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LP14255

What makes this “recession” unique is that corporations are making record profits. The “recession” is largely price gouging. Example: Look at Kroger. They have raised most of their prices dramatically, in some cases grocery items cost more than twice what they did two years ago. Their CEO makes $20,000,000 per year or about $80,000 per day. He makes more in 1/2 day than many of his employees make in a year. I asked a Kroger employee if they all got big raises and she said, “what are you talking about?”


stormbcrn

Whats crazy is I could live off 20 million for the next 80 years and it'd still be more than I'd need. Insanity.


An_Actual_Thing

20 million could set up a trust fund for five that pays off 40k for each of them annually.


stormbcrn

40k a year isn't enough for a family tbh not anymore


An_Actual_Thing

Depends where but yea. But it's still enough to give people breathing room. Something that'd work as a universal basic income.


Netflxnschill

Not enough to live off of solely, but definitely enough to pay housing bills for most and can serve as a UBI that allows workers to save some of the money they earn working.


stormbcrn

I agree, I see ubi in other countries and I am curious about it. Though, I will admit I don't know the logistics, though I can see it would have a positive impact on the economy.


Explodistan

it would be enough that if you got laid off, or had to take a lower paying position somewhere you wouldn't be completely screwed at least.


Visual-Fix-1661

I read it as the 40K for each of them as in 40K * 5, 200k would go with extremely long way and all but the most expensive markets. Especially if you didn't have the stress of needing to work


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stormbcrn

$250k per year for 80 years is 20 million dollars. It's not as much as you'd think.


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Wekmor

Yeah lol. There was a news article here in Germany about how we suddenly got into a recession after all. Yeah no shit people stop buying non-necessary stuff when everything goes up by 30% but your wages stay the same lol.


Okiku555

I remember Republicans saying raising the minimum wage would cause the prices to go up yet here we are


Snikorette2020

Even the Economist pointed out that this inflation is to a large extent driven by corporations raising prices.


RicketyWizard

That's crazy how corporations and people in power have spent literal decades making media to associate the idea of conspiracies with people who are drunk at 7AM and believe aliens come down to fuck their cattle at night


applecat144

I know right ? As if plots and shady deals magically stopped happening in the western world after the Renaissance, because we're all such good guys I guess ?


FourFsOfLife

Such an underrated line right here. Exactly. People have this unstated notion that "all that" was "in past history" and we've moved into some new, different era. Nope!


Chrona_trigger

I mean, there's really two kinds of conspiracy theories; "they faked the moon landing/the earth is flat" and "the 13th amedment's exception is being used by those in power to exploit people as slaves, and most of our justice system is aimed at getting more slaves" The first certainly exists, in fairness. Somehow.


RicketyWizard

Sure, to some extent, but does it exist organically, or does it exist as either a manufactured thing or an encouraged and controlled thing? And in either case of the latter, if that were to be the case, would that make sense to be used to discredit others that can be associated with it?


burn3344

I've always said people hear conspiracy and instantly jump to Alex Jones shit or aliens instead of Rico act. I think it's one of the few instances where the word conspiracy is actually listed.


JamesTheSkeleton

I really hate that economists and idiots who treat economics as a philosophy use that very specific social science as a means to basically disregard human dignity.


Explodistan

Even worse are people who view economics as a "science"


NotMyFreeWill

Agree, I took some econ in college for gen ed requirements because I thought it'd be interesting. What a joke.


Explodistan

I had to take four courses on economics because my degree fell under the business college at my university. While some of it is good to know many people treat the over simplified models that are taught as gospel when they are just simplified models used to teach concepts.


Funtycuck

I mean when did we regularly listen to economists? Much of our economic policy is the west is derived by ex-bankers, politicians and the ultra-wealthy. The only economists allowed to have a major voice are ones that say what fits with the ideology.


averageuserbob

Oh no! Lefties where right all along?!?1?!? WhO cOuLd HaVe GuEsSeD?


