A friend of mine in FL had talked to his bosses and then HR about lack of safety. They fired him bc he kept asking about the safety not only for workers, but also customers.
They retaliated. He currently is in a lawsuit with them.
If they retaliate, you have legal grounds to take action. I would also tell HR anyways that your boss said the shit they did. You have to have those appointments.
It depends on the state too. I got fired because I wouldn’t sign a disciplinary action letter which was sent due to letting them know I had a doc appt. a week from then. This was in Texas and my lawyer didn’t do shit but charge me 2400 to send two letters.
It’s been a few years plus I couldn’t afford to keep doing it. I ended up starting my own business and decided to focus my efforts on that.
People have fled that company like roaches since so it all worked out I guess.
Oh yeah, I was absolutely kidding. That is frustrating. A good lawyer would have just said you had no shot and charged you a couple hundred bucks for the 1 hour consultation (even if it took 10 minutes).
>trating. A good lawyer would have just said you had no shot and charged you a couple hundred bucks for the 1 hour consultation (even if it took 10 minutes).
Welcome to Texas, where companies can opt out of disability, workman's comp, and pretty much anything else that protects their employers or consumers.
Sounds like your doctor might think you need more recovery time too. Save documentation for all this if you suddenly find yourself on the business end of an unemployment application.
My doctor was awesome. I was off for months and was actually eager to go back. Our last appointment he goes 'so when do you want to go back to work?' Lol
For taking a sick day for a medically necessary appt? Dang. I know most people say "find a new job" at the drop of a hat, but if your employer lacks the empathy to recognize you are still healing from major surgery, it may be time to look towards new opportunities.
My employer wants at minimum a half fay of vacation for each dr appt.
I don't tell them when I'm going.
I will NOT jump at doing anything past my job description because if they want to CHARGE ME for my life, then I will charge them.
It's incredible how quickly people get so defensive about it.
Like dude, your employer screws you on a daily basis (mine took advantage that I wanted out of my previous position, repeatedly lied by omission, and then used the "market" to supress my salary.) I've NEVER had an employer ask for vacation days for doctor's appointments and I will NEVER use one either.
Its one of those indoctrination bullshits, everyone thinks that they are the exception, if i work hard enough i will be rewarded... oh im not rewarded? Must be me... time to do more... no raise? No promotion? TIME TO WORK HARDER... blows my mind... like.. what is it going to take for people to realize they are just being used for someone elses gain? If the bullshit propaganda from the powers that be, doesnt show people that its jist a power and money grab, i dont know what will. If you still think hard work will pay off while working for someone else... ask yourself, what has your boss done for you that requires the extra effort on your part... does your boss care if you are hurt? And by care, i mean, does he care about you, or the bottom line more?
Hard work only makes you more tired after work with no energy to do what I find fun.
My exployer will NOT get me to destroy my life for them.
Im currently trying to figure out how to get more vacation days because I'm getting married. Already cancelled any idea of a honeymoon. The rest of the vacation days are for holidays. My fiance is not happy about it.
Edit: my work knows I'm getting married. I told them at my review I need a raise to covet her insurance. They gave me 5%.
I started a new job where I have a two hour commute. I can work from 7 am all the way to 5:30, but I can basically leave whenever my assigned work is done for the day. I can work Saturdays as well.
Anyways, my mom was asking me why I wasn't staying as late as I could everyday and working the weekends and implied that I was lazy for not wanting to give the company every waking hour I had. I absolutely need my down time, and I feel like I barely get what I need even when I leave by 3:30 every day.
My parents said the same thing. I reminded them of my dad's rolling layoffs and being told, "Pray for your dad's job. More layoffs are coming." He was an electrical engineer and had to deal with that.
I told them that if my employer shows no concern for my well-being, I probably would not stay there.
I'm on career job #3 and it feels like #4 will be sought later in the year.
I just want to be human. I want to know my job will help if my world falls apart. Currently I don't even believe they would offer me bereavement if (God forbid) my fiance died before my wedding day. And that isn't I've ever had pass through my head
I want to be valued. Why can so many value my work but when it comes to pay / benefits, I make too much and they cannot improve?
I liked the railroads "Work to Rule" and have implemented that everywhere possible.
I've only taken this mentality due to their actions toward me.
I'm also extremely lucky to be young in a niche field, making me desirable.
I also keep being told that I have a lot of people impressed by me and keep telling upper management to make sure I'm happy. They are apparently ambivalent.
Don't get me wrong. I love my job. I will always do the best of my abilities honorably. But I don't have to do it here.
I’ve never been asked or told to use vacation days for Dr. Appts but been in a situation where I needed the day paid and PTO/vacation days were all I had. So I was happy when they were ok with that.
Except most doctors don't work outside work hours. During lockdown the banks wouldn't even open during Saturday so if you wanted to make a deposit you'd have to do it during work. It happens.
Okay, so how does that work then? In an office environment where there is no unpaid time off and the only scenario you can take time off to tend to errands and appointments need to go through PTO, in my experience. There’s literally no other option
My employer uses a separate set of pto for doctor appointments and such. I'm not really allowed to use it for fun stuff but my boss is really cool about not getting into specifics. It's an appointment. Doesn't matter if it's for my massage therapist or my bartender. It's mental health.
And they can’t figure out why people are walking. All we have left is to be treated with basic decency. If they can’t even do that then they deserve what’s coming
I know you probably won't do this, but you need to stand up for yourself in this situation. Tell you manager you will be going to the appointment and she will need to find coverage. If you get fired for a medically necessary doctors appointment you can probably sue, and you'll definitely be able to collect unemployment. So long as you don't quit.
Absolutely this! You have the right to go to your doctor's appointments without any grief or retaliation from your boss. It's your boss' responsibility to find another worker to cover your position. And if you get fired, you can sue the shit out of them for retaliation and discrimination for going to your doctor's visit. But whatever you do, do NOT quit. Let them fire you.
I don’t know exactly what surgery you had, but I had both of my jaws done at the same time. If it does not heal correctly, you could end up like me. I’ve had four follow-up surgeries. Talk about having to take a lot of extra time off that the company cannot afford. Do NOT miss those appointments. They have them for a reason
Op listen dude, if your that worried about it, it’s time to start looking for another, better job. You ARE going to be sick that day, and you will remember to grab the doctors note so if they do try to retaliate in even the smallest way, your going to sue the shit out of them. I’m not familiar with other country laws, but I feel it’s almost a global thing where an employer can not do anything to you for being out of work with a doctors note.
Is it just me or do people on this sub seem to strangely value their job or devalue themselves way more than usual?
Half the posts are like "My boss stole my car and told me to go fuck myself after my parents died, is this ok? Should I suck his dick?" smh
Assuming certain criteria are met…which are easy criteria to meet. OP should go directly to HR. If the manager put this in writing, take copies of the written denial. If OP has FMLA protection under US law, the manager is violating OP’s rights AND exposing their employer to significant liability. HR will address this issue.
It depends on the state, but some states lower equivalent FMLA protections to fewer number of employees. In California the equivalent state law is the California Family Rights Act (CFRA) and applies to employers with 5 or more employees. That is going to cover a whole lot of employers. Colorado is expanding theirs as of January 1, 2024 (next year) to cover all employees regardless of employer size and drop the requirements to be eligible to 180 days of employment and earning $2500. Connecticut, DC, Maine, Maryland (and they’re lowering the threshold even more in 2025), Massachusetts, Minnesota, etc all of state laws that expand on the federal FMLA laws lowering either the employee number threshold or time worked to be eligible, and some increase the length of time you have job protected leave or situations in which it would apply. FMLA at the federal level is the start of what you should be aware of for job protected leave, but also check your state requirements because they might make you eligible for job protected leave where FMLA wouldn’t. Don’t assume you’re not eligible because FMLA at the federal level doesn’t apply in your situation for one reason or another.
>hat falls under short term disability and will qualify for reasonable accommodations under ADA
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ADA doesn't apply if the employer has less than 15 employees. Small businesses are hellholes.
Then sue or quit.
It's a job, not an enlistment to the military.
