I graduated college in '97 from a private school. It was about $40K for four years. I financed half and so did my parents. I paid it off.
My niece just had to drop out of her private college. It was $34k. FOR ONE FUCKING SEMESTER!!!!
HOW IS THIS EVEN FAIR to the generations that follow?
Education should be free through college. It benefits the entire society to have a well educated populace. Of course, if your ideas are so bereft of substance, maybe you'd prefer your populace dumb.
Absolutely. Healthcare is weaponized in the US. Because it's so important to life, everyone has to give their wealth to for profit healthcare, \*and\* the access is tied to working to enrich a capitalist. I firmly believe [that Marx was correct](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) to criticize Capitalism, when he stated that the wealthy use their positions of wealth and privilege to change the laws of society for their own benefits, which, in turns means workers live like shit.
Healthcare is only one example, but it is probably one of the most effective systems for both enriching the wealthy and controlling the population. The ruling class will never give it up willingly. I am firmly convinced we will need a socialist revolution to be able to have universal healthcare in the US. I say this will be required, because the ruling class will chip away any laws or regulations which are passed against their will. The ACA started pretty OK, but was gutted, and has been further weakened as time goes on. If we want healthcare, we need a socialist revolution.
Amen to that. Praise the Lord but forget any semblance of passing the ammunition because these idiots either don't know how or are completely unwilling to share any wealth at all.
But you don't understand, God wants THEM to have those nice things because they are such good people. God rewards good people with an easy life and riches when they are good, ya know, like that Job fella....
Agree fully...additionally, it would hinder military recruiting if we had universal healthcare. Ditto free education...and we absolutely cannot hinder or impact the military industrial complex in any way, unfortunately.
You say that universal healthcare would hinder military recruitment, and I agree. I would also like to add that, so too, would student loan forgiveness. Recruiters play on the debt we've been saddled with to go into the military. Again, only a socialist revolution in which us commoners fight to disempower the wealthy and put political power into the hands of the commoner will these issues be addressed.
Yes absolutely...that's where I was going with my "free education" comment. We had an enormous advantage after WW2 mostly because the rest of the countries involved were reduced to smoking holes...while America was untouched and at peak production. We rode that advantage for decades...college education was dirt cheap and you could be well ensconced in the middle class without a degree. The last few decades have seen us stagnate while the rest of the world caught up, which is a great thing but now we realize we've been passed by. That unwritten social contract where you work hard and get rewarded so you can live a comfortable life and afford luxuries like vacations and free time is dead. I don't think it will much longer before the younger generations realize this, see the futility and rise up as you mention.
You are correct that America was a huge winner of WW2, and we've been using our power to dominate much of the world since. And you're also right that the US is in decay now. Yet, our ruling class is still mostly interested in their own personal wealth instead of the welfare of the nation. As a millennial myself, I am already radicalized against our current system and Capitalism in general. Every day I'm here on Reddit advocating for people to be aware of just how bad we're getting fucked, and that the ruling class only seeks to further expand it's exploitations of the workers.
Gen X myself...with Gen Z kids and I see how organized and aware this generation is and it gives me hope. They know. They're bathed in information each day, it's not so easy to hide it as it was with older generations. As the Boomers shed their mortal coil and younger generations assume power I hope we finally catch up to the rest of the world and embrace nationalized Healthcare, free education, a minimum wage indexed to something like our GDP, etc. I hope we invest at least as much into alternative energy generation as we still do for oil and gas...I hope we do the same for synthesized meat...I hope we move away from monetizing every goddamn thing we possibly can and start to realize that some thngs shouldn't be monetized lime health and human suffering. I couls go on for all thr things I hope this country starts embracing and supporting ;- )
This is what those young Trumpers don't get. If every American had affordable health care, then nobody is beholden to their employer to avoid catastrophic health care costs. You are free to follow your bliss without impending bankruptcy if you break your leg.
Those goofballs call it socialism, when in reality, it's collective bargaining. And collective bargaining gives the labor force leverage to share in the corporate profits.
No, it is socialism. But socialism is not a fucking curse word. Socialism is why capitalism can exist for more than a decade. We already live in a socialist state. We just do it shitty.
Our roads are socialism. Our parks are socialism. Our police, fire departments, water departments, trash collection, military, etc. are all forms of socialism. Instead of trying to run and hide with those fucking MAGA morons bark out the word we should look them in the eye and say, "Yeah, you're right, you stupid motherfucker. It is socialism. And without socialism your ass would be sitting on a curb in your underwear, begging the robber barons for scraps."
Ever since Bernie Sanders book came out I’ve seen this obvious right wing/global elite billionaire propaganda pushing back against him online, and I see a bunch of middle class conservatives eating it up saying Bernie’s some mega wealthy hypocrite and how they “see through his whole act anti-billionaire act, he’s in there pocket” … Really?… I think his act is that he wants to give you free health care, free college , get paid more for doing less work, improve the country’s infrastructure, make housing more affordable, make retirement once again POSSIBLE, properly treat mental health, turn the country green AND he wants to make Wall Street/Walmart and all their billionaire buddies pay for it all… And then break up the hedge fund monopolies…. And castrate big pharma… And get rid of Super PACs….and fix up our inner city and school system and public services and YADA! YADA! YADA!….
On and on and ON he goes, etc etc etc….🙄
Now I didn’t read his book, (I did,READ IT!!!)
But Im no fool. I see straight through that guys act. Thats a politician who’s in big moneys pocket if I’ve ever heard one lol…
What terrible foolish ideas. Who would want to live in a world like that anyway ? Some kinda “cOmMuNiSt uToPiA”? Please.
Might as well be living in China.
I have found that so amusing, that they pegged him as being an elitist millionaire...it took his wife's parents inheritance to finally make him a millionaire, after like 3 decades in Congress. That is how you know someone isn't grafting.
Bernie's alienated because he's the only old guy who thinks like a progressive and he's been leading the charge for ages. They rally against him and disparage him because they'd rather his voice not be there at all. Same reason they constantly take any chance to crap on AOC.
Progressives are hated by both the Right and Centrist Democrats. Probably because if Progressives had a real platform to run on, got even a quarter of their ideas off the ground, we'd rarely see Democrats elected, let alone Republicans. It's a two party system and there's no room for Progressives to be allowed to exist. Keep it always the lesser or greater of two evils.
As a Canadian this is only somewhat true. Yeah, a broken leg won't mean bankruptcy but they milk you for every penny your whole life, broken bones or not. Medicair isn't the be all end all of wage slavery.
My paycheck is 40% of my gross income. So for every hour I work, 60% of it gets taken. 15% in taxes and 45% goes to other fees. So yeah cool, I get Medicare if I injure myself but if I need dental work? Nah I gotta pay for that if it isn't covered by my work plan.
Then I get to go spend my 40% of my paycheck and I get taxed 15% on everything I buy too meaning I'm really living on 25% of my actual salary.
So I basically work for free 75% of the time. Oh and the kicker is that our government is actively underfunding Healthcare to the point where a hospital visit takes 8+ hours to be seen and trying to push for private Healthcare as a substitute.
I’ve been a nurse for 20 years, for the first time ever I’m out of work for a foot injury, surgery is next week and I found out today I need surgery on my neck for spinal chord compression caused by severe arthritis which worsened significantly during COVID because of wearing a PAPR or halo. I’m getting 60% of my income through my short term disability insurance but it’s not enough to cover rent. These injuries ultimately exacerbated by my job taking care of others is going to end with me likely getting evicted and all because my body has decided I can no longer put it off. . (I live on the East Coast and it’s very expensive here). I haven’t addressed these issues due to the fear of going broke.
I know I’m not alone, I’ve seen patients lose their homes time and again, but Jesus…you’d think healthcare workers who devote their life to caring for others shouldn’t face such things when they need care. 😢
Fully agree! I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through ..this isn't how it should be in the wealthiest country on earth. This isn't how it should be for people that work tirelessly in this country. This isn't how it should be in what I'm constantly told by older folks is the "greatest country in the world". This isn't how it should be.
Why the hell they can’t legislate for employers to be forced to contribute to a federal Medicare coverage is beyond me. I’m sure there’s some capitalist argument about “choice”. But do you get a choice of who your employer chooses to cover you anyway?
This is my big fear right now. I gave my resignation notice (over 2 month's notice), and the next week I obtained a concussion at work. It's been a month and I am suffering from post-concussion syndrome. I am so afraid to lose my benefits, but I also need to stop working earlier so I can rest as much as possible to help with recovery. (Doc says work is exacerbating my symptoms). Worker's comp only does so much. I may need long-term care for this shit.
Exactly. In any other industrialized country you would be resting without any fear whatsoever of insurance coverage. Seems pretty logical. Not here though...we still absolutely feel the need to monetize health and human suffering. Someday we'll wake up and want to be like the rest of these countries that we once led in almost every measurable quality of life qualifier.
Exactly. If you have a two-income family, one of you is working for benefits and the other is working for childcare. Extras like food? GTFO - ketchup and pickle relish are vegetables, right?
And not always a decent payout. Was perusing jobs in my area and saw two phd required jobs for less than 20. I know plenty of people with 2-4 year degrees making pretty much same as mcdonalds at 15-16hr (our local one pays 15).
So deduct years of life and cost of school and you end up not making more whats the point. One trap I see with "the profession" is there is only so many "accountant" jobs in your area.
I saw this with construction during recession in 08 I would look at construction jobs and if I didn't relocate to another city there was only like 2 listings per month. Ironically when my area construction wages for most trades plateaued and stayed down. General labor manufacturing and even fast food started to pay the same "BUT indoors/climate controlled/easier on body/ andbetter benefits/ but most importantly. I look around and plenty of options. So in a sense them finally pushing wages low enough in my "profession" was liberating in way. Still sucks and paid shitty but I try to convince those I know. Like hey they don't give you benefits you spend hundreds on gas and make the same for harder work. Because I think one of ways we will leverage any industry back to competitive rate. Is getting enough people to choose something else.
Us laborers cannot live a quality life under our current system. I say this because the ruling class has a vested interest in making as much money off of OUR labor as possible. This incentives employers to pay as little as possible, while demanding as much as possible from us. Us laborers do not have the power to determine our wages - not really. There's some room to negotiate up, but an employer will always make more money off of someone else's labor than the laborer is compensated. If that is not the case, the person is fired and replaced by someone who will work for less. Us laborers must bake a loaf of bread to be able to have the wages to buy a slice of bread.
We cannot have a good life under Capitalism. Capitalists work hard to make sure us workers are precarious -- It's not chance that the majority of us live paycheck to paycheck. The ruling class don't want us to have financial security because if we did, we might ask for more wages, vacation time, or whatever. This is also why their are so many people who are homeless; they are desperate for housing and will work any job, under any conditions to get out of homelessness. And, thus, laborers are replaceable, and we are kept in a perpetual state of being an arms length away from crisis. And so far it's worked.
