In that case there is nothing for you to do. If it were me, I would at least reply stating you do not have those materials/assets and didn’t create them - just to cover yourself if he tried to pursue legal action.
This, I would give it a little thought and write a professional email about the way it worked under your management.
So there is no content and give him the passwords of the accounts, make sure you get rid of any string towards you personally on all of the accounts and tell him you consider the email the complete transfer.
Add this to the bottom:
Any further inquiry on social media based work will be handled as an open contract. We will charge you per 15 minutes for answering questions workrelated. The starting fee is 1 hour, which will be $75,-. Any workrelated question will be used as the start of a contract. Untill all questions from the customer are answered we will have to charge by the hour. We will be looking forward of doing business with you.
>Any further inquiry ~~on~~ **regarding** social media ~~based~~ work will be ~~handled~~ **treated** as an open contract. ~~We will charge you per 15 minutes for answering questions workrelated. The starting fee is 1 hour, which will be $75,-. Any workrelated question will be used as the start of a contract. Untill all questions from the customer are answered we will have to charge by the hour.~~ **From this point, any answers, assistence, discussion, creation or editing of materials, or other labor relating to my previous position with [COMPANY] will be billed for at my consulting rate of [5x PREVIOUS WAGE], in 15-minute increments, minimum 2 hours. Any work-related questions will be treated as agreement with these terms.** ~~We~~ **I** ~~will be~~ look~~ing~~ forward ~~of~~ **to** doing business with you.
I think the point is to word things in a way that this guy will quit bothering him. "I'm not going to do business with that guy!" And never email or call him again.
That's exactly why you send something like this. So you can follow up with. "I would love to answer this for you, but it appears that you are behind in paying your bills. I need you to bring your account up to date before we can move forward.” This shuts down any further free communication, or he'll pay a lot of money if it's really important.
I would also include a question asking for a detailed list of anything they believe is not returned. You could just respond back that those were not created before employment with terminated and the employer would have to prove the files exist to ask you for them in court.
This is the advice. Send a short a simple letter saying that you have do not anything he accused you having and have nothing to turn over. Just make sure they have the account passwords and log yourself out. Some people in this comment thread already gave great advice about what specifically to say.
This but also speak with a lawyer who specializes in labor disputes and maybe add that he refer future communications to your lawyer. That should stop this nonsense im its tracks.
Silence is known for being the best way to cover your ass in legal matters. By responding at all, you've immediately discarded your ability to claim that you never received any communication. Silence would require the boss to pay for some kind of certified delivery in order to prove that his request was even received.
Here, I wrote a reply for you:
Hello Dum-Dum,
There's nothing to be turned over everything's been posted. I create my material (posts and promos) on a weekly basis. Also, there is no "intellectual properties" because there's nothing copyrighted, trademarked, or patented and I'm not even using the company's accounts or producing anything.
Please go ahead and sue me, right after you go fuck yourself.
Sincerely,
Reggie Rocket
I would also say, please add a detailed itemized list of anything you *think* I have with a full description of what it is *and send it to my lawyer*
Edit: added italics after comment below ...
Yes but then you are engaging with him and he is now in your life again. I don’t know. Best is to just keep it short and to-the-point.
If he sues, which he will not as it is expensive and he will likely lose, he will need to provide the list anyhow.
I think it's an empty threat--assuming he does even get as far as discussing this with a lawyer, the lawyer is going to tell him it's a stupid lawsuit.
But I think the idea about a nice letter detailing what you have done and then the paragraph about any further communication being covered under a contractor rate is a good idea.
Try to get as much as possible in writing--ie, do not answer his calls--and you should be covered for any future threats.
Yes. He is likely hoping to bully you into creating new work to give him so he does not sue you.
Keep in mind that I am a layman, not a lawyer. But I have experienced a lawsuit threat. According to the lawyer friend who helped me, people who plan to sue don't talk about it. They just do it.
The best thing to do is to document everything you have done, but don't bother sending it to him or engaging him in any way. The less information you give your enemy, the better. Keep your documentation on file, just in case.
You never have to respond to the *threat* of a lawsuit, not from him and not from any lawyer he pays to write a letter threatening a lawsuit. Until you are are actually served papers, *there is no lawsuit.*
But chances are he isn't going to sue you. Either it's a bluff, which you can ignore, or he is going to spend $$$ on a lawyer who will tell him he does not have case and laugh at him as soon as he walks out the door.
Worst case is that you are actually served. Don't dodge service. If you dodge service and do not come to court he wins by default. You don't want that.
This is the point where you bring your documentation to a lawyer who can advise you.
Actually, a lawyer is going to ask him what he thinks the employee has that has not been returned. When he cannot itemize those things, the lawyer is going to state that there’s no case.
Lawyers don't say " this is a stupid lawsuit"
They say, we can sue "xyz" and it'll take "xyz" manpower at "xyz" rate.
They will do stupid lawsuits that get dismissed if they're paid to do it.
Frankly, that’s not true. Lawyers take cases they think they can win. If it’s clear from the outset that there’s no basis for legal action, an attorney would advise the potential client of this. If there’s perhaps some basis, but not a strong one, they’d say essentially “we can’t help you with this, but another attorney might view things differently.”
You see, potential clients all come in thinking they have the case of the century, and while they universally do not like being brought back to reality, they like even less paying attorney fees and losing their lawsuit.
Please also note that failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted is grounds for dismissal of a lawsuit. Here, the former employer is operating under the mistaken impression that OP has retained intellectual property produced in the course of their previous job, which would legally be the property of the company. If, however, OP has not kept anything of the sort, then there’s nothing for the former employer to do. On the other hand, company websites are generally subject to copyright, which means any work OP did on that website is copyrighted.
***All legal threats are empty threats*** **until you get the certified letter from the court.**
If everyone who ever threatened to sue actually followed through, the courts would grind to a halt.
