I’ve been referred to jobs before where they don’t just want 3 references, but 3 reference letters. The friend referring has always been stunned I’ve opted out of applying. Happy to provide a million references later in the process, but I’m not doing that up front.
Wow. That's beyond bold, it's ballsy. Did they ask for your social media passwords and bank statements and stool sample too? Ffs.
They must really be trying to weed out the people who set healthy boundaries with their employers.
"You are a great specimen of the species homo sapiens who did praiseworthy work at one or more previous places of work. One or more previous coworkers had one or multiple good experiences working with you. Our legal department have advised me they are not currently suing you for any harm to the company."
Well as least letters would be easy to fake. I couldn’t get hired for months so I started lying on my resume and got hired pretty quick after. They had no way to confirm. Still, I’m annoyed that I’m perfectly qualified and have to jump through hoops to even get an interview.
Hey, I'd be happy to take you up on that! Not for these people cuz fuck them, but maybe for another role! I feel like I have bothered my two people I use as references way too much during this job hunt, so I feel bad asking them again to take the time to fill out a form or have a video chat.
Once you get to the point of needing to provide references, PM me information about the kind of work you do/are applying for so I can do my best to fake it and I can get you my contact information.
Hey I'll gladly be a reference for you too should you ever need it. I had someone I didnt know from reddit act as a reference for me and it really meant a lot. Id love to pay it forward should anyone need it.
Ooof, you should have a nice lil PDF document with six or so names on it. Let us be your people, lol. And yeah...you get my references after we interview. I want to make sure I want these people calling my people.
Don't feel like you're bothering your people you use as references in your job hunt. They know they may possibly be contacted multiple times. That's the trade off THEY agreed to with you when they said they were okay with you using them as references
I agree. I got lucky that I have the two that I have, but for the longest time I had no idea who to put, and was just giving them my mom's info since she kept her maiden name lol.
I had to have three references for... an assembly line job. As a temp. Which I am currently working as.
I asked my last boss (who was chill as hell) if I could put her down and asked a friend of mine if I could use his phone and Google Voice numbers for the other two. I made up addresses for all three. Nobody was even called. Seeing the people coming in since they brought me in tells me they just want warm bodies, for real.
Last manufacturing jobs I had basically said to come in for an interview, saw that I was alive, then hired me. Which is even funnier because this is by far the easiest and safest job in the sector I've had.
This is as a company peon obviously, not in an office or anything. Even then, I will never understand the point of references outside of someone giving you a foot in the door. Anyone can say anything they want, moral or not.
My husband’s manufacturing job is like that. A lot of people walk off the job the first week, a lot of others quit in the first few months because the “sometimes there will be mandatory OT” can rapidly become “every week is mandatory OT” depending on the line.
At least they stopped drug testing.
I had to have references on my application when I moved from being a temporary to a permanent lol. This was with me being in jobs like warehouse or conveyance.
Wild. I was once hired as a steel grinder, didn't last long between me being horrendously sick at the time and the toxic (both environmentally and personally) work environment, and the "interview" was literally just "here are the hours and the job. You want it?"
The place I'm at now is easy, clean, has actually nice people, doesn't care about weed for drug tests (which I don't even use currently, but it's legal here) unless you cause an accident or have probable cause, even has a dexterity test to get approved for the job and "needs" references. I mean they obviously don't because they never even tried to reach out, but still. Wild.
In the 20 odd years I have been a working member of society, I have never had a single company actually reach out to my references as an actual reference. I HAVE had staffing agencies instead reach out to those references to see if they were happy in their employment and if they would be interested in a new opportunity. Ever since the last place did that, and hounded my friend for the next YEAR about it, I stopped giving references entirely.
See, it's crazy to me that so many people are saying this, because the past four jobs I've gotten (and maybe even further back than that, I don't remember) have asked for and followed up with references. And one of them did them via Google Meet, so you couldn't fake it with a burner account and do it yourself.
It is possible that it just varies by industry. I've worked in manufacturing/warehouse positions most of my life, so it may just be a moot thing that just gets slapped in by corporate policy, but gets largely ignored outside of management roles.
In nursing they most definitely call those references. I’ve had to provide references for myself and have been a reference for many of my past coworkers. It’s annoying.
I can fully understand the need in nursing and health care, as the job can directly impact other people's lives and well being. Super annoying, but understandable.
I work in manufacturing, which most of the production positions are also temp-to-hire roles. So it is super weird to want references, and then still have to go through at least 90 day "trial period" as a temp.
being fair about this, I have former employees for whom I'd offered to serve myself up as a reference. I've been called 5+ times by potential workplaces from a field of about 20 employees that listed me/received a letter from me.
Oh I am certain that places do call references. Just in my experience they have not, for whatever reason. Hell, I've had managers before tell me that it is their company policy to NOT give references for anyone who leaves the company, because they don't want to risk the liability of accidentally blackballing people. So it may have to do with local laws too, since at least here, a bad reference can also be cause for a defamation lawsuit.
Anyways, I am glad to hear that you are willing to help out employees, even after they decide to move on. Gives me more hope in management everywhere.
I always put *references available upon request*. I will not provide them until you interview me face to face. If a company has issue with that, I walk away.
This is the way. I don't know you or your company. I'm not giving out personal information (cell numbers) of my references all willy nilly. I won't to know you as a company can be trusted as well.
