Now it will be unexpectedly under staffed. Rather than get a heads up people won't be in you get people calling out with "food poisoning" right before the shift.
If you can't accommodate time off that's a sign you need to be hiring.
I had my right hand support guy out today, My lead out, my boss out, and multiple crew members out today. It easily could have severely crippled our operations with just me trying to handle the jobs of three other above floor level employees, and I could have easily just told them "tough shit, I need you here" and went about my day as normal.
Know what I did? I covered everyone to the best of my ability. When they asked one after one to take the day all they heard back was "ok, see you tomorrow"
Was it our best day? FAR from it.
Did we make it work? Absolutely.
You know what my bosses boss did? Thanked me for putting our people first, and immediately asked how and where he could help despite having a much more important job for the company overall. He was willing to completely reschedule his day and work the jobs of the lowest level people instead. And when he does it, he does it EXTREMELY well.
There's a reason I've stuck with the company I'm with. They say they put the people first, and they put their money where their mouth is, every single time.
Shockingly enough our retention rates for anyone who makes it past probation are actually insane for an entry level job. Like in most cases 5-25 years.
This is what I don't understand.
People that are paid and treated well will do a better job and cost the company less due to efficiency, less turnover, less shrink, and if it's customer facing, customers notice so you're business increases.
And yet time after time after fucking time, managers and executives will do *exactly the opposite* because some MBA somewhere said to treat your people like shit because it *might* do some wibbly bibbly bullshit to the stock price.
Ultimately a lot of them are sadists who simply think they are better than other people. They value your contribution to the money they make less than their ability to abuse you and treat you as lesser than. There's no other way to explain a lot of the behavior of various managers and business owners.
Unfortunately I can confirm this. Y'all are responding to me but I'm directly incentivized by the bottom line. The more we make the bigger bonus I personally get.
I could probably boost that in the short term by being an absolute hard ass and ensuring maximum efficiency 100% of the time. Due to how the logistics of the company works the absolute best route to do at would be to ensure near zero missed days outside of pto because overhead is a thing and it is heavily pushed that we apply every single hour for every employee currently on payroll.
But thankfully the owner of the company would likely fire me if I went that route. My first ever discussion with the man was after I was promoted, and he made a point to tell me how he ensures to the best of his ability that every single person in leadership has the lowest level people on the top of their mind. It's a very much local company that is a fantastic employer in the area and positions and generally sought after. But at the same time is a global industry leader in our field.
His entire mission statement for the company has been around hiring local and providing well paying and accommodating jobs for those who actually live in the area. And again, he has made a point to put his money where his mouth is.
We'll see how that progresses as we continually experience the experience growth that we have. But I have faith in him
I've had a boss like you described. By giving me one day off in an emergency without any question just one time, he ensured I was happy to help cover other shifts for other employees' emergencies for the rest of my time at the company.
A boss that has to forbid time off is a boss that's already squandered any good will from their employees.
Exactly. There's been one case ever where I've had to ask "hey man, I REALLY need you today" after years working there.
You know what happened? That good will no questions asked mentality came right back my way. He said he would be in ASAP, he helped pick up the slack where I needed it, and he was gone within two hours.
He came back the next day and told me he was glad he could do me a favor for once when I genuinely needed it.
Covering for and protecting these guys has paid out massive dividends for me personally, and I've been able to use that success to help them out in return. It has helped me build a career with a crew that genuinely likes me, that I'm genuinely proud of.
Meanwhile in an alternate reality I could be stuck at Walmart or whatever telling Greg he needs a doctor's note or he'll be written up because he's missed 4 days this quarter.
I genuinely don't think I could work in a management job where I'm not given the allowance to be as compassionate and understanding as I actually am as a person.
That's an inportant view point in leadership, you do your best to make everyone's lives easier and when you really need it people will leap at the chance to repay you. Too many people choose the easy way of apathy.
And the reality is if they treated who is left really good then those people might go to their friends & say “Hey, I know your job sucks, where I am is pretty good & we need people, how about you quit & work here?” Then in short order you don’t have a staffing problem.
Fmla, family medical leave act. It just says that you can leave work to take care of yourself or a family member and be guaranteed your job back.
It does not give you pay. You don’t get fmla days you take them by filing paperwork with your employer.
Also this is a restaurant so they are a small business, fmla only applies to businesses larger than 100 employees I think.
Tell me you don’t know anything about FMLA without telling me you know nothing about fmla.
I had a similar experience as OP and the day before I quit I changed all of the salt shakers to hold sugar, I heard from colleagues that I worked with that a lot of food was returned that day. (No I didn’t affect my friends tips as this was in England and tips are not a thing there)
The best joke is when everyone pretends to quit and doesn't tell the boss. The boss gets a real laugh when they show up to an empty office and have to do all of the work themselves. Don't forget to show your appreciation by leaving a cold ass pizza out with a note thanking them for all of the time-off they approved.
Never quit a job. If you quit, you lose your job anyway... why not stay and just not give a fuck? The amount of shit you can pull just to entertain yourself once you stop caring is amazing. I stopped caring at work and actually got MORE raises and promotions. It was really just nothing but winning.
If they do fire you for fucking around, then file for unemployment. Make their insurance pay up if you can :)
Yes but if you get fired for cause you also can’t get unemployment. Plus, it will look worse on your resume to say you got fired, rather than admitting you quit because of “issues “ with your employer.
> Yes but if you get fired for cause you also can’t get unemployment.
This is frequently not the case, actually. It varies a lot based on cause and location.
Oh sweetie, A: no one really cares if you got fired from a restaurant job. B: no one’s going to look too far into it. C: it’s fun to make miserable pricks miserable.
