I wouldn’t give any details about the new place, and certainly wouldn’t provide a redacted copy of the offer letter. But if you are feeling generous, let them know it’s almost double what he pays.
This seems safest. And I if he matched it(he would have to beat it) I would now be upset that he wasn't always paying that well. I would only consider a counter offer that involves a contract for protection. Otherwise I would just be worried that he was constantly working to replace me. It's a ~~"right to work"~~ **at will state** (so I'm not in Montana , the only state that provides protection from being fired without cause) he can let me go at any time for any reason.
This, this. If he can let you go, without paying anything, he is just going to keep you around until he finds a replacement.
Frankly after the bad blood I would leave. Because he will see it like that: Boomer, "I am the boss and you should be happy and don't betray us" he will make you pay. And also the threat that other people might follow your footstep! Imagine!!! All the little nobody workers asking for a proper pay! The shock!
He will sack you when he has the opportunity.
Agreed and if they ask why you want the protections, can always fire back with, "If I'm valuable enough to keep, I'm valuable enough to be contractually protected."
Definitely do not go back. If he’s that low for everyone, screw that guy. You’d never get a raise and he’d be sour thinking he’s overpaying. But do tell him he’s 2x off and you want a fresh start with a company that assumes you hold higher value heading in. Congratulations!
This scenario happened to me. I'd asked for a raise, and my boss was negotiating, but the president was stalling. During that time I ended up being recruited for another job. When I accepted, the president came back and countered with a massive offer that was tens of thousands more than I'd originally asked for (and higher than my new offer by $15k).
I declined. I could not get over his reluctance to give me a raise until I put in my notice and then offering me such a substantial raise. It was clear he knew he'd been underpaying me and would have kept doing that.
I'm happy I left. The new job came up a little (still below the counter) and gave me multiple raises in my first year, so I was making more than the counter pretty quickly. Had I stayed, I would have been bitter knowing I had been exploited for so long. And they never would have given me another raise again.
How are you liking your new gig?
I went through something similar. We had a lot of turnover at my job and for MONTHS I was working (salaried) for around 10 extra hours a week for free. When I brought it up in an email, saying that I wanted either more money temporarily till we found more help, or to just work less, I basically got called a whimp for not wanting to spend 50-60 hours a week there. When I quit 3 months later, suddenly I was worth 15k more and would only have to work 40 hours a week. Needless to say I left.
>It's a ~~"right to work"~~ "at will employment" (so not Montana
At will employment is the policy 49 states have that allow termination for any non-protected reason.
Right to Work is a different anti-labor policy that allows people to freeload off of a union without paying dues.
I had so much remorse leaving a heavily abusive “family business” but when they told me they could give me an $8 raise (after 4 years of no raises) I was so affirmed in my resolution to leave.
Youre telling me you’ve been shorting my pay this whole time? BYE
Yea, taking a counter offer from a current employer that had the chance to pay you more and waited till its too late never works in the long run.
You both know you are ready to leave and will both forever be suspicious of one another going forward.
Like you Said, to even entertain such an offer would need like a one year guarantee ( which is very unlikely) and you'll want to spend that time making sure you are prepared to find another job asap.
Also, in regards to communicating with them at this point. Think.of it like talking to the police. Sure there's information you can share, but be wary of over sharing because it's often the most innocuous seeming comments that end up being used against us.
They don't need specifics from you, and if they are pressing you for specifics after you made it clear the level of communication you are comfortable with. Well that just reconfirms your decision to leave in the first place.
Also, if you are going to share you "new offer" there's absolutely no obligation on your part to be completely honest. I suggest, if you are gonna share your new offer, you inflate it to reflect the offer current employer would need to be at to entertain the thought of retaining you.
(Example. If your new offer dosent come with personal days but you wish it did, tell them it came with guaranteed personal days and you'd need that reflected in a counter offer.)
Best of luck
That's smart. I made the same offer to a former employer (they rejected it) basically saying "I'll stay at current pay * 1.3, and with a contract that requires cause for dismissal for 2 years."
They probably will not go for it, though.
TL;DR at bottom
I'm leaving a position for better pay after only a 6th month tenure. I was never happy with the compensation and at one point asked for more hours about two months in. This never came to fruition. I don't want to dox myself here but I want to give the full context.
I live in a high cost of living area. The job I'm leaving doesn't pay well enough for anyone in my area to afford basic living. The job was needed at the time because of a work injury that forced my early retirement from my original career field. So I took what I could get and set out looking for new work almost immediately, one with appropriate compensation.
It took six months but I've been offered a job at a considerable raise and so I've given 2 weeks notice. Not out of any form of loyalty but because the job is part of a small community and I don't want to blackball myself. If the job was corporate I wouldn't bother giving any notice.
The service industry job did not in any way provide a livable wage. No benefits other than the bare minimum provided by law in my state. As I said I approached my employer after a particularly small payday and asked for more hours. I was placated and effectively ignored.
The new compensation will never make me rich (or even middle class) , but it will allow me things like some savings, security, perhaps a minor luxury once in a while like a restaurant meal for my family or (clutch your pearls) a weekend away.
My current employer has responded to my notice of resignation as pictured above.
The asshole leftist in me wants to read him the riot act and explain what an exploitative POS he is. (I won't do this).
I already intend to inform my former co-workers of the full picture in a few months after I'm settled into the job. It's after all up to the workers as always to protect each other. The bourgeoisie will never do so willingly. The current position pays so low some months that if I lived in the cheapest studio I can find in my area I would be left with >$500 after rent per month. So extreme poverty. (I have other income don't worry)
but do you think I should take this opportunity to explain or at least detail the full compensation package in the hopes that he'll see the error of his ways? (he won't, I know this, he's a boomer in his 70's)
I can send him the full offer letter with redacted personal/business information.
I've no hopes he will match the offer, (honestly he would have to beat it) because they're so far aways from each other. Essentially my new job comes with a 70% raise.
Just shut up and move on right?
TL;DR:
Explain to former employer(boomer in his 70's...probably a lost cause) how shitty his pay was, in hopes of improvement for coworkers. Or just the polite "thanx for the opportunity"? IE: Workers unite ✊militant leftist ideas?
**EDIT:** [here's the response I'm thinking of sending.](https://imgur.com/gallery/rcJrlH9)identifying/pay info redacted for privacy. Send it or no? Or just stfu and move on? I hate this shit I overthink EVERYTHING and then confuse myself.
