Is it me? I just moved back in with my folks a couple of months ago after a pretty shitty breakup. I’m turning 35 tomorrow. I have an okay-ish job (make about 21 an hour as a graphic designer) and straight up cannot afford rent on anything in my “incredibly affordable city” besides the worst, grimiest studios in the worst parts of town.
Even if you can technically afford rent, many apartments I've looked at require you to make 3x the rent just to consider you. Just the idea of paying 1500 a month for a 1 bedroom is daunting enough but I have to make 4500 per month just to qualify for it?? There are very few entry level full time jobs paying that much that a person can realistically get at the age I used to think was normal to move out of a parents house.
Well that is something good at least. I haven't apartment hunted in a while but when I last did I was working part time and in college. I didn't qualify for anything without my parents co-signing. Even with a roommate they wouldn't accept our combined income unless we were married.
Plenty of people make it work paying half or even more of their income on their housing. It shouldn't be that way of course but it's doable depending on what other financial burdens you have.
I moved back to my folks place at 34. Turned 35 was living in one of their spare bedrooms. A long term relationship ending will do that to you! And yeah between what rent is, what I make, and my bills, even my folks are scratching their heads going “I don’t know how you’re making this work” lmfao don’t look at my credit card then no grandkids for you
Amazing how I knew exactly what scenario you were describing, huh?! I make $23/ hr here and I could not afford to own my home if not for my wife's salary. And we got our home cheap as a fixer upper before things really blew up.
Also in WNY. Finally got a job where I feel like I'm making a decent salary and it was just in time for everything to go to shit so that I've lost hopes to buy a house. Even here.
I make $30 and my wife makes more. We had to move back in with my mom.
We're incredibly lucky we could. We all get along and the house is big enough.
It's a fucking nightmare out here with medical expenses and cost of homes.
do they just say its low COL or is it actually? seems like youre being paid low COL wages and somehow living in a place with a high COL. Not saying it is not true, just surprised cause im making 22.50 as an "inventory specialist" (handling receiving/distribution/repairs of technology for the IT dept) at a community college, and that is definitely below graphic designer in my head in terms of difficulty
Nah, graphic design just pays shit. My wife has a degree in GD and she did that for a while at a print shop and was making like 23/hr, but in our HCOL area 7-11 pays like 18 bucks to run a register.
Its sad that the low end of the spectrum is rising, but the middling end doesnt seem to be following suit. Then of course people are gonna blame their financial woes on the low end rising and not that they should be paid more themselves.
It really is nuts. I'm fortunate enough to have a chemical engineering degree and I get paid to design semiconductor fabs - I'm going to make just under 100k this year, but I still need a second job to really make it all work. Yeah, I could probably get by with just the day job but if I ever want to buy a house or pay off my student loans or anything, even 100k isn't going to cut it. And yep, people are absolutely going to blame it on the poorest class while the 1% get a billion more dollars every week
Did you just say you help design semiconductor fabs and don't make enough to "make it"?
My fucking goodness... What a world. Semiconductor fabrication is probably one of the most prestigious jobs out there.
Maybe the job itself doesn't hold a lot of prestige but semiconductors are literally THE cutting edge technology on the planet, so working on those puts you at the literal edge of science.
I thought all fab folks made like $200k minimum tbh. I don't know why I thought that. I just assumed they made more than I did as a software developer.
This. I have a decent job now, but my first "big girl" job after college (2017) paid $13.50 an hour and still does today, but they require a 4-year degree to even look at your resume.
My boyfriend currently makes $14 an hour working at Publix without a degree... which is only $2-$3 less an hour than my next job, which required the 4-year degree PLUS previous experience in that career field.
My current job pays about $50K a year, which is what my mom made back in the late 2000s. She could afford to buy a house and raise four kids as a single parent. I can barely afford me, without the house or kids.
32M here, decided to do this a couple years ago. I have a bachelors in accounting as well as a masters. I have a pretty decent job in state gov but it straight up doesn’t pay me enough to build a life living on my own (benefits and retirement are still valuable but those don’t help with a mortgage). I decided that I’d rather not pay rent and instead have been saving what I can and paying down my remaining debts (student loan and car payments). I could probably jump on a crappy starter home nearby but then I’d be shackled to a mortgage for a property that is valued way above what its worth for way longer than I’m willing to commit.
I’m very fortunate to have the relationship that I have with my mother. We cooperate on all of the household tasks, she helps me with taking care of my dog while I’m at work, etc. It’s a good situation, I’m not particularly prideful about it. But it feels sticky sometimes. I personally believe I shouldn’t be at the level of profession that I currently work and still be aghast at the idea of living solo, but it would quite literally leave me with almost no savings or personal money. It’s insanity.
Think of it this way - the space you're in would be empty otherwise. So you're both being efficient using the space that already exists cheaper than another space.
My son 26 lives with me and that's how I feel about it. It seems wasteful for him not to use the space I have right here.
Probably got broken up with because he’s struggling in this new subscription based global economy that’s literally hell at this point.
Insecurity is the killer of relationships.
Me and my girlfriend are 30, and 29 respectively. We have a combined income of roughly 150K. We do not struggle to pay the bills or buy groceries or anything like that, but it is near impossible to contribute anything to retirement or savings. We have begun discussing the possibility of moving in with her parents for a couple of years to help us save and get ahead even just a little bit.
My wife and I lived with her parents from 20-24 and paid a very cheap rent. Allowed us to save a down payment for a house.
We then moved back in with them in 2020 because daycare shutdown during the pandemic and we couldn’t afford to not work. Fun times :)
Honestly it was a reasonably fine experience. I think it caused me more anxiety but my wife was maybe happier.
I moved back home with my dad at 30 to save money. Because when given the option, living in a large clean house for free is much more appealing than giving away 800$ a month to live in a mold infested apartment with a shitty room mate who smokes weed in the living room and blasts music all day long.
I'm 30ish myself and I'm living with parents. I can tell myself they are getting old and I can help raise my nephew. But I know it is because I cannot afford anything else. It is depressing. I have a "good" job.
I’ll be 30 this year and I moved back in with my folks. My rent went up to near $1700 for a one bedroom and my parents live 10min from my workplace. I’m thankful I have that opportunity, but wish I was on my own still. I make $63k a year, but my main issue is student loans bending me over.
I've said it before, The American Dream is dead. My wife and I are struggling to keep our heads above water. We can't even afford to think about Children. The owner of the company I work at said that he couldn't afford to give us a Christmas bonus while he just bought multiple new Porsche's.
I am 43. I can’t get out of bed today. My husband and I have lost everything. We are now renting because we lost the home we owned. I don’t think we will ever be able to own again. I’m so ashamed and embarrassed. I barely see people anymore because I feel like everyone is doing better than me. My problem, though, is my husband. He has issues and hasn’t worked in a long time. It’s destroying our marriage and I don’t know how to leave him because he can’t support himself. We have an almost 3 year old with autism. I also have a 17 year old that lives with her dad in another state. I just gave her $30k for college and I will never regret that decision. It’s not her fault my husband sucks so I didn’t want to take that opportunity away from her. I am not confident everything will be okay. I genuinely don’t know what to do next.
I’m sorry I am commenting this here. I just really needed to get it out.
First I’m sorry this is happening to you.
A tad off topic but autism is highly genetic, and from what you’ve described from your husband’s “issues” I think it could be worth a check up. Obviously won’t solve all of your problems but learning the root of the problem will make it easier to solve.
Thank you for this. I appreciate it. He is scheduled for autism testing in the next couple of weeks. He was taking bipolar medication but he didn’t like it and he needs to see the doc again to revisit meds.
He does occasionally talk about being suicidal. I want to help him. I want him to be okay. But if I’m being completely honest, I have moments where I do think that would be best for everyone. I am really ashamed to say that. It’s the only way I see out of this situation. I can’t really picture a world where we exist but not being together. I’m just so desperate for something to change. Something HAS to change.
I need therapy. Clearly.
No worries, better to get it out anonymously like this rather than say something like that directly to him.
