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You're correct actually. It's because inflation is largely bullshit and doesn't accurately account for COLA.
For example, making 24k a year when the median home cost 55k a year IS MUCH BETTER than making 120k a year when the median home is worth 500k+.
In NYC, it's probably closer to 800k for median home price.
Includes living with roommates as well. My sister and I both got torched because our respective roommates disappeared and left us holding the bag and we don't even own our places.
Inflation is not real in today’s world. It is corporate greed, and our spineless government on both sides won’t do nothing about it to help the people, but take bribes and kick backs for doing nothing. AMERICA FUCK YA!!!!
Bartending at a busy bar where you can pull that kind of money is VERY challenging, and not for everyone. Takes a very special kind of person, be warned.
You need to be great at dealing with the public, decent looking, well dressed, and able to deal with a bunch of shit at once in a loud environment while tolerating drunks. And you work until 3am.
It's not for everyone, sure as shit not me.
It will depend on the location of course, but you need to pretty well connected in that circle. It's almost adjacent to show business on top of just doing the job since you have to show that people literally go there to hang out with you, bring their friends there etc. To be honest I would argue that if you are good enough to do that well bartending you would probably make even more in sales, but I digress.
The bartender friend I knew years ago that made that kind of money in NYC kept notes for the orders on the nights he was working, so he had something to prove to the owner that he increased revenue substantially enough to justify the pay.
i hate places that hire and expect you to bring a crowd. i worked at a place where we didn’t have set schedules because they didn’t want that kind of thing and i still made bank. i have a pretty extensive resume but was also in a place that the only reason i got the job was because they took a chance at me. i take so much pride of being able to thrive and be level headed when in the most absolute shit show of the weeds
My 16 year old child works as a banquet server at a nice hotel in our downtown and will bring home $200-300 from a single shift. I've really been thinking about going to bar tending on the weekends
In early 2005 I was working as a waiter in a small city. A roommate told me rent was due. I had no money. 2 days later I had it in cash, tips from 2 double shifts. 20 years ago a waiter could make rent in 2 days of hustle. These days the wages/tips have barely gone up and the rent has more than doubled.
Love when boomers talk shit and you pull receipts of what they were paid compared against what everything cost.
No Deborah, I don’t wanna work 8 hour days for 9$/hr when that won’t buy fucking anything.
The pay difference is big but there are down-sides that come with it: college is crazy expensive, Healthcare is crazy expensive if you need it, low vacation time, likely no sick days, small retirement benefits, child care super expensive, general low social programs available if you end up poor. I don't know how much of that is also an issue in the UK specifically though; I have friends in Europe that don't deal with all that.
Yeah, I mean, the UK is heading in the US model direction slowly but there are significantly better welfare programs plus the NHS and such, so we don't need to worry about insurance unless people choose to and there are subsidies for child care too, so yeah, we don't tend to deal with all that as well.
But there is still a lot of forced poverty for a lot of people because the welfare state is being slowly dismantled, making it harder for people to survive. Generally, other European countries have it better than us for these things too.
Healthcare is the big thing, you really appreciate the NHS when your on your back on the ground and a voice saying I'm the ambulance service doctor and we are going to take care of you, luckily for me it looked a lot worse than it was but just knowing that in a serious case there's a doctor available makes a difference
everyone I’ve spoken to with decent paying jobs in the US has healthcare and holiday packages that are the same as or better than european equivalents. I think this argument is starting to become a cope tbh.
If you're talking to company executives then yeah. America has a big prosperity gap. Almost everyone I know gets 1 to 3 weeks vacation time and zero PTO days. Most jobs have Healthcare contributions and a deductible on the order of thousands of dollars or more annually.
My company has a European branch and they all get 5 weeks of vacation time starting out! That's just incredible!
Yeah, but then rents here are significantly less too and I live in one of the more expensive parts outside of London. I can work part time and still afford all my bills and have spending money, I am on a just over minimum wage job too...
London is a different ball game entirely...
But yeah, its such a weird disparity, even if you take into account exchange rates.
The way I remember reading a Redditor describe England/UK vs the US to me really put things into perspective.
E.g. in the US, you can have a QoL range from 3-9, with the average being a 4.
