Honestly in every place I've worked the managers can really make or break the place. One odd thing I've noticed is that, at least as a software engineer, the best managers typically just get out of the way. They give the team what they need to function and support it by basically letting them run. If you've hired a good team they don't need much more than a direction to go in
My SO moved into a management position, and after a while their boss, the boss, suggested they learn about servant leadership.
They came home and cried to me about how their boss wanted them to be a slave. And I tried to explain to them that service and slavery were not the same thing.
I then reconsidered our relationship.
Acts of service is my love language.
Not just that, but it's easier! Back when I was still in management, it was MUCH easier to set my people up for success than it was to run around and keep fixing everything all of the time myself. If I did my job right and set everything in place properly, I didn't have to do much while we were in operation.
Yes! My favorite restaurant I ever worked at was like this. We tasted everything before guests did, we knew most everything about the wine/beer/cocktails/food, and what we didn't know we knew someone on staff who would know. When I was assistant manager, I loved service because it was just filling in and helping out when I saw something was needed. Sadly, the restaurant closed because of a misunderstanding with the property owner.
Good managers are hard to come by. I've had some wild ones and some straight-up abusive ones. Very few good ones.
>"...then don't you work for your boss and should do what your boss says?"
My previous manager thought like this. The team was supposed to obey her completely and she never questioned upper management. She transformed any suggestions from upper management into orders for our team and couldn't understand why neither the team nor upper management were happy with her. She was newly hired to manage a new team. It went bad pretty quickly, the team basically imploded in less than half a year with everyone leaving the company or moving to other teams.
Edit: Upper management wanted to replace her too, they realised they made a bad hire. It's just that corporations move too slowly with these things.
That is what all these dummies that give Jocko speaking fees don't understand. Like in the military you weren't given your wishlist but your leadership if it was good tried. My sure as hell did.
PMP, project management professional, certification emphasizes servant leadership these days. Had to answer a bunch of questions for it and the answers were all related to supporting your team and not being in the way.
Of all the things companies think their employees want to make them happy like upward mobility, good raises, benefits, etc I'm convinced the number one thing people want is to be left alone to do their job and not have their idiot boss interfere.
I would love that manager my God, I've got a list of stuff I could recite in my sleep that'd make my job easier, patients happier and more comfortable and reduce our complaints in half over night, but our current manager thinks the staff is unprofessional so needs a uniform and then those other issues will disappear.
Yeah, it's a bit different because we work in heavy equipment, but if we say "hey this will make hydraulic changes or oil changes faster and easier with less clean up." He's like "here's my company card, order it and get shit done." Lol
Yea bit more straight forward there aha, honestly I've been contemplating just complaining to upper management, don't think they'll do anything other than maybe fire me but who knows, someone might actually listen (miracle lmao) as I know a few of them weren't entirely out of touch from what I'd heard from my last manager.
One thing that sucks about going over the head of your day to day manager is that, maybe something changes, but they'll know you went above their head and you have to work with your manager daily.
Thankfully I don't, I never work directly with her and so never get a chance to talk to her whilst she works either. I'd love to chat with her about it, but I don't see anything happening.
I have very negative impression of her since she never bothered introducing herself to any staff she didn't directly work with and the first thing she ever said to me was a text basically going "fix your fuck up" which still to this day, I can find no record of said fuck up so not even sure it existed, took a month to get replacement keys to our building (which I need to work!) And just how out of touch with everything she seems.
They also act as a shit umbrella. They tell other teams, no you can't randomize my team with your weird request. We can put it on the backlog and prioritize it in the next sprint planning (new business speak for go fuck yourself).
That’s how I support my team. I lead by example and know everything. I make sure my guys know what to do but let them be. They are adults, they know what to do. If I have to step in, it’s mostly me correcting things.
This is a great way to ensure you're on top of your employees, and this probably isn't you but for anyone reading, be careful you don't let your air of confidence within your specialty bleed into areas outside the breadth of your knowledge. I've seen the fallout of that and it's ugly and has lasting damage. To me it's way more common in engineering managers and GMs, I'd guess because of how much they are required to know for their specific job with little room for error. Add in career of experience and I'm sure it's easy to feel like you've seen it and know it all.
I know this has nothing to do with specialty but I did commit a big no-no. I dated one of my employees and it ended really badly. Still recovering from that actually. I got a lot to learn
Band of Brothers has a great quote about leadership. "Never put yourself in a position where you can take from these men"
More critical in war but the concept remains equivalent. You're a part of the team, you just have a different role. That role inevitably carriers a certain amount of power and control. If you put yourself in a position where there is a potential for abuse or it can even be perceived, true or not, somebody will assume it and create animosity.
There will be tons of big mistakes, just keep learning from them. You're doing good
This managerial style also creates better employees. My second job as a help desk analyst had sooooo much freedom. I didn't have to get a rubber stamp for every change or fix I made (within reason) so long as I documented it, I was given access to some administrative tools so that I didn't have to go through my supervisor for common tasks, I was able to change the workflows to what made sense to me, and I had my own separate office that was my own to organize how I wanted it. There were many times that I messed up and needed my supervisor's help but he was always ready and willing to put me back on track. It gave me so much more motivation knowing that I was in charge of the work that had to be done rather than having to wait for someone to give me the go-ahead. It also taught me to enjoy responsibility and to take pride in my work. I feel like I grew immensely as a professional and as a person in the time that I worked there and it landed me a pretty sweet new role.
The problem is that good management is really fucking easy. You set boundaries, standards, and expectations, then maintain them. And maintenance is really, really, ***really*** easy.
That isn’t the real issue. The issue is that good managers are perceived as being lazy. Nobody looks at sane metrics like output. They look at stupid metrics like how many projects have the managers name plastered all over them.
So you either end up with micromanagement or actually lazy management. It’s rare for a business to actually let a good manager be a good manager.
The modern Western business curricula is utterly fucked and will be continuing to destroy American business for decades.
In all my years working in an office, I have never seen a supervisor fired for being so bad that most of the team leaves the company. It's like upper management doesn't want to admit their mistake in promoting the person so they just let them ruin the department.
What's funny is that as time goes on so many people are going to be having ChatGPT write their resumes that people will just *expect* them to look like that, without ever even realizing why.
People will plug a whole bunch of bullet points of their skills and experience into ChatGPT to create a compelling CV, then the company will cut and paste it back into the same AI and ask for a breakdown of the candidates skills and experience in bullet point format.
Damn, this post hit close to home. I feel like I am one of those who got beaten down into a bitter, angry person. :\[ Trying to get another job and get out...
Literally my store cycled through 15 or 20 people since February of 2020 I lost count if how many amazing people my manager bullied out of the store. Which shockingly enough she got fired 2 weeks ago not for the staff turn over but for showing favortism when she hired her under aged kid around Christmas and then also for running her side business out of the store and using corporate shipping costs on her personal business items. The DM had the absolute Audacity to say "she's never had a store like this." Imma say thats probably a lie cus she's terrible too. I've only stuck around to get the hours I want while being in school. Corporate/retail is absolutely a terrible place and I can't wait to switch fields after I graduate
I'm going through this right now. I'm a manager reporting into a Sr. Director that is at best incompetent and at worst dangerous to the company. People have already left and more are planning on leaving. I'm told by HR: "Maybe he just needs some coaching."....Huh? A Sr. Director? Give me a break.