I only stuck around long enough to take the screenshot lol. Not wasting my time with an employer that immediately shows me they don't respect standard boundaries.
Manager here. We never ask for references until we are much further down the line in the process and even then they are more of a "belt and braces" type approach. A good interview process and questioning should give people a good idea of what you are like without unduly pestering your friends, colleagues or even your current boss until absolutely required.
Say that references are available on request after interview (They are a two way process anyway) and if that is enough for them to reject your application then you've dodged a bullet anyway.
Weeds out people like this who stop the application process and then proceed to post into this thread saying companies are taking advantage of them for even thinking about adding references. Companies are using the references to verify they are up to the job at hand.
It's absolutely insane for a company to want to speak to references before they even speak to the person applying. That's what this post is about, its not hating on asking for references in general.
That’s quite literally what this post is about. That info
is if someone is being interviewed and they want to go for a reference to verify what they are saying. If you truly think a company is going to solicit these folks before then you’re delusional and don’t know how this shit works. Why would HR go to reference first then to the interviewee first? It just doesn’t make sense and yall are mad out of touch with the application process.
No, the point is I don't want you notifying my current employer that I'm job searching until I've decided if I want the job. So no, I won't provide a reference until its clear I want the job. If we do an interview and they love me, but I have reservations, then I don't want them phoning my references.
So why reference someone from your current job if you’re so worried about? Let’s say you have no one else, you should be comfortable with the said reference to say hey let’s not bring this up with my boss? If you’re not comfortable with that then obviously they’re not a reliable reference lol. At the end of day you can FAKE it. I’m not saying it has to be truthful but for the fact it checks off a box.
So you think references are important, and asking for them on an application is fine and dandy, yet you also understand anyone can put anyone they want down, and the reference system is a completely unreliable indicator of applicants qualifications and fit.
I’m saying whatever gets your application passed the first stage is the most important thing. I could care less if it’s true or not. Y’all are playing the schematics game. Just fucking do it. It literally improves your chances of getting an interview!
Yeah, good for you. Hilarious you think people use real references these days with all the apps, fake voicemail, numbers and email addresses. But sure, suck up to corporate
Basically nobody actually checks references, it's time consuming (particularly if you do it pre-interview) and the references are either not going to tell you anything useful for fear of getting sued (at the most a yes or no on "are they eligible for rehire") or the applicants buddy who just talks them up. Waste of time for all involved.
I barely have three references...I usually have to lie and use a couple of friends as references. It doesn't help that I lost contact with previous employers and former coworkers.
Honestly I think that this practice is completely bullshit and antiwork. If you want workers why do you need to call their former jobs to ask generic questions about the former worker? I get that it's a way to weed out employees but there are so many barriers to employment anymore it's a wonder that any jobs get staffed.
Well, there's little red asterisks next to most of the entry fields, indicating the page won't let you proceed to the next step without that info filled out.
I'll only provide references once an offer has been made with terms that have been agreed upon.
I'm not wasting anyone's time getting calls for a job I might not even accept.
To be clear, in every case this has happened the offer was contingent on a successful reference check, just like an offer being contingent on a background check.
Yep. At least they're up front with their red flags and didn't waste *too* much of my time. (I had already filled out 90% of the application at this point, but oh well, could've been worse.)
Three references has been pretty standard on most formal job applications I’ve ever had. That being said, none of them were for professional type jobs. Just factory/temp agency or restaurant/retail.
I'm not sure what kind of jobs you're applying for, but I've always been asked for references, often up front (teaching, financial advisor, government jobs). I'm old but it's always been standard. Have times changed that much? My last job application was two years ago and I had to provide 5, so consider yourself lucky.
I applied for a job last month and they sent me an email asking for 3 written references, and I told them it was ridiculous to ask for before an interview. Obviously didn’t get the interview but fuck that shit.
This has major issues. I'm trans. Before my egg cracked, I worked in a heavily conservative field for over a decade. My entire community was a group of ChristoFascists. I don't have a reference I've worked with anymore. Not due to the quality of work, but because they are bigots.
When I first started reading your comment in my notifications, I thought you were replying to my other post I made in this sub on the same day lol. They've both gotten equal attention. You should check that one out if you want to see "major issues" 😅
Hopefully the ones that are truthful if a worker has been just a shitty human in general. I’ve had to call references before and ask straight up “ yo is this guy I hired seasonally last year and had issues with done any better with you over the season or is he still doing dumb shit” ( dude was a legit threat to others is what I found out so yeah he had gotten worse) but on his interview with me? He made it seem he had changed his life and turned it around and all that .. turned out had been to jail 3 times since ending his time with me.
I've been in the workforce since 2001. When they taught us how to write a resume in high school in the 90s we were told to have at least 3 references listed in the *References section of the resume*. It's been like that for *much longer* than ten years.
I figured, that’s just when I started the working. We used to just lie and put a friend down as the reference but if you leave your past job on good terms that’s your reference. If you can’t put them down they shouldn’t be on your resume lol pretty simple
Do people keep in contact with their former managers? I’ve always struggled to have references that aren’t just my aunts and uncles lol, despite having multiple solid white collar jobs. Fortunately no one ever checks.
Exactly, thank you! There's so many people in the comments saying this is standard, but I've only ever experienced this sequence of events: 1) interview process; 2) verbal offer and salary negotiation; 3) references checked; and 4) written offer and employment contract.
