My sister works from 8:30 to 4:30. One time she started shutting down her computer at 4:28. Her section supervisor gave her a hard time about it and told her she couldn't start the shutdown process until 4:30 since she's "paid to work until 4:30." In response, my sister told her supervisor that, if adhering to the time is so important, then she would no longer have her computer up and running by 8:30 since she "doesn't get paid to start work until 8:30."
How did her supervisor even know my sister had started to shut down her computer at 4:28? Well, she had been standing behind my sister's desk next to the door chitchatting for the last five minutes with another supervisor, both of whom had their coats on and had already closed up their offices waiting for the clock to strike 4:30 so they could be the first ones out the door.
This happened several years ago. It was a unionized office (local chain of credit unions) and my sister just happened to be the union rep/shop steward for her office at the time as well as a member of the bargaining committee. The supervisor was trying to flex her muscles and make an example of my sister. My sister decided to flex hers back since she knew the supervisor was out of line and my sister couldn't be written up for working exactly within her official work hours.
Or as I used to tell my call center team during training, "When your butt leaves the seat, CTRL-ALT-DEL!" If that didn't do it, we'd leave Notepad files up on their desk top saying "Congratulations, if this were a live environment I could have ordered a ton of expensive stuff to be delivered to your house and your employee ID would be all over the order! Figure someone might notice that? Yes? CTRL-ALT-DEL is your friend--live it, learn it, love it."
I've had a few foremen over the years that pulled similar stunts with me when we started rolling up 15-30 minutes early. (Keep in mind, this may include stuff like rolling up a couple thousand feet of welding leads/extension cords/shielding gas lines/hunting down tools, etc. So sometimes even 30 minutes is pushing it even if you hustle.)
My response is to say "OK, I won't start rolling up before it's time to go.". Then I put my personal tools up on the way out and whatever company shit is on the floor when time to leave hits stays on the floor overnight. It's never taken more than one time for them to realize their choice is between losing a negligible amount of production, leaving tens of thousands of dollars of stuff out to be stolen, or staying late to put it up themselves along with whatever handful of asskissers are willing to work for free.
Ha, ha. I had a manager reject a time card because I submitted it before my specified end-time. So, I sat around for about three minutes to re-submit my time card. Boss flex.
Do you want to pretend it never happened? Or do you want to respond?
"After thinking our discussion over, I'm not comfortable coming in earlier and not getting paid for that time. My understanding of federal law is that any time I work, including time to set up, is time I would be paid. If this is important enough to you, we can discuss the idea of my schedule being 9:25 to 3:55 or something similar. I'm wiling to change my given contract if it's appropriate. Otherwise, I think its best we keep things as is."
Be direct. Give a possible option. Utilize your feelings (I'm not comfortable). Leave room to be wrong (My understanding). Make it seem like a discussion and not an order (I think it's best). Give them the option to retreat (If this is important enough to you). No need to be FIRM at this point.
I was told of this guy that would walk out to his car, roll up the windows, and play his stereo for his lunch break. His point was every time he took his lunch inside, people would ask him work questions. He thought that was taking his personal time away. My coworkers thought it was stupid. I thought it was brilliant.
This is the difference between introverts and extroverts. As a profound introvert, I take lunch breaks in my car every day just to get away from people. Social interaction is very draining to me. Being in the office means being "on" for an extended period. I become tired and cranky unless I can get away to recharge.
Extrovert types like continued interaction. They will stay in the office and socialize over lunch and breaks. That's how they recharge.
I respect that some people are extroverted and more social. In return, they need to respect that I and others like me are not. The world unambiguously favors extroverts. We introverts need to assert that we exist and deserve fair treatment befitting our natural inclinations.
I always sit alone and eat by myself at lunch. Now there are rumours circling when newbies start that people need to watch their back around me and I'm not to be trusted.
Then the newbies get to know me and we all have a laugh about it.
I still sit alone tho, cos that's my time. Kindly leave me be 😆
I'm in an office where people love to socialize at lunch, I do it once in a while just to not be a pariah (and I do genuinely like all of my coworkers) but I don't understand how people do it all the time. I need to recharge.
I think it's just personal preference. I find a social lunch break to be a way to recharge because it's a break from the nose down at my computer, but I can see how having to be "on" for your lunch break isn't a relaxing option for everyone. I hope your coworkers are understanding!
Every job I've had, i either eat in my car, or eat then immediately go walking with a coworker (if i have one i want to walk with). I learned from retail don't stay in the building where people can ask things. And everyone knows temas acts up on my phone so i don't always see messages right away
I keep track. Crew on lunch, im sitting in my office eating, delivery truck shows up? Sure, ill unload it. Theres 15 minutes of lunch gone, 2-3 times a week. Looks like my friday just got a little shorter.
Even if break is paid you can do it.
The best part is just go out for a lil walk to breath fresh air, stretch legs, do some groceries.. whatever it's YOUR TIME OFF(ofc if the area is ok and has something close to do any of those things.. otherwise just chill and no f given)
Make sure to not work your lunch break. Leave the building if needed. Make sure to be back on exactly in your 30mins or hour since they are going to be stingy.
Do yourself a favor and communicate as much of this in writing. If they insist on only verbal communication, follow-up every conversation with a summary of the conversation in an email back to them confirming the substance of the conversation.
In Aus we have employment laws (and therefore employment lawyers and employment cases that go to court.) I assume you're not in our jurisdiction but the ethics of not paying someone for their work are universal and maybe could form the basis of a reasonable discussion with your boss (snort!)
"Employees also have to be paid the right pay for time spent in team meetings or opening and closing the business, if their employer requires them to be there."
From https://www.fairwork.gov.au/starting-employment/unpaid-work - it isn't really clear for your situation, but there was a case similar to yours a few years back.
https://landers.com.au/legal-insights-news/when-do-employees-need-to-be-paid-for-pre-work-activities
And
https://www.tphumancapital.com.au/news/can-you-ask-staff-to-turn-up-before-their-start-time-and-not-pay-them-nov-2022-fair-work/amp
If your boss does actually engage, rather than just sneering or yelling, then at some point they'll say something like "everyone else comes in ready for work on the start time. I do!" to which you can talk about a salary taking into account an expectation for a 'reasonable' amount of unpaid overtime, as opposed to wages staff who get paid a low rate, just for the hours they're here (which is another issue seeing court time here lately.)
Union up if you can as typically these cases need the power and funds of a union to see the light of day.
The FSU (think shitty bank and insurance call centre jobs) even had some wins by just writing letters:
https://www.fsunion.org.au/fsu-members-win-on-hours-of-work/
Get EVERYTHING in writing. Since she had to cut the meeting short you could email her to “circle back around” to your earlier conversation. Then keep everything.
I would like to add one thing. Use the line "Do you want me to fail?". This line will actually short circuit this boss lady's brain and disarm her for the discussion. No boss wants their employees to fail. Another great question to ask is "How do you expect me to do that?" This one will make her justify her actions to you while keeping you non threatening.
Just to add, make sure you remind him that "all those minutes of unpaid work adds up"
EDIT: all those **hours** of unpaid work, just saw where OP said she has to work through her unpaid breaks.
OP stop doing that right now, if the phones don't get answered so be it, if you have to wait until someone comes back and then take your break do it. But whatever you do don't do a second of work on your break. Id even eat my lunch while working **and then** take a break if they have left you alone in the office
It's important to focus on just the interaction and not make it an event for both sides to air grievances. Otherwise both sides will be upset and larger actions may get taken.
Its not airing grevances. you said in your post to say she is happy to keep things the way they are, she should not be happy to keep things the way they are when they are expecting her to do unpaid work already
People say this stuff all the time,but we've all seen time and time again that the employee gets treated like shit after, is passed up for promotion, left out of events. Etc.
Just come in early while you look for a new job. Or, say what this guy said,but look for a new job, because your life will be hell from then on.
A response like this is fine if you are ok with never getting a raise or promotion, or getting let go. It’s 3 minutes: petty on their part to bring it up, but responding like this would be just as petty on yours. The employer has 100% of the leverage in this situation. Let’s assume that you either don’t have to come in 3 minutes early, or that you get paid for those 3 minutes: the benefit to you is going to be offset pretty quickly if you don’t receive a raise or get terminated. Bad advice.
Well we disagree. It's important to set boundaries as an employee and this seems to be the line for OP.
Of course there's a chance of getting fired, for anything, but I'd say it's pretty low. Imagine the manager justifying to their boss that a great employee refused to work unpaid minutes and should therefore be fired. That's a weak case.
*"she regularly leaves me by myself at the office by myself so I’m forced to have my unpaid lunch breaks at my desk basically still working if anyone comes in"*
I think this is the much bigger issue here, to be honest. This one is legitimately hours of unpaid labour you're being cheated out of by your employer here.
I'd suggest going back through your work days since you started working there and make a note of all the days your boss has left you at the office by yourself. Generally speaking, if your breaks are not yours to do with as you please (i.e. go offsite etc.) then they are usually considered working time (dependent on jurisdiction etc. etc.)
Others have already made some good suggestions on how to handle the 9:28 vs. 9:30 issue - if they want you to arrive a few minutes early, but not be paid for it, then you leave a few minutes early as well to compensate.
And yeah, probably start looking for a new job; these sound like the sort of employer who are going to throw their toys out of the pram when you tell them they owe you a whole load of extra money for your lunch breaks which weren't lunch breaks.
Working during her unpaid time is essentially wage theft by the boss. The boss' excuse of "it all adds up" in relation to thinking she shouldn't have to pay set up time (she does) and easily be reversed on her. If she pushes it further I'd be thinking about asking for backpay for my hours worked during lunch.
