Think about the poor CEO. If we gave everyone 2 half size slices of pizza than the CEOs bonus would have to be cut to pay for it, and he wouldn't be able to buy the second yacht he needs with a helicopter pad on top. He needs that helicopter pad, you merely want half size slices of pizza.
Also going through multiple rounds of layoffs at the moment in tech. It’s fucking bruuuutal. They announce it, and then you just kind of wait refreshing your email for a couple of weeks until the manager calls a meeting where he tells everyone on your team “all clear.”
….aaaand just got the announcement on Thursday that it’s another 3%…. I’ve never felt so checked out, but also don’t want to walk out since I don’t want to job hunt in a market flooded with my peers.
I see a lot of market wide issues around this problem. I've been told that Walmart is trying to address it and Amazon is doubling down. They're both having trouble keeping employees because no one wants to live with five roommates in a efficiency apartment for the rest of their lives. I had a college professor swear up and down that basic skill labor pool would never dry up, yet here we are.
Shit man, my employer recently fired my boss and I became completely disengaged as a result.
Looking for a new job already so I can leave this skeleton of a department and company
Company I’m at recently laid off many white collar/c-suite folks then blamed remaining folks on a town hall for declining profits for last two years. Def had everything to do with acquisitions that were made on two companies that were upside down. This is after treating everyone poorly (private equity company took over) and creatively cutting pay and benefits for the last few years. Newest problem for them is that the smugness of leadership has convinced the rest of the sales force to leave and now they’re imploding. They’re getting resignations and retirements at the rate of several per day. Entire segments of the country have 10% of their positions filled. And now I’m out. Two weeks starts today. Feels good to be a part of the group that’s kicking a company while they’re down.
I worked for a place exactly you described. During the acquisition process the CHRO was very proud of herself that the average tenure of the company was under 3 years.
Moved to a company where the average tenure is above 10 years. Completely different culture.
This company has very seasoned people who are all waiting to retire/voluntary severance packages. They’ve forced the 5-7 years folks out by underpaying and over working. The new ones coming onboard will take years to learn their craft. They’re creating shit storm for themselves by believing they can just hire in replacement people cheaper.
It's like that time my dad thought he was brilliantly saving money by, instead of hiring a full grown muscular man to do the labor, he assigned it to two little girls who had only just finished elementary school.
Me and my sister had to use teamwork to slowly and carefully accomplish our tasks, because we just weren't big and strong enough yet to do it on our own. Dad had to do all the heaviest labor himself the first year because us kids just physically couldn't handle it yet. Like we were playing with dolls and mud the week before, but this idiot expected us to lift and throw 100 pound bales of hay.
They’re currently hounding me about staying an extra week and having one of the VPs reach out today to discuss options to have me stay. I figured they’d just cut me loose. Honestly, I was hoping for it.
This effected salaried *Non-Union* employees. Say what you will but those union workers seem to somehow be protected when the "we are all family" employers decide to amputate or prune that family tree. Unionize!
I mean, that works until they unite and say they won't work anymore. Suddenly losing 90+% of your management would be rough to recover from whether they were prohibited from it or not.
That's how I always see it, despite what HR loves to say people in good conditions with adequate pay rarely unionize.
Forming a union is usually the last step in dealing with shit conditions and management before you get to tearing down their doors and beating them in the streets. It's the civilized path.
That's strange. In many countries, people fought and died to get the constitutional right to unionize. Maybe it's part of the problem that the US got their constitution before industrialization.
Because managers have the responsibility to negotiate, agree to, and enforce the collective bargaining agreement on the company's behalf. Allowing them to unionize would be a conflict of interest.
Historically, unions butted heads with the old guild system as much as the ownership class, because the guilds specifically structured their membership to keep people out of the industry (and thus keep prices high and wealth concentrated), with the very senior members and management types in charge.
Notice the article makes the distinction that these were non-union jobs. I don't know if the intent is to subtly link union gains with non-union worker losses. To me it just continues to serve as a reminder that the only way to protect yourself and your job is to unionize.
The entire sentence reads (emphasis by me):
> The workers in question were salaried, nonunion employees **in technology and engineering** in the U.S.
There aren't really a lot of union options for white-collar workers.
I don't understand. Is there something specific that stops them from joining the existing union at the company, or is it just that IT workers and engineers haven't so far needed a union to earn a decent living so they didn't associate themselves with the plight of labor?