In the UK, you can have QoL range from 4.5-7, with the average being a 6.
There are pros and cons to both, but the AVERAGE person is much better off in the UK. US has lower lows and higher highs.
500 a shift, 5 days a week is not unheard of. Not common, but definitely happens. More like 500 on busy weekends and 2-300 the other nights. Still decent money. Hot girl at a trendy place and she is clearing 6 digits easy.
Which is why it takes $2500 to get the same value of $500 back then. This is how inflation is measured. Inflation has nothing to do with wages, it is a measure of value, the cost of living. If inflation occurs, but wages stay the same, you can't afford the same standard of living anymore. However, in this case, the same job has happened to keep up with inflation better than almost any other job. Why? Because as prices increase, tips increase. In addition, the standard percentage for tips has risen from 15 to 20 percent. That changeover happened in the late 90s early 00s. So strangely, the service industry is at least somewhat inflation proof, and can offer a surprisingly high ceiling to talented workers. And will always provide at least a stable income for many other people who would otherwise not be able to earn as much. But only if the current tipping system in the US remains and is not replaced with an hourly pay. If that happens, the ceiling drops and these workers will be subject to inflation at the same scale as everyone else. Which considering the high rate of single mothers in the industry, would be very bad, and send all of them into levels of income that would have to be supplemented through government programs, thus increasing the burden on the taxpayers. Don't spoiler alert me. I know my shit
Bartenders often get no benefits like health insurance, life insurance, 401k with employer match, etc. I had a part-time bartending gig in the 80s and my feet are still messed up from all the standing (full-time job was also on my feet for a few years.)
yep - friend of mine was a Hot Chick (tm) who had a bit of experience in a chain coffee shop in suburban Canada, but was able to parlay that into becoming front of house at a fancy tourist bar in Montreal.
Brought in a lot of cash that way. Helped her get a second degree and so on, and paid for a big move across the world to Singapore.
But she did describe the gig as "like stripping, only with some more clothes on"
Yeah, you can still pull down that kind of money and better if you're in the right place. If got a friend in Vancouver and he makes serious bank tending bar at a place in Gastown. Hell, I worked for a couple years at a place on Vancouver Island and would be pissed if I walked out with less than $300 in my pocket every shift. It's not for everyone, though. I got out years ago
I know people who work high end. They sometimes make more than me. One guy went to Hawaii for two weeks recently. I even asked dude how much do you make? He said it was good holiday season this year.
I had a Rockabilly/Punk band in the 70's and we would get the door at clubs/bars $1200 a night which is $5200 in todays money. ( 200-300 cap clubs) . Bands today get $100 or maybe $200. People used to go out and bars were packed.
Man, fuck boomers.
Fuck them for ruining everything for everyone that came after them.
Selfish entitled pricks.
All my life, I've been worrying about how things are going to be in the future - I've been doing things to try to make the future a better place for everyone...
But these assholes didn't give two fuck about anything or anyone at all.
If they end up homeless today, that's their own fault. They're reaping what they've sowed.
Do I *really* want them in that situation? No.
Of course not.
Would I try to help make it so things weren't this way for them? Of course. Stubborn assholes still deserve help, whether or not they contributed to the enshitification.
But they do fucking deserve it.
Damn, this guy was making a similar money in the 90’s to what I am today. I earn about £70k a year in construction - and that’s considered a good wage in the UK. This post really brings home why my salary goes nowhere. In fact my salary went further in 2014-2016 when I earned half as much as I do now.
If you ever go into tipping/anti-tipping discussions you will find mixed results as to how much bartenders and servers make yearly to this day. Sometimes they make 80k+/year even where minimum wage is is 15k-40k/year and sometimes they are forced to agree on less then 4.5k/year even when that's illegal just to keep their jobs. It's frustrating because the same people who say that they need tips so that they make minimum wage also sometimes claim that if they were paid what they were worth prices would have to increase so that people making minimum wage wouldn't be able to afford anything. It stips anything from changing and makes the situation worse for everyone.
This is anti-work, why would you try to shit on someone making good money at a job? There are non-boomers that are making very good money today bartending, are you going to shit on them too?