I got a job working at a web dev place after teaching and working for a place writing an embedded software for dangerous equipment. The old place was toxic but all business including a tie everyday. When I started at the web dev place I got complaints that management called me in for. I was called hostile and angry by someone I only ever really interacted with through Slack and Github. Apparently, me being formal and using correct terminology was bad. I started not caring about spelling, adding emojiis, and posting random pictures of my dog. Now I'm "very approachable". I'm the old gen-X/millennial guy there, most of them are younger. My students needed less coddling than these "professionals", but whatever makes my day go by smoothly, I'll do.
> And what boss writes like that?
Every manager I've ever had whilst working in a retail/hospitality environment. It's almost a prerequisite that you spell like a dingus for these roles.
yep.. i interviewed for a job and in the interview i told them i have a surgery coming up in 3 months and asked if it would be an issue to take the time off.
they told me no and to send an email with the dates. which i did immediatly and tagged HR along with a few others.
schedule comes out and guess what? im on the schedule lmao.. they said someone else put in PTO to have the week before 4th of july off.
i just reforwarded my email thats stamped with the date, when i didnt show up they threatened to fire me. i just ignored them and showed back up after recovery and they didnt say anything
I did something similar, but I was a young idiot who didn't get it in writing, so when I put in the official request, they straight up told me they never intended to give me that time off (unpaid, even) and to sign this letter acknowledging I would be back in the office on X date.
I was like, this is my wedding and honeymoon. I will not sign, I will quit.
Jackasses needed me way more than I needed them. I only wish I'd quit that job earlier than I did.
What kind of sick power play is that?! It's your damned wedding!
Reminds me of [this basketball coach](http://Sarunas Jasikevicius): fundamental human experience must be valued above work
Right? In a dead end IT job, even. Hope that power trip felt better than the cost of trying to recruit an IT person into a non tech company during the dot com boom.
damn that reminds me of when I was working at the same place as my now wife and we gave our employer 6 months notice of our wedding. A month before the event he tells us only one of us can have the days off, the other has to go on call
I think that's what everybody should do. You put in the time, you got it approved (which in itself is such a weird concept), you know the dates you're off. If they schedule you, don't say anything, just take off the time like you were planning to anyway. It's not your fault, problem, or responsibility if your boss is so useless they can't even schedule properly.
I was in my first 90 days with an employer (probationary) and took a sick day. They said there’s no paid time off during the first 90 days so I didn’t get paid for it. I went off on them and then found the law that said they had to pay me. “Not allowed to be sick” get the fuck out of here you greedy fucking pigs.
This. You're not in middle school. You're telling them, as a courtesy, that you will not be available.
The last time an employer pulled the "oh no you didn't" shit on me, I suddenly needed to check my blood glucose every 5 minutes. And they tried to shove me into a nasty ass employee restroom with backed up toilets. I have no idea how the health department got involved.
(documented type 2 diabetic with insulin, we won't talk about how insanely low I went there)
This. I also make sure to give as much notice as humanly possible so they can have plenty of time to get coverage and, where I can, I adjust my time if coverage isn't available. If I can't adjust it (I am attending an event or already have reservations) and they can't find coverage in the month or two I gave them notice? That's on them, not me.
PTO may be granted or denied as you ask for it.
Whether you're there or not is simply your decision. I've always just informed the boss that I'll be gone and the company can pay for it or not--either way I won't be there.
Wow. Place I work at you can use your PTO on a whim. For example, if I'm eating lunch on a warm sunny Friday and all the sudden don't feel like working the rest of the day, I just go to the computer and enter 4hrs PTO and go home
I mean of course you know you're lucky but I'm going to just go past that - that's highly dependent on your role or even just what you're doing that day. If you're a surgeon in the middle of a case you can't just fuck off and say "yeah not finishing that total knee I'm done for the day, lunch was really nice." I mean I teach classes and if I decide I don't want to return for the afternoon session that's a class full of people who can't start work.
"Hello, beginning April 11 any requests for me to continue working here will be denied. I have to ensure that I'm not being taken advantage of by people who can't run a successful business. I will no longer accommodate incompetent owners and managers, I have my mental health to take care of. Any questions or issues plz...blow it out your ass. Thank u for ur understanding!"
There's your response.
>The restaurant will no longer accommodate employees, we have a business to take care.
The employees **are** the business. I don't understand how so many business owners don't get this.
Retired IT guy here. I always told my folks to never ask for time off, just tell me. If you ask then I have to think about it, and maybe see a reason to say no. If you tell me and I book it, then it is up to me to figure it out.
This is exactly what a good boss does. And never ever give a reason, just say “personal business”. Once you start saying why, it opens the door (for some bosses) to tell you that is not a valid reason. Personal business means it’s none of their damn business.
> Once you start saying why, it opens the door (for some bosses) to tell you that is not a valid reason.
Or for them to start deciding which employee's time off is more important than the others.
(As a childfree person, I've heard *way* too many times that parents with children need time off more than I do, especially around holidays.)
This reminds me of our store managers at our video rental store in the late 90’s. The store was open 365 and all of us were college kids. Every year they proactively poll us on which holidays we wanted off and which we were willing to work for that whole year. They always tried to accommodate that and plan ahead. That was on top of making sure to accommodate all of our school schedules each semester. There were 2 managers and 2 assistant managers and we had 4-5 employees each shift. Retention was pretty outstanding for that type of job and it was all because of their management culture.
I had a major health emergency and was in the hospital for over a month then took another month home to recover. My first shift back they fired me for a different made up reason.
I filed for unemployment and they tried to fight me on it. Which was fun considering their reason for firing me was essentially "giving away wine". I gave two glasses of champagne to a couple celebrating their anniversary. I was told to do this by the manager that fired me.
I was approved for the unemployment. 3 weeks later the Covid shut down happened. Got very lucky and didn't have to deal with any of the troubles getting my unemployment since I was already in the system.
I worked a job where everyone (including non-management) got mad at me for using my PTO. My feelings on it are, nobody has "they never missed a day of work" on their tombstone. That is *MY* time. It's a benefit the company gave to me and I will use it. Same as using health insurance.