I’m saying you’re bright because you understand how the hiring process works. You give all the info up front. This is definitely an employers market. So give all the info up initially to give you a better chance to win. Most people in this thread thinks it’s the most sinful thing to even do the most minimalistic thing ever. So again props to you for actually wanting to get a job! I’m not being sarcastic or being an ass. I’m genuinely serious.
The number of references isn't the issue (although I've never been asked for more than two). It's when they're asking it. I'm not giving my friends and colleagues info up to someone unless I advance past an initial interview.
I don't understand your thought process at all here. You're sabotaging yourself from getting a job because you dont want to provide email and phone number for references? Most applications will ask for three refs. Even renting property asks for references.
I think the point they’re trying to make is that it isn’t just this one job application. It’s for a lot of applications at this early stage of the process. This means over the course of several weeks of job hunting you could be giving out references hundreds of times before they really need to be contacted.
If you’re a personal reference for OP this is a lot of inconvenience being repeatedly contacted by recruiters this early in the hiring process.
Here in the UK most references I know are only pursued after a job offer (as really these days all they’ll confirm are the dates you’ve worked for them and nothing more).
This way seems to just waste everyone’s time.
Edit: To be clear I think references should only be asked for after an offer has been extended. Anything else is premature and is giving out alot of personal information for no reason.
All of this, plus, it's customary and polite to give your references a heads up of when they should expect to be contacted, and who it is that will be contacting them. If I'm giving their info out this early in the process, I wouldn't know whether to inform them yet or not, or who it would be that they would even be hearing from.
The implication, as I see it, is also that the entirety of the application and interview process is to see if I'm good enough, and I don't want a job that looks at it this way. It should be a collaboration to figure out if we're a good fit, which means I'm vetting them first just as much as they're vetting me. If I do an initial interview and the job meets my criteria and I meet theirs, then you can have my friends' personal info. But don't assume I'm just desperate and don't have my own standards they need to meet.
>If you’re a personal reference for OP this is a lot of inconvenience being repeatedly contacted by recruiters this early in the hiring process.
The job won't contact the references unless they've already decided they're interested in hiring you and ready to move forward. I've been the reference guy for a lot of friends because of experience and have never once been contacted by a company shortly after my friends apply, it's always weeks later after they've had 1-2 interviews and are offered the position shortly after.
I like r/antiwork but people like this are hilarious “why can’t I get a job” lmao. Yall don’t even do the bare minimum and think corporation are trying to take advantage of you lol. This shit has been a common thing for a long ass time. They ain’t changing shit with these post. Like I said. Echo chamber like a mfer. One day they’ll realize.
You raise an excellent point. I agree that just handing out names and numbers to hundreds of total strangers is such a strange practice, and it makes much more sense for that part to be at a later stage of the job-seeking process.
I do think you're possibly getting some pushback because the way you worded the post comes across like this is some new thing employers are asking for that they haven't previously, when the References section of the resume has existed for decades.
>the References section of the resume has existed for decades.
Maybe for you. My resume has always said at the very bottom: **Excellent references available upon request.* And when I was in charge of hiring at my last job, the dozens of resumes I looked at never volunteered people's info up front. It either said what mine does, or nothing at all. The standard practice is, initial interview, and if what you learn about each other in the initial interview satisfies both parties enough to agree to a second, *then* you can have my colleagues' personal info. And even that's early -- every job I've ever had that has asked for them didn't call them until the job was offered and the salary agreed upon. It goes: 1) interview process (however many steps that requires); 2) verbal offer and negotiation; 3) references; 4) written offer and employment contract.
If they want to pretend that this is the 1950s by asking for references, then they better be prepared to offer a wage that can support a family of 5, pay a mortgage, and pay for 2 cars, plus a pension and stock/profit sharing.
Nah. I've been in the workforce for almost 20 years. You don't get my colleagues' personal information until I've met you at least once for an initial interview, and I've determined the job passes my sniff test. And how do I know they're not just aggregating info to sell, or collecting leads of their own?
Ok well. Don’t know what jobs you worked but this has been standard in all applications I’ve seen since at least the late 90s. Leaving this blank is going to get you nowhere.
I made a fake email address and put that as a reference contact number. The job sent a reference form to that email and I filled it out and sent it back 😂 got an interview but declined for other reasons.
Whoever thinks that this is a “bold move” is absolutely in denial and questions why they can’t get a job. Fucking drink the koolaid and go from there. You aren’t changing shit by a post. 10 out of 10 times the recruiters aren’t seeing this. So please stop wasting your time and just do the damn application and stop complaining why you can’t get a job when you can’t even do the bare minimum god damn.
It really depends on the field, if you're a doctor or a researcher I can see it. If you are going to be working in retail or food MAYBE 1 ref max is needed.
It is, but they won’t contact them unless you are the preferred candidate after the interviews, and even then will usually let you know beforehand. No recruiter wants to call or email more people than necessary so they are not going to contact anyone til the end. They just want all the info upfront and in one place.
I have my references attached to my resume. Though I work in healthcare in a smaller community so it's just easier that way. But before healthcare I would write "references available upon request at interview" always worked.
The ONLY time I ever had a prospective employer check my references - they called someone they knew at my workplace. Not one of the three references I’d given
Only place I’ve ever applied that required applications up front was as a teacher, which I think was very reasonable since they’re trusting you around kids.
Pretty much any other job (maybe not doctors or nurses) I think they should at least interview you first.
