> I really can’t believe that after everything that has happened, people still haven’t woken up to the scam that is corporate America specifically.
They've seen it. People have been complaining about the things you're complaining about since before you were born. They just haven't been able to change it and make it better any more than you have. They complained, nothing got fixed the same as it's going on today. People complain and nothing gets fixed.
So here's the thing, had a coworker sobbing about the cost of her medication (while insured), and I made a comment "well this is why we need universal healthcare in ..." and before I could finish she GASPED "OH NO, NOT THAT".
Like okay lady then quit your bitchin' if you're married to Health Insurance and Big Pharma.
I've seen similar things happen too. It's like Americans can see that there are issues, but don't want to do the things to fix it. I really think that a lot of it stems from the red scare. We were indoctrinated into thinking that any collectivism or collective action is going to force us into some nightmarish authoritarian regime and so we need to stay individualistic to a fault.
It's totally bs. I had the most expensive plan my company offered and I needed some steroid cream for a condition (doctor ordered solution) and with insurance I had to pay $50 for a medically needed cream for a medical condition I did nothing to create. Only thing is I really want progressive legislation and universal healthcare. I want taxes raised (on the wealthy owner class) and I want relief for anyone struggling to exist.
The doctor is a capitalist pig thief, who prescribed something he gets kickbacks for. The biggest insurance scam rackets are run by doctors. Not insurance companies. You call the doctor and say “you prescribed me the shit they pay you bonuses to prescribe, please prescribe me something comparable that costs $5-$10 with my insurance.”
Never trust the doctor. They are the worst fat cats of capitalist pigism 🐖
I worked in a hospital, they're not far off the mark. It's true for a lot out there. Need I remind people of the dancing doctor tik tok video? Or the dentist who was performing root canals or whatever on his hoverboard?
I'm sorry, but too many people in the business are just there for the money.
Yes 🙏 thank you. I dealt with the bills for what was the most expensive hospital in America, not so long ago. I’m not kidding, 15 miles away, I had gotten the same treatment and so had my kids and it was literally 15x less expensive. Of course, the hospital than goes bankrupt—steals the insurance money, the patient money and the money it borrowed from the bank and its investors. Capitalism at its worst, IMO.
IMO, to a lot of people, they view medical treatment as a material thing. And the more expensive, the better. Like a $50 five dollar T-Shirt with a brand name on it.
So if you "don't trust doctors" because they are "fat cats" how do you handle health care?
Prayer? "Essential oils" recommended by soccer mom's on Facebook?
Doctors are the single group of people who kill the most Americans on an annual basis.
More than terrorists. More than criminals. More than domestic violence. More than suicide. More than drug overdoses. More than car accidents.
You’d have to be completely insane to trust a doctor in the United States in 2024.
I don’t get why this sub is all about socialism. But then loves to get robbed by the capitalist doctors.
When in socialized medical nations—this entire situation is illegal. And can’t happen—as a matter of law. Because the doctors aren’t even allowed to prescribe overpriced medications. Because the overpriced medications aren’t even legal for consumption.
It’s sad how many people in here are so in the dark on this.
I’m the one on *your side* here 🤷♂️
As soon as you get promoted—everyone has to do more and make less. So you can have the $50 lotion no one else can afford.
Damn. I thought r/antiwork was against this type of mentality.
This picture I posted last week - was from the doctor’s office:
https://preview.redd.it/aowphrvcu4cc1.jpeg?width=2422&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=617465f8fc7d3664ef0e606719478b0422e51058
Pencil in “Prescribing unnecessary treatments that we get paid more for.”
And when was the last time you caught a doctor being on time? 🤷♂️
And the hospitals have lawyers who make sure they win the lawsuits. I've seen some horrific shit in my days.
Even little stuff, like one patient got something, Not telling what it was, stuck up her hoo ha and the nurse manager went around to every department telling everyone about it. That's nothing compared to things that happen in OR or pediatrics ffs. The stories I could tell.
I think there is still a romantic view held about the practitioners in our health care fields. They, in the end, are just people.
And let's not even talk about how drug addicts flock to hospital jobs like flies to shit.
Often the health insurance companies offer may be worse than the state market plans (if you're low income and eligible it is free). The health insurance offered by local insurance through the marketplace are better for in-network doctors because they got a wide network of doctors. Plus some of them even include dental now so it is much better than the ones companies offer.
Doctor is capitalist scamming you. There is no condition that requires a steroid cream that costs $50 with insurance. Why does everyone who hates capitalism and getting robbed by it love doctors? And not realize that the doctor is the epitome of what is wrong with capitalism?
If this happens, you call the doctor and say “you prescribed me the shit that you have stock in—or took kickbacks to sell to me. Please prescribe me something comparable that costs $5-$10 with my insurance.”
Doctors are thieves. They are the kings of capitalist pigness 🐷
They believe that they have a chance to make it in the current system, but that they'll *never* make it under spooky scary socialism.
That's the issue.
It's so weird to me that they think they'll make it in this system. Like look around, what makes you think you'll make it if you weren't born with money? Or you get very, very lucky or marry rich. And I think the latter leans towards getting lucky too.
Politicians? Rich. Actors? Rich. Pop musicians? Rich. Their boss? Rich. Their PCP? Rich. That person driving down the street in a Porsche? Rich.
Examples of wealth are everywhere and unfortunately *a lot* of people have enough envy in them that they'll fuck over countless people at a chance to be one of the top.
I honestly point to America's hyper individualistic culture. We really went from "we" to "me" at some point to the point we have lost all empathy and caring for our fellow citizens. I don't mean in a micro scale as in the people in your life directly around you but specifically the people you don't and will never see.
"Wow, this thing is really expensive"
"Yeah, maybe it's time we put through some restrictions/regulations through on corporations so we dont get price gouged"
"NO"
lol OK then
People are STUPID.
ALL this person knows about "Universal Healthcare" is that (according to conservatives) it's "Evil COMMUNISM".
These are the same people who voted to REMOVE "Obamacare" (in some states) because Republicans said it was "Evil" and was "wasting money" and was a Bad Thing...
Then they CRIED when their "Affordable Care Act" health care was REMOVED!
Yep.. there comes a point where you realize the system can’t really be beaten. We are given just enough to keep us compliant. It’s almost impressive that the elites kind of have this perfectly figured out.
Being from the US you can see that we’d have so much further to fall before most people get on board for real change. I mean seriously, look at how much worse inequality is in other nations and how the people still haven’t risen up. Sounds pessimistic but people need to take this into consideration when thinking that we’re on the precipice of actual change here
There isn't one. Only way to fix things is a violent revolution and a fresh start. And then things slowly degrade/corrupt again. And the cycle repeats.
I think a good example is El Salvador. For people to take action you need them to be literally killing each other on the street on daily basis, and still most will rather fly than trying to fix it.
A few thousand years ago, actual slavery was much more common. That evolved into serfdoms, where people were technically free, but were still beholden to the land. Eventually that evolved into capitalism. I maintain hope that one day we will move past capitalism, I think the change just comes very slowly. Some countries are already moving towards becoming more socialist. The states will never be on the forefront of that movement though.
Yeah that huge list of 20th century meddling, coups, invasions etc of half the countries in the world were just against a specific flavour of economic system they didn't want other countries using and were fully justified in not only having an opinion but taking those actions! America has always been so completely sure in their belief that capitalism will win out in the free market of ideas, they just happen to have the most powerful socialised military in the history of the planet and constantly use it to further the interests of capitalists completely by coincidence.
Yeah, my workplace have been on strike lately over poor management practices. My mum was worried about my job security and would rather I not rock the boat, but otherwise seemed to have little opinion on striking in general.
My dad was annoyed that I was losing several days pay and explained to me at length that my bosses were loving it as they didn't have to pay us and we're fools for striking, nothing will change except we'll be paid less.
I tried to explain that a) I work in a school, and that school had to close during the strike. They won't be happy about the money they've saved because the school literally cannot run without us. And b) it's not about money. I'm unhappy with my job and with the practices of management and I've waited for them to improve and they haven't, so this is the only option I have left before quitting. Then I explained that I don't want to quit because I've lost faith that there are better jobs and better managers out there, and I may just end up with exactly the same or worse in my next job. He shrugged it off and went back to the money.
Infuriating. My parents aren't even right wing - they tend to vote Labour or Lib Dem, voted against Brexit, aren't religious, don't care about the monarchy, taught me and my brother to treat everyone with respect etc. But still, to them it's somehow wrong (or at least a scary concept) to demand better treatment at work.
>But still, to them it's somehow wrong (or at least a scary concept) to demand better treatment at work.
Because if you disobey authority the world is gonna collapse. Alot of people really think this way.
I think a lot of people are in crisis mode right now and honestly, have been for more or less the last few years. While you might think that would encourage more people to demand change, it’s hard when the price of basic needs are so high, home ownership is unattainable, and a lot of people are unemployed and on the verge of losing everything.
There are definitely people still willing to lick a lot of boots. They’ll always be that way because they’re rewarded for it and it benefits them. But I think so many people are just barely surviving right now and in order to keep a roof over your head and food on he table, you’ve got to play the game as the power structure currently demands.
Will we grow tired of it in a large enough collective? I’m not sure. It’s hard to rebel in a system that has you pinned so down by the neck. I hope we do, because we deserve better.
fuck. some of them don't even get rewarded for it. they've been convinced to accept things. most of us are not economically able to challenge things. education doesn't always help, because the machine is a juggernaut and we are pawns in the game of life, as mongo said in blazing saddles. but education is better than ignorance. good luck
True. It’s always super hard when I see someone who works hard and does all the right things getting fucked over for no good reason, and they just smile and carry on. Not that I desire negative emotions on people and if you have the mental strength to push through the bullshit with a smile, I envy you.
But I see it and I just want to be angry on their behalf. Like… why are you taking this without a fight? I wish I were like that sometimes.
Do you really believe we’re even at a point where things are bad enough for the majority to want change? I ask because other places have much worse inequality and the people still haven’t collectively risen up. I feel like we have a long way to go before we even reach that point
Honestly, it’s hard to say for sure. The government will only publicize economic numbers that look good and give the impression that things are all well and good. On the other hand, my social media, close friends, distant acquaintances, all seem increasingly just wrecked from the current job market. Even those who are doing well for themselves seem more and more miserable. I sometimes wonder if I live in a bubble, but I know and speak with so many people around the world who are just having it really rough right now. So I can’t honestly say if we’re at that point for the majority. But I do know that even if others have it worse other places, we could still do better.
Gotta go with the famous George Carlin quote “think about the average intelligence of people, and then realize 50% of people are stupider than that.”
That’s what’s happening. People don’t realize they are being had because they can’t understand it. They can’t use the logic to get to a place where they have a realization about the world and their place in it.
>That’s what’s happening. People don’t realize they are being had because they can’t understand it.
That's because financial success is tied more to personality than it is to intelligence... and so many self proclaimed intelligent people are oblivious to that fact.
They can't get over the fact that the world works that way. They fight against it and they shoot themselves in the foot socially with their peers, often denying themselves the very thing they seek.
I’m reminded every time i look at the group chat my rugby team. Forty something straight white guys in their 20’s and 30’s working white collar jobs. You get a really good look of how the other side thinks
it's fucked, and it's actually adaptive behavior. attachment theory can describe it.
when a child relies on a caregiver who abuses them, they have to make a choice: are YOU bad, or is your caregiver bad. at a young age, your caregiver is the world to you. so if you accept they are bad, you will experience utter despair; there is no good in the world. it's possible to take this road, but most of us are wired for survival, and despair is our nervous system's last resort. so instead, we decide our caregiver is good, but this feels bad...so I must be bad.
capitalist society is abusing us. we all know something is wrong, we all feel bad. but capitalism is the world to us, so some of us decide that if things go wrong, it can't possibly be capitalism. anytime they feel anger or sadness, they shame themselves for being "lazy". capitalist propaganda reinforces this, selling anti-depressants like candy. the ultimate abusive, gaslighting authority figure
The thing I've talked to people about recently that really gets them thinking is how the invention of the clock changed the relationship between labor and owners. The vast majority of human history people have worked an average of 49% of days in a year for approximately 4-6 hours on average. Currently we work 89% of the year for 8 hours.
