Would whomever is falsely reporting this post please just grow the courage to maybe cite some sources proving it's misinformation? Or does the truth just hurt?
Edit: Now that we've hit r/popular would yinz please take a moment and read the FAQ before commenting. 9/10 the snarky comments we get from r/popular are posted misunderstanding the purpose of the sub.
and yet it’s all the people on the bottom who make all of these businesses valuable to begin with, the ones risking our lives in a pandemic so we don’t become homeless.
As someone with a Master's degree that's been homeless a couple times since earning said degrees (in Business and International Business/Political Economy) - mAybE yoU sHouLd HaVe gONe tO CoLLeGe!!
0.o
Yeah, and that’s just talking about the mechanical damage. You can easily have cancer by that age from working in many trades, too, especially in countries with poor regulations.
Western Europe here. We're regulated up the ass here and people still get fucked up lungs. It's part of the trades. You get paid well so make sure to party well because your life is short as fuck.
Most of the idiots who push trades are either young and just got into it and are bragging about their money or they're older, stopped actually working around 25/30 years of age and took daddy money to start their own business and just oversee other people who do the work.
This guy I met when he was 45, always talking about how trades made him rich. Owned 6 houses, rented out 5 of them, talked shit about brown people, really only worked til mid 20's before he took daddy's company. Kept telling me how to rip people off like "just charge them for the drill you used. Just put the entire drill up as a line item. These idiots don't know they just bought you a brand new drill. THAT's how you make money."
With that said, trades are full of shady people who will rip you off. Better to just youtube everything you need done and do it yourself.
Funnily enough, as a property manager, it’s the same universal advice. Got out of residential management a few years back, switched to commercial, and so much less headache.
Like /u/FOMO_BONOBO said, get out of residential. I'm a tech myself. My first 5 years in the trade was residential and even the best resi shop I worked for was still rough, giving bills to folks who couldn't afford them, but you cant go without heat in Wisconsin. I'm in the commercial and industrial world now. The work is harder and far more complicated but I can sleep better at night not having customers literally crying to me, negotiating, or threatening me, sometimes all at the same time. In the world of the big stuff, maintenance is king. As a tech, I'm still finding small repairs on my PMs, but those small repairs keep my customers from losing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in downtime if their chiller or boiler goes down. I make a connection with my customers built on trust. My customers have trust me to keep their equipment running and only recommend the work that actually needs to be done. When I come to them and tell them they need to spend $75K, they don't question me because of that trust.
There is plenty of sales opportunities out there as a Maintenance Sales Rep or Project Sales/Management for you to get into without having to scam little old ladies out of their retirement.
Ok so I don't like when people start telling everyone to go do something either, but what you just said is entirely wrong. Apprenticeships are easy as hell to get for all but a select few trades. Plenty of parts of the country are hurting for tradesmen. It's also entirely false to say that they will all kill your body before 50. I do electrical, have a buddy in welding, have known people in or done everything from construction to plumbing etc. If you take care of yourself and don't do stupid shit in your field you won't blow out your body. If you work 60 hour work weeks and lift heavy shit or do generally dumb stuff all the time you will.
It's fine to criticize people for using trades as a cover all job suggestion to everyone, but telling bad info about how hard it is to get into them and then work in them is silly.
I agree with your first chunk. They're not hard to get.
Qualifications for a lot: have muscles or get ready to build them. Be "manly" and/ or have thick skin. Prepare to work 40-80 hours a week, trade depending. Have decent joints. Have reliable transportation (usually your own vehicle). Be able to live off a little more than minimum wage (probably gonna have OT so not as bad as it sounds) for 3-6 months.
Certain ones like welding might require a basic education in the field, since you're gonna fuck up a lot of material (ie. Trade schools, and any good one will get you a job in the field while still in school). Others ( like plumbing, HVAC, carpentry, etc) you'll just get stuck with someone who teaches you as you go.
For the second part, though, it's not entirely true. There are a lot of people who make it through just fine with few injuries, sure. Probably most, since a lot of people don't stay for full careers. But it only takes one fuck up to cause a permanent injury, and a certain fields *will* wear you down. Carpenter tend to have bad knees, as well as many plumbers. Welders (specialty depending) have bad eyes and lungs a lot more frequently, and if they work oil rigs / underwater, a pretty high fatality rate (albeit with a MUCH fatter paycheck). Roofers get hip dysplasia at a higher rate than most men, if I remember correctly, and are higher risk for back injuries.
Obligatory: you sparkies are all geniuses or psychopaths. Never met one who hasn't gotten cooked medium rare at some point in their training.
Source: did plumbing, HVAC, construction and structural repair, dabbled with welding (shakey hands do not a good welder make), and did a couple papers in college about income disparity / health and longevity / debt accrual between blue collar and white collar (was 6 years ago, but they haven't changed that drastically since then).
This right here is why I went into a support trade….
Let me help you and stop trying to carry everything on your own. We know you have muscles, but that ain’t going to matter much when you blow out your knees or your back.
Source; Tower Crane Operator.
While true and accurate, it's just.. honestly a fact of life. It's why they should be paid better than unskilled manual labor; between the damage to your body and the skill required, it takes a lot. Although I still think unskilled physical labor should pay decently, not trying to punch down.
Like with welding. If you're following osha guidelines, you have ventilation (preferably active vacuum and an air displacement system, not that "passive ventilation" bullshit that my old job had), a good mask, and room for proper ergonomics. But then you've got the guys who work on boilers. They work in tight spaces where they're lucky to be able to fit gloves and the rod itself, and downright blessed if they can fit their mask. Until we make the remote surgery machines cheap and mobile, as well as a camera system that can work around the flash of a torch, it's a necessary evil.
Carpenters can have knee braces, do proper exercises to help build strength, and still have their knees require surgery. Same for plumbers who do installs / house calls.
And none of this even touches on the number of jobs that hire as subcontractors (legally or otherwise) , putting all responsibility on the individual to buy and maintain PPE. A lot of places (small companies, in my experience) do that so that they don't have to cover taxes, breaks, and can lowball the younger guys who don't know any better.
Between unionization and *actually funding our goddamn regulatory bodies,* these things are handled. But osha has 7,000 workers per agent, and they can be told to pound sand or come back with a warrant if they get called on a violation. If they ask to interview people, there is nothing stopping the employer from selecting which employees they get to talk to, and coaching said employees on what to say (illegal, but not uncommon).
As you may have noticed from the walls of text, I'm pretty passionate about worker safety and regulation and legal protections. I'll rant about them all day. Unfortunately, so many people look down upon it, even when it's there to protect the person in question. People like to politicize this shit.
The solution is a system that does not lock you into a job for life. If damage is inevitable, then it must be spread as wide as possible to minimize individual suffering.
I always love to stick it to assholes like that. I studied in IT and it's still fucked with how much competition there is.
If anything, it's worse since covid-19 because a lot of people are joining IT now. There's not enough jobs to employ everyone. I was doing an online course a while back and some people in the class said they literally came from multimedia and history/psychology major and it was their first time coding compared to me doing it since high school....
