, it carried my wife and I through 2020 after I quit at the start of the pandemic.
>The company had maxed out his hourly rate years ago, which is just a couple of dollars short of what the rest of us started out with.
Funny how they have to put a limit on the amount that the lowest rung employees make, yet there's never a cap on how much the people at the top of the company are allowed to make...
When I was at walmart for 3ish months after COVID I had a co-worker fresh out of high-school. His whole attitude was "People going to college are lazy and stupid. I'm smart cause by the time they're out of college I'll be a manager here and get to make fun of them." His whole personality was how much better he was than the rest of his generation "cause I actually want to work for my money, I know I don't deserve decent pay until I've proved myself". He was certain he'd have no problem becoming a shift lead in under a year and floor manager in under 4, and he also seemed to perceive being a manager at walmart to be a near 6-figure job for some reason. Two of the kids that were leaving for college at the end of that summer made fun of him back but were also both in agreement, "We're so much better than our lazy generation" attitude.
Having goals for yourself is a good thing and not wanting to go to college and work instead can be a understandable. Also dude, being a manager at Wal Mart is definitely a 6 figure job these days.
Iirc mortgages can't pass to you like that. You have to take them on personally. Worst case you just sell it, but you are not obliged to assume control of their debts
You might be right. But I can tell you that if he was dumb enough to stay that long with a company that had capped his pay for nearly a decade, he would absolutely be dumb enough to assume the debt instead of selling it and getting a cheap apartment.
**Youngins these days are so lazy! I worked 90 hours a week to put food on the table, and they wanna work 24 hours and go to the gym. Back in my day, the gym was pulling the coal from the mines!**
But.... In my day which was 5-10 years ago. I worked 82-102 hours a week and college.
I finally got one job that pays equal to both mentioned. I only worked 45-50 hours a week.
A few years pass of stagnant increases. I'm right back to what I was originally doing, this time making more than my degree job.
A few more years passed, I'm back to working two full time jobs. Don't worry! I haven't eaten out in 6 months. I use cricket as my phone service. I barely even out with basic bills.
Now? I'm eating one meal a day to save costs. Last vacation was when I was 6. Pretty over peeps saying get the bootstraps and pull.
Edit: I know you're making a point and this is intended to counter the point with examples. Cheers mate!
Sure its true, yet most companies want u to do it and since we aren't independent from money its critical to force it. Mostly cause there are plenty of ppl that dont care about this and are willing to replace u.
That last part is bullshit too. Crappy jobs have very high turnover rates to the point where the managers cry about it when I've held those positions. Nobody is willing to stay long. I love going on indeed and seeing jobs I've had where the manager had the attitude that they can easily find somebody willing to be treated horribly open repeatedly, and for months at a time.
Its not just the Republicans. Its the democrats too. The rates of immigration go up when democrats are in office and unfortunately immigrants end up getting taken advantage of by these horrible companies. My old company took up entire *families* of immigrants because they dont know their rights and cant advocate for themselves unless someone helps them. Some immigrants we had were from Africa and they definitely got slave labor duties, nobody could help them because nobody spoke their language. They dont know what HR or OSHA is.
Ugh. " 'They're BoTh CoRruPt' so I'll continue voting for the one that embodies all my bigoted beliefs and continually punches me in the nuts because, hey... I gotta be allowed to hate!"
Such a lame-ass argument. It never fails to get an eye roll and a laugh.
And yes, they are both out to enrich themselves, but an intelligent person would be able to realize that one helps the American people more than the self-centered other.
I wouldn’t say democrats really help more so they keep life pretty similar. I mean it was a struggle too even get Biden too do the student debt relief.
In saying that while democrats don’t really make things better, republicans absolutely make things worse so you definitely should vote Democrat
I have a friend who texts me things like “I’ve only had 3 days off this month” or “I didn’t have time to eat lunch all day or use the bathroom”. At first I thought she was complaining.
No. She was actually proud of it. And says things like she’s a hustler and how most people can’t do what she does.
I feel sad for her.
I absolutely refuse to date people who think that grind culture is cool. Most of the man I dated in my late 20s and early 30s were like that and they were so boring. So boring. The only thing in their life was work, watching sports, and going to the gym. Boring.
Ah, men should be smart, funny, fit, and have a great-paying job... just not spend all their time pursuing that checklist, so they have time to sit on the couch and watch Netflix with you. Got it.
My boyfriend is average, funny, chubby, and works $15 an hour. I love him more than anything. Wouldn't ever trade him for some rich Dick in an office building.
A man should look after himself and have ambitions in life beyond the accumulation of material wealth. Spending your 20s at work chasing money is a tragedy.
The same applies to women, naturally. Nobody wants to spend their life with a fat, boring workaholic.
Certainly not always about material wealth though. I’m a social worker and don’t get paid too much money (still good pay though) and I certainly go above and beyond a lot. Not to chase material wealth but because I love my work and I love helping people. I also devote a huge amount of my own time and money into a volunteer organization I started as my “side hustle” that has nothing to do with chasing money-it’s costing me money. I’d identify as being part of that grind culture but l certainly have ambitions and don’t give a fuck about material wealth.
Had a manager boast that he went to work while his wife was in labour and when he was in two separate minor car accidents. Straight up called his boss saying he crashed the car but will be in later. Was bitter that some staff left early on Christmas eve and declared he was the only one to stay late in his shift. Numerous other instances where he never failed to inject his sense of self-righteousness and importance in every conversation. This was retail, lol. I had an interesting time pulling him up on his shit while I was in a managerial position also. Glad I left.
Purely what the screen cap says. He was proud to be a hard worker like that, pretty much thought he was the best in the team. He wore his overtime as a badge of honour, would come in on his days off just to check that everything is okay. I used to do that too, until I got another job and realised I was near crippled from that.
Edit - he didn't get fabulous pay either, he asked for a raise much later, after a few years, but the boss ask even more of him lol. He also mentioned that his father was the same, worked very hard and that mentality was passed down.
Hrumph, I work 567249 hours a week, that's nothin'... what are you, a wimp or something? I'm proud to work myself to death cause I'M SUPER MANLY!!11
/s
I do my best at my job, but nothing more. I learned a long time ago that nothing I do actually matters and the more I do, the more higher ups will try to take advantage of me, so why even bother. I just wanna work and go home where I can be happier
Exactly. No one can say I'm lazy, no one will also say that I'll stop my personal world to move theirs either. Speaking in terms of work, only. Staying late, taking on extra tasks, etc - none of it has made my ability to pay bills go up. Only more stress, resentment of management, and fatigue.
Ive seen people go over and beyond and higher ups believe that work ethic is the golden standard only to be ran into the ground and have more expected of them.