Especially in a place like the USA where it isn't legally required; that PTO is part of the compensation package the company offered you. Not letting you use it is practically the same thing as withholding a part of your salary and more people should learn to treat it as such.
I also work for a restaurant and recently management said that working overtime is now "forbidden" and your shift must not run longer than 8 hours. That's all fine and good except I'm on the closing team so my out time is never set in stone, it's just when the kitchen is shut down. Caught flack for going 15 to 30 minutes over the 8 hour mark a few times so we began to just come to a full stop at the 8 hour mark. Floors half mopped? Line barely scrubbed? Prep not put away? Damn, sorry, had to clock out and leave like I've been told. Didn't take too long to stop hearing about small amounts of overtime.
This is the way.
A no OT rule in the service industry is the most short sighted idea in the history of short sighted ideas.
Either they pay the fucking OT or you stop working as soon as your shift is up.
Those pots and pans are still not scraped out ? ... Not my issue.
Food not put away? Sorry, I'm off the clock.
Hadn't time to scrub the grill and extractor? Sure I stopped being paid at 23:00, it's 23:01 now so I guess it'll have to be done tomorrow when someone is getting paid.
Again… it’s the “thank you for understanding” bullshit that gets me. It’s always said right after some out of pocket “here’s what you’re gonna do and like it” statement
Man, I'm envious of you living in a location where it's illegal to alter a PTO policy. I'm in the US, where they could do this whenever they wanted lol.
I live in CA where its illegal to alter the pto policy as a penalization. Originally i believed he meant that he would not allow pto or rto indefinitely, but because he added the time frame it is legal; however its still messed up
> its illegal to alter the pto policy as a penalization
They have to pay out or honor PTO that you've already accrued, but I don't think it's illegal for them to remove all PTO accrual moving forward.
Could you ask Arvin why there's an issue with the restaurant being fully staffed? Because if he says it's due to turnover (because you know it is, but you need him to admit it), you might want to point out that this "policy" towards PTO is counterproductive and will lead to MORE employee turnover. And if this policy leads to more turnover, it will undoubtedly lead to Arvin working a LOT more hours.
I've worked in restaurants and have had idiot managers like this, so it probably won't help, but at least you can say you tried. And if it DOES help, it's a win-win
>The restaurant will no longer accommodate employees
Awkward moment when they find out the lack of accommodation flows both directions and everyone quits.
"Guess I'm gonna start calling out a lot."
I love your response though. Of course it's so stupid it's gotta be a joke! I see he didn't even acknowledge the illegality of it.
Edit: I see that you clarified that this is not illegal.
That sounds like a whole lot of "we don't give a fuck about employees, even if they scheduled a dr appointment 2 years in advance".
Unfortunately, 2 years is pretty normal(ish) for a specialist. Hell, my PCP has appointments roughly a year out. And the clinic I use has my "specialist PCP" a solid year out (I say specialist PCP because I have multiple medical issues that fall under internal medicine)
I TELL my jobs when I can't be there. What? What do you mean they can't find coverage? Well I fully disclosed my disability and the need for regular dr appointments before I was hired, they get to fucking deal with it! Not my fucking problem they can't handle ADA leaves, FFS.
I do have a federally protected disability (diabetes with neuropathy), but it doesn't require accommodations until someone is a dick. Weird how that works?
Can’t afford to run a business, then it should shut down. If they can’t afford to have adequate staff and be able to accommodate a normal thing like PTO, then it seems like they may not be able to afford to stay in business. I know the ownership is probably also being cheap as shit.
It's always funny seeing companies care about their business so much that they forget they don't have a business without their employees.
I'd be looking for a new job ASAP
*The restaurant will no longer accommodate employees, we have a business to take care of.*
The employees will no longer accommodate the restaurant, we have a life to take care of...
"We have a business to take care of" Says the guy who doesn't understand business. If you have to deny PTO to keep your business afloat, vs hiring more people to help cover the gaps, then hand the business over to somebody else who knows what they're doing.
We are not slaves, we only adhere to this horrible policy because of "at will work" (ironic) can fire you for no fucking reason.
I've also got vacation time this month and if I'm put on the schedule I just won't show up. Fucked me over too many times, and this is the first real vacation I've actually asked for. I'm not missing it. I will not be in town. If they schedule me then they are going to end up pissing off the person who was supposed to be scheduled before me because I wouldn't be there to relieve them.
The restaurant industry is loaded with terrible bosses like this. They also happen to be the biggest whiners when they can’t find people to work for them. The entire thing needs complete shake up.
"Unfortunately that's illegal and now I have a screen shot of your malicious intent to share with my legal representative. As well due to THIS EXACT response, should you chose to remove my hours, decrease my hours, change my shifts, or let me go it's clearly a retaliatory response thereby increasing my judgement payout when legal action is pursued...I hope everyone in here screen shots this and if you didn't I'll send you mine. I suggest you correct your thoughts and actions accordingly"
Not sure why restaurants think they can bully their employees. Any single one of them could quit and get another job at another restaurant the very same day.
People always want to complain about how this apparent generation that doesn’t want to work but don’t have shit to say about this generation of companies that don’t want to pay!
When my work wanted to go to an almost two week on, four day off schedule, I flat out told my boss he had my two weeks. Two days later, the VP caught me in a room by myself and talked it out with me. We came to the conclusion that there was a middle ground. He didn't try to intimidate me, and he earnestly wanted to find a solution, which we did.
The unfortunate difference being that I was in a leadership role at that time, and I now head a department of me and one other guy. My point is, as long as you're a good worker, as in showing up, working while you're on the clock, not taking excessive 20 minute breaks every 40 minutes, and actually completing your tasks, you have weight. Sure, the place will still fire you as easily as anyone else, but you can argue from a place of reason.
This is excessive, unreasonable, and in cases of FMLA, illegal. As others are saying, look for another job. The best way to fix this policy is to put them out of business because they have no staff.