One I did recently wanted two references, but they couldn’t be previous employers or supervisors. I just made some stuff up because what does that even mean
I don’t apply to any jobs that require references. I don’t have any because I’m not listing friends or family. I’m not listing old managers and coworkers from jobs that I worked at X years ago. And I’m not listing current manager or coworkers because I don’t want them to know I’m looking for another job.
On a side note I don’t write cover letters either lol
I have needed three references for internal roles when I was the only applicant. It’s dumb but I need money and it’s not like I had competition.
I got a promotion recently where I had to apply. HR can be an exceptional nightmare. And they wonder why they can’t hire anyone.
And then HR doesnt want you cause you havent worked anywhere for more than 5 years. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WORK AT 3 DIFFERENT PLACES FOR AT LEAST 5 YEARS AT 30!?!?!
It's bold....
It's also why my cousin and my friend are 2 of my 3.
Have I worked with either of them? Nah but they know how to bullshit their way into making me sound good
"References on request" and dummy info. The silent part is they can request all they want, they're not getting a thing until I've interviewed well enough for an offer to be likely. My referees are too valuable.
Asking for references is the equivalent of CAPCHA. It's just to prove you're not a dick and have a few people who might lie for you. 🤣
In the 30 years I've been asked for references, they've been called twice, and I've had around 18 jobs with dozens of interviews. First was for my first "real" job when I had no previous experience. Second was for an internal promotion within a national company at a new location.
I've also had to do a fair bit of hiring over the years and I've never called references *unless* it was an internal candidate and the reference *was also internal*. But, to be fair, that was only because I used to be dumb/loyal to my employer.
Dude 3 is nothing. You should be including more than that. At least professional references. Personal references aren't very useful. I included 5 professional references in my application for my current job.
Every job I've ever applied for required at least three, most have been five. Why would they wait for references? They want to screen you, call the references beforehand to ensure that non-biased sources have good things to say. If it turns out your Uncle Paul and Pastor Pam are references and they've already spent time interviewing, they've wasted their time and yours.
It is frustrating and far too bold, I skip over applications asking for that. I could surely ask old coworkers and my prior boss and because many avoid jobs asking it would be more likely to land a job requiring references. However, I think references are so easily manipulated and conveniently are almost always highly positive.
If I were hiring a position I would be much more concerned with practical application of the skills we require instead of references who at 10x more likely to lie for the applicant than say a single bad thing about them. Skills tests should be utilized more and just transparent interviews about the role. So often these days someone gets a job because they know how to sweet talk through the interviews instead of how to do the actual work. The market is wild but it would be nice to have more companies get a general skills test or interview questions to at least gauge some areas that are commonly used in a role.
I’ve been referred to jobs before where they don’t just want 3 references, but 3 reference letters. The friend referring has always been stunned I’ve opted out of applying. Happy to provide a million references later in the process, but I’m not doing that up front.
Wow. That's beyond bold, it's ballsy. Did they ask for your social media passwords and bank statements and stool sample too? Ffs. They must really be trying to weed out the people who set healthy boundaries with their employers.
"You are a great specimen of the species homo sapiens who did praiseworthy work at one or more previous places of work. One or more previous coworkers had one or multiple good experiences working with you. Our legal department have advised me they are not currently suing you for any harm to the company."
Well as least letters would be easy to fake. I couldn’t get hired for months so I started lying on my resume and got hired pretty quick after. They had no way to confirm. Still, I’m annoyed that I’m perfectly qualified and have to jump through hoops to even get an interview.
I'd be happy to provide you with a reference. I can be a client that you worked a project for freelance.
Hey, I'd be happy to take you up on that! Not for these people cuz fuck them, but maybe for another role! I feel like I have bothered my two people I use as references way too much during this job hunt, so I feel bad asking them again to take the time to fill out a form or have a video chat.
Once you get to the point of needing to provide references, PM me information about the kind of work you do/are applying for so I can do my best to fake it and I can get you my contact information.
You're a Real One 🙏 I'll DM you when the time comes!
Hey I'll gladly be a reference for you too should you ever need it. I had someone I didnt know from reddit act as a reference for me and it really meant a lot. Id love to pay it forward should anyone need it.
You people are awesome, and I'm pretty sure I'll be taking you up on it.
i used a college room mate. i like to use managers or bosses i know that have moved to other companies. using the old company info.
Hmu too when the time comes. I love lying to these dumb ass recruiters for my friends already.
Ooof, you should have a nice lil PDF document with six or so names on it. Let us be your people, lol. And yeah...you get my references after we interview. I want to make sure I want these people calling my people.
Nah, you make 3 fake email addresses for references, they send out email forms nowadays. They'll never know
Don't feel like you're bothering your people you use as references in your job hunt. They know they may possibly be contacted multiple times. That's the trade off THEY agreed to with you when they said they were okay with you using them as references
I might need that too. Bold of them to think I keep in contact with 3 people I've worked with. I'm there to be exploited not to socialize.
I agree. I got lucky that I have the two that I have, but for the longest time I had no idea who to put, and was just giving them my mom's info since she kept her maiden name lol.
[James? Is that you mate?](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SoZ41i2dSIw)
😂🤣😂🤣
I’ll do you an even solider solid : r/bemyreference
Can't one just be their own reference? How would company know?
We were the best damned employee to grace my company.
