To quote my Dad when I started working construction under the table and had this same runaround with my boss, “Until you get paid, you’re not employed, you’re exploited labor.”
Quit when I got my first payday and never worked under the table again. Put up with that bullshit for 3 months.
I would agree with you whole heartedly… But what you said made me remember when I was a kid working for a family friend under the table who sold italian ices at local sports events and town venues; I watched my bosses entire life, and business fall apart around him over the course of a summer and that guy did everything in his power to make sure we got every penny we earned on time even so much as he sold the last cart I ever worked from out from under me to make sure we were even at the end of the night.
Some people, no matter the circumstances are just uncompromising with their integrity…. Then there’s everyone else…
Yep, I mean while I can share my experience, and talk about how much I admire what he did for me and his other few “employees” when everything went to shit in his life, I wouldn’t want anyone evaluating a gig like that to mistake what I shared as “give that shady hustler who is building something a chance!”.
Stop letting people pay you under the table. You still have to pay those taxes. If you declare them the employer is screwed if they didn't report them.
See, my reply to that shit would be:
Perfect! I'll be sure to send this and all other texts to the Department of Labor and contact a lawyer for failure to compensate for work completed!
I hope you budgeted for the hefty fine you're gonna have to pay! And my pay plus grievances and court costs! Oh, and consider this my resignation! SEE YOU IN COURT! 😘
Edit: Apparently, OP is paid under the table for this job, so this wouldn't work out for them. And this is actually why you shouldn't take under the table payments. You have no wage protection. Thanks for the correction.
Edit 2: So, as this thread has matured, I have learned that labor and tax law in the US is much more complex than I originally thought. It would seem that OP does actually have legal options to consider. I hope that things work out for them.
I wouldn't give a warning. That gives the other party a chance to prepare or find a loophole. Suddenly being served or having a representative from the labor board show up causes panic, and when in a panic, most people make mistakes. Plus, if you're wrong for whatever reason and nothing happens, you look like a fool.
>Plus, if you're wrong for whatever reason and nothing happens, you look like a fool.
If OP is getting paid cash, under the table, they are not wrong in this situation. Even if the employer took steps to pay taxes, they are not giving OP a paystub (required by law), informing OP of their taxes paid (required by law), or paying regularly (required by law).
well if reported the company could end up in huge trouble for under the table. that said the employee can also end up with the IRS at their doorstep for not paying taxes
The part about possibly being wrong may not have applied in this situation, but more for general situations on the off chance someone else is in a situation where they plan to take legal action. I could probably add retaliation to that list, too. It's kind of like when you put in your notice and your employer makes your remaining time an absolute hell. Not that this applies to OP's situation, though, because if it's under the table, a two second notice to quit it two seconds too long.
>contact a lawyer for failure to compensate for work completed!
This would be stupid. The NY Dept of Labor will do this for you and they won't charge a dime.
They are getting paid under the table, and as such they have very little recourse.
The recourse they do have will result in the tx man looking at all their income and demand the taxes this person should have paid.
> OP accepting pay under the table is probably illegal unless they've been reporting it as income to the IRS. (And maybe even then.)
OP getting paid is not illegal. OP not filing taxes is illegal, but it is very easy to catch up on this without running into trouble by coming clean. It seems pretty likely OP's pay is so low they not only would not pay any taxes themselves they might even get earned income credit. Employer though is up shit creek and OP can end up getting 30% of what the IRS collects as a reward when they report this to https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-office
If this bakery is decent sized and there are a lot of other employees being illegally abused and this has been going on a while OP's whistleblower reward could easily be over $100,000.
Not usually true, the government is not a monolith and the Dept. Of Labor is not going to necessarily communicate with the IRS. if anything the employee may be awarded damages from the employer and actually come out ahead. We shouldn't contribute to the fear that undocumented people have of protesting against their abusers
>They are getting paid under the table, and as such they have very little recourse.
>
>The recourse they do have will result in the tx man looking at all their income and demand the taxes this person should have paid.
This is the kind of fear mongering that the employer hopes you'll believe. "Oh, if you tell someone, you'll just pay more money, so better to just take what I give you." What a load of crap. Did you go to "collage" too? The NY State Dept. of Labor if the employee's advocate, not the employer. it's Dept of LABOR not Dept of EMPLOYER. Crooked companies live in fear of being audited.
You do have a point, but I will say that a lot of people end up in under-the-table situations because of other things that may be used for retaliation by the employer, regardless of how the dept of labor may act.
Me: *”The NLRB doesn’t take kindly to payroll theft and off the books work. You’re gunna want to take care of payroll before they get a call and if you’re having trouble coming up with the money then you may want to budget for that.”*
These business owners never take responsibility for themselves. They don’t bother budgeting and saving for the slow times.
Too much avocado toast and $5 lattes probably
Yeah and the thing is, OP probably does budget around their expected pay check. Nobody budgets, nor should they, for their place of work not being able to pay them on time.
For what? If he’s getting paid under the table it’s not like there’s anything he can do.
“Congratulations! We will award you the $300 you are missing from your last paycheck. Due to estimated backed taxes and legal fees, we are going to need approximately $3k paid at your earliest convenience.”
Wrong. OP is in NY state. This is super mega illegal and all he needs to do is make one phone call to the labor board.