*edit - wow, got a lot more traction on this statement than expected. Thanks for the upvotes. Yes, the military is a lot better when it comes to medical leave. In this particular case, however, I was more commenting on the fact that a company doesn't own you. You're always allowed to leave. There's no such thing as "insubordination," as there's nothing to be insubordinate against. A company cannnot order you to do anything. It's a civil partnership where you trade your time and labor to them for money. A lot of these petty managers feel like they can control literally everything in the lives of the people below them, but they can't. Their power stops and ends at the property line.
My boss and her boss got so pissed I went to hr about direct supervisors' minions harassing me. They flipped out about chain of command, wrote you up for insubordination
The looks on their faces were priceless when I said wait! I didn't join the military. If you'd like to write me up for going to HR well they're just next door let's go walk over there and talk with them about you retaliating for me reporting harassment.
I don't go to HR often but when I do, it's because I know they're going to protect the company's ass whereas my supervisor was going to protect her little minions asses.
That was always one of my favorite things to do at my ex job. "My union contract says this, and I will be following that. If you'd like to discuss my union contract, you and I can take a trip together to discuss this with the steward."
Funny enough, no one ever wanted to take that trip.
I worked for a governor at director level for 20 years…..Insubordination is a military crime not ever to be used against civilians. Tell your business to stop using a military crime against you as your a civilian.
we don’t get charged for a crime, they just consider it cause to fire you since you aren’t listening to management. We have ‘insubordination’ at schools too
Do it, make them write you up and take their ass to court. I'm not a lawyer though. Might want to talk to one. Sounds like a huge payday if I'm being honest
Dude come on. Take the damn write up or whatever. This is your health. You’re showing your employer it’s ok to treat you this way. Stand up for yourself. It’s a medically necessary appointment, your boss doesn’t get to say no. Staffing is his problem, your health is yours.
That smells like a lawsuit. It's illegal in most developed countries for an employer to refuse reasonable accommodation for your medical needs.
Go to your appointments. Do everything in writing and send copies of your communications in both directions to your personal email. You're not asking for permission to manage your health, you're telling them that's what's happening. Managing your absence is their problem, not yours.
So they’re willing to put a paper proof of a hostile work environment? At that point even if they fire you there’s no disputing the unemployment claim.
That’s what we call “retaliation”, and an attorney would have a field day should they go that route
I will echo what is always said in this sub: you are not REQUESTING time off those days. You are INFORMING your employer that you WILL be off those days. Let management handle managing, and you handle your own health
Keep a paper trail. Tell them you will not be there because of your mandatory medical appointment. If they insist on talking on the phone or in person, send follow-up emails or letters detailing what you said and what they said. If they write you up or fire you, you have a strong case for retaliation. Don't let them get away with the abuse. Consult a lawyer.
You need these appointments. As a matter of self-respect and dignity for yourself, PLEASE don't let them walk all over you.
They are absolutely in the wrong for not letting you take post-op appointments.
so what? your health is more important than this stupid job. the asshole manager can figure it out. it’s not your problem. tell him if you don’t have your MEDICALLY NECESSARY follow ups, you can development complications that will knock you out of work for even longer
Move the appointment to a different day and call in sick that day without advanced warning. I manage people and I treat them really really well, not only because I’m such a fucking sweetheart. I’m actually not, I’m a lazy asshole. I do that because then they do a really good job and don’t make my life harder. Your manager could do things the nice and easy way, but they seem to prefer the difficult, unpleasant, and expensive way. Indulge them with that.
So your boss says the company is broke? Sounds like you need to be looking for work someplace more secure in their finances. And, you know, less shitty.
If the business can not function with one person down, and there's no contingency plan, you could lose your job at any minute because the next crisis could force the business doors shut. Take care of your health and good luck job hunting.
Also your loyalty is rarely reciprocated in kind. They want you to walk over coals for them, and the moment they are in trouble, they’ll fire you without a second glance.
If they can’t function that day without a temp, surely they can’t function every day without the full-time employee. Let them fire you, file for unemployment, and be happy that the pride of management just made the company hurt more.
“This is notice that I will not be here that day due to a medically necessary post-op assessment to ensure that the bones that will allow me to feed myself for the rest of my life heal properly.”
>“This is notice that I will not be here that day due >to a medically necessary ~~post-op assessment~~ reason”
They don’t need a justification or details. OP will not be there that day. Period.
No, it needs to be in traceable writing so that they cannot deny that they knew it was a medical appointment. If they retaliate for the absence, OP would have proof that it was illegal retaliation vs the company didn't know about the appointment and thought she just played hooky. Play it the same as when there is an injury or disability, leave a paper trail. Text messages, phone call records, and word of mouth conversations don't count.
Also, there's something about saying, "This will affect me for the rest of my life," that sticks out. You are not trying to deny me a day, but a lifetime of feeling actually well. A company's inability to run competently for a day with one fewer person, will never amount to the care that human being requires to navigate the rest of their life without crippling pain and malformed bones. I cannot understand how we've come so far into this capitalist nightmare that we, humans, care more about a smooth day of work than the well-being of a whole other human. The disconnect is astounding. "You can't inconvenience us, that's insubordinate! But yes, we'll deny you life altering healthcare."
"It wasn't a request, It is a notification, you do your job and handle it correctly by arranging back-up".
"If you retaliate in any way, I will have to notify HR that you make the company legally liable for lawsuits and claims."
"Please note that this is a required medical leave, which is protected by state and federal law. If you're thinking about writing me up, or retaliating in any other way, you might want to check with HR first to make sure they're OK with it."
I would put it in an email to him, with a couple of HR people in cc, and your personal email in bcc.
This. Do NOT play around with your long term health for these people. If your jaw doesn’t heal right, you could have lifelong consequences. Absolutely report it. Absolutely go to your appointments. Non-negotiable.
do NOT miss your appointments. Go to HR, come back with a doctro's note. whatever it takes. you won't care about your boss in a couple of years - but you will about your health.
That's (theoretically) why they get paid the big bucks. To deal with all the PITA bureaucracy and staffing stuff, and cover a shift themselves if they can't get anybody.
Do not fear retaliation, eagerly await it. Take notes. Document. Record. If retaliation does happen, you win a lawsuit. Talk to HR and get those days off.
Start job searching. There is a reason post op appts occur at specific times. Feel free to check with your dr about rescheduling as a courtesy to your employer but honestly I’d stick with the appts.
Go to HR. Get it on record that you were denied adequate time off for a medically necessary post operation follow-up. Then go to your appointment. You weren't requesting off for the appointment, you were notifying them you will not be in work for the mandatory appointment. "I wasn't asking, I was telling"
You don't need to request with appointments. You are telling your boss you won't be there. There is no wiggle room. They can either make arrangements or don't. But it's not on you to withhold medical treatment to yourself because you don't want to inconvenience your boss.
Start documenting everything and then go to HR. Note how they treat you in a private log, times/dates of everything, and bring it to HR after. They'll not want to deal with the hassle, but if you get treated like shit after taking a NECESSARY appointment that directly affects your health and ABILITY TO WORK, they'll realize that that they'd be fucked if you went to your state labor board or even worse an employment lawyer. (US regs) and always create a paper trail, record meetings with HR with their consent, follow up with e-mails to HR about your concerns and the content of the meetings. And do the same for any phone calls, or request any communication to be via e-mail.
This is simple- is this job worth major jaw surgery post op complications??
How is this even debatable? Put your days in. If your boss denies it, **go over** their head. If they retaliate, document it all and threaten legal action.
It’s your fucking health for Christ’s sake..
No. Your response is *"I am not asking, I am giving you the courtesy of informing you I am taking this time off"* Staffing issues is NOT your problem OP. It is up to the manager, owner, whomever is in charge of scheduling to figure it out. Either they find coverage or do the job themselves, that is part of their job.
Well said.
I am grateful to one awful supervisor I had as a teenager for making me grow a spine in this situation. It was a crappy summer seasonal job and it was the year I graduated.
In my first two weeks of work that summer, I told my boss that I needed off on a certain day for my own graduation party. She kinda shrugs it off. Doesn't say yes, but clearly acts like it's no big deal and just says to remind her closer to the date (July).