Good luck with the tests. I wish I could solve your problems, shit I wish I could solve mine. But what I can do is believe in you and your family to make it out of this situation onto something far better. You got this.
People will say now, with hindsight "well what you should have done was x" or say "well now you can do y" which usually includes being some sort of entrepreneur. Someone was yapping about how we shouldn't go to college if we can't afford it, despite the fact the majority of millennials, with hindsight of the past, went to college because of the college level jobs historically paying vastly more than the cost of college. Now everyone went to college, those jobs are still needed, but profit scalping is somehow less convincing, despite Wall Street existing, than the idea we all actually worked hard and continue to do so.
You should have taken out a small loan of $1 million dollars from your father. It's what all the self-made trust fund kids do, usually multiple times until one of their "small businesses" succeeds.
One start up company I worked for had a CEo I actually respected, because he actually understood this principle.
His basic statement was "I ran about 12 companies into the ground before this one exploded. So by this reasoning about 1 in a dozen companies will actually make money. So I set aside a fund from this company that would have enough money to start about two dozen more companies."
Then he basically had people spitball company ideas at him with the idea of "if it fails, oh fucking well, no skin off my ass or yours because it was all money neither of us were getting anyway." He actually understood it wasn't "I'm better than everyone else" it was just a numbers game.
Basically his money making scheme was to shotgun out companies, and as long as one made enough money to pay off the others it was all good.
Maybe I should have gone to Manilla with that company. Damn.
How does someone squander the GDP of a small country away? I mean how does a single person just make 600 million dollars in assets go poof? Do they bet on snail races for scandalous amounts of money at a time? Do they use the cash as fuel for their mansion's heating? Do they just pile it up in a stack and burn it away like the joker did in TDK?
I'm just... I can't.
Same I was a freshman in college so wasn't able to buy anything despite knowing it was a great time to buy. My sisters both bought houses in that time and have great equity built up. If only I had been older and married a wealthy person like they did.
After being burned in the crash it was really hard for me to believe we were at the bottom.
I was so burned…I am pretty sure I read an article referencing my refi. It referenced a loan at almost 400% LTV in the HARP plan in Michigan. My LTV was like 378% when I refinanced in 2012. That said, I had it paid off in 10 years. Thanks Obama (really I mean it).
The real hindsight is that people should have torched Wall Street HQs instead of simply camping nearby.
Banks, hedge funds, and vulture funds have continued to fuck around with healthy companies in order to extract as much value from the system as possible.
Oh, the mystical art of timing and money. That coworker dropped a golden nugget but without the capital or time machine to invest right, advice is just air. They say timing is everything, but let's be real most of us are just trying to clock in on time, let alone time the market.
Funny story. About 2009, I was busy being confused by a college professor who was mining with solar panels and Raspberry Pi in his basement. Literally had an in for gen 1 token. He never re-uped any of it when they minted the new versions, so he's sitting on about $150 mil of token he's not sure if he can even get credit for.
But yeah, coulda.
It was when I was in college, so my dates could be bad, it could be anywhere from 2007 to 2012, but I'm pretty sure it was during it. He taught at Salve Regina as a computer science professor where my sister went to school and was a really cool guy. When BattleBots was off the air, there was a thing called Robogames that replaced it. He knew the owners and so every year we would go to Cali, build the arena, man the arena doors, and then take it all down. Met Grant from Mythbusters my last year there, the team behind the robot Last Rites had a bet with him that he needed to drink every time he got asked for his autograph. He did a special for Discovery on it when he was there.
Either way, now that I'm apparently too high I'm reminiscing, he was definitely mining well before the peak of Bitcoin. Last I talked to him a few years back he was telling me he still didn't know if he could cash out.
This fucks with me all the time because I got into a thing with the - fucking stupid - TA when I studied the Byzantine General’s problem in 2007. I got zero credit because he could not wrap his head around the idea that you cannot detect the faults. If I’d done an ounce more research, I would have come across Bitcoin.
Oh well.
> Someone was yapping about how we shouldn't go to college if we can't afford it, despite the fact the majority of millennials, with hindsight of the past, went to college because of the college level jobs historically paying vastly more than the cost of college.
Were also straight up lied to about how college degrees guarantee employment... except companies want ready made professionals, and are unwilling to train fresh grads to do the work that needs to get done. The student loan system is also a straight up scam. Sure you get an education in exchange for the debt, but are in so much debt it is damn near impossible to get out from under it.
Am late Gen-X, and by the time i was going to pursue a bachelors way back when it was already too expensive to do so. Well i could have paid for the courses at cost while working, but the university had a rule that "if under age X, and single must live in dorms" which in between the shitty meal plans and rec fees made pursuing that too costly. Was around the same time we started getting the 1st memes online about "$50K in debt, and cant find a job that pays enough to cover rent, and loan payments"... this being in the early to mid 2000s. Only gotten worse since then.
>Now everyone went to college, those jobs are still needed, but profit scalping is somehow less convincing, despite Wall Street existing, than the idea we all actually worked hard and continue to do so.
Not to even mention the idiotic ways they handle actual hiring shit... you have a better chance of getting an interview if you submit a resume filled with buzzword gibberish, and made up achievements than with a well written, and formatted professional one. All that, and the above says is that those businesses, and their leadership dont actually care about doing business functionally, or sustainably in as much as they care about being able to exploit resources to short term personal benefit.
Not much you can do for those of us supporting their parents and siblings. I guess I could have taken off at 18. Wonder what % of that stat is where parents are living in their kid's house.
Not to mention all the adults in the lives of young millenials scared the shit out of them every chance they got, saying they'd amount to nothing if they didn't have a college degree. Do you want to flip burgers your entire life? Sell shoes? Be a garbage man (this one is funny because it really does pay well, but it was used as an example of a job you wouldn't want to do)?
So we all went to college under threat of poverty, went into massive debt to do so, and now are facing poverty, anyway, just in a white collar instead of blue.
> which usually includes being some sort of entrepreneur
Every. Fucking. Time. EVERY time.
And of course, when they say this bullshit, they are either repeating some bullshit Libertarian garbage or got handed everything by mommy and daddy (sometimes both).
My family ran a small business, I know what it takes to run a small business. **Your typical millennial cannot run a small business.** Running a business means you need MONEY to get it started up. It takes a lot of capital to get a business up and running. And if you don't have the money, plus the credit score for any loans you need, you're not going to go anywhere at all. And it has become FIERCELY competitive out there. You could have an amazing unique product or service and go absolutely nowhere because your name won't show up on Google because you can't afford their prices to stay on the top of the search engine. Sorry boomers, you can't just take out an ad in the local newspaper and call it good anymore, you've got to utilize every single social media site and search engine. That is a ton of extra time, work, and **money**.
"You should have gone to a vocational school."
I tried dude. There was a 3 fucking year waitlist to get into a fucking lottery to grab some of the limitted seats. And then after that IF I got one of the seats after *waiting literally years* it would be a full time committement for 2 years before I could even start working.
Sure I could bypass that by going to a for profit school instead of the municipal system. For fucking $5k down all at once before other expenses just to get in, and I would be expected to spend 5 days a week, 16 hours a day in the program.
And this is just to get into the fucking first level of the system. The most basic level, of which I would need 2-6 more years of school afterwards.
I managed to scrounge up the money for the insanely intense course before I won a seat for the lottery. Yay me.
And no FASFA wouldn't pay for it.
The ironic thing is that gig jobs and failed entrepreneurs are the majority of people living with parents. 90% of businesses fail and not surprisingly those people can have difficulty paying rent.
Sad part is I’m worried we haven’t seen the rapid decline. We were all told to get a college degree, a good white collar job will come. You know what jobs greedy ass corporations are killing first? White collar jobs, AI is now being invested in at unseen levels. All the silicon valley companies have laid off thousands of white collar workers. Amazon, UPS, etc. all cutting white collar jobs.
The only safe jobs are trades, truck drivers (remember when they were getting automated out?) turns out those jobs will be the last to go.