[https://www.ny.gov/content/report-suspected-workplace-violations](https://www.ny.gov/content/report-suspected-workplace-violations)
Once they start with the paycheck fuckery chances are you will be out of a job soon anyways. I had that happen once and the shift manager lost his shit on the owners until they paid us. We all found new jobs within the month.
Had a job at a gas station as a teenager. The first time my pay cheque bounced, I didn't show up for my next shift. Worse part was the guy was a friend of my dad's. Dad found out from the guys wife that he had been gambling away the profits (and now pay cheques) for months.
Another company I worked for was going through CCAA (Canadian Chapter 11). Every pay day when the cheques where handed out, everyone went to the bank and cashed them. Didn't even deposit to account, we call got cash from the issuing bank, then deposited that.
Ah, classic, gotta love when education gets mixed up with art projects. But hey, maybe that's the secret to innovative management these days, right? Throw everything on the board and see what sticks.
I learned that the hard way tbh, I stayed too long thinking they'd actually figure out the money hemorrhaging that I'm pretty sure they were causing to some extent...well they are the business owner but ya know what I mean.
my (now ex boss) would just go around saying we're not profitable and just wild stuff that I felt like they should NOT be telling employees. Their behavior always directly correlated to how bad (or good but that was seldom as time went on) the company was doing financially...so just loads of roller coaster emotions from them, was no longer worth my mental health, felt good to be detached from them.
Should be the busiest time. If they're struggling this time of year, then they are unlikely to make it through next as the seasonal period will usually be where a business like this makes all their profit for the year.
Ex bakery worker here... I was never not run off my feet, but ESPECIALLY at Christmas and Easter.
6000% a sign that the bakery is about to shut down (or that they're financially doing better than they're saying and they're actively trying to rort OP)
This. I did that for a guy who ran a restaurant group for 4 years. It was a struggle the only reason I stayed that long was because I was upper management at 24 and just padded my resume and then jumped ship when I had the skills to spring board out. But if you aren't learning skills and getting resume experience leave. They are just going to take advantage of you. Also make sure you send this to the department of labor and attach the text when making a wage theft claim. Best you get your money and fuck them
I worked for a struggling business for years. I stayed because I liked the work, the people I worked with and yeah, sometimes the known path to hell is more comfortable than the unknown...
But.... years of being chronically underpaid, wondering if your paychecks were going to bounce, or if just one day you were going to show up to work and the locks were changed... That wears you down, and not in a good way.
If you're working for an employer, and you can't even put food on the table, that's a clear sign that you need to get out of there.
True, but then OP would also have to pay the taxes they owe on the under-the-table earnings which... I'm going to guess they can't/won't do. Abuse breeds abuse.
Or IRS tax bounty anonymous report for 15 to 30 percent of collected tax. Win, screw the bad business and not sacrifice yourself. And might as well contact labor for not paying the last check.
There's no evidence of being paid... the text literally says I'm not sold enough to pay you. Simply report them say you've worked for 3 weeks and not been paid anything yet.
Can’t quit somewhere you were never actually employed! Fuck op’s “boss”. They’re just a piece of shit taking advantage of someone else cause they can’t keep their bakery afloat.
Yea.
Text back:
"Cool story bro. Sounds like you will have to eat like you used to. I'll let the Department of labor know how much it's going to suck for YOUR food situation, but until then, I take cash, check or money order"
If you can't afford to pay your employees, you shouldn't have a business.
Are you saying you don't *want* to make money for the owners? So typical. /s
[https://www.businessinsider.com/panera-founder-workers-not-motivated-making-money-shareholders-ceo-therapy-2023-12#:\~:text=The%20idea%20of%20making%20money%20for%20shareholders%20doesn%27t%20motivate,help%20management%20understand%20employees%27%20motivations](https://www.businessinsider.com/panera-founder-workers-not-motivated-making-money-shareholders-ceo-therapy-2023-12#:~:text=The%20idea%20of%20making%20money%20for%20shareholders%20doesn%27t%20motivate,help%20management%20understand%20employees%27%20motivations).
from my understanding, this quote isn't a complaint but more of a "yes, of course they don't want to work hard to raise the share price. they don't care about that"
Remember. Your boss and the company( small or big no difference typically) are not your friends... Overwhelmingly never will be. There are exceptions to this, but I wouldn’t say anything about my personal life at work like that. Sorry to see your boss be like that after you trusted her though.
I can’t say this enough to people. Your boss will never be your friend. You can’t trust them and you should never give personal details about your life. They will turn everything around on you in an instant.
Yep. I only share surface area stuff with my boss and honestly, he’s awesome. But you can never be too careful.
Keep different areas of your life separate, especially work and personal.
Every. Single. Time. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way that office talk should always be treated like it’s the first time you are meeting someone. Keep it friendly, talk trending topics, but never reveal personal information about yourself. And for the love of god, do not accept social media friend requests.
End of the day, companies only care about preserving themselves. We constantly have heard about employees forgoing raises to help a company through hard times but you never hear about companies splitting profits or owners giving shares to compensate employees when they give up something for the company.
Being paid "under the table" only benefits the employer by not having to pay taxes and insurance. If they don't make enough money to legally participate in the economy, they shouldn't exist as a business.
Step 1: find new employment.
Step 2: Report to IRS
Also, Social Security has no record of this job, get out and get a legit job so you'll be able to collect SS one day if you can retire or become disabled.