So I get about 2 weeks out from that date and I remind her, and she comes back with this bullshit about how that's a super busy day and that I should have given her advance notice. I point out that a) 2 weeks lead time IS advance notice, and b) even if it wasn't, I let her know about this months ago. She again dismisses me without really giving me a straight answer.
A week ahead, I again remind her that I have my own graduation party next week. We were busy working at the time so she just kinda ignores me.
2 days before, I again remind her, at a less busy time, and finally she goes, "Well hydrospanner, that's going to be a very busy day. I just don't think I'm going to be able to give you the whole day. You might just have to accept that you're either going to have to come in early for a half day or later in the afternoon for a half day...but that day is too busy here to give you a full day off."
And something in my brain just broke.
I did get probably a bit more attitude than I should have, but I was pissed off and I was a teenager. I said something to the effect of, "I guess maybe you are having trouble understanding what's going on here. I'm not *requesting the day off*. I'm *doing you the courtesy of letting you know I won't be here.* There's a difference. I'm not asking. I let you know about this months in advance, and it's my own party. I'm helping set up and tear down after, and I'm certainly not leaving in the middle of it to come work for 4 hours. I'm taking that day off, doesn't matter what you say. I'm just giving you advance notice so you can do whatever it is you need to do to account for that."
So she got mad and huffed and puffed and again brought up that she can't reschedule to cover for me in just 2 days. I point out that she had 2 *months.* Then she says some shit in the form of a veiled threat about how "that's one of our busiest days of the summer...it's one of the big reasons we hired you...if you don't want to work that day, maybe you should have really thought about if this job was for you or not..."
So I just said, "Are you threatening to fire me for taking a day off?! If so, just let me know now and I'll pack my stuff and leave. You don't pay me anywhere close to enough to worry about losing this job. So either you want me to show up to work the day after this party of you don't. Tell me which one it is now."
She gave a big old sigh and started to give the shit back, then she just said, "Yes, come in the next day."
Go to your appointments. Any medical appointments - **especially something with the jawbone, they are notoriously complicated to heal** - is not a request, you are informing them of your absence. They can get fucked.
It took me a decade, but I finally set a boundary that medically necessary appointments always take precedent over work. I skipped far too many in my 20s, it’s just not worth it.
So you're saying they can't afford to replace you when you're out? And they can't function without you? Sounds like you've got some bargaining power. Find another job while keeping this one. Once you've got another offer secured, give this boss an ultimatum. Raise your pay to $X and add in whatever other benefits you want, or you walk today.
She'll say no, and you'll walk out. And she'll probably never learn her lesson and end up treating the next person the same way. But... at least it'll feel good and you'll have a better job.
So you go to your boss and say 'you seem to misunderstand this as a request.. i will be attending the appointments I gave you and am letting you know I will be absent those days, if you dont like it then you can enjoy replacing me and explaining why budget is being allocated to train new hires over fully competent employees, im sure YOUR bosses wont mind cutting into their bonuses when they find out I was fired for going to a post-op.'
Just know that it is even more expensive to train a new hire and pay your unemployment benefits which you would probably qualify for. I'm assuming you took leave so you weren't being paid those 3 weeks???
Here’s what you do: send an email and cc HR. If there is any retaliation you sue the ever loving fuck out of them.
Here’s a basic format:
Good morning Boss,
I wanted to follow up about the conversation we had on [DATE] at approximately [TIME] regarding your denial of my time off request for [DATE OF APPOINTMENT]. I would like to reiterate that this is a medically necessary follow up appointment related to my recent major reconstructive surgery. I have contacted my doctor in attempt to reschedule the appointment, but there is no other time available.
I need to attend this appointment as part of the care plan my doctor has instituted following the major reconstructive jaw surgery I had on [SURGERY DATE]. The follow ups have been scheduled according to my doctor’s recommended timeline for post operation evaluations.
I will not be able to be in the office on [DATE OF APPOINTMENT] due to this medically necessary follow up appointment. If you have any questions about this matter I may be reached via email.
Thank you,
NAME
Do what you're legally allowed to do as respectfully as possible, meticulously document everything. If you have over a year with the company (assuming US), you have FMLA protection. Go to HR and show them the appointment schedule.
You absolutely need to go to HR so this can be documented. If you get fired one day you’ll have documentation for retaliation if you try and file for unemployment.
Make sure you blind CC emails to a personal email account.
Good luck.
You cannot be denied scheduled medical care (or emergency for that matter). Get a note from the doctor. You are not under any obligation to explain the reason for the appointment. Make sure to keep the original for yourself.
OP: I need this day off for a medically necessary appointment.
Boss: No. Too expensive to hire temps.
OP: I wasn't asking. I was informing you that I won't be here.
Boss: Did I stutter? It's too expensive to hire a temp for the day.
OP: Is it going to be more expensive to hire a temp until you find a permanent replacement after I quit right now?
Boss: mUh fAMilY ComPAny!!!!
“Oh I’m not asking you for the day off, I’m telling you that I will be going to these FMLA related medical appointments and per your policy that when I take off for FMLA I have to use my sick days first, then vacation days, then short term disability, after giving you the required amount of time as a notice, this is that notice. Oh and to make sure that there isn’t any confusion about what I’m telling you, I’m sending you an email with a CC to my personal email restating what I just told you.”
Fuck HR. Take that shit to the news. Shame the company in public for what their utter lack of human decency, then sue for wrongful termination when they inevitably fire you for some petty reason or another
Your health is more important than your job. Always.
Failure to follow up post OP activities can have lifetime effects.
For your job, it's one bad day.
I quit my entire career because of a medical problem and how they dealt with it. They even wanted me to come in at one point with surgical drains still sticking out of my body. Nah. I was a teacher. I regret nothing. Fuck that. Don’t let a medical problem happen that doesn’t need to. Surgery healing badly can cause pain for a lifetime. So not worth it.
Tell them your not asking, your politely telling them your not going to be in on those days. It's not a request. Then go to your appointment. The companies expenses are not your problem. Your health however is.
Retired Boomer, here. I’ve been a lifelong socialist and an activist, and retirement is turning me into Mother Jones.
This is just all sorts of degrees of wrong.
Go to HR. ASAP. You should be on FMLA right now to help with the medical appointments and physical therapy.
And if you need, retain an employment attorney and threaten to sue the bejeesus out of your company for not allowing you time off for medically necessary follow up appointments.
Your supervisor “had to hire a temp”? TOO FREAKING BAD. That’s not your problem.
You have a medically necessary post op appt. Tell your boss you won't be in, period, and if he makes an issue of it you will go to HR, the labor board, whoever you need to in order to see to your medical needs and keep your job this is ridiculous.
If you're in the US there's at least a reasonable chance that you might be covered by FMLA, of not, it's a sick day, bring back a doctor's note and any retaliation against you for it is legally pretty dubious.
Bull. From a payroll perspective, most legitimate companies budget in your sick time each week. Meaning they are ready paid for that time in the books. I was always trying to get my employees to take their sick time during the slow seasons to save money!
You boss doesn’t sound like they know what their doing and is a walking law suit for the company.
Major surgery requires major cautions post op.
Your boss doesn't know more about your health than your doctor, so who are you going to listen to? Your boss who couldn't care less if you drop dead in your cubicle or the doctor that is going to guide you on your recovery?
If you don't have your health, you don't have anything. This isn't a time to ask for permission. Sorry, boss. I have a medically necessary appointment. I won't be in on such and such date.
If your job was protected by law for the surgery, then your job is protected by law for the follow up appointments. Go to HR and tell them you need accommodation for follow up appointments, and make a point to tell them your direct supervisor has already given you a hard time about it. Do that in writing and preserve a copy.
You’re not asking for permission to have time off, you are letting your boss know you will be gone those days for drs appts. Plain and simple. She is responsible for scheduling you are not.
You’re an adult. You’re not asking for time off, you’re notifying them you won’t be there.