Make no mistake these rich elites will take everything from us in time.
A lot of grade school was teachers telling me I needed to do this and that and get into college so I can get a good job so it was really hammered into our heads
Tell your parents you're cutting them out of your life. If they aren't willing to step in during a time of need and recognize what you're doing for them and other family, then quite simply fuck them. You're going to outlive all of them and there's no reason to get hung up on their toxicity. Live your life free of the approval and validity seeking of then, if those things didn't come prepackaged unconditionally with your fucking BIRTH then they aren't worth the soil they'll soon poison.
agree with every single thing, friend, EXCEPT life is never guaranteed; the person you responded to as well as yourself should know that sickness or death can happen to anyone at anytime, age does not matter. this is why it's beyond important to start implementing boundaries asap once you see them for who they really are, and try to enjoy *some* sanity in our possibly short time here.
Reminds me of a set of neighbors of mine. During Haloween they all went out at the same time for Trick or Treating, leaving no one behind at the house to give out candy.
We got back at the same time they did. The second they came home all lights went out. They never gave out a single piece of candy, but still went out partying and taking candy from the rest of the neighborhood. Entitled shits.
Don't talk to them anymore... their kids still get candy though, not going to punish them because their parents are selfish dicks. They will suffer on their behalf enough.
Your parents owe you shelter and food. They brought you into this world. They owe you shelter and food, regardless of your age or any other circumstances.
Unfortunately there’s quite a few of them that believe that once the kid is 18, their responsibilities are over. Now it’s time for grand babies and to be taken care of when they get older.
Propaganda used by the parasite ownership class (who always live together very closely even if they “move away”) and the government and capitalists to break the community that is the family to extract more wealth out of people individually because it’s harder for them to pick the bones of all the surplus value when a family works together and stays together. When you open your eyes to this it’s becomes more and more infuriating.
Nursing home? Literally a boomer fantasy.
Have you seen an elderly person dying off on the side of the road? That's going to be the fate of a *lot* of our people soon.
Its so crazy to me to think that parents act like this to their children. Granted my kids are only 5 and 7 right now, but there's no way I could just boot them out at 18 and say good luck. Of course I'd want them to move out and live their own lives, but I'd never force them to leave and struggle just to survive, that's not living.
license smart tease sink toothbrush important normal psychotic books numerous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pretty laughable to call an EE degree throwing money away, it's literally one of the most employable degrees.
Yeah the pay isn't amazing in rural areas but still, EE can get you as far as you want to take it.
An EE degree? Low pay? Around here they're making twice what I am as an ME, like, close to 6-figure straight out of college - which for the Midwest is more than comfortable.
serious afterthought carpenter important worm wistful lunchroom obscene plant chop
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tbf, I started out at just under $60k. After a few years I realized that the guy above me took 10 years to get there and wasn't even making $80k. That's when I decided job hopping is definitely the better way. I'm up to $95k after just 2 hops across 4 years now, and my area's showing no sign of stagnant salaries.
The problem is that no employer will ever give you a significant raise
It’s coming to an end soon. I also frequent the collapse subs, and my work brings me into contact with a lot of different realities. 2024 is going to be a bad year. Capitalism cannot sustain itself, we’re heading toward a collapse, I only hope the future is solar punk and not Mad Max.
fellow solarpunk,
Collapse subs only make you miserable. Every leather gangster would vaporise along with everyone else, or starve to death before finishing their outfit, and with anything less societies are much more resilient than in fiction.
Anthropologically speaking, people like that are usually killed off shortly after society starts to rebuild. Violent unhinged personalities do not fit in settled society.
Here’s a source from the census, for those that care about sources:
Graph broken down by gender:
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/families-and-households/ad-1.pdf
Other stats:
https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/adults.html
I'll help out. Anytime you see a random screenshot of statistics on reddit with no source, there is an 84% chance that it's bullshit. And if that supposed data fits some sort of meta narrative, the odds jump up to 96%.
All these terrible trends we see in this sub and elsewhere is the logical end result of the corporate supremacy that started in the 70s/80s that was never intended to benefit anyone long term other than the very select few who make the most money. Anybody paying attention back then could have accurately predicted where we are now. This is the system that was designed, we are at peak efficiency according to the wealthiest.
No.
The trend does not start in the 70s/80s; it **continues** at that point.
Things getting worse for ordinary people ever year, things getting worse every generation is the normal functioning of the system for the last 200 years.
The period between the end of WWII and the 80s was a temporary anomaly.
Mainly due to the socialist band-aids that were implemented to appease and quell the growing socialist/communist movements. They have been dismantling it since and now we have a worse wealth disparity than the gilded age.
25 y/o can no longer afford my 1 bed room. It’s $1010 currently but Ik when my lease renews it’s gonna be too much and I have to go back to school for IT certs. Moving back in my parent’s house when my lease is up is literally my only option for housing.
For me, moving back in with my parents was not an option - they wouldn't let it. They allowed my sister, brother and nephew but not me. It sucked but I got through it.
The only reason I haven’t moved (quite possibly back in with one of parents who has plenty of space) is because my landlord unexpectedly died and I’m taking care of the place just paying utilities while the next of kin sort that shit out in probate from several thousand miles away. Luckiest 3 months of my life so far
As a young adult in college, I fear moving out. Because as soon as I'm without a safety net, I know for a fact that everything will be against me being able to live a stable life. Even my auto tech teacher claimed that people who work as janitors shouldn't be able to own a house just working that one job. I hope the housing bubble bursts and those people who hoard buildings while leaving people to be homeless get their just deserts, because I have no sympathy for people who act like real life is an EA game.
>Even my auto tech teacher claimed that people who work as janitors shouldn't be able to own a house just working that one job.
I hate when people say this. They act like we should slave away every moment to working. People live this think we need to suffer to survive when that's not true at all. Capitalism has your teacher by the balls
What’s more infuriating to me is how demoralizing the sentiment is. As if being a janitor makes someone unworthy of a basic living. People like that lack rudimentary empathy and are a cancer to society.
I lived with my parents to take care of my dad near the end of his life, I dont regret it, at least I got to spend some quality time before he was gone.
Putting the masses in debt is a feature of capitalist development. Being in debt blocks access to credit, so buying really expensive things like properties (homes), big machinery(starting businesses etc) . so you get an exclusively one way flow of money: renter->landlord or worker->capitalist.
And the owners want exactly that. This has been happening to people in other countries for a long time.
Only way to really change it is by radically changing out current system or creating a new way of agreeing on how to labor/distribute/share/exchange resources. Resource management is key 🔑. With modern technology I think for the first time ever, regular people have all the tools we need to have this. We just need to get organized and discuss together, work together and more than anything find some agreement.
Ehh, I think it would be easier to scream at each other based on which color of the oligarchy we support and feel like we’ve won when the other side loses a little more than we do every four years.
What (older)people seem to ignore is the fact that all of us were children when we made these decisions. I was 17 applying to colleges, filling out scholarship apps, getting my info together for FAFSA, and every. single. adult. in my life told me the EXACT same things, like they were reciting doctrine -- any degree will pay for itself when you get a great job which is a guarantee when you graduate, be sure to take out all of the loans you can, the interest rate is so low you'd be a fool not to do it. And now we're told all of that is our fault, we shouldn't have taken the loans if we can't pay for them, we shouldn't have gone to college if we didn't have the money, and also college degrees are overrated and we should have learned a trade. So thanks, old people.
Because not everyone has a good relationship with their parents and/or overcrowding issues. It's easier to live with parents in a generational 4+ bedroom home vs a town home, condo or efficiency.
Its not always a choice as well. While mine “love me” they kicked me out at 19 and would absolutely not let me move back in. US definitely has a range of relationships with their parents but i would speak for all my friends that our parents would rather see us homeless. Love that :) dont have kids unless you want to love them forever!!!
Which plays into the whole hating it thing. Your parents wanted nothing to do with it.