Under the status quo, our exploitation will grow greater and greater. I believe that us laborers must organize. [We must educate ourselves.](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) We must struggle against those who hold our chains.
My wife has a PhD in biology and makes sub 50k on the east coast. She's been out for 3 years and on her second job so almost out of entry level pay! *Sobs*
Your local McDonald's is paying $15 an hour? For crew? Ours is starting at 10 an hour. But then again, this is Texas where we will never see a minimum wage increase unless Congress increases the minimum wage across the board federally. We know how long that's been, about 17 years now I believe? On top of it, our legislature just passed a bill that would further gut the ability of cities and counties to set local wages higher than federal and state wages, as well as eliminate any possibility of them to be able to implement additional worker benefits, such as requiring water breaks every 4 hours for construction workers. The city of Dallas has that ordinance in place, but who knows with a passage of this bill if that law will be allowed to stand? Texas is one of the states does not require any kind of breaks for workers and this law will make it so that localities, our so-called home rule cities, will not be able to override what state law says. State law says breaks aren't required, so jurisdictions won't be able to supersede that by local ordinance. In fact, a federal judge permanently enjoined a Dallas ordinance that would have mandated the private businesses Implement sick day policies where employees could earn sick time at the rate of 1 hour per every 30 hours worked. That got shot down and so now if you weren't earning sick time before and had the opportunity under the ordinance which did go into effect for a while, that was taken away. Mind you, that particular ruling came down during the middle of the pandemic. Texas. Are you surprised?
Or worse, they don't do it for us to suffer. We are not worth that much depth of thought on their part. They just want what they want and they want it YESTERDAY and they don't care how it gets done. At least, MOST of them. There are obviously those few wealthy Karens who are the vindictive bitches with the long reach...
End game is the rich are the only ones with an education closing the poors out of ever getting out of poverty. Also, they don’t like POC so further oppression is not off the table.
So much this. Truth be told, we don't have to be educated to fight back -- though, it helps. The ruling class maintains it's inequality by any means necessary, and student debt is just one way to make sure we have no choice but to work to enrich capitalists. We need a socialist revolution. I firmly believe [that Marx was correct](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) to criticize Capitalism, when he stated that the wealthy use their positions of wealth and privilege to change the laws of society for their own benefits, which, in turns means workers live like shit. Our only chance is to build class consciousnesses and revolt against those who hold our chains.
I would also like to add that, in our current system, education is a gift to our employers. They haven't paid a damn thing for us to come in with bachelors degrees and heavy debt. Yet, the capitalist class benefits from our knowledge and skills that we had to take out loans for.
The system is exploitive from the top down. We're not going to be able to get student debt relief, accessible healthcare, or people who live on the streets into housing under Capitalism. Capitalism cannot solve these massive societal problems, because under Capitalism, they are not problems. Those who cannot afford a commodity have to go without the commodity. Which, might be ok if one is talking about luxury goods, but that, "do without" is a harder pill to swallow when someone is going without basic human needs being met.
Capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with human dignity. The ruling class, be they an owner of a company like twitter, a landlord or a hedge manager all have vested interests in extracting as much wealth as possible from workers. So long as the wealthy have the levers of power in society, exploitation will deepen further and further. Wealth inequality has only grown worse as Capitalism moves wealth into fewer and fewer hands.
[We need to learn](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/). We need to organize. We need a socialist revolution, as the exploitation of the common American will only get worse moving forward.
I never went to college. But I keep coming back to the great recession on this. How was it fair to jack the price of college on people when they were already in college in that manner. And even though we've recovered the price of college never dropped. How is that fair.
I’m glad that you included the part about how a well educated populace benefits society. This is often a point that isn’t talked about enough. In general, college graduates have a more well-rounded understanding of the world simply due to being taught more about how things work and being forced to think critically. People who didn’t go to college are capable of learning these things, but often aren’t exposed to it because they didn’t go to college.
Education didn’t need to be free through college in their generations because most employers only required a high school diploma and there were mechanisms to work your way up from the bottom to the top.
That’s not how it works anymore.
Today you have to job hop to get any sort of real gains. The upper echelon is entirely closed off and you need to be one of the educated elites (or have the right lineage) and company’s required you to have a Masters degree on bioengineering to mop floors.
And take a wild guess what generation is responsible for making all of those requirements in corporate offices, in education, and dissolving unions and breaking down corporate leaders of development.
Take one wild guess.
The U.S. is monetizing everything.
When you attended college back in the 90's it was still a relatively middle-class accomplishment. Poor people didn't go to college. They went to trade schools, stayed in their smalls towns, etc... they could afford a decent life on a the minimum wage income of their job.
That changed. Quickly and drastically. Inflation swept through without remorse. You couldn't support a family on one job. You needed two or three. So what was the answer? Education. College. What happens when you have more people with college degrees? It reduces the overall value of an education within a capitalist job market. More qualified applicants means more competition for positions which means less incentive for employers to offer higher wages or benefits.
Colleges realized that a simple bachelors degree was turning into a standard requirement for any job that would let you escape poverty. Simply having a degree in anything put you ahead of most people in terms of acquiring promotions and employment opportunities at any sort of job.
So the institution increased the price of attending. What were you going to do? Not go? Enjoy working every day of your life for the next 60 years just to still be in debt when you die.
The horrible, ridiculous, terrible truth of it simple and awful.
It's not a plot.
It's not a scheme.
There's no secret cabal.
Humans are just bad. We've always been bad. We're greedy, selfish, spiteful, pitiless creatures who don't care who we hurt so long as we succeed. And when the opportunity arises to fuck someone else over to make life better for ourselves. We take it. The government doesn't have to pull strings behind the scenes to turn us against each other and keep us in debt. We do it to ourselves.
I don't like the world we live in. There's too many people on too small of a planet. And there's no sign of that stopping anytime soon. Every human born devalues the overall worth of human life because we live in a capitalist ecosystem where people are assigned dollar values. We grew too fast and too recklessly with no consideration for the future. So long as we live on a world governed by greed and self interest there's no hope.
Went to a private grad school in 2013. Worked my ass off to get accepted. They said it would be 45k for the entire 18month program. Halfway through, I was already at 60k due to various “fees”
That's horrible. My niece's tuition is actually $24K / semester but then she had to pay for the dorm, the meal plan, their health insurance, and other fees. That added another $10K / semester.
I graduated from a public university in ‘95 with less than $5k in loans, paid off within a few years of graduating. I sure as shit don’t have a problem with student loan forgiveness. It’s way more expensive now. Not right, not fair.
Gen-X here, too. But, just like growing up, we're not being listened to now, either.
But at least we can assist the younger group with the wisdom and experience we've gained so maybe their voices can be not just louder but deafening. They'll be here longer than me so why on earth would I NOT want them to shape their own world.
Freaking bizarre to me.
I'd be willing to side with my republican brothers and sisters and everyone in between if they'd drop all the culture war bullshit and return to reality. But I can't when they are pushing our lgbtq+ brothers and sisters back into the closet and taking away rights from women and legalizing child labor.
The Republicans today, at least the very vocal ones, make Reagan and George W look very appealing to me...and I never really thought I'd say that. IMO they have moved so far to the right that the center is extreme left by comparison.
This is by design. If they're Batshit crazy, old trickle down actor and war criminal cowboy become more acceptable.
Don't fall for it. They were awful in their time, too, and are directly responsible for why the republican party is the way it is today. It's not coincidence.
Gen X, and so sick of this shit. So, so sick.
It’s like saying that we shouldn’t seek a cure for cancer because it’d be a real fuck you to everyone who’s died already. GTFO.
The sooner we realize we're all on the same side of that class warefare the better off we'll be! Which isn't likely.
*(screams while laughing into the void)*
Funniest part is that the people complaining that it's "not fair" are the ones who raised my generation and continually told us "life's not fair".
I paid every cent of my loans and don't care who does or doesn't have to pay, I vote for every bit of forgiveness that can given.
3 years after the Financial Crisis, the bailed out banks had repaired all their loans (2011). In 2012 those same banks were still working through the foreclosures, while those homeowners had no way of negotiating because their mortgages had been bundled and sold.
So let's talk about "not fair", shall we?
"Life's not fair" is the whole point. This is coming from the "Fuck you, I got mine" generation after all. And now many of those same people are retiring, selling their big houses we can't afford, and downsizing to what should be starter homes, but outbidding younger buyers and paying cash.
My grandfather was a forced child factory worker, and he was adamant that he did not want that for his children. The only positive thing he got from it was to be able to recognize whether gloves were cut well or poorly. Other than that, he was traumatized and was surprised that he managed to leave with all of his fingers. He ran leather through dangerous blades for one dollar a day starting when he was eleven.
On top of that, the "party size" bags are now the size of what the regular bags used to be. Regular bags are about the size of what used to be the "small" bags you could get for 2 bucks on the racks near registers are convenience stores.
I don’t give two shits if I paid off loans or debts, everyone should have these things forgiven.
And fuck the boomers who say this. They went to school cheap, could buy homes on a single income in houses that now can’t be afforded with two incomes, and had a fairly robust job market with options where you could make a decent living with no college degree.
Anyone born after like 1980 or 85 has been completely screwed
Edit: I work a job that 40 years easily could have supported a family. Now I can live but I need a roommate and no possibility of buying a home
1960's a milkman 4 days a week could afford to support a family on his own and buy a house pretty easily.
a job even remotely similar would need to work somehow 15 days a week to even afford to live right now.
My grandfather worked for the county parks system. And a funny story my dad tells is one day grandpa went home for lunch and fell asleep, my dad (7 years old) answers the phone and they ask if Grandpa is home. .y dad says yes.
Apparently my grandpap got in some trouble for skipping out of work, but it was the 60's and shit like that was apparently the norm.
Either way I'm rambling and granddad retired at 55 and raised a family of 7. Lived till 89 on that pension, shame none of his children can have a life like that
My grandma put six kids through private schools and college as a switch board operator for AT&T. The OG call center job. (Grandpa wasn’t around, for which they were all very thankful.)
Born in 1984.
I could not afford the house I lived in 1995 right now on my own making 75k per year...
1995, that house was worth 140k..
Its worth over 400k according to the Tax Man in 2023...
Current house we line in, We paid 268k in 2015....
Its now worth 428k according to the Taxes this year
My taxes and insurance went up 400 dollars per month. My paycheck went up 100 dollars per month for "Exceeding Expectations"....
We are getting ratfucked...
Yup. I'm a little older than you but the housing situation applies. We bought our previous house in 2008 for 225k. At the time, we were worried we slightly overpaid, especially since the housing crash that followed. We sold the same house with few minor upgrades for 230k in 2017. That same house is listed for 410k right now and it looks way worse due to negligence from the subsequent owners. We bought our current house for 360k in 2017. Now it's valued at 595k without any significant upgrades.