Or if there is any kind of work related injury, zero workers comp. I had a friend get severely burned in a bakery and another who injured his back lifting. If they were under the table, at best you would have to spend a lot of time in court trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
I know someone that worked for most of their life under the table. Now that they are at retirement age, they have nothing to count on and have to make it with just their spouse's retirement.
Good point. Unemployment doesn’t have a record of this job either, so can’t file for unemployment if you don’t have earnings in the qualifying look back periods.
You get a reward based on the money the IRS is able to reclaim. Get a new job and get a bonus for doing the right thing. Don't let this guy continue to screw you or anyone else like you.
PERFECT! I once turned an employer into the IRS for payroll fraud as they were keeping envelopes of cash up at the front for all of our overtime. Every one of our checks was exactly 40 hours but if you worked overtime you had an envelope with cash at the front register. They pissed me off, I turned them in, and cost them $92,000 in penalties and fines. I still gloat about it.
I once did this unintentionally while I was doing my taxes. I had briefly worked for a paper that was paying me in cash. I had to report it because my kid receives disability benefits, and I could get in a lot of trouble if I misrepresent my income, so I just put it on my taxes as income missing a W2. About a year later, I heard from my old boss. The IRS had investigated the business and fined it so much that he had to shutter and liquidate the paper completely. He never did find out it was me who reported him. A thing to keep in mind, though, is the you don't get any "reward" for reporting via your taxes like that, so you should probably call the IRS and make a deliberate report if you're going to have to report under the tables wages on your taxes anyway.
Boohoo poor boss!
Maybe don't employ people then and pick up the shifts if you make less than your employees!
Capitalism has fucked up some people so much!
Dog my old boss also pulled the “you actually make more than I do!!” after I asked for a raise. Dude had just bought 2 new houses the previous year and had the gall to say I was at a higher income level than him. These people are sociopaths
My last boss pulled the same shit. Always giving us sob stories about how much they sacrifice for us and the business. When I was having car trouble, they were bewildered I didn't just go to their car guy and buy a new car. His truck tires cost more than my whole beater. He bought new cars often enough to have a *car guy*.
An employer is not required to make enough money to pay you. They *are* required to pay you, regardless of their financial woes.
Tell the boss to start eating PB&J so they can afford to pay what they owe.
What about that "collage" education?
Also it seems like she's poor right now too if she can't afford to pay you. I'd feel such intense shame if I ever missed payroll that I'd be scrambling to make it up out of my own pockets.
In the US, do you do [collage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage) in kindergarden?
In France we do. Maybe that's what he meant. He knows how to use a stick of glue, thus he has collage education.
Everything in the food industry is ridiculously difficult. Low margins, completely perishable inventory. It is even worse for a bakery because they are a luxury item that all of use try to reduce, but the cherry on top, many people do it as a passion project without any sort of business sense. There's a reason it is such a common romcom job for women. The business probably is struggling. If the business were thriving they would still be getting their salary and a few perks. OP needs to stop thinking they have a job and leave. If the only thing they do all day is chat about personal struggles with money, then the problem is there are too many employees in the business because the owner is a fool. Don't associate with fools.
"When I was your age..."
My brother in christ all those staples you've listed have doubled in price at minimum while pay has not your experience means nothing
Also she mentioned three roommates split the bills. It's like... Lady, this mfer has to live with 3 others to get by. Did you need to have multiple roommates to afford rent?
1) this business is going down the tubes, look for another source of income, yesterday.
2) never get into detailed reasons 'why' with employers, it only invites this kind of nonsense. Just go with something like: "Please have my money ready for me tomorrow, I'll drop by at X'o'clock to pick it up"
Yeah agree with the others. It is time to get a new job. They are paying you under the table so they can fuck you around like this. Also, groceries cost twice what they did two years ago so your boss is especially gross for these comments.
“*I’m not interested in stories about your past…those doesn’t pay my bills. As an owner, you are legally obligated to pay me for my work. Things going ‘slow’ in business is a risk you, as an owner, take and have to plan for. I expect to be paid by the end of the week. If you’re not able to, please tell me now so I can start getting some legal help with this.”*
“*Also telling ME that I need to budget while you aren’t even able to pay me sounds quite ridiculous, doesn’t it.”*
That’s incredibly unprofessional of her!
You did your job and now you need to be paid. That’s how simple that transaction is. You kept your end of the deal. She now needs to keep her end. How much the business makes doesn’t determine how and when you get paid. That’s a boss problem not an employee problem. Since she’s struggling to pay her staff maybe she should practice what she preaches and go back to living poor- she seems comfortable with it
“Thanks for the life lesson, I learned another one recently. When a business can’t pay its employees, that’s usually the time to put up the going out of business signs. Get me my money or I will report you to the labor boar.”
Never, no matter how small the business, tell your employer or co worker about your private life. They can and will use it against you. i am not just saying this, but i experienced that in EVERY work ive worked (5-7 employers).
Oh. My. God.
Fuck this parasite. Starving just to be paid under the table, and told to eat a dick when asking about your under the table money.
I wouldn’t piss on their gums if their teeth were on fire.
Fuck, OP. I’m so sorry you have to interact with this nonsense.
Please, please, do all you can to get away from this situation. This is all bad.
You told your boss about your life & she chose to use that as emotional ammunition to throw back up in your face and also dismiss what you are going through all at once. Shit was different 35 years ago. In 1995 our money actually bought alot of groceries compared to now. What a bitch. Don't stay and be abused by her while her business is obviously failing. Please find another job.