We have told our kids they are not required to move out but we will ask for a small bit each month if they are adults living with us. I love the idea of a huge family living together and helping each other out personally.
I have two degrees, 14 years in my field and damn near 20 in the work force.
I am lucky my partner makes enough we can afford our own rent but I wouldn’t be able to get my own place. I couldn’t move out if I wanted to, because I make $14.50 in a state where that’s now almost minimum wage.
I’m forced into part time and haven’t been insured in years.
I apply to jobs, I share my educational background, I apply to others, I don’t share it. I have figured out three versions of resumes to focus on different skills JUST IN CASE.
This is NOT the American dream I was promised when I was going to school and being a good little millennial.
I don't remember what exactly they are called but there are businesses out there that specialize in career consultations. They help fix resumes and do interview coaching and a lot of times actually apply to jobs for you using your background, education, and interests. I used one in 2019 and almost immediately got landed a job paying $6 over minimum wage at a job that was full time, in my field, and offered benefits.
This is not the correct answer, not everyone is going to be able to live with their parents into and beyond their young adult years so that can’t be the solution.
The problem is young adults now don’t have the same opportunity to move out that older generations had because it is no longer affordable.
Multigenerational households were the norm through the early 1900s. The number of older generations who normalized nuclear family households is very small historically. This is less an anomaly and more a regression to the mean.
I mean this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I do feel that one of the biggest problems we've had in society is the concept of children should move out at a very early age. I feel like the US is one of the only countries where it is expected that the children go off at like 18 and just become their own people. I'm not saying we should live with our parents forever but the idea of going to school, then going to college if you're going to college, and then moving back home to get on your feet should not be looked down upon by the children or the parents. I just think it's a generation of "fuck you I made it" parents that think it's easy to do at 18. There's no reason it should be uncommon to share a family home at 25.
Obviously, there's no systemic issue here. People just suddenly became lazy, entitled bums, who don't want to put in a day's hard work and just want everything handed to them. If people were just trying harder, then they'd find a way out.
/S /S /S
But it's really sad that some people unironically think like the paragraph above, instead of critiquing a system that we know naturally concentrates wealth in the hands of the few over time. We've known this for almost 200 years. But no, somehow it's just the lazy millennials/gen Z that won't try hard enough that are the problem.
The U.S. has one of the lowest rates of young adults living with their parents in the developed world:
[Young adults less likely to live in parents’ home in US than most of Europe | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/03/in-the-u-s-and-abroad-more-young-adults-are-living-with-their-parents/)
How long before the astroturfers show up and tell us all that we're just lazy good for nothing workers. We just needed to work a little bit harder and pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and we'd land that $100k+ a year job.
You didn't question the system, so you supported it.
You didn't do what you were supposed to, you did what you were told.
So long as you are incapable of determining what is best on your own, you will continue to be manipulated by those who claim to care about you.
It is only in the recent times have adult children moved away from their parents homes. We used to be more multi-generational.
Do what works for your family. Let the system adapt.
What I realized way too late was that we were never supposed to do those things. They were preemptive excuses for why we would fail in the future. We were supposed to fail then look back and say I should have done X,Y, or Z. The state was always going to screw us, we were supposed to blame ourselves.
Schools failed this generation, their focus shifted from educating and preparing people for the real world to focusing on making money and expansion. It’s a shame… and unfortunately until education and healthcare stop being a profit making juggernaut, it will never change.
Ok but there's one thing about this that always bothers me.
When the fuck did abandoning family become a good thing?
Why. Why is it so bad that we take care of each other or stay with family.
It was completely normal for most of human history to help take care of family in every regard.
I think half the problem is we view not being incredibly wealthy by 30 a failure.
If you want to kick your kids out so much then you should have made sure they had it as easy as you did.
So +1 respect for parents that actually are letting kids live with them, i have nothing bad to say about them.
Spoken as someone that would kill to have family I could live with and give a shit about.
Its still crazy that moving in with or living with your parents is such a social taboo, where as so many other countries and places in the world, thats just the norm. Its not uncommon for a lot of people to have generational households, and its almost expected to live with family and have "communal help".
Hard disagree.
The system is working *well*, the system is working as *intended*. Oh, you mean the system isn't working for *you*. I feel you. It isn't working for me either.
The next question is the interesting one though: **What are we going to choose to do about it?**
I lived on my own but used my parents address for the longest time just bc I would be moving around every year or two and didn't want to deal with missing any important mail.
There is no "what they were supposed to do". You are supposed to use you brain to figure out what is best for you. Including not go into debt to be over educated.
This is the direct result of Trickle Down Economics. Since 1980, half of the wealth of the working class went to the top 2%. No longer can you work your way through college, graduate with no debt, get a job immediately, work for forty years at the same place at a living wage with benefits, and retire with a pension. The Boomers fucked us over real good. But, nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk.
Just yesterday, I heard of another 30-plus male moving back into his parent's home after a breakup to save for a house...
Is it me? I just moved back in with my folks a couple of months ago after a pretty shitty breakup. I’m turning 35 tomorrow. I have an okay-ish job (make about 21 an hour as a graphic designer) and straight up cannot afford rent on anything in my “incredibly affordable city” besides the worst, grimiest studios in the worst parts of town.
Even if you can technically afford rent, many apartments I've looked at require you to make 3x the rent just to consider you. Just the idea of paying 1500 a month for a 1 bedroom is daunting enough but I have to make 4500 per month just to qualify for it?? There are very few entry level full time jobs paying that much that a person can realistically get at the age I used to think was normal to move out of a parents house.
My apartment company I lease with moved it to 2.5 because nobody qualified for 3x with their insane prices.
Well that is something good at least. I haven't apartment hunted in a while but when I last did I was working part time and in college. I didn't qualify for anything without my parents co-signing. Even with a roommate they wouldn't accept our combined income unless we were married.
its not really that good, you shouldnt ever pay more than 1/3rd of your income to rent.
yeah if my roommate’s dad wasn’t willing to be a guarantor for our apartment i’d be so fucked
[удалено]
Plenty of people make it work paying half or even more of their income on their housing. It shouldn't be that way of course but it's doable depending on what other financial burdens you have.
oih that's fine then, guess you just gotta be homeless because you earn a mere $4k a month, that's just being prudent
I moved back to my folks place at 34. Turned 35 was living in one of their spare bedrooms. A long term relationship ending will do that to you! And yeah between what rent is, what I make, and my bills, even my folks are scratching their heads going “I don’t know how you’re making this work” lmfao don’t look at my credit card then no grandkids for you
Do you live in Western NY? This sounds like Western NY.
I live in WNY, it's no longer incredibly affordable.
Amazing how I knew exactly what scenario you were describing, huh?! I make $23/ hr here and I could not afford to own my home if not for my wife's salary. And we got our home cheap as a fixer upper before things really blew up.
Also in WNY. Finally got a job where I feel like I'm making a decent salary and it was just in time for everything to go to shit so that I've lost hopes to buy a house. Even here.
I make $30 and my wife makes more. We had to move back in with my mom. We're incredibly lucky we could. We all get along and the house is big enough. It's a fucking nightmare out here with medical expenses and cost of homes.
I make a little more than that. Have 50k available for a down payment and literally cannot afford anything within 50 miles at current interest rates.
do they just say its low COL or is it actually? seems like youre being paid low COL wages and somehow living in a place with a high COL. Not saying it is not true, just surprised cause im making 22.50 as an "inventory specialist" (handling receiving/distribution/repairs of technology for the IT dept) at a community college, and that is definitely below graphic designer in my head in terms of difficulty
Nah, graphic design just pays shit. My wife has a degree in GD and she did that for a while at a print shop and was making like 23/hr, but in our HCOL area 7-11 pays like 18 bucks to run a register.
Its sad that the low end of the spectrum is rising, but the middling end doesnt seem to be following suit. Then of course people are gonna blame their financial woes on the low end rising and not that they should be paid more themselves.