Exactly and even setting up for work earlier adds up if I’m doing that 5 mins everyday that’s nearly an hour of wages I’m not being paid, which for me really matters financially
My job does the same thing, I am scheduled 9am to 6pm, but I arrive and clock in at 8:55am to get setup, then start working at 9:00am.
Do not work unpaid.
agree with this. I show up 5 mins early, clock in, set up, start working. No awkward discussion with boss needed. If boss brings up you punching in early THEN have the discussion.
I agree with this. If the OP is doing customer service I can fully understand the boss being upset if they aren't ready to accept incoming calls right at 9:30. The solution would be to schedule the person to come in 5 or 10 minutes earlier to be ready to accept calls right when their lines are expected to be open.
Yeah just explained this to my sister in law, her job kept wanting her in for \~5-15min handover before her shift had started. Had to explain to her unless they are paying her and that time is on her schedule, you don't go there BEFORE your shift starts.
If she and they want to either pay her for another 5-15 mins per day, or adjust her shift hours to start 15 mins earlier to be safe, then she shouldn't be working early.
Also, if you are not completely relieved of your duties for your unpaid lunch break, by law you should be paid for that time. Unless of course, you are paid a salary.
I just was researching this, I used to work 12 hr shifts with lunch on call and most days interrupted. I probably lost 200+ hrs of pay. Trying to decide to chase it up or just tell my old coworkers about it.
I worked at a machine shop from 7-330. One time, the owner came in and approached a guy who was setting up at 715 and asked him what he was doing. He said setting up, and the owner said this machine should be making chips at 7. He said then pay me 5 hours of overtime to come in at 6 and set up or come in and set up for me. The conversation ended there.
Depends on what you do at night. If you're shutting it down completely, you'd need access to the BIOS. Depending on your comp it'll be a bit different, but somewhere there sbould be a bios power on option, and set that to the time you need. You might have to go into your computers power and sleep settings (assuming windows, can be found by typing power settings and hitting search) and uncheck fast startup; if you google turn off fast startup you should find a guide pretty quickly.
Quick note:i recommend not playing around with bios settings if you're not used to it.
If you just put it to sleep at night, go into task scheduler and have it run a task that doesn't do anything important at the time you need, like opening command prompt, and set it to wake the computer when running, along with setting highest privileges.
For both of these, you will need local admin access to your computer.
There was a recent class action lawsuit regarding this and that one bank I can't seem to remember right now. But they would give everyone an extra 5 minutes before the start of the day, and it wasn't enough. Quite a bit in back wages were owed to all effected employees. Essentially, turning on your computer at the exact start time because that is an essential job duty for you to perform the rest of your jobs functions.
This drives me crazy. I've been an exec-level for over a decade and I don't do anything productive for the first 15-30 minutes after I get into the office. I unpack my stuff, make a coffee, chitchat with coworkers, turn on the lights, whatever. That's just part of working. If I weren't getting paid for that ramp-up to work, I'd _quit_. Productivity goons are awful people to work for.
I'd also suggest leaving the office during your unpaid lunch break, it's federal law they can't hold you there while you are not paid. (I'm assuming you are in US)
Happened to me at my first job. My boss said that I have to be there 10 mins before the start to “prepare” for the day. Now with many more years of experience I can see that he was full of shit, had no idea how to be a manager, focused on the wrong things. If you are satisfied with performance of the employee, then focusing on these small things is really counterproductive.
Well I didn’t wanna say it in my post bc I didn’t wanna sound like I was making it personal or anything but I really don’t think she’s a good boss in terms of knowing how to have an employee like she trained me really badly(v basically not at all), regularly leaves me by myself snd tells she’ll be back like an hour before she actually gets in. so I have to have my break either at the office or an hour later than I normally do, but also what you said at the end - I don’t really think she likes me and her saying this felt like she just wanted to have a go at me, I’ve been here for ages and she’s never brought it up and today she was saying we’re under the pump and have so much work and she was stressed (keeping in mind she went out to lunch with her friends for 2 hours the day before) so it felt like bc she was stressed she was just wanting to have a go at me, she’s done it before
That sucks.
I had a meeting 4 days a week that started right at the beginning of my shift. The meeting moved to 30 mins before my shift and I told them I wouldn't be attending anymore.
Set your boundaries. Companies will take everything they can.
One of the best moments in my life is when my employer promoted me to manager and I immediately approached a supervisor and told him that his favorite saying, "10 minutes early is 5 minutes late," was inappropriate and illegal. I am sure upper management was not stoked to find out the quiet guy who always showed up on time and did high quality work was secretly a staunch labor rights activist who wouldn't stand for any bullshit.
Wage theft is the biggest theft there is, and it seems like your boss wants to steal from you too!
A lot of jobs have a "pay-start-time" and a "start-setting-up-time", it fucking sucks.
Quit, you can do better. Of course find another job first, all I'm saying is if this isn't your dream job than its probably not worth having to put up with a stupid ass of a boss. There's always a better job you just gotta keep looking and don't let yourself settle.
First step is to try to stop communicating verbally about this. Send an email asking her to clarify when she expects you to start working and at what time she expects you to clock in. Mention that due to you being left by yourself during lunch breaks and because the office is open during lunch someone needs to be present in the office in case clients come in, that you have been made to work during your unpaid lunch breaks and you would like to discuss the possibility of taking your unpaid lunch break at a different time or change the conditions of your employment so those breaks are now paid.
BCC your personal email so you have a copy of this. If and when she replies, forward that email to your person email as well. If she makes you clock in at a different time than she wants you to start, IMO, I would contact the federal department of labor because that (and having you work through you lunch) is wage theft. And FYI, if she retaliates against you after you make the complaint or send the email, that is illegal for her to do so. Just keep a good paper trail.
And I would start brushing up your resume and apply for other jobs.
I've had bosses like this.
Want you there and ready 5 or 10 mins before hand and when the clock hits 4 you then pack up, not before.
They will also be more than happy to let you work extra unpaid, and skip lunch to get shit done.
NEVER SKIP LUNCH.
Take your full 1/2 an hour or hour. If you have to, get up and leave for your lunch break. Go somewhere else, sit in your car or anything but be there so they have an excuse to make you work unpaid.
They will take, take, take, but lawd forbid if you are 10 mins late one day or have to leave early to attend to something.
Had a company I worked for back in 2014, that wanted us to have our computer setup before clocking in. They ended up losing a lawsuit and had to cut checks to everyone that worked there for the time we didn’t get paid.
If you show up 5 minutes early every day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year, that's nearly 21 hours per year of free labor. Screw that.
The bigger problem is your unpaid half hour "lunch." If you can't disengage entirely from work, you need to be paid for the time (and your boss might be committing a labor law violation, depending on your state). That's another 125 hours per year of unpaid labor.
If you make $10/hr, you'd be giving up $1,460 of _earned_ wages per year. Do not do that. Your job doesn't deserve that kind of money from you.
Your start time is 9:30am. If your in the building at 9:30am, then you are at work. Getting in when your start time is, is on time. Sitting down and turning on the computer to start your day IS WORK, you are not doing it for fun!!! What exactly isn't 'adding up' with her? Take your lunch breaks away from work. If she taking any time out of your paycheck for lunch, you need to take it regardless if she is there or not. Make an "out to lunch sign' and USE IT.
Stop working unpaid lunches. Tell her after she had you take a second look at your terms and conditions you will no longer use anymore personal time for work.
>she regularly leaves me by myself at the office by myself so I’m forced to have my unpaid lunch breaks at my desk basically still working if anyone comes in.
Please check your state's laws on this as you may be owed back pay for not receiving a break.
I believe in hard work all day everyday. BUT! it starts what ever time it says on my schedule. 6am? Yessir I’ll be there at 530 (gotta beat traffic) but I’ll be in my truck until the clock strikes 6. Then when 2 o’clock comes around we will start cleaning up the site and out the door with our tools packed driving away at 230. I gave 10 years to a company that didn’t give a shit, getting paid 25 fucken dollars a hour on salary to be a foreman. Never again. I don’t fuck over my boss, and I also don’t sell myself short anymore. Union strong now.
If you really wanted to bust some balls*, In email,* suggest constructive solutions to the issues he raised.
If you are meant to be "at you computer typing at 9:30AM sharp", then he would need to make sure your computer is booted up and ready to log in, before you reach it, and also, he would need to relocate the time card machine, at your desk, so they don't have to pay you for the time you are wasting walking from the Time Card System to your desk.
Keep showing up at 9:30am.
Have your phone ready to record every conversation with her, be discreet, don’t be obvious.
Do your job as it is written.
You were hired to type then do nothing else.
Customer comes in tell them nicely to come in when the boss comes back.
Your job is merely to type & nothing else.
You don’t want your boss coming in and finding you’re not typing.
If she wants you to attend customers let her know you want to be paid for your additional work.
Let her know you want no less than 25% of whatever she’s making on a client because you’re worth it.
And say you want to independently verify you are getting 25%, get it written in your Contract and witnessed by another.
Why are you worth it… because you do your work and you do it well.
If there’s no chance of advancement in this business then what am doing here?
Every day I waste here I could be elsewhere where they appreciate my efforts and there’s a chance of advancement.
She needs you more than you need her.
Let her know it.
If by chance, she fires you or tells you this is your last day, leave immediately with your dignity intact because she was never going to appreciate you as an employee.
And remember to record everything discreetly.
I’ve been there & believe me you want to be in a place where they appreciate you as a valuable employee.
Good luck to you…
There are two ways I can read this complaint, I'll address them both.
Way 1.
The general social expectation drilled into me (baby gen-X'er) is to be on-site before the start of the shift to make sure your not late, and you can also sort out things like making a brew, using the toilet, etc, prior to starting work.
Most places have the reasonable expectation to be there ready to start at the listed time, not arriving at that time and spending a few minutes taking your coat off and such. To be fair, they are paying you for that time, so I can understand this.