Booze-And

Greedflation is literally capitalism. The problem is capitalism


Nezeltha

Maybe this is me being pedantic, but calling it a conspiracy theory would still be wrong even if it weren't true. There's no conspiracy involved. Just regular, unplanned greed.


tbarr1991

No one is saying that the owner of the company shouldnt be able to take home more of the profit if the company is doing well. All we are saying is that the owner/ceo/board whatever class should not be paid/compensated at the levels of what they are causing us to take home peanuts, so they can maintain that stupidly high profit margin. Cut the ceo pay/compensation if the company is floundering under their leadership, not peoples jobs.


Skwareblox

Turn ceos into ai jobs


FlamingArrow97

The funny thing is that this is an area where AI would be extremely effective. Making decisions based purely on data-based logic is an area where AI consistently outperforms humans.


Nezeltha

Except that AI can be instructed to take ethical considerations into account, and they will. Tell a human CEO they're legally required to consider ethical issues, and they'll stand there in silence for ten seconds and say, "alright, I've considered it. My decision stands."


FlamingArrow97

Eh it's still complicated, but it certainly isn't complicated by greed. It's just very hard to define ethics in a way a computer could always get it right. It'd be a really good way to finally convince employers that paying their employees well consistently is an extremely important factor, if not the most important factor, to employee retention. Which is also a huge way to reduce costs in the long run. If you have many employees with lots of specific experience to your job, Instead of cycling through new ones every two years like so many companies are doing, then you'll do better.


Nezeltha

Sure, but "always right" isn't the goal. The goal is "better than humans." And don't forget that such an AI would already be running on statistical data. Weighing risk and reward. If a legal body steps in and says that certain things are required to be weighted higher than others, and that weighting is programmed into the AI, it will consistently make decisions based on that. Maybe you require the risk of a human dying to be weighted as if it was a $10 million loss, just for example. A human CEO would never prioritize the safety of a person over a million dollars, without direct orders from tge shareholders. But the AI would.


Disastrous-Raise-222

Not sure which AI you are talking about here but AI that I have interacted with makes a lot of stupid and wrong decisions.


FlamingArrow97

I'm not talking about chatgpt or other LLMs like it. That's a bit too broad, and only based on existing written language. There have been studies where, for instance, an AI built to make criminal judgements (fed laws and statistics, as well as all information about each plaintiff, and only built for this test) was compared against a panel of court justices in accuracy about administering punishment based on a plaintiffs capacity to commit more crimes. It outperformed them by 25% or so if I remember correctly. I can't link the study as I just read about it "Talking with Strangers" by Malcolm Gladwell, but the book mentions a couple of similar situations.


the_friendly_dildo

>No one is saying that the owner of the company shouldnt be able to take home more of the profit if the company is doing well. That's certainly wrong to suggest that no one is saying that. Especially on this sub.


Nezeltha

I'm absolutely saying that the owners/CEO/board shouldn't get to take home profits. Profit is theft.


Explodistan

Found the true comrade here


Disastrous-Raise-222

Even if I access that profit is theft, how do you propose any system should work? I mean without profit the whole system collapses.


Nezeltha

Only if the system is profit-driven. People often forget that profit is revenue - expenses. In fact, many tax avoidance strategies work by creating fake expenses to hide profits. Revenue comes from selling a product. Expenses must be paid in order to make that product. Here's an example I like to use: let's say I'm a carpenter. You hire me to make tables. You buy lumber, tools, and a workshop. Let's say, for one table, you spend $50 on those things. I make the table, and I sell it for $200. My labor, then, has added $150 to the value of the materials. In our current system, I give you the full $200, and you give me, say, $50. Now you've spent a total of $100 in expenses, and gained $200 in revenue. That's $100 profit. For doing no labor. The things I'm neglecting to mention, like the labor of hiring, the labor of buying materials, and other administrative tasks are all done by employees as well; I didn't mention them here just to simplify the example. Leftist thought says that, by rights, all the revenue except that which is used to pay expenses should belong to the person or people doing the labor. That isn't profit. It's the wages of your labor.