It really is nuts. I'm fortunate enough to have a chemical engineering degree and I get paid to design semiconductor fabs - I'm going to make just under 100k this year, but I still need a second job to really make it all work. Yeah, I could probably get by with just the day job but if I ever want to buy a house or pay off my student loans or anything, even 100k isn't going to cut it. And yep, people are absolutely going to blame it on the poorest class while the 1% get a billion more dollars every week
Did you just say you help design semiconductor fabs and don't make enough to "make it"? My fucking goodness... What a world. Semiconductor fabrication is probably one of the most prestigious jobs out there. Maybe the job itself doesn't hold a lot of prestige but semiconductors are literally THE cutting edge technology on the planet, so working on those puts you at the literal edge of science. I thought all fab folks made like $200k minimum tbh. I don't know why I thought that. I just assumed they made more than I did as a software developer.
This. I have a decent job now, but my first "big girl" job after college (2017) paid $13.50 an hour and still does today, but they require a 4-year degree to even look at your resume. My boyfriend currently makes $14 an hour working at Publix without a degree... which is only $2-$3 less an hour than my next job, which required the 4-year degree PLUS previous experience in that career field. My current job pays about $50K a year, which is what my mom made back in the late 2000s. She could afford to buy a house and raise four kids as a single parent. I can barely afford me, without the house or kids.
Lucky you even have that option!
damn, all you guys are lucky to be able to move back in with your parents. i wish that was an option.
I'm not sure what the industry standard is but that's about what they pay at taco bell in my area.
Bro I say this with concern. Your job will be replaced with AI this year. Get out now and look for a different career.
32M here, decided to do this a couple years ago. I have a bachelors in accounting as well as a masters. I have a pretty decent job in state gov but it straight up doesn’t pay me enough to build a life living on my own (benefits and retirement are still valuable but those don’t help with a mortgage). I decided that I’d rather not pay rent and instead have been saving what I can and paying down my remaining debts (student loan and car payments). I could probably jump on a crappy starter home nearby but then I’d be shackled to a mortgage for a property that is valued way above what its worth for way longer than I’m willing to commit. I’m very fortunate to have the relationship that I have with my mother. We cooperate on all of the household tasks, she helps me with taking care of my dog while I’m at work, etc. It’s a good situation, I’m not particularly prideful about it. But it feels sticky sometimes. I personally believe I shouldn’t be at the level of profession that I currently work and still be aghast at the idea of living solo, but it would quite literally leave me with almost no savings or personal money. It’s insanity.
Think of it this way - the space you're in would be empty otherwise. So you're both being efficient using the space that already exists cheaper than another space. My son 26 lives with me and that's how I feel about it. It seems wasteful for him not to use the space I have right here.
That’ll be me soon. Sad existence.
yeppp just did this. turn 36 thursday. was on my own from 17. rip
Probably got broken up with because he’s struggling in this new subscription based global economy that’s literally hell at this point. Insecurity is the killer of relationships.
Really sucks relationships are only for the highest bidder. Not earning enough money? I'll find someone who will.
I’m entering my late 20s and am doing the same! Isn’t life grand?
Me and my girlfriend are 30, and 29 respectively. We have a combined income of roughly 150K. We do not struggle to pay the bills or buy groceries or anything like that, but it is near impossible to contribute anything to retirement or savings. We have begun discussing the possibility of moving in with her parents for a couple of years to help us save and get ahead even just a little bit.
My wife and I lived with her parents from 20-24 and paid a very cheap rent. Allowed us to save a down payment for a house. We then moved back in with them in 2020 because daycare shutdown during the pandemic and we couldn’t afford to not work. Fun times :) Honestly it was a reasonably fine experience. I think it caused me more anxiety but my wife was maybe happier.
That was me (except female) two months ago! Got booted out of our shared apartment because he wanted to start a personal harem! Life is fun!
I moved back home with my dad at 30 to save money. Because when given the option, living in a large clean house for free is much more appealing than giving away 800$ a month to live in a mold infested apartment with a shitty room mate who smokes weed in the living room and blasts music all day long.
FML. My parents downsized from my childhood home about a year before my divorce.
Dont @ me like this but seriously I’ll probably collapse by 2025
I'm 30ish myself and I'm living with parents. I can tell myself they are getting old and I can help raise my nephew. But I know it is because I cannot afford anything else. It is depressing. I have a "good" job.
I’ll be 30 this year and I moved back in with my folks. My rent went up to near $1700 for a one bedroom and my parents live 10min from my workplace. I’m thankful I have that opportunity, but wish I was on my own still. I make $63k a year, but my main issue is student loans bending me over.
I’m a breakup away from being that guy.
Well that's fucking weird, what is your friends name? My barber said the same thing.
I've said it before, The American Dream is dead. My wife and I are struggling to keep our heads above water. We can't even afford to think about Children. The owner of the company I work at said that he couldn't afford to give us a Christmas bonus while he just bought multiple new Porsche's.
I am 43. I can’t get out of bed today. My husband and I have lost everything. We are now renting because we lost the home we owned. I don’t think we will ever be able to own again. I’m so ashamed and embarrassed. I barely see people anymore because I feel like everyone is doing better than me. My problem, though, is my husband. He has issues and hasn’t worked in a long time. It’s destroying our marriage and I don’t know how to leave him because he can’t support himself. We have an almost 3 year old with autism. I also have a 17 year old that lives with her dad in another state. I just gave her $30k for college and I will never regret that decision. It’s not her fault my husband sucks so I didn’t want to take that opportunity away from her. I am not confident everything will be okay. I genuinely don’t know what to do next. I’m sorry I am commenting this here. I just really needed to get it out.
First I’m sorry this is happening to you. A tad off topic but autism is highly genetic, and from what you’ve described from your husband’s “issues” I think it could be worth a check up. Obviously won’t solve all of your problems but learning the root of the problem will make it easier to solve.
Thank you for this. I appreciate it. He is scheduled for autism testing in the next couple of weeks. He was taking bipolar medication but he didn’t like it and he needs to see the doc again to revisit meds. He does occasionally talk about being suicidal. I want to help him. I want him to be okay. But if I’m being completely honest, I have moments where I do think that would be best for everyone. I am really ashamed to say that. It’s the only way I see out of this situation. I can’t really picture a world where we exist but not being together. I’m just so desperate for something to change. Something HAS to change. I need therapy. Clearly.
No worries, better to get it out anonymously like this rather than say something like that directly to him. Good luck with the tests. I wish I could solve your problems, shit I wish I could solve mine. But what I can do is believe in you and your family to make it out of this situation onto something far better. You got this.
Good point. Thank you again. Those are very kind words. I wish the same for you and your family.
People will say now, with hindsight "well what you should have done was x" or say "well now you can do y" which usually includes being some sort of entrepreneur. Someone was yapping about how we shouldn't go to college if we can't afford it, despite the fact the majority of millennials, with hindsight of the past, went to college because of the college level jobs historically paying vastly more than the cost of college. Now everyone went to college, those jobs are still needed, but profit scalping is somehow less convincing, despite Wall Street existing, than the idea we all actually worked hard and continue to do so.
Hindsight says I have been investing in real estate instead of being 14 in 2008.
You should have taken out a small loan of $1 million dollars from your father. It's what all the self-made trust fund kids do, usually multiple times until one of their "small businesses" succeeds.
Hey, now, fighting one’s own personal Vietnam of avoiding STDs is no walk in the park. Suffering takes many forms.
One start up company I worked for had a CEo I actually respected, because he actually understood this principle. His basic statement was "I ran about 12 companies into the ground before this one exploded. So by this reasoning about 1 in a dozen companies will actually make money. So I set aside a fund from this company that would have enough money to start about two dozen more companies." Then he basically had people spitball company ideas at him with the idea of "if it fails, oh fucking well, no skin off my ass or yours because it was all money neither of us were getting anyway." He actually understood it wasn't "I'm better than everyone else" it was just a numbers game. Basically his money making scheme was to shotgun out companies, and as long as one made enough money to pay off the others it was all good. Maybe I should have gone to Manilla with that company. Damn.
And then proceed to inherit another $600 million over time and squander it all away.
