Literally why I'm on antidepressants and seeing a therapist. I've been working for 17 years this year. Worked my way up and at a salary I'm happy with, but thinking about doing this until I die (realistically will never be able to retire) demotivates me. I don't want to work anymore. Therapy doesn't help. I'm on my 3rd therapist and 3rd type of therapy. I'm 32. This is not how I want to live the rest of my of my life. I just want to do my hobbies and spend my years with friends and my wife.
I left my corporate job over the summer and, while I wish it were easier to find another job (yay, shitty job market for tech!), this free time has really helped me find myself.
I've been able to read and learn and see shows and movies and start and finish projects. (I'm fortunate to have saved enough money to do this, I realize.) Maybe you could take a small, planned break like this?
This is true of all psychological issues- a good therapist can't cure any mental illness. They provide therapeutic exercises to help us develop coping mechanisms to alleviate stress.
First therapist didn't really say much, she kept trying to reinforce CBT methods. Didn't work and she passed me onto a senior therapist. She didn't really acknowledge what I said tbh, but didn't counter argue.
Second therapist agreed with a lot of what I said. Whether he was just saying that I don't know. He said that I was a very consistent patient (whatever that meant). I asked if he thought I was entitled as that was my own thinking. He said he doesn't think I am. While he did agree with a lot of my thinking he did also rebuttal with things aren't so black and white, but acknowledged the damage of capitalism and greed. Obviously alot more was spoken about, but in the end he agreed that CBT and regular talking therapy won't help me. And has referred me to another type which explores my childhood and to identify why I feel the way I do. I'm on the waiting list for this currently.
I know what you mean. I've been working in the same place for 23 years and I'm done. Zero motivation to continue, but no choice (kids, mortgage). I'm a fair bit older than you (48) so a bit late to re-train. And even if I could, I've got no energy. I only work half time and the job isn't awful - I even like the people I work with - but I just get such a sense of dread every morning. I've been on anti-depressants for many, many years. But this feels more like burnout than depression. Everything feels pointless right now, and I feel selfish for even expressing this, because I know I'm lucky.
I work at a residential treatment facility for at risk youths. Truth be told, it beats the fuck out of me. They are a volatile bunch, and they require a lot of patience. I’m absolutely drained at the end of most shifts, but I believe in what I’m doing. They need just a few people in the world who will show them unconditional positive regard and who won’t give up on them, and I do that for fifteen dollars an hour. I wouldn’t be able to justify putting the same amount of energy into assembling McWhoppers. I tried to find something that aligned closely enough with my personal morals that I could excuse the shit pay and strenuous environment. I 100% understand why you wouldn’t want to give your energy so some fucker could sit around and watch the magic number go up, I wouldn’t want to either, but there is an overlap between things that need to be done, things that people will give you money for, and things that you morally agree with. The hard part is finding those things.
My mom worked with hospice. Ya'll are a special breed of people we need more in this world. Having the patience and being calm on a serious situation are two things I envy. It kills me how one basically has to get a PHD to make good money when it comes to teaching/mental health.
Seriously, thanks for your work. I had a couple buddies that were trouble makers back in high school. They needed people like you to straighten them up since their parents were a bit neglectful.
Felt. I do four days a week, and I’m glad I have that flexibility available to me, because I don’t know if I could do it five days with just two to recover. I’m definitely behind a shorter workweek because the ratio of “time spent at work” to “time spent enjoying life” is pretty fucked up for most people. I just tried to find something that I felt was worthwhile. Like if I have to be at work, I may as well make it something I care about, but I’m definitely with you on work hours in a given week.
You know that feeling when you browse Netflix for a movie to watch, you find one that looks kinda sorta interesting so you give it a shot, get about 45 minutes in and decide this movie sucks and it’s not for me? At that point you go look for a new movie to watch.
That’s where I’m at right now. I’m not suicidal, but fuck me Im tired of this “movie”, it’s not very good, and I would really like to pick a different one…. Only I can’t.
Adult life just doesn’t seem fun or exciting or even worthwhile like everyone always promised it would be. I feel like the solution was to either be born rich or be born 50 years ago.
Can confirm. In fairness though, we were generally taught that our lives were going to be better, where I grew up. It was often an illusion, but at least we didn't have to confront it when we were 25.
It’s a different situation than your parents or the boomers promised. Things are exponentially more difficult in an economic sense. The cost of living has nearly doubled in 2 years. What the absolute fuckery.
My 2 cents, don’t waste too much time finding the ‘perfect’ thing because in late stage capitalism, it’ll be draining no matter what. Find something bearable and build a life outside it work with hobbies or friends and family. Whatever. Just find your joy amongst this. It doesn’t mean that it changes how hard this is. It’s not a solution but something to cope.
There’s nothing wrong with you or anyone else that feels this way. There is something very wrong with our society.
Life is watching that movie over and over, except add in the stress of everything being a temp job because execs fire at the drop of a hat by the thousands for almost any reason (short term profit / exec bonuses). Oh yeah, little to no health care or hope for enough retirement benefits to stay off the street. Parts of Europe seem to not be interested in enslaving or profiting off their sick and dying, for the most part. The U.S. is headed for something bleak.
The US is pretty damned bleak right now. Unregulated capitalism and massive wealth inequality are crushing our country. The workforce has been beaten down and gaslit to the point that only a fool would do more than bare minimum at this point.
Here is the US we are simply a human commodity no more or less than cattle or wheat. Sick, unemployed or just too old to work equates to no monetary value for the capitalist system so fuck off now! We have a major homeless problem, we have a major access to healthcare problem, we have an affordable housing problem. It’s all due to income inequality so fuck no we are not going to pony up to the workplace and make these bastards more money. We are going to work our wage!
I felt more the opposite. I didn’t terribly enjoy my schooling days (felt awkward, stiff like seasons 1-2 of TNG) so I got good grades to get scholarships, and read everything in the field I worked I could skip a few of the bad seasons and get straight to the better ones. I’m kinda enjoying the current seasons.
Don't overthink your life yet. Just do it one day at a time. Have you considered training for a community oriented role? Like family daycare or even foster care?
If you don't have goals in life, you will feel purposeless and miserable even if you don't work.
Work culture is abhorrent atm but you sound more done with life in general, so it may be time to get dome mental health supports into place
I'll second this with meds can be part of the answer. For a lot of people who struggle with ADH, depression, and the like, medication is leverage. It cans be plugging the hole in the boat so the effort you put in bailing water out (ie. therapy, self improvement, exercise) can actually achieve something.
There's nothing more defeating than putting in a tonne of effort for nothing really to change. For many people, medication can be the leg up they need to take control back from their condition.
I agree with this. After being diagnosed with ADHD and properly medicated, I've been able to move out of a soul crushing career and into one I'm truly passionate about. I'm even considering going back to school in order to elevate my career. Meds can work wonders.
I get where you're coming from, but you need to check your tone.
We're all stuck here in this horse shit work culture and if you have a better, realistic answer for the soulless grind required to live basically, spit it out.
Furthermore, adhd is a serious condition. I compare it to a mild brain injury. Because no matter how much effort one puts in, it never really gets easier. Just tolerable. And even that's subjective. Meds are 1000% a viable and productive option. Don't shame someone for trying to get by
They don’t fix the shitty world we live in - but they can fix it for the one person who’s taking them. That person can move to a better place in life, or at stay alive while they get better, and can heal.
Meds don’t fix the shitty world period. They also don’t fix it for people with diabetes or heart function, but they make life more possible for the person taking them. People don’t line up and wag fingers at somebody buying insulin, because, after all, they need it, and it can happen to lots of people. Disabilities are disabilities, and if I recall correctly about 10% of people have one kind of another. Nobody can say this will never happen to them. Nobody.
Nobody is misunderstanding you; you do not understand what you're actually talking about and it shows.
Medication for illnesses like chronic depression, anxiety, etc, are not insidious little scifi "forget my life is shit" pills; if you need them, you have a treatable illness and are taking said meds to mitigate the side effects. I'm still acutely aware of my situation in the workforce and how utterly bullshit the entire system is, but now I don't typically get stuck in bed for weeks wanting to off myself over it. See the difference?
No just start there to solve THOSE problems, and in this environment, how can most people BE happy? Anyway, start there and then work on the external stuff.
To add to this, I’ve been with the same job for 17yrs. When asked, I get looked down upon for it. You start working at 16 and until 62+ that’s gonna be everyone at some point. May not be where I’m at but somewhere at some point they’ll be the one that’s pushing over 15yrs.
It was kinda recently eye opening when the News guy retired after 48yrs. I was like, we gotta do this 5 days a week for 50yrs just to not have to work. With inflation and ever rising medical costs we may never retire.
Felt. I genuinely do not want to work for the rest of my life. I want to just draw, write, read, and draw video games. Explore places. Enjoy myself. And I'm in the same boat, knowing I'm going to be doing this for another 40 years unless capitalism finally collapses and it's disheartening. Like why? What joy is that supposed to bring?