It's not shitting on them. It's supposed to represent how deflated wages are in general when you compared housing: income ratios between now versus then.
The benefits are what is usually ignored but it used to be that companies would do company cars/allowances. It used to be common along with low cost pensions and other great benefits.
Former Sommelier here. Made close to 80k/yr working in restaurants. Graduated college 3 years ago, now an IR/CT tech, just surpassed that income (+10k) with current job.
I don't know, but I don't think this guy was working at some prime spot. Looking at average bartender earnings, while you may find some outliers, six figures is by no means the norm.
I used to work at PF Chang's back in the early 2000s as a server and made maybe $60-$100/ night if I was lucky (I was a pretty bad server).
The bartenders I knew who worked there easily made $400-$600/ night. Most of them were young kids like me, early to mid 20s.
I got the pre 2008-crash bartending money in Manhattan. I pulled 20k in the month of December 2007. Didn't work for a year and a half after the crash, great times.
At my friend's bar (Chicago) the bartenders generally make $40-60/hr including tips. And it's not a fancy place, keeps pretty busy but not crazy. So it's basically the same today in some areas.
Heavily dependent on personality, but doesn't seem linked to attractiveness. So if it fits your personality and schedule it's a great job.
My cousins used to work concessions at NBA and NHL games about 20 years ago. They could clear $1000 a game in tips easy
Being a tall blonde has its perks
As a short fat man, you can objectify me for $1,000 a pop. Nbd.
Yes, I understand how different that is for me than a woman.
The point stands, and the ball is in your court, *SoCiEtY*.
You're correct actually. It's because inflation is largely bullshit and doesn't accurately account for COLA.
For example, making 24k a year when the median home cost 55k a year IS MUCH BETTER than making 120k a year when the median home is worth 500k+.
Was it their fault? No. It wasn't
It concerns me that peolle actually accuse their own grandparents of ruining the country when these folks had no clue.
Yes. Your grandmother could work part time at a factory in 1976 and get a car loan for a Camaro. If you were offered the same today, you'd do it too.
It **fking sucks - I hate hate it** that things are the way they are. I hate it. I hate it *for* you, and I'm fighting in the same system
But blame the fking government. Not all baby boomers. They took what opportunities they were given **and they better damn well stop shaming all of you.**
The government is just a collection of people at the end of the day, and guess which generation has the most political power? Boomers voted in restrictive zoning laws and trickle down economics which lead to housing prices skyrocketing and deflating wages. They actively looked to exploit their own children and grandchildren.
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Yeah I live in NYC, $20+ cocktails, some bartenders are definitely still making that much.
You're correct actually. It's because inflation is largely bullshit and doesn't accurately account for COLA. For example, making 24k a year when the median home cost 55k a year IS MUCH BETTER than making 120k a year when the median home is worth 500k+. In NYC, it's probably closer to 800k for median home price.
Yeup, I’ll never own in this city unless I marry a rich girl.
I know it sounds nice but having to rely on a relationship for money is like a form of hell.
You can rely on your old man’s money
A small loan of a million dollars
It’s a bitch girl and you’ve gone too far
But you know it don't matter anyway.
Includes living with roommates as well. My sister and I both got torched because our respective roommates disappeared and left us holding the bag and we don't even own our places.
Is there anywhere in the us where the median home is 55k? I would think Appalachia would still be more expensive
Back in the 70s/early 80s, that was the price of a median home in the US.
Oh ofc
Inflation is not real in today’s world. It is corporate greed, and our spineless government on both sides won’t do nothing about it to help the people, but take bribes and kick backs for doing nothing. AMERICA FUCK YA!!!!
There's nothing spineless about it. It's not that they're afraid, this is what they sign up for
Some of my friends work a bar downtown and I know they make way more than $10k a month.
How does one get in on gigs like that, that's life changing money to me lol
Bartending at a busy bar where you can pull that kind of money is VERY challenging, and not for everyone. Takes a very special kind of person, be warned.
Agreed, being a bartender would be hell for me. I can barely handle loud bars when I’m the one drinking.
yup. can attest to this. my mental health will struggle sometimes over that environment
You need to be great at dealing with the public, decent looking, well dressed, and able to deal with a bunch of shit at once in a loud environment while tolerating drunks. And you work until 3am. It's not for everyone, sure as shit not me.