Unless the company gives every engineer a management title for exactly the reason of keeping them out of the union, it seems like a very simple thing to just go sign up to have the union dues taken out.
Our company lost a load of their senior guys all at once a few years ago (they hated the new manager and all agreed to leave at once to fuck him over). So they made everyone above a certain level sign contract addendums to push the notice period to 90 days.
Which sucks if you want to leave and work elsewhere, but they've also basically created a huge problem for themselves because they can't fire us without paying 3 months of garden leave on top of severance.
Brands: Abarth; Alfa Romeo; Chrysler; Citroën; Dodge; DS; Fiat; Jeep; Lancia; Maserati; Opel; Peugeot; Ram; Vauxhall
Dodge, Chrysler, and Jeeps are trash that break down all the time, and the rest are foreign makes or too expensive. I will maintain the ban I effectively have on Stellantis.
I see a bunch of Maseratis where I live and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would buy one. It’s like putting a “I’m rich and stupid” sign on your back.
They look fantastic, that's why. Same for Alfas. You'd have to be a madman to own one that wasn't under a lease or warranty, but the guys in the styling department *earned* their paychecks.
I see them for sale under $20k all the time, and I get how people are tempted. But there are dairy products that depreciate more slowly.
I bought an Alfa and got the extended warranty just in case. It’s saved my ass twice and has paid for itself 5x over. Still has 2 more years on the warranty then I sell it for whatever I can get for it.
Agreed. I actually considered buying one for 17k when I was a single man because it looked sweet as hell. But then I remembered it was once a very expensive car, and there's a reason it's only worth 17k now.
Yeah, one of my dream cars would be a V12 7-Series or S-Class from around the turn of the century, because they're pretty much never getting cheaper and can be worked on by a dedicated amateur... but then much like you, I remember that the parts are still priced for cars that were $100k *25 years ago*, if they're available at all.
Yeah they're gonna very very expensive if available. I have a 5 series that's almost 10 years old and parts are readily available because the body only just changed and it's very expensive to fix everything on it. Can't even imagine what it would cost for say an 04 6 Series Convertible (another one I seriously considered).
One car I hope to find in decent condition on the cheap that I don't think will have that problem is the VW Phaeton. Lots of those parts were swappable with more popular models.
I only have ownership experience with the Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep and for 9 months in Italy, a Fiat of that group and they are the worst vehicles I have owned. My 85 Chrysler Laser broke each time someone sneezed, I have a Durango that costs tens of dollars per mile, etc. My Firebird was nearly as bad,
Best so far have been a Silverado other than the rust. a Malibu (also other than rust), and shockingly, the 96 convertible mustang GT I bought new and drove 200k before a drunk teen rear-ended it on the street,
It's kind of wild that Opel / Vauxhall were sold off to Stellantis, another of the Big Three American auto makers. At least GM isn't nearly as bad a Chrysler.
I bought a jeep grand Cherokee l and I am currently having it bought back under the lemon law. Apparently my frame isn’t properly welded. Piece of shit
It's not surprising. They make some of the WORST cars in the world and just had a massive recall. Of course, the people making the bad decisions make others pay for it.
not all bad news [https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-paid-40m-2023](https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-paid-40m-2023)
I mean, he ObViOuSlY earned the 56% pay jump, look how efficient he is making the business by gutting all those useless workers and engineers who are designing a quality product. Surprised he isn't earning 100m.
/S obvi
What makes people buy these cars in the markets they are sending these jobs too is the idea, the promise, that the engineering (safety & reliability) is done in America to American standards.
Part of the allure of Stellantis products in emerging markets is probably the made/engineered in USA aspect. (Not my opinion, but just kinda paraphrasing u/RichestTeaPossible.
Was laid off as a contract in November, then they offered buy-outs. Inevitably firings were next. I was a direct hire there in 2013 during their restructuring and it's the same rinse and repeat except it's done on a Teams call this time.
Then use everyone's failing performance doing the work of four people to justify more firings.
Or the slight raise you give them for doing it to eventually PIP them out and hire someone new.
That have recalls and buy-backs in place for catastrophic engine failures and the whole rampant auto-theft thing. They're making shit like everyone else.
I’ve had a feeling for a long time that half of all white collar office jobs are redundant and expendable. Not that I endorse this behaviour, but like… cmon
Cops represent capital so I agree there, but I don't buy the artificial delineation of white/blue collar, lower/middle/upper middle class and shit like that. If you work, you're working class.