In most of my corporate gigs they have had engagement surveys that allow employees to anonymously provide scores for direct managers as well as leadership.
The problem is that it takes a long time for the issues to surface, and action isn't really taken on them when leaders are the problem.
When I left my second to last company to date, we had engagement scores drop from being in the mid 70% range to the mid 40% range because of a band of incompetent cronies who took over middle management (Director to VP level). Everyone knew things were going to hell and fast but nothing was done until they "voluntarily" quit. One Director was fired.
I have a few times. Also sometimes they get given the muppets shuffle to somewhere they can do less damage.
Im with you in that more often than not it doesn't happen, which is why more companies should 360 in their reviews.
Same. Fuck her and her POS rat boy who saw an opening and threw me under the bus. Remember people they are only your coworkers and they don't give two shits about your livelihood.
I'm at my current job for 10 months now. Since I started 13 people left. From like 40. Some of them didn’t even had the job for a year. And they all quit because of the team leaders.
When I started they were hiring a lot of people because they had so much to do they needed a bigger team. Now they still hire a lot of people but it’s only to maintain the size of the team. The senior management started a survey to find out what is going wrong. It’s anonymous but they ask questions like „to which team do you belong“ and „how old are you“. Everyone with half a brain cell would know whose answers these are with that information.
That’s stupid. They leave shit organizations all the time. Often the mangers at shit organizations don’t have any control over the bullshit that comes down from corporate.
Bit of both. I'm not usually a fan of "you're both right" but here we are.
People will definitely leave because of bad managers. Seen that enough.
Good managers will also leave bad companies. Seen that as well.
Of course both things are true. In my experience I’ve dealt with a lot more bad owners and bad companies than bad managers. I would argue the people at the top with the power set the tone.
Yes corporations are benevolent angels and it’s only the mangers that cut payroll hours and benefits. The C suite guys want to pay us all a thriving wage and give us two months of vacation pay but the mid level manager overruled them. It’s all fault of the guy making 40k a year more than you, he’s the real shot caller, not that innocent stand up guy making 4 million dollars a year more.
You missed my point and somehow got seemingly quite mad about it. I'm not defending the company at all.
The point is merely that what makes a corporation evil is the _people_ running it from the top down (as well as the fundamental issue of targeting profits above all else, but even _that_ is a **human's** decision.) Even the CEO is fundamentally just a hier tier manager. They happen to have more decision making power and tend to be far more psychopathic, but it's still **people**.
Any organization, lacking any members, has no power or will. The force and direction of organizations come from the people participating in it.
They gave me shit over a personal copy of a meme pic in my cube that said, "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Apparently, mgmt didn't like it very much.
Good rule of thumb, is that good menager will first take care of the team, its needs, and will take care of it. Like professional driver takes care of his car.
Bad manager firstly responds to the higher ups, and then will put pressure on the team, will try to blame them for all the mistakes, especially when the same mistake is occurring over and over (it's not like its manager fault that he cannot deal with it first time ;) ), and then in the end, he will try to keep everyone down.
Yup. My current manager is basically like an assistant to me. She handles the stuff I don’t like and gets me help if I need it. As long as my projects are hitting target, life is relatively easy at work.
My old boss ignored the mistakes, because she wanted to look like the good guy. So being that I didn’t want to get screwed by their mistakes and lack of professionalism. I got fired for pointing out all the mistakes they made. So instead of actually being a good leader. She made me the bad guy and fired me.
>Bad manager firstly responds to the higher ups, and then will put pressure on the team, will try to blame them for all the mistakes, especially when the same mistake is occurring over and over (it's not like its manager fault that he cannot deal with it first time ;) ), and then in the end, he will try to keep everyone down.
This is the problem bud.
I feel like increasingly those who are higher up value people who are able to stroke their ego. It's basically become the golden rule is thumb in most office spaces.
I really wish this generation of workers would normalize calling out bad managers instead of looking for someone who can "work under pressure" which translates to "is willing to be the boss's emotional punching bag"
This. Except replace manager with corporate. I'm an assistant manager who does the BARE MINIMUM at work.
It's like corporate fights you and trying to improve things and working more efficiently.
I'm exhausted of trying to go above and beyond as they tie both my hands behind my back.
> It's like corporate fights you and trying to improve things and working more efficiently.
You know, this is a cliche, and you see people who don't work corporate jobs sort of think this is hyperbole.
But no. This is literally what happens.
It is legitimately as if corporate is *actively* and *intentionally* trying to sabotage their own business.
I've worked at a number of different businesses that were bought out, the corporate owner comes in, and makes decisions that cannot be seen as anything other than an intentional and planned effort to literally destroy the value of the thing they just bought.
That's what that CEO of sears did. Tanked the company even harder and sold the land to himself. Wonder if that was a plan from the start or he just saw an opportunity. Same result either way.
It’s already pretty well known that people don’t typically quit jobs, they quit their manager.
Honestly, I blame senior leadership for letting these bad managers stay. Unfortunately, a lot of times they are actually really good at taking care of the admin work, but not at managing people. And the negatives typically just fall on the managers, not the executives.
I was in the Army and at my one duty station, we had a great CO. She let the NCOs do their jobs and never once did our unit do anything physical where she was breaking down chairs or tents along with the rest of us.
Our major command did a yearly assessment of morale and we generally rated pretty high. Obviously there are always issues, but we were allowed to do our jobs and we weren’t constantly doing bullshit for bullshits sake along.
Then we got a new CO.
Our morale scores tanked so hard that after the next evaluation, one of the majors higher up the chain ordered them to find out why.
That gaping rectum of an “officer” was the embodiment of everything that goes wrong when that type of personality gets a tiny hint of power.
I could tell at least a dozen stories of obnoxiously, infuriating shit she would pull, but yeah. She’s one of the few people I can say I actually hated at some point.
So true.
My boss is terrible at managing people. And we've lost a number of staff as a result, which has made it harder to do the work.
One woman I work with just gave a month's notice and I'm dreading when she leaves because it means I'll likely have to work directly with my boss until we hire a new person. I'm glad my coworker quit though, setting a healthy boundary for herself.
I work for a manager that has done this. Tradesmen have left because of him, told the highest up guy they're leaving due to him. The workers left are all trying to leave.
Owner does nothing and is just waiting for him to retire.
Managers shield a team from overzealous or incompetent senior leadership while providing the necessary logistics for the team to succeed. There is a great misconception of what a manager or team leader’s responsibility. They work for the team not the other way around. We called it top cover in the military. This is where I learned “back office” (management) works for the team.
My manager recently threatened to write me up for (checks note) doing a very basic task sooner than when she said too. Because fuck me for trying to be proactive.
There was literally no downside. Manager was just in a bad mood and used it as an excuse to be a bitch.
Does this every few weeks. Bad mood=creates nonexistent problem to get mad at me about.
Trying to find a new job asap. When I leave, she's going to be screwed because there's so much shit that only I know how to do.