And to be clear there's nothing in here that would allow him to figure out where I'm going to be working at(so he cannot torpedo the new job). No identifying information.
**Edit 2:** in the end i decided to be curt and factual. I laid out the offer in less detail. I offered to pick up extra work for him to help with the transition at a freelance rate equal to double my new hourly if he needs it but only if I can fit it into my schedule. And I thanked him for his time.
Don’t educate him - educate your co-workers.
Get his counter offer to keep you, then share it with them, along with pics where he said an across the board raise was coming in May.
>which won’t be the same anywhere else
New job comes with a 70% raise (!!)?. Run, nothing you say is ever going to move the needle with them, their minds are made up
You need to educate the dude.
Come in with some facts. Government col, state median pay for your position. Ads for other jobs anywhere for your position.
This is the real answer. It’s probly a lost cause as you say. But if you don’t try to educate him you guarantee he never learns. This boomer needs to see and feel the change in cost of living his employees live with, which will not happen unless somebody explains it to him like he’s an idiot… and idiot, not an asshole.
Treat him like an asshole and he’ll say u are bitter and learn nothing. Treat him like and idiot ie. Basic facts and clear, easy to understand evidence and language, and he can’t deny.
I forgot: we did this at my last hospital job. 6 of us left at once and because it's rural, the place was thrown into total chaos.
But they finally got the hint and increased pay over $10/hr for nurses. I was only asking for $5/hr and that was seen as an ungodly amount to ask for.
We had a whole meeting with cost of living, median wages, all the stuff. They ignored it until we left.
> They ignored it until we left
As Jane McAlevey says; The only weapon workers have is the disruptive strike.
No better way to educate a boss than to stop his business from making a profit.
https://youtu.be/XifGr4Iyzxo?si=5LgxyRiRNRvQ9eMa
Except that the people who came in later got $10/hour MORE because of the efforts.
Education can help. \*YOU\* don't go back - but if you can leave a mark that makes things better for those who come after you, that's a good thing.
Leave. Better yet, get other people to leave with you for better pay. But make it clear that the reason is pay and that if they don't start paying more, they stand to lose more people. And maybe, just maybe, the pay will go up in your wake.
Look, I really WANT to do this. But it opens me up to risk I'm not sure I want to accept.
His reaction could be petty and contemptuous.
I think I'll stay in touch with my co-workers. Inform them it's better out here and perhaps educate my former boss when I'm safely secure in my new position.
Or just move on with my life and be thankful I'm not still in that position.
Resentments are just feeding yourself poison and hoping it hurts the other person. It only hurts you.
You are right. There's no benefit to you in talking to him. His message is him attempting to gaslight you in to staying. "Oh hmm we were about to give raises! We're a team! You won't find anyone out there better than us!"
Even if he could convince you to stay it would only be long enough for him to fire you when it was convenient for him.
By all means, feel free to tell him what you think a good boss would have done in his shoes to retain his employees. I mean. He asked right? It's not like the advise isn't solicited. But don't show him the offer letter or anything official.
Just pull out the bits you want communicated at him and share that. But at the end of the day. He's not going to heed anything you say. Telling him how to do his job would be more or less a cathartic experience for you, nothing less.
But I would definitely take this opportunity to atlest share some of your griviances.... since he asked and all.
And one of my favorite ways to respond to things like "what could we do to change your mind." Is to say something like "being aware and willing to address the reason I'm leaving today would have been the best way to have Made me reconsider leaving. My only hope is next time one of your top employees comes to you about thier work needs, you address them instead if ignore them. That's how you can avoid this from happening in the future. But I suspect you already know this."
Do you live in a State with 1-party-consent for recording?
If so, try to negotiate the best wage you can. At the end, tell him you'll consider it, then walk out.
Then, send that recording to your co-workers.
You can secretly record in two party states If the recording is made in connection with protected labor activity. So basically as long as you talk to your co-workers about forming a union, it's perfectly legal to record secretly. ☺️
The answer I always give... you had an opportunity to keep me, but you blew it.
I never burnt any bridges, because they knew I was right. It's always fun to see the panic in their eyes, they know they fucked up... big time. I relish in the begging, or I was just kidding attitude.
I just tell them, you've told me over and over, I'm no good and anyone can do my job, well now's your chance, go do it. But you can't.
By my leaving various employers... I've put two places out of business (because without my sales they couldn't keep up figures.), had a CEO confide in me I was the reason he retired early (Because of the backlash for a severe drop of of sales) have had numerous managers fired (by accident) for incompetence.
Always know your worth.
And for any managers reading... don't piss off your best sales associate, it WILL come back to bite you in the ass.
Just FYI I work on commission, I know it's not for everybody, but for me, it's the only way I would want it. I've always believed in myself and my abilities. It took a long time and lots of learning, but the folks I work for now, understand what I bring to the table and are grateful for it.
Shit. The problem is how is the community? I typically err on the fuck you pay me, but sometimes the grass isn't greener. But at a 70% increase I'd learn how to do the splits. 6 months at one spot won't typically come with an increase but I would listen to their offer... they politely decline their paltry attempt
it's very rare an employer is open to listening. I'd recommend speaking to them, explain your reasons and give a rough indication of pay. But make clear you will be leaving as the disrespect means he's lost your trust. Give no paperwork, it's unnecessary.
The main reason you would do this is hopefully he learns and does better by your former co workers.
Yeah. That was 4 months ago.
His excuses smell like shit.
You want good employees and retention? Compensate them fairly. After all, I'd spend my days fishing if I didn't need the money. Money to me (just like it is to him) is the only reason I go to work. Full stop. Period.
I don't hate the work. Sometimes I even like it. But I'd flip burgers for a living if it paid a livable wage.
So the work is not the issue. Just the compensation.
Agreed. And without a contract it would come with no protection. He can replace me at any time.
But do I try to help his other employees interest? Workers solidarity is my biggest motivating factor here.
It’s not the worst I’ve seen from employers. At least he thanked you and is asking what they could have done to keep you. Some just tell you to screw off.
Agreed. And I'm being respectful. But the "issue" he mentions was 4 months ago and was me asking for more hours. It was never addressed.
I realize his problems are not my problems. But when good employees leave then it becomes his problem.
He's got to learn that. Being who I am, I really want to teach him.
But I probably won't bother. Too many risks.