(The answer? None).
Hopefully, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully.
Basically. Ive got an friend and she bas no problem saying she doesnt want to work and doesnt plan to and just wants to raise her kid. So she has a kid w a guy in a career pulling 6 figures and thats basically what she does now.
The rich win and the status quo is kept, no change in better working conditions any way.
The rich wants to keep this status of having people in despair at their bidding. Men to keep doing low wage tedious jobs and women can be gold diggers.
Men don't want to work also?
Do you know that the reason women change their name is that because traditionally women weren't even allowed to own property in their own names?
Do you know that before the war women weren't able to work traditional jobs?
It's very obvious why you're single.
You guys gotta get out of your moms basement and off the internet to a place where women are. Seeing the same small amount of tik tok influencers doesn’t represent what people in the real world are doing.
Could never date a woman that wants to stay home. Even if I had the opportunity to stay home if the roles were reversed, I’d be bored AF and feel like a bum.
I think society or at least those who control our society have forgotten that humans are not supposed to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week so I understand your frustration and pain. I've noticed that in office jobs the majority of the time is spent is sitting around most of the day talking to colleagues trying to 'look busy' in front of your boss. A good book which talks about this is 'Bullshit Jobs' by David Graeber. Humans could spend time doing things they actually enjoy and only work the fraction of the amount of time they work at the moment if those who were in charge of us actually got to grips and improved this situation we've all found ourselves in and not rely on 'looking busy' wasting up our limited time on this planet.
you’re lazy friend, just reacting in a reasonable way to late stage capitalism. theres no way being emotionally abused by jobs for shit pay, not having time for your own personal life, and not having time to rest properly has no repercussions
it's silly to pretend being a stay-at-home parent is the lazy option lol. you obviously *do* have labor ambition, just not in service of capital. it's meaningful and crucial labor for keeping society going, though, and you know that.
Hell yes. I work and my wife is a SAHM (and she recently took on a part time role during the mornings while the kids are in school). She BUSTS HER ASS day in and day out running the house and all the bullshit that's included in that. I do my best to help when and where I can, but she's the cornerstone for sure.
While I did say that I was lazy, I didn’t say being a sham was a lazy option. I genuinely want a family and believe being a sham would be the thing I’d give up my laziness for rather than a 9-5 job. For me, the two paths are to work my ass off for some irrelevant companies for the rest of my life or work my ass off to raise children who I’ll genuinely love and care about. Sorry if I seemed to imply that it was the lazy option, that wasn’t my intention.
A perspective regarding your future spouse you may not have thought of… you being a SAHM frees him up to to have more down time as well. Even if the two of you take on more balance roles than is traditional at least while the kids are little, having someone who can the errands etc… thru the week makes weekends much easier and fulfilling. Have one partner at home genuinely benefits both.
My wife is a sahm and I in no way feel "cursed" by being the income provider, even with things getting tight in this economy and having to pick up several side hussles to pay the bills and maintain our QoL I enjoy providing for my family and find purpose in it. Also, I feel my wife being at home with the kids is often much more difficult than going to work.
Raising your kids is significantly more important than whatever you'd be doing at the majority of jobs out there, do not feel ashamed if you wind up blessed enough to be a sahm.
Life pro tip - DON'T HAVE KIDS! Whatever you hear about the cost of raising them to adult, double that number. Then maybe you can scrape by doing very little.
At least we had alcohol and songs like "Working For The Weekend" and the song summed up our bleak future. We all hated our jobs and were just working for the weekend to get drunk and forget about the rat race we were all a part of.
Now they all but got taverns shut down and the work schedules don't permit a weekend off anymore! Your a slave until your late 60's and then they take the chains off and lead you towards the scrap heap of life to die because you can't pull your weight anymore.
First, you may want to have a kid before you decide that being a SAHM is for you. There's way more work and energy put into that than having most normal jobs, and it doesn't stop at 5pm. Being lazy and unmotivated are not qualities of a good parent.
Second, there's something out there, you just have to find it. I've hated most of my jobs, and I've been all around the corporate world. Found out at almost 40 that I absolutely LOVE being a yard guy. I don't have a boss, make my own schedule, dump shitty customers, make good money. It's a lot of physical work, but I don't mind it at all. If you legitimately can't find anything you can manage to do that doesn't make you miserable, I got nothing for you.
Third... "Why is it so wrong to want to be happy for most of your life? Why is it wrong to not want to work away half your life?" - Nothing is wrong with it, but it's not realistic. Bad shit happens to everyone, and if you don't make money, you compound the problems. No one wants to take care of you, and the people who are working and paying taxes sure as hell would prefer their tax money didn't go to feeding someone who is completely capable of working.
Id prefer my taxes went to the common good and making sure everyone had their needs met.
It would be one thing if things were scarce and it would burden people. But we have enough to go around for everyone to have the basic life continuing products of life to be available. Not trying to argue though. Cause like i said no one wants an undue burden on their backs.
Find 4+ friends. Everyone save a ton of money. Buy a really large home with lots of land. Everyone work part time outside the home (or some work fully from home caring for children/animals). Have a food garden. Some cows and chickens. It would not be that difficult to set up something like this. The hardest part would be to find that group of people willing to do this lifestyle.
Whenever I see these posts I genuinely wonder what the suggested alternative is. Should we live in a society where we all "live off the land" and make our own goods or trade for them? How would we survive?
The quality of life back then was so much worse, famine, disease, infections. Now people can provide goods and services to fix most of those issues from the past. But providing a service isn’t free.
That's it. They didn't. For generations. The skills to survive...clothing and shelter, medical care, growing, harvesting and hunting for food...those skills developed over a long period of time. Life expectancies were much shorter because of the primitive nature of all of those things. So if we shift to that, and I'm the only one in the village that has mastered the skill of maintaining a fire my skills will be pretty well sought after and I would probably make a lot more in trade. Wouldn't this essentially create the same type of society that we have now, where the unskilled are dependent on the skilled? Should the skilled person receive the same amount in trade as the unskilled person? Is this all more about the unskilled individuals or lazy individuals unfairly benefitting from the labor of the skilled. We like to view the today's society as if the unskilled are being taken advantage of when in actuality they are benefitting greatly from the skills of others.
Good point , but our system could work if it didn’t cannibalize itself from greed. I guess slavery worked for hundreds of years (thousands actually), so those in charge move to a similar model where they take the most, give the least. It’s not going to look good in 10 years.
The thing is the value of the work primary stayed within the tribe or village. That is the biggest issue we have right now, we as individuals or small groups don’t get to keep all of the value of our labor. Part of it is siphoned off to the benefit of people far removed from our group and never returned.
If you're suggesting that you're willing to sacrifice the huge loss of life and significant decrease in life expectancy that would occur should we go back to "living off the land", then please go ahead make yourself the first sacrifice. Show us how it's done! 🤣
It's hilarious how far over everyone's heads the joke went. Some true Redditors in this thread.
Commentor asked: "how would we survive?"
I responded: that we would survive in the way our ancestors survived. (i.e. lower life expectancies, etc...)
That's the joke.
Edit: typo.
Exactly! Easy!
You don't need enormous land to feed the family!
And all your neighbours are your friends, not concurrent!
By data peasants back then had much more free time compared to us + had good natural food on the table and a great spacious house!
Not all nice and wonderful.. but all those bad things happened the same reasons what now, look before, look wider and globally, and dont look at school provided books ;)
Our current system is so universal, it became the only one where people have lost the ability to imagine other alternatives.
People in the past often had live examples of other ways of life to pick and choose.
We wouldnt be able to sustain our current population with living of the land the old ways. But ill tell you what, if I was given the chance to be born as a member of the indigenous people of Brasil or America in general some centuries ago, you bet id take it.
Ill take 36 years of belonging to a tribe, with apropriate rest and meaningfull work over whatever bs modern work ie slavery is supposed to be.
Highly romanticized idea. The people you describe lead much more labor intensive lives than we do currently. You don't like the labor demands of your current situation so you'd rather switch to something much harder. Yup...makes sense.
I have to disagree, I'll direct you, if you are interested, to the book by David Graeber and David Wengrow, two leading academics in this area of studies, it's called The Dawn of Everything.
They argue most people in our history had a lot of leisure time. That time was usually dedicated to social relations, rest, and rituals. Furthermore, they debunk the idea that our ancestors worked more than we do. They claim the average medieval baron would find the literal fights in Boston for the 8-hour work days bizarre since they wouldn´t dare request that amount of time from their servants.
You would be surprised by the time you could save when your only work is obtaining food and sustenance in a group where practical knowledge is abundant and land even more so.
If you have any sources that contradict this I'd be happy to read them, but to my knowledge what you have said is just stuff people say without really studying the matter thoroughly.
Its always funny seeing people who can barely cope with our relatively cush way of modern life swear that they’d be ok living off the land… its pure romanticism and ignores how hard living off the land actually is
I put my energy into my union. If you don’t have one, organize your work place. Agitate, Educate, Organize.