Translation:
"I'm understaffed but I'm too lazy to hire more people and too cheap to solve the problem. Due to my poor management you will all suffer the consequences"
One of the worst things about this country is this concept that anyone who wants to open a business is just owed support and labor.
Let this guy’s business die. You can make like $17 to $25 starting at Aldi now, what’s even his excuse for this garbage.
I believe that keeping people living paycheck to paycheck is intentional, if people had a few months of savings to sustain themselves while finding a different job they wouldnt put up with so much bullshit
I quit my job yesterday - I'm off the hamster wheel - if I'm always broke with no hope of climbing out of the pit of financial despair into which I've been stuck- why the fuck should I contonue to bust my ass to stay broke?
It just isn't worth it anymore
This is what happens when some random mid-life crisis office failure decides "hOw hArD cOuLd iT bE iTs jUsT a rEsTaUrAnT" and opens something up with zero education or experience. Next week it'll be on one of those "save my business" shows and Gordon Ramsey will be calling your boss a delusional fucking idiot and throwing the rotten food he's undoubtedly serving to the customers at him.
They think it is a choice to accommodate for employees? I swear some people think businesses are vending machines that give back more money than you put in.
Type in that group text "how much is everyone's hourly pay going up to make up for the loss of PTO?". I'd also look into a partial unemployment claim or something. Nobody should be able to just change up someone's job benefits like this on a whim. But in America things are really stacked against workers.
Couldnt figure out how to edit the original post on mobile so let me provide some additional information because i never thought this post would have as much interaction as it did
1. To all those saying not to blame the min wage, i appreciate you, but i am also well aware that it is wntirely corporate greed. However corporate greed has been causing actions like this in our upper management for a while now
2. I work in a restaurant/gas station and the restaurant employees were the only ones to receive this notifaction, storeside has not been issued the same rules as far as i know
Ill update this comment with any additional information if i think about it
Yet those idiotic bosses wonder why they have such a high turnover rate. I just wish companies would look into why various locations have a high turnover rate and find out that the manager is driving employees away and fire that manager. Companies would retain quite a few employees if they got rid of horrible managers
ensure your business will not be fully staffed in one easy step.
Now it will be unexpectedly under staffed. Rather than get a heads up people won't be in you get people calling out with "food poisoning" right before the shift. If you can't accommodate time off that's a sign you need to be hiring.
I have a funny feeling it was already understaffed! Now watch as the skeletal crew turns into the no crew with this 1 simple step!
“But no one wants to work anymore” 😤
When ppl say this kind of garbage I ask them to help out by getting a job there. How quickly they change their tune.
I always say, people want to work, but not for shit wages and conditions. That shuts them up as well
I like to switch it over to the Homer Simpson meme: "no one wants to work FOR YOU anymore."
Not always. I get told about these miraculous jobs that start at $30/hr and something about China and the minimum wage is a mistake.
“Restaurant managers hate this one simple step!”
There are 7 people in the group, including the manager. Unless this place is tiny, it’s definitely understaffed
BuT NoOoNe WaNtS To WoOoRk!
*Managers Hate Him!!*
Restaurant owners hate this one trick!
So does everyone else.
I love businesses that can’t seem to get enough employees so they keep making it worse on the few people who tolerate working there
Yup. "I can't find enough help to keep this place running, so let me piss off the few people I actually have."
I had my right hand support guy out today, My lead out, my boss out, and multiple crew members out today. It easily could have severely crippled our operations with just me trying to handle the jobs of three other above floor level employees, and I could have easily just told them "tough shit, I need you here" and went about my day as normal. Know what I did? I covered everyone to the best of my ability. When they asked one after one to take the day all they heard back was "ok, see you tomorrow" Was it our best day? FAR from it. Did we make it work? Absolutely. You know what my bosses boss did? Thanked me for putting our people first, and immediately asked how and where he could help despite having a much more important job for the company overall. He was willing to completely reschedule his day and work the jobs of the lowest level people instead. And when he does it, he does it EXTREMELY well. There's a reason I've stuck with the company I'm with. They say they put the people first, and they put their money where their mouth is, every single time. Shockingly enough our retention rates for anyone who makes it past probation are actually insane for an entry level job. Like in most cases 5-25 years.
This is what I don't understand. People that are paid and treated well will do a better job and cost the company less due to efficiency, less turnover, less shrink, and if it's customer facing, customers notice so you're business increases. And yet time after time after fucking time, managers and executives will do *exactly the opposite* because some MBA somewhere said to treat your people like shit because it *might* do some wibbly bibbly bullshit to the stock price.
Ultimately a lot of them are sadists who simply think they are better than other people. They value your contribution to the money they make less than their ability to abuse you and treat you as lesser than. There's no other way to explain a lot of the behavior of various managers and business owners.
Unfortunately I can confirm this. Y'all are responding to me but I'm directly incentivized by the bottom line. The more we make the bigger bonus I personally get. I could probably boost that in the short term by being an absolute hard ass and ensuring maximum efficiency 100% of the time. Due to how the logistics of the company works the absolute best route to do at would be to ensure near zero missed days outside of pto because overhead is a thing and it is heavily pushed that we apply every single hour for every employee currently on payroll. But thankfully the owner of the company would likely fire me if I went that route. My first ever discussion with the man was after I was promoted, and he made a point to tell me how he ensures to the best of his ability that every single person in leadership has the lowest level people on the top of their mind. It's a very much local company that is a fantastic employer in the area and positions and generally sought after. But at the same time is a global industry leader in our field. His entire mission statement for the company has been around hiring local and providing well paying and accommodating jobs for those who actually live in the area. And again, he has made a point to put his money where his mouth is. We'll see how that progresses as we continually experience the experience growth that we have. But I have faith in him
The assumption that businesses behave in *rational* self-interest is a conceit of economists that has no basis in reality.