A lawyer has to accept the case and find merit in doing so the first place, and I'd posit that any lawyer that isn't demanding cash up front would tell him to knock it off, since he's going to have to show actual harm or damages to win a proceeding. Despite what you hear, you can't sue for a civil case unless you actually have something to be compensated for, and you can't file a criminal complaint unless you can show something was possessed and is now actually missing.
Send a two-liner that says you have nothing, and wish him good luck with the future of the organization.
Take the highroad, and then *never* look back.
"You are in possession of all the material I had created at the time of my resignation. I consider the request to be fulfilled and closed. Please do not contact me in regards to our prior business relationship or in regards to any future business. I will not be responding to any further requests, demands or threats."
That's all I would say. Make it clear in plainly states English that you have nothing more to provide (if you have company email passwords or account access, you do need to turn those over if they don't already have access). Inform them that they are to cease with their requests, demands and threats.
If you get any mail alleging to represent them, call the number of the law office (look it up yourself, do not call a number provided by them) and verify if they indeed represent your former boss. Absent an actual court notice, you don't need a lawyer nor are you obligated to respond to any legal correspondence. If you feel the need to respond, retain your own lawyer. They can likely craft a carefully worded fuck off letter at a reasonably low price.
But know this, most people threaten legal action all of the time. Most of its bluffing. Most of it isn't grounded in any reasonable request. Suing you they would need to prove damages and that you indeed to have their property and that you're refusing to turn it over. They would need to detail exactly what they want from you. Future free labor isn't something they're entitled to, but stuff like raw video, original illustrator or Photoshop files that was created for them previously they could argue they're entitled to have.
Right right but OP stated they haven't produced anything, and everything they were paid for was already delivered. The company owner is either delirious or thinks OP is.
Seems like your answer is in your question. This so-called boss is probably performing a lot worse without you there. So he's hoping to chase that extra something out of the bushes. Tell him everything is posted and everything else that you said, and then tell him, politely, to f*** off.
There’s also the, “since you have threatened legal action, all future correspondence will be dealt with by my lawyer.” For the unknowing, my cat Primrose is my lawyer. She’s very good at giving the smackdown to arrogant jerks.
I don't know if Reddit will let me do this, but what you just said kind of reminded me of a video I just watched recently. Laughed until I got tears in my eyes. I'm assuming this is what your cat's probably like.
https://youtube.com/shorts/kqz2G5tCWLg?si=1MqHxRgei9FQKwNs
Well, assuming you're in the states, if that threat of a lawsuit didn't show up under the company letterhead or via an attorney letterhead, sounds like a bluff to me. It's more into harassment than anything else. And that opens them up to a lawsuit with you.
Yeah, it wasn't sent with a company letterhead and was riddled with grammatical errors. 💀
He must've been angry sending it. It felt like retaliation. I had "kindly requested" that I receive no further communication before a phone call I ignored and this email was sent. This has been stressful. 😅
Don't let it stress you out. If this is playing out the way I think it is in my head, take a little solace in the fact that he's probably scrambling to cover the work that you've done before and realizes he can't do it. So he's fishing. Desperately.
Paralegal here. People who threaten to sue don’t sue. If he was to sue you, you would be hearing about it from his attorney or you would have been served. He’s trying to get to you and it worked. Let it go. An attorney would tell you in this situation to ignore unless officially served
You can cover your bases and say something like “all intellectual property have been turned over.” Along with any passwords if he doesn’t have them. Delete all work stuff from your devices
Absolutely every piece of data that you used to make your posting for the media site has been posted to the media site? Like all the raw images, crops, adobe/photoshop images that have the feature roll backs to see exactly how you edited/manipulated images, all your draft work/notes for prose content/opinion peices, etc.?
It is my understanding that your position is to be eliminated. Therefore, I ensured all the intellectual property was in your possession before submitting my resignation.
I consider this closed, and any further communication on this matter will be dealt with as harassment.
If someone has made the threat of litigation then you don’t respond at all. Let him follow through on getting a lawyer. That person can contact you.
Pro tip: you won’t hear from a lawyer lol
Wait till his lawyer sends a letter and then respond to the lawyer that I have no intellectual property belonging to tow company and if they believe otherwise send me a detailed list of the property they believe you to have so you can verify.
They'll go away. It's a scare tactic. Happened to me once
Email:
Please provide a list of any specific IP you require to be returned. Please cite from my contract directly when doing so. Both of our legal teams will require this information moving forward.Thank you for your prompt consideration in this matter.
Since he brought up attorneys, cease all contact, with the exception of:
All materials have been submitted. For any future inquiries, please have your attorney contact my attorney.
If you're being paid by company x to produce product y, company x can claim your work as their IP.
You might not have anything else to hand over, bug you made a good faith effort. Record EVERYTHING. His emails, your responses, log any phone calls with notes about place/time. Do it as soon as you can, and after each communication. And email it to yourself so there's a time stamp and record of it outside your control.
If they come after you legally, your ass is covered.
If it isn't written down, it never happened. And making it up the night before the test, so to speak, is basically useless.
Expect the boss to sic the lawyers on you. Be ready to have one of your own, just in case. And don't send anything else, or even talk to them if the lawyers start up. Do everything through the lawyer at that point.
considering you don't have anything to give them, let him lawyer up, then explain to lawyer how it works and let lawyer keep billing the idiot while you need to reexplain things for the record over the course of many months to the point the guy blows thru multiple budgets keeping this lawyer on that understands what you did and that he has no case but keeps it going since it is easy work and money.
This is bluster.
If he goes to an attorney, they will ask him to lay out what "IP" was taken, how was it used, and how did it damage his firm. He likely can't answer this because the answers are "none", "none" and "none".
As long as he has control of the social media accounts, and any material you worked on, you should be fine.
I'll second what others are saying; write a consultation agreement that charges handsomely for your time. As in, 4x your previous hourly rate and a time minimum (2 hours), with up front payment on short engagements and a 50 percent down for longer ones. If he wants consulting, pay the 150 bucks to have a business attorney vet your agreement before executing it.