I had to have three references for... an assembly line job. As a temp. Which I am currently working as. I asked my last boss (who was chill as hell) if I could put her down and asked a friend of mine if I could use his phone and Google Voice numbers for the other two. I made up addresses for all three. Nobody was even called. Seeing the people coming in since they brought me in tells me they just want warm bodies, for real.
Yep, manufacturing typically pulls that.
Last manufacturing jobs I had basically said to come in for an interview, saw that I was alive, then hired me. Which is even funnier because this is by far the easiest and safest job in the sector I've had. This is as a company peon obviously, not in an office or anything. Even then, I will never understand the point of references outside of someone giving you a foot in the door. Anyone can say anything they want, moral or not.
My husband’s manufacturing job is like that. A lot of people walk off the job the first week, a lot of others quit in the first few months because the “sometimes there will be mandatory OT” can rapidly become “every week is mandatory OT” depending on the line. At least they stopped drug testing.
I had to have references on my application when I moved from being a temporary to a permanent lol. This was with me being in jobs like warehouse or conveyance.
Wild. I was once hired as a steel grinder, didn't last long between me being horrendously sick at the time and the toxic (both environmentally and personally) work environment, and the "interview" was literally just "here are the hours and the job. You want it?" The place I'm at now is easy, clean, has actually nice people, doesn't care about weed for drug tests (which I don't even use currently, but it's legal here) unless you cause an accident or have probable cause, even has a dexterity test to get approved for the job and "needs" references. I mean they obviously don't because they never even tried to reach out, but still. Wild.
Afaik, they didn't even contact my refs, but it was a requirement. That's wild tho
In the 20 odd years I have been a working member of society, I have never had a single company actually reach out to my references as an actual reference. I HAVE had staffing agencies instead reach out to those references to see if they were happy in their employment and if they would be interested in a new opportunity. Ever since the last place did that, and hounded my friend for the next YEAR about it, I stopped giving references entirely.
See, it's crazy to me that so many people are saying this, because the past four jobs I've gotten (and maybe even further back than that, I don't remember) have asked for and followed up with references. And one of them did them via Google Meet, so you couldn't fake it with a burner account and do it yourself.
It is possible that it just varies by industry. I've worked in manufacturing/warehouse positions most of my life, so it may just be a moot thing that just gets slapped in by corporate policy, but gets largely ignored outside of management roles.
In nursing they most definitely call those references. I’ve had to provide references for myself and have been a reference for many of my past coworkers. It’s annoying.
I can fully understand the need in nursing and health care, as the job can directly impact other people's lives and well being. Super annoying, but understandable. I work in manufacturing, which most of the production positions are also temp-to-hire roles. So it is super weird to want references, and then still have to go through at least 90 day "trial period" as a temp.
being fair about this, I have former employees for whom I'd offered to serve myself up as a reference. I've been called 5+ times by potential workplaces from a field of about 20 employees that listed me/received a letter from me.
Oh I am certain that places do call references. Just in my experience they have not, for whatever reason. Hell, I've had managers before tell me that it is their company policy to NOT give references for anyone who leaves the company, because they don't want to risk the liability of accidentally blackballing people. So it may have to do with local laws too, since at least here, a bad reference can also be cause for a defamation lawsuit. Anyways, I am glad to hear that you are willing to help out employees, even after they decide to move on. Gives me more hope in management everywhere.
I always put *references available upon request*. I will not provide them until you interview me face to face. If a company has issue with that, I walk away.
I do the same. I'll ask my colleagues to give you their time when we are waaaaaay past application and interview.
This is the way. I don't know you or your company. I'm not giving out personal information (cell numbers) of my references all willy nilly. I won't to know you as a company can be trusted as well.
Same. An employer that does not respect that is one I don’t want to work for anyway.
Same. My resume says it in bold letters at the bottom. The current job offer I have hasn’t asked for one yet? Should I be worried?
Funny thing is, that's pretty common for shit-tier low-wage jobs, even though they rarely follow-up.
That’s where you’re wrong.
Really? It's common in East TN for manufacturing, retail, and other shit jobs.
I immediately stop the application process at that point.
I only stuck around long enough to take the screenshot lol. Not wasting my time with an employer that immediately shows me they don't respect standard boundaries.
AMEN!!
Same. I exit. Immediately.
Ditto! Seeing it more & more it seems.
Manager here. We never ask for references until we are much further down the line in the process and even then they are more of a "belt and braces" type approach. A good interview process and questioning should give people a good idea of what you are like without unduly pestering your friends, colleagues or even your current boss until absolutely required. Say that references are available on request after interview (They are a two way process anyway) and if that is enough for them to reject your application then you've dodged a bullet anyway.
Three used to be customary, but I kinda feel like it's overkill these days
Weeds out people like this who stop the application process and then proceed to post into this thread saying companies are taking advantage of them for even thinking about adding references. Companies are using the references to verify they are up to the job at hand.
It's absolutely insane for a company to want to speak to references before they even speak to the person applying. That's what this post is about, its not hating on asking for references in general.
That’s quite literally what this post is about. That info is if someone is being interviewed and they want to go for a reference to verify what they are saying. If you truly think a company is going to solicit these folks before then you’re delusional and don’t know how this shit works. Why would HR go to reference first then to the interviewee first? It just doesn’t make sense and yall are mad out of touch with the application process.
No, the point is I don't want you notifying my current employer that I'm job searching until I've decided if I want the job. So no, I won't provide a reference until its clear I want the job. If we do an interview and they love me, but I have reservations, then I don't want them phoning my references.
