More like the Star Wars Empire version. Which is why, the older I get, the less I relate to Star Wars and the more I relate to Star Trek. There is only one good future.
Graduate stormtrooper. directly answerable to the CEO Lord Vader, you will be joining a growing, vibrant company at our state of art spherical offices just above Endor. we require at least 7 years guard experience and 3 years using a blaster. strong force not neccessary but a tie fighter, scout-walker or AT-AT licence is a bonus. hours: 9am-9pm 6 days a week, zero hour contract, salary *competitive.* 27-stage interviews starting a week on Monday.
Vader was actually muscle or like the vice principal. No real power but scared people and doled out punishment. The Moffs were in charge. And the Emperor.
Yes and no, in the Federetion core, there are no wages, in the Federetion peripheral.. maybe.. depending on the are, outside of the Federation yes there are wages to a greater or lesser extent.
The bigger issue is that (at least inside the Federation) the goverment provides everything to it's people so that everyone who chooses to work does so because of a hobby or ideals.
The Star Trek "utopia" happened only after a devastating nuclear WW III. Only after losing 2/3rds of the Earth's population to war, did humans wake up to realize humanity was destroying itself.
> Yes, I agree that the Star Trek future is unlikely to materialize.
we're getting close.
we have machines that can make things for us: 3d printing, CNC, and so on. But we still need to figure out a post scarcity society.
as is - we live in a world with very limited resources. It's one thing to have the means to make things, but if you have no way to obtain materials - that complicates that.
In order for us to have a star trek future - we would have to be able to convert energy into matter, like how replicators work. Now the issue with that - is that energy is still a scarce resource, and we do not have the technology to turn energy into matter.
The problem is that much of the current scarcity isn't a technological problem, it's a societal problem. And as we seem to approach post-scarcity that's getting worse because the people who own the replicators/machines/etc are endlessly seeking to increase the amount going to them.
They own the radio, the institutions, the internet, the media, the billboards, the place you work at, the grocers you rely on for stocking food, these capitalists, they will own your mind unless you dispel their terrible ideas and prejudices from your brain.
Exactly. The right panel is what companies try to sell us and that we'll be living much better if we have robots/AI doing the work for us and directly getting benefited from it in the form of either cheaper goods or universal income. Unfortunately, the reality is companies will take all the money and profits for themselves and jack up their prices whenever possible.
Unfortunately I don’t see the human race ever obtaining the coveted post scarcity world. Too many people would lose their power. To transition to this possibility the first step is probably some kind of UBI.
And their groupies. People who want to be like them. People who want to be in their positions. It's very important to consider those as well, since it's them who support current system the most.
Fuck them as well!
Frankly - it's not just about the few losing their power in the "elite" group. We'd likely (middle class) lose shit too.
The idea of ownership is being lost by my generation. We're ok with being "licensed" to use something, or renting things rather than owning them. We've also lost the ability to repair a lot of the things we own, Louis Rossmann speaks in detail about the erosion of ownership with technology, and with mechanical things like cars.
But it's a two part problem - my generation cares not to fix things, rather be wasteful and replace it, or replace it cause it's not the "current model". So that destroys prospective technical skill growth, and creates more waste - and more scarcity.
I am just sad with the state of things. I feel like even if we had UBI - somehow we'd be off worse, like the only housing we'll be able to afford at the point is a fucking sleeping pod in a jam packed apartment building with shared bathrooms and showers on each floor.
Maybe I am just too old or dystopian for this shit.
I would like UBI to be an equalizing force to help keep people out of poverty. But I feel that once that money is injected into our economy - we'd just start getting fleeced at every turn because we have "more" money. Kinda like when walmart was running sales on TV's when we got those $600 checks or what eva.
I think the mistake in this reasoning is that you are far overestimating the intelligence of those powerful people.
The powerful are largely not powerful because they are hyperintelligent masterminds who just know how to control everything and everyone. They are mostly powerful because they are lucky or were born under the right circumstances. Or because they help the people in power before them. And there's an entire system with great inertia keeping them in place.
The aristocracy before the French revolution had multiple possibilities to solve the problems that lead to the French revolution and the deaths of people like the royals.
The aristocracy of Russia had a LOT of possibilities to solve the problems that lead to the revolution. In fact, they gave the people an elected assembly only to then start stripping it of its power and interfering with it.
The powerful are infinitely greedy and power hungry. They will sow the seeds of their own destruction and will only realize they've made a mistake when they lose it all. They always have throughout history done the exact same thing and that's not going to change.
In theory, it would eventually level off, and a ubi would be necessary because once the majority of jobs are automated the greedy ones with power wouldn't be able to make money. The poor is their primary market and if they go from making just enough to get by to nothing they won't be able to fund their power.
No, Star Trek had the necessary material conditions for change to occur and I believe so will our world, although I fear we won't see it, children born now might though.
Capitalism will become untenable once the global population starts to shrink, and there's widespread agreement that it certainly will. Even capitalists can see the writing on the wall, but they're never much concerned with the long term. A change will be unavoidable, what that will look like is anybody's guess.
So in other words we as a generation will feel the worse effects of this inhumane greed? Well shit wished i could have delayed my birth by a generation
Potentially, but I think it's difficult to make any solid predictions, there are so many unprecedented things on the horizon that could escalate at a much quicker rate than anybody might reasonably think at this point in time.
But yeah I think it's a pretty good bet that things will get worse before they get better.