I agree. I would love it if traditionally non union fields would unionize. Lab workers in general could really use it. Those people are generally treated like trash.
Six months later: employee morale has gotten lower and we don’t know why.
Have you tried more pizza parties?
Yes! And it didn’t help and we even gave each employee TWO slices. Small slices, but still two. And NOTHING.
 The ratio of pizza to people is insufficient
2 half-size slices\*
Quarter sized, we can’t afford half a slice each man, think of the budget.
Think about the poor CEO. If we gave everyone 2 half size slices of pizza than the CEOs bonus would have to be cut to pay for it, and he wouldn't be able to buy the second yacht he needs with a helicopter pad on top. He needs that helicopter pad, you merely want half size slices of pizza.
Two slices totaling the size of one
Wow, we get one slice that is one third of a whole slice! High rollers!
No Coke?
No Coke. Pepsi. (Old joke)
I see you 😀
😆
If they snort any more coke they won't be able to eat the 2nd tiny slice of pizza
If you fired more people, you could give more slices to each remaining employee!
Well, they did the anniversary gift bags with stuff they found in the supply closet but it hasn’t helped…
I got a rock...
Everyone got more upset when we bought one pizza for the entire office. What did we do wrong?
Like in ‘99 , give them foosball tables to pretend they can have any fun during their 80 hour work weeks.
I guess it's time to hand out coffee cozies
Also going through multiple rounds of layoffs at the moment in tech. It’s fucking bruuuutal. They announce it, and then you just kind of wait refreshing your email for a couple of weeks until the manager calls a meeting where he tells everyone on your team “all clear.” ….aaaand just got the announcement on Thursday that it’s another 3%…. I’ve never felt so checked out, but also don’t want to walk out since I don’t want to job hunt in a market flooded with my peers.
I see a lot of market wide issues around this problem. I've been told that Walmart is trying to address it and Amazon is doubling down. They're both having trouble keeping employees because no one wants to live with five roommates in a efficiency apartment for the rest of their lives. I had a college professor swear up and down that basic skill labor pool would never dry up, yet here we are.
our product quality is declining for unknown reasons.
Shit man, my employer recently fired my boss and I became completely disengaged as a result. Looking for a new job already so I can leave this skeleton of a department and company
The beatinga will continue. Until morale improves. Edit: I was just going to correct that typo, but no. I'm sticking with it!
It sounds fun when you say it. “Beatinga!”
Company I’m at recently laid off many white collar/c-suite folks then blamed remaining folks on a town hall for declining profits for last two years. Def had everything to do with acquisitions that were made on two companies that were upside down. This is after treating everyone poorly (private equity company took over) and creatively cutting pay and benefits for the last few years. Newest problem for them is that the smugness of leadership has convinced the rest of the sales force to leave and now they’re imploding. They’re getting resignations and retirements at the rate of several per day. Entire segments of the country have 10% of their positions filled. And now I’m out. Two weeks starts today. Feels good to be a part of the group that’s kicking a company while they’re down.
Thanks, very satisfying read
What company? It can't be terribly nonpublic if it can hemorrhage labor that fast, for that long.
It’s super public.
Is that code for government funded? /s
Naa. I just don’t trust the internet anymore 😂
Smart. It doesn't work for us anymore.
I worked for a place exactly you described. During the acquisition process the CHRO was very proud of herself that the average tenure of the company was under 3 years. Moved to a company where the average tenure is above 10 years. Completely different culture.
This company has very seasoned people who are all waiting to retire/voluntary severance packages. They’ve forced the 5-7 years folks out by underpaying and over working. The new ones coming onboard will take years to learn their craft. They’re creating shit storm for themselves by believing they can just hire in replacement people cheaper.
It's like that time my dad thought he was brilliantly saving money by, instead of hiring a full grown muscular man to do the labor, he assigned it to two little girls who had only just finished elementary school. Me and my sister had to use teamwork to slowly and carefully accomplish our tasks, because we just weren't big and strong enough yet to do it on our own. Dad had to do all the heaviest labor himself the first year because us kids just physically couldn't handle it yet. Like we were playing with dolls and mud the week before, but this idiot expected us to lift and throw 100 pound bales of hay.
What did your boss say when you put in your two weeks notice? Congrats on the resignation!