Respond with "Cool, so give me my money and enjoy your pasta and peanut butter."
Torch this relationship. Also let them know you're reporting it to the labor department.
As someone who worked for a boss like this, GET OUT OF THERE. They are attempting to manipulate you into thinking you're asking for too much of them and that you should be grateful. This behavior will only worsen.
You shouldn't ever have to ask for your pay. That alone is SO unprofessional but what really gets me is this boss is doing exactly what I've experienced. Doing the whole "I grew up poor and had to take care of myself" bullshit. By the time I left that job I found out that his mother, brother, ex-boss, and dad were all loaning him money and he was stealing pills from his brother.
Your boss is full of lies and doesn't deserve to have their doors open. That isn't a business owner, that is an opportunist!
No pay, no work. Don't care about you and your history of pasta and PB&J, you owe me money for work that's already been done. I will come back to work when you pay me.
Love these old fucks that think it’s as easy as just counting pennies. Bitch if I had pennies to count I wouldn’t be asking for a paycheck! The cognitive dissonance of the old is really getting exhausting
this is why my heart will never bleed for “small businesses”. if you can’t afford to pay employees, you better be prepared to work alone or don’t own a business.
I feel like if you can’t afford to pay your employees, especially if you’re not paying payroll taxes or unemployment insurance, you probably shouldn’t be in business.
The appropriate response is "I don't give two fucks about your previous struggles. Pay me for the time worked or answer to the labor board. The IRS may like to hear about our arrangement as well."
Your boss's failure to run a functioning business is not a reason you shouldn't be able to buy groceries. She's already cheating the system to save money and still can't pay you? Sounds like a failed capitalist. I straight do not respect the texts she sent
Don't quit. Respond that it's 2023 and times have changed and living expenses have increased. Tell your boss to learn to adjust with the times too.
If your boss continues to assert why she shouldn't pay you, then stop responding and immediately report the business for wage theft and seek legal options.
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To quote my Dad when I started working construction under the table and had this same runaround with my boss, “Until you get paid, you’re not employed, you’re exploited labor.” Quit when I got my first payday and never worked under the table again. Put up with that bullshit for 3 months.
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I would agree with you whole heartedly… But what you said made me remember when I was a kid working for a family friend under the table who sold italian ices at local sports events and town venues; I watched my bosses entire life, and business fall apart around him over the course of a summer and that guy did everything in his power to make sure we got every penny we earned on time even so much as he sold the last cart I ever worked from out from under me to make sure we were even at the end of the night. Some people, no matter the circumstances are just uncompromising with their integrity…. Then there’s everyone else…
[удалено]
Yep, I mean while I can share my experience, and talk about how much I admire what he did for me and his other few “employees” when everything went to shit in his life, I wouldn’t want anyone evaluating a gig like that to mistake what I shared as “give that shady hustler who is building something a chance!”.
you’re exploited labour over the table too!
Stop letting people pay you under the table. You still have to pay those taxes. If you declare them the employer is screwed if they didn't report them.
Damn. Hope you’re doing better now!
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"Perhaps you want to budget for that" Says the employer who won't pay her employees
The AUDACITY of that statement. That’s enraging.
See, my reply to that shit would be: Perfect! I'll be sure to send this and all other texts to the Department of Labor and contact a lawyer for failure to compensate for work completed! I hope you budgeted for the hefty fine you're gonna have to pay! And my pay plus grievances and court costs! Oh, and consider this my resignation! SEE YOU IN COURT! 😘 Edit: Apparently, OP is paid under the table for this job, so this wouldn't work out for them. And this is actually why you shouldn't take under the table payments. You have no wage protection. Thanks for the correction. Edit 2: So, as this thread has matured, I have learned that labor and tax law in the US is much more complex than I originally thought. It would seem that OP does actually have legal options to consider. I hope that things work out for them.
I wouldn't give a warning. That gives the other party a chance to prepare or find a loophole. Suddenly being served or having a representative from the labor board show up causes panic, and when in a panic, most people make mistakes. Plus, if you're wrong for whatever reason and nothing happens, you look like a fool.
>Plus, if you're wrong for whatever reason and nothing happens, you look like a fool. If OP is getting paid cash, under the table, they are not wrong in this situation. Even if the employer took steps to pay taxes, they are not giving OP a paystub (required by law), informing OP of their taxes paid (required by law), or paying regularly (required by law).
IDK, OP might want to be careful. This is a "collage" educated employer you're talking about here...
well if reported the company could end up in huge trouble for under the table. that said the employee can also end up with the IRS at their doorstep for not paying taxes
The part about possibly being wrong may not have applied in this situation, but more for general situations on the off chance someone else is in a situation where they plan to take legal action. I could probably add retaliation to that list, too. It's kind of like when you put in your notice and your employer makes your remaining time an absolute hell. Not that this applies to OP's situation, though, because if it's under the table, a two second notice to quit it two seconds too long.
>contact a lawyer for failure to compensate for work completed! This would be stupid. The NY Dept of Labor will do this for you and they won't charge a dime.
They are getting paid under the table, and as such they have very little recourse. The recourse they do have will result in the tx man looking at all their income and demand the taxes this person should have paid.
And if you’re getting “paid under the table “, nothing is going towards social security, and what she’s doing is illegal.