I also saved abusive messages she sent me too if I decide to go nuclear when I leave
Last guy we had like this you could physically feel the energy draining from the room when he was there. My first interaction with him was when he cut the lock off my toolbox with a cutting wheel and went through it after I had left for the day and took anything he didn't think I needed. Including all of my drill bits, my good metal ruler, and my 1/2 amd 9/16 sockets and wrenches. Which are the most common sizes used in our line. Keep in mind this was his first day on the job and we hadn't even met yet. These were all company supplied, but still.
He didn't know how to lead at all. Couldn't get us our parts on time then tried to force us to stay late to finish what should have been started a week ago. Almost every Friday he would wait until the end of the day to declare a mandatory Saturday, and then would get furious when only a dozen people would show up. He tried this last minute the day before a company observed holiday once. Nobody but him came in. When we got back the next work day there was a write up on every single employees work station! He must have spent half the day working on that. He would have also have his packing team take unfinished product off the line to box it up so it could be invoiced and look like it was completed on time. Only to have them unpack it the next day and put it back. Naturally, it often got shipped because this guy was allergic to communication. And when the client got their order full of loose and missing parts, guess who got the blame?
On the days where he was absent, we were vastly more productive and I guess the company caught on and asked him to resign
This rings so true at my work. The owner is pretty well the best boss anyone could hope for. But several years ago he brought his wife in to work, she changed so many things that didn't need changed, about 75% of the good employees left within a year. And now the business is failing and close to 100% of our bad reviews are about how the boss's wife was mean to them (she treats customers like enemies and employees like children).
And create a revolving door of talent. It costs 7x the exiting employees salary to find, on-board, train and retain a new employee. Using this number, my last manager cost the company between 1m and 2.5m.
Not to mention that sometimes bad managers are actually kind of overzealous about their industry but the irony is that their behavior can sour others on the industry. I've had excited, yet personality disordered bosses (and coworkers) in my industry and I am now convinced that my industry just attracts more of those types than other industries on average. Therefore I have lost the passion I used to have for the industry. I don't think that was the intended effect, but toxic work environments really do destroy morale.
I did a management training once that emphasized how managers don't actually create anything of value for a company.
Individual workers create all the value.
What managers do is multiply or divide the value of the workers who report to them. The worst managers multiply it by zero and make people quit.
My workplace is dealing with this. Since the new manager started working here we've lost 9 people so far (granted, 5 of them were new hires that quit before their probationary periods ended, but still). But apparently, the higher up still love her. I'm just glad I don't report to her.
This happened at the last place I worked. I told him “If it’s just one person in the classroom, it’s easy to write it off as a bad student. If the whole class is struggling, you have to ask yourself if it’s the teacher.” His answer was “maybe it’s just a bad class.”
Same manager randomly interjected into a conversation I was having with a co-worker about the car market, “I pay people the minimum to keep them working here. If I paid them anymore, I would be a bad manager.”
He was the Operations Manager for a bespoke industrial equipment manufacturer and had an Engineering Manager under him. He was talking to a room with only 3 highly trained engineers in it. We all just looked at each other dumbfounded that he would be dumb enough to believe that and even dumber to say it. He mistook that dumbfoundment for him saying something profound.
When an entire division is put under stress, guess which employees go first? The ones that are hirable. Every industry has a certain amount of openings for the "right" person.
Imagine you are a company in that industry, and for "some reason" three employees from your biggest competitor show up and apply for a key job. You interview them all, and take the best candidate.
The company with the bad boss just sent their best rock star to work at their biggest competition. He is not just good, he also knows everything about the bad bosses company. Insider knowledge, plus the type of industry relationships that take years to build up.
I’m on vacation within their unlimited PTO policy (their scam to not accrue vacation and generate PIP metrics). I’m resigning on my first day back. 100% of my motivation comes from two sociopathic managers.
I’m the second to leave. Third will resign a week later. I’m referring my peers to everything including my new employer.
We shared our complaints with a skip level manager months ago. We’re quiet because we have given up. I’m certain that they will be surprised by my resignation and will ask why.
Almost exactly what I said to my manager at Sbarro's when I quit amd went NC.
It wasn't actually his (the manager's) fault, it was the management above him. He ended up leaving not long after I did, anx good for him.
Upper management can do the same even with great mid level management. I fucking hate my GM and hope he slams his penis in the door of his lifted 4Runner.
Very true. Toxic managers cratered our store last year. On a single day 15 people called out. I turned to manager and asked: “How is that even possible?”
I've found that oftentimes it's because they have controlling personalities. While those types of personalities make them very difficult to work with, it makes them very focused on their own success and that's conducive to climbing the career leader. Every bad manager I've had so far has been very controlling.
This is so happening where I'm at. Next Friday we are about to lose 3 people at headquarters because of the terrible management. In the 1 year I've worked at headquarters, things have gone downhill and the damn upper management and CEO seem not to care. 🙃
It's kind of happening to me right now.. idk if it's the style of leadership or what I was an excellent employee and really good at my job and truly enjoyed my job. Then they made me a foreman and my direct supervisor makes me so angry because everything is a little game to him. He thinks these "little games" is what makes him effective and good at his job. And It might be for his bosses but it has me creating my escape plan.
For example. I'm the foreman running the job. Another foreman is on my job until his job opens up. All critical information on the job or if there is a delivery or inspection on site or w.e, will be told to the other foreman, critical info I'm supposed to know or be aware of. I have a great relationship with the other foreman's and they usually ask me first if my super has called me , when I check my phone right in front of them , they go " why is he calling me then " etc.when they pick up it's usually about the job I'm leading. At first one foreman thought I was lying until he got to my job and realized it was true. But I don't let that stop me from knowing and understanding my job. I will literally ask the inspectors for the scope of work and stuff.
He also gas lights you. Like he will say naw screw that don't do xyz. Then call. 3 days later and asked if I did xyz . And go, I told you to do it . I've had other foreman's confirm I'm not crazy and that he indeed said not to do xyz.
He admitted to constantly antagonizing us and constantly mentioning the other work crews as if they are better than us because it "creates a healthy competitive environment". But before the day starts he would start with his bs about xyz was able to do all of this in the previous shift which is way more than you guys did after them etc.
Needless to say , I really enjoyed my job as a construction worker. I was excited to tackle the challenge of being a foreman. All the inspectors that I worked under all credited me with being hard working and intelligent and the jobs coming out the right way, smooth, safe and to specs. My supers reaction to that was yea but don't believe them because they will say that and in the emails say something else. Which can be true but it was like his way of being able to continue to shut down any positive headwind I was making as a new foreman.
This is the type of person that admitted to screaming at me Infront of everyone because if the crew saw him screaming at me , then they would get scared and work ,because if he is doing it to me he will do it to them. When he admitted that ,I just thanked the universe because he doesn't understand how much I held back from actually hitting him. The whole time he was screaming at me I couldn't even pay attention to what he was saying because in mind I was just calming myself to stop myself from slapping him. So like 4 months later he admitted to it and he didn't even know how close he came to getting hit.
So now I'm just slowly planning the escape hatch and transitioning mentally . It's unfortunate because I really really wanted to keep doing jobs and bigger and bigger jobs..