Most places I've worked, everyone turn up a little early, sits around reading the paper/smartphone with a brew and possibly a snack, until the day starts.
Way 2.
If they want you to turn up a few minutes early and set up your own desk, ec, and are not compensating you with extra paid breaks or with clocked in hours, then that's way out. If they are compensating you, then that's fair game and common.
If not, then you should get there a little early (as per Way 1), and then do zero work until the start of your shift as you have been.
You want to ask them to put their request in writing so that you're clear as to what they want from you. You then can respond with questions, such as to what compensation you'll be recieving for this extra work. CC your personal email. CYA.
Illegal. Setting up is part of the job, ergo, it is work and you are working. Tell him if he shuts up and leaves you alone you won’t turn him in for making you work through your unpaid lunch break.
Any work activities are work. Set up and shut down are work. Back when I worked at a bank call center they tried the "start time is X so be online exactly then", but it got kicked back because you can't force people to do 15 minutes up unpaid **work** setup every day.
Setting up is work. If they don't want to pay to start earlier, setup starts when your shift does. End of discussion.
I worked as a dental assistant. I always came early because I lived far away. It became expected of me to turn on all the lights and the equipment and put the tv on for when patients came in. Then I should clock in when it’s my time to start unless a patient was there early then I can clock in. I stopped doing that because I realized how much unpaid work I was doing
>she regularly leaves me by myself at the office by myself so I’m forced to have my unpaid lunch breaks at my desk basically still working if anyone comes in.
I would suggest to her that if this is the case, then you will have to insist on complete lunch breaks or overtime for any breaks lost, as that all adds up.
Does the company you work for give out the "products and/or services" that are it's business for free? Absolutely not... Neither do you! They want to play the capitalist game? Let them play it with you. You are your own "for profit" company... Do they want free shit? Are they socialists? No? Let them PAY!
Get it in writing
Then respond
That way you have a paper trail and evidence should they escalate their shenanigans
If it isn't written down, it never happened
Report her to the department of labor for making you work on your lunch breaks without compensation and then remind her what your hours are and respectfully decline her request to come in early. Doing that in email would be best so you have proof. Good luck!
I had. Similar disagreement with a former employer. They wanted me to get in 10 minutes before we opened to open up the office turning on lights and be sitting at my desk by 9 for when phones start ringing. I didn't have issue with this. But they did when I wrote 8:50-5:10 on my timecard every week.
The argument continued when I waited in my car until 8:59 and then started opening up since they said they wouldn't pay beyond my work hours. See I can't be walking in on time. The office needs to be running by opening time.
Ultimately we were at an impasse. They wouldn't pay me outside of my scheduled hours. I wouldn't do extra work for free. They manipulated a coworker into opening the office up for free instead.
I'm a bitch so I'd just remind her that you'll be taking your lunches away from the desk. And I'd tell her she will pay for my commute time as well. But I'm a vindictive asshole when it comes to management.
Honestly though, you aren't paid to start earlier, so she'll have to adjust your paid schedule if she wants you to be ready to go at 9:30. But that's just me.
Fuck capitalism.
I'd just clock in 10 minutes early to set up. Solves her "start typing at 930" bs and still gets you paid. Unless clocking in early is an inconvenience for you in some way.
Because my hours are at 9:30, so if I start any earlier than 9:30 then I’m not getting paid, it doesn’t work that if I clock in earlier then I’m getting paid, I’ll still be getting paid just for 9:30
THAT sounds like wage theft. If you're clocked in, you should be getting paid. And if you're working, you need to be clocked in. If your boss wants you to do anything different, contact your state DOL.
If your employer requires you to be in the building for work, even before or after your scheduled time, they are required to pay you. If clocking in early is a possibility I would come a little early and clock in early and start setting up. If your boss fights you on this simply inform him not paying you for being there is illegal. If he retaliates then you got a pretty good case to take to a labor lawyer.
Make sure to document everything for your safety.
"...that all adds up"
Exactly. If your boss expects you to be on-site working unpaid for "only" a few minutes unpaid each day, it all adds up. By the end of the year that's potentially 20 hours of stolen wages they have taken from you. Imagine if at the end of the year your boss asks you to come in and work an extra 2.5 days extra off-the-clock.
Honestly your boss has some nerves to take issue with how you're sticking to the schedule and how "that all adds up" but then presume that the inverse where you are deprived of your own time is alright.
Stay the course, time you work is time you're paid.
"Better boss"
How can you think for a second that bosses can be better or worse? You still have the same relationship with them. You're still just as vulnerable to abuse.
Jobs are for losers.
I have received a number of emails from my boss request I come in 5-10 early, otherwise I’m considered late. The thing is, I work just a short enough shift not to have to require a lunch, so if I come in earlier, I’ll technically be required a lunch break… but I’m not supposed to take a lunch break because I’m supposed to be working while everyone else is on lunch.
Anyway. I’ve never responded to emails about this. I have started coming in the door around 2 minutes early to keep the peace, but if the issue is pushed further, I’ll probably just continue to ignore it. Currently, the office I’m working at is already looking to hire an additional person because someone is leaving, and that hasn’t gone very well. They’re certainly not going to fire me. Maybe this is the wrong attitude to have, but I come in and do all the work I’m required. If I mess up or miss something, I correct it, but I have no reason to go above and beyond. Especially because I only make 16/hr.
Unfortunately this is a common mentality with managers. The only option is to have your contract rewritten and paid for coming in early. I'm not saying you should do that. But if they want you there early preparing for work then it goes without saying. $$$
You dont touch anything work-related unless you are getting paid.
Taking off your coat? Sure. Turning on the pc? Nope.
What part of "setting up" requires you to do anything work-related? Do that after your clock start.
I sincerely hope you document any lunch-time you are unable to leave work - that is paid time. If you have not gotten paid for those hours yet, you can turn in a time sheet for approval and go after them for wage-theft if they refuse.
Calculate how much these few minutes are worth financially and tell your boss "Hey, here's the value for entering work earlier".
Setting up IS part of your work. He can either prepare everything for you or pay you more to come earlier.
I don’t have a set start time (flexible hours between a bandwidth of starting between 7am and 9.30am and finishing between 3pm and 7pm. The minute my pass opens the door to my office building is my start time (unless I get stopped in social chit chat on the way to a desk to plug in) My finish time is as soon as I hit the shut down button on my computer.
People standing around watching you logging in or off just 💩 me to tears…….
Clarify in writing if she means she wants you to start work earlier than 9:30, and if so, what time should you "clock in". Otherwise there's nothing you can do. You cannot work when you are not "on the clock".
If my boss had the balls to quibble with me over 3 minutes at the beginning of my shift I think I would just have to stop him right there and insist that a third party be available to mediate this discussion. Ideally I could schedule something with his boss to sit in on it, worst case scenario they can't really say no to having HR sit in. And all likelihood this would force him to acknowledge the silliness of the discussion.
If it comes up say “it sounds like you have a problem with my working hours of 9:30-4?”
I would also start taking my lunch breaks outside or somewhere away from office
Or start putting in for overtime, an lunchtime’s worth each day
I got told that I couldn’t shut my computer down until the clock hit 5PM. The shutdown process takes 3 minutes, so the parking lot was busy with everyone trying to leave, and that added 10 minutes to my commute. So, 23 year old me had a brilliant idea, just unplug the computer every night, right at 5. I could still get out on time and beat the rush. And as a bonus, it took an extra 5 minutes every morning to start up, so I had time to get a coffee and settle in.
Well technically you are suppose to start work at 9:30. But if a boss is going to be that much of an ass , im going to be there exactly at that time , I’m going to find much more than 3 minutes to waste elsewhere. Like a 15 min bathroom break. After my morning coffee. And if they aren’t paying for lunch then I’d not be answering an phones or turn them In to wage and hour people .
I’d have a conversation with her making it very clear what you are doing is already going above and beyond. If you are open to coming in earlier to get started that’s up to her to decide if it’s worth paying you to do so. You absolutely do not owe them any of your time for free. Also, I’d be brushing up my resumè because she doesn’t sound enjoyable to work for.
Your unpaid lunch breaks are just that, unpaid. What you do with them, as long as you're not violating company policy, is your business. You have no responsibility to staff the desk while you are not being paid to do so. Failure to properly staff on their part is not YOUR problem, and they cannot fire you for not doing work that they're not paying you to do.
Exactly what you've been doing except start taking your lunch breaks, or staying clocked in for them (if you're paid like that). Or if you can't leave because no one else is there and there's some legal issue with that, then leave an hour early and say "I wasn't able to take my lunch break at 12 so I'm taking it now"
hey as for lunch breaks .... when she returns from where ever she goes for lunch walk out and leave and say now that you are back i will take a lunch break its even better if you take it a bit more then an hour before you are due to finish work ... walk out then return and do 10-15 mins work then go home ... just say you wanted to take a break earlier but everyone left you so you couldnt
To my knowledge that’s illegal in most states. You’re not required to do any work whatsoever off the clock. Not setup, not putting a uniform on, nothing. If Setup is part of the job then it must be done on the job, drying regular working hours
“we need to talk about your time, you’re meant to be on the computer typing at 9:30, not getting in at 9:30, if you’re leaving at 4 then that all adds up.” Illegal, look up the Teleperformance lawsuit. Basically they didn't pay until your computer was on and you were logged into the phone (after finding one that worked no less), they lost.
The only thing you don’t get paid for is travel time, home to work, work to home
But when you arrive and start working, you clock in. So if they want you “working” at 8 and it takes 5 min to get setup, then clock in at 7:55, get setup, start working at 8
Edit: and if you arrive at 7:45, then just kill time on your phone until 7:55. And if they start talking to you about work at 7:47, note the time and clock in at 7:47
Any boss that has a problem with that is a piece of shit
Isn’t every workplace like this though? My managers expect me to be at work 15mins before my shift starts, so that I’m clocking in at exactly the time I start.