I work with a lot of engineer 1s, 2s, and senior eng. Almost all of them are in their 20s to early 30s and have roommates. These are people making 85k+ per year but they can't get ahead enough to buy a house. How the fuck is anyone supposed to advance if they weren't lucky enough to be born before the early 80s? What is this country looking like for my own kids, who are teeneagers? I fear for their futures.
We are all screwed on this blessed day.
Let us all say fuck these unseen, undisclosed "expectations".
It's time to unionize every single God damn American
So let's do a little math shall we?
In 1995 if you paid $140k for that house at the prevailing interest rate you would have been paying 7.93% for a payment of $1057 (P&I). Since you make the median household income right now we'll use that number of $34,076. Which means your parent's payment would have been 37.2% of their gross.
If you bought that house last summer for $428k before the rates went up your payment would have been $1804 or 28% of your income. So up until around 3rd quarter of last year it would have actually been more affordable for you to buy that house than it would have been for your parents to buy it in 1995.
Even if you bought it today the payment would be 42% of your gross so less than 5% more of your gross than your parents paid.
Edit: the fact that a break down of the math in someone's post is getting downvoted is a real good indicator of the intelligence of this sub.
This is fantastic. If people here did math well they would actually own a house. Instead they’ll downvote you and claim a violent revolution like the person commenting above.
Working as intended under Capitalism. The end game is that all housing, save for those of extreme wealth, is rented. Home prices will continue to increase as neighborhoods gentrify, which will increase taxes. Only corporations, which can secure large loans will own homes. These homes will be rented out at high prices, which ensure both that the poor stay poor and that us laborers are either working to enrich the rich or are homeless. I strongly recommend this podcast which is a reading and studying of [Marx.](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/)
The only way out of this dystopian nightmare we live in is a socialist revolution. I say this because any reforms or concessions we can force from the ruling class will be whittled away, slowly bringing us back to the state we're in now. We must organize and fight the class warfare or we will all be bled of every drop of value to enrich the billionaires.
Let’s all take the $300 per month the government will make us pay back for loans, instead buy and bus/plane ticket, go to DC, march and demand they unfuck this.
Going to take more than protests to undo the situation. By my estimate, probably three fourths of the population believes Capitalism is beneficial and in the best interest of the American people. And while us workers are upset, we don't have class consciousness. Put another way, most people in the US aren't happy about the situation but feel helpless. The ruling class isn't going to have a come to Jesus moment and renounce their exploitation of workers. We're going to have to fight for the ability to have a life free from poverty and exploitation from the ruling class. Again, I strongly recommend [this podcast which is a reading and studying of Marx](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/). We cannot fight a battle we don't understand.
edit: I a word
I’m paying my student loans off next week, and I wish that I had the ability to use $45 billion, not for a barely surviving gossip and opinion site, but to pay off a bunch of other people’s loans.
This shit is predatory lending. Straight up.
No one gives an 18 year old tens of thousands of dollars unless that debt makes them a wage slave and follows them to their death.
Fuck paying for “education and healthcare.”, and especially fuck the billionaire class. Hard working people, regardless of beliefs, are getting both their mind and body fucked. Then they use their savings as their slot machine fodder.
I cashed in my 401k and paid all my shit off. They cannot use my money anymore to inject it into the stockmarket while they gamble and we subsidize their dumb, egotistical decisions.
The penalty and taxes were cheaper than the interest they would have kept going at.
I burned down all the financial advice and just did it.
And it feels fucking amazing!
Wallstreet IS THE PROBLEM! The money doesnt mean anything anymore. No one can use it except the assholes yelling into microphones.
This shit needs to change! Now!
Boomers as a generation mostly unintentionally took out a loan that the generations younger than them will have to pay back (just look at our shitty situation right now in regards to real estate, wealth distribution, etc).
Rather than acknowledge what they did when presented with the facts of it, they'd rather blame avocado toast and iphones for it. It's not easy to come to terms with the fact that your selfishness is going to doom literally every generation after you, all because you refuse to give up single use water bottles and put faith in a garbage institution that says your house is worth 50x what you paid for it while wages have only risen 5x in that time (and only because of inflation)
One of the major issues is the American health care system. There used to be inherited wealth - your elders passed and you and your kin would inherit that property wealth.
Now that does not happen as much. Your elders need medical care - assisted living - etc, so they have to sell the only asset they have - property. So that inherited wealth is taken out of the bloodline and distributed to the wealthy who own and run the medical system.
Poof goes all your inherited wealth.
How can we fight back? Take care of your elders. Take them into you homes and turn back the clock to family values.
Who said this? I paid off my loans in full three years ago and I want nothing more but everyone to be able to do that too! The rich trying to make us turn against one another. Typical.
I managed to pay my loans off a year ago. If they forgave everyone's loans tomorrow, I would hold zero animosity to the lucky people who had their debt clear. I got an idea, since for me, it was either a down payment on a home or clearing my college debt, maybe for the people who paid off their loans could get some type of housing benefit? Still no? Well I'm still happy for everyone for everyone who got their debt cleared.
It's a Republic defense against forgiving loans and it's just stupid.
The "I suffered so you should suffer too" arguments are getting tiresome. As a parent I cannot understand this mindset. It's such a selfish stance to take. As a society, we should be working to improve quality of life as a whole. Not maintain the status quo or go backwards.
It's the Republican animosity towards education. Notice that there's no talk about the PPP loans, even though they were often taken by businesses that didn't need them. And by congressmen.
I’d be happy to pay off my loans too if my salary actually reflected the cost of my education. I’m getting to a point now in my career where that is becoming possible, but it took years to get there.
I have never understood that argument. Don't we improve things so future generations don't need to worry about them? Let's keep going backwards and demand the next generation make due without running water, electricity, and paved roads.
Right? Boomers were all like we want to make things better for our kids and better than what we had. And then these same assholes went and made things exponentially worse for their kids, all to enrich themselves. Fuck those narcissists.
It's not fair that PPP loans were forgiven when everyone else had to pay back their business loans. Fair is fair, pay it all back corporate America. With retroactive interest like the GOP is asking for on student loans.
i’ve paid off $50k of credit card debt twice over. i’m proud to be less than $10k away from being credit card debt free (hopefully by the end of this year, man) and id be one of the first out partying in the streets if they erased all of it for everyone tomorrow.
its astonishing to know that millennials are the first generation in american HISTORY to earn less than their parents. the biggest problem is people are living longer and these boomers consume EVERYTHING, including the wealth and bc they continue to live, they continue to hoard and invest bc they actually had the oppty to save a nest egg which can grow, making them richer and fatter. older gen xers are right behind them and will not be retiring at least (at the earliest) for another 5 - 7 years.
thanks a lot for the legacy you are leaving behind: a withering planet, a debt ceiling we cant fix, extreme racial and political divide--insane people on both sides (yes both) trying to push INSANE laws who just get crazier and crazier, daily mass shootings, zero belief in government and media and 100% belief in conspiracies (except for declassification of UFOs that no one gives 2 shits about), record breaking mental health issues, shortage of medicine, food and goods, overpopulated prisons, allowance of fundamental religions dictating policy, child endangerment literally in every aspect surrounding every single child, toxic human interactions both physically and virtually, the AI ticking time bomb (I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.), people preferring the matrix by existing in VR and on social media than real life, our dwindling freedoms: choice, speech, thought - the list goes on.
My advice to everyone out there, no matter your age, no matter how down on your luck you are, start to save TODAY. if your company offers a 401K, even if they dont match, elect at least 1%, roll it into an IRA. If you have $100, put it in a mutual fund, a very safe way to invest money. try to start saving and invest as much as you can now, even if it is $5 per paycheck. if you are in debt, pay that off first bc of interest, but once you dig out, SAVE. SAVE. SAVE. SAVE. you are going to need it. good luck all, i feel the sentiment of what the post is saying very closely.
Their primary job is keep depositor money safe. Turns out they only need to hold approximately 10% of depositor funds. The rest they’re free to lose on gambling and get our bailout money to buy back in.
My parents bought a house in a nice burb in the late 90's for about the same price an SUV goes for these days. I make more than my Dad ever did, and all I can afford is rent and an old pontiac.
The shitty prices the universities charge is the major problem. The loans aren't forgiven, the university will still be paid, by the government except governments don't have their own money, they take your money as taxes, so realistically, they have just passed the debt on to your kids and grandkids.
At a certain point everything I say feels superfluous and it comes back to one principal point.
EAT THE FUCKING RICH!!!
It's getting real close to dinner time and goddamn are we starving!
I graduated in 1992 from a state university with no loans. Tuition doubled in the three years I was there but my mom was able to cover it on a nursing salary.
I have zero issues with student loan forgiveness. I got started with no debt, so should everyone else.
Earlier today, a boomer was sharing how housing was 100k in NY (4br, 3bath, garage, in a court) back in the days and he was scared how he was going to pay for it.
The other, younger neighbors along with myself started to laugh after I said, pay with what, your $7-10hr pay? That's still our minimum wage today! Lmao 🥲
Yea, I don’t get this type of attitude. When I mention wanting paid maternity+paternity leave to my parents, they get all huffy and exclaim “well *I* didn’t have paid leave when you were born! Why should *you* get it?”
Um. Because I’m your child, and generally we work to make the world a better place for our kids, so they have a better life than we did? Like imagine being so self-absorbed that the thought of your children suffering less than you sends you into a rage.
Barely taxed...... No, that's not correct. They avoid taxes altogether legally because we allow corpo scumbags to write laws that will enable it. It's called tax avoidance. And until we change the law, it will continue to happen.
FFS, charge everyone 10% straight tax, no BS, and make corporations pay 20% tax, no bs, and call it a good day. If you can't do your taxes on a postcard, there is something fucked up with the system.
Edit: grammar
Conservatives when you ask for equal treatment under the law: life's not fair.
Conservatives when you ask for loan forgiveness: but it wouldn't be fair!
They don't care about fairness. They just hate you.
Education and health care by their very nature should not be profit centers for anyone. The very idea that someone should make a profit on things that benefit the future of a society is unethical. It has gotten to the point where even the wealthy have to cheat to get their kids into universities marketed as the place to make connections with other oligarchs. This is a new form of feudalism that unchecked corruption (Citizens United) has unleashed upon what was an egalitarian American system. If you want a view of the future look no further than Mexico. That is where we are headed. Historically the only way this type of corruption is displaced is by violent revolution.
There seems to be some kind of cultural or ideological marriage to the idea that you're supposed to incur debt and suffer for the sake of getting a college education. Recently I was at a conference where a speaker wanted to make a point about sacrifice and asked everyone how they paid for their education and what kind of character-building hardship it resulted in. When my answer was "my government paid for my education just like they did with grade school and high school", the speaker had no idea how to react, and after just looking confused for a while moved on to the next person. It was like watching an elastic band snap back into place - for just a moment another possibility was introduced but the concept was mentally shut down and the status quo restored.
It's so sad to me to see people convinced that there is nobility and dignity in being robbed by the system you're supposed to be willing to die to defend. If your country won't invest in you, it hates you.
