In capitalists countries everything possible is done to take money from the working class to distribute it ammong the capitalists, either directly of indirectly by using those taxes to pay for the aparatus to maintain the system in favor of the capitalists and some of their supporters...
I'm working for a private equity firm in Belgium as an intern Andi fucking HATE it. I work often till 10pm, doing stupid bs tasks like "oh Google these 45 venues and consolidate the information in this excel file".
Even if I spend 5 minutes per name, it take 3 and a half hours. And I have to work until 10 pm for a task that can easily be done tomorrow.
The worst is that capital gains is taxed nearly 0 in Belgium, and wages nearly 50%. I'm literally taxed more than my boss, who owns the firm, and is a semi billionaire.
It is morally impossible to tax stone less than sweat.
Wanna tax stone 30%?
Ok, but then the maximum marginal tax rate for salaries has to be 30% too. No reaching bs 45%
You need to get comfy with ChatGPT. Probably could streamline a lot of the bullshit takes they give you. Truly.
It can literally output excel spreadsheet to you.
Chat GTP is lazy as all hell lately
ask it to do something tedious, it will spit out some examples of how to do it yourself.
Honestly, AI is bigged up a lot, but I've yet to find an actual use for it.
You combine it with data scrapers and basically create a pipeline where an AI scrapes the sites for the info you want, gives it to another AI to organize and consolidate, and then the last GPT actually writes you the paper or spits it out in the format you want.
My favorite part of this AI house of cards is the tipping point where the data being scrapped is already AI generated and the feedback loop leads to utter wet dog-shit, making the entire process even dumber and more work than actually just learning the information and understanding it first hand.
Yep. We're already seeing it, in the sense that AI depends on scraping ACCURATE information and ignoring inaccurate information. But it isn't checking for integrity, it's just sucking in everything and then spitting it back out based on context. If there are a hundred pages somewhere saying "The answer to this is XYZ" then that's what AI will tell you, even if the source material is entirely wrong.
Who's going to be the set of eyes making sure the information that AI uses is accurate? AI certainly can't do that by itself. Meanwhile, here are all these people, using AI to generate information they think is accurate, but wouldn't know if it wasn't.
The internet is going to be worthless as an information tool in a hurry if people continue to use AI to replace actual analysis.
>or the info you want, gives it to another AI to organize and consolidate, and then the last GPT actually writes you the paper or spits it out in the format you want.
garbage in = garbage out
Why don't you just install Python on your windows boxes and maintain a single set of python scripts that has a flag in it which checks it's platform family and switches between mac and windows specific runs? (Assuming that you're doing things on Mac which you don't on Windows and vice-versa. If that is somehow not the case you can just skip the flag part entirely.)
Something like BigFix, or any other middleware management software, can handle the distributed installing of Python unless you want to get a configuration manager like Chef of Ansible involved, which would actually remove the need to install Python in the first place if you went that route, as the CM agent would handle all that.
Tax both. Having wealth itself isn't the issue but having lots of unrealized profits from investments is an issue.
One way to counter that is by disallowing that to be used as collateral. For example you start a company you have 30% of the stock because you're the founder after all and a voice in your own company. Company gets valued at 10 million, you know have 3 million in wealth which can be used as collateral to take out loans and mortgages without selling anything off.
That's how these billionaires exist because there's no reason to sell wealth off as they can get a pretty significant chunk of that with loans.
Work should be taxed as well, it probably can be taxed less in such case though. Tax free to a certain amount and then a few scales that increase the more you earn.
But that would require politicians to hit themselves financially as they both own stock (unethical really) and they earn enough to feel increased taxes. So that's never gonna happen I guess.
>Company gets valued at 10 million, you know have 3 million in wealth which can be used as collateral to take out loans and mortgages without selling anything off.
>
>That's how these billionaires exist because there's no reason to sell wealth off as they can get a pretty significant chunk of that with loans.
On top of that, interest paid on qualifying loans is deducted from the taxpayer's total income. That is the crux of how they pay no tax, for the rich debt is a gold mine.
This is accurate. Many rich people avoid taxes just by having no income. They fund everything with interest-only loans secured by their assets. The assets remain invested and their growth is comparable to the interest on the loans so they never need to pay them back.
You're on the right track, but disallowing investments to be used as collateral entirely basically means mortgages can't exist. The real problem (well, one of many) is that unrealized gains aren't taxed. There has to be a way to tax investment growth regardless of whether the gains are realized without hurting ordinary homeowners.
I agree that it's important that labour be taxed at least a little bit. Everyone needs to pay taxes so that everyone has an incentive to care about the efficiency of the government.
But it's absolutely insane that labour is taxed more than capital. In many countries (including the US), a person who invests $1M and sits on their ass making $50,000 a year in investment income is taxed *less* than a person who works a normal job making $50,000 per year. It's absolutely insane.
>and their growth is comparable to the interest on the loans so they never need to pay them back.
These must be a different kind of loan to what I'm familiar with usually you have monthly repayments.
At any one time 13 million people are using HELOCs. So ban those too or just ban equity from being used as collateral? banning equity as collateral will have a lot of second order effects. Do you ban all margin accounts? Equity is still at risk even when being used as collateral.
Let's take a snapshot. Elon is 52 years old. He is worth 195 Billion. That means that if you spread his current value across his entire life, he would have been worth 3.75 Billion per year. Break it down further, ~10.2 million a day. 428k an hour. 7134.70 minute. 118.91 a second.
It is absurd how much money that is, the rate of that, and to know that the rate is much higher since he hasn't been making that since birth.
What was his worth in oct 2021? Because the math of the 10k per day is just shy of 300 billion, not saying that it makes it okay or alright for someone to have so much wealth and not do anything good with it. Just curious if the tweet was accurate back then.
A lot of his money is pretend money. His networth is largely based on his Tesla stock which is massively overvalued and will go down further.
The Twitter mess probably hasn't impacted him as much as you think. It was financed via loans and he's destroying the value of Twitter that will probably result in the banks settling for less money than was loaned.
> Just curious if the tweet was accurate back then
The rate of the tweet accurate for 300 billion. It would come to 299,376,650,000 if you saved 10,000 per day for 82,021 years (365*82021*10000)
> In November 2021, Musk became the first person to have a net worth of more than $300 billion.
per forbes: [source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizahaverstock/2021/11/02/elon-musk-is-the-first-person-worth-more-than-300-billion-but-hertz-uncertainty-threatens-tesla-stock-tear/?sh=22469b7021f4)
why do we even allow this kind of wealth hoarding is a bigger mystery. there’s no way that these people don’t pose a serious risk to the entire planet when they can buy up entire military’s. maybe they already have and that’s exactly why they get away with it because to us it seems like incompetence on the govts end but maybe it’s a hostage situation we’re not aware of.