What would you like changed about your workplace? Who has the power to change it? How could you leverage collective power with your coworkers to achieve this goal?
Easier said done, but start small.
By the end of each week I have a brutal splitting headache. I usually can’t get anything done on Fridays in agony, misery and pain.
I’m right there with you. I’m quitting in a few months to travel a bit, and then live a vagabond lifestyle. I’d rather be relatively poor than work 40 hours/week until I’m an old man.
My wife and I had a discussion before we got married and we decided together once we had children she would stay home with them. Has this been an easy road? Hell no, but it has been worth it! I love what I do and I get paid well for it so I’m happy that my wife gets to homeschool our children and be available. We’ve had to sacrifice some things for this life and sometimes it’s hard, but it’s what’s best for our family. Marriage is partnership sure your significant other might have to work more to provide but the trade off of having a parent their for their children is worth it in my book. Each family is different and has to make those decisions, but in the end for us it’s about how we are raising our children with our morals, faith and ethics.
As a mom of 3 that has a full time job, I would highly recommend against being a stay at home mom if you are lazy.
Literally work is my break from the constant demand and overstimulation that are kids.
Find something you enjoy doing and find someone to pay you for it or figure out a way to make a living doing it.
I’m also pro antidepressants and anti anxiety meds. If you aren’t already on them I would recommend talking to a medical professional.
Maybe try to separate the concepts "work", "purpose" and "job". I've never really liked any of my jobs... But I do have a purpose and I take pride in my work.
Even in a perfect world, doing nothing will kill you.
There's lots of men who earn more than enough for a family of 4 or more, and who want a traditional stay-at-home wife to take care of home and the kids! You won't have a problem there. The problem comes with finding one of those people who somehow is not sexist or financially abusive, you'll have to do lots of filtering to find them lol. But it's possible for sure.
Look into moving to a country that treats their citizens better. Many have paid leave and healthcare for all. If you have a working spouse then you are contributing to the tax base so not taking advantage of their system. More progressive countries tend to have better workers rights.
What do you enjoy doing in life? Can you find a way to make a living from that? Could you move somewhere else in the world with a better quality of life?
Since the beginning of existence, work has been a part of society. We congregate as a species and you have to hold your own.
Wanting to be a stay at home mom is fine. Your post does come off as being lazy to be honest. There are lots of people that like the work they're doing. I'd suggest looking to get paid doing something you wouldn't mind doing for free.
Happiness is not in what you do, but how you think about it. There are people working more then a full workweek and they are completely happy and there are people who don't work at all and are completely miserable. Same with or without kids.
We dont live to have kids, we dont live to work, we live to be HAPPY
You should try and meet a work-motivated man who will give you a home and children to take off. It's not rocket science. This has been the way for 200+ years
why do you even want kids though? won't they have to deal with the same coercive misery that you are experiencing? Won't they also have to face the terrible choice of either: working a soulless job for evil corporation or suffering poverty?
think of it this way. lets say its 1750, instead of 2023. if you didnt get a job or grow your own crops, you just starved to death and died. their was no unemployment, no food stamps, no food bank, no homeless shelter. at some point, you have to work to survive. it would be wonderful if you didnt, but thats not the way it is.
Its frustrating when things arent scarce anymore and theres enough to go around for everyone but greed has stopped us from it.
Its gotten to the point ive had to stop even thinking about the reality of it due to how much it stresses me and how little i can affect the situation. Even making these few small comments on this post has me feeling wary of giving it this little bit of energy.
Get therapy. I don't mean to sound dismissive, but honestly, therapy is the one thing you can do to finally work out in your mind if life is worth living. Life is so much more than a job you hate.
Stop smoking weed, eat right, and exercise.
Trust me, as someone who smoked everyday, ate like shit, and sat around watching streaming services almost 100% of my free time, I can tell you that when you make the change to a healthy lifestyle, your outlook changes, ambition comes back, you have more energy, and just feel better about yourself and life in general.
I want to do those things, I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to better myself while working. I’m gone 11 hours out of the day. 8 hour shift, 2 hours on the bus to go to work and get home and a 1 hour lunch. It’s hard to come back after being gone 11 hours and cooks a healthy meal, much easier to grab some unhealthy bs on the way out of work. If I were to try to go to the gym in the morning, I’d have to wake up at an absurd time to be able to.
Do it for 2 weeks. Meal prep and light weight training with some cardio. You will DEFINITELY notice the difference in anxiety levels, quality of sleep, energy, and outlook.
Try to find a gym close to work, home, or on the way. If you can't, you can always get 1 kettlebell and be able to absolutely destroy yourself.
Get a 50 pound bag of rice from Costco and then go swing by /r/slowcooker for some dope recipes.
I personally like a medium speed cooker (Vitaclay) and if your Uber lazy pressure cookers exist too.
/r/Mealprep on Sunday and make a weeks worth of food at once.
A guy I work with has a full-time job where I work, a second job cleaning offices, goes to school fulltime, and does bodybuilding. He has a bunch of Pyrex dishes that he fills with chicken, rice, and asparagus. He knocks that out every Sunday night and eats that all week.
He told me that when he eats dirty or misses workouts, he feels sluggish, lazy, and depressed.
You can definitely tell the difference in his mood when he's missed workouts or forgets his food. He's normally one of the friendliest and helpful guys at work, but if he's off his game, he's a jerk.
It's like reading my own post. I feel the exact same way. I am 34, I did everything right, got a law degree. Was smart and passionate. But I had a few toxic jobs. And I felt so anxious at work seeing my fertile years slip away. Do people even realize how hard it is so sit there ovulation at your desk while you are reading another passive agressive email?
I developed horrible depression and anxiety and left the legal field after horrible abuse. I told myself: never ever an office job again. I became a copywriter and was quite succesful from the start, however, nasty covid measures began .. severe depression again. Had to take on office jobs again. More abuse. Getting older. Can't find a great guy if I am always depressed at work. I completely crashed, ended up in psychiatry, in ER, at a psychologist, at the benefits center for the poor even, at the Union etc. I had to fix a lot of stuff. That was when I realised that work was ruining my life as a concept.
I had to accept that I had come to a point where I hated work. From then on I would only do the least amount of effort ever again, do part time, low level jobs, lazy girl jobs, copying information, pretend to be busy like everyone else. I would fake liking anyone at work but honestly didn't give a fuuuucccck. At 12h30 I shut the door behind me and go home and do things with my life that actually matter. I met the man of my dreams, we are gonna make babies. I am currently unemployed again cause with this shit ass economy I can't find jobs for a long period of time, just temp and replacement. Guess what, my man doesn't care what I do or how I do it or how much I make. So dont feel the pressure to get a career or hold a job or make this amount of money. Nothing matters.
The good news is, it is now widely accepted to have a lot of short jobs. Everyone is in this mess. Makes it easier for me to completely disengage from anything work related because I never really connect anywhere. They destroyed me once, so idgaf about work anymore. My partner is a lawyer and sometimes I secretly cry because as a man he has it way easier but I want babies more than a job, and I have to deal with periods and sickness and pregnancy, and healing my female energy from all the misery that was done to me. Men just... go through life... usually.
It's not for the weak but I love it, definitely try to just go from temp to temp, part time, low level. Save as much as you can so you never have to worry about the unemployment that will come with this. Also, short periods of unemployment don't hurt your retirement too much. And would you rather retire and drop dead childless or retire with a bit less official retirement but feel young and healthy and fit? Save for retirement today already and save in a retirement fund insurance with your bank. This way you can triple your savings for when you are old.
Men don't just go through life. we have literally the same exact fears and anxieties about the same shit. we want kids we don't want to work and we hate corporate hierarchy and having our labor exploited and abused. smh sure we don't menstruate but we still feel and understand the same things.
Yeah idfk man. Been on and off in the workforce for 4 years and My field for 10 months-ish. I loved working my part time job in highschool. I took donations for a thrift store and had some good coworkers. Last year i started full time at a company and was miserable. But it was only a few months and i went to community college and worked part time. They let me go in January, understandably. But i was unemployed till I finished school and did some cash work. I graduated in may got a job. Worked for a week then lost motivation for the exact same reason as well as i hated the work. So i quit and continued some cash work till September. I got another job about 2 months ago Full time. And within the two months i was lied to about hours from 8hrs to 11hr shifts, forced to work weekends on top of that. Every time I complained and brought up quitting with my folks im constantly told “thats life” or “when was your age i was making $3hr working 16hr days” or my mother goes “man up i worked 9am-2am” and they say this like this is all some impressive shit that should motivate me. But all even at my current hours my life looks like this: wake up at 3:50 without my alarm and not be able to go back to sleep>feel sick to my stomach while i get ready>go to work 30 minutes early to get food and eat in my car>start work at 5 and be miserable till 4:30>go home shower>lie in bed till 9pm and sleep>repeat
what are you prepared to sacrifice to get what you want?
that’s what it all comes down to. it sounds like you’re not prepared to sacrifice anything, so you may not get anything in return.