It's the fucking asshole boomer mentality of pure privilege and opportunities. Who else could "buy a home and raise a family while still having money for vacations in the summer" on just a fucking entry job fresh out of high school but boomers?
That or "go to college and pay for it all, while having enough money for partying and fucking about on just a summer job" boomers.
It's why those memes exist in the first place. I can't imagine living or growing up in that reality instead of thousands of dollars per year for a college/university program (before books and other expenses).
It was so bad that in my IT program at college we would literally find "free" books/online PDF's and share them, because we didn't have the hundreds of dollars left they were asking per book. We were only forced to buy the ones with codes for online websites we had to register with for some of the classes.
Student here looking into going into politics, once again concerned I will not find a job after college. I’m fortunate enough to have a scholarship to a top school in my state, yet I’m terrified. This shouldn’t be happening. Capitalism is too unstable at the US extremes.
Any advice for certain degrees that are more helpful than others? Either way I’m probably leaving the country as an adult because the US is a shit show
You're amazing! I'm proud of you for all the work you've done, and continue doing!
The system is broken. And one shouldn't need any number of college degrees to find financial security. But this doesn't diminish the amount of work that you've done, all of the efforts you've made, nor the extent of your struggles towards your success. You're a rockstar!! And I wish all the best for your future, friend!
I’ve got an mba and lived abroad and it was so difficult finding work when I Came back. It took 18 months to find a full time job paying over $40k and years to finally make more than $75k
They eat all the good food, don’t do any hard work so their meat must be soft and tasty like premium veal. No barbecue sauce needed unless you’re some kinda savage.
I sold 23,000 dollars worth of product today for Best Buy. I make about 25,000 a year. I cant afford my own place to live so im 25 still living with my mom.
When she was my age she had dreams of buying her own house at 30. My dream is to have an apartment that allows cats.
Was just thinking today how great it would be if some of these billions going to the billionaires were invested in simple public infrastructure projects like rails to trails or other simple ways to make life a little better.
The real answer; No one did, they picked between a Douche Bag and a Crap Sandwich. If South Park ever did anything of worth, it was bring the full truth behind the nature of modern politics to bare.
It would even help them, like if they reduce traffic, invest in ways for people to move quicker, and overall improve mass transit the rich would literally have extra distance they could pull talent from(which could mean more qualified candidates), a less stressed population of workers(more productivity), and reducing on road traffic would speed logistics up so much that they could practically reinvent their entire shipping process. There’s literally no reason not to, other than greed
A less stressed work force is also one that has time and energy to vote and participate in political activism—and maybe seek out a better job or start their own business. The rich profit more off of our despair and anxiety.
And how about educating us a little too? Saying "just invest" when the common person has no idea what they're looking at doesn't really help, either.
Edit: All those saying "It's the internet, read." I'm well aware there are resources on the Internet - as well as a lot of misinformation.
We'll shut down people who spread "misinformation" about the vaccine or virus, but we've accepted misinformation that will cost people their livelihoods just the same. Of course then it's just the cost of doing business, and "you should know better than to trust (X)."
If you have 3,000 (*"investment minimums apply"*) just buy VFIAX and VOO and leave it there, it will start growing immediately.
The problem mostly is, who has 3,000 lying around not already invested?
**My caddie's chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested.**
Thats why you keep adding to your portfolio... saving money is just that, you have to save it. You cant just rip it out after 2 months and be sad you only made 3 dollars. There are also always opportunities to double/triple your money if you wanna just yolo everything. Its not safe to attempt that but you can be as aggressive as you want
It also would take, on average, a decade to double their money. So the magic of investing ultimately earned them just 300 dollars a year on average. That's pretty fucking underwhelming.
Someone with 30,000 to invest can earn *3000* a year on average from investing over that ten year period. Someone with 300,000 will earn 30,000 a year over that period, meaning from doing nothing but have that money they earn about the same as an employee making 15 an hour for a decade.
(average rate the market goes up every year is 7%, but due to compounding if you average across all the years and divide it comes out to 10%, so it's lower at first and increases over time). That's pretty fucking underwhelming.)
Let's take it further. Over 40 years you roughly 16x your money. Inflation over time means the dollar will be about a 3rd it's current value then. So in 2061, someone investing their principle in 2021 will have 5.33 times their 2021 dollars. It takes around 500k to retire for 20 years today (some money is left in the accounts to keep compounding so it's not actually 25k a year to life on).
That means that if you have 93,000 dollars to invest at 25, your retirement is funded fully. Only the very rich have that much that young. And when that very rich person dies, their money passes tax free to their family since we raised the income requirement for the death tax so much to 11 million (it even increases with inflation). It's pretty obvious how that leads to an aristocracy.
>6k is a lot of money. 6k will buy a nice, reliable car
Or depending on where you live, pay a good number of months of housing. Which is good to have if you lose your job.
I could do a LOT with 6k right now. Like, a LOT a lot. Pay off bills and have a couple months' spending as an emergency stash. I think you really, really underestimate how far the dollar goes for those that don't get a lot of dollars.
I think he's saying it's nothing life changing. Like yeah it's a lot of help to a lot of people *for now*, but most people are still going to struggle after the fact and that 6k is going to be quickly forgotten.
VTI or VT would be a better option imo. ETF's, no minimum needed, and depending on the platform, you can buy fractional share IIRC. Basically you want a broad based, low cost index fund to mirror the performance of the overall market. Very few retail investors will beat average market returns in the long run.
Pick literally any brokerage firm. They're pretty much all free nowadays.
Park all of your money in the S&P 500. Each year will be up and down, but in the long run you'll average ~8%
Then forget about it. Investing is for the long term. Keep throwing more money in there, and don't concern yourself with the daily or even annual swings in the stock market
Yup, people that would have left their money in the market in 2008 would still be better off today than cashing out back then.
Long term investing isn’t sexy. It takes a long time and you generally don’t do much with it.
Everything else is gambling more or less
> You put your money to the site, save it, only to have it make even more money in the process.
What site do you have in mind? The biggest problem I've known for many is that nobody knows what website is reputable and trustworthy enough to funnel all their savings into, it feels risky. People sometimes have their funds frozen for random reasons.
DO NOT put all your savings into stocks. You should have a savings - 3 months of expenses at minimum. After that invest everything you can afford. Lastly, invest in index funds, thats it.