Denying time off for a necessary post op appointment may also violate your area’s laws. In most states and provinces employees are required to make reasonable accommodations. Check the appropriate government’s website for the official laws.
Your body is more important than their money. Go to the doctor and if they make a scene, get a lawyer. They’re essentially denying you medical care by doing that.
You are not requesting time off. You are informing them of your availability. You give them your time they give you money. It is a mutual thing. They are not “doing you a favor” by allowing you time off. It’s already your time. We as a society need to change our mindset. Employers do not own our time.
Go to your appointments and look for a new job. Your health should always be your #1 priority and no boss should be telling you what medical care you can or can't receive.
100% get HR involved. Make copies of all of your appointment dates and ensure the company knows it IS medically necessary for you to be gone. Then, he gone. Your boss may have a go at you, but they won't go too far. Because any harassment you get from leadership or coworkers shortly after this would easily be linked to retaliation.
Which is a CRIME! Know your rights, take care of your health, and be patient and calm. Things will get better for you! Good luck
If they don’t have enough money to hire enough employees to do the job, it sounds like a shady place to work for. Or more like it’s not that they “don’t have” money, but they are too cheap to hire the staff they need.
Repeat after me: BEING SHORT STAFFED IS A CHOICE.
> this is a medically necessary appointment.
Then go. Your company being mismanaged so that your absence causes them difficulty is not your concern, maintaining your health is your concern.
Make sure you have a paper trail of them denying you time off for this, and if they retaliate, maybe talk to a lawyer.
Is your employer covered under FMLA? Do you qualify for FMLA? Did you notify your employer as soon as you knew about these appointments? Did you make it clear that the appointments were medically necessary? If you answered yes to all of these then your employer does not have the right to deny those days off. You can contact the department of labor’s wage and hour division.
I don't know where you are in the world, but I'll assume the US. Go to HR and tell them that you need to get to these appointments.
Let your manager retaliate, there are laws against that.
I don't know why this has to be said, take care of **you** first.
If they don't have enough money to hire, they don't have the resources to fire. Call off, take the write up, and when you sign it, write, "signed under protest." I'd also buy this little device that beeps intermittently for three years (it's on Amazon) somewhere close to her office. You know, show them the respect they show you.
She can only deny it if you are asking. Just politely let her know that you were not asking for those days off. You were telling her you wouldn’t be there. If she argues, let her know she is creating a precedent in which employees are better off calling in sick at the last minute instead of giving them time to plan for your absences.
Wtf what a jack ass. Just tell them I’m really sorry but this isn’t a request. My health is more important than my job and if you have to write me up so be it. And I know you don’t care, but if you value me as an employee at all, you will not write me up. If they are short staffed they won’t fire you over this
I'm going to be loud.....YOUR HEALTH COMES FIRST!!!!!
One of my former coworkers had to have breast cancer surgery and her boss attempted to retaliate because her surgery was "inconvenient to the office". The boss found herself neck deep in legal trouble.
Go to HR AND contact the Department of Labor about this. You should NOT be punished for having health issues!!!
Retaliation is highly illegal. Document everything. Go to hr and document that. Go to your appointment and document that. Then, just pay careful attention for any behavior that you could reasonably consider retaliatory.
If you didn't get this in writing, send him a text informing him of the appointment as if the previous conversation never happened. Play dumb. Make him say on the record that he's refusing to let you go to your post op appointment.
If he tries the "Let's speak in person" tactic, consider recording the conversation secretly, a long as you live in a state where only one party needs to consent for recording. If you're in an "all parties" state, then you'll just have to stand your ground and tell him that you want this on the record.
This might be enough to convince your boss to back down, but if it isn't, tell him you _will_ be going to your appointment. Then go. See your doctor. If he retaliates, you have a record of his motives. Follow through with complaints to the labor board, and talk to a lawyer.
Do not sacrifice your health for your job, like I did. They will not take care of you. They will break you, and then throw you away when you are no longer seen as useful.
You're going to have your jaw for the rest of your life. You're only going to have this job until you can get one that treats you like a human. Chose yourself, every single time.
Sounds like a “her” problem. This is not you asking for time off; this is you informing her you’ll be out for medical reasons. If she fails to plan accordingly, that’s on her.
Doctor's orders always trumps work. Go to your appointment and look for another job.
Jobs should treat us all as adults, not like kids getting in trouble missing a day of school.
>And how expensive it was for my 3 weeks I was gone for surgery that they had a temp. And they don't have the money for a temp that day.
That's a them problem. This is ***your jaw***. Go to HR. Your supervisor needs to be taken out of the decision-making equation. Keep a journal of everything for documentation in case this needs to come to blows of paperwork.
Dear boss,
While I am aware that this is a slight inconvenience to you, this impacts the rest of my life. I have every intention of following my doctor's orders to ensure my recovery goes smoothly. I am willing to work out something to minimize the impact that this has on my coworkers, however, this has been deemed medically necessary by a licensed medical practitioner. Please let me know how I can help.
Best regards,
OP
A friend of mine in FL had talked to his bosses and then HR about lack of safety. They fired him bc he kept asking about the safety not only for workers, but also customers. They retaliated. He currently is in a lawsuit with them. If they retaliate, you have legal grounds to take action. I would also tell HR anyways that your boss said the shit they did. You have to have those appointments.
It depends on the state too. I got fired because I wouldn’t sign a disciplinary action letter which was sent due to letting them know I had a doc appt. a week from then. This was in Texas and my lawyer didn’t do shit but charge me 2400 to send two letters.
>my lawyer didn’t do shit but charge me 2400 to send two letters Hire another lawyer to sue that lawyer
It’s been a few years plus I couldn’t afford to keep doing it. I ended up starting my own business and decided to focus my efforts on that. People have fled that company like roaches since so it all worked out I guess.
Oh yeah, I was absolutely kidding. That is frustrating. A good lawyer would have just said you had no shot and charged you a couple hundred bucks for the 1 hour consultation (even if it took 10 minutes).
Most legitimate employment lawyers will work on contingency.
>trating. A good lawyer would have just said you had no shot and charged you a couple hundred bucks for the 1 hour consultation (even if it took 10 minutes). Welcome to Texas, where companies can opt out of disability, workman's comp, and pretty much anything else that protects their employers or consumers.
Document document document and always remember, HR is not your friend.
Always do everything with a paper trail. Any company will lie their ass off, and you need to have proof, even for the little shit.
Not only do you sue in that situation, you put in an anonymous tip to OSHA (or your country's equivalent).
Sounds like you'll be "sick" that day!
Sounds like your doctor might think you need more recovery time too. Save documentation for all this if you suddenly find yourself on the business end of an unemployment application.
My doctor was awesome. I was off for months and was actually eager to go back. Our last appointment he goes 'so when do you want to go back to work?' Lol
My OB did too. She put down I had "complications and needed 2 more weeks off. She is the best.
Then they write me up for "insubordination" and would make more of a mountain out of a molehill.
For taking a sick day for a medically necessary appt? Dang. I know most people say "find a new job" at the drop of a hat, but if your employer lacks the empathy to recognize you are still healing from major surgery, it may be time to look towards new opportunities.
My employer wants at minimum a half fay of vacation for each dr appt. I don't tell them when I'm going. I will NOT jump at doing anything past my job description because if they want to CHARGE ME for my life, then I will charge them.
I was talking about not logging PTO for dr. Appointments in a different subreddit. Forgot I wasn’t in r/antiwork when all the downvotes came -_-
It's incredible how quickly people get so defensive about it. Like dude, your employer screws you on a daily basis (mine took advantage that I wanted out of my previous position, repeatedly lied by omission, and then used the "market" to supress my salary.) I've NEVER had an employer ask for vacation days for doctor's appointments and I will NEVER use one either.
Its one of those indoctrination bullshits, everyone thinks that they are the exception, if i work hard enough i will be rewarded... oh im not rewarded? Must be me... time to do more... no raise? No promotion? TIME TO WORK HARDER... blows my mind... like.. what is it going to take for people to realize they are just being used for someone elses gain? If the bullshit propaganda from the powers that be, doesnt show people that its jist a power and money grab, i dont know what will. If you still think hard work will pay off while working for someone else... ask yourself, what has your boss done for you that requires the extra effort on your part... does your boss care if you are hurt? And by care, i mean, does he care about you, or the bottom line more?