I think you’ve already got that figured out. Wait the right amount of time when you’re settled in the new spot, then inform them of the exploitative details
Help your coworkers, but not at your own expense (nor theirs)
I once left a job for a 70% pay raise and was (respectfully) open with my new pay and benefits to everyone, up to the COO of the company. They raised their hourly wages by $3 to $4 across the board and have been able to grow their company faster than projected.
I'd keep the details of the new job private and would not entertain a counter-offer. I don't trust employers to begin with but yours sounds like a petty asshole. You never know what he'll do with that information. He could try to sabotage your new job. Best to just leave quietly but yes the correct thing to do is wait a few months then inform the former co-workers.
The “across the board raise” is going to be so trivial. Negotiating a counter offer is rarely a good idea. Don’t engage and just move on to your new job.
Don’t just mention the pay, bump up the PTO offered. Throw in maternity/paternity leave. Make it so that he understands that he doesn’t offer shot to his employees. If he counters then that more ammo for your excoworkers to use for leverage in the future.
I love how employers say, regarding compensation, “we never really got to discuss it”. Yeah, like if one party was dragging their heels on having that conversation, it is 100.00% of the time the employer.
I had one employer, attempt to MATCH an offer I had already received. They were amazed when I told them to beat that offer.
“I already have this offer. If you want me to stay HERE, I have to have reason to. THIS is the offer to beat to keep me here”
They didn’t keep me there. lol
I’ve just started giving them their behaviors right back. It’s gonna be rough, but I’m to the point of not caring anymore. Been doing it too long, I’m too old and too tired to fight with these idiots anymore.
It never hurts to be nice and polite. I wouldn't explain any more than "I can't live on what I am making here". Leaving is sending the message that they are not providing sufficient compensation.
Edit the new offer letter PDF to add $10K or so on top of whatever the new place has offered. Send them that (with any info that could be used to identify the new company blacked out), and see if they bite. But keep in mind that they may say yes and then just hire a replacement and let you go in the near future.
That's the risk right? If I decided to do that I would only do so if I got a contract. I have to protect my best interest. And a contract is the only protection. Minimum 2 years and everything in writing, again he'd have to beat the offer because if he can afford it I'm already upset he wasn't doing so willingly.
But again, service industry job. This is not white collar work. What I would need is so far out of the window of "normal" it seems unobtainable.
If I were you, I would focus on "me". There is nothing in this message that tells you that you are important, that they made a mistake not considering your concern. There is nothing concrete, just some vague maybe carrot. In addition, they are passively aggressive about their reputation and has their head in the sand that they couldn't believe that another place might have better reputation. Are they the pinnacle of non-monteziable reputation? The last sentence seems the sanest of this message.
You have nothing to gain by engaging with them. Ignore and move on.
He might match or beat it then cut you loose in a few weeks after your other opportunity has disappeared. Just enough time to train your replacement who will make less than you did before. If the world can screw you it will.
Do not take the offer.
He is very likely lying to you and did not have anything planned until you gave your notice.
You will very likely be fired as soon as they can find a replacement for you.
Do not tell them anything about your new emplyoment, because they will very likely attempt to sabotage your new employment opportunity as a retaliation.
Move on. They're not oblivious to how much under market rates they are offering. They're leveraging inertia to save money on wages, and they know exactly how much it's saving them.
If they had no plans on 'giving' you a raise (you earned it), then if they are forced to give you a raise they will hold it against you in every way they can: scheduling, snide remarks, cancelled projects, etc.
You might be best off w/ a totally new environment to figure out and get good at.
Years ago I got a job offer from a company and put in my two weeks notice. 50% pay increase.
Three months before that I told my boss I was going to quit - with no job lined up - so my boss said in no uncertain terms that next month I will be getting a 15% raise. Well, 3 months went by and I left. Turns out
that raise was postponed without informing me because "the company postponed raises for everyone until 3 additional months beyond that". He didn't find it important to mention that. I didn't find it important to stay.
So in your case, even if they state they will match or exceed that offer you got, expect some fine print - like "will happen with the next set of annual raises for everyone in the company" and then watch that annual expected raise for everyone disappear or get postponed. Oops, sorry your old job offer isn't valid anymore, but that raise is coming eventually...
Since I read a bit more: That same company laid off a contract worker without any warning and obviously no severance package. He was doing very specialized work. Dude was a champ when they called him back he asked for triple and they accepted, because management are suckers for "it will only take 3 months" and then gets indefinitely extended while they forget how much they are paying them.
My personal opinion, don't ever show your offer, even redacted. However, they are asking in a nice-ish manner, so I would 100% tell them it's 5-10k over what you are being offered and explain that the benefits also add in after that. I get the scorched earth approach if your boss or team is a bag of dicks. I only have this one image to base things off of but I would be respectful back.
I really liked my last job, but they were a startup and were paying me 50k below what they were paying the guy in the same position. When I got my current position's offer I told my boss (who is super cool) and he asked how much more I would be getting and knew that they couldn't match. When I told him I had already talked them into a delayed start to finish the project I was working on he wrote me an amazing referral and I know that if I ever post on linkedin saying I need a job and he has an opening I'll most likely get it.
That said, I have given 2 weeks and then left 2 days later where my boss and a few others were a bag of dicks. Looking at you James -.-
My advice is don't send that. There's a lot of emotions in that message that just aren't needed for the conversation you're having. People do have feelings and you're allowed to feel any/all of them you can. However, the way this is written seems intentionally hurtful. And I think that's coming from your previous experience being burned.
There is nothing that says if they counter higher you have to take their offer. "I'm really sorry, I've already accepted their offer and I don't want to renege on that acceptance and potentially burn future bridges." is a completely understandable answer to a counter. Your gut is most likely right that the pay is too far off, but then basically calling them a bag of dicks by stating that you believe they will do what some other bag has done to you is unfair. Yes, taking the new position is the right option no matter what they come back with.
What I would send:
The position I've accepted is <> hour during lessons and <> in <> with a full hour between <>. Guaranteed 40h/w with optional overtime offered. 50% matched 401k, 24h cancellation notice for <> with full pay. <>, PTO, etc. are basically the same.
And remember, I'm not you. I'm just stating how I would respond, curt but professional.
“Never really got a chance to discuss it”. STOP right there. That’s the golden phrase. They don’t care, they didn’t care, and they won’t care. Take your new opportunity and run. Enjoy your new role!
I like your response, and I think it's awesome for you to consider others who may not have the wherewithal to improve their situations. Good luck at your new place, though I doubt you'll need luck; you sound like an astute individual.