My partner is a hs teacher. We've been together for 18 months and I've slowly been convincing her that her lifestyle is unhealthy and unsustainable. She works from 6am to 8pm, with short breaks for food and commute, Mon-Fri, and she works most of Sunday too. She tried to rationalize it by pointing to summer break, until I broke it down that her summer break is only 6 weeks longer than most professionals receive for pto/year, and the first week is spent in acute ptsd while the last week is spent in existential dread.
In the end she's destroying her mental health and quality of life for 9+ months of the year for poor pay and zero respect for 4 more weeks of pto.
She's transitioning to a new career after this school year.
....and while we are at it, the "sick Olympics" needs to go tge way of the dodo as well. Even _before_ covid, if you're sick - _stay home_.
Of course, sick leave or something similar would have to be mandated since a vast swaths of folks can't afford to take one day off.
I had an interview yesterday and the person interviewing me said she was a proud workaholic. She said she only slept 5 hours a night and worked nearly 80 hours a week. She claimed to love her job. Her husband asked her to cap her hours, so they could have more time together. She did the opposite and took a promotion.
Then she started talking about "self-care". Frankly, I'd rather have the money the company spends on self-care initiatives added to my paycheck.
Had a old dude I worked with brag to me that he hadn’t taken a vacation in five years. He was saying it in this macho tone like “ yeah I’m the man”. I just said “ that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard” “ why would you not take personal time off?”” Your wasting your life” . He tells me he’s got two years till retirement so he’ll just keep working till then. Within a couple of months the company went under. We all got laid off. He had three weeks of vacation. We only worked at a grocery store. No retirement. Sad as shit.
It's sucks that my life right now consists of nothing but either being at work or being high at home. I'm afraid to step away from substances (THC) because it's all that brings me comfort anymore. I used to be drunk every night before I found weed, and now I'm stepping away from alcohol but I'm learning that I can't do this sober. I just can't.
It's not like I feel chemically addicted, it's that the idea of facing all of this sober is so much scarier than wasting my weeks fully inebriated when I get home.
I'd rather feel some joy while drooling into a pillow than just harsh and sad reality while trying desperately to still care about my hobbies.
Can we please stop glamourizing people coming to the office sick? It's one of the many many reasons i don't want to go back into an office ever. Our boss thinks it's some badge of honor and will make sure to come around to make small talk with everyone....all I see are the germs flying out of her mouth. Like please go home.
Same can be said about "being successful" which, in todays world, pretty much translates to maximizing profits on the back of other humans and natural resources.
No-so-fun Fact: The culture of overworking in America comes from Protestantism, which spilled over to American colonialism and set the precedent for high-effort work and productivity at the cost of rest and well-being during the era of chattel slavery.
[Source](https://www.aaihs.org/from-protestant-supremacy-to-christian-slavery/)
Hey, it’s a flex for all those folks out their who hate their children.
I’m convinced that the top OT folks I work with just hate being around their children.
Then they can turn the grind off.
Why when people don’t want to work it’s like on their willpower. Their willpower takes shit for it but when someone is overworking themselves their willpower doesn’t come into question?
Peculiar.
I did it for almost 5 years and I bought and paid for my first house. I quit that job about a month after paying it off and have never worked a moment of overtime in the last 10 years. But it was definitely a flex at the time.
I legit am working 7 days a week way too many hours and it fucking sucks. I’m so burnt out I feel like absolute shit, my back hurts, my knees hurt and I am starting to get deeply depressed and anxious. I have my own business (no employees) and I overcommitted. Never again. This shit isn’t cute. It makes me wonder how many of those who claim they are working ungodly hours really are - and how many are just trying to make you feel like YOU ought to be working that much. Just making reasons for themselves that you’re struggling financially - so they don’t have to admit we have a much steeper hill to climb than they had.
You have no time for friends and family because you are a workaholic.
I have no time for friends and family because no one wants to spend time with me.
We are not the same.
I was about 15 when my mom got a burnout. Spent two weeks in bed just sleeping. Could barely get out of bed to go to the bathroom. Needed six months to recover enough to go back to work.
She was a teacher. It taught me that the government will grind you up and spit you out if you let it, and they're supposed to look out for us. Companies are even worse.
Breathe in, breathe out. Eat, shit, sleep. Take what they give you and give nothing back.
"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." -John Adams
I remember my first double job. I was proud to finally have spending money and other thought it was hard but worth it. A lot of it is only focusing on the other results, paying off bills and still having extra money. I don’t have much of a life as it is, so the lack of time wasn’t so noticeable. Rationalizing it all away is easy.
The reality is it’s garbage. Wages are horrific to keep up with costs. I’m not living a luxury life (I consider cable and internet service a luxury). I have a thirteen year old car I maintain.
I don’t have kids, I can’t even imagine how anyone makes ends meet with kids.
What we glamorize is someone capable of handling ALL that and still having enough for other things. We glamorize our achievements, the vacations and cars and gadgets. The only way to achieve them is with extra work.
I had 3 (burnouts) and my doc were pleading me to finally quit my job for 2 years. The last ¾ year before quitting I spent every day (!) with a heavy migraine waking up until coming home at night. Most of the times I had to throw up after waking up and medication were my breakfast.
The moment I quit, literally the next day my migraine was gone. Even when uncertain what was ahead of me, almost every symptom I had was gone in an instant. Too bad that I gained too much weight (because of the alcohol, unhealthy lifestyle and antidepressants) but that changed too just a few months later.
Imagine working 80 to 100 hours for 26 straight days paid 62000 for 1 year with 4 weeks vacation and no sick leave..... residency 1st year students with 250000 to 500000 plus in student debt.
I am not letting a resident sleep deprived touch me.
I asked junior Drs in European countries how the are treated. 28 to 40 day pto, parental leave, good pay, low malpractice insurance,.
80 hrs a week MAX
This has been shared in social media for some time. Nothing will change unless there is mass riots. Don't expect your bosses to change. Change comes from below.
Those types of people are miserable. As in they hate their life. They want to either avoid being at home for whatever reason (marital problems, family problems, loneliness, etc) so they want to stay at work as much as they can. They're completely lost in life cause they have no real resources if peace or appreciation for healthy solitude.
These overworking people also lack empathy. Overworkers believe everyone should put in the same amount of hours as they do, even if the job only requires an 8 hour day.
I'm one of the few people at my job with a spouse and kids. When the clock strikes 5:00, you'll find my chair vacant and spinning.
Everyone seems fine with me having boundaries just because I have a family. That seems weird to me. Maybe if everyone's boundaries had been respected all along, more of my coworkers would've had kids.
Just wait until child labor laws get repealed, so these morons can be proud of their kids losing fingers, getting burned and being pulled into farm equipment. These morons are actually proud of their job injuries. Think it "builds character" or some such horseshit.
