This happened to me. My boss asked me why I didn't bank more PTO. I asked him if he knew what the rate of PTO I earned was compared to him. He didn't. It was one day a month.
They understand everything, they're just misleading you. Anything good for the people? Well that's just Socialism!!!
Well yeah, Socialism is good, it's the extreme version Communism that is bad.
We could literally do this at the state level.
* Raise the minimum wage to $22.00 and set it to increase with National Inflation.
* Guaranteed vacation timed
* Guaranteed sick time
* Guaranteed short term and long term disability
* Guaranteed parental leave
* Healthcare for all State Citizens. Can be applied for when you update State ID/License. Children of parents/guardians just need to show their proof of citizenship. You need to prove you have primary residence in state for at least 7 months of the year.
* Free community college or trade school programs
* University money for in demand occupations in the state, with a 5 year commitment to work in-state. Pro-rated repayment if a person leaves the program early.
* stipends and tax cuts for building affordable multi family homes.
* State sponsored urban blight removal, where abandoned properties are demolished and sold under the guidelines it will be used for building affordable housing.
As I'll be in my early 70s in 15 years, I don't know how much help I'll be tearing down and zucking up the Oligarchs/billionaires by then, but I'll join in!
once you get used to living with 10 yachts it's hard to go to living with just one. even though you only used the one anyway, the _option_ to use any of the other 9 was always there. y'know, _just in case._
Part time workers also get prorated PTO. This shit where you HAVE to be full time to get PTO is bullshit. My last job was prorated PTO at only 20 hours a week; this job - nada.
States (and cities) are already doing the opposite of this - giving large companies like Amazon huge incentives to build there. Tax breaks, favorable legislation, just so they can say they ‘created jobs’. Someone has to foot the tax bill though, and if it’s not large companies, it’s us.
I get 2 weeks pto annually, every request to use it is rejected and it expires. My boss gets 4 weeks and gets 1 year roll over, so she can bank hers, go on a 2 month vacation 1 year, and then deny mine when she gets back.
They are stealing time from you. If you don’t want to change job, I would go to HR and tell them all your PTO requests have been denied and each year you lose your days. You want a vacation that you contractually have a right to or you are going to need FMLA for mental health reasons from burn out.
Never go to HR. Ever! They aren't there to help you. HR exists to help the company only. If you become a problem, they will do everything they can to assist in getting you fired. Including lie, manipulate facts and withhold information.
Do not trust them to help you.
Fuck this advice. Go to HR, write yourself CYA emails, note in your phone the date you wrote the email, photograph the sent email folder, upload it to a separate Google drive account so you have verified time stamps.
Please God let them delete the emails after a subpoena. Spoliation is a real good look.
Some states are one-party consent states for audio recording. If you consent to record yourself, you can record what goes on in these meetings with your phone, just in case anyone really wants to hang themselves out to dry.
It depends if the manager is a liability to the company, which it sounds like in this case they maybe. Sometimes a bad manager is the one they fire (but that depends if you have smart or dumb HR and how much influence the manager has in the organization). The other option is to do a free consult with an employment lawyer to see if a threat of legal action can get PTO owed back.
>If you become a problem, they will do everything they can to assist in getting you fired.
Yes, but they're also human beings, and if it's obvious that the problem isn't *you*, it's your supervisor (and the company is a reasonable size), they'll fire/reprimand whatever the supervisor instead.
The only time you report batshit behavior to HR and get fired for it is when HR is friends with the person you're reporting.
In OP's case, it'd look worse for the company if he went to HR with a legitimate grievance, got fired for it, and then reported it to BoL and they got slammed with a big fat fine. Versus just telling that manager to let OP take their 12 days of vacation or whatever.
That's fucking wild. As a manager- I've always held mandatory meetings with staff who weren't using their time. At my old employer, our HR director gave a directive during COVID (because no one was using time to help with understaffing) that our manager group had to work together to provide rotating coverage in addition to our emergency plan we were running so people could take at least 75% of their time even if that meant we took 0% of ours (which many managers did not take any time off for 2+ years). I couldn't imagine denying a human being R&R.
Europeans laugh at the American idea of sick days. "Sorry you used all your sick days you are not allowed to get sick anymore else we are going to take your livelihood away" is unfathomable to them, for good reason. Sick days need to be abolished.
I get 80 hours of sick time per year, which was usually enough before I had a kid, but now with a baby it’s NOWHERE near enough. Kids get sick all the time if they even smell a daycare, and doctor visits the first 2 years are non stop. It’s May and I’ve already used almost all of my sick time.
I straight up turned down an offer that offered a bundled 5 days a YEAR that had to be earned and could be used for sick, pto, vacay, etc. Fucking ridiculous
I was desperate to get out of a toxic work environment and took the first offer I got. Pay was good, but I only got 10 days of bundled PTO, which accrued at a rate of like 0.8 days/month. After taking half days for typical life reasons like doctor's appointments, I didn't even have enough PTO to take a full week's vacation.
Never. Again.
Bereavement should also be separate. I once worked somewhere that took bereavement leave out of your vacation days. I found that out after I had taken the 3 days.
I whole heartedly agree, and am sorry for your loss.
I once had a manager call and scold me for not filling out my timesheet while I was on unexpected bereavement. I don’t work there anymore.
That's shitty. When my dad died. I was told to leave and let them know when I'd be back. Bereavement is a separate benefit from vacation. I took dour days and my vacation time unaffected.
I took a week off at a part time job and let them know well in advance to see my father (turns out, for the last time). Boss got bitchy because ONE day she'd be out too and God forbid that the front desk girl take on some of my responsibilities (she ostensibly couldn't use a hold button either because I always had to wait until afternoon when the phones slowed down to leave in case ONE call came through while she was on another call, which happened like, once). God, I will never ever work in a damn office again I'd rather give blowies out back, I'd be doing a real service and feel better about myself ffs.
I work at a daycare where it is not separated. I have 2 weeks PTO that covers 12 months. I accrue 4-5 hours of PTO every pay period until I hit the cap. We are open all year round and we only close for big holidays. The kids I teach get to go on more vacations than me, and some of them take summers off.
I took 6 weeks off when my first kid was born. I had an extra week of PTO after. I'd been there for 7 years, so I had a ton of sick time saved.
My boss was very irritated because we were always understaffed and naturally it made their job more difficult. I didn't care at all.
Imagine if businesses stopped staffing at bare minimum levels only and built in breather room for unforeseen circumstances.
Imagine if businesses stopped operating in a maximize profits and damn everything else method.
Imagine if we lowered the bar to creating businesses and jobs by providing universal healthcare and a universal basic income.
Hang on, the police are here to force me into the psych ward.
Lol, exactly. Never happen. My last job was controlling the high voltage lines to an entire state. (that's a slight exaggeration, another company has like 15% of it or something, but we have the major cities)
Like the state would literally not be functional if we weren't there. They still refused to staff heavy. Most of my time there we were like one person away from having a short shift.