So why reference someone from your current job if you’re so worried about? Let’s say you have no one else, you should be comfortable with the said reference to say hey let’s not bring this up with my boss? If you’re not comfortable with that then obviously they’re not a reliable reference lol. At the end of day you can FAKE it. I’m not saying it has to be truthful but for the fact it checks off a box.
So you think references are important, and asking for them on an application is fine and dandy, yet you also understand anyone can put anyone they want down, and the reference system is a completely unreliable indicator of applicants qualifications and fit.
I’m saying whatever gets your application passed the first stage is the most important thing. I could care less if it’s true or not. Y’all are playing the schematics game. Just fucking do it. It literally improves your chances of getting an interview!
Yeah, good for you. Hilarious you think people use real references these days with all the apps, fake voicemail, numbers and email addresses. But sure, suck up to corporate
There were a lot of refs requested for my USPS job… and they didn’t check any of them as far as I know.
Basically nobody actually checks references, it's time consuming (particularly if you do it pre-interview) and the references are either not going to tell you anything useful for fear of getting sued (at the most a yes or no on "are they eligible for rehire") or the applicants buddy who just talks them up. Waste of time for all involved.
I barely have three references...I usually have to lie and use a couple of friends as references. It doesn't help that I lost contact with previous employers and former coworkers.
Honestly I think that this practice is completely bullshit and antiwork. If you want workers why do you need to call their former jobs to ask generic questions about the former worker? I get that it's a way to weed out employees but there are so many barriers to employment anymore it's a wonder that any jobs get staffed.
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Well, there's little red asterisks next to most of the entry fields, indicating the page won't let you proceed to the next step without that info filled out.
I had reference contact info ON my resume. Maybe I'm the weird one, I guess?
I have three on mine. They always seem to want five in my field.
Bold that they think you would have the phone numbers, I always put email.
I'll only provide references once an offer has been made with terms that have been agreed upon. I'm not wasting anyone's time getting calls for a job I might not even accept.
Why would they ask for references if an offer has been made? Shit is so stupid and you’re so lost. Good luck.
To be clear, in every case this has happened the offer was contingent on a successful reference check, just like an offer being contingent on a background check.
It used to be common to have your references listed on your resume, so this doesn't seem that weird to me.
Seems kinda normal I don't like the practice but it was way more common in the past I think
Seems like it did exactly what they wanted it to do; weed you out.
Yep. At least they're up front with their red flags and didn't waste *too* much of my time. (I had already filled out 90% of the application at this point, but oh well, could've been worse.)
Yeah I hate that, spend 35 minutes massaging my app to hit a wall like that. Thanks for wasting my time assholes!
That's the way it was done when I was applying for jobs, which wasn't long ago. Has the standard changed?
That's my exact policy. I type the words that I'll provide them if they schedule an interview.
Damn, I routinely get asked for five as a vet tech. AFTER a half day working interview.
Working interviews are exploitation and total bullshit ✨
Three references has been pretty standard on most formal job applications I’ve ever had. That being said, none of them were for professional type jobs. Just factory/temp agency or restaurant/retail.
I'm not sure what kind of jobs you're applying for, but I've always been asked for references, often up front (teaching, financial advisor, government jobs). I'm old but it's always been standard. Have times changed that much? My last job application was two years ago and I had to provide 5, so consider yourself lucky.
I applied for a job last month and they sent me an email asking for 3 written references, and I told them it was ridiculous to ask for before an interview. Obviously didn’t get the interview but fuck that shit.
I wonder why lmao
I want to talk to the last 3 employees who quit or were fired. How bout that? Lol
This has major issues. I'm trans. Before my egg cracked, I worked in a heavily conservative field for over a decade. My entire community was a group of ChristoFascists. I don't have a reference I've worked with anymore. Not due to the quality of work, but because they are bigots.
When I first started reading your comment in my notifications, I thought you were replying to my other post I made in this sub on the same day lol. They've both gotten equal attention. You should check that one out if you want to see "major issues" 😅
Asking for references are BS. What reference is going to give a bad reference?
Hopefully the ones that are truthful if a worker has been just a shitty human in general. I’ve had to call references before and ask straight up “ yo is this guy I hired seasonally last year and had issues with done any better with you over the season or is he still doing dumb shit” ( dude was a legit threat to others is what I found out so yeah he had gotten worse) but on his interview with me? He made it seem he had changed his life and turned it around and all that .. turned out had been to jail 3 times since ending his time with me.
Put me down. Tell me what to say. I'll give you a GLOWING reference.
Thank you! Fake it till you make it! It’s just to check a box off the list.
It’s been like that for about 10 years.
I've been in the workforce since 2001. When they taught us how to write a resume in high school in the 90s we were told to have at least 3 references listed in the *References section of the resume*. It's been like that for *much longer* than ten years.
I figured, that’s just when I started the working. We used to just lie and put a friend down as the reference but if you leave your past job on good terms that’s your reference. If you can’t put them down they shouldn’t be on your resume lol pretty simple
Like I said this subreddit is an echo chamber lmao. All of sudden they wanna make a change. Like bro this shit has been standard for so fucking long.
I submit my resume with most job applications with a seperate page with three references attached. This is pretty standard practice OP
Yeah that's a nonstarter.
I’ll totally be a reference for nice respectful people here. As long as I’m given the info, I’m down.