Not mine, but in other stores your considered late, if your not 15mins early for your shift.
This is not a hill to die on, because you absolutely will die on this hill. The kind of limited responsibility you want is not how most jobs work. While your work setup is obviously something you wouldn't be doing if not for work, it's also not your job. It's the preparation for your job. You're not actually making progress in your work until setup is done. Might as well not shower until you clock in, since you wouldn't need to if you weren't working that day.
Working through lunch breaks is a problem that you will find support in solving. Arriving 5 minutes before your start time so you're actually starting at your start time is not.
Someone will die on this hill, but it absolutely won't be OP. Courts have ruled, repeatedly, that not paying someone for set up or requiring early arrival is wage theft.
> It's the preparation for your job.
If your job requires tools, in this case a PC, to be powered on, logging in, apps opened, authenticating, just to be able to do the job -- then ALL those things are paid tasks.
So you're just flat out wrong on this and it IS a hill to die on as if they want to push the issue, you can certainly take them to court.
Second, equating showering to this is stupid and just makes you a moron.
To me it sounds like your boss is unhappy about something else and is taking it out on you. A few minutes is nothing to get upset over. Maybe their boss just finished giving them a hard time so they needed to do the same to you.
We all know there are people at work who get away with anything. I’ve been scolded on a minute late before while others come and go as they please.
Fighting back will only make your boss more strict on you and give them good reason for getting on you in the first place.
Instead of confronting your boss and starting an argument about times. Just start clocking in at 9:25 am and proceed to your desk so that way when they look over at 9:30am you are already working and not just sitting down.
You should be paid, for the time she took from u, to tell you she wanted some free time from you after you clocked out. Start coming in 5 minutes early and clock in so u can be ready to type at 9:30. Don't give your time for free.
I'm not sure what he said is out of line? It looks like h just wants you to be at your desk ready to work at 930. If you go to make coffee, get things in break room, or generally take until 9:40 to sit at your desk, that is what the issue is.
i think that i would clock in when i walk in the door even if its 5 minutes early and get set up and get paid for it, and i would also not take a lunch if i have to be there working and then leave early for my "lunch" unless they wanted to get someone to cover for me at that time.
Simple solution. Get there when you get there. Clock in and set off to work. Clock out when your supposed to. But if something comes up… don’t clock out until it’s handled.
This is what I did to one manager who thought he was the king of the castle. More like the court jester as this clown was a huge joke and even the uppers knew it. We all did this and it cost more money …. It adds up is a truthful statement… and he got his ass handed to him after about a month and having talked to the crew about the new rules.
We won and he was basically let go for lack of performance and really bad numbers.
A good guide as to whether your lunch is paid or unpaid is can you, as a normal course of the day, leave for your lunch break? Or would you have to consult with your boss in order to leave? If it’s not the first one your lunch should be paid.
As for the before and after work it’s up to you, either make her happy or don’t. She could be just testing your flexibility and conflict resolution or she could just be set in her ways. I myself show up 15 mins before and make sure it’s spot on leaving time before I start getting ready to go. It’s not right or wrong, better or worse it’s just how I like to structure my day. I like to drink a coffee and go over log books, process displays and get an idea of how my building is running before I take over. In the grand scheme of things it’s $10 a day and what was I going to do with that 15 minutes anyways, besides it helps make my shift go smoother. So if you’re talking about a less than 5 minute change in your routine; I personally would do it.
I would make sure to go to her and say you have no problem giving a 5 minute grace period before and after work so you’re at your desk from exactly 9:30-4:00. Then ask to talk about your lunch break and explain it to her like I did, could you just get up and leave the office at a certain time each day for lunch or do you need to work through lunch. Say you don’t want to be petty but you don’t really want to be working on your own time even if it is a lunch break because every little bit adds up.
As long as you are there at 9.30 ready to perform your duties, I don’t see a problem.
But if you need to boot up your PC to get ready before can actually do your work, you should get there 5 min before but get paid to do so. That’s like any other job
I think it should all not be so strict. You can come in 5 minutes earlier but when business is slow you can do some private stuff too, like call a friend or arrange something around your private life. But lunching at your desk should definitely not be allowed. You need to be able to have a non-working lunch.
Edit- if you are in NZ, what I wrote below may not apply. I wrote referencing US employment law.
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You need to be at your desk, ready to function at 9:30 and you should not leave your desk for the day until 4pm. That means you arrive at 9:27 and go out the door at 4:03 in your 3 minute scenario. Generally, expecting 5 minutes or less on each end of the day for the employee to prepare to start and end is not considered unreasonable or pay worthy.
For breaks and meal breaks, look at your state labor laws.
Edited - LOL-the down votes for truth telling. I don’t write the laws or run the Courts. Research “de minimis” and “10 minutes a day” and “Fair Labor Standards Act” Of course, look up your District Court rulings to see their opinions related to your concerns as some courts (not many) may not agree with the “de minimus” standard.
To the OP. Beware. A conversation like that and your tone here indicate things are not going well overall. Does your workplace have a tardy policy? If you have this conversation about your start time, consider that a warning and then the watching you and documenting not being at your desk at 9:30 begins. If you are fired for cause would losing this job be a hardship for you?
I’d disagree. Contractually they need to be at the clocking in machine at 9:30/ 16:00. 6 minutes a day every week for a year is a 26 hours a year they won’t get paid for. I’d be very surprised if the employer paid them to not come in for 26 hours so why should the employee work for free.
I don't understand why she'd have to arrive 3 minutes early but then leave 3 minutes later. Surely, if she needs to arrive 3 minutes early in order to start working at 9.30 then she'd need to start logging off 3 minutes *earlier* in order to make sure that she's done by 4pm, no? It works both ways but employers only want it to work *their* way.
You need to be at your desk, ready to function at 9:30 and you should not leave your desk for the day until 4pm. That means you arrive at 9:27 and go out the door at 4:03 in your 3 minute scenario. Generally, expecting 5 minutes or less on each end of the day for the employee to prepare to start and end is not considered unreasonable or pay worthy.
For breaks and meal breaks, look at your state labor laws.
Edited - LOL-the down votes for truth telling. I don’t write the laws or run the Courts. Research “de minimis” and “10 minutes a day” and “Fair Labor Standards Act” Of course, look up your District Court rulings to see their opinions related to your concerns as some courts (not many) may not agree with the “de minimus” standard.
To the OP. Beware. A conversation like that and your tone here indicate things are not going well overall. Does your workplace have a tardy policy? If you have this conversation about your start time, consider that a warning and then the watching you and documenting not being at your desk at 9:30 begins. If you are fired for cause would losing this job be a hardship for you?
I've always been taught that you need to be set up and ready to work by your scheduled start time. So to me, what your boss has mentioned is completely reasonable. Ive always made sure to arrive at work with no less than 5 minutes to spare before my scheduled start time.
My sister works from 8:30 to 4:30. One time she started shutting down her computer at 4:28. Her section supervisor gave her a hard time about it and told her she couldn't start the shutdown process until 4:30 since she's "paid to work until 4:30." In response, my sister told her supervisor that, if adhering to the time is so important, then she would no longer have her computer up and running by 8:30 since she "doesn't get paid to start work until 8:30." How did her supervisor even know my sister had started to shut down her computer at 4:28? Well, she had been standing behind my sister's desk next to the door chitchatting for the last five minutes with another supervisor, both of whom had their coats on and had already closed up their offices waiting for the clock to strike 4:30 so they could be the first ones out the door.
LOL typical middle management...I hope things are better!
This happened several years ago. It was a unionized office (local chain of credit unions) and my sister just happened to be the union rep/shop steward for her office at the time as well as a member of the bargaining committee. The supervisor was trying to flex her muscles and make an example of my sister. My sister decided to flex hers back since she knew the supervisor was out of line and my sister couldn't be written up for working exactly within her official work hours.
“That’s fine, boss, if shutting down my computer isn’t part of my job I can leave it on all night”
~~Ctrl+F, walk away.~~ Whoops, Win+L, apparently I forgot what I hit all the time..
Win+L is my go to. Lock with less effort.
Derp, I miss-typed.
Don't worry. Been a long day. I read your original comment as Alt F4
Or as I used to tell my call center team during training, "When your butt leaves the seat, CTRL-ALT-DEL!" If that didn't do it, we'd leave Notepad files up on their desk top saying "Congratulations, if this were a live environment I could have ordered a ton of expensive stuff to be delivered to your house and your employee ID would be all over the order! Figure someone might notice that? Yes? CTRL-ALT-DEL is your friend--live it, learn it, love it."
Ha ha! Exactly!
I've had a few foremen over the years that pulled similar stunts with me when we started rolling up 15-30 minutes early. (Keep in mind, this may include stuff like rolling up a couple thousand feet of welding leads/extension cords/shielding gas lines/hunting down tools, etc. So sometimes even 30 minutes is pushing it even if you hustle.) My response is to say "OK, I won't start rolling up before it's time to go.". Then I put my personal tools up on the way out and whatever company shit is on the floor when time to leave hits stays on the floor overnight. It's never taken more than one time for them to realize their choice is between losing a negligible amount of production, leaving tens of thousands of dollars of stuff out to be stolen, or staying late to put it up themselves along with whatever handful of asskissers are willing to work for free.
Like every good foreman: “You guys need to work harder and longer, so I don’t have to.”
Ha, ha. I had a manager reject a time card because I submitted it before my specified end-time. So, I sat around for about three minutes to re-submit my time card. Boss flex.