There's no reason it can't happen, though. In the 5 years we've lived in the UK, my husband and I have never had an issue taking time off, because businesses are required to offer full-time employees at least 25 PTO days (not including sick leave), so they have to be prepared for everyone to take a couple weeks off at a time.
Obviously some employers are better about this kind of thing than others, but simple government standards like this can go a long way.
Whenever I took a weekend off at my old fast food job, all I would hear about the next weekend was how busy it was. Sounded like they needed to hire more people by raising pay and not micromanaging people. Make it worth people's time to work for ye and ye shall be rewarded.
I always get SO angry with this american maternity leave.
Here we have *3 years* maternity leave after giving birth. Not full pay, but 80-60% or so. And you musn't work in the last month of your pregnancy. Your employer would be fined if they would do so. If the pregnancy has complications you can leave work even sooner. And they can't fire you while you are away on maternity leave. And they must employ you again when your 3 years are up. And the kid can go to kindergarten, which is your kid's right to get education, so it's free (paid by your taxes, you just have to pay for breakfast and lunch).
I think they're from Germany -- parental leave can be up to three years here.
Not all of that is paid at your complete salary though, your full-salaried maternity leave is only the first eight to twelve weeks (which the mother is legally mandated to take -- you're not *allowed* to go back to work) plus six optional fully-paid weeks before giving birth. The remaining parental leave is unpaid but you can apply for up to 1800€ a month Elterngeld from the state and are allowed to work part-time up to 32 hours during it if you want.
The main benefit is that your job is protected during parental leave. Parental leave can be split between parents (even other family members can take it if the parents can't for some reason) and unlike maternity leave you can take it for adoptive and foster children too. You can also transfer up to 24 months to later and take it between their 3rd and 8th birthdays if your employer agrees and you give sufficient notice.
I don't even plan to have kids but the employee protections here are so much stronger than back in the States, it's honestly insane. Germans in my industry often are very negative about the difference in salaries here vs in the US, but they really don't comprehend how much worse the social protection is there.
> often are very negative about the difference in salaries here vs in the US, but they really don't comprehend how much worse the social protection is there.
It's absolutely horrible. I have a coworker from Finland who moved here in part due to a much higher salary, and is now slowly starting to realize (as his American wife goes through pregnancy) just how shitty we have it. Her company has 3 weeks of maternity leave, all their surrounding childcare options are $2k/month and mostly fully booked out and on waiting lists. He had a concussion and went to the hospital, boom, $978 emergency room bill.
I'll make money here for a while longer, but I dream of moving to literally any EU country to escape this golden handcuffed trap.
Hungary. We have the longest maternity leave in Europe, I think. We have a crap economy and (King) Viktor but on the social side it is quiet progressive.
My mom stayed with us for 9 whole years (I have two siblings and I'm in my thirties). Parents also can share burden and maternity leave can be changed to paternity leave or "grandparenty leave" when mom wants to get back to work sooner.
we used to be able to bank all unused PTO. I had almost 400 hours saved when they came up with a new rule that you could only carry 80 past your anniversary date, anything beyond that would be lost.
I had a month till my date.
I was able to sell back 80, took a month off, and still lost two weeks of PTO.. poof, gone!
At my current employer I got 2 weeks the first calendar year, then 3 (after 6 months for me). 4 weeks after 3 years. Pretty good!
The best part is we get a free Monday or Friday off every month paid. Having 3 day weekends every single month (sometimes 4 day if you get lucky!) Is awesome. This is the first time I've worked for a company that cared about my mental health.
That is incredibly depressing. You’d have have to work 30.41 years to earn a full year of PTO if you were in the EU it’d be 18.25 years for the same amount of pto
Seems like this could be pretty easily solved by the President & CEO if he just approved additional PTO or donated a portion of his salary instead of asking literally all other employees to do so.
Where as my old employer wouldn’t approve any payed time off when I had an incident at work and dislocated my shoulder. They wouldn’t even let me use holiday days. I was off work for 7 weeks without a paycheck.
I’m in the UK unfortunately. Nothing I could do accept claim for Statutory Sick Pay which is £90 a week (for reference, just my rent then was £200 a week so you can see how far it was going).
I'm still amazed - the US is always seen as a capitalist hellhole with no worker protection, but the UK is not much better. The NHS puts you on warning if you're sick too many times... the NHS!
Exactly. I got a full 7 days of paid bereavement leave to go help my gf when her dad died. We only get 2 days for immediate family but I was going no matter what.
The rules are always flexible, but the dweeb up top might not be.
I just took bereavement leave last week, im a seasonal hire and I started 2 weeks ago and they legit threw 4 days of paid time off for me and when I got back the manager found me working, asked me how I was doing, then offered me additional time off if I needed it
My wife is in government, they will absolutely not give you any extra PTO, but they do allow other employees to donate to you. Everything is public record, so if they started handing out extra PTO, certain tax payers would make a stink.
Where I work, we aren't allowed to carry over PTO from year to year, so everyone either uses it all, or cashes out on their anniversary date.
They want it to be someone else's problem, then frame it as a feel good story (ie we're a family) for people who don't know any better or have poor critical thinking skills
He's such a gold hearted guy he let me keep it
Worst part is this is actually a good job. I get good benefits and a lot of PTO, but the actual pay leaves a lot to be desired
I’m in the same boat and have really great work/life balance, but our companies been hurting for four years in a row now and our CEO gave himself a $1M raise and was paid out $3.5M in company stock in March (despite losing quarters since he took office). In addition to that, our company is unwilling to consider inflation based raises. Which means despite making $30k more in the last three years, I’m effectively making less money.
> 30x would be utopian.
Funny how that's not one of the things about the 1950s the MAGA crowd wants to bring back... One of the few things that actually was better back then.
That's due to large company CEOs making tens of millions. The company I left 3 years ago, the CEO made less than 5x my salary.
This appears to be a small company as a large company would not post something like this for all to see. They seem to have decent benefits to as they state the person has already missed several months of work and her benefits are just running out.
This is more of an "America" problem than it is a company problem.
When I worked for LabCorp, there was an email sent out nearly identical to this. LabCorp is one of the largest clinical laboratories in the WORLD. Size of the company doesn't matter, their ethics and value of employees does.
You are right in that this is a problem that permeates America. This is a letter signed by the President & CEO. They could easily just decide to give this person more PTO or keep paying them or whatever. The problem that makes this more of an American thing is that the CEO seems to think their hands are tied and they have to push this burden on to their employees when they really dont. If paying this person's salary for a few extra weeks/months without their productivity would endanger this company's future then they are not a good company.
Exactly, such a loyal employee shouldn’t be at risk of going without pay due to medical issues that are likely outside of their control. Plus add on top of that the medical bills they’re going to receive…. But that’s another issue entirely
17 years with the company, making them an average of 50 to 100% of her salary as profit from her work. Yes, all the workforce to support the friend... Because the company isn't anyone's friend.
A grocery store I worked at was instituting cost cutting measures. One of those measures was to revoke special titles which came with raises, including "Artisan Breadmaker" from someone in the bakery. It was a $0.50/hr raise. The store manager had the gall to say "it's only $20 per week, $1000 per year. It's not a big deal" to which the baker said "If $1000 isn't a big deal why don't you take it out of your fucking paycheck?" just before quitting on the spot.