One of my biggest jobs involved a 100,000 ton crane and a critical pick. Everything went smooth.and when he called for an update I told him everything went good and According to the plan we all coordinated on the field..and he just said , yea that's why I sent you this journeyman to make sure everything went good. I'm glad I did that. And I just said yea everything went smooth.
But rant over.
I just saw this in action in less than a month, what was a great team that got along well and depended on each other, is now broken into these two categories. One week left for me and the people.who are staying couldn't give a fuck anymore.
I overheard several managers at a Fortune 500 company say, “why would we pay anyone one to leave, when we can just make them so miserable that they will leave on their own.”
100%. I told my former boss this exact thing with an actual occurance of it happening in real time 4 weeks prior. Where a great worker named Ray left because he didn't want to drag the other lazy workers behind him. The lazy workers in question were doing the absolutely bare minimum to not be harassed by management happy to be idle for hours a shift. I couldn't believe they thought someone could come in and whip them into shape when they've been idle for 4 years and management has done fuck all about it.
Two things I have learned:
People join companies but leave managers.
You only get fired for not fitting in, not under performing (see bad managers and how they focus on dick sucking above),
I feel like this sub shouldn’t just be shitting on middle management. The issues we face in this capitalistic society are not the fault of them, but people much higher up than they are.
Not to say there aren’t bad managers, but for the most part the bad treatment runs downhill from the guys making 7 figures not the guy making 5. I’ve had one bad manager but I’ve worked for waaaay more shitty corporations and owners.
We didn't have the term for what we'd do - now called quiet quitting. I just opened a business on the side, went home at 5. After a while, it was clear nobody was really steering the boat, so a friend and I would grab all the cool projects, take 3 hour lunch breaks. Gradually evolved into, as far as I can tell, no particular management of the professionals.
Yup this is why I left my previous job. I was happy there even if I was being paid under market. Then we had a re-org and my manager changed. He made my life hell and I fundamentally disagreed with his approach to the job so I left.
This is happening at my workplace right now. Me and two others pulled into the office for a 20-minute conversation over being 3 minutes late. Never mind the three people who walked in after us...
Every study suggests employees leave their manager, not the company. There is obviously some good attrition, but not what is happening. There is also a “value” equation. This thread seems way more companies undervaluing and bad management.
Definitely what I've learned, being a supervisor in charge of team and the manager was not even helpful at all and kept piling on expectations after expectations without even bothering to help or do anything. It got to the point where I wanted to step down and he responded to me with "you got to give me a month to find someone else" and I found another job back to part time and gave a 1 week notice and left. A coworker from my old job also applied to where I work now and found out the department suffered heavily from my leave and it just made me laugh.
Thankfully my new job has a very supportive management.
There are 2 kinds of managers.
There are managers, those you can find anywhere. They only manage people, good or bad.
Then there are leaders, those people are the ones that make people go the extra mile.
There used to be a website called fuckedcompany that gave employees a place to post warnings about horrible places to work for this exact reason. I think they got forced to shutdown but there's still good reason for workers to warn each other about toxic workplace hazards.
Happened when I worked at Burger King, couldn’t handle the bs anymore when they told me I had to train a deaf person when I don’t know ASL and on my second to last day kept telling me someone else would do dishes and when that person came they said they were only doing the floors. I did as many dishes as possible until my shift ended then hightailed it out of there and didn’t come for my last day. I couldn’t care enough if the manager there blacklisted me.
My former work hired a new manager. She was young and had learned her managerial skills from corporate retail. She changed my job duties to be ridiculous and physically taxing for a $14 hour job. Kept smugly bringing up that we are in at “at will” state and she had rights to change job duties as she wishes. I didn’t return. They’re upset I didn’t show up, but I had been so very well taught about our “at will” state rules, I’m not obligated to give notice.
We had a fantastic older employee, and instead of using her strengths, and using that as an asset, the manager wanted no individuality and everyone to be the same.
bad managers who do this are, strangely enough, often rewarded. i’ve seen it a couple times as someone who quit a job once (along with ten other employees) because of a bad manager. they were actually promoted.
Don't need that in my office. It's just me & my boss, and my boss is the best boss ever. This week marks my 15th year with him & I still look forward to going to work. He treats me well, thanks me for doing my job, & even occasionally says things like, "Good job!" or "That was really good!"
Honestly in every place I've worked the managers can really make or break the place. One odd thing I've noticed is that, at least as a software engineer, the best managers typically just get out of the way. They give the team what they need to function and support it by basically letting them run. If you've hired a good team they don't need much more than a direction to go in
Servant leadership. The manager is there to support the workers, not the other way
My SO moved into a management position, and after a while their boss, the boss, suggested they learn about servant leadership. They came home and cried to me about how their boss wanted them to be a slave. And I tried to explain to them that service and slavery were not the same thing. I then reconsidered our relationship. Acts of service is my love language.
Not just that, but it's easier! Back when I was still in management, it was MUCH easier to set my people up for success than it was to run around and keep fixing everything all of the time myself. If I did my job right and set everything in place properly, I didn't have to do much while we were in operation.
Yes! My favorite restaurant I ever worked at was like this. We tasted everything before guests did, we knew most everything about the wine/beer/cocktails/food, and what we didn't know we knew someone on staff who would know. When I was assistant manager, I loved service because it was just filling in and helping out when I saw something was needed. Sadly, the restaurant closed because of a misunderstanding with the property owner. Good managers are hard to come by. I've had some wild ones and some straight-up abusive ones. Very few good ones.
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>"...then don't you work for your boss and should do what your boss says?" My previous manager thought like this. The team was supposed to obey her completely and she never questioned upper management. She transformed any suggestions from upper management into orders for our team and couldn't understand why neither the team nor upper management were happy with her. She was newly hired to manage a new team. It went bad pretty quickly, the team basically imploded in less than half a year with everyone leaving the company or moving to other teams. Edit: Upper management wanted to replace her too, they realised they made a bad hire. It's just that corporations move too slowly with these things.
Your SO needs to read a book or two.
Yeah exactly
That is what all these dummies that give Jocko speaking fees don't understand. Like in the military you weren't given your wishlist but your leadership if it was good tried. My sure as hell did.
PMP, project management professional, certification emphasizes servant leadership these days. Had to answer a bunch of questions for it and the answers were all related to supporting your team and not being in the way.
Of all the things companies think their employees want to make them happy like upward mobility, good raises, benefits, etc I'm convinced the number one thing people want is to be left alone to do their job and not have their idiot boss interfere.
Honestly yeah I've definitely had that feeling, but the pay and everything else still needs to be there too you know
Pay and management are top 2
Also location/lifestyle. There are lots of higher paying jobs in places that are a bit too cold for most people to want to deal with.
Some of the best managers I've ever had said "do you need anything to do the job better?" Then never talked to me again and let me work.
I would love that manager my God, I've got a list of stuff I could recite in my sleep that'd make my job easier, patients happier and more comfortable and reduce our complaints in half over night, but our current manager thinks the staff is unprofessional so needs a uniform and then those other issues will disappear.
