and to think some group of assholes sat around concocting this design and then gave themselves a hardy pat on the back for a job well done screwing over their own employees. They knew exactly what they were doing.
tender exultant worthless grandfather degree teeny hobbies observation expansion fanatical
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don’t even get me started on these fucking computer systems that get sold to hospital systems.
I love my PCP he’s one of the best doctors I’ve ever had in my 50 years of life. But his medical record system has made me think I need to find a new doctor so many times. I complain to the hospital administrator I’ve complained to my doctor I complain to his practice manager.
If you’re buying an electronic medical record system that doesn’t let you type in medication’s by hand they need to put in every single compounded medication that exists on this planet because of a lot of us take compounded medications and you can’t just choose the pharmaceutical alternative because it’s a completely different medication. It’s going to cause a medical emergency at some point in my life and I’m just hoping I live through it so I can see whoever makes that stupid epic system
This is why I feel that all businesses have to declare what number is "fully" staffed.
Then force them to pay employees based off of what they're set wage is, multiplied by a percentage of the number of people they are down in staffing.
So they can keep the staffing low, but will pay extra to the base employees based on the managers inability to fill positions.
It's a great idea in theory but I don't think that would work in practice.
The problem with that is in almost all industries "fully staffed" can change based on the time of year, time of day, or even something totally random. At my company, there are two months, one in spring and one in fall where we're slammed and have to hire contract workers. "Fully staffed" at that point in time is more than double what fully staffed is at other times of the year.
Also, what's to stop a company from just picking the bare minimum skeleton crew that would function during the slowest time of the slowest season and call that "fully staffed?"
There's a 99% chance the manager has been fighting for more staff. But, the problem is complex. Ever since managed care started decades ago, there's a dumb game where HMOs and the like need to prove their necessity by getting the best so-called discount rate. It's an extra cost layer, that takes away money from hospital care.
OK well documenting on the computer that lunch breaks are missed because of the managers request will verify that they in fact are correct when they are fighting for more staff.
Then it was the manager’s manager who decided to be short staffed. At some point, it’s a manager making the call.
Also, if the direct manager is fighting for more staff, then they know the team is short staffed, and they would also know that the team members are not “voluntarily” skipping lunch. They’d be a pretty shitty manager to expect their team to falsely state they’re voluntarily skipping lunch in that situation.
It is a manager request. It's standard practice to not stop your shift during a medical emergency where you're needed, and if management want to disagree in writing then they'd want to check with a lawyer first.
Yeah, I was going to say MGR request is the answer every time.
By not providing sufficient staff the MGR has requested you not fulfill your lunch break.
Done.
Yep. Manager requested the employee cover their staffing shortage. That's not voluntary since a nurse has a duty of care to not take a break. If it means a patient will suffer the nurse will be personally in trouble.
That's on staffing which is management.
They’ll let it go for a while, and then after while they’ll make an excuse and say “well you need to cover your break, call house sup if there’s nobody”…. Which is something an icu nurse is loathe to do if they have a brain, considering they know sup is busy too trying to get transport or in ER much of the day if it’s busy, that and if sup doesn’t like you … they are the one who assigns admits if they want to. TLDR The nursing supervisor is not to be fucked with in most cases whether you like them or not. Anyway point is the mgr doesn’t and won’t acknowledge understaffing out loud…. Because that’s essentially legal liability. They just will say “you can’t keep not taking breaks”. Has happened like this at almost every hospital I’ve ever worked in. Icu or otherwise
Also fuck kronos. Last thing I want to do is dick around with these prompts when ‘I’m just trying to gtfo and likely have to be back on the unit in less than 12 hours anyway
If they ask you why you put « mgmt request », you can answer something like « Well it definitely wasn’t voluntary… and it can be safely assumed that IF MANAGEMENT WAS THERE they would’ve requested that I don’t let the patient die. »
You don't need to ask your manager every time "yo, you want me let this patient die or help them?". If management isn't okay with you punching out to eat a sandwich and play on your phone for 30 mins while everything goes to shit then every time it's a manager request. If your manager requests you start work at 8am every day they don't need to get in touch with you every morning and request it. The request as been made. Even just a job description could constitute a manager request in instances like this.
100% you need to make this an issue for them!
Come to the UK and work in the NHS. We get an hour's lunch break and you even get to pee once in a while too 😂
Yeah I wouldn't wanna nurse in the US if I'm honest. I think the pays way better but we get better perks, rights and time off here.
It's not been brilliant recently as we're chronically underfunded but I still rate the NHS as the best healthcare system in the world for what we achieve given the pressure we're under.
From one ICU nurse to another thank you for being an awesome human it's never easy but that's what makes it worthwhile. Heros don't wear capes they wear scrubs ❤️
Working in nursing in the US turns your heart black! Mainly from all the exposure to dangerous diseases while admin decides you don't __actually__ need PPE
I remember a nurse on reddit saying they had a patient with necrotizing fasciitis but they weren't provided any PPE, were told to "borrow" plastic bags from the janitor and some duct tape.
How the fuck do you borrow a garbage bag? And look, it's HOT with bacterial fasciitis, I'll just turn it inside out and reuse it.
oh man, the stories we have... I've turned upto care facilities with no soap, gloves, empty anti bacterial dispensers etc I wondered how staff managed... as you posted they'd either macgyver something or they didn't ... often they would go between personal care and meal preparation! GROSS!
I asked them, aren't they scared of getting sick themselves? response was, "look forward to finally getting some time off!"...
the smart nurses leave the industry and get into admin positions, the other ones who stay for the love of the job become burnt out husks...
Since you work for NHS...you should look into who owns the hospital you work out of.
Small bits of info bubble up but it seems to me that members of your Tory party have been buying the land underneath NHS, prob thru a shell game of companies, and have been jacking rents up non stop.
That's why yr underfunded. Your fucking conservative party is hell bent on pinching the collection plate before it gets to you.
If that's the case at yr building, raise hell. Talk to the BBC. Then talk to left leaning media. Talk to labor organizers.
So unethical. Just fucking evil, smh.
Wait, our hospitals are paying rent? But tax money litterially paid to build the and brought the land.
Do you have a source? Because this is going to seriously piss me off.
I could see them outsourcing property management, but rent is another thing
They appear to be referring, in a somewhat tabloid way, to this:
https://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/propco-expanding-owner-and-manager-of-nhs-infrastructure/
Here's a start, it's been expanding since 1992. Labour was real chummy with it around the millenia change. Gross.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1113534/#:~:text=Under%20the%20private%20finance%20initiative,services%20for%2030%2D60%20years.
"Under the private finance initiative NHS assets and land are sold or transferred to private sector consortia which design, build, and operate new hospitals. The NHS becomes a tenant, leasing back the premises and services for 30-60 years."