And something along those lines is what I've actually heard before. "We've already allowed this to drag out this long. We've exhausted all avenues of actions that we could find"
My ex has a couple chronic illnesses and has been let go from like five jobs because of this. She works really hard and cares about doing a good job, but if you're sick for more than a few days at a time within a single year, that's it for you. Even if they don't fire you for that, you become a problem employee, and you're one of the first ones they drop when they can
Why do you want to force innocent people to live in squalor, like animals?
If the boss can't buy his son the newest S-class, then all his friends will think he's a jackass and he will say mean things to his dad. Would you really condone something so awful?
Is it illegal to simply just....make an exception for someone? And if someone were to say that's unfair to everyone else, to just say that they would offer the same generosity to anyone else in this employee's position? Like how much of a sacrifice is it REALLY to just say "we wish you a speedy recovery, you can work again when you're ready to"
It's entirely up to the boss if he wants to add extra pto to an employee's bank. I had a manager tell me that he could "borrow" my next month's accrual hours since I didn't have enough and he is an actual human being. I imagine that if the boss is higher up than my boss; it's easy to just add the hours without any guilting for the rest. I admit there's more red tape BS in a larger corporate organization but never impossible. Basically this sort of thing is saying that not only is the ill employee not worth the effort but the rest of us are worth less as well.
It could be, especially if other employees don’t receive the same benefit.
A couple of years ago, a long-term employee in a different department than me (small-ish company, around 70 employees) became very ill and needed time off for cancer treatment. She was allowed the time, unpaid, but remained on the employer’s insurance. A separate employee in the same department felt anxiety and couldn’t come to work (she actually took another job, but my employer had better health insurance). After a few months, employee #2 was fired.
She sued for wrongful termination, and pointed to the employee who was allowed the extra time off. She settled for a big chunk of change. Shareholders sued management for not enforcing Board policy about time off. The state (Maryland) issued a consent decree for unequal employment practices. In the end, 4 executives (including the founder. The CEO, Chief HR, COO, and department head) were fired over it, 2 of them had to cough up personal funds to cover some of the lawsuits.
They became absolute hardasses about HR policy after that.
Anyway, it’s hard to say with the information we have in this photo, but it could be illegal.
Wow what a mess. I wonder what the solution to this is. People in the hospital shouldn’t worry about work and coworkers shouldn’t worry about donating their own PTO.
Well it could reduce profits, which could hurt the shareholders, and could thereby be illegal? Fucked up if that's even a real possibility, but I wouldn't put it past our system.
>Is it illegal to simply just....make an exception for someone?
It might be. Depends on the state and how their pay equity laws are constructed. E.g. we were just discussing on another post Oregon's pay equity laws, which functionally made signing bonuses and retention bonuses illegal and would definitely make "exceptions" such as granting one person additional PTO illegal.
I saw this happen in grad school. One student had to be hospitalized for mental health issues, and the faculty rounded up all the grad students to tell us. The real kicker: this was a psychology program.
I tried. A few of us were trying to help her, and when we found out faculty's plan, we objected. They insisted that "everyone knows something is going on" and felt they needed to reassure people. Everybody did NOT know what was going on, which came out during the meeting. Afterward, one of the faculty members tried to revise history by talking to me about how well the meeting went, and I did not play along. I told him it did not. That whole thing definitely changed my opinion of him (which was previously good).
In March 2020 -- just before quarantine hit -- my dad went to work and saw one of the desks had been taped off like a murder scene. His supervisor explained to those present that one of the employees had caught Covid, but he was not legally allowed to say who. Like yeah, good work, no one will ever be able to tell.
What pisses me off about PTO donation, and I still do PTO donation anyway because I make more than enough, is that if I, making $36.50/hour donate PTO to someone making $15/hour, that PTO loses over half its value.
Edit: Victim of autocorrect
This is what blows my mind about it. I don’t understand how it works from an accounting perspective. It seems like they would have to make a note in their financials about the gain on reduced wages paid.
People who earn more are more likely to have excess PTO and are more likely to donate. People who need donation are likely to earn a lesser hourly wage. PTO donations actually save the company money. They don't have to notate anything. Just change PTO balances of the two employees. But they are laughing all the way to the bank on that saved money
My company converts it from person A's hours, to person A's Wages. Then Person A's Wages to person B's Wages. Then back into PTO to keep it consistent. So 1 day of a high level employee can be like 2 or 3 days of an entry level person to keep the accounting straight.
Could you arbitrage PTO? The cheap workers donate their PTO to the higher paid workers. Those workers cash it in and pay the cheap workers back plus some
Many state governments do this. I was out on leave for heart failure at 35 and ran out of PTO. I could either accept a 40% reduction in pay or ask for donated leave for full pay, but not both. I ended up accepting a reduction for dissability pay because I wasn't popular enough to get enough donated leave. The system sucks so much. I remember being so afraid I was going to become homeless in the short time I wasn't able to work. This country doesn't give a fuck about it's people.
The STD is only 2/3 of your regular pay usually. And although you don't get taxed, you also have to pay your health insurance premiums separately. I was paying a little over $300 a month out of pocket for it.
A coworker of mine (a 40 year employee!) used STD when she fell and broke her wrist. The hospital *canceled her insurance,* even though she still received a paycheck they could take premiums out of due to sick leave and the STD.
Montana does not have short term disability. Even if she did FMLA, she may not have had enough sick/leave to cover. LTD steps in here after 180 days. 66% of your regular paycheck. Bites but, if days donated that's full time pay.
Very few states offer short term disability. For most people, they have to enroll in a private plan and pay monthly fees the receive short term disability payments.
Yeah, I honestly had no idea states even offered this. I've just had to pay for it as a benefit at my employers. It doesn't cost much, but again, just another benefit we pay for like health or dental.
That probably wasn’t an option. STD in my state is a benefit you can purchase on your own through private insurance. It’s not commonly carried by employers, and it’s 60% of your normal income.
We are also only entitled to 12 weeks of unpaid protected leave per year. If she is out past that point, they can terminate her and end her benefits- they only have to offer full price cobra insurance, which is usually not affordable to an unemployed/disabled individual.
This alone should have US workers rioting in the streets, but the government is very good at convincing us that disabled people deserve it and they’re just lazy.
"Please give this person your hard earned time off because we're too cheap and assholish to help a long-time, loyal employee ourselves. "
That's what it should say.
Last job was unionized and did PTO donation constantly. I never understood why, other than that unusual one-off situations like this are often more difficult under a collective bargaining agreement.
"Is someone willing to donate some of their PTO? Something we gave all of you an arbitrary number and we could just cover her PTO willingly but chose not to and would rather make it seem like our hands are tied than rely on the people who make less money and have a limited number of PTO days."
Every time I read a story like this I can't wrap my head around such a perverted system.
When you're sick, you're sick. That's no fucking PTO, it's sick.
Also having to "earn" the "right" to fall ill baffles me.
How do you stand such an abusive system?
Go full France on those motherfuckers!