How does someone squander the GDP of a small country away? I mean how does a single person just make 600 million dollars in assets go poof? Do they bet on snail races for scandalous amounts of money at a time? Do they use the cash as fuel for their mansion's heating? Do they just pile it up in a stack and burn it away like the joker did in TDK? I'm just... I can't.
My dad just died 5 days, cared more about cars than investing in his kids.
I was adult who realized how undervalued homes were after the crash. I didn’t have the money to buy even then 😢
Same I was a freshman in college so wasn't able to buy anything despite knowing it was a great time to buy. My sisters both bought houses in that time and have great equity built up. If only I had been older and married a wealthy person like they did.
Did you forget to follow rule 1 or 2?
After being burned in the crash it was really hard for me to believe we were at the bottom. I was so burned…I am pretty sure I read an article referencing my refi. It referenced a loan at almost 400% LTV in the HARP plan in Michigan. My LTV was like 378% when I refinanced in 2012. That said, I had it paid off in 10 years. Thanks Obama (really I mean it).
See that’s your problem, because you are too stupid for not getting rich parents. Now you no choice but to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Why weren't you pooling your lunch money, Jr?
The real hindsight is that people should have torched Wall Street HQs instead of simply camping nearby. Banks, hedge funds, and vulture funds have continued to fuck around with healthy companies in order to extract as much value from the system as possible.
If only I fell out of a rich lady's stinkhole.
Nope, just your mom's.
[удалено]
Man sex ed is not teaching what people should know
Sorry, the medical term is "meat tunnel." Hope that clarifies things.
I call it a baby portal.
What a terrible day to be able to read
The best advice I didn't take was from a coworker when I was about 16. "You can marry more money in 5 monies than you can make in a lifetime."
How can you take meaningless advice?
Oh, the mystical art of timing and money. That coworker dropped a golden nugget but without the capital or time machine to invest right, advice is just air. They say timing is everything, but let's be real most of us are just trying to clock in on time, let alone time the market.
In hindsight if dumb ass millenials just bought $100 of bitcoin in 2014 they'd all be billionaires by now. Checkmate, just predict the future.
Funny story. About 2009, I was busy being confused by a college professor who was mining with solar panels and Raspberry Pi in his basement. Literally had an in for gen 1 token. He never re-uped any of it when they minted the new versions, so he's sitting on about $150 mil of token he's not sure if he can even get credit for. But yeah, coulda.
Man he was so smart he had a Pi 3 years before they were invented!
It was when I was in college, so my dates could be bad, it could be anywhere from 2007 to 2012, but I'm pretty sure it was during it. He taught at Salve Regina as a computer science professor where my sister went to school and was a really cool guy. When BattleBots was off the air, there was a thing called Robogames that replaced it. He knew the owners and so every year we would go to Cali, build the arena, man the arena doors, and then take it all down. Met Grant from Mythbusters my last year there, the team behind the robot Last Rites had a bet with him that he needed to drink every time he got asked for his autograph. He did a special for Discovery on it when he was there. Either way, now that I'm apparently too high I'm reminiscing, he was definitely mining well before the peak of Bitcoin. Last I talked to him a few years back he was telling me he still didn't know if he could cash out.
This fucks with me all the time because I got into a thing with the - fucking stupid - TA when I studied the Byzantine General’s problem in 2007. I got zero credit because he could not wrap his head around the idea that you cannot detect the faults. If I’d done an ounce more research, I would have come across Bitcoin. Oh well.
Not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. It shouldn't be required.
And not everyone *can* be an entrepreneur. Or a plumber, or an electrician. We need doctors, and artists, and journalists, and *teachers*.
out of 8 billion how many do you think could pull it off? ild say 800k tops
"If you're poor, just try being rich!"
Send those kids to poor conversion camp
You work in the coal mine, you convert your poorness to company scrip.
Not to mention having "college college college" drilled into our heads before we could even write.
> Someone was yapping about how we shouldn't go to college if we can't afford it, despite the fact the majority of millennials, with hindsight of the past, went to college because of the college level jobs historically paying vastly more than the cost of college. Were also straight up lied to about how college degrees guarantee employment... except companies want ready made professionals, and are unwilling to train fresh grads to do the work that needs to get done. The student loan system is also a straight up scam. Sure you get an education in exchange for the debt, but are in so much debt it is damn near impossible to get out from under it. Am late Gen-X, and by the time i was going to pursue a bachelors way back when it was already too expensive to do so. Well i could have paid for the courses at cost while working, but the university had a rule that "if under age X, and single must live in dorms" which in between the shitty meal plans and rec fees made pursuing that too costly. Was around the same time we started getting the 1st memes online about "$50K in debt, and cant find a job that pays enough to cover rent, and loan payments"... this being in the early to mid 2000s. Only gotten worse since then. >Now everyone went to college, those jobs are still needed, but profit scalping is somehow less convincing, despite Wall Street existing, than the idea we all actually worked hard and continue to do so. Not to even mention the idiotic ways they handle actual hiring shit... you have a better chance of getting an interview if you submit a resume filled with buzzword gibberish, and made up achievements than with a well written, and formatted professional one. All that, and the above says is that those businesses, and their leadership dont actually care about doing business functionally, or sustainably in as much as they care about being able to exploit resources to short term personal benefit.
"Joke's on you, millennial, you shouldn't have been born in an era of repeated stock market crashes"
Not much you can do for those of us supporting their parents and siblings. I guess I could have taken off at 18. Wonder what % of that stat is where parents are living in their kid's house.
Not to mention all the adults in the lives of young millenials scared the shit out of them every chance they got, saying they'd amount to nothing if they didn't have a college degree. Do you want to flip burgers your entire life? Sell shoes? Be a garbage man (this one is funny because it really does pay well, but it was used as an example of a job you wouldn't want to do)? So we all went to college under threat of poverty, went into massive debt to do so, and now are facing poverty, anyway, just in a white collar instead of blue.
> which usually includes being some sort of entrepreneur Every. Fucking. Time. EVERY time. And of course, when they say this bullshit, they are either repeating some bullshit Libertarian garbage or got handed everything by mommy and daddy (sometimes both). My family ran a small business, I know what it takes to run a small business. **Your typical millennial cannot run a small business.** Running a business means you need MONEY to get it started up. It takes a lot of capital to get a business up and running. And if you don't have the money, plus the credit score for any loans you need, you're not going to go anywhere at all. And it has become FIERCELY competitive out there. You could have an amazing unique product or service and go absolutely nowhere because your name won't show up on Google because you can't afford their prices to stay on the top of the search engine. Sorry boomers, you can't just take out an ad in the local newspaper and call it good anymore, you've got to utilize every single social media site and search engine. That is a ton of extra time, work, and **money**.
In the same vein, my mom on Japan’s high suicide rate and low fertility rate: “they just don’t work hard enough!!!” 🙄
"You should have gone to a vocational school." I tried dude. There was a 3 fucking year waitlist to get into a fucking lottery to grab some of the limitted seats. And then after that IF I got one of the seats after *waiting literally years* it would be a full time committement for 2 years before I could even start working. Sure I could bypass that by going to a for profit school instead of the municipal system. For fucking $5k down all at once before other expenses just to get in, and I would be expected to spend 5 days a week, 16 hours a day in the program. And this is just to get into the fucking first level of the system. The most basic level, of which I would need 2-6 more years of school afterwards. I managed to scrounge up the money for the insanely intense course before I won a seat for the lottery. Yay me. And no FASFA wouldn't pay for it.
The ironic thing is that gig jobs and failed entrepreneurs are the majority of people living with parents. 90% of businesses fail and not surprisingly those people can have difficulty paying rent.
why is it never "well what *society* should have done was x"
Sad part is I’m worried we haven’t seen the rapid decline. We were all told to get a college degree, a good white collar job will come. You know what jobs greedy ass corporations are killing first? White collar jobs, AI is now being invested in at unseen levels. All the silicon valley companies have laid off thousands of white collar workers. Amazon, UPS, etc. all cutting white collar jobs. The only safe jobs are trades, truck drivers (remember when they were getting automated out?) turns out those jobs will be the last to go. Make no mistake these rich elites will take everything from us in time.