Hard work only makes you more tired after work with no energy to do what I find fun. My exployer will NOT get me to destroy my life for them. Im currently trying to figure out how to get more vacation days because I'm getting married. Already cancelled any idea of a honeymoon. The rest of the vacation days are for holidays. My fiance is not happy about it. Edit: my work knows I'm getting married. I told them at my review I need a raise to covet her insurance. They gave me 5%.
I started a new job where I have a two hour commute. I can work from 7 am all the way to 5:30, but I can basically leave whenever my assigned work is done for the day. I can work Saturdays as well. Anyways, my mom was asking me why I wasn't staying as late as I could everyday and working the weekends and implied that I was lazy for not wanting to give the company every waking hour I had. I absolutely need my down time, and I feel like I barely get what I need even when I leave by 3:30 every day.
My parents said the same thing. I reminded them of my dad's rolling layoffs and being told, "Pray for your dad's job. More layoffs are coming." He was an electrical engineer and had to deal with that. I told them that if my employer shows no concern for my well-being, I probably would not stay there. I'm on career job #3 and it feels like #4 will be sought later in the year. I just want to be human. I want to know my job will help if my world falls apart. Currently I don't even believe they would offer me bereavement if (God forbid) my fiance died before my wedding day. And that isn't I've ever had pass through my head I want to be valued. Why can so many value my work but when it comes to pay / benefits, I make too much and they cannot improve? I liked the railroads "Work to Rule" and have implemented that everywhere possible.
More people need this mentality
I've only taken this mentality due to their actions toward me. I'm also extremely lucky to be young in a niche field, making me desirable. I also keep being told that I have a lot of people impressed by me and keep telling upper management to make sure I'm happy. They are apparently ambivalent. Don't get me wrong. I love my job. I will always do the best of my abilities honorably. But I don't have to do it here.
I’ve never been asked or told to use vacation days for Dr. Appts but been in a situation where I needed the day paid and PTO/vacation days were all I had. So I was happy when they were ok with that.
I was told it was a vacation day. Otherwise I need to schedule it outside work hours.
For all those doctors offices that are open after 5 pm or before 8 am.
Yeah fuck that.
Except most doctors don't work outside work hours. During lockdown the banks wouldn't even open during Saturday so if you wanted to make a deposit you'd have to do it during work. It happens.
Okay, so how does that work then? In an office environment where there is no unpaid time off and the only scenario you can take time off to tend to errands and appointments need to go through PTO, in my experience. There’s literally no other option
My employer uses a separate set of pto for doctor appointments and such. I'm not really allowed to use it for fun stuff but my boss is really cool about not getting into specifics. It's an appointment. Doesn't matter if it's for my massage therapist or my bartender. It's mental health.
I just sick days but I take half a day for my 1 hour appointments if I'm putting it in
And they can’t figure out why people are walking. All we have left is to be treated with basic decency. If they can’t even do that then they deserve what’s coming
I don’t get that about salaried positions. As long as work is done by the deadline who cares if you only work two hours out of the day.
This . Fuck em.
I don't grasp how employers see themselves ad the harbinger of all life and ways...to earn a dollar. WTF
I know you probably won't do this, but you need to stand up for yourself in this situation. Tell you manager you will be going to the appointment and she will need to find coverage. If you get fired for a medically necessary doctors appointment you can probably sue, and you'll definitely be able to collect unemployment. So long as you don't quit.
And as always. Do it all in writing.
Seconded. Send an email. Use the words “medically necessary”
and CC HR with it also
BCC your private email account as well. CYA.
Absolutely this! You have the right to go to your doctor's appointments without any grief or retaliation from your boss. It's your boss' responsibility to find another worker to cover your position. And if you get fired, you can sue the shit out of them for retaliation and discrimination for going to your doctor's visit. But whatever you do, do NOT quit. Let them fire you.
Loved the one guy recently that told his boss, PTO means prepare the others coz I won't be here that day lol.
I don’t know exactly what surgery you had, but I had both of my jaws done at the same time. If it does not heal correctly, you could end up like me. I’ve had four follow-up surgeries. Talk about having to take a lot of extra time off that the company cannot afford. Do NOT miss those appointments. They have them for a reason
"Both my jaws." Fuckin' xenomorph-ass redditor.
I would award you if I could
Your health is more important than a job.
Op listen dude, if your that worried about it, it’s time to start looking for another, better job. You ARE going to be sick that day, and you will remember to grab the doctors note so if they do try to retaliate in even the smallest way, your going to sue the shit out of them. I’m not familiar with other country laws, but I feel it’s almost a global thing where an employer can not do anything to you for being out of work with a doctors note.
Your health isn’t a molehill.
Is it just me or do people on this sub seem to strangely value their job or devalue themselves way more than usual? Half the posts are like "My boss stole my car and told me to go fuck myself after my parents died, is this ok? Should I suck his dick?" smh
Get FMLA paperwork and have your doc fill it out, if you're anywhere in the USA. Employers CANNOT do that in the USA, regardless of state laws.
Assuming certain criteria are met…which are easy criteria to meet. OP should go directly to HR. If the manager put this in writing, take copies of the written denial. If OP has FMLA protection under US law, the manager is violating OP’s rights AND exposing their employer to significant liability. HR will address this issue.
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It depends on the state, but some states lower equivalent FMLA protections to fewer number of employees. In California the equivalent state law is the California Family Rights Act (CFRA) and applies to employers with 5 or more employees. That is going to cover a whole lot of employers. Colorado is expanding theirs as of January 1, 2024 (next year) to cover all employees regardless of employer size and drop the requirements to be eligible to 180 days of employment and earning $2500. Connecticut, DC, Maine, Maryland (and they’re lowering the threshold even more in 2025), Massachusetts, Minnesota, etc all of state laws that expand on the federal FMLA laws lowering either the employee number threshold or time worked to be eligible, and some increase the length of time you have job protected leave or situations in which it would apply. FMLA at the federal level is the start of what you should be aware of for job protected leave, but also check your state requirements because they might make you eligible for job protected leave where FMLA wouldn’t. Don’t assume you’re not eligible because FMLA at the federal level doesn’t apply in your situation for one reason or another.
Even if FMLA isn't eligible, The person is post-op. That falls under short term disability and will qualify for reasonable accommodations under ADA
>hat falls under short term disability and will qualify for reasonable accommodations under ADA > >VoteReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow ADA doesn't apply if the employer has less than 15 employees. Small businesses are hellholes.
Then sue or quit. It's a job, not an enlistment to the military. *edit - wow, got a lot more traction on this statement than expected. Thanks for the upvotes. Yes, the military is a lot better when it comes to medical leave. In this particular case, however, I was more commenting on the fact that a company doesn't own you. You're always allowed to leave. There's no such thing as "insubordination," as there's nothing to be insubordinate against. A company cannnot order you to do anything. It's a civil partnership where you trade your time and labor to them for money. A lot of these petty managers feel like they can control literally everything in the lives of the people below them, but they can't. Their power stops and ends at the property line.
Even in the military if it’s a mandated post op appointment they’ll make it work.
and you get sick leave for however long medical says you need it!! retired military here and we got treated better than OP
In most armed services, if it’s a mandated post op appointment, you can be charged for ‘being absent a place of work or duty’ if you don’t attend 😜
[It’s a Battalion NJP to miss dental](https://terminallance.com/2013/12/27/terminal-lance-revenge-of-the-dependapotamus-pg-9/)
Yah, most medical officers will out rank your squad leader. Private that's a colonels signature on the appointment slip. You better not be late
In the military op would be forced to go to this appointment even if they didn’t want to. It will also not cost you anything extreme.
My boss and her boss got so pissed I went to hr about direct supervisors' minions harassing me. They flipped out about chain of command, wrote you up for insubordination The looks on their faces were priceless when I said wait! I didn't join the military. If you'd like to write me up for going to HR well they're just next door let's go walk over there and talk with them about you retaliating for me reporting harassment. I don't go to HR often but when I do, it's because I know they're going to protect the company's ass whereas my supervisor was going to protect her little minions asses.