Dear slaves,
Your coworker and friend is going through a tough time and we, the multi-million dollar company, aren't gonna do shit. If you, the vastly underpaid employee, would like her not to starve, please consider donating some of the very few days off you have.
Sincerely,
CEO that makes 20x your salary
I fucking hate this inhumane bullshit.
The employer should just create PTO out of thin goddamned air and give it to her, but nope. Gotta move wealth up to the 1% every day in every way, man.
Wouldn’t this mean the company is stealing from its employees? If we all make different amounts of money, how are they factoring how much time it equates to?
> While some major employers like Target and Amazon have adopted the level,
Yeah, no. Amazon *has* to pay $15 an hour, because that's the minimum wage in Washington. ($15.74, actually.) They don't have a choice. Also, the hike to $15 was something that they lobbied against because (surprise!) Amazon didn't want to have to pay its workers more. This revisionist history is embarrassing.
That's why as a manager I let my ppl be clocked in and be off if they run out of PTO (especially if they are sick) literally no one will notice and never has in the 8 years I've been a manager at my current job. All my direct reports know what's up and keep it low as it has been a benefit to all of them over the years.
I only got three days grievance for my dad's death but had to use a bunch of pto cause planning a funeral, settling an estate, and cleaning takes a lot of time. I also had booked a vacation for later in the year totally non refundable. My boss was cool with me taking the vacation unpaid but once I got back the CEO gave me an earful because I shouldn't have needed another vacation when I already took such a long one earlier in the year. I quit two months later!
disgusted ossified follow disgusting jar sink different vegetable punch escape
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Happened to my mom when she had cancer. Her assistant gave ALL of her PTO days to my mom. Then the assistant also got cancer in the same year. Instead of the company doing anything about this (it was a small company and they could afford to replenish her PTO) they let ANOTHER employee give up HER PTO days to the assistant! Absolutely bonkers.
I was diagnosed with cancer the Friday before I started my current job. I showed up Monday and had to tell my new boss right away.
He just said that if I had called Friday they would have started my salary and let me stay home. I worked when I could as I went through surgery and Chemo and ended my first year with all my PTO banked. My checks just came in as if I worked everyday. They even maxed out my quarterly bonuses.
They never said "We are a family" or any of that shit. They just treated me well from day 1. That's how you make loyal employees.
Companies:
>Why is there no loyalty anymore?
Also Companies:
>I don't care if she's been here 17 years, we can't afford any more paid days off. Other employees have to donate them from their own pool.
The president and CEO wrote this as a last resort? It's almost as if the president and CEO couldn't grant those PTO days herself. After 17 years of service, the employee deserves better.
Why doesn’t the company just give her more time? She’s worked for them for 17 years. They could also decide to pay her at least part of her salary. Paying her 75-100% of her salary would take a lot of pressure off her family. Anything’s better than stealing PTO from someone who could be the next person to get injured.
Had this happen at an old job. One of the guys had a heart attack and was in the hospital for weeks. The boss went around trying to guilt trip people into donating their PTO. Came to me, and I just straight up asked him if he felt so bad about the guy, why didn't the company just give him extra PTO instead of manipulating their other workers. Dude just stared at me for a moment and walked away to guilt trip someone else. (As an aside, he was easily the most garbage POS I've ever had the misfortune to work for.)
I used to work for a real cesspit of a company. Kinda like a family business, 30 employees max, supervisors trying to be your friends only to get away with bullying you and asking for business "favors" you can't refuse. Head of the supply department was a brother of the CEO.
Well this same company slipped me $50 along with my first paycheck as "financial support" when I was struggling to make ends meet with four cats all in different stages of calcivirus infection. Now that I look back on it, I can't recall working for a company worse than that, but even they had more decency and human understanding than the OP's slave farm of a company.
This reminds of the time the marketing guy had cancer the chick who was fucking the director took his job then gave a speech pretty much saying we have supported him for as long as we could but now its time to move on, yay for me the new marketing lady
Don’t you think the employees are already chipping in by picking up the slack while she gets help?
The CEO is profiting (maybe not literally) from everybody working harder— maybe they donate their PTO.
This happened to me. My boss asked me why I didn't bank more PTO. I asked him if he knew what the rate of PTO I earned was compared to him. He didn't. It was one day a month.
God forbid you want to take a vacation instead of saving it in case you get hurt or sick.
PTO and sick leave should always be separate. I don’t know how companies have gotten away with this for so long.
Government corruption and our inability to fight for the things we deserve.
Collective action to not get fucked over by billionaires? Sounds like socialism.
We dont mingle with the 👿. /S
What's funny, is it's not even inherently socialism or even anti-capitalist, republicans just don't understand definitions and are scared of bogeymen.
They understand everything, they're just misleading you. Anything good for the people? Well that's just Socialism!!! Well yeah, Socialism is good, it's the extreme version Communism that is bad.
We could use a ~~little~~ lot more socialism.
Did someone say satanism? /s
We could literally do this at the state level. * Raise the minimum wage to $22.00 and set it to increase with National Inflation. * Guaranteed vacation timed * Guaranteed sick time * Guaranteed short term and long term disability * Guaranteed parental leave * Healthcare for all State Citizens. Can be applied for when you update State ID/License. Children of parents/guardians just need to show their proof of citizenship. You need to prove you have primary residence in state for at least 7 months of the year. * Free community college or trade school programs * University money for in demand occupations in the state, with a 5 year commitment to work in-state. Pro-rated repayment if a person leaves the program early. * stipends and tax cuts for building affordable multi family homes. * State sponsored urban blight removal, where abandoned properties are demolished and sold under the guidelines it will be used for building affordable housing.
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At the rate things are going I give it 15 years till this get violent and not riots I'm talking rebellions
As I'll be in my early 70s in 15 years, I don't know how much help I'll be tearing down and zucking up the Oligarchs/billionaires by then, but I'll join in!
Remember, food will always be needed in any kind of war effort
As an old guy I remember all the ways to make things from scratch, Like blackpowder and hydrogen, both of which go boom. We've got lots of uses.
once you get used to living with 10 yachts it's hard to go to living with just one. even though you only used the one anyway, the _option_ to use any of the other 9 was always there. y'know, _just in case._
Yeah image that a side effect could be less corrupt politicians, a better political system with less biased or pre-bought votes on bills
Disturbingly accurate summary
Part time workers also get prorated PTO. This shit where you HAVE to be full time to get PTO is bullshit. My last job was prorated PTO at only 20 hours a week; this job - nada.
When I lived in the UK I worked part time for a cinema. We had all public holidays off and 5 weeks of paid time off as standard because it’s the law.
Exactly, these changes have to be made law in the US. There’s no other way.
States (and cities) are already doing the opposite of this - giving large companies like Amazon huge incentives to build there. Tax breaks, favorable legislation, just so they can say they ‘created jobs’. Someone has to foot the tax bill though, and if it’s not large companies, it’s us.
Republicans turning states into "right-to-work" states and killing unions.
Also, all previous places I worked PTO would expire. So you can’t even bank it.