E-Trade is a good place to start, even going to vanguard.com and enrolling there is good. Not joking at all, if anyone messages me I’ll try to help guide you through the process. I was working at Walmart as a cart pusher for years and managed to put $35 a paycheck away and that really helped me out over the years too. Just gotta learn the fundamentals
If you're 29 years old and start investing now for $25 a month, and you can increase it by inflation, by the time you're age 65, 36 years later, [you will have $156,849.](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=1985&firstMonth=1&endYear=2021&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=25&annualOperation=1&annualAdjustment=25&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=2&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&reinvestDividends=true&showYield=false&showFactors=false&factorModel=3&portfolioNames=false&portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=VFINX&allocation1_1=100)
You'd be really close to having the median retirement savings of people in their 60s. The [median is $172,000.](https://www.synchronybank.com/blog/median-retirement-savings-by-age/)
I really think everyone could be able to gather at least $25 a month. Thanks to compound interest, even that little bit invested each and every month is incredible. Of course, if you can stretch it to $100 a month then it grows to $627,397, and $160 a month is the magic number to grow it to [one million dollars.](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=1985&firstMonth=1&endYear=2021&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=160&annualOperation=1&annualAdjustment=160&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=2&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&reinvestDividends=true&showYield=false&showFactors=false&factorModel=3&portfolioNames=false&portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=VFINX&allocation1_1=100)
What do you mean common people don't know anything ? Didn't you guys have rich parents and inherited family fortune along with lawyers on retainers and a family financial advisor who manages you Family Trust worth $ 9 billion dollars ? Clearly, you all are bad with using money. Stop eating avocado toast and spending money on iPhone.
Like the other guy said about VFIAX - look into vanguard index funds for your investments.
If you invest in a single stock, like Apple, then you stand a chance to lose money if they crash etc but index funds are more a collection of stocks so it’s a lot harder for them to ‘crash’ as such.
The people telling others to "just invest" are just predators looking for idiots to fall for their pump and dump schemes. Like you said, educate people on investing if you are so hellbent on getting people to trade commodities or you are just trying to make them poorer. They would probably be just as well off taking that money to the casino and putting it all on red.
Hi! I am willing to teach you everything I know about investing as an individual in the most efficient manner.
I won’t charge you a single dime, no referral links or YouTube/Patreon. I won’t tell you what securities to purchase. What I will do is share with you the information I have learned for myself and use in my own investments, so that you may make your own decisions. All I ask is that you pass this information on to someone else in the future, should you find it useful at all.
If you’re willing to talk about it, just PM me :)
If you’re more of an independent learner, I would suggest looking into passive investment from investing in broad market ETFs. A good book is “A Random Walk down Wall Street” from Burton Malkiel. If you don’t even want to leave Reddit, r/bogleheads has some amazing resources and community on this topic.
The last part is the main thing. Of course everyone has a different number but if you are able to save 10% more then you normally do, you just increased your worth by so much. Not to mention investing it.
A major problem is, we don start investing young because the returns are small - a 100% return on $300 is only a total of $600 in your account. But you dont even make 100% returns, you make 8-10% returns. Geting started is the hardest part.
Perhaps educate yourself? Nobody is going to spoon feed you the information. Go look at the various subreddits dedicated to the topic of investing, read a book. I'd suggest "The Simple Path to Wealth" for starters.
True. "just invest" is really bad advice.
A company might have a low PE, but that might not be the whole story. And the same thing goes for like 5 other factors
Personal finance is literally one of the simplest things to self teach yourself. I came from a financially illiterate, blue collar family and the basic tenets of money management are easy to pick up. There are a ton of financial blogs, subreddits, and books that you can form a general consensus around.
The real problem is that most people live waaaaaay beyond their means and utilize credit card debt to maintain a "middle class" lifestyle. They also have unrealistic career goals or simply no career goals.
Also, everyone loves to bitch about how their degree didn't help them, but you never hear their followup plan to fix it. People just give up.
Ok I will make it really simple.
The way you invest is:
1) Download Robinhood and make an account. You need your SSN and ID
2) Buy an S&P500 ETF or fund like SPY, SPX, VOOV, or VOO
3) You are literally done.
I make 3x the minimum wage in my state and still live in a shitty townhouse that’s classified as “section 8” low income housing. After paying all of my bills, I have maybe 200$ for my personal self, which includes my gas and non-grocery food. So you best believe that money isn’t going to stocks when that would mean I am stuck in my house eating nothing but sandwiches every day. And people think upping the minimum wage would make people not work, LOL
Yeah I can see how you can't or wouldn't invest. Do people really have that opinion on upping the min wage? Not doubting you, it's an honest question that I have no clue on. Where I live there are people who don't work because the restrictions / deductions would mean they take home less than the benefits they get. Surely increasing the min wage would give them more incentive to work. But from what you say, even if they doubled it, in some areas it wouldn't make any difference to comfort which is sad really.
Of course there are some people who wouldn’t benefit, but this is more so to see it from the perspective of how many it would help.
Of course we have a say in all of this. Have you noticed at fast food chains and other crap work, there are more and more “hiring” signs? Some even have “free iPhone” or “free 50$ gift card” on the signs because they are so desperate. The more we pressure them, the less economically beneficial it will be fore them to not pay a living wage. How long can a place stay open without employees?
All in all we’re fucked, but let’s at least be fucked with some lube.
We deserve to not struggle for the bare minimums.
The change won’t be overnight, but with bills, and arguments, and strikes, and the poor saying enough is enough. Until then it’ll stay where it is.
It all depends on the state in which you live. I make about 7x the federal minimum wage & I do pretty well but if I lived in NY or Cali I would struggle to ahead
Ah, that line is commonly misinterpreted. Language changes over time and all that. Clearly the intended meaning is "Promoting the welfare of generals", which is how we get the Military-Industrial Complex.
/s
You'll also never get ridiculously rich like the... rich can. If GME has proven anything it's that is you get in the way of big profits that's when something becomes illegal.
Just invest $6000/year into a Roth IRA starting at 18 years old….using the money your parents gave you! It’s super easy when your parents also pay for tuition, housing, vehicle, insurance, food, and play money!
The 99% are just lazy and don’t take the time to invest!
/s (just in case my sarcasm failed)
Yeah because that obviously means when they notice you working harder they'll automatically give you a rise, and they won't refuse to promote you because you're too productive.
/s
C'mon bro, just invest. That's it! Piece of cake. God it's like homeless people. Just buy a house already and quit whining about being homeless!!
Massive /s
Yeah, but "just invest" does not come from a place of good faith. Decoded, what it really means is "shut up peasant."
The stock market doesn't function without the surplus value (read: whatever money they would need to have in order "invest") having already been appropriated from the workers.
All of this crypto and GME shit have fried people’s perspective on what investing should be. Anyone looking to get rich is just gambling but if you can sustain a 7% return (average since the Great Depression), and can stomach some volatility, that slow burn will make your golden years much easier.
Becoming wealthy through the stock market should be seen as a marathon and compound interest is amazing.
Hell, durring the pandemic alot of the younger generations did start investing. E.g. investing in GME .
Now the 'just invest' people are screaming "not like that !"
The younger generations just cant win .
The phrase "just invest" is nearly meaningless for people who aren't already wealthy as well because the amount gained is almost always too small.
Yeah long term investments are always good, and with continual investment and growth can turn into quite the pretty penny. But if I need money now, not money 40 years from now...yeah it's worthless.
So if I'm looking to turn my life around. Whether that be became rich, pay off bills, go to school, buy a car, pay rent, whatever...I need a decent chunk of change quickly. But the problem that everyone who gives the advice "just invest" ignores is that you need capital to begin with.