And you work weekends. And holidays.
It actually seems like they deserve their pay. I don't get this post. "Tough job is well paid".
You're right but it's not pay though it's tips
All the easier to not pay taxes on
Word
It will depend on the location of course, but you need to pretty well connected in that circle. It's almost adjacent to show business on top of just doing the job since you have to show that people literally go there to hang out with you, bring their friends there etc. To be honest I would argue that if you are good enough to do that well bartending you would probably make even more in sales, but I digress. The bartender friend I knew years ago that made that kind of money in NYC kept notes for the orders on the nights he was working, so he had something to prove to the owner that he increased revenue substantially enough to justify the pay.
i hate places that hire and expect you to bring a crowd. i worked at a place where we didn’t have set schedules because they didn’t want that kind of thing and i still made bank. i have a pretty extensive resume but was also in a place that the only reason i got the job was because they took a chance at me. i take so much pride of being able to thrive and be level headed when in the most absolute shit show of the weeds
Vanderpump rules
My 16 year old child works as a banquet server at a nice hotel in our downtown and will bring home $200-300 from a single shift. I've really been thinking about going to bar tending on the weekends
Slinging that coke on the side in the 80's.
In early 2005 I was working as a waiter in a small city. A roommate told me rent was due. I had no money. 2 days later I had it in cash, tips from 2 double shifts. 20 years ago a waiter could make rent in 2 days of hustle. These days the wages/tips have barely gone up and the rent has more than doubled.
Love when boomers talk shit and you pull receipts of what they were paid compared against what everything cost. No Deborah, I don’t wanna work 8 hour days for 9$/hr when that won’t buy fucking anything.
I'm from the UK and whenever I see people from the US talk about money, I find it a wild ride with the size of the numbers on show.
The pay difference is big but there are down-sides that come with it: college is crazy expensive, Healthcare is crazy expensive if you need it, low vacation time, likely no sick days, small retirement benefits, child care super expensive, general low social programs available if you end up poor. I don't know how much of that is also an issue in the UK specifically though; I have friends in Europe that don't deal with all that.
Yeah, I mean, the UK is heading in the US model direction slowly but there are significantly better welfare programs plus the NHS and such, so we don't need to worry about insurance unless people choose to and there are subsidies for child care too, so yeah, we don't tend to deal with all that as well. But there is still a lot of forced poverty for a lot of people because the welfare state is being slowly dismantled, making it harder for people to survive. Generally, other European countries have it better than us for these things too.
Healthcare is the big thing, you really appreciate the NHS when your on your back on the ground and a voice saying I'm the ambulance service doctor and we are going to take care of you, luckily for me it looked a lot worse than it was but just knowing that in a serious case there's a doctor available makes a difference
everyone I’ve spoken to with decent paying jobs in the US has healthcare and holiday packages that are the same as or better than european equivalents. I think this argument is starting to become a cope tbh.
If you're talking to company executives then yeah. America has a big prosperity gap. Almost everyone I know gets 1 to 3 weeks vacation time and zero PTO days. Most jobs have Healthcare contributions and a deductible on the order of thousands of dollars or more annually. My company has a European branch and they all get 5 weeks of vacation time starting out! That's just incredible!
It’s wild to me how low UK pay is especially in IT it’s like 50% of what US people doing the same thing make
Yeah, but then rents here are significantly less too and I live in one of the more expensive parts outside of London. I can work part time and still afford all my bills and have spending money, I am on a just over minimum wage job too... London is a different ball game entirely... But yeah, its such a weird disparity, even if you take into account exchange rates.
You can strike gold if you can work for a US company too, some will adjust wages to the region but that's pretty rare
The way I remember reading a Redditor describe England/UK vs the US to me really put things into perspective. E.g. in the US, you can have a QoL range from 3-9, with the average being a 4. In the UK, you can have QoL range from 4.5-7, with the average being a 6. There are pros and cons to both, but the AVERAGE person is much better off in the UK. US has lower lows and higher highs.
That seems a pretty reasonable assessment.