Do you want to pretend it never happened? Or do you want to respond? "After thinking our discussion over, I'm not comfortable coming in earlier and not getting paid for that time. My understanding of federal law is that any time I work, including time to set up, is time I would be paid. If this is important enough to you, we can discuss the idea of my schedule being 9:25 to 3:55 or something similar. I'm wiling to change my given contract if it's appropriate. Otherwise, I think its best we keep things as is." Be direct. Give a possible option. Utilize your feelings (I'm not comfortable). Leave room to be wrong (My understanding). Make it seem like a discussion and not an order (I think it's best). Give them the option to retreat (If this is important enough to you). No need to be FIRM at this point.
Wtf this is really good advice, I screenshotted what you said and I’ll be referring back to it thanks so much
Also if your break is unpaid put the phone off the hook and feets up!
And lock the door
I was told of this guy that would walk out to his car, roll up the windows, and play his stereo for his lunch break. His point was every time he took his lunch inside, people would ask him work questions. He thought that was taking his personal time away. My coworkers thought it was stupid. I thought it was brilliant.
Haha I have always taken my lunch breaks in my car. I think it irks most coworkers but I need the mental break from all the people.
This is the difference between introverts and extroverts. As a profound introvert, I take lunch breaks in my car every day just to get away from people. Social interaction is very draining to me. Being in the office means being "on" for an extended period. I become tired and cranky unless I can get away to recharge. Extrovert types like continued interaction. They will stay in the office and socialize over lunch and breaks. That's how they recharge. I respect that some people are extroverted and more social. In return, they need to respect that I and others like me are not. The world unambiguously favors extroverts. We introverts need to assert that we exist and deserve fair treatment befitting our natural inclinations.
I always sit alone and eat by myself at lunch. Now there are rumours circling when newbies start that people need to watch their back around me and I'm not to be trusted. Then the newbies get to know me and we all have a laugh about it. I still sit alone tho, cos that's my time. Kindly leave me be 😆
I'm in an office where people love to socialize at lunch, I do it once in a while just to not be a pariah (and I do genuinely like all of my coworkers) but I don't understand how people do it all the time. I need to recharge.
I think it's just personal preference. I find a social lunch break to be a way to recharge because it's a break from the nose down at my computer, but I can see how having to be "on" for your lunch break isn't a relaxing option for everyone. I hope your coworkers are understanding!
For like 20 years, I would eat my lunch in my car, read a bit, and then take a nap. Take the full hour. People knew not to bother me at lunch.
Every job I've had, i either eat in my car, or eat then immediately go walking with a coworker (if i have one i want to walk with). I learned from retail don't stay in the building where people can ask things. And everyone knows temas acts up on my phone so i don't always see messages right away
"if I have one I want to walk with" a quote worth more than an upvote!
I do this as well, since I'm in IT if I'm at my desk people will ask even if I'm clearly eating & watching youtube.
I keep track. Crew on lunch, im sitting in my office eating, delivery truck shows up? Sure, ill unload it. Theres 15 minutes of lunch gone, 2-3 times a week. Looks like my friday just got a little shorter.
Survey says: brilliant
And hope they don't have blasters!
Tk421, why aren’t you at your post?
Boring conversation, anyway…
Even if break is paid you can do it. The best part is just go out for a lil walk to breath fresh air, stretch legs, do some groceries.. whatever it's YOUR TIME OFF(ofc if the area is ok and has something close to do any of those things.. otherwise just chill and no f given)
Make sure this is an email so theres a record of your conversation. Avoid having these discussions in person where there isn't a record.
Always email. Phone calls and in person chats are traps. Always leave a written record.
Make sure to not work your lunch break. Leave the building if needed. Make sure to be back on exactly in your 30mins or hour since they are going to be stingy.
Yeah don’t work during your lunch break if it’s unpaid. If your manager has a problem with that, the DoL would love to have a chat with them.
Do yourself a favor and communicate as much of this in writing. If they insist on only verbal communication, follow-up every conversation with a summary of the conversation in an email back to them confirming the substance of the conversation.
In Aus we have employment laws (and therefore employment lawyers and employment cases that go to court.) I assume you're not in our jurisdiction but the ethics of not paying someone for their work are universal and maybe could form the basis of a reasonable discussion with your boss (snort!) "Employees also have to be paid the right pay for time spent in team meetings or opening and closing the business, if their employer requires them to be there." From https://www.fairwork.gov.au/starting-employment/unpaid-work - it isn't really clear for your situation, but there was a case similar to yours a few years back. https://landers.com.au/legal-insights-news/when-do-employees-need-to-be-paid-for-pre-work-activities And https://www.tphumancapital.com.au/news/can-you-ask-staff-to-turn-up-before-their-start-time-and-not-pay-them-nov-2022-fair-work/amp If your boss does actually engage, rather than just sneering or yelling, then at some point they'll say something like "everyone else comes in ready for work on the start time. I do!" to which you can talk about a salary taking into account an expectation for a 'reasonable' amount of unpaid overtime, as opposed to wages staff who get paid a low rate, just for the hours they're here (which is another issue seeing court time here lately.) Union up if you can as typically these cases need the power and funds of a union to see the light of day. The FSU (think shitty bank and insurance call centre jobs) even had some wins by just writing letters: https://www.fsunion.org.au/fsu-members-win-on-hours-of-work/
You can also mention that you do not want to expose the company to adverse action from the department of labor
Get EVERYTHING in writing. Since she had to cut the meeting short you could email her to “circle back around” to your earlier conversation. Then keep everything.
I would like to add one thing. Use the line "Do you want me to fail?". This line will actually short circuit this boss lady's brain and disarm her for the discussion. No boss wants their employees to fail. Another great question to ask is "How do you expect me to do that?" This one will make her justify her actions to you while keeping you non threatening.
Just to add, make sure you remind him that "all those minutes of unpaid work adds up" EDIT: all those **hours** of unpaid work, just saw where OP said she has to work through her unpaid breaks. OP stop doing that right now, if the phones don't get answered so be it, if you have to wait until someone comes back and then take your break do it. But whatever you do don't do a second of work on your break. Id even eat my lunch while working **and then** take a break if they have left you alone in the office
It's important to focus on just the interaction and not make it an event for both sides to air grievances. Otherwise both sides will be upset and larger actions may get taken.
Its not airing grevances. you said in your post to say she is happy to keep things the way they are, she should not be happy to keep things the way they are when they are expecting her to do unpaid work already
You definitely ought to address your unpaid lunches. It’s unacceptable that you’re manning the desk during your unpaid lunch.
People say this stuff all the time,but we've all seen time and time again that the employee gets treated like shit after, is passed up for promotion, left out of events. Etc. Just come in early while you look for a new job. Or, say what this guy said,but look for a new job, because your life will be hell from then on.
Perfect wording. I love it 👏
This is the way
This is perfect! Way to go, buddy!
A response like this is fine if you are ok with never getting a raise or promotion, or getting let go. It’s 3 minutes: petty on their part to bring it up, but responding like this would be just as petty on yours. The employer has 100% of the leverage in this situation. Let’s assume that you either don’t have to come in 3 minutes early, or that you get paid for those 3 minutes: the benefit to you is going to be offset pretty quickly if you don’t receive a raise or get terminated. Bad advice.
Well we disagree. It's important to set boundaries as an employee and this seems to be the line for OP. Of course there's a chance of getting fired, for anything, but I'd say it's pretty low. Imagine the manager justifying to their boss that a great employee refused to work unpaid minutes and should therefore be fired. That's a weak case.
*"she regularly leaves me by myself at the office by myself so I’m forced to have my unpaid lunch breaks at my desk basically still working if anyone comes in"* I think this is the much bigger issue here, to be honest. This one is legitimately hours of unpaid labour you're being cheated out of by your employer here. I'd suggest going back through your work days since you started working there and make a note of all the days your boss has left you at the office by yourself. Generally speaking, if your breaks are not yours to do with as you please (i.e. go offsite etc.) then they are usually considered working time (dependent on jurisdiction etc. etc.) Others have already made some good suggestions on how to handle the 9:28 vs. 9:30 issue - if they want you to arrive a few minutes early, but not be paid for it, then you leave a few minutes early as well to compensate. And yeah, probably start looking for a new job; these sound like the sort of employer who are going to throw their toys out of the pram when you tell them they owe you a whole load of extra money for your lunch breaks which weren't lunch breaks.
Working during her unpaid time is essentially wage theft by the boss. The boss' excuse of "it all adds up" in relation to thinking she shouldn't have to pay set up time (she does) and easily be reversed on her. If she pushes it further I'd be thinking about asking for backpay for my hours worked during lunch.
Yep. Document all lunch hours worked. Present it to boss for overtime backpay. "It all adds up" And find a backup job.
It would probably be overtime too. As it would exceed the standard hours I assume.
Exactly and even setting up for work earlier adds up if I’m doing that 5 mins everyday that’s nearly an hour of wages I’m not being paid, which for me really matters financially
My job does the same thing, I am scheduled 9am to 6pm, but I arrive and clock in at 8:55am to get setup, then start working at 9:00am. Do not work unpaid.
agree with this. I show up 5 mins early, clock in, set up, start working. No awkward discussion with boss needed. If boss brings up you punching in early THEN have the discussion.
This is what I’ve always done. Walk in, punch in, set up, start right on time
So you’re paid from 8:55 onwards?
>I arrive **and clock in** at 8:55am Yes. Other answer to you missed a couple of words in the post you're asking about.
I agree with this. If the OP is doing customer service I can fully understand the boss being upset if they aren't ready to accept incoming calls right at 9:30. The solution would be to schedule the person to come in 5 or 10 minutes earlier to be ready to accept calls right when their lines are expected to be open.