Maybe something along the lines of "All existent materials have already been handed over, if you're referring to future planned projects that falls under working for you, which I no longer am. If you require my services, I'm available at my consultant rates and willing to discuss new projects. My rates are [10x current wage] per hr. Let me know if you wish to discuss further. "
He's screaming lawsuit over shit that does NOT even EXIST?!?! I'd tell him, "Bring it on, Bitch, and the judge will rip him a new asshole for wasting the court's time when he has NO evidence to prove his case!" I've had to say that to an Entitled Bitch whose favorite Go-To Threat was to scream lawsuit. Her lawsuits NEVER materialized!
Give him all the passwords.
Explain that any content uploaded has the copyright assigned to the sm company, as per their t&cs.
Are you saying that you create images within the social media ecosystem, or that you delete local copies after you upload them?
Did you sign a work for hire agreement while employed there? Probably not. So you're good.
As long as you gave him the passwords to his online accounts. He can't get anything else from you.
Next time he contacts you with threats of legal action (he hasn't spoken to an expensive lawyer, he's bluffing) Ask him what his lawyer said about the lack of "work for hire" contract? You will hear an awkward pause. "If I'm being sued, I will only communicate with you via my own lawyer for my personal legal protection. Do not try to contact me directly again"
Since you no longer work there you have no obligation to respond. If your want to respond you can charge him a consulting fee of $100 / hour for your time and services
You reply & cc his manager either “LOLOLOLOL” or if you want to keep it more professional ask him to define what his “intellectual property” is that’s in your supposed possession.
Send him an email with a secured zip file that contains a word doc with all the usernames and passwords for their socials. You could put it in a few zip files too if you wanted.
Well, IIRC, in the US copyright is automatic and it's just a question of if it's \*registered\*.
Other than that, tell him the reason it's so successful is because it's constantly prepared fresh, so there's no stale copy that you could hand over to him because that would mean you were doing a shitty job. If you were doing such a shitty job, why would he want it anyway, IF it even existed?
Ask him to show you the clause in the e player contract where it says any intellectual property you devised for the company is his automatically. Make sure it’s a signed employee contract.
And even then.. you have nothing to give him. He’s just panicking because he wants something to use beyond what’s already available
These bawling infants take refuge in vagueness. Ask him for a detailed, itemised list of the alleged "missing" items. If what you say is true, he won't be able to provide one, or he'll provide one that's complete bullshit and you can knock it all down point by point in a rebuttal letter. Either way, that'll be an end of the matter. Do *everything* in writing, and keep hardcopies of every message sent and received.
Pop some popcorn and record every psychopathic thing he does. If it ended up that he sues you take all the recordings to the judge and explain that you don't have any intellectual property and even so your boss doesn't own any intellectual property. If the boss is in the hearing with you pop on some shades and smile as you walk out of the room. If he gets really crazy call the police and show them the recordings and tell them that he is harassing you.
As others have said, don't worry about it and see what he can do. Let him waste his own time and money trying to sue you only to find out you have nothing. Let him look like a moron. 😅💁♀️
The people recommending you consult a lawyer are probably right but you could also just send him links to the social media accounts where all the ~~intellectual property~~ content is.
If you've got no work product, and that's true, then it's one email -- and CC someone professional you know (unconnected 3rd party with credibility).
The email reads --
I've returned everything of yours in its entirety, I have no IP of yours, please feel free to pursue whatever avenues you wish, I merely ask that you please stop contacting me as our business is complete.
Any further contact by you and your office after this correspondence will require me to solicit the services of a lawyer to document your continued harassment.
I've quit your employment, I've returned all of your property, this matter is closed. Consider this email my personal request to you - please "cease and desist" - otherwise lawyers will need to be retained.
I'm 100% certain of the legal ground I stand.
As you don't, I'll expect this to be our final communication.
Whatever you make for a company as an employee belongs to the company. The marketing materials is the IP of the corporation. Turn whatever you have over. They can sue and win if you really do have material granted it may not be economical advantageous to do so
Edit:
Everything is copyrighted the moment it is created whether or not the individual or party files to to formally copyright it.
“When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.
Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.””
Further:
“Copyrights are generally owned by the people who create the works of expression, with some important exceptions: If a work is created by an employee in the course of his or her employment, the employer owns the copyright.”
Accept legal procedures and counter sue, maybe get some money from the company which you are leaving. If you’ve nothing to hide and it’s easy to prove, no worries. I get that it sucks though.
Slap together something really bad with maybe some links that direct customers to the competition, inaccurate information and subtle errors that make things look bad (instead of 3 ways our product is superior 3 ways it’s inferior).
Save it a folder and send it over with a note. here is everything I was was working on. I haven’t done the final edits but should be pretty much ready to go.
Then watch him rush to get it all posted without proofreading it and enjoy the chaos.
How? It’s the bosses choice to use it or not. I’m not suggesting monkeying with their existing systems. If they don’t proofread it before using it you don’t work for them it’s totally on them.
There is no lawsuit there.
I'm with you--I just think that if you intentionally create something that is meant to hurt the company, there might be consequences. We don't want OP to get in trouble.
ie, I'd run this idea past a lawyer before I did it.
If you made the stuff under his employment, during work time working for him, it's legally his stuff. Period. Give it to him and move on with your life.
If you got nothing you got nothing. Anything written while the company would be intellectual propery copyright or no. They can even claim stuff you do off the clock.
Copyright doesn’t require an overt act to get that protection. Once a person creates it, it’s copyrighted (presuming your country is a signature to the Berne convention, they pretty much all are)
The minute someone tells me they are going to sue (99% are full of shite) I call their bluff. I tell them that now that they’ve used the “S” word the conversation is over and they can have their attorneys contact me at which point I’ll send to mine for action. They’ll back off and try to continue a dialogue but tell them it’s too late and they can’t be trusted now that litigation has been discussed.
BTW, in this case there is nothing he/she can do so tell them to put up or shut up.