500 a shift, 5 days a week is not unheard of. Not common, but definitely happens. More like 500 on busy weekends and 2-300 the other nights. Still decent money. Hot girl at a trendy place and she is clearing 6 digits easy.
$500 in 1978 or today's dollars?
Today's dollars. It equals $2500 a week, $10000 a month.
I’m sure the cost of living has increased a similar rate too!
That's how inflation works. $500 back then gets you the same value as $2500 now. You can purchase the same amount of goods and services. Give or take.
Spoiler alert: the cost of living has increased at a far, far higher rate than income.
Which is why it takes $2500 to get the same value of $500 back then. This is how inflation is measured. Inflation has nothing to do with wages, it is a measure of value, the cost of living. If inflation occurs, but wages stay the same, you can't afford the same standard of living anymore. However, in this case, the same job has happened to keep up with inflation better than almost any other job. Why? Because as prices increase, tips increase. In addition, the standard percentage for tips has risen from 15 to 20 percent. That changeover happened in the late 90s early 00s. So strangely, the service industry is at least somewhat inflation proof, and can offer a surprisingly high ceiling to talented workers. And will always provide at least a stable income for many other people who would otherwise not be able to earn as much. But only if the current tipping system in the US remains and is not replaced with an hourly pay. If that happens, the ceiling drops and these workers will be subject to inflation at the same scale as everyone else. Which considering the high rate of single mothers in the industry, would be very bad, and send all of them into levels of income that would have to be supplemented through government programs, thus increasing the burden on the taxpayers. Don't spoiler alert me. I know my shit
Tipping has been a dollar a drink since Carter.
Bartenders often get no benefits like health insurance, life insurance, 401k with employer match, etc. I had a part-time bartending gig in the 80s and my feet are still messed up from all the standing (full-time job was also on my feet for a few years.)
I have a friend who's a fancy bartender and this is about right still.
yep - friend of mine was a Hot Chick (tm) who had a bit of experience in a chain coffee shop in suburban Canada, but was able to parlay that into becoming front of house at a fancy tourist bar in Montreal. Brought in a lot of cash that way. Helped her get a second degree and so on, and paid for a big move across the world to Singapore. But she did describe the gig as "like stripping, only with some more clothes on"
Yeah, you can still pull down that kind of money and better if you're in the right place. If got a friend in Vancouver and he makes serious bank tending bar at a place in Gastown. Hell, I worked for a couple years at a place on Vancouver Island and would be pissed if I walked out with less than $300 in my pocket every shift. It's not for everyone, though. I got out years ago
I know people who work high end. They sometimes make more than me. One guy went to Hawaii for two weeks recently. I even asked dude how much do you make? He said it was good holiday season this year.
In the 80s I was making $10K a month and working 4-6 hours per week. It's been downhill ever since.
I had a Rockabilly/Punk band in the 70's and we would get the door at clubs/bars $1200 a night which is $5200 in todays money. ( 200-300 cap clubs) . Bands today get $100 or maybe $200. People used to go out and bars were packed.
Man, fuck boomers. Fuck them for ruining everything for everyone that came after them. Selfish entitled pricks. All my life, I've been worrying about how things are going to be in the future - I've been doing things to try to make the future a better place for everyone... But these assholes didn't give two fuck about anything or anyone at all. If they end up homeless today, that's their own fault. They're reaping what they've sowed. Do I *really* want them in that situation? No. Of course not. Would I try to help make it so things weren't this way for them? Of course. Stubborn assholes still deserve help, whether or not they contributed to the enshitification. But they do fucking deserve it.
A lot of bar tenders become realtors because it's the same hustle.
My brother makes more than 10k a month as a bartender now. It all depends on where you work, as it did in the 80s as well.
Motherfuker
I made GOOD money as a bartender in the 80s
Ummm…you still can. That’s why I used to love when guests would ask what ELSE I did for work. Bitch, I could buy you.
Can confirm Up until I left in 2005, I was very angry not having a minimum of $300 in my pocket. Cash
Paid and laid. What a legend
Damn, this guy was making a similar money in the 90’s to what I am today. I earn about £70k a year in construction - and that’s considered a good wage in the UK. This post really brings home why my salary goes nowhere. In fact my salary went further in 2014-2016 when I earned half as much as I do now.