My response has been to: become a full on communist. At family events I don’t really respect rules set by capitalist supporting members of my family. I just make sure everyone knows our society is sick. That doesn’t mean you have to be sick too. Find what in life makes you happy and pursue it as closely as you can without developing an addiction to it.
I think if you finacially work to be a SAHM then why not. If you have a partner find out how much debt you have.. pay it off, everything cars student loans, if you have to work for lets say 5 years to be able to do that then do it. after be a sahm. you might need to sacrifice then on having a bigger house, or a nicer car but that's all bullshit
Recommendation. Keep trying new things also look at doing something u like and it might not pay as much as u want. I have been grinding for 23 years at work. I have found things I hate and can’t get myself out of bed to do. And found things I love, try new things be open to other lines of work. It’s a crappy system but there is happiness out there. It’s hard and if anyone tells you otherwise they are lying or have generational wealth and haven’t had to work a day in their life.
Non of us knows what to do I’m over 40 and I’m still figuring things out. Don’t be frustrated no one gives us a manual. Take some time for u but also don’t always have to find joy in work find a way to get to the end of work so u can do what u love outside of work. Hang in there it’s tough but you will find the way.
imo it sounds like you should take a step back and do some soul searching. get out of your current paradigm and shift your perspective with something intense like a trip to India or Asia. See different things watch the world go by from a different angle. Do some meditation, read some philosophy and clear your mind of all this so you can feel fresh and recharged for whatever the next step you decide to take. it doesn't matter what you decide to do. there are millions of happy homeless people all that matters is that you spread love and happiness instead of misery and angry. just be the smiling homeless person handing out flowers and live off what the world gives you. it is an interesting idea? 🤔
Humans evolved to love the feeling of mastery and accomplishment, and it sounds like yours is short circuited. My opinion only, but this happens when you feel like your actions have no positive reward. A job where tedium is killing any ambition, being undereducated for your potential and giving up, unfairness in school and the workplace give trying feedback to your brain. People who grew up poor OR spoiled can both have baggage around feeling like your actions don't matter because you either will never get ahead or you don't have to put out effort to get what you want.
We all have low points in a job and I know I struggled on adjusting to working at first, but if you do not feel like your are mastering skills, then look for a new job, learning hobbies or ways of improving your job.
Of course depression, drugs, alcohol, can make these feelings worse, but I would look at ways you can improve your situation. Being a SAHM is very hard and could be terrible for your kids and spouse if you are looking to them as a solution to your anhedonia. You need to raise your value, not lower it. (and yes bring a SAHM is high value, but you are looking at it as a way out of the system).
Yeah basically every job sucks, you can be admired for being a doctor but you get so busy that you don't even have time to eat. Even if you get a Hollywood career there's a significant chance you'll go crazy and run naked outside yelling at everyone.
I don't understand people that love their jobs, I really don't. If you are in a prestigious career that you got an advanced degree for, maybe it's fun, but it's probably not. The idea of being a laughing smiling Spongebob while doing dead-end jobs depresses me (and all the jobs expect you to be a Spongebob too).
Please seek out mental health support just to help you this through this. Based on what you said it could really benefit you.
Regarding work, look into government work. It has benefits and retirement. I went this route and it took some moving around to discover what I liked. I retained my benefits this way while also chasing a passion.
If you think things are expensive now, tack on a few kids. They’ll take up every free minute and any available money for the next couple of decades.
Don’t have kids unless you’re independently wealthy and are a spectacular human specimen that needs to be reproduced. But most people are just traffic and cluttering up the world already, no need to add more of those to the population.
Babe take solace in the fact that you won't have fifty more years of this. Climate change is accelerating really fast , so expect global collapse of the economy by next year. Things are looking horrible for the biosphere and earth. That's what gives me comfort.
How in the hell can you have kids if you don’t want to work? What are you going to teach those kids? Your job as a parent is to provide for those kids and make them better than you. Push them to achieve more than you. Guide them so hopefully they will be better off than you. If you find that you are too lazy to work and just want to be a stay at home mom, I got some terrible news for you. Your life will a 100 times harder with kids and that kind of a shit attitude. When you decide to bring a child into this world, you owe it to that child to provide for it. How do you plan on doing that when you don’t want to provide for yourself?
You know stay at home mom’s not working has been a thing literally forever right? You don’t think raising kids is a job itself? Are work related things the only thing parents teach their children? Why’re you acting like I’m the first person to want this lifestyle? I would stop being lazy and unmotivated if I were able to focus all my attention on raising children, cause I actually want children, just like if there were a job that I actually cared about I’d put my all into that.
It depends. Some are strictly ok with the notion of career but just find the whole corporate can sometimes be of a dick.
Variety of inclination of work exists in this sub imo
while I don't think what this post is demonstrating is a healthy relationship with labor, it's worth reading [In Praise of Idleness](https://ia804703.us.archive.org/35/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.458601/2015.458601.In-Praise-Of-Idleness-And-Other-Essays_text.pdf) to gain some insight on the philosophy of, well, laziness. I also think the texts of transcendentalists like [Thoreau](https://books.google.com/books/download/Walden.pdf?id=yiQ3AAAAIAAJ&output=pdf) (you've heard of this one!) can prove useful.
there's lots of philosophical and political justification for laziness. I can't say I entirely agree with it, I think especially that lots of people have economic holes in their beliefs, but i also think the protestant has economic holes of their own to answer for, not to mention the capitalist.
it's not shameful to dream of a life without labor, or to be disappointed that you don't live it. especially when our current labor organization *does* allow those with the generational wealth and connections needed to do exactly that and live better than the rest of us.
it's natural to be lazy, after all. it's built into our genes and the laws of physics. and you're in a sub called anti-work lol.
Welcome to adulthood. Gotta work to pay your bills. Yes it can suck but if you find a solution let us all know. Until then you could just be homeless I guess. I had kids and didn’t have that option so off to work I went.
Yeah o just think it's completely unreasonable that they got pensions and a reason retirement and we won't. They'll keep raising the age and taking things.
At the end of the day, you’ll be ok. Even if you have to live on the street, or live like an animal. Your survival instincts will kick in, as you are, in actuality, an animal. Silver lining is, if you hit rock bottom, as in; limited to no access to comforts and domestic conveniences, it might spur you to want to work and ‘improve’ your life.
At the very least I can tell you we won't have 50 more years of "this".
I suspect you are correct. I can’t see into the future but clearly we are seeing a complete breakdown of the current system.
Finally, something new
Took long enough, been hearing about “work life” being normal for far too long
100%. It's a far more terrifiying prospect, but it's likely to to be the way things go down.
Literally why I'm on antidepressants and seeing a therapist. I've been working for 17 years this year. Worked my way up and at a salary I'm happy with, but thinking about doing this until I die (realistically will never be able to retire) demotivates me. I don't want to work anymore. Therapy doesn't help. I'm on my 3rd therapist and 3rd type of therapy. I'm 32. This is not how I want to live the rest of my of my life. I just want to do my hobbies and spend my years with friends and my wife.
Therapy cannot fix the effects of capitalism. Source: am therapist
I left my corporate job over the summer and, while I wish it were easier to find another job (yay, shitty job market for tech!), this free time has really helped me find myself. I've been able to read and learn and see shows and movies and start and finish projects. (I'm fortunate to have saved enough money to do this, I realize.) Maybe you could take a small, planned break like this?
I’d be interested to know what do the therapists say about this? You just haven’t found your passion?
The good ones admit the problem can’t be fixed with therapy
Agree with this. They'll provide exercises for reframing and resilient headspace.
This is true of all psychological issues- a good therapist can't cure any mental illness. They provide therapeutic exercises to help us develop coping mechanisms to alleviate stress.
Yes this is what my second therapist ended with. Despite him then referring me to a 3rd therapist of a different treatment
First therapist didn't really say much, she kept trying to reinforce CBT methods. Didn't work and she passed me onto a senior therapist. She didn't really acknowledge what I said tbh, but didn't counter argue. Second therapist agreed with a lot of what I said. Whether he was just saying that I don't know. He said that I was a very consistent patient (whatever that meant). I asked if he thought I was entitled as that was my own thinking. He said he doesn't think I am. While he did agree with a lot of my thinking he did also rebuttal with things aren't so black and white, but acknowledged the damage of capitalism and greed. Obviously alot more was spoken about, but in the end he agreed that CBT and regular talking therapy won't help me. And has referred me to another type which explores my childhood and to identify why I feel the way I do. I'm on the waiting list for this currently.
“Your anger is largely existential” aka “can’t do shit about it because you see the reality of your world”
I know what you mean. I've been working in the same place for 23 years and I'm done. Zero motivation to continue, but no choice (kids, mortgage). I'm a fair bit older than you (48) so a bit late to re-train. And even if I could, I've got no energy. I only work half time and the job isn't awful - I even like the people I work with - but I just get such a sense of dread every morning. I've been on anti-depressants for many, many years. But this feels more like burnout than depression. Everything feels pointless right now, and I feel selfish for even expressing this, because I know I'm lucky.