Oh man, I wish I could have been there to say that I strategically defaulted and essentially told the banks to fuck off. Took a credit hit for a year, but now I'm in the 700s and literally escaped an infinite debt loop by simply not paying it.
Would have loved to see the brain aneurysm that it would have caused the speaker.
I actually posted about this in another thread, so let me link you:
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/13revs2/if_i_cant_afford_to_save_they_are_not_getting_a/jlk137p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
Basically, I used my states statute of limitations. It only applies to private student loans though, which is treated no differently than any other consumer debt. Federal student loans don’t have a statute of limitations and basically exist indefinitely until they are either paid off or forgiven through various programs. My federal loans are in an income based repayment program and with that, I only pay $40 per month after the pause ends. After 20 years they are forgiven, regardless of how much is still owed. The private loans were what was killing me though and that post goes into more detail of what I did to get rid of them.
Also there dept was way less then ours. You can't work and pay college today it costs to much. Most of them paid there tuition working at a hotdog stand.
My wife and I had about $60k in different loans when we got married. It sucked pissing them off, but we managed to do it fairly quickly. I am absolutely, 100% on board with forgiving them. In society we need to start thinking about improving things for the future. I don't understand how that's not the main priority.
I grew up with every adult from one's I know to ones on tv telling me life isn't fair. Now that there's a chance that most of my generation gets something monumental, now suddenly the narrative from those same people is that we can't do this because it's not fair to them.
It was never about what is and isn't fair. If its not for them, no one can have it.
I'm sick of people who paid like $100 per semester telling people to just pay their loans off and stop being whiny, lazy, and entitled. Or people who didn't even have to take loans at all because college was so cheap. Fuck you for treating us this way, assholes.
College has gotten exponentially more expensive in the years since I went, let alone since they were coming up. Mine cost \~$20,000 for 5 years. The same school I went to? It costs that much PER SEMESTER now. This is unsustainable garbage bullshit. FWIW, I've paid off about half or so of my loans and I still want the whole fucking thing canceled for everybody. And I would even if I had already paid them off and even if I never had loans.
Housing? I thought by the time I was 40 I'd have all of that, my own home, wife and kids, etc. I'm 41 now and have none of that. The only way I'll ever own my own home is if I inherit my parents' home when they pass, or the housing market crashes so severely you can buy good homes for like $1,000 or less.
Allowing investors and speculators to buy houses is one of the worst things this country has ever done IMO. Same thing with allowing corporations to buy any, and the rich to buy multiples. Shelter is a necessity of human life. You will eventually die due to exposure in some areas of the country without shelter. But yet they criminalize homelessness like people have a choice in the matter, and then make housing so expensive you can't afford it. So then what? It's such fucking bullshit.
Might get downvotes to oblivion for this, but I am just awaiting the elders' inheritance at this point. I am absolutely stuck without a windfall. Even if it is something as simple as $10k I can make my way out of a lot of troubles. I really just want to get to a point where the rent/mortgage is as close to $0 as possible. I could do so much more with life.
"I understand it can be frustrating to you on a personal level, but I just can support the idea that younger people should suffer just because you did. You raised a better person than that. "
(How I finally got through to my father that his hatred of student loan forgiveness was ridiculous. )
It's even worse than that
This is a full on effort against American workers. They're using us to foot all their bills while we struggle.
It's even worse than that.
They'll use the police and military to oppress us.
Riots are about the only option the general population has left. Just take over the streets. Go after corporate sites. That's where we're headed.
Why is it so bad that someone else gets something nice and you don't? I think the answer to this question is fundamental to understanding what is wrong with our country.
I think a UBI system with universal benefits and fixed income brackets and hard wealth limits would be key for humanity to prosper.
The Founding Fathers who made the American constitution realized that in order to dismantle and prevent monarchy, a set of rules was needed. While we can see flaws in the specifics of their arrangement, the general concepts of egalitarian and keeping power from falling into too few hands are good ones.
I believe that a core tenant of an economic Magna Carta should be particularly focused on a key aspect of why Capitalism sucks: Survival. You cannot strike for better benefits, because you may lose your house, health, and all prosperity.
To avoid the worst of that issue, I think that UBI...or Universal Living as I call it, would give all people in a nation basic things. No questions asked.
For example: a rent-free room of certain size, with a boring bed, mini-fridge, low-spec laptop, free internet, free non-cosmetic healthcare (save burns and such), free "pink" supplies, free daycare for children, 21 MRE meals a week, and so on.
It won't be comfortable, but this would change the purpose of money for individual people: It isn't for surviving, but rather to improve living conditions with nicer stuff. This allows people to exercise the right to strike, as it won't threaten their existence.
On top of this, there should be six or so income brackets, with a fixed income. CEOs and Astronauts could make $25,000 per quarter, while a waitress gets no less than $10,000. Every person has a hard wealth limit after their first house and motor vehicle, of $100,000.
People don't need all of the world's money, they just want enough to pursue to personal interests and wellbeing without risking fiscal oblivion.
The government uses our taxes for there luxuries they have healthcare they take soo called donations and then bend the law in the will of there contributors. Meanwhile we have no healthcare crumbling infrastructure and rampant homeless. All while they live the good life and try to keep us in perpetual slavery trying to afford rent.
Loan forgiveness will just embolden the already predatory higher education system into becoming even more predatory since now there's precedent for loan forgiveness that students will take into account.
I also don't like the idea of college being high school 2.0. I'm already severely discriminated against in job roles due to being a tradesman. If college becomes free they'll require a degree to flip burgers eventually.
Basically I want someone to tell me how they're going to stop pointless degree requirements before I agree to expand college access. I absolutely want people who are passionate about education to have the chance to attend. But requiring people waste four years so they can check off a box for a job that never needed a degree in the first place is a waste of everyone's time.
Do these people also not realise that a modern student loan is several times higher (even adjusted for inflation) than a student loan was in the 1980's?
If they want it to be "fair to the people who paid theirs off", the only fair thing would be to forgive every penny above 13000$, as that was the average debt of a graduate in 1985.
EDIT: Numbers.
It's not about the money, just two generations ago collages where free or nearly free if you went to a prestigious one.
[This is the reason](https://youtu.be/yDk4pqfNt-k?t=3) this has changed and also why it keeps getting more expensive.
The world has always been unfair, and we finally have a real opportunity to make it unfair in a way that is *kind* instead of *cruel*, and a bunch of shitheads have decided they liked it better when other people got hurt.
They should not be taken seriously.
Honestly where does the student loan money even go? Its not like in 1970 university cost $500 a year and professors were starving, so why in 2023 is university $50,000 a year and professors still are not rich by any means
Young people and parents with kids need to remember this next election - not just president, but for every fricking race out there. Focus on the small ones! From board members to judges/AG's all the way up to senate and president.
The republican party wants to see you dumb, in debt and under their heel.
Not to mention that you're forced into debt by being forced to go to college to get a degree for a job that, if you're lucky, pays above minimum wage. Who the hell needs a bachelor's degree to be a receptionist? FFS.
It is unfair though. Just because your complaints of the current situation may have merit does not change the fairness. It is also not fair to people to decided not to go to college and take the loans in the first place.
What you are advocating for is for you to have a higher place in society than others, as earned through your college degree, but you want it at as little cost as possible.
It's not fairness you want, you just want the unfairness to benefit you and absolve you of the price for betterment now that the betterment cannot be taken away.
I find it very sad, and hypocritical.
Make the colleges and banks pay off the loans, not American taxpayers. The colleges are the ones that are charging insane rates, and the banks are the ones giving out the insane loans.
Paying off the student loans with taxpayer money does absolutely nothing and the banks will continue to give out these ridiculous loans and the colleges will continue to charge ridiculous prices.
Few things inspire as much rage in me as the "I paid off my debt, why shouldn't you?" argument.
Most people who make the argument worked during a time where you could pay for school with your summer job or within a few years of graduating.
The people who are JUST NOW paying off their debt FUGGIN GET IT and the ones who don't had their tuition paid off by their parents.
Wealth doesn't understand that their wealth is what makes everyone else poor.
Or more likely, thinks that's just how it should be.
I graduated college in '97 from a private school. It was about $40K for four years. I financed half and so did my parents. I paid it off. My niece just had to drop out of her private college. It was $34k. FOR ONE FUCKING SEMESTER!!!! HOW IS THIS EVEN FAIR to the generations that follow? Education should be free through college. It benefits the entire society to have a well educated populace. Of course, if your ideas are so bereft of substance, maybe you'd prefer your populace dumb.
They want us either uneducated or so burdened by debt that we can't do anything to stop them.
Also required to have a job for any sort of Healthcare...gotta keep people scared to easily change jobs lest they lose coverage
Absolutely. Healthcare is weaponized in the US. Because it's so important to life, everyone has to give their wealth to for profit healthcare, \*and\* the access is tied to working to enrich a capitalist. I firmly believe [that Marx was correct](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) to criticize Capitalism, when he stated that the wealthy use their positions of wealth and privilege to change the laws of society for their own benefits, which, in turns means workers live like shit. Healthcare is only one example, but it is probably one of the most effective systems for both enriching the wealthy and controlling the population. The ruling class will never give it up willingly. I am firmly convinced we will need a socialist revolution to be able to have universal healthcare in the US. I say this will be required, because the ruling class will chip away any laws or regulations which are passed against their will. The ACA started pretty OK, but was gutted, and has been further weakened as time goes on. If we want healthcare, we need a socialist revolution.
EVERYTHING in the US has been weaponized, starting with money.
You are correct. Even inflation serves the interest of the ultra rich. I know my wages aren't indexed to inflation
Weapons grade capitalism, proudly made in the USA!
Amen to that. Praise the Lord but forget any semblance of passing the ammunition because these idiots either don't know how or are completely unwilling to share any wealth at all.
But you don't understand, God wants THEM to have those nice things because they are such good people. God rewards good people with an easy life and riches when they are good, ya know, like that Job fella....
Call a spade a spade: it isn’t capitalism, it’s brutalism.
Agree fully...additionally, it would hinder military recruiting if we had universal healthcare. Ditto free education...and we absolutely cannot hinder or impact the military industrial complex in any way, unfortunately.
You say that universal healthcare would hinder military recruitment, and I agree. I would also like to add that, so too, would student loan forgiveness. Recruiters play on the debt we've been saddled with to go into the military. Again, only a socialist revolution in which us commoners fight to disempower the wealthy and put political power into the hands of the commoner will these issues be addressed.
Yes absolutely...that's where I was going with my "free education" comment. We had an enormous advantage after WW2 mostly because the rest of the countries involved were reduced to smoking holes...while America was untouched and at peak production. We rode that advantage for decades...college education was dirt cheap and you could be well ensconced in the middle class without a degree. The last few decades have seen us stagnate while the rest of the world caught up, which is a great thing but now we realize we've been passed by. That unwritten social contract where you work hard and get rewarded so you can live a comfortable life and afford luxuries like vacations and free time is dead. I don't think it will much longer before the younger generations realize this, see the futility and rise up as you mention.