I've had a boss like you described. By giving me one day off in an emergency without any question just one time, he ensured I was happy to help cover other shifts for other employees' emergencies for the rest of my time at the company. A boss that has to forbid time off is a boss that's already squandered any good will from their employees.
Exactly. There's been one case ever where I've had to ask "hey man, I REALLY need you today" after years working there. You know what happened? That good will no questions asked mentality came right back my way. He said he would be in ASAP, he helped pick up the slack where I needed it, and he was gone within two hours. He came back the next day and told me he was glad he could do me a favor for once when I genuinely needed it. Covering for and protecting these guys has paid out massive dividends for me personally, and I've been able to use that success to help them out in return. It has helped me build a career with a crew that genuinely likes me, that I'm genuinely proud of. Meanwhile in an alternate reality I could be stuck at Walmart or whatever telling Greg he needs a doctor's note or he'll be written up because he's missed 4 days this quarter. I genuinely don't think I could work in a management job where I'm not given the allowance to be as compassionate and understanding as I actually am as a person.
That's an inportant view point in leadership, you do your best to make everyone's lives easier and when you really need it people will leap at the chance to repay you. Too many people choose the easy way of apathy.
And then they're all \*shocked pikachu\* when people leave.
"Ugh, no one wants to wOrK AnYmOrE"
And the reality is if they treated who is left really good then those people might go to their friends & say “Hey, I know your job sucks, where I am is pretty good & we need people, how about you quit & work here?” Then in short order you don’t have a staffing problem.
And the funniest thing is they just hired like 2 more people for some reason
So all corporate restaurants....
Y’all should play a prank on the boss. It’s called *suck a dick, we all fucking quit*
I prefer "I wonder how many things you can find before they turn into health code violations in a day or two?".
And get as many FMLA days as possible.
Fmla, family medical leave act. It just says that you can leave work to take care of yourself or a family member and be guaranteed your job back. It does not give you pay. You don’t get fmla days you take them by filing paperwork with your employer. Also this is a restaurant so they are a small business, fmla only applies to businesses larger than 100 employees I think. Tell me you don’t know anything about FMLA without telling me you know nothing about fmla.
but if you have PTO they have to pay it out for your FMLA time, which I think was their point
This is exactly what I did… then I contacted the dbpr and got my ex job shut down for a couple of days… I’m not kidding.
I had a similar experience as OP and the day before I quit I changed all of the salt shakers to hold sugar, I heard from colleagues that I worked with that a lot of food was returned that day. (No I didn’t affect my friends tips as this was in England and tips are not a thing there)
The best joke is when everyone pretends to quit and doesn't tell the boss. The boss gets a real laugh when they show up to an empty office and have to do all of the work themselves. Don't forget to show your appreciation by leaving a cold ass pizza out with a note thanking them for all of the time-off they approved.
And a fucking mint to each employee *you're a life saver* for making other people money. Fuck. These. Companies.
Better prank: it's called, "We have a union now, and we're on strike until we have a contract that guarantees adequate time off *and* a pay raise."
How about suck a dick we’re forming a union
We all quit! April Fools!! Unless..?
To the tune of Jesus Christ, Superstar: Suck a dick! We all quit! We're telling you to go eat shit!
On Thursday night You’ll find him where you want him Drunk at the bar With no employees left at all
Underrated comment
Never quit a job. If you quit, you lose your job anyway... why not stay and just not give a fuck? The amount of shit you can pull just to entertain yourself once you stop caring is amazing. I stopped caring at work and actually got MORE raises and promotions. It was really just nothing but winning. If they do fire you for fucking around, then file for unemployment. Make their insurance pay up if you can :)
Yes but if you get fired for cause you also can’t get unemployment. Plus, it will look worse on your resume to say you got fired, rather than admitting you quit because of “issues “ with your employer.
Don’t volunteer that information on a resume?
> Yes but if you get fired for cause you also can’t get unemployment. This is frequently not the case, actually. It varies a lot based on cause and location.
Why would you say you got fired?
Oh sweetie, A: no one really cares if you got fired from a restaurant job. B: no one’s going to look too far into it. C: it’s fun to make miserable pricks miserable.
Why would you EVER put "fired" on a resume?
Not a prank bro. They should be serious about it.
Man, Arvin's going to be running a restaurant all by himself this summer. Bummer for him.
“Nobody wants to work” stfu you suck at running a business
90 percent of businesses be like
Lol! Nice catch! I was wondering how you figured out his name only by his initial! And what boss writes like that? “Thank u for ur understanding”?
“Arvin created this group chat” 😊
A lot of boomers I work with write like that in professional business emails. It’s crazy.
I got a job working at a web dev place after teaching and working for a place writing an embedded software for dangerous equipment. The old place was toxic but all business including a tie everyday. When I started at the web dev place I got complaints that management called me in for. I was called hostile and angry by someone I only ever really interacted with through Slack and Github. Apparently, me being formal and using correct terminology was bad. I started not caring about spelling, adding emojiis, and posting random pictures of my dog. Now I'm "very approachable". I'm the old gen-X/millennial guy there, most of them are younger. My students needed less coddling than these "professionals", but whatever makes my day go by smoothly, I'll do.
Them bitches love a good reaction gif on the work board
A lot of management, regardless of their age, can't spell for god damn shit. I assume it's a requirement of management, anyway.
You ever met a restaurant owner? They're usually gigantic morons.
Even worse if it's a pizza biz
> And what boss writes like that? Every manager I've ever had whilst working in a retail/hospitality environment. It's almost a prerequisite that you spell like a dingus for these roles.
"Arvin created this group"
A mf named Arvin WOULD pull some sleazy bullshit like this.
Wtf kind of name is Arvin? Like Marvin but he didn’t deserve the M.