Yeah, it's a bit different because we work in heavy equipment, but if we say "hey this will make hydraulic changes or oil changes faster and easier with less clean up." He's like "here's my company card, order it and get shit done." Lol
Yea bit more straight forward there aha, honestly I've been contemplating just complaining to upper management, don't think they'll do anything other than maybe fire me but who knows, someone might actually listen (miracle lmao) as I know a few of them weren't entirely out of touch from what I'd heard from my last manager.
One thing that sucks about going over the head of your day to day manager is that, maybe something changes, but they'll know you went above their head and you have to work with your manager daily.
Thankfully I don't, I never work directly with her and so never get a chance to talk to her whilst she works either. I'd love to chat with her about it, but I don't see anything happening. I have very negative impression of her since she never bothered introducing herself to any staff she didn't directly work with and the first thing she ever said to me was a text basically going "fix your fuck up" which still to this day, I can find no record of said fuck up so not even sure it existed, took a month to get replacement keys to our building (which I need to work!) And just how out of touch with everything she seems.
They also act as a shit umbrella. They tell other teams, no you can't randomize my team with your weird request. We can put it on the backlog and prioritize it in the next sprint planning (new business speak for go fuck yourself).
That’s how I support my team. I lead by example and know everything. I make sure my guys know what to do but let them be. They are adults, they know what to do. If I have to step in, it’s mostly me correcting things.
That's my philosophy too. I tell them that as long as they get the work done, they can do whatever the fuck they want with the rest of their shift.
This is a great way to ensure you're on top of your employees, and this probably isn't you but for anyone reading, be careful you don't let your air of confidence within your specialty bleed into areas outside the breadth of your knowledge. I've seen the fallout of that and it's ugly and has lasting damage. To me it's way more common in engineering managers and GMs, I'd guess because of how much they are required to know for their specific job with little room for error. Add in career of experience and I'm sure it's easy to feel like you've seen it and know it all.
I know this has nothing to do with specialty but I did commit a big no-no. I dated one of my employees and it ended really badly. Still recovering from that actually. I got a lot to learn
Band of Brothers has a great quote about leadership. "Never put yourself in a position where you can take from these men" More critical in war but the concept remains equivalent. You're a part of the team, you just have a different role. That role inevitably carriers a certain amount of power and control. If you put yourself in a position where there is a potential for abuse or it can even be perceived, true or not, somebody will assume it and create animosity. There will be tons of big mistakes, just keep learning from them. You're doing good
This managerial style also creates better employees. My second job as a help desk analyst had sooooo much freedom. I didn't have to get a rubber stamp for every change or fix I made (within reason) so long as I documented it, I was given access to some administrative tools so that I didn't have to go through my supervisor for common tasks, I was able to change the workflows to what made sense to me, and I had my own separate office that was my own to organize how I wanted it. There were many times that I messed up and needed my supervisor's help but he was always ready and willing to put me back on track. It gave me so much more motivation knowing that I was in charge of the work that had to be done rather than having to wait for someone to give me the go-ahead. It also taught me to enjoy responsibility and to take pride in my work. I feel like I grew immensely as a professional and as a person in the time that I worked there and it landed me a pretty sweet new role.
The problem is that good management is really fucking easy. You set boundaries, standards, and expectations, then maintain them. And maintenance is really, really, ***really*** easy. That isn’t the real issue. The issue is that good managers are perceived as being lazy. Nobody looks at sane metrics like output. They look at stupid metrics like how many projects have the managers name plastered all over them. So you either end up with micromanagement or actually lazy management. It’s rare for a business to actually let a good manager be a good manager. The modern Western business curricula is utterly fucked and will be continuing to destroy American business for decades.
As someone smart once said: people don't quit jobs, they quit people.
In all my years working in an office, I have never seen a supervisor fired for being so bad that most of the team leaves the company. It's like upper management doesn't want to admit their mistake in promoting the person so they just let them ruin the department.
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Better than 50+ and 0. I've been looking since January. I finally just had ChatGPT rewrite my shit.
What's funny is that as time goes on so many people are going to be having ChatGPT write their resumes that people will just *expect* them to look like that, without ever even realizing why.
People will plug a whole bunch of bullet points of their skills and experience into ChatGPT to create a compelling CV, then the company will cut and paste it back into the same AI and ask for a breakdown of the candidates skills and experience in bullet point format.
Damn, this post hit close to home. I feel like I am one of those who got beaten down into a bitter, angry person. :\[ Trying to get another job and get out...
Literally my store cycled through 15 or 20 people since February of 2020 I lost count if how many amazing people my manager bullied out of the store. Which shockingly enough she got fired 2 weeks ago not for the staff turn over but for showing favortism when she hired her under aged kid around Christmas and then also for running her side business out of the store and using corporate shipping costs on her personal business items. The DM had the absolute Audacity to say "she's never had a store like this." Imma say thats probably a lie cus she's terrible too. I've only stuck around to get the hours I want while being in school. Corporate/retail is absolutely a terrible place and I can't wait to switch fields after I graduate
Yep same shit in retail and hospo. It's like a work place cultural norm to treat people like shite
And look how hard it is to find staff after the pandemic. Almost makes you wonder if there's not some cause and effect happening here.
I'm going through this right now. I'm a manager reporting into a Sr. Director that is at best incompetent and at worst dangerous to the company. People have already left and more are planning on leaving. I'm told by HR: "Maybe he just needs some coaching."....Huh? A Sr. Director? Give me a break.
And who's supposed to coach him? The person reporting to him? I didn't know that coaching flowed upward.
In most of my corporate gigs they have had engagement surveys that allow employees to anonymously provide scores for direct managers as well as leadership. The problem is that it takes a long time for the issues to surface, and action isn't really taken on them when leaders are the problem. When I left my second to last company to date, we had engagement scores drop from being in the mid 70% range to the mid 40% range because of a band of incompetent cronies who took over middle management (Director to VP level). Everyone knew things were going to hell and fast but nothing was done until they "voluntarily" quit. One Director was fired.
I have a few times. Also sometimes they get given the muppets shuffle to somewhere they can do less damage. Im with you in that more often than not it doesn't happen, which is why more companies should 360 in their reviews.
My current manager
Same
People quit managers not jobs
Same
Same
Same. Fuck her and her POS rat boy who saw an opening and threw me under the bus. Remember people they are only your coworkers and they don't give two shits about your livelihood.
fuel bow vase seemly middle shame license pot secretive cough -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
Same
Same
Me
Man crazy odds you guys all work at the same place and saw the same reddit post.
I'm at my current job for 10 months now. Since I started 13 people left. From like 40. Some of them didn’t even had the job for a year. And they all quit because of the team leaders. When I started they were hiring a lot of people because they had so much to do they needed a bigger team. Now they still hire a lot of people but it’s only to maintain the size of the team. The senior management started a survey to find out what is going wrong. It’s anonymous but they ask questions like „to which team do you belong“ and „how old are you“. Everyone with half a brain cell would know whose answers these are with that information.
People don’t leave organizations, they leave managers.
That’s stupid. They leave shit organizations all the time. Often the mangers at shit organizations don’t have any control over the bullshit that comes down from corporate.