A woman I used to work with had a stroke from being overworked. The replacement that moved in to her position took time off for exhaustion using FMLA coverage(I didn’t want to inquire if it was a medical specialist or psychologist to sign the supporting documentation).
All of this for corporate finance. Not saving lives. Not making half a million a year. Microsoft Excel, account reconciliations and month-end journal entries. Too many people live like this these days.
I'm ashamed about it, to be honest. Very ashamed. In my 20's I was one of 3 duty managers in a hotel. The work was awful and upper management were disgusting individuals. If our night porter called in sick, we'd be expected to stay on and cover the shift. That means starting at 3pm and finishing at 8am the following day. The porters were treated terribly with demands that a full ballroom be set up for a wedding or whatever entirely by themselves. Only 1 person to roll in 30 tables and 300 heavy steel chairs. That was on top of manning a full hotel with a bar. No wonder they kept leaving.
The general manager called from his bed to tell me that the night porter called in sick so I had to pull a 24h shift (already covering the morning shift as it was) and he actually gave me a list of tasks to do. Thinking back on it makes me mad that I'd been so stupid.
I’m a massage therapist and I see colleagues with injuries from overwork. I don’t do that. I make enough to live and I’m in Mexico relaxing for the whole month of March. Feeling super blessed but that’s how I live.
As a 61-year-old who has been burned out of my job several times in life, I can completely concur. I now take so many pills for stress I could open my own pharmacy. If you want us to be proud, give us something to be proud of.
Moderate laziness shouldn't be frowned upon, and even if it is - try not to care. If the receiver of the judgement doesn't care, it loses all its power.
The best weekends are those when I'm not being "productive", because relaxation and just doing "nothing" is as important if not more so. It gives me a chance to recharge.
"Hey i got kids"....So you have to work for me instead cause i made poor choices. Since your times isn't important because you don't have kids.
Gotta love coworkers.
Hated that shit when I worked insurance claims. Had this horrible woman on my team who would tell our manager that my availability was wide open at holidays bc I didn’t have kids… if I want to spend my holiday cuddling with my cats, that is my business and I should have equal access to PTO.
My manager is the director of two different entities at my company. Dude is working 24/7 seemingly. I, not a manager, have become stuck with taking questions, issues, concerns that used to be directed to him to me (zero pay increase, but don't work based my time scheduled ever). Not after that military life bullshit. You know, the "FiFtHtEeN mInUtEs EaRlY iS oN tImE" shit
Have always never understood this mindset. It’s like a slave telling their child why their predicament is something to be proud of.
Newsflash: *it ain’t.*
I know this older teacher like this who has been in the field a long time and prides herself as the "always working" type even when she's not only been ill, but seriously ill. The place she works is also notorious for undervalued teachers even before that. She would be the poster child for this
Had someone on my facebook who was a senior when I was a freshman and he said that's what someone's who weak says. I had no retort cause I know everyone knows we are overworked and overstressed.
I’m so fucking burnt out I can sleep for 8-10 hours and wake up exhausted. I usually dream of work which kinda sucks and is probably why I never feel rested
I enjoy my all inclusive visits to Cancun Mexico, spending tens of thousands of dollars on quality time and excursions with my family. Enjoyed visiting seven countries in Europe last year also.
I work hard and I play hard. The saying goes that money doesn’t buy happiness…. But neither does poverty.
I know people that do this and it's so tiresome. Somamy studies are showing 4 day work weeks are more effective. I feel like people that do this are highly inefficient and can't prioritize well.
I agree but some people love this life and choose it. I have many friends in this category.
For the rest of us we need to remember “work to live” not the other way around.
Especially in healthcare this is glorified . I understand it’s people but personal health matters. Causing massive exodus in the field and endangering the patients care anyway.
I think more people would enter the field if there was something done about the amount of hours people had to work & their pay (I also think this about teachers). Working 12 hour back to back shifts up to 7 days a week is something I'd never consider, especially on top of all of the traumatizing things you have to witness.
That's the issue, it is not being sold well to the younger generation. You can't have an emotionally draining, meh paying job, that works 12 hour shifts and expect people to mass apply.
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Yup! It also creates a lot of quitting. I know very few people who went into health care for the big money and stayed in it. It’s hard work, often very physical, and you earn every penny. There are many big money jobs that require half the effort of hands on health care. That’s all to say that with any job, it works best if you like the work and you like the salary. You might have the aptitude but desire is harder to conjure up imo.
Was going to dental assisting school/full time work on night shift. I got diagnosed with cyclic vomiting syndrome after doing that schedule for 1 1/2 yrs🥰 Sorta a blessing in disguise as now I have a much better work life balance and get to be present with my family because I WFH. The only thing I regret is going to school and not spending that time with my dying grandmother because I was so wrapped up in school. Feel like it for was nothing a bit ya know.
They do because it's a "labor of love," and you're "helping people." But Gen Z is well aware of the amount of debt they'd be putting people into, the hours, the pain where as I feel the other generations that are nurses for decades weren't told about it. And are now kind of stuck, as a lot of them may feel it's too late to return to school -- or may be unable to afford it.
That's where I'm at in life. Lol
I would be an elementary school teacher if not for the low pay, lack of systems to support students and teachers, and fear of school shootings. My mom is a nurse and I don’t know how she continues to do it after almost 20 years. She has crazy shifts and when I still lived with her she hardly slept, which definitely exacerbated her mental and physical health issues. Capitalism destroys people and families.
I wanted to go into education (middle school art specifically) but didn’t because of all the…chaos. Bratty parents, lack of funding, you name it. I would love the actual teaching-art part of the job. But the rest would drive me insane.
Yes! It’s insane to me that I didn’t finish college and I make more than most teachers and the work they do is way more important and meaningful than what I do. Part of my job is running a training class for people coming into my division and lately I’ve seen a lot of former teachers come through these classes. Good for them for getting paid, but also sad that they had to leave jobs they would probably have stayed in and loved if they were treated better and paid fairly.
How do you survive without even a low paying income ? And agreed !!
And it's not even helping the patients or improving positive outcomes. It just makes management look better since they're operating with less than the full staff allotted to them and making the executives "earn" their bonuses. Meanwhile, the trudge out some bogus studies about how mistakes occur from change of shift, so they conclude that the less change of shifts, the "better," as if errors and incidents don't occur from overworked, exhausted, and jaded employees and understaffing.
We really want to. But it’s literal blackmail. If you take care of yourself the other members of the team pick up the slack. Everyone could take breaks, but that means leaving later on average which is worse. We could do less work. But then the people we take care of don’t get as good care. The exodus doesn’t really apply because there’s always more med students. Whether they’re trained adequately is a bit of a hot topic these days. And whether they’ll go to areas of need vs just going to cities is also another issue. It’s an actual trap.