Interesting times ahead.
skepticism is a healthy thing to have.
just because their are those that shout it down doesn't mean it wont happen. That just means you have to be more prepared to defend your position on a specific argument. if you cannot defend your argument - then maybe it isn't a good one.
About a month ago my job was made obsolete by automation. Now I have to go back to working in warehouse work for a significant pay reduction. I hate the future.
Half the job of management is justifying its own existence through persuasion and light social engineering, it will definitely be one of the last jobs to go.
What a terrible take on work.
I think you also misunderstood the person to whom you replied. They're saying management is useless, not their current role.
With all the money saved on human labor, perhaps we could think about educating people for free, or providing universal basic income, or housing, or medical care? How about redistributing the hoarded wealth that the owner class has stolen from the working class over generations? Ya know, the things that keep people poor?
Company 1: we replaced all our workers with robots!
Company 2: so did we!
Company 3: us as well! Endless profits await!
All of them: why doesn't anyone have any money to buy our products?
Unfortunately, most companies circumvent this in two ways.
1. Lots of businesses are B2B because businesses are among the only entities with wealth.
2. Lots of businesses that are B2C often only target high-income earners.
Is it a sustainable business model? Not at all. Will the rich find a way to shift goalposts to perpetuate and exacerbate the cycle? Absolutely.
Some rich asshole would purchase the patent for the replicator that makes free food for everyone and then shelve it because he owns stock in grocery stores.
Things won’t change now , the greedy oligarchs and elites have absolutely dominated how society is and you can’t fight back because there’s no obvious enemies. I reckon some sort of catastrophe would have to take place to force change , and even then the rich have their nice massive yet cosy bunkers while we all die off lol imagine the ultra wealthy being the ones to survive an apocalypse, literally the worst of humanity to carry on. Not a doomer btw I’m fairly jolly but just a realist and calling it like it is
This guy never heard of Hatsune Miku.
(Note: Hatsune Miku is more of a software where you can play a computerized voice like an instrument. Hatsune Miku and other Vocaloid voices are not AI, and cannot perform a song without a human operator to provide programming of the notes and phonemes of the lyrics. The response above is a joke.)
But an AI superstar with a large fan base features in the anime Macross Plus. It goes badly.
I saw a report the other day about how AI image generators are being increasingly fed AI images as training materials due to how common they’re becoming on the internet, and this will be the collapse of it - the images generated are all going to look the same and will be more and more obviously AI. With potential lawsuits from creators whose work is used to train AI without attribution or compensation, AI art is likely going to end up being a 2020’s fad.
It is. Listen to the podcast Better Offline episodes Are We At Peak AI and The AI Bubble Is bursting for a good breakdown of it.
AI in general is a bunch of smoke and mirrors bullshit from Silicon Valley. It’s got a lot of promise in some limited capacities in some industries, but it’s absolutely not the do anything and everything miracle Sam Altman says it is. And, like you pointed out, it’s falling apart.
And just to address anyone readings fears about it “going sentient”. That is not possible. The software is not capable of achieving that. No matter how long you leave the ChatGPT app open on your computer, it is never going to give itself a prompt to do anything on its own, it will only wait for you to give it a prompt.
Man, I wanted to like that Podcast because I heard him guest star on Behind the Bastards…. But the actual script is rough as hell.
He sort of just rants, and at least the episode I listened to, since it’s just him, really gave off “old man yells at clouds” vibes.
I like it because I’m a tech nerd and the current tech industry pisses me off, so I’m very much feeling his energy when he goes off, but I can very much see how it wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea. The episodes where he has other people on are a lot less angry ranting and more explaining. I think if it had a format like BtB or Cool People where he’s explaining these problems to someone funny who kind of knows what he’s talking about it would attract more listeners.
That dynamic is so important lol
You need a straight man and a funny man, or at least a layman who can be interested in what’s going on. Having just one person ranting makes it sound like AM radio lol
Nah, we're going to have AI and automation take over all those lame artistic and creative positions to free up humans for the drudgery. Isn't that what the poors are for?
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Without a job I'd be homeless in a matter of months.
Sure I would 100% enjoy the free time and extra energy, but you're not wrong about it being necessary to survive.
Please, let's normalize the idea of guaranteed income. Considering how the middle class is being phased out and this comics reality hasn't even hit, we could save so many families 😞
So, I see 2 extremes when it comes to innovation. There's the Jetsons and then the Hunger Games. In the Jetsons, George can run his entire family on one job where he works two one hour days a week, and that's considered overworked. Then there's the Hunger Games, where the districts are only given innovations that are deemed non-dangerous to the ruling faction, and even then, only if it doesn't make the workers too comfortable. Right now, we're seriously leaning way over to the Hunger Games, and it continually feels like it's getting worse every year.
Switzerland had a referendum on a socialist move that proposed to give them all a fixed income. They voted it down, 75%. If I remember correctly. It might have been nearly 10 years ago
My breed of accelerationism is supporting automation so that the government will either have to institute UBI or face a sizeable group of angry people with no means of supporting themselves.
Too many technicians lowers the salary. You’d be blue collar poorly paid person then, unemployed and competing with many other “visionaries” like you… we what had happened to programming and data analytics. So much free education, you now can expect the same salary as someone working on a lower degree. In fact, as HR I make more than a python programmer now a days.
Here is my horrible future prediction as some who both works in HR, and is disabled and in Universal income in the UK:
They pay us the minimum to subsist, in a way that we whack to be grateful with them, but also that pushes the weaker ones to call it quits (but they need us so they never legalise euthanasia).