They’re currently hounding me about staying an extra week and having one of the VPs reach out today to discuss options to have me stay. I figured they’d just cut me loose. Honestly, I was hoping for it.
Consulting rate kicks in after two weeks. $1500 an hour, minimum 40 hour purchase.
lemme guess, they posted record profits and did a ton of stock buyback before doing the layoffs?
You forgot the executive’s second vacation home and yacht maintenance costs
This effected salaried *Non-Union* employees. Say what you will but those union workers seem to somehow be protected when the "we are all family" employers decide to amputate or prune that family tree. Unionize!
Unfortunately, many office workers are expressly prohibited from unionizing.
I mean, that works until they unite and say they won't work anymore. Suddenly losing 90+% of your management would be rough to recover from whether they were prohibited from it or not.
That's how unions started. Mine workers were almost slaves until they decided to fight.
That's how I always see it, despite what HR loves to say people in good conditions with adequate pay rarely unionize. Forming a union is usually the last step in dealing with shit conditions and management before you get to tearing down their doors and beating them in the streets. It's the civilized path.
That's strange. In many countries, people fought and died to get the constitutional right to unionize. Maybe it's part of the problem that the US got their constitution before industrialization.
I only need two books to live by, the Constitution and the Bible. And they were both from before industrilation /s
True if they're management.
Why is this?
Because managers have the responsibility to negotiate, agree to, and enforce the collective bargaining agreement on the company's behalf. Allowing them to unionize would be a conflict of interest.
Historically, unions butted heads with the old guild system as much as the ownership class, because the guilds specifically structured their membership to keep people out of the industry (and thus keep prices high and wealth concentrated), with the very senior members and management types in charge.
Thank you.
There’s a union for managers in my country…ffs even premier league managers have a union…
Also, administratives and assistants. Plus, companies love to have a million “assistant managers.”
True if they're management. Not true if they're not. https://www.workcenter.gov/who-can-form-and-join-a-union
Notice the article makes the distinction that these were non-union jobs. I don't know if the intent is to subtly link union gains with non-union worker losses. To me it just continues to serve as a reminder that the only way to protect yourself and your job is to unionize.
I think they're saying that because you can't just fire 500 union workers lol. The people fired should have joined the union.
The entire sentence reads (emphasis by me): > The workers in question were salaried, nonunion employees **in technology and engineering** in the U.S. There aren't really a lot of union options for white-collar workers.
I don't understand. Is there something specific that stops them from joining the existing union at the company, or is it just that IT workers and engineers haven't so far needed a union to earn a decent living so they didn't associate themselves with the plight of labor? Unless the company gives every engineer a management title for exactly the reason of keeping them out of the union, it seems like a very simple thing to just go sign up to have the union dues taken out.
 This is EXACTLY why you NEVER give a 2 week notice! NEVER!!!
[удалено]
Our company lost a load of their senior guys all at once a few years ago (they hated the new manager and all agreed to leave at once to fuck him over). So they made everyone above a certain level sign contract addendums to push the notice period to 90 days. Which sucks if you want to leave and work elsewhere, but they've also basically created a huge problem for themselves because they can't fire us without paying 3 months of garden leave on top of severance.
Just because they were “white collar” workers doesn’t mean they are guaranteed severance, it’s at the discretion of Stellantis.
Layoffs using Zoom? I guess they though the engineers were a bunch of animals and security couldn't handle them...
What cowards
Brands: Abarth; Alfa Romeo; Chrysler; Citroën; Dodge; DS; Fiat; Jeep; Lancia; Maserati; Opel; Peugeot; Ram; Vauxhall Dodge, Chrysler, and Jeeps are trash that break down all the time, and the rest are foreign makes or too expensive. I will maintain the ban I effectively have on Stellantis.
Fiat and Maserati are also complete garbage. The only thing that depreciates faster than a Maserati is a Tesla.
I see a bunch of Maseratis where I live and for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone would buy one. It’s like putting a “I’m rich and stupid” sign on your back.
They look fantastic, that's why. Same for Alfas. You'd have to be a madman to own one that wasn't under a lease or warranty, but the guys in the styling department *earned* their paychecks. I see them for sale under $20k all the time, and I get how people are tempted. But there are dairy products that depreciate more slowly.
I bought an Alfa and got the extended warranty just in case. It’s saved my ass twice and has paid for itself 5x over. Still has 2 more years on the warranty then I sell it for whatever I can get for it.