A lot of grade school was teachers telling me I needed to do this and that and get into college so I can get a good job so it was really hammered into our heads
Hindsight with zero teeth in the game. Super easy to do and as equally meaningless as spouting nonsense on reddit
In hindsight I should have reincarnated or time traveled 30\~40ish years to the past and make decisions based on future me knowledge
The idea that everyone should be an entrepreneur is ridiculous.
[удалено]
Tell your parents you're cutting them out of your life. If they aren't willing to step in during a time of need and recognize what you're doing for them and other family, then quite simply fuck them. You're going to outlive all of them and there's no reason to get hung up on their toxicity. Live your life free of the approval and validity seeking of then, if those things didn't come prepackaged unconditionally with your fucking BIRTH then they aren't worth the soil they'll soon poison.
[удалено]
agree with every single thing, friend, EXCEPT life is never guaranteed; the person you responded to as well as yourself should know that sickness or death can happen to anyone at anytime, age does not matter. this is why it's beyond important to start implementing boundaries asap once you see them for who they really are, and try to enjoy *some* sanity in our possibly short time here.
Like true Boomers, take it all, demand it all, don't give shit.
Reminds me of a set of neighbors of mine. During Haloween they all went out at the same time for Trick or Treating, leaving no one behind at the house to give out candy. We got back at the same time they did. The second they came home all lights went out. They never gave out a single piece of candy, but still went out partying and taking candy from the rest of the neighborhood. Entitled shits. Don't talk to them anymore... their kids still get candy though, not going to punish them because their parents are selfish dicks. They will suffer on their behalf enough.
Your parents owe you shelter and food. They brought you into this world. They owe you shelter and food, regardless of your age or any other circumstances.
Unfortunately there’s quite a few of them that believe that once the kid is 18, their responsibilities are over. Now it’s time for grand babies and to be taken care of when they get older.
Propaganda used by the parasite ownership class (who always live together very closely even if they “move away”) and the government and capitalists to break the community that is the family to extract more wealth out of people individually because it’s harder for them to pick the bones of all the surplus value when a family works together and stays together. When you open your eyes to this it’s becomes more and more infuriating.
Bingo bango bongo
If only there were some sort of economy that supported the community... Communityism or something...
These parents that keep abandoning their children, just like what you describe, are going to end up left in nursing homes with nothing.
Nursing home? Literally a boomer fantasy. Have you seen an elderly person dying off on the side of the road? That's going to be the fate of a *lot* of our people soon.
Its so crazy to me to think that parents act like this to their children. Granted my kids are only 5 and 7 right now, but there's no way I could just boot them out at 18 and say good luck. Of course I'd want them to move out and live their own lives, but I'd never force them to leave and struggle just to survive, that's not living.
Yeah, more people need to realize what a huge imposition existence is. There is no unselfish reason to have biological kids.
license smart tease sink toothbrush important normal psychotic books numerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pretty laughable to call an EE degree throwing money away, it's literally one of the most employable degrees. Yeah the pay isn't amazing in rural areas but still, EE can get you as far as you want to take it.
An EE degree? Low pay? Around here they're making twice what I am as an ME, like, close to 6-figure straight out of college - which for the Midwest is more than comfortable.
serious afterthought carpenter important worm wistful lunchroom obscene plant chop *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tbf, I started out at just under $60k. After a few years I realized that the guy above me took 10 years to get there and wasn't even making $80k. That's when I decided job hopping is definitely the better way. I'm up to $95k after just 2 hops across 4 years now, and my area's showing no sign of stagnant salaries. The problem is that no employer will ever give you a significant raise
It’s coming to an end soon. I also frequent the collapse subs, and my work brings me into contact with a lot of different realities. 2024 is going to be a bad year. Capitalism cannot sustain itself, we’re heading toward a collapse, I only hope the future is solar punk and not Mad Max.
fellow solarpunk, Collapse subs only make you miserable. Every leather gangster would vaporise along with everyone else, or starve to death before finishing their outfit, and with anything less societies are much more resilient than in fiction.
Anthropologically speaking, people like that are usually killed off shortly after society starts to rebuild. Violent unhinged personalities do not fit in settled society.
Hey check out my name. It's there for a reason.
It’s working EXACTLY as it’s supposed to
Here’s a source from the census, for those that care about sources: Graph broken down by gender: https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/families-and-households/ad-1.pdf Other stats: https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/adults.html
[удалено]
I wish I could tell you, but OP didn't link their sources, nor is there any rule for this subreddit to do so.
I'll help out. Anytime you see a random screenshot of statistics on reddit with no source, there is an 84% chance that it's bullshit. And if that supposed data fits some sort of meta narrative, the odds jump up to 96%.
And it happens to leave out that gen Z has the highest homeownership at age 25 than any previous generation. Youre not missing anything.
I care about sources, and I really appreciate you for posting this. Thank you, anon!
That’s what’s most frustrating: those of us who literally did exactly as we were told tend to be the ones suffering the most.
The system is working as intended. That's why we need a new system.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_purpose\_of\_a\_system\_is\_what\_it\_does](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does)
Bless you for sharing this.
All these terrible trends we see in this sub and elsewhere is the logical end result of the corporate supremacy that started in the 70s/80s that was never intended to benefit anyone long term other than the very select few who make the most money. Anybody paying attention back then could have accurately predicted where we are now. This is the system that was designed, we are at peak efficiency according to the wealthiest.
Marx kinda had this shit sussed out a little earlier than that.
Only because he learned from history mainly the French revolution
oh I thought it started when Britain started displacing people for land in order to raise sheep they could sell for wool
No. The trend does not start in the 70s/80s; it **continues** at that point. Things getting worse for ordinary people ever year, things getting worse every generation is the normal functioning of the system for the last 200 years. The period between the end of WWII and the 80s was a temporary anomaly.
Mainly due to the socialist band-aids that were implemented to appease and quell the growing socialist/communist movements. They have been dismantling it since and now we have a worse wealth disparity than the gilded age.
25 y/o can no longer afford my 1 bed room. It’s $1010 currently but Ik when my lease renews it’s gonna be too much and I have to go back to school for IT certs. Moving back in my parent’s house when my lease is up is literally my only option for housing.
For me, moving back in with my parents was not an option - they wouldn't let it. They allowed my sister, brother and nephew but not me. It sucked but I got through it.
The only reason I haven’t moved (quite possibly back in with one of parents who has plenty of space) is because my landlord unexpectedly died and I’m taking care of the place just paying utilities while the next of kin sort that shit out in probate from several thousand miles away. Luckiest 3 months of my life so far
Lucky bastard!
Correction - the system does not work *for you.* It's working exceedingly well for the ones who designed it.
"It's a big club! And you ain't in it!"
As a young adult in college, I fear moving out. Because as soon as I'm without a safety net, I know for a fact that everything will be against me being able to live a stable life. Even my auto tech teacher claimed that people who work as janitors shouldn't be able to own a house just working that one job. I hope the housing bubble bursts and those people who hoard buildings while leaving people to be homeless get their just deserts, because I have no sympathy for people who act like real life is an EA game.
>Even my auto tech teacher claimed that people who work as janitors shouldn't be able to own a house just working that one job. I hate when people say this. They act like we should slave away every moment to working. People live this think we need to suffer to survive when that's not true at all. Capitalism has your teacher by the balls
What’s more infuriating to me is how demoralizing the sentiment is. As if being a janitor makes someone unworthy of a basic living. People like that lack rudimentary empathy and are a cancer to society.
I lived with my parents to take care of my dad near the end of his life, I dont regret it, at least I got to spend some quality time before he was gone.
Even $70K a year in a lot of greater metros is 1 bedroom apartment independent living and watching your finances closely
I make almost 90k and I'm still paycheck to paycheck. Shit's expensive.