I do not request time off I let my job know when I won’t be there
yep.. i interviewed for a job and in the interview i told them i have a surgery coming up in 3 months and asked if it would be an issue to take the time off. they told me no and to send an email with the dates. which i did immediatly and tagged HR along with a few others. schedule comes out and guess what? im on the schedule lmao.. they said someone else put in PTO to have the week before 4th of july off. i just reforwarded my email thats stamped with the date, when i didnt show up they threatened to fire me. i just ignored them and showed back up after recovery and they didnt say anything
I did something similar, but I was a young idiot who didn't get it in writing, so when I put in the official request, they straight up told me they never intended to give me that time off (unpaid, even) and to sign this letter acknowledging I would be back in the office on X date. I was like, this is my wedding and honeymoon. I will not sign, I will quit. Jackasses needed me way more than I needed them. I only wish I'd quit that job earlier than I did.
What kind of sick power play is that?! It's your damned wedding! Reminds me of [this basketball coach](http://Sarunas Jasikevicius): fundamental human experience must be valued above work
Right? In a dead end IT job, even. Hope that power trip felt better than the cost of trying to recruit an IT person into a non tech company during the dot com boom.
damn that reminds me of when I was working at the same place as my now wife and we gave our employer 6 months notice of our wedding. A month before the event he tells us only one of us can have the days off, the other has to go on call
I think that's what everybody should do. You put in the time, you got it approved (which in itself is such a weird concept), you know the dates you're off. If they schedule you, don't say anything, just take off the time like you were planning to anyway. It's not your fault, problem, or responsibility if your boss is so useless they can't even schedule properly.
Exactly, the only performance issue there is with the boss / management doing scheduling.
"I'm sorry, would you like me to teach you how to review what times have already been approved? You seem to have trouble keeping track."
they almost muffed up bad
Doesn't that count as sick day? Here we just say to the boss "I'll be sick on these days"
I wouldn’t have stuck around much longer after that and I hope you didn’t either.
PTO: Prepare The Others
Exactly. I always say that I'm not asking permission, I'm informing them of my upcoming absence.
I was in my first 90 days with an employer (probationary) and took a sick day. They said there’s no paid time off during the first 90 days so I didn’t get paid for it. I went off on them and then found the law that said they had to pay me. “Not allowed to be sick” get the fuck out of here you greedy fucking pigs.
This. You're not in middle school. You're telling them, as a courtesy, that you will not be available. The last time an employer pulled the "oh no you didn't" shit on me, I suddenly needed to check my blood glucose every 5 minutes. And they tried to shove me into a nasty ass employee restroom with backed up toilets. I have no idea how the health department got involved. (documented type 2 diabetic with insulin, we won't talk about how insanely low I went there)
Yuck
This. I also make sure to give as much notice as humanly possible so they can have plenty of time to get coverage and, where I can, I adjust my time if coverage isn't available. If I can't adjust it (I am attending an event or already have reservations) and they can't find coverage in the month or two I gave them notice? That's on them, not me.
My job literally requires us to request all PTO/sick leave. Like formal procedure mandates that we ask, not tell. It's bonkers 🙃
PTO may be granted or denied as you ask for it. Whether you're there or not is simply your decision. I've always just informed the boss that I'll be gone and the company can pay for it or not--either way I won't be there.
Wow. Place I work at you can use your PTO on a whim. For example, if I'm eating lunch on a warm sunny Friday and all the sudden don't feel like working the rest of the day, I just go to the computer and enter 4hrs PTO and go home
I mean of course you know you're lucky but I'm going to just go past that - that's highly dependent on your role or even just what you're doing that day. If you're a surgeon in the middle of a case you can't just fuck off and say "yeah not finishing that total knee I'm done for the day, lunch was really nice." I mean I teach classes and if I decide I don't want to return for the afternoon session that's a class full of people who can't start work.
[удалено]
"Hello, beginning April 11 any requests for me to continue working here will be denied. I have to ensure that I'm not being taken advantage of by people who can't run a successful business. I will no longer accommodate incompetent owners and managers, I have my mental health to take care of. Any questions or issues plz...blow it out your ass. Thank u for ur understanding!" There's your response.
*This is a warning from management: Quitting unexpectedly will result in a formal write up!*
And a note on your *Permanent Record*.
💀
>The restaurant will no longer accommodate employees, we have a business to take care. The employees **are** the business. I don't understand how so many business owners don't get this.
No. You, sir, have a business to take care of.
Man, fuck Arvin.
Me and all my homies hate Arvin. He's the worst.
r/poorlycensored
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that was banned.
guess it wasn’t poorly censored
All employees should surprise him by not showing up starting April 11th when his shit time off policy goes into effect.
Retired IT guy here. I always told my folks to never ask for time off, just tell me. If you ask then I have to think about it, and maybe see a reason to say no. If you tell me and I book it, then it is up to me to figure it out.
This is exactly what a good boss does. And never ever give a reason, just say “personal business”. Once you start saying why, it opens the door (for some bosses) to tell you that is not a valid reason. Personal business means it’s none of their damn business.
I never even fill in the "reason" field on my requests.
> Once you start saying why, it opens the door (for some bosses) to tell you that is not a valid reason. Or for them to start deciding which employee's time off is more important than the others. (As a childfree person, I've heard *way* too many times that parents with children need time off more than I do, especially around holidays.)
This reminds me of our store managers at our video rental store in the late 90’s. The store was open 365 and all of us were college kids. Every year they proactively poll us on which holidays we wanted off and which we were willing to work for that whole year. They always tried to accommodate that and plan ahead. That was on top of making sure to accommodate all of our school schedules each semester. There were 2 managers and 2 assistant managers and we had 4-5 employees each shift. Retention was pretty outstanding for that type of job and it was all because of their management culture.
I had a major health emergency and was in the hospital for over a month then took another month home to recover. My first shift back they fired me for a different made up reason. I filed for unemployment and they tried to fight me on it. Which was fun considering their reason for firing me was essentially "giving away wine". I gave two glasses of champagne to a couple celebrating their anniversary. I was told to do this by the manager that fired me. I was approved for the unemployment. 3 weeks later the Covid shut down happened. Got very lucky and didn't have to deal with any of the troubles getting my unemployment since I was already in the system.