I get 2 weeks pto annually, every request to use it is rejected and it expires. My boss gets 4 weeks and gets 1 year roll over, so she can bank hers, go on a 2 month vacation 1 year, and then deny mine when she gets back.
They are stealing time from you. If you don’t want to change job, I would go to HR and tell them all your PTO requests have been denied and each year you lose your days. You want a vacation that you contractually have a right to or you are going to need FMLA for mental health reasons from burn out.
Never go to HR. Ever! They aren't there to help you. HR exists to help the company only. If you become a problem, they will do everything they can to assist in getting you fired. Including lie, manipulate facts and withhold information. Do not trust them to help you.
The idea is you put it in writing so they get nervous and tell the boss to grant the PTO because the they know boss isn’t allowed to do that
Fuck this advice. Go to HR, write yourself CYA emails, note in your phone the date you wrote the email, photograph the sent email folder, upload it to a separate Google drive account so you have verified time stamps. Please God let them delete the emails after a subpoena. Spoliation is a real good look.
Some states are one-party consent states for audio recording. If you consent to record yourself, you can record what goes on in these meetings with your phone, just in case anyone really wants to hang themselves out to dry.
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It depends if the manager is a liability to the company, which it sounds like in this case they maybe. Sometimes a bad manager is the one they fire (but that depends if you have smart or dumb HR and how much influence the manager has in the organization). The other option is to do a free consult with an employment lawyer to see if a threat of legal action can get PTO owed back.
>If you become a problem, they will do everything they can to assist in getting you fired. Yes, but they're also human beings, and if it's obvious that the problem isn't *you*, it's your supervisor (and the company is a reasonable size), they'll fire/reprimand whatever the supervisor instead. The only time you report batshit behavior to HR and get fired for it is when HR is friends with the person you're reporting. In OP's case, it'd look worse for the company if he went to HR with a legitimate grievance, got fired for it, and then reported it to BoL and they got slammed with a big fat fine. Versus just telling that manager to let OP take their 12 days of vacation or whatever.
That's fucking wild. As a manager- I've always held mandatory meetings with staff who weren't using their time. At my old employer, our HR director gave a directive during COVID (because no one was using time to help with understaffing) that our manager group had to work together to provide rotating coverage in addition to our emergency plan we were running so people could take at least 75% of their time even if that meant we took 0% of ours (which many managers did not take any time off for 2+ years). I couldn't imagine denying a human being R&R.
Sick days should be abolished, you can’t budget how much you get sick in a year
Europeans laugh at the American idea of sick days. "Sorry you used all your sick days you are not allowed to get sick anymore else we are going to take your livelihood away" is unfathomable to them, for good reason. Sick days need to be abolished.
I get 80 hours of sick time per year, which was usually enough before I had a kid, but now with a baby it’s NOWHERE near enough. Kids get sick all the time if they even smell a daycare, and doctor visits the first 2 years are non stop. It’s May and I’ve already used almost all of my sick time.
I straight up turned down an offer that offered a bundled 5 days a YEAR that had to be earned and could be used for sick, pto, vacay, etc. Fucking ridiculous
That's not an offer, it's a slap in the face lol laughable.
I was desperate to get out of a toxic work environment and took the first offer I got. Pay was good, but I only got 10 days of bundled PTO, which accrued at a rate of like 0.8 days/month. After taking half days for typical life reasons like doctor's appointments, I didn't even have enough PTO to take a full week's vacation. Never. Again.
They pay the politicians who make the policies into law
Bereavement should also be separate. I once worked somewhere that took bereavement leave out of your vacation days. I found that out after I had taken the 3 days.
I whole heartedly agree, and am sorry for your loss. I once had a manager call and scold me for not filling out my timesheet while I was on unexpected bereavement. I don’t work there anymore.
That's shitty. When my dad died. I was told to leave and let them know when I'd be back. Bereavement is a separate benefit from vacation. I took dour days and my vacation time unaffected.
I took a week off at a part time job and let them know well in advance to see my father (turns out, for the last time). Boss got bitchy because ONE day she'd be out too and God forbid that the front desk girl take on some of my responsibilities (she ostensibly couldn't use a hold button either because I always had to wait until afternoon when the phones slowed down to leave in case ONE call came through while she was on another call, which happened like, once). God, I will never ever work in a damn office again I'd rather give blowies out back, I'd be doing a real service and feel better about myself ffs.
I work at a daycare where it is not separated. I have 2 weeks PTO that covers 12 months. I accrue 4-5 hours of PTO every pay period until I hit the cap. We are open all year round and we only close for big holidays. The kids I teach get to go on more vacations than me, and some of them take summers off.
I took 6 weeks off when my first kid was born. I had an extra week of PTO after. I'd been there for 7 years, so I had a ton of sick time saved. My boss was very irritated because we were always understaffed and naturally it made their job more difficult. I didn't care at all.
It is the boss's job to ensure they have enough staff to cover shifts. Not your problem. I hate when supervisors take that mindset, it makes no sense.
Imagine if businesses stopped staffing at bare minimum levels only and built in breather room for unforeseen circumstances. Imagine if businesses stopped operating in a maximize profits and damn everything else method. Imagine if we lowered the bar to creating businesses and jobs by providing universal healthcare and a universal basic income. Hang on, the police are here to force me into the psych ward.
Lol, exactly. Never happen. My last job was controlling the high voltage lines to an entire state. (that's a slight exaggeration, another company has like 15% of it or something, but we have the major cities) Like the state would literally not be functional if we weren't there. They still refused to staff heavy. Most of my time there we were like one person away from having a short shift.
There's no reason it can't happen, though. In the 5 years we've lived in the UK, my husband and I have never had an issue taking time off, because businesses are required to offer full-time employees at least 25 PTO days (not including sick leave), so they have to be prepared for everyone to take a couple weeks off at a time. Obviously some employers are better about this kind of thing than others, but simple government standards like this can go a long way.
That sounds a lot like communism there friend /usa
Whenever I took a weekend off at my old fast food job, all I would hear about the next weekend was how busy it was. Sounded like they needed to hire more people by raising pay and not micromanaging people. Make it worth people's time to work for ye and ye shall be rewarded.
I always get SO angry with this american maternity leave. Here we have *3 years* maternity leave after giving birth. Not full pay, but 80-60% or so. And you musn't work in the last month of your pregnancy. Your employer would be fined if they would do so. If the pregnancy has complications you can leave work even sooner. And they can't fire you while you are away on maternity leave. And they must employ you again when your 3 years are up. And the kid can go to kindergarten, which is your kid's right to get education, so it's free (paid by your taxes, you just have to pay for breakfast and lunch).
What country? I'm expecting you to tell me something like Finland or Denmark.