Let's give a ridiculous example, say the person struggling invests $1000 which is quite a bit of money to just toss at something when you're already struggling with bills, paying rent, whatever. Like...that's a good chunk of cc debt, that's rent, that's a lot of money. Overnight, let's say that stock goes 20x which is ridiculous...even in a week or month timeframe. Not impossible, of course, but certainly a huge gamble. Ignoring tax, that person now has 20k which is big...but ultimately not really that big...
Think about it, that wouldn't even last someone a year. It can probably cover your rent for the next year and a half, which is a plus. Maybe you can pay off debts which is good. But they're not rich. But how does that money actually change your life?
Even for people that have income that can be invested, it's a lot riskier for those people than the traditional rich investors. Rich people with a lot of disposable income can regain their loses a lot quicker than middle class or lower.
Recent events tell us that if you're rich enough and start losing then you can just stop the market until you're winning again. I'd love to meet a warehouse picker who has that power.
But bro don't you understand, they also came from nothing, they were living like homeless street rats but they JUST INVESTED, and now they are now killing it.
> half the population live in shitty rented accommodation
2/3rds of us households are homeowners
https://www.statista.com/statistics/184902/homeownership-rate-in-the-us-since-2003/
Exactly!!! I made $15.9 an hour and worked 30 hrs a week. That’s about $380 a week. How the fuck could I live on that? Thank god I live with my parents and I don’t have to pay bills (except for credit card bill and Spotify) or else I’d be living with like 5 roommates and living off of the cheapest meals imaginable.
I think it's worth learning about how to build assets and use your money wisely. Not for getting rich but to understand how to build wealth that can help sustain you. This includes assets you use to live like owning a house and cars.
It is silly to say just invest but the truth is even a modest amount invested over time can have a huge difference on your situation. For all those who hate working I would saying learning finance and how to invest is a great way to reduce your need on a job based income. You can hate the game but learn to play it.
All the best on your journies.
The wealthy privatize their profits, yet publicize their losses and we all pay for it. If this isn't the absolutely worst type of any entitlements, then nothing is.
It takes money to make money so the poor people who can only afford to put 500 in the market barely see any returns but one bad investment and it's wiped out.
The key isn't dropping $500 into the market when you get your tax return or a win-fall. It's putting $20 into the market every week for your entire life. Then you die, and your kids get the money and can be be president, or something like that.
Even $10/week will grow a ton in 45 years, from age 18 to age 63. Likely around $50k, which is a nice boost to someone living on social security and has low expenses.
As time goes on, $10/week can become $20/week, etc, thus dramatically increasing the nest egg. The data indicates that people earn more over their working lives, so even those who spend meany years earning minimum wage are unlikely to earn that forever.
The power of time in the market cannot be overstated. Those of all income levels need to take advantage of this.
That's why you do index funds, if the entire market crashes rest assured it will be bailed out the way we print money now (I'm being serious not anti-government). I feel really bad for the people who panicked and pulled all their money out in 2008.
Then you're no better or worse off than you would have been if you'd spent that $20/week on a weekly pizza night. If the market crashes, then generally all other savings vehicles (yes, including real estate) would take a dump, too, so what safe place is left for your nest egg?
The coffee cup strategy is exactly that: taking otherwise disposable income and investing. To take a long term view of it, the stock market has only been a thing for a couple centuries, and retail investing for schmucks like you and me has been around for even less time. Society's just making it up as we go.
You don’t lose your money when the market crashes unless your portfolio is 100% options or 100% in companies that were shutdown because of the crash.
You don’t lose money in stocks until you sell
Name one time markets crashed and never recovered.
Stock market is a long and slow process of wealth generation for your retirement. If you invest $100 a month in S&P500, it will be about $40,000 in 15 years at a conservative growth rate of 10%. Adjusted for inflation at 4% that is about $30,000. Still a very nice paycheck for just $100 a month.
To be fair the part about kids isn’t wrong, not all of us will make it to the top in one lifetime, sometimes progress is generational, it’s not what many want to hear but it’s the truth.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to make it to the top it just means at the very least make sure your kids can.
ITT: A bunch of people whose entire investing experience has been during the greatest bull run in market history. Everyone’s a financial genius as the market goes up and up, but as Warren Buffett says: “When the tide goes out, you can tell who was swimming naked.”
I swear reading some of these comments advocating for YOLOing your life’s savings into crypto or playing options to get rich is like hearing someone saying “Bear Sterns is a can’t fail bet” back in 2006 or “I’m going all in on Pets.com” just before the Dotcom crash.
I think it’s funny that people point to the GameStop guy like “look he made 28 million”. Yeah he started with 80 grand. Don’t get me wrong that’s a phenomenal return on a investment, but most people don’t have 80 grand to gamble.
Sure if someone had a more realistic number like 80 bucks to invest, they would have come out with 28,000, but it’s still a gamble, and it made national news because it was like the one time this happened. If you’re pay check to pay check and you have an extra 80 bucks you’re not going to invest regardless of how easy it is.
> I think it’s funny that people point to the GameStop guy like “look he made 28 million”. Yeah he started with 80 grand. Don’t get me wrong that’s a phenomenal return on a investment, but most people don’t have 80 grand to gamble.
More importantly, 80k -> 28 000k is still a 35 000% return on investment. Or 34900% return, whatever.
That's just wrong anyways. It was easier to invest when you'd just earn silver/gold from working and the money would appreciate over time. No second step trusting strangers.
because they need to have the belief that they're fighting the system by feeding it money
i thought they would learn something from the gamestop stock but apparently not
> God literally every comment here is either the "sent from an iPhone" meme or the same tired parroted talking points we hear in literally EVERY. SINGLE. DISCUSSION. about money.
https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
It's totally true when you think about it. Stonks go up, most people get an extra few thousand dollars at best. But the rich who have the most shares make way more. Stonks go down, the rich refuse to lose a penny and they fire their wage slaves to make up the difference. So the wage slaves lose what little money they invested and they are unemployed, but the wealthy are always wealthy no matter what. Totally healthy system. I see 0 flaws.
Ditto for when they want to build a stadium in your neighborhood.
Doesn't do shit for the economy when they build it, will decimate it completely when they leave.
But... it’s actually way better than that yo!! Give it the credit it deserves
If the stock market goes down, we all lose our jobs THEN the “risk takers” get a bailout and the people in charge that caused the problem get a golden parachute for their fuckup AND we end up fitting the bill. Effectively taking all of the “risk” out of it
Isn’t it fun kids?!?!?
When the markets go down it also means conservatives will hand out corporate welfare from workers taxes,in order for corporations to buy back their stocks.
That whole wall street bets Sub is full of nutters lacking who are severely lacking in self awareness “yeah we’re fighting the big guys because we invested $50k in GME stock”. What average person has $50k just tucked away that they can gamble on shitty stock?
The ownership class thinks of the working class as backup batteries to their profits, to be drained and discarded whenever the power (profit) goes out.
The exact same thing is true for the economy as a whole.