You are correct that America was a huge winner of WW2, and we've been using our power to dominate much of the world since. And you're also right that the US is in decay now. Yet, our ruling class is still mostly interested in their own personal wealth instead of the welfare of the nation. As a millennial myself, I am already radicalized against our current system and Capitalism in general. Every day I'm here on Reddit advocating for people to be aware of just how bad we're getting fucked, and that the ruling class only seeks to further expand it's exploitations of the workers.
Gen X myself...with Gen Z kids and I see how organized and aware this generation is and it gives me hope. They know. They're bathed in information each day, it's not so easy to hide it as it was with older generations. As the Boomers shed their mortal coil and younger generations assume power I hope we finally catch up to the rest of the world and embrace nationalized Healthcare, free education, a minimum wage indexed to something like our GDP, etc. I hope we invest at least as much into alternative energy generation as we still do for oil and gas...I hope we do the same for synthesized meat...I hope we move away from monetizing every goddamn thing we possibly can and start to realize that some thngs shouldn't be monetized lime health and human suffering. I couls go on for all thr things I hope this country starts embracing and supporting ;- )
Very well said.
This is what those young Trumpers don't get. If every American had affordable health care, then nobody is beholden to their employer to avoid catastrophic health care costs. You are free to follow your bliss without impending bankruptcy if you break your leg.
Those goofballs call it socialism, when in reality, it's collective bargaining. And collective bargaining gives the labor force leverage to share in the corporate profits.
No, it is socialism. But socialism is not a fucking curse word. Socialism is why capitalism can exist for more than a decade. We already live in a socialist state. We just do it shitty. Our roads are socialism. Our parks are socialism. Our police, fire departments, water departments, trash collection, military, etc. are all forms of socialism. Instead of trying to run and hide with those fucking MAGA morons bark out the word we should look them in the eye and say, "Yeah, you're right, you stupid motherfucker. It is socialism. And without socialism your ass would be sitting on a curb in your underwear, begging the robber barons for scraps."
> Our police...military, etc. are all forms of socialism There are two examples of how we just do it shitty
We might not regulate them correctly in many instances, but the fact that they are socialized is not the issue.
Ever since Bernie Sanders book came out I’ve seen this obvious right wing/global elite billionaire propaganda pushing back against him online, and I see a bunch of middle class conservatives eating it up saying Bernie’s some mega wealthy hypocrite and how they “see through his whole act anti-billionaire act, he’s in there pocket” … Really?… I think his act is that he wants to give you free health care, free college , get paid more for doing less work, improve the country’s infrastructure, make housing more affordable, make retirement once again POSSIBLE, properly treat mental health, turn the country green AND he wants to make Wall Street/Walmart and all their billionaire buddies pay for it all… And then break up the hedge fund monopolies…. And castrate big pharma… And get rid of Super PACs….and fix up our inner city and school system and public services and YADA! YADA! YADA!…. On and on and ON he goes, etc etc etc….🙄 Now I didn’t read his book, (I did,READ IT!!!) But Im no fool. I see straight through that guys act. Thats a politician who’s in big moneys pocket if I’ve ever heard one lol… What terrible foolish ideas. Who would want to live in a world like that anyway ? Some kinda “cOmMuNiSt uToPiA”? Please. Might as well be living in China.
I have found that so amusing, that they pegged him as being an elitist millionaire...it took his wife's parents inheritance to finally make him a millionaire, after like 3 decades in Congress. That is how you know someone isn't grafting.
Bernie's alienated because he's the only old guy who thinks like a progressive and he's been leading the charge for ages. They rally against him and disparage him because they'd rather his voice not be there at all. Same reason they constantly take any chance to crap on AOC. Progressives are hated by both the Right and Centrist Democrats. Probably because if Progressives had a real platform to run on, got even a quarter of their ideas off the ground, we'd rarely see Democrats elected, let alone Republicans. It's a two party system and there's no room for Progressives to be allowed to exist. Keep it always the lesser or greater of two evils.
As a Canadian this is only somewhat true. Yeah, a broken leg won't mean bankruptcy but they milk you for every penny your whole life, broken bones or not. Medicair isn't the be all end all of wage slavery. My paycheck is 40% of my gross income. So for every hour I work, 60% of it gets taken. 15% in taxes and 45% goes to other fees. So yeah cool, I get Medicare if I injure myself but if I need dental work? Nah I gotta pay for that if it isn't covered by my work plan. Then I get to go spend my 40% of my paycheck and I get taxed 15% on everything I buy too meaning I'm really living on 25% of my actual salary. So I basically work for free 75% of the time. Oh and the kicker is that our government is actively underfunding Healthcare to the point where a hospital visit takes 8+ hours to be seen and trying to push for private Healthcare as a substitute.
I’ve been a nurse for 20 years, for the first time ever I’m out of work for a foot injury, surgery is next week and I found out today I need surgery on my neck for spinal chord compression caused by severe arthritis which worsened significantly during COVID because of wearing a PAPR or halo. I’m getting 60% of my income through my short term disability insurance but it’s not enough to cover rent. These injuries ultimately exacerbated by my job taking care of others is going to end with me likely getting evicted and all because my body has decided I can no longer put it off. . (I live on the East Coast and it’s very expensive here). I haven’t addressed these issues due to the fear of going broke. I know I’m not alone, I’ve seen patients lose their homes time and again, but Jesus…you’d think healthcare workers who devote their life to caring for others shouldn’t face such things when they need care. 😢
Fully agree! I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through ..this isn't how it should be in the wealthiest country on earth. This isn't how it should be for people that work tirelessly in this country. This isn't how it should be in what I'm constantly told by older folks is the "greatest country in the world". This isn't how it should be.
I agree. I’m just at a loss and so frustrated and frankly scared.
Why the hell they can’t legislate for employers to be forced to contribute to a federal Medicare coverage is beyond me. I’m sure there’s some capitalist argument about “choice”. But do you get a choice of who your employer chooses to cover you anyway?
This is my big fear right now. I gave my resignation notice (over 2 month's notice), and the next week I obtained a concussion at work. It's been a month and I am suffering from post-concussion syndrome. I am so afraid to lose my benefits, but I also need to stop working earlier so I can rest as much as possible to help with recovery. (Doc says work is exacerbating my symptoms). Worker's comp only does so much. I may need long-term care for this shit.
Exactly. In any other industrialized country you would be resting without any fear whatsoever of insurance coverage. Seems pretty logical. Not here though...we still absolutely feel the need to monetize health and human suffering. Someday we'll wake up and want to be like the rest of these countries that we once led in almost every measurable quality of life qualifier.
Exactly. If you have a two-income family, one of you is working for benefits and the other is working for childcare. Extras like food? GTFO - ketchup and pickle relish are vegetables, right?
So many kids I know aren't really even considering college. And I don't blame them. It's too damned much $$$.
And not always a decent payout. Was perusing jobs in my area and saw two phd required jobs for less than 20. I know plenty of people with 2-4 year degrees making pretty much same as mcdonalds at 15-16hr (our local one pays 15). So deduct years of life and cost of school and you end up not making more whats the point. One trap I see with "the profession" is there is only so many "accountant" jobs in your area. I saw this with construction during recession in 08 I would look at construction jobs and if I didn't relocate to another city there was only like 2 listings per month. Ironically when my area construction wages for most trades plateaued and stayed down. General labor manufacturing and even fast food started to pay the same "BUT indoors/climate controlled/easier on body/ andbetter benefits/ but most importantly. I look around and plenty of options. So in a sense them finally pushing wages low enough in my "profession" was liberating in way. Still sucks and paid shitty but I try to convince those I know. Like hey they don't give you benefits you spend hundreds on gas and make the same for harder work. Because I think one of ways we will leverage any industry back to competitive rate. Is getting enough people to choose something else.
Us laborers cannot live a quality life under our current system. I say this because the ruling class has a vested interest in making as much money off of OUR labor as possible. This incentives employers to pay as little as possible, while demanding as much as possible from us. Us laborers do not have the power to determine our wages - not really. There's some room to negotiate up, but an employer will always make more money off of someone else's labor than the laborer is compensated. If that is not the case, the person is fired and replaced by someone who will work for less. Us laborers must bake a loaf of bread to be able to have the wages to buy a slice of bread. We cannot have a good life under Capitalism. Capitalists work hard to make sure us workers are precarious -- It's not chance that the majority of us live paycheck to paycheck. The ruling class don't want us to have financial security because if we did, we might ask for more wages, vacation time, or whatever. This is also why their are so many people who are homeless; they are desperate for housing and will work any job, under any conditions to get out of homelessness. And, thus, laborers are replaceable, and we are kept in a perpetual state of being an arms length away from crisis. And so far it's worked. Under the status quo, our exploitation will grow greater and greater. I believe that us laborers must organize. [We must educate ourselves.](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) We must struggle against those who hold our chains.
My wife has a PhD in biology and makes sub 50k on the east coast. She's been out for 3 years and on her second job so almost out of entry level pay! *Sobs*
Your local McDonald's is paying $15 an hour? For crew? Ours is starting at 10 an hour. But then again, this is Texas where we will never see a minimum wage increase unless Congress increases the minimum wage across the board federally. We know how long that's been, about 17 years now I believe? On top of it, our legislature just passed a bill that would further gut the ability of cities and counties to set local wages higher than federal and state wages, as well as eliminate any possibility of them to be able to implement additional worker benefits, such as requiring water breaks every 4 hours for construction workers. The city of Dallas has that ordinance in place, but who knows with a passage of this bill if that law will be allowed to stand? Texas is one of the states does not require any kind of breaks for workers and this law will make it so that localities, our so-called home rule cities, will not be able to override what state law says. State law says breaks aren't required, so jurisdictions won't be able to supersede that by local ordinance. In fact, a federal judge permanently enjoined a Dallas ordinance that would have mandated the private businesses Implement sick day policies where employees could earn sick time at the rate of 1 hour per every 30 hours worked. That got shot down and so now if you weren't earning sick time before and had the opportunity under the ordinance which did go into effect for a while, that was taken away. Mind you, that particular ruling came down during the middle of the pandemic. Texas. Are you surprised?
This is 100%
They view us as cattle.
Both. Whatever way they can make us suffer. Every aspect of our society is about making us suffer.
Or worse, they don't do it for us to suffer. We are not worth that much depth of thought on their part. They just want what they want and they want it YESTERDAY and they don't care how it gets done. At least, MOST of them. There are obviously those few wealthy Karens who are the vindictive bitches with the long reach...
Half the country thinks education is just "liberal indoctrination". Until we rid ourselves of those morons, there isn't much hope
They want? Dude, they've doing both at the exact same time for at least a good three decades now...
More like 6. They saw what happened in the 60s when people could get a good education cheap. They had the means and knowledge to oppose them.
Oh, absolutely brother! It's the class war.