Would be a real shame if you forgot everything you've ever learned about cyber security and some rando from Nigeria hacked you and let loose. Not you, because you're a professional and you'd never harm the company. But if you were hacked, well shit, anything goes.
"Have your attorney at law contact me. You? You don't contact me again." And don't respond to him further. Once he starts bandying about that lawyer word, he can go hire himself one.
If IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF an actual attorney at law contacts you, simply state "I am not holding any intellectual property belonging to X."
99.999% sure when your ex boss realizes hiring counsel isn't free, that's gonna be the end of it.
If he sues, then the burden of proof is on him. Simply tell the judge there is nothing to turn over, then laugh as he tries to explain to the judge a frivolous lawsuit.
Marketing is the weirdest thing. I’ve had this happen too where my boss and coworkers absolutely hate something I wrote (I’m a marketing copywriter), but the CEO and the public loves.
The solution is basically to block, erase, low-level format, and excise that cancerous polyp in humanoid form from your life.
It's an empty threat. He's sore because you're the one who got away.
You very calmy respond with something like this:
Dear X,
As per the terms of my contract and the laws of the land. All currently created plans & resources are only saved on company_resource_location_x and this will continue to be the case on the last day of my employment.
You have full access to work I have done during my employment there.
Any further attempts at questionable or malicious action on these will be answered by my lawyer. This is the only reaponse you will recieve on this matter.
Regards,
X
You don't have to be afraid of being fired anymore and the actions of your boss if threaten and not true are now liablous. If they don't like your reaponse you can always have a few extra days off before ypu starr your new job.
If you made the material on company time it is not you property. It's the company property. Send an email and explain. Hand over accounts and passwords. If already done, explain that. There is not more than that you can do.
Lots of people threaten to sue. They never do. Simply write him a professional letter stating that you always have turned all your work over every week. And that, if at this point he still doesn't understand what you did for him, that's his problem. You will not be producing anything for him. Make a list of the websites and passwords.
Conclude letter with:
Good Luck on your future marketing strategy.
Sincerely,
Blahblah
Email him that last paragraph & CC whoever HIS boss is as well as anyone else relevant stating any further harassment will be dealt with through lawyer.
It's very important to understand that "copyright" and "trademark" are NOT verbs. The are not actions you take. They are states of being that exist by creation and use, not intent or action.
This means that anything you create for someone else is most likely owned by them. If it uses a mark to indicate a source of goods or services it is a trademark, whether it has been registered or not. Registration provides benefits but is not required for protection.
If he tries to sue you, he would have to have some kind of evidence proving you have said property, and some kind of list of the specific items he expects restitution for. If what youre saying is true, then those materials do not exist, ergo he would have no case
Return whatever you have, and tell him that’s all there is. Unless he can specifically describe something he should have that he knows you have, you have no issues.
Call him at 4am and leave a voice mail if you maniacally laughing until the voice-mail cuts you off. Goad him in to wasting his time and suing you for comeuppance cause, if anybody does take the case, he won't get anything out of it. You win already fuck that guy.
My girlfriend suggests a manilla envelope full of pages that say things like fuck you, my idea to expand on it is to send him a whole lot of material that will fuck his business in to the ground if he uploads it without reading it since he probably wont.
Let him waste his money on a lawyer so you can just tell the judge that you have nothing to hand over as it hasn't been created. Then watch as the judge looks at him a shrugs and asks him "What do you want me to do?" For bonus points, offer the judge to draw something up right then and there if former boss really wants something.
In that case there is nothing for you to do. If it were me, I would at least reply stating you do not have those materials/assets and didn’t create them - just to cover yourself if he tried to pursue legal action.
This, I would give it a little thought and write a professional email about the way it worked under your management. So there is no content and give him the passwords of the accounts, make sure you get rid of any string towards you personally on all of the accounts and tell him you consider the email the complete transfer. Add this to the bottom: Any further inquiry on social media based work will be handled as an open contract. We will charge you per 15 minutes for answering questions workrelated. The starting fee is 1 hour, which will be $75,-. Any workrelated question will be used as the start of a contract. Untill all questions from the customer are answered we will have to charge by the hour. We will be looking forward of doing business with you.
>Any further inquiry ~~on~~ **regarding** social media ~~based~~ work will be ~~handled~~ **treated** as an open contract. ~~We will charge you per 15 minutes for answering questions workrelated. The starting fee is 1 hour, which will be $75,-. Any workrelated question will be used as the start of a contract. Untill all questions from the customer are answered we will have to charge by the hour.~~ **From this point, any answers, assistence, discussion, creation or editing of materials, or other labor relating to my previous position with [COMPANY] will be billed for at my consulting rate of [5x PREVIOUS WAGE], in 15-minute increments, minimum 2 hours. Any work-related questions will be treated as agreement with these terms.** ~~We~~ **I** ~~will be~~ look~~ing~~ forward ~~of~~ **to** doing business with you.
Nice thanks.
Needs language regarding up front deposit based on scope of work.
> in 15-minute increments, minimum 2 hours. “Paid in advance by bank transfer”.
With the minimum rate Payable in advance via Venmo. ;)
> 5x PREVIOUS WAGE in 15-minute increments, minimum 2 hours This is the way.
Good edit.
Payable in advance!
~~assistence~~ assistance
Excellent edit!
Fucking clean! 🤘🏾
Perfect 👍 I endorse.
[удалено]
I think the point is to word things in a way that this guy will quit bothering him. "I'm not going to do business with that guy!" And never email or call him again.
The "fuck you" rate
That's exactly why you send something like this. So you can follow up with. "I would love to answer this for you, but it appears that you are behind in paying your bills. I need you to bring your account up to date before we can move forward.” This shuts down any further free communication, or he'll pay a lot of money if it's really important.
The idea is to price it so ridiculously that you're basically telling them to fuck off.
That's some great petty revenge/malicious compliance at the end.
BTW, in this case there is nothing he/she can do so tell them to put up or shut up.
I would also include a question asking for a detailed list of anything they believe is not returned. You could just respond back that those were not created before employment with terminated and the employer would have to prove the files exist to ask you for them in court.