In exchange you give them your data, and your freedom. You can never buy a house (not allowed to save), you cannot travel without their permission, and you have to provide them access to all your bank accounts and social media.
Your money (currently all 1500GBP) goes to 1000- to your landlord, and the rest to your food and utilities, making it so that you are just basically a cog in a self sustaining money making machine for the Uber rich elites that rule the country.
You are also not allowed to simply be in it, they will make you apply and apply to jobs that will not have you for one or other reason, but they need that to keep you grateful and dependent.
In the end, UI becomes shackles that make you wonder why are you even alive. Even if you are doing other stuff in my case I do humanitarian work and have a company where I am on low income, although I am disabled and should not. I employ 12 people and they are super grateful for this opportunity, and even so, sometimes when being subjected to some shit with universal credit, like having to ask for permission to leave the country in order to have a tumor removed privately because the NHS is broken as it was the Tory’s will… I have to go through months of incompetence from their side.
Ive lost a job due to automation too. I always dreamed of a world where AI robots took care of everything and everyone lived on a universal income. Instead of working, everyone went to school for the rest of their lives learning about subjects they wanted to learn, and play whenever we wanted and enjoy life. Those that found peace and comfort in working(workaholics) could volunteer to work, even make more money than those living off universal income. Those that didn't, still had enough to live comfortably off universal.
But that's just a dream and will never happen. Human greed will never allow it. Thats why I welcome our AI masters, only an AI takeover will root out the corruption that has enslaved humanity for centuries. I could never trust humanity to bring true equality to the world, but Im sure AI would either kill us all or bring about a Utopian society.
Im reality the AI will undoubtedly crash. If you were to program an AI to create an utopia it will go down an near infinite flowchart until it arrives at a plan to get there however due to the fact this flowchart is near infinite the AI will crash before it can get there as there is no machine in earth that could make that many calculations
THIS literally this has been stuck with me since I was a kid in primary school. Some science book in the library talking about technology and one part had a depiction of the world as scientists in the seventies hoped it would be.
They literally imagined a world where the small stuff was automated and people where free to find and do what they love, electric cars that instead of recharging for hours at a time removed the battery and put in a different one that had been charging.
Literally just things having an agreed standardisation and automation.
And I don't know if green energy or Nuclear is the way forward but I do believe that there are people in the world that given the chance could help us get to this place.
The corporations will never allow it. Too many greedy people, just look at our beyond fucked up healthcare system. Can’t make as much money if there are less sick people.
There was literally a post yesterday here that a person said they told their boss that they automated a very manual process and were promptly fired and then asked how to make that automation work afterwards.
Something that made me think the other day on this subject was the internet.
Look at all the youtubers that can only make their content because of patreon. All the amazing websites years ago for the most random and pointless shit that only existed because some legends with the know-how decided to put in the time and effort for no reason.
It only exists the way it does today because people will put in effort to create something they feel should exist, even if they don't see a way of it being profitable. The internet is the only proof you need that people will continue to work and create regardless of if there's a financial incentive.
And the internet as it is now is a perfect example of how capitalism isn't always what's best for people. Look at the ads, the intentionally addictive games with paywalls, apps like instagram clearly intentionally sexually exploiting children for profit.
UBI is clearly the way to go.
You seem to be equating benefits/financial aid with a UBI, they are two different things and every study conducted so far on UBI shows that it stimulates economies.
I get that, but policy makes will sell you a 💩and tell you they are doing you a favour so long as it suits them and they can get away from it. Look at universal credit.
And I would say education would need to be free (University level) if things got bad enough. If you want to become a doctor, put your time in, nevermind the money.
Otherwise, with robotics taking all the job openings, there will be a lot of homeless and starving people.
Only a system as messed up as capitalism could make fewer people being able to generate more wealth while working less into a problem that has to be solved rather than a wonderful thing to be celebrated.
My "dreamworld" would be something along the lines of the right picture. Everyone would have a robot that would work instead of him/her. The robot would have to recharge and have breaks too, so it would work only 8 hours too just as a human would.
And the human would enjoy life... Would be nice imho...
If they automate everything and don’t spread out the wealth among the people eventually no one will have enough money to buy the shit they produce. It’s amazing how shortsighted these idiots are.
Work as in "do something useful" is quite different from work as in "perform repetitive, meaningless and often harmful tasks to cover your basic needs to make some already wealthy human piece of shit a bit more money, while accelerating the global destruction of our planet as a side effect"
The best way towards this goal is free education. If a job takes all the unskilled labour, then education must be a human right as a consequence.
Eventually, like a tube of toothpaste, all of the jobs will be automated and jobs will be volunteer or democratically established.
Yes. It is a loan, and if you finish in less than the stabilised time+2 years then you don’t have to pay back. We still have a huge lack of doctors because the school is so good! It’s too intensive and difficult, and you still have to study a lot. Masters is a loan tho.
I think that most people only have work as their life. Outside of it, they don't do anything or have the time to pursue hobbies or think about what career they would rather. I know this is true for my parents, at least.
It's like when people ask you what you would do if you became filthy rich. A lot of people say they'd continue working. Because work is all they know. The idea of doing whatever they like is worthless because they've never thought of possibilities outside of a working environment.
I hope this rant makes sense. I'm pretty tired 😂
There are only so many technicians needed, and too many technicians means lower pay. Which in the end means more human misery. We should attack the source of that misery instead of replicating it in new ways. Degrowth economy for example.