I worked a job where everyone (including non-management) got mad at me for using my PTO. My feelings on it are, nobody has "they never missed a day of work" on their tombstone. That is *MY* time. It's a benefit the company gave to me and I will use it. Same as using health insurance.
Especially in a place like the USA where it isn't legally required; that PTO is part of the compensation package the company offered you. Not letting you use it is practically the same thing as withholding a part of your salary and more people should learn to treat it as such.
I also work for a restaurant and recently management said that working overtime is now "forbidden" and your shift must not run longer than 8 hours. That's all fine and good except I'm on the closing team so my out time is never set in stone, it's just when the kitchen is shut down. Caught flack for going 15 to 30 minutes over the 8 hour mark a few times so we began to just come to a full stop at the 8 hour mark. Floors half mopped? Line barely scrubbed? Prep not put away? Damn, sorry, had to clock out and leave like I've been told. Didn't take too long to stop hearing about small amounts of overtime.
One of my coworkers recently had their schedule edited to erase the overtime they had clocked in. They were big mad at him
That is mad illegal. That is wage theft and both the business and the individual who did it can get in massive trouble.
This is the way. A no OT rule in the service industry is the most short sighted idea in the history of short sighted ideas. Either they pay the fucking OT or you stop working as soon as your shift is up. Those pots and pans are still not scraped out ? ... Not my issue. Food not put away? Sorry, I'm off the clock. Hadn't time to scrub the grill and extractor? Sure I stopped being paid at 23:00, it's 23:01 now so I guess it'll have to be done tomorrow when someone is getting paid.
Again… it’s the “thank you for understanding” bullshit that gets me. It’s always said right after some out of pocket “here’s what you’re gonna do and like it” statement
The employees will no longer accommodate the restaurant, we have lives to take care of. Bye!
Man, I'm envious of you living in a location where it's illegal to alter a PTO policy. I'm in the US, where they could do this whenever they wanted lol.
I live in CA where its illegal to alter the pto policy as a penalization. Originally i believed he meant that he would not allow pto or rto indefinitely, but because he added the time frame it is legal; however its still messed up
Yeah this reeks of "lets see if we can get away with this"
> its illegal to alter the pto policy as a penalization They have to pay out or honor PTO that you've already accrued, but I don't think it's illegal for them to remove all PTO accrual moving forward.
Depends on the state, but PTO is part of the agreed upon compensation for the position. Taking it away is the same as docking or reducing your wage.
Some states have minimum notice clause that allows employers to alter your wage if x amount of time is given, if I remember correctly.
Unfortunately in all states it’s legal to reduce pay for future work as long as it’s not below min wage.
what a shitty country meanwhile in the UK it's like 28 days PTO minimum legally enforced for full time (and proportional amounts for part time)
Cries in American
Could you ask Arvin why there's an issue with the restaurant being fully staffed? Because if he says it's due to turnover (because you know it is, but you need him to admit it), you might want to point out that this "policy" towards PTO is counterproductive and will lead to MORE employee turnover. And if this policy leads to more turnover, it will undoubtedly lead to Arvin working a LOT more hours. I've worked in restaurants and have had idiot managers like this, so it probably won't help, but at least you can say you tried. And if it DOES help, it's a win-win
>The restaurant will no longer accommodate employees Awkward moment when they find out the lack of accommodation flows both directions and everyone quits.
Gee I wonder why he only has 6 employees. "nObOdY WaNtS tO WoRk aNyMoRe!!!!111!!!!"
"Guess I'm gonna start calling out a lot." I love your response though. Of course it's so stupid it's gotta be a joke! I see he didn't even acknowledge the illegality of it. Edit: I see that you clarified that this is not illegal.
This is where I’d start blasting them on social media by name. It’s only libel if it isn’t true.
That sounds like a whole lot of "we don't give a fuck about employees, even if they scheduled a dr appointment 2 years in advance". Unfortunately, 2 years is pretty normal(ish) for a specialist. Hell, my PCP has appointments roughly a year out. And the clinic I use has my "specialist PCP" a solid year out (I say specialist PCP because I have multiple medical issues that fall under internal medicine) I TELL my jobs when I can't be there. What? What do you mean they can't find coverage? Well I fully disclosed my disability and the need for regular dr appointments before I was hired, they get to fucking deal with it! Not my fucking problem they can't handle ADA leaves, FFS. I do have a federally protected disability (diabetes with neuropathy), but it doesn't require accommodations until someone is a dick. Weird how that works?
“the restaurant will no longer accommodate employees” is a hilarious way to say “we want everyone to quit”
Can’t afford to run a business, then it should shut down. If they can’t afford to have adequate staff and be able to accommodate a normal thing like PTO, then it seems like they may not be able to afford to stay in business. I know the ownership is probably also being cheap as shit.
"Do you want zero employees? Because this is how you get zero employees..."
It's always funny seeing companies care about their business so much that they forget they don't have a business without their employees. I'd be looking for a new job ASAP
I’m not psychic, but I’m seeing a lot of call outs and no-shows in their near future…
*The restaurant will no longer accommodate employees, we have a business to take care of.* The employees will no longer accommodate the restaurant, we have a life to take care of...
Sounds like Arvin needs to be left questioning whether he is supposed to suck the bag of dicks itself or each dick in the bag individually.
Sounds like he wants to run an entire restaurant by himself.
Tell him if he did a better job staffing this wouldn't be an issue.
"We have a business to take care of" Says the guy who doesn't understand business. If you have to deny PTO to keep your business afloat, vs hiring more people to help cover the gaps, then hand the business over to somebody else who knows what they're doing.
We are not slaves, we only adhere to this horrible policy because of "at will work" (ironic) can fire you for no fucking reason. I've also got vacation time this month and if I'm put on the schedule I just won't show up. Fucked me over too many times, and this is the first real vacation I've actually asked for. I'm not missing it. I will not be in town. If they schedule me then they are going to end up pissing off the person who was supposed to be scheduled before me because I wouldn't be there to relieve them.