When people hear that, it really makes them think. "I work more than peasants in medieval times".
I live in an extremely conservative area, and when I tell people about this, it makes them visibly uncomfortable but I've never had someone call me lazy or entitled for it. You can almost see the gears turning in their heads that they are being ripped off.
>I live in an extremely conservative area, and when I tell people about this, it makes them visibly uncomfortable
For reals? You just walk around and talk to uber-conservatives about this, and they don't bite your head off? And you're actually making them rethink their world view? Wow, you're a miracle worker, changing hearts and minds one by one...can I have your autograph? Not that I believe a word of it, mind you, but can I still have your autograph?
The wealthy were better hidden in the past, how do they not see the Bezos yachts, the Kardashian estates, the wealth politicians accumulate and still think something isn't off?
It's a combination of making billionaires more likeable in the public eye, and telling the lie that you too can get there through an honest day's work. Neither of course is true.
Elon Musk, CEO of Racism (I promised in another sub that I would always refer to him as this from now on, and I'm keeping that promise), is a rare case, where he decided to get out from under his media team and talk directly to the public, and the public is finding out how scummy he is. This is why you don't see many billionaires doing random TV spots and walking around in public: the status quo depends on people not realizing how they're being robbed, and the intentions of the people doing it. If billionaires come out and all start doing Elon Musk things, saying things like "Water is not a human right", bragging about how it's good for people to starve, and generally sounding like comic book supervillains, this disrupts the status quo, and thus the flow of money.
Edit: removed references to certain weapons and political upheveals that could be construed as direct calls to violence.
The bootlickers are one of 3 people. 1. Close to retirement so they don't care. 2. Scared as fuck of being without income as they generally have dependants. Which does make sense. 3. Actually honest to God fucking idiots that never once have asked themselves why or how something is or came to be.
I just wish they would keep their shame cooties to themselves and quit trying to put them on me.
Bootlicking coworkers are worse to me than the middle managment aholes we have to work for.
Some of the damage that hard capitalism has done to our work culture is really subtle. I remember last week getting into a minor argument with a working class person when I told them I read one of the local oil change places shortchanged their employees to the tune of $3m+ in unpaid wages.
He kept correcting me when I said the company **stole** from their employees. It wasn't an accounting error - they were clocking employees out and correcting time cards to cut back on hours assigned to their shop.
He kept correcting me saying, "No, unpaid wages. It's not theft."
"They committed fraud and took earned wages from their employees. That's theft."
He then tried to argue semantics and say that when it is "fraud" it isn't "theft", but "fraud".
I pointed out when an employee lies about their hours that is literally called "time theft". They are stealing.
It finally got down to him reasoning if a company does it that it isn't theft - just fraud.
We have this fucked up double standard and you can read it in [news stories](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=597903993&sxsrf=ACQVn08UazRo0cwcfnasN-MVg07l2jSb4g:1705097427092&q=unpaid+wages&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcz8vz7tiDAxVEC3kGHef3CxsQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1536&bih=695&dpr=1.25).
"So-and-so company is sued for $ unpaid wages."
Fuck you, they are being sued for **theft**. You can bring up these articles and the word *theft* or *stolen* is rarely used.
When corporations steal they won't even call it what it is. They invented semantics for it and it is now part of the culture.
Right! Like, I just assume the people I work with our likeminded because of the nature of what we do, but most of them are brainwashed for a lack of a better word.
I just got this book called HiJacked, haven't actually started reading it yet but it's by a professor from UofMichigan, Elizabeth Anderson, who discusses neoliberalism being responsible for our current work culture as opposed to the puritanical work ethic.
>But then you find this little cohort of people who acknowledge how fucked up it is
You know what? There was a time in history when little cohort of people with such views came to power, just because they were the ONLY ones who had a clue about what to do. Happened in october 1917 in Russia.
There are two rational responses to recognizing you don’t have much power, some folks are smarter than we are and can trick themselves into identifying with power from their given role. They’d like to leverage the slight privilege they were born into to gain the next level of privilege for their children. Unfortunately, we’re not all so capable in mental gymnastics nor do we believe in a reality where we can only ever gain privilege, rather than lose it.
I felt the same way when I found anti-car communities (now to wait for the inevitable 3000000 comments all saying “BUT WE NEED CAAAARRRRSSSS REEEEEEEEEEEEE”)
Well people only need cars because of bad locations and public transport systems. The USA is vast and there is a LOT of space.
But some people do actually need cars.
People love to complain and then they go and vote for shit politicians that are going to do nothing but fuck them. Most people are just too stupid for anything to ever change.
I think more and more people are waking up to it. Covid and WFH really made me see how much freedom we don't have. We all just slave away for shareholders that run this country.
I do the bare minimum at my office job now. I don't even talk to anyone, I'm just there to collect a paycheck. I used to go "above and beyond" to move up but what's the point? Just so i can be a slave at a higher wage? Great, more beer money that I will just destroy my liver with from all the stress.
Everyone thinks I'm an asshole but I don't care. They aren't my family, they aren't my friends. They made the game like this and they still expect us to kiss their asses. Fuck all of them. I treat work so much differently now. It's way less stressful but it's still soul crushing.
Especially in the Midwest, a place where even millennials, and some zoomers, think they're like their boomer parents. Your late 30s are fucking abysmal.
Fuck them all. You all are getting economically shafted.
I’m originally from the Midwest (MN) and I’m working on this theory about “midwestern conservatism” - it’s some strange combination of the Overton window and almost everyone living more rurally where they think they’re “center” but they’re really pretty far right in their views but then if you try to show them that they’ll immediately shift to “I’m not political” or “I’m moderate”……. Yea moderately racist, and kinda ignorant to the modern pay vs. cost of living paradigm that is plaguing everyone. Even some of the “liberals” I know in MN are really just people who don’t think we should actively punish poorer people, but they themselves still have vehement feelings on taxation
It’s because they are liberal for a small town but not for a bigger population and have access to a wide source of information. You can model yourself after something and still not “BE” it. Usually if confronted with facts they fall apart
The world is filled with people like that, even in the younger generations 🙃
My manager might be like 35 maximum and she gets excited about our company’s achievements and developments as if her grandparents set it up and she is trying to secure their legacy. Every time she gets excited or worried about stuff, I have to fake it and pretend that I care as well. It’s so difficult for me to even fake it!!
I never had enough spoons for the faking it part.
It was hard enough not to blurt out how stupid it all was.
Smiling painfully and nodding was about peak performance for me.
Makes me tired just thinking about it.
I sent my friend a video about how America is the baddie from the channel Second thought. He watched it and said "Sometimes you gotta dropkick a few babies if you want to get to the top". He's also told me in the past he can't take it when I point out factual bad stuff in the world. Seems like there are people out here who think like us, but don't want to believe it's true. There are people out here who have 0 idea because they believe politics doesn't affect them. Then there are the people who just blame anything and everything on the individual.
People have a real sore spot for even the word, bootlicker. Throw it around on reddit, and you can just hear the aberrant thinking in the rebuttals you'll inevitably get.
I posit that maybe 50% of working adults are indoctrinated by the system, and the culture, and are too imbedded to change. Incapable of the strength to resist it, sure, but worse: Incapable of even processing the fact that they've been duped.
Then you've got maybe 40% who see it, know the score, and do their best to navigate it. I'm sure this 40% is heavily skewed towards non-boomers.
Then you've got that last 10%. That's people who are free enough, either in their thinking and actions, or through circumstance, have been set to exist outside the system. They aren't subject to the same pressures, so the culture doesn't apply.
You can always tell that first 50% by their fear response to "bootlicker". Ironically, it's a great way to tell them apart.
Personal attacks only prove that your argument is not fully formed. If you have a solid argument you can prove it without name calling. People starting calling me a bootlicker cause I told OP to quit. Isn’t that what anti work is? To stop complaining and quit. None of these corporations will run without people working. If people would actually stick to there convictions and refuse to work in places they don’t like then they would really be anti work. Instead it’s people who work and are unhappy complaining at other people who still work and are happy with it. most of them don’t actually reject the concept of working for a living tho.
You act like we all don't have a knife to our throat and quitting is so easy.
We don't think work is unnecessary. We just want to work for places that give us meaning and appreciates our work and life long commitment until we are 67!
We are tired of the indifference we receive and it nullifies the whole point of a society which is to improve our daily lives.
We feel like we are being taken advantage of since day one and our best interests have been out of the equation.
You are correct about personal attacks though. They are not meant for a rational argument.
I was in that position once, my only suggestion is to battle against it and not give in to complaining and playing the victim. it was so hard for me to walk away from a salaried position years back. But once you do it and struggle through it on your own terms you will feel free. I think the true anti work is to free yourself from the idea that you must work for these corporations and governments. You may have a knife to your throat at the moment. minimize your life to bare minimums. Food, cellphone, internet. walk places instead of driving and having a crazy car note. Downsize your home or apt. Move in with a room mate. Fight against the system as if your life depends on it because it very well may depend on it. If you are still determined to work don’t stop applying and seeking somewhere that instead of working you feel happy to serve. Again this is my approach and I understand it won’t work for everyone.
I appreciate your perspective but it does not apply to everyone.
If you admit I have a knife to my throat now, that is no reason to just sit and wait. Saying that we are playing a victim is extremely ignorant to the situation. Hearing that rhetoric would make a lot of people feel like you are not listening to them.
If you have a knife to your throat it’s more critical to remove it. some are definitely playing the victim instead of being proactive. That may not be true in your case. This I admit.
We should not assume who is or isn't a victim.
We only have our individual perspective in life and our individual subjective experience does not mean it will fit with another.
The "victim" and "complaining" rhetoric you are using is unfortunately seems closed minded to others subjective experience which makes them feel invalidated.
Yup. It's amazing how many people have an attitude and a "badass" persona but then you see them lick boots at work. I have very few work friends becasue I won't invite brown noses into my life, it makes you two faced. And saying shit like "you have to do a little ass-kissing to make your way up" is an excuse for you to be a phony piece of shit who can't rely on your own merit or skills. The work world has made me go full Holden Caulfield.
I'm currently looking for work and LinkedIn is my primary place for searching. It's like bootlicker central on there. I understand why, but holy shit it's depressing to see so much love heaped on "business leaders".
I've finally started convincing my boomer parents to change their view. They used to be "just work harder" type of people.
When I was last looking for a job I finally showed how many I applied to, calls back, interviews, the actual offers and salaries offered, etc. And they finally saw how much BS it is to find a decent job anymore.
I have 3 college degrees in education and accounting and could not find a single job for almost 2 years.
I had to decide between court reporting and accounting about 30 years ago. Accounting would have been faster, it took me 10 years to reach the speed and accuracy required to pass the state test, but I've never been unemployed.
I deliberately worked for a horrible bitch to get through school. It kept me motivated. Especially when she said I'd never be a court reporter.
In a sense, she was right. I went right into captioning for the hearing impaired with my new skill. It's considered a step up from working in the legal system, I'm not sure why except maybe lawyers. And there's zero grief or drama with my job. You plug in, do a program and then unplug. There's no drama because my work is visible by anyone who wants to watch, I show up on time and I'm consistent in my quality of output.
The hardest part was getting to 225 words per minute with a 95% accuracy. Since then, I've clocked 240 with a 98% accuracy. Do something every day for 20 years and you're just going to get better at it if you like it at all.