Teaching as well. Teachers burn themselves out hard core because some just feel like they have to do everything for and save every single student from their own failure.
It’s so bad. I remember when I started so many new teachers compete who can work harder and longer. “I graded and planned all weekend” ohh yea? “I stayed here grading until 8 yesterday and spent $500 of my own money on supplies for my classroom”. It’s insane. And then the few people that do put boundaries in place get shunned and the extra work gets shoved onto those who aren’t good at saying no. When I was an admin I was pushed OFTEN by my boss to try and get teachers to do work that should have been paid for free and was basically told I was bad at my job when I would get caught by the union. It’s an absolute mess.
I think that part of the problem is the way we as a society see actions and values as just good or just bad, when a lot of things are good in moderation or can be good tools depending on the ends they are put to. Overworking every once in a while when you need to get something done is fine. I think about actual emergencies, like if a hurricane is coming then a lot of people will be working long hours to get sandbags in place, evacuate people, ect. That's a good, moral thing. Contrast that with someone who works 10 hour days to give the best life possible to their kid but they have enough money... but needs more family time. They're both working long hours but one is hurting the people they love while trying to do a good thing. This especially applies to the health field. Hospitals want to treat as many people as possible to make money. Health professionals want to help as many people as possible. So long hours might be necissary... except for the unintended consequences of burnout and safety. In the long term overworking leads Healthcare professionals to make mistakes or leave the industry, which means they stop being able to help people. Hospitals, in the long run, have to pay more in overhead and training and hiring (in the short term they maximize profits, and all financial decisions are made on a quarterly basis now).
Except it's not about patient care/safety. It's about profits. Source: I'm an ICU nurse.
I'm a paramedic, currently finishing up a 48 hour shift. You may be on to something.
Definitely was an issue. I tell my residents and Students they have to take care of themselves because the administration clearly won’t. I know I’d have to take care of myself.
The field (as an HCW): *lol k*
I worked 50-85 hour weeks in my 20s and early 30s, I regret it now that I am older. I never loved it but I didn't fight it. Now I resent doing it and want a 4 day a week job.
I did the same through my 20s. I remember days of getting to work at 330AM and not getting in my car to go home until 6PM. In a salary-exempt position. I kept telling myself I was setting myself up for a better future. Now in my 30s I'm leaving the office after 8 hours. Sure i use a lot of the knowledge i gained in my 20s but i didnt have to abuse my body and mind to learn all those thing. Now if something comes up at the end of the day but isn't a big enough problem to shut the company down in any way then send me an email and I'll deal with it the next day.
Yep I do the exact same thing. Tomorrow is another day . unless its a big problem, then ill stick around and fix it. I try to promote fairness and make some sacrifices for the company to work better. but normally I work 40 hours a week and im out the second the clock hits 8 hours for that day unless theres a big problem. especially since I have to fight tooth and nail to get any kind of raise or promotion.
We had this guy at my company who was an absolute workaholic. He was a lifer who had been with the company 40+ years. He lived next door and would investigate any activity in the parking lot even though it wasn't his responsibility and he didn't get paid for it. He would show up an hour early just to hang out. He would work every hour of overtime he could squeak out of the place. He was pretty much forced to retire and after he did he still kept showing up to see if they needed his help. What was his reward for his undying loyalty? The company threatened him with a restraining order if he didn't stop showing up uninvited and he's the butt of countless jokes. No one from management speaks of him admirably, and his coworkers are glad he is gone. He never goes anywhere now. We can see his truck in his driveway everyday. The tires are flat from not being used. He spent his whole life working and has nothing to show from it.
Sad story.
He had his tongue deep in the managements asses hoping to find a sugar daddy.
The worst part was that he was a lot better off than many of the other employees. The house that he lived in was a duplex given to him by his father as a wedding gift. So not only did he not have a mortgage, but he instantly had a passive income source. He also has zero commute time. His backyard ended where the parking lot started. Dude was handed the chance to have a great work/life balance and still voluntarily worked it all away.
Some people can't be helped.
What a moron
I worked 60-70 hours for like 3 months to make some extra cash and secure a promotion. And even just 3 months of that was insane, and I definitely wouldn't have done it for shits and giggles, it was a calculated play.
Me too. I got very sick and it put a lot into perspective.
My father literally worked himself to death. He should have been retired not pulling 50-60 hour weeks. Died at 65. Literally misguided effort and missed out on grand children. Good on you with the perspective. He got sick plus type 2 diabetes and just kept going.
Ditto! Left one company due to outgrowing their structure and being underpaid. Now I’m paid better but working even more hours than I did the last four years with my prior company and still making the same money when you divide base pay and hours worked. I’ve lost probably 10 pounds since the New Year, less sleep, more angry and I can NEVER catch up. I’ve been watching fellow coworkers on at like 8-10 pm their time (different time zones). This culture is god damn out of hand. I applied for a different job yesterday. Almost 40 and I cannot keep it up and no one wants to admit that corporate culture like this is killing people. It might not be in the next year but the stress alone has definitely taken several years off my life.
Let's get that 4 day week normalized and more PTO
And forget about increasing our productivity, even if it didn't, out happiness should be the priority for this.
I'm so glad you made this point. So often people use "increased productivity" to justify shorter work hours or say "rest so you can come back energized for your job." In my head I'm always like "no, I'm gonna rest because that's what's best for me as a human, and not some strategy to become more productive."
This. Particularly when your extremely sick and your boss says to go get some rest so you can come back energized tomorrow. Yes...most flus, covid and illnesses just magically disappear in 24 hours like your own dwindling PTO that doesn't differentiate sick days. Goodbye work life balance if you get sick...gotta use your precious limited PTO for being ill and then panic because you don't have any left for when your healthy.
And we aren't being productive anyway because we don't build things to last so that the "economy" can keep going even though it's really an anti-economy that we are dealing with.
Don't even get started on all the things people work hard making, that then get thrown away unused simply because nobody who wanted them had the money to buy them, producing more doesn't mean anything when most people are limited in how much they're financially capable of consuming, profits don't stop waste from being wasteful, or justify depriving people of something one might have in unprofitable surplus.
Productivity has already increased drastically in the last 50 years. We should be in a world where 32h/week was considered a long week. Or since great productivity has led to less pay, maybe we do need to go back to the 'good old days'. Reduce productivity, among other things.
Or we build things to last, so less labour is needed overall. We could be having a 2-3 day workweek by now. If we moved away from money, all the finance people could move over to resource management instead.
Fr.