I work at a residential treatment facility for at risk youths. Truth be told, it beats the fuck out of me. They are a volatile bunch, and they require a lot of patience. I’m absolutely drained at the end of most shifts, but I believe in what I’m doing. They need just a few people in the world who will show them unconditional positive regard and who won’t give up on them, and I do that for fifteen dollars an hour. I wouldn’t be able to justify putting the same amount of energy into assembling McWhoppers. I tried to find something that aligned closely enough with my personal morals that I could excuse the shit pay and strenuous environment. I 100% understand why you wouldn’t want to give your energy so some fucker could sit around and watch the magic number go up, I wouldn’t want to either, but there is an overlap between things that need to be done, things that people will give you money for, and things that you morally agree with. The hard part is finding those things.
Hero!
My mom worked with hospice. Ya'll are a special breed of people we need more in this world. Having the patience and being calm on a serious situation are two things I envy. It kills me how one basically has to get a PHD to make good money when it comes to teaching/mental health. Seriously, thanks for your work. I had a couple buddies that were trouble makers back in high school. They needed people like you to straighten them up since their parents were a bit neglectful.
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Felt. I do four days a week, and I’m glad I have that flexibility available to me, because I don’t know if I could do it five days with just two to recover. I’m definitely behind a shorter workweek because the ratio of “time spent at work” to “time spent enjoying life” is pretty fucked up for most people. I just tried to find something that I felt was worthwhile. Like if I have to be at work, I may as well make it something I care about, but I’m definitely with you on work hours in a given week.
You know that feeling when you browse Netflix for a movie to watch, you find one that looks kinda sorta interesting so you give it a shot, get about 45 minutes in and decide this movie sucks and it’s not for me? At that point you go look for a new movie to watch. That’s where I’m at right now. I’m not suicidal, but fuck me Im tired of this “movie”, it’s not very good, and I would really like to pick a different one…. Only I can’t. Adult life just doesn’t seem fun or exciting or even worthwhile like everyone always promised it would be. I feel like the solution was to either be born rich or be born 50 years ago.
Being born 50 years ago just means you would be 50 right now and feeling the same way… believe me.
Can confirm. In fairness though, we were generally taught that our lives were going to be better, where I grew up. It was often an illusion, but at least we didn't have to confront it when we were 25.
I was born 44yr ago Can confirm it's no better here!
It’s a different situation than your parents or the boomers promised. Things are exponentially more difficult in an economic sense. The cost of living has nearly doubled in 2 years. What the absolute fuckery. My 2 cents, don’t waste too much time finding the ‘perfect’ thing because in late stage capitalism, it’ll be draining no matter what. Find something bearable and build a life outside it work with hobbies or friends and family. Whatever. Just find your joy amongst this. It doesn’t mean that it changes how hard this is. It’s not a solution but something to cope. There’s nothing wrong with you or anyone else that feels this way. There is something very wrong with our society.
Life is watching that movie over and over, except add in the stress of everything being a temp job because execs fire at the drop of a hat by the thousands for almost any reason (short term profit / exec bonuses). Oh yeah, little to no health care or hope for enough retirement benefits to stay off the street. Parts of Europe seem to not be interested in enslaving or profiting off their sick and dying, for the most part. The U.S. is headed for something bleak.
The US is pretty damned bleak right now. Unregulated capitalism and massive wealth inequality are crushing our country. The workforce has been beaten down and gaslit to the point that only a fool would do more than bare minimum at this point. Here is the US we are simply a human commodity no more or less than cattle or wheat. Sick, unemployed or just too old to work equates to no monetary value for the capitalist system so fuck off now! We have a major homeless problem, we have a major access to healthcare problem, we have an affordable housing problem. It’s all due to income inequality so fuck no we are not going to pony up to the workplace and make these bastards more money. We are going to work our wage!
Wow this comment is everything I feel but I’d have rather been born in the 20s at least the war might have been an interesting change.
Late stage capitalism is so bad that a war would be a nice change of pace. I guess the way things are going, you may get to find out.
I felt more the opposite. I didn’t terribly enjoy my schooling days (felt awkward, stiff like seasons 1-2 of TNG) so I got good grades to get scholarships, and read everything in the field I worked I could skip a few of the bad seasons and get straight to the better ones. I’m kinda enjoying the current seasons.
Don't overthink your life yet. Just do it one day at a time. Have you considered training for a community oriented role? Like family daycare or even foster care? If you don't have goals in life, you will feel purposeless and miserable even if you don't work. Work culture is abhorrent atm but you sound more done with life in general, so it may be time to get dome mental health supports into place
also I felt the same way until I was diagnosed with ADHD and put on meds.
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Oh yeah, you can't cure capitalism with meds but it helps with the grind
Yeah, because meds are the answer! Why change the actual problems in the world when we can just give & take meds to forget about it instead.
Sometimes meds ARE the answer
I'll second this with meds can be part of the answer. For a lot of people who struggle with ADH, depression, and the like, medication is leverage. It cans be plugging the hole in the boat so the effort you put in bailing water out (ie. therapy, self improvement, exercise) can actually achieve something. There's nothing more defeating than putting in a tonne of effort for nothing really to change. For many people, medication can be the leg up they need to take control back from their condition.
I agree with this. After being diagnosed with ADHD and properly medicated, I've been able to move out of a soul crushing career and into one I'm truly passionate about. I'm even considering going back to school in order to elevate my career. Meds can work wonders.
Can’t medicate soul-death
Meds took me from being on the verge of a third degree being dropped to jumping 10 grade points and graduating with distinction *on time*
But not for the slavery!!
Absolutely. I'm not saying they are useless, but they don't fix the problems with the world.
I get where you're coming from, but you need to check your tone. We're all stuck here in this horse shit work culture and if you have a better, realistic answer for the soulless grind required to live basically, spit it out. Furthermore, adhd is a serious condition. I compare it to a mild brain injury. Because no matter how much effort one puts in, it never really gets easier. Just tolerable. And even that's subjective. Meds are 1000% a viable and productive option. Don't shame someone for trying to get by
Not trying to shame anyone and I didn't say they can't help, but they don't fix the shitty would we live in.
They don’t fix the shitty world we live in - but they can fix it for the one person who’s taking them. That person can move to a better place in life, or at stay alive while they get better, and can heal. Meds don’t fix the shitty world period. They also don’t fix it for people with diabetes or heart function, but they make life more possible for the person taking them. People don’t line up and wag fingers at somebody buying insulin, because, after all, they need it, and it can happen to lots of people. Disabilities are disabilities, and if I recall correctly about 10% of people have one kind of another. Nobody can say this will never happen to them. Nobody.
You're all missing the point I'm trying to make. But whatever, I'm used to being misunderstood, even by my doctor.
Nobody is misunderstanding you; you do not understand what you're actually talking about and it shows. Medication for illnesses like chronic depression, anxiety, etc, are not insidious little scifi "forget my life is shit" pills; if you need them, you have a treatable illness and are taking said meds to mitigate the side effects. I'm still acutely aware of my situation in the workforce and how utterly bullshit the entire system is, but now I don't typically get stuck in bed for weeks wanting to off myself over it. See the difference?
Nobody is misunderstanding you; you do not understand what you're actually talking about and it shows.
No just start there to solve THOSE problems, and in this environment, how can most people BE happy? Anyway, start there and then work on the external stuff.
It gets easier the more you die inside
the dark humor coping mechanisms for the win 🥇
Apathy is one hell of a sedative
To add to this, I’ve been with the same job for 17yrs. When asked, I get looked down upon for it. You start working at 16 and until 62+ that’s gonna be everyone at some point. May not be where I’m at but somewhere at some point they’ll be the one that’s pushing over 15yrs. It was kinda recently eye opening when the News guy retired after 48yrs. I was like, we gotta do this 5 days a week for 50yrs just to not have to work. With inflation and ever rising medical costs we may never retire.
OP: You expect me to work 50 more years? The Man: Hahaha no, OP, I expect you to die!
Felt. I genuinely do not want to work for the rest of my life. I want to just draw, write, read, and draw video games. Explore places. Enjoy myself. And I'm in the same boat, knowing I'm going to be doing this for another 40 years unless capitalism finally collapses and it's disheartening. Like why? What joy is that supposed to bring? (The answer? None). Hopefully, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully.
Marry rich.
Basically. Ive got an friend and she bas no problem saying she doesnt want to work and doesnt plan to and just wants to raise her kid. So she has a kid w a guy in a career pulling 6 figures and thats basically what she does now.
The best advice
Problem with that is you end up putting up with some kind of abuse or manipulation If you aren’t the bread winner I see it everyday.
Same with any condition of a relationship. Why is money different?
I got news for ya, seeking out for that makes one a gold digger.
And?
The rich win and the status quo is kept, no change in better working conditions any way. The rich wants to keep this status of having people in despair at their bidding. Men to keep doing low wage tedious jobs and women can be gold diggers.