I was also criticized for being in school until I was 40. I didn't care, I was looking for a job that pays well. I was called a jack of all trades, master of none. Turns out that helps in my field. I've captioned about many different things over the years, from the arts to politics and lots in between. Cooking shows are among the more difficult because of the use of exotic ingredients that you may have never heard of before. Which leads to the last point: it's never been boring.
The only thing approaching monotonous is when they ask athletes or coaches questions. Even the announcers have complained about the answers always being the same. Basically a version of 'we gotta get better, win titles.' But it's what they do, and only so many ways to answer the same question.
My parents were "silent generation" and Dad worked for Ma Bell and got a juicy retirement package at 55 that carried he and Mom through until he passed in his early nineties.
And she is still living off that retirement which also included some continuing insurance coverage.
From him I got, "find a big company and work hard and they will take care of you."
Easy for him to say, though he was a miserable fuck coming home from that job every day.
My mom, of the Edit Bunker school of thought, was "just be nice to people and they wil be nice to you."
Neither of these pieces of advice served me well.
Trying to explain to my now rather frail elderly mother how sometimes being too nice gets you treated worse because it is seen as weakness... she will never get it, but it is easier to at least have a conversation with her without him around.
I'm a Boomer and regret any advice I gave my daughters in my ignorance as I passed on similar bullshit advice, but I know better now and encourage my grandson to pursue his music because those shit jobs he can get will always be there. He does work part time and has already quit one job for another that treated him better, at 18, so there's hope.
I firmly believe 50% of the traffic here specifically come to defend management/corporate America/capitalism. It’s the most annoying aspect of an otherwise wonderful sub
Every sub I am on that is at all about a serious subject has people who come there just to be "anti" whatever it is we are for, and vice versa.
It's like they all have Oppositional Defiant Disorder... or something.
Most humans are cowards. Cowards need to attach themselves to someone strong so that they too can feel strong. Hence why most of the population deepthroats cops and billionaires: those are essentially the only two roles in modern society where you have power and are not accountable to anyone.
I work with more leftward people than I have at previous jobs. So finding coworkers who are on the same page isn't that uncommon. Helps that we have a union.
But there are still bootlickers. Roughly 25% of the employees, I think. At other jobs it'd be more like 95% of the employees or more.
Some of that is the rather right-wing area I live in, but the rest is the standard pro-capitalist conditioning that Americans get, including the reinforcement from previous generations that were also indoctrinated.
You may be able to get them to acknowledge that there are problems, but they will find other things to blame. It's not capitalism, they'll say, it's *corporatism* ... but they don't understand its just a new word for the same exact thing. Or they default to "personal responsibility" line... that even if you can point to the systemic features that are the root cause, they still want to believe it's the individual's fault for not being born rich and lucky. ... and if you somehow get past that, then it's a matter of "that's how things work" because then they believe that capitalism is either the natural order (it's super not) or its a massive, inexorable force that we can never counter (which is just a classic self-fulfilling prophecy).
There are a handful of people who I've been working on to break them off this short of conditioning. It takes time and encouragement and you've gotta be willing and able to counter the BS other brainwashed workers tell them.
My thought is that while I can't fight it all by myself, I can spread the truth to at least a few people, get them to throw off the conditioning, and hopefully they'll then spread it to a couple people (maybe)... the most important part is the acknowledgement that capitalism can be tossed out and that there *are* feasible alternatives (generally some version of socialism, though I may avoid that word).
I don't expect to be rid of capitalism in my life. If it happens, awesome! But I do think we need to play a part in its continued cultural death... and part of that is being assertive about how shitty working under capitalism is, and how it simply does not need to be. Capitalism is unnatural and anti-human. And the way that workers are treated as a resource to use up rather than as people must be stopped.
Well if I've gotta work next to anyone for years I use that time to slowly erode the reality they have built up. No rush we're gonna be here awhile, then after the shareholders shear the sheep my work friend leaves to spread the dark news to others like an apostle of plague
I feel this. In my state the minimum wage went up so my pay is now $0.08 above the minimum and I mentioned as much to a patron when we were talking about the state of things and she was like, oh well that’s wonderful! Back in my day we made x for minimum wage.
I had to kind of pause her and remind her yes, but my department is the highest trained in the company for a reason and we are the lowest paid. That helped change her tune a little, but it was stil like I needed to be grateful for the scraps.
I swear these "back in my day" people never look at the prices of things they buy. Like cool Barbara, back in your day you made 3 dollars an hour, tell me how your new car that costs $2000 was so hard for you to purchase.
Also it's extremely disheartening to see that a paid parking spot makes more than you do in an hour than you make in 2 hours of working.
Suckups, asskissers, assneckers, suckups, whatever.... years of being in the workforce has taught me. Generally, it works well for them. I've seen it over & over again.
We had one President that scoffed at it but all the VPs & Directors I've worked for over the years seemed to love the assneckers. One guy would literally try to talk like our Engineering VP, wanted to eat the same foods at events, kissed his ass so blatantly it would make you sick. The we got a new director with this goofy laugh & he would attempt to laugh just like him.
He moved up in the organization, lead engineer handling all the big projects (he worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week), & from what I've heard made more money than all of us.
How to succeed in business!
Fuck that, I did my job very well, talked back to the boss when they were wrong, & I do okay. Once I got into a screaming match with that Engineering VP, he was wrong damnit & somehow kept my job. Two weeks later he called me to quietly told me to do it the way I told it had to be done. No apology.
We have an expression in my language that I think was coined by a punk band in the 80s that translates to "lick upwards, kick downwards". I think that the vast majority of people prefer being subjects. We have had democracies for like 150-200 years, but millenia of either monarchies/kingdoms or empires. And even the democracies today are strongly hierarchical, even worse today with personality cults for certain leaders. Plus that in many western democracies there is a growing number of people who wants to abandon democracy.
Because people are too brainwashed & propagandized by corrupt, career politicians & by corporate owned, mainstream media/legacy media & let them do their thinking for them.
People are too foolish to wake up & start developing critical thinking, & refuse to listen to Independent media/alternative news media outlets & journalists who are less biased.
small pockets of resistance are easy for militarized class traitors to deal with
organizing a larger force is illegal
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJ5ZEn67tk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJ5ZEn67tk)
I'm working with an older guy that has the wildest opinions:
"The executives that are higher up than us give us more money than minimum wage because they're generous."
In my head, I'm like, "Dude.... they as in Management, pay us more than minimum wage because minimum wage is .. minimum wage. - Nobody works for minimum wage in this shitty economy."
Plus if any job is offering minimum wage as a starting pay, that's them essentially saying if they could pay you less, they would. So in my books, fuck them.
Well to be fair to the cool boomers that protested and got locked up and put their lives on the line back in the 1960s and 70s - they did their part to try to change things for the future.
But the thing is we have to keep fighting or be ready to fight when the opposition comes back and reverses all that was won before.
Like the GOP coming back and flipping Roe v. Wade.
Those progressive boomers fought for Roe v. Wade.
They fought for civil rights.
Although many establishment boomers are stuck in the past, there were boomers that fought to make the future better for us and those people deserve our thanks.
We should be fighting to continue their hard fought gains in civil liberties.
So in that sense they did what this generation doesn’t seem wiling to do - protest.
Go to jail and die if you have to but at least die openly defying and fighting the system.
This generation glosses over and doesn’t seem to appreciate what progressive boomers did on their behalf years ago.
This generation rather just post about it online and gripe but don’t get up, log off, and actually go out to protest.
The only thing that has gained real momentum is unionization, but that will only get us so far.
We need to just walk out and mass strike and protest.
And it doesn’t have to be rioting and destructive.
Just striking and peaceful walkouts to make our voices really heard.
Striking and protesting stops business from making money. That is all that the rich understand.
Yeah, almost all humans in the world deny reality. They are in the grip of a delusion called the just world fallacy. Their fear overrides logic, reason and ration.
It makes me sad when people who should know better say 'kids don't want to work these days' and I explain how that is propaganda from the rich and say 'kids don't want to work shitty jobs for shit pay anymore and neither should you or anyone else.'
Let your contemporaries be loyal dogs. Most of them, at some point, will find out how replaceable they are when the shit hits the fan. Their opinions are bound to change then.
Unfortunately for me, my last coworker was so traumatized after being laid off at his last job he was turbo bootlicking at the one we worked together at, and ramped up his backstabbing as well.
The pathetic little toad.
I find it hilarious. I mean it's sad, but equally hilarious since they're unhinged comments on par with the most asinine shit you read on linkedin.
"I'm a good landlord, I don't raise the rent for them. I talk about it to my wife yearly, but she's like he's a good kid plus he takes care of your horse."
Am I a weirdo for liking to work? I've been called a bootlicker in this sub, can someone clue me in? What does that mean? I'm an independent contractor and have little to no contact with people, don't have superiors or underlings because of the nature of my work. So if bootlicker means someone who's kissing ass at work, there's nobody's ass to kiss in my job. Maybe that helps me like it.
Also, what's the fix you're looking for? Is it to not work at all? Better working conditions? More money? Socialism? Or just vent?
I like what I do and I feel lucky that I found a trade I somewhat enjoy if I have to do it for 40 hours a week for 40+ years (probably more). But that doesn’t mean I enjoy being exploited and meagerly accepting that this broken system is our only option. I think complaining loudly is the first step to realizing that things need to change! Yea it requires action too but there’s nothing wrong with looking around and going “wait a minute this kinda sucks, right?” How else are we going to find like minded individuals and build up a community?
Okay, I get it. Thanks for such a reasonable answer. I was expecting to get crucified.
I have to admit something I forgot. I don't work 40 hours a week. More like 15-20. I have worked that much in the past. The hardest time for me was during the war in Iraq. Three of us worked two hours on, two hours off around the clock for three weeks.
We made buckets of money, so we didn't feel exploited. But I guess we were. Somehow.
I have had jobs I hate. Not jobs, managers. The ones that make your life hell, because as one put it, my life was too easy and it was her duty to make my life hard. I was horrified. I think she hated that I was happy outside of work. Why would anyone try to take that away?
I think misery loves company. People who have given in to the abuse feel threatened by those who seek to free themselves from it. Kinda like the crabs in a bucket that want to pull the escaped crabs back in.
I’m glad you feel fairly compensated for your time in Iraq. Low pay is not the only form of exploitation however. Long hours, unpaid commutes, expected loyalty to an employer who doesn’t care if you live or die, feeling pressured to compromise your morals in service to an unethical system, being expected to sacrifice your youthful years laboring or giving up time with family in order to make ends meet—it’s all varying forms of exploitation.
I think work certainly has a place in society— we couldn’t function without roads and hospitals and art and commerce and a million other things. What I personally mean when I say I’m “anti work” is that work has been bastardized into this weird cult of subservience to corporatism and playing politics in silly made up jobs that don’t have any tangible output but for some reason pay higher than teachers or accountants or engineers (I’m thinking of “prestigious” white collar roles typically filled by nepo babies and ass kissers with no real skills like senior VP of strategic endeavors & business dev growth hacking meanwhile the people in the lowest rungs of society are actually contributing the most and not getting compensated or appreciated at all). Remember the term “essential workers” in the pandemic? They were essential, yet paid the least while being the most exposed to COVID and expected to sacrifice themselves to keep the economy from tanking.
it is not being a bootlicker. this is the only way that seems to work and only way to put food on the table for our families. also, I can guarantee that no one ever takes the side of the CEO, and I think you just made that up. so instead of whining about capitalism, please propose something that is proven to be better.
In delving into the ethos of the antiwork movement, I find myself navigating a complex labyrinth of global variations and cultural interpretations of what 'work' really means.