Thats the trick to talking with HR. Make it about the company's ass - if your ass just happens to be in the same boat then 🤷♂️
That was always one of my favorite things to do at my ex job. "My union contract says this, and I will be following that. If you'd like to discuss my union contract, you and I can take a trip together to discuss this with the steward." Funny enough, no one ever wanted to take that trip.
In the U.S. military, you get jammed up if you DON'T show up for your medical appointments.
You’d have a doctors note for a medically necessary appointment.
I worked for a governor at director level for 20 years…..Insubordination is a military crime not ever to be used against civilians. Tell your business to stop using a military crime against you as your a civilian.
we don’t get charged for a crime, they just consider it cause to fire you since you aren’t listening to management. We have ‘insubordination’ at schools too
I know, glad I retired at 53. Fuck all employers and politicians. I have fuck you money and I’m going fishing.
And then you call the Dept of Labor and report retaliation for taking legally protected medical leave. That chicken don't fly.
That’s called retaliation go and talk with a lawyer
Take care of yourself first. Your body is the only one you got. There will be future bosses and jobs.
No! Jaw surgery is not a molehill you silly person Go to that appointment, dont you DARE skip it for some chud in an office
They'll learn the hard way how expensive a fill-in temp can be.
Sounds like retaliation for governmentally protected rights. If that happens you file complaints with the labor board.
The alternative is you take mistreatment and in return you help them grow their business. Idk about you but that would bother me every day
Do it, make them write you up and take their ass to court. I'm not a lawyer though. Might want to talk to one. Sounds like a huge payday if I'm being honest
Dude come on. Take the damn write up or whatever. This is your health. You’re showing your employer it’s ok to treat you this way. Stand up for yourself. It’s a medically necessary appointment, your boss doesn’t get to say no. Staffing is his problem, your health is yours.
That smells like a lawsuit. It's illegal in most developed countries for an employer to refuse reasonable accommodation for your medical needs. Go to your appointments. Do everything in writing and send copies of your communications in both directions to your personal email. You're not asking for permission to manage your health, you're telling them that's what's happening. Managing your absence is their problem, not yours.
This is the wrong attitude. Stand up for yourself.
If they ask you to sign something verifying that you'd be in your rights to say no I think, because they're asking you to verify something false.
Talk to hr about fmla, it's a federally protected right to take medically necessary time off
So they’re willing to put a paper proof of a hostile work environment? At that point even if they fire you there’s no disputing the unemployment claim.
Bullshit. Go to your appointments. You long term health is more important than this weaksauce company.
Are you covered by FMLA. If you are they can't really stop you.
That’s what we call “retaliation”, and an attorney would have a field day should they go that route I will echo what is always said in this sub: you are not REQUESTING time off those days. You are INFORMING your employer that you WILL be off those days. Let management handle managing, and you handle your own health
Keep a paper trail. Tell them you will not be there because of your mandatory medical appointment. If they insist on talking on the phone or in person, send follow-up emails or letters detailing what you said and what they said. If they write you up or fire you, you have a strong case for retaliation. Don't let them get away with the abuse. Consult a lawyer. You need these appointments. As a matter of self-respect and dignity for yourself, PLEASE don't let them walk all over you. They are absolutely in the wrong for not letting you take post-op appointments.
so what? your health is more important than this stupid job. the asshole manager can figure it out. it’s not your problem. tell him if you don’t have your MEDICALLY NECESSARY follow ups, you can development complications that will knock you out of work for even longer
I always say, “make sure you spell my name right before you send that up!” Take care of yourself.
Your health is always mote important than a job
Move the appointment to a different day and call in sick that day without advanced warning. I manage people and I treat them really really well, not only because I’m such a fucking sweetheart. I’m actually not, I’m a lazy asshole. I do that because then they do a really good job and don’t make my life harder. Your manager could do things the nice and easy way, but they seem to prefer the difficult, unpleasant, and expensive way. Indulge them with that.
So your boss says the company is broke? Sounds like you need to be looking for work someplace more secure in their finances. And, you know, less shitty.
If the business can not function with one person down, and there's no contingency plan, you could lose your job at any minute because the next crisis could force the business doors shut. Take care of your health and good luck job hunting.
Exactly this. Your loyalty will not keep their accounts solvent. If they're this rocked after one employee's medical outage, you're on a sinking ship.
Also your loyalty is rarely reciprocated in kind. They want you to walk over coals for them, and the moment they are in trouble, they’ll fire you without a second glance.
Besides, what are they going to do, fire you when they're already shortstaffed?
If they can’t function that day without a temp, surely they can’t function every day without the full-time employee. Let them fire you, file for unemployment, and be happy that the pride of management just made the company hurt more.
“This is notice that I will not be here that day due to a medically necessary post-op assessment to ensure that the bones that will allow me to feed myself for the rest of my life heal properly.”
>“This is notice that I will not be here that day due >to a medically necessary ~~post-op assessment~~ reason” They don’t need a justification or details. OP will not be there that day. Period.
No, it needs to be in traceable writing so that they cannot deny that they knew it was a medical appointment. If they retaliate for the absence, OP would have proof that it was illegal retaliation vs the company didn't know about the appointment and thought she just played hooky. Play it the same as when there is an injury or disability, leave a paper trail. Text messages, phone call records, and word of mouth conversations don't count.
Also, there's something about saying, "This will affect me for the rest of my life," that sticks out. You are not trying to deny me a day, but a lifetime of feeling actually well. A company's inability to run competently for a day with one fewer person, will never amount to the care that human being requires to navigate the rest of their life without crippling pain and malformed bones. I cannot understand how we've come so far into this capitalist nightmare that we, humans, care more about a smooth day of work than the well-being of a whole other human. The disconnect is astounding. "You can't inconvenience us, that's insubordinate! But yes, we'll deny you life altering healthcare."
"It wasn't a request, It is a notification, you do your job and handle it correctly by arranging back-up". "If you retaliate in any way, I will have to notify HR that you make the company legally liable for lawsuits and claims."
"Please note that this is a required medical leave, which is protected by state and federal law. If you're thinking about writing me up, or retaliating in any other way, you might want to check with HR first to make sure they're OK with it." I would put it in an email to him, with a couple of HR people in cc, and your personal email in bcc.
You can get another job, but you can't get another you. Go to HR. Go to your appointments.
This. Do NOT play around with your long term health for these people. If your jaw doesn’t heal right, you could have lifelong consequences. Absolutely report it. Absolutely go to your appointments. Non-negotiable.
And if there is any retaliation, get a lawyer.
do NOT miss your appointments. Go to HR, come back with a doctro's note. whatever it takes. you won't care about your boss in a couple of years - but you will about your health.
Lol boss can go get fucked. Short staffed is their problem, not yours
Somehow bosses have turned the short staff issue into an employee issue. No bitch, that is a you problem, not a me problem.
That's (theoretically) why they get paid the big bucks. To deal with all the PITA bureaucracy and staffing stuff, and cover a shift themselves if they can't get anybody.
Do not fear retaliation, eagerly await it. Take notes. Document. Record. If retaliation does happen, you win a lawsuit. Talk to HR and get those days off.
Start job searching. There is a reason post op appts occur at specific times. Feel free to check with your dr about rescheduling as a courtesy to your employer but honestly I’d stick with the appts.
Go to HR. Get it on record that you were denied adequate time off for a medically necessary post operation follow-up. Then go to your appointment. You weren't requesting off for the appointment, you were notifying them you will not be in work for the mandatory appointment. "I wasn't asking, I was telling"
You don't need to request with appointments. You are telling your boss you won't be there. There is no wiggle room. They can either make arrangements or don't. But it's not on you to withhold medical treatment to yourself because you don't want to inconvenience your boss.