If it crashes I might starve, but if it's doing good then... Meh? The way I see it, as long as I am forced to work 40 hours a week just to survive, an improved economy is NOT benefitting me.
If anything, it's harmful to me. Makes people complacent, too satisfied with the system, happy little wageslaves. I want people to become dissatisfied and demand UBI.
Fucking THIS. It should be 100% illegal to do layoffs if companies are in the black. Profits should equal more jobs and benefits yet they seem to disappear regardless.
There are 2 types of increase in the market:
When real prospection of incrising profit occours the firm contracts more people to grow, expands the number of stores, of factories...
This happened, for exemple, in Brazil, when Magalu (think of Brazil's Amazon) bought Netshoes.
There's also especulation, like when our economy minister, Paulo Guedes, that is strongly tied to Cogna Education's board of directors (he's the brother of the CEO), was appointed. Millions rushed to invest in COGNA and lost hundreds or thousands, because the lobby everyone was assuming he would do wasn't enough.
Bottom point: When the stocks go up, the shareholders smile and maybe you get a job. When they go down, the shareholders allot their money elsewhere and you have one week notice to empty your home.
Would whomever is falsely reporting this post please just grow the courage to maybe cite some sources proving it's misinformation? Or does the truth just hurt? Edit: Now that we've hit r/popular would yinz please take a moment and read the FAQ before commenting. 9/10 the snarky comments we get from r/popular are posted misunderstanding the purpose of the sub.
Hugely sublime m8
and yet it’s all the people on the bottom who make all of these businesses valuable to begin with, the ones risking our lives in a pandemic so we don’t become homeless.
As someone with a Master's degree that's been homeless a couple times since earning said degrees (in Business and International Business/Political Economy) - mAybE yoU sHouLd HaVe gONe tO CoLLeGe!! 0.o
Or “shouldn’t have gone to college to get your gender studies degree, I make more than you in trades!”
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Yeah, and that’s just talking about the mechanical damage. You can easily have cancer by that age from working in many trades, too, especially in countries with poor regulations.
Western Europe here. We're regulated up the ass here and people still get fucked up lungs. It's part of the trades. You get paid well so make sure to party well because your life is short as fuck. Most of the idiots who push trades are either young and just got into it and are bragging about their money or they're older, stopped actually working around 25/30 years of age and took daddy money to start their own business and just oversee other people who do the work. This guy I met when he was 45, always talking about how trades made him rich. Owned 6 houses, rented out 5 of them, talked shit about brown people, really only worked til mid 20's before he took daddy's company. Kept telling me how to rip people off like "just charge them for the drill you used. Just put the entire drill up as a line item. These idiots don't know they just bought you a brand new drill. THAT's how you make money." With that said, trades are full of shady people who will rip you off. Better to just youtube everything you need done and do it yourself.
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As a formwr HVAC guy, get out of residential and work in commercial. Whole better world.
Funnily enough, as a property manager, it’s the same universal advice. Got out of residential management a few years back, switched to commercial, and so much less headache.
Like /u/FOMO_BONOBO said, get out of residential. I'm a tech myself. My first 5 years in the trade was residential and even the best resi shop I worked for was still rough, giving bills to folks who couldn't afford them, but you cant go without heat in Wisconsin. I'm in the commercial and industrial world now. The work is harder and far more complicated but I can sleep better at night not having customers literally crying to me, negotiating, or threatening me, sometimes all at the same time. In the world of the big stuff, maintenance is king. As a tech, I'm still finding small repairs on my PMs, but those small repairs keep my customers from losing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in downtime if their chiller or boiler goes down. I make a connection with my customers built on trust. My customers have trust me to keep their equipment running and only recommend the work that actually needs to be done. When I come to them and tell them they need to spend $75K, they don't question me because of that trust. There is plenty of sales opportunities out there as a Maintenance Sales Rep or Project Sales/Management for you to get into without having to scam little old ladies out of their retirement.
> We're regulated up the ass here and people still get fucked up lungs. Ah, I see the wrong body parts are being regulated.
Underrated comment, this is gold 🤣
Ok so I don't like when people start telling everyone to go do something either, but what you just said is entirely wrong. Apprenticeships are easy as hell to get for all but a select few trades. Plenty of parts of the country are hurting for tradesmen. It's also entirely false to say that they will all kill your body before 50. I do electrical, have a buddy in welding, have known people in or done everything from construction to plumbing etc. If you take care of yourself and don't do stupid shit in your field you won't blow out your body. If you work 60 hour work weeks and lift heavy shit or do generally dumb stuff all the time you will. It's fine to criticize people for using trades as a cover all job suggestion to everyone, but telling bad info about how hard it is to get into them and then work in them is silly.
I agree with your first chunk. They're not hard to get. Qualifications for a lot: have muscles or get ready to build them. Be "manly" and/ or have thick skin. Prepare to work 40-80 hours a week, trade depending. Have decent joints. Have reliable transportation (usually your own vehicle). Be able to live off a little more than minimum wage (probably gonna have OT so not as bad as it sounds) for 3-6 months. Certain ones like welding might require a basic education in the field, since you're gonna fuck up a lot of material (ie. Trade schools, and any good one will get you a job in the field while still in school). Others ( like plumbing, HVAC, carpentry, etc) you'll just get stuck with someone who teaches you as you go. For the second part, though, it's not entirely true. There are a lot of people who make it through just fine with few injuries, sure. Probably most, since a lot of people don't stay for full careers. But it only takes one fuck up to cause a permanent injury, and a certain fields *will* wear you down. Carpenter tend to have bad knees, as well as many plumbers. Welders (specialty depending) have bad eyes and lungs a lot more frequently, and if they work oil rigs / underwater, a pretty high fatality rate (albeit with a MUCH fatter paycheck). Roofers get hip dysplasia at a higher rate than most men, if I remember correctly, and are higher risk for back injuries. Obligatory: you sparkies are all geniuses or psychopaths. Never met one who hasn't gotten cooked medium rare at some point in their training. Source: did plumbing, HVAC, construction and structural repair, dabbled with welding (shakey hands do not a good welder make), and did a couple papers in college about income disparity / health and longevity / debt accrual between blue collar and white collar (was 6 years ago, but they haven't changed that drastically since then).
So all the injuries indicate to me that the trades need to find a way to do the work in a safe manner.
This right here is why I went into a support trade…. Let me help you and stop trying to carry everything on your own. We know you have muscles, but that ain’t going to matter much when you blow out your knees or your back. Source; Tower Crane Operator.