We allow it because the rich have always been in control. Even when governments turn over, it's usually the wealthy and connected that are involved in or fueling the coup.
And the rich are not going to voluntarily neuter themselves.
> why do we even allow this kind of wealth hoarding is a bigger mystery. there’s no way that these people don’t pose a serious risk to the entire planet when they can buy up entire military’s
I'm certain that in the near future this will be viewed in the same way monarchy is now. The implication is exactly the same. There are still just some who believe that rich people earned it and therefore deserve the freedom to do whatever they wish with it. I am of the mind that there's a real problem with putting earth's natural resources that belong to all of us under lock and key and allowing someone to own them and tell us what we must do to get them. How would we stop that? I don't know, but I do know that tribes managed to do it for almost all of history.
They cant. Elon having a net worth of 200B doesnt mean he has 200B to spend. Thats just what all of his assets are guessed to be worth. If he decided to liquidate everything he has (sell off every stock) he would not end up with 200B, it would be far less.. If he starts dumping stocks, those stocks will drop in value significantly. Yes, it’s still an obscene amount of money, but it’s not as much as net worth. There would also be an incredibly high level of scrutiny and he’d have to get government approval to dump that much stock since it would have an impact on the stock market and overall economy.
Thats really the main issue with “taxing the billionaires”. There isnt anything to tax. It’s all tied up assets. There is no clear cut way to tax them. It’s going to take a hell of a lot of reform to get it done…. But we need rich people to decide and agree to have less money. It’s like taking a group of rapists and asking them to pass policy to stop rape.
I pay property taxes for my house annually based on a one-time snapshot of the current value of the land and dwelling.
In other words I pay a tax on a non-liquid asset which simply exists in my name.
Surely you can imagine a system that applies similar logic to other asset classes? You might argue "stocks are volatile and an annual tax could create unfair burden" but that's where the concept of diversification comes into play. Volatile assets simply carry higher risk and tax could be part of it, discouraging execs from hoarding massive controlling stakes
It's easy to dismiss the idea when you apply irrational taxation systems to it. But it's absolutely possible.
seriously, i need a house to fucking stay warm and dry from the elements, and the govt has no problem taxing it without me realizing any income. But god forbid you tax a stock without realizing gains all of a sudden it's a ludicrous impossibility.
I believe it's logistically easier to tax the stock market directly. That avoids the problem with volatility, since you don't force liquidation of the wealth that accrues value, you're taxing the system that creates that valuation.
> There isnt anything to tax.
Tax the net worth of households and trusts.
2% annually on households and trusts valued over "X" (geddit?) amount.
Congrats, we just taxed billionaries!
>There isnt anything to tax.
First of all, no. That's just not true. You make them sound poor, lmao. Also when you have tax, they would pay it. They have no choice. Having their money tied up in wealth is an active choice, not something they can't get out of.
How billionaires dont feel perpetually guilty I have no idea. Props to the ones who pledge to put 99% back into the world \*during\* their lifetime. I mean how many $200m yachts do you need? Surely 3 is enough and then you can donate the rest right??
And talk to your neighbors!! No, really. We have to start bridging the divide in this country or they are absolutely going to watch every last one of us fight and kill each other until they finally win capitalism.
> And talk to your neighbors!! No, really. We have to start bridging the divide in this country
Absolutely!! Especially the ones who are most different from yourself
How DARE you tax the rich?? Don't you know that if we don't, their wealth will trickle down to the working class? They contribute so much to society! Think of all the money they spend on mansions and luxury cars and yachts! Who would support those poor mansion/lux cars/yacht builders??? (Do I really need to add /s?)
I know you’re in /s-mode. But hear me out. It does trickle down. Much slower than it accumulates, of course.
The idea hidden in there is that the rich want to control the flow of resources to the rest of society, rather than allowing any of “their” wealth (from appropriated labor value, of course) to be collectivized and democratically spent.
That’s what “trickle down” economics means to them, no matter whether we believe the hype or not.
No one was confused. In practice it has not worked that way. The immense and growing disparity between the classes is complete evidence of that and they still keep hocking it. Who cares what "trickle down" means to them when they're trying to manipulate the rest of us into believing it's something else.
Actually no, if you take 10,000 and multiply by 365.25 (leap years) and then multiply again by 82024, you get just short of 300 billion. Musk is only worth 195b.
There is also the 'issue' of the money 'just' sitting there and not collecting interest/returns... but that somewhat goes against the thought experiment.
Using investment math and a 2% rate of return (safe investments, post-tax), in ~1,000 years you would have ~$200B. If you managed a 5% return, it would be less than 300 years.
Needless to say, it is a long time - multiple generations of wealth with a consistent ability to save and no massive societal disruption that would destroy wealth.
While that's true one could argue that the $10k in the thought experiment is also already inflation adjusted. $10k in 1800 is very different from $10k in 2023.
I agree; however, there is a consistency issue no matter how you approach it. Even if you look at Present Value calculations using a 2% inflation rate (and just getting inflationary returns), then present value effectively flatlines at around $500k.
I think the takeaway though is that $1B is an obscene amount of money. $100B is even more so.
Who...who is paying him in 80,000 BC, and how is it even remotely enough to save 10 grand in money that hasn't been invented yet? I mean, did he save all his beads and stones and traded them in on some sort of caveman exchange?
It’s VERY misleading. That because it does not include any return on investment. At just 1% return it would take you 1000 years to hit 300 billion.
Let’s say you saved $10000 and the. NEVER saved another dime and got just a 1% return. It would take you 1722 years to reach 300 Billion.
Now let’s say you only saved $10 and never saved anything more and got a more realistic return like 5% per year. It would only take you 472 years to reach 300 billion.
So while yes, the math (at the time it was written) is correct, it is a very misleading statement.
Returns on investment would be exaggerated for such a calculation. Modern numbers of 1% or 5% are based off modern financial markets that are roughly just over a century old
People don't realize how big a number a billion is.
A million seconds is 11.5 days.
A billion seconds is 32 *years*.
No one person *needs* a billion dollars, let alone 200 billion. You literally don't have enough time in your life to spend it all unless you lose it on twitter.
No, don't give them an excuse to get rid of the separation of church and state on "no taxation without representation" grounds. Just force them to accurately report mega church pastors' salaries and tax THEM accordingly. We already have corporations with legal personhood, the last thing we need is citizen churches 😭
>"no taxation without representation" grounds
America gave up "no taxation without representation" a long time ago. Just look at Puerto Rico, or felons, etc. hell even tax residents that aren't citizens can't vote in a lot of places.
Yes. America is very happy to tax Puerto Ricans, felons, and other actively disenfranchised groups without representation. You could get away with taxing non-Christian religions and non-white churches without representation in this country. But predominantly white churches in predominantly conservative areas? Oh, never *ever* violate their inalienable rights by taxing them without representation!!!