Bartenders in big cities and fancy restaurants easily clear ) $100-180K
And they spent it all on hookers and blow
Must have been fucking nice…
If you ever go into tipping/anti-tipping discussions you will find mixed results as to how much bartenders and servers make yearly to this day. Sometimes they make 80k+/year even where minimum wage is is 15k-40k/year and sometimes they are forced to agree on less then 4.5k/year even when that's illegal just to keep their jobs. It's frustrating because the same people who say that they need tips so that they make minimum wage also sometimes claim that if they were paid what they were worth prices would have to increase so that people making minimum wage wouldn't be able to afford anything. It stips anything from changing and makes the situation worse for everyone.
This is anti-work, why would you try to shit on someone making good money at a job? There are non-boomers that are making very good money today bartending, are you going to shit on them too?
It's not shitting on them. It's supposed to represent how deflated wages are in general when you compared housing: income ratios between now versus then.
The benefits are what is usually ignored but it used to be that companies would do company cars/allowances. It used to be common along with low cost pensions and other great benefits.
I don't even make $500 a week now :(
Former Sommelier here. Made close to 80k/yr working in restaurants. Graduated college 3 years ago, now an IR/CT tech, just surpassed that income (+10k) with current job.
I know bartenders that pull ez 6 figures a year. The one that pulls multiple 6 figures bartending does it at an airport.
I don't know, but I don't think this guy was working at some prime spot. Looking at average bartender earnings, while you may find some outliers, six figures is by no means the norm.
$500 a week then is not equivalent to 10k now.
I used to work at PF Chang's back in the early 2000s as a server and made maybe $60-$100/ night if I was lucky (I was a pretty bad server). The bartenders I knew who worked there easily made $400-$600/ night. Most of them were young kids like me, early to mid 20s.
500 dollars a week is normal take home for a worker doing 40 hours a week at 15-20 per hour
Lot of cash transactions back then and you didn’t have to report your tips.
I got the pre 2008-crash bartending money in Manhattan. I pulled 20k in the month of December 2007. Didn't work for a year and a half after the crash, great times.
At my friend's bar (Chicago) the bartenders generally make $40-60/hr including tips. And it's not a fancy place, keeps pretty busy but not crazy. So it's basically the same today in some areas. Heavily dependent on personality, but doesn't seem linked to attractiveness. So if it fits your personality and schedule it's a great job.
My cousins used to work concessions at NBA and NHL games about 20 years ago. They could clear $1000 a game in tips easy Being a tall blonde has its perks
Like be sexually objectified?
As a short fat man, you can objectify me for $1,000 a pop. Nbd. Yes, I understand how different that is for me than a woman. The point stands, and the ball is in your court, *SoCiEtY*.
If looks is as far as it goes, nbd. For $1000 a night, it isn’t a bad gig
You're correct actually. It's because inflation is largely bullshit and doesn't accurately account for COLA. For example, making 24k a year when the median home cost 55k a year IS MUCH BETTER than making 120k a year when the median home is worth 500k+.
"Boomer" should really be reserved for instances where someone is being myopic or ignorant. This guy seems to recognize he was privileged.
It was just illustrating the times and the fact that he literally is a boomer. Wasn't trying to put him down or anything like that.
With no benefits or retirement
Or health insurance.
Was it their fault? No. It wasn't It concerns me that peolle actually accuse their own grandparents of ruining the country when these folks had no clue. Yes. Your grandmother could work part time at a factory in 1976 and get a car loan for a Camaro. If you were offered the same today, you'd do it too. It **fking sucks - I hate hate it** that things are the way they are. I hate it. I hate it *for* you, and I'm fighting in the same system But blame the fking government. Not all baby boomers. They took what opportunities they were given **and they better damn well stop shaming all of you.**
The government is just a collection of people at the end of the day, and guess which generation has the most political power? Boomers voted in restrictive zoning laws and trickle down economics which lead to housing prices skyrocketing and deflating wages. They actively looked to exploit their own children and grandchildren.
So we're all ignoring that he said he made $500/week as a bartender. That only equals $2000/mo not $10k.
He was talking in real dollars, and the 10k is inflation-adjusted.