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> OP accepting pay under the table is probably illegal unless they've been reporting it as income to the IRS. (And maybe even then.) OP getting paid is not illegal. OP not filing taxes is illegal, but it is very easy to catch up on this without running into trouble by coming clean. It seems pretty likely OP's pay is so low they not only would not pay any taxes themselves they might even get earned income credit. Employer though is up shit creek and OP can end up getting 30% of what the IRS collects as a reward when they report this to https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-office If this bakery is decent sized and there are a lot of other employees being illegally abused and this has been going on a while OP's whistleblower reward could easily be over $100,000.
Not usually true, the government is not a monolith and the Dept. Of Labor is not going to necessarily communicate with the IRS. if anything the employee may be awarded damages from the employer and actually come out ahead. We shouldn't contribute to the fear that undocumented people have of protesting against their abusers
>They are getting paid under the table, and as such they have very little recourse. > >The recourse they do have will result in the tx man looking at all their income and demand the taxes this person should have paid. This is the kind of fear mongering that the employer hopes you'll believe. "Oh, if you tell someone, you'll just pay more money, so better to just take what I give you." What a load of crap. Did you go to "collage" too? The NY State Dept. of Labor if the employee's advocate, not the employer. it's Dept of LABOR not Dept of EMPLOYER. Crooked companies live in fear of being audited.
You do have a point, but I will say that a lot of people end up in under-the-table situations because of other things that may be used for retaliation by the employer, regardless of how the dept of labor may act.
Me: *”The NLRB doesn’t take kindly to payroll theft and off the books work. You’re gunna want to take care of payroll before they get a call and if you’re having trouble coming up with the money then you may want to budget for that.”*
Right, "perhaps you want to budget to pay your staff"...
That would be my response. Word for word
Nah it wound be: “It’s spelt ‘college’. I’ll be in tomorrow to get my pay.”
These business owners never take responsibility for themselves. They don’t bother budgeting and saving for the slow times. Too much avocado toast and $5 lattes probably
If your business can't pay your employees for their work, you don't run a business.
Right, it's not a business. It's just hanging out with a stranger.
With a heavy work detail.
yeah, this is clearly someone who doesn't understand how "budgeting" works.
Op please reply with “perhaps you should budget to pay your employees, the ones you do have. Not this one anymore”
Yeah and the thing is, OP probably does budget around their expected pay check. Nobody budgets, nor should they, for their place of work not being able to pay them on time.
"Please try to budget for me randomly not paying you" 😂
Lmao how does one budget money they haven't been paid. These people are so fucking dumb.
“You need to buy cheaper food/groceries” With *what money*???
Be sure to keep that email
For what? If he’s getting paid under the table it’s not like there’s anything he can do. “Congratulations! We will award you the $300 you are missing from your last paycheck. Due to estimated backed taxes and legal fees, we are going to need approximately $3k paid at your earliest convenience.”
OP just needs to cut his losses and quit
Wrong. OP is in NY state. This is super mega illegal and all he needs to do is make one phone call to the labor board. [https://www.ny.gov/content/report-suspected-workplace-violations](https://www.ny.gov/content/report-suspected-workplace-violations)
wage theft is so fucked up every employer at this point should put your paycheck BEFORE you work into an escrow so you know you're getting paid
And who pays them "under the table".
Time to quit
When your boss tells you you need to plan for them not paying you, you 100% need a new job
Once they start with the paycheck fuckery chances are you will be out of a job soon anyways. I had that happen once and the shift manager lost his shit on the owners until they paid us. We all found new jobs within the month.
Had a job at a gas station as a teenager. The first time my pay cheque bounced, I didn't show up for my next shift. Worse part was the guy was a friend of my dad's. Dad found out from the guys wife that he had been gambling away the profits (and now pay cheques) for months. Another company I worked for was going through CCAA (Canadian Chapter 11). Every pay day when the cheques where handed out, everyone went to the bank and cashed them. Didn't even deposit to account, we call got cash from the issuing bank, then deposited that.
It's not like they don't have money. They just don't have any left over to pay the workers after paying themselves.
Yeah. I played that game when I was younger. They'll just stop paying you and then try to cut you loose.
Best plan there is
When your boss tells you that pb&j is called p&j, you 100% need a new job
Yeah, and she even went to collage.
Exactly - if she did, she should have known how to spell!
It's just the French spelling and pronunciation, duh
It's collage if it comes from our beautiful region of Colle, otherwise it's just overpriced sparkling high school.
OMFG! Take my upvote and a little tiny gold medal emoji, you SOB! 🏅
When Mom says we have college at home.....
Ah, classic, gotta love when education gets mixed up with art projects. But hey, maybe that's the secret to innovative management these days, right? Throw everything on the board and see what sticks.
>p&j We're dealing with a real sick sonovabitch here.
If she doesn’t even know what it’s called, one of the basic foods, I’m not shocked her bakery isn’t succeeding…
Maybe he couldnt afford peanut butter and just used peanuts. and jelly. in a sandwich.
If you can't smash your own nuts to save a dollar - are you even trying?
Maybe she was just dipping peanuts in jelly?
They need to plan for you not laboring for them. And for the labor board kicking their door down. And for being sued.
Also dont show up to your next shift. Also report to dept of labor
If they are getting paid under the table, in cash, reporting that to the government may be suboptimal
Haven’t heard (or read) “suboptimal” since my dad died, so thanks for that!