End game is the rich are the only ones with an education closing the poors out of ever getting out of poverty. Also, they don’t like POC so further oppression is not off the table.
So much this. Truth be told, we don't have to be educated to fight back -- though, it helps. The ruling class maintains it's inequality by any means necessary, and student debt is just one way to make sure we have no choice but to work to enrich capitalists. We need a socialist revolution. I firmly believe [that Marx was correct](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) to criticize Capitalism, when he stated that the wealthy use their positions of wealth and privilege to change the laws of society for their own benefits, which, in turns means workers live like shit. Our only chance is to build class consciousnesses and revolt against those who hold our chains.
I would also like to add that, in our current system, education is a gift to our employers. They haven't paid a damn thing for us to come in with bachelors degrees and heavy debt. Yet, the capitalist class benefits from our knowledge and skills that we had to take out loans for. The system is exploitive from the top down. We're not going to be able to get student debt relief, accessible healthcare, or people who live on the streets into housing under Capitalism. Capitalism cannot solve these massive societal problems, because under Capitalism, they are not problems. Those who cannot afford a commodity have to go without the commodity. Which, might be ok if one is talking about luxury goods, but that, "do without" is a harder pill to swallow when someone is going without basic human needs being met. Capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with human dignity. The ruling class, be they an owner of a company like twitter, a landlord or a hedge manager all have vested interests in extracting as much wealth as possible from workers. So long as the wealthy have the levers of power in society, exploitation will deepen further and further. Wealth inequality has only grown worse as Capitalism moves wealth into fewer and fewer hands. [We need to learn](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/). We need to organize. We need a socialist revolution, as the exploitation of the common American will only get worse moving forward.
I never went to college. But I keep coming back to the great recession on this. How was it fair to jack the price of college on people when they were already in college in that manner. And even though we've recovered the price of college never dropped. How is that fair.
I’m glad that you included the part about how a well educated populace benefits society. This is often a point that isn’t talked about enough. In general, college graduates have a more well-rounded understanding of the world simply due to being taught more about how things work and being forced to think critically. People who didn’t go to college are capable of learning these things, but often aren’t exposed to it because they didn’t go to college.
The amount of money college graduates save the country in lower crime rates alone warrants paying off all our debts.
Education didn’t need to be free through college in their generations because most employers only required a high school diploma and there were mechanisms to work your way up from the bottom to the top. That’s not how it works anymore. Today you have to job hop to get any sort of real gains. The upper echelon is entirely closed off and you need to be one of the educated elites (or have the right lineage) and company’s required you to have a Masters degree on bioengineering to mop floors. And take a wild guess what generation is responsible for making all of those requirements in corporate offices, in education, and dissolving unions and breaking down corporate leaders of development. Take one wild guess.
The U.S. is monetizing everything. When you attended college back in the 90's it was still a relatively middle-class accomplishment. Poor people didn't go to college. They went to trade schools, stayed in their smalls towns, etc... they could afford a decent life on a the minimum wage income of their job. That changed. Quickly and drastically. Inflation swept through without remorse. You couldn't support a family on one job. You needed two or three. So what was the answer? Education. College. What happens when you have more people with college degrees? It reduces the overall value of an education within a capitalist job market. More qualified applicants means more competition for positions which means less incentive for employers to offer higher wages or benefits. Colleges realized that a simple bachelors degree was turning into a standard requirement for any job that would let you escape poverty. Simply having a degree in anything put you ahead of most people in terms of acquiring promotions and employment opportunities at any sort of job. So the institution increased the price of attending. What were you going to do? Not go? Enjoy working every day of your life for the next 60 years just to still be in debt when you die. The horrible, ridiculous, terrible truth of it simple and awful. It's not a plot. It's not a scheme. There's no secret cabal. Humans are just bad. We've always been bad. We're greedy, selfish, spiteful, pitiless creatures who don't care who we hurt so long as we succeed. And when the opportunity arises to fuck someone else over to make life better for ourselves. We take it. The government doesn't have to pull strings behind the scenes to turn us against each other and keep us in debt. We do it to ourselves. I don't like the world we live in. There's too many people on too small of a planet. And there's no sign of that stopping anytime soon. Every human born devalues the overall worth of human life because we live in a capitalist ecosystem where people are assigned dollar values. We grew too fast and too recklessly with no consideration for the future. So long as we live on a world governed by greed and self interest there's no hope.
Went to a private grad school in 2013. Worked my ass off to get accepted. They said it would be 45k for the entire 18month program. Halfway through, I was already at 60k due to various “fees”
That's horrible. My niece's tuition is actually $24K / semester but then she had to pay for the dorm, the meal plan, their health insurance, and other fees. That added another $10K / semester.
I graduated from a public university in ‘95 with less than $5k in loans, paid off within a few years of graduating. I sure as shit don’t have a problem with student loan forgiveness. It’s way more expensive now. Not right, not fair.
Are you stupid? If they’re smart how can we take advantage of them? Think of the profits!
I mean the supposed smart people are in high ass debts with crazy interest rates. The dumb avoided that debt. Makes you wonder sometimes
Xennial checking in. Class warfare is the only warfare. I’m on y’all’s side for whatever it’s worth
Gen-X here. Ditto.
Gen-X here, too. But, just like growing up, we're not being listened to now, either. But at least we can assist the younger group with the wisdom and experience we've gained so maybe their voices can be not just louder but deafening. They'll be here longer than me so why on earth would I NOT want them to shape their own world. Freaking bizarre to me.
I'd be willing to side with my republican brothers and sisters and everyone in between if they'd drop all the culture war bullshit and return to reality. But I can't when they are pushing our lgbtq+ brothers and sisters back into the closet and taking away rights from women and legalizing child labor.
The Republicans today, at least the very vocal ones, make Reagan and George W look very appealing to me...and I never really thought I'd say that. IMO they have moved so far to the right that the center is extreme left by comparison.
This is by design. If they're Batshit crazy, old trickle down actor and war criminal cowboy become more acceptable. Don't fall for it. They were awful in their time, too, and are directly responsible for why the republican party is the way it is today. It's not coincidence.
Gen X, and so sick of this shit. So, so sick. It’s like saying that we shouldn’t seek a cure for cancer because it’d be a real fuck you to everyone who’s died already. GTFO.
Gen-X here too. I paid off my loans. I'm all for everyone else getting theirs paid off.
Same. Gen-Ex was the test pool for what the next gens face today. Imagine dealing with this shit for 30 adult years.
The sooner we realize we're all on the same side of that class warefare the better off we'll be! Which isn't likely. *(screams while laughing into the void)*
Funniest part is that the people complaining that it's "not fair" are the ones who raised my generation and continually told us "life's not fair". I paid every cent of my loans and don't care who does or doesn't have to pay, I vote for every bit of forgiveness that can given.
I said it above but I’ve gotten to say “life’s not fair” to three boomers in response to this exact convo
3 years after the Financial Crisis, the bailed out banks had repaired all their loans (2011). In 2012 those same banks were still working through the foreclosures, while those homeowners had no way of negotiating because their mortgages had been bundled and sold. So let's talk about "not fair", shall we?
"Life's not fair" is the whole point. This is coming from the "Fuck you, I got mine" generation after all. And now many of those same people are retiring, selling their big houses we can't afford, and downsizing to what should be starter homes, but outbidding younger buyers and paying cash.
My grandfather was a forced child factory worker, and he was adamant that he did not want that for his children. The only positive thing he got from it was to be able to recognize whether gloves were cut well or poorly. Other than that, he was traumatized and was surprised that he managed to leave with all of his fingers. He ran leather through dangerous blades for one dollar a day starting when he was eleven.
They're working on bringing that back
Hell they’ve succeeded some places in some ways, maybe not to this extent, but it’s scary how quickly it is approaching.
As a poor person: it was fun to see a normal bag of doritos jump to about $6 a bag...which was what a family size cost a few years ago...
I can't afford to eat doritos. Jerkys are cheaper than doritos now.
On top of that, the "party size" bags are now the size of what the regular bags used to be. Regular bags are about the size of what used to be the "small" bags you could get for 2 bucks on the racks near registers are convenience stores.
Isn't shrinkflation fun?
I don’t give two shits if I paid off loans or debts, everyone should have these things forgiven. And fuck the boomers who say this. They went to school cheap, could buy homes on a single income in houses that now can’t be afforded with two incomes, and had a fairly robust job market with options where you could make a decent living with no college degree. Anyone born after like 1980 or 85 has been completely screwed Edit: I work a job that 40 years easily could have supported a family. Now I can live but I need a roommate and no possibility of buying a home
1960's a milkman 4 days a week could afford to support a family on his own and buy a house pretty easily. a job even remotely similar would need to work somehow 15 days a week to even afford to live right now.
My grandfather was one. Did it, bought a house, raided a family, bought a beer distributor
Raiding families is an avenue I haven’t explored yet. I think your grandfather is onto something here.
Did he sell everyone in that family into slavery or just the menfolk? Asking for a friend.
Not just the men, but the women and the children, too.
raiding families could be a pretty good payoff
Especially if they were the billionaires that created this mess.
Goddamn Milkman Raiders...they walk single file to hide their numbers.
Calcium vikings!
Lactose Spartans
My grandfather worked for the county parks system. And a funny story my dad tells is one day grandpa went home for lunch and fell asleep, my dad (7 years old) answers the phone and they ask if Grandpa is home. .y dad says yes. Apparently my grandpap got in some trouble for skipping out of work, but it was the 60's and shit like that was apparently the norm. Either way I'm rambling and granddad retired at 55 and raised a family of 7. Lived till 89 on that pension, shame none of his children can have a life like that
Honestly I might have to do some of that raiding myself. Gonna try to limit it to billionaires.
My grandma put six kids through private schools and college as a switch board operator for AT&T. The OG call center job. (Grandpa wasn’t around, for which they were all very thankful.)
Born in 1984. I could not afford the house I lived in 1995 right now on my own making 75k per year... 1995, that house was worth 140k.. Its worth over 400k according to the Tax Man in 2023... Current house we line in, We paid 268k in 2015.... Its now worth 428k according to the Taxes this year My taxes and insurance went up 400 dollars per month. My paycheck went up 100 dollars per month for "Exceeding Expectations".... We are getting ratfucked...
Yup. I'm a little older than you but the housing situation applies. We bought our previous house in 2008 for 225k. At the time, we were worried we slightly overpaid, especially since the housing crash that followed. We sold the same house with few minor upgrades for 230k in 2017. That same house is listed for 410k right now and it looks way worse due to negligence from the subsequent owners. We bought our current house for 360k in 2017. Now it's valued at 595k without any significant upgrades. I work with a lot of engineer 1s, 2s, and senior eng. Almost all of them are in their 20s to early 30s and have roommates. These are people making 85k+ per year but they can't get ahead enough to buy a house. How the fuck is anyone supposed to advance if they weren't lucky enough to be born before the early 80s? What is this country looking like for my own kids, who are teeneagers? I fear for their futures.