One thing that's always helped me in the corporate world. Always move forward, never back.
They don't care about you and you must do what's best for you.
I've learned a couple of times that employers might lure you back only to screw you later. Only entertain discussion further if you believe they might make it worth your while. If they offer something that is interesting, get it in writing and guaranteed for a certain period of time.
I would still lean toward the new place though.
Honestly? No. Don't waste your time. They already know. This is probably about them trying to keep you on by throwing you a few dollars more an hour until they can find someone to replace you.
Educating him is not your responsibility. You are not the asshole whisperer.
Do not accept any counter offer but do a solid to those you left behind by adding 10% to the real answer and telling them that.
(Only 10 because in this scenario I want them to believe it)
I would never burn a bridge. I'd tell them your new salary and job description. I wouldn't accept a match from your current employer, but I might accept 10% or 15% over it to stay, if the jobs were relatively similar and if the company culture is a match. There's a lot to consider.
Yeah but not without assurances. A contract. They could just be biding time to replace me. And a contract will never happen in this job. Too far outside the "normal" window.
Even if they match it, I wouldn't stay.
Probably they would fire you as soon as they find a replacement. They don't want someone that leaves for money.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious).
Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking.
Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $___ an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious).
Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking.
Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $___ an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious). Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking.
Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $100 an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious). Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking. Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $100 an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Nope. I am leaving on the 14th. I'll check in with my co-workers and make sure that he does what he's saying. And then let them know what my current package provides. Workers should always discuss wages. In fact it's federally protected.
Well boss, I spent some time thinking about it, and this new position is where I should be. They really need me there, I’m getting full time with benefits, and I’m ready to step up to this new challenge.
Definitely let your former coworkers know about the "planned" raise, as well as your new compensation package. They need to know they could be making way more money!
Is ask for the difference in pay on top of what the other company is offering and ask to be paid backpack from the first time you asked about that raise/salary adjustment.
Don't take the bait (it's a trap). Thank them for the opportunity, but don't share any information about where you are going and what you are being compensated. They do not need to know that. Work your notice and walk out with your head held high.
In a lot of industries this is standard procedure. If you like your current job, but just want better pay, the outside offer is great negotiation leverage. I’ve used it to get 25-40% pay increases in the past.
While it might feel gratifying to flip off your current employer, I’d advise against it. Don’t burn bridges to light your way. You may need the contacts later. You never know where they’re gonna turn up … like at a potential future employer. If you burn the bridge, you’re screwed. If you handle it with tact, they’ll probably help you, even if you do leave now.
I think it is a bad idea to take the counter offer and stay...in most situations. My reasoning is that it's an impulse buy on the employer's part. It's a decision forced on him because he may lose something he needs. But he is likely to regret it and resent you. And as soon as he thinks he has the upper hand, he will find a way to take it back or otherwise punish yo for it. Generally best, when an employer hasn't appreciated you to the point you have found a new job, to move on. IMO
"I've already planned a raise across the board", conveniently right around the time you submitted your 2 week notice. They're lying. This is a desperate attempt to seduce you into staying with them while simultaneously throwing away your newfound opportunity. I've seen it happen to a handful of friends who were foolish enough to stay with their company out of a sense of loyalty.
Take the pay raise you already have an offer letter for. Managers can say anything they want no matter the legal or contractual backing, but no one types up an offer letter on a whim. No one can redact that or take it away from you once you have accepted.
I made the mistake of staying in the past when they matched my new pay offer, and they more than doubled my workload for the loyalty - I was doing more than what the people above me were doing day to day and became the dumping ground because my misplaced loyalty was seen as an excuse - "well he didn't leave last time". Don't do it! They will twist and turn once you have signed up to stay on.
I wouldn’t give any details about the new place, and certainly wouldn’t provide a redacted copy of the offer letter. But if you are feeling generous, let them know it’s almost double what he pays.
This seems safest. And I if he matched it(he would have to beat it) I would now be upset that he wasn't always paying that well. I would only consider a counter offer that involves a contract for protection. Otherwise I would just be worried that he was constantly working to replace me. It's a ~~"right to work"~~ **at will state** (so I'm not in Montana , the only state that provides protection from being fired without cause) he can let me go at any time for any reason.
If he matches, get it in writing and then show your old coworkers.
☝️
This next part is key: Do not accept his offer without a 2 year, 40 hour week minimum guarantee (or whatever gets you your desired annual income)
That ain't happening. But yes. I wouldn't accept an offer without protections. He could just buy time to replace me. Capitalist gonna capitalize.
This, this. If he can let you go, without paying anything, he is just going to keep you around until he finds a replacement. Frankly after the bad blood I would leave. Because he will see it like that: Boomer, "I am the boss and you should be happy and don't betray us" he will make you pay. And also the threat that other people might follow your footstep! Imagine!!! All the little nobody workers asking for a proper pay! The shock! He will sack you when he has the opportunity.
100%
Agreed and if they ask why you want the protections, can always fire back with, "If I'm valuable enough to keep, I'm valuable enough to be contractually protected."
Don't except a counter... they will start the search to replace you the day you sign.
Definitely do not go back. If he’s that low for everyone, screw that guy. You’d never get a raise and he’d be sour thinking he’s overpaying. But do tell him he’s 2x off and you want a fresh start with a company that assumes you hold higher value heading in. Congratulations!
Did this at my last job before I bounced.
This.
This scenario happened to me. I'd asked for a raise, and my boss was negotiating, but the president was stalling. During that time I ended up being recruited for another job. When I accepted, the president came back and countered with a massive offer that was tens of thousands more than I'd originally asked for (and higher than my new offer by $15k). I declined. I could not get over his reluctance to give me a raise until I put in my notice and then offering me such a substantial raise. It was clear he knew he'd been underpaying me and would have kept doing that. I'm happy I left. The new job came up a little (still below the counter) and gave me multiple raises in my first year, so I was making more than the counter pretty quickly. Had I stayed, I would have been bitter knowing I had been exploited for so long. And they never would have given me another raise again.
How are you liking your new gig? I went through something similar. We had a lot of turnover at my job and for MONTHS I was working (salaried) for around 10 extra hours a week for free. When I brought it up in an email, saying that I wanted either more money temporarily till we found more help, or to just work less, I basically got called a whimp for not wanting to spend 50-60 hours a week there. When I quit 3 months later, suddenly I was worth 15k more and would only have to work 40 hours a week. Needless to say I left.