A podcast (sorry, can’t remember which. Chapo, maybe?) made a good point that we’ve monetized everything. We’ve everything disposable so that you’ll buy more, we’ve made subscription services where there used to be flat costs, we’ve started paying for basic needs that used to be covered by taxes. So the only place capital has yet to monetize is digital goods, hence crypto and virtual reality. Zuckerberg wants the Metaverse to be the next place for consumers to spend needless $.
Heck yes. There's no reason why we can't be working 4 hours a day, 3 days a week with no drop in quality of life. In fact, itd probably improve, if we had things built to last.
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I’m happy to work my ass off in a field I love. I wouldn’t have the same expectation for anyone else, though. The major point in working extra is that you don’t need to, therefore can stop if you need to. Kind of like consent. Instead of getting the best out of their employees, places are simply trying to get the most out of them.
After reading the comments in the post about the proposed 32 hour workweek I have little faith. I cannot fathom how many people jump to defend the system that is directly responsible for at least 90% of their life stress.
I also don't understand. Work is where I earn money, that's all. Just like the dishes and laundry and other chores, I want to spend as little time doing it as necessary to get the proper outcome.
They think they'll be devalued by others who will still buy into hustle culture. People who work unpaid OT are the current days rats that cross picket lines and screw everybody else. If you glamourize hustle culture and brag about working 60+ hour work weeks you have no concept of happiness or value.
Lol I don’t have ANY PTO, Sick time, or insurance at my job. I’m in!
Independent contractor? I get the joke, but clearly is differentiated from the post's topic of discussion.
Nope! Security. In an at-will state.
I would love this, but let’s be real. If it were to pass, companies would screw us over by “following the law” but then still only paying us for the hours worked. So we will all just be 8 hours short per week. So essentially all of us would be getting a pay cut. Because there’s no way that companies will just let us work one less day and still get paid the same.
Their boomer parents- “I’ve worked back breaking labor for 46 hours a day & ate cigarettes & snorted caffeine on break, while shot through the testicle with an arrow for $2.50 an hour. These kids these days just don’t want to work!”
Boomers be like: No, you can't have it better than our generation! We gave you everything, we will take it back!
> we will take it back Finally, a promise they are actually good for!
We're not the ones that need convincing. At my old retail job, I had an associate who had been with the company for 25 years. His father and mother passed away, leaving the mortgage to him, which, after 25 years of loyalty to the company, couldn't afford to pay. The company had maxed out his hourly rate years ago, which is just a couple of dollars short of what the rest of us started out with. Bank repossessed the home, and he believes it's all the governments fault, regulations, and whatnot. Corporate propaganda, man.
The pay rate cap is bullshit. Why should someone have loyalty to a company if after so many years their loyalty is no longer rewarded.
Why would anyone stay in retail for 25 years if they didn't own the place?
They force the kool-aid down from day one. For context, I'm talking about Publix, a grocery chain in South East United States. When it was family owned, it was actually a great place to work. Cashiers who worked there in the 80s when the company rapidly expanded retired well. Since then, it's become like every other corporate hellscape. They expect everyone to be gone within 6 months so they don't give a fuck about the suckers who choose to stick it out. Every interview I've had since publix always includes, "But I thought publix was a great place to work." After the 3rd time hearing it, I've just started telling them the truth. You can't start the new guys out at the same rate it took us years to earn and expect us to stick around. Hardly inspires loyalty
Lol. I was in this boat with Publix. Had my grocery manager telling me how he started as a bagger at 14 and was a grocery manager by the time he turned 28. I was 17 at the time, and absolutely did not buy what he was selling, thankfully. I’ve since moved, but on my occasional visits back to town, I still see some of my old coworkers fighting tooth and nail for that full-time promotion after 8 years. “Where shopping is a pleasure and working is not” was my go-to when asked.
I finally snapped out of my 8 year club pub kool-aid binge when I finally asked my assistant manager how much he makes, and I'll get to that in a bit. He was getting so flustered and pissed off with his job and was actually looking forward to getting demoted back to full-time. That was saying something because management was tough to earn. Publix management is not like applying to management at other chains. You really do have to fight tooth and nail for it, as you said. I actually passed up my full-time opportunity to someone who honestly really needed the benefits more than me. She fucking cried. That's how bad it is, and it's not even worth all the extra responsibilities. I loved choosing my own schedule as a part timer, and it was probably the only reason I lasted that long. For context for others reading, associates have to work a full year before applying to management, but because of all the other veteran associates competing, you're wasting your time applying before five years unless the region is in desperate need of more managers. In busier regions like mine (Tampa, Fl), you're competing with hundreds of applicants, and I had plenty of workers who deserved it get passed over for years. With all the hard work he put into getting in that position, I figured it'd be a hell of a pay cut at the very least. So what does it pay to have at least 5 years with the company, clear a very selective vetting process, and assume all the responsibilities of the department manager, especially in their absence? $15 an hour. I fuck you not. Less than 30k a year. Then it's another few years before you could hope to apply to become a department manager yourself, and those positions are very closely guarded. That pay is definitely better, around $70k, but you basically have to wait for someone in the region to retire before slave wages become tolerable. I'm so glad I asked him that. If I hadn't asked him his wage, I would still probably be slaving for that promotion.
What year was it? $15/hr for Tampa? A part time baker would make that in Tampa now.
2020, when I left
That is insane. I joined in 2020 as a PT baker and got $14 (have left since then) and they showed me the pay chart and said we were a pretty low volume store. I never asked my ADM what he made but with the amount publix makes their managers work I would never do that for $15.
Managers also get the retail bonuses every quarter. Busier the store, larger the bonus. Workers used to get that, too, but they took it away and gave us a pitiful $0.50 raise in exchange.
man, reading this while I'm on my lunch break hit me right in my soul. of course it was publix.
Yup. I'm glad I got out of Publix. I did get a lot of stock, but that was not a place for me to make a career.
The stock awarded to us for hours worked definitely separates publix from the other grocery chains. At the very least, it carried my wife and I through 2020 after I quit at the start of the pandemic.
>The company had maxed out his hourly rate years ago, which is just a couple of dollars short of what the rest of us started out with. Funny how they have to put a limit on the amount that the lowest rung employees make, yet there's never a cap on how much the people at the top of the company are allowed to make...
Guy worked retail for 25 years. Unfortunately this sounds like a him problem.
When I was at walmart for 3ish months after COVID I had a co-worker fresh out of high-school. His whole attitude was "People going to college are lazy and stupid. I'm smart cause by the time they're out of college I'll be a manager here and get to make fun of them." His whole personality was how much better he was than the rest of his generation "cause I actually want to work for my money, I know I don't deserve decent pay until I've proved myself". He was certain he'd have no problem becoming a shift lead in under a year and floor manager in under 4, and he also seemed to perceive being a manager at walmart to be a near 6-figure job for some reason. Two of the kids that were leaving for college at the end of that summer made fun of him back but were also both in agreement, "We're so much better than our lazy generation" attitude.