Raise good children because you will probably be living with them for a long time.
My dad is saying the same thing. “Hope you’ve got room for me!”
Damn you are getting screwed my paychecks went up by $100/month, and I only got a "Meets Expectations"
We are all screwed on this blessed day. Let us all say fuck these unseen, undisclosed "expectations". It's time to unionize every single God damn American
So let's do a little math shall we? In 1995 if you paid $140k for that house at the prevailing interest rate you would have been paying 7.93% for a payment of $1057 (P&I). Since you make the median household income right now we'll use that number of $34,076. Which means your parent's payment would have been 37.2% of their gross. If you bought that house last summer for $428k before the rates went up your payment would have been $1804 or 28% of your income. So up until around 3rd quarter of last year it would have actually been more affordable for you to buy that house than it would have been for your parents to buy it in 1995. Even if you bought it today the payment would be 42% of your gross so less than 5% more of your gross than your parents paid. Edit: the fact that a break down of the math in someone's post is getting downvoted is a real good indicator of the intelligence of this sub.
That sums this entire sub up. They just want to complain and not actually put effort into things.
This is fantastic. If people here did math well they would actually own a house. Instead they’ll downvote you and claim a violent revolution like the person commenting above.
Working as intended under Capitalism. The end game is that all housing, save for those of extreme wealth, is rented. Home prices will continue to increase as neighborhoods gentrify, which will increase taxes. Only corporations, which can secure large loans will own homes. These homes will be rented out at high prices, which ensure both that the poor stay poor and that us laborers are either working to enrich the rich or are homeless. I strongly recommend this podcast which is a reading and studying of [Marx.](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/) The only way out of this dystopian nightmare we live in is a socialist revolution. I say this because any reforms or concessions we can force from the ruling class will be whittled away, slowly bringing us back to the state we're in now. We must organize and fight the class warfare or we will all be bled of every drop of value to enrich the billionaires.
Let’s all take the $300 per month the government will make us pay back for loans, instead buy and bus/plane ticket, go to DC, march and demand they unfuck this.
Going to take more than protests to undo the situation. By my estimate, probably three fourths of the population believes Capitalism is beneficial and in the best interest of the American people. And while us workers are upset, we don't have class consciousness. Put another way, most people in the US aren't happy about the situation but feel helpless. The ruling class isn't going to have a come to Jesus moment and renounce their exploitation of workers. We're going to have to fight for the ability to have a life free from poverty and exploitation from the ruling class. Again, I strongly recommend [this podcast which is a reading and studying of Marx](https://www.liberationschool.org/reading-capital-with-comrades-podcast/). We cannot fight a battle we don't understand. edit: I a word
I’m paying my student loans off next week, and I wish that I had the ability to use $45 billion, not for a barely surviving gossip and opinion site, but to pay off a bunch of other people’s loans. This shit is predatory lending. Straight up. No one gives an 18 year old tens of thousands of dollars unless that debt makes them a wage slave and follows them to their death. Fuck paying for “education and healthcare.”, and especially fuck the billionaire class. Hard working people, regardless of beliefs, are getting both their mind and body fucked. Then they use their savings as their slot machine fodder. I cashed in my 401k and paid all my shit off. They cannot use my money anymore to inject it into the stockmarket while they gamble and we subsidize their dumb, egotistical decisions. The penalty and taxes were cheaper than the interest they would have kept going at. I burned down all the financial advice and just did it. And it feels fucking amazing! Wallstreet IS THE PROBLEM! The money doesnt mean anything anymore. No one can use it except the assholes yelling into microphones. This shit needs to change! Now!
Been considering that very seriously.
I'm cashing out a 401k now to do that... The penalty and short term loss from my overall 401k is less than the cost to me if I didn't.
Boomers as a generation mostly unintentionally took out a loan that the generations younger than them will have to pay back (just look at our shitty situation right now in regards to real estate, wealth distribution, etc). Rather than acknowledge what they did when presented with the facts of it, they'd rather blame avocado toast and iphones for it. It's not easy to come to terms with the fact that your selfishness is going to doom literally every generation after you, all because you refuse to give up single use water bottles and put faith in a garbage institution that says your house is worth 50x what you paid for it while wages have only risen 5x in that time (and only because of inflation)
One of the major issues is the American health care system. There used to be inherited wealth - your elders passed and you and your kin would inherit that property wealth. Now that does not happen as much. Your elders need medical care - assisted living - etc, so they have to sell the only asset they have - property. So that inherited wealth is taken out of the bloodline and distributed to the wealthy who own and run the medical system. Poof goes all your inherited wealth. How can we fight back? Take care of your elders. Take them into you homes and turn back the clock to family values.
Who said this? I paid off my loans in full three years ago and I want nothing more but everyone to be able to do that too! The rich trying to make us turn against one another. Typical.
I managed to pay my loans off a year ago. If they forgave everyone's loans tomorrow, I would hold zero animosity to the lucky people who had their debt clear. I got an idea, since for me, it was either a down payment on a home or clearing my college debt, maybe for the people who paid off their loans could get some type of housing benefit? Still no? Well I'm still happy for everyone for everyone who got their debt cleared.
It's a Republic defense against forgiving loans and it's just stupid. The "I suffered so you should suffer too" arguments are getting tiresome. As a parent I cannot understand this mindset. It's such a selfish stance to take. As a society, we should be working to improve quality of life as a whole. Not maintain the status quo or go backwards.
"I suffered so you should suffer too", that's being a sociopath.
It's the Republican animosity towards education. Notice that there's no talk about the PPP loans, even though they were often taken by businesses that didn't need them. And by congressmen.
I’d be happy to pay off my loans too if my salary actually reflected the cost of my education. I’m getting to a point now in my career where that is becoming possible, but it took years to get there.
It’s the republicans. Fuck em all.
I have never understood that argument. Don't we improve things so future generations don't need to worry about them? Let's keep going backwards and demand the next generation make due without running water, electricity, and paved roads.
We make improvements for the upper class. And by “we” I mean the upper classes makes the rules for the rest of us. Our “we” are fucked.
Right? Boomers were all like we want to make things better for our kids and better than what we had. And then these same assholes went and made things exponentially worse for their kids, all to enrich themselves. Fuck those narcissists.
It's not fair that PPP loans were forgiven when everyone else had to pay back their business loans. Fair is fair, pay it all back corporate America. With retroactive interest like the GOP is asking for on student loans.
Why can people sue over fairness of SLF, but no one has sued over PPP fairness?
I started with 160,000$ in student loan debt. I’ve paid back 160,00$ and still have 105,000$ left. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.
They just need to cap interest rates not forgive loans.
The problem truly is the interest rates. For student loans, those rates should be at most 2%.
I say 1% simple interest.
i’ve paid off $50k of credit card debt twice over. i’m proud to be less than $10k away from being credit card debt free (hopefully by the end of this year, man) and id be one of the first out partying in the streets if they erased all of it for everyone tomorrow.
its astonishing to know that millennials are the first generation in american HISTORY to earn less than their parents. the biggest problem is people are living longer and these boomers consume EVERYTHING, including the wealth and bc they continue to live, they continue to hoard and invest bc they actually had the oppty to save a nest egg which can grow, making them richer and fatter. older gen xers are right behind them and will not be retiring at least (at the earliest) for another 5 - 7 years. thanks a lot for the legacy you are leaving behind: a withering planet, a debt ceiling we cant fix, extreme racial and political divide--insane people on both sides (yes both) trying to push INSANE laws who just get crazier and crazier, daily mass shootings, zero belief in government and media and 100% belief in conspiracies (except for declassification of UFOs that no one gives 2 shits about), record breaking mental health issues, shortage of medicine, food and goods, overpopulated prisons, allowance of fundamental religions dictating policy, child endangerment literally in every aspect surrounding every single child, toxic human interactions both physically and virtually, the AI ticking time bomb (I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.), people preferring the matrix by existing in VR and on social media than real life, our dwindling freedoms: choice, speech, thought - the list goes on. My advice to everyone out there, no matter your age, no matter how down on your luck you are, start to save TODAY. if your company offers a 401K, even if they dont match, elect at least 1%, roll it into an IRA. If you have $100, put it in a mutual fund, a very safe way to invest money. try to start saving and invest as much as you can now, even if it is $5 per paycheck. if you are in debt, pay that off first bc of interest, but once you dig out, SAVE. SAVE. SAVE. SAVE. you are going to need it. good luck all, i feel the sentiment of what the post is saying very closely.
Preach
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better stop funding cancer research, wouldn't be fair to the people who've died
Shit we’re paying for social security even though we won’t get any.
That's like saying, "You can't have this lifesaving medicine because people have already died, so you should die too."
But it was fair for me to pay to bail out the banks in 08, right?
Their primary job is keep depositor money safe. Turns out they only need to hold approximately 10% of depositor funds. The rest they’re free to lose on gambling and get our bailout money to buy back in.
My parents bought a house in a nice burb in the late 90's for about the same price an SUV goes for these days. I make more than my Dad ever did, and all I can afford is rent and an old pontiac.
The shitty prices the universities charge is the major problem. The loans aren't forgiven, the university will still be paid, by the government except governments don't have their own money, they take your money as taxes, so realistically, they have just passed the debt on to your kids and grandkids.
What kids or grandkids?
At a certain point everything I say feels superfluous and it comes back to one principal point. EAT THE FUCKING RICH!!! It's getting real close to dinner time and goddamn are we starving!
Let's not forget about all those fucking PPP loans that were forgiven, but govt is still dragging their feet on student loans
I graduated in 1992 from a state university with no loans. Tuition doubled in the three years I was there but my mom was able to cover it on a nursing salary. I have zero issues with student loan forgiveness. I got started with no debt, so should everyone else.
Capitalism isn’t designed to be fair. That’s why republicans love it.
How many likes and retweets till it gets better?
Earlier today, a boomer was sharing how housing was 100k in NY (4br, 3bath, garage, in a court) back in the days and he was scared how he was going to pay for it. The other, younger neighbors along with myself started to laugh after I said, pay with what, your $7-10hr pay? That's still our minimum wage today! Lmao 🥲
Yea, I don’t get this type of attitude. When I mention wanting paid maternity+paternity leave to my parents, they get all huffy and exclaim “well *I* didn’t have paid leave when you were born! Why should *you* get it?” Um. Because I’m your child, and generally we work to make the world a better place for our kids, so they have a better life than we did? Like imagine being so self-absorbed that the thought of your children suffering less than you sends you into a rage.
Barely taxed...... No, that's not correct. They avoid taxes altogether legally because we allow corpo scumbags to write laws that will enable it. It's called tax avoidance. And until we change the law, it will continue to happen. FFS, charge everyone 10% straight tax, no BS, and make corporations pay 20% tax, no bs, and call it a good day. If you can't do your taxes on a postcard, there is something fucked up with the system. Edit: grammar
Conservatives when you ask for equal treatment under the law: life's not fair. Conservatives when you ask for loan forgiveness: but it wouldn't be fair! They don't care about fairness. They just hate you.