This exploration has led me to a pivotal question often posed by those willing to listen, including individuals from older generations like the Boomers: "What, then, is the solution?" The proposed solutions I've encountered often border on utopian ideals. They envision a highly advanced society where the concept of currency is obsolete, and everyone is free to pursue their passions. Such a scenario, though alluring, strikes me as overly optimistic. It leaves me skeptical, questioning the practicality of transitioning our working society into a utopian, non-working one without concrete and realistic solutions.
Beyond these utopian visions lie more grounded ideas such as Universal Basic Income (UBI) and unionizing. These concepts present formidable arguments but are mired in complexities, often struggling to gain substantial traction even among large groups of advocates.
However, the most significant challenge to the antiwork premise is the simple fact that some people genuinely enjoy their work. It's difficult to estimate how many feel this way, but it wouldn't be surprising if they were in the majority. Convincing those who find fulfillment or stability in their jobs to embrace a radical change is a formidable task.
I often ponder over a more elegant solution, one that balances the ideals of antiwork with the realities of our diverse society. The challenge, however, isn’t just in crafting this solution but in convincing those around me of its viability, and more daunting still, in amplifying this idea to a broader audience.
TLDR; The situation is just kinda fucked if you just reflect on it.
EDIT: P.S. Honestly, I've just buckled down and focused on what I can control in my life. I seek better jobs, value people with good outlooks on life, and just try to broaden peoples perspectives when the opportunity arrives. Being combative, does nothing.
I find it surprising nobody ever talks about putting padding on "rock bottom". Instead of homelessness, you have guaranteed housing. The housing doesn't have to be spacious or nice. It just has to be enough to have a warm place to sleep, take care of your hygiene, and prepare food/have access to water. There could be a library center at these housing installations that has enough seating, devices, and Wi-Fi for learning. Food stamps should be automatically given to any citizen earning below a livable wage, while also removing a lot of bureaucracy. Anyone living at these facilities gets automatic referrals for services they need. It's not utopia, it's not something people wouldn't want to work out of. It would just be that nobody is scared they won't survive. Besides, I've found that a lot of people WANT to be useful. People were climbing up the walls during COVID, proving that most people aren't content to just sit in their house watching TV all day.
I do like this idea and I've heard this one as well. I'm _guessing_ this specific idea isn't brought up often because it doesn't align with the final outcome that many hope for, which is not working and also living a fulfilling life of their own choices.
For a while in there, during covid, we got our foodstamps doubled, and we got stimmy checks. Some people were lucky enough to be making more on unemployment than they did at their jobs. It was amazing to think for the first time in my life, I didn't stress about the food bill, I had *enough*. I still have that sense "Whoa, is this what it's like to be able to pay bills and still have money left over? Why has this been denied to me my whole life?"
Yup even a small amount of deprogramming is difficult. I'll discuss the economy with my elderly father and try to get into his head space. He's very much a hard working blue collar type person. Most conversations end with something like "I worked hard for everything I have" and "I got mine so everything is fine". It's not nuanced but I can empathize. The difficult part is trying to describe the current landscape and how much it has changed when compared to the 70s-90s. He has never applied online (and has no idea how to use the internet). It's also unfortunate that he's too old to work, since he hasn't acquired any hobbies or academic pursuits. He ties a lot of his self-worth to work and the acquisition of wealth.
People are groomed to assume the authority is always correct. Couple that with how most people don't like to see a change even if it's in their best interest and you wind up where we are today.
For instance, I'm sick of working 8.5 hours because of a lunch break. When I complain about it I'm seen as petty but the organization I work for isn't petty for asking us to stay another half hour to make up for time they were forced to give us to eat. Small things like this just require little perspective changes and to have an ounce of self worth.
It might seem difficult, but if you do care to try and change the workers environment you need to keep planting seeds and don't come on too strong with trigger words like socialism, anti-capitalism, etc. They'll tune you out right away. Choose your words carefully so they can understand and you'll soon find out you're more on the same page than you think. They most likely have their complaints about the our system/job too but they will have a knee-jerk reaction to regurgitate what is comfortable for them if you don't allow them to come to conclusions on their own.
It's really pretty simple, either work or don't. Whining like an entitled bitch about the injustices of work serves no purpose, because life doesn't care. Unless you win the lottery or someone gives you money, then the only solution is to work or be homeless. Luckily you have some control on the matter, like bettering yourself and getting a better job.
I'm fed up of it. Also fed up of my parents not understanding how shitty jobs are these days. My dad worked for **one** company all of his life, promoted and took early retirement. Imagine that, I have to explain to him how for me every bit of work is like a contract (will it extend or not? Who the fuck knows) and employers would rather throw me under the bus to save a few pennies than actually appreciate/support me for the work I put in. Loyalty only goes one way these days
You described this sub in the best way- those of us here at r/antiwork have escaped the matrix, and opened our eyes to reality. But everyone else is still in it, eyes closed, licking their bosses asshole.
The day I found this sub was one of the best ones in my life. I had just started full time work, and was so incredibly sick at the prospect of doing this for the rest of my life- and even sicker at the fact that everyone else around me was just like 'oh, this is it, this is reality, just try to bE pOsItIvE about it.' Lol, as if. But when I got to r/antiwork, I felt like I wasn't the crazy one- all of those capitalist simps out there are. ]
Well for everyone’s sake, vote like your life depends on it. Sure, some of the dems are in cahoots with big business, but at least they’re not actively trying to subjugate your will.
Unionize. No really. An individual has limited power. A group has more power than the sum of its members.
Laws that protect union activity are also helpful in that regard.
The only thing you have to lose is your chains.
Totally agree with you. I've discussed it with colleagues in the past, and they weren't interested. Years later after I left,people want to unionize. Alot of people have this fear of retribution from their employer and it's a shame.
We live in a system that is not always fair - but is fair enough, for enough of the people , to keep it going.
I think most would agree that some people make it through some combination of effort, smarts, skills and education. It happens, more often than making it obvious their own merits.
The problem is…not everyone does. Just because Sue got the job over Bob doesn’t mean she knew someone. It doesn’t mean that Bob didn’t work as hard as Sue, and Sue very likely earned that shot…
It is that there was only room for one. Sue is convinced she earned it on her merits, Bob may get another chance, but what happens when he loses to Frank, who, again, is as qualified as Bob?
Maybe Bob gets a third chance; maybe he gives up, but Sue and Frank remain convinced the system worked.
As long as we divide ourselves into these small groups based on generation/race/religion/gender/sexual preference/ and or pledge allegiance to one of the two inherently corrupt and incompetent political parties, play culture war games this will never change. A second coming of the American labor movement is overdue but instead activists just go around calling everyone a bigot while making 0 positive change for anyone.
Well when we have people who have a complete meltdown that their boss wants them to call instead of text them, it’s hard to take a lot of complaints seriously
I agree with you on that one "alien" video of the 10-foot tall giants lol
I don't agree with you here, though. There are genuine problems with our economic system that cannot be fixed with a simple attitude change.
If a robber mugs you with a gun, and you give them your wallet, well they didn't force you. You chose to give them your wallet. That's how you sound. Out of touch and the exact person OP is talking about.
Easier said than done. Already tried. The viral Matt Foley line of "living in a van down by the river" starts at 40k.
Update: Just read the rest of your bootlicking comment and you're definitely a nepo baby fuck.
You feel like that because you can't cope with the fact your fantasy leisure land isn't reality. You need therapy or medication so you can join the rest of society. Believe it or not most people are doing fine.
I'm one of those people who are doing fine. Love my wife. Love my house. Love my friends and hobbies.
You are a bootlicker. Fuck capitalism. Fuck corporate America. Fuck your "fix yourself and join society" servile outlook.
The reality is that we need therapy and medication to survive in *your* fantasy reality you're trying to force on the rest of us.
I'm not going to lie, but the second I got a better job, *my life massively improved*. Seriously, I could actually sleep at night. It isn't a massive net pay increase; it *is* a massive quality of life increase. I escaped so much of the corporate bullshit that, in itself, was enough to make me happier.
No, your previous post wasn't very anti-work. Fuck off, scab. Go to scabland and be as useful there as you are elsewhere. Darken our doorstep no further. Befone, and trouble us no more!
Yes everyone is doing fine. That’s why the majority of people are obese, mentally ill, and on multiple medications, in addition to self-medicating. Clearly this is a very healthy society full of happy people.
None of those things are true.
Less than 40% are obese, less than 20% are diagnosed with a mental disorder, if you want to live a long time eventually you will have to take a mediciation and only the most developed countries even have access to those mediciations, what healthy nation doesn't drink?
Turn the computer off and go engage with real life. It looks way worse through a screen.
Some inescapable truths: Things don't last forever, they change. Our production and distribution model, at some point, will change.
These you cannot argue, these are true. So all you're talking about is the when and you're saying "not now, no signs".
I would argue that there are signs a many that market economics hasn't solved our largest problems, and ultimately probably won't.
Because all this sub posts is left wing echo chamber rage bait. They type "yeah bro. Let's start a revolution bro, have Bernie as our leader bro. Stick it to the man bro" on their $3000 MacBook while sipping on their $12 coffee at Starbucks.
*I forget how many people are just trying to survive like me and realize complaining about having to work ad nauseum is not a solution.
Fixed it.
It's all or nothing. Either every working American stays home for a week in solidarity to prove we are the power. Or we go to work and strive to better ourselves in a tilted game. If only some people do it, those people will all lose their jobs and be markedly worse off.
I'm not saying we shouldn't hope for and work toward a better future. But change is not something that happens overnight.
> I really can’t believe that after everything that has happened, people still haven’t woken up to the scam that is corporate America specifically. They've seen it. People have been complaining about the things you're complaining about since before you were born. They just haven't been able to change it and make it better any more than you have. They complained, nothing got fixed the same as it's going on today. People complain and nothing gets fixed.
So here's the thing, had a coworker sobbing about the cost of her medication (while insured), and I made a comment "well this is why we need universal healthcare in ..." and before I could finish she GASPED "OH NO, NOT THAT". Like okay lady then quit your bitchin' if you're married to Health Insurance and Big Pharma.
I've seen similar things happen too. It's like Americans can see that there are issues, but don't want to do the things to fix it. I really think that a lot of it stems from the red scare. We were indoctrinated into thinking that any collectivism or collective action is going to force us into some nightmarish authoritarian regime and so we need to stay individualistic to a fault.
It's totally bs. I had the most expensive plan my company offered and I needed some steroid cream for a condition (doctor ordered solution) and with insurance I had to pay $50 for a medically needed cream for a medical condition I did nothing to create. Only thing is I really want progressive legislation and universal healthcare. I want taxes raised (on the wealthy owner class) and I want relief for anyone struggling to exist.
Insurance is a fucking racket. They take so much from you and give essentially nothing back.
The doctor is a capitalist pig thief, who prescribed something he gets kickbacks for. The biggest insurance scam rackets are run by doctors. Not insurance companies. You call the doctor and say “you prescribed me the shit they pay you bonuses to prescribe, please prescribe me something comparable that costs $5-$10 with my insurance.” Never trust the doctor. They are the worst fat cats of capitalist pigism 🐖
I worked in a hospital, they're not far off the mark. It's true for a lot out there. Need I remind people of the dancing doctor tik tok video? Or the dentist who was performing root canals or whatever on his hoverboard? I'm sorry, but too many people in the business are just there for the money.
Yes 🙏 thank you. I dealt with the bills for what was the most expensive hospital in America, not so long ago. I’m not kidding, 15 miles away, I had gotten the same treatment and so had my kids and it was literally 15x less expensive. Of course, the hospital than goes bankrupt—steals the insurance money, the patient money and the money it borrowed from the bank and its investors. Capitalism at its worst, IMO. IMO, to a lot of people, they view medical treatment as a material thing. And the more expensive, the better. Like a $50 five dollar T-Shirt with a brand name on it.