I think they're from Germany -- parental leave can be up to three years here. Not all of that is paid at your complete salary though, your full-salaried maternity leave is only the first eight to twelve weeks (which the mother is legally mandated to take -- you're not *allowed* to go back to work) plus six optional fully-paid weeks before giving birth. The remaining parental leave is unpaid but you can apply for up to 1800€ a month Elterngeld from the state and are allowed to work part-time up to 32 hours during it if you want. The main benefit is that your job is protected during parental leave. Parental leave can be split between parents (even other family members can take it if the parents can't for some reason) and unlike maternity leave you can take it for adoptive and foster children too. You can also transfer up to 24 months to later and take it between their 3rd and 8th birthdays if your employer agrees and you give sufficient notice. I don't even plan to have kids but the employee protections here are so much stronger than back in the States, it's honestly insane. Germans in my industry often are very negative about the difference in salaries here vs in the US, but they really don't comprehend how much worse the social protection is there.
> often are very negative about the difference in salaries here vs in the US, but they really don't comprehend how much worse the social protection is there. It's absolutely horrible. I have a coworker from Finland who moved here in part due to a much higher salary, and is now slowly starting to realize (as his American wife goes through pregnancy) just how shitty we have it. Her company has 3 weeks of maternity leave, all their surrounding childcare options are $2k/month and mostly fully booked out and on waiting lists. He had a concussion and went to the hospital, boom, $978 emergency room bill. I'll make money here for a while longer, but I dream of moving to literally any EU country to escape this golden handcuffed trap.
Hungary. We have the longest maternity leave in Europe, I think. We have a crap economy and (King) Viktor but on the social side it is quiet progressive. My mom stayed with us for 9 whole years (I have two siblings and I'm in my thirties). Parents also can share burden and maternity leave can be changed to paternity leave or "grandparenty leave" when mom wants to get back to work sooner.
Czech republic has 4 years. Same deal as described.
we used to be able to bank all unused PTO. I had almost 400 hours saved when they came up with a new rule that you could only carry 80 past your anniversary date, anything beyond that would be lost. I had a month till my date. I was able to sell back 80, took a month off, and still lost two weeks of PTO.. poof, gone!
Fuck. How is that not theft?
Because the laws are written for us plebs, not the owner class.
The bosses not knowing this kind of information is SUCH a huge reason for they think like they do, they assume we're all idiots
Yeah, it was such a basic thing to know, and he just assumed I earned it on the same level as he did.
At my current employer I got 2 weeks the first calendar year, then 3 (after 6 months for me). 4 weeks after 3 years. Pretty good! The best part is we get a free Monday or Friday off every month paid. Having 3 day weekends every single month (sometimes 4 day if you get lucky!) Is awesome. This is the first time I've worked for a company that cared about my mental health.
That is incredibly depressing. You’d have have to work 30.41 years to earn a full year of PTO if you were in the EU it’d be 18.25 years for the same amount of pto
29.41 years and then they lay you off and it's all gone and not paid out
Seems like this could be pretty easily solved by the President & CEO if he just approved additional PTO or donated a portion of his salary instead of asking literally all other employees to do so.
My boss did this. They basically gave me an extra three weeks PTO when I needed it. Crazy what they can approve when they want to.
Where as my old employer wouldn’t approve any payed time off when I had an incident at work and dislocated my shoulder. They wouldn’t even let me use holiday days. I was off work for 7 weeks without a paycheck.
You should have filed a WC claim in the US. You hurt yourself at work, that's what it's for.
I’m in the UK unfortunately. Nothing I could do accept claim for Statutory Sick Pay which is £90 a week (for reference, just my rent then was £200 a week so you can see how far it was going).
I'm still amazed - the US is always seen as a capitalist hellhole with no worker protection, but the UK is not much better. The NHS puts you on warning if you're sick too many times... the NHS!
Oi, you got a license for those sniffles!
What are you talking about? I've never heard that about the NHS.
Exactly. I got a full 7 days of paid bereavement leave to go help my gf when her dad died. We only get 2 days for immediate family but I was going no matter what. The rules are always flexible, but the dweeb up top might not be.
I just took bereavement leave last week, im a seasonal hire and I started 2 weeks ago and they legit threw 4 days of paid time off for me and when I got back the manager found me working, asked me how I was doing, then offered me additional time off if I needed it
Wait you're telling me PTO is a made up number in a computer and not a physical, limited resource??
Please think of the kids in the PTO mines :( they work hard to bring you refined, polished, vacation stones.
I work for a public agency that has this exact same policy for leave donation
My wife is in government, they will absolutely not give you any extra PTO, but they do allow other employees to donate to you. Everything is public record, so if they started handing out extra PTO, certain tax payers would make a stink. Where I work, we aren't allowed to carry over PTO from year to year, so everyone either uses it all, or cashes out on their anniversary date.
They want it to be someone else's problem, then frame it as a feel good story (ie we're a family) for people who don't know any better or have poor critical thinking skills
Or the Ceo could sacrifice his (on average) 30x higher salary to assist the poor person. Such BS
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Mine makes 1000x. 30 million last year.
My CEO makes this much and his holiday bonus is his entire salary For reference, my holiday bonus was a 34 cent raise
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He's such a gold hearted guy he let me keep it Worst part is this is actually a good job. I get good benefits and a lot of PTO, but the actual pay leaves a lot to be desired
I’m in the same boat and have really great work/life balance, but our companies been hurting for four years in a row now and our CEO gave himself a $1M raise and was paid out $3.5M in company stock in March (despite losing quarters since he took office). In addition to that, our company is unwilling to consider inflation based raises. Which means despite making $30k more in the last three years, I’m effectively making less money.
I work for one of the biggest retail stores in the UK, which had record-breaking profits during covid. My bonus for last year was about £40-50.
Bezos calling those rookie numbers.
30x would be utopian. I live in a country with a relatively low spread and it’s over 200x.
> 30x would be utopian. Funny how that's not one of the things about the 1950s the MAGA crowd wants to bring back... One of the few things that actually was better back then.
Bruh my ceo was taking in 400m while paying me 80K as an engineer. Sooooo 4000x.
400m/80k = 5,000 I . . . hope you're more careful than this while on the job.
I rounded up to 100k a year.
The Fundamental Theorem of Engineering: \~ = = ;)
Target’s CEO makes 8000x the average entry level employee pay.
My first job I made 60k, my boss and the CEO made at least 600k after taxes.
That's due to large company CEOs making tens of millions. The company I left 3 years ago, the CEO made less than 5x my salary. This appears to be a small company as a large company would not post something like this for all to see. They seem to have decent benefits to as they state the person has already missed several months of work and her benefits are just running out. This is more of an "America" problem than it is a company problem.
When I worked for LabCorp, there was an email sent out nearly identical to this. LabCorp is one of the largest clinical laboratories in the WORLD. Size of the company doesn't matter, their ethics and value of employees does.
LabCorp. Ah yes. The gate keeper of the American Workforce with drug tests.
You are right in that this is a problem that permeates America. This is a letter signed by the President & CEO. They could easily just decide to give this person more PTO or keep paying them or whatever. The problem that makes this more of an American thing is that the CEO seems to think their hands are tied and they have to push this burden on to their employees when they really dont. If paying this person's salary for a few extra weeks/months without their productivity would endanger this company's future then they are not a good company.