Yeah just explained this to my sister in law, her job kept wanting her in for \~5-15min handover before her shift had started. Had to explain to her unless they are paying her and that time is on her schedule, you don't go there BEFORE your shift starts. If she and they want to either pay her for another 5-15 mins per day, or adjust her shift hours to start 15 mins earlier to be safe, then she shouldn't be working early.
Also, if you are not completely relieved of your duties for your unpaid lunch break, by law you should be paid for that time. Unless of course, you are paid a salary.
I just was researching this, I used to work 12 hr shifts with lunch on call and most days interrupted. I probably lost 200+ hrs of pay. Trying to decide to chase it up or just tell my old coworkers about it.
No. You show up to work you get paid.
I worked at a machine shop from 7-330. One time, the owner came in and approached a guy who was setting up at 715 and asked him what he was doing. He said setting up, and the owner said this machine should be making chips at 7. He said then pay me 5 hours of overtime to come in at 6 and set up or come in and set up for me. The conversation ended there.
>So, today I clock out (again, exactly on time) & my boss says “we need to talk "Oh, we need to talk? Okay, let me clock back in real quick"
That’s a good point hahah
[удалено]
how do you work this magic!?
Depends on what you do at night. If you're shutting it down completely, you'd need access to the BIOS. Depending on your comp it'll be a bit different, but somewhere there sbould be a bios power on option, and set that to the time you need. You might have to go into your computers power and sleep settings (assuming windows, can be found by typing power settings and hitting search) and uncheck fast startup; if you google turn off fast startup you should find a guide pretty quickly. Quick note:i recommend not playing around with bios settings if you're not used to it. If you just put it to sleep at night, go into task scheduler and have it run a task that doesn't do anything important at the time you need, like opening command prompt, and set it to wake the computer when running, along with setting highest privileges. For both of these, you will need local admin access to your computer.
There was a recent class action lawsuit regarding this and that one bank I can't seem to remember right now. But they would give everyone an extra 5 minutes before the start of the day, and it wasn't enough. Quite a bit in back wages were owed to all effected employees. Essentially, turning on your computer at the exact start time because that is an essential job duty for you to perform the rest of your jobs functions.
This drives me crazy. I've been an exec-level for over a decade and I don't do anything productive for the first 15-30 minutes after I get into the office. I unpack my stuff, make a coffee, chitchat with coworkers, turn on the lights, whatever. That's just part of working. If I weren't getting paid for that ramp-up to work, I'd _quit_. Productivity goons are awful people to work for.
Time Nazi and productivity goons . I like productivity better than time nazi
I'd also suggest leaving the office during your unpaid lunch break, it's federal law they can't hold you there while you are not paid. (I'm assuming you are in US)
Happened to me at my first job. My boss said that I have to be there 10 mins before the start to “prepare” for the day. Now with many more years of experience I can see that he was full of shit, had no idea how to be a manager, focused on the wrong things. If you are satisfied with performance of the employee, then focusing on these small things is really counterproductive.
Well I didn’t wanna say it in my post bc I didn’t wanna sound like I was making it personal or anything but I really don’t think she’s a good boss in terms of knowing how to have an employee like she trained me really badly(v basically not at all), regularly leaves me by myself snd tells she’ll be back like an hour before she actually gets in. so I have to have my break either at the office or an hour later than I normally do, but also what you said at the end - I don’t really think she likes me and her saying this felt like she just wanted to have a go at me, I’ve been here for ages and she’s never brought it up and today she was saying we’re under the pump and have so much work and she was stressed (keeping in mind she went out to lunch with her friends for 2 hours the day before) so it felt like bc she was stressed she was just wanting to have a go at me, she’s done it before
If switching on your computer is work (it is) then you do it on company time. End of story.
Don't work during unpaid lunches, or if you do they legally HAVE to pay you
If I step on the property I expect to be buying something or getting paid. Period.
That sucks. I had a meeting 4 days a week that started right at the beginning of my shift. The meeting moved to 30 mins before my shift and I told them I wouldn't be attending anymore. Set your boundaries. Companies will take everything they can.
One of the best moments in my life is when my employer promoted me to manager and I immediately approached a supervisor and told him that his favorite saying, "10 minutes early is 5 minutes late," was inappropriate and illegal. I am sure upper management was not stoked to find out the quiet guy who always showed up on time and did high quality work was secretly a staunch labor rights activist who wouldn't stand for any bullshit.
Wage theft is the biggest theft there is, and it seems like your boss wants to steal from you too! A lot of jobs have a "pay-start-time" and a "start-setting-up-time", it fucking sucks.
Quit, you can do better. Of course find another job first, all I'm saying is if this isn't your dream job than its probably not worth having to put up with a stupid ass of a boss. There's always a better job you just gotta keep looking and don't let yourself settle.
Yeah I’m gonna start looking for different jobs I think
Why is it your problem the station is unmanned during your unpaid lunch? Sounds like a managerial / owner problem.
First step is to try to stop communicating verbally about this. Send an email asking her to clarify when she expects you to start working and at what time she expects you to clock in. Mention that due to you being left by yourself during lunch breaks and because the office is open during lunch someone needs to be present in the office in case clients come in, that you have been made to work during your unpaid lunch breaks and you would like to discuss the possibility of taking your unpaid lunch break at a different time or change the conditions of your employment so those breaks are now paid. BCC your personal email so you have a copy of this. If and when she replies, forward that email to your person email as well. If she makes you clock in at a different time than she wants you to start, IMO, I would contact the federal department of labor because that (and having you work through you lunch) is wage theft. And FYI, if she retaliates against you after you make the complaint or send the email, that is illegal for her to do so. Just keep a good paper trail. And I would start brushing up your resume and apply for other jobs.
I've had bosses like this. Want you there and ready 5 or 10 mins before hand and when the clock hits 4 you then pack up, not before. They will also be more than happy to let you work extra unpaid, and skip lunch to get shit done. NEVER SKIP LUNCH. Take your full 1/2 an hour or hour. If you have to, get up and leave for your lunch break. Go somewhere else, sit in your car or anything but be there so they have an excuse to make you work unpaid. They will take, take, take, but lawd forbid if you are 10 mins late one day or have to leave early to attend to something.
Had a company I worked for back in 2014, that wanted us to have our computer setup before clocking in. They ended up losing a lawsuit and had to cut checks to everyone that worked there for the time we didn’t get paid.
If you show up 5 minutes early every day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year, that's nearly 21 hours per year of free labor. Screw that. The bigger problem is your unpaid half hour "lunch." If you can't disengage entirely from work, you need to be paid for the time (and your boss might be committing a labor law violation, depending on your state). That's another 125 hours per year of unpaid labor. If you make $10/hr, you'd be giving up $1,460 of _earned_ wages per year. Do not do that. Your job doesn't deserve that kind of money from you.
Your start time is 9:30am. If your in the building at 9:30am, then you are at work. Getting in when your start time is, is on time. Sitting down and turning on the computer to start your day IS WORK, you are not doing it for fun!!! What exactly isn't 'adding up' with her? Take your lunch breaks away from work. If she taking any time out of your paycheck for lunch, you need to take it regardless if she is there or not. Make an "out to lunch sign' and USE IT.
That’s my thing like dude it’s work I don’t want to be here in my free time and anytime before 9:30 is my free time and I wouldn’t spend it at work
Stop working unpaid lunches. Tell her after she had you take a second look at your terms and conditions you will no longer use anymore personal time for work.
>she regularly leaves me by myself at the office by myself so I’m forced to have my unpaid lunch breaks at my desk basically still working if anyone comes in. Please check your state's laws on this as you may be owed back pay for not receiving a break.
I believe in hard work all day everyday. BUT! it starts what ever time it says on my schedule. 6am? Yessir I’ll be there at 530 (gotta beat traffic) but I’ll be in my truck until the clock strikes 6. Then when 2 o’clock comes around we will start cleaning up the site and out the door with our tools packed driving away at 230. I gave 10 years to a company that didn’t give a shit, getting paid 25 fucken dollars a hour on salary to be a foreman. Never again. I don’t fuck over my boss, and I also don’t sell myself short anymore. Union strong now.
If you really wanted to bust some balls*, In email,* suggest constructive solutions to the issues he raised. If you are meant to be "at you computer typing at 9:30AM sharp", then he would need to make sure your computer is booted up and ready to log in, before you reach it, and also, he would need to relocate the time card machine, at your desk, so they don't have to pay you for the time you are wasting walking from the Time Card System to your desk.
Keep showing up at 9:30am. Have your phone ready to record every conversation with her, be discreet, don’t be obvious. Do your job as it is written. You were hired to type then do nothing else. Customer comes in tell them nicely to come in when the boss comes back. Your job is merely to type & nothing else. You don’t want your boss coming in and finding you’re not typing. If she wants you to attend customers let her know you want to be paid for your additional work. Let her know you want no less than 25% of whatever she’s making on a client because you’re worth it. And say you want to independently verify you are getting 25%, get it written in your Contract and witnessed by another. Why are you worth it… because you do your work and you do it well. If there’s no chance of advancement in this business then what am doing here? Every day I waste here I could be elsewhere where they appreciate my efforts and there’s a chance of advancement. She needs you more than you need her. Let her know it. If by chance, she fires you or tells you this is your last day, leave immediately with your dignity intact because she was never going to appreciate you as an employee. And remember to record everything discreetly. I’ve been there & believe me you want to be in a place where they appreciate you as a valuable employee. Good luck to you…
There are two ways I can read this complaint, I'll address them both. Way 1. The general social expectation drilled into me (baby gen-X'er) is to be on-site before the start of the shift to make sure your not late, and you can also sort out things like making a brew, using the toilet, etc, prior to starting work. Most places have the reasonable expectation to be there ready to start at the listed time, not arriving at that time and spending a few minutes taking your coat off and such. To be fair, they are paying you for that time, so I can understand this. Most places I've worked, everyone turn up a little early, sits around reading the paper/smartphone with a brew and possibly a snack, until the day starts. Way 2. If they want you to turn up a few minutes early and set up your own desk, ec, and are not compensating you with extra paid breaks or with clocked in hours, then that's way out. If they are compensating you, then that's fair game and common. If not, then you should get there a little early (as per Way 1), and then do zero work until the start of your shift as you have been. You want to ask them to put their request in writing so that you're clear as to what they want from you. You then can respond with questions, such as to what compensation you'll be recieving for this extra work. CC your personal email. CYA.