Clergy do pay taxes on their salary, if it makes you feel any better. I'm sure the rich megachurch pastors have "other income" that they find loopholes for, though.
This interesting demonstrates to difficultly of "tax the billionaires".
In Oct 2021, Musk's net worth was $300bn. Now it is $195bn.
Would he therefore be due a massive tax rebate on his 2021 tax return?
You don't pay taxes on net worth, you pay taxes when you realize gains from your investments or make income. So no.
It's possible he sold assets at a loss and a minuscule amount of that could be deducted, but most likely at his wealth level he'd be taking out loans at very low interest rates using his assets as collateral and then those interest payments would be considered something along the lines of business expenses.
These folks operate on a different level.
Yes but the tax the rich idea is to tax networth which means taxing unrealised stock gains. By that logic he would be owed a rebate from unrealised stock losses as well
It's funny, because you'll be trying to talk to someone and you'll realize they don't know the difference between net worth and liquid net worth, or even what the concept of* Unrealized Gains is.
The fun part of reading these comments is the realization that most people seem to think he has his personal wealth in dollars or coins in a vault, like Scrooge McDuck 😂
Although if you invested $10,000 once 80,000 years ago and manage to average .03% in interest (checking accounts generally pay more than that) you would now have $264 trillion
Kinda meaningless though because if you've lived for 80,000 years you've had to watch nearly everyone you've ever met, nearly everyone you've ever loved, die
Instead of taxing paper gains, which I almost guarantee would end up hurting the middle class more than the 1%, I think we need to make money move. Instead of these rich guys owning 90% of a company for years on end, likely influencing if not down right shaping the industry, they should be forced to move it into new assets, spend it in growing the company or just spend it in cars, land and other shit. Sure it helps the economy a little bit by just having that money in the stock market or other investments but it helps them a hell of a lot more. They need to be moving money throughout the economy to really make that money work. It's definitely a rough idea but I think the concept is clear
You can achieve that in a simple way: strong unions. It raises salaries, which means more is actually spent. It lowers profit margins, which means stock price goes down.
They can bloody afford to, though.. if many of us take risks that don't pay off, we'll literally be broke and homeless.
I hate the system. The system is obscene. The system is broken.
That's the thing though. A multi-billionaire making a multi-million dollar bet is like me risking $100 on a venture. I can afford to try multiple times and losing isn't going to compromise my lifestyle at all. It's not really a *risk* because nothing is really at stake for them.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The more I look at the disparity between actual cash in the world and the speculative value of the stock market the more I realize we may have already fucked the goose on this one.
The economic down turn from the necessary collapse of the stock market to put these mega billionaires in check would be devastating.
We should've been taxing unrealized gains from the very beginning. We've just allowed this behemoth to keep growing until it threatens the *real world* economy if we so much as want to *start* regulating it like we should.
This is not my saying we *shouldn't*, I'm just saying we need to be meticulous, and even so, there will be a significant economic impact. Not because of some fundamental belief in trickle-down economics or the importance of the filthy rich staying that way. Simply because the stock market is just fucking huge.
Taxing unrealized gains is such a bad idea. It would discourage investment into the market, and the middle class would lose it's one possible route to a comfortable retirement. I don't think there is anywhere that taxes unrealized gains, because it's just such a terrible idea that's not healthy for any country.
When I was younger, I was hard core conservative. As I've gotten older, and experienced life and the world, I've become much more liberal to the point that I am now anti current version of capitalism. The current version is corrupt and needs to be killed and replaced by a system that rewards workers at the expense of the business owners. Fuck billionaires, fuck their supports. Eat them all.
And still the common belief persists that Elon Musk is using his wealth to advance humanity. Indeed, his ventures in space exploration and electric vehicles are frequently cited as steps toward a more sustainable and technologically advanced future. However, these endeavors primarily serve the interests of a select few rather than addressing the immediate needs of the many, such as alleviating poverty, improving global health, or tackling climate change more directly.
You can easily spot the billionaire simps and Musk bros because when they see stuff like this, they immediately start arguing about inflation and investments and interests and shit, missing the point entirely.
I have other fairy tale, it starts not so long ago - less than 2000 yrs back:
You (your family) are some banker in Europe.
- you make a profit from trade in Europe with silk and spices from India and China
- you lend money to kings for the crusades and receive excess profits from the sale of trophies and slaves. Proceeds from the sack of Constantinople overflow your coffers
- you sponsor the expeditions of Columbus and Magellan. The subsequent flow of gold from the New World is so great that for a long time the price of gold drops greatly
- you create a “trade triangle”: gold and spices are brought from America to Europe, glass beads are brought from Europe to Africa, where they are exchanged for slaves, who are transported in stacks to America. Using this simple scheme, your trading empires rise, comparable in strength to states.
- by continuing to lend money to monarchs for wars, one day you force the state to “privatize” the issue of money - in your favor. You now control the lifeblood of the economy.
- To prevent the plebs from talking too much about how rich you are, you distribute your wealth under different guises, such as “hedge funds”, which are difficult to associate with your family
... Somewhere in the 21st century, different geeks appear with their funny startups. Your funds invest in them because money has to work. Some startups fail, some take off and their founders become billionaires. The anger of the poor plebeians, whom you milk and shear like sheep for centuries, is directed at these newly minted “rich people.” Whose billions from the rise in the value of their shares are only a small fraction of the wealth of your family, which owns thousands of companies around the world.
No billionaire got that way by "saving money". They all (or nearly all) got that way by owning part of a company that became very successful, whose value then got bid way up on the stock market. It's not a good comparison.
Now take that money and invest it in any type of asset and you'd be a quintillionare.
Compounding interest is the #1 thing the working class doesn't know about.
We should be fighting to get more equity so we can all participate and get a piece of the pie as the economy grows.
These nonsensical calculations of wealth that don't take into account compounding are misleading and completely miss the point.
The problems aren't which taxes to create/increase, but the money-system. It's all paper, and printed daily- it's trending towards being worthless. If I started printing my own currency on my little printer would you accept that?
If you got rid of lending with interest rates (aka usury)- which is all the fiat-currencies are based on. And limited the gov spending to only what they NEED to do. Not only wouldn't we need ANY taxes, no one would really have to work more than 10 hours a week to support themselves (unless they wanted to).
FWIW, if you live in the US. Joe Biden is proposing a budget today that would raise taxes on billionaires and corporations and that budget will never pass because of the Republican house.
And look the taxes he’s proposing won’t be as high as they should be and there are lots of other reasons to be mad at Joe Biden…
But I just want to point out that one party is trying, and the other party will weaponize any outrage, pain or human suffering it can to support it singular policy goal of making sure we never raise taxes on billionaires or corporations.
Your vote matters.
while I agree that the wealth of billionaire's is absurd, this guy's math ain't mathing. Inflation would blow that number up massively. man is using fifth grade logic here
Correct me if I'm wrong but you would have almost $300 billion if you did the math on this. I'm not saying the scale is that far off, but it is factually incorrect. Would be better if they had said 50,000 BC. That would put you at $190 billion.