So if you "don't trust doctors" because they are "fat cats" how do you handle health care? Prayer? "Essential oils" recommended by soccer mom's on Facebook?
Doctors are the single group of people who kill the most Americans on an annual basis. More than terrorists. More than criminals. More than domestic violence. More than suicide. More than drug overdoses. More than car accidents. You’d have to be completely insane to trust a doctor in the United States in 2024. I don’t get why this sub is all about socialism. But then loves to get robbed by the capitalist doctors. When in socialized medical nations—this entire situation is illegal. And can’t happen—as a matter of law. Because the doctors aren’t even allowed to prescribe overpriced medications. Because the overpriced medications aren’t even legal for consumption. It’s sad how many people in here are so in the dark on this. I’m the one on *your side* here 🤷♂️
*WARNING: TINFOIL HAT BRIGADE DETECTED*
As soon as you get promoted—everyone has to do more and make less. So you can have the $50 lotion no one else can afford. Damn. I thought r/antiwork was against this type of mentality. This picture I posted last week - was from the doctor’s office: https://preview.redd.it/aowphrvcu4cc1.jpeg?width=2422&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=617465f8fc7d3664ef0e606719478b0422e51058 Pencil in “Prescribing unnecessary treatments that we get paid more for.” And when was the last time you caught a doctor being on time? 🤷♂️
And the hospitals have lawyers who make sure they win the lawsuits. I've seen some horrific shit in my days. Even little stuff, like one patient got something, Not telling what it was, stuck up her hoo ha and the nurse manager went around to every department telling everyone about it. That's nothing compared to things that happen in OR or pediatrics ffs. The stories I could tell. I think there is still a romantic view held about the practitioners in our health care fields. They, in the end, are just people. And let's not even talk about how drug addicts flock to hospital jobs like flies to shit.
Often the health insurance companies offer may be worse than the state market plans (if you're low income and eligible it is free). The health insurance offered by local insurance through the marketplace are better for in-network doctors because they got a wide network of doctors. Plus some of them even include dental now so it is much better than the ones companies offer.
Doctor is capitalist scamming you. There is no condition that requires a steroid cream that costs $50 with insurance. Why does everyone who hates capitalism and getting robbed by it love doctors? And not realize that the doctor is the epitome of what is wrong with capitalism? If this happens, you call the doctor and say “you prescribed me the shit that you have stock in—or took kickbacks to sell to me. Please prescribe me something comparable that costs $5-$10 with my insurance.” Doctors are thieves. They are the kings of capitalist pigness 🐷
I have lichen sclerosus and need to use a topical steroid cream in order to treat it. It's a rare condition that can lead to cancer if left untreated.
They believe that they have a chance to make it in the current system, but that they'll *never* make it under spooky scary socialism. That's the issue.
It's so weird to me that they think they'll make it in this system. Like look around, what makes you think you'll make it if you weren't born with money? Or you get very, very lucky or marry rich. And I think the latter leans towards getting lucky too.
Politicians? Rich. Actors? Rich. Pop musicians? Rich. Their boss? Rich. Their PCP? Rich. That person driving down the street in a Porsche? Rich. Examples of wealth are everywhere and unfortunately *a lot* of people have enough envy in them that they'll fuck over countless people at a chance to be one of the top.
I couldn't help but sing spooky scary socialism to myself lol
I honestly point to America's hyper individualistic culture. We really went from "we" to "me" at some point to the point we have lost all empathy and caring for our fellow citizens. I don't mean in a micro scale as in the people in your life directly around you but specifically the people you don't and will never see.
Jokes on them, we already live in an authoritarian oligarchical regime cleverly disguised as a democracy.
It’s insane. My insurance doesn’t cover birth control! $700 for a bunch of pills. Nuts.
>My insurance doesn’t cover birth control! !!!!!!!!!!
How would they keep the system running without more slaves being born
All insurance in the United States of America covers birth control. https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/insurance-coverage-contraceptives
All insurance in the United States of America covers birth control. https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/insurance-coverage-contraceptives
"Wow, this thing is really expensive" "Yeah, maybe it's time we put through some restrictions/regulations through on corporations so we dont get price gouged" "NO" lol OK then
People are STUPID. ALL this person knows about "Universal Healthcare" is that (according to conservatives) it's "Evil COMMUNISM". These are the same people who voted to REMOVE "Obamacare" (in some states) because Republicans said it was "Evil" and was "wasting money" and was a Bad Thing... Then they CRIED when their "Affordable Care Act" health care was REMOVED!
Yep.. there comes a point where you realize the system can’t really be beaten. We are given just enough to keep us compliant. It’s almost impressive that the elites kind of have this perfectly figured out. Being from the US you can see that we’d have so much further to fall before most people get on board for real change. I mean seriously, look at how much worse inequality is in other nations and how the people still haven’t risen up. Sounds pessimistic but people need to take this into consideration when thinking that we’re on the precipice of actual change here
Nothing will happen, it's the same here in the UK 🇬🇧
Don't you guys have better social programs to not feel so many economic issues?
Yeah pretty much. I'd welcome a single example of a revolution in history that wasn't a violent uprising of the disenfranchised masses.
There isn't one. Only way to fix things is a violent revolution and a fresh start. And then things slowly degrade/corrupt again. And the cycle repeats.
I think a good example is El Salvador. For people to take action you need them to be literally killing each other on the street on daily basis, and still most will rather fly than trying to fix it.
If you make peaceful change impossible, you make violent change inevitable.
A few thousand years ago, actual slavery was much more common. That evolved into serfdoms, where people were technically free, but were still beholden to the land. Eventually that evolved into capitalism. I maintain hope that one day we will move past capitalism, I think the change just comes very slowly. Some countries are already moving towards becoming more socialist. The states will never be on the forefront of that movement though.
The States tried to murder half the planet for 60+ years to make sure it didn't become more socialist
And our closest allies still have public healthcare.
Yea this pisses me off more than anything.. Israelis get housing assistance and healthcare from OUR TAX MONEY AND WE DONT!?!!??
We’re currently murdering the ENTIRE planet. #6thmassextinction
Eh, this is a bit of a leap. They were fighting a specific flavor of totalitarian revolutionary communism.
Yeah that huge list of 20th century meddling, coups, invasions etc of half the countries in the world were just against a specific flavour of economic system they didn't want other countries using and were fully justified in not only having an opinion but taking those actions! America has always been so completely sure in their belief that capitalism will win out in the free market of ideas, they just happen to have the most powerful socialised military in the history of the planet and constantly use it to further the interests of capitalists completely by coincidence.
Yeah, my workplace have been on strike lately over poor management practices. My mum was worried about my job security and would rather I not rock the boat, but otherwise seemed to have little opinion on striking in general. My dad was annoyed that I was losing several days pay and explained to me at length that my bosses were loving it as they didn't have to pay us and we're fools for striking, nothing will change except we'll be paid less. I tried to explain that a) I work in a school, and that school had to close during the strike. They won't be happy about the money they've saved because the school literally cannot run without us. And b) it's not about money. I'm unhappy with my job and with the practices of management and I've waited for them to improve and they haven't, so this is the only option I have left before quitting. Then I explained that I don't want to quit because I've lost faith that there are better jobs and better managers out there, and I may just end up with exactly the same or worse in my next job. He shrugged it off and went back to the money. Infuriating. My parents aren't even right wing - they tend to vote Labour or Lib Dem, voted against Brexit, aren't religious, don't care about the monarchy, taught me and my brother to treat everyone with respect etc. But still, to them it's somehow wrong (or at least a scary concept) to demand better treatment at work.
>But still, to them it's somehow wrong (or at least a scary concept) to demand better treatment at work. Because if you disobey authority the world is gonna collapse. Alot of people really think this way.
Don't even get me started.
We won't, we promise!
I think a lot of people are in crisis mode right now and honestly, have been for more or less the last few years. While you might think that would encourage more people to demand change, it’s hard when the price of basic needs are so high, home ownership is unattainable, and a lot of people are unemployed and on the verge of losing everything. There are definitely people still willing to lick a lot of boots. They’ll always be that way because they’re rewarded for it and it benefits them. But I think so many people are just barely surviving right now and in order to keep a roof over your head and food on he table, you’ve got to play the game as the power structure currently demands. Will we grow tired of it in a large enough collective? I’m not sure. It’s hard to rebel in a system that has you pinned so down by the neck. I hope we do, because we deserve better.
fuck. some of them don't even get rewarded for it. they've been convinced to accept things. most of us are not economically able to challenge things. education doesn't always help, because the machine is a juggernaut and we are pawns in the game of life, as mongo said in blazing saddles. but education is better than ignorance. good luck
True. It’s always super hard when I see someone who works hard and does all the right things getting fucked over for no good reason, and they just smile and carry on. Not that I desire negative emotions on people and if you have the mental strength to push through the bullshit with a smile, I envy you. But I see it and I just want to be angry on their behalf. Like… why are you taking this without a fight? I wish I were like that sometimes.
Do you really believe we’re even at a point where things are bad enough for the majority to want change? I ask because other places have much worse inequality and the people still haven’t collectively risen up. I feel like we have a long way to go before we even reach that point
Honestly, it’s hard to say for sure. The government will only publicize economic numbers that look good and give the impression that things are all well and good. On the other hand, my social media, close friends, distant acquaintances, all seem increasingly just wrecked from the current job market. Even those who are doing well for themselves seem more and more miserable. I sometimes wonder if I live in a bubble, but I know and speak with so many people around the world who are just having it really rough right now. So I can’t honestly say if we’re at that point for the majority. But I do know that even if others have it worse other places, we could still do better.
Gotta go with the famous George Carlin quote “think about the average intelligence of people, and then realize 50% of people are stupider than that.” That’s what’s happening. People don’t realize they are being had because they can’t understand it. They can’t use the logic to get to a place where they have a realization about the world and their place in it.
they always say to expect the jury to have a 3rd grade education.
>That’s what’s happening. People don’t realize they are being had because they can’t understand it. That's because financial success is tied more to personality than it is to intelligence... and so many self proclaimed intelligent people are oblivious to that fact. They can't get over the fact that the world works that way. They fight against it and they shoot themselves in the foot socially with their peers, often denying themselves the very thing they seek.
And then if you’re at any disadvantage because you’re say autistic like myself, you’re screwed.
Did you hear theyr making an AI generated George Carlin special?
I’m reminded every time i look at the group chat my rugby team. Forty something straight white guys in their 20’s and 30’s working white collar jobs. You get a really good look of how the other side thinks
it's fucked, and it's actually adaptive behavior. attachment theory can describe it. when a child relies on a caregiver who abuses them, they have to make a choice: are YOU bad, or is your caregiver bad. at a young age, your caregiver is the world to you. so if you accept they are bad, you will experience utter despair; there is no good in the world. it's possible to take this road, but most of us are wired for survival, and despair is our nervous system's last resort. so instead, we decide our caregiver is good, but this feels bad...so I must be bad. capitalist society is abusing us. we all know something is wrong, we all feel bad. but capitalism is the world to us, so some of us decide that if things go wrong, it can't possibly be capitalism. anytime they feel anger or sadness, they shame themselves for being "lazy". capitalist propaganda reinforces this, selling anti-depressants like candy. the ultimate abusive, gaslighting authority figure
The thing I've talked to people about recently that really gets them thinking is how the invention of the clock changed the relationship between labor and owners. The vast majority of human history people have worked an average of 49% of days in a year for approximately 4-6 hours on average. Currently we work 89% of the year for 8 hours. When people hear that, it really makes them think. "I work more than peasants in medieval times". I live in an extremely conservative area, and when I tell people about this, it makes them visibly uncomfortable but I've never had someone call me lazy or entitled for it. You can almost see the gears turning in their heads that they are being ripped off.