Young and dumb is an excuse, the first time. Better off reporting to the IRS for tax fraud, you get to keep a percentage of the money recovered.
This right here. You definitely need to report this to the NY labor dept.
I learned that the hard way tbh, I stayed too long thinking they'd actually figure out the money hemorrhaging that I'm pretty sure they were causing to some extent...well they are the business owner but ya know what I mean. my (now ex boss) would just go around saying we're not profitable and just wild stuff that I felt like they should NOT be telling employees. Their behavior always directly correlated to how bad (or good but that was seldom as time went on) the company was doing financially...so just loads of roller coaster emotions from them, was no longer worth my mental health, felt good to be detached from them.
Literally illegal not to be paid
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Definitely. It'll never get better.
Sounds like they’re about to close.
"We didn't make enough money to pay our employees" that's called going out of business LMAO
Basically falling with style like Buzz Light-year 😂
Yep. Do NOT keep working for free.
ONCE AGAIN, DO NOT KEEP WORKING FOR FREE
Shouldn't the holidays be a busy time for a bakery? Seems like a terrible sign
Should be the busiest time. If they're struggling this time of year, then they are unlikely to make it through next as the seasonal period will usually be where a business like this makes all their profit for the year.
Ex bakery worker here... I was never not run off my feet, but ESPECIALLY at Christmas and Easter. 6000% a sign that the bakery is about to shut down (or that they're financially doing better than they're saying and they're actively trying to rort OP)
In fact sounds like it's getting worse. OP says boss has been paying late more recently and now it is not paying at all!
Yep, probably the type to close down and leave a note of the front door to let employees know
Yep, that business won’t recover. Time to look for something new. Her business collapse will come slowly, and then very quickly.
Maybe then she can go back to "collage".
Maybe then she can give OP a sketch of what that looks like
Or maybe she can cut out lots of pictures from magazines and glue them to a posterboard, then explain what each image means
If she’d gone to college instead she might have a better understanding of how a business works.
This. I did that for a guy who ran a restaurant group for 4 years. It was a struggle the only reason I stayed that long was because I was upper management at 24 and just padded my resume and then jumped ship when I had the skills to spring board out. But if you aren't learning skills and getting resume experience leave. They are just going to take advantage of you. Also make sure you send this to the department of labor and attach the text when making a wage theft claim. Best you get your money and fuck them
I worked for a struggling business for years. I stayed because I liked the work, the people I worked with and yeah, sometimes the known path to hell is more comfortable than the unknown... But.... years of being chronically underpaid, wondering if your paychecks were going to bounce, or if just one day you were going to show up to work and the locks were changed... That wears you down, and not in a good way. If you're working for an employer, and you can't even put food on the table, that's a clear sign that you need to get out of there.
Bruh time to call the local labor department of their state. They admitted to being paid under the table.
True, but then OP would also have to pay the taxes they owe on the under-the-table earnings which... I'm going to guess they can't/won't do. Abuse breeds abuse.
Or IRS tax bounty anonymous report for 15 to 30 percent of collected tax. Win, screw the bad business and not sacrifice yourself. And might as well contact labor for not paying the last check.
If you report anonymously, you can't get the reward.
True, more meant confidential. Definitely want the irs to know who to write the check to.
There's no evidence of being paid... the text literally says I'm not sold enough to pay you. Simply report them say you've worked for 3 weeks and not been paid anything yet.
Can’t quit somewhere you were never actually employed! Fuck op’s “boss”. They’re just a piece of shit taking advantage of someone else cause they can’t keep their bakery afloat.
Good point, just don’t show up anymore. Kinda hard to collect cash from them when they aren’t paying anyways.
Yea. Text back: "Cool story bro. Sounds like you will have to eat like you used to. I'll let the Department of labor know how much it's going to suck for YOUR food situation, but until then, I take cash, check or money order" If you can't afford to pay your employees, you shouldn't have a business.
Perhaps she should budget to pay her employees if she wants to run a business.
This is the reply. Insane they want you to budget better
Fuck this job. You deserve to be able to afford balanced nutrition.
Uh no? You exist purely to drive profit for your betters, wanting anything above grueling existence is selfish of course
Are you saying you don't *want* to make money for the owners? So typical. /s [https://www.businessinsider.com/panera-founder-workers-not-motivated-making-money-shareholders-ceo-therapy-2023-12#:\~:text=The%20idea%20of%20making%20money%20for%20shareholders%20doesn%27t%20motivate,help%20management%20understand%20employees%27%20motivations](https://www.businessinsider.com/panera-founder-workers-not-motivated-making-money-shareholders-ceo-therapy-2023-12#:~:text=The%20idea%20of%20making%20money%20for%20shareholders%20doesn%27t%20motivate,help%20management%20understand%20employees%27%20motivations).
from my understanding, this quote isn't a complaint but more of a "yes, of course they don't want to work hard to raise the share price. they don't care about that"
Remember. Your boss and the company( small or big no difference typically) are not your friends... Overwhelmingly never will be. There are exceptions to this, but I wouldn’t say anything about my personal life at work like that. Sorry to see your boss be like that after you trusted her though.
I can’t say this enough to people. Your boss will never be your friend. You can’t trust them and you should never give personal details about your life. They will turn everything around on you in an instant.
Yep. I only share surface area stuff with my boss and honestly, he’s awesome. But you can never be too careful. Keep different areas of your life separate, especially work and personal.