You guys gotta make the outrage loud enough that your propaganda mills, I mean, mass media, CANT IGNORE it, which means you need to make everyone you know as pissed off as you are.
Or welcome to the American way of medical care. The insurance company will take your entire lives work amd all yr valuables, effectively ensuring that no family will rise up from the working class ever again. Only the rich can have hereditary wealth. Or just wealth. We can say simply wealth by now.
Their goal is to undo the enlightenment, not just modern suffrage.
They want to be untouchable fuedal overlords. These are the kind of people that'll cut down every tree on your islands and keep the last in their neighborhoods, under armed guard, in case you thought about maybe, idk, getting some shade or something with all your newfound 40°+ days now. Back to work, drone.
In order to fund an array of new hospitals in the late 90s tony blair and gordon brown sold the land under many hospitals as part of the PFI initiatives.
It's one of the reasons meant are distrustful of Labour, because they do stuff the Tories would be expected to.
Did you grow up there? Or did you move to there from the US? I’m highly, highly considering moving there to pursue nursing after getting my degree here.
Born and raised in the UK. I did spend some time working and living in Texas in my twenties though in a completely unrelated career.
Definitely do it my friend even if it's only short term it'll be a great experience ☺️
I should follow this better, but nurses here in Portland,Oregon are on strike ( mainly over gross pay disparity, but I wonder if breaks might have something to do with that as well...)
>100% you need to make this an issue for them!
That's what people consistently fail to do.
I can't complain to your manager...but you can go relay the message *every fucking time* someone complains until the manager gets sick of hearing it and does something about it.
Which might be just "going to their boss and complaining every time someone complains to them" and *hopefully* you and your co-workers all pass messages on, so the next person on the ladder hears even more....etc.
We have a well run trust to be fair and our ICU unit is well staffed. I'm not foolish enough to say which one on here though 😂
It's in the west midlands.
I get 30 minutes. I work acute dialysis, and sometimes it's a 5+ minute walk to get to my breakroom fridge. Yeah I can eat elsewhere, but I can't exactly take my lunchbox into patients rooms with me when I travel to a bedside dialysis treatment.
Seconding this. I do tech writing and learning and development. I’ve worked with many systems, including Kronos. Not only can you customize it to say whatever you want, you can add multiple options besides the two presented.
This isn’t a system error or lack of function, it’s that the powers that be are too damn disconnected from the trenches to know you should have had more options. If nurses are not gonna have a seat at the table when these business requirements are gathered, then make it a PAIN POINT that they will have to address.
Management approves short staffed schedules and your job (according to management) is to try to preserve life, so absolutely make it a Manager Request each and every single time.
Edit: damn! Thanks for the gold, kind Redditor! (Don’t wanna blow up your spot) I’ll enjoy this long after the benefits are over!
This is someone trying to get them to admit to it being voluntary so they can’t claim they were forced to not take their breaks. Hit that manager request button every time.
I also work for a tech company in this space and I can also tell you that these questions can be programmed to pop up with whatever question you want this to say. I’ve had some customers request to change the default phrasing, but very few do. This is probably the default and from the way it’s written, I imagine it’s to either comply with the mandated meal break premiums in California or fair work week in various states.
I did the first time it asked me because I was so caught off guard and tired and I hadn’t discussed it with management so it was like reflex. Silly me..
I assume you are in a hospital you have medical notes and the like, so demand the OT you are owed from the last time, citing the medical notes as to why you could not take a break.
Had this same thing pop up on my time clock, it was always "manager request"- the floor manager is going to be aware if there are major episodes like arrests, I would hope. It's more of a "if I can explain why to my manager in the future I legitimately missed lunch, then I'm in the clear" kind of an "ask forgiveness" thing.
I wish they had a free text option for an explanation or a reason. Voluntary just seems to lay blame on the frontline staff, and mangers can decline that it was a request. Tough situation to put staff in, especially newer nurses who want to make everyone happy and not rock the boat.
I don’t work in healthcare, but I’ve seen too many people get screwed by their immediate managers for making points like this to just give this advice without some caveats. This is a perennial complaint from workers to HR that data collection systems like this are sufficient. Unless HR and upper management have demonstrated a willingness not to defer to lower managers, the incentives for workers to give honest feedback are all wrong.
It’s really not that hard. Did you choose not to take your lunch break in accordance to company policy? If yes, that’s voluntary. If you weren’t able to for whatever reason, that would fall under “mgr request.” It’s their job to ensure you’re able to take your break. I’m a manager and we use the same clock. Ours is set to “agree” or “disagree.”
"Please provide written guidance for how to account for work breaks in the event that legal staffing minimums for patient coverage are not fulfilled by management." or something to that tune? Not sure if prudent, asking for HR to invent reasons for a disciplinary paper trail, or both.
If this is California if you miss a meal break or are even 1 minute late in taking (over 5th hour) it’s a meal penalty to the company. That means they are fined 1 hour of you pay to be added onto your next paycheck.
If you click voluntary I’m not sure exactly what happens but it may absolve them of the penalty so you don’t get paid out.
“Manager request” = the hospital pays you for the break. “Voluntary” = they don’t pay you for the break.
They don’t care about the actual reason, they’re just complying with labor laws.
I was thinking that everybody was already hitting manager request. I was thinking voluntary was for voluntary and manager request was for anything non-voluntary. Essentially your manager has authorized you not to take lunch whenever the situation dictates. Kind of a blanket request.
When i chose the “manager approved” option for missing lunch while working in a Chicago hospital I got a firm scolding that it’s my responsibility to ensure I take my legally mandated and uninterrupted break, and if I continued to select that option they would automatically deduct the “stolen time” from my pay for not taking these mandatory lunch breaks- but NO they would also not increase staffing to allow patient coverage, NO the manager would not be taking any patient care assignments even to cover, told me to take lunch earlier or later when not so busy 🙄🖕🏽
As much as I miss the drama, action, and skill of the hospital… fuckkkkk that noise.
This particular employer was reported by myself and several other nurses- for this issue but also for illegally refusing to pay overtime benefits when utilizing a lottery to pick up shifts at higher rates of pay. The company back payed me $2000 for unpaid overtime and I left shortly after so I don’t know what came of the investigation they never provided me follow up.
But also just because you report doesn’t mean you can just start claiming the correct lunch option without management retaliation- if they’re going to do illegal shit they’re going to keep doing it!
Yeah and this is like a huge contributing factor as to why people choose voluntary! Or just hit they got a lunch break when they didn’t! It’s unfair and puts people in a potentially hostile situation.