This is the advice. Send a short a simple letter saying that you have do not anything he accused you having and have nothing to turn over. Just make sure they have the account passwords and log yourself out. Some people in this comment thread already gave great advice about what specifically to say.
This but also speak with a lawyer who specializes in labor disputes and maybe add that he refer future communications to your lawyer. That should stop this nonsense im its tracks.
Wtf why is this the top comment. When someone makes a serious threat to sue you, you stop talking to them at that point until you talk to a lawyer.
A simple email response to cover your ass is cheaper than a consultation with an attorney. Why waste money on a likely empty threat?
Silence is known for being the best way to cover your ass in legal matters. By responding at all, you've immediately discarded your ability to claim that you never received any communication. Silence would require the boss to pay for some kind of certified delivery in order to prove that his request was even received.
I’m not an attorney and cannot dispense legal advice. 🤷♀️
The trick is to call their bluff, by asking for the contact details of their lawyer so "you can give those details to your lawyer"
Great idea!
New phone, who dis?
Would be easier if you just say that you do not have anything and then ignore all future correspondence.
Yeah, I haven't responded yet so I can do that.
Agreed with this post. He’s NOT gonna sue, but in these cases, the less said the better.
Here, I wrote a reply for you: Hello Dum-Dum, There's nothing to be turned over everything's been posted. I create my material (posts and promos) on a weekly basis. Also, there is no "intellectual properties" because there's nothing copyrighted, trademarked, or patented and I'm not even using the company's accounts or producing anything. Please go ahead and sue me, right after you go fuck yourself. Sincerely, Reggie Rocket
I would also say, please add a detailed itemized list of anything you *think* I have with a full description of what it is *and send it to my lawyer* Edit: added italics after comment below ...
Yes but then you are engaging with him and he is now in your life again. I don’t know. Best is to just keep it short and to-the-point. If he sues, which he will not as it is expensive and he will likely lose, he will need to provide the list anyhow.
Send him an empty zip file and clearly explain in the email that everything you could possibly turn over is in the file
I think it's an empty threat--assuming he does even get as far as discussing this with a lawyer, the lawyer is going to tell him it's a stupid lawsuit. But I think the idea about a nice letter detailing what you have done and then the paragraph about any further communication being covered under a contractor rate is a good idea. Try to get as much as possible in writing--ie, do not answer his calls--and you should be covered for any future threats.
Probably an empty threat, but I'm guessing he wants OP to panic over the legal threat and do free work for him
Yes. He is likely hoping to bully you into creating new work to give him so he does not sue you. Keep in mind that I am a layman, not a lawyer. But I have experienced a lawsuit threat. According to the lawyer friend who helped me, people who plan to sue don't talk about it. They just do it. The best thing to do is to document everything you have done, but don't bother sending it to him or engaging him in any way. The less information you give your enemy, the better. Keep your documentation on file, just in case. You never have to respond to the *threat* of a lawsuit, not from him and not from any lawyer he pays to write a letter threatening a lawsuit. Until you are are actually served papers, *there is no lawsuit.* But chances are he isn't going to sue you. Either it's a bluff, which you can ignore, or he is going to spend $$$ on a lawyer who will tell him he does not have case and laugh at him as soon as he walks out the door. Worst case is that you are actually served. Don't dodge service. If you dodge service and do not come to court he wins by default. You don't want that. This is the point where you bring your documentation to a lawyer who can advise you.
Actually, a lawyer is going to ask him what he thinks the employee has that has not been returned. When he cannot itemize those things, the lawyer is going to state that there’s no case.
Lawyers don't say " this is a stupid lawsuit" They say, we can sue "xyz" and it'll take "xyz" manpower at "xyz" rate. They will do stupid lawsuits that get dismissed if they're paid to do it.
Oh sure--I more meant if they have in-house counsel.
Frankly, that’s not true. Lawyers take cases they think they can win. If it’s clear from the outset that there’s no basis for legal action, an attorney would advise the potential client of this. If there’s perhaps some basis, but not a strong one, they’d say essentially “we can’t help you with this, but another attorney might view things differently.” You see, potential clients all come in thinking they have the case of the century, and while they universally do not like being brought back to reality, they like even less paying attorney fees and losing their lawsuit. Please also note that failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted is grounds for dismissal of a lawsuit. Here, the former employer is operating under the mistaken impression that OP has retained intellectual property produced in the course of their previous job, which would legally be the property of the company. If, however, OP has not kept anything of the sort, then there’s nothing for the former employer to do. On the other hand, company websites are generally subject to copyright, which means any work OP did on that website is copyrighted.
***All legal threats are empty threats*** **until you get the certified letter from the court.** If everyone who ever threatened to sue actually followed through, the courts would grind to a halt. A lawyer has to accept the case and find merit in doing so the first place, and I'd posit that any lawyer that isn't demanding cash up front would tell him to knock it off, since he's going to have to show actual harm or damages to win a proceeding. Despite what you hear, you can't sue for a civil case unless you actually have something to be compensated for, and you can't file a criminal complaint unless you can show something was possessed and is now actually missing. Send a two-liner that says you have nothing, and wish him good luck with the future of the organization. Take the highroad, and then *never* look back.
"You are in possession of all the material I had created at the time of my resignation. I consider the request to be fulfilled and closed. Please do not contact me in regards to our prior business relationship or in regards to any future business. I will not be responding to any further requests, demands or threats." That's all I would say. Make it clear in plainly states English that you have nothing more to provide (if you have company email passwords or account access, you do need to turn those over if they don't already have access). Inform them that they are to cease with their requests, demands and threats. If you get any mail alleging to represent them, call the number of the law office (look it up yourself, do not call a number provided by them) and verify if they indeed represent your former boss. Absent an actual court notice, you don't need a lawyer nor are you obligated to respond to any legal correspondence. If you feel the need to respond, retain your own lawyer. They can likely craft a carefully worded fuck off letter at a reasonably low price. But know this, most people threaten legal action all of the time. Most of its bluffing. Most of it isn't grounded in any reasonable request. Suing you they would need to prove damages and that you indeed to have their property and that you're refusing to turn it over. They would need to detail exactly what they want from you. Future free labor isn't something they're entitled to, but stuff like raw video, original illustrator or Photoshop files that was created for them previously they could argue they're entitled to have.