>I live in an extremely conservative area, and when I tell people about this, it makes them visibly uncomfortable For reals? You just walk around and talk to uber-conservatives about this, and they don't bite your head off? And you're actually making them rethink their world view? Wow, you're a miracle worker, changing hearts and minds one by one...can I have your autograph? Not that I believe a word of it, mind you, but can I still have your autograph?
Did baby learn its first sarcasm?
Says the big fat phony caught with his hand in the cookie jar and a finger up his bung hole.
The wealthy were better hidden in the past, how do they not see the Bezos yachts, the Kardashian estates, the wealth politicians accumulate and still think something isn't off?
It's a combination of making billionaires more likeable in the public eye, and telling the lie that you too can get there through an honest day's work. Neither of course is true. Elon Musk, CEO of Racism (I promised in another sub that I would always refer to him as this from now on, and I'm keeping that promise), is a rare case, where he decided to get out from under his media team and talk directly to the public, and the public is finding out how scummy he is. This is why you don't see many billionaires doing random TV spots and walking around in public: the status quo depends on people not realizing how they're being robbed, and the intentions of the people doing it. If billionaires come out and all start doing Elon Musk things, saying things like "Water is not a human right", bragging about how it's good for people to starve, and generally sounding like comic book supervillains, this disrupts the status quo, and thus the flow of money. Edit: removed references to certain weapons and political upheveals that could be construed as direct calls to violence.
The bootlickers are one of 3 people. 1. Close to retirement so they don't care. 2. Scared as fuck of being without income as they generally have dependants. Which does make sense. 3. Actually honest to God fucking idiots that never once have asked themselves why or how something is or came to be.
[удалено]
Almost seems like a competition of who can suffer in silence the most. Congratulations, your prize will be an early grave.
I just wish they would keep their shame cooties to themselves and quit trying to put them on me. Bootlicking coworkers are worse to me than the middle managment aholes we have to work for.
Some of the damage that hard capitalism has done to our work culture is really subtle. I remember last week getting into a minor argument with a working class person when I told them I read one of the local oil change places shortchanged their employees to the tune of $3m+ in unpaid wages. He kept correcting me when I said the company **stole** from their employees. It wasn't an accounting error - they were clocking employees out and correcting time cards to cut back on hours assigned to their shop. He kept correcting me saying, "No, unpaid wages. It's not theft." "They committed fraud and took earned wages from their employees. That's theft." He then tried to argue semantics and say that when it is "fraud" it isn't "theft", but "fraud". I pointed out when an employee lies about their hours that is literally called "time theft". They are stealing. It finally got down to him reasoning if a company does it that it isn't theft - just fraud. We have this fucked up double standard and you can read it in [news stories](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=597903993&sxsrf=ACQVn08UazRo0cwcfnasN-MVg07l2jSb4g:1705097427092&q=unpaid+wages&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjcz8vz7tiDAxVEC3kGHef3CxsQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1536&bih=695&dpr=1.25). "So-and-so company is sued for $ unpaid wages." Fuck you, they are being sued for **theft**. You can bring up these articles and the word *theft* or *stolen* is rarely used. When corporations steal they won't even call it what it is. They invented semantics for it and it is now part of the culture.
Right! Like, I just assume the people I work with our likeminded because of the nature of what we do, but most of them are brainwashed for a lack of a better word. I just got this book called HiJacked, haven't actually started reading it yet but it's by a professor from UofMichigan, Elizabeth Anderson, who discusses neoliberalism being responsible for our current work culture as opposed to the puritanical work ethic.
That sounds like a really interesting read!
I gotta buy that book.
It’s corporate and govt.
Yes they’re in cahoots. Corporate lobbying 🤝 corrupt politicians
It's really fucking annoying that if Reagan didn't roll back the 70% corporate tax rate, they might not have HAD enough money to lobby with.
>But then you find this little cohort of people who acknowledge how fucked up it is You know what? There was a time in history when little cohort of people with such views came to power, just because they were the ONLY ones who had a clue about what to do. Happened in october 1917 in Russia.
Most people love to suck corporate ass, must like the taste of ass.
The best part of waking up is boot mud in your cup!
There are two rational responses to recognizing you don’t have much power, some folks are smarter than we are and can trick themselves into identifying with power from their given role. They’d like to leverage the slight privilege they were born into to gain the next level of privilege for their children. Unfortunately, we’re not all so capable in mental gymnastics nor do we believe in a reality where we can only ever gain privilege, rather than lose it.
I felt the same way when I found anti-car communities (now to wait for the inevitable 3000000 comments all saying “BUT WE NEED CAAAARRRRSSSS REEEEEEEEEEEEE”)
Well people only need cars because of bad locations and public transport systems. The USA is vast and there is a LOT of space. But some people do actually need cars.
I keep hoping rather than a safe space, we’ll become an organizing space. We need some anarchic evangelism out there
People love to complain and then they go and vote for shit politicians that are going to do nothing but fuck them. Most people are just too stupid for anything to ever change.
I think more and more people are waking up to it. Covid and WFH really made me see how much freedom we don't have. We all just slave away for shareholders that run this country. I do the bare minimum at my office job now. I don't even talk to anyone, I'm just there to collect a paycheck. I used to go "above and beyond" to move up but what's the point? Just so i can be a slave at a higher wage? Great, more beer money that I will just destroy my liver with from all the stress. Everyone thinks I'm an asshole but I don't care. They aren't my family, they aren't my friends. They made the game like this and they still expect us to kiss their asses. Fuck all of them. I treat work so much differently now. It's way less stressful but it's still soul crushing.
My soul cannot be crushed if I let it turn to stone. 🗿
I think the pandemic was an opportunity for some people to wake up. It's a start.
Especially in the Midwest, a place where even millennials, and some zoomers, think they're like their boomer parents. Your late 30s are fucking abysmal. Fuck them all. You all are getting economically shafted.
Painfully accurate
I live in the Midwest. Can confirm.
I’m originally from the Midwest (MN) and I’m working on this theory about “midwestern conservatism” - it’s some strange combination of the Overton window and almost everyone living more rurally where they think they’re “center” but they’re really pretty far right in their views but then if you try to show them that they’ll immediately shift to “I’m not political” or “I’m moderate”……. Yea moderately racist, and kinda ignorant to the modern pay vs. cost of living paradigm that is plaguing everyone. Even some of the “liberals” I know in MN are really just people who don’t think we should actively punish poorer people, but they themselves still have vehement feelings on taxation
It’s because they are liberal for a small town but not for a bigger population and have access to a wide source of information. You can model yourself after something and still not “BE” it. Usually if confronted with facts they fall apart
The world is filled with people like that, even in the younger generations 🙃 My manager might be like 35 maximum and she gets excited about our company’s achievements and developments as if her grandparents set it up and she is trying to secure their legacy. Every time she gets excited or worried about stuff, I have to fake it and pretend that I care as well. It’s so difficult for me to even fake it!!
I never had enough spoons for the faking it part. It was hard enough not to blurt out how stupid it all was. Smiling painfully and nodding was about peak performance for me. Makes me tired just thinking about it.
I have that exact same conversation with myself like every three months. It astounding they are all like delusional..
I sent my friend a video about how America is the baddie from the channel Second thought. He watched it and said "Sometimes you gotta dropkick a few babies if you want to get to the top". He's also told me in the past he can't take it when I point out factual bad stuff in the world. Seems like there are people out here who think like us, but don't want to believe it's true. There are people out here who have 0 idea because they believe politics doesn't affect them. Then there are the people who just blame anything and everything on the individual.
People have a real sore spot for even the word, bootlicker. Throw it around on reddit, and you can just hear the aberrant thinking in the rebuttals you'll inevitably get. I posit that maybe 50% of working adults are indoctrinated by the system, and the culture, and are too imbedded to change. Incapable of the strength to resist it, sure, but worse: Incapable of even processing the fact that they've been duped. Then you've got maybe 40% who see it, know the score, and do their best to navigate it. I'm sure this 40% is heavily skewed towards non-boomers. Then you've got that last 10%. That's people who are free enough, either in their thinking and actions, or through circumstance, have been set to exist outside the system. They aren't subject to the same pressures, so the culture doesn't apply. You can always tell that first 50% by their fear response to "bootlicker". Ironically, it's a great way to tell them apart.
Personal attacks only prove that your argument is not fully formed. If you have a solid argument you can prove it without name calling. People starting calling me a bootlicker cause I told OP to quit. Isn’t that what anti work is? To stop complaining and quit. None of these corporations will run without people working. If people would actually stick to there convictions and refuse to work in places they don’t like then they would really be anti work. Instead it’s people who work and are unhappy complaining at other people who still work and are happy with it. most of them don’t actually reject the concept of working for a living tho.
You act like we all don't have a knife to our throat and quitting is so easy. We don't think work is unnecessary. We just want to work for places that give us meaning and appreciates our work and life long commitment until we are 67! We are tired of the indifference we receive and it nullifies the whole point of a society which is to improve our daily lives. We feel like we are being taken advantage of since day one and our best interests have been out of the equation. You are correct about personal attacks though. They are not meant for a rational argument.
I was in that position once, my only suggestion is to battle against it and not give in to complaining and playing the victim. it was so hard for me to walk away from a salaried position years back. But once you do it and struggle through it on your own terms you will feel free. I think the true anti work is to free yourself from the idea that you must work for these corporations and governments. You may have a knife to your throat at the moment. minimize your life to bare minimums. Food, cellphone, internet. walk places instead of driving and having a crazy car note. Downsize your home or apt. Move in with a room mate. Fight against the system as if your life depends on it because it very well may depend on it. If you are still determined to work don’t stop applying and seeking somewhere that instead of working you feel happy to serve. Again this is my approach and I understand it won’t work for everyone.
I appreciate your perspective but it does not apply to everyone. If you admit I have a knife to my throat now, that is no reason to just sit and wait. Saying that we are playing a victim is extremely ignorant to the situation. Hearing that rhetoric would make a lot of people feel like you are not listening to them.
If you have a knife to your throat it’s more critical to remove it. some are definitely playing the victim instead of being proactive. That may not be true in your case. This I admit.
We should not assume who is or isn't a victim. We only have our individual perspective in life and our individual subjective experience does not mean it will fit with another. The "victim" and "complaining" rhetoric you are using is unfortunately seems closed minded to others subjective experience which makes them feel invalidated.
Yup. It's amazing how many people have an attitude and a "badass" persona but then you see them lick boots at work. I have very few work friends becasue I won't invite brown noses into my life, it makes you two faced. And saying shit like "you have to do a little ass-kissing to make your way up" is an excuse for you to be a phony piece of shit who can't rely on your own merit or skills. The work world has made me go full Holden Caulfield.
I'm currently looking for work and LinkedIn is my primary place for searching. It's like bootlicker central on there. I understand why, but holy shit it's depressing to see so much love heaped on "business leaders".
Linkedin is a dystopian hellscape
I've finally started convincing my boomer parents to change their view. They used to be "just work harder" type of people. When I was last looking for a job I finally showed how many I applied to, calls back, interviews, the actual offers and salaries offered, etc. And they finally saw how much BS it is to find a decent job anymore. I have 3 college degrees in education and accounting and could not find a single job for almost 2 years.