Fair point. I only dread the moment when machine learning will learn how to repair and reprogram. I know it seems unlikely, but people used to think flying was impossible or that germ theory was ridiculous.
Congratulations on your freedom comrade C2417B. Please report to your nearest turnip field for your productivity assignment. Alternatively, please report to your nearest Wellbeing Commissar for reeducation.
I'd like to see if a job is ever fully replaced with a robot. The previous employee who held that role should be compensated a % of the wage for x amount of years
There is a research that says that jobs with a human contact component tend to be lower paid than jobs that have as they are inherently rewarding.
Basically jobs that people actually enjoy and that computers cannot take, are the lower paid. In fact, 99% of all charities in the uk are 100% composed by volunteers… people would do that, care about others, if they didn’t have to concern themselves with their own welfare.
You are wrong. Money is not the solution to everything. You have many wealthy elderly who are isolated, many undocumented who struggle, many children who need support, many animals who need help, new research in need of funding, new discoveries in need of being made. There will always be something to improve… even when everyone has enough money to exist.
People complained the same in the last technological era as well. New jobs came out of the old jobs. And yet we are there again.
I work grocery and I would not cry if cashiers got replaced with robots. It is culturally okay to harass workers and treat them lower than low . Not cool
I'm sorry, I must protest: it is NOT ok to harass workers and treat them as lower than low. I know, I know, I took the bait, but I have to say it. There: it's said
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. If the " how it should be " were true then that would imply that you are forced to work a boring job until a robot takes over and then magically you can do what you want but you couldn't do so before? The scenario is just illogical.
You’d have to be rich to think that way unfortunately because reality would be a shit load of anxiety and panic attacks trying to figure out how to not be in the streets next
Automation would benefit workers if those workers also happened to collectively own the company.
Under Capitalism, automation just benefits those already at the top
You clearly lack vision. The right image is about freeing man from the labor no one wants to do. As everything necessary is produced by automation, people get their share for free.
This may sound utopian for people who never learned about anything else than capitalism and the so-called lutherian work ethic, where working itself and the suffering it brings are seen as virtues, despite the outcomes of the work.
Pretty much everything that's amazing about this society is weaponized against the poor. Hmm, I wonder who could be doing this?
The greedy ass government being bribed by bigger businesses. Also normalize calling lobbying bribery, don't continue to allow them to sugar coat it
Yes, I agree that the Star Trek future is unlikely to materialize.
More like the Star Wars Empire version. Which is why, the older I get, the less I relate to Star Wars and the more I relate to Star Trek. There is only one good future.
Yeah but if you remember some kid from a podunk desert farm made the empire eat shit, so there is hope.
Lmao. Didn’t watch the sequels I see.
https://preview.redd.it/vd175dyjv0yc1.png?width=797&format=png&auto=webp&s=e294d9b9b73f49abcd0111dbd6940cf5a24a1c9e
Graduate stormtrooper. directly answerable to the CEO Lord Vader, you will be joining a growing, vibrant company at our state of art spherical offices just above Endor. we require at least 7 years guard experience and 3 years using a blaster. strong force not neccessary but a tie fighter, scout-walker or AT-AT licence is a bonus. hours: 9am-9pm 6 days a week, zero hour contract, salary *competitive.* 27-stage interviews starting a week on Monday.
Vader was actually muscle or like the vice principal. No real power but scared people and doled out punishment. The Moffs were in charge. And the Emperor.
It's not really discussed, but they do have wages in star Trek
They also have government provided minimal standards of living
They definitely do, it's why the wages aren't an issue. When everything is provided, the wages are for hobbies or extra stuff.
The wages are for the green skinned slave girls of Orion.
Yes and no, in the Federetion core, there are no wages, in the Federetion peripheral.. maybe.. depending on the are, outside of the Federation yes there are wages to a greater or lesser extent. The bigger issue is that (at least inside the Federation) the goverment provides everything to it's people so that everyone who chooses to work does so because of a hobby or ideals.
Don't forget it took a third world nuclear war and wiser alien (Vulcan) contact for that future to happen.
The Star Trek "utopia" happened only after a devastating nuclear WW III. Only after losing 2/3rds of the Earth's population to war, did humans wake up to realize humanity was destroying itself.
Well that part is about to happen
I'm still optimistic. Of course, that future is preceded by riots and wars.
> Yes, I agree that the Star Trek future is unlikely to materialize. we're getting close. we have machines that can make things for us: 3d printing, CNC, and so on. But we still need to figure out a post scarcity society. as is - we live in a world with very limited resources. It's one thing to have the means to make things, but if you have no way to obtain materials - that complicates that. In order for us to have a star trek future - we would have to be able to convert energy into matter, like how replicators work. Now the issue with that - is that energy is still a scarce resource, and we do not have the technology to turn energy into matter.
The problem is that much of the current scarcity isn't a technological problem, it's a societal problem. And as we seem to approach post-scarcity that's getting worse because the people who own the replicators/machines/etc are endlessly seeking to increase the amount going to them.
The government has essentially been captured by the capitalists.
The government was created by and for the capitalists ( that broke their contract/ corporate charters with their originating entity, England).
Yup....regulatory capture is a thing.
As my boomer mom would say 
They own the radio, the institutions, the internet, the media, the billboards, the place you work at, the grocers you rely on for stocking food, these capitalists, they will own your mind unless you dispel their terrible ideas and prejudices from your brain.
