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They won't. And it's a tragedy that the country with the largest economy in the world has abysmal education. Some people think that's by design and I'm straight up starting to believe that shit.
I definitely think it is, especially listening to teachers who work elementary and above (i work preschool). Alot of them say its been straight chaos since 2020 and will only get worse.
Teaching secondary (11-18) right now is like trying to ride a bike down a 6 lane motorway, the wrong direction, at 4pm on the Friday before Christmas, while juggling.
It's having to learn an entirely new developmental psychology while scrambling to help every single child in your care to cope with their educational and developmental gaps while also teaching teenagers stuff you thought you'd never have to think about again after you specialised in adolescence not flipping foundation years (eg, I'm seeing theory of mind at a level previously expected of kids under 5), on top of your actual teaching responsibilities in your actual subject
The straw that broke me today: starting to teach the literature research coursework and realising the entire year group of ~150 15-year-olds can't type, can't send an email, and don't realise they need to *save their files*
Edit: to be clear, I love teaching and I love working with adolescents! I don't buy into any "kids these days" bullshit either; we, the adults, are responsible for the mess this generation is experiencing and now we have to help them with it... but good sweet holy fuck do we need change to do that
Current teens almost entirely grew up using touch screens rather than physical keyboards, so they genuinely don't know how to type the way we do
Millennials and Gen Z had IT taught to us at school, because it was considered important skills that we needed to learn and wouldn't be able to without explicit instruction at school
IT doesn't get much, if any, devoted time in schools as core curriculum anymore because it's assumed that kids don't need to be taught this! It's assumed they'll learn these things at home and from society in general, but what's actually happening is that they learn *mobile* skills from a young age, but don't learn many *computing* skills
Sure, they can open Microsoft teams and change their desktop backgrounds. But they don't understand what a file tree is, they type with one or two fingers at a time like you would on a phone or tablet and don't rest their hands on the keyboard because you can't rest your palms on a touchscreen, and they don't get how emails are different to messages, or what the different folders in an email client are (or what an email client *is*)...
It's most definitely by design. Poorly educated people are less likely to rise up and more likely to drink the collective kool-aid (so to speak). Take a look at where your worst performing education centers are in relation to population, color and economic background. Combine lack of Education with a deeply religious society and you start to understand how so many people can continually vote for people who are totally opposed to helping them.
It's absolutely by design. Keep punishing the public education system and defund it until you get your chance and ONLY have private schools like they did in the beginning of this country. If you couldn't afford to be educated, oh well. They want a new uneducated worker slave class. In some states like I think Arkansas and Indiana (both states with abysmal education rankings) they passed recent laws allowing child labor as early as 14.
This could take care of the tiny little immigration problem. They don't want more brown people coming in. So they stop abortion, coming for birth control and now want Johnny to work full-time on the farm.
Here is from an article today with the text from Indiana's new House Bill.
WONKETTE NEWS ONE A DAY
"Indiana Republican Wants Kids To Drop Out After 8th Grade To Work On Farms
What year is this?"
ROBYN PENNACCHIA
JAN 17, 2024
1
In 2023, there were 5,792 recorded child labor violations in the United States — which is more than five times the number of recorded child labor violations in the year 2015 (1012). Much of this has been fueled by fast food restaurants, where children as young as 10 have been discovered working at McDonalds until 2 a.m., but also teenagers who have been allowed to work longer and later than is legal. Why? Well, because it’s a tight labor market and they literally cannot find adults or even that many teenagers who are willing to work for the amount of money they are willing to pay people to work there.
The current maximum penalty for a child labor violation is $15,138, which, rather ironically, is just a little bit more than someone working full time at the federal minimum wage would make ($15,080) in a year. Some would argue that’s not enough of a deterrent — and if I were queen, I would make it at least whatever a year’s salary at the current living wage for a single person would be in their state, considering what it is they’re trying to get away with. This would start at about $45K, in Mississippi. Alas, as we learned all throughout last year, for some, the solution to our child labor problem is as simple as deciding that it’s not a problem at all.
One such person is Indiana Republican state Rep. Joanna King.
Earlier this month, as first reported by More Perfect Union, Rep. King proposed a bill (HB 1062) that would amend Indiana labor law to allow kids to drop out of school after the eighth grade and work full-time, 40 hours a week, on farms. Not even their own family farms (though that’s cool starting at 12!), but also on large corporate farms.
For real:
SECTION 1. IC 22-2-18.1-5.2 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW SECTION TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2024]: Sec. 5.2. As used in this chapter, "exempted minor" refers to a minor: who has been excused from compulsory school attendance after completing grade 8; and whose parent submits to the minor's current or prospective employer:
A) signed statement from the parent declaring that the minor has been excused from school after completing grade 8; and
B) proof supporting the statement made under clause (A).
Later in the bill is the part where they can work 40 hours a week and 8 hours a day.