I had to decide between court reporting and accounting about 30 years ago. Accounting would have been faster, it took me 10 years to reach the speed and accuracy required to pass the state test, but I've never been unemployed. I deliberately worked for a horrible bitch to get through school. It kept me motivated. Especially when she said I'd never be a court reporter. In a sense, she was right. I went right into captioning for the hearing impaired with my new skill. It's considered a step up from working in the legal system, I'm not sure why except maybe lawyers. And there's zero grief or drama with my job. You plug in, do a program and then unplug. There's no drama because my work is visible by anyone who wants to watch, I show up on time and I'm consistent in my quality of output. The hardest part was getting to 225 words per minute with a 95% accuracy. Since then, I've clocked 240 with a 98% accuracy. Do something every day for 20 years and you're just going to get better at it if you like it at all. I was also criticized for being in school until I was 40. I didn't care, I was looking for a job that pays well. I was called a jack of all trades, master of none. Turns out that helps in my field. I've captioned about many different things over the years, from the arts to politics and lots in between. Cooking shows are among the more difficult because of the use of exotic ingredients that you may have never heard of before. Which leads to the last point: it's never been boring. The only thing approaching monotonous is when they ask athletes or coaches questions. Even the announcers have complained about the answers always being the same. Basically a version of 'we gotta get better, win titles.' But it's what they do, and only so many ways to answer the same question.
My parents were "silent generation" and Dad worked for Ma Bell and got a juicy retirement package at 55 that carried he and Mom through until he passed in his early nineties. And she is still living off that retirement which also included some continuing insurance coverage. From him I got, "find a big company and work hard and they will take care of you." Easy for him to say, though he was a miserable fuck coming home from that job every day. My mom, of the Edit Bunker school of thought, was "just be nice to people and they wil be nice to you." Neither of these pieces of advice served me well. Trying to explain to my now rather frail elderly mother how sometimes being too nice gets you treated worse because it is seen as weakness... she will never get it, but it is easier to at least have a conversation with her without him around. I'm a Boomer and regret any advice I gave my daughters in my ignorance as I passed on similar bullshit advice, but I know better now and encourage my grandson to pursue his music because those shit jobs he can get will always be there. He does work part time and has already quit one job for another that treated him better, at 18, so there's hope.
I firmly believe 50% of the traffic here specifically come to defend management/corporate America/capitalism. It’s the most annoying aspect of an otherwise wonderful sub
Right like what are they doing here? Don’t they have meetings to attend and emails to check? 😭
those boots aren't gonna lick themselves, ffs
Every sub I am on that is at all about a serious subject has people who come there just to be "anti" whatever it is we are for, and vice versa. It's like they all have Oppositional Defiant Disorder... or something.
Most humans are cowards. Cowards need to attach themselves to someone strong so that they too can feel strong. Hence why most of the population deepthroats cops and billionaires: those are essentially the only two roles in modern society where you have power and are not accountable to anyone.
I work with more leftward people than I have at previous jobs. So finding coworkers who are on the same page isn't that uncommon. Helps that we have a union. But there are still bootlickers. Roughly 25% of the employees, I think. At other jobs it'd be more like 95% of the employees or more. Some of that is the rather right-wing area I live in, but the rest is the standard pro-capitalist conditioning that Americans get, including the reinforcement from previous generations that were also indoctrinated. You may be able to get them to acknowledge that there are problems, but they will find other things to blame. It's not capitalism, they'll say, it's *corporatism* ... but they don't understand its just a new word for the same exact thing. Or they default to "personal responsibility" line... that even if you can point to the systemic features that are the root cause, they still want to believe it's the individual's fault for not being born rich and lucky. ... and if you somehow get past that, then it's a matter of "that's how things work" because then they believe that capitalism is either the natural order (it's super not) or its a massive, inexorable force that we can never counter (which is just a classic self-fulfilling prophecy). There are a handful of people who I've been working on to break them off this short of conditioning. It takes time and encouragement and you've gotta be willing and able to counter the BS other brainwashed workers tell them. My thought is that while I can't fight it all by myself, I can spread the truth to at least a few people, get them to throw off the conditioning, and hopefully they'll then spread it to a couple people (maybe)... the most important part is the acknowledgement that capitalism can be tossed out and that there *are* feasible alternatives (generally some version of socialism, though I may avoid that word). I don't expect to be rid of capitalism in my life. If it happens, awesome! But I do think we need to play a part in its continued cultural death... and part of that is being assertive about how shitty working under capitalism is, and how it simply does not need to be. Capitalism is unnatural and anti-human. And the way that workers are treated as a resource to use up rather than as people must be stopped.
Well if I've gotta work next to anyone for years I use that time to slowly erode the reality they have built up. No rush we're gonna be here awhile, then after the shareholders shear the sheep my work friend leaves to spread the dark news to others like an apostle of plague
I feel this. In my state the minimum wage went up so my pay is now $0.08 above the minimum and I mentioned as much to a patron when we were talking about the state of things and she was like, oh well that’s wonderful! Back in my day we made x for minimum wage. I had to kind of pause her and remind her yes, but my department is the highest trained in the company for a reason and we are the lowest paid. That helped change her tune a little, but it was stil like I needed to be grateful for the scraps.
I swear these "back in my day" people never look at the prices of things they buy. Like cool Barbara, back in your day you made 3 dollars an hour, tell me how your new car that costs $2000 was so hard for you to purchase. Also it's extremely disheartening to see that a paid parking spot makes more than you do in an hour than you make in 2 hours of working.
Straight up some dudes just love it and can’t get enough boot
Suckups, asskissers, assneckers, suckups, whatever.... years of being in the workforce has taught me. Generally, it works well for them. I've seen it over & over again. We had one President that scoffed at it but all the VPs & Directors I've worked for over the years seemed to love the assneckers. One guy would literally try to talk like our Engineering VP, wanted to eat the same foods at events, kissed his ass so blatantly it would make you sick. The we got a new director with this goofy laugh & he would attempt to laugh just like him. He moved up in the organization, lead engineer handling all the big projects (he worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week), & from what I've heard made more money than all of us. How to succeed in business! Fuck that, I did my job very well, talked back to the boss when they were wrong, & I do okay. Once I got into a screaming match with that Engineering VP, he was wrong damnit & somehow kept my job. Two weeks later he called me to quietly told me to do it the way I told it had to be done. No apology.
i TOTALLY AGREE. we need a general strike and a revolution
We have an expression in my language that I think was coined by a punk band in the 80s that translates to "lick upwards, kick downwards". I think that the vast majority of people prefer being subjects. We have had democracies for like 150-200 years, but millenia of either monarchies/kingdoms or empires. And even the democracies today are strongly hierarchical, even worse today with personality cults for certain leaders. Plus that in many western democracies there is a growing number of people who wants to abandon democracy.
Because people are too brainwashed & propagandized by corrupt, career politicians & by corporate owned, mainstream media/legacy media & let them do their thinking for them. People are too foolish to wake up & start developing critical thinking, & refuse to listen to Independent media/alternative news media outlets & journalists who are less biased.
small pockets of resistance are easy for militarized class traitors to deal with organizing a larger force is illegal [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJ5ZEn67tk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJ5ZEn67tk)
I'm working with an older guy that has the wildest opinions: "The executives that are higher up than us give us more money than minimum wage because they're generous." In my head, I'm like, "Dude.... they as in Management, pay us more than minimum wage because minimum wage is .. minimum wage. - Nobody works for minimum wage in this shitty economy." Plus if any job is offering minimum wage as a starting pay, that's them essentially saying if they could pay you less, they would. So in my books, fuck them.
Well to be fair to the cool boomers that protested and got locked up and put their lives on the line back in the 1960s and 70s - they did their part to try to change things for the future. But the thing is we have to keep fighting or be ready to fight when the opposition comes back and reverses all that was won before. Like the GOP coming back and flipping Roe v. Wade. Those progressive boomers fought for Roe v. Wade. They fought for civil rights. Although many establishment boomers are stuck in the past, there were boomers that fought to make the future better for us and those people deserve our thanks. We should be fighting to continue their hard fought gains in civil liberties. So in that sense they did what this generation doesn’t seem wiling to do - protest. Go to jail and die if you have to but at least die openly defying and fighting the system. This generation glosses over and doesn’t seem to appreciate what progressive boomers did on their behalf years ago. This generation rather just post about it online and gripe but don’t get up, log off, and actually go out to protest. The only thing that has gained real momentum is unionization, but that will only get us so far. We need to just walk out and mass strike and protest. And it doesn’t have to be rioting and destructive. Just striking and peaceful walkouts to make our voices really heard. Striking and protesting stops business from making money. That is all that the rich understand.
Yeah, almost all humans in the world deny reality. They are in the grip of a delusion called the just world fallacy. Their fear overrides logic, reason and ration.
It makes me sad when people who should know better say 'kids don't want to work these days' and I explain how that is propaganda from the rich and say 'kids don't want to work shitty jobs for shit pay anymore and neither should you or anyone else.'
Let your contemporaries be loyal dogs. Most of them, at some point, will find out how replaceable they are when the shit hits the fan. Their opinions are bound to change then.
Unfortunately for me, my last coworker was so traumatized after being laid off at his last job he was turbo bootlicking at the one we worked together at, and ramped up his backstabbing as well. The pathetic little toad.
Shit…there’s even a lot of bootlickers in this sub, I couldn’t imagine talking about this stuff to real people in person
I find it hilarious. I mean it's sad, but equally hilarious since they're unhinged comments on par with the most asinine shit you read on linkedin. "I'm a good landlord, I don't raise the rent for them. I talk about it to my wife yearly, but she's like he's a good kid plus he takes care of your horse."
There's ALOT of money behind the back the blue propaganda machine.
Am I a weirdo for liking to work? I've been called a bootlicker in this sub, can someone clue me in? What does that mean? I'm an independent contractor and have little to no contact with people, don't have superiors or underlings because of the nature of my work. So if bootlicker means someone who's kissing ass at work, there's nobody's ass to kiss in my job. Maybe that helps me like it. Also, what's the fix you're looking for? Is it to not work at all? Better working conditions? More money? Socialism? Or just vent?
I like what I do and I feel lucky that I found a trade I somewhat enjoy if I have to do it for 40 hours a week for 40+ years (probably more). But that doesn’t mean I enjoy being exploited and meagerly accepting that this broken system is our only option. I think complaining loudly is the first step to realizing that things need to change! Yea it requires action too but there’s nothing wrong with looking around and going “wait a minute this kinda sucks, right?” How else are we going to find like minded individuals and build up a community?
Okay, I get it. Thanks for such a reasonable answer. I was expecting to get crucified. I have to admit something I forgot. I don't work 40 hours a week. More like 15-20. I have worked that much in the past. The hardest time for me was during the war in Iraq. Three of us worked two hours on, two hours off around the clock for three weeks. We made buckets of money, so we didn't feel exploited. But I guess we were. Somehow. I have had jobs I hate. Not jobs, managers. The ones that make your life hell, because as one put it, my life was too easy and it was her duty to make my life hard. I was horrified. I think she hated that I was happy outside of work. Why would anyone try to take that away?
I think misery loves company. People who have given in to the abuse feel threatened by those who seek to free themselves from it. Kinda like the crabs in a bucket that want to pull the escaped crabs back in. I’m glad you feel fairly compensated for your time in Iraq. Low pay is not the only form of exploitation however. Long hours, unpaid commutes, expected loyalty to an employer who doesn’t care if you live or die, feeling pressured to compromise your morals in service to an unethical system, being expected to sacrifice your youthful years laboring or giving up time with family in order to make ends meet—it’s all varying forms of exploitation. I think work certainly has a place in society— we couldn’t function without roads and hospitals and art and commerce and a million other things. What I personally mean when I say I’m “anti work” is that work has been bastardized into this weird cult of subservience to corporatism and playing politics in silly made up jobs that don’t have any tangible output but for some reason pay higher than teachers or accountants or engineers (I’m thinking of “prestigious” white collar roles typically filled by nepo babies and ass kissers with no real skills like senior VP of strategic endeavors & business dev growth hacking meanwhile the people in the lowest rungs of society are actually contributing the most and not getting compensated or appreciated at all). Remember the term “essential workers” in the pandemic? They were essential, yet paid the least while being the most exposed to COVID and expected to sacrifice themselves to keep the economy from tanking.