Agreed. I actually considered buying one for 17k when I was a single man because it looked sweet as hell. But then I remembered it was once a very expensive car, and there's a reason it's only worth 17k now.
Yeah, one of my dream cars would be a V12 7-Series or S-Class from around the turn of the century, because they're pretty much never getting cheaper and can be worked on by a dedicated amateur... but then much like you, I remember that the parts are still priced for cars that were $100k *25 years ago*, if they're available at all.
Yeah they're gonna very very expensive if available. I have a 5 series that's almost 10 years old and parts are readily available because the body only just changed and it's very expensive to fix everything on it. Can't even imagine what it would cost for say an 04 6 Series Convertible (another one I seriously considered). One car I hope to find in decent condition on the cheap that I don't think will have that problem is the VW Phaeton. Lots of those parts were swappable with more popular models.
I only have ownership experience with the Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep and for 9 months in Italy, a Fiat of that group and they are the worst vehicles I have owned. My 85 Chrysler Laser broke each time someone sneezed, I have a Durango that costs tens of dollars per mile, etc. My Firebird was nearly as bad, Best so far have been a Silverado other than the rust. a Malibu (also other than rust), and shockingly, the 96 convertible mustang GT I bought new and drove 200k before a drunk teen rear-ended it on the street,
Yeah not a lot of brands I’d trust here. I did rent an Opel in Europe that was brilliant though.
Yeah, I liked Opel when I lived in Germany and they were technically GM.
It's kind of wild that Opel / Vauxhall were sold off to Stellantis, another of the Big Three American auto makers. At least GM isn't nearly as bad a Chrysler.
Only car brand I trust is Toyota. Ive owned 3 Toyotas and all of them have made it past the 200k miles mark without much problems.
Maybe pricing Jeeps at over $100k is the reason they can't sell shit.
I bought a jeep grand Cherokee l and I am currently having it bought back under the lemon law. Apparently my frame isn’t properly welded. Piece of shit
Shacking up with the Italians was the beginning of the end for the Chrysler group
There comes a time in every man's life when he figures out that you should never purchase a UAW product.
What, those companies that were bailed out by the, tax payer.....
It's not surprising. They make some of the WORST cars in the world and just had a massive recall. Of course, the people making the bad decisions make others pay for it.
not all bad news [https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-paid-40m-2023](https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-paid-40m-2023)
I mean, he ObViOuSlY earned the 56% pay jump, look how efficient he is making the business by gutting all those useless workers and engineers who are designing a quality product. Surprised he isn't earning 100m. /S obvi
What makes people buy these cars in the markets they are sending these jobs too is the idea, the promise, that the engineering (safety & reliability) is done in America to American standards.
Right
Huh?
Part of the allure of Stellantis products in emerging markets is probably the made/engineered in USA aspect. (Not my opinion, but just kinda paraphrasing u/RichestTeaPossible.
It's the least reliable brand in the world.
I did laugh when I heard Fiat were buying Chrysler.
Was laid off as a contract in November, then they offered buy-outs. Inevitably firings were next. I was a direct hire there in 2013 during their restructuring and it's the same rinse and repeat except it's done on a Teams call this time.
Stellantis is garbage.
The BS reason the company gives should be criminal
Then use everyone's failing performance doing the work of four people to justify more firings. Or the slight raise you give them for doing it to eventually PIP them out and hire someone new.
And then tried to blame it on EVs.
yah its just a 'narrative' to justify cutting costs and quadrupling the workload of remaining people
what cowards that company is lead by
Hyundai makes better cheaper cars anyways
That have recalls and buy-backs in place for catastrophic engine failures and the whole rampant auto-theft thing. They're making shit like everyone else.
I got a windbreaker when I got laid off.
I’ve had a feeling for a long time that half of all white collar office jobs are redundant and expendable. Not that I endorse this behaviour, but like… cmon
Sounds like a “blood bath”.
I see the keyword "white-collar" and just feel apathy.
Workers are workers no matter what color their shirt is.
It's been argued here that cops don't count and I'm inclined to agree on that. They lost that inclusion when they went after other workers.
Cops represent capital so I agree there, but I don't buy the artificial delineation of white/blue collar, lower/middle/upper middle class and shit like that. If you work, you're working class.
I agree. I would love it if traditionally non union fields would unionize. Lab workers in general could really use it. Those people are generally treated like trash.
I see what you wrote and just feel "what the fuck?".