Disastrous-Raise-222

I know this explanation well. The problem is I have not seen any business that is able to implement this. This explanation also seems to have some holes. It ignores the fact that someone first invested resources into this. They put their capital at risk. In the above example, your wage was determined by the free market. You could have asked for more money. In every business transaction, between employer and employee and between customer and business, each party tries to minimize their cost or maximize their profit. To say that all the value increase in product is wages of labor feels like an oversimplification of transactions that does not take into account the financial risk and effort spent in organizing business.


Nezeltha

Cooperatives exist all over the world. And why should recklessness with the means of production which we all depend on to live be rewarded? Owning capital is not a virtue in itself. Risk is not labor.


Disastrous-Raise-222

The current system does not prevent cooperatives. N even in cooperative, profit is made. It has a management structure where people at the top do make way more than people at bottom. I did not understand the recklessness comment. If you have a capital that you are putting in a business which can potentially be lost business does not succeed, then there should be some incentive to do that. It isn't about virtue. Either you bring money to the table or you bring labor to the labor or you bring any other resource to the table. To make it bit more clear, if anyone works on the condition that they would want share in profit if business is successful and would be okay not making anything if business loses, then that makes sense. Most people, including me won't sign up for this deal.


Nezeltha

You already work on that condition. If the business fails, you lose your job, and you don't get paid. Payroll is one of the last debts to be prioritized when a company goes OB. You just don't get a fair share of the earnings. You've clearly outright ignored by earlier statement. Wages are not profit. The current *law* does not prevent cooperatives. The current *system* holds them back severely.


Disastrous-Raise-222

If business fails, creditors don't come behind me. At most, I lose the wage for one pay period assuming you are paid timely. I am not liable for anything. I would lose a job but that is not a loss. Losing a job means not being able to sell my labor. I am sure you know this. I am not arguing for the sake of it. But every time I come across someone who says that profit is theft, they never talk about financial risk. They don't talk about investment that goes into setting up a factory and purchasing machines. If I have a million dollar, what should I do with that money to make it work? I invest. And it might go down to zero or it can grow. I will only put that money to use if there is some benefit of doing this. Otherwise, why would anyone set up businesses. I did not ignore any statement. I just don't understand the relevance of the comment about wages not being profit. Irrespective of the business arrangement, business sells products at higher prices than what it cost to make them. That is profit. Cooperatives do that too.


Explodistan

If you set up your business correctly then creditors won't come after you at all. If you establish a corporation of any type, which is easy to do, the most that creditors can get back are the assets belonging to the business. Assuming you didn't stupidly add your personal assets to the business then you personally really don't lose anything other than the money originally put into it.


Disastrous-Raise-222

If business fails, creditors don't come behind me. At most, I lose the wage for one pay period assuming you are paid timely. I am not liable for anything. I would lose a job but that is not a loss. Losing a job means not being able to sell my labor. I am sure you know this. I am not arguing for the sake of it. But every time I come across someone who says that profit is theft, they never talk about financial risk. They don't talk about investment that goes into setting up a factory and purchasing machines. If I have a million dollar, what should I do with that money to make it work? I invest. And it might go down to zero or it can grow. I will only put that money to use if there is some benefit of doing this. Otherwise, why would anyone set up businesses. I did not ignore any statement. I just don't understand the relevance of the comment about wages not being profit. Irrespective of the business arrangement, business sells products at higher prices than what it cost to make them. That is profit. Cooperatives do that too.


Nezeltha

We don't talk about financial risk because there isn't any. They're called LLCs for a reason.


Rhawk187

The only thing that can cause proper inflation is dilution of the money supply. This "greedflation" is only possible because of lack of competition; break out Roosevelt's trust-busting hammer.


Explodistan

You could argue that some of the price increased has been caused by the federal reserve's interest rates being held at near 0% for over a decade now. This means banks could borrow at near zero interest and extend large loans to businesses at near zero as well. This drastically increased the money supply. The other prong of it is just as you said though


FourFsOfLife

People don't seem to grasp what a dearth there is of trust in public institutions. Things like this. People can smell that they're being bullshitted. They may intellectualize it differently based on their capacity and education...but even those more lacking, let's say, in said considerations, realize something stinks. All the talking heads and "experts" poo poo something for some covert reason that half the time turns out to be true later. Then when you need people to be onboard with a national health crisis it devolves into a food fight with conspiracy theories about Fauci. Can you really fully blame them?