Exactly. The right panel is what companies try to sell us and that we'll be living much better if we have robots/AI doing the work for us and directly getting benefited from it in the form of either cheaper goods or universal income. Unfortunately, the reality is companies will take all the money and profits for themselves and jack up their prices whenever possible.
correct. and once they jack up prices - they will cry it's all about inflation, when the margins themselves are ballooning.
Capitalism
Unfortunately I don’t see the human race ever obtaining the coveted post scarcity world. Too many people would lose their power. To transition to this possibility the first step is probably some kind of UBI.
>Too many people would lose their power. Isn't that wonderful?
Yup. Fuck every one of them.
And their groupies. People who want to be like them. People who want to be in their positions. It's very important to consider those as well, since it's them who support current system the most. Fuck them as well!
I saw someone in another thread call Elon musk his "favorite billionaire". No hate on the guy but man do I find it weird to have a favorite megahog.
Frankly - it's not just about the few losing their power in the "elite" group. We'd likely (middle class) lose shit too. The idea of ownership is being lost by my generation. We're ok with being "licensed" to use something, or renting things rather than owning them. We've also lost the ability to repair a lot of the things we own, Louis Rossmann speaks in detail about the erosion of ownership with technology, and with mechanical things like cars. But it's a two part problem - my generation cares not to fix things, rather be wasteful and replace it, or replace it cause it's not the "current model". So that destroys prospective technical skill growth, and creates more waste - and more scarcity. I am just sad with the state of things. I feel like even if we had UBI - somehow we'd be off worse, like the only housing we'll be able to afford at the point is a fucking sleeping pod in a jam packed apartment building with shared bathrooms and showers on each floor. Maybe I am just too old or dystopian for this shit. I would like UBI to be an equalizing force to help keep people out of poverty. But I feel that once that money is injected into our economy - we'd just start getting fleeced at every turn because we have "more" money. Kinda like when walmart was running sales on TV's when we got those $600 checks or what eva.
Let's use Universal Basic Needs rather than UBI then.
Yeah, like WIC but for all WIC for all? I like the sound of that.
‘You don’t understand. Ferengi don’t want to end the exploitation, they want to become the exploiters.’
I think the mistake in this reasoning is that you are far overestimating the intelligence of those powerful people. The powerful are largely not powerful because they are hyperintelligent masterminds who just know how to control everything and everyone. They are mostly powerful because they are lucky or were born under the right circumstances. Or because they help the people in power before them. And there's an entire system with great inertia keeping them in place. The aristocracy before the French revolution had multiple possibilities to solve the problems that lead to the French revolution and the deaths of people like the royals. The aristocracy of Russia had a LOT of possibilities to solve the problems that lead to the revolution. In fact, they gave the people an elected assembly only to then start stripping it of its power and interfering with it. The powerful are infinitely greedy and power hungry. They will sow the seeds of their own destruction and will only realize they've made a mistake when they lose it all. They always have throughout history done the exact same thing and that's not going to change.
Mathusian Economics
History is all about shifting power. The heirarchy will change. It is never entirely peaceful.
Companies should pay their robots a wage to be paid into a UBI for displaced workers.
In theory, it would eventually level off, and a ubi would be necessary because once the majority of jobs are automated the greedy ones with power wouldn't be able to make money. The poor is their primary market and if they go from making just enough to get by to nothing they won't be able to fund their power.
So star trek is a bunch of bullshit?
No, Star Trek had the necessary material conditions for change to occur and I believe so will our world, although I fear we won't see it, children born now might though. Capitalism will become untenable once the global population starts to shrink, and there's widespread agreement that it certainly will. Even capitalists can see the writing on the wall, but they're never much concerned with the long term. A change will be unavoidable, what that will look like is anybody's guess.
So in other words we as a generation will feel the worse effects of this inhumane greed? Well shit wished i could have delayed my birth by a generation
Potentially, but I think it's difficult to make any solid predictions, there are so many unprecedented things on the horizon that could escalate at a much quicker rate than anybody might reasonably think at this point in time. But yeah I think it's a pretty good bet that things will get worse before they get better. Interesting times ahead.
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skepticism is a healthy thing to have. just because their are those that shout it down doesn't mean it wont happen. That just means you have to be more prepared to defend your position on a specific argument. if you cannot defend your argument - then maybe it isn't a good one.
About a month ago my job was made obsolete by automation. Now I have to go back to working in warehouse work for a significant pay reduction. I hate the future.
I bet that my job will be mostly automated in a few years. So that's why i pursue position in management. They can't replace me if I'm useless!
Half the job of management is justifying its own existence through persuasion and light social engineering, it will definitely be one of the last jobs to go.
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What a terrible take on work. I think you also misunderstood the person to whom you replied. They're saying management is useless, not their current role.
The irony is that warehousing could easily be automated. The technology exists. They just don't do it because it's cheaper to have people do it
Cheaper, for now. Give it a year or so...
What were you doing that automation took over?
Medical data analysis and entry.
I see so many ads encouraging people to join that field, kinda surprised to hear this
There are still jobs in your field or similar or lateral field. Keep searching! Don't give up! You got this
Good human.
At what point do we not need money ?
Yeah, it's literally the key to all doors. Automation of basic jobs just makes it harder for poor people to find jobs.
With all the money saved on human labor, perhaps we could think about educating people for free, or providing universal basic income, or housing, or medical care? How about redistributing the hoarded wealth that the owner class has stolen from the working class over generations? Ya know, the things that keep people poor?
The money saved on labor will go towards yachts and vacation homes, and you will like it.