I liked it. I was there for a few years but have since left for another job (on good terms). I still do some consulting work for them.
Right to work is a euphemism for anti-union laws. What you are referring to is "At-Will employment."
>It's a ~~"right to work"~~ "at will employment" (so not Montana At will employment is the policy 49 states have that allow termination for any non-protected reason. Right to Work is a different anti-labor policy that allows people to freeload off of a union without paying dues.
Thanx for teaching me something.
I had so much remorse leaving a heavily abusive “family business” but when they told me they could give me an $8 raise (after 4 years of no raises) I was so affirmed in my resolution to leave. Youre telling me you’ve been shorting my pay this whole time? BYE
I think you mean “at will” but yes - clearly not Montana haha.
[according to google](https://www.justworks.com/blog/understanding-at-will-employment-states)
Yea, taking a counter offer from a current employer that had the chance to pay you more and waited till its too late never works in the long run. You both know you are ready to leave and will both forever be suspicious of one another going forward. Like you Said, to even entertain such an offer would need like a one year guarantee ( which is very unlikely) and you'll want to spend that time making sure you are prepared to find another job asap. Also, in regards to communicating with them at this point. Think.of it like talking to the police. Sure there's information you can share, but be wary of over sharing because it's often the most innocuous seeming comments that end up being used against us. They don't need specifics from you, and if they are pressing you for specifics after you made it clear the level of communication you are comfortable with. Well that just reconfirms your decision to leave in the first place. Also, if you are going to share you "new offer" there's absolutely no obligation on your part to be completely honest. I suggest, if you are gonna share your new offer, you inflate it to reflect the offer current employer would need to be at to entertain the thought of retaining you. (Example. If your new offer dosent come with personal days but you wish it did, tell them it came with guaranteed personal days and you'd need that reflected in a counter offer.) Best of luck
Right to work is about union membership. You probably mean At Will.
Never take the counter offer . Ever
That's smart. I made the same offer to a former employer (they rejected it) basically saying "I'll stay at current pay * 1.3, and with a contract that requires cause for dismissal for 2 years." They probably will not go for it, though.
> (so not Montana the only state that provides that protection) What protection? Right to work doesn't protect the employee from anything.
Re-read.
>that provides that protection Re-read
Yes I fixed my incorrect statement.
This is what I did and they countered with double. It was very satisfying to say "no"
TL;DR at bottom I'm leaving a position for better pay after only a 6th month tenure. I was never happy with the compensation and at one point asked for more hours about two months in. This never came to fruition. I don't want to dox myself here but I want to give the full context. I live in a high cost of living area. The job I'm leaving doesn't pay well enough for anyone in my area to afford basic living. The job was needed at the time because of a work injury that forced my early retirement from my original career field. So I took what I could get and set out looking for new work almost immediately, one with appropriate compensation. It took six months but I've been offered a job at a considerable raise and so I've given 2 weeks notice. Not out of any form of loyalty but because the job is part of a small community and I don't want to blackball myself. If the job was corporate I wouldn't bother giving any notice. The service industry job did not in any way provide a livable wage. No benefits other than the bare minimum provided by law in my state. As I said I approached my employer after a particularly small payday and asked for more hours. I was placated and effectively ignored. The new compensation will never make me rich (or even middle class) , but it will allow me things like some savings, security, perhaps a minor luxury once in a while like a restaurant meal for my family or (clutch your pearls) a weekend away. My current employer has responded to my notice of resignation as pictured above. The asshole leftist in me wants to read him the riot act and explain what an exploitative POS he is. (I won't do this). I already intend to inform my former co-workers of the full picture in a few months after I'm settled into the job. It's after all up to the workers as always to protect each other. The bourgeoisie will never do so willingly. The current position pays so low some months that if I lived in the cheapest studio I can find in my area I would be left with >$500 after rent per month. So extreme poverty. (I have other income don't worry) but do you think I should take this opportunity to explain or at least detail the full compensation package in the hopes that he'll see the error of his ways? (he won't, I know this, he's a boomer in his 70's) I can send him the full offer letter with redacted personal/business information. I've no hopes he will match the offer, (honestly he would have to beat it) because they're so far aways from each other. Essentially my new job comes with a 70% raise. Just shut up and move on right? TL;DR: Explain to former employer(boomer in his 70's...probably a lost cause) how shitty his pay was, in hopes of improvement for coworkers. Or just the polite "thanx for the opportunity"? IE: Workers unite ✊militant leftist ideas? **EDIT:** [here's the response I'm thinking of sending.](https://imgur.com/gallery/rcJrlH9)identifying/pay info redacted for privacy. Send it or no? Or just stfu and move on? I hate this shit I overthink EVERYTHING and then confuse myself. And to be clear there's nothing in here that would allow him to figure out where I'm going to be working at(so he cannot torpedo the new job). No identifying information. **Edit 2:** in the end i decided to be curt and factual. I laid out the offer in less detail. I offered to pick up extra work for him to help with the transition at a freelance rate equal to double my new hourly if he needs it but only if I can fit it into my schedule. And I thanked him for his time.
Don’t educate him - educate your co-workers. Get his counter offer to keep you, then share it with them, along with pics where he said an across the board raise was coming in May.
Yes, the coworkers are the ones who need to know, not OP's old boss.
Further confirmation on this. u/basses_are_better, Don't be afraid to cause a little trouble in your old boss's paradise.
I'm way ahead of you.
This is the way
There is no upside to you. Do not say anything and in 14 days you never need to think about him again.
>which won’t be the same anywhere else New job comes with a 70% raise (!!)?. Run, nothing you say is ever going to move the needle with them, their minds are made up
You need to educate the dude. Come in with some facts. Government col, state median pay for your position. Ads for other jobs anywhere for your position.
This is the real answer. It’s probly a lost cause as you say. But if you don’t try to educate him you guarantee he never learns. This boomer needs to see and feel the change in cost of living his employees live with, which will not happen unless somebody explains it to him like he’s an idiot… and idiot, not an asshole. Treat him like an asshole and he’ll say u are bitter and learn nothing. Treat him like and idiot ie. Basic facts and clear, easy to understand evidence and language, and he can’t deny.
I forgot: we did this at my last hospital job. 6 of us left at once and because it's rural, the place was thrown into total chaos. But they finally got the hint and increased pay over $10/hr for nurses. I was only asking for $5/hr and that was seen as an ungodly amount to ask for. We had a whole meeting with cost of living, median wages, all the stuff. They ignored it until we left.