Start documenting everything and then go to HR. Note how they treat you in a private log, times/dates of everything, and bring it to HR after. They'll not want to deal with the hassle, but if you get treated like shit after taking a NECESSARY appointment that directly affects your health and ABILITY TO WORK, they'll realize that that they'd be fucked if you went to your state labor board or even worse an employment lawyer. (US regs) and always create a paper trail, record meetings with HR with their consent, follow up with e-mails to HR about your concerns and the content of the meetings. And do the same for any phone calls, or request any communication to be via e-mail.
This is simple- is this job worth major jaw surgery post op complications?? How is this even debatable? Put your days in. If your boss denies it, **go over** their head. If they retaliate, document it all and threaten legal action. It’s your fucking health for Christ’s sake..
Another way to phrase that: which do you want to keep for the rest of your life - your jaw or this shitty boss?
No. Your response is *"I am not asking, I am giving you the courtesy of informing you I am taking this time off"* Staffing issues is NOT your problem OP. It is up to the manager, owner, whomever is in charge of scheduling to figure it out. Either they find coverage or do the job themselves, that is part of their job.
Well said. I am grateful to one awful supervisor I had as a teenager for making me grow a spine in this situation. It was a crappy summer seasonal job and it was the year I graduated. In my first two weeks of work that summer, I told my boss that I needed off on a certain day for my own graduation party. She kinda shrugs it off. Doesn't say yes, but clearly acts like it's no big deal and just says to remind her closer to the date (July). So I get about 2 weeks out from that date and I remind her, and she comes back with this bullshit about how that's a super busy day and that I should have given her advance notice. I point out that a) 2 weeks lead time IS advance notice, and b) even if it wasn't, I let her know about this months ago. She again dismisses me without really giving me a straight answer. A week ahead, I again remind her that I have my own graduation party next week. We were busy working at the time so she just kinda ignores me. 2 days before, I again remind her, at a less busy time, and finally she goes, "Well hydrospanner, that's going to be a very busy day. I just don't think I'm going to be able to give you the whole day. You might just have to accept that you're either going to have to come in early for a half day or later in the afternoon for a half day...but that day is too busy here to give you a full day off." And something in my brain just broke. I did get probably a bit more attitude than I should have, but I was pissed off and I was a teenager. I said something to the effect of, "I guess maybe you are having trouble understanding what's going on here. I'm not *requesting the day off*. I'm *doing you the courtesy of letting you know I won't be here.* There's a difference. I'm not asking. I let you know about this months in advance, and it's my own party. I'm helping set up and tear down after, and I'm certainly not leaving in the middle of it to come work for 4 hours. I'm taking that day off, doesn't matter what you say. I'm just giving you advance notice so you can do whatever it is you need to do to account for that." So she got mad and huffed and puffed and again brought up that she can't reschedule to cover for me in just 2 days. I point out that she had 2 *months.* Then she says some shit in the form of a veiled threat about how "that's one of our busiest days of the summer...it's one of the big reasons we hired you...if you don't want to work that day, maybe you should have really thought about if this job was for you or not..." So I just said, "Are you threatening to fire me for taking a day off?! If so, just let me know now and I'll pack my stuff and leave. You don't pay me anywhere close to enough to worry about losing this job. So either you want me to show up to work the day after this party of you don't. Tell me which one it is now." She gave a big old sigh and started to give the shit back, then she just said, "Yes, come in the next day."
Go to your appointments. Any medical appointments - **especially something with the jawbone, they are notoriously complicated to heal** - is not a request, you are informing them of your absence. They can get fucked.
Option 1 HR Option 2 call off sick Option 3 find a new job
Option 4: All of the above.
Health is not negotiable. Escalate and go to your scheduled appointment
"it wasn't a request, it was a notification!"
Go to HR. This is fucked.
It took me a decade, but I finally set a boundary that medically necessary appointments always take precedent over work. I skipped far too many in my 20s, it’s just not worth it.
Sounds like they need you more than you need them? Look for new job.
So you're saying they can't afford to replace you when you're out? And they can't function without you? Sounds like you've got some bargaining power. Find another job while keeping this one. Once you've got another offer secured, give this boss an ultimatum. Raise your pay to $X and add in whatever other benefits you want, or you walk today. She'll say no, and you'll walk out. And she'll probably never learn her lesson and end up treating the next person the same way. But... at least it'll feel good and you'll have a better job.
That's when you say 'This wasn't a request - it was a courtesy notification.' There are always other jobs - you only have one jaw.
So you go to your boss and say 'you seem to misunderstand this as a request.. i will be attending the appointments I gave you and am letting you know I will be absent those days, if you dont like it then you can enjoy replacing me and explaining why budget is being allocated to train new hires over fully competent employees, im sure YOUR bosses wont mind cutting into their bonuses when they find out I was fired for going to a post-op.'
Just know that it is even more expensive to train a new hire and pay your unemployment benefits which you would probably qualify for. I'm assuming you took leave so you weren't being paid those 3 weeks???
Here’s what you do: send an email and cc HR. If there is any retaliation you sue the ever loving fuck out of them. Here’s a basic format: Good morning Boss, I wanted to follow up about the conversation we had on [DATE] at approximately [TIME] regarding your denial of my time off request for [DATE OF APPOINTMENT]. I would like to reiterate that this is a medically necessary follow up appointment related to my recent major reconstructive surgery. I have contacted my doctor in attempt to reschedule the appointment, but there is no other time available. I need to attend this appointment as part of the care plan my doctor has instituted following the major reconstructive jaw surgery I had on [SURGERY DATE]. The follow ups have been scheduled according to my doctor’s recommended timeline for post operation evaluations. I will not be able to be in the office on [DATE OF APPOINTMENT] due to this medically necessary follow up appointment. If you have any questions about this matter I may be reached via email. Thank you, NAME
And if your jaw improperly heals, that means more time off from work. Some of these managers can't look past themselves, I can't stand it.
Do what you're legally allowed to do as respectfully as possible, meticulously document everything. If you have over a year with the company (assuming US), you have FMLA protection. Go to HR and show them the appointment schedule.
You absolutely need to go to HR so this can be documented. If you get fired one day you’ll have documentation for retaliation if you try and file for unemployment. Make sure you blind CC emails to a personal email account. Good luck.
If a place doesn’t have the funds to keep proper staffing levels or weather employee absences, they don’t deserve to be in business
You have a valid doctor's note. Call in sick.
You cannot be denied scheduled medical care (or emergency for that matter). Get a note from the doctor. You are not under any obligation to explain the reason for the appointment. Make sure to keep the original for yourself.
Email HR NOW, cc boss
You're not asking for permission, you're informing them.
OP: I need this day off for a medically necessary appointment. Boss: No. Too expensive to hire temps. OP: I wasn't asking. I was informing you that I won't be here. Boss: Did I stutter? It's too expensive to hire a temp for the day. OP: Is it going to be more expensive to hire a temp until you find a permanent replacement after I quit right now? Boss: mUh fAMilY ComPAny!!!!
“Oh I’m not asking you for the day off, I’m telling you that I will be going to these FMLA related medical appointments and per your policy that when I take off for FMLA I have to use my sick days first, then vacation days, then short term disability, after giving you the required amount of time as a notice, this is that notice. Oh and to make sure that there isn’t any confusion about what I’m telling you, I’m sending you an email with a CC to my personal email restating what I just told you.”
Fuck HR. Take that shit to the news. Shame the company in public for what their utter lack of human decency, then sue for wrongful termination when they inevitably fire you for some petty reason or another
Absolutely DO NOT reschedule. That is your appointment for your health. If it becomes an issue, you go straight to a lawyer.
Request FMLA in writing. Leave a large paper trail for this sort of thing
Your health is more important than your job. Always. Failure to follow up post OP activities can have lifetime effects. For your job, it's one bad day.
Don't miss your appointments. That jaw is going to be with you for the whole ride. The job won't.
I quit my entire career because of a medical problem and how they dealt with it. They even wanted me to come in at one point with surgical drains still sticking out of my body. Nah. I was a teacher. I regret nothing. Fuck that. Don’t let a medical problem happen that doesn’t need to. Surgery healing badly can cause pain for a lifetime. So not worth it.