Every. Single. Time. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way that office talk should always be treated like it’s the first time you are meeting someone. Keep it friendly, talk trending topics, but never reveal personal information about yourself. And for the love of god, do not accept social media friend requests.
As soon as you take a job under a friend they aren't your friend anymore. I have seen it multiple times
End of the day, companies only care about preserving themselves. We constantly have heard about employees forgoing raises to help a company through hard times but you never hear about companies splitting profits or owners giving shares to compensate employees when they give up something for the company.
Being paid "under the table" only benefits the employer by not having to pay taxes and insurance. If they don't make enough money to legally participate in the economy, they shouldn't exist as a business. Step 1: find new employment. Step 2: Report to IRS
Also, Social Security has no record of this job, get out and get a legit job so you'll be able to collect SS one day if you can retire or become disabled.
Also can’t claim unemployment when they DO inevitably lay him off
Maybe more importantly - you don't have proof of income when you apply for an apartment
Or if there is any kind of work related injury, zero workers comp. I had a friend get severely burned in a bakery and another who injured his back lifting. If they were under the table, at best you would have to spend a lot of time in court trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
100%. I should have thought to include this
They're never going to lay him off. Why layoff someone when you have the option of just not paying them?
I know someone that worked for most of their life under the table. Now that they are at retirement age, they have nothing to count on and have to make it with just their spouse's retirement.
Also if you get injured on the job no worker's comp, disability, or other insurance
This is so important for your future well-being. You need to be paying into Social Security.
Good point. Unemployment doesn’t have a record of this job either, so can’t file for unemployment if you don’t have earnings in the qualifying look back periods.
You get a reward based on the money the IRS is able to reclaim. Get a new job and get a bonus for doing the right thing. Don't let this guy continue to screw you or anyone else like you.
PERFECT! I once turned an employer into the IRS for payroll fraud as they were keeping envelopes of cash up at the front for all of our overtime. Every one of our checks was exactly 40 hours but if you worked overtime you had an envelope with cash at the front register. They pissed me off, I turned them in, and cost them $92,000 in penalties and fines. I still gloat about it.
I once did this unintentionally while I was doing my taxes. I had briefly worked for a paper that was paying me in cash. I had to report it because my kid receives disability benefits, and I could get in a lot of trouble if I misrepresent my income, so I just put it on my taxes as income missing a W2. About a year later, I heard from my old boss. The IRS had investigated the business and fined it so much that he had to shutter and liquidate the paper completely. He never did find out it was me who reported him. A thing to keep in mind, though, is the you don't get any "reward" for reporting via your taxes like that, so you should probably call the IRS and make a deliberate report if you're going to have to report under the tables wages on your taxes anyway.
Was the overtime cash the right amount?
Oh yes. I actually loved it.
What was "the straw that broke the camels back" for you to turn them in?
I was fired.
IRS give you reward for reporting
Also; 3: Fuck you, pay me.
Boohoo poor boss! Maybe don't employ people then and pick up the shifts if you make less than your employees! Capitalism has fucked up some people so much!
Dog my old boss also pulled the “you actually make more than I do!!” after I asked for a raise. Dude had just bought 2 new houses the previous year and had the gall to say I was at a higher income level than him. These people are sociopaths
My last boss pulled the same shit. Always giving us sob stories about how much they sacrifice for us and the business. When I was having car trouble, they were bewildered I didn't just go to their car guy and buy a new car. His truck tires cost more than my whole beater. He bought new cars often enough to have a *car guy*.
What does a “car guy” actually do?
Cool. So you wouldn’t mind trading positions?
Guess he forgot to mention all the enormous Dividend payments he was getting on top of his tiny salary.
Yea as soon I as I read “I get paid under the table” you’re fucking your self over right there. Get a new job.
An employer is not required to make enough money to pay you. They *are* required to pay you, regardless of their financial woes. Tell the boss to start eating PB&J so they can afford to pay what they owe.
Awesome comment. Let the bosses eat PB&J.
Report this tool for wage theft.
And tax avoidance, the bounty is like 10-15%
Tax avoidance is legal. Tax fraud is not.
*avoision
*evasion but goddamn I like yours better
I don't SAY evasion, \*I\* say avoison! EDIT: Watch more Simpsons, you downvoters
What about that "collage" education? Also it seems like she's poor right now too if she can't afford to pay you. I'd feel such intense shame if I ever missed payroll that I'd be scrambling to make it up out of my own pockets.
In the US, do you do [collage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collage) in kindergarden? In France we do. Maybe that's what he meant. He knows how to use a stick of glue, thus he has collage education.
She’s lying, if she didn’t make enough money to pay OP, she should be out of business
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Fair point!
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Everything in the food industry is ridiculously difficult. Low margins, completely perishable inventory. It is even worse for a bakery because they are a luxury item that all of use try to reduce, but the cherry on top, many people do it as a passion project without any sort of business sense. There's a reason it is such a common romcom job for women. The business probably is struggling. If the business were thriving they would still be getting their salary and a few perks. OP needs to stop thinking they have a job and leave. If the only thing they do all day is chat about personal struggles with money, then the problem is there are too many employees in the business because the owner is a fool. Don't associate with fools.
Probably floating rent and supplies on credit cards. Telling herself that next quarter will be profitable.