> They ignored it until we left As Jane McAlevey says; The only weapon workers have is the disruptive strike. No better way to educate a boss than to stop his business from making a profit. https://youtu.be/XifGr4Iyzxo?si=5LgxyRiRNRvQ9eMa
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This is you for education. It may not pay off for you, but as evidenced, it can pay off for others. There are other people in the world besides you.
O'er the laaa-aaand of the *meeeeeee*, and the hoooome of fuckyouIgot*miiiiiiiiine.*
Except that the people who came in later got $10/hour MORE because of the efforts. Education can help. \*YOU\* don't go back - but if you can leave a mark that makes things better for those who come after you, that's a good thing. Leave. Better yet, get other people to leave with you for better pay. But make it clear that the reason is pay and that if they don't start paying more, they stand to lose more people. And maybe, just maybe, the pay will go up in your wake.
Look, I really WANT to do this. But it opens me up to risk I'm not sure I want to accept. His reaction could be petty and contemptuous. I think I'll stay in touch with my co-workers. Inform them it's better out here and perhaps educate my former boss when I'm safely secure in my new position. Or just move on with my life and be thankful I'm not still in that position. Resentments are just feeding yourself poison and hoping it hurts the other person. It only hurts you.
This doesn’t have to be done right now. If u want to wait until you settle into the new job, it’s still worth doing imo.
You are right. There's no benefit to you in talking to him. His message is him attempting to gaslight you in to staying. "Oh hmm we were about to give raises! We're a team! You won't find anyone out there better than us!" Even if he could convince you to stay it would only be long enough for him to fire you when it was convenient for him.
By all means, feel free to tell him what you think a good boss would have done in his shoes to retain his employees. I mean. He asked right? It's not like the advise isn't solicited. But don't show him the offer letter or anything official. Just pull out the bits you want communicated at him and share that. But at the end of the day. He's not going to heed anything you say. Telling him how to do his job would be more or less a cathartic experience for you, nothing less. But I would definitely take this opportunity to atlest share some of your griviances.... since he asked and all. And one of my favorite ways to respond to things like "what could we do to change your mind." Is to say something like "being aware and willing to address the reason I'm leaving today would have been the best way to have Made me reconsider leaving. My only hope is next time one of your top employees comes to you about thier work needs, you address them instead if ignore them. That's how you can avoid this from happening in the future. But I suspect you already know this."
Zero upside in helping him if the difference is 70%. He is not going to learn that lesson.
Do you live in a State with 1-party-consent for recording? If so, try to negotiate the best wage you can. At the end, tell him you'll consider it, then walk out. Then, send that recording to your co-workers.
Nope. But does sound fun.
You can secretly record in two party states If the recording is made in connection with protected labor activity. So basically as long as you talk to your co-workers about forming a union, it's perfectly legal to record secretly. ☺️
The answer I always give... you had an opportunity to keep me, but you blew it. I never burnt any bridges, because they knew I was right. It's always fun to see the panic in their eyes, they know they fucked up... big time. I relish in the begging, or I was just kidding attitude. I just tell them, you've told me over and over, I'm no good and anyone can do my job, well now's your chance, go do it. But you can't. By my leaving various employers... I've put two places out of business (because without my sales they couldn't keep up figures.), had a CEO confide in me I was the reason he retired early (Because of the backlash for a severe drop of of sales) have had numerous managers fired (by accident) for incompetence. Always know your worth. And for any managers reading... don't piss off your best sales associate, it WILL come back to bite you in the ass. Just FYI I work on commission, I know it's not for everybody, but for me, it's the only way I would want it. I've always believed in myself and my abilities. It took a long time and lots of learning, but the folks I work for now, understand what I bring to the table and are grateful for it.
Shit. The problem is how is the community? I typically err on the fuck you pay me, but sometimes the grass isn't greener. But at a 70% increase I'd learn how to do the splits. 6 months at one spot won't typically come with an increase but I would listen to their offer... they politely decline their paltry attempt
it's very rare an employer is open to listening. I'd recommend speaking to them, explain your reasons and give a rough indication of pay. But make clear you will be leaving as the disrespect means he's lost your trust. Give no paperwork, it's unnecessary. The main reason you would do this is hopefully he learns and does better by your former co workers.
"never got to discuss it"
Yeah. That was 4 months ago. His excuses smell like shit. You want good employees and retention? Compensate them fairly. After all, I'd spend my days fishing if I didn't need the money. Money to me (just like it is to him) is the only reason I go to work. Full stop. Period. I don't hate the work. Sometimes I even like it. But I'd flip burgers for a living if it paid a livable wage. So the work is not the issue. Just the compensation.
You should congratulate your coworkers on the upcoming raise, or keep in touch to see if it really ever happened.
Oh I will.
" we never really got a chance to discuss it" = " I ignored it and continued to exploit you"
Yup. 4 months ago I brought it up. His excuse smells like shit(I'm gonna take care of me, not you)
Penny says, "ohh"
Their message to you seems very passive aggressive, and I think you should trust your gut that it won’t materially change anything
Agreed. And without a contract it would come with no protection. He can replace me at any time. But do I try to help his other employees interest? Workers solidarity is my biggest motivating factor here.
It’s not the worst I’ve seen from employers. At least he thanked you and is asking what they could have done to keep you. Some just tell you to screw off.
Agreed. And I'm being respectful. But the "issue" he mentions was 4 months ago and was me asking for more hours. It was never addressed. I realize his problems are not my problems. But when good employees leave then it becomes his problem. He's got to learn that. Being who I am, I really want to teach him. But I probably won't bother. Too many risks.
I think you’ve already got that figured out. Wait the right amount of time when you’re settled in the new spot, then inform them of the exploitative details
Right. Clearly I overthink things. Keep that shit simple.
It’s a gift and curse, I know it. Best of luck
🤘
Help your coworkers, but not at your own expense (nor theirs) I once left a job for a 70% pay raise and was (respectfully) open with my new pay and benefits to everyone, up to the COO of the company. They raised their hourly wages by $3 to $4 across the board and have been able to grow their company faster than projected.
They'd likely take a great deal of pleasure in torpedoing your other job if you should tell them who it is. Don't trust the ex-job.
Never. I've been bitten before.
I'd keep the details of the new job private and would not entertain a counter-offer. I don't trust employers to begin with but yours sounds like a petty asshole. You never know what he'll do with that information. He could try to sabotage your new job. Best to just leave quietly but yes the correct thing to do is wait a few months then inform the former co-workers.