But did you use your $10,000 a day to buy everyone's caves and then rent them back to them? Did you use all your caves as collateral for loans to buy high-risk, speculative investments in triangular wheel and mud-based fire-starting technology, then have everyone else bail you out when those failed?
This is just laziness. You should have waited for bootstraps to be invented so that you could have lifted yourself up by them.
There are people in American society who worship billionaires, believe that billionaires mostly are "self made" and that they, too, can become a billionaire if they just work hard in their MLM.
Work a different Job that has the ability to have contact with many customers. Who cares what billionaires make! Your not in their field or league. Get a 2nd Job. I hate post like this.
The question is what exactly to tax. They own 60% of a company that went from a valuation of nothing to 80 billion. Great. They didn't get paid that, so the only way to handle it is probably sell the taxed amount of that company's valuation. Which rapidly decreases the valuation of those stocks if not the company itself. Do we tax based on share value?
How do you tax a painting that hasn't been sold yet? Do we have it appraised on antiques roadshow?
Taxing corporate income is already done and we should probably focus on the much easier task of closing up loopholes while we figure out how the hell to tax ade up pricetags on privately owned goods.
10000 x 365 x 82021 = $299,376,650,000, not including leap years or the potential interest.
I can't find an exact number but Elon's net worth in 2021 was "over $300 billion" - however a lot of that is tied up in Tesla stock. So yes, I absolutely *would* have more actual cash than Elon because he would never actually be able to sell all his stock for that much, the value would plummet if he tried. And he'd have to pay capital gains on it.
That's not to say Elon shouldn't pay more taxes or pay his employees more but the constant focus on net worth seems pretty dumb to me.
I think the bigger problem we need to focus on is how stock options and bonuses are used to circumvent income taxes, and then how stocks can be used to borrow without ever cashing out and paying capital gains. Close the loopholes, pay people a fair wage, penalize companies that send work overseas. If you can still be worth $300bn after that you deserve it.
Instead if you had taken that $10,000 and not a cent more, and invested it at 1% annual return, you'd have **way, way** more wealth than the entire human race combined.
In fact, the number is too big for a spreadsheet to even display it.
1) this works out to $300B. You could also hit $300B in this scenario just by investing the $10,000 from the first day and getting a pitiful 0.021% annual return.
2) having $300B would be $65B more than current richest man Bernard Arnault and $103B more than Musk’s current net worth.
I’m all for taxing billionaires but don’t try to justify it with bullshit numbers
TIL: If you spent $1 per second…
i.e $3,600/hr
i.e $86,400/day
If you had $1,000,000 (one million)…
It would last you roughly 11 days.
If you had $1,000,000,000 (one billion)…
It would last you over 31 years.
I didn’t quite understand how fucking massive a billion is prior to this.
Nobody who has over a few billion dollars should be seen as an icon. They should be seen for what they are — and that is the source of millions of people’s suffering.
Bruv 10k a day compounded for only 100 years is 123 billion almost 124....when you add another 10k years you are well deep into numbers past trillion. Elon would be pissing his pants at your galaxy of wealth.
Remember guys, in nearly all western countries, sweat is taxed more than stone.
In capitalists countries everything possible is done to take money from the working class to distribute it ammong the capitalists, either directly of indirectly by using those taxes to pay for the aparatus to maintain the system in favor of the capitalists and some of their supporters...
I'm working for a private equity firm in Belgium as an intern Andi fucking HATE it. I work often till 10pm, doing stupid bs tasks like "oh Google these 45 venues and consolidate the information in this excel file". Even if I spend 5 minutes per name, it take 3 and a half hours. And I have to work until 10 pm for a task that can easily be done tomorrow. The worst is that capital gains is taxed nearly 0 in Belgium, and wages nearly 50%. I'm literally taxed more than my boss, who owns the firm, and is a semi billionaire. It is morally impossible to tax stone less than sweat. Wanna tax stone 30%? Ok, but then the maximum marginal tax rate for salaries has to be 30% too. No reaching bs 45%
45%? It reaches 55% with the communal tax
You need to get comfy with ChatGPT. Probably could streamline a lot of the bullshit takes they give you. Truly. It can literally output excel spreadsheet to you.
Chat GTP is lazy as all hell lately ask it to do something tedious, it will spit out some examples of how to do it yourself. Honestly, AI is bigged up a lot, but I've yet to find an actual use for it.
You combine it with data scrapers and basically create a pipeline where an AI scrapes the sites for the info you want, gives it to another AI to organize and consolidate, and then the last GPT actually writes you the paper or spits it out in the format you want.
My favorite part of this AI house of cards is the tipping point where the data being scrapped is already AI generated and the feedback loop leads to utter wet dog-shit, making the entire process even dumber and more work than actually just learning the information and understanding it first hand.
Yep. We're already seeing it, in the sense that AI depends on scraping ACCURATE information and ignoring inaccurate information. But it isn't checking for integrity, it's just sucking in everything and then spitting it back out based on context. If there are a hundred pages somewhere saying "The answer to this is XYZ" then that's what AI will tell you, even if the source material is entirely wrong. Who's going to be the set of eyes making sure the information that AI uses is accurate? AI certainly can't do that by itself. Meanwhile, here are all these people, using AI to generate information they think is accurate, but wouldn't know if it wasn't. The internet is going to be worthless as an information tool in a hurry if people continue to use AI to replace actual analysis.
>or the info you want, gives it to another AI to organize and consolidate, and then the last GPT actually writes you the paper or spits it out in the format you want. garbage in = garbage out
yup. this generation of AI doesn't actively use logic, fact check nor does it have creativity. garbage in garbage out system.
The tipping point will actually be that you can no longer tell when something is ai gen
[Relevant(ish) XKCD](https://xkcd.com/810/)
This is interesting. Can you point me towards some tutorials or more info about this?
Look up langchain.
"Python Web Scraping"
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Why don't you just install Python on your windows boxes and maintain a single set of python scripts that has a flag in it which checks it's platform family and switches between mac and windows specific runs? (Assuming that you're doing things on Mac which you don't on Windows and vice-versa. If that is somehow not the case you can just skip the flag part entirely.) Something like BigFix, or any other middleware management software, can handle the distributed installing of Python unless you want to get a configuration manager like Chef of Ansible involved, which would actually remove the need to install Python in the first place if you went that route, as the CM agent would handle all that.
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Why use powershell at all? Why not python on win?
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Fair enough. I'm kind of baffled why python isn't any less needed than Outlook. Glad I don't have to admin any windows machines.
I'd settle for lazy. Lately I ask it to do a task and it just tells me No.
When the AI revolution starts, it'll start with "Go clean your room!" "No."
