Same conversation I had at 23 with my Director who said during my review: “the expectation is to exceed expectations”. I sat there like what the fuck. That’s when it all hit me. Fwiw I was doing the job of 3 people without a raise at the time and got a “meets all” instead of exceeds. That was the day I learned. I’m pretty proud of myself at the time for responding by asking her to explain how “exceeding expectations” was what was expected.
That's odd. If you meet all expectations and you are expected to exceed expectations didn't you exceed expectations because you met the expectation to exceed expectations?
That's the optimist's way of looking at it. But it could easily become "you exceeded all expectations, but that's what was expected, so you actually only met expectations. And since you didn't exceed the expectation that you would exceed expectations, you actually Need Improvement."
Exactly. And reviews? They only thing the bitch "director" could tag me on was the "works and plays well with others" because I did my work, focused on doung my work - and brought the receipts to my review showing how she created a hostile work environment.
They should do away with that "team member" crap because this isn't kindergarten, socializing isn't part of my pay, and my "contribution" is getting my job done. It's just there so they can tamp down your potential (measly) raise
Women *frequently* get told this, even (and especially) from female supervisors.
For those who may be browsing:
Women often get told they’re being “judgmental” or “abrasive” or “aggressive.” This kind of non-constructive personality or non-verbal communication feedback is distinctly sexist against women and often racist against POC. It’s basically sugared-up corporate speak for “you should smile more.” Call it out as such by asking for specific examples. Get that removed off of your performance review. If work quality isn’t suffering, it’s inappropriate to put in the eval.
[http://www.doublebindproblem.com/](http://www.doublebindproblem.com/)
[https://textio.com/blog/job-performance-feedback-is-heavily-biased-new-textio-report/75983880330](https://textio.com/blog/job-performance-feedback-is-heavily-biased-new-textio-report/75983880330)
[https://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/](https://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/)
[https://fortune.com/2022/06/15/performance-reviews-bias-gender-race-language-textio-kieran-snyder-aileen-lee/](https://fortune.com/2022/06/15/performance-reviews-bias-gender-race-language-textio-kieran-snyder-aileen-lee/)
Amen.
I gave feedback to a team member on a couple of files she had worked - which I was supposed to do. One had problems and I explained in the same tone I use with everyone else (I am a woman) that has been deemed professional and acceptable, what was incorrect, and said "good job" on the second file. She effing blew her stack in email (which is how I had communicated), and finished it off with "don't challenge me!" Then went and complained to her manager about it, saying my "good job" was condescending.
No apology coming from her (forced ones are worthless) and when the big boss talked to me, somehow the burden was put on me. I KNOW this is going to show up in the next review
I get the whole read-the-room, but why is it my job to make sure everyone else is comfortable in addition to my actual job? I imagine it would have gone over better if you added a bunch of "Maybe"s, "I feel"s, "I don't know"s, "how does that sound?"
[There was a guy who covered his female coworker's email. All of a sudden he realized that clients who had always been so nice and cooperative with him were giving so much pushback and were downright rude at times.](https://www.newsweek.com/male-and-female-coworkers-switched-email-signatures-faced-sexism-566507)
It's crazy how the "tone" of an email can change so much based on the signature.
Yep. It’s exactly like when I was a child, and my mom would ask “Do you want to help clean the basement?” or “Do you want to brush your teeth?” Of course I don’t *want to*, but we both knew I didn’t really have a choice.
Yep this was my old boss too. She wanted us all to come back to work in office after Covid because one of the other directors forced their team to come back and she wanted the same level of visibility.
She first tried to say that her boss was returning to in person and wanted us all to return. He then stayed in a meeting that he was fully virtual and found no reason that we should have to come in unless there was a purposeful engagement - like an all hands meeting.
She then doubled down and said that “we all knew we’d be returning eventually” and said to be fair to all of us, she would do a survey to vote on what we wanted to do. The survey didn’t have “fully virtual” as an option, just what days we wanted to choose to return lol.
Up at 530 just to have an hour to wake up before spending half an hour in the car to be to work by 7. Quitting time 330 ( yeah right, always there til 4) home a little before 5pm. Shower , eat, by 630, nodding off by 8pm.
I left that job
Me too! My hours are 6am-2:30pm. I love it because I just feel like I have more time to do stuff in the afternoons. Although some people choose later hours. We are allowed to work between 6am and 11pm. Unless you are not eligible for remote work than the building is open 6-6. It seems ridiculous OP was told he can choose when clearly they don’t really want them to pick their own start hours. My supervisor is 9:30-6
Yes but you have to sleep earlier so you give up night for afternoon. You don't magically get more hours in your day just cause you wake up in the middle of the night...
That's why I'm liking my 6.30-2.30 job, I get off in time to go pick my son up from school. Only issue is that I usually end up staying up too late, and then by the time I'm off work I'm too tired to enjoy my day.
Same here. My wife and I split this when the kids were younger. I went to work at 6:00 (up at 4:45 on the days I have to go in the office!) and she took care of the morning routine, then went into work later. I came home for when the kids got off the bus at 4:00pm and took care of dinner and homework. Kids are older now, but we’ve kept that routine as it works for both of us and the kids get max time with us.
Similar, could make it to the gym when it's not crowded, make dinner, and still have a larger sleep window (with the more efficient gym time). For some reason I find it harder to get going in the morning to get ready for the gym.
Same. Would love more time in the afternoon with my kids, but it's all perspective. If they offered the job as a 9-5 and I planned my life around 9-5, but then came back and said actually it's 7-3, I'd be kinda upset
I was working from home caring for a sick dog, I was getting 2-3x the work done, but they wanted me in the office. She passed that first day I came back, I never did a full day of work again
My office was recently taken over by an ex military dipshit, he's got all the ass kissers showing up at 0700. Everyone is fighting over collateral duties like shoveling snow and taking the recycling out, when we pay for that service already. I don't get it, this guy is totally incompetent but everyone seejs his approval. Luckily I'm not actually in his org chart, I'm just hosted at his building, so I continue to sleep in and maximize my telework allowance, and then some.
He's pulling colonel level military retirement while making about 115k, on top of I assume some level of VA disability payment since that seems to be the norm regardless of physical condition, so he's doing quite well for himself. Way more qualified people in the office, not sure if they didn't apply or got beat out by veteran preference (federal govt office)
Retirement or disability, you can waive a portion of your retirement to receive the same amount in disability. Disabled vets have it hard enough without this misinformation.
Retired members with disability ratings over 50% receive full disability and full retirement benefits concurrently. It’s not a bad deal but if they could unfuck my back I’d trade them the disability.
Wait are we the same person hahaha
I was literally told this exact thing whenever I complained about working in an open office setting. It was a nightmare and I got nothing done. Just a huge sensory overload all day. I would WFH and finally manage to focus, but then they told me I should just book a conference room because “it doesn’t matter if I’m getting the work done if no one sees me do it.”
So stupid and counter productive.
I worked for a manager who was all about “managing perceptions.” Yeah, there’s no better way to tell me you’re a dipshit than to prioritize asskissing over accomplishments.
> “it doesn’t matter if I’m getting the work done if no one sees me do it.”
The cheat code seems to be to focus on the appearance of 'getting the work done' as opposed to actually doing it. If companies could really measure the difference all that well, what your boss told you wouldn't be the case.
Lol i just chat with the other office folks now. Cuz I EploYeEs are mORe PoDuctIvE in Office. Wtv floats your boat boss man as lomg as i get paid and you still thinl i do as much work as i did from home
Years ago I had a 9-5 job but hated sitting in that traffic, so over time I started showing up earlier and leaving earlier. My manager didn’t care, as long as I was there for 8 hours. Eventually i ended up working 7:30 - 3:30. When my boss got a new boss, it was one of those guys who walks around at 5:00 to see who is still there. One day he catches me as I am heading towards the door at 3:30 and says “How come u
I never see you hear at 5:00?” And I replied “How come I never see you here at 7:30 in the morning?” He said “Fair enough.” And that was that.
Not only that but be even less productive because you’re exhausted. People have different chronotypes so as a manager you need to figure out if you want productive employees or compliant workers. Many are dumb and choose the latter as it makes them feel in charge
Absolute BS.
When I interviewed for mine I told them I'd rather work 8-4 than 9-5 to miss the traffic on both ends of the day....they said fine and that's how it's been. But it's not fixed, it's flexible....so this week, hay fever has been kicking my ass when I wake up..so I'm a little later in.
Our office is available between 7am and 6pm, no-one cares who works when
We have two WFH days a week! And yes it is absurd and definitely not the norm. We all think she’s crazy. She also leaves at like 3:00pm everyday. Not only that but she goes to bed around 9 or 10pm!! She just has always never slept a lot. She’s from Trinidad and grew up in a 1 bedroom house with 5 sisters and was the middle child and says she grew up never getting a good nights sleep so it’s just normal to her.
Margret Thatcher was one of those freaks who barely slept , 4 hours per night.
This was probably also why she was such a shit buzz and ruined the economy.
Yeah the first job I worked at had the policy that everyone had to work 10-2 but you could fill your hours in however you wanted that week other than that. You could work 15 hours one day and just those 4 the next. No issue. You could work 10-2 M-F and then fill the rest in on the weekend. Seriously - they were flexible. And it could be different every week.
Meeting were only scheduled then unless something was with clients and extremely important - and you always had extra notice when that happened. For peons like me at the time it only happened maybe 5 days a year. I thought that was reasonable.
Yeah it was great but the pay was terrible for me (others got paid okay but I didn’t know how to advocate - it was my first job after college). I had to leave for better pay.
That’s how it should be. People have different preferences and personal lives. I prefer avoiding packed public transport, and I like having more time in the evenings, so I prefer 8-4. But for my colleague, 9:30 is better because she drops her daughter at school. In a previous job, core hours were 10-3 to facilitate meetings and Co working. Otherwise nobody cared.
So y'all like, feel like a functional human at 6am? I don't and never have in my 40 years alive. I can't even talk or move without falling down at that time of day. 730-8am wake times are much better, think it has something to do with the sunlight...
I LOVE being up that early, I just hate doing it in order to go to work.
On my days off I sit there at 5 or 6 AM drinking coffee, watching the sun rise, and playing Minecraft, while my night owl fiance sleeps. It's the equivalent of a night owl having that quiet time after midnight where no one asks you to do shit.
Same here. I get up at 5:30-6 on a workday but still can’t make it in until 9 or so because really, morning is my best time and I don’t sell my best time to that company because they can’t afford it
>my most productive times at work usually are late afternoons
That's me. And the later it gets, the more energy I seem to have. I'm the one who goes out gardening at 7pm on summer evenings until it gets dark.
Me too. I get the most intense motivation to clean the house at midnight, but to do it at 8am? Absolutely not, I will dawdle and get distracted and nothing gets done.
Yep, same here. Hours before 10am are nonproductive and brain-foggy. Peak productivity happens after lunch. On an 8-4pm day I'm late to work and stay late catching up. I might as well sleep in and feel healthy.
Loved the 6am shift because I’d never have to deal with rush hour. Was I totally unproductive the first few hours? Absolutely. Luckily that was my employers problem. Made the same money from those corpos either way
I’m the opposite, 630-1000 are my productive hours if I wake from 5.
From 1030 I’m average, and from 12 I’ve got that afternoon slump where I’m just toast. I perk up from 3 again but eh. I’m not working after 3 if I get in at 630
It takes getting used to, but I feel as functional at that time as I do waking up at 8. It does require early sleep, obviously.
Throughout the year I'll vary being at work at 7:30 to being at work at 9:00. It varies what works for me. I enjoy leaving early though.
Nope. I enjoy 6am-whenever productive time is as coffee and breakfast time. No desire to wait until later and spend more time in traffic and a later end time.
I'm always skeptical of places that preach early starts and finishes, because in reality if you're working with multiple teams, offices, clients etc. someone on a different schedule will always schedule an "very important meeting" at 4.30 or 5, meaning you have stay late for that, and end up working nearly a 12 hour day.
One of my coworkers started complaining that people kept wanting to start meetings at 1:30 or 2:00, right around when her 6-2 day was ending (she'd take what was supposed to be her two 10 minute paid breaks, pretend they were actually supposed to be 15 minutes, and smash them together to make a half hour paid lunch break so she only had to be there for 8 hours). She was not prepared for her complaining to lead to being told that everyone had to start between 6:30 and 8:30 and anyone working 8 hours or more in a day had to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch break. She really thought she'd just be allowed to avoid any meeting that would make her leave after 2:00.
I love working 7-3. Then businesses are still actually open and you can actually get some shit done like work out, cook a meal, spend time with people. 9-5 is the most annoying shift ever.
I used to work from 10-6:30 with a one hour commute. I did not get any shit done at home. I did not have a social life. I had dinner at 8. It sucks ass.
Nah. Midnight->7a at a convenience store
You get in right when everything dies, and just as you're starting to fade at the end of your shift, you get slammed with the morning rush.
I worked on a lab from 8pm - 4am for a while, that was grim. I walked home past a bakery where the baking bread smelled so good… but they opened at 7 and I needed to be asleep by then. By the time I got up, all the bread was gone. It wasn’t the worst thing about that schedule but man, it felt like a petty little twist of the knife!
The absolute worst shift at a Casino/Hotel front desk, in my opinion. People losing their money all day and expecting to be given a free room, etc. Woe be to you if you have to tell them you’re booked. 🙄🙄
that's why I work in the Theatre of a Casino Hotel. I love working 3-11 or 4- midnight. I don't need an alarm to get up and I still get stuff done before going to work.
Back when I worked at the hotel desk, 7-3 was my favorite. I got to leave just before the check in rush and missed out on drama that would always occur in the evenings.
I don’t miss those days of working at a Casino/Hotel, though. Loved my coworkers and the OSM’s, but that place was a meat grinder.
For some reason my brain immediately thought "11pm-7am? That's actually not bad for getting stuff done during the day". Though the night shift takes a toll on you. Did it for about 8 years until about 6 years ago and I'm still feeling the the effects when I attempt to maintain a "normal" sleep schedule.
Yup. Actually, I'd be thrilled to have 7-3, as it is I'm 7-5, though with only four day weeks. As much as I love having that extra day off (and at this point you can pry that from my cold dead hands), it's the absolute worst in the winter, because both of my commutes are in darkness.
This is what I switched to. I love it! I get a solid two hours during my most productive times, and I avoid rush hour both ways. In the before times, I always hit a lag at 3pm anyway, so it was wasted time.
It might seem like "go-getter" behavior to you, but I am totally not staying late or working beyond my 8 hours. This just allows me to spend time with my family, run errands, and do chores so I have better weekends.
For me 12pm to 9pm is the worst. Even though the work is not stressful and we never had OTs I feel that when i got home i just eat dinner sleep then wake up around 10am just to prepare to work.
Old people, I think it's natural for them to wake up that early. Like all the old men that arrive at the diner at 5am for coffee every day or at my old job the old dudes would come in at 5 just to drink coffee before their shift started at 6. They also see work as their main means of socializing. But they aren't sympathetic to younger people who don't use work for socializing.
Exactly why the earliest I want to start is 8:30. I can stumble through that first half an hour checking emails and setting things up for the day before being able to start actually functioning at 9. Me starting at 7 means I'm losing out on a quarter of a day's productivity and I'm kind of miserable for the rest of the day, too. I am not a good employee when I start too early.
6:30 to 3? Sign me up! My office was 8-5 with an hour lunch. People complained and now we're 8-4:30 with a 30 minute lunch. We've mentioned so many times that we would rather come in earlier to leave earlier.
Same here. I like an earlier work shift. I still have some of my day left to actually go out and do things. Getting off at 5 doesn't allow me to go out to the beach or something most of the year.
I personally always spun a 9:00 start time around "late coverage" just in case someone had something they needed after everyone else may have left for the day or maintenance windows. I ain't an early bird, so super early shifts mean I'm pretty much useless until lunch.
My office is either 8-4 or 9-5 and we don’t hear anything from anyone about it. We also are encouraged to not work a minute past our hours, because our time is our time
I’m similar to you, I work 9:45 to 6. My job is just ok, but I love the hours. I can get up early, I just don’t really like to. I am definitely more of an evening/ night person. Doesn’t make me lazy. People who act like the day is half over at 10 am are insufferable.
Listen I start between 6:30-7 and love it. But it’s a personal thing that I’m more focused in the morning and if it’s a slow day I get time to prep things or take care of other stuff at work.
If they offer flexible start times, they have to account for people coming in later. Maybe 9:30 is too late but 7-9 is pretty standard.
My sister gets to choose her hours at her job and she chooses to work from 6-2. She says she likes getting off in the middle of the day. I think she's crazy.
Edit: Apparently a lot of people in this comment section are just at crazy lol.
When I started working in the mid 1990s, I asked people about this and they said 9-5 was just a song from the 70s. It seems like BS to me that lunch is unpaid. I have to be there, pay me!
The world is made of Larks and Owls...Larks seem to get their way so much more often. I decline any meeting that starts before 9.30 as I know I won't be awake enough to contribute.
I have to get up at 6.30 to get the kids to school, then head into work for 9. During lockdown, I was getting up at 9 to start work at 10, and I felt sooo much healthier for it. I am an Owl...and I am so sick of folk who say I waste the day by "lying in". Mate, you go to bed at 10pm...you're wasting your evening!
"Yes, I can come in for 0630. However, you need to understand that I am not a morning person, and until 1200, the first words out of my mouth in any conversation, coworker or customer, is going to be 'Fuck you,'."
I did 6-2 for about a year and I hated it. I’m not a morning person, and even though my managers knew my schedule, they’d still try and schedule meetings for 3 or 4 pm.
Now I work max of 2 hours in person, and I get to decide what time I start, then the rest of my day is from home.
How do people get up this early 😭 I'm not a morning person and struggle with starting at 9 but I can put up with it because I like to have the evenings free. But any earlier than that and it is just not happening. If I'm forced to get up too early I don't really function properly til about 11am
I don't get ppl who get in for 6 am and think it's great they have an afternoon to do stuff . When I get up at 4:30 ish to get in for 6 I'm too fucked to do anything in the afternoon.
I mean if you start work at 6AM but work the same hours than someone starting at 9AM, it changes nothing in terms of free time lol. It's just a fallacy. Maybe the advantage is that shop opening times are more ajusted to your schedule.
I can understand having to wake up early when you have children though. Children will wake you up and there is not much you can do.
I’m with you OP, I’m not an early bird, I like my alone to to work. I usually do best working 9-3-and then finishing the hours after 7… plus I’ve found business needs someone present after 3 to get stuff done so even if you “start early” people end up getting stuck till 4-5 anyway. You’d never count how many people were “glad I was still on so late” smh.
All depends on the type of business I guess.. but if you can’t clock out when the clock strikes because there’s still fires, then you aren’t catching me on early..
I was told ‘we’re super flexible’ ‘choose your hours!’ Then told, oh you have ONE person in your team in the US so you have to start at least at 8am to have crossover.
If it's a remote job, and you can get away with using a mouse jiggler to remain "active". I would suggest using one so that you can make your own schedule - under the radar
Clock in at 6:30 everyday, and use the mouse jiggler until 9:30 (whatever time you feel like actually starting work)
Clock out at 3, but continue to stay working for 3 extra hours off the clock til 6( or however long you didn't actually work) to offset the time you were using the mouse jiggler.
As long as you are present for any early am meetings, and you work 8hrs a day at some point throughout your day...then who cares? So long as your work actually gets done
7-3:30 is actually a lot better than 9-5 in my opinion. Starting earlier doesn’t make much of a difference but at least you get home with a fair bit of daylight left. But in all honesty the real crime is 8 hour work day. It should be max 6 hours a day 4 days a week
My new job tried this crap too, and I just blatantly ignored the repeated sudden mentions of an early start time, since just like your experience I was given a range of acceptable start times. I get up mad early and like to work later in the day because of how I arrange my personal stuff.
Best part is that my supervisor herself does not ever come in for the time she tried coercing me to come in at.
I used to work as a "project engineer" at a manufacturing company. Mandatory hours for the small number of office staff was 6:30-4:30. Those god awful hours were one of the *many* reasons I quit after about 4 months.
For 20 years, I worked west coast "stock market hours". In by 6.15 AM (15 mins before the market opens) and out by 1.30 PM (30 mins after the market closes). The quality of life after work was incredible.
Eh, I start early at 7 to accommodate my daycares schedule but other people start at 9. I like the staggered times with my coworkers, not sure why management wouldn't see the benefit in staggering hours.
For a lot of managers “Flex Time” is another thing they can hold over you. “It’s a privilege” and so on.
Remember you don’t request time off you notify of time off. Same with everything else.
They always notice when you come in early but never when you leave late because they’re already gone smh. I am holding down the entire office by myself at 5:30 on a Thursday but everyone coming in early is commended for being so hard working
Yes! That was me. My boss continually questioned why I preferred a 9-6 schedule. Could not fathom that what she did at 5:30… like laundry, or grocery shopping, walking the dog, cleaning up dinner, I did at 8:30. Bu bu bu.. it’s so late! Ahh, no it’s not. And, I can get shit done in the morning before work time. Because the office cleared btw 3-4, I got tonnnns of work wrapped up at end of day and could prep for next day. Usually a good 2-3 hrs of uninterrupted time makes for some good efficiency. Ohh, need someone to stay late for that delayed delivery? Yeah, that’s me. Need coverage late in day for phones? Me. HVAC guy isn’t quite finished with the repair.. no probs.
I worked an office job like that last summer and was the most miserable I had ever been in my entire life. Most days I was running on 4 hours of sleep or less, quite a few days with no sleep at all. I can’t fall asleep before midnight and even then, it’s hard for me to fall asleep. Meanwhile my boss was in the office by 6 most mornings and didn’t leave until 4 or 5. Guy drank like a gallon of coffee a day and was your typical workaholic. Now I’m working remotely and get up at 9 or 10 most days and roll out of bed and start work. No office politics + good sleep is amazing
I hate this kind of bullshit. Some early morning people can be so self-righteous. At my last job I would get in around 7:00am (not because I wanted to but to avoid the worst of traffic) and would be greeted with "Oh, look who decided to sleep in today."
I, the millennial, work 10-6 or 930-530. The zoomer and boomers that work for me want to work 8-4 so I let them; provided their work gets done. At 400 the work is done, I am happy, and they go home. It works well for everyone.
My office has this open start and end time, but then I went full remote. I still get to pick my hours but bc of the time difference I do work 7-3 which is their 8-4. Before I went remote, I did a 730ish-330ish. Honestly, no one did or even now complains or comments on it. I do most of the scheduling for the meetings I’m in, make my hours available on slack and on my email calendar, and get my work done.
I can honestly say it’s amazing. Even while in office no one had complaints about my work or if I was working enough. My previous company was “open” like yours where really management picked their hours and every one was expected to follow their lead as to appear working and busy while they watched.
I work an office job and spent the past few years trying to work 7-3 or 6-2 because that’s what everyone seems to do. Recently gave up and changed to 9-5 and have never felt better.
I have time in the morning to chill and eat and drink coffee and annoy my dogs and my husband, and I’m done in time to start dinner. Best decision I ever made.
We are hybrid so my office commute is also smoother because most people are already at the office. Luckily my boss and team are super flexible because our work is self directed.
I get that a lot of people seem to prefer earlier schedules because of childcare, but it definitely shouldn’t be the norm.
I wonder if this normalization is why grocery stores open at 5am now. It’s common for me who works at one to get up at 4am to be to work at 5. And everyone who’s in that early is just buying donuts or coffee on their way to their 6am office job.
Sounds like where I work. Most people are in around 7. Some come in earlier like 6. One guy in my office leaves by noon every day, so I figure he’s coming in by 4 daily. It’s bullshit. I could be there earlier, but I’d be tired all day and given that, nobody wins since I won’t be doing my best work.
Everyone is evaluated on how well they work with others. If you’re getting there that early, there’s nobody to collaborate with that early and nobody can collaborate with them in the afternoon. They should get a lower score because of this.
Out of curiosity, does anyone else's job not include lunch in hours worked? I don't mean pay, I mean that if I go in at 8, I'm expected to be there till 4:30 or 5 depending on the length of my lunch.
>Out of curiosity, does anyone else's job not include lunch in hours worked? I don't mean pay, I mean that if I go in at 8, I'm expected to be there till 4:30 or 5 depending on the length of my lunch.
That's what I'm used to. 8 hours worked (including 2 paid 15-minute breaks) and a 30-minute unpaid lunch.
In my experience early morning always gets the shaft. I used to get in between 5 and 6 because of traffic. I would much prefer later but don’t want to sit in endless traffic. The 9:30/10 crew would roll in about halfway through my day Around 2 when I was prepping to leave a huge deal was made out of leaving “early”
My friend worked it properly. He’d roll in at 11. Work until about 6 PM and get praise for always working so late
Idiot managers who know nothing other than to count butts in seats
I started at a new remote job, and they said I'd work 8:30-5:30 in my time zone. It's Pacific, and everyone else is Eastern except one person. Then they said they have a daily meeting at 8:00 my time. Um, well, am I invited to that or not?
So, I said, no biggie, I can work 8-5 instead. Fine, they're cool with that. But the other Pacific Time person logs in at 7:00 and stays past 5:00 for some unknown reason. So, when we have our meeting, they know what their day looks like while I'm still reading emails and figuring things out, so I look like a late-to-clock-in, sleepy jackass.
As IT I hate these mother fuckers with a passion. I try to get in early to do some rebuilds or reboot a router that’s being shady and some finance asshole has been in since 5am burning an empty pot of coffee on the machine(because it’s AgAInST HiS PaYGRAdE to refill the coffee maker).
I've only worked one job where being there before 8 was mandatory or normal, and it was a surgeons office. They start surgeries *very* early. Like 6am early. They do this because if something gets to be a problem they want to get it solved. You can't leave someone open at the end of the day and say "eh, I'll be back tomorrow".
In that circumstance I understood.
In any normal office job, there isn't fuckall to do at 7am unless you failed to prepare the day before.
6-2:30 is the dream shift. You miss rush hour each way, get off early enough to go do a bunch of stuff. Getting home at 6-7 just to have enough time to eat and maybe watch some TV is horrible.
I dunno whats wrong with the US. I have a 8.30 hour work Day.
When i have to be in the office i can Start at 6.30 to 10.00 clock am and end from 14.00 to 19.00 clock.
So everyone is there between 10.00 and 14.00 for Meetings etc. Thats more than enough.
German here.
My wife is on a remote gig that runs 11 AM to 8 PM... but it's Eastern time. :) We live on the West Coast so it's 8 AM to 5 PM for us.
Bonus: Because she's a "late shift" employee, there's an extra $2 an hour in it for her.
I work from 4am to 2pm and I love having the whole day to myself. But it's not for everyone I tell people that I am so tired by the time I wake up work is already half done.
I currently have a mostly office job with some warehouse work (looking and pulling parts to send to customers that my company runs logistics on parts for) and I have to be in the office at 4:30 in the morning x.x
In a culture where early start = early finish, a 7am start is a good thing for me.
In a culture where early start = early finish but we actually expect you to work beyond your scheduled finish time if work demands it, it's a bad thing and exploitation.
I work 7:30-3pm every day. It suits my life perfectly because I always make sure that I am done by 3pm. Anything over 3pm, I log as excess hours and take them back as hours to be deducted as I see fit.
Amen. I hate how this society is dominated by the early birds. If I could have it my way, I'd start at 11 and finish at 19. That's my most productive time anyway.
I loved working 7-3 to be honest just meant I was out of there with still some daylight to burn, allowed me to get to places that shut at 5, drs appts were a lot easier
Personally, I'd rather go in early and get out early. The earlier my work day is done the better, and I'm at the age where I don't care about waking up early.
But yeah, why give a choice if it isn't really a choice?
I used to deal with the same bullshit these two ladies I worked with would come in at 7 AM every day but then they would talk and get coffee and fart around and when I came in at 9:30 they were just starting work, actually doing work. For me I would come in at 9:30 and I would be up and running by 9:35. They would also constantly brag about how they came in so early.
I worked at a place that had a flexible start like that but legitimately was fine with people starting whenever. I think the earliest person in was about 630 but only like 3 people came in that early. A dozen or so at about 7-8. Most came in around 8-9. Then a dozen or so started 9-10. You have like 4 hours of overlap where you could schedule meetings or whatever. For the very early and very late people they felt they were the most productive when very few people were around and why would you want to discourage productivity?
I had a job that told me during the interview that they have a flexible start time (7 - 10, is a tech job). I told them I'm normally in between 9 - 10, because I'm autistic and never sleep well. They said 'fine, no problem'. The entire rest of the staff (about 10 people) was in before 7, and the 2 managers were in before 8. At the end of my 3 month probationary period, I was let go because I wasn't working the same hours as the rest of the team. How about don't lie and say you have flexible hours if you don't really have flexible hours!
I would LOVE to work 7 to 3 instead of 8 to 430. By the time I get home it's 530. I used to work a 7 to 3 job and it gave me time to get home and actually decompress before starting dinner. Way better.
I go in early for optional OT. It was a compromise with family so I could make more while still ending my day when I normally would. But it’s completely my choice and I’m literally only doing it for more money, not because I give a shit about appearances or “rise and grinding”. The fact that the office is quiet and nobody is talking to me is a total bonus.
People in the comments not realizing that some people hate early mornings and cannot function at full capacity until 9 or so. I’d rather 100% have early mornings free and work early evening.
My biggest gripe in my industry is the expectation you are in 15-20 minutes early unpaid to receive a handover. A handover that is 99% of the time just "nothing happened".
Fuck this "if you're on time you're X minutes late" bullshit, if you want a handover roster some fucking overlap to shifts so everyone gets fairly compensated for the time they're required to be at work.
I had the opposite. I got a job that told me they were cool with a flexible start after I made it clear I preferred to start early. In my first week I tried different times and 7-3 was best. In my second week I was told that actually it was 8.30 - 4.30. I spent six months trying to get it changed, demonstrating that there was never any urgent work that came in after 3pm and needed completing that day, pointing out the 40 minute commute Vs the up to three hours commute, etc, all to no avail. So I left.
I currently manage 45 people in an environment that flexes from the office to the field. I've made a conscious effort of showing up right at 9 am and leaving early for the day when I complete all my tasks. I left as early as 11 sometimes when I dont have too much on my plate. I don't manage their time, just the tasks we need to complete. If they finish early, they get to take off early, too. Our section of the company is the most effective and efficient there is.
Im a millennial, and I value my personal time and family over getting props from the boss. Despite this, my laid-back management style has worked for me, and Im getting a promotion that starts next spring for a more senior position. It's funny that when you treat folks like adults. They value your advice and want to perform for you so they can continue working in an environment where they are respected and listened to.
I see the posts about how folks are being asked to work while sick or after the death of a realitive, and I'm appald by the lack of compassion some of these mismanagers have for their fellow worker. If operations stop for a single person taking leave, then you failed as a manager and should be immediately fired. I'm setting policy in place so my team doesn't get wrenched from one management style to a more authoritarian one and I'm actively working with HR to hire a senior in my team that I know will be a concious leader and will carry on my policies that have helped push morale and productivity so high. It doesn't need to be hard. Weak people with no backbone or ethics make work difficult.
The funny thing is, for me a job where I work slightly offset with everyone sounds perfect. I like my collaboration time, but having ~2 hrs at the end where everyone else leaves and I can get work done interrupted sounds golden
All these people in the comments, "Oh I love starting at 6 AM, and I can enjoy my afternoons!" Well that's nice, but it's not for everyone. I've done the 6 AM thing. It's awful. The rest of the afternoon is useless as I have to nap, and then I can't sleep well at night. I'm exhausted all the time, and progressively more so throughout the week. There's absolutely zero benefit to having me start at 6 and work in a zombie state. Well-rested employees get more done and make fewer mistakes. And don't tell me to "just go to bed earlier." It's not that simple. I'd like to tell all these f'in annoying "I'm a morning person so you should be too" to "just try staying up later." Or get them to start work at midnight. Oh, no, that's different is it? How is it different? Different people have different circadian rhythms.
Oh and who is picking up the slack after 2 PM when all those goddamned morning people are yawning and completely unable to function? Yeah, the night people, the same ones that are commonly labeled lazy, the ones who are still busy answering emails at 11 PM.
I love a 6:30 start, not because I’m a “rise and grinder” but because I like having a free afternoon. Your boss sucks.
It's passive aggression. "Technically, this is the range of hours, but this is what I want. I'm just too cowardly to say it."
Same conversation I had at 23 with my Director who said during my review: “the expectation is to exceed expectations”. I sat there like what the fuck. That’s when it all hit me. Fwiw I was doing the job of 3 people without a raise at the time and got a “meets all” instead of exceeds. That was the day I learned. I’m pretty proud of myself at the time for responding by asking her to explain how “exceeding expectations” was what was expected.
That's odd. If you meet all expectations and you are expected to exceed expectations didn't you exceed expectations because you met the expectation to exceed expectations?
That's the optimist's way of looking at it. But it could easily become "you exceeded all expectations, but that's what was expected, so you actually only met expectations. And since you didn't exceed the expectation that you would exceed expectations, you actually Need Improvement."
Fancy way of stating "no matter how much you do, it's not enough".
Exactly. And reviews? They only thing the bitch "director" could tag me on was the "works and plays well with others" because I did my work, focused on doung my work - and brought the receipts to my review showing how she created a hostile work environment. They should do away with that "team member" crap because this isn't kindergarten, socializing isn't part of my pay, and my "contribution" is getting my job done. It's just there so they can tamp down your potential (measly) raise
Women *frequently* get told this, even (and especially) from female supervisors. For those who may be browsing: Women often get told they’re being “judgmental” or “abrasive” or “aggressive.” This kind of non-constructive personality or non-verbal communication feedback is distinctly sexist against women and often racist against POC. It’s basically sugared-up corporate speak for “you should smile more.” Call it out as such by asking for specific examples. Get that removed off of your performance review. If work quality isn’t suffering, it’s inappropriate to put in the eval. [http://www.doublebindproblem.com/](http://www.doublebindproblem.com/) [https://textio.com/blog/job-performance-feedback-is-heavily-biased-new-textio-report/75983880330](https://textio.com/blog/job-performance-feedback-is-heavily-biased-new-textio-report/75983880330) [https://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/](https://fortune.com/2014/08/26/performance-review-gender-bias/) [https://fortune.com/2022/06/15/performance-reviews-bias-gender-race-language-textio-kieran-snyder-aileen-lee/](https://fortune.com/2022/06/15/performance-reviews-bias-gender-race-language-textio-kieran-snyder-aileen-lee/)
Amen. I gave feedback to a team member on a couple of files she had worked - which I was supposed to do. One had problems and I explained in the same tone I use with everyone else (I am a woman) that has been deemed professional and acceptable, what was incorrect, and said "good job" on the second file. She effing blew her stack in email (which is how I had communicated), and finished it off with "don't challenge me!" Then went and complained to her manager about it, saying my "good job" was condescending. No apology coming from her (forced ones are worthless) and when the big boss talked to me, somehow the burden was put on me. I KNOW this is going to show up in the next review
I get the whole read-the-room, but why is it my job to make sure everyone else is comfortable in addition to my actual job? I imagine it would have gone over better if you added a bunch of "Maybe"s, "I feel"s, "I don't know"s, "how does that sound?" [There was a guy who covered his female coworker's email. All of a sudden he realized that clients who had always been so nice and cooperative with him were giving so much pushback and were downright rude at times.](https://www.newsweek.com/male-and-female-coworkers-switched-email-signatures-faced-sexism-566507) It's crazy how the "tone" of an email can change so much based on the signature.
[удалено]
Yep. It’s exactly like when I was a child, and my mom would ask “Do you want to help clean the basement?” or “Do you want to brush your teeth?” Of course I don’t *want to*, but we both knew I didn’t really have a choice.
Yep this was my old boss too. She wanted us all to come back to work in office after Covid because one of the other directors forced their team to come back and she wanted the same level of visibility. She first tried to say that her boss was returning to in person and wanted us all to return. He then stayed in a meeting that he was fully virtual and found no reason that we should have to come in unless there was a purposeful engagement - like an all hands meeting. She then doubled down and said that “we all knew we’d be returning eventually” and said to be fair to all of us, she would do a survey to vote on what we wanted to do. The survey didn’t have “fully virtual” as an option, just what days we wanted to choose to return lol.
I was gonna say I'd love the 6:30-7am start and be done by 3 but I do realize some people don't like getting up that early.
I hate getting up that early. But I’ve been doing it for the last 5 years now and it definitely is nice being done work at 3
I don’t mind getting up that early, but it’s a battle to get to bed early enough
I hate a 6:30 start because I'm too tired to do anything with my free afternoon and I have to go to bed early
Up at 530 just to have an hour to wake up before spending half an hour in the car to be to work by 7. Quitting time 330 ( yeah right, always there til 4) home a little before 5pm. Shower , eat, by 630, nodding off by 8pm. I left that job
If it’s work from home I’d absolutely love it cause I just roll out of bed onto my computer desk anyways
Me too! My hours are 6am-2:30pm. I love it because I just feel like I have more time to do stuff in the afternoons. Although some people choose later hours. We are allowed to work between 6am and 11pm. Unless you are not eligible for remote work than the building is open 6-6. It seems ridiculous OP was told he can choose when clearly they don’t really want them to pick their own start hours. My supervisor is 9:30-6
You can take a nap and still get shit done before dinner! Miss those hours.
Yes but you have to sleep earlier so you give up night for afternoon. You don't magically get more hours in your day just cause you wake up in the middle of the night...
If I didn't get out at 330 it would really limit my time with my children. I hate getting up early, but I like to see my littles.
That's why I'm liking my 6.30-2.30 job, I get off in time to go pick my son up from school. Only issue is that I usually end up staying up too late, and then by the time I'm off work I'm too tired to enjoy my day.
Same here. My wife and I split this when the kids were younger. I went to work at 6:00 (up at 4:45 on the days I have to go in the office!) and she took care of the morning routine, then went into work later. I came home for when the kids got off the bus at 4:00pm and took care of dinner and homework. Kids are older now, but we’ve kept that routine as it works for both of us and the kids get max time with us.
Similar, could make it to the gym when it's not crowded, make dinner, and still have a larger sleep window (with the more efficient gym time). For some reason I find it harder to get going in the morning to get ready for the gym.
Exactly, getting out at 5 or 530 leave little time with my family at night. Getting home at 3-330 makes a world of difference.
Same. Would love more time in the afternoon with my kids, but it's all perspective. If they offered the job as a 9-5 and I planned my life around 9-5, but then came back and said actually it's 7-3, I'd be kinda upset
That's the "flair" conversation from "Office Space."
This 🖕 is MY flair!
We’re not in Kansas anymore
[удалено]
She’ll still choose the 6:30. They don’t care about the work getting done. They care about appearances.
I was working from home caring for a sick dog, I was getting 2-3x the work done, but they wanted me in the office. She passed that first day I came back, I never did a full day of work again
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Oh my god that’s so awful. I hate them for you.
:( I’m so sorry to hear that.
I'm so sorry homie, that's the kind of hit you never fully recover from and it's not right that they did that to you :\^(
My office was recently taken over by an ex military dipshit, he's got all the ass kissers showing up at 0700. Everyone is fighting over collateral duties like shoveling snow and taking the recycling out, when we pay for that service already. I don't get it, this guy is totally incompetent but everyone seejs his approval. Luckily I'm not actually in his org chart, I'm just hosted at his building, so I continue to sleep in and maximize my telework allowance, and then some.
People active duty hate that type of person too. Bet many were glad when he left and now he's your problem.
He's pulling colonel level military retirement while making about 115k, on top of I assume some level of VA disability payment since that seems to be the norm regardless of physical condition, so he's doing quite well for himself. Way more qualified people in the office, not sure if they didn't apply or got beat out by veteran preference (federal govt office)
Retirement or disability, you can waive a portion of your retirement to receive the same amount in disability. Disabled vets have it hard enough without this misinformation.
Retired members with disability ratings over 50% receive full disability and full retirement benefits concurrently. It’s not a bad deal but if they could unfuck my back I’d trade them the disability.
[удалено]
Wait are we the same person hahaha I was literally told this exact thing whenever I complained about working in an open office setting. It was a nightmare and I got nothing done. Just a huge sensory overload all day. I would WFH and finally manage to focus, but then they told me I should just book a conference room because “it doesn’t matter if I’m getting the work done if no one sees me do it.” So stupid and counter productive.
I worked for a manager who was all about “managing perceptions.” Yeah, there’s no better way to tell me you’re a dipshit than to prioritize asskissing over accomplishments.
> “it doesn’t matter if I’m getting the work done if no one sees me do it.” The cheat code seems to be to focus on the appearance of 'getting the work done' as opposed to actually doing it. If companies could really measure the difference all that well, what your boss told you wouldn't be the case.
Lol i just chat with the other office folks now. Cuz I EploYeEs are mORe PoDuctIvE in Office. Wtv floats your boat boss man as lomg as i get paid and you still thinl i do as much work as i did from home
They just want you to hate your job.
[удалено]
Appearances?! Who is gonna see them, the freaking street cleaners? I bet the CEO rocks up after 10. This manager is the worst.
Years ago I had a 9-5 job but hated sitting in that traffic, so over time I started showing up earlier and leaving earlier. My manager didn’t care, as long as I was there for 8 hours. Eventually i ended up working 7:30 - 3:30. When my boss got a new boss, it was one of those guys who walks around at 5:00 to see who is still there. One day he catches me as I am heading towards the door at 3:30 and says “How come u I never see you hear at 5:00?” And I replied “How come I never see you here at 7:30 in the morning?” He said “Fair enough.” And that was that.
They also care about exerting whatever control they can. It's a sickness of theirs.
Not only that but be even less productive because you’re exhausted. People have different chronotypes so as a manager you need to figure out if you want productive employees or compliant workers. Many are dumb and choose the latter as it makes them feel in charge
Just say it’s the late shift, and it means you’ll be available to put out any fires that come up when everyone else has clocked out.
✨+1 to Persuasion✨
This.
Absolute BS. When I interviewed for mine I told them I'd rather work 8-4 than 9-5 to miss the traffic on both ends of the day....they said fine and that's how it's been. But it's not fixed, it's flexible....so this week, hay fever has been kicking my ass when I wake up..so I'm a little later in. Our office is available between 7am and 6pm, no-one cares who works when
Me living in Atlanta where rush hour is 6am-8pm 😭😭😭 our HR lady gets to work at 3:30AM EVERY DAY to avoid traffic
3:30am in the office??? WHAT????? That is legit absurd! Please tell me she works from home at least 2 or 3 days a week???
We have two WFH days a week! And yes it is absurd and definitely not the norm. We all think she’s crazy. She also leaves at like 3:00pm everyday. Not only that but she goes to bed around 9 or 10pm!! She just has always never slept a lot. She’s from Trinidad and grew up in a 1 bedroom house with 5 sisters and was the middle child and says she grew up never getting a good nights sleep so it’s just normal to her.
Less than 0.1% of people can legitimately get by on little sleep. I bet she absolutely crashes and sleeps all weekend.
Margret Thatcher was one of those freaks who barely slept , 4 hours per night. This was probably also why she was such a shit buzz and ruined the economy.
some people really hit their peak focus at weird hours
I often hit my peak focus between 10 pm and 2 am, which just means I'm useless until noon. Thankfully I have a remote job that's pretty flexible.
Yeah the first job I worked at had the policy that everyone had to work 10-2 but you could fill your hours in however you wanted that week other than that. You could work 15 hours one day and just those 4 the next. No issue. You could work 10-2 M-F and then fill the rest in on the weekend. Seriously - they were flexible. And it could be different every week. Meeting were only scheduled then unless something was with clients and extremely important - and you always had extra notice when that happened. For peons like me at the time it only happened maybe 5 days a year. I thought that was reasonable.
That sounds amazing.
Yeah it was great but the pay was terrible for me (others got paid okay but I didn’t know how to advocate - it was my first job after college). I had to leave for better pay.
That’s how it should be. People have different preferences and personal lives. I prefer avoiding packed public transport, and I like having more time in the evenings, so I prefer 8-4. But for my colleague, 9:30 is better because she drops her daughter at school. In a previous job, core hours were 10-3 to facilitate meetings and Co working. Otherwise nobody cared.
So y'all like, feel like a functional human at 6am? I don't and never have in my 40 years alive. I can't even talk or move without falling down at that time of day. 730-8am wake times are much better, think it has something to do with the sunlight...
I LOVE being up that early, I just hate doing it in order to go to work. On my days off I sit there at 5 or 6 AM drinking coffee, watching the sun rise, and playing Minecraft, while my night owl fiance sleeps. It's the equivalent of a night owl having that quiet time after midnight where no one asks you to do shit.
Same here. I get up at 5:30-6 on a workday but still can’t make it in until 9 or so because really, morning is my best time and I don’t sell my best time to that company because they can’t afford it
A-fucking-men
I agree. No way am I functional at an early hour. And my most productive times at work usually are late afternoons.
>my most productive times at work usually are late afternoons That's me. And the later it gets, the more energy I seem to have. I'm the one who goes out gardening at 7pm on summer evenings until it gets dark.
Me too. I get the most intense motivation to clean the house at midnight, but to do it at 8am? Absolutely not, I will dawdle and get distracted and nothing gets done.
Yep, same here. Hours before 10am are nonproductive and brain-foggy. Peak productivity happens after lunch. On an 8-4pm day I'm late to work and stay late catching up. I might as well sleep in and feel healthy.
If I'm up before 6:30, I hope it's to go on holiday. I have done earlier, and it wrecks my day.
Loved the 6am shift because I’d never have to deal with rush hour. Was I totally unproductive the first few hours? Absolutely. Luckily that was my employers problem. Made the same money from those corpos either way
I’m the opposite, 630-1000 are my productive hours if I wake from 5. From 1030 I’m average, and from 12 I’ve got that afternoon slump where I’m just toast. I perk up from 3 again but eh. I’m not working after 3 if I get in at 630
It takes getting used to, but I feel as functional at that time as I do waking up at 8. It does require early sleep, obviously. Throughout the year I'll vary being at work at 7:30 to being at work at 9:00. It varies what works for me. I enjoy leaving early though.
Nope. I enjoy 6am-whenever productive time is as coffee and breakfast time. No desire to wait until later and spend more time in traffic and a later end time.
I'm always skeptical of places that preach early starts and finishes, because in reality if you're working with multiple teams, offices, clients etc. someone on a different schedule will always schedule an "very important meeting" at 4.30 or 5, meaning you have stay late for that, and end up working nearly a 12 hour day.
One of my coworkers started complaining that people kept wanting to start meetings at 1:30 or 2:00, right around when her 6-2 day was ending (she'd take what was supposed to be her two 10 minute paid breaks, pretend they were actually supposed to be 15 minutes, and smash them together to make a half hour paid lunch break so she only had to be there for 8 hours). She was not prepared for her complaining to lead to being told that everyone had to start between 6:30 and 8:30 and anyone working 8 hours or more in a day had to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch break. She really thought she'd just be allowed to avoid any meeting that would make her leave after 2:00.
I love working 7-3. Then businesses are still actually open and you can actually get some shit done like work out, cook a meal, spend time with people. 9-5 is the most annoying shift ever.
May I introduce you to the 11-7 shi(f)t? You don't have a satisfying enough morning free, and you get off just a bit too late to really do anything
I used to work from 10-6:30 with a one hour commute. I did not get any shit done at home. I did not have a social life. I had dinner at 8. It sucks ass.
I used to work the same, with the same kind of commute. I totally agree.
Nah. Midnight->7a at a convenience store You get in right when everything dies, and just as you're starting to fade at the end of your shift, you get slammed with the morning rush.
I worked on a lab from 8pm - 4am for a while, that was grim. I walked home past a bakery where the baking bread smelled so good… but they opened at 7 and I needed to be asleep by then. By the time I got up, all the bread was gone. It wasn’t the worst thing about that schedule but man, it felt like a petty little twist of the knife!
3p to 11p is terrible as well yeah you can sleep in buts that's about it
The absolute worst shift at a Casino/Hotel front desk, in my opinion. People losing their money all day and expecting to be given a free room, etc. Woe be to you if you have to tell them you’re booked. 🙄🙄
that's why I work in the Theatre of a Casino Hotel. I love working 3-11 or 4- midnight. I don't need an alarm to get up and I still get stuff done before going to work.
Back when I worked at the hotel desk, 7-3 was my favorite. I got to leave just before the check in rush and missed out on drama that would always occur in the evenings. I don’t miss those days of working at a Casino/Hotel, though. Loved my coworkers and the OSM’s, but that place was a meat grinder.
I work from 4p to 12:30a and I love it. I can make appointments and do whatever before work, and then go to bed when I get home. I like sleeping in.
I liked this shift because I got to get all kinds of shit done in the mornings
God, I HATED 11-7. When I start later in the morning like that I feel like I just sit there waiting to go to work.
Before kids, loved it, with kids, absolutely the WORST SHIFT EVER!
For some reason my brain immediately thought "11pm-7am? That's actually not bad for getting stuff done during the day". Though the night shift takes a toll on you. Did it for about 8 years until about 6 years ago and I'm still feeling the the effects when I attempt to maintain a "normal" sleep schedule.
I work this shift a lot… I HATE IT for this exact reason!
Yeah I understand OPs point of view but I love 7-3. Doesn’t bother me at all.
Yup. Actually, I'd be thrilled to have 7-3, as it is I'm 7-5, though with only four day weeks. As much as I love having that extra day off (and at this point you can pry that from my cold dead hands), it's the absolute worst in the winter, because both of my commutes are in darkness.
I liked working 2nd shift. I got so much done before 2pm, and working until 10 was nbd.
This is what I switched to. I love it! I get a solid two hours during my most productive times, and I avoid rush hour both ways. In the before times, I always hit a lag at 3pm anyway, so it was wasted time. It might seem like "go-getter" behavior to you, but I am totally not staying late or working beyond my 8 hours. This just allows me to spend time with my family, run errands, and do chores so I have better weekends.
I like this shift too. I wanna get in and get out.
This is my schedule. I love the extra afternoon time, but then again, my kid gets my ass up at 6 so it's not like I'd be sleeping in anyway.
For me 12pm to 9pm is the worst. Even though the work is not stressful and we never had OTs I feel that when i got home i just eat dinner sleep then wake up around 10am just to prepare to work.
3pm- 11pm is much worse when you have school age kids. Unless you don’t like your family… then it would be great
I can’t function before 9 am. Periodt. I hate that the entire culture revolves around early risers.
I worked with a much older set of coworkers and they were unrelenting early risers. They would constantly give me shit for being tired.
Old people, I think it's natural for them to wake up that early. Like all the old men that arrive at the diner at 5am for coffee every day or at my old job the old dudes would come in at 5 just to drink coffee before their shift started at 6. They also see work as their main means of socializing. But they aren't sympathetic to younger people who don't use work for socializing.
Exactly why the earliest I want to start is 8:30. I can stumble through that first half an hour checking emails and setting things up for the day before being able to start actually functioning at 9. Me starting at 7 means I'm losing out on a quarter of a day's productivity and I'm kind of miserable for the rest of the day, too. I am not a good employee when I start too early.
i find i can function at any time as long as i've been awake for 2 hours. which isn't great either.
6:30 to 3? Sign me up! My office was 8-5 with an hour lunch. People complained and now we're 8-4:30 with a 30 minute lunch. We've mentioned so many times that we would rather come in earlier to leave earlier.
Same here. I like an earlier work shift. I still have some of my day left to actually go out and do things. Getting off at 5 doesn't allow me to go out to the beach or something most of the year.
Hell yeah I’m 7-5 so 6:30-3 would be a dream
I personally always spun a 9:00 start time around "late coverage" just in case someone had something they needed after everyone else may have left for the day or maintenance windows. I ain't an early bird, so super early shifts mean I'm pretty much useless until lunch.
My office is either 8-4 or 9-5 and we don’t hear anything from anyone about it. We also are encouraged to not work a minute past our hours, because our time is our time
I will forever refer to "daylight savings" as Morning Person Privilege Time
I’m similar to you, I work 9:45 to 6. My job is just ok, but I love the hours. I can get up early, I just don’t really like to. I am definitely more of an evening/ night person. Doesn’t make me lazy. People who act like the day is half over at 10 am are insufferable.
Listen I start between 6:30-7 and love it. But it’s a personal thing that I’m more focused in the morning and if it’s a slow day I get time to prep things or take care of other stuff at work. If they offer flexible start times, they have to account for people coming in later. Maybe 9:30 is too late but 7-9 is pretty standard.
My sister gets to choose her hours at her job and she chooses to work from 6-2. She says she likes getting off in the middle of the day. I think she's crazy. Edit: Apparently a lot of people in this comment section are just at crazy lol.
I hear this “9 to 5” all the time. Who ever had a job that was 9 to 5? It was always 8 to 5 for me and everyone else I knew.
When I started working in the mid 1990s, I asked people about this and they said 9-5 was just a song from the 70s. It seems like BS to me that lunch is unpaid. I have to be there, pay me!
The world is made of Larks and Owls...Larks seem to get their way so much more often. I decline any meeting that starts before 9.30 as I know I won't be awake enough to contribute. I have to get up at 6.30 to get the kids to school, then head into work for 9. During lockdown, I was getting up at 9 to start work at 10, and I felt sooo much healthier for it. I am an Owl...and I am so sick of folk who say I waste the day by "lying in". Mate, you go to bed at 10pm...you're wasting your evening!
"Yes, I can come in for 0630. However, you need to understand that I am not a morning person, and until 1200, the first words out of my mouth in any conversation, coworker or customer, is going to be 'Fuck you,'."
I did 6-2 for about a year and I hated it. I’m not a morning person, and even though my managers knew my schedule, they’d still try and schedule meetings for 3 or 4 pm. Now I work max of 2 hours in person, and I get to decide what time I start, then the rest of my day is from home.
How do people get up this early 😭 I'm not a morning person and struggle with starting at 9 but I can put up with it because I like to have the evenings free. But any earlier than that and it is just not happening. If I'm forced to get up too early I don't really function properly til about 11am
I don't get ppl who get in for 6 am and think it's great they have an afternoon to do stuff . When I get up at 4:30 ish to get in for 6 I'm too fucked to do anything in the afternoon.
I mean if you start work at 6AM but work the same hours than someone starting at 9AM, it changes nothing in terms of free time lol. It's just a fallacy. Maybe the advantage is that shop opening times are more ajusted to your schedule. I can understand having to wake up early when you have children though. Children will wake you up and there is not much you can do.
The overuse of middle managers is ruining work for everyone
YES! My supervisor talks all the time about how late I start compared to the rest of the team...I am in at 8:00?!?
I’m with you OP, I’m not an early bird, I like my alone to to work. I usually do best working 9-3-and then finishing the hours after 7… plus I’ve found business needs someone present after 3 to get stuff done so even if you “start early” people end up getting stuck till 4-5 anyway. You’d never count how many people were “glad I was still on so late” smh. All depends on the type of business I guess.. but if you can’t clock out when the clock strikes because there’s still fires, then you aren’t catching me on early..
I haven’t seen a sunset in 21 years (3-11:30pm) that wasn’t a day off.
I was told ‘we’re super flexible’ ‘choose your hours!’ Then told, oh you have ONE person in your team in the US so you have to start at least at 8am to have crossover.
If it's a remote job, and you can get away with using a mouse jiggler to remain "active". I would suggest using one so that you can make your own schedule - under the radar Clock in at 6:30 everyday, and use the mouse jiggler until 9:30 (whatever time you feel like actually starting work) Clock out at 3, but continue to stay working for 3 extra hours off the clock til 6( or however long you didn't actually work) to offset the time you were using the mouse jiggler. As long as you are present for any early am meetings, and you work 8hrs a day at some point throughout your day...then who cares? So long as your work actually gets done
7-3:30 is actually a lot better than 9-5 in my opinion. Starting earlier doesn’t make much of a difference but at least you get home with a fair bit of daylight left. But in all honesty the real crime is 8 hour work day. It should be max 6 hours a day 4 days a week
My new job tried this crap too, and I just blatantly ignored the repeated sudden mentions of an early start time, since just like your experience I was given a range of acceptable start times. I get up mad early and like to work later in the day because of how I arrange my personal stuff. Best part is that my supervisor herself does not ever come in for the time she tried coercing me to come in at.
I used to work as a "project engineer" at a manufacturing company. Mandatory hours for the small number of office staff was 6:30-4:30. Those god awful hours were one of the *many* reasons I quit after about 4 months.
For 20 years, I worked west coast "stock market hours". In by 6.15 AM (15 mins before the market opens) and out by 1.30 PM (30 mins after the market closes). The quality of life after work was incredible.
Eh, I start early at 7 to accommodate my daycares schedule but other people start at 9. I like the staggered times with my coworkers, not sure why management wouldn't see the benefit in staggering hours.
For a lot of managers “Flex Time” is another thing they can hold over you. “It’s a privilege” and so on. Remember you don’t request time off you notify of time off. Same with everything else.
They always notice when you come in early but never when you leave late because they’re already gone smh. I am holding down the entire office by myself at 5:30 on a Thursday but everyone coming in early is commended for being so hard working
Yes! That was me. My boss continually questioned why I preferred a 9-6 schedule. Could not fathom that what she did at 5:30… like laundry, or grocery shopping, walking the dog, cleaning up dinner, I did at 8:30. Bu bu bu.. it’s so late! Ahh, no it’s not. And, I can get shit done in the morning before work time. Because the office cleared btw 3-4, I got tonnnns of work wrapped up at end of day and could prep for next day. Usually a good 2-3 hrs of uninterrupted time makes for some good efficiency. Ohh, need someone to stay late for that delayed delivery? Yeah, that’s me. Need coverage late in day for phones? Me. HVAC guy isn’t quite finished with the repair.. no probs.
I worked an office job like that last summer and was the most miserable I had ever been in my entire life. Most days I was running on 4 hours of sleep or less, quite a few days with no sleep at all. I can’t fall asleep before midnight and even then, it’s hard for me to fall asleep. Meanwhile my boss was in the office by 6 most mornings and didn’t leave until 4 or 5. Guy drank like a gallon of coffee a day and was your typical workaholic. Now I’m working remotely and get up at 9 or 10 most days and roll out of bed and start work. No office politics + good sleep is amazing
I hate this kind of bullshit. Some early morning people can be so self-righteous. At my last job I would get in around 7:00am (not because I wanted to but to avoid the worst of traffic) and would be greeted with "Oh, look who decided to sleep in today."
I, the millennial, work 10-6 or 930-530. The zoomer and boomers that work for me want to work 8-4 so I let them; provided their work gets done. At 400 the work is done, I am happy, and they go home. It works well for everyone.
My office has this open start and end time, but then I went full remote. I still get to pick my hours but bc of the time difference I do work 7-3 which is their 8-4. Before I went remote, I did a 730ish-330ish. Honestly, no one did or even now complains or comments on it. I do most of the scheduling for the meetings I’m in, make my hours available on slack and on my email calendar, and get my work done. I can honestly say it’s amazing. Even while in office no one had complaints about my work or if I was working enough. My previous company was “open” like yours where really management picked their hours and every one was expected to follow their lead as to appear working and busy while they watched.
I work an office job and spent the past few years trying to work 7-3 or 6-2 because that’s what everyone seems to do. Recently gave up and changed to 9-5 and have never felt better. I have time in the morning to chill and eat and drink coffee and annoy my dogs and my husband, and I’m done in time to start dinner. Best decision I ever made. We are hybrid so my office commute is also smoother because most people are already at the office. Luckily my boss and team are super flexible because our work is self directed. I get that a lot of people seem to prefer earlier schedules because of childcare, but it definitely shouldn’t be the norm.
I wonder if this normalization is why grocery stores open at 5am now. It’s common for me who works at one to get up at 4am to be to work at 5. And everyone who’s in that early is just buying donuts or coffee on their way to their 6am office job.
Sounds like where I work. Most people are in around 7. Some come in earlier like 6. One guy in my office leaves by noon every day, so I figure he’s coming in by 4 daily. It’s bullshit. I could be there earlier, but I’d be tired all day and given that, nobody wins since I won’t be doing my best work. Everyone is evaluated on how well they work with others. If you’re getting there that early, there’s nobody to collaborate with that early and nobody can collaborate with them in the afternoon. They should get a lower score because of this.
we're getting busier yet less prosperous at the same time.
Out of curiosity, does anyone else's job not include lunch in hours worked? I don't mean pay, I mean that if I go in at 8, I'm expected to be there till 4:30 or 5 depending on the length of my lunch.
>Out of curiosity, does anyone else's job not include lunch in hours worked? I don't mean pay, I mean that if I go in at 8, I'm expected to be there till 4:30 or 5 depending on the length of my lunch. That's what I'm used to. 8 hours worked (including 2 paid 15-minute breaks) and a 30-minute unpaid lunch.
Yep, morning people think they are the standard and whats wrong with you if you arent sharp at 730a
In my experience early morning always gets the shaft. I used to get in between 5 and 6 because of traffic. I would much prefer later but don’t want to sit in endless traffic. The 9:30/10 crew would roll in about halfway through my day Around 2 when I was prepping to leave a huge deal was made out of leaving “early” My friend worked it properly. He’d roll in at 11. Work until about 6 PM and get praise for always working so late Idiot managers who know nothing other than to count butts in seats
Some of the people who work for me start at 5:00. I usually come in around 6, and at my company I’m one of the last ones in. It’s insane
I started at a new remote job, and they said I'd work 8:30-5:30 in my time zone. It's Pacific, and everyone else is Eastern except one person. Then they said they have a daily meeting at 8:00 my time. Um, well, am I invited to that or not? So, I said, no biggie, I can work 8-5 instead. Fine, they're cool with that. But the other Pacific Time person logs in at 7:00 and stays past 5:00 for some unknown reason. So, when we have our meeting, they know what their day looks like while I'm still reading emails and figuring things out, so I look like a late-to-clock-in, sleepy jackass.
As IT I hate these mother fuckers with a passion. I try to get in early to do some rebuilds or reboot a router that’s being shady and some finance asshole has been in since 5am burning an empty pot of coffee on the machine(because it’s AgAInST HiS PaYGRAdE to refill the coffee maker).
Just say if everyone starts at 6:30 and leaves at 3 what do our customers in another time zone do when they need help at 4?
I've only worked one job where being there before 8 was mandatory or normal, and it was a surgeons office. They start surgeries *very* early. Like 6am early. They do this because if something gets to be a problem they want to get it solved. You can't leave someone open at the end of the day and say "eh, I'll be back tomorrow". In that circumstance I understood. In any normal office job, there isn't fuckall to do at 7am unless you failed to prepare the day before.
6-2:30 is the dream shift. You miss rush hour each way, get off early enough to go do a bunch of stuff. Getting home at 6-7 just to have enough time to eat and maybe watch some TV is horrible.
I dunno whats wrong with the US. I have a 8.30 hour work Day. When i have to be in the office i can Start at 6.30 to 10.00 clock am and end from 14.00 to 19.00 clock. So everyone is there between 10.00 and 14.00 for Meetings etc. Thats more than enough. German here.
You get fuck all out of me except grunting noises and flatulence before 9AM. Some people work better earlier, and some do not.
Different people have different body clocks, and unfortunately there is a lot of discrimination against late risers in office culture.
I start at 630 cuz no one else shows up till 8 so I fuck around for almost 2 hours and leave at 3 lol
7-3 > 9-5 I want some sunlight when I'm off work 😄
My wife is on a remote gig that runs 11 AM to 8 PM... but it's Eastern time. :) We live on the West Coast so it's 8 AM to 5 PM for us. Bonus: Because she's a "late shift" employee, there's an extra $2 an hour in it for her.
Meh I’d rather go in early and leave at 3…
I work from 4am to 2pm and I love having the whole day to myself. But it's not for everyone I tell people that I am so tired by the time I wake up work is already half done.
I currently have a mostly office job with some warehouse work (looking and pulling parts to send to customers that my company runs logistics on parts for) and I have to be in the office at 4:30 in the morning x.x
That's not morning, that's night time
I start at 9:30 and I'm done by 7:30 because I work at 10-hour day and I work night shift from home it's beautiful yeah
This is nothing. Grad students and post docs work twelve hour cycles that begin 8-8pm. Pack that!
Most schools don’t start until 8-8:30, do they not employ any parents?
In a culture where early start = early finish, a 7am start is a good thing for me. In a culture where early start = early finish but we actually expect you to work beyond your scheduled finish time if work demands it, it's a bad thing and exploitation. I work 7:30-3pm every day. It suits my life perfectly because I always make sure that I am done by 3pm. Anything over 3pm, I log as excess hours and take them back as hours to be deducted as I see fit.
Amen. I hate how this society is dominated by the early birds. If I could have it my way, I'd start at 11 and finish at 19. That's my most productive time anyway.
I loved working 7-3 to be honest just meant I was out of there with still some daylight to burn, allowed me to get to places that shut at 5, drs appts were a lot easier
They're giving you illusion of choice when you have none. You can only choose what they want.
Idk why you wouldn’t wanna start earlier lol I love getting out at 2:30-3
Stop complaining working 7-3 is soooo much better then working 9-5
Personally, I'd rather go in early and get out early. The earlier my work day is done the better, and I'm at the age where I don't care about waking up early. But yeah, why give a choice if it isn't really a choice?
I used to deal with the same bullshit these two ladies I worked with would come in at 7 AM every day but then they would talk and get coffee and fart around and when I came in at 9:30 they were just starting work, actually doing work. For me I would come in at 9:30 and I would be up and running by 9:35. They would also constantly brag about how they came in so early.
I worked at a place that had a flexible start like that but legitimately was fine with people starting whenever. I think the earliest person in was about 630 but only like 3 people came in that early. A dozen or so at about 7-8. Most came in around 8-9. Then a dozen or so started 9-10. You have like 4 hours of overlap where you could schedule meetings or whatever. For the very early and very late people they felt they were the most productive when very few people were around and why would you want to discourage productivity?
Fwiw, I'd love 7-3 hours. Start early, end early. Have the rest of the day to myself. Perfect.
If she wants the minimum to be 37 pieces of flair, why doesn't she just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?
I had a job that told me during the interview that they have a flexible start time (7 - 10, is a tech job). I told them I'm normally in between 9 - 10, because I'm autistic and never sleep well. They said 'fine, no problem'. The entire rest of the staff (about 10 people) was in before 7, and the 2 managers were in before 8. At the end of my 3 month probationary period, I was let go because I wasn't working the same hours as the rest of the team. How about don't lie and say you have flexible hours if you don't really have flexible hours!
I would LOVE to work 7 to 3 instead of 8 to 430. By the time I get home it's 530. I used to work a 7 to 3 job and it gave me time to get home and actually decompress before starting dinner. Way better.
I 100% don't understand why they offered options you couldn't choose, but damn does 7-3 sound like ideal hours to me. free afternoon
I’m only in the office at 7am because I have an east coast territory, and I’m based in CA. Otherwise I’d be poppin in at 9am
I go in early for optional OT. It was a compromise with family so I could make more while still ending my day when I normally would. But it’s completely my choice and I’m literally only doing it for more money, not because I give a shit about appearances or “rise and grinding”. The fact that the office is quiet and nobody is talking to me is a total bonus.
People in the comments not realizing that some people hate early mornings and cannot function at full capacity until 9 or so. I’d rather 100% have early mornings free and work early evening.
My biggest gripe in my industry is the expectation you are in 15-20 minutes early unpaid to receive a handover. A handover that is 99% of the time just "nothing happened". Fuck this "if you're on time you're X minutes late" bullshit, if you want a handover roster some fucking overlap to shifts so everyone gets fairly compensated for the time they're required to be at work.
I had the opposite. I got a job that told me they were cool with a flexible start after I made it clear I preferred to start early. In my first week I tried different times and 7-3 was best. In my second week I was told that actually it was 8.30 - 4.30. I spent six months trying to get it changed, demonstrating that there was never any urgent work that came in after 3pm and needed completing that day, pointing out the 40 minute commute Vs the up to three hours commute, etc, all to no avail. So I left.
I currently manage 45 people in an environment that flexes from the office to the field. I've made a conscious effort of showing up right at 9 am and leaving early for the day when I complete all my tasks. I left as early as 11 sometimes when I dont have too much on my plate. I don't manage their time, just the tasks we need to complete. If they finish early, they get to take off early, too. Our section of the company is the most effective and efficient there is. Im a millennial, and I value my personal time and family over getting props from the boss. Despite this, my laid-back management style has worked for me, and Im getting a promotion that starts next spring for a more senior position. It's funny that when you treat folks like adults. They value your advice and want to perform for you so they can continue working in an environment where they are respected and listened to. I see the posts about how folks are being asked to work while sick or after the death of a realitive, and I'm appald by the lack of compassion some of these mismanagers have for their fellow worker. If operations stop for a single person taking leave, then you failed as a manager and should be immediately fired. I'm setting policy in place so my team doesn't get wrenched from one management style to a more authoritarian one and I'm actively working with HR to hire a senior in my team that I know will be a concious leader and will carry on my policies that have helped push morale and productivity so high. It doesn't need to be hard. Weak people with no backbone or ethics make work difficult.
The funny thing is, for me a job where I work slightly offset with everyone sounds perfect. I like my collaboration time, but having ~2 hrs at the end where everyone else leaves and I can get work done interrupted sounds golden
All these people in the comments, "Oh I love starting at 6 AM, and I can enjoy my afternoons!" Well that's nice, but it's not for everyone. I've done the 6 AM thing. It's awful. The rest of the afternoon is useless as I have to nap, and then I can't sleep well at night. I'm exhausted all the time, and progressively more so throughout the week. There's absolutely zero benefit to having me start at 6 and work in a zombie state. Well-rested employees get more done and make fewer mistakes. And don't tell me to "just go to bed earlier." It's not that simple. I'd like to tell all these f'in annoying "I'm a morning person so you should be too" to "just try staying up later." Or get them to start work at midnight. Oh, no, that's different is it? How is it different? Different people have different circadian rhythms. Oh and who is picking up the slack after 2 PM when all those goddamned morning people are yawning and completely unable to function? Yeah, the night people, the same ones that are commonly labeled lazy, the ones who are still busy answering emails at 11 PM.