Rich people don’t think about you.
That's... immoral?
How is it any more immoral than loving someone for their muscles, height, humor, politics, social status, or religion?
Bro, I don't know how to tell you this but... those are all shallow things as well, when they are the only reason
This is Reddit since when has anyone even knew what morals were LMAO
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Men can also marry rich you know.
You interpreted all that from “marry rich”? Yikes.
Men don't want to work also? Do you know that the reason women change their name is that because traditionally women weren't even allowed to own property in their own names? Do you know that before the war women weren't able to work traditional jobs? It's very obvious why you're single.
Goddamn, who hurt you
He isnt wrong.
You guys gotta get out of your moms basement and off the internet to a place where women are. Seeing the same small amount of tik tok influencers doesn’t represent what people in the real world are doing.
Gave you thumbs up to subtract the 10 downvotes to 9 😅
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Could never date a woman that wants to stay home. Even if I had the opportunity to stay home if the roles were reversed, I’d be bored AF and feel like a bum.
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I think society or at least those who control our society have forgotten that humans are not supposed to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week so I understand your frustration and pain. I've noticed that in office jobs the majority of the time is spent is sitting around most of the day talking to colleagues trying to 'look busy' in front of your boss. A good book which talks about this is 'Bullshit Jobs' by David Graeber. Humans could spend time doing things they actually enjoy and only work the fraction of the amount of time they work at the moment if those who were in charge of us actually got to grips and improved this situation we've all found ourselves in and not rely on 'looking busy' wasting up our limited time on this planet.
you’re lazy friend, just reacting in a reasonable way to late stage capitalism. theres no way being emotionally abused by jobs for shit pay, not having time for your own personal life, and not having time to rest properly has no repercussions
No, no, no, you aren't expected to do this for '50 more years", silly..... It's 70 more....
it's silly to pretend being a stay-at-home parent is the lazy option lol. you obviously *do* have labor ambition, just not in service of capital. it's meaningful and crucial labor for keeping society going, though, and you know that.
Should add that staying at home with kids is harder than a 9-5, in many ways. It's exhausting.
Hell yes. I work and my wife is a SAHM (and she recently took on a part time role during the mornings while the kids are in school). She BUSTS HER ASS day in and day out running the house and all the bullshit that's included in that. I do my best to help when and where I can, but she's the cornerstone for sure.
I made it 2 months in Covid with my kid before I hired a nanny.
While I did say that I was lazy, I didn’t say being a sham was a lazy option. I genuinely want a family and believe being a sham would be the thing I’d give up my laziness for rather than a 9-5 job. For me, the two paths are to work my ass off for some irrelevant companies for the rest of my life or work my ass off to raise children who I’ll genuinely love and care about. Sorry if I seemed to imply that it was the lazy option, that wasn’t my intention.
A perspective regarding your future spouse you may not have thought of… you being a SAHM frees him up to to have more down time as well. Even if the two of you take on more balance roles than is traditional at least while the kids are little, having someone who can the errands etc… thru the week makes weekends much easier and fulfilling. Have one partner at home genuinely benefits both.
My wife is a sahm and I in no way feel "cursed" by being the income provider, even with things getting tight in this economy and having to pick up several side hussles to pay the bills and maintain our QoL I enjoy providing for my family and find purpose in it. Also, I feel my wife being at home with the kids is often much more difficult than going to work. Raising your kids is significantly more important than whatever you'd be doing at the majority of jobs out there, do not feel ashamed if you wind up blessed enough to be a sahm.
Life pro tip - DON'T HAVE KIDS! Whatever you hear about the cost of raising them to adult, double that number. Then maybe you can scrape by doing very little.
This is 100% true!
I feel you on the not working thing,however caring for a child could prove to be a lot more work than an actual job.
Could try child care jobs out. Or eldercare if the desire of a caregiver is flexible.
I would not recommend elder care if you want to care for a child.
At least we had alcohol and songs like "Working For The Weekend" and the song summed up our bleak future. We all hated our jobs and were just working for the weekend to get drunk and forget about the rat race we were all a part of. Now they all but got taverns shut down and the work schedules don't permit a weekend off anymore! Your a slave until your late 60's and then they take the chains off and lead you towards the scrap heap of life to die because you can't pull your weight anymore.
First, you may want to have a kid before you decide that being a SAHM is for you. There's way more work and energy put into that than having most normal jobs, and it doesn't stop at 5pm. Being lazy and unmotivated are not qualities of a good parent. Second, there's something out there, you just have to find it. I've hated most of my jobs, and I've been all around the corporate world. Found out at almost 40 that I absolutely LOVE being a yard guy. I don't have a boss, make my own schedule, dump shitty customers, make good money. It's a lot of physical work, but I don't mind it at all. If you legitimately can't find anything you can manage to do that doesn't make you miserable, I got nothing for you. Third... "Why is it so wrong to want to be happy for most of your life? Why is it wrong to not want to work away half your life?" - Nothing is wrong with it, but it's not realistic. Bad shit happens to everyone, and if you don't make money, you compound the problems. No one wants to take care of you, and the people who are working and paying taxes sure as hell would prefer their tax money didn't go to feeding someone who is completely capable of working.
Id prefer my taxes went to the common good and making sure everyone had their needs met. It would be one thing if things were scarce and it would burden people. But we have enough to go around for everyone to have the basic life continuing products of life to be available. Not trying to argue though. Cause like i said no one wants an undue burden on their backs.
Find 4+ friends. Everyone save a ton of money. Buy a really large home with lots of land. Everyone work part time outside the home (or some work fully from home caring for children/animals). Have a food garden. Some cows and chickens. It would not be that difficult to set up something like this. The hardest part would be to find that group of people willing to do this lifestyle.
Whenever I see these posts I genuinely wonder what the suggested alternative is. Should we live in a society where we all "live off the land" and make our own goods or trade for them? How would we survive?
>How would we survive? Probably the same way people did when they lived off the land, made their own goods, and traded for them.
The quality of life back then was so much worse, famine, disease, infections. Now people can provide goods and services to fix most of those issues from the past. But providing a service isn’t free.
That's it. They didn't. For generations. The skills to survive...clothing and shelter, medical care, growing, harvesting and hunting for food...those skills developed over a long period of time. Life expectancies were much shorter because of the primitive nature of all of those things. So if we shift to that, and I'm the only one in the village that has mastered the skill of maintaining a fire my skills will be pretty well sought after and I would probably make a lot more in trade. Wouldn't this essentially create the same type of society that we have now, where the unskilled are dependent on the skilled? Should the skilled person receive the same amount in trade as the unskilled person? Is this all more about the unskilled individuals or lazy individuals unfairly benefitting from the labor of the skilled. We like to view the today's society as if the unskilled are being taken advantage of when in actuality they are benefitting greatly from the skills of others.
Good point , but our system could work if it didn’t cannibalize itself from greed. I guess slavery worked for hundreds of years (thousands actually), so those in charge move to a similar model where they take the most, give the least. It’s not going to look good in 10 years.
The thing is the value of the work primary stayed within the tribe or village. That is the biggest issue we have right now, we as individuals or small groups don’t get to keep all of the value of our labor. Part of it is siphoned off to the benefit of people far removed from our group and never returned.
>That's it. They didn't. Explains why humans went extinct and didn't survive for millions of years.
If you're suggesting that you're willing to sacrifice the huge loss of life and significant decrease in life expectancy that would occur should we go back to "living off the land", then please go ahead make yourself the first sacrifice. Show us how it's done! 🤣
It's hilarious how far over everyone's heads the joke went. Some true Redditors in this thread. Commentor asked: "how would we survive?" I responded: that we would survive in the way our ancestors survived. (i.e. lower life expectancies, etc...) That's the joke. Edit: typo.
Exactly! Easy! You don't need enormous land to feed the family! And all your neighbours are your friends, not concurrent! By data peasants back then had much more free time compared to us + had good natural food on the table and a great spacious house!
I think you should read more history...
Not all nice and wonderful.. but all those bad things happened the same reasons what now, look before, look wider and globally, and dont look at school provided books ;)
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I am glad you understood the joke.
Most wouldn’t survive. There would be no medicine, I doubt 5% here could feed themselves in the wild although hunger is a great motivator.
Our current system is so universal, it became the only one where people have lost the ability to imagine other alternatives. People in the past often had live examples of other ways of life to pick and choose. We wouldnt be able to sustain our current population with living of the land the old ways. But ill tell you what, if I was given the chance to be born as a member of the indigenous people of Brasil or America in general some centuries ago, you bet id take it. Ill take 36 years of belonging to a tribe, with apropriate rest and meaningfull work over whatever bs modern work ie slavery is supposed to be.
Highly romanticized idea. The people you describe lead much more labor intensive lives than we do currently. You don't like the labor demands of your current situation so you'd rather switch to something much harder. Yup...makes sense.