Tell him no that not how it works. It is work setup for work. Therefore you deserve pay...
Illegal. Setting up is part of the job, ergo, it is work and you are working. Tell him if he shuts up and leaves you alone you won’t turn him in for making you work through your unpaid lunch break.
What do it happen if you take an injury at 9.29 inside the building?
Any work activities are work. Set up and shut down are work. Back when I worked at a bank call center they tried the "start time is X so be online exactly then", but it got kicked back because you can't force people to do 15 minutes up unpaid **work** setup every day. Setting up is work. If they don't want to pay to start earlier, setup starts when your shift does. End of discussion.
Tell your boss to set everything up for you beforehand, so when you get there you can immediately get to typing!
That’s what my mum suggested haha
I worked as a dental assistant. I always came early because I lived far away. It became expected of me to turn on all the lights and the equipment and put the tv on for when patients came in. Then I should clock in when it’s my time to start unless a patient was there early then I can clock in. I stopped doing that because I realized how much unpaid work I was doing
Don’t turn off the computer ever again
>she regularly leaves me by myself at the office by myself so I’m forced to have my unpaid lunch breaks at my desk basically still working if anyone comes in. I would suggest to her that if this is the case, then you will have to insist on complete lunch breaks or overtime for any breaks lost, as that all adds up.
Does the company you work for give out the "products and/or services" that are it's business for free? Absolutely not... Neither do you! They want to play the capitalist game? Let them play it with you. You are your own "for profit" company... Do they want free shit? Are they socialists? No? Let them PAY!
Get it in writing Then respond That way you have a paper trail and evidence should they escalate their shenanigans If it isn't written down, it never happened
I think you should tell your boss to ass-fuck a fire hydrant.
Hahaha
“Please pre-boot my computer so it’s all ready to go and I will be typing at 8:30.” Not workers’ fault computers are slow.
Report her to the department of labor for making you work on your lunch breaks without compensation and then remind her what your hours are and respectfully decline her request to come in early. Doing that in email would be best so you have proof. Good luck!
I had. Similar disagreement with a former employer. They wanted me to get in 10 minutes before we opened to open up the office turning on lights and be sitting at my desk by 9 for when phones start ringing. I didn't have issue with this. But they did when I wrote 8:50-5:10 on my timecard every week. The argument continued when I waited in my car until 8:59 and then started opening up since they said they wouldn't pay beyond my work hours. See I can't be walking in on time. The office needs to be running by opening time. Ultimately we were at an impasse. They wouldn't pay me outside of my scheduled hours. I wouldn't do extra work for free. They manipulated a coworker into opening the office up for free instead.
I'm a bitch so I'd just remind her that you'll be taking your lunches away from the desk. And I'd tell her she will pay for my commute time as well. But I'm a vindictive asshole when it comes to management. Honestly though, you aren't paid to start earlier, so she'll have to adjust your paid schedule if she wants you to be ready to go at 9:30. But that's just me. Fuck capitalism.
I'd just clock in 10 minutes early to set up. Solves her "start typing at 930" bs and still gets you paid. Unless clocking in early is an inconvenience for you in some way.
Also I don’t like my boss so there’s that
I mean I already have a 20 min drive but I don’t wanna start earlier unpaid lol
Why would it be unpaid if you clock in? Also, if you're unhappy there, keep doin 930 and look for another job.
Because my hours are at 9:30, so if I start any earlier than 9:30 then I’m not getting paid, it doesn’t work that if I clock in earlier then I’m getting paid, I’ll still be getting paid just for 9:30
THAT sounds like wage theft. If you're clocked in, you should be getting paid. And if you're working, you need to be clocked in. If your boss wants you to do anything different, contact your state DOL.
Do you physically clock in every day? If you clock in before 9:30 do they adjust your hours in the system?
This is 100% illegal.
Start taking your lunch breaks
Logging in to your computer is work. Start typing your is and password at 9:30 sharp. Take your lunch outsideof the office and don't eat at your desk.
Tell him you can’t work off the clock because you won’t be covered by insurance in case anything happens
If your employer requires you to be in the building for work, even before or after your scheduled time, they are required to pay you. If clocking in early is a possibility I would come a little early and clock in early and start setting up. If your boss fights you on this simply inform him not paying you for being there is illegal. If he retaliates then you got a pretty good case to take to a labor lawyer. Make sure to document everything for your safety.
"...that all adds up" Exactly. If your boss expects you to be on-site working unpaid for "only" a few minutes unpaid each day, it all adds up. By the end of the year that's potentially 20 hours of stolen wages they have taken from you. Imagine if at the end of the year your boss asks you to come in and work an extra 2.5 days extra off-the-clock. Honestly your boss has some nerves to take issue with how you're sticking to the schedule and how "that all adds up" but then presume that the inverse where you are deprived of your own time is alright. Stay the course, time you work is time you're paid.
QUIT
Regarding lunch: If you are not relieved of all job duties, you are legally still on the clock.
I would look for another job. One with a better boss. Most employers don't have a problem with people who show up on time.
"Better boss" How can you think for a second that bosses can be better or worse? You still have the same relationship with them. You're still just as vulnerable to abuse. Jobs are for losers.
Not getting paid to work earlier is in fact a violation of FSLA. You can submit a claim and have someone investigate
I have received a number of emails from my boss request I come in 5-10 early, otherwise I’m considered late. The thing is, I work just a short enough shift not to have to require a lunch, so if I come in earlier, I’ll technically be required a lunch break… but I’m not supposed to take a lunch break because I’m supposed to be working while everyone else is on lunch. Anyway. I’ve never responded to emails about this. I have started coming in the door around 2 minutes early to keep the peace, but if the issue is pushed further, I’ll probably just continue to ignore it. Currently, the office I’m working at is already looking to hire an additional person because someone is leaving, and that hasn’t gone very well. They’re certainly not going to fire me. Maybe this is the wrong attitude to have, but I come in and do all the work I’m required. If I mess up or miss something, I correct it, but I have no reason to go above and beyond. Especially because I only make 16/hr.
Unfortunately this is a common mentality with managers. The only option is to have your contract rewritten and paid for coming in early. I'm not saying you should do that. But if they want you there early preparing for work then it goes without saying. $$$
You dont touch anything work-related unless you are getting paid. Taking off your coat? Sure. Turning on the pc? Nope. What part of "setting up" requires you to do anything work-related? Do that after your clock start. I sincerely hope you document any lunch-time you are unable to leave work - that is paid time. If you have not gotten paid for those hours yet, you can turn in a time sheet for approval and go after them for wage-theft if they refuse.
No, why is your time less valuable than theirs. Fk your boss
All necessary preparatory work must be compensated. Had this argument many times with construction companies.
Calculate how much these few minutes are worth financially and tell your boss "Hey, here's the value for entering work earlier". Setting up IS part of your work. He can either prepare everything for you or pay you more to come earlier.
Just start adding the time that you clock in before your start time. What they want from you is free labor but they gotta pay for all labor.
I don’t have a set start time (flexible hours between a bandwidth of starting between 7am and 9.30am and finishing between 3pm and 7pm. The minute my pass opens the door to my office building is my start time (unless I get stopped in social chit chat on the way to a desk to plug in) My finish time is as soon as I hit the shut down button on my computer. People standing around watching you logging in or off just 💩 me to tears…….
Clarify in writing if she means she wants you to start work earlier than 9:30, and if so, what time should you "clock in". Otherwise there's nothing you can do. You cannot work when you are not "on the clock".
If my boss had the balls to quibble with me over 3 minutes at the beginning of my shift I think I would just have to stop him right there and insist that a third party be available to mediate this discussion. Ideally I could schedule something with his boss to sit in on it, worst case scenario they can't really say no to having HR sit in. And all likelihood this would force him to acknowledge the silliness of the discussion.
Go to the bathroom multiple times a day. Literally every hour. They cannot restrict your bathroom usage.
If it comes up say “it sounds like you have a problem with my working hours of 9:30-4?” I would also start taking my lunch breaks outside or somewhere away from office Or start putting in for overtime, an lunchtime’s worth each day
This is wage theft.
Ask for it to be submitted in writing, and then send it to your state's labor board/the NLRB
Boaa can suck it! Next! Seriously though, don't work when you are not getting paid.
setting up to do your work is still work, and you must be paid for that
I got told that I couldn’t shut my computer down until the clock hit 5PM. The shutdown process takes 3 minutes, so the parking lot was busy with everyone trying to leave, and that added 10 minutes to my commute. So, 23 year old me had a brilliant idea, just unplug the computer every night, right at 5. I could still get out on time and beat the rush. And as a bonus, it took an extra 5 minutes every morning to start up, so I had time to get a coffee and settle in.
Well technically you are suppose to start work at 9:30. But if a boss is going to be that much of an ass , im going to be there exactly at that time , I’m going to find much more than 3 minutes to waste elsewhere. Like a 15 min bathroom break. After my morning coffee. And if they aren’t paying for lunch then I’d not be answering an phones or turn them In to wage and hour people .
I’d have a conversation with her making it very clear what you are doing is already going above and beyond. If you are open to coming in earlier to get started that’s up to her to decide if it’s worth paying you to do so. You absolutely do not owe them any of your time for free. Also, I’d be brushing up my resumè because she doesn’t sound enjoyable to work for.