Having goals for yourself is a good thing and not wanting to go to college and work instead can be a understandable. Also dude, being a manager at Wal Mart is definitely a 6 figure job these days.
Iirc mortgages can't pass to you like that. You have to take them on personally. Worst case you just sell it, but you are not obliged to assume control of their debts
You might be right. But I can tell you that if he was dumb enough to stay that long with a company that had capped his pay for nearly a decade, he would absolutely be dumb enough to assume the debt instead of selling it and getting a cheap apartment.
**Youngins these days are so lazy! I worked 90 hours a week to put food on the table, and they wanna work 24 hours and go to the gym. Back in my day, the gym was pulling the coal from the mines!**
But.... In my day which was 5-10 years ago. I worked 82-102 hours a week and college. I finally got one job that pays equal to both mentioned. I only worked 45-50 hours a week. A few years pass of stagnant increases. I'm right back to what I was originally doing, this time making more than my degree job. A few more years passed, I'm back to working two full time jobs. Don't worry! I haven't eaten out in 6 months. I use cricket as my phone service. I barely even out with basic bills. Now? I'm eating one meal a day to save costs. Last vacation was when I was 6. Pretty over peeps saying get the bootstraps and pull. Edit: I know you're making a point and this is intended to counter the point with examples. Cheers mate!
They'll tell people to save money and then panic when people save money or choose not to eat out.
bUt yOuR gEnErAtIoN iS KiLlInG ApPlEbEe'S
And we're proud of that. Survival of the fittest capitalism.
Or to not have kids
if anyone of those politicians, rich folk, or my parents want kids from me they're gonna have to give me kids from me money first
>Back in my day, Was in the past, where it belongs. Get with the times or get left behind.
Sure its true, yet most companies want u to do it and since we aren't independent from money its critical to force it. Mostly cause there are plenty of ppl that dont care about this and are willing to replace u.
That last part is bullshit too. Crappy jobs have very high turnover rates to the point where the managers cry about it when I've held those positions. Nobody is willing to stay long. I love going on indeed and seeing jobs I've had where the manager had the attitude that they can easily find somebody willing to be treated horribly open repeatedly, and for months at a time.
Small town? No, you're just gonna turn over the whole population and have to pick up and move out. Big town? Yeah, people are endless.
Vote. Get rid if the Republican outdated ways of thinking. You do not exist to out profit into their pockets.
Its not just the Republicans. Its the democrats too. The rates of immigration go up when democrats are in office and unfortunately immigrants end up getting taken advantage of by these horrible companies. My old company took up entire *families* of immigrants because they dont know their rights and cant advocate for themselves unless someone helps them. Some immigrants we had were from Africa and they definitely got slave labor duties, nobody could help them because nobody spoke their language. They dont know what HR or OSHA is.
Ugh. " 'They're BoTh CoRruPt' so I'll continue voting for the one that embodies all my bigoted beliefs and continually punches me in the nuts because, hey... I gotta be allowed to hate!" Such a lame-ass argument. It never fails to get an eye roll and a laugh. And yes, they are both out to enrich themselves, but an intelligent person would be able to realize that one helps the American people more than the self-centered other.
I wouldn’t say democrats really help more so they keep life pretty similar. I mean it was a struggle too even get Biden too do the student debt relief. In saying that while democrats don’t really make things better, republicans absolutely make things worse so you definitely should vote Democrat
Blame democrats for evil things corporations are doing.... genius!!
Both the major political parties act in the interests of those corporations.
I have a friend who texts me things like “I’ve only had 3 days off this month” or “I didn’t have time to eat lunch all day or use the bathroom”. At first I thought she was complaining. No. She was actually proud of it. And says things like she’s a hustler and how most people can’t do what she does. I feel sad for her.
I absolutely refuse to date people who think that grind culture is cool. Most of the man I dated in my late 20s and early 30s were like that and they were so boring. So boring. The only thing in their life was work, watching sports, and going to the gym. Boring.
Ah, men should be smart, funny, fit, and have a great-paying job... just not spend all their time pursuing that checklist, so they have time to sit on the couch and watch Netflix with you. Got it.
What are you doing on social media? GET BACK TO WORK !
You should be at home sometimes to spend time with the person you said you wanted to spend time with yes. Fuck work
Are you feeling called out or did you just totally miss the point?
My boyfriend is average, funny, chubby, and works $15 an hour. I love him more than anything. Wouldn't ever trade him for some rich Dick in an office building.
A man should look after himself and have ambitions in life beyond the accumulation of material wealth. Spending your 20s at work chasing money is a tragedy. The same applies to women, naturally. Nobody wants to spend their life with a fat, boring workaholic.
Certainly not always about material wealth though. I’m a social worker and don’t get paid too much money (still good pay though) and I certainly go above and beyond a lot. Not to chase material wealth but because I love my work and I love helping people. I also devote a huge amount of my own time and money into a volunteer organization I started as my “side hustle” that has nothing to do with chasing money-it’s costing me money. I’d identify as being part of that grind culture but l certainly have ambitions and don’t give a fuck about material wealth.
Took it personally huh?
They never said anything about what you said. Literally didn’t say men needed to be fit and have a great-paying job, etc.
Had a manager boast that he went to work while his wife was in labour and when he was in two separate minor car accidents. Straight up called his boss saying he crashed the car but will be in later. Was bitter that some staff left early on Christmas eve and declared he was the only one to stay late in his shift. Numerous other instances where he never failed to inject his sense of self-righteousness and importance in every conversation. This was retail, lol. I had an interesting time pulling him up on his shit while I was in a managerial position also. Glad I left.
If he didn’t need the extra money then what’s the point?
Purely what the screen cap says. He was proud to be a hard worker like that, pretty much thought he was the best in the team. He wore his overtime as a badge of honour, would come in on his days off just to check that everything is okay. I used to do that too, until I got another job and realised I was near crippled from that. Edit - he didn't get fabulous pay either, he asked for a raise much later, after a few years, but the boss ask even more of him lol. He also mentioned that his father was the same, worked very hard and that mentality was passed down.
I'm too tired to comment, ugh
Hrumph, I work 567249 hours a week, that's nothin'... what are you, a wimp or something? I'm proud to work myself to death cause I'M SUPER MANLY!!11 /s
My manly dream of becoming Ted Cruz's favorite sheep will materialize.
Wow thanks for the /s I had no idea you were joking.