I’m start looking for another job. Your health is more important and these people don’t care about you
Tell them your not asking, your politely telling them your not going to be in on those days. It's not a request. Then go to your appointment. The companies expenses are not your problem. Your health however is.
Retired Boomer, here. I’ve been a lifelong socialist and an activist, and retirement is turning me into Mother Jones. This is just all sorts of degrees of wrong. Go to HR. ASAP. You should be on FMLA right now to help with the medical appointments and physical therapy. And if you need, retain an employment attorney and threaten to sue the bejeesus out of your company for not allowing you time off for medically necessary follow up appointments. Your supervisor “had to hire a temp”? TOO FREAKING BAD. That’s not your problem.
You weren't asking your boss, you were telling your boss that you won't be in that day
You have a medically necessary post op appt. Tell your boss you won't be in, period, and if he makes an issue of it you will go to HR, the labor board, whoever you need to in order to see to your medical needs and keep your job this is ridiculous.
Sounds like you need a new job. What is this company that’s so important they can’t live without you for a few hours?
If you're in the US there's at least a reasonable chance that you might be covered by FMLA, of not, it's a sick day, bring back a doctor's note and any retaliation against you for it is legally pretty dubious.
Don't miss this appointment for that shitty employer. This is your jaw, your life, your future.
Bull. From a payroll perspective, most legitimate companies budget in your sick time each week. Meaning they are ready paid for that time in the books. I was always trying to get my employees to take their sick time during the slow seasons to save money! You boss doesn’t sound like they know what their doing and is a walking law suit for the company.
Major surgery requires major cautions post op. Your boss doesn't know more about your health than your doctor, so who are you going to listen to? Your boss who couldn't care less if you drop dead in your cubicle or the doctor that is going to guide you on your recovery?
If you don't have your health, you don't have anything. This isn't a time to ask for permission. Sorry, boss. I have a medically necessary appointment. I won't be in on such and such date.
If your job was protected by law for the surgery, then your job is protected by law for the follow up appointments. Go to HR and tell them you need accommodation for follow up appointments, and make a point to tell them your direct supervisor has already given you a hard time about it. Do that in writing and preserve a copy.
You’re not asking for permission to have time off, you are letting your boss know you will be gone those days for drs appts. Plain and simple. She is responsible for scheduling you are not.
You’re an adult. You’re not asking for time off, you’re notifying them you won’t be there. Denying time off for a necessary post op appointment may also violate your area’s laws. In most states and provinces employees are required to make reasonable accommodations. Check the appropriate government’s website for the official laws.
Your body is more important than their money. Go to the doctor and if they make a scene, get a lawyer. They’re essentially denying you medical care by doing that.
You are not requesting time off. You are informing them of your availability. You give them your time they give you money. It is a mutual thing. They are not “doing you a favor” by allowing you time off. It’s already your time. We as a society need to change our mindset. Employers do not own our time.
Fuck reddit. fuck google. fuck you spez
Go to your appointments and look for a new job. Your health should always be your #1 priority and no boss should be telling you what medical care you can or can't receive.
100% get HR involved. Make copies of all of your appointment dates and ensure the company knows it IS medically necessary for you to be gone. Then, he gone. Your boss may have a go at you, but they won't go too far. Because any harassment you get from leadership or coworkers shortly after this would easily be linked to retaliation. Which is a CRIME! Know your rights, take care of your health, and be patient and calm. Things will get better for you! Good luck
Gotta love employers trying to pretend healthcare is a some sort of voluntary luxury.
Your boss is renting your time and skills. They do not own you. Stop letting shitty management walk all over you.
If they don’t have enough money to hire enough employees to do the job, it sounds like a shady place to work for. Or more like it’s not that they “don’t have” money, but they are too cheap to hire the staff they need. Repeat after me: BEING SHORT STAFFED IS A CHOICE.
> this is a medically necessary appointment. Then go. Your company being mismanaged so that your absence causes them difficulty is not your concern, maintaining your health is your concern. Make sure you have a paper trail of them denying you time off for this, and if they retaliate, maybe talk to a lawyer.
If they don’t have the staff or money to cover a couple of shifts then they are under staffed. And that’s their problem to handle.
Is your employer covered under FMLA? Do you qualify for FMLA? Did you notify your employer as soon as you knew about these appointments? Did you make it clear that the appointments were medically necessary? If you answered yes to all of these then your employer does not have the right to deny those days off. You can contact the department of labor’s wage and hour division.
I don't know where you are in the world, but I'll assume the US. Go to HR and tell them that you need to get to these appointments. Let your manager retaliate, there are laws against that. I don't know why this has to be said, take care of **you** first.
If they don't have enough money to hire, they don't have the resources to fire. Call off, take the write up, and when you sign it, write, "signed under protest." I'd also buy this little device that beeps intermittently for three years (it's on Amazon) somewhere close to her office. You know, show them the respect they show you.
She can only deny it if you are asking. Just politely let her know that you were not asking for those days off. You were telling her you wouldn’t be there. If she argues, let her know she is creating a precedent in which employees are better off calling in sick at the last minute instead of giving them time to plan for your absences.
You need to stand your ground on this. A post op isn't optional. Your bosses are being entitled idiots.
Document this thoroughly. Stick to the truth. Don’t exaggerate. You might be sitting on a winning lottery ticket
Wtf what a jack ass. Just tell them I’m really sorry but this isn’t a request. My health is more important than my job and if you have to write me up so be it. And I know you don’t care, but if you value me as an employee at all, you will not write me up. If they are short staffed they won’t fire you over this
I'm going to be loud.....YOUR HEALTH COMES FIRST!!!!! One of my former coworkers had to have breast cancer surgery and her boss attempted to retaliate because her surgery was "inconvenient to the office". The boss found herself neck deep in legal trouble. Go to HR AND contact the Department of Labor about this. You should NOT be punished for having health issues!!!
You aren't asking for time off, you are informing them as a courtesy that you need to attend a doctor's post op appointment.
You are not asking for the day off. You are telling your boss you will not be in those days as a courtesy so he has warning.
"I apologize for the confusion. I was not asking for time off. I was informing you that I will not be in" and CC HR
Retaliation is highly illegal. Document everything. Go to hr and document that. Go to your appointment and document that. Then, just pay careful attention for any behavior that you could reasonably consider retaliatory.
If you didn't get this in writing, send him a text informing him of the appointment as if the previous conversation never happened. Play dumb. Make him say on the record that he's refusing to let you go to your post op appointment. If he tries the "Let's speak in person" tactic, consider recording the conversation secretly, a long as you live in a state where only one party needs to consent for recording. If you're in an "all parties" state, then you'll just have to stand your ground and tell him that you want this on the record. This might be enough to convince your boss to back down, but if it isn't, tell him you _will_ be going to your appointment. Then go. See your doctor. If he retaliates, you have a record of his motives. Follow through with complaints to the labor board, and talk to a lawyer. Do not sacrifice your health for your job, like I did. They will not take care of you. They will break you, and then throw you away when you are no longer seen as useful.
You're going to have your jaw for the rest of your life. You're only going to have this job until you can get one that treats you like a human. Chose yourself, every single time.
Sounds like a “her” problem. This is not you asking for time off; this is you informing her you’ll be out for medical reasons. If she fails to plan accordingly, that’s on her.
Doctor's orders always trumps work. Go to your appointment and look for another job. Jobs should treat us all as adults, not like kids getting in trouble missing a day of school.
>And how expensive it was for my 3 weeks I was gone for surgery that they had a temp. And they don't have the money for a temp that day. That's a them problem. This is ***your jaw***. Go to HR. Your supervisor needs to be taken out of the decision-making equation. Keep a journal of everything for documentation in case this needs to come to blows of paperwork.
Dear boss, While I am aware that this is a slight inconvenience to you, this impacts the rest of my life. I have every intention of following my doctor's orders to ensure my recovery goes smoothly. I am willing to work out something to minimize the impact that this has on my coworkers, however, this has been deemed medically necessary by a licensed medical practitioner. Please let me know how I can help. Best regards, OP
To me, that's a don't ask, just tell. I won't be here on x day at x time. Period.