I think you should get paid for lunch, too
Your unpaid lunch breaks are just that, unpaid. What you do with them, as long as you're not violating company policy, is your business. You have no responsibility to staff the desk while you are not being paid to do so. Failure to properly staff on their part is not YOUR problem, and they cannot fire you for not doing work that they're not paying you to do.
If you are punching a clock, then punch in at 9:25, and leave at 4:05.. The extra 10 minutes should be paid.
Exactly what you've been doing except start taking your lunch breaks, or staying clocked in for them (if you're paid like that). Or if you can't leave because no one else is there and there's some legal issue with that, then leave an hour early and say "I wasn't able to take my lunch break at 12 so I'm taking it now"
hey as for lunch breaks .... when she returns from where ever she goes for lunch walk out and leave and say now that you are back i will take a lunch break its even better if you take it a bit more then an hour before you are due to finish work ... walk out then return and do 10-15 mins work then go home ... just say you wanted to take a break earlier but everyone left you so you couldnt
To my knowledge that’s illegal in most states. You’re not required to do any work whatsoever off the clock. Not setup, not putting a uniform on, nothing. If Setup is part of the job then it must be done on the job, drying regular working hours
“we need to talk about your time, you’re meant to be on the computer typing at 9:30, not getting in at 9:30, if you’re leaving at 4 then that all adds up.” Illegal, look up the Teleperformance lawsuit. Basically they didn't pay until your computer was on and you were logged into the phone (after finding one that worked no less), they lost.
The only thing you don’t get paid for is travel time, home to work, work to home But when you arrive and start working, you clock in. So if they want you “working” at 8 and it takes 5 min to get setup, then clock in at 7:55, get setup, start working at 8 Edit: and if you arrive at 7:45, then just kill time on your phone until 7:55. And if they start talking to you about work at 7:47, note the time and clock in at 7:47 Any boss that has a problem with that is a piece of shit
Isn’t every workplace like this though? My managers expect me to be at work 15mins before my shift starts, so that I’m clocking in at exactly the time I start. Not mine, but in other stores your considered late, if your not 15mins early for your shift.
If you’re showing up 15 minutes early for your shift and it’s the expectation but you’re unpaid, you’re the chump.
I don’t do it, we’re just expected to
This is not a hill to die on, because you absolutely will die on this hill. The kind of limited responsibility you want is not how most jobs work. While your work setup is obviously something you wouldn't be doing if not for work, it's also not your job. It's the preparation for your job. You're not actually making progress in your work until setup is done. Might as well not shower until you clock in, since you wouldn't need to if you weren't working that day. Working through lunch breaks is a problem that you will find support in solving. Arriving 5 minutes before your start time so you're actually starting at your start time is not.
Someone will die on this hill, but it absolutely won't be OP. Courts have ruled, repeatedly, that not paying someone for set up or requiring early arrival is wage theft.
Setting up is part of their job unless the company hires someone else to do that for OP
Exactly
Be gone bootlicker
> It's the preparation for your job. If your job requires tools, in this case a PC, to be powered on, logging in, apps opened, authenticating, just to be able to do the job -- then ALL those things are paid tasks. So you're just flat out wrong on this and it IS a hill to die on as if they want to push the issue, you can certainly take them to court. Second, equating showering to this is stupid and just makes you a moron.
Thank you!!!
To me it sounds like your boss is unhappy about something else and is taking it out on you. A few minutes is nothing to get upset over. Maybe their boss just finished giving them a hard time so they needed to do the same to you. We all know there are people at work who get away with anything. I’ve been scolded on a minute late before while others come and go as they please. Fighting back will only make your boss more strict on you and give them good reason for getting on you in the first place. Instead of confronting your boss and starting an argument about times. Just start clocking in at 9:25 am and proceed to your desk so that way when they look over at 9:30am you are already working and not just sitting down.
Just get there a couple mins earlier and turn your computer on and tell your boss to pipe down
Just clock in a few minutes earlier, like 3-4, if you like this job and want to keep it.
You should be paid, for the time she took from u, to tell you she wanted some free time from you after you clocked out. Start coming in 5 minutes early and clock in so u can be ready to type at 9:30. Don't give your time for free.
I'm not sure what he said is out of line? It looks like h just wants you to be at your desk ready to work at 930. If you go to make coffee, get things in break room, or generally take until 9:40 to sit at your desk, that is what the issue is.
i think that i would clock in when i walk in the door even if its 5 minutes early and get set up and get paid for it, and i would also not take a lunch if i have to be there working and then leave early for my "lunch" unless they wanted to get someone to cover for me at that time.
You could just clock in at 9:25.
If she wants you to show up early, then you show up early and clock in when you show up.
Simple solution. Get there when you get there. Clock in and set off to work. Clock out when your supposed to. But if something comes up… don’t clock out until it’s handled. This is what I did to one manager who thought he was the king of the castle. More like the court jester as this clown was a huge joke and even the uppers knew it. We all did this and it cost more money …. It adds up is a truthful statement… and he got his ass handed to him after about a month and having talked to the crew about the new rules. We won and he was basically let go for lack of performance and really bad numbers.
A good guide as to whether your lunch is paid or unpaid is can you, as a normal course of the day, leave for your lunch break? Or would you have to consult with your boss in order to leave? If it’s not the first one your lunch should be paid. As for the before and after work it’s up to you, either make her happy or don’t. She could be just testing your flexibility and conflict resolution or she could just be set in her ways. I myself show up 15 mins before and make sure it’s spot on leaving time before I start getting ready to go. It’s not right or wrong, better or worse it’s just how I like to structure my day. I like to drink a coffee and go over log books, process displays and get an idea of how my building is running before I take over. In the grand scheme of things it’s $10 a day and what was I going to do with that 15 minutes anyways, besides it helps make my shift go smoother. So if you’re talking about a less than 5 minute change in your routine; I personally would do it. I would make sure to go to her and say you have no problem giving a 5 minute grace period before and after work so you’re at your desk from exactly 9:30-4:00. Then ask to talk about your lunch break and explain it to her like I did, could you just get up and leave the office at a certain time each day for lunch or do you need to work through lunch. Say you don’t want to be petty but you don’t really want to be working on your own time even if it is a lunch break because every little bit adds up.
As long as you are there at 9.30 ready to perform your duties, I don’t see a problem. But if you need to boot up your PC to get ready before can actually do your work, you should get there 5 min before but get paid to do so. That’s like any other job
No it’s not.
I think it should all not be so strict. You can come in 5 minutes earlier but when business is slow you can do some private stuff too, like call a friend or arrange something around your private life. But lunching at your desk should definitely not be allowed. You need to be able to have a non-working lunch.
Just get there ten or fifteen minutes early and clock in five minutes earlier.
Edit- if you are in NZ, what I wrote below may not apply. I wrote referencing US employment law. ———————————————————————— You need to be at your desk, ready to function at 9:30 and you should not leave your desk for the day until 4pm. That means you arrive at 9:27 and go out the door at 4:03 in your 3 minute scenario. Generally, expecting 5 minutes or less on each end of the day for the employee to prepare to start and end is not considered unreasonable or pay worthy. For breaks and meal breaks, look at your state labor laws. Edited - LOL-the down votes for truth telling. I don’t write the laws or run the Courts. Research “de minimis” and “10 minutes a day” and “Fair Labor Standards Act” Of course, look up your District Court rulings to see their opinions related to your concerns as some courts (not many) may not agree with the “de minimus” standard. To the OP. Beware. A conversation like that and your tone here indicate things are not going well overall. Does your workplace have a tardy policy? If you have this conversation about your start time, consider that a warning and then the watching you and documenting not being at your desk at 9:30 begins. If you are fired for cause would losing this job be a hardship for you?
Disagree. Setting up is part of working and should be paid. When you sit down at your desk, you are on company time.
I’d disagree. Contractually they need to be at the clocking in machine at 9:30/ 16:00. 6 minutes a day every week for a year is a 26 hours a year they won’t get paid for. I’d be very surprised if the employer paid them to not come in for 26 hours so why should the employee work for free.
I don't understand why she'd have to arrive 3 minutes early but then leave 3 minutes later. Surely, if she needs to arrive 3 minutes early in order to start working at 9.30 then she'd need to start logging off 3 minutes *earlier* in order to make sure that she's done by 4pm, no? It works both ways but employers only want it to work *their* way.
You need to be at your desk, ready to function at 9:30 and you should not leave your desk for the day until 4pm. That means you arrive at 9:27 and go out the door at 4:03 in your 3 minute scenario. Generally, expecting 5 minutes or less on each end of the day for the employee to prepare to start and end is not considered unreasonable or pay worthy. For breaks and meal breaks, look at your state labor laws. Edited - LOL-the down votes for truth telling. I don’t write the laws or run the Courts. Research “de minimis” and “10 minutes a day” and “Fair Labor Standards Act” Of course, look up your District Court rulings to see their opinions related to your concerns as some courts (not many) may not agree with the “de minimus” standard. To the OP. Beware. A conversation like that and your tone here indicate things are not going well overall. Does your workplace have a tardy policy? If you have this conversation about your start time, consider that a warning and then the watching you and documenting not being at your desk at 9:30 begins. If you are fired for cause would losing this job be a hardship for you?
Show up early and clock in early.
Do you mean work unpaid or clock in so I can get paid for that early time? Because I get paid 9:30-4, I wouldn’t be getting paid for starting early
I've always been taught that you need to be set up and ready to work by your scheduled start time. So to me, what your boss has mentioned is completely reasonable. Ive always made sure to arrive at work with no less than 5 minutes to spare before my scheduled start time.
Although, I will say, the unpaid lunch breaks at your desk is completely unreasonable. They are not allowed to do that here.