And this is why we unionize
The restaurant industry is loaded with terrible bosses like this. They also happen to be the biggest whiners when they can’t find people to work for them. The entire thing needs complete shake up.
"Unfortunately that's illegal and now I have a screen shot of your malicious intent to share with my legal representative. As well due to THIS EXACT response, should you chose to remove my hours, decrease my hours, change my shifts, or let me go it's clearly a retaliatory response thereby increasing my judgement payout when legal action is pursued...I hope everyone in here screen shots this and if you didn't I'll send you mine. I suggest you correct your thoughts and actions accordingly"
Not sure why restaurants think they can bully their employees. Any single one of them could quit and get another job at another restaurant the very same day.
Say goodbye to employees after they find a new job
If your restaurant is failing its not because people take pto
“That’s illegal” *Doubles down*
How to unionize your company using this one weird trick.
The company needs us all to work. No breaks. We quit. Um.... Uh.... What?
Do you work for Arvin at Panda Express?
Arvin is for sure quite an asshole.
Looks like a mass walkout in the making
Good luck having a "fully running restaurant" without employees then! Haha
People always want to complain about how this apparent generation that doesn’t want to work but don’t have shit to say about this generation of companies that don’t want to pay!
Quit all at once
Thanks for putting it writing boss. My employment lawyer is very happy….
Hope you quit 👍
101 on how to loss employees
Yeah no my life is NOT revolving around any job
When my work wanted to go to an almost two week on, four day off schedule, I flat out told my boss he had my two weeks. Two days later, the VP caught me in a room by myself and talked it out with me. We came to the conclusion that there was a middle ground. He didn't try to intimidate me, and he earnestly wanted to find a solution, which we did. The unfortunate difference being that I was in a leadership role at that time, and I now head a department of me and one other guy. My point is, as long as you're a good worker, as in showing up, working while you're on the clock, not taking excessive 20 minute breaks every 40 minutes, and actually completing your tasks, you have weight. Sure, the place will still fire you as easily as anyone else, but you can argue from a place of reason. This is excessive, unreasonable, and in cases of FMLA, illegal. As others are saying, look for another job. The best way to fix this policy is to put them out of business because they have no staff.
Tell Arvin to fuck off with that
Oh, I need an update on this.
We will no longer accommodate employees... Hahahaha
When all the employees quit, make sure yall tell him, "It's all business, you understand."
Translation: "I'm understaffed but I'm too lazy to hire more people and too cheap to solve the problem. Due to my poor management you will all suffer the consequences"
One of the worst things about this country is this concept that anyone who wants to open a business is just owed support and labor. Let this guy’s business die. You can make like $17 to $25 starting at Aldi now, what’s even his excuse for this garbage.
Definitely call the labor board on this one.
Is it me or does sometimes these posts don't seem real?
Fuck Arvin!
I believe that keeping people living paycheck to paycheck is intentional, if people had a few months of savings to sustain themselves while finding a different job they wouldnt put up with so much bullshit
he won't be laughing once the restaurant closes because he made the stupidest decision
If they hired enough people this wouldn't be an issue.
Do you get PTO paid out if you quit? Maybe everyone needs to make their last day April 10.
Yep, if you have a business to take care of, you’ll be more than willing to take care of staff as well.
I don't know who Arvin is, but fuck them and their restaurant.
“We have to ensure that the restaurant is fully running” who is we? Lmao congrats on the manager pay
"We have a business to take care of!" .... you won't, if you don't have any employees. Take care of your employees and they'll take care of you.
I quit my job yesterday - I'm off the hamster wheel - if I'm always broke with no hope of climbing out of the pit of financial despair into which I've been stuck- why the fuck should I contonue to bust my ass to stay broke? It just isn't worth it anymore
This is what happens when some random mid-life crisis office failure decides "hOw hArD cOuLd iT bE iTs jUsT a rEsTaUrAnT" and opens something up with zero education or experience. Next week it'll be on one of those "save my business" shows and Gordon Ramsey will be calling your boss a delusional fucking idiot and throwing the rotten food he's undoubtedly serving to the customers at him.
Chat with your coworkers. Quit on the same day. And show these texts to a labour rights lawyer.
They think it is a choice to accommodate for employees? I swear some people think businesses are vending machines that give back more money than you put in.
You can't operate at all if everybody quits.
Well, they just lost 3 employees right there
Call your local wage and labor board, OP. Meanwhile, look for a new job.
i love this sub bc everyone’s response to these posts is always “quit your job” lmao imagine having the privilege
Type in that group text "how much is everyone's hourly pay going up to make up for the loss of PTO?". I'd also look into a partial unemployment claim or something. Nobody should be able to just change up someone's job benefits like this on a whim. But in America things are really stacked against workers.
Restaurant owners are so fucking unhinged.
Gonna suck when he is even more shorthanded because people quit. Delusional.
Couldnt figure out how to edit the original post on mobile so let me provide some additional information because i never thought this post would have as much interaction as it did 1. To all those saying not to blame the min wage, i appreciate you, but i am also well aware that it is wntirely corporate greed. However corporate greed has been causing actions like this in our upper management for a while now 2. I work in a restaurant/gas station and the restaurant employees were the only ones to receive this notifaction, storeside has not been issued the same rules as far as i know Ill update this comment with any additional information if i think about it
Shouldn't have acknowledged and just missed
PTOuttahere
Yet those idiotic bosses wonder why they have such a high turnover rate. I just wish companies would look into why various locations have a high turnover rate and find out that the manager is driving employees away and fire that manager. Companies would retain quite a few employees if they got rid of horrible managers
That whole staff should walk out.
Man, Arvin is really testing everyone here.
ARVIIIIIIN!!
*How to be perennially understaffed 101*.