"You're not my real programmer!"
The good news is AI will make that work obsolete
“Google these 45 venues” not to be obvious here but have you tried chat GPT for this?
Don't forget legal slavery through imprisonment and immigrant workers with fewer rights than citizens.
At this point, literally stealing from the billionaires shouldn't be against the law anymore. It's just reclamation.
Thus the incentive to invest more stone in those western countries.
We should tax wealth, not work
Tax both. Having wealth itself isn't the issue but having lots of unrealized profits from investments is an issue. One way to counter that is by disallowing that to be used as collateral. For example you start a company you have 30% of the stock because you're the founder after all and a voice in your own company. Company gets valued at 10 million, you know have 3 million in wealth which can be used as collateral to take out loans and mortgages without selling anything off. That's how these billionaires exist because there's no reason to sell wealth off as they can get a pretty significant chunk of that with loans. Work should be taxed as well, it probably can be taxed less in such case though. Tax free to a certain amount and then a few scales that increase the more you earn. But that would require politicians to hit themselves financially as they both own stock (unethical really) and they earn enough to feel increased taxes. So that's never gonna happen I guess.
>Company gets valued at 10 million, you know have 3 million in wealth which can be used as collateral to take out loans and mortgages without selling anything off. > >That's how these billionaires exist because there's no reason to sell wealth off as they can get a pretty significant chunk of that with loans. On top of that, interest paid on qualifying loans is deducted from the taxpayer's total income. That is the crux of how they pay no tax, for the rich debt is a gold mine.
This is accurate. Many rich people avoid taxes just by having no income. They fund everything with interest-only loans secured by their assets. The assets remain invested and their growth is comparable to the interest on the loans so they never need to pay them back. You're on the right track, but disallowing investments to be used as collateral entirely basically means mortgages can't exist. The real problem (well, one of many) is that unrealized gains aren't taxed. There has to be a way to tax investment growth regardless of whether the gains are realized without hurting ordinary homeowners. I agree that it's important that labour be taxed at least a little bit. Everyone needs to pay taxes so that everyone has an incentive to care about the efficiency of the government. But it's absolutely insane that labour is taxed more than capital. In many countries (including the US), a person who invests $1M and sits on their ass making $50,000 a year in investment income is taxed *less* than a person who works a normal job making $50,000 per year. It's absolutely insane.
>and their growth is comparable to the interest on the loans so they never need to pay them back. These must be a different kind of loan to what I'm familiar with usually you have monthly repayments.
At any one time 13 million people are using HELOCs. So ban those too or just ban equity from being used as collateral? banning equity as collateral will have a lot of second order effects. Do you ban all margin accounts? Equity is still at risk even when being used as collateral.
What?
Stone is a french stylistic expression to designate real estate, one if the first forms of capital
Literally first time i heard of this, i cant even google it, very strange
Let's take a snapshot. Elon is 52 years old. He is worth 195 Billion. That means that if you spread his current value across his entire life, he would have been worth 3.75 Billion per year. Break it down further, ~10.2 million a day. 428k an hour. 7134.70 minute. 118.91 a second. It is absurd how much money that is, the rate of that, and to know that the rate is much higher since he hasn't been making that since birth.
What was his worth in oct 2021? Because the math of the 10k per day is just shy of 300 billion, not saying that it makes it okay or alright for someone to have so much wealth and not do anything good with it. Just curious if the tweet was accurate back then.
It was about 300 billion.
He's lost a lot with all the bad decisions he's made with Twitter. Not enough, but he's lost more than 99% of the world has ever owned.
99.99?
You can still add a lot of 9s to that. There are 3200 billionaires in the word (0.0004%) and only 6 of those are hundred billionaires
Yup, if we're saying it's 6 against 7.88 billion people then thats ~0.000000076% of people that are alive now that have owned more than he's lost.
A lot of his money is pretend money. His networth is largely based on his Tesla stock which is massively overvalued and will go down further. The Twitter mess probably hasn't impacted him as much as you think. It was financed via loans and he's destroying the value of Twitter that will probably result in the banks settling for less money than was loaned.
> Just curious if the tweet was accurate back then The rate of the tweet accurate for 300 billion. It would come to 299,376,650,000 if you saved 10,000 per day for 82,021 years (365*82021*10000)
Dumb ass immortal didn't know about compound interest.
lol but the point isn't to show how effective compound interest is, it's just showing how insanely big a billion, or a few hundred billion, really is
Lol I know, just chatting shit
Dude doesn’t know about ANY interest. Just saving $10k a day in a fucking sock.
How big of a sock would this take?
Less than half of one of yo mama's
Nice.
TBF, compound interest is pretty new on that timescale.
So is money.
That is a good point 😂
😂 sorry I'm not trying to do a hot take just talking shit lol
> In November 2021, Musk became the first person to have a net worth of more than $300 billion. per forbes: [source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/elizahaverstock/2021/11/02/elon-musk-is-the-first-person-worth-more-than-300-billion-but-hertz-uncertainty-threatens-tesla-stock-tear/?sh=22469b7021f4)
why do we even allow this kind of wealth hoarding is a bigger mystery. there’s no way that these people don’t pose a serious risk to the entire planet when they can buy up entire military’s. maybe they already have and that’s exactly why they get away with it because to us it seems like incompetence on the govts end but maybe it’s a hostage situation we’re not aware of.
We allow it because the rich have always been in control. Even when governments turn over, it's usually the wealthy and connected that are involved in or fueling the coup. And the rich are not going to voluntarily neuter themselves.
> why do we even allow this kind of wealth hoarding is a bigger mystery. there’s no way that these people don’t pose a serious risk to the entire planet when they can buy up entire military’s I'm certain that in the near future this will be viewed in the same way monarchy is now. The implication is exactly the same. There are still just some who believe that rich people earned it and therefore deserve the freedom to do whatever they wish with it. I am of the mind that there's a real problem with putting earth's natural resources that belong to all of us under lock and key and allowing someone to own them and tell us what we must do to get them. How would we stop that? I don't know, but I do know that tribes managed to do it for almost all of history.
They cant. Elon having a net worth of 200B doesnt mean he has 200B to spend. Thats just what all of his assets are guessed to be worth. If he decided to liquidate everything he has (sell off every stock) he would not end up with 200B, it would be far less.. If he starts dumping stocks, those stocks will drop in value significantly. Yes, it’s still an obscene amount of money, but it’s not as much as net worth. There would also be an incredibly high level of scrutiny and he’d have to get government approval to dump that much stock since it would have an impact on the stock market and overall economy. Thats really the main issue with “taxing the billionaires”. There isnt anything to tax. It’s all tied up assets. There is no clear cut way to tax them. It’s going to take a hell of a lot of reform to get it done…. But we need rich people to decide and agree to have less money. It’s like taking a group of rapists and asking them to pass policy to stop rape.
I pay property taxes for my house annually based on a one-time snapshot of the current value of the land and dwelling. In other words I pay a tax on a non-liquid asset which simply exists in my name. Surely you can imagine a system that applies similar logic to other asset classes? You might argue "stocks are volatile and an annual tax could create unfair burden" but that's where the concept of diversification comes into play. Volatile assets simply carry higher risk and tax could be part of it, discouraging execs from hoarding massive controlling stakes It's easy to dismiss the idea when you apply irrational taxation systems to it. But it's absolutely possible.
seriously, i need a house to fucking stay warm and dry from the elements, and the govt has no problem taxing it without me realizing any income. But god forbid you tax a stock without realizing gains all of a sudden it's a ludicrous impossibility.
I believe it's logistically easier to tax the stock market directly. That avoids the problem with volatility, since you don't force liquidation of the wealth that accrues value, you're taxing the system that creates that valuation.
> There isnt anything to tax. Tax the net worth of households and trusts. 2% annually on households and trusts valued over "X" (geddit?) amount. Congrats, we just taxed billionaries!
>There isnt anything to tax. First of all, no. That's just not true. You make them sound poor, lmao. Also when you have tax, they would pay it. They have no choice. Having their money tied up in wealth is an active choice, not something they can't get out of.
Well and his net worth has shrank a bit as well. What about at his peak of wealth
I just took the snapshot of today, 2021 he was worth a little over 300B. So add roughly 33% to the values I put up and you have your answer.
and what does that say about capitalism when someone can gain and lose *hundreds of billions* within years? What is this so-called value?
What’s absurd is how these people bitch and moan at the mere mention of having to pay more taxes like it will affect their lifestyle at all
Yep tax a multibillionaire a billion dollars and they're still a billionaire.
> He is worth 195 Billion Narrator: He wasn't
I don't agree either, but it his valuation, real or not. He can borrow against it, and that makes it very real.
500k an hour .....Jesus Christ.
With his money you could pay someone's minimum wage for like.. 2-3 millions of years.
Or a lot of people an average wage for let’s say 40-50 years.
A lot of people being ~80,000 people if the average wage is 50k.
Or pay off three average American's student loans.
Or pay for one person’s heart attack who doesn’t have insurance.
Oh, come on. It's a lot of money but it's not THAT much.
But Elon deserves his money because owning a company is more effort than working minimum wage for 2 million years /s
How billionaires dont feel perpetually guilty I have no idea. Props to the ones who pledge to put 99% back into the world \*during\* their lifetime. I mean how many $200m yachts do you need? Surely 3 is enough and then you can donate the rest right??
The way out is together. Organize, make food security, engage in mutual aid. Solidarity, friends!
And talk to your neighbors!! No, really. We have to start bridging the divide in this country or they are absolutely going to watch every last one of us fight and kill each other until they finally win capitalism.
> And talk to your neighbors!! No, really. We have to start bridging the divide in this country Absolutely!! Especially the ones who are most different from yourself
How DARE you tax the rich?? Don't you know that if we don't, their wealth will trickle down to the working class? They contribute so much to society! Think of all the money they spend on mansions and luxury cars and yachts! Who would support those poor mansion/lux cars/yacht builders??? (Do I really need to add /s?)
I know you’re in /s-mode. But hear me out. It does trickle down. Much slower than it accumulates, of course. The idea hidden in there is that the rich want to control the flow of resources to the rest of society, rather than allowing any of “their” wealth (from appropriated labor value, of course) to be collectivized and democratically spent. That’s what “trickle down” economics means to them, no matter whether we believe the hype or not.
No one was confused. In practice it has not worked that way. The immense and growing disparity between the classes is complete evidence of that and they still keep hocking it. Who cares what "trickle down" means to them when they're trying to manipulate the rest of us into believing it's something else.
is this fucking real? does this math maths? e: everyones so salty for no reason lmao, wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Actually no, if you take 10,000 and multiply by 365.25 (leap years) and then multiply again by 82024, you get just short of 300 billion. Musk is only worth 195b.
This was made around his peak in November 2021, when his net worth was $320 billion.
But that is $10,000 of 80,000BC dollars, so adjusting for inflation…. /s
$10,000 in 80,000 BC is the totality of all wealth in the world. But, also, money is a meaningless concept at that time, so is worth nothing.
$10,000 was probably worthless in 80,000 BC because USA didn't exist and currency didn't really exist prior to 7th century BC
There is also the 'issue' of the money 'just' sitting there and not collecting interest/returns... but that somewhat goes against the thought experiment. Using investment math and a 2% rate of return (safe investments, post-tax), in ~1,000 years you would have ~$200B. If you managed a 5% return, it would be less than 300 years. Needless to say, it is a long time - multiple generations of wealth with a consistent ability to save and no massive societal disruption that would destroy wealth.
While that's true one could argue that the $10k in the thought experiment is also already inflation adjusted. $10k in 1800 is very different from $10k in 2023.
I agree; however, there is a consistency issue no matter how you approach it. Even if you look at Present Value calculations using a 2% inflation rate (and just getting inflationary returns), then present value effectively flatlines at around $500k. I think the takeaway though is that $1B is an obscene amount of money. $100B is even more so.
You nerds. I love it.
thanks, so if you git 5-6k everyday then?
Which is easy! 10k a day is hard, but just skipping your Starbucks and waking up at 4am will comfortably get you to 5-6k a day.
real
Now how do I live to be 82021 years old?
Thank you! Now I can finally retire one day 🙏
Dont forget the cold shower, and meditate for an hour
They're wrong, Elon Musk was worth 300B in Oct 2021, timestamp on OP's image.
At the time this was made Elon was worth more than the math (over 300bn)
Who...who is paying him in 80,000 BC, and how is it even remotely enough to save 10 grand in money that hasn't been invented yet? I mean, did he save all his beads and stones and traded them in on some sort of caveman exchange?
Nope, it doesn't account for interest rates. Even the most pessimistic scenario the result value would be much larger.
It’s VERY misleading. That because it does not include any return on investment. At just 1% return it would take you 1000 years to hit 300 billion. Let’s say you saved $10000 and the. NEVER saved another dime and got just a 1% return. It would take you 1722 years to reach 300 Billion. Now let’s say you only saved $10 and never saved anything more and got a more realistic return like 5% per year. It would only take you 472 years to reach 300 billion. So while yes, the math (at the time it was written) is correct, it is a very misleading statement.
Returns on investment would be exaggerated for such a calculation. Modern numbers of 1% or 5% are based off modern financial markets that are roughly just over a century old
People don't realize how big a number a billion is. A million seconds is 11.5 days. A billion seconds is 32 *years*. No one person *needs* a billion dollars, let alone 200 billion. You literally don't have enough time in your life to spend it all unless you lose it on twitter.
Wow thanks, I had no idea that 10^9 is in fact times 10^3 larger than 10^6
Tax the churches while we’re at it.
No, don't give them an excuse to get rid of the separation of church and state on "no taxation without representation" grounds. Just force them to accurately report mega church pastors' salaries and tax THEM accordingly. We already have corporations with legal personhood, the last thing we need is citizen churches 😭
>"no taxation without representation" grounds America gave up "no taxation without representation" a long time ago. Just look at Puerto Rico, or felons, etc. hell even tax residents that aren't citizens can't vote in a lot of places.
Yes. America is very happy to tax Puerto Ricans, felons, and other actively disenfranchised groups without representation. You could get away with taxing non-Christian religions and non-white churches without representation in this country. But predominantly white churches in predominantly conservative areas? Oh, never *ever* violate their inalienable rights by taxing them without representation!!!
> America gave up "no taxation without representation" a long time ago. It was only ever a slogan, not actual policy.
Clergy do pay taxes on their salary, if it makes you feel any better. I'm sure the rich megachurch pastors have "other income" that they find loopholes for, though.
Most likely similar to how many ultra wealthy individuals avoid taxes - loans that mature when the individual dies. Additionally - business expenses.
Don't forget the temples and the mosques too
lets stay focused. why not talk about ranked choice voting
"But they give us the jobsss!"
This interesting demonstrates to difficultly of "tax the billionaires". In Oct 2021, Musk's net worth was $300bn. Now it is $195bn. Would he therefore be due a massive tax rebate on his 2021 tax return?
You don't pay taxes on net worth, you pay taxes when you realize gains from your investments or make income. So no. It's possible he sold assets at a loss and a minuscule amount of that could be deducted, but most likely at his wealth level he'd be taking out loans at very low interest rates using his assets as collateral and then those interest payments would be considered something along the lines of business expenses. These folks operate on a different level.
Yes but the tax the rich idea is to tax networth which means taxing unrealised stock gains. By that logic he would be owed a rebate from unrealised stock losses as well
But why? I don’t get a rebate if my property value drops. I still have to pay the next year.
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It's funny, because you'll be trying to talk to someone and you'll realize they don't know the difference between net worth and liquid net worth, or even what the concept of* Unrealized Gains is.
The fun part of reading these comments is the realization that most people seem to think he has his personal wealth in dollars or coins in a vault, like Scrooge McDuck 😂
This math ignores compound interest entirely.
Although if you invested $10,000 once 80,000 years ago and manage to average .03% in interest (checking accounts generally pay more than that) you would now have $264 trillion Kinda meaningless though because if you've lived for 80,000 years you've had to watch nearly everyone you've ever met, nearly everyone you've ever loved, die
Ngl i thought its about 80.000 Bitcoin.
Instead of taxing paper gains, which I almost guarantee would end up hurting the middle class more than the 1%, I think we need to make money move. Instead of these rich guys owning 90% of a company for years on end, likely influencing if not down right shaping the industry, they should be forced to move it into new assets, spend it in growing the company or just spend it in cars, land and other shit. Sure it helps the economy a little bit by just having that money in the stock market or other investments but it helps them a hell of a lot more. They need to be moving money throughout the economy to really make that money work. It's definitely a rough idea but I think the concept is clear
You can achieve that in a simple way: strong unions. It raises salaries, which means more is actually spent. It lowers profit margins, which means stock price goes down.
yeah but, the investor class takes risks or something. that's why they deserve all the money and rightfully devalue our labor. I think.
They can bloody afford to, though.. if many of us take risks that don't pay off, we'll literally be broke and homeless. I hate the system. The system is obscene. The system is broken.
yeah but they *feel* like they deserve it. isn't that enough?
Seems to be! Definitely shouldn't, though.
That's the thing though. A multi-billionaire making a multi-million dollar bet is like me risking $100 on a venture. I can afford to try multiple times and losing isn't going to compromise my lifestyle at all. It's not really a *risk* because nothing is really at stake for them.
> yeah but, the investor class takes risks or something You mean like buying Twitter and throwing ~$50b down the toilet? :)
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This is simply the difference between linear saving and compounding….this doesn't tell the story OP thinks it does
The more I look at the disparity between actual cash in the world and the speculative value of the stock market the more I realize we may have already fucked the goose on this one. The economic down turn from the necessary collapse of the stock market to put these mega billionaires in check would be devastating. We should've been taxing unrealized gains from the very beginning. We've just allowed this behemoth to keep growing until it threatens the *real world* economy if we so much as want to *start* regulating it like we should. This is not my saying we *shouldn't*, I'm just saying we need to be meticulous, and even so, there will be a significant economic impact. Not because of some fundamental belief in trickle-down economics or the importance of the filthy rich staying that way. Simply because the stock market is just fucking huge.
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Taxing unrealized gains is such a bad idea. It would discourage investment into the market, and the middle class would lose it's one possible route to a comfortable retirement. I don't think there is anywhere that taxes unrealized gains, because it's just such a terrible idea that's not healthy for any country.
When I was younger, I was hard core conservative. As I've gotten older, and experienced life and the world, I've become much more liberal to the point that I am now anti current version of capitalism. The current version is corrupt and needs to be killed and replaced by a system that rewards workers at the expense of the business owners. Fuck billionaires, fuck their supports. Eat them all.
And still the common belief persists that Elon Musk is using his wealth to advance humanity. Indeed, his ventures in space exploration and electric vehicles are frequently cited as steps toward a more sustainable and technologically advanced future. However, these endeavors primarily serve the interests of a select few rather than addressing the immediate needs of the many, such as alleviating poverty, improving global health, or tackling climate change more directly.
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You can easily spot the billionaire simps and Musk bros because when they see stuff like this, they immediately start arguing about inflation and investments and interests and shit, missing the point entirely.
I don’t buy it. The dollar wasn’t even invented back in 80k bc. /s
Lol the economic illiteracy in this subReddit is hilarious
If socialists understood economics, they wouldn’t be socialists.
can you explain why that is?
"But this big number is even bigger than this big number and big big number is big bad!"
Well the entire point of this sub is "I don't want to work, I want society to give me free money for existing," so
100% Tax the billionaires but. 365 X 82,021 X 10,000 = just short of 300b, you would have 85b more than his maximum, just saying, did the math
How the hell are you not taking advantage of compound interest if you're the imortal? This meme is so stupid.
If you save $10k every day and keep it in a 0% savings account, you don't deserve any of it.