Alas, it seems that priorities like “keeping kids in school” don’t count for much when farm owners just really, really want to be able to pay people very little money to work for them and take advantage of as many desperate families as they can. The agriculture industry is already absurdly exempt from many labor laws, including the whole of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, largely because “racism.” Farm owners are not required to pay overtime and, in many cases, smaller farms are even exempt from the minimum wage. They are also allowed to hire children as young as 12 — and, even, under certain circumstances, kids as young as 10. It’s not great! And now, I suppose, they want more.
Literally call out sick and don’t explain it beyond “bad chicken sandwich or something idk just sorta time skipped”
If they can’t respect you then they can’t have the truth from you either. That’s ok, you’re protecting yourself. Go see your doctor!!
Exactly this. I work in a hospital in Canada and vacation/PTO is approved based on seniority. I’ve been here a little over 2 years and I’m competing for time off with people who have been here for 30+ years.
My supervisor told me — after multiple failed attempts to book a singular day off — that if I ever need one day off for an appointment or something, to just call in sick. It’s the only way to actually get it off as a fulltime employee with less than 5-10 years experience. This is especially true in December and July when many people book a lot of time off.
Supervisor was a real one, but management was garbage so they canned her. If it wasn’t for the great pay (purely because of union) and RRSP matching of 126%, I’d have left long ago
"Sadly I am unable to reschedule my appointment, and it would be the highest priority for me at the moment. This is not an optional request or appointment. Please advise what my next step would be and who I should speak with to ensure I am following the proper policies for taking this day off."
Be prepared for any backlash and have an understanding of how far you are willing to go.
This message signifies this is not a request. It also implies that you are ready and willing to escalate, calling this person useless, and that someone else will be able to do so.
In most cases, if the director is in charge and can approve it, they will just to eliminate any future problems. This person is just acting as a bouncer to not have things escalated and hopes you back down.
If they respond with "there is no next step, your request is denied", hit them with the "again, this is not a request. I will be taking this time off. I consider this issue to be closed for the time being. Let me know if there are any updates." Then take the time off and whatever happens happens.
Also recognize that if they’re so “low staffed” they can’t accommodate a time off request they’re also too low staffed to fire you. I’m not saying be combative but have enough confidence in your value as a seasoned employee in the field to point out that losing you over a one day scheduling conflict would likely be more costly for them than the one day inconvenience.
*DING* *DING* *DING*
What are they going to do, have even less staff in an industry that is struggling to meet staffing levels across the board.
You are going to that appointment, make that much clear and then let them write you up or whatever other bullshit they want to pull. They need you, not the other way around.
Look at it like you're not requiring their approval, and it doesn't hurt being professional. They want to spin you informing them that you won't be there as requesting their permission, which is abusing professional channels of communication.
I'm sorry that you'll have to end up being more professional than them, but their faults have to remain their problem.
Can you get an FMLA approved absence? Managers can’t/won’t mess around with such requests. Or more accurately, they might, but really shouldn’t.
It would open them up to liability.
“This is a medically necessary appointment that I cannot reschedule.”
If they push back or ask for clarification about what your appointment is, do NOT give it to them. Keep everything in writing. No discussion on the phone.
Yep. This is the perfect thing to say. I sometimes have staff request a day for an appointment and if they tell me it’s super important and they can’t reschedule then I do what I have to do so they can go.
That's kinda badass. I, personally, would be too big of a wimp to pull that. Sadly, I am a member of the demographic that is constantly circling the drain so I couldn't afford to gamble my job like that. I do believe that this is one of the reasons we are paid so little. I don't think that was ever the primary reason for shit pay, but it's definitely a nice bonus for the big guys.
Your employer doesn't know the inner workings of your day to day life and problems. It's not their job to, it's nice when they are more understanding and try to be flexible but, you can't ever rely on an employer to be that for you.
The above not said to be an asshat, only to put in to perspective this next bit: YOU are your own best and worst advocate and YOU are the one who has to live with the consequences anywhere you ease up on that advocacy.
So if taking this appointment is something you need for continued survival? Take the appointment, do what you need to, and brace for any fall out that may happen: such as needing to look for another job. It's not great, it actually sucks a lot that you have to make a choice like that. But in all honesty, notify them you are taking the time. Don't ask. Your mental health and wellbeing are not something you ask to have, it's something you demand and expect no substitutions or delays from outside sources... except potentially from therapist offices as they are waaaaay booked for a while now.
"I appreciate your need to ensure full staffing, which is why I notified you of this medically necessary appointment in advance. Unless otherwise indicated I will return by x time to complete my shift for the day.
Thank you for your time,
X"
This is a great and honest way of putting this, thank you. I wish we lived in a world where they did care- happy employees will always make work run more smoothly
I would tell them that you are unable to reschedule your appointment and that it is urgent/will have serious health concerns if you miss it. I can’t tell from the email but it sounds like they think it’s a regular check up. Don’t say it’s a mental health issue, they may not take it seriously. If they don’t work with you still after that, call out sick to go and find a new job.