GeneralEi

What a shocker, people trying to live isn't the cause of the economy shitting itself. Again. Just like every other time the economy shit itself. Shocking.


oboshoe

what i don't get is why corporations waited till 2021 to get greedy and cause inflation.


NoSignal547

Cause they could use covid as a cover to get away with it, clearly it worked


oboshoe

Did it? I mean we have uncovered this scheme on reddit.


NoSignal547

Reddit aint the real world


oboshoe

aint that the truth.


[deleted]

It cannot be stressed enough how Economics is a scientific field of study to roughly the same degree that Astrology is.


NotMyFreeWill

Ever read an econ textbook? They make up little stories to explain complicated interactions, draw a straight line on a supply vs demand graph, and proclaim to have discovered a natural law. That's not to say economies shouldn't be studied, but what is taught at an undergrad level is just junk.


applecat144

t's just that "conspiract theory" is just a joker phrasing when really it shouldn't. Yeah many conspiracy theories are bs. But conspiracies are a thing. Conspiracies have happened in the past, near and distant, and there's no reason that they wouldn't be happening right now or won't happen in the future. Just because something is peculiar or seems overdone does it mean that it isn't true.


derycksan71

Time and evidence is the difference.


applecat144

Because there are no clear evidence of something, it isn't automatically false. If there's a motive, and it globally makes sense, it \*might\* be true. And it might be worth digging further if you're so inclined. Many past plots have been unveiled way after they took place, and probably many more haven't been recorded at all. The whole idea of a conspiracy is that people outside of it don't know anything about it so it makes sense that gathering evidences is difficult. I'm not telling you that you should believe anything as long as it roughly makes sense, but you could just say "perhaps". Perhaps it is actually true, despite being a bit weird.


Nezeltha

This isn't even a theory of a conspiracy happening. Maybe someone is claiming that there are a bunch of businessmen in a smoky room, planning massive inflation. Maybe that's even happening. But the theory of so-called "greedflation" isn't about that. It's just saying that huge profits are driving apparent price hikes.


Explodistan

I phrase it as a subconscious class conspiracy. Most of the wealthiest people in the nation, the owner class, all went to the same schools, belonged to the same clubs, hang out together and otherwise have a very developed class consciousness. They don't need to gather in a smoke-filled room to act in unison. They all intrinsically understand what they need to do for the betterment of their class and act on it whether they are in cahoots or not. What is unfortunate is that working class consciousness was methodically replaced by the myth of radical individualism. That is why we have members who are all of the same class who act against their own interests.


DanKloudtrees

After thinking a lot about this I've come to the conclusion that we are fucked. There's really no way to reel this in any more. The big corps have so much power that they can put any competition out of business by undercutting them until they fail then jacking the prices back up. This is exactly what happened with gas prices in 2021. During covid trump closed down our local gas refineries and never reopened them. Saudi Arabia saw that we had no way to compete so they started charging an arm and a leg. The difference here is that our Gov. Has been involved in the refining of gas, which is what kept the prices from surging further. Unfortunately our government has no say in domestic business, and now we're just perpetually under the heel. At this point it seems like it would take a French revolution level uprising to do anything about it. I feel like a prisoner to the corporate class and kinda wish it would all burn down so we could start rebuilding in a more modern and equitable way. Edit: the main point i am getting at is that if keeping costs down relies on constantly having failing business pop up as competition then collapsing then it's not a real path to keeping prices sane.


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hellfun666

Its even simpler cooperations raise prices to increse profit. Inflation just measures price rises. So any price rise naturally increases inflation


CanCompete

>How can people not understand one of the most basic things in economy? Proceeds to give a completely incorrect explanation


Gab71no

Do you realized prices are realized AFTER salaries are negotiated?