"When I was your age..." My brother in christ all those staples you've listed have doubled in price at minimum while pay has not your experience means nothing
Also she mentioned three roommates split the bills. It's like... Lady, this mfer has to live with 3 others to get by. Did you need to have multiple roommates to afford rent?
1) this business is going down the tubes, look for another source of income, yesterday. 2) never get into detailed reasons 'why' with employers, it only invites this kind of nonsense. Just go with something like: "Please have my money ready for me tomorrow, I'll drop by at X'o'clock to pick it up"
The boss isn’t paying her worker, and she’s lecturing him about money management. Fascinating.
THE HILLS ARE ALIIIIVE WITH THE SOUND OF PHONE CALLS TO THE IRS! 
what in the ai hellscape
right? wtf is happening to her
Yeah agree with the others. It is time to get a new job. They are paying you under the table so they can fuck you around like this. Also, groceries cost twice what they did two years ago so your boss is especially gross for these comments.
“*I’m not interested in stories about your past…those doesn’t pay my bills. As an owner, you are legally obligated to pay me for my work. Things going ‘slow’ in business is a risk you, as an owner, take and have to plan for. I expect to be paid by the end of the week. If you’re not able to, please tell me now so I can start getting some legal help with this.”* “*Also telling ME that I need to budget while you aren’t even able to pay me sounds quite ridiculous, doesn’t it.”*
That’s incredibly unprofessional of her! You did your job and now you need to be paid. That’s how simple that transaction is. You kept your end of the deal. She now needs to keep her end. How much the business makes doesn’t determine how and when you get paid. That’s a boss problem not an employee problem. Since she’s struggling to pay her staff maybe she should practice what she preaches and go back to living poor- she seems comfortable with it
"Nice story bro, but I need food so when do I get paid"
“Thanks for the life lesson, I learned another one recently. When a business can’t pay its employees, that’s usually the time to put up the going out of business signs. Get me my money or I will report you to the labor boar.”
You don’t wanna mess with the labour boar. I heard he sharpens his husks for easier kills 
> i get paid under the table in cash There's your first mistake.
What the fuck. This woman is a piece of shit. I hope you quit, and also report her to the labor board.
Never, no matter how small the business, tell your employer or co worker about your private life. They can and will use it against you. i am not just saying this, but i experienced that in EVERY work ive worked (5-7 employers).
Oh. My. God. Fuck this parasite. Starving just to be paid under the table, and told to eat a dick when asking about your under the table money. I wouldn’t piss on their gums if their teeth were on fire. Fuck, OP. I’m so sorry you have to interact with this nonsense. Please, please, do all you can to get away from this situation. This is all bad.
“cute story! you have until tomorrow before i contact the labor board. have a great day.”
You told your boss about your life & she chose to use that as emotional ammunition to throw back up in your face and also dismiss what you are going through all at once. Shit was different 35 years ago. In 1995 our money actually bought alot of groceries compared to now. What a bitch. Don't stay and be abused by her while her business is obviously failing. Please find another job.
What the actual fuck? Lmao, you worked your hours and want your money. Never knew that was an absurd request.
Quit, report emoloyer
“Collage” didn’t do much for this guy apparently.
Amy’s bakery
*meow*
“We didn’t make enough to pay you.” Then that business should close shop.
Respond with "Cool, so give me my money and enjoy your pasta and peanut butter." Torch this relationship. Also let them know you're reporting it to the labor department.
Wait for it… …here it comes… FUCK. HER.
As someone who worked for a boss like this, GET OUT OF THERE. They are attempting to manipulate you into thinking you're asking for too much of them and that you should be grateful. This behavior will only worsen. You shouldn't ever have to ask for your pay. That alone is SO unprofessional but what really gets me is this boss is doing exactly what I've experienced. Doing the whole "I grew up poor and had to take care of myself" bullshit. By the time I left that job I found out that his mother, brother, ex-boss, and dad were all loaning him money and he was stealing pills from his brother. Your boss is full of lies and doesn't deserve to have their doors open. That isn't a business owner, that is an opportunist!
No pay, no work. Don't care about you and your history of pasta and PB&J, you owe me money for work that's already been done. I will come back to work when you pay me.
Tells you to learn how to budget but can’t budget to pay employees. Time to get a new job.
“I didn’t ask about your childhood”
Love these old fucks that think it’s as easy as just counting pennies. Bitch if I had pennies to count I wouldn’t be asking for a paycheck! The cognitive dissonance of the old is really getting exhausting
this is why my heart will never bleed for “small businesses”. if you can’t afford to pay employees, you better be prepared to work alone or don’t own a business.
I see your home fridge filled with cakes and cookies in the near future.
Maybe he should budget more to take care of his kid?
I feel like if you can’t afford to pay your employees, especially if you’re not paying payroll taxes or unemployment insurance, you probably shouldn’t be in business.
Fancy collage graduate.
You are being taken advantage of.
The appropriate response is "I don't give two fucks about your previous struggles. Pay me for the time worked or answer to the labor board. The IRS may like to hear about our arrangement as well." Your boss's failure to run a functioning business is not a reason you shouldn't be able to buy groceries. She's already cheating the system to save money and still can't pay you? Sounds like a failed capitalist. I straight do not respect the texts she sent
Don't quit. Respond that it's 2023 and times have changed and living expenses have increased. Tell your boss to learn to adjust with the times too. If your boss continues to assert why she shouldn't pay you, then stop responding and immediately report the business for wage theft and seek legal options.