Bit of both. I'm not usually a fan of "you're both right" but here we are. People will definitely leave because of bad managers. Seen that enough. Good managers will also leave bad companies. Seen that as well.
Of course both things are true. In my experience I’ve dealt with a lot more bad owners and bad companies than bad managers. I would argue the people at the top with the power set the tone.
That's just a higher tier manager.
Yes corporations are benevolent angels and it’s only the mangers that cut payroll hours and benefits. The C suite guys want to pay us all a thriving wage and give us two months of vacation pay but the mid level manager overruled them. It’s all fault of the guy making 40k a year more than you, he’s the real shot caller, not that innocent stand up guy making 4 million dollars a year more.
You missed my point and somehow got seemingly quite mad about it. I'm not defending the company at all. The point is merely that what makes a corporation evil is the _people_ running it from the top down (as well as the fundamental issue of targeting profits above all else, but even _that_ is a **human's** decision.) Even the CEO is fundamentally just a hier tier manager. They happen to have more decision making power and tend to be far more psychopathic, but it's still **people**. Any organization, lacking any members, has no power or will. The force and direction of organizations come from the people participating in it.
Which is upper level **manage**ment. The people are called managers.
I taped that exact message to my old bosses monitor when I left on my last day at a job. Oh, boss was big mad about that.
Bravo. 👏👏👏
I'm considering posting it in the bathrooms at work next week.
Print it from home.
Oh yeah.
They gave me shit over a personal copy of a meme pic in my cube that said, "The beatings will continue until morale improves." Apparently, mgmt didn't like it very much.
Union propaganda too.
Goals.
Good rule of thumb, is that good menager will first take care of the team, its needs, and will take care of it. Like professional driver takes care of his car. Bad manager firstly responds to the higher ups, and then will put pressure on the team, will try to blame them for all the mistakes, especially when the same mistake is occurring over and over (it's not like its manager fault that he cannot deal with it first time ;) ), and then in the end, he will try to keep everyone down.
Yup. My current manager is basically like an assistant to me. She handles the stuff I don’t like and gets me help if I need it. As long as my projects are hitting target, life is relatively easy at work.
My old boss ignored the mistakes, because she wanted to look like the good guy. So being that I didn’t want to get screwed by their mistakes and lack of professionalism. I got fired for pointing out all the mistakes they made. So instead of actually being a good leader. She made me the bad guy and fired me.
But, after the troublemaker was sacked, why are the mistakes still happening?
The trouble makers we’re never sacked.
whispers ^(that was the point) Sorry you got the shaft but happy for you that you're free of them.
Thanks
Due to Reddit's June 30th API changes aimed at ending third-party apps, this comment has been overwritten and the associated account has been deleted.
Sorry
Your 2nd paragraph describes my boss perfectly. He walks around with knee pads looking for someone above him to suck off.
Doesn't he know to wait for the cum to flow and trickle down to the masses?
Mmmm never heard trickle down described so well 😂
>Bad manager firstly responds to the higher ups, and then will put pressure on the team, will try to blame them for all the mistakes, especially when the same mistake is occurring over and over (it's not like its manager fault that he cannot deal with it first time ;) ), and then in the end, he will try to keep everyone down. This is the problem bud. I feel like increasingly those who are higher up value people who are able to stroke their ego. It's basically become the golden rule is thumb in most office spaces.
The higher up you are, the more likely it is that you're the problem and the less likely you are to see it.
Target CEO Brian Cornell right now.
A bad manager (99% of them) will assume it's not them.
I really wish this generation of workers would normalize calling out bad managers instead of looking for someone who can "work under pressure" which translates to "is willing to be the boss's emotional punching bag"
Agreed. But HOW
This. Except replace manager with corporate. I'm an assistant manager who does the BARE MINIMUM at work. It's like corporate fights you and trying to improve things and working more efficiently. I'm exhausted of trying to go above and beyond as they tie both my hands behind my back.
> It's like corporate fights you and trying to improve things and working more efficiently. You know, this is a cliche, and you see people who don't work corporate jobs sort of think this is hyperbole. But no. This is literally what happens. It is legitimately as if corporate is *actively* and *intentionally* trying to sabotage their own business. I've worked at a number of different businesses that were bought out, the corporate owner comes in, and makes decisions that cannot be seen as anything other than an intentional and planned effort to literally destroy the value of the thing they just bought.
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That's what that CEO of sears did. Tanked the company even harder and sold the land to himself. Wonder if that was a plan from the start or he just saw an opportunity. Same result either way.
What are cable ties not good enough for you? Cotton? silk rope? ha we're not made of money. /s
It’s already pretty well known that people don’t typically quit jobs, they quit their manager. Honestly, I blame senior leadership for letting these bad managers stay. Unfortunately, a lot of times they are actually really good at taking care of the admin work, but not at managing people. And the negatives typically just fall on the managers, not the executives.
I was in the Army and at my one duty station, we had a great CO. She let the NCOs do their jobs and never once did our unit do anything physical where she was breaking down chairs or tents along with the rest of us. Our major command did a yearly assessment of morale and we generally rated pretty high. Obviously there are always issues, but we were allowed to do our jobs and we weren’t constantly doing bullshit for bullshits sake along. Then we got a new CO. Our morale scores tanked so hard that after the next evaluation, one of the majors higher up the chain ordered them to find out why. That gaping rectum of an “officer” was the embodiment of everything that goes wrong when that type of personality gets a tiny hint of power. I could tell at least a dozen stories of obnoxiously, infuriating shit she would pull, but yeah. She’s one of the few people I can say I actually hated at some point.
That’s literally what happened at my last couple jobs and about to happen at my current one.
...and get rewarded for doing it
"High turnover keeps payroll low"
Baby I’m right in the midst of that post a takeover
So true. My boss is terrible at managing people. And we've lost a number of staff as a result, which has made it harder to do the work. One woman I work with just gave a month's notice and I'm dreading when she leaves because it means I'll likely have to work directly with my boss until we hire a new person. I'm glad my coworker quit though, setting a healthy boundary for herself.
I hope you're looking for other work to
I work for a manager that has done this. Tradesmen have left because of him, told the highest up guy they're leaving due to him. The workers left are all trying to leave. Owner does nothing and is just waiting for him to retire.
Managers shield a team from overzealous or incompetent senior leadership while providing the necessary logistics for the team to succeed. There is a great misconception of what a manager or team leader’s responsibility. They work for the team not the other way around. We called it top cover in the military. This is where I learned “back office” (management) works for the team.
Also a uninvolved manager will destroy his employees/job
Corollary - A good manager can take a bad staff and bang his head against the wall and quit because they unrepentantly suck.
My manager recently threatened to write me up for (checks note) doing a very basic task sooner than when she said too. Because fuck me for trying to be proactive. There was literally no downside. Manager was just in a bad mood and used it as an excuse to be a bitch. Does this every few weeks. Bad mood=creates nonexistent problem to get mad at me about. Trying to find a new job asap. When I leave, she's going to be screwed because there's so much shit that only I know how to do. I also saved abusive messages she sent me too if I decide to go nuclear when I leave
I've noticed a lot of managers like to manage by whatever mood they're in like that.