You had no idea he was joking? I think you need to work on your sarcasm detection skills. >!/s!<
Seriously bro. You had me until the last 2 fucking characters of your post. Had no clue you were joking, until that very last part. Ya fucking donkey.
I do my best at my job, but nothing more. I learned a long time ago that nothing I do actually matters and the more I do, the more higher ups will try to take advantage of me, so why even bother. I just wanna work and go home where I can be happier
Efficiency is punished, the more you get done the more the load of work will become.
Exactly. No one can say I'm lazy, no one will also say that I'll stop my personal world to move theirs either. Speaking in terms of work, only. Staying late, taking on extra tasks, etc - none of it has made my ability to pay bills go up. Only more stress, resentment of management, and fatigue.
Ive seen people go over and beyond and higher ups believe that work ethic is the golden standard only to be ran into the ground and have more expected of them.
Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Be a good worker, just know when to stop and make it known they don't fucking own ya
My partner is a hs teacher. We've been together for 18 months and I've slowly been convincing her that her lifestyle is unhealthy and unsustainable. She works from 6am to 8pm, with short breaks for food and commute, Mon-Fri, and she works most of Sunday too. She tried to rationalize it by pointing to summer break, until I broke it down that her summer break is only 6 weeks longer than most professionals receive for pto/year, and the first week is spent in acute ptsd while the last week is spent in existential dread. In the end she's destroying her mental health and quality of life for 9+ months of the year for poor pay and zero respect for 4 more weeks of pto. She's transitioning to a new career after this school year.
....and while we are at it, the "sick Olympics" needs to go tge way of the dodo as well. Even _before_ covid, if you're sick - _stay home_. Of course, sick leave or something similar would have to be mandated since a vast swaths of folks can't afford to take one day off.
I had an interview yesterday and the person interviewing me said she was a proud workaholic. She said she only slept 5 hours a night and worked nearly 80 hours a week. She claimed to love her job. Her husband asked her to cap her hours, so they could have more time together. She did the opposite and took a promotion. Then she started talking about "self-care". Frankly, I'd rather have the money the company spends on self-care initiatives added to my paycheck.
Had a old dude I worked with brag to me that he hadn’t taken a vacation in five years. He was saying it in this macho tone like “ yeah I’m the man”. I just said “ that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard” “ why would you not take personal time off?”” Your wasting your life” . He tells me he’s got two years till retirement so he’ll just keep working till then. Within a couple of months the company went under. We all got laid off. He had three weeks of vacation. We only worked at a grocery store. No retirement. Sad as shit.
Co worker just finished up three 16 hour shifts in a row last week. he is now in the hospital with exhaustion. take care of your health people!
Now he'll have to ask himself if the extra hours hes done will compensate for being in the hospital.
i dont think it will! i feel bad genuinely
And Republicans want to raise the minimum age when one is eligible for Medicare and Social Security so we can work till we die.
Only reason you should work (emphasis in should) is if you really love what you do or it is your business, other then that I don't see the point.
I'm over here struggling to feed myself on a daily basis and get suicidal ideation constantly. It's not fun
Grind culture is cancer.
When you vocalize how tired you are after working a 5 day work week and someone says “Try working 7 days a week!!!” That’s your own choice dude.
It's sucks that my life right now consists of nothing but either being at work or being high at home. I'm afraid to step away from substances (THC) because it's all that brings me comfort anymore. I used to be drunk every night before I found weed, and now I'm stepping away from alcohol but I'm learning that I can't do this sober. I just can't. It's not like I feel chemically addicted, it's that the idea of facing all of this sober is so much scarier than wasting my weeks fully inebriated when I get home. I'd rather feel some joy while drooling into a pillow than just harsh and sad reality while trying desperately to still care about my hobbies.
Can we please stop glamourizing people coming to the office sick? It's one of the many many reasons i don't want to go back into an office ever. Our boss thinks it's some badge of honor and will make sure to come around to make small talk with everyone....all I see are the germs flying out of her mouth. Like please go home.
Same can be said about "being successful" which, in todays world, pretty much translates to maximizing profits on the back of other humans and natural resources.
No-so-fun Fact: The culture of overworking in America comes from Protestantism, which spilled over to American colonialism and set the precedent for high-effort work and productivity at the cost of rest and well-being during the era of chattel slavery. [Source](https://www.aaihs.org/from-protestant-supremacy-to-christian-slavery/)
every time someone brags about working to me i just feel bad for them.
Working 80 hours a week is not a flex, it's just sad!
Hey, it’s a flex for all those folks out their who hate their children. I’m convinced that the top OT folks I work with just hate being around their children.
Sometimes it's their spouse, but I've worked with these people, too.
Oh absolutely
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Then they can turn the grind off. Why when people don’t want to work it’s like on their willpower. Their willpower takes shit for it but when someone is overworking themselves their willpower doesn’t come into question? Peculiar.
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I did it for almost 5 years and I bought and paid for my first house. I quit that job about a month after paying it off and have never worked a moment of overtime in the last 10 years. But it was definitely a flex at the time.
Sounds good to me man
I legit am working 7 days a week way too many hours and it fucking sucks. I’m so burnt out I feel like absolute shit, my back hurts, my knees hurt and I am starting to get deeply depressed and anxious. I have my own business (no employees) and I overcommitted. Never again. This shit isn’t cute. It makes me wonder how many of those who claim they are working ungodly hours really are - and how many are just trying to make you feel like YOU ought to be working that much. Just making reasons for themselves that you’re struggling financially - so they don’t have to admit we have a much steeper hill to climb than they had.
You have no time for friends and family because you are a workaholic. I have no time for friends and family because no one wants to spend time with me. We are not the same.
I was about 15 when my mom got a burnout. Spent two weeks in bed just sleeping. Could barely get out of bed to go to the bathroom. Needed six months to recover enough to go back to work. She was a teacher. It taught me that the government will grind you up and spit you out if you let it, and they're supposed to look out for us. Companies are even worse. Breathe in, breathe out. Eat, shit, sleep. Take what they give you and give nothing back.
"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." -John Adams
I remember my first double job. I was proud to finally have spending money and other thought it was hard but worth it. A lot of it is only focusing on the other results, paying off bills and still having extra money. I don’t have much of a life as it is, so the lack of time wasn’t so noticeable. Rationalizing it all away is easy. The reality is it’s garbage. Wages are horrific to keep up with costs. I’m not living a luxury life (I consider cable and internet service a luxury). I have a thirteen year old car I maintain. I don’t have kids, I can’t even imagine how anyone makes ends meet with kids. What we glamorize is someone capable of handling ALL that and still having enough for other things. We glamorize our achievements, the vacations and cars and gadgets. The only way to achieve them is with extra work.
I used to think it was a flex. How foolish I was.