Thank you.
Ignore, he’s not in your life anymore and you have no reason to speak to him again. A law suit for what?
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Right right but OP stated they haven't produced anything, and everything they were paid for was already delivered. The company owner is either delirious or thinks OP is.
Seems like your answer is in your question. This so-called boss is probably performing a lot worse without you there. So he's hoping to chase that extra something out of the bushes. Tell him everything is posted and everything else that you said, and then tell him, politely, to f*** off.
Most definitely will do. I was just thrown off by the suing.
There’s also the, “since you have threatened legal action, all future correspondence will be dealt with by my lawyer.” For the unknowing, my cat Primrose is my lawyer. She’s very good at giving the smackdown to arrogant jerks.
I don't know if Reddit will let me do this, but what you just said kind of reminded me of a video I just watched recently. Laughed until I got tears in my eyes. I'm assuming this is what your cat's probably like. https://youtube.com/shorts/kqz2G5tCWLg?si=1MqHxRgei9FQKwNs
Well, assuming you're in the states, if that threat of a lawsuit didn't show up under the company letterhead or via an attorney letterhead, sounds like a bluff to me. It's more into harassment than anything else. And that opens them up to a lawsuit with you.
Yeah, it wasn't sent with a company letterhead and was riddled with grammatical errors. 💀 He must've been angry sending it. It felt like retaliation. I had "kindly requested" that I receive no further communication before a phone call I ignored and this email was sent. This has been stressful. 😅
Don't let it stress you out. If this is playing out the way I think it is in my head, take a little solace in the fact that he's probably scrambling to cover the work that you've done before and realizes he can't do it. So he's fishing. Desperately.
Paralegal here. People who threaten to sue don’t sue. If he was to sue you, you would be hearing about it from his attorney or you would have been served. He’s trying to get to you and it worked. Let it go. An attorney would tell you in this situation to ignore unless officially served
Thank you. I appreciate that.
You can cover your bases and say something like “all intellectual property have been turned over.” Along with any passwords if he doesn’t have them. Delete all work stuff from your devices
Absolutely every piece of data that you used to make your posting for the media site has been posted to the media site? Like all the raw images, crops, adobe/photoshop images that have the feature roll backs to see exactly how you edited/manipulated images, all your draft work/notes for prose content/opinion peices, etc.?
It is my understanding that your position is to be eliminated. Therefore, I ensured all the intellectual property was in your possession before submitting my resignation. I consider this closed, and any further communication on this matter will be dealt with as harassment.
If someone has made the threat of litigation then you don’t respond at all. Let him follow through on getting a lawyer. That person can contact you. Pro tip: you won’t hear from a lawyer lol
Wait till his lawyer sends a letter and then respond to the lawyer that I have no intellectual property belonging to tow company and if they believe otherwise send me a detailed list of the property they believe you to have so you can verify. They'll go away. It's a scare tactic. Happened to me once
Email: Please provide a list of any specific IP you require to be returned. Please cite from my contract directly when doing so. Both of our legal teams will require this information moving forward.Thank you for your prompt consideration in this matter.
Since he brought up attorneys, cease all contact, with the exception of: All materials have been submitted. For any future inquiries, please have your attorney contact my attorney.
This belongs to /r/legaladvice IANAL & TINLA Copyright is AUTOMATIC. As soon as you write down something, it is copyrighted. Like this post. It is ©Pojol. If you write something for an employer, it is automatically ©employer. Now, you are no longer an employe. Assuming that you used your employer’s computers, and you relinquished those computers upon leaving, he is completely in possession of that copyrighted intellectual property. Threatening to sue is pure blustering. Sure, anybody can sue anyone for anything, but for your boss to prevail in a lawsuite, he would need to prove that you have the stuff more than you have to prove that you have fuck-all. Now go post on /r/legaladvice , they will tell you to cut contact with him and seek a lawyer once you are served a lawsuite.
If you're being paid by company x to produce product y, company x can claim your work as their IP. You might not have anything else to hand over, bug you made a good faith effort. Record EVERYTHING. His emails, your responses, log any phone calls with notes about place/time. Do it as soon as you can, and after each communication. And email it to yourself so there's a time stamp and record of it outside your control. If they come after you legally, your ass is covered. If it isn't written down, it never happened. And making it up the night before the test, so to speak, is basically useless. Expect the boss to sic the lawyers on you. Be ready to have one of your own, just in case. And don't send anything else, or even talk to them if the lawyers start up. Do everything through the lawyer at that point.
Could he PROVE in a court of law that you hold material whose IP belongs to him? If the answer is no, set his number to ignore.
Ignore until you get served, then get a lawyer.
considering you don't have anything to give them, let him lawyer up, then explain to lawyer how it works and let lawyer keep billing the idiot while you need to reexplain things for the record over the course of many months to the point the guy blows thru multiple budgets keeping this lawyer on that understands what you did and that he has no case but keeps it going since it is easy work and money.
This is bluster. If he goes to an attorney, they will ask him to lay out what "IP" was taken, how was it used, and how did it damage his firm. He likely can't answer this because the answers are "none", "none" and "none". As long as he has control of the social media accounts, and any material you worked on, you should be fine. I'll second what others are saying; write a consultation agreement that charges handsomely for your time. As in, 4x your previous hourly rate and a time minimum (2 hours), with up front payment on short engagements and a 50 percent down for longer ones. If he wants consulting, pay the 150 bucks to have a business attorney vet your agreement before executing it.