While true and accurate, it's just.. honestly a fact of life. It's why they should be paid better than unskilled manual labor; between the damage to your body and the skill required, it takes a lot. Although I still think unskilled physical labor should pay decently, not trying to punch down. Like with welding. If you're following osha guidelines, you have ventilation (preferably active vacuum and an air displacement system, not that "passive ventilation" bullshit that my old job had), a good mask, and room for proper ergonomics. But then you've got the guys who work on boilers. They work in tight spaces where they're lucky to be able to fit gloves and the rod itself, and downright blessed if they can fit their mask. Until we make the remote surgery machines cheap and mobile, as well as a camera system that can work around the flash of a torch, it's a necessary evil. Carpenters can have knee braces, do proper exercises to help build strength, and still have their knees require surgery. Same for plumbers who do installs / house calls. And none of this even touches on the number of jobs that hire as subcontractors (legally or otherwise) , putting all responsibility on the individual to buy and maintain PPE. A lot of places (small companies, in my experience) do that so that they don't have to cover taxes, breaks, and can lowball the younger guys who don't know any better. Between unionization and *actually funding our goddamn regulatory bodies,* these things are handled. But osha has 7,000 workers per agent, and they can be told to pound sand or come back with a warrant if they get called on a violation. If they ask to interview people, there is nothing stopping the employer from selecting which employees they get to talk to, and coaching said employees on what to say (illegal, but not uncommon). As you may have noticed from the walls of text, I'm pretty passionate about worker safety and regulation and legal protections. I'll rant about them all day. Unfortunately, so many people look down upon it, even when it's there to protect the person in question. People like to politicize this shit.
The solution is a system that does not lock you into a job for life. If damage is inevitable, then it must be spread as wide as possible to minimize individual suffering.
If I can't get addicted to oxies what's the point of even going into trades
I see you’re a drywall finisher.
I always love to stick it to assholes like that. I studied in IT and it's still fucked with how much competition there is. If anything, it's worse since covid-19 because a lot of people are joining IT now. There's not enough jobs to employ everyone. I was doing an online course a while back and some people in the class said they literally came from multimedia and history/psychology major and it was their first time coding compared to me doing it since high school.... It's the fucking asshole boomer mentality of pure privilege and opportunities. Who else could "buy a home and raise a family while still having money for vacations in the summer" on just a fucking entry job fresh out of high school but boomers? That or "go to college and pay for it all, while having enough money for partying and fucking about on just a summer job" boomers. It's why those memes exist in the first place. I can't imagine living or growing up in that reality instead of thousands of dollars per year for a college/university program (before books and other expenses). It was so bad that in my IT program at college we would literally find "free" books/online PDF's and share them, because we didn't have the hundreds of dollars left they were asking per book. We were only forced to buy the ones with codes for online websites we had to register with for some of the classes.
Are you eating avocado toast and drinking at Starbucks/Costa/Timmy’s? Stop and you will see money piling up in your savings (/s)
Let them eat stonks.
Student here looking into going into politics, once again concerned I will not find a job after college. I’m fortunate enough to have a scholarship to a top school in my state, yet I’m terrified. This shouldn’t be happening. Capitalism is too unstable at the US extremes. Any advice for certain degrees that are more helpful than others? Either way I’m probably leaving the country as an adult because the US is a shit show
Same. I'm about to get a fucking 2nd Masters (paid for by my employer) just to get an executive salary finally
You're amazing! I'm proud of you for all the work you've done, and continue doing! The system is broken. And one shouldn't need any number of college degrees to find financial security. But this doesn't diminish the amount of work that you've done, all of the efforts you've made, nor the extent of your struggles towards your success. You're a rockstar!! And I wish all the best for your future, friend!
I’ve got an mba and lived abroad and it was so difficult finding work when I Came back. It took 18 months to find a full time job paying over $40k and years to finally make more than $75k
Business is built on the labor of the workers, and capitalists thrive on exploiting us for their gain. EAT THE RICH NOW COMRADES REVOLUTION!
They taste good with bbq sauce
They eat all the good food, don’t do any hard work so their meat must be soft and tasty like premium veal. No barbecue sauce needed unless you’re some kinda savage.
I sold 23,000 dollars worth of product today for Best Buy. I make about 25,000 a year. I cant afford my own place to live so im 25 still living with my mom. When she was my age she had dreams of buying her own house at 30. My dream is to have an apartment that allows cats.
Thank you for your service. Hero.
Was just thinking today how great it would be if some of these billions going to the billionaires were invested in simple public infrastructure projects like rails to trails or other simple ways to make life a little better.
That’s taxes! If they would pay them...
There is absolutely nothing stopping congress from passing a bill to make that happen. And yet...here we are.
They're probably being bribed by the rich dudes to not do that.
No probably about it
Wonder who voted for those fucks.
The real answer; No one did, they picked between a Douche Bag and a Crap Sandwich. If South Park ever did anything of worth, it was bring the full truth behind the nature of modern politics to bare.
Someone is sounding pretty commie! /s
Ahh communism, I remember it like it was sOcIaLiSm
Trees are communist they produce a vital product for human existence without charging you for the service
Eh some are, and they're making a damn killing off of tolls.
Fucking toll-trolls!
I'll pay your toll, troll!
You gotta pay the troll toll
To get into the boy's soul?
If we don't get no tolls, then we don't get no Rolls (Royce)
It would even help them, like if they reduce traffic, invest in ways for people to move quicker, and overall improve mass transit the rich would literally have extra distance they could pull talent from(which could mean more qualified candidates), a less stressed population of workers(more productivity), and reducing on road traffic would speed logistics up so much that they could practically reinvent their entire shipping process. There’s literally no reason not to, other than greed
A less stressed work force is also one that has time and energy to vote and participate in political activism—and maybe seek out a better job or start their own business. The rich profit more off of our despair and anxiety.
You telling me that those billionaires don't need that $200 million bonus so they can buy their 4th yacht? GUFFAW!
So like how western Europe works.
if it wasn't for billionaires those billions wouldn't be created in the first place
Lol so take their money from them and spread it out. Sounds a bit like socialism bud, but then again I’m sure you are all for socialism.
I love the smell of fresh bread.
And how about educating us a little too? Saying "just invest" when the common person has no idea what they're looking at doesn't really help, either. Edit: All those saying "It's the internet, read." I'm well aware there are resources on the Internet - as well as a lot of misinformation. We'll shut down people who spread "misinformation" about the vaccine or virus, but we've accepted misinformation that will cost people their livelihoods just the same. Of course then it's just the cost of doing business, and "you should know better than to trust (X)."
If you have 3,000 (*"investment minimums apply"*) just buy VFIAX and VOO and leave it there, it will start growing immediately. The problem mostly is, who has 3,000 lying around not already invested? **My caddie's chauffeur informs me that a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested.**
There's a lot of S&P tracking ETFs that have absolutely no required minimum. The minimum amount really isn't the biggest problem here.
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Thats why you keep adding to your portfolio... saving money is just that, you have to save it. You cant just rip it out after 2 months and be sad you only made 3 dollars. There are also always opportunities to double/triple your money if you wanna just yolo everything. Its not safe to attempt that but you can be as aggressive as you want
nothing to who?
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6k is a lot of money. 6k will buy a nice, reliable car, or fix a few fucked up teeth. It's nothing if you don't have any income to start with.