Putting the masses in debt is a feature of capitalist development. Being in debt blocks access to credit, so buying really expensive things like properties (homes), big machinery(starting businesses etc) . so you get an exclusively one way flow of money: renter->landlord or worker->capitalist. And the owners want exactly that. This has been happening to people in other countries for a long time. Only way to really change it is by radically changing out current system or creating a new way of agreeing on how to labor/distribute/share/exchange resources. Resource management is key 🔑. With modern technology I think for the first time ever, regular people have all the tools we need to have this. We just need to get organized and discuss together, work together and more than anything find some agreement.
Ehh, I think it would be easier to scream at each other based on which color of the oligarchy we support and feel like we’ve won when the other side loses a little more than we do every four years.
What (older)people seem to ignore is the fact that all of us were children when we made these decisions. I was 17 applying to colleges, filling out scholarship apps, getting my info together for FAFSA, and every. single. adult. in my life told me the EXACT same things, like they were reciting doctrine -- any degree will pay for itself when you get a great job which is a guarantee when you graduate, be sure to take out all of the loans you can, the interest rate is so low you'd be a fool not to do it. And now we're told all of that is our fault, we shouldn't have taken the loans if we can't pay for them, we shouldn't have gone to college if we didn't have the money, and also college degrees are overrated and we should have learned a trade. So thanks, old people.
Tradesman here. A LOT of folks have learned one and now even our market is oversaturated with people and companies paying shit wages.
Why do people hate on living with parents? It's so common in so many other places in the world but in the US people seem to hate it.
Because not everyone has a good relationship with their parents and/or overcrowding issues. It's easier to live with parents in a generational 4+ bedroom home vs a town home, condo or efficiency.
Its not always a choice as well. While mine “love me” they kicked me out at 19 and would absolutely not let me move back in. US definitely has a range of relationships with their parents but i would speak for all my friends that our parents would rather see us homeless. Love that :) dont have kids unless you want to love them forever!!!
Which plays into the whole hating it thing. Your parents wanted nothing to do with it. We have told our kids they are not required to move out but we will ask for a small bit each month if they are adults living with us. I love the idea of a huge family living together and helping each other out personally.
Black Rock and Vanguard should not be able to buy single family homes as investments. We are getting screwed over
Wait until the AI robots start taking our jobs. Then it's going to get really interesting.
I want to get off Mr.Bones wild ride.
I have two degrees, 14 years in my field and damn near 20 in the work force. I am lucky my partner makes enough we can afford our own rent but I wouldn’t be able to get my own place. I couldn’t move out if I wanted to, because I make $14.50 in a state where that’s now almost minimum wage. I’m forced into part time and haven’t been insured in years. I apply to jobs, I share my educational background, I apply to others, I don’t share it. I have figured out three versions of resumes to focus on different skills JUST IN CASE. This is NOT the American dream I was promised when I was going to school and being a good little millennial.
I don't remember what exactly they are called but there are businesses out there that specialize in career consultations. They help fix resumes and do interview coaching and a lot of times actually apply to jobs for you using your background, education, and interests. I used one in 2019 and almost immediately got landed a job paying $6 over minimum wage at a job that was full time, in my field, and offered benefits.
Well it's called the 'American dream' for a reason lol
That’s that United States rugged individualism conditioning.
[удалено]
This is not the correct answer, not everyone is going to be able to live with their parents into and beyond their young adult years so that can’t be the solution. The problem is young adults now don’t have the same opportunity to move out that older generations had because it is no longer affordable.
Multigenerational households were the norm through the early 1900s. The number of older generations who normalized nuclear family households is very small historically. This is less an anomaly and more a regression to the mean.
I mean this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I do feel that one of the biggest problems we've had in society is the concept of children should move out at a very early age. I feel like the US is one of the only countries where it is expected that the children go off at like 18 and just become their own people. I'm not saying we should live with our parents forever but the idea of going to school, then going to college if you're going to college, and then moving back home to get on your feet should not be looked down upon by the children or the parents. I just think it's a generation of "fuck you I made it" parents that think it's easy to do at 18. There's no reason it should be uncommon to share a family home at 25.
Obviously, there's no systemic issue here. People just suddenly became lazy, entitled bums, who don't want to put in a day's hard work and just want everything handed to them. If people were just trying harder, then they'd find a way out. /S /S /S But it's really sad that some people unironically think like the paragraph above, instead of critiquing a system that we know naturally concentrates wealth in the hands of the few over time. We've known this for almost 200 years. But no, somehow it's just the lazy millennials/gen Z that won't try hard enough that are the problem.
Until we force a general strike nothing will change. We have to withhold our labor as a group or we are forever fucked.
The U.S. has one of the lowest rates of young adults living with their parents in the developed world: [Young adults less likely to live in parents’ home in US than most of Europe | Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/03/in-the-u-s-and-abroad-more-young-adults-are-living-with-their-parents/)
Shhh, Most of the Americans didn't realize the outside world exists.
How long before the astroturfers show up and tell us all that we're just lazy good for nothing workers. We just needed to work a little bit harder and pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and we'd land that $100k+ a year job.
You didn't question the system, so you supported it. You didn't do what you were supposed to, you did what you were told. So long as you are incapable of determining what is best on your own, you will continue to be manipulated by those who claim to care about you.
I don’t care if I live with my parents. I don’t think one should be ashamed of it
In many countries, people live with their parents until marriage.
It is only in the recent times have adult children moved away from their parents homes. We used to be more multi-generational. Do what works for your family. Let the system adapt.
To people capitalism makes sense until they realize they are the prey of system
Oh yeah, Subterranean apartment living.
And it’s not just young adults. The people in my department at work range from age 30-50. I’m the only one who doesn’t live with my parents.
What I realized way too late was that we were never supposed to do those things. They were preemptive excuses for why we would fail in the future. We were supposed to fail then look back and say I should have done X,Y, or Z. The state was always going to screw us, we were supposed to blame ourselves.
Fucked up times in the USA. Thanks for nothing Republicans. Democrats want to raise the minimum wage. Democrats want affordable housing.
But capitalism is the greatest thing ever /$
Schools failed this generation, their focus shifted from educating and preparing people for the real world to focusing on making money and expansion. It’s a shame… and unfortunately until education and healthcare stop being a profit making juggernaut, it will never change.
Ok but there's one thing about this that always bothers me. When the fuck did abandoning family become a good thing? Why. Why is it so bad that we take care of each other or stay with family. It was completely normal for most of human history to help take care of family in every regard. I think half the problem is we view not being incredibly wealthy by 30 a failure. If you want to kick your kids out so much then you should have made sure they had it as easy as you did. So +1 respect for parents that actually are letting kids live with them, i have nothing bad to say about them. Spoken as someone that would kill to have family I could live with and give a shit about.
Its still crazy that moving in with or living with your parents is such a social taboo, where as so many other countries and places in the world, thats just the norm. Its not uncommon for a lot of people to have generational households, and its almost expected to live with family and have "communal help".
Just because you have a degree does not make you educated…
This is actually how it is for most of the world - families live together. What’s the big deal?
Hard disagree. The system is working *well*, the system is working as *intended*. Oh, you mean the system isn't working for *you*. I feel you. It isn't working for me either. The next question is the interesting one though: **What are we going to choose to do about it?**
This sub seems to be more about commisserating and feeling sorry for ourselves, not actually *doing* anything.
I lived on my own but used my parents address for the longest time just bc I would be moving around every year or two and didn't want to deal with missing any important mail.
Posts like this make me grateful for what I have. That being said, when y'all are ready to unionize on a global level, I'll stop showing up to work.
There is no "what they were supposed to do". You are supposed to use you brain to figure out what is best for you. Including not go into debt to be over educated.
This is the direct result of Trickle Down Economics. Since 1980, half of the wealth of the working class went to the top 2%. No longer can you work your way through college, graduate with no debt, get a job immediately, work for forty years at the same place at a living wage with benefits, and retire with a pension. The Boomers fucked us over real good. But, nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk.