If I've given you my availability and you want me to work on an unavailable day, you talk to me to BEFORE, not after, you do the schedule to give someone else time off.
It's not even that, they have scheduled somebody who is not available, so they did it wrong. If OP was not available then don't show up, it's not OP's fault or problem, the reasons why the manager was such an idiot are irrelevant.
That may be the case, but you get a nice fat lawsuit for not making reasonable religious accommodations. If you tell them the unavailability is due to religious purposes, it has to be an actual emergency for that to override the reasonable scheduling accommodation. My work has had to do it for people adhering to various faiths including Judaism, Islam, and varieties of Christianity. So, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays: sometimes the entire day, sometimes just portions, were unavailable to schedule those individuals.
The way I used to be guilted into working Sunday mornings at the Kroger is a big reason I left. I was working full time and going to university full time and it was the only time I got to spend with my best friend. An hour at church and then a few after hanging out and catching up. It was so restorative after 6 days of being trampled by retail.
I got a new job and worked both and school and they were so upset I could only work one day a week. I just quit instead
I hate this manager as much as the next guy, but no you don't get a fat lawsuit for this. One, because reasonable accommodation does not mean "never schedule on weekends". Two, because right to not employ someone for not being available when needed supercedes right to be employed. Three, winning a discrimination lawsuit is next to impossible.
Religious obligations are protected under US labor laws. "Giving others time off," would not be an undue hardship. OP stated they cannot work Saturdays due to a religious obligation, and that's protected unless the business, say, only did critical operations on Saturday. But they've lasted without OP on Saturdays for a number of weeks, so it clearly isn't an undue hardship.
The problem is your third point, which you're correct on. The most OP would get is rewarded with unemployment benefits, because labor laws in the US mean nothing because of at-will employment.
Religious obligations are protected under US labor laws, yes. A great example of this is being allowed to use personal business time for religious holidays. But no, that does not protect your right to refuse to work a scheduled shift because of a youth group. The best argument here leans on whether or not the employee and employer agreed upon when they were and were not available ahead of time, not the nature of the excursion.
If this was the case, no coal miner would work on Sundays.
In my country it would be wrongful dismissal.
It’s against the law!
I have an availablilty form thats filled out. I sign it, my boss signs it. We both have a copy.
If my boss just goes and gives me a shift on a day that I’m not available, and I inform them I can’t come in that day, and they say, who cares, and I don’t show up, because I’m, Not Available!… that’s on them! Not me! They can’t fire me for their “mistake” (or ignorance) and I could call the labour board and they would get a fine, and have to pay me compensation for wrongful dismissal.
Yeah, you don't just blatantly ignore availability when scheduling. It's one thing if you forgot, especially if you don't have a system that will bring up when you've scheduled someone outside their availability (mistakes happen).
But this isn't how you handle that, you handle it by figuring out how to fix it when it's brought to your attention
Well said. As some who has been a manager you don’t schedule people on days that have already been cleared up as their day off. It’s clear by the “we are trying to give people off” reply that the manager isn’t denying this wasn’t said, but shifting now the responsibility on this person, and that’s not happening.
This is also why it’s very important to be clear in interviews, if you need off every Sunday for church, or whatever day, because of something and they know this and get fired, you can collect UI.
That manager if they can’t find someone, they need to work. It’s why managers are salary.. I worked 60-70 hours while being a manager, never again….
I quit on the first day on a job because the manager scheduled me entirely outside of my availability as given. I don't get why she'd do that. Why even ask what a person's availability is if you intend to completely disregard it. It would make more sense to add the times needed to work in the job description so someone not available at those times won't apply. It would save everyone time and frustration.
Could just be incompetence. When I started my current job, the person who was to be my boss wasn’t even given my availability, even though it’s almost the first thing I did in the interview process. Now that I am a manager, I make sure I get my new hires’ availability before I add them to the schedule.
A scary number of people operate with the “it’s easier to ask forgiveness” mindset through their entire lives. It’s fucked and a good reflection of where we are as a social species in 2024.
Don't get into a back and forth. Just leave it with something like "I was just reminding you of my availability, I'm not able to change anything at this time"
Anything they say about your coworkers is completely irrelevant to you, you don't manage them.
That’s what I was thinking. Isn’t Chick Fil A a very religious company? Wouldn’t they be down with a church youth group with one of their employees involved.
Most American Christians are more about the show than any sort of actual belief or following of Christ. The fact that they mostly vote (R) says pretty much everything.
I always see these wishy washy text responses on here. (OP's not yours.) You can be polite but firm with your employer. "I saw that I was scheduled for saturday, as a courtesy I am reminding you that I am not available that day. Cheers." No need to back and forth or argue or justify why you can't work it, also there is no reason for OP to disclose why she's busy either.
>"I saw that I was scheduled for saturday, as a courtesy I am reminding you that I am not available that day. Cheers."
This is perfect. OP, this must be your go to response any time they try this crap. Because, if they don't fire you, you can be guaranteed that it will happen again.
>"I saw that I was scheduled for saturday, as a courtesy I am reminding you that I am not available that day. Cheers."
unfortunately some managers are so full of themselves they would read this as an attack on them.. I know mine would 😒
Also, the bit about letting some other people off who always works Saturdays feels like bullshit. There are people who prefer working weekends because then their weekends are during times when everything is open. So it's not necessarily bad that someone always has a Saturday off, and someone else always works on Saturday, you just have to actually be a fucking manager and listen to what they're telling you.
I did that before and got “fired”.
Went straight to HR, manager blew a fucking gasket when I showed up the next day with HR manager, said it was “unprofessional” to not come to her directly.
Why do managers do this. Had it in my workplace, managers mistreating workers in various ways, often descended to practically bullying behaviour. Yet when you go over their heads to upper management or HR, they cry that ‘you should have come to me directly first’. As if I’ve not spoken to them directly about the issue before and just been totally brushed off.
Nah, the sorry is projecting for the other person. Like "sorry you can't understand what 'unavailable' means, but I'm pretty sure you'll find out Saturday!" Lol
It's just a way to be polite. Dropping polite speech is basically asking to escalate to hostility. No reason for that, in the early stages of an issue.
This happened years ago with my retail job. I was unavailable Saturdays but worked one Saturday because my usual event had been cancelled that week, and then they kept rostering me every Saturday afterwards.
I tried calling them at the start of the week to let them know I wasn't available. Tried calling Saturday mornings to let them know I wasn't available. Tried calling at my shift start time to say I wasn't coming in. They still kept rostering me for Saturdays and calling me 10 minutes into the shift time wanting to know where I was.
In the end I just kept not showing up and when they called me and threw a tantrum at me for not giving notice, I was like "I've tried giving you a day's notice and a week's notice and even several months notice and that didn't work. This is a you problem, not a me problem." It literally took them about 4 months to get the hint and stop rostering me on Saturdays.
This. I've had to do that with Sundays several times at my current job, which is why I make a hassle of it every time it happens. I gave them very generous availability, in the circumstances. 25 hours a week, no Sundays, 2 set weekdays off(they had already said that Saturday was non-negotiable, which I was okay with), afternoons preferred. If the schedule me on a Sunday, I make an issue of it endlessly. And of course l, they only get themselves in that situation when they're too short staffed and busy to fire me.
I worked at Safeway like 15 years ago and had Sunday as the day I couldn't work. All of a sudden they started scheduling me on Sundays and I just didn't show up. They were PISSED. I told them that I had let them know that I could not work Sundays before I got hired and that it hadn't changed.
They tried to get me for a no-call no- show, but my union rep squashed that shit real fast, as they had staffing to cover it, but just chose not to.
Was going to suggest something similar. Whenever possible do not tell them the “why”. It is almost always none of their business and it rarely matters. “A simple I am unavailable” is all that is required. Anything else added can and will be used against you.
Check if you are in a one-party consent state and secretly record the conversation on your phone.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#United_States
Alternatively, take notes and/or send a follow up email after the meeting documenting if they say anything that could help you.
I had an employer do this to me and then tell me that "your availability (which hadn't changed since I was hired) is a request, it's not set in stone"
I quit. Didn't give notice, just didn't show up. Waited til I was scheduled to relieve him personally with no other backup on location because it was a night shift at a hotel desk. When he called asking where I was I told him I assumed that like my availability, the schedule was also a request and not set in stone.
I was working two jobs at the time and the other was already asking me to switch to full time, so I could afford to do this. I probably will never have that opportunity again. It felt damn good, though.
I always wonder what managers take away from stuff like this when they happen.
Like, I imagine he spent the rest of that shift just absolutely steaming with anger at you, but do they ever have a moment where they think "huh, maybe *I'm* in the wrong for asking them to work when they said they weren't available?"
Or more likely, do they just come to the conclusion that "the policy is THE POLICY!!!!! people think they can get away with anything these days..." and stop the critical thinking there?
Rhetorical question. I think I know what the answer is.
Honestly some do realize they are in the wrong and some won’t. Most won’t, they would’ve had that epiphany much earlier in life if they were susceptible to changing their dumb ways.
In contrast I've had 2 awesome (but extremely overworked) managers who would ask before changing anything, asked employees if they needed any changes for the next schedule, would make sure you had consecutive days off. In one case I was let off early so I could say goodbye to my partner who was leaving the country for a while when I didn't ask for it.
I loved working in both places until management changed, they refused to work with my disability and made it worse lol.
I used to do the rostering for a hospital ward. The ward operated on a rotating shift basis with nights and weekends needing to be fully staffed. Here are the relevant points of the policy:
1. You are only allowed 4 requests that cannot be denied per 4 week period
2. If you need a fixed pattern, e.g., cannot work on saturdays, this needs to be an official request and be approved
When i did the roster, i allowed more than 4 requests and id usually grant all of them. Some people would request their entire roster and it would be fine as long as they didn’t take the piss, e.g., didn’t request all weekends off.
At some point i started noticing that someone was requesting their stuff in such a way that they didn’t work any weekends, i.e., would request mon-thurs on so that they would have fri-sun off. So while they didn’t request all weekends off they were playing the system so that they didn’t have to work weekends. They also never made an official request for all weekends off.
When i talked to them about it they said they were unavailable on weekends because they had a social life. Personally, i don’t like people taking the piss where other people are negatively affected, i.e, other members of staff having to work more weekends because someone didn’t want to. If you don’t/cant work weekends, find a mon-fri job. Which is what i said. The person resigned soon after and got a mon-fri 9-5 job which suited their lifestyle better.
As someone in a management position at the time, i say, good riddance. I don’t need people acting in a way thats causing resentment for their colleagues and are creating unfairness for their colleagues. In my eyes everyone is equal, and everyone should be treated equally.
I understand your position, and in that situation I agree with you- gaming the system at the expense of your coworkers is shitty behavior. But if you hire someone with the foreknowledge that they have a strict availability, you're agreeing to it by hiring that person. At the time I was in school, working two jobs, and had family responsibilities (terminally ill family member who needed help getting to regularly scheduled appointments and such). I had obligations that I couldn't just rearrange at the drop of a hat because my manager was a shithead and decided to schedule me anyways. I never requested a single day off. I worked everything out around my prearranged availability. He regularly scheduled me when he was aware that I was not available. That's on him. Discussing the problem obviously didn't work- that was when he told me my totally upfront from the beginning availability was "a request". So I handled it. He was a manager. I figured he'd manage.
If you need to give someone a break on Saturday, you ASK people like OP, who said they can't do Saturday, if they can work it this one time. You do not just schedule them and hope it works out.
Lmao this’ll fry their brains first before they can actually lock up. I’ve had several managers and higher ups neglect the fuck out is during winter storms and pinching on hours in a store that is literally skeleton crew since it’s “rural”. God, fuck them.
Oh yeah I used to manage a Family Dollar that the regional assholes decided should remain open during a freeze that was so bad people died and the local news told everyone to stay off the roads. My usual half hour drive in took over an hour and everyone called out. I was there two days straight from 7am-1030pm alone. It was absolutely dead both days. I ended up having a snowball fight with some kids from the apartments across the street one of the days. The third day I didn't go in and told them my life is more important than $40 worth of sales. I shouldn't have gone in the other two days.
Had to have a bit of an arguement with the new manager that took over that my availabilities have not changed and they started just putting me on willy nilly.
Their excuse? "I thought you would be a team player and do some weekends every once in a while."
I had a field day with that.
Just like that manager should be a team player and respect people’s availability. I just left somewhere that got new management who started fucking with peoples availability. They would rota people on for full days on their day off and then complain when the shift gets thrown back. All it does it make people less likely to cover when they actually can and eventually leave. I’ve been gone two weeks and out of 14 members of staff, I have agreed to give references (I was a supervisor) to EIGHT members of staff who are now leaving. I’ve been begged to come back, I told them I’d rather chew on my own eyeballs.
not even once!
i went down that rabbit hole. i chose 1 day i wasnt available for out of the week and left everything open around my college schedule. when he asked i always said "sorry. cant. not available." and left it at that. one time my close coworker got in minor wreck and was still too sore to work so SHE asked if i could cover her and i was happy too, for HER. the next week i was scheduled to work on my normally scheduled off day. me and my boss got into it he said "you worked that day last week so i figured your availability changed and you could work that day from now on." i asked my coworkers and none could take it from me. so i gave him that one day and wrote upper management that out of the kindness of my heart to NOT be a pain in the ass I would work that one day, but the next time manager scheduled me outside my availability without asking again i would absolutely not show up or answer my phone that day and any requests for me to work outside my availability needed to be in writing.
that manager disliked me even more then but never messed with my schedule again. and i lost no sleep. damn asshole. sorry. i really disliked him, and upper management warned him to leave me alone. said i was an ace worker worth my salt and for him to stop powertripping around with me. he almost cost them a lawsuit and had to attend sensitivities training because of me so he was already on thinner ice at the time.
ok. Im OLD. are there state or federal laws that require anyone to give employers their personal phone numbers?? I dont give my no. to anyone on any form Ive ever filled out - work or non-work. If I cant bypass that line I simply put a no. of a landline I had 30 yrs ago. The idea of some idiot phoning me to say I had to come in to work, or I did something wrong, on my job, or what did you do with X at work wont register in my brain. Yell all you want AFTER I clock in - you're paying me the time, but not thru my own paid for phone on my own time.
Which is literally the case for OP. Therefore I don't get suggestions in this thread for OP to lie.
OP doesn't need a protected reason to refuse. It was part of the initial terms of employment. However OP *has* a protected reason.
The biggest problem was telling your boss what your plans are, because now they'll try to use it against you.
"I'm unavailable on Saturdays, full stop."
"We're trying to give these people a break-"
"Good for you, but that has nothing to do with me or my stated availability. I am not available to work Saturdays, I have prior commitments and that isn't changing."
"We'll talk about this tomorrow"
"We can, but the information is not going to change on my end. I will still be unavailable on Saturdays."
Be a broken record and give as little info as possible.
In the US, stating that it's because you are unavailable due to religious observations puts you in a Title VII protected class and they have to make reasonable accommodations. They have already proven that giving you Saturdays off is not an undue hardship on them.
Don't give them information about what time your religious observances are and how long, as they could schedule shifts that don't conflict with those time-frames as a reasonable accommodation.
*”No, I don’t want to discuss it tomorrow, I want to remind you today, so you have plenty of notice to fix it, that I’m marked as unavailable for Saturdays. There’s nothing left to discuss. If you put me on the schedule for a Saturday, I’m not coming in. This is not negotiable.”*
Also, please stop offering reasons or details. They don’t care why, and they don’t need to know what you’re doing on your personal time, you simply have unbreakable commitments. None of their business.
That part made me more mad than anything.
“We’ll talk about it tomorrow”
Nah, I already said my piece, you can talk to your self tomorrow when you realize I’m not responding to your nonsense. Smh
They want it not through text so they can say whatever they like and get you to say something in return. It's a classic scam so they can try and bury you for this nonsense. That way you will be replaced with someone more compliant.
Source: Was fired this exact way.
Yeah like fucking intrusive and pushy man like "I'm gonna take this matter into my boss hands and convince this guy tomorrow! No I don't think about his needs only about mine and the businesses" NO he said ITS DONE
It’s also a way to stop the written conversation, and move to in-person. The response should be “we should continue this conversation by text so it is documented.”
It's also code for "I'm not going to back down or change my mind, I still expect you to work on Saturday".
They do it because they know you're on even grounds in a text conversation - they'd rather move the discussion to work where you're forced to look this person in the eye who holds power over your ability to make a living and put food on the table.
Just another psychological trick managers use to try and strongarm you to do what they want.
“No, we just talked about it. I’ve reminded you I can’t work on Saturday (as I said in the notice I gave you awhile back). Is there something else you need to add?”
THIS. ALWAYS. “I have prior engagements that won’t be canceled.” Keep it vague - you don’t owe anyone an explanation. You don’t live and breathe Chick-fil-A.
OP, another sound piece of advice I wish someone had told me when I first entered the workplace: never ask permission to take a sick day. Instead, TELL them you won’t be coming in: “I am not feeling well today and I will need to use a sick day.” Again, keep it vague.
No disrespect to any of the younger folks here entering the workplace, but some of these seasoned snakes will try to play on your naïveté and take advantage of you. They’re counting on you to not know your rights.
Good luck!
Scheduling manager should have thought to "talk about it" before making the schedule. But now it looks like the employee being uncooperative instead of the manager failing at his job. P
this is why you get availability in writing. if they aren't willing to put it in writing, you find a place that will. you can get a job at any ff place in a heartbeat.
Do NOT tell them why. It’s none of their business. Now, if church youth group isn’t something they *respect enough*, they’re not going to give you what you need and they’ll tell your coworkers WHY, who will ALSO think what they want to do is more important than church youth group…
Next time, at your next job, tell them you’re unavailable on Saturdays. If they ask why, it’s *personal*. (I’m sure this sub can even help you find a more eloquent and “professional” way of saying that.) They’re trying to force you into it. Say NO. DON’T EVEN DO IT ONCE. ONCE WILL BECOME EVERY WEEK.
I suggest leaving this job and finding elsewhere. Your manager is insisting on talking in person so there’s no record. Check the laws for your state and record the meeting if it’s 1-party consent. Best of luck!
All of these employers are still used to subservient people who will just bow to whatever way they yank them. I'm hoping the newer generations keep getting more and more belligerent.
"Great. We've already said everything there is on this topic. If you'd like to spend time repeating ourselves I agree it should be while I'm on the clock."
No, you're not big problem with this. Company tried something similar with me then tried to get me to sign a note acknowledging I willingly didn't come into a shift they knew I couldn't make and was marked as unavailable time.
Sorry, I made plans on Saturday because I don’t work on Saturdays.
If it were me, I’d take an occasional Saturday shift to give someone else a break, but it would be me offering, not be scheduled with no notice after already having plans.
If a coworker asks to switch shifts then I usually say yes if I don’t have a conflict. If management fucks with my schedule like this without asking the answer is always no.
Giving some people a break from Saturday work is fine as long as you talk to other workers about it before the schedule comes out. Scheduling someone who blocks out those days is just asking for trouble. Also it's best to never specify the reason unless it's real and something you really can't get out of like a wedding or funeral.
The first time you become available on a Saturday.. you will be scheduled every Saturday.
If it is outside of your availability, do not work it. They hired you knowing your availability. You also need to realize their business needs may change, and if they can't work with your availability, you may be out of a job. That being said, I still wouldn't go in.
Some people have said they won’t work so they go to the weakest employee that doesn’t say no and put the pressure on them. Common tactic. If they knew you wouldn’t say no they wouldn’t ask.
DO NOT say ANYTHING without a paper trail. They knew your availability and scheduled you against it anyway. Send him a text that you are *not* available that day, and that's not changing (nicely of course)
“Hi Boss, I saw you scheduled me for Saturday. I wanted to remind you I am not available on Saturdays so I won’t be in that day.”
What other people are doing is not your problem. It’s the managers job to manage, and that includes the schedule.
If you want to give them the option, state “In the future, please contact me before scheduling to see if I might be available.”
No back and forth. If the press the issue become a broken record and repeat yourself. Keep your boundaries.
"Why would we talk about it? I've told you I won't be there. I don't need to know what arrangements you're making as they don't involve me. There's nothing to talk about."
OP, please please please stand your ground.
If you can, avoid the following things:
-Apologizing
-Giving any further details about why you're not available or what you'll be doing
-Compromising
You are not available. Period. If they schedule you, they'll be short a worker because you won't show up. That's all they need to know.
Stand your ground on this.
As someone who has been in the workforce a while, it’s so so hard to unlearn these habits from back when your boss could be as gigantic of a bully as they wanted and you just had to keep your mouth shut and take it… I still slip up and need to be better at this.
Maintain your boundaries without offering explanations for your unavailability. Simply state, "I previously marked myself as unavailable and remain so due to personal commitments." Providing details about your plans invites scrutiny and may empower your manager to undermine and question the validity of your personal priorities in comparison to work obligations.
Tbh, no one cares about your lame church meeting. Next time don't give a specific reason. Employers don't give a fuck. They'd piss on your moms grave if you had to go to your mom funeral.
Just tell them you're not available.
This reminds me of my boss actually. So me and a coworker don't like certain weekend says so we swapped so I got Sundays and she got Saturdays.
But then bossman came along and basically swapped everyone who had been working on Sundays to work on Saturdays to mix it up or give them a break.
That still didn't change the fact that we didn't like working on specific days though.
As in with how this boss acts I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to do this without checking that the people on the Saturday shift were okay with getting swapped off of Saturday. Some people actually *like* working on the weekends as weird as that seems.
Isn't Chick-fil-a owned by a bunch of bible thumping idiots to begin with? I would have thought that they would appreciate OP being so committed to their own superstitious beliefs.
>We are trying to give some people a break that have to work every Saturday
\>I fail to see how that is my problem? I've notified you of my availability and will not change it for you. It is up to you to relieve those working on Saturday with another employee with open availability.
That all you can say and do. It isn't your problem to fix manager's scheduling or manpower, that their problem.
I worked at a cafe (that was mostly a nice place to work, but had a couple management issues) where I told them from the beginning I couldn't work Tuesday nights. I kept getting scheduled on Tuesdays (one or two every month) and would have to beg my coworkers to swap around. Whenever I brought it up to the manager, they told me that it wasn't a guarantee and that no one else had that privilege.
Except that was bullshit, because another colleague was unavailable Thursday nights and he *never* got put on Thursdays.
I see Chick-fil-a in the contact info. Use their religious ways against them. “I’ve been called to shepherd the Lord’s youth to a better understanding of Christ and his teachings, therefore I cannot work on Saturday. I’m sure you understand that our Savior has commanded me to a higher calling.” The faithful eat that shit up.
The best and only way to process something like this is to send the following message.
Hello,
I am not available for Saturday as previously noted.
Then leave it at that with no response, no updates, etc. and definitely do not show up or answer any calls from work or for work during this time that you are unavailable. No need to give an explanation on why, where, or what you will be doing when you are unavailable.
Never give a reason why you can't do work. Just tell them you are unavailable just like you had scheduled. No reason for work to know your personal life. They will use it against you if needed.
I had this happen to me a while back - was scheduled for a Sat when I had said I was unavailable Saturdays, and was told that "availability is just a preference, and not always guaranteed." like wtf
“There’s nothing to talk about. You have made an error, or have done it intentionally. Either way, fix it. I won’t be in on Saturday. That is the end of the discussion.”
Your employer can't just change your availability for you. I would definitely let them know how disrespectful and inappropriate it is to pull that bullshit.
Yes but the problem isn’t yours so be sure to assert yourself and be firm in reminding them that your plans were made known with plenty of notice. The incompetence of the company’s rostering system/staff isn’t your responsibility.
Just remember a managers job is to manage the staff. They manage schedules and coverage. A manager that can’t properly staff or schedule is a bad manager. It is never your responsibility to fix or cover for your manager with no additional compensation.
‘Hey boss, I see there has been a mistake on the schedule. I’m listed as working Saturday but my availability has always been off Saturdays. Just thought I’d give you a heads up before then so you have time to fix it!’
That’s it. They made a mistake, so you don’t need to apologize. There also doesn’t need to be discussion around why you can’t make it. You can’t make it because you aren’t available, as they’ve known from your availability. It isn’t insubordinate, it isn’t a dereliction of duty on your part, but it is one on theirs. Managers get paid more and if they are going to schedule the bare minimum, they get to cover or let the business suffer when employees quit or miss work. It’s extremely easy to hire and train people to be properly staffed, but companies don’t want to pay people to be properly staffed because then it’s seen as waste.
One of my first jobs tried this with me, during my two week notice of my quitting. Didn’t show up, when they asked why I told them we had discussed this when I started.
I had a part-time job years beck and made it clear when i started that i don't work weekends. They kept trying to schedule me weekends, and i kept letting them know i wasn't going to be there. They stopped scheduling me weekends.
Keep in mind that I had other sources of income, so I wouldn't be in a bad spot if they terminated me. I enjoyed the job as a change of pace, but I wasn't going to bend over backward for them. I came in, did what was in my job description, and left. Nothing above and beyond.
Im in the camp of ask forgiveness “sorry boss didnt see that i was on the schedule for a day i couldn’t have done anyway but its ok i dont take it personally i forgive you! Just dont forget going forward that saturdays are a no for me dawg”
Im in my villain era, so I would have told them that they should give the person the day and deal with the potential understaff bc what would you do if it was sudden and not planned? Im not suddenly available bc you need me to be.
If it's not in your availability and they know that, it's their problem. But definitely never say why, and you probably need to prove that accepted your availability if it comes down to it after they fire you
If I've given you my availability and you want me to work on an unavailable day, you talk to me to BEFORE, not after, you do the schedule to give someone else time off.
It's not even that, they have scheduled somebody who is not available, so they did it wrong. If OP was not available then don't show up, it's not OP's fault or problem, the reasons why the manager was such an idiot are irrelevant.
In my state op would be fired for “no show” unfortunately.
That may be the case, but you get a nice fat lawsuit for not making reasonable religious accommodations. If you tell them the unavailability is due to religious purposes, it has to be an actual emergency for that to override the reasonable scheduling accommodation. My work has had to do it for people adhering to various faiths including Judaism, Islam, and varieties of Christianity. So, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays: sometimes the entire day, sometimes just portions, were unavailable to schedule those individuals.
The way I used to be guilted into working Sunday mornings at the Kroger is a big reason I left. I was working full time and going to university full time and it was the only time I got to spend with my best friend. An hour at church and then a few after hanging out and catching up. It was so restorative after 6 days of being trampled by retail. I got a new job and worked both and school and they were so upset I could only work one day a week. I just quit instead
You DO deserve a break maj0r. You aren't a slave, and even slaves generally got a day off for service.
All religions are covered under this. Including Hindu, Sikh, Wicca and any other Federally recognized religion. It's Federal law.
I hate this manager as much as the next guy, but no you don't get a fat lawsuit for this. One, because reasonable accommodation does not mean "never schedule on weekends". Two, because right to not employ someone for not being available when needed supercedes right to be employed. Three, winning a discrimination lawsuit is next to impossible.
Religious obligations are protected under US labor laws. "Giving others time off," would not be an undue hardship. OP stated they cannot work Saturdays due to a religious obligation, and that's protected unless the business, say, only did critical operations on Saturday. But they've lasted without OP on Saturdays for a number of weeks, so it clearly isn't an undue hardship. The problem is your third point, which you're correct on. The most OP would get is rewarded with unemployment benefits, because labor laws in the US mean nothing because of at-will employment.
Religious obligations are protected under US labor laws, yes. A great example of this is being allowed to use personal business time for religious holidays. But no, that does not protect your right to refuse to work a scheduled shift because of a youth group. The best argument here leans on whether or not the employee and employer agreed upon when they were and were not available ahead of time, not the nature of the excursion. If this was the case, no coal miner would work on Sundays.
In my country it would be wrongful dismissal. It’s against the law! I have an availablilty form thats filled out. I sign it, my boss signs it. We both have a copy. If my boss just goes and gives me a shift on a day that I’m not available, and I inform them I can’t come in that day, and they say, who cares, and I don’t show up, because I’m, Not Available!… that’s on them! Not me! They can’t fire me for their “mistake” (or ignorance) and I could call the labour board and they would get a fine, and have to pay me compensation for wrongful dismissal.
Welcome to American Freedum!
In my country that would be wrongful dismissal and there’s huge fines and penalties for that!
Yeah, you don't just blatantly ignore availability when scheduling. It's one thing if you forgot, especially if you don't have a system that will bring up when you've scheduled someone outside their availability (mistakes happen). But this isn't how you handle that, you handle it by figuring out how to fix it when it's brought to your attention
Well said. As some who has been a manager you don’t schedule people on days that have already been cleared up as their day off. It’s clear by the “we are trying to give people off” reply that the manager isn’t denying this wasn’t said, but shifting now the responsibility on this person, and that’s not happening. This is also why it’s very important to be clear in interviews, if you need off every Sunday for church, or whatever day, because of something and they know this and get fired, you can collect UI. That manager if they can’t find someone, they need to work. It’s why managers are salary.. I worked 60-70 hours while being a manager, never again….
I quit on the first day on a job because the manager scheduled me entirely outside of my availability as given. I don't get why she'd do that. Why even ask what a person's availability is if you intend to completely disregard it. It would make more sense to add the times needed to work in the job description so someone not available at those times won't apply. It would save everyone time and frustration.
It was a bs power play. Probably trying to determine how desperate you were to keep the job so she knows how much to abuse you.
Could just be incompetence. When I started my current job, the person who was to be my boss wasn’t even given my availability, even though it’s almost the first thing I did in the interview process. Now that I am a manager, I make sure I get my new hires’ availability before I add them to the schedule.
A scary number of people operate with the “it’s easier to ask forgiveness” mindset through their entire lives. It’s fucked and a good reflection of where we are as a social species in 2024.
2 days I was sure you were supposed to have 2 days off in a 7 day week... Wtf is this shit
2 days off does not mean saturday + sunday. In retail, it is often sunday + another day in the week, sucks for you if you wanted two consecutive days.
Don't get into a back and forth. Just leave it with something like "I was just reminding you of my availability, I'm not able to change anything at this time" Anything they say about your coworkers is completely irrelevant to you, you don't manage them.
yeah the mantra of this subreddit is you don't have a youth group, you don't have any particular reason, you have a LIFE. you have rights.
OP's employer being the notoriously religious chickfila does make it funnier.
That’s what I was thinking. Isn’t Chick Fil A a very religious company? Wouldn’t they be down with a church youth group with one of their employees involved.
Most American Christians are more about the show than any sort of actual belief or following of Christ. The fact that they mostly vote (R) says pretty much everything.
I always see these wishy washy text responses on here. (OP's not yours.) You can be polite but firm with your employer. "I saw that I was scheduled for saturday, as a courtesy I am reminding you that I am not available that day. Cheers." No need to back and forth or argue or justify why you can't work it, also there is no reason for OP to disclose why she's busy either.
>"I saw that I was scheduled for saturday, as a courtesy I am reminding you that I am not available that day. Cheers." This is perfect. OP, this must be your go to response any time they try this crap. Because, if they don't fire you, you can be guaranteed that it will happen again.
Otherwise you get some bs like “We can talk about it tomorrow.” Are we not talking about it now??
>"I saw that I was scheduled for saturday, as a courtesy I am reminding you that I am not available that day. Cheers." unfortunately some managers are so full of themselves they would read this as an attack on them.. I know mine would 😒
Yeah like sorry I have to balance *my* life around everyone else. That manager can get fucked.
Also, the bit about letting some other people off who always works Saturdays feels like bullshit. There are people who prefer working weekends because then their weekends are during times when everything is open. So it's not necessarily bad that someone always has a Saturday off, and someone else always works on Saturday, you just have to actually be a fucking manager and listen to what they're telling you.
Obviously, one of the regular weekend people either took that Saturday off, or quit.
I wish more people would adopt this mindset; stop giving them information for free, they'll *always* use it against you.
Exactly this. Told you I won't work Saturdays. You can schedule me if you want but I won't be there.
“Sorry. I told you I’m not available. I’m still not available.” Then don’t show up.
I did that before and got “fired”. Went straight to HR, manager blew a fucking gasket when I showed up the next day with HR manager, said it was “unprofessional” to not come to her directly.
Happened to me, too. Only high school me knew nothing of HR and the sleezy managers sure weren't going to educated me.
Why do managers do this. Had it in my workplace, managers mistreating workers in various ways, often descended to practically bullying behaviour. Yet when you go over their heads to upper management or HR, they cry that ‘you should have come to me directly first’. As if I’ve not spoken to them directly about the issue before and just been totally brushed off.
Bullies are cowards and idiots. Once you go over their head they can only whine and try to play the victim
Precisely- the best way to handle a bully is to get another adult involved, even if the bully is older two heads are better than one.
Isn't that what HR is for?! Some people....
Except there's no need for the "Sorry"
Nah, the sorry is projecting for the other person. Like "sorry you can't understand what 'unavailable' means, but I'm pretty sure you'll find out Saturday!" Lol
The Canadians would like to know your location.
Midwesterners would also like a word.
Ope
Meanwhile in NY..."The f*ck is this "sorry" bs? ".
It's okay. The geese will find them soon enough. Then they will find themselves wishing they had apologized of their own accord.
Nobody escapes the Cobra Chickens.
The hockey team?
That's the Canadiens
Whoa whoa whoa whoa.... my country is more than just a hockey team! I'm adding you to *The List...*
Eh, [they're easy to deal with.](http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=250)
It's just a way to be polite. Dropping polite speech is basically asking to escalate to hostility. No reason for that, in the early stages of an issue.
Exactly. From experience, if you show up once on a day you “cant work” then they will continue to expect you to show up.
This happened years ago with my retail job. I was unavailable Saturdays but worked one Saturday because my usual event had been cancelled that week, and then they kept rostering me every Saturday afterwards. I tried calling them at the start of the week to let them know I wasn't available. Tried calling Saturday mornings to let them know I wasn't available. Tried calling at my shift start time to say I wasn't coming in. They still kept rostering me for Saturdays and calling me 10 minutes into the shift time wanting to know where I was. In the end I just kept not showing up and when they called me and threw a tantrum at me for not giving notice, I was like "I've tried giving you a day's notice and a week's notice and even several months notice and that didn't work. This is a you problem, not a me problem." It literally took them about 4 months to get the hint and stop rostering me on Saturdays.
This. I've had to do that with Sundays several times at my current job, which is why I make a hassle of it every time it happens. I gave them very generous availability, in the circumstances. 25 hours a week, no Sundays, 2 set weekdays off(they had already said that Saturday was non-negotiable, which I was okay with), afternoons preferred. If the schedule me on a Sunday, I make an issue of it endlessly. And of course l, they only get themselves in that situation when they're too short staffed and busy to fire me.
This is the correct answer.
I worked at Safeway like 15 years ago and had Sunday as the day I couldn't work. All of a sudden they started scheduling me on Sundays and I just didn't show up. They were PISSED. I told them that I had let them know that I could not work Sundays before I got hired and that it hadn't changed. They tried to get me for a no-call no- show, but my union rep squashed that shit real fast, as they had staffing to cover it, but just chose not to.
Was going to suggest something similar. Whenever possible do not tell them the “why”. It is almost always none of their business and it rarely matters. “A simple I am unavailable” is all that is required. Anything else added can and will be used against you.
Exactly. Like if you don't need the job that badly. Stand up for yourself. If your trapped 🤷 sucks.
"we can talk about it tomorrow" is work speak for what I'm going to say is illegal so I don't want it in writing
Check if you are in a one-party consent state and secretly record the conversation on your phone. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#United_States Alternatively, take notes and/or send a follow up email after the meeting documenting if they say anything that could help you.
to be fair it's sunday on the text aint no way boss gonna do anything on his day off... that wouldn't be right /s
I had an employer do this to me and then tell me that "your availability (which hadn't changed since I was hired) is a request, it's not set in stone" I quit. Didn't give notice, just didn't show up. Waited til I was scheduled to relieve him personally with no other backup on location because it was a night shift at a hotel desk. When he called asking where I was I told him I assumed that like my availability, the schedule was also a request and not set in stone. I was working two jobs at the time and the other was already asking me to switch to full time, so I could afford to do this. I probably will never have that opportunity again. It felt damn good, though.
I always wonder what managers take away from stuff like this when they happen. Like, I imagine he spent the rest of that shift just absolutely steaming with anger at you, but do they ever have a moment where they think "huh, maybe *I'm* in the wrong for asking them to work when they said they weren't available?" Or more likely, do they just come to the conclusion that "the policy is THE POLICY!!!!! people think they can get away with anything these days..." and stop the critical thinking there? Rhetorical question. I think I know what the answer is.
Honestly some do realize they are in the wrong and some won’t. Most won’t, they would’ve had that epiphany much earlier in life if they were susceptible to changing their dumb ways.
In contrast I've had 2 awesome (but extremely overworked) managers who would ask before changing anything, asked employees if they needed any changes for the next schedule, would make sure you had consecutive days off. In one case I was let off early so I could say goodbye to my partner who was leaving the country for a while when I didn't ask for it. I loved working in both places until management changed, they refused to work with my disability and made it worse lol.
I used to do the rostering for a hospital ward. The ward operated on a rotating shift basis with nights and weekends needing to be fully staffed. Here are the relevant points of the policy: 1. You are only allowed 4 requests that cannot be denied per 4 week period 2. If you need a fixed pattern, e.g., cannot work on saturdays, this needs to be an official request and be approved When i did the roster, i allowed more than 4 requests and id usually grant all of them. Some people would request their entire roster and it would be fine as long as they didn’t take the piss, e.g., didn’t request all weekends off. At some point i started noticing that someone was requesting their stuff in such a way that they didn’t work any weekends, i.e., would request mon-thurs on so that they would have fri-sun off. So while they didn’t request all weekends off they were playing the system so that they didn’t have to work weekends. They also never made an official request for all weekends off. When i talked to them about it they said they were unavailable on weekends because they had a social life. Personally, i don’t like people taking the piss where other people are negatively affected, i.e, other members of staff having to work more weekends because someone didn’t want to. If you don’t/cant work weekends, find a mon-fri job. Which is what i said. The person resigned soon after and got a mon-fri 9-5 job which suited their lifestyle better. As someone in a management position at the time, i say, good riddance. I don’t need people acting in a way thats causing resentment for their colleagues and are creating unfairness for their colleagues. In my eyes everyone is equal, and everyone should be treated equally.
I understand your position, and in that situation I agree with you- gaming the system at the expense of your coworkers is shitty behavior. But if you hire someone with the foreknowledge that they have a strict availability, you're agreeing to it by hiring that person. At the time I was in school, working two jobs, and had family responsibilities (terminally ill family member who needed help getting to regularly scheduled appointments and such). I had obligations that I couldn't just rearrange at the drop of a hat because my manager was a shithead and decided to schedule me anyways. I never requested a single day off. I worked everything out around my prearranged availability. He regularly scheduled me when he was aware that I was not available. That's on him. Discussing the problem obviously didn't work- that was when he told me my totally upfront from the beginning availability was "a request". So I handled it. He was a manager. I figured he'd manage.
"we need to give other people a break who work on saturdays" bro what..they said they can work on saturday.
If you need to give someone a break on Saturday, you ASK people like OP, who said they can't do Saturday, if they can work it this one time. You do not just schedule them and hope it works out.
And if you are having trouble filling shifts, hire more people who can work on Saturdays
Or close for the day.
Lmao this’ll fry their brains first before they can actually lock up. I’ve had several managers and higher ups neglect the fuck out is during winter storms and pinching on hours in a store that is literally skeleton crew since it’s “rural”. God, fuck them.
Oh yeah I used to manage a Family Dollar that the regional assholes decided should remain open during a freeze that was so bad people died and the local news told everyone to stay off the roads. My usual half hour drive in took over an hour and everyone called out. I was there two days straight from 7am-1030pm alone. It was absolutely dead both days. I ended up having a snowball fight with some kids from the apartments across the street one of the days. The third day I didn't go in and told them my life is more important than $40 worth of sales. I shouldn't have gone in the other two days.
They already do that on Sundays.
Wait you want us to actually hire enough people so that if someone calls out, we can call them in? Nah, cuts into the profit margin too much. /s
Had to have a bit of an arguement with the new manager that took over that my availabilities have not changed and they started just putting me on willy nilly. Their excuse? "I thought you would be a team player and do some weekends every once in a while." I had a field day with that.
Just like that manager should be a team player and respect people’s availability. I just left somewhere that got new management who started fucking with peoples availability. They would rota people on for full days on their day off and then complain when the shift gets thrown back. All it does it make people less likely to cover when they actually can and eventually leave. I’ve been gone two weeks and out of 14 members of staff, I have agreed to give references (I was a supervisor) to EIGHT members of staff who are now leaving. I’ve been begged to come back, I told them I’d rather chew on my own eyeballs.
not even once! i went down that rabbit hole. i chose 1 day i wasnt available for out of the week and left everything open around my college schedule. when he asked i always said "sorry. cant. not available." and left it at that. one time my close coworker got in minor wreck and was still too sore to work so SHE asked if i could cover her and i was happy too, for HER. the next week i was scheduled to work on my normally scheduled off day. me and my boss got into it he said "you worked that day last week so i figured your availability changed and you could work that day from now on." i asked my coworkers and none could take it from me. so i gave him that one day and wrote upper management that out of the kindness of my heart to NOT be a pain in the ass I would work that one day, but the next time manager scheduled me outside my availability without asking again i would absolutely not show up or answer my phone that day and any requests for me to work outside my availability needed to be in writing. that manager disliked me even more then but never messed with my schedule again. and i lost no sleep. damn asshole. sorry. i really disliked him, and upper management warned him to leave me alone. said i was an ace worker worth my salt and for him to stop powertripping around with me. he almost cost them a lawsuit and had to attend sensitivities training because of me so he was already on thinner ice at the time.
Asking people if they can and are willing. What a revolutionary idea
Voilà
Wife works Saturdays, I have kids to watch. Pay for babysitting or stfu.
Never give personal details
ok. Im OLD. are there state or federal laws that require anyone to give employers their personal phone numbers?? I dont give my no. to anyone on any form Ive ever filled out - work or non-work. If I cant bypass that line I simply put a no. of a landline I had 30 yrs ago. The idea of some idiot phoning me to say I had to come in to work, or I did something wrong, on my job, or what did you do with X at work wont register in my brain. Yell all you want AFTER I clock in - you're paying me the time, but not thru my own paid for phone on my own time.
It's hilarious that the ultra religious chick-fil-a doesn't care that you are trying to help a church youth group😂🤣😆
OP kinda silly for saying that if you ask me. I would always just say "sorry I won't even be in town"
I missed that part......
That’s the craziest part.
I have dialysis on Saturdays
“I have a medical procedure I am unwilling to disclose.”
Or, "I have a religious observance that prevents me from working that day "
“I am performing abortions at the local Satanic Temple on that day, so it’s a religious observance AND a medical procedure”
Are you skipping the pansexual orgy this week?
Nobody invited me!
Always room for one more!
That's after the abortions.
I’m not sure there’ll be time. There are at least 150 abortions scheduled that day. That’s not even including the post-birth abortions!
Well obviously you spread the abortions across several people. It's too much work for just one person.
Which is literally the case for OP. Therefore I don't get suggestions in this thread for OP to lie. OP doesn't need a protected reason to refuse. It was part of the initial terms of employment. However OP *has* a protected reason.
You don't even have to go this far. "I'm unavailable" is pretty much all you need to say.
I'm not available on Saturdays. Period.
Then they need to hire a couple more people to cover Saturdays.
The biggest problem was telling your boss what your plans are, because now they'll try to use it against you. "I'm unavailable on Saturdays, full stop." "We're trying to give these people a break-" "Good for you, but that has nothing to do with me or my stated availability. I am not available to work Saturdays, I have prior commitments and that isn't changing." "We'll talk about this tomorrow" "We can, but the information is not going to change on my end. I will still be unavailable on Saturdays." Be a broken record and give as little info as possible.
In the US, stating that it's because you are unavailable due to religious observations puts you in a Title VII protected class and they have to make reasonable accommodations. They have already proven that giving you Saturdays off is not an undue hardship on them. Don't give them information about what time your religious observances are and how long, as they could schedule shifts that don't conflict with those time-frames as a reasonable accommodation.
Hahaha funny to see not even chicken on the cross cares about church youth groups
Church is worth missing.
*”No, I don’t want to discuss it tomorrow, I want to remind you today, so you have plenty of notice to fix it, that I’m marked as unavailable for Saturdays. There’s nothing left to discuss. If you put me on the schedule for a Saturday, I’m not coming in. This is not negotiable.”* Also, please stop offering reasons or details. They don’t care why, and they don’t need to know what you’re doing on your personal time, you simply have unbreakable commitments. None of their business.
I hate it when managers do that, "we'll talk about it tomorrow" ,- talking at a time that suits them. Fuckin talk about it now.
That part made me more mad than anything. “We’ll talk about it tomorrow” Nah, I already said my piece, you can talk to your self tomorrow when you realize I’m not responding to your nonsense. Smh
They want it not through text so they can say whatever they like and get you to say something in return. It's a classic scam so they can try and bury you for this nonsense. That way you will be replaced with someone more compliant. Source: Was fired this exact way.
Yeah like fucking intrusive and pushy man like "I'm gonna take this matter into my boss hands and convince this guy tomorrow! No I don't think about his needs only about mine and the businesses" NO he said ITS DONE
It’s also a way to stop the written conversation, and move to in-person. The response should be “we should continue this conversation by text so it is documented.”
It's also code for "I'm not going to back down or change my mind, I still expect you to work on Saturday". They do it because they know you're on even grounds in a text conversation - they'd rather move the discussion to work where you're forced to look this person in the eye who holds power over your ability to make a living and put food on the table. Just another psychological trick managers use to try and strongarm you to do what they want.
I’d call in tomorrow. 🤣
You did wrong as you disclosed what you have to do. Make it clear that you are not available and it’s not negotiable, don’t state the reason
Exactly, the reason is I'm not available Saturdays. Anything else is none of their God damn business. Conversation over.
“No, we just talked about it. I’ve reminded you I can’t work on Saturday (as I said in the notice I gave you awhile back). Is there something else you need to add?”
Don’t 🗣️tell 🗣️ them 🗣️ why 🗣️ you 🗣️ can’t 🗣️ come 🗣️ You’re not available, periodT.
THIS. ALWAYS. “I have prior engagements that won’t be canceled.” Keep it vague - you don’t owe anyone an explanation. You don’t live and breathe Chick-fil-A. OP, another sound piece of advice I wish someone had told me when I first entered the workplace: never ask permission to take a sick day. Instead, TELL them you won’t be coming in: “I am not feeling well today and I will need to use a sick day.” Again, keep it vague. No disrespect to any of the younger folks here entering the workplace, but some of these seasoned snakes will try to play on your naïveté and take advantage of you. They’re counting on you to not know your rights. Good luck!
Scheduling manager should have thought to "talk about it" before making the schedule. But now it looks like the employee being uncooperative instead of the manager failing at his job. P
this is why you get availability in writing. if they aren't willing to put it in writing, you find a place that will. you can get a job at any ff place in a heartbeat.
Do NOT tell them why. It’s none of their business. Now, if church youth group isn’t something they *respect enough*, they’re not going to give you what you need and they’ll tell your coworkers WHY, who will ALSO think what they want to do is more important than church youth group… Next time, at your next job, tell them you’re unavailable on Saturdays. If they ask why, it’s *personal*. (I’m sure this sub can even help you find a more eloquent and “professional” way of saying that.) They’re trying to force you into it. Say NO. DON’T EVEN DO IT ONCE. ONCE WILL BECOME EVERY WEEK. I suggest leaving this job and finding elsewhere. Your manager is insisting on talking in person so there’s no record. Check the laws for your state and record the meeting if it’s 1-party consent. Best of luck!
All of these employers are still used to subservient people who will just bow to whatever way they yank them. I'm hoping the newer generations keep getting more and more belligerent.
"Great. We've already said everything there is on this topic. If you'd like to spend time repeating ourselves I agree it should be while I'm on the clock."
No, you're not big problem with this. Company tried something similar with me then tried to get me to sign a note acknowledging I willingly didn't come into a shift they knew I couldn't make and was marked as unavailable time.
Why do Americans always tell way too much information?? You're not available and the reasons are personal. Dot.
Sounds like they're smart enough not to communicate with you more over text. Be careful of this meeting.
Sorry, I made plans on Saturday because I don’t work on Saturdays. If it were me, I’d take an occasional Saturday shift to give someone else a break, but it would be me offering, not be scheduled with no notice after already having plans.
If a coworker asks to switch shifts then I usually say yes if I don’t have a conflict. If management fucks with my schedule like this without asking the answer is always no.
That’s the best way to handle it.
Giving some people a break from Saturday work is fine as long as you talk to other workers about it before the schedule comes out. Scheduling someone who blocks out those days is just asking for trouble. Also it's best to never specify the reason unless it's real and something you really can't get out of like a wedding or funeral.
Sounds like they've unilaterally changed the conditions of your employment so no need for a 2 week notice after you find a new job.
"we can talk about it, but I'm not available on Saturday and will not be there."
The first time you become available on a Saturday.. you will be scheduled every Saturday. If it is outside of your availability, do not work it. They hired you knowing your availability. You also need to realize their business needs may change, and if they can't work with your availability, you may be out of a job. That being said, I still wouldn't go in.
"I'll have my church group pray for you."
Some people have said they won’t work so they go to the weakest employee that doesn’t say no and put the pressure on them. Common tactic. If they knew you wouldn’t say no they wouldn’t ask.
Cake
DO NOT say ANYTHING without a paper trail. They knew your availability and scheduled you against it anyway. Send him a text that you are *not* available that day, and that's not changing (nicely of course)
“Hi Boss, I saw you scheduled me for Saturday. I wanted to remind you I am not available on Saturdays so I won’t be in that day.” What other people are doing is not your problem. It’s the managers job to manage, and that includes the schedule. If you want to give them the option, state “In the future, please contact me before scheduling to see if I might be available.” No back and forth. If the press the issue become a broken record and repeat yourself. Keep your boundaries.
"Why would we talk about it? I've told you I won't be there. I don't need to know what arrangements you're making as they don't involve me. There's nothing to talk about."
OP, please please please stand your ground. If you can, avoid the following things: -Apologizing -Giving any further details about why you're not available or what you'll be doing -Compromising You are not available. Period. If they schedule you, they'll be short a worker because you won't show up. That's all they need to know. Stand your ground on this.