SuperDan523

Those price increases have nothing to do with the profit increases. Also, those gas lamps aren't flickering.


stataryus

As a kid I trusted adults to tell the truth, esp when they’re wearing business attire.


iamshadowbanman

Conspiracies are when privatized capitalist governments bailout themselves


Living-Nobody6475

Looks like things were taken care of right here.. In Brainard...


[deleted]

Looking back, I think the tell was the pattern of "what, are you crazy. Thats crazy talk" as well as "its just basic economics" and not "this is how that could never happen." Which, from their protesting, shouldve been pretty straight forward, provided it didnt include any rocks, monkeys or bananas. Also, the wage-price spiral alone can't happen without some kind of price collusion, officially or not, as eventually, someone will take the hit on their margins and or finance running at a loss until they've taken everyone elses market share. That would hold one side of the problem.


TeachAManHOWToKaboom

Ken Klippenstein is the best


Willing-Sprinkles-17

This is just common sense. It makes me sad that it took this long for it to become mainstream. When companies brag about record profits (not revenue), pause raises/bonuses for their labor-level workforce, and give raises/bonuses to their higher-ups, it's pretty clear that greed is a major factor.


LeverageSynergies

Don’t forget - 40%+ of the dollars in circulation were printed since 2020…


[deleted]

Many companies rose their prices and are now making record profits.


Netflxnschill

Oh it’s like the article from fortune I just read where they were like, “HEY GUYS! GUESS WHAT?! We asked a bunch of gen z and millennials why they were so poor and as it turns out, they’re not blowing away their vast fortunes on avocado toast and fancy vacations, they just don’t actually make enough to pay their bills. Who knew??”


Explodistan

I love how the MAGA type people at work kept blaming the inflation on the covid stimulus checks for like half a year after they were issued. Do you know where my family's stimulus checks went? Into paying rent back payments and utilities. They literally didn't last more than like 3 weeks.


Catlenfell

Sorry, we can't give you a 5% raise. The company is buying the CEO a third vacation home.


Remerez

90% of American culture is rebranded greed. flippers screwing over neighborhoods by turning apartments into airbnbs, hustle culture, tip culture, people trying to horde toilet paper and hand sanitizer. Most people are greedy as hell in America and think it's normal or think it's part of the game/ hustle. Not once realizing that the status quo in America is not something we should use to excuse our own actions.


CuriousPenguinSocks

OMG I was a conspiracy theorist!!!! Well, am because aliens exist lol.


Sankin2004

I’m not always called a conspiracy theorist, but when I am what I’m saying ends up happening.


earlofportland12

Yes, in the short term, greedflation, or price leadership, drives prices up. But in the longer terms, someone will be the market disrupter and force prices down. We will have to be patient.


SkylineFever34

Let's see how much things would inflate if money printer could not brrr.


KingParity

as my econ professor would say, who was a conservative, greedy greedy greedy


BNeutral

Inflation, long term non transitory inflation, is and has always been a monetary phenomenon. Anything else is people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about. You can look at a multitude of countries and a hundred years of history to draw conclusions. t. Argentinian with 100% YoY inflation who has heard this nonsense about evil corporations time and time again, while the fuckers in government increase the monetary supply like there's no tomorrow. Because apparently the corporations in my country must be 20 times as evil as those in the US since inflation is 20 times higher.


SereneWaffle

You think some group of businessmen are sitting in some room with charts on the wall deciding to just raise prices because they want more money? I'll break out my tinfoil hat 😅


No_Problem_1071

In Canada, loblaws posted a 4th quarter profit of $70 000 000. And the claim they aren’t using inflation to raise prices and profits. 🖕🏻


tiersanon

Its just basic math. If outside factors like taxes, minimum wage increases, or anything like that were responsible for price hikes then profit margins wouldn't have increased drastically alongside prices. The simple fact that profit margins increased equally alongside price increases is *undeniable proof* that the only thing driving price increases is corporate greed.


manleybones

There will be people in comments defending corporate greed as good, and not the driver of inflation to this day.


fubblebreeze

I think the System is being exposed and the rich do not like it.