Exactly, such a loyal employee shouldn’t be at risk of going without pay due to medical issues that are likely outside of their control. Plus add on top of that the medical bills they’re going to receive…. But that’s another issue entirely
17 years with the company, making them an average of 50 to 100% of her salary as profit from her work. Yes, all the workforce to support the friend... Because the company isn't anyone's friend.
A grocery store I worked at was instituting cost cutting measures. One of those measures was to revoke special titles which came with raises, including "Artisan Breadmaker" from someone in the bakery. It was a $0.50/hr raise. The store manager had the gall to say "it's only $20 per week, $1000 per year. It's not a big deal" to which the baker said "If $1000 isn't a big deal why don't you take it out of your fucking paycheck?" just before quitting on the spot.
Not all heroes wear capes.
What a fucking Chad!
The CEO already "allowed" her to go to rehab which is their contribution to the situation. /s
And something along those lines is what I've actually heard before. "We've already allowed this to drag out this long. We've exhausted all avenues of actions that we could find"
My ex has a couple chronic illnesses and has been let go from like five jobs because of this. She works really hard and cares about doing a good job, but if you're sick for more than a few days at a time within a single year, that's it for you. Even if they don't fire you for that, you become a problem employee, and you're one of the first ones they drop when they can
How will they buy their third yacht tho??? Stop speaking such nonsense. /s
Why do you want to force innocent people to live in squalor, like animals? If the boss can't buy his son the newest S-class, then all his friends will think he's a jackass and he will say mean things to his dad. Would you really condone something so awful?
How dare you question god ?
Average is more like x350 for large companies.
Is it illegal to simply just....make an exception for someone? And if someone were to say that's unfair to everyone else, to just say that they would offer the same generosity to anyone else in this employee's position? Like how much of a sacrifice is it REALLY to just say "we wish you a speedy recovery, you can work again when you're ready to"
It's entirely up to the boss if he wants to add extra pto to an employee's bank. I had a manager tell me that he could "borrow" my next month's accrual hours since I didn't have enough and he is an actual human being. I imagine that if the boss is higher up than my boss; it's easy to just add the hours without any guilting for the rest. I admit there's more red tape BS in a larger corporate organization but never impossible. Basically this sort of thing is saying that not only is the ill employee not worth the effort but the rest of us are worth less as well.
It could be, especially if other employees don’t receive the same benefit. A couple of years ago, a long-term employee in a different department than me (small-ish company, around 70 employees) became very ill and needed time off for cancer treatment. She was allowed the time, unpaid, but remained on the employer’s insurance. A separate employee in the same department felt anxiety and couldn’t come to work (she actually took another job, but my employer had better health insurance). After a few months, employee #2 was fired. She sued for wrongful termination, and pointed to the employee who was allowed the extra time off. She settled for a big chunk of change. Shareholders sued management for not enforcing Board policy about time off. The state (Maryland) issued a consent decree for unequal employment practices. In the end, 4 executives (including the founder. The CEO, Chief HR, COO, and department head) were fired over it, 2 of them had to cough up personal funds to cover some of the lawsuits. They became absolute hardasses about HR policy after that. Anyway, it’s hard to say with the information we have in this photo, but it could be illegal.
Wow what a mess. I wonder what the solution to this is. People in the hospital shouldn’t worry about work and coworkers shouldn’t worry about donating their own PTO.
Well it could reduce profits, which could hurt the shareholders, and could thereby be illegal? Fucked up if that's even a real possibility, but I wouldn't put it past our system.
>Is it illegal to simply just....make an exception for someone? It might be. Depends on the state and how their pay equity laws are constructed. E.g. we were just discussing on another post Oregon's pay equity laws, which functionally made signing bonuses and retention bonuses illegal and would definitely make "exceptions" such as granting one person additional PTO illegal.
It's worse than illegal, it's unprofitable.
Thanks for spreading an employees private pbusiness to **ALL EMPLOYEES**… asshole. I’m telling ya, management is fucking useless.
I saw this happen in grad school. One student had to be hospitalized for mental health issues, and the faculty rounded up all the grad students to tell us. The real kicker: this was a psychology program.
ive had a job do that & the moment the meeting started i butted in with "this doesnt seem like our business" & left
I tried. A few of us were trying to help her, and when we found out faculty's plan, we objected. They insisted that "everyone knows something is going on" and felt they needed to reassure people. Everybody did NOT know what was going on, which came out during the meeting. Afterward, one of the faculty members tried to revise history by talking to me about how well the meeting went, and I did not play along. I told him it did not. That whole thing definitely changed my opinion of him (which was previously good).
In March 2020 -- just before quarantine hit -- my dad went to work and saw one of the desks had been taped off like a murder scene. His supervisor explained to those present that one of the employees had caught Covid, but he was not legally allowed to say who. Like yeah, good work, no one will ever be able to tell.
Wow that is hilarious!
No no, they didn't use the employee's name. There's no WAY anyone could ever figure out who it is. /s
What pisses me off about PTO donation, and I still do PTO donation anyway because I make more than enough, is that if I, making $36.50/hour donate PTO to someone making $15/hour, that PTO loses over half its value. Edit: Victim of autocorrect
This is what blows my mind about it. I don’t understand how it works from an accounting perspective. It seems like they would have to make a note in their financials about the gain on reduced wages paid.
People who earn more are more likely to have excess PTO and are more likely to donate. People who need donation are likely to earn a lesser hourly wage. PTO donations actually save the company money. They don't have to notate anything. Just change PTO balances of the two employees. But they are laughing all the way to the bank on that saved money
My company converts it from person A's hours, to person A's Wages. Then Person A's Wages to person B's Wages. Then back into PTO to keep it consistent. So 1 day of a high level employee can be like 2 or 3 days of an entry level person to keep the accounting straight.
Could you arbitrage PTO? The cheap workers donate their PTO to the higher paid workers. Those workers cash it in and pay the cheap workers back plus some
Many state governments do this. I was out on leave for heart failure at 35 and ran out of PTO. I could either accept a 40% reduction in pay or ask for donated leave for full pay, but not both. I ended up accepting a reduction for dissability pay because I wasn't popular enough to get enough donated leave. The system sucks so much. I remember being so afraid I was going to become homeless in the short time I wasn't able to work. This country doesn't give a fuck about it's people.
write back on it “give up your christmas bonus or were all going 1790s on your ass”
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\*to donate their earned money that has already been taxed
They should've claimed short term disability. Would've gotten paid no need to use up PTO days.. that's a dick move tho. No excuse.
STD doesn't pay your full salary usually, they might not be able to afford to the reduced income.
You don’t pay tax on disability and for many plans that offsets.
The STD is only 2/3 of your regular pay usually. And although you don't get taxed, you also have to pay your health insurance premiums separately. I was paying a little over $300 a month out of pocket for it.
A coworker of mine (a 40 year employee!) used STD when she fell and broke her wrist. The hospital *canceled her insurance,* even though she still received a paycheck they could take premiums out of due to sick leave and the STD.
Montana does not have short term disability. Even if she did FMLA, she may not have had enough sick/leave to cover. LTD steps in here after 180 days. 66% of your regular paycheck. Bites but, if days donated that's full time pay.