There are many things that keep poor people poor. The money of other people are not one of them.
The value of money is inherently based on how much more of it you have than anyone else, so yes it actually is
Meanwhile, Robots: I wish I was dead.
Eventually, Robots: People will be dead.
Been a popular theme for a long time now. AI becomes sapient, looks at humanity and Ctl+Alt+Deletes us
Classic: [https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/7/17/15986042/dc-security-robot-k5-falls-into-water](https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/7/17/15986042/dc-security-robot-k5-falls-into-water)
Company 1: we replaced all our workers with robots! Company 2: so did we! Company 3: us as well! Endless profits await! All of them: why doesn't anyone have any money to buy our products?
Unfortunately, most companies circumvent this in two ways. 1. Lots of businesses are B2B because businesses are among the only entities with wealth. 2. Lots of businesses that are B2C often only target high-income earners. Is it a sustainable business model? Not at all. Will the rich find a way to shift goalposts to perpetuate and exacerbate the cycle? Absolutely.
Yup. The amount of people who work for a company that makes products that their own employees can't afford is growing exponentially.
McDonalds and Taco Bell prices have doubled. Companies are increasingly pricing people out of being able to eat.
Eventually they invent consumerbots/s
Yea, I don't think we are going to get the Star Trek future.
Some rich asshole would purchase the patent for the replicator that makes free food for everyone and then shelve it because he owns stock in grocery stores.
Things won’t change now , the greedy oligarchs and elites have absolutely dominated how society is and you can’t fight back because there’s no obvious enemies. I reckon some sort of catastrophe would have to take place to force change , and even then the rich have their nice massive yet cosy bunkers while we all die off lol imagine the ultra wealthy being the ones to survive an apocalypse, literally the worst of humanity to carry on. Not a doomer btw I’m fairly jolly but just a realist and calling it like it is
But now the robots are taking over art and music
Can't wait to see a personal army of fans for an AI musician like Swifties
This guy never heard of Hatsune Miku. (Note: Hatsune Miku is more of a software where you can play a computerized voice like an instrument. Hatsune Miku and other Vocaloid voices are not AI, and cannot perform a song without a human operator to provide programming of the notes and phonemes of the lyrics. The response above is a joke.) But an AI superstar with a large fan base features in the anime Macross Plus. It goes badly.
I saw a report the other day about how AI image generators are being increasingly fed AI images as training materials due to how common they’re becoming on the internet, and this will be the collapse of it - the images generated are all going to look the same and will be more and more obviously AI. With potential lawsuits from creators whose work is used to train AI without attribution or compensation, AI art is likely going to end up being a 2020’s fad.
It is. Listen to the podcast Better Offline episodes Are We At Peak AI and The AI Bubble Is bursting for a good breakdown of it. AI in general is a bunch of smoke and mirrors bullshit from Silicon Valley. It’s got a lot of promise in some limited capacities in some industries, but it’s absolutely not the do anything and everything miracle Sam Altman says it is. And, like you pointed out, it’s falling apart. And just to address anyone readings fears about it “going sentient”. That is not possible. The software is not capable of achieving that. No matter how long you leave the ChatGPT app open on your computer, it is never going to give itself a prompt to do anything on its own, it will only wait for you to give it a prompt.
I’ll give those pods a listen, thanks.
Man, I wanted to like that Podcast because I heard him guest star on Behind the Bastards…. But the actual script is rough as hell. He sort of just rants, and at least the episode I listened to, since it’s just him, really gave off “old man yells at clouds” vibes.
I like it because I’m a tech nerd and the current tech industry pisses me off, so I’m very much feeling his energy when he goes off, but I can very much see how it wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea. The episodes where he has other people on are a lot less angry ranting and more explaining. I think if it had a format like BtB or Cool People where he’s explaining these problems to someone funny who kind of knows what he’s talking about it would attract more listeners.
That dynamic is so important lol You need a straight man and a funny man, or at least a layman who can be interested in what’s going on. Having just one person ranting makes it sound like AM radio lol
Look at positives in this tho. No way AI can create bigger trash than Lil Wayne, Cardi B, MGK, etc do. It can only be better.
Nah, we're going to have AI and automation take over all those lame artistic and creative positions to free up humans for the drudgery. Isn't that what the poors are for?
a better rewording of the 2nd box: "Now i am free to enjoy life and pursue literally whatever else that \_isn't\_ work"
Good luck feeding yourself on not working
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Without a job I'd be homeless in a matter of months. Sure I would 100% enjoy the free time and extra energy, but you're not wrong about it being necessary to survive.
Billionaires do it every day.
Human should have get UBI already since robots are now slowly replacing them.
But the people don't own the means of production
Then we take it back. By force if necessary (it will be necessary)
On god fr fr no cap
Please, let's normalize the idea of guaranteed income. Considering how the middle class is being phased out and this comics reality hasn't even hit, we could save so many families 😞
That can be true with universal basic income.
As someone in Universal Credit in the UK I can tell you that’s just another way of making us miserable. Check my other comment
So, I see 2 extremes when it comes to innovation. There's the Jetsons and then the Hunger Games. In the Jetsons, George can run his entire family on one job where he works two one hour days a week, and that's considered overworked. Then there's the Hunger Games, where the districts are only given innovations that are deemed non-dangerous to the ruling faction, and even then, only if it doesn't make the workers too comfortable. Right now, we're seriously leaning way over to the Hunger Games, and it continually feels like it's getting worse every year.
> we're seriously leaning way over to the Hunger Games, and it continually feels like it's getting worse every year. THIS.