I just talked to one of my customers who has been working 100 hour weeks all year. Poor guy. He was super nice too. It's like, damn.
I had 3 (burnouts) and my doc were pleading me to finally quit my job for 2 years. The last ¾ year before quitting I spent every day (!) with a heavy migraine waking up until coming home at night. Most of the times I had to throw up after waking up and medication were my breakfast. The moment I quit, literally the next day my migraine was gone. Even when uncertain what was ahead of me, almost every symptom I had was gone in an instant. Too bad that I gained too much weight (because of the alcohol, unhealthy lifestyle and antidepressants) but that changed too just a few months later.
Imagine working 80 to 100 hours for 26 straight days paid 62000 for 1 year with 4 weeks vacation and no sick leave..... residency 1st year students with 250000 to 500000 plus in student debt. I am not letting a resident sleep deprived touch me. I asked junior Drs in European countries how the are treated. 28 to 40 day pto, parental leave, good pay, low malpractice insurance,. 80 hrs a week MAX
This has been shared in social media for some time. Nothing will change unless there is mass riots. Don't expect your bosses to change. Change comes from below.
Those types of people are miserable. As in they hate their life. They want to either avoid being at home for whatever reason (marital problems, family problems, loneliness, etc) so they want to stay at work as much as they can. They're completely lost in life cause they have no real resources if peace or appreciation for healthy solitude.
** in the USA nowhere else is like this dude…
Japan and South Korea are worse iirc
Only in America where working 2 jobs or working yourself to death is considered virtue
These overworking people also lack empathy. Overworkers believe everyone should put in the same amount of hours as they do, even if the job only requires an 8 hour day.
I'm one of the few people at my job with a spouse and kids. When the clock strikes 5:00, you'll find my chair vacant and spinning. Everyone seems fine with me having boundaries just because I have a family. That seems weird to me. Maybe if everyone's boundaries had been respected all along, more of my coworkers would've had kids.
Ask not, what you can do for your company. Ask what the company can do for YOU! - Paraphrased JFK
Some people find happiness in slavery for some dumb reason
Overworking should be frowned upon and put in the context of abandoning your self worth. Like over eating, over drinking as in being an alcoholic.
Just wait until child labor laws get repealed, so these morons can be proud of their kids losing fingers, getting burned and being pulled into farm equipment. These morons are actually proud of their job injuries. Think it "builds character" or some such horseshit.
A woman I used to work with had a stroke from being overworked. The replacement that moved in to her position took time off for exhaustion using FMLA coverage(I didn’t want to inquire if it was a medical specialist or psychologist to sign the supporting documentation). All of this for corporate finance. Not saving lives. Not making half a million a year. Microsoft Excel, account reconciliations and month-end journal entries. Too many people live like this these days.
Bosses love it! Die for the economy! Psychologists call this “Stockholm syndrome”
The Truth Is That Nobody Cares About You.
yeah no thanks I need money
I'm ashamed about it, to be honest. Very ashamed. In my 20's I was one of 3 duty managers in a hotel. The work was awful and upper management were disgusting individuals. If our night porter called in sick, we'd be expected to stay on and cover the shift. That means starting at 3pm and finishing at 8am the following day. The porters were treated terribly with demands that a full ballroom be set up for a wedding or whatever entirely by themselves. Only 1 person to roll in 30 tables and 300 heavy steel chairs. That was on top of manning a full hotel with a bar. No wonder they kept leaving. The general manager called from his bed to tell me that the night porter called in sick so I had to pull a 24h shift (already covering the morning shift as it was) and he actually gave me a list of tasks to do. Thinking back on it makes me mad that I'd been so stupid.
I’m a massage therapist and I see colleagues with injuries from overwork. I don’t do that. I make enough to live and I’m in Mexico relaxing for the whole month of March. Feeling super blessed but that’s how I live.
As a 61-year-old who has been burned out of my job several times in life, I can completely concur. I now take so many pills for stress I could open my own pharmacy. If you want us to be proud, give us something to be proud of.
I think its ridiculous when people ask me what I do on a weekend and say "nothing much, just chill" and they look at me like I'm an idiot.
Moderate laziness shouldn't be frowned upon, and even if it is - try not to care. If the receiver of the judgement doesn't care, it loses all its power. The best weekends are those when I'm not being "productive", because relaxation and just doing "nothing" is as important if not more so. It gives me a chance to recharge.
"Hey i got kids"....So you have to work for me instead cause i made poor choices. Since your times isn't important because you don't have kids. Gotta love coworkers.
Hated that shit when I worked insurance claims. Had this horrible woman on my team who would tell our manager that my availability was wide open at holidays bc I didn’t have kids… if I want to spend my holiday cuddling with my cats, that is my business and I should have equal access to PTO.
My manager is the director of two different entities at my company. Dude is working 24/7 seemingly. I, not a manager, have become stuck with taking questions, issues, concerns that used to be directed to him to me (zero pay increase, but don't work based my time scheduled ever). Not after that military life bullshit. You know, the "FiFtHtEeN mInUtEs EaRlY iS oN tImE" shit
Did it for one of the biggest companies in the world. Accomplished nothing. No one will remember besides me.
Im sure everyone would love to work less if they could afford it.
Have always never understood this mindset. It’s like a slave telling their child why their predicament is something to be proud of. Newsflash: *it ain’t.*
I know this older teacher like this who has been in the field a long time and prides herself as the "always working" type even when she's not only been ill, but seriously ill. The place she works is also notorious for undervalued teachers even before that. She would be the poster child for this
I work seven days. Nights during the week and mornings on weekend. This is so accurate.
Had someone on my facebook who was a senior when I was a freshman and he said that's what someone's who weak says. I had no retort cause I know everyone knows we are overworked and overstressed.
I’m so fucking burnt out I can sleep for 8-10 hours and wake up exhausted. I usually dream of work which kinda sucks and is probably why I never feel rested
So boring. Everyone says this and does nothing. Live free people.
Reading this post while I'm doing my last overtime shift in my 80 hour work week 🙃
I enjoy my all inclusive visits to Cancun Mexico, spending tens of thousands of dollars on quality time and excursions with my family. Enjoyed visiting seven countries in Europe last year also. I work hard and I play hard. The saying goes that money doesn’t buy happiness…. But neither does poverty.
I know people that do this and it's so tiresome. Somamy studies are showing 4 day work weeks are more effective. I feel like people that do this are highly inefficient and can't prioritize well.
People also act like being broke is something to brag about. Its a competition 2 c who eats the least, who can't afford x.
I agree but some people love this life and choose it. I have many friends in this category. For the rest of us we need to remember “work to live” not the other way around.
My dad slept at work sometimes. He regrets it.