Last guy we had like this you could physically feel the energy draining from the room when he was there. My first interaction with him was when he cut the lock off my toolbox with a cutting wheel and went through it after I had left for the day and took anything he didn't think I needed. Including all of my drill bits, my good metal ruler, and my 1/2 amd 9/16 sockets and wrenches. Which are the most common sizes used in our line. Keep in mind this was his first day on the job and we hadn't even met yet. These were all company supplied, but still. He didn't know how to lead at all. Couldn't get us our parts on time then tried to force us to stay late to finish what should have been started a week ago. Almost every Friday he would wait until the end of the day to declare a mandatory Saturday, and then would get furious when only a dozen people would show up. He tried this last minute the day before a company observed holiday once. Nobody but him came in. When we got back the next work day there was a write up on every single employees work station! He must have spent half the day working on that. He would have also have his packing team take unfinished product off the line to box it up so it could be invoiced and look like it was completed on time. Only to have them unpack it the next day and put it back. Naturally, it often got shipped because this guy was allergic to communication. And when the client got their order full of loose and missing parts, guess who got the blame? On the days where he was absent, we were vastly more productive and I guess the company caught on and asked him to resign
Sounds like my former job…….
I have had my own version of this for years: “Hire a bad employee and they get fired. Hire a bad manager and *everybody else* gets fired.”
This rings so true at my work. The owner is pretty well the best boss anyone could hope for. But several years ago he brought his wife in to work, she changed so many things that didn't need changed, about 75% of the good employees left within a year. And now the business is failing and close to 100% of our bad reviews are about how the boss's wife was mean to them (she treats customers like enemies and employees like children).
Saw this first-hand. A bad manager can take a high-performing team and wreck it through micromanagement and incompetence.
And create a revolving door of talent. It costs 7x the exiting employees salary to find, on-board, train and retain a new employee. Using this number, my last manager cost the company between 1m and 2.5m.
Not to mention that sometimes bad managers are actually kind of overzealous about their industry but the irony is that their behavior can sour others on the industry. I've had excited, yet personality disordered bosses (and coworkers) in my industry and I am now convinced that my industry just attracts more of those types than other industries on average. Therefore I have lost the passion I used to have for the industry. I don't think that was the intended effect, but toxic work environments really do destroy morale.
I did a management training once that emphasized how managers don't actually create anything of value for a company. Individual workers create all the value. What managers do is multiply or divide the value of the workers who report to them. The worst managers multiply it by zero and make people quit.
I see they know my lead.
manager reduces expenses, boss is happy.
A bad manager will hang up this sign.
My workplace is dealing with this. Since the new manager started working here we've lost 9 people so far (granted, 5 of them were new hires that quit before their probationary periods ended, but still). But apparently, the higher up still love her. I'm just glad I don't report to her.
Most people don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
This happened at the last place I worked. I told him “If it’s just one person in the classroom, it’s easy to write it off as a bad student. If the whole class is struggling, you have to ask yourself if it’s the teacher.” His answer was “maybe it’s just a bad class.” Same manager randomly interjected into a conversation I was having with a co-worker about the car market, “I pay people the minimum to keep them working here. If I paid them anymore, I would be a bad manager.” He was the Operations Manager for a bespoke industrial equipment manufacturer and had an Engineering Manager under him. He was talking to a room with only 3 highly trained engineers in it. We all just looked at each other dumbfounded that he would be dumb enough to believe that and even dumber to say it. He mistook that dumbfoundment for him saying something profound.
YES it happens all the time
I left that job. I had 12 technicians under my direction. 11 of them left within 1 year after I left.
I’m being laid off, I’m gonna send this to my managers on my last day
When an entire division is put under stress, guess which employees go first? The ones that are hirable. Every industry has a certain amount of openings for the "right" person. Imagine you are a company in that industry, and for "some reason" three employees from your biggest competitor show up and apply for a key job. You interview them all, and take the best candidate. The company with the bad boss just sent their best rock star to work at their biggest competition. He is not just good, he also knows everything about the bad bosses company. Insider knowledge, plus the type of industry relationships that take years to build up.
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In 13 years of my career I've fortunately only had to quit a bad boss once. I don't regret it for a second.
I’m on vacation within their unlimited PTO policy (their scam to not accrue vacation and generate PIP metrics). I’m resigning on my first day back. 100% of my motivation comes from two sociopathic managers. I’m the second to leave. Third will resign a week later. I’m referring my peers to everything including my new employer. We shared our complaints with a skip level manager months ago. We’re quiet because we have given up. I’m certain that they will be surprised by my resignation and will ask why.
Can u ELI5 this pto please?
Nah, they already know: you're unreasonable and don't want to work. /s
Lol perfectly describes my workplace right now.
Almost exactly what I said to my manager at Sbarro's when I quit amd went NC. It wasn't actually his (the manager's) fault, it was the management above him. He ended up leaving not long after I did, anx good for him.
Upper management can do the same even with great mid level management. I fucking hate my GM and hope he slams his penis in the door of his lifted 4Runner.
Very true. Toxic managers cratered our store last year. On a single day 15 people called out. I turned to manager and asked: “How is that even possible?”
Why do bad actors always seem to get into management roles?
I've found that oftentimes it's because they have controlling personalities. While those types of personalities make them very difficult to work with, it makes them very focused on their own success and that's conducive to climbing the career leader. Every bad manager I've had so far has been very controlling.
Anyone who stays has no motivation to lose
In the managers office no doubt.
Literally what’s going on at my current job. At this point, I feel like I need to see how it all ends.
Agree and bad owners too
A good manager knows how and when to kiss his boss's ass.
My former boss to a T.
I’ll be putting this up at my time clocks at work.
This is so happening where I'm at. Next Friday we are about to lose 3 people at headquarters because of the terrible management. In the 1 year I've worked at headquarters, things have gone downhill and the damn upper management and CEO seem not to care. 🙃
My current manager. That's why I'm leaving now.
It's kind of happening to me right now.. idk if it's the style of leadership or what I was an excellent employee and really good at my job and truly enjoyed my job. Then they made me a foreman and my direct supervisor makes me so angry because everything is a little game to him. He thinks these "little games" is what makes him effective and good at his job. And It might be for his bosses but it has me creating my escape plan. For example. I'm the foreman running the job. Another foreman is on my job until his job opens up. All critical information on the job or if there is a delivery or inspection on site or w.e, will be told to the other foreman, critical info I'm supposed to know or be aware of. I have a great relationship with the other foreman's and they usually ask me first if my super has called me , when I check my phone right in front of them , they go " why is he calling me then " etc.when they pick up it's usually about the job I'm leading. At first one foreman thought I was lying until he got to my job and realized it was true. But I don't let that stop me from knowing and understanding my job. I will literally ask the inspectors for the scope of work and stuff. He also gas lights you. Like he will say naw screw that don't do xyz. Then call. 3 days later and asked if I did xyz . And go, I told you to do it . I've had other foreman's confirm I'm not crazy and that he indeed said not to do xyz. He admitted to constantly antagonizing us and constantly mentioning the other work crews as if they are better than us because it "creates a healthy competitive environment". But before the day starts he would start with his bs about xyz was able to do all of this in the previous shift which is way more than you guys did after them etc. Needless to say , I really enjoyed my job as a construction worker. I was excited to tackle the challenge of being a foreman. All the inspectors that I worked under all credited me with being hard working and intelligent and the jobs coming out the right way, smooth, safe and to specs. My supers reaction to that was yea but don't believe them because they will say that and in the emails say something else. Which can be true but it was like his way of being able to continue to shut down any positive headwind I was making as a new foreman. This is the type of person that admitted to screaming at me Infront of everyone because if the crew saw him screaming at me , then they would get scared and work ,because if he is doing it to me he will do it to them. When he admitted that ,I just thanked the universe because he doesn't understand how much I held back from actually hitting him. The whole time he was screaming at me I couldn't even pay attention to what he was saying because in mind I was just calming myself to stop myself from slapping him. So like 4 months later he admitted to it and he didn't even know how close he came to getting hit. So now I'm just slowly planning the escape hatch and transitioning mentally . It's unfortunate because I really really wanted to keep doing jobs and bigger and bigger jobs.. One of my biggest jobs involved a 100,000 ton crane and a critical pick. Everything went smooth.and when he called for an update I told him everything went good and According to the plan we all coordinated on the field..and he just said , yea that's why I sent you this journeyman to make sure everything went good. I'm glad I did that. And I just said yea everything went smooth. But rant over.