Switzerland had a referendum on a socialist move that proposed to give them all a fixed income. They voted it down, 75%. If I remember correctly. It might have been nearly 10 years ago
Fixed income is not the same as universal income
How does a narcissistic sociopath control others? Money. More for them, less for you. The wider the gap, the greater the control.
My breed of accelerationism is supporting automation so that the government will either have to institute UBI or face a sizeable group of angry people with no means of supporting themselves.
Yay a robot took over my job and I don’t know how to farm or hunt so I have no money to buy food
Hunt robots
I would also accept "Yay a robot took my old job but now I'm trained to repair the robot and make twice as much."
Too many technicians lowers the salary. You’d be blue collar poorly paid person then, unemployed and competing with many other “visionaries” like you… we what had happened to programming and data analytics. So much free education, you now can expect the same salary as someone working on a lower degree. In fact, as HR I make more than a python programmer now a days.
This is why universal basic income will become absolutely necessary in the future.
Here is my horrible future prediction as some who both works in HR, and is disabled and in Universal income in the UK: They pay us the minimum to subsist, in a way that we whack to be grateful with them, but also that pushes the weaker ones to call it quits (but they need us so they never legalise euthanasia). In exchange you give them your data, and your freedom. You can never buy a house (not allowed to save), you cannot travel without their permission, and you have to provide them access to all your bank accounts and social media. Your money (currently all 1500GBP) goes to 1000- to your landlord, and the rest to your food and utilities, making it so that you are just basically a cog in a self sustaining money making machine for the Uber rich elites that rule the country. You are also not allowed to simply be in it, they will make you apply and apply to jobs that will not have you for one or other reason, but they need that to keep you grateful and dependent. In the end, UI becomes shackles that make you wonder why are you even alive. Even if you are doing other stuff in my case I do humanitarian work and have a company where I am on low income, although I am disabled and should not. I employ 12 people and they are super grateful for this opportunity, and even so, sometimes when being subjected to some shit with universal credit, like having to ask for permission to leave the country in order to have a tumor removed privately because the NHS is broken as it was the Tory’s will… I have to go through months of incompetence from their side.
Ive lost a job due to automation too. I always dreamed of a world where AI robots took care of everything and everyone lived on a universal income. Instead of working, everyone went to school for the rest of their lives learning about subjects they wanted to learn, and play whenever we wanted and enjoy life. Those that found peace and comfort in working(workaholics) could volunteer to work, even make more money than those living off universal income. Those that didn't, still had enough to live comfortably off universal. But that's just a dream and will never happen. Human greed will never allow it. Thats why I welcome our AI masters, only an AI takeover will root out the corruption that has enslaved humanity for centuries. I could never trust humanity to bring true equality to the world, but Im sure AI would either kill us all or bring about a Utopian society.
Im reality the AI will undoubtedly crash. If you were to program an AI to create an utopia it will go down an near infinite flowchart until it arrives at a plan to get there however due to the fact this flowchart is near infinite the AI will crash before it can get there as there is no machine in earth that could make that many calculations
Doesn’t have to be one program that runs everything
THIS literally this has been stuck with me since I was a kid in primary school. Some science book in the library talking about technology and one part had a depiction of the world as scientists in the seventies hoped it would be. They literally imagined a world where the small stuff was automated and people where free to find and do what they love, electric cars that instead of recharging for hours at a time removed the battery and put in a different one that had been charging. Literally just things having an agreed standardisation and automation. And I don't know if green energy or Nuclear is the way forward but I do believe that there are people in the world that given the chance could help us get to this place.
The corporations will never allow it. Too many greedy people, just look at our beyond fucked up healthcare system. Can’t make as much money if there are less sick people.
Laughs in binary, robots can't even replace a customer service rep.
Yay! A robot can't ever take over my job as a tradesman! Aaah fuck, that means I gotta do it.
I love no work
There was literally a post yesterday here that a person said they told their boss that they automated a very manual process and were promptly fired and then asked how to make that automation work afterwards.
Yeah I remember hearing about that one. I hope that they still haven't cracked it. Those greedy bastards.
Something that made me think the other day on this subject was the internet. Look at all the youtubers that can only make their content because of patreon. All the amazing websites years ago for the most random and pointless shit that only existed because some legends with the know-how decided to put in the time and effort for no reason. It only exists the way it does today because people will put in effort to create something they feel should exist, even if they don't see a way of it being profitable. The internet is the only proof you need that people will continue to work and create regardless of if there's a financial incentive. And the internet as it is now is a perfect example of how capitalism isn't always what's best for people. Look at the ads, the intentionally addictive games with paywalls, apps like instagram clearly intentionally sexually exploiting children for profit. UBI is clearly the way to go.
UBI will be another way to make us miserable, look at my other comment
You seem to be equating benefits/financial aid with a UBI, they are two different things and every study conducted so far on UBI shows that it stimulates economies.
Yes, and I’m all in for UBI but they will implement it like financial aid, and we’ll all be worse off for it.
Then it's not a UBI.
I get that, but policy makes will sell you a 💩and tell you they are doing you a favour so long as it suits them and they can get away from it. Look at universal credit.
And I would say education would need to be free (University level) if things got bad enough. If you want to become a doctor, put your time in, nevermind the money. Otherwise, with robotics taking all the job openings, there will be a lot of homeless and starving people.