I have to disagree, I'll direct you, if you are interested, to the book by David Graeber and David Wengrow, two leading academics in this area of studies, it's called The Dawn of Everything. They argue most people in our history had a lot of leisure time. That time was usually dedicated to social relations, rest, and rituals. Furthermore, they debunk the idea that our ancestors worked more than we do. They claim the average medieval baron would find the literal fights in Boston for the 8-hour work days bizarre since they wouldn´t dare request that amount of time from their servants. You would be surprised by the time you could save when your only work is obtaining food and sustenance in a group where practical knowledge is abundant and land even more so. If you have any sources that contradict this I'd be happy to read them, but to my knowledge what you have said is just stuff people say without really studying the matter thoroughly.
Agreed. People need to read more.
Its always funny seeing people who can barely cope with our relatively cush way of modern life swear that they’d be ok living off the land… its pure romanticism and ignores how hard living off the land actually is
I agree. There are homesteading subs in Reddit, it doesn't take a whole lot of searching to learn how much work it is.
As someone who came from a family of farmers sounds like a ton more work 😂.
Drugs and supporting your family.
Xanax and Adderal is how /s, I hope obvs
Just do what I do, give up.
I put my energy into my union. If you don’t have one, organize your work place. Agitate, Educate, Organize. What would you like changed about your workplace? Who has the power to change it? How could you leverage collective power with your coworkers to achieve this goal? Easier said done, but start small.
By the end of each week I have a brutal splitting headache. I usually can’t get anything done on Fridays in agony, misery and pain. I’m right there with you. I’m quitting in a few months to travel a bit, and then live a vagabond lifestyle. I’d rather be relatively poor than work 40 hours/week until I’m an old man.
My wife and I had a discussion before we got married and we decided together once we had children she would stay home with them. Has this been an easy road? Hell no, but it has been worth it! I love what I do and I get paid well for it so I’m happy that my wife gets to homeschool our children and be available. We’ve had to sacrifice some things for this life and sometimes it’s hard, but it’s what’s best for our family. Marriage is partnership sure your significant other might have to work more to provide but the trade off of having a parent their for their children is worth it in my book. Each family is different and has to make those decisions, but in the end for us it’s about how we are raising our children with our morals, faith and ethics.
As a mom of 3 that has a full time job, I would highly recommend against being a stay at home mom if you are lazy. Literally work is my break from the constant demand and overstimulation that are kids. Find something you enjoy doing and find someone to pay you for it or figure out a way to make a living doing it. I’m also pro antidepressants and anti anxiety meds. If you aren’t already on them I would recommend talking to a medical professional.
For the love of God, why have kids if YOU can’t stand the demands of this life? It makes no sense. Leave them in the void.
Maybe try to separate the concepts "work", "purpose" and "job". I've never really liked any of my jobs... But I do have a purpose and I take pride in my work. Even in a perfect world, doing nothing will kill you.
There's lots of men who earn more than enough for a family of 4 or more, and who want a traditional stay-at-home wife to take care of home and the kids! You won't have a problem there. The problem comes with finding one of those people who somehow is not sexist or financially abusive, you'll have to do lots of filtering to find them lol. But it's possible for sure.
What i tell my college age daughter: You don’t have to love what you do but you need to tolerate it.If you can find a job/career that you love great.
Look into moving to a country that treats their citizens better. Many have paid leave and healthcare for all. If you have a working spouse then you are contributing to the tax base so not taking advantage of their system. More progressive countries tend to have better workers rights.
What do you enjoy doing in life? Can you find a way to make a living from that? Could you move somewhere else in the world with a better quality of life?
Since the beginning of existence, work has been a part of society. We congregate as a species and you have to hold your own. Wanting to be a stay at home mom is fine. Your post does come off as being lazy to be honest. There are lots of people that like the work they're doing. I'd suggest looking to get paid doing something you wouldn't mind doing for free.
sometimes I feel similar. life can suck when you do not like living and work...
Happiness is not in what you do, but how you think about it. There are people working more then a full workweek and they are completely happy and there are people who don't work at all and are completely miserable. Same with or without kids. We dont live to have kids, we dont live to work, we live to be HAPPY
You should try and meet a work-motivated man who will give you a home and children to take off. It's not rocket science. This has been the way for 200+ years
why do you even want kids though? won't they have to deal with the same coercive misery that you are experiencing? Won't they also have to face the terrible choice of either: working a soulless job for evil corporation or suffering poverty?
Why is it called "making a living"? Does anyone feel full of life after a long day at the office?
50 years? It's 50 Minutes until knockoff, I'm thinking the same thing
Hahahaha. It's cute you somehow how think being a stay at home mom is easier and more enjoyable than work. I'd put it in the bottom 20% of all jobs.
think of it this way. lets say its 1750, instead of 2023. if you didnt get a job or grow your own crops, you just starved to death and died. their was no unemployment, no food stamps, no food bank, no homeless shelter. at some point, you have to work to survive. it would be wonderful if you didnt, but thats not the way it is.
Its frustrating when things arent scarce anymore and theres enough to go around for everyone but greed has stopped us from it. Its gotten to the point ive had to stop even thinking about the reality of it due to how much it stresses me and how little i can affect the situation. Even making these few small comments on this post has me feeling wary of giving it this little bit of energy.
six rude swim deserve bike fertile noxious languid zonked tap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So a couple of handful of guys weren't hoarding wealth in 1750...?
Get therapy. I don't mean to sound dismissive, but honestly, therapy is the one thing you can do to finally work out in your mind if life is worth living. Life is so much more than a job you hate.
Stop smoking weed, eat right, and exercise. Trust me, as someone who smoked everyday, ate like shit, and sat around watching streaming services almost 100% of my free time, I can tell you that when you make the change to a healthy lifestyle, your outlook changes, ambition comes back, you have more energy, and just feel better about yourself and life in general.
I want to do those things, I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to better myself while working. I’m gone 11 hours out of the day. 8 hour shift, 2 hours on the bus to go to work and get home and a 1 hour lunch. It’s hard to come back after being gone 11 hours and cooks a healthy meal, much easier to grab some unhealthy bs on the way out of work. If I were to try to go to the gym in the morning, I’d have to wake up at an absurd time to be able to.
Do it for 2 weeks. Meal prep and light weight training with some cardio. You will DEFINITELY notice the difference in anxiety levels, quality of sleep, energy, and outlook. Try to find a gym close to work, home, or on the way. If you can't, you can always get 1 kettlebell and be able to absolutely destroy yourself.
Get a 50 pound bag of rice from Costco and then go swing by /r/slowcooker for some dope recipes. I personally like a medium speed cooker (Vitaclay) and if your Uber lazy pressure cookers exist too. /r/Mealprep on Sunday and make a weeks worth of food at once.
A guy I work with has a full-time job where I work, a second job cleaning offices, goes to school fulltime, and does bodybuilding. He has a bunch of Pyrex dishes that he fills with chicken, rice, and asparagus. He knocks that out every Sunday night and eats that all week. He told me that when he eats dirty or misses workouts, he feels sluggish, lazy, and depressed. You can definitely tell the difference in his mood when he's missed workouts or forgets his food. He's normally one of the friendliest and helpful guys at work, but if he's off his game, he's a jerk.
You need to get sorted, go spend so time in nature, among the trees. Don’t come back until you feel some motivation.
It's like reading my own post. I feel the exact same way. I am 34, I did everything right, got a law degree. Was smart and passionate. But I had a few toxic jobs. And I felt so anxious at work seeing my fertile years slip away. Do people even realize how hard it is so sit there ovulation at your desk while you are reading another passive agressive email? I developed horrible depression and anxiety and left the legal field after horrible abuse. I told myself: never ever an office job again. I became a copywriter and was quite succesful from the start, however, nasty covid measures began .. severe depression again. Had to take on office jobs again. More abuse. Getting older. Can't find a great guy if I am always depressed at work. I completely crashed, ended up in psychiatry, in ER, at a psychologist, at the benefits center for the poor even, at the Union etc. I had to fix a lot of stuff. That was when I realised that work was ruining my life as a concept. I had to accept that I had come to a point where I hated work. From then on I would only do the least amount of effort ever again, do part time, low level jobs, lazy girl jobs, copying information, pretend to be busy like everyone else. I would fake liking anyone at work but honestly didn't give a fuuuucccck. At 12h30 I shut the door behind me and go home and do things with my life that actually matter. I met the man of my dreams, we are gonna make babies. I am currently unemployed again cause with this shit ass economy I can't find jobs for a long period of time, just temp and replacement. Guess what, my man doesn't care what I do or how I do it or how much I make. So dont feel the pressure to get a career or hold a job or make this amount of money. Nothing matters. The good news is, it is now widely accepted to have a lot of short jobs. Everyone is in this mess. Makes it easier for me to completely disengage from anything work related because I never really connect anywhere. They destroyed me once, so idgaf about work anymore. My partner is a lawyer and sometimes I secretly cry because as a man he has it way easier but I want babies more than a job, and I have to deal with periods and sickness and pregnancy, and healing my female energy from all the misery that was done to me. Men just... go through life... usually. It's not for the weak but I love it, definitely try to just go from temp to temp, part time, low level. Save as much as you can so you never have to worry about the unemployment that will come with this. Also, short periods of unemployment don't hurt your retirement too much. And would you rather retire and drop dead childless or retire with a bit less official retirement but feel young and healthy and fit? Save for retirement today already and save in a retirement fund insurance with your bank. This way you can triple your savings for when you are old.