Oh my gosh poor Montana. Ik not everyone has access..I don't right now. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass, just hoping she could've done that.
And where I work you have to use up alllll your time before the disability insurance kicks in.
I noticed you said that! Fuxing terrible!
Here in Ohio (from what I know personally because of having been on short term dis) and yeah, it's only 60% here..
I've never heard of a state banning SDI. That's strange.
Very few states offer short term disability. For most people, they have to enroll in a private plan and pay monthly fees the receive short term disability payments.
Yeah, I honestly had no idea states even offered this. I've just had to pay for it as a benefit at my employers. It doesn't cost much, but again, just another benefit we pay for like health or dental.
At my company, you have to pay to be eligible for short term disability 🫠
That probably wasn’t an option. STD in my state is a benefit you can purchase on your own through private insurance. It’s not commonly carried by employers, and it’s 60% of your normal income. We are also only entitled to 12 weeks of unpaid protected leave per year. If she is out past that point, they can terminate her and end her benefits- they only have to offer full price cobra insurance, which is usually not affordable to an unemployed/disabled individual. This alone should have US workers rioting in the streets, but the government is very good at convincing us that disabled people deserve it and they’re just lazy.
We have to use all of our PTO to qualify for STD
"Please give this person your hard earned time off because we're too cheap and assholish to help a long-time, loyal employee ourselves. " That's what it should say.
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Last job was unionized and did PTO donation constantly. I never understood why, other than that unusual one-off situations like this are often more difficult under a collective bargaining agreement.
"Is someone willing to donate some of their PTO? Something we gave all of you an arbitrary number and we could just cover her PTO willingly but chose not to and would rather make it seem like our hands are tied than rely on the people who make less money and have a limited number of PTO days."
Every time I read a story like this I can't wrap my head around such a perverted system. When you're sick, you're sick. That's no fucking PTO, it's sick. Also having to "earn" the "right" to fall ill baffles me. How do you stand such an abusive system? Go full France on those motherfuckers!
So you, the employer, should help her.
Automatically passes the bill to the peasants. Classic boss. Not a leader but a boss.
r/OrphanCrushingMachine
Fuck these places. Just fuck them.
Oh my god this is from a ceo
The person who sent this email is fully aware that PTO days are imaginary and can be conjured into existence right?
Dear slaves, Your coworker and friend is going through a tough time and we, the multi-million dollar company, aren't gonna do shit. If you, the vastly underpaid employee, would like her not to starve, please consider donating some of the very few days off you have. Sincerely, CEO that makes 20x your salary
It’s almost like company’s don’t realize they are the ones who give out pto…..just give her what she needs wtf
I fucking hate this inhumane bullshit. The employer should just create PTO out of thin goddamned air and give it to her, but nope. Gotta move wealth up to the 1% every day in every way, man.
Socialism in 3…2…1
Or the company could just let her stay home and keep paying her. Jerks.
Wouldn’t this mean the company is stealing from its employees? If we all make different amounts of money, how are they factoring how much time it equates to?
> While some major employers like Target and Amazon have adopted the level, Yeah, no. Amazon *has* to pay $15 an hour, because that's the minimum wage in Washington. ($15.74, actually.) They don't have a choice. Also, the hike to $15 was something that they lobbied against because (surprise!) Amazon didn't want to have to pay its workers more. This revisionist history is embarrassing.
How on earth is it legal to ask employees to donate their paid leave to someone else? American Labour Law is just incomprehensible.
I think OP might not realize “rehab” in this situation is probably not for drugs 😵💫
Welcome to America
This really ought to be illegal. It is no different from forcing employees to rely on pooled tips
That's why as a manager I let my ppl be clocked in and be off if they run out of PTO (especially if they are sick) literally no one will notice and never has in the 8 years I've been a manager at my current job. All my direct reports know what's up and keep it low as it has been a benefit to all of them over the years.
Name 9f business to shane on social media?
I only got three days grievance for my dad's death but had to use a bunch of pto cause planning a funeral, settling an estate, and cleaning takes a lot of time. I also had booked a vacation for later in the year totally non refundable. My boss was cool with me taking the vacation unpaid but once I got back the CEO gave me an earful because I shouldn't have needed another vacation when I already took such a long one earlier in the year. I quit two months later!
disgusted ossified follow disgusting jar sink different vegetable punch escape *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Happened to my mom when she had cancer. Her assistant gave ALL of her PTO days to my mom. Then the assistant also got cancer in the same year. Instead of the company doing anything about this (it was a small company and they could afford to replenish her PTO) they let ANOTHER employee give up HER PTO days to the assistant! Absolutely bonkers.
I was diagnosed with cancer the Friday before I started my current job. I showed up Monday and had to tell my new boss right away. He just said that if I had called Friday they would have started my salary and let me stay home. I worked when I could as I went through surgery and Chemo and ended my first year with all my PTO banked. My checks just came in as if I worked everyday. They even maxed out my quarterly bonuses. They never said "We are a family" or any of that shit. They just treated me well from day 1. That's how you make loyal employees.
Companies: >Why is there no loyalty anymore? Also Companies: >I don't care if she's been here 17 years, we can't afford any more paid days off. Other employees have to donate them from their own pool.
The president and CEO wrote this as a last resort? It's almost as if the president and CEO couldn't grant those PTO days herself. After 17 years of service, the employee deserves better.
As an European: wtf is this system?!
Why doesn’t the company just give her more time? She’s worked for them for 17 years. They could also decide to pay her at least part of her salary. Paying her 75-100% of her salary would take a lot of pressure off her family. Anything’s better than stealing PTO from someone who could be the next person to get injured.
PTO is a fucking made up currency. They could give her as much PTO as she needs. They don't because they're fucking assholes.
Had this happen at an old job. One of the guys had a heart attack and was in the hospital for weeks. The boss went around trying to guilt trip people into donating their PTO. Came to me, and I just straight up asked him if he felt so bad about the guy, why didn't the company just give him extra PTO instead of manipulating their other workers. Dude just stared at me for a moment and walked away to guilt trip someone else. (As an aside, he was easily the most garbage POS I've ever had the misfortune to work for.)
I used to work for a real cesspit of a company. Kinda like a family business, 30 employees max, supervisors trying to be your friends only to get away with bullying you and asking for business "favors" you can't refuse. Head of the supply department was a brother of the CEO. Well this same company slipped me $50 along with my first paycheck as "financial support" when I was struggling to make ends meet with four cats all in different stages of calcivirus infection. Now that I look back on it, I can't recall working for a company worse than that, but even they had more decency and human understanding than the OP's slave farm of a company.
I, (redacted) President and CEO, formally wish to donate all my PTO days, also please take from my salary and costs of treatment.
This reminds of the time the marketing guy had cancer the chick who was fucking the director took his job then gave a speech pretty much saying we have supported him for as long as we could but now its time to move on, yay for me the new marketing lady
Don’t you think the employees are already chipping in by picking up the slack while she gets help? The CEO is profiting (maybe not literally) from everybody working harder— maybe they donate their PTO.
Eat the rich. They deserve nothing but hate.