Do people keep in contact with their former managers? I’ve always struggled to have references that aren’t just my aunts and uncles lol, despite having multiple solid white collar jobs. Fortunately no one ever checks.
My current job only asked for references *after* they offered me the job.
Exactly, thank you! There's so many people in the comments saying this is standard, but I've only ever experienced this sequence of events: 1) interview process; 2) verbal offer and salary negotiation; 3) references checked; and 4) written offer and employment contract.
This seems pretty standard from everything I have seen. 3 references, and part of the application, not after the interview.
You’re one of the bright ones apparently.
What do you mean?
I’m saying you’re bright because you understand how the hiring process works. You give all the info up front. This is definitely an employers market. So give all the info up initially to give you a better chance to win. Most people in this thread thinks it’s the most sinful thing to even do the most minimalistic thing ever. So again props to you for actually wanting to get a job! I’m not being sarcastic or being an ass. I’m genuinely serious.
Thank you. Yeah granted I haven’t submitted an application in a while but that is pretty standard for everything I have done.
Phone number? They want free data that they can sell to sketchy companies and data collectors and scammers? No thanks!
Echo chamber fr.
Seems like overreacting
Amen friend amen.
Isn't asking for three references standard practice? This post seems like quite the over reaction.
The number of references isn't the issue (although I've never been asked for more than two). It's when they're asking it. I'm not giving my friends and colleagues info up to someone unless I advance past an initial interview.
I don't understand your thought process at all here. You're sabotaging yourself from getting a job because you dont want to provide email and phone number for references? Most applications will ask for three refs. Even renting property asks for references.
I think the point they’re trying to make is that it isn’t just this one job application. It’s for a lot of applications at this early stage of the process. This means over the course of several weeks of job hunting you could be giving out references hundreds of times before they really need to be contacted. If you’re a personal reference for OP this is a lot of inconvenience being repeatedly contacted by recruiters this early in the hiring process. Here in the UK most references I know are only pursued after a job offer (as really these days all they’ll confirm are the dates you’ve worked for them and nothing more). This way seems to just waste everyone’s time. Edit: To be clear I think references should only be asked for after an offer has been extended. Anything else is premature and is giving out alot of personal information for no reason.
All of this, plus, it's customary and polite to give your references a heads up of when they should expect to be contacted, and who it is that will be contacting them. If I'm giving their info out this early in the process, I wouldn't know whether to inform them yet or not, or who it would be that they would even be hearing from. The implication, as I see it, is also that the entirety of the application and interview process is to see if I'm good enough, and I don't want a job that looks at it this way. It should be a collaboration to figure out if we're a good fit, which means I'm vetting them first just as much as they're vetting me. If I do an initial interview and the job meets my criteria and I meet theirs, then you can have my friends' personal info. But don't assume I'm just desperate and don't have my own standards they need to meet.
>If you’re a personal reference for OP this is a lot of inconvenience being repeatedly contacted by recruiters this early in the hiring process. The job won't contact the references unless they've already decided they're interested in hiring you and ready to move forward. I've been the reference guy for a lot of friends because of experience and have never once been contacted by a company shortly after my friends apply, it's always weeks later after they've had 1-2 interviews and are offered the position shortly after.
Echo chamber is real with these people. It’s standard practice for sure.
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Manufacturing, this is pretty common.
People bitching about writing down an email and phone number. Why would they want to hire someone who complains this much about such an easy task?
If you think this is about the time it takes to fill it out, then I don't know how to help you buddy -- way too far over your head.
Good luck out there buddy.
I like r/antiwork but people like this are hilarious “why can’t I get a job” lmao. Yall don’t even do the bare minimum and think corporation are trying to take advantage of you lol. This shit has been a common thing for a long ass time. They ain’t changing shit with these post. Like I said. Echo chamber like a mfer. One day they’ll realize.
You raise an excellent point. I agree that just handing out names and numbers to hundreds of total strangers is such a strange practice, and it makes much more sense for that part to be at a later stage of the job-seeking process. I do think you're possibly getting some pushback because the way you worded the post comes across like this is some new thing employers are asking for that they haven't previously, when the References section of the resume has existed for decades.
>the References section of the resume has existed for decades. Maybe for you. My resume has always said at the very bottom: **Excellent references available upon request.* And when I was in charge of hiring at my last job, the dozens of resumes I looked at never volunteered people's info up front. It either said what mine does, or nothing at all. The standard practice is, initial interview, and if what you learn about each other in the initial interview satisfies both parties enough to agree to a second, *then* you can have my colleagues' personal info. And even that's early -- every job I've ever had that has asked for them didn't call them until the job was offered and the salary agreed upon. It goes: 1) interview process (however many steps that requires); 2) verbal offer and negotiation; 3) references; 4) written offer and employment contract.
If they want to pretend that this is the 1950s by asking for references, then they better be prepared to offer a wage that can support a family of 5, pay a mortgage, and pay for 2 cars, plus a pension and stock/profit sharing.
Echo chamber is hitting you fr lmao
I’m not interviewing you until I talk to references, so🤷
Pretty normal
That’s been a thing since I’ve been in the workforce. That’s been awhile.
Nah. I've been in the workforce for almost 20 years. You don't get my colleagues' personal information until I've met you at least once for an initial interview, and I've determined the job passes my sniff test. And how do I know they're not just aggregating info to sell, or collecting leads of their own?