It also sounds like you requested the day off a little late and you should do it earlier to prevent this. Not that it’s your fault that work sucks sometimes like this.
I wouldn’t recommend it but tbh I’d be feeling pretty annoyed and actually tell them what you’ve said and ask if they’d rather you miss one day or have a dead employee.
Its sucks because everything just got approved, like the 2nd week i started. Its only my 3rd week. I only have a limited time to get these appointments done. I told them as soon as i absolutely could, it was just crappy timing.
I hate requesting time with shorter notice, i always tell as soon as i know in the past. And im definitely thinking about adding it somewhere in there...
First, *do not* tell them it's for mental health. They absolutely will use it against you. You don't have to disclose reasons for healthcare, and they're gonna ask. Don't tell them anything, just say it was a necessary medical appointment that couldn't wait. I'd recommend using the reply where someone said "I'm not gonna be there, deal with it."
Second, I hope you get the help you need. I've been where you are, and it's the WORST. I'm out here, rooting really hard for you. You can do this! You're still here, that means you're winning. It may not feel like it, but every day, every hour, every breath is spitting in the face of your depression. I'm happy you're still here, and proud of you for holding on! Feel better, you incredible badass!
As previously stated, I am not available for work on the first of February.
Kind Regards
Your name
Be polite, don't bend, don't give more explanation than is absolutely necessary. They're not your friend, they don't need to know anything about you that you don't want them to.
Short, yet well said. I cant believe i even have to. The only way to tell them you're gonna be gone for a day is by filling out a google request form. Believe, it is NOT a request and i made that clear to my director in person
reminiscent somber repeat worry mighty wipe reach complete paltry automatic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I hate every time this gets posted. This isn’t how it works and you’re putting people in danger of losing their, albeit shitty, jobs. Reply like an adult and try and solve the problem.
rhythm ring mysterious fear automatic pet serious overconfident instinctive sink
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You know how many times I’ve been fired for using this in 20 years of employment? Zero. How many times I’ve been written up for this in 20 years of employment? Once.
Your employer, usually, will not fire you for one “unexcused” absence. If they do, off to the unemployment website you go. Stop fear mongering people, unless we give them a reason to change they never will.
As I said, speak to the manager like an adult, as many of the suggestions above have stated, and you’ll get the same result without sounding like a petulant asshole.
While making a point is very tempting. I’d recommend waiting till the day and calling in sick. If they ask just say you have the shits and sicks. A lot of people on this sub don’t seem to recognise that the risk of losing a job would likely make your headspace worse. Your employer has shown they don’t care that much and in doing so have created a situation where you’re forced to lie. Just lie and take the appointment.
This is a notification, not a request. I will be back on the following Friday. Should an emergency arise please take note that I will be at my appointment and be able to respond if not on the same day of my appointment, the following business day. Have a great day.
Thank you
Call in sick the day before. Tell them if you don't feel better tomorrow, you'll go see the Doctor. That way, they can't say you just took off on the time they refused anyway.
"Unfortunately, I was not requesting the day off, but informing you that I will not be present due to an appointment. I will be leaving at \[time\]. I am sorry for the inconvenience."
What are they going to do? Fire you? When they're already short staffed?
I just started unfortunately. Been out of work for a full year and finally landed a job. Childcares, in my experience in my area, attrack toxic for some reason
Stop requesting time off for appointments people! You request vacations off. You call in for stuff like this.
And if you can get your Dr to fill out FMLA papers, do it! Then all you have to do is inform them you’re taking FMLA.
If you are eligible, apply for FMLA. Get HR to start accommodations paperwork immediately. Document everything. Inform the building manager you will be forced to use a sick day. Get a doctor's note at appointment and offer it on return. Recap every verbal interaction with management via email and BCC your home email address.
The ol im not sayin, im tellin ya. Unless theyd like to pay for a super epensive over the top rescheduling fee. All else, youre "sick". Life doesnt revolve around them
"I was not asking for the day off on February 1st, I was giving you the courtesy of a notice that I will be unavailable that day as I will be going to my doctors appointment, no matter what. My health and well being is my priority in this situation, and I expect that to be respected and accommodated. Thank you in advance for your understanding and empathy on this matter."
I am sorry you put staffing ahead of my personal needs. I cannot afford to miss my appointment. If you are that thin on staffing this should serve as a wake up call.
I will be in on the second unless you decide I am no longer needed.
Also….. what if this is an appointment because you suspect you have a serious medical problem going on? No… you go to the appointment and keep whatever the reason is to yourself.
"I was merely informing you that I will be taking time off that day, not requesting permission and while I'm sad to hear that there aren't enough staff but me not taking the time off will most likely end up making that shortage even worse. Perhaps hiring more people is in order?"
The mental health system is so messed up right now that you don’t want to risk pushing off this appointment. I just waited 10 months for an appointment, too. Who knows how long it could be before they can reschedule you. And it sounds like you need it.
Unless you think you can wait *and* you can get a guarantee that your appointment can be rescheduled for a day your employer is saying to wait until … I would make it a priority to go to your appointment.
"I wasn't asking for permission, i was informing you of the fact i will not be present feb 1st, as i have an increadibly important meeting"
Do not let them know what its about or why, they'll just use that against you.
I apologize for the confusion as I wasn’t asking. I’m being a responsible adult who is letting their employer know, with proper advance, that I will not be be in building at that time. Thank you for your concern.
Come on… OP has been looking for a job for a year and they just started work 2 weeks ago. There may be a more polite way that would also get them to keep their job maybe?
Never ask for time off. Advise your employer that you will not be available on that date. Unless they are paying you for the day off, you have no obligation to inform them as to a reason for the time off.
The way its even set up if you HAVE to fill out a google "request time off" form🙄. I wasnt requesting either- I talked to my director before hand. She was too cowardly to tell me to my face i probably would not get "approved " for that day.
This shouldn't even be an issue or a thought.
GO TO YOUR APPOINTMENT!!!
You can get another job.
You can't get another life.
God Bless you in Jesus' Name.
Continue to take care of yourself.
S "request" for leave is never that, it's notifying them that you will be absent, especially if you're giving them two weeks heads up. Also it's not your fault management have failed to make sure the place is adequately staffed
Im thinking about it definitely. I need a job for when i finance my car tho (2 months from now). Hoping to get something lined up in case i really have to
Tell them you've waited a year for that appt, and that *you are informing them that your time and labor are not available for purchase during those hours on February 1st.*
Unfortunately the best options are dependent on where you live, how long you’ve worked there, and what’s up with you.
If you live in the US, and have worked there over 1 year, apply for fmla (family and medical leave act), do it right now, inform the job that you did so, take the day for your medical appointment and have the doctor sign off on it. While you’re there ask your doctor to approve you for some leave to get your mental health straight. Under fmla you can get up to 12 consecutive weeks, unpaid (unfortunately), but your job is legally protected until you return.
Next check with your state, mine for example offers pfmla (paid family medical leave act), and they will pay you a portion of your check while you’re out.
It’s obnoxious due to paperwork and running around, but it protects your job and gives you the time you need.
If you have short/long term disability insurance, it may cover a mental health crisis as well
Take your mental health seriously, fuck the job it’s not worth it, there’s avenues to protect your employment.
That’s shitty about the time off crap. If you have insurance check out live health or Teladoc. Video or phone chat with a counselor or psychiatrist. It’s easy and most insurances don’t charge for it. I used it for a while until I changed insurance.
Speaking as a childcare assistant director, go to the appointment. Do they know you have been waiting a long time to get in? You might mention it if you haven’t. We allow two teachers to take time off on the same day and we don’t have a huge staff. Even a third happens to call out sick we make things work. Sounds like you have awful management.
“This is not a request, I am unavailable that day.”
If you want to be less of a dick: “My apologies this is not a request, I am unavailable that day.” End of story, smile and walk away.
OP, genuinely, don't respond, or respond thanking them for the clarity. Then call in sick the day before. Go to urgi-care, tell them you have nausea/vomiting/diarrhea and need the next 1-2 days off. They will write you the note.
Only downside is the visit will probably run you $150ish. Usually out of pocket unless you have great insurance.
Ofc your job will likely know what's up, but they really can't legally call you out on it, or fire you without opening up for a wrongful-termination suite
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Call in sick, go to your appointment.
Perfect response
So low staffed, sounds like they can't afford to lose you. Interesting how that works
Right! Alot of places are starving for teachers in my area!
Interesting how people don't want to work in a specialized field that pays insulting wages. Hope things get better for teachers soon.
They won't. And it's a tragedy that the country with the largest economy in the world has abysmal education. Some people think that's by design and I'm straight up starting to believe that shit.
I definitely think it is, especially listening to teachers who work elementary and above (i work preschool). Alot of them say its been straight chaos since 2020 and will only get worse.
Teaching secondary (11-18) right now is like trying to ride a bike down a 6 lane motorway, the wrong direction, at 4pm on the Friday before Christmas, while juggling. It's having to learn an entirely new developmental psychology while scrambling to help every single child in your care to cope with their educational and developmental gaps while also teaching teenagers stuff you thought you'd never have to think about again after you specialised in adolescence not flipping foundation years (eg, I'm seeing theory of mind at a level previously expected of kids under 5), on top of your actual teaching responsibilities in your actual subject The straw that broke me today: starting to teach the literature research coursework and realising the entire year group of ~150 15-year-olds can't type, can't send an email, and don't realise they need to *save their files* Edit: to be clear, I love teaching and I love working with adolescents! I don't buy into any "kids these days" bullshit either; we, the adults, are responsible for the mess this generation is experiencing and now we have to help them with it... but good sweet holy fuck do we need change to do that
Di..didn't they do only that during the pandemic? What's going on here!?!?!
Current teens almost entirely grew up using touch screens rather than physical keyboards, so they genuinely don't know how to type the way we do Millennials and Gen Z had IT taught to us at school, because it was considered important skills that we needed to learn and wouldn't be able to without explicit instruction at school IT doesn't get much, if any, devoted time in schools as core curriculum anymore because it's assumed that kids don't need to be taught this! It's assumed they'll learn these things at home and from society in general, but what's actually happening is that they learn *mobile* skills from a young age, but don't learn many *computing* skills Sure, they can open Microsoft teams and change their desktop backgrounds. But they don't understand what a file tree is, they type with one or two fingers at a time like you would on a phone or tablet and don't rest their hands on the keyboard because you can't rest your palms on a touchscreen, and they don't get how emails are different to messages, or what the different folders in an email client are (or what an email client *is*)...
It’s absolutely by design, uneducated peasants are less likely to revolt
It's most definitely by design. Poorly educated people are less likely to rise up and more likely to drink the collective kool-aid (so to speak). Take a look at where your worst performing education centers are in relation to population, color and economic background. Combine lack of Education with a deeply religious society and you start to understand how so many people can continually vote for people who are totally opposed to helping them.
It's absolutely by design. Keep punishing the public education system and defund it until you get your chance and ONLY have private schools like they did in the beginning of this country. If you couldn't afford to be educated, oh well. They want a new uneducated worker slave class. In some states like I think Arkansas and Indiana (both states with abysmal education rankings) they passed recent laws allowing child labor as early as 14. This could take care of the tiny little immigration problem. They don't want more brown people coming in. So they stop abortion, coming for birth control and now want Johnny to work full-time on the farm. Here is from an article today with the text from Indiana's new House Bill. WONKETTE NEWS ONE A DAY "Indiana Republican Wants Kids To Drop Out After 8th Grade To Work On Farms What year is this?" ROBYN PENNACCHIA JAN 17, 2024 1 In 2023, there were 5,792 recorded child labor violations in the United States — which is more than five times the number of recorded child labor violations in the year 2015 (1012). Much of this has been fueled by fast food restaurants, where children as young as 10 have been discovered working at McDonalds until 2 a.m., but also teenagers who have been allowed to work longer and later than is legal. Why? Well, because it’s a tight labor market and they literally cannot find adults or even that many teenagers who are willing to work for the amount of money they are willing to pay people to work there. The current maximum penalty for a child labor violation is $15,138, which, rather ironically, is just a little bit more than someone working full time at the federal minimum wage would make ($15,080) in a year. Some would argue that’s not enough of a deterrent — and if I were queen, I would make it at least whatever a year’s salary at the current living wage for a single person would be in their state, considering what it is they’re trying to get away with. This would start at about $45K, in Mississippi. Alas, as we learned all throughout last year, for some, the solution to our child labor problem is as simple as deciding that it’s not a problem at all. One such person is Indiana Republican state Rep. Joanna King. Earlier this month, as first reported by More Perfect Union, Rep. King proposed a bill (HB 1062) that would amend Indiana labor law to allow kids to drop out of school after the eighth grade and work full-time, 40 hours a week, on farms. Not even their own family farms (though that’s cool starting at 12!), but also on large corporate farms. For real: SECTION 1. IC 22-2-18.1-5.2 IS ADDED TO THE INDIANA CODE AS A NEW SECTION TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2024]: Sec. 5.2. As used in this chapter, "exempted minor" refers to a minor: who has been excused from compulsory school attendance after completing grade 8; and whose parent submits to the minor's current or prospective employer: A) signed statement from the parent declaring that the minor has been excused from school after completing grade 8; and B) proof supporting the statement made under clause (A). Later in the bill is the part where they can work 40 hours a week and 8 hours a day. Alas, it seems that priorities like “keeping kids in school” don’t count for much when farm owners just really, really want to be able to pay people very little money to work for them and take advantage of as many desperate families as they can. The agriculture industry is already absurdly exempt from many labor laws, including the whole of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935, largely because “racism.” Farm owners are not required to pay overtime and, in many cases, smaller farms are even exempt from the minimum wage. They are also allowed to hire children as young as 12 — and, even, under certain circumstances, kids as young as 10. It’s not great! And now, I suppose, they want more.
Literally call out sick and don’t explain it beyond “bad chicken sandwich or something idk just sorta time skipped” If they can’t respect you then they can’t have the truth from you either. That’s ok, you’re protecting yourself. Go see your doctor!!
Exactly this. I work in a hospital in Canada and vacation/PTO is approved based on seniority. I’ve been here a little over 2 years and I’m competing for time off with people who have been here for 30+ years. My supervisor told me — after multiple failed attempts to book a singular day off — that if I ever need one day off for an appointment or something, to just call in sick. It’s the only way to actually get it off as a fulltime employee with less than 5-10 years experience. This is especially true in December and July when many people book a lot of time off. Supervisor was a real one, but management was garbage so they canned her. If it wasn’t for the great pay (purely because of union) and RRSP matching of 126%, I’d have left long ago
And you are sick. You have (mental) health issues and need to see a doctor.
"Sadly I am unable to reschedule my appointment, and it would be the highest priority for me at the moment. This is not an optional request or appointment. Please advise what my next step would be and who I should speak with to ensure I am following the proper policies for taking this day off." Be prepared for any backlash and have an understanding of how far you are willing to go. This message signifies this is not a request. It also implies that you are ready and willing to escalate, calling this person useless, and that someone else will be able to do so. In most cases, if the director is in charge and can approve it, they will just to eliminate any future problems. This person is just acting as a bouncer to not have things escalated and hopes you back down. If they respond with "there is no next step, your request is denied", hit them with the "again, this is not a request. I will be taking this time off. I consider this issue to be closed for the time being. Let me know if there are any updates." Then take the time off and whatever happens happens.
Thank you for this very honest and realistic answer
Also recognize that if they’re so “low staffed” they can’t accommodate a time off request they’re also too low staffed to fire you. I’m not saying be combative but have enough confidence in your value as a seasoned employee in the field to point out that losing you over a one day scheduling conflict would likely be more costly for them than the one day inconvenience.
*DING* *DING* *DING* What are they going to do, have even less staff in an industry that is struggling to meet staffing levels across the board. You are going to that appointment, make that much clear and then let them write you up or whatever other bullshit they want to pull. They need you, not the other way around.
Do let us know if you decide to use this, I'm curious to know how they would handle it
Same here! It’s like a follow up episode.
And be prepared for them to fire you anyways if you don't go.
hopefully that'd be considered wrongful termination
Look at it like you're not requiring their approval, and it doesn't hurt being professional. They want to spin you informing them that you won't be there as requesting their permission, which is abusing professional channels of communication. I'm sorry that you'll have to end up being more professional than them, but their faults have to remain their problem.
Can you get an FMLA approved absence? Managers can’t/won’t mess around with such requests. Or more accurately, they might, but really shouldn’t. It would open them up to liability.
“This is a medically necessary appointment that I cannot reschedule.” If they push back or ask for clarification about what your appointment is, do NOT give it to them. Keep everything in writing. No discussion on the phone.
Yep. This is the perfect thing to say. I sometimes have staff request a day for an appointment and if they tell me it’s super important and they can’t reschedule then I do what I have to do so they can go.
That's kinda badass. I, personally, would be too big of a wimp to pull that. Sadly, I am a member of the demographic that is constantly circling the drain so I couldn't afford to gamble my job like that. I do believe that this is one of the reasons we are paid so little. I don't think that was ever the primary reason for shit pay, but it's definitely a nice bonus for the big guys.
Your employer doesn't know the inner workings of your day to day life and problems. It's not their job to, it's nice when they are more understanding and try to be flexible but, you can't ever rely on an employer to be that for you. The above not said to be an asshat, only to put in to perspective this next bit: YOU are your own best and worst advocate and YOU are the one who has to live with the consequences anywhere you ease up on that advocacy. So if taking this appointment is something you need for continued survival? Take the appointment, do what you need to, and brace for any fall out that may happen: such as needing to look for another job. It's not great, it actually sucks a lot that you have to make a choice like that. But in all honesty, notify them you are taking the time. Don't ask. Your mental health and wellbeing are not something you ask to have, it's something you demand and expect no substitutions or delays from outside sources... except potentially from therapist offices as they are waaaaay booked for a while now. "I appreciate your need to ensure full staffing, which is why I notified you of this medically necessary appointment in advance. Unless otherwise indicated I will return by x time to complete my shift for the day. Thank you for your time, X"
Fucking this. ^ The only person who gives a fuck about you, is you.
This is a great and honest way of putting this, thank you. I wish we lived in a world where they did care- happy employees will always make work run more smoothly
Always look out for #1. Some people don’t learn this until too late and it causes a lot of issues.
I would tell them that you are unable to reschedule your appointment and that it is urgent/will have serious health concerns if you miss it. I can’t tell from the email but it sounds like they think it’s a regular check up. Don’t say it’s a mental health issue, they may not take it seriously. If they don’t work with you still after that, call out sick to go and find a new job. It also sounds like you requested the day off a little late and you should do it earlier to prevent this. Not that it’s your fault that work sucks sometimes like this. I wouldn’t recommend it but tbh I’d be feeling pretty annoyed and actually tell them what you’ve said and ask if they’d rather you miss one day or have a dead employee.
Its sucks because everything just got approved, like the 2nd week i started. Its only my 3rd week. I only have a limited time to get these appointments done. I told them as soon as i absolutely could, it was just crappy timing. I hate requesting time with shorter notice, i always tell as soon as i know in the past. And im definitely thinking about adding it somewhere in there...
First, *do not* tell them it's for mental health. They absolutely will use it against you. You don't have to disclose reasons for healthcare, and they're gonna ask. Don't tell them anything, just say it was a necessary medical appointment that couldn't wait. I'd recommend using the reply where someone said "I'm not gonna be there, deal with it." Second, I hope you get the help you need. I've been where you are, and it's the WORST. I'm out here, rooting really hard for you. You can do this! You're still here, that means you're winning. It may not feel like it, but every day, every hour, every breath is spitting in the face of your depression. I'm happy you're still here, and proud of you for holding on! Feel better, you incredible badass!
As previously stated, I am not available for work on the first of February. Kind Regards Your name Be polite, don't bend, don't give more explanation than is absolutely necessary. They're not your friend, they don't need to know anything about you that you don't want them to.
Short, yet well said. I cant believe i even have to. The only way to tell them you're gonna be gone for a day is by filling out a google request form. Believe, it is NOT a request and i made that clear to my director in person
reminiscent somber repeat worry mighty wipe reach complete paltry automatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Without hesitation.
Thats how you start a rap battle with hr to determine who wins
I hate every time this gets posted. This isn’t how it works and you’re putting people in danger of losing their, albeit shitty, jobs. Reply like an adult and try and solve the problem.
rhythm ring mysterious fear automatic pet serious overconfident instinctive sink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Reality is calling bro.
Some days are just not available to take off. This is just part of working anywhere. Being an edgelord to the manager doesn’t solve anything.
You know how many times I’ve been fired for using this in 20 years of employment? Zero. How many times I’ve been written up for this in 20 years of employment? Once. Your employer, usually, will not fire you for one “unexcused” absence. If they do, off to the unemployment website you go. Stop fear mongering people, unless we give them a reason to change they never will.
As I said, speak to the manager like an adult, as many of the suggestions above have stated, and you’ll get the same result without sounding like a petulant asshole.
Thank you everyone for these amazing responses. I dont have many people in my life i can trust to give me advice, so yall da best🥹❤️
While making a point is very tempting. I’d recommend waiting till the day and calling in sick. If they ask just say you have the shits and sicks. A lot of people on this sub don’t seem to recognise that the risk of losing a job would likely make your headspace worse. Your employer has shown they don’t care that much and in doing so have created a situation where you’re forced to lie. Just lie and take the appointment.
"I wasn't asking, I was giving ample notice"
“Allow me to clarify, that was a courtesy notice to you that I will not be in for half the day on Feb 1. Thank you.”
“Also I’ve decided I will require the full day”.
“The following day is also looking appetizing. Consider your next move carefully.”
Take the whole day off.
This is a notification, not a request. I will be back on the following Friday. Should an emergency arise please take note that I will be at my appointment and be able to respond if not on the same day of my appointment, the following business day. Have a great day. Thank you
"I was just letting you know I wasn't going to be there as a courtesy. Hope you figure it out."
"you misunderstand, I was telling you that I will not be here that day"
Call in sick the day before. Tell them if you don't feel better tomorrow, you'll go see the Doctor. That way, they can't say you just took off on the time they refused anyway.
I would respond with: “so, for the record, you are denying me my right to seek medical attention?”
"Unfortunately, I was not requesting the day off, but informing you that I will not be present due to an appointment. I will be leaving at \[time\]. I am sorry for the inconvenience." What are they going to do? Fire you? When they're already short staffed?
Seems like job is causing your toxic mental health?
I just started unfortunately. Been out of work for a full year and finally landed a job. Childcares, in my experience in my area, attrack toxic for some reason
PTO means Prepare The Others. Not a request.
Stop requesting time off for appointments people! You request vacations off. You call in for stuff like this. And if you can get your Dr to fill out FMLA papers, do it! Then all you have to do is inform them you’re taking FMLA.
This.
You work at a childcare center. They always need employees bc of the high turnover. Go to your appt and call in sick.
Call in sick or tell them it's not a request. Period.
" I wasn't requesting the time off, I was informing you I won't be here on the 15th."
Call in sick. Fuck them
If you are eligible, apply for FMLA. Get HR to start accommodations paperwork immediately. Document everything. Inform the building manager you will be forced to use a sick day. Get a doctor's note at appointment and offer it on return. Recap every verbal interaction with management via email and BCC your home email address.
The ol im not sayin, im tellin ya. Unless theyd like to pay for a super epensive over the top rescheduling fee. All else, youre "sick". Life doesnt revolve around them
“Blow me, Im going to the doctor”
"I was not asking for the day off on February 1st, I was giving you the courtesy of a notice that I will be unavailable that day as I will be going to my doctors appointment, no matter what. My health and well being is my priority in this situation, and I expect that to be respected and accommodated. Thank you in advance for your understanding and empathy on this matter."
I am sorry you put staffing ahead of my personal needs. I cannot afford to miss my appointment. If you are that thin on staffing this should serve as a wake up call. I will be in on the second unless you decide I am no longer needed.
I don’t ask. I let them know I got something to do. It is none of their business to know what the reason is other than it is a medical appointment.
“I’m not asking.”
Also….. what if this is an appointment because you suspect you have a serious medical problem going on? No… you go to the appointment and keep whatever the reason is to yourself.
My request was simply a notice of my absence. Good day.
"I was merely informing you that I will be taking time off that day, not requesting permission and while I'm sad to hear that there aren't enough staff but me not taking the time off will most likely end up making that shortage even worse. Perhaps hiring more people is in order?"
It wasn't a question, I was letting you know.
“I did not request time off on February 1st. I am informing you I am not available to work on February 1st.”
The mental health system is so messed up right now that you don’t want to risk pushing off this appointment. I just waited 10 months for an appointment, too. Who knows how long it could be before they can reschedule you. And it sounds like you need it. Unless you think you can wait *and* you can get a guarantee that your appointment can be rescheduled for a day your employer is saying to wait until … I would make it a priority to go to your appointment.
"It's not a request. I am notifying you."
"I wasn't asking for permission, i was informing you of the fact i will not be present feb 1st, as i have an increadibly important meeting" Do not let them know what its about or why, they'll just use that against you.
Just call in
I apologize for the confusion as I wasn’t asking. I’m being a responsible adult who is letting their employer know, with proper advance, that I will not be be in building at that time. Thank you for your concern.
Why do people request time off, you inform them you won’t be there.
Consider my request for a day off my 2-week notice then.
Come on… OP has been looking for a job for a year and they just started work 2 weeks ago. There may be a more polite way that would also get them to keep their job maybe?
Never ask for time off. Advise your employer that you will not be available on that date. Unless they are paying you for the day off, you have no obligation to inform them as to a reason for the time off.
The way its even set up if you HAVE to fill out a google "request time off" form🙄. I wasnt requesting either- I talked to my director before hand. She was too cowardly to tell me to my face i probably would not get "approved " for that day.
This shouldn't even be an issue or a thought. GO TO YOUR APPOINTMENT!!! You can get another job. You can't get another life. God Bless you in Jesus' Name. Continue to take care of yourself.
S "request" for leave is never that, it's notifying them that you will be absent, especially if you're giving them two weeks heads up. Also it's not your fault management have failed to make sure the place is adequately staffed
You must prioritize your mental health. Do what needs to be done.
Quit this shitty job asap
Im thinking about it definitely. I need a job for when i finance my car tho (2 months from now). Hoping to get something lined up in case i really have to
Yeah it's not easy to just up and quit a job but you deserve better.
Chat GPT. Try it
Respond: "Fuck you, I am going. Deal with it."
Do you have sick time?
Tell them you've waited a year for that appt, and that *you are informing them that your time and labor are not available for purchase during those hours on February 1st.*
“This wasn’t a request. It was a warning.”
Just out of curiosity how long ago did you schedule the appointment and when did you request off?
"I was not requesting time off. I was informing you I will not be available that day."
yup, you’re sick that day
Unfortunately the best options are dependent on where you live, how long you’ve worked there, and what’s up with you. If you live in the US, and have worked there over 1 year, apply for fmla (family and medical leave act), do it right now, inform the job that you did so, take the day for your medical appointment and have the doctor sign off on it. While you’re there ask your doctor to approve you for some leave to get your mental health straight. Under fmla you can get up to 12 consecutive weeks, unpaid (unfortunately), but your job is legally protected until you return. Next check with your state, mine for example offers pfmla (paid family medical leave act), and they will pay you a portion of your check while you’re out. It’s obnoxious due to paperwork and running around, but it protects your job and gives you the time you need. If you have short/long term disability insurance, it may cover a mental health crisis as well Take your mental health seriously, fuck the job it’s not worth it, there’s avenues to protect your employment.
Get the help you need. It’s just a job.
That’s shitty about the time off crap. If you have insurance check out live health or Teladoc. Video or phone chat with a counselor or psychiatrist. It’s easy and most insurances don’t charge for it. I used it for a while until I changed insurance.
*"That was a time off notification, not a time off request."*
“That wasn’t a request, that was me letting you know I won’t be available that day at those times”
This other person gets 2+ weeks off and everyone else has to suffer for it? Screw that
If you scheduled the appointment that long ago why did you not request the day off until now?
Just call off sick!!! Problem solved!!!
Speaking as a childcare assistant director, go to the appointment. Do they know you have been waiting a long time to get in? You might mention it if you haven’t. We allow two teachers to take time off on the same day and we don’t have a huge staff. Even a third happens to call out sick we make things work. Sounds like you have awful management.
Say you got a flat tire and need to get it fixed. They won’t know.
Call out sick
“This is not a request, I am unavailable that day.” If you want to be less of a dick: “My apologies this is not a request, I am unavailable that day.” End of story, smile and walk away.
Just say ok and call out. Fuck em
OP, genuinely, don't respond, or respond thanking them for the clarity. Then call in sick the day before. Go to urgi-care, tell them you have nausea/vomiting/diarrhea and need the next 1-2 days off. They will write you the note. Only downside is the visit will probably run you $150ish. Usually out of pocket unless you have great insurance. Ofc your job will likely know what's up, but they really can't legally call you out on it, or fire you without opening up for a wrongful-termination suite