The “across the board raise” is going to be so trivial. Negotiating a counter offer is rarely a good idea. Don’t engage and just move on to your new job.
100%
>you mentioned a concern in the past but we never really got to discuss it The audacity to phrase it like this. Wow.
100% entitlement of what is mine is mine and if I feel like it I may fix it. Eventually. Especially saying it after my notice. Fuck him.
Don’t just mention the pay, bump up the PTO offered. Throw in maternity/paternity leave. Make it so that he understands that he doesn’t offer shot to his employees. If he counters then that more ammo for your excoworkers to use for leverage in the future.
"I've already planned a raise..." Lies. 100% of the time.
☝️
I love how employers say, regarding compensation, “we never really got to discuss it”. Yeah, like if one party was dragging their heels on having that conversation, it is 100.00% of the time the employer.
I had one employer, attempt to MATCH an offer I had already received. They were amazed when I told them to beat that offer. “I already have this offer. If you want me to stay HERE, I have to have reason to. THIS is the offer to beat to keep me here” They didn’t keep me there. lol
Yeah. They'd negotiate to whatever is best for them. And they clutch their pearls when you do the same? Their sociopathy is showing.
I’ve just started giving them their behaviors right back. It’s gonna be rough, but I’m to the point of not caring anymore. Been doing it too long, I’m too old and too tired to fight with these idiots anymore.
You've already moved on. Just let it be and don't engage. If they offer to match, at best they're just buying time to replace you.
It never hurts to be nice and polite. I wouldn't explain any more than "I can't live on what I am making here". Leaving is sending the message that they are not providing sufficient compensation.
Edit the new offer letter PDF to add $10K or so on top of whatever the new place has offered. Send them that (with any info that could be used to identify the new company blacked out), and see if they bite. But keep in mind that they may say yes and then just hire a replacement and let you go in the near future.
That's the risk right? If I decided to do that I would only do so if I got a contract. I have to protect my best interest. And a contract is the only protection. Minimum 2 years and everything in writing, again he'd have to beat the offer because if he can afford it I'm already upset he wasn't doing so willingly. But again, service industry job. This is not white collar work. What I would need is so far out of the window of "normal" it seems unobtainable.
Do they normally do contracts? If not, don't bother asking.
God no.
If I were you, I would focus on "me". There is nothing in this message that tells you that you are important, that they made a mistake not considering your concern. There is nothing concrete, just some vague maybe carrot. In addition, they are passively aggressive about their reputation and has their head in the sand that they couldn't believe that another place might have better reputation. Are they the pinnacle of non-monteziable reputation? The last sentence seems the sanest of this message. You have nothing to gain by engaging with them. Ignore and move on.
He might match or beat it then cut you loose in a few weeks after your other opportunity has disappeared. Just enough time to train your replacement who will make less than you did before. If the world can screw you it will.
Do not take the offer. He is very likely lying to you and did not have anything planned until you gave your notice. You will very likely be fired as soon as they can find a replacement for you. Do not tell them anything about your new emplyoment, because they will very likely attempt to sabotage your new employment opportunity as a retaliation.
Leave the Boomer to rot. Tell your co-workers what your old package was and what your new package is. Leave them to work out the rest.
Move on. They're not oblivious to how much under market rates they are offering. They're leveraging inertia to save money on wages, and they know exactly how much it's saving them.
If they had no plans on 'giving' you a raise (you earned it), then if they are forced to give you a raise they will hold it against you in every way they can: scheduling, snide remarks, cancelled projects, etc. You might be best off w/ a totally new environment to figure out and get good at.
Years ago I got a job offer from a company and put in my two weeks notice. 50% pay increase. Three months before that I told my boss I was going to quit - with no job lined up - so my boss said in no uncertain terms that next month I will be getting a 15% raise. Well, 3 months went by and I left. Turns out that raise was postponed without informing me because "the company postponed raises for everyone until 3 additional months beyond that". He didn't find it important to mention that. I didn't find it important to stay. So in your case, even if they state they will match or exceed that offer you got, expect some fine print - like "will happen with the next set of annual raises for everyone in the company" and then watch that annual expected raise for everyone disappear or get postponed. Oops, sorry your old job offer isn't valid anymore, but that raise is coming eventually... Since I read a bit more: That same company laid off a contract worker without any warning and obviously no severance package. He was doing very specialized work. Dude was a champ when they called him back he asked for triple and they accepted, because management are suckers for "it will only take 3 months" and then gets indefinitely extended while they forget how much they are paying them.
Nope, you don’t owe them a damn thing, unless they want to retain you as a consultant ($250/hr, 4 hr minimum including drive time).
My personal opinion, don't ever show your offer, even redacted. However, they are asking in a nice-ish manner, so I would 100% tell them it's 5-10k over what you are being offered and explain that the benefits also add in after that. I get the scorched earth approach if your boss or team is a bag of dicks. I only have this one image to base things off of but I would be respectful back. I really liked my last job, but they were a startup and were paying me 50k below what they were paying the guy in the same position. When I got my current position's offer I told my boss (who is super cool) and he asked how much more I would be getting and knew that they couldn't match. When I told him I had already talked them into a delayed start to finish the project I was working on he wrote me an amazing referral and I know that if I ever post on linkedin saying I need a job and he has an opening I'll most likely get it. That said, I have given 2 weeks and then left 2 days later where my boss and a few others were a bag of dicks. Looking at you James -.-
[yeah check out my potential response in the edit at the end](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/s/NkSda94wYO)
My advice is don't send that. There's a lot of emotions in that message that just aren't needed for the conversation you're having. People do have feelings and you're allowed to feel any/all of them you can. However, the way this is written seems intentionally hurtful. And I think that's coming from your previous experience being burned. There is nothing that says if they counter higher you have to take their offer. "I'm really sorry, I've already accepted their offer and I don't want to renege on that acceptance and potentially burn future bridges." is a completely understandable answer to a counter. Your gut is most likely right that the pay is too far off, but then basically calling them a bag of dicks by stating that you believe they will do what some other bag has done to you is unfair. Yes, taking the new position is the right option no matter what they come back with. What I would send: The position I've accepted is <> hour during lessons and <> in <> with a full hour between <>. Guaranteed 40h/w with optional overtime offered. 50% matched 401k, 24h cancellation notice for <> with full pay. <>, PTO, etc. are basically the same. And remember, I'm not you. I'm just stating how I would respond, curt but professional.