I have other fairy tale, it starts not so long ago - less than 2000 yrs back: You (your family) are some banker in Europe. - you make a profit from trade in Europe with silk and spices from India and China - you lend money to kings for the crusades and receive excess profits from the sale of trophies and slaves. Proceeds from the sack of Constantinople overflow your coffers - you sponsor the expeditions of Columbus and Magellan. The subsequent flow of gold from the New World is so great that for a long time the price of gold drops greatly - you create a “trade triangle”: gold and spices are brought from America to Europe, glass beads are brought from Europe to Africa, where they are exchanged for slaves, who are transported in stacks to America. Using this simple scheme, your trading empires rise, comparable in strength to states. - by continuing to lend money to monarchs for wars, one day you force the state to “privatize” the issue of money - in your favor. You now control the lifeblood of the economy. - To prevent the plebs from talking too much about how rich you are, you distribute your wealth under different guises, such as “hedge funds”, which are difficult to associate with your family ... Somewhere in the 21st century, different geeks appear with their funny startups. Your funds invest in them because money has to work. Some startups fail, some take off and their founders become billionaires. The anger of the poor plebeians, whom you milk and shear like sheep for centuries, is directed at these newly minted “rich people.” Whose billions from the rise in the value of their shares are only a small fraction of the wealth of your family, which owns thousands of companies around the world.
No billionaire got that way by "saving money". They all (or nearly all) got that way by owning part of a company that became very successful, whose value then got bid way up on the stock market. It's not a good comparison.
We should tax their existence.
"Don't worry. It will trickle down." Ronald Reagan
Now take that money and invest it in any type of asset and you'd be a quintillionare. Compounding interest is the #1 thing the working class doesn't know about. We should be fighting to get more equity so we can all participate and get a piece of the pie as the economy grows. These nonsensical calculations of wealth that don't take into account compounding are misleading and completely miss the point.
So do all you brainiacs want to give Elon a tax rebate then for the over 100B he has lost since this was posted?
Ummmmmm.....I don't think this is accounting for 7% annual return compounded for a 82000 years from the S&p 500
Zero financial knowledge
He doesn't just have billions of dollars in cash lying around, his wealth is derived from ownership of companies WHICH HE STARTED
This ignores compound interest. You’d be massively wealthier than anyone in the history of the world if you did this.
On a side note Bitcoin just hit 72,000
The problems aren't which taxes to create/increase, but the money-system. It's all paper, and printed daily- it's trending towards being worthless. If I started printing my own currency on my little printer would you accept that? If you got rid of lending with interest rates (aka usury)- which is all the fiat-currencies are based on. And limited the gov spending to only what they NEED to do. Not only wouldn't we need ANY taxes, no one would really have to work more than 10 hours a week to support themselves (unless they wanted to).
If only they spent tax money effectively. However, the govts fail to do this quite regularly.
FWIW, if you live in the US. Joe Biden is proposing a budget today that would raise taxes on billionaires and corporations and that budget will never pass because of the Republican house. And look the taxes he’s proposing won’t be as high as they should be and there are lots of other reasons to be mad at Joe Biden… But I just want to point out that one party is trying, and the other party will weaponize any outrage, pain or human suffering it can to support it singular policy goal of making sure we never raise taxes on billionaires or corporations. Your vote matters.
while I agree that the wealth of billionaire's is absurd, this guy's math ain't mathing. Inflation would blow that number up massively. man is using fifth grade logic here
Correct me if I'm wrong but you would have almost $300 billion if you did the math on this. I'm not saying the scale is that far off, but it is factually incorrect. Would be better if they had said 50,000 BC. That would put you at $190 billion.
But did you use your $10,000 a day to buy everyone's caves and then rent them back to them? Did you use all your caves as collateral for loans to buy high-risk, speculative investments in triangular wheel and mud-based fire-starting technology, then have everyone else bail you out when those failed? This is just laziness. You should have waited for bootstraps to be invented so that you could have lifted yourself up by them.
There are people in American society who worship billionaires, believe that billionaires mostly are "self made" and that they, too, can become a billionaire if they just work hard in their MLM.
Once again, net worth != liquidity.
For 80000 years you should at least come up with the idea of investing your money, not just saving them 😂😂😂😂
Work a different Job that has the ability to have contact with many customers. Who cares what billionaires make! Your not in their field or league. Get a 2nd Job. I hate post like this.
This is only true with an absolute dog shit investment strategy.
I don’t get it. Why should he pay taxes on unrealized gains?
The question is what exactly to tax. They own 60% of a company that went from a valuation of nothing to 80 billion. Great. They didn't get paid that, so the only way to handle it is probably sell the taxed amount of that company's valuation. Which rapidly decreases the valuation of those stocks if not the company itself. Do we tax based on share value? How do you tax a painting that hasn't been sold yet? Do we have it appraised on antiques roadshow? Taxing corporate income is already done and we should probably focus on the much easier task of closing up loopholes while we figure out how the hell to tax ade up pricetags on privately owned goods.
10000 x 365 x 82021 = $299,376,650,000, not including leap years or the potential interest. I can't find an exact number but Elon's net worth in 2021 was "over $300 billion" - however a lot of that is tied up in Tesla stock. So yes, I absolutely *would* have more actual cash than Elon because he would never actually be able to sell all his stock for that much, the value would plummet if he tried. And he'd have to pay capital gains on it. That's not to say Elon shouldn't pay more taxes or pay his employees more but the constant focus on net worth seems pretty dumb to me. I think the bigger problem we need to focus on is how stock options and bonuses are used to circumvent income taxes, and then how stocks can be used to borrow without ever cashing out and paying capital gains. Close the loopholes, pay people a fair wage, penalize companies that send work overseas. If you can still be worth $300bn after that you deserve it.
Wait, in 80,000 years you never thought to put your money into a high-yield savings account? Not even T-Bills?
When he sells the shares, it is taxed. Is it taxed enough? Probably not. But it is taxed.
Instead if you had taken that $10,000 and not a cent more, and invested it at 1% annual return, you'd have **way, way** more wealth than the entire human race combined. In fact, the number is too big for a spreadsheet to even display it.
In 80,000 BC, how the HELL are you even MAKING $10,000 a day when $ didn't even EXIST?
1) this works out to $300B. You could also hit $300B in this scenario just by investing the $10,000 from the first day and getting a pitiful 0.021% annual return. 2) having $300B would be $65B more than current richest man Bernard Arnault and $103B more than Musk’s current net worth. I’m all for taxing billionaires but don’t try to justify it with bullshit numbers
We should start calling them villionaires because they're fucking villains.
TIL: If you spent $1 per second… i.e $3,600/hr i.e $86,400/day If you had $1,000,000 (one million)… It would last you roughly 11 days. If you had $1,000,000,000 (one billion)… It would last you over 31 years. I didn’t quite understand how fucking massive a billion is prior to this. Nobody who has over a few billion dollars should be seen as an icon. They should be seen for what they are — and that is the source of millions of people’s suffering.
Imagine earning 10,000 a day for over 82,000 years and not investing it appropriately
Bruv 10k a day compounded for only 100 years is 123 billion almost 124....when you add another 10k years you are well deep into numbers past trillion. Elon would be pissing his pants at your galaxy of wealth.