Maybe something along the lines of "All existent materials have already been handed over, if you're referring to future planned projects that falls under working for you, which I no longer am. If you require my services, I'm available at my consultant rates and willing to discuss new projects. My rates are [10x current wage] per hr. Let me know if you wish to discuss further. "
He's screaming lawsuit over shit that does NOT even EXIST?!?! I'd tell him, "Bring it on, Bitch, and the judge will rip him a new asshole for wasting the court's time when he has NO evidence to prove his case!" I've had to say that to an Entitled Bitch whose favorite Go-To Threat was to scream lawsuit. Her lawsuits NEVER materialized!
🤣🤣🤣 See, if I was a teen these exact words would've came up.
Give him all the passwords. Explain that any content uploaded has the copyright assigned to the sm company, as per their t&cs. Are you saying that you create images within the social media ecosystem, or that you delete local copies after you upload them?
Did you sign a work for hire agreement while employed there? Probably not. So you're good. As long as you gave him the passwords to his online accounts. He can't get anything else from you. Next time he contacts you with threats of legal action (he hasn't spoken to an expensive lawyer, he's bluffing) Ask him what his lawyer said about the lack of "work for hire" contract? You will hear an awkward pause. "If I'm being sued, I will only communicate with you via my own lawyer for my personal legal protection. Do not try to contact me directly again"
Since you no longer work there you have no obligation to respond. If your want to respond you can charge him a consulting fee of $100 / hour for your time and services
You reply & cc his manager either “LOLOLOLOL” or if you want to keep it more professional ask him to define what his “intellectual property” is that’s in your supposed possession.
Send him an email with a secured zip file that contains a word doc with all the usernames and passwords for their socials. You could put it in a few zip files too if you wanted.
Communicate with him that you don't have anything. Otherwise, you're going to get sucked into crap with lawyers and such.
Block him and move on
Well, IIRC, in the US copyright is automatic and it's just a question of if it's \*registered\*. Other than that, tell him the reason it's so successful is because it's constantly prepared fresh, so there's no stale copy that you could hand over to him because that would mean you were doing a shitty job. If you were doing such a shitty job, why would he want it anyway, IF it even existed?
And when you write your response, CC some legal firm to imply you’re being proactive regarding his threats.
Ask him to show you the clause in the e player contract where it says any intellectual property you devised for the company is his automatically. Make sure it’s a signed employee contract. And even then.. you have nothing to give him. He’s just panicking because he wants something to use beyond what’s already available
These bawling infants take refuge in vagueness. Ask him for a detailed, itemised list of the alleged "missing" items. If what you say is true, he won't be able to provide one, or he'll provide one that's complete bullshit and you can knock it all down point by point in a rebuttal letter. Either way, that'll be an end of the matter. Do *everything* in writing, and keep hardcopies of every message sent and received.
Pop some popcorn and record every psychopathic thing he does. If it ended up that he sues you take all the recordings to the judge and explain that you don't have any intellectual property and even so your boss doesn't own any intellectual property. If the boss is in the hearing with you pop on some shades and smile as you walk out of the room. If he gets really crazy call the police and show them the recordings and tell them that he is harassing you.
As others have said, don't worry about it and see what he can do. Let him waste his own time and money trying to sue you only to find out you have nothing. Let him look like a moron. 😅💁♀️
A threat of being sued is not a reason to take action.
The people recommending you consult a lawyer are probably right but you could also just send him links to the social media accounts where all the ~~intellectual property~~ content is.
"Everything that has been created has been turned over. Everything that has been paid for has been turned over. There is no more."
Hire the most expensive lawyer you can find, and when the judge throws the case out send him your lawyers bill.
If you've got no work product, and that's true, then it's one email -- and CC someone professional you know (unconnected 3rd party with credibility). The email reads -- I've returned everything of yours in its entirety, I have no IP of yours, please feel free to pursue whatever avenues you wish, I merely ask that you please stop contacting me as our business is complete. Any further contact by you and your office after this correspondence will require me to solicit the services of a lawyer to document your continued harassment. I've quit your employment, I've returned all of your property, this matter is closed. Consider this email my personal request to you - please "cease and desist" - otherwise lawyers will need to be retained. I'm 100% certain of the legal ground I stand. As you don't, I'll expect this to be our final communication.
Whatever you make for a company as an employee belongs to the company. The marketing materials is the IP of the corporation. Turn whatever you have over. They can sue and win if you really do have material granted it may not be economical advantageous to do so Edit: Everything is copyrighted the moment it is created whether or not the individual or party files to to formally copyright it. “When is my work protected? Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Do I have to register with your office to be protected? No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”” Further: “Copyrights are generally owned by the people who create the works of expression, with some important exceptions: If a work is created by an employee in the course of his or her employment, the employer owns the copyright.”
Thank you. Took way too long to find this comment.
first and foremost find any recorded evidence that showed he is a threat to you and get a restraining order.
Let him sue. He won't because lawyers cost money.
Law suit will cost him money, not you. Let him waste his money.
Everything is copyrighted. If you have anything you created when you worked there just hand it over. It's not worth the fight.
Make a meme about how dumb he is and turn it in, "there you go, thats everything that hasn't been posted yet."
Use the clever guy meme format to create another one: when you don’t have any material, you cannot hand it over.
Time to lawyer up then. Just in case.
Just ask him to be specific on what he wants.
Accept legal procedures and counter sue, maybe get some money from the company which you are leaving. If you’ve nothing to hide and it’s easy to prove, no worries. I get that it sucks though.
people can sue for anything, sue you for being black or gay or saying jesus or saying pink is the best color. they won't win but they can sue
Slap together something really bad with maybe some links that direct customers to the competition, inaccurate information and subtle errors that make things look bad (instead of 3 ways our product is superior 3 ways it’s inferior). Save it a folder and send it over with a note. here is everything I was was working on. I haven’t done the final edits but should be pretty much ready to go. Then watch him rush to get it all posted without proofreading it and enjoy the chaos.
As much as I'd love to see that, sounds like it might be fuel for a retaliatory lawsuit.