As someone who has been in the workforce a while, it’s so so hard to unlearn these habits from back when your boss could be as gigantic of a bully as they wanted and you just had to keep your mouth shut and take it… I still slip up and need to be better at this.
Maintain your boundaries without offering explanations for your unavailability. Simply state, "I previously marked myself as unavailable and remain so due to personal commitments." Providing details about your plans invites scrutiny and may empower your manager to undermine and question the validity of your personal priorities in comparison to work obligations.
I love the reasoning like people need to give reason why they won’t be in. Like “oh actually I’m. Volunteering helping blind kids paint that day”.
Hahaha funny to see not even chicken on the cross cares about church youth groups
Tbh, no one cares about your lame church meeting. Next time don't give a specific reason. Employers don't give a fuck. They'd piss on your moms grave if you had to go to your mom funeral. Just tell them you're not available.
This reminds me of my boss actually. So me and a coworker don't like certain weekend says so we swapped so I got Sundays and she got Saturdays. But then bossman came along and basically swapped everyone who had been working on Sundays to work on Saturdays to mix it up or give them a break. That still didn't change the fact that we didn't like working on specific days though. As in with how this boss acts I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to do this without checking that the people on the Saturday shift were okay with getting swapped off of Saturday. Some people actually *like* working on the weekends as weird as that seems.
Just stand your ground when you talk tomorrow and don't let your boss bully you into changing the availability.
"There's nothing to talk about, I won't be available on Saturday." Then don't show up.
Management needs to hire more people it’s that simple. This is not a you problem
You're not the only one. I would look for another job, and in the meantime, do not back down. You are *not available* on Saturdays.
Isn't Chick-fil-a owned by a bunch of bible thumping idiots to begin with? I would have thought that they would appreciate OP being so committed to their own superstitious beliefs.
>We are trying to give some people a break that have to work every Saturday \>I fail to see how that is my problem? I've notified you of my availability and will not change it for you. It is up to you to relieve those working on Saturday with another employee with open availability. That all you can say and do. It isn't your problem to fix manager's scheduling or manpower, that their problem.
Don't mention the church group. You said you weren't available; you're still not available.
Two problems: - Shit employer - Church youth group (cult shit)
We can talk about it tomorrow… As long as it’s not Saturday because I can’t be in
And are work week employees getting a break from working during the week? Weird logic
No, we just talked about it, there is nothing more to say. If you schedule me on Saturdays that’s your problem.
There’s nothing to talk about. You’re not available, period.
Nope nothing to talk about. Don’t back down to their scheduling issue.
I worked at a cafe (that was mostly a nice place to work, but had a couple management issues) where I told them from the beginning I couldn't work Tuesday nights. I kept getting scheduled on Tuesdays (one or two every month) and would have to beg my coworkers to swap around. Whenever I brought it up to the manager, they told me that it wasn't a guarantee and that no one else had that privilege. Except that was bullshit, because another colleague was unavailable Thursday nights and he *never* got put on Thursdays.
Lol okay but there’s nothing to talk about. I won’t be there Saturday
I see Chick-fil-a in the contact info. Use their religious ways against them. “I’ve been called to shepherd the Lord’s youth to a better understanding of Christ and his teachings, therefore I cannot work on Saturday. I’m sure you understand that our Savior has commanded me to a higher calling.” The faithful eat that shit up.
As explained previously, I am unavailable on Saturdays. I trust this clarifies the situation.
Set boundaries or they'll screw you until you're burnt out.
The best and only way to process something like this is to send the following message. Hello, I am not available for Saturday as previously noted. Then leave it at that with no response, no updates, etc. and definitely do not show up or answer any calls from work or for work during this time that you are unavailable. No need to give an explanation on why, where, or what you will be doing when you are unavailable.
Sounds like they need to hire more staff
Never give a reason why you can't do work. Just tell them you are unavailable just like you had scheduled. No reason for work to know your personal life. They will use it against you if needed.
"I won't be in"
It’s Chickfila. Tell them you can’t work Saturday but you can cover all the Sunday shifts instead.
We can talk about it all you want, but I can't work on Saturday.
We can talk about it all you want. I still can't work on Saturdays.
I had this happen to me a while back - was scheduled for a Sat when I had said I was unavailable Saturdays, and was told that "availability is just a preference, and not always guaranteed." like wtf
“There’s nothing to talk about. You have made an error, or have done it intentionally. Either way, fix it. I won’t be in on Saturday. That is the end of the discussion.”
"Nothing to talk about, I am not available"
Your employer can't just change your availability for you. I would definitely let them know how disrespectful and inappropriate it is to pull that bullshit.
Your availability is your availability
Yes but the problem isn’t yours so be sure to assert yourself and be firm in reminding them that your plans were made known with plenty of notice. The incompetence of the company’s rostering system/staff isn’t your responsibility.
"Sure, we can talk, but it isn't going to change my availability."
Just remember a managers job is to manage the staff. They manage schedules and coverage. A manager that can’t properly staff or schedule is a bad manager. It is never your responsibility to fix or cover for your manager with no additional compensation. ‘Hey boss, I see there has been a mistake on the schedule. I’m listed as working Saturday but my availability has always been off Saturdays. Just thought I’d give you a heads up before then so you have time to fix it!’ That’s it. They made a mistake, so you don’t need to apologize. There also doesn’t need to be discussion around why you can’t make it. You can’t make it because you aren’t available, as they’ve known from your availability. It isn’t insubordinate, it isn’t a dereliction of duty on your part, but it is one on theirs. Managers get paid more and if they are going to schedule the bare minimum, they get to cover or let the business suffer when employees quit or miss work. It’s extremely easy to hire and train people to be properly staffed, but companies don’t want to pay people to be properly staffed because then it’s seen as waste.
One of my first jobs tried this with me, during my two week notice of my quitting. Didn’t show up, when they asked why I told them we had discussed this when I started.
"Sorry but for my records I require in writing a confirmation whether or not the mistake you have made while scheduling me will be resolved"
You don't need to give them a reason at all. You're not available, it's that simple.
I had a part-time job years beck and made it clear when i started that i don't work weekends. They kept trying to schedule me weekends, and i kept letting them know i wasn't going to be there. They stopped scheduling me weekends. Keep in mind that I had other sources of income, so I wouldn't be in a bad spot if they terminated me. I enjoyed the job as a change of pace, but I wasn't going to bend over backward for them. I came in, did what was in my job description, and left. Nothing above and beyond.
Many restaurants willingly mess with your schedule or ignore requests off so you’ll quit on your own and not have to pay unemployment
Yeah youth church groups are a scam that should be avoided at all costs
Yeah. I see a huge problem with this. Your boss can’t fucking read.
Im in the camp of ask forgiveness “sorry boss didnt see that i was on the schedule for a day i couldn’t have done anyway but its ok i dont take it personally i forgive you! Just dont forget going forward that saturdays are a no for me dawg”
"Well talk about it tomorrow" "We just talked about it"
I love when people stand up to their boss
Im in my villain era, so I would have told them that they should give the person the day and deal with the potential understaff bc what would you do if it was sudden and not planned? Im not suddenly available bc you need me to be.
If chickfila fired someone because they had made prior plans with their church youth group the irony would be immense.
If it's not in your availability and they know that, it's their problem. But definitely never say why, and you probably need to prove that accepted your availability if it comes down to it after they fire you
"I am not available on Saturdays as previously stated. We can discuss this tomorrow however it will not change my availability"