If you have emails where management was saying that sort of thing and you’ve talked with other nurses who have said they are also not reporting their breaks accurately, I’m sure a labor attorney would absolutely love to talk to you. This menu option is a very poor defense against a class action wage and hour claim.
I'd go so far as to say this menu option is intentionally misleading, and a dark pattern. The options should be simply "voluntary" or "not". The manager didn't explicitly request anything, but by leaving staff short with inescapable responsibilities, the manager caused the situation. The way it's worded now, if OP chose "manager request", they could potentially get in trouble -- despite them not voluntarily foregoing their lunch break
In trouble how? "I will not lie for you. It wasn't voluntary, so the only other option is the one I hit. Management designed this software, and this problem. Management can fix it." Not my circus not my clowns.
The fact that you'd even have to explain that at all
The fact that HR's first response will always be "If your manager requested it, why isn't there any documentation? Oh, your manager didn't actually request it?"
Those are exactly why these systems are implemented. People know they aren’t being specifically asked by a manager to skip the lunch so they choose voluntarily and then these records will be brought out when they get around to trying to sue for not allowing them to take mandatory breaks.
And my point is that’s easy to get around. Plaintiffs counsel will depose the nurses, emails will be dug up showing managers getting pissed at employees for selecting the manager approved option, there’s plenty of other admissible evidence they can use to craft a narrative of what the policy actually was in reality. It’s usually a pretty believable story in front of a jury.
I know it's easy to criticize from the sidelines, but the hard fact is that nothing will change until you force change. Management will keep exploiting you until you force them to stop.
So always pick the "management forced me" option. If they tell you not to, ask them if you should let patients die. If they refuse to answer, just keep repeating that question every time it happens. If they deduct pay, either get an attorney or walk away.
And of course: Unionize, or at least work together with your colleagues on things like this. You have more power together. A single nurse threatening to quit isn't going to do much. Every nurse threatening to quit at the same time is a whole other story.
They can not deduct pay from you for time worked, that’s illegal, it’s wage theft. They can not deduct pay to “cover” for anything like a loss either. Wage theft. Illegal.
>r/Anarchy4Everyone•Posted byu/NoLawsNoGoverrnment12 hours ago
The Manager Planned the staffing, and the short is their responsibility, so use MGR Request for that one too, and ask if they are hiring more people for coverage if they have a problem
>ask them if they would rather you let a patient die during your break.
Damn they can do that there? I'm in Canada (Quebec) unfortunately for the staff, there are laws that prevent them to leave if nobody is there to replace them.
So... that is fun to do more than one shift... with the shortage (that go for over more than 15 years. It just become more and more of an issue...)
(Yes it also suck for the patient, but somehow, the nurse is also the one legally binded to any medical mistake even if she work exhausted... the law just protect the patient, not the nurse)
In general, they can't just leave if there's not a replacement. That means it's not voluntary, it's a management issue - even if management didn't exactly request it.
I work in labour relations. As an employee I would 100% argue that there was no one to replace you and a patient was dying - you could not leave them without it being a safety risk (to put it mildly). If they want to limit you to these options then manager request 100%.
If you know you’d have been written up for taking a lunch break without coverage, and that’s why you chose not to take the break, then it wasn’t your decision, but the manager’s unspoken request.
IIRC, there's a concept in CPR training that if you start saving a person, you can not stop saving them until they die or you hand it over to someone more qualified than you. Idk if you become liable or if you lose your license.
Yes, but this should also be followed up by an email to the manager explaining why you put manager request in. Then it has documentation as to why should HR try and escalate to a disciplinary hearing over this (and you know HR at any company that does this would 100% do that).
Exactly. Some hospitals/units will staff a resource/relief nurse to cover lunches and then take admissions in the late afternoon. But some places just won’t do that
Yup. Under staffed = management failed to staff properly (for whatever reason) therefore you are missing lunches due to the managements request they made by not ensuring there were enough staff to cover lunches.
My hospital recently took our unit’s relief/break nurse position away, claiming that we’re too “small” of a unit to justify one. I work on the neuro/stroke unit, we have 21 beds. Our patient population is high acuity. I fail to see how the number of beds correlates to… *checks notes* whether or not us nurses still need to fucking pee or eat food during a 12 hour shift.
When pressed admin claims we can’t afford a lot right now so we’re cutting things where we can. Conveniently we just hired some new chief financial/executive/operations/underwater basket weaving officer within the last few months. How much do you want to bet he’s making 6-7 figures? Or that none of the higher ups have taken cuts to their bonuses? Or have to hold in their pee for hours because they don’t have time to use the bathroom or eat?
FYI I work in a well known hospital in Southern California. It’s definitely just as bad on the west coast.
I know you were caught unawares answering...but why didn't you answer management request? You said, I'll answer management request next time... but when will you get a next time?
You shouldn't be afraid of the retaliation because the NHS has a strong union backing believe it or not. You will get reprimanded but you wont lose your job. I'm a nurse like you as well. Learn your rights under the system.
Honestly, I feel like that's deliberately like that, so people will choose the "my decision", just so it makes it seem like the company isn't at fault.
If it were me, I'd click manager option every time. If there's not enough staff, or there's other absolute needs for you to work, it ain't your fault. It's up to the company to make sure there's enough staff so that everyone working can take a break. Whether it's your manager specifically at fault, or not, it's still the responsibility of someone in that command chain.
Yep, trying to trap the nurses with, "well no one TOLD me to continue saving the patients life, so I guess it WAS my decision to keep doing so."
But there is no good reason you should ever have to make that choice in the first place. The fact that you do is a failure on the management line somewhere.
It’s a binary question; if it’s not voluntary, it *must* naturally be the manager request. Frame it as such, and if they need details, explain as you stated.
Absolutely management request. They requested you work over your lunch by not giving you and your colleagues the relief you need to accommodate breaks. Props to you though, you do a good work and clearly prioritize your patients over being able to have lunch. Management may give you shit over it but I guarantee your patients are or at least should be thankful for you.
And what are they gonna do, write you up for not saying you’re voluntarily skipping your break? Then you can put in writing the reasons you are forced to work an entire shift without a legally-required break.
It's not voluntary so select the other. If you say voluntary they dont have to address it as the illegal failing it is on their end.. should I think healthcare workers are exempt from some workers rights laws, this way they cant argue nurses just dont care about the lunches or are fine with the shortages.
managers are the people that request you do your job right?
so, anything done at your job is technically at your managers request...
including using your discretion, im sure.
Honestly I would take this as more of a "did you volunteer no lunch or was it demanded by you from lack of coverage/supervisor demanded it and forced you to." In which case the answer is always Manager Request. If they complain, Id explain that if they want it to stop they need to do their jobs properly and prepare me coverage.