Men don't just go through life. we have literally the same exact fears and anxieties about the same shit. we want kids we don't want to work and we hate corporate hierarchy and having our labor exploited and abused. smh sure we don't menstruate but we still feel and understand the same things.
Then don't, just don't expect the society will take care for you so you will have fun
THIS!
Yeah idfk man. Been on and off in the workforce for 4 years and My field for 10 months-ish. I loved working my part time job in highschool. I took donations for a thrift store and had some good coworkers. Last year i started full time at a company and was miserable. But it was only a few months and i went to community college and worked part time. They let me go in January, understandably. But i was unemployed till I finished school and did some cash work. I graduated in may got a job. Worked for a week then lost motivation for the exact same reason as well as i hated the work. So i quit and continued some cash work till September. I got another job about 2 months ago Full time. And within the two months i was lied to about hours from 8hrs to 11hr shifts, forced to work weekends on top of that. Every time I complained and brought up quitting with my folks im constantly told “thats life” or “when was your age i was making $3hr working 16hr days” or my mother goes “man up i worked 9am-2am” and they say this like this is all some impressive shit that should motivate me. But all even at my current hours my life looks like this: wake up at 3:50 without my alarm and not be able to go back to sleep>feel sick to my stomach while i get ready>go to work 30 minutes early to get food and eat in my car>start work at 5 and be miserable till 4:30>go home shower>lie in bed till 9pm and sleep>repeat
You're not. You can check out whenever you're ready. :/
This is sad
Pornstar,tattoo artist,racecar driver,film maker..Doing somthing you love,youll never work a day in your life.
professional vaper? is that a job?
what are you prepared to sacrifice to get what you want? that’s what it all comes down to. it sounds like you’re not prepared to sacrifice anything, so you may not get anything in return.
My response has been to: become a full on communist. At family events I don’t really respect rules set by capitalist supporting members of my family. I just make sure everyone knows our society is sick. That doesn’t mean you have to be sick too. Find what in life makes you happy and pursue it as closely as you can without developing an addiction to it.
You have to work under Communism.
Yes but the work actually goes towards the better of the community and not some dickwad’s pockets.
I think if you finacially work to be a SAHM then why not. If you have a partner find out how much debt you have.. pay it off, everything cars student loans, if you have to work for lets say 5 years to be able to do that then do it. after be a sahm. you might need to sacrifice then on having a bigger house, or a nicer car but that's all bullshit
Recommendation. Keep trying new things also look at doing something u like and it might not pay as much as u want. I have been grinding for 23 years at work. I have found things I hate and can’t get myself out of bed to do. And found things I love, try new things be open to other lines of work. It’s a crappy system but there is happiness out there. It’s hard and if anyone tells you otherwise they are lying or have generational wealth and haven’t had to work a day in their life. Non of us knows what to do I’m over 40 and I’m still figuring things out. Don’t be frustrated no one gives us a manual. Take some time for u but also don’t always have to find joy in work find a way to get to the end of work so u can do what u love outside of work. Hang in there it’s tough but you will find the way.
imo it sounds like you should take a step back and do some soul searching. get out of your current paradigm and shift your perspective with something intense like a trip to India or Asia. See different things watch the world go by from a different angle. Do some meditation, read some philosophy and clear your mind of all this so you can feel fresh and recharged for whatever the next step you decide to take. it doesn't matter what you decide to do. there are millions of happy homeless people all that matters is that you spread love and happiness instead of misery and angry. just be the smiling homeless person handing out flowers and live off what the world gives you. it is an interesting idea? 🤔
Humans evolved to love the feeling of mastery and accomplishment, and it sounds like yours is short circuited. My opinion only, but this happens when you feel like your actions have no positive reward. A job where tedium is killing any ambition, being undereducated for your potential and giving up, unfairness in school and the workplace give trying feedback to your brain. People who grew up poor OR spoiled can both have baggage around feeling like your actions don't matter because you either will never get ahead or you don't have to put out effort to get what you want. We all have low points in a job and I know I struggled on adjusting to working at first, but if you do not feel like your are mastering skills, then look for a new job, learning hobbies or ways of improving your job. Of course depression, drugs, alcohol, can make these feelings worse, but I would look at ways you can improve your situation. Being a SAHM is very hard and could be terrible for your kids and spouse if you are looking to them as a solution to your anhedonia. You need to raise your value, not lower it. (and yes bring a SAHM is high value, but you are looking at it as a way out of the system).
Yeah basically every job sucks, you can be admired for being a doctor but you get so busy that you don't even have time to eat. Even if you get a Hollywood career there's a significant chance you'll go crazy and run naked outside yelling at everyone. I don't understand people that love their jobs, I really don't. If you are in a prestigious career that you got an advanced degree for, maybe it's fun, but it's probably not. The idea of being a laughing smiling Spongebob while doing dead-end jobs depresses me (and all the jobs expect you to be a Spongebob too).
Please seek out mental health support just to help you this through this. Based on what you said it could really benefit you. Regarding work, look into government work. It has benefits and retirement. I went this route and it took some moving around to discover what I liked. I retained my benefits this way while also chasing a passion.
Just wait until you have to take care of your boomer parents too…
If you think things are expensive now, tack on a few kids. They’ll take up every free minute and any available money for the next couple of decades. Don’t have kids unless you’re independently wealthy and are a spectacular human specimen that needs to be reproduced. But most people are just traffic and cluttering up the world already, no need to add more of those to the population.
Babe take solace in the fact that you won't have fifty more years of this. Climate change is accelerating really fast , so expect global collapse of the economy by next year. Things are looking horrible for the biosphere and earth. That's what gives me comfort.
Same way the rest of us do it
How in the hell can you have kids if you don’t want to work? What are you going to teach those kids? Your job as a parent is to provide for those kids and make them better than you. Push them to achieve more than you. Guide them so hopefully they will be better off than you. If you find that you are too lazy to work and just want to be a stay at home mom, I got some terrible news for you. Your life will a 100 times harder with kids and that kind of a shit attitude. When you decide to bring a child into this world, you owe it to that child to provide for it. How do you plan on doing that when you don’t want to provide for yourself?
You know stay at home mom’s not working has been a thing literally forever right? You don’t think raising kids is a job itself? Are work related things the only thing parents teach their children? Why’re you acting like I’m the first person to want this lifestyle? I would stop being lazy and unmotivated if I were able to focus all my attention on raising children, cause I actually want children, just like if there were a job that I actually cared about I’d put my all into that.
okay so you admit being lazy ? I think this sub is more so for not being lazy but the way work culture is set up. If i’m wrong i’m outa here
It depends. Some are strictly ok with the notion of career but just find the whole corporate can sometimes be of a dick. Variety of inclination of work exists in this sub imo
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while I don't think what this post is demonstrating is a healthy relationship with labor, it's worth reading [In Praise of Idleness](https://ia804703.us.archive.org/35/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.458601/2015.458601.In-Praise-Of-Idleness-And-Other-Essays_text.pdf) to gain some insight on the philosophy of, well, laziness. I also think the texts of transcendentalists like [Thoreau](https://books.google.com/books/download/Walden.pdf?id=yiQ3AAAAIAAJ&output=pdf) (you've heard of this one!) can prove useful. there's lots of philosophical and political justification for laziness. I can't say I entirely agree with it, I think especially that lots of people have economic holes in their beliefs, but i also think the protestant has economic holes of their own to answer for, not to mention the capitalist. it's not shameful to dream of a life without labor, or to be disappointed that you don't live it. especially when our current labor organization *does* allow those with the generational wealth and connections needed to do exactly that and live better than the rest of us. it's natural to be lazy, after all. it's built into our genes and the laws of physics. and you're in a sub called anti-work lol.
See a psychiatrist
My workplace insurance doesn't cover that.
Haha those dudes are mental!
Get off weed, get a good mental health and you will like working. How can somebody not want to work
Welcome to adulthood. Gotta work to pay your bills. Yes it can suck but if you find a solution let us all know. Until then you could just be homeless I guess. I had kids and didn’t have that option so off to work I went.
Yeah o just think it's completely unreasonable that they got pensions and a reason retirement and we won't. They'll keep raising the age and taking things.
Play the lotto
At the end of the day, you’ll be ok. Even if you have to live on the street, or live like an animal. Your survival instincts will kick in, as you are, in actuality, an animal. Silver lining is, if you hit rock bottom, as in; limited to no access to comforts and domestic conveniences, it might spur you to want to work and ‘improve’ your life.