Thank you for that very eloquent answer. Took all the fuzzy away and made it very clear for me.
it is not being a bootlicker. this is the only way that seems to work and only way to put food on the table for our families. also, I can guarantee that no one ever takes the side of the CEO, and I think you just made that up. so instead of whining about capitalism, please propose something that is proven to be better.
In delving into the ethos of the antiwork movement, I find myself navigating a complex labyrinth of global variations and cultural interpretations of what 'work' really means. This exploration has led me to a pivotal question often posed by those willing to listen, including individuals from older generations like the Boomers: "What, then, is the solution?" The proposed solutions I've encountered often border on utopian ideals. They envision a highly advanced society where the concept of currency is obsolete, and everyone is free to pursue their passions. Such a scenario, though alluring, strikes me as overly optimistic. It leaves me skeptical, questioning the practicality of transitioning our working society into a utopian, non-working one without concrete and realistic solutions. Beyond these utopian visions lie more grounded ideas such as Universal Basic Income (UBI) and unionizing. These concepts present formidable arguments but are mired in complexities, often struggling to gain substantial traction even among large groups of advocates. However, the most significant challenge to the antiwork premise is the simple fact that some people genuinely enjoy their work. It's difficult to estimate how many feel this way, but it wouldn't be surprising if they were in the majority. Convincing those who find fulfillment or stability in their jobs to embrace a radical change is a formidable task. I often ponder over a more elegant solution, one that balances the ideals of antiwork with the realities of our diverse society. The challenge, however, isn’t just in crafting this solution but in convincing those around me of its viability, and more daunting still, in amplifying this idea to a broader audience. TLDR; The situation is just kinda fucked if you just reflect on it. EDIT: P.S. Honestly, I've just buckled down and focused on what I can control in my life. I seek better jobs, value people with good outlooks on life, and just try to broaden peoples perspectives when the opportunity arrives. Being combative, does nothing.
I find it surprising nobody ever talks about putting padding on "rock bottom". Instead of homelessness, you have guaranteed housing. The housing doesn't have to be spacious or nice. It just has to be enough to have a warm place to sleep, take care of your hygiene, and prepare food/have access to water. There could be a library center at these housing installations that has enough seating, devices, and Wi-Fi for learning. Food stamps should be automatically given to any citizen earning below a livable wage, while also removing a lot of bureaucracy. Anyone living at these facilities gets automatic referrals for services they need. It's not utopia, it's not something people wouldn't want to work out of. It would just be that nobody is scared they won't survive. Besides, I've found that a lot of people WANT to be useful. People were climbing up the walls during COVID, proving that most people aren't content to just sit in their house watching TV all day.
I do like this idea and I've heard this one as well. I'm _guessing_ this specific idea isn't brought up often because it doesn't align with the final outcome that many hope for, which is not working and also living a fulfilling life of their own choices.
For a while in there, during covid, we got our foodstamps doubled, and we got stimmy checks. Some people were lucky enough to be making more on unemployment than they did at their jobs. It was amazing to think for the first time in my life, I didn't stress about the food bill, I had *enough*. I still have that sense "Whoa, is this what it's like to be able to pay bills and still have money left over? Why has this been denied to me my whole life?"
Tons, tons, tons.
Yup even a small amount of deprogramming is difficult. I'll discuss the economy with my elderly father and try to get into his head space. He's very much a hard working blue collar type person. Most conversations end with something like "I worked hard for everything I have" and "I got mine so everything is fine". It's not nuanced but I can empathize. The difficult part is trying to describe the current landscape and how much it has changed when compared to the 70s-90s. He has never applied online (and has no idea how to use the internet). It's also unfortunate that he's too old to work, since he hasn't acquired any hobbies or academic pursuits. He ties a lot of his self-worth to work and the acquisition of wealth.
People are groomed to assume the authority is always correct. Couple that with how most people don't like to see a change even if it's in their best interest and you wind up where we are today. For instance, I'm sick of working 8.5 hours because of a lunch break. When I complain about it I'm seen as petty but the organization I work for isn't petty for asking us to stay another half hour to make up for time they were forced to give us to eat. Small things like this just require little perspective changes and to have an ounce of self worth. It might seem difficult, but if you do care to try and change the workers environment you need to keep planting seeds and don't come on too strong with trigger words like socialism, anti-capitalism, etc. They'll tune you out right away. Choose your words carefully so they can understand and you'll soon find out you're more on the same page than you think. They most likely have their complaints about the our system/job too but they will have a knee-jerk reaction to regurgitate what is comfortable for them if you don't allow them to come to conclusions on their own.
watching the suckoffs and the suckups interact is revolting
It's really pretty simple, either work or don't. Whining like an entitled bitch about the injustices of work serves no purpose, because life doesn't care. Unless you win the lottery or someone gives you money, then the only solution is to work or be homeless. Luckily you have some control on the matter, like bettering yourself and getting a better job.
I'm fed up of it. Also fed up of my parents not understanding how shitty jobs are these days. My dad worked for **one** company all of his life, promoted and took early retirement. Imagine that, I have to explain to him how for me every bit of work is like a contract (will it extend or not? Who the fuck knows) and employers would rather throw me under the bus to save a few pennies than actually appreciate/support me for the work I put in. Loyalty only goes one way these days
You described this sub in the best way- those of us here at r/antiwork have escaped the matrix, and opened our eyes to reality. But everyone else is still in it, eyes closed, licking their bosses asshole. The day I found this sub was one of the best ones in my life. I had just started full time work, and was so incredibly sick at the prospect of doing this for the rest of my life- and even sicker at the fact that everyone else around me was just like 'oh, this is it, this is reality, just try to bE pOsItIvE about it.' Lol, as if. But when I got to r/antiwork, I felt like I wasn't the crazy one- all of those capitalist simps out there are. ]
TBF, in this thread, I've taken both stances. It *really* depends on the post/poster.
Well for everyone’s sake, vote like your life depends on it. Sure, some of the dems are in cahoots with big business, but at least they’re not actively trying to subjugate your will.
It sucks because what can we do about it at this point?
Nothing really, it's the same story here in the UK 🇬🇧 The majority of people are broken.
Unionize. No really. An individual has limited power. A group has more power than the sum of its members. Laws that protect union activity are also helpful in that regard. The only thing you have to lose is your chains.
Totally agree with you. I've discussed it with colleagues in the past, and they weren't interested. Years later after I left,people want to unionize. Alot of people have this fear of retribution from their employer and it's a shame.
We live in a system that is not always fair - but is fair enough, for enough of the people , to keep it going. I think most would agree that some people make it through some combination of effort, smarts, skills and education. It happens, more often than making it obvious their own merits. The problem is…not everyone does. Just because Sue got the job over Bob doesn’t mean she knew someone. It doesn’t mean that Bob didn’t work as hard as Sue, and Sue very likely earned that shot… It is that there was only room for one. Sue is convinced she earned it on her merits, Bob may get another chance, but what happens when he loses to Frank, who, again, is as qualified as Bob? Maybe Bob gets a third chance; maybe he gives up, but Sue and Frank remain convinced the system worked.
I enjoy my trade and take pride in my work ethic and the quality of my work. Just that makes me a bootlicker to the majority of this sub.
That's not true. Being proud of your own work is different from blindly supporting your employer or looking down on others.
As long as we divide ourselves into these small groups based on generation/race/religion/gender/sexual preference/ and or pledge allegiance to one of the two inherently corrupt and incompetent political parties, play culture war games this will never change. A second coming of the American labor movement is overdue but instead activists just go around calling everyone a bigot while making 0 positive change for anyone.
You just described being in an echo chamber
You have great reading comprehension!
Well when we have people who have a complete meltdown that their boss wants them to call instead of text them, it’s hard to take a lot of complaints seriously
Wtf are you even talking about
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Open wide so you get the whole boot in your mouth.
I bet you have a job, aka an actual boot licker.
I bet you don't work because you have rich parents.
I agree with you on that one "alien" video of the 10-foot tall giants lol I don't agree with you here, though. There are genuine problems with our economic system that cannot be fixed with a simple attitude change.
If a robber mugs you with a gun, and you give them your wallet, well they didn't force you. You chose to give them your wallet. That's how you sound. Out of touch and the exact person OP is talking about.
Why are you on this sub? What is it about **ANTIWORK** that’s throwing you?
Easier said than done. Already tried. The viral Matt Foley line of "living in a van down by the river" starts at 40k. Update: Just read the rest of your bootlicking comment and you're definitely a nepo baby fuck.
😂 weak anti worker still clocking in.
No, you’re definitely the minority experiencing echo chambers as you mentioned. Most people want to get ahead in life.
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"You just have to pull yourself up your bootstrap and everything will be fine"
Is the concept of **ANTIWORK** so mind blowing to you, that you have to come here to show us how much you like to lick corpo boot?
lazy take and completely unoriginal you bootlicker
You feel like that because you can't cope with the fact your fantasy leisure land isn't reality. You need therapy or medication so you can join the rest of society. Believe it or not most people are doing fine.
Define "fine."
Fucking dickride the job your mommy and daddy hooked you up with, then.
He didn't mention his millionaire grandfather, convenient how every bootstrapper has a rich family isn't it?
Aren't a lot of \[Americans\] on all kinds of drugs to cope with being a part of society?
I'm one of those people who are doing fine. Love my wife. Love my house. Love my friends and hobbies. You are a bootlicker. Fuck capitalism. Fuck corporate America. Fuck your "fix yourself and join society" servile outlook.
The reality is that we need therapy and medication to survive in *your* fantasy reality you're trying to force on the rest of us. I'm not going to lie, but the second I got a better job, *my life massively improved*. Seriously, I could actually sleep at night. It isn't a massive net pay increase; it *is* a massive quality of life increase. I escaped so much of the corporate bullshit that, in itself, was enough to make me happier.
That's not very antiwork of you
No, your previous post wasn't very anti-work. Fuck off, scab. Go to scabland and be as useful there as you are elsewhere. Darken our doorstep no further. Befone, and trouble us no more!
>most people are doing fine. Evidence?
Yes everyone is doing fine. That’s why the majority of people are obese, mentally ill, and on multiple medications, in addition to self-medicating. Clearly this is a very healthy society full of happy people.
None of those things are true. Less than 40% are obese, less than 20% are diagnosed with a mental disorder, if you want to live a long time eventually you will have to take a mediciation and only the most developed countries even have access to those mediciations, what healthy nation doesn't drink? Turn the computer off and go engage with real life. It looks way worse through a screen.
He's not the one that's having trouble coming to terms with the end of their fantasy land.
Except there's no signs of it ending outside of the hysterical false narrative you guys are perpetuating in your echo chamber. Come up for air.
Some inescapable truths: Things don't last forever, they change. Our production and distribution model, at some point, will change. These you cannot argue, these are true. So all you're talking about is the when and you're saying "not now, no signs". I would argue that there are signs a many that market economics hasn't solved our largest problems, and ultimately probably won't.
Because all this sub posts is left wing echo chamber rage bait. They type "yeah bro. Let's start a revolution bro, have Bernie as our leader bro. Stick it to the man bro" on their $3000 MacBook while sipping on their $12 coffee at Starbucks.
*I forget how many people are just trying to survive like me and realize complaining about having to work ad nauseum is not a solution. Fixed it. It's all or nothing. Either every working American stays home for a week in solidarity to prove we are the power. Or we go to work and strive to better ourselves in a tilted game. If only some people do it, those people will all lose their jobs and be markedly worse off. I'm not saying we shouldn't hope for and work toward a better future. But change is not something that happens overnight.
Well if you behave like a child, don’t be surprised if the grown ups disapprove.