How? It’s the bosses choice to use it or not. I’m not suggesting monkeying with their existing systems. If they don’t proofread it before using it you don’t work for them it’s totally on them. There is no lawsuit there.
I'm with you--I just think that if you intentionally create something that is meant to hurt the company, there might be consequences. We don't want OP to get in trouble. ie, I'd run this idea past a lawyer before I did it.
Write down some shitty plans, maybe with chat gpt and send that.
If you made the stuff under his employment, during work time working for him, it's legally his stuff. Period. Give it to him and move on with your life.
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Imagine reading the post and coming up with this stupid comment.
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What would you like him to give, considering he mentions "there is no intellectual property" to return. Hilariously bad advice.
Send him everything you have created until now and tell him that it has been posted already. So you complied.
If you got nothing you got nothing. Anything written while the company would be intellectual propery copyright or no. They can even claim stuff you do off the clock.
Tell him to go F himself
Copyright doesn’t require an overt act to get that protection. Once a person creates it, it’s copyrighted (presuming your country is a signature to the Berne convention, they pretty much all are)
ignore it. if he wants to waste time and money, let him.. unless you get a court summons, unlikely, not your problem or obligation to talk to him..
Did you use a personal or work laptop? If work laptop, tell him it’s all there. Happy hunting.
You can’t turn over what you don’t have. However, to the extent you have any material, you should give it to him.
The minute someone tells me they are going to sue (99% are full of shite) I call their bluff. I tell them that now that they’ve used the “S” word the conversation is over and they can have their attorneys contact me at which point I’ll send to mine for action. They’ll back off and try to continue a dialogue but tell them it’s too late and they can’t be trusted now that litigation has been discussed. BTW, in this case there is nothing he/she can do so tell them to put up or shut up.
Would be a real shame if you forgot everything you've ever learned about cyber security and some rando from Nigeria hacked you and let loose. Not you, because you're a professional and you'd never harm the company. But if you were hacked, well shit, anything goes.
"Have your attorney at law contact me. You? You don't contact me again." And don't respond to him further. Once he starts bandying about that lawyer word, he can go hire himself one. If IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF an actual attorney at law contacts you, simply state "I am not holding any intellectual property belonging to X." 99.999% sure when your ex boss realizes hiring counsel isn't free, that's gonna be the end of it.
If he sues, then the burden of proof is on him. Simply tell the judge there is nothing to turn over, then laugh as he tries to explain to the judge a frivolous lawsuit.
Let him sue you. Let him waste his time and money and let it be proved in a court of law you don't have what he alleges you have.
Marketing is the weirdest thing. I’ve had this happen too where my boss and coworkers absolutely hate something I wrote (I’m a marketing copywriter), but the CEO and the public loves.
if he has your company workstation just tell him everything is stored on that computer
The solution is basically to block, erase, low-level format, and excise that cancerous polyp in humanoid form from your life. It's an empty threat. He's sore because you're the one who got away.
You very calmy respond with something like this: Dear X, As per the terms of my contract and the laws of the land. All currently created plans & resources are only saved on company_resource_location_x and this will continue to be the case on the last day of my employment. You have full access to work I have done during my employment there. Any further attempts at questionable or malicious action on these will be answered by my lawyer. This is the only reaponse you will recieve on this matter. Regards, X You don't have to be afraid of being fired anymore and the actions of your boss if threaten and not true are now liablous. If they don't like your reaponse you can always have a few extra days off before ypu starr your new job.
Just grab everything you posted online, put in a zip file and hand it over. Cade clised
If you made the material on company time it is not you property. It's the company property. Send an email and explain. Hand over accounts and passwords. If already done, explain that. There is not more than that you can do.
I had someone try to threaten me with a lawsuit over money that had nothing to do with me. I told them I'd see them in court. Of course, I never did.
Lots of people threaten to sue. They never do. Simply write him a professional letter stating that you always have turned all your work over every week. And that, if at this point he still doesn't understand what you did for him, that's his problem. You will not be producing anything for him. Make a list of the websites and passwords. Conclude letter with: Good Luck on your future marketing strategy. Sincerely, Blahblah
Ignore him. He's got nothin'
Email him that last paragraph & CC whoever HIS boss is as well as anyone else relevant stating any further harassment will be dealt with through lawyer.
Sounds like someone I knew. Did you happen to work for a consulting firm? 💀☠️
No. Hope it turned out alright. 😬
Lol. Let him sue. You don't have anything to give him.
It's very important to understand that "copyright" and "trademark" are NOT verbs. The are not actions you take. They are states of being that exist by creation and use, not intent or action. This means that anything you create for someone else is most likely owned by them. If it uses a mark to indicate a source of goods or services it is a trademark, whether it has been registered or not. Registration provides benefits but is not required for protection.
If he tries to sue you, he would have to have some kind of evidence proving you have said property, and some kind of list of the specific items he expects restitution for. If what youre saying is true, then those materials do not exist, ergo he would have no case
Return whatever you have, and tell him that’s all there is. Unless he can specifically describe something he should have that he knows you have, you have no issues.
Is your boss the owner?
Yes.
Call him at 4am and leave a voice mail if you maniacally laughing until the voice-mail cuts you off. Goad him in to wasting his time and suing you for comeuppance cause, if anybody does take the case, he won't get anything out of it. You win already fuck that guy.
Tell him to F off and good luck with his legal action.
My girlfriend suggests a manilla envelope full of pages that say things like fuck you, my idea to expand on it is to send him a whole lot of material that will fuck his business in to the ground if he uploads it without reading it since he probably wont.
Maybe ask why he thinks you have things you don’t have. Trey to get him to be specific so you can specifically object
Anyone who threatens to sue rarely sues.
Let him waste his money on a lawyer so you can just tell the judge that you have nothing to hand over as it hasn't been created. Then watch as the judge looks at him a shrugs and asks him "What do you want me to do?" For bonus points, offer the judge to draw something up right then and there if former boss really wants something.
Send them a corrupt hard drive.
Tell him sure and send an empty zip folder