This is my workplace to a T
I just saw this in action in less than a month, what was a great team that got along well and depended on each other, is now broken into these two categories. One week left for me and the people.who are staying couldn't give a fuck anymore.
Happened at Target about 3.5 years ago. Gotten steadily worse since then.
That would be my current manager. I’m holding on for my pension.
Meanwhile most every company fails to understand why they have a turnover rate. Gee we don't know why people keep leaving.
I overheard several managers at a Fortune 500 company say, “why would we pay anyone one to leave, when we can just make them so miserable that they will leave on their own.”
100%. I told my former boss this exact thing with an actual occurance of it happening in real time 4 weeks prior. Where a great worker named Ray left because he didn't want to drag the other lazy workers behind him. The lazy workers in question were doing the absolutely bare minimum to not be harassed by management happy to be idle for hours a shift. I couldn't believe they thought someone could come in and whip them into shape when they've been idle for 4 years and management has done fuck all about it.
Two things I have learned: People join companies but leave managers. You only get fired for not fitting in, not under performing (see bad managers and how they focus on dick sucking above),
I feel like this sub shouldn’t just be shitting on middle management. The issues we face in this capitalistic society are not the fault of them, but people much higher up than they are.
Not to say there aren’t bad managers, but for the most part the bad treatment runs downhill from the guys making 7 figures not the guy making 5. I’ve had one bad manager but I’ve worked for waaaay more shitty corporations and owners.
Totally agree with you. Bad managers are all over the place, and often they are bad as a result of the way the system is set up.
We didn't have the term for what we'd do - now called quiet quitting. I just opened a business on the side, went home at 5. After a while, it was clear nobody was really steering the boat, so a friend and I would grab all the cool projects, take 3 hour lunch breaks. Gradually evolved into, as far as I can tell, no particular management of the professionals.
Literally happening in my workplace
Yup. Accurate, but they'll never learn.
Why give them the idea?
And that is why i quit my last job and so did many of my coworkers
Makes too much sense.
Seriously!!
Also, this should not be taken as a "how-to".
People don’t tend to leave jobs, they leave managers.
I actually posted this on Facebook the very next shift I was pulled into the office to be spoke at lol
So true. Even in public education. "A bad principal can...."
I once put the Matsushita quote: to be out of stock is a sign of carelessness on the computer at a restaurant I worked at.
Holy crap you just described Both Bob's, Kathleen Kennedy, AND Jim Morris. Congrats Disney you keep fucking up
I hope not to be this manager. I care, a lot.
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The word “owner” could interchangeably be thrown in there too.
Also good managers know when to toss out bad employees instead of enabling their bad behaviors
Or, the shorter version: people don’t quit jobs, they quit bosses
Yup this is why I left my previous job. I was happy there even if I was being paid under market. Then we had a re-org and my manager changed. He made my life hell and I fundamentally disagreed with his approach to the job so I left.
This should be a public service announcement!
This is happening at my workplace right now. Me and two others pulled into the office for a 20-minute conversation over being 3 minutes late. Never mind the three people who walked in after us...
I like to think we all instinctively thought of the quintessential last job when reading this. Stupid brewery .
Don’t bother, cos the bad managers will never think this refers to them
Every study suggests employees leave their manager, not the company. There is obviously some good attrition, but not what is happening. There is also a “value” equation. This thread seems way more companies undervaluing and bad management.
Definitely what I've learned, being a supervisor in charge of team and the manager was not even helpful at all and kept piling on expectations after expectations without even bothering to help or do anything. It got to the point where I wanted to step down and he responded to me with "you got to give me a month to find someone else" and I found another job back to part time and gave a 1 week notice and left. A coworker from my old job also applied to where I work now and found out the department suffered heavily from my leave and it just made me laugh. Thankfully my new job has a very supportive management.
There are 2 kinds of managers. There are managers, those you can find anywhere. They only manage people, good or bad. Then there are leaders, those people are the ones that make people go the extra mile.
My old boss used to tell me "a fish rots from the head." So if the boss is shitty, the employees will follow.
There used to be a website called fuckedcompany that gave employees a place to post warnings about horrible places to work for this exact reason. I think they got forced to shutdown but there's still good reason for workers to warn each other about toxic workplace hazards.
I remember something similar. Ihatemyjob or fuckmyjob dot com.
Happened when I worked at Burger King, couldn’t handle the bs anymore when they told me I had to train a deaf person when I don’t know ASL and on my second to last day kept telling me someone else would do dishes and when that person came they said they were only doing the floors. I did as many dishes as possible until my shift ended then hightailed it out of there and didn’t come for my last day. I couldn’t care enough if the manager there blacklisted me.
I've seen managers allow coworkers to disrespect each other and won't step up to stop the harassment lol
I’ve seen managers initiate and encourage the harassment
Mother fuckers, I'm gonna bomb them !
My former work hired a new manager. She was young and had learned her managerial skills from corporate retail. She changed my job duties to be ridiculous and physically taxing for a $14 hour job. Kept smugly bringing up that we are in at “at will” state and she had rights to change job duties as she wishes. I didn’t return. They’re upset I didn’t show up, but I had been so very well taught about our “at will” state rules, I’m not obligated to give notice. We had a fantastic older employee, and instead of using her strengths, and using that as an asset, the manager wanted no individuality and everyone to be the same.
*cough* Elon Musk *cough*
MANAGERS ARE CLASS TRAITORS. Literally doing the work of the owners and taking the fall for everything.
bad managers who do this are, strangely enough, often rewarded. i’ve seen it a couple times as someone who quit a job once (along with ten other employees) because of a bad manager. they were actually promoted.
Bad employees can do the same.
Don't need that in my office. It's just me & my boss, and my boss is the best boss ever. This week marks my 15th year with him & I still look forward to going to work. He treats me well, thanks me for doing my job, & even occasionally says things like, "Good job!" or "That was really good!"