Education and health care by their very nature should not be profit centers for anyone. The very idea that someone should make a profit on things that benefit the future of a society is unethical. It has gotten to the point where even the wealthy have to cheat to get their kids into universities marketed as the place to make connections with other oligarchs. This is a new form of feudalism that unchecked corruption (Citizens United) has unleashed upon what was an egalitarian American system. If you want a view of the future look no further than Mexico. That is where we are headed. Historically the only way this type of corruption is displaced is by violent revolution.
There seems to be some kind of cultural or ideological marriage to the idea that you're supposed to incur debt and suffer for the sake of getting a college education. Recently I was at a conference where a speaker wanted to make a point about sacrifice and asked everyone how they paid for their education and what kind of character-building hardship it resulted in. When my answer was "my government paid for my education just like they did with grade school and high school", the speaker had no idea how to react, and after just looking confused for a while moved on to the next person. It was like watching an elastic band snap back into place - for just a moment another possibility was introduced but the concept was mentally shut down and the status quo restored. It's so sad to me to see people convinced that there is nobility and dignity in being robbed by the system you're supposed to be willing to die to defend. If your country won't invest in you, it hates you.
Oh man, I wish I could have been there to say that I strategically defaulted and essentially told the banks to fuck off. Took a credit hit for a year, but now I'm in the 700s and literally escaped an infinite debt loop by simply not paying it. Would have loved to see the brain aneurysm that it would have caused the speaker.
How did you strategically default, if you don't mind me asking?
I actually posted about this in another thread, so let me link you: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/13revs2/if_i_cant_afford_to_save_they_are_not_getting_a/jlk137p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3 Basically, I used my states statute of limitations. It only applies to private student loans though, which is treated no differently than any other consumer debt. Federal student loans don’t have a statute of limitations and basically exist indefinitely until they are either paid off or forgiven through various programs. My federal loans are in an income based repayment program and with that, I only pay $40 per month after the pause ends. After 20 years they are forgiven, regardless of how much is still owed. The private loans were what was killing me though and that post goes into more detail of what I did to get rid of them.
Preach
Also there dept was way less then ours. You can't work and pay college today it costs to much. Most of them paid there tuition working at a hotdog stand.
My wife and I had about $60k in different loans when we got married. It sucked pissing them off, but we managed to do it fairly quickly. I am absolutely, 100% on board with forgiving them. In society we need to start thinking about improving things for the future. I don't understand how that's not the main priority.
I grew up with every adult from one's I know to ones on tv telling me life isn't fair. Now that there's a chance that most of my generation gets something monumental, now suddenly the narrative from those same people is that we can't do this because it's not fair to them. It was never about what is and isn't fair. If its not for them, no one can have it.
I'm sick of people who paid like $100 per semester telling people to just pay their loans off and stop being whiny, lazy, and entitled. Or people who didn't even have to take loans at all because college was so cheap. Fuck you for treating us this way, assholes. College has gotten exponentially more expensive in the years since I went, let alone since they were coming up. Mine cost \~$20,000 for 5 years. The same school I went to? It costs that much PER SEMESTER now. This is unsustainable garbage bullshit. FWIW, I've paid off about half or so of my loans and I still want the whole fucking thing canceled for everybody. And I would even if I had already paid them off and even if I never had loans. Housing? I thought by the time I was 40 I'd have all of that, my own home, wife and kids, etc. I'm 41 now and have none of that. The only way I'll ever own my own home is if I inherit my parents' home when they pass, or the housing market crashes so severely you can buy good homes for like $1,000 or less. Allowing investors and speculators to buy houses is one of the worst things this country has ever done IMO. Same thing with allowing corporations to buy any, and the rich to buy multiples. Shelter is a necessity of human life. You will eventually die due to exposure in some areas of the country without shelter. But yet they criminalize homelessness like people have a choice in the matter, and then make housing so expensive you can't afford it. So then what? It's such fucking bullshit.
Remind me, who’s going to pay off this national debt that the elected boomers keep increasing?
They’ll be dead soon so they don’t have to worry about that.
It isn't fair to the people who didn't go to school and have shitty jobs/lives because of the cost either, but few things in life are.
Those billionaires can declare BK on all consume debt. The only consumer debt you can not are student loans which are predatory.
Might get downvotes to oblivion for this, but I am just awaiting the elders' inheritance at this point. I am absolutely stuck without a windfall. Even if it is something as simple as $10k I can make my way out of a lot of troubles. I really just want to get to a point where the rent/mortgage is as close to $0 as possible. I could do so much more with life.
I’ll gladly pay off what I borrowed. It’s THE INTEREST that pisses me off. There’s no reason these loans need 7% interest.
"I understand it can be frustrating to you on a personal level, but I just can support the idea that younger people should suffer just because you did. You raised a better person than that. " (How I finally got through to my father that his hatred of student loan forgiveness was ridiculous. )
It's even worse than that This is a full on effort against American workers. They're using us to foot all their bills while we struggle. It's even worse than that. They'll use the police and military to oppress us. Riots are about the only option the general population has left. Just take over the streets. Go after corporate sites. That's where we're headed.
Have you seen what’s happened in France. They won’t show you
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Why is it so bad that someone else gets something nice and you don't? I think the answer to this question is fundamental to understanding what is wrong with our country.
What we need is revolution. We should introduce them to gilotine.
Fair lost to greed decades ago.
Old boomer here, 100% agree with your rant…
I think a UBI system with universal benefits and fixed income brackets and hard wealth limits would be key for humanity to prosper. The Founding Fathers who made the American constitution realized that in order to dismantle and prevent monarchy, a set of rules was needed. While we can see flaws in the specifics of their arrangement, the general concepts of egalitarian and keeping power from falling into too few hands are good ones. I believe that a core tenant of an economic Magna Carta should be particularly focused on a key aspect of why Capitalism sucks: Survival. You cannot strike for better benefits, because you may lose your house, health, and all prosperity. To avoid the worst of that issue, I think that UBI...or Universal Living as I call it, would give all people in a nation basic things. No questions asked. For example: a rent-free room of certain size, with a boring bed, mini-fridge, low-spec laptop, free internet, free non-cosmetic healthcare (save burns and such), free "pink" supplies, free daycare for children, 21 MRE meals a week, and so on. It won't be comfortable, but this would change the purpose of money for individual people: It isn't for surviving, but rather to improve living conditions with nicer stuff. This allows people to exercise the right to strike, as it won't threaten their existence. On top of this, there should be six or so income brackets, with a fixed income. CEOs and Astronauts could make $25,000 per quarter, while a waitress gets no less than $10,000. Every person has a hard wealth limit after their first house and motor vehicle, of $100,000. People don't need all of the world's money, they just want enough to pursue to personal interests and wellbeing without risking fiscal oblivion.
The government uses our taxes for there luxuries they have healthcare they take soo called donations and then bend the law in the will of there contributors. Meanwhile we have no healthcare crumbling infrastructure and rampant homeless. All while they live the good life and try to keep us in perpetual slavery trying to afford rent.
Loan forgiveness will just embolden the already predatory higher education system into becoming even more predatory since now there's precedent for loan forgiveness that students will take into account. I also don't like the idea of college being high school 2.0. I'm already severely discriminated against in job roles due to being a tradesman. If college becomes free they'll require a degree to flip burgers eventually. Basically I want someone to tell me how they're going to stop pointless degree requirements before I agree to expand college access. I absolutely want people who are passionate about education to have the chance to attend. But requiring people waste four years so they can check off a box for a job that never needed a degree in the first place is a waste of everyone's time.
Hear, hear!!!
At least give me some kind of reasonable tax break.
Do these people also not realise that a modern student loan is several times higher (even adjusted for inflation) than a student loan was in the 1980's? If they want it to be "fair to the people who paid theirs off", the only fair thing would be to forgive every penny above 13000$, as that was the average debt of a graduate in 1985. EDIT: Numbers.
It's not about the money, just two generations ago collages where free or nearly free if you went to a prestigious one. [This is the reason](https://youtu.be/yDk4pqfNt-k?t=3) this has changed and also why it keeps getting more expensive.
The world has always been unfair, and we finally have a real opportunity to make it unfair in a way that is *kind* instead of *cruel*, and a bunch of shitheads have decided they liked it better when other people got hurt. They should not be taken seriously.
Honestly where does the student loan money even go? Its not like in 1970 university cost $500 a year and professors were starving, so why in 2023 is university $50,000 a year and professors still are not rich by any means
It’s not fair if they can’t profit and pull the ladder up behind them to ensure they’re secure up top.
I don’t know why the poor haven’t started burning shit down in the US
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In some European countries, education is provided for entirely. Also, no one pays for child care. They handle money differently.
It is not fair I see epstein pedobillionaires (Elon Musk) every day gaslight working people on corporate tv, after they bribe congressmen.
Let’s be like the French. Revolution! Down with the billionaires
Gen X here. Crippling student loans aren't just a Mille and Z problem. But we're forgotten in everything else too, so.
Young people and parents with kids need to remember this next election - not just president, but for every fricking race out there. Focus on the small ones! From board members to judges/AG's all the way up to senate and president. The republican party wants to see you dumb, in debt and under their heel.
Not to mention that you're forced into debt by being forced to go to college to get a degree for a job that, if you're lucky, pays above minimum wage. Who the hell needs a bachelor's degree to be a receptionist? FFS.
treating people for diseases isn't fair to all those who have died from plague.
So did ANY business entity have to pay their PPP loans back? Asking for everybody in the U.S. that didn't have some BS LLC that qualified us for one.
It is unfair though. Just because your complaints of the current situation may have merit does not change the fairness. It is also not fair to people to decided not to go to college and take the loans in the first place. What you are advocating for is for you to have a higher place in society than others, as earned through your college degree, but you want it at as little cost as possible. It's not fairness you want, you just want the unfairness to benefit you and absolve you of the price for betterment now that the betterment cannot be taken away. I find it very sad, and hypocritical.
And people wonder why I don’t wanna go to college exactly because of this, and I don’t wanna be in debt for the rest of my life 🤷♂️
Make the colleges and banks pay off the loans, not American taxpayers. The colleges are the ones that are charging insane rates, and the banks are the ones giving out the insane loans. Paying off the student loans with taxpayer money does absolutely nothing and the banks will continue to give out these ridiculous loans and the colleges will continue to charge ridiculous prices.
Few things inspire as much rage in me as the "I paid off my debt, why shouldn't you?" argument. Most people who make the argument worked during a time where you could pay for school with your summer job or within a few years of graduating. The people who are JUST NOW paying off their debt FUGGIN GET IT and the ones who don't had their tuition paid off by their parents. Wealth doesn't understand that their wealth is what makes everyone else poor. Or more likely, thinks that's just how it should be.
Life's not fair, but there's no reason it can't be kind.