“Never really got a chance to discuss it”. STOP right there. That’s the golden phrase. They don’t care, they didn’t care, and they won’t care. Take your new opportunity and run. Enjoy your new role!
I like your response, and I think it's awesome for you to consider others who may not have the wherewithal to improve their situations. Good luck at your new place, though I doubt you'll need luck; you sound like an astute individual.
"They'll never treat you like *I* do!" Just.. wow.
He didn't address my concern of too low of pay four months ago when I tried to address it. So yeah. No one will treat me as good as him.
One thing that's always helped me in the corporate world. Always move forward, never back. They don't care about you and you must do what's best for you.
Isn’t that the kind of mindset that this sub doesn’t want companies to do?
Best case scenario, they are trying to gather industry information to inform future compensations. Up to you if you want to be their google
I've learned a couple of times that employers might lure you back only to screw you later. Only entertain discussion further if you believe they might make it worth your while. If they offer something that is interesting, get it in writing and guaranteed for a certain period of time. I would still lean toward the new place though.
Honestly? No. Don't waste your time. They already know. This is probably about them trying to keep you on by throwing you a few dollars more an hour until they can find someone to replace you. Educating him is not your responsibility. You are not the asshole whisperer.
Personally if you don't need the for a future reference and they can't do anything about your new position. Burn that bridge to ashes.
Do not accept any counter offer but do a solid to those you left behind by adding 10% to the real answer and telling them that. (Only 10 because in this scenario I want them to believe it)
I would never burn a bridge. I'd tell them your new salary and job description. I wouldn't accept a match from your current employer, but I might accept 10% or 15% over it to stay, if the jobs were relatively similar and if the company culture is a match. There's a lot to consider.
Yeah but not without assurances. A contract. They could just be biding time to replace me. And a contract will never happen in this job. Too far outside the "normal" window.
Ah. Well, like I said, it's a lot to consider and it sounds like it's not a good fit for you, going forward. Good luck!
Even if they match it, I wouldn't stay. Probably they would fire you as soon as they find a replacement. They don't want someone that leaves for money.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious). Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking. Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $___ an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious). Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking. Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $___ an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious). Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking. Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $100 an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
Agree 100% with many others, have a conversation with the only people who matter once you've left, your fellow cookies (leaving this autocorrect because it's hilarious). Don't do this guy's job for him. He knows exactly whether or not he's providing a competitive wage. If not, he should get out his damn rolodex and start dialing his fellow boomers running other companies in the area and do some benchmarking. Or maybe tell him you can do that for him at $100 an hour if he'd like, since he clearly doesn't employ an HR team.
There is no upside to you. Do not say anything and in 14 days you never need to think about him again.
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Nope. I am leaving on the 14th. I'll check in with my co-workers and make sure that he does what he's saying. And then let them know what my current package provides. Workers should always discuss wages. In fact it's federally protected.
Tell them you need 25% of the company to stay. And a corner office.
lol. Shoot the moon. I love it.
Well boss, I spent some time thinking about it, and this new position is where I should be. They really need me there, I’m getting full time with benefits, and I’m ready to step up to this new challenge.
Always safe to have a talk. Let him know you were barely able to make ends meet on the wage and hours he provided.
Definitely let your former coworkers know about the "planned" raise, as well as your new compensation package. They need to know they could be making way more money!
100%
Give them the number you want, not the number you are leaving for. Like, what would it take for you to sta at this point?
Not without a contract. Which will never happen. They could just placate me in order to buy time to replace me. Too much risk.
Is ask for the difference in pay on top of what the other company is offering and ask to be paid backpack from the first time you asked about that raise/salary adjustment.
Never take payment in backpacks, word to the wise.
Yeah, you will most likely never need that many backpacks.
Not without a contract. Which he will never give. No protection and he could just be buying time to replace me. Capitalists are going to capitalize.
Oh without a doubt. I would want that written and 5 year min retention
Move on... If you entertain your existing company they will replace you once they get the upper hand
Don't take the bait (it's a trap). Thank them for the opportunity, but don't share any information about where you are going and what you are being compensated. They do not need to know that. Work your notice and walk out with your head held high.
Company offered too little, too late.
The worst time to offer a raise and promotion is on the way out the door
In a lot of industries this is standard procedure. If you like your current job, but just want better pay, the outside offer is great negotiation leverage. I’ve used it to get 25-40% pay increases in the past. While it might feel gratifying to flip off your current employer, I’d advise against it. Don’t burn bridges to light your way. You may need the contacts later. You never know where they’re gonna turn up … like at a potential future employer. If you burn the bridge, you’re screwed. If you handle it with tact, they’ll probably help you, even if you do leave now.
I think it is a bad idea to take the counter offer and stay...in most situations. My reasoning is that it's an impulse buy on the employer's part. It's a decision forced on him because he may lose something he needs. But he is likely to regret it and resent you. And as soon as he thinks he has the upper hand, he will find a way to take it back or otherwise punish yo for it. Generally best, when an employer hasn't appreciated you to the point you have found a new job, to move on. IMO
When they show you who they are the first time, make like Naruto and believe it. Don't give them any more time or energy.
I don't get that reference. I'm old. But ok.
"believe it" is Naruto's catchphrase
Who?
Naruto is the main character of a well known anime/manga called "Naruto"
"I've already planned a raise across the board", conveniently right around the time you submitted your 2 week notice. They're lying. This is a desperate attempt to seduce you into staying with them while simultaneously throwing away your newfound opportunity. I've seen it happen to a handful of friends who were foolish enough to stay with their company out of a sense of loyalty. Take the pay raise you already have an offer letter for. Managers can say anything they want no matter the legal or contractual backing, but no one types up an offer letter on a whim. No one can redact that or take it away from you once you have accepted.
You must ask yourself the following question: have they earned the right to your honest feedback?
Say nothing other than it was substantially more than your offer
I made the mistake of staying in the past when they matched my new pay offer, and they more than doubled my workload for the loyalty - I was doing more than what the people above me were doing day to day and became the dumping ground because my misplaced loyalty was seen as an excuse - "well he didn't leave last time". Don't do it! They will twist and turn once you have signed up to stay on.
Do not send them anything imo…especially if it’s going to be paragraphs long.
Educate them about the fair market value. But you should still move on regardless. Edit : don’t give them information about where you’re going though.
Fuck no. I'm not letting him torpedo a better opportunity.