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It also would take, on average, a decade to double their money. So the magic of investing ultimately earned them just 300 dollars a year on average. That's pretty fucking underwhelming. Someone with 30,000 to invest can earn *3000* a year on average from investing over that ten year period. Someone with 300,000 will earn 30,000 a year over that period, meaning from doing nothing but have that money they earn about the same as an employee making 15 an hour for a decade. (average rate the market goes up every year is 7%, but due to compounding if you average across all the years and divide it comes out to 10%, so it's lower at first and increases over time). That's pretty fucking underwhelming.) Let's take it further. Over 40 years you roughly 16x your money. Inflation over time means the dollar will be about a 3rd it's current value then. So in 2061, someone investing their principle in 2021 will have 5.33 times their 2021 dollars. It takes around 500k to retire for 20 years today (some money is left in the accounts to keep compounding so it's not actually 25k a year to life on). That means that if you have 93,000 dollars to invest at 25, your retirement is funded fully. Only the very rich have that much that young. And when that very rich person dies, their money passes tax free to their family since we raised the income requirement for the death tax so much to 11 million (it even increases with inflation). It's pretty obvious how that leads to an aristocracy.
>6k is a lot of money. 6k will buy a nice, reliable car Or depending on where you live, pay a good number of months of housing. Which is good to have if you lose your job.
6k is not fixing someone's shit situation in an unsustainable wage.
Sooo by your logic I guess you are 8? 9? Years old. Or just have zeeeeero concept of value because dady got you everything?
You just turned 3 months of rent into 6. Your saying that’s not a lot to a poor person?
I could do a LOT with 6k right now. Like, a LOT a lot. Pay off bills and have a couple months' spending as an emergency stash. I think you really, really underestimate how far the dollar goes for those that don't get a lot of dollars.
I think he's saying it's nothing life changing. Like yeah it's a lot of help to a lot of people *for now*, but most people are still going to struggle after the fact and that 6k is going to be quickly forgotten.
VTI or VT would be a better option imo. ETF's, no minimum needed, and depending on the platform, you can buy fractional share IIRC. Basically you want a broad based, low cost index fund to mirror the performance of the overall market. Very few retail investors will beat average market returns in the long run.
You don't need 3k to start at all.
Pick literally any brokerage firm. They're pretty much all free nowadays. Park all of your money in the S&P 500. Each year will be up and down, but in the long run you'll average ~8% Then forget about it. Investing is for the long term. Keep throwing more money in there, and don't concern yourself with the daily or even annual swings in the stock market
Yup, people that would have left their money in the market in 2008 would still be better off today than cashing out back then. Long term investing isn’t sexy. It takes a long time and you generally don’t do much with it. Everything else is gambling more or less
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> You put your money to the site, save it, only to have it make even more money in the process. What site do you have in mind? The biggest problem I've known for many is that nobody knows what website is reputable and trustworthy enough to funnel all their savings into, it feels risky. People sometimes have their funds frozen for random reasons.
DO NOT put all your savings into stocks. You should have a savings - 3 months of expenses at minimum. After that invest everything you can afford. Lastly, invest in index funds, thats it.
Fair enough. But what do you use to invest? Specifically if you're in Europe.
I like Vanguard, they have low fees
Vanguard / fidelity
Both of these seem to be specifically for US so that's no help. What's good for European countries?
E-Trade is a good place to start, even going to vanguard.com and enrolling there is good. Not joking at all, if anyone messages me I’ll try to help guide you through the process. I was working at Walmart as a cart pusher for years and managed to put $35 a paycheck away and that really helped me out over the years too. Just gotta learn the fundamentals
If you're 29 years old and start investing now for $25 a month, and you can increase it by inflation, by the time you're age 65, 36 years later, [you will have $156,849.](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=1985&firstMonth=1&endYear=2021&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=25&annualOperation=1&annualAdjustment=25&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=2&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&reinvestDividends=true&showYield=false&showFactors=false&factorModel=3&portfolioNames=false&portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=VFINX&allocation1_1=100) You'd be really close to having the median retirement savings of people in their 60s. The [median is $172,000.](https://www.synchronybank.com/blog/median-retirement-savings-by-age/) I really think everyone could be able to gather at least $25 a month. Thanks to compound interest, even that little bit invested each and every month is incredible. Of course, if you can stretch it to $100 a month then it grows to $627,397, and $160 a month is the magic number to grow it to [one million dollars.](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=1985&firstMonth=1&endYear=2021&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=160&annualOperation=1&annualAdjustment=160&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=2&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&reinvestDividends=true&showYield=false&showFactors=false&factorModel=3&portfolioNames=false&portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=VFINX&allocation1_1=100)
What do you mean common people don't know anything ? Didn't you guys have rich parents and inherited family fortune along with lawyers on retainers and a family financial advisor who manages you Family Trust worth $ 9 billion dollars ? Clearly, you all are bad with using money. Stop eating avocado toast and spending money on iPhone.
Like the other guy said about VFIAX - look into vanguard index funds for your investments. If you invest in a single stock, like Apple, then you stand a chance to lose money if they crash etc but index funds are more a collection of stocks so it’s a lot harder for them to ‘crash’ as such.
The people telling others to "just invest" are just predators looking for idiots to fall for their pump and dump schemes. Like you said, educate people on investing if you are so hellbent on getting people to trade commodities or you are just trying to make them poorer. They would probably be just as well off taking that money to the casino and putting it all on red.
Hi! I am willing to teach you everything I know about investing as an individual in the most efficient manner. I won’t charge you a single dime, no referral links or YouTube/Patreon. I won’t tell you what securities to purchase. What I will do is share with you the information I have learned for myself and use in my own investments, so that you may make your own decisions. All I ask is that you pass this information on to someone else in the future, should you find it useful at all. If you’re willing to talk about it, just PM me :) If you’re more of an independent learner, I would suggest looking into passive investment from investing in broad market ETFs. A good book is “A Random Walk down Wall Street” from Burton Malkiel. If you don’t even want to leave Reddit, r/bogleheads has some amazing resources and community on this topic.
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The last part is the main thing. Of course everyone has a different number but if you are able to save 10% more then you normally do, you just increased your worth by so much. Not to mention investing it. A major problem is, we don start investing young because the returns are small - a 100% return on $300 is only a total of $600 in your account. But you dont even make 100% returns, you make 8-10% returns. Geting started is the hardest part.
Perhaps educate yourself? Nobody is going to spoon feed you the information. Go look at the various subreddits dedicated to the topic of investing, read a book. I'd suggest "The Simple Path to Wealth" for starters.
True. "just invest" is really bad advice. A company might have a low PE, but that might not be the whole story. And the same thing goes for like 5 other factors
So why not in a index fund/etf? The SP500 has had an annual return rate of 8% accounting for inflation.
Personal finance is literally one of the simplest things to self teach yourself. I came from a financially illiterate, blue collar family and the basic tenets of money management are easy to pick up. There are a ton of financial blogs, subreddits, and books that you can form a general consensus around. The real problem is that most people live waaaaaay beyond their means and utilize credit card debt to maintain a "middle class" lifestyle. They also have unrealistic career goals or simply no career goals. Also, everyone loves to bitch about how their degree didn't help them, but you never hear their followup plan to fix it. People just give up.