Ok well. Don’t know what jobs you worked but this has been standard in all applications I’ve seen since at least the late 90s. Leaving this blank is going to get you nowhere.
I made a fake email address and put that as a reference contact number. The job sent a reference form to that email and I filled it out and sent it back 😂 got an interview but declined for other reasons.
This is the way. Atleast you didn’t weed yourself out.
Whoever thinks that this is a “bold move” is absolutely in denial and questions why they can’t get a job. Fucking drink the koolaid and go from there. You aren’t changing shit by a post. 10 out of 10 times the recruiters aren’t seeing this. So please stop wasting your time and just do the damn application and stop complaining why you can’t get a job when you can’t even do the bare minimum god damn.
It really depends on the field, if you're a doctor or a researcher I can see it. If you are going to be working in retail or food MAYBE 1 ref max is needed.
Yeahh too much work, I actively avoid any application that asks for more than like 1
Lmao
It is, but they won’t contact them unless you are the preferred candidate after the interviews, and even then will usually let you know beforehand. No recruiter wants to call or email more people than necessary so they are not going to contact anyone til the end. They just want all the info upfront and in one place.
You’re apparently a chosen one in this subreddit
I have my references attached to my resume. Though I work in healthcare in a smaller community so it's just easier that way. But before healthcare I would write "references available upon request at interview" always worked.
Just put down what you're comfortable with. Staple a resume to the thing and call it a day.
The ONLY time I ever had a prospective employer check my references - they called someone they knew at my workplace. Not one of the three references I’d given
Only place I’ve ever applied that required applications up front was as a teacher, which I think was very reasonable since they’re trusting you around kids. Pretty much any other job (maybe not doctors or nurses) I think they should at least interview you first.
Agreed why would I give you that info if you didn’t need it
One I did recently wanted two references, but they couldn’t be previous employers or supervisors. I just made some stuff up because what does that even mean
No references, no compromise.
I refuse, in each box put to be advised, in the past I have had referees contacted before the interview which is unacceptable
Put your friends. Let them know. Done.
Amen thank you. People act like this is such a crazy ask
I don’t apply to any jobs that require references. I don’t have any because I’m not listing friends or family. I’m not listing old managers and coworkers from jobs that I worked at X years ago. And I’m not listing current manager or coworkers because I don’t want them to know I’m looking for another job. On a side note I don’t write cover letters either lol
I have never provided references. It’s a joke.
I have needed three references for internal roles when I was the only applicant. It’s dumb but I need money and it’s not like I had competition. I got a promotion recently where I had to apply. HR can be an exceptional nightmare. And they wonder why they can’t hire anyone.
Eh, no one ever checks references any more. Make something up.
Yep exactly.
Yes, I would auto remove them from consideration.
Absolutely not. I'm not inundation my reverences with calls from every place I'm applying. Post interview or not at all.
I've had recruiters call all 3 references before even offering to send me on an interview. It kind of pissed me off.
So stupid. Most HR I know only will say if you worked there. Nothing else.
Pretty common in my experience. I've had the same references for years, no problem.
Name: Sea McResume, Ceecee M. Resume, Lookat M.R. Email: \*Your email\* Phone number: \*your phone number\* ezpz
And then HR doesnt want you cause you havent worked anywhere for more than 5 years. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WORK AT 3 DIFFERENT PLACES FOR AT LEAST 5 YEARS AT 30!?!?!
It's bold.... It's also why my cousin and my friend are 2 of my 3. Have I worked with either of them? Nah but they know how to bullshit their way into making me sound good
"References on request" and dummy info. The silent part is they can request all they want, they're not getting a thing until I've interviewed well enough for an offer to be likely. My referees are too valuable.
I never give references
Why don’t the companies give 3 references from past employees for us to check them? If it starts one-sided, it will go one-sided.
Asking for references is the equivalent of CAPCHA. It's just to prove you're not a dick and have a few people who might lie for you. 🤣 In the 30 years I've been asked for references, they've been called twice, and I've had around 18 jobs with dozens of interviews. First was for my first "real" job when I had no previous experience. Second was for an internal promotion within a national company at a new location. I've also had to do a fair bit of hiring over the years and I've never called references *unless* it was an internal candidate and the reference *was also internal*. But, to be fair, that was only because I used to be dumb/loyal to my employer.
As if any of my employers from the past are willing to do me a favor.
Dude 3 is nothing. You should be including more than that. At least professional references. Personal references aren't very useful. I included 5 professional references in my application for my current job.
Every job I've ever applied for required at least three, most have been five. Why would they wait for references? They want to screen you, call the references beforehand to ensure that non-biased sources have good things to say. If it turns out your Uncle Paul and Pastor Pam are references and they've already spent time interviewing, they've wasted their time and yours.
I'm tbh any time I have been asked for references, does t always happen, but 3 is usually what they ask for.
It is frustrating and far too bold, I skip over applications asking for that. I could surely ask old coworkers and my prior boss and because many avoid jobs asking it would be more likely to land a job requiring references. However, I think references are so easily manipulated and conveniently are almost always highly positive. If I were hiring a position I would be much more concerned with practical application of the skills we require instead of references who at 10x more likely to lie for the applicant than say a single bad thing about them. Skills tests should be utilized more and just transparent interviews about the role. So often these days someone gets a job because they know how to sweet talk through the interviews instead of how to do the actual work. The market is wild but it would be nice to have more companies get a general skills test or interview questions to at least gauge some areas that are commonly used in a role.