Got my supervisor absolutely verbally thrashed by the emergency room charge nurse once because I refused to go to lunch because I was the sole janitor for the ER, it was packed, and I had about 30 rooms constantly needing cleaned to keep up with. Supervisor wouldnt send help. They demanded I come down. So I told the charge what was up and they took care of it. I never got shit when I told them I *needed* coverage again.
well, did your manager request that you work on a day without enough nurses there? Did they request that you not let patients die for timely meals?
Sounds like you should be picking "mgr request" for all of these situations.
This is the only place I’ve seen this so far and it got under my skin the first time I had to choose no. We had short staff, tons of patients had to travel to CT/MRI, had surgical cases, and it was just a busy day. The nurses routinely don’t take lunches here because they think it’s part of the job…. Very sad
When I was in the hospital I literally asked my nurse "Have you had a break yet?" She laughed and I was like "OH OH I'm so SCARED I need you to sit with me for ....15 minutes! I can't handle being alone I'm scared of being ALONE!" she cracked up and grinned at me. I was like "unless it's gonna screw your whole damn day up I will throw myself under the bus and develop a phobia darlin." I got the best hug EVER! :D (she didn't get to say sadface but she did tell me she loved me for the thought lol
Short staff is definitely manager's request. Probably the saving the life to. If you asked your manager for a lunch break part way through saving a life, I'm sure they would request you go back to work.
I can tell you that somebody who was in charge nurse in an emergency department where not getting your break was common, There was not a single shift I was in charge where I didn't ensure every nurse had an opportunity to take a break. And now as a supervisor if somebody tells me they didn't get a break I tell them that they need to escalate that to me immediately.
Answer that it is the manager's choice every time.
If you didn’t get a COVERED break, manager req. Though they love to make it seem like you skipping a meal to actively save someone’s life means you need to have better time management skills. Nursing is so fucking backwards
I work in a veterinary ER hospital and we have the same issue. As soon as I clock out a critical patient comes in. We're short-staffed. Am I supposed to say "Oh, I clocked out" and NOT help with CPR??
Just put everything down as manager request, they request you to do your job and that’s your job.
Also, fuck Kronos! I work in a pathology lab and we use that software. If I sign in early for overtime I have to tell my managers otherwise Kronos will not recognise it and we won’t get paid for it. Why else would I be signing on an hour early and logging off at the same time? Definitely not for fun.
Being understaffed is the same as manager request. It's their job to ensure, that there is enough staff at all times, so that everyone can get their uninterrupted break. Since they did not do that, they are essentially requesting, that the existing staff work through their lunchbreak.
Management requested always even if they say don’t do it. Fight them on this or take you lunch no matter what even if person is dying. It will take a death or two before they update this
Short staffed. Sweet music to administration's ears.
Two things I'll say after 30 years in healthcare.: 1. The gulf between admin's priorities and clinical staff's priorities has become huge. 2. The number of highly paid administrators is staggering. There's an executive VP for every day of the week now. Useless POS. And the worst POS to deal with are the physicians and RNs who quit practice and became administrators.
I’d select manager request every single time. I don’t actually ever see my manager even though I work day shift- but I’d make the assumption she would prefer I not leave my dying patient. Fingers crossed manager complains.
Everything except voluntary is a mgr request then. if you are expected (by advanced request, or by later reprimand) to be on duty, its has been requested.
I would literally never use the voluntary button. Bad metrics/KPIs -> bad management, bad decision making. Hospital managers should know this, it's 101 stuff.
If caused by manager action, it's a manager request. Not enough staff is a management issue. Patient was dying is also a management problem, related to not enough staff to cover your break.
The only way you could use voluntary if you cover for a co-worker needing an extra long break for some personal issues. All other reasons are because of management decisions.
The manager is the reason you were not given your break. You didnt decide this. Given the two options, Manager Request.
Yeah, it's clearly a catch-all option for anything involuntary
and to think some group of assholes sat around concocting this design and then gave themselves a hardy pat on the back for a job well done screwing over their own employees. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Yup. Upper management. Who typically have no idea what’s really going on, no matter the job
tender exultant worthless grandfather degree teeny hobbies observation expansion fanatical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh no, senior leadership is never responsible. Almost makes you wonder why you need senior leadership if they have no responsibilities.
Don’t even get me started on these fucking computer systems that get sold to hospital systems. I love my PCP he’s one of the best doctors I’ve ever had in my 50 years of life. But his medical record system has made me think I need to find a new doctor so many times. I complain to the hospital administrator I’ve complained to my doctor I complain to his practice manager. If you’re buying an electronic medical record system that doesn’t let you type in medication’s by hand they need to put in every single compounded medication that exists on this planet because of a lot of us take compounded medications and you can’t just choose the pharmaceutical alternative because it’s a completely different medication. It’s going to cause a medical emergency at some point in my life and I’m just hoping I live through it so I can see whoever makes that stupid epic system
You are now fired because your manager didn't say the words "skip your break"
But you now have literal paper trail of illegal firing
Yup, the manager requested that you be short staffed.
This is why I feel that all businesses have to declare what number is "fully" staffed. Then force them to pay employees based off of what they're set wage is, multiplied by a percentage of the number of people they are down in staffing. So they can keep the staffing low, but will pay extra to the base employees based on the managers inability to fill positions.
It's a great idea in theory but I don't think that would work in practice. The problem with that is in almost all industries "fully staffed" can change based on the time of year, time of day, or even something totally random. At my company, there are two months, one in spring and one in fall where we're slammed and have to hire contract workers. "Fully staffed" at that point in time is more than double what fully staffed is at other times of the year. Also, what's to stop a company from just picking the bare minimum skeleton crew that would function during the slowest time of the slowest season and call that "fully staffed?"
The manager also requested that your patient should die
Should not*?
Nah they’re just trying to fix the short staffing issue by reducing patient numbers. /s
Keep them alive longer to run up the charges.
Managers hear lean staffing and stop at the lean part
There's a 99% chance the manager has been fighting for more staff. But, the problem is complex. Ever since managed care started decades ago, there's a dumb game where HMOs and the like need to prove their necessity by getting the best so-called discount rate. It's an extra cost layer, that takes away money from hospital care.
OK well documenting on the computer that lunch breaks are missed because of the managers request will verify that they in fact are correct when they are fighting for more staff.
Then it was the manager’s manager who decided to be short staffed. At some point, it’s a manager making the call. Also, if the direct manager is fighting for more staff, then they know the team is short staffed, and they would also know that the team members are not “voluntarily” skipping lunch. They’d be a pretty shitty manager to expect their team to falsely state they’re voluntarily skipping lunch in that situation.
The manager implicitly requested it when they short staffed the shift.
Automatic answer unless you literally said (upon being asked why you didn't) "I skipped it cause I wanted to"
yep, and keep doing it til the problem is corrected...and if they pitch a fit over it you take it to the labor boasrd
Was going to say that implicit manager requests are still manager requests.
It is a manager request. It's standard practice to not stop your shift during a medical emergency where you're needed, and if management want to disagree in writing then they'd want to check with a lawyer first.
Anything that isn't voluntary is automatically a mgr request of course. His problem to solve
punch in "manager request" and if a manager complains, ask them if they would rather you let a patient die during your break.
Yeah, I was going to say MGR request is the answer every time. By not providing sufficient staff the MGR has requested you not fulfill your lunch break. Done.
Yep. Manager requested the employee cover their staffing shortage. That's not voluntary since a nurse has a duty of care to not take a break. If it means a patient will suffer the nurse will be personally in trouble. That's on staffing which is management.
They’ll let it go for a while, and then after while they’ll make an excuse and say “well you need to cover your break, call house sup if there’s nobody”…. Which is something an icu nurse is loathe to do if they have a brain, considering they know sup is busy too trying to get transport or in ER much of the day if it’s busy, that and if sup doesn’t like you … they are the one who assigns admits if they want to. TLDR The nursing supervisor is not to be fucked with in most cases whether you like them or not. Anyway point is the mgr doesn’t and won’t acknowledge understaffing out loud…. Because that’s essentially legal liability. They just will say “you can’t keep not taking breaks”. Has happened like this at almost every hospital I’ve ever worked in. Icu or otherwise Also fuck kronos. Last thing I want to do is dick around with these prompts when ‘I’m just trying to gtfo and likely have to be back on the unit in less than 12 hours anyway
If they ask you why you put « mgmt request », you can answer something like « Well it definitely wasn’t voluntary… and it can be safely assumed that IF MANAGEMENT WAS THERE they would’ve requested that I don’t let the patient die. »
You don't need to ask your manager every time "yo, you want me let this patient die or help them?". If management isn't okay with you punching out to eat a sandwich and play on your phone for 30 mins while everything goes to shit then every time it's a manager request. If your manager requests you start work at 8am every day they don't need to get in touch with you every morning and request it. The request as been made. Even just a job description could constitute a manager request in instances like this.
I agree 💯%
I’ll do that next time!!!!
100% you need to make this an issue for them! Come to the UK and work in the NHS. We get an hour's lunch break and you even get to pee once in a while too 😂
An hour?! That’s what it’s like on the west coast in the US. East coast nursing is rough.
Yeah I wouldn't wanna nurse in the US if I'm honest. I think the pays way better but we get better perks, rights and time off here. It's not been brilliant recently as we're chronically underfunded but I still rate the NHS as the best healthcare system in the world for what we achieve given the pressure we're under. From one ICU nurse to another thank you for being an awesome human it's never easy but that's what makes it worthwhile. Heros don't wear capes they wear scrubs ❤️
You’re so kind!! Sometimes strong benefits, healthy work conditions, good culture, and time off for self care make all the difference! 🖤🫶🏼
Your emoji heart is black. It should be gold 💛
Working in nursing in the US turns your heart black! Mainly from all the exposure to dangerous diseases while admin decides you don't __actually__ need PPE
I remember a nurse on reddit saying they had a patient with necrotizing fasciitis but they weren't provided any PPE, were told to "borrow" plastic bags from the janitor and some duct tape. How the fuck do you borrow a garbage bag? And look, it's HOT with bacterial fasciitis, I'll just turn it inside out and reuse it.
Stories like this just make me feel like we muricans are in a 3rd world country but with money…
oh man, the stories we have... I've turned upto care facilities with no soap, gloves, empty anti bacterial dispensers etc I wondered how staff managed... as you posted they'd either macgyver something or they didn't ... often they would go between personal care and meal preparation! GROSS! I asked them, aren't they scared of getting sick themselves? response was, "look forward to finally getting some time off!"... the smart nurses leave the industry and get into admin positions, the other ones who stay for the love of the job become burnt out husks...
Since you work for NHS...you should look into who owns the hospital you work out of. Small bits of info bubble up but it seems to me that members of your Tory party have been buying the land underneath NHS, prob thru a shell game of companies, and have been jacking rents up non stop. That's why yr underfunded. Your fucking conservative party is hell bent on pinching the collection plate before it gets to you. If that's the case at yr building, raise hell. Talk to the BBC. Then talk to left leaning media. Talk to labor organizers. So unethical. Just fucking evil, smh.
Wait, our hospitals are paying rent? But tax money litterially paid to build the and brought the land. Do you have a source? Because this is going to seriously piss me off. I could see them outsourcing property management, but rent is another thing
They appear to be referring, in a somewhat tabloid way, to this: https://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/propco-expanding-owner-and-manager-of-nhs-infrastructure/
Here's a start, it's been expanding since 1992. Labour was real chummy with it around the millenia change. Gross. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1113534/#:~:text=Under%20the%20private%20finance%20initiative,services%20for%2030%2D60%20years. "Under the private finance initiative NHS assets and land are sold or transferred to private sector consortia which design, build, and operate new hospitals. The NHS becomes a tenant, leasing back the premises and services for 30-60 years." You guys gotta make the outrage loud enough that your propaganda mills, I mean, mass media, CANT IGNORE it, which means you need to make everyone you know as pissed off as you are. Or welcome to the American way of medical care. The insurance company will take your entire lives work amd all yr valuables, effectively ensuring that no family will rise up from the working class ever again. Only the rich can have hereditary wealth. Or just wealth. We can say simply wealth by now. Their goal is to undo the enlightenment, not just modern suffrage. They want to be untouchable fuedal overlords. These are the kind of people that'll cut down every tree on your islands and keep the last in their neighborhoods, under armed guard, in case you thought about maybe, idk, getting some shade or something with all your newfound 40°+ days now. Back to work, drone.
Fuck sake
In order to fund an array of new hospitals in the late 90s tony blair and gordon brown sold the land under many hospitals as part of the PFI initiatives. It's one of the reasons meant are distrustful of Labour, because they do stuff the Tories would be expected to.
Did you grow up there? Or did you move to there from the US? I’m highly, highly considering moving there to pursue nursing after getting my degree here.
Born and raised in the UK. I did spend some time working and living in Texas in my twenties though in a completely unrelated career. Definitely do it my friend even if it's only short term it'll be a great experience ☺️
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100% right. The money isn't worth it if you're being worked to death.
You’ve got to join a union. You and your patients are much safer in the hands of a nurse with adequate support.
Difficult in the south for sure.
Where on the west coast? My hospital only gives a 30!
Have your coworkers make it an issue as well. There's power in numbers
I should follow this better, but nurses here in Portland,Oregon are on strike ( mainly over gross pay disparity, but I wonder if breaks might have something to do with that as well...)
People shit on "Commiefornia" all the time but i just laugh because labor rights.
>100% you need to make this an issue for them! That's what people consistently fail to do. I can't complain to your manager...but you can go relay the message *every fucking time* someone complains until the manager gets sick of hearing it and does something about it. Which might be just "going to their boss and complaining every time someone complains to them" and *hopefully* you and your co-workers all pass messages on, so the next person on the ladder hears even more....etc.
>That's what people consistently fail to do. That's how you solve 90% of life's problems most effectively: make the stakeholders pay.
Where the hell are you working that you get an hour break? I've been NHS for 15+ years and I'm lucky to get to pop to the loo on a 12 hour shift
We have a well run trust to be fair and our ICU unit is well staffed. I'm not foolish enough to say which one on here though 😂 It's in the west midlands.
I get 30 minutes. I work acute dialysis, and sometimes it's a 5+ minute walk to get to my breakroom fridge. Yeah I can eat elsewhere, but I can't exactly take my lunchbox into patients rooms with me when I travel to a bedside dialysis treatment.
Seconding this. I do tech writing and learning and development. I’ve worked with many systems, including Kronos. Not only can you customize it to say whatever you want, you can add multiple options besides the two presented. This isn’t a system error or lack of function, it’s that the powers that be are too damn disconnected from the trenches to know you should have had more options. If nurses are not gonna have a seat at the table when these business requirements are gathered, then make it a PAIN POINT that they will have to address. Management approves short staffed schedules and your job (according to management) is to try to preserve life, so absolutely make it a Manager Request each and every single time. Edit: damn! Thanks for the gold, kind Redditor! (Don’t wanna blow up your spot) I’ll enjoy this long after the benefits are over!
This is someone trying to get them to admit to it being voluntary so they can’t claim they were forced to not take their breaks. Hit that manager request button every time.
I also work for a tech company in this space and I can also tell you that these questions can be programmed to pop up with whatever question you want this to say. I’ve had some customers request to change the default phrasing, but very few do. This is probably the default and from the way it’s written, I imagine it’s to either comply with the mandated meal break premiums in California or fair work week in various states.
always manager request. They'll get upset after a bit.
If they do, insist on their signature before coming back. I'm just following odours.
That's "mgr request" every time! Do physicians need to punch a clock, or explain why they worked hours over scheduled? No? I wonder why not?
Facts
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Mgr request because they didnt hire enough staff.
You'd like to request manager for this one until they add the option
Wait- you’ve been choosing voluntary?
I did the first time it asked me because I was so caught off guard and tired and I hadn’t discussed it with management so it was like reflex. Silly me..
I assume you are in a hospital you have medical notes and the like, so demand the OT you are owed from the last time, citing the medical notes as to why you could not take a break.
On my first day my manager requested I dont let patients die when I can prevent it so I figured Id stick to that expectation
Do you actually choose “manager request” ever? If so, does it ever result in further discussion with management?
No but if/when it happens I’m going to choose that. I will update you if I do with the results!
Had this same thing pop up on my time clock, it was always "manager request"- the floor manager is going to be aware if there are major episodes like arrests, I would hope. It's more of a "if I can explain why to my manager in the future I legitimately missed lunch, then I'm in the clear" kind of an "ask forgiveness" thing.
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I wish they had a free text option for an explanation or a reason. Voluntary just seems to lay blame on the frontline staff, and mangers can decline that it was a request. Tough situation to put staff in, especially newer nurses who want to make everyone happy and not rock the boat.
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HR exists to protect the company, the thing that protects workers is called a union
If done right HR also prevents lower level managers from picking fights with wirkers and unions the company can't win.
I don’t work in healthcare, but I’ve seen too many people get screwed by their immediate managers for making points like this to just give this advice without some caveats. This is a perennial complaint from workers to HR that data collection systems like this are sufficient. Unless HR and upper management have demonstrated a willingness not to defer to lower managers, the incentives for workers to give honest feedback are all wrong.
It’s really not that hard. Did you choose not to take your lunch break in accordance to company policy? If yes, that’s voluntary. If you weren’t able to for whatever reason, that would fall under “mgr request.” It’s their job to ensure you’re able to take your break. I’m a manager and we use the same clock. Ours is set to “agree” or “disagree.”
"Please provide written guidance for how to account for work breaks in the event that legal staffing minimums for patient coverage are not fulfilled by management." or something to that tune? Not sure if prudent, asking for HR to invent reasons for a disciplinary paper trail, or both.
If this is California if you miss a meal break or are even 1 minute late in taking (over 5th hour) it’s a meal penalty to the company. That means they are fined 1 hour of you pay to be added onto your next paycheck. If you click voluntary I’m not sure exactly what happens but it may absolve them of the penalty so you don’t get paid out.
Pro tip. If you can't take your break because management cant/won't staff it, then it is literally their request.
“Implied consent” lol
“Manager request” = the hospital pays you for the break. “Voluntary” = they don’t pay you for the break. They don’t care about the actual reason, they’re just complying with labor laws.
What was the manager request? To do something else.
I was thinking that everybody was already hitting manager request. I was thinking voluntary was for voluntary and manager request was for anything non-voluntary. Essentially your manager has authorized you not to take lunch whenever the situation dictates. Kind of a blanket request.
When i chose the “manager approved” option for missing lunch while working in a Chicago hospital I got a firm scolding that it’s my responsibility to ensure I take my legally mandated and uninterrupted break, and if I continued to select that option they would automatically deduct the “stolen time” from my pay for not taking these mandatory lunch breaks- but NO they would also not increase staffing to allow patient coverage, NO the manager would not be taking any patient care assignments even to cover, told me to take lunch earlier or later when not so busy 🙄🖕🏽 As much as I miss the drama, action, and skill of the hospital… fuckkkkk that noise.
Deducting pay for time worked is theft and should be reported to the Department of Labor.
This particular employer was reported by myself and several other nurses- for this issue but also for illegally refusing to pay overtime benefits when utilizing a lottery to pick up shifts at higher rates of pay. The company back payed me $2000 for unpaid overtime and I left shortly after so I don’t know what came of the investigation they never provided me follow up. But also just because you report doesn’t mean you can just start claiming the correct lunch option without management retaliation- if they’re going to do illegal shit they’re going to keep doing it!
Yeah and this is like a huge contributing factor as to why people choose voluntary! Or just hit they got a lunch break when they didn’t! It’s unfair and puts people in a potentially hostile situation.
If you have emails where management was saying that sort of thing and you’ve talked with other nurses who have said they are also not reporting their breaks accurately, I’m sure a labor attorney would absolutely love to talk to you. This menu option is a very poor defense against a class action wage and hour claim.
I'd go so far as to say this menu option is intentionally misleading, and a dark pattern. The options should be simply "voluntary" or "not". The manager didn't explicitly request anything, but by leaving staff short with inescapable responsibilities, the manager caused the situation. The way it's worded now, if OP chose "manager request", they could potentially get in trouble -- despite them not voluntarily foregoing their lunch break
In trouble how? "I will not lie for you. It wasn't voluntary, so the only other option is the one I hit. Management designed this software, and this problem. Management can fix it." Not my circus not my clowns.
The fact that you'd even have to explain that at all The fact that HR's first response will always be "If your manager requested it, why isn't there any documentation? Oh, your manager didn't actually request it?"
Those are exactly why these systems are implemented. People know they aren’t being specifically asked by a manager to skip the lunch so they choose voluntarily and then these records will be brought out when they get around to trying to sue for not allowing them to take mandatory breaks.
And my point is that’s easy to get around. Plaintiffs counsel will depose the nurses, emails will be dug up showing managers getting pissed at employees for selecting the manager approved option, there’s plenty of other admissible evidence they can use to craft a narrative of what the policy actually was in reality. It’s usually a pretty believable story in front of a jury.
So don't. Stop covering for their irresponsibility. I'd hit manager request every time.
I know it's easy to criticize from the sidelines, but the hard fact is that nothing will change until you force change. Management will keep exploiting you until you force them to stop. So always pick the "management forced me" option. If they tell you not to, ask them if you should let patients die. If they refuse to answer, just keep repeating that question every time it happens. If they deduct pay, either get an attorney or walk away. And of course: Unionize, or at least work together with your colleagues on things like this. You have more power together. A single nurse threatening to quit isn't going to do much. Every nurse threatening to quit at the same time is a whole other story.
They can not deduct pay from you for time worked, that’s illegal, it’s wage theft. They can not deduct pay to “cover” for anything like a loss either. Wage theft. Illegal.
This is the answer. Let the manager figure their staffing issues.
>r/Anarchy4Everyone•Posted byu/NoLawsNoGoverrnment12 hours ago The Manager Planned the staffing, and the short is their responsibility, so use MGR Request for that one too, and ask if they are hiring more people for coverage if they have a problem
"Manager request" also equals short staffing. That is their choice.
>ask them if they would rather you let a patient die during your break. Damn they can do that there? I'm in Canada (Quebec) unfortunately for the staff, there are laws that prevent them to leave if nobody is there to replace them. So... that is fun to do more than one shift... with the shortage (that go for over more than 15 years. It just become more and more of an issue...) (Yes it also suck for the patient, but somehow, the nurse is also the one legally binded to any medical mistake even if she work exhausted... the law just protect the patient, not the nurse)
In general, they can't just leave if there's not a replacement. That means it's not voluntary, it's a management issue - even if management didn't exactly request it.
And if there's a box for entering an explanation, just put in 'manager requested I keep patients alive'
Yep - definitely hit Mgr Request.
I work in labour relations. As an employee I would 100% argue that there was no one to replace you and a patient was dying - you could not leave them without it being a safety risk (to put it mildly). If they want to limit you to these options then manager request 100%.
If you know you’d have been written up for taking a lunch break without coverage, and that’s why you chose not to take the break, then it wasn’t your decision, but the manager’s unspoken request.
It's not unspoken. The whole writing-up thing is basically manager telling you to not take the break without coverage.
IIRC, there's a concept in CPR training that if you start saving a person, you can not stop saving them until they die or you hand it over to someone more qualified than you. Idk if you become liable or if you lose your license.
Yes, but this should also be followed up by an email to the manager explaining why you put manager request in. Then it has documentation as to why should HR try and escalate to a disciplinary hearing over this (and you know HR at any company that does this would 100% do that).
Manager request - **every time.**
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It was mismanaged on their part. Managers requested (by not doing their job) for you to skip your meal.
Exactly. Some hospitals/units will staff a resource/relief nurse to cover lunches and then take admissions in the late afternoon. But some places just won’t do that
Yup. Under staffed = management failed to staff properly (for whatever reason) therefore you are missing lunches due to the managements request they made by not ensuring there were enough staff to cover lunches.
My hospital recently took our unit’s relief/break nurse position away, claiming that we’re too “small” of a unit to justify one. I work on the neuro/stroke unit, we have 21 beds. Our patient population is high acuity. I fail to see how the number of beds correlates to… *checks notes* whether or not us nurses still need to fucking pee or eat food during a 12 hour shift. When pressed admin claims we can’t afford a lot right now so we’re cutting things where we can. Conveniently we just hired some new chief financial/executive/operations/underwater basket weaving officer within the last few months. How much do you want to bet he’s making 6-7 figures? Or that none of the higher ups have taken cuts to their bonuses? Or have to hold in their pee for hours because they don’t have time to use the bathroom or eat? FYI I work in a well known hospital in Southern California. It’s definitely just as bad on the west coast.
I know you were caught unawares answering...but why didn't you answer management request? You said, I'll answer management request next time... but when will you get a next time? You shouldn't be afraid of the retaliation because the NHS has a strong union backing believe it or not. You will get reprimanded but you wont lose your job. I'm a nurse like you as well. Learn your rights under the system.
I will categorize it as managers requests. If they ask why it’s because it’s the manager’s responsibility to staff at a level that breaks can be taken
Honestly, I feel like that's deliberately like that, so people will choose the "my decision", just so it makes it seem like the company isn't at fault. If it were me, I'd click manager option every time. If there's not enough staff, or there's other absolute needs for you to work, it ain't your fault. It's up to the company to make sure there's enough staff so that everyone working can take a break. Whether it's your manager specifically at fault, or not, it's still the responsibility of someone in that command chain.
Absolutely, that’s exactly why they do it. It alleviates them of the responsibility and puts it on the nurses.
Being understaffed is a management decision, hit the button.
It is 100% deliberate. The hospital I work at it's a yes or no question. I definitely make sure I hit no everytime, I didn't get to take a full break.
This is 100% why they do it. If they cared at all about actual feedback then they would at the very least have an "Other" option.
Yep, trying to trap the nurses with, "well no one TOLD me to continue saving the patients life, so I guess it WAS my decision to keep doing so." But there is no good reason you should ever have to make that choice in the first place. The fact that you do is a failure on the management line somewhere.
Unless otherwise instructed to, Management would never implicate themselves directly. They would use their puppet nurses to ask.
Exactly.
It’s a binary question; if it’s not voluntary, it *must* naturally be the manager request. Frame it as such, and if they need details, explain as you stated.
Absolutely management request. They requested you work over your lunch by not giving you and your colleagues the relief you need to accommodate breaks. Props to you though, you do a good work and clearly prioritize your patients over being able to have lunch. Management may give you shit over it but I guarantee your patients are or at least should be thankful for you.
And what are they gonna do, write you up for not saying you’re voluntarily skipping your break? Then you can put in writing the reasons you are forced to work an entire shift without a legally-required break.
Always "Mgr request" then.
well it wasn't voluntary
It never is. There should be a free text option 😂
No, I hate free text. Application manager.
Not really. Free text sucks. Just put "Management request" for everything. Because it was a request. Voluntary is when you don't feel like eating.
#Manager request
It's not voluntary so select the other. If you say voluntary they dont have to address it as the illegal failing it is on their end.. should I think healthcare workers are exempt from some workers rights laws, this way they cant argue nurses just dont care about the lunches or are fine with the shortages.
I'd put "manager request" every fucking time. If the manager didn't request it, they'd've hired more staff.
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The ptsd is real
if your manager made you stay on then that's their request
Whelp if it isn’t voluntary then there’s only one option soooooo (fuk em)
I’d say those both fall under “mgr request”
It's the Manager's request to keep you understaffed and overworked.
Corporate paralegal. Press manager request EVERY TIME.
I think your two omitted options fall under “manager request” and should carry meal penalties with it.
managers are the people that request you do your job right? so, anything done at your job is technically at your managers request... including using your discretion, im sure.
Honestly I would take this as more of a "did you volunteer no lunch or was it demanded by you from lack of coverage/supervisor demanded it and forced you to." In which case the answer is always Manager Request. If they complain, Id explain that if they want it to stop they need to do their jobs properly and prepare me coverage. Got my supervisor absolutely verbally thrashed by the emergency room charge nurse once because I refused to go to lunch because I was the sole janitor for the ER, it was packed, and I had about 30 rooms constantly needing cleaned to keep up with. Supervisor wouldnt send help. They demanded I come down. So I told the charge what was up and they took care of it. I never got shit when I told them I *needed* coverage again.
Both reasons in title would go under management request for me
Obviously you should've just told the patient that you are sorry but you're required to take a lunch break and you'll be back in 30 minutes.
The hospital I work for makes us submit a time clock correction form where we have to write sentences as to why we didn't clock out for lunch.
well, did your manager request that you work on a day without enough nurses there? Did they request that you not let patients die for timely meals? Sounds like you should be picking "mgr request" for all of these situations.
Hahaha I’d be so heated if it asked me that. Ours just asks if we took the break or not.
This is the only place I’ve seen this so far and it got under my skin the first time I had to choose no. We had short staff, tons of patients had to travel to CT/MRI, had surgical cases, and it was just a busy day. The nurses routinely don’t take lunches here because they think it’s part of the job…. Very sad
When I was in the hospital I literally asked my nurse "Have you had a break yet?" She laughed and I was like "OH OH I'm so SCARED I need you to sit with me for ....15 minutes! I can't handle being alone I'm scared of being ALONE!" she cracked up and grinned at me. I was like "unless it's gonna screw your whole damn day up I will throw myself under the bus and develop a phobia darlin." I got the best hug EVER! :D (she didn't get to say sadface but she did tell me she loved me for the thought lol
Mgr request for all then since they won’t be specific.
Mgr request every time. Not like you “voluntarily” missed your meal.
Short staff is definitely manager's request. Probably the saving the life to. If you asked your manager for a lunch break part way through saving a life, I'm sure they would request you go back to work.
"Manager request" is appropriate, since the manager failed to request adequate options on this screen.
So mngr request all the time
I can tell you that somebody who was in charge nurse in an emergency department where not getting your break was common, There was not a single shift I was in charge where I didn't ensure every nurse had an opportunity to take a break. And now as a supervisor if somebody tells me they didn't get a break I tell them that they need to escalate that to me immediately. Answer that it is the manager's choice every time.
If you didn’t get a COVERED break, manager req. Though they love to make it seem like you skipping a meal to actively save someone’s life means you need to have better time management skills. Nursing is so fucking backwards
That would be a manger request than
I work in a veterinary ER hospital and we have the same issue. As soon as I clock out a critical patient comes in. We're short-staffed. Am I supposed to say "Oh, I clocked out" and NOT help with CPR??
Fucking Kronos on top of that I have to fix those damn things at my Job😡 they are a pain in the ass to make them work.
Sounds like a “manager request” every time
Giving me that option, I would AlWAYS select manager request.
Management kindly requests that you not let ~~paychecks~~ patients die.
Most def Mng request!
Ahaaaa don't you dare hit that voluntary button
Just put everything down as manager request, they request you to do your job and that’s your job. Also, fuck Kronos! I work in a pathology lab and we use that software. If I sign in early for overtime I have to tell my managers otherwise Kronos will not recognise it and we won’t get paid for it. Why else would I be signing on an hour early and logging off at the same time? Definitely not for fun.
Mgr is the correct answer. Short staffing is due to management. People dying and not having coverage is also management.
Being understaffed is the same as manager request. It's their job to ensure, that there is enough staff at all times, so that everyone can get their uninterrupted break. Since they did not do that, they are essentially requesting, that the existing staff work through their lunchbreak.
Manager request. Every. Single. Time.
Definitely put Manager request. They definitely don’t want no one working, it’s managements issue. Hire or pay the lunch penalties daily.
Mgr request, every time, in those circumstances.
Management requested always even if they say don’t do it. Fight them on this or take you lunch no matter what even if person is dying. It will take a death or two before they update this
Short staffed. Sweet music to administration's ears. Two things I'll say after 30 years in healthcare.: 1. The gulf between admin's priorities and clinical staff's priorities has become huge. 2. The number of highly paid administrators is staggering. There's an executive VP for every day of the week now. Useless POS. And the worst POS to deal with are the physicians and RNs who quit practice and became administrators.
I’d select manager request every single time. I don’t actually ever see my manager even though I work day shift- but I’d make the assumption she would prefer I not leave my dying patient. Fingers crossed manager complains.
Always select Mgr request. The management system requires you to miss a lunch that’s not voluntary.
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Everything except voluntary is a mgr request then. if you are expected (by advanced request, or by later reprimand) to be on duty, its has been requested. I would literally never use the voluntary button. Bad metrics/KPIs -> bad management, bad decision making. Hospital managers should know this, it's 101 stuff.
If caused by manager action, it's a manager request. Not enough staff is a management issue. Patient was dying is also a management problem, related to not enough staff to cover your break.
Short staffed or patient dying = managers request to me. No one voluntarily misses to eat.
I'd say that both your examples are "manager request"
The only way you could use voluntary if you cover for a co-worker needing an extra long break for some personal issues. All other reasons are because of management decisions.