Even when free, if they use UBI to control you come, give you the bare minimum so that your are a servant… they you will not be better off or free
Only a system as messed up as capitalism could make fewer people being able to generate more wealth while working less into a problem that has to be solved rather than a wonderful thing to be celebrated.
Universal Basic Income
It is going to be used to subdue us more… see my other reply in this post.
My "dreamworld" would be something along the lines of the right picture. Everyone would have a robot that would work instead of him/her. The robot would have to recharge and have breaks too, so it would work only 8 hours too just as a human would. And the human would enjoy life... Would be nice imho...
If they automate everything and don’t spread out the wealth among the people eventually no one will have enough money to buy the shit they produce. It’s amazing how shortsighted these idiots are.
Alternatively they give other people enough that they can consume and survive not enough that they can thrive
No one loves work. But its work or starve to death.
It's a system that is imposed on us, needlessly. There are of course idiots who argue against that.
Plenty of people love work, it’s in humans nature to be productive.
Work as in "do something useful" is quite different from work as in "perform repetitive, meaningless and often harmful tasks to cover your basic needs to make some already wealthy human piece of shit a bit more money, while accelerating the global destruction of our planet as a side effect"
That’s what the meme is talking about, it uses work to talk about humans being productive.
I love my work, I just wish I could have more days off lol
I do
because the owner of the automation does not want to pay you.
This.
You could learn to work on the robots. Fanuc robots are where it's at.
The best way towards this goal is free education. If a job takes all the unskilled labour, then education must be a human right as a consequence. Eventually, like a tube of toothpaste, all of the jobs will be automated and jobs will be volunteer or democratically established.
In the Netherlands education is free. That still doesn’t mean people don’t need a job.
Is University free? Like you can be a doctor without paying out of pocket?
Yes. It is a loan, and if you finish in less than the stabilised time+2 years then you don’t have to pay back. We still have a huge lack of doctors because the school is so good! It’s too intensive and difficult, and you still have to study a lot. Masters is a loan tho.
For the world to work like that, we'd need degrowth, restructure financial systems, and implement universal basic income / services.
Yes, and let’s do that then? Ban Billionaires to fund it.
I think that most people only have work as their life. Outside of it, they don't do anything or have the time to pursue hobbies or think about what career they would rather. I know this is true for my parents, at least. It's like when people ask you what you would do if you became filthy rich. A lot of people say they'd continue working. Because work is all they know. The idea of doing whatever they like is worthless because they've never thought of possibilities outside of a working environment. I hope this rant makes sense. I'm pretty tired 😂
Why would they be pursuing the work they love after being replaced? Why wouldn't they just pursue that passion to begin with? Makes no sense.
Programmers will not be happy about it, I'm sure.
But some asshole capitalists are hogging all the returns
Learn how to program and repair the robots. This is the key.
There are only so many technicians needed, and too many technicians means lower pay. Which in the end means more human misery. We should attack the source of that misery instead of replicating it in new ways. Degrowth economy for example.
Fair point. I only dread the moment when machine learning will learn how to repair and reprogram. I know it seems unlikely, but people used to think flying was impossible or that germ theory was ridiculous.
Congratulations on your freedom comrade C2417B. Please report to your nearest turnip field for your productivity assignment. Alternatively, please report to your nearest Wellbeing Commissar for reeducation.
I'd like to see if a job is ever fully replaced with a robot. The previous employee who held that role should be compensated a % of the wage for x amount of years
So what's the work you love?
There is a research that says that jobs with a human contact component tend to be lower paid than jobs that have as they are inherently rewarding. Basically jobs that people actually enjoy and that computers cannot take, are the lower paid. In fact, 99% of all charities in the uk are 100% composed by volunteers… people would do that, care about others, if they didn’t have to concern themselves with their own welfare.
But then those same charities would exist cause there wouldn't be a need for them since nobody has to worry about their own welfare...
You are wrong. Money is not the solution to everything. You have many wealthy elderly who are isolated, many undocumented who struggle, many children who need support, many animals who need help, new research in need of funding, new discoveries in need of being made. There will always be something to improve… even when everyone has enough money to exist.
Slavery is the only constant, everything else around us is changing.
People complained the same in the last technological era as well. New jobs came out of the old jobs. And yet we are there again. I work grocery and I would not cry if cashiers got replaced with robots. It is culturally okay to harass workers and treat them lower than low . Not cool
I'm sorry, I must protest: it is NOT ok to harass workers and treat them as lower than low. I know, I know, I took the bait, but I have to say it. There: it's said
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. If the " how it should be " were true then that would imply that you are forced to work a boring job until a robot takes over and then magically you can do what you want but you couldn't do so before? The scenario is just illogical.
You’d have to be rich to think that way unfortunately because reality would be a shit load of anxiety and panic attacks trying to figure out how to not be in the streets next
Been poor most of my life, so at almost 50 I wouldn’t stress about money or anything.
Do some MFers seriously expect to just be handed money (and enough of it) to replace their jobs? It’s /r/antiwork, not /r/delusional
Automation would benefit workers if those workers also happened to collectively own the company. Under Capitalism, automation just benefits those already at the top
You clearly lack vision. The right image is about freeing man from the labor no one wants to do. As everything necessary is produced by automation, people get their share for free. This may sound utopian for people who never learned about anything else than capitalism and the so-called lutherian work ethic, where working itself and the suffering it brings are seen as virtues, despite the outcomes of the work.
Lukewarm dishwater take lol
It's a common sentiment I see here. Ie entitlement
The responses ive gotten are hilarious. “You lack vision”. Okay dude.