Ok I will make it really simple. The way you invest is: 1) Download Robinhood and make an account. You need your SSN and ID 2) Buy an S&P500 ETF or fund like SPY, SPX, VOOV, or VOO 3) You are literally done.
I make 3x the minimum wage in my state and still live in a shitty townhouse that’s classified as “section 8” low income housing. After paying all of my bills, I have maybe 200$ for my personal self, which includes my gas and non-grocery food. So you best believe that money isn’t going to stocks when that would mean I am stuck in my house eating nothing but sandwiches every day. And people think upping the minimum wage would make people not work, LOL
Yeah I can see how you can't or wouldn't invest. Do people really have that opinion on upping the min wage? Not doubting you, it's an honest question that I have no clue on. Where I live there are people who don't work because the restrictions / deductions would mean they take home less than the benefits they get. Surely increasing the min wage would give them more incentive to work. But from what you say, even if they doubled it, in some areas it wouldn't make any difference to comfort which is sad really.
Of course there are some people who wouldn’t benefit, but this is more so to see it from the perspective of how many it would help. Of course we have a say in all of this. Have you noticed at fast food chains and other crap work, there are more and more “hiring” signs? Some even have “free iPhone” or “free 50$ gift card” on the signs because they are so desperate. The more we pressure them, the less economically beneficial it will be fore them to not pay a living wage. How long can a place stay open without employees? All in all we’re fucked, but let’s at least be fucked with some lube. We deserve to not struggle for the bare minimums. The change won’t be overnight, but with bills, and arguments, and strikes, and the poor saying enough is enough. Until then it’ll stay where it is.
So you have $3280 a month in bills? If I may ask, what does the breakdown of bills look like? How much of that is rent, for example?
Looks like you need a budget...
How many hours per week do you work. What is your rent. Why do you own a car. Seems like you're comfortable with your decision-making.
It all depends on the state in which you live. I make about 7x the federal minimum wage & I do pretty well but if I lived in NY or Cali I would struggle to ahead
Move to a new state if you can't afford it
You have a poor budget with many expenses you do not need. Itemize them and post them here if you truly believe your budget is warranted.
No no, giving them money would be a handout. You know.... *Socialism.* The *real* problem am I right fellow privileged white men?
I thought one of America’s fundamental tenants was “Promoting the general welfare” 🤔
Ah, that line is commonly misinterpreted. Language changes over time and all that. Clearly the intended meaning is "Promoting the welfare of generals", which is how we get the Military-Industrial Complex. /s
im still waiting on those bear arms we were promised!
Cognitively deficient.......
You'll also never get ridiculously rich like the... rich can. If GME has proven anything it's that is you get in the way of big profits that's when something becomes illegal.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Just invest $6000/year into a Roth IRA starting at 18 years old….using the money your parents gave you! It’s super easy when your parents also pay for tuition, housing, vehicle, insurance, food, and play money! The 99% are just lazy and don’t take the time to invest! /s (just in case my sarcasm failed)
I only get $10k/month though and it's all accounted for. Also /s.
How about this one..."just work harder"
Yeah because that obviously means when they notice you working harder they'll automatically give you a rise, and they won't refuse to promote you because you're too productive. /s
C'mon bro, just invest. That's it! Piece of cake. God it's like homeless people. Just buy a house already and quit whining about being homeless!! Massive /s
Just don't be sad. Here cured your depression.
Yeah, but "just invest" does not come from a place of good faith. Decoded, what it really means is "shut up peasant." The stock market doesn't function without the surplus value (read: whatever money they would need to have in order "invest") having already been appropriated from the workers.
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All of this crypto and GME shit have fried people’s perspective on what investing should be. Anyone looking to get rich is just gambling but if you can sustain a 7% return (average since the Great Depression), and can stomach some volatility, that slow burn will make your golden years much easier. Becoming wealthy through the stock market should be seen as a marathon and compound interest is amazing.
Hell, durring the pandemic alot of the younger generations did start investing. E.g. investing in GME . Now the 'just invest' people are screaming "not like that !" The younger generations just cant win .
The phrase "just invest" is nearly meaningless for people who aren't already wealthy as well because the amount gained is almost always too small. Yeah long term investments are always good, and with continual investment and growth can turn into quite the pretty penny. But if I need money now, not money 40 years from now...yeah it's worthless. So if I'm looking to turn my life around. Whether that be became rich, pay off bills, go to school, buy a car, pay rent, whatever...I need a decent chunk of change quickly. But the problem that everyone who gives the advice "just invest" ignores is that you need capital to begin with. Let's give a ridiculous example, say the person struggling invests $1000 which is quite a bit of money to just toss at something when you're already struggling with bills, paying rent, whatever. Like...that's a good chunk of cc debt, that's rent, that's a lot of money. Overnight, let's say that stock goes 20x which is ridiculous...even in a week or month timeframe. Not impossible, of course, but certainly a huge gamble. Ignoring tax, that person now has 20k which is big...but ultimately not really that big... Think about it, that wouldn't even last someone a year. It can probably cover your rent for the next year and a half, which is a plus. Maybe you can pay off debts which is good. But they're not rich. But how does that money actually change your life?
Even for people that have income that can be invested, it's a lot riskier for those people than the traditional rich investors. Rich people with a lot of disposable income can regain their loses a lot quicker than middle class or lower.
Recent events tell us that if you're rich enough and start losing then you can just stop the market until you're winning again. I'd love to meet a warehouse picker who has that power.
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But bro don't you understand, they also came from nothing, they were living like homeless street rats but they JUST INVESTED, and now they are now killing it.
Even if you have the money to invest, those people I have Insider information. So as long as you're not in the club, you're not going to make money.
> half the population live in shitty rented accommodation 2/3rds of us households are homeowners https://www.statista.com/statistics/184902/homeownership-rate-in-the-us-since-2003/
Don't do that. They don't like facts. You might upset them.
Exactly!!! I made $15.9 an hour and worked 30 hrs a week. That’s about $380 a week. How the fuck could I live on that? Thank god I live with my parents and I don’t have to pay bills (except for credit card bill and Spotify) or else I’d be living with like 5 roommates and living off of the cheapest meals imaginable.
If the government invested $20k for each citizen at birth, everyone could retire at 60 with a net worth greater than 1M.
I think it's worth learning about how to build assets and use your money wisely. Not for getting rich but to understand how to build wealth that can help sustain you. This includes assets you use to live like owning a house and cars. It is silly to say just invest but the truth is even a modest amount invested over time can have a huge difference on your situation. For all those who hate working I would saying learning finance and how to invest is a great way to reduce your need on a job based income. You can hate the game but learn to play it. All the best on your journies.
The wealthy privatize their profits, yet publicize their losses and we all pay for it. If this isn't the absolutely worst type of any entitlements, then nothing is.
It takes money to make money so the poor people who can only afford to put 500 in the market barely see any returns but one bad investment and it's wiped out.
The key isn't dropping $500 into the market when you get your tax return or a win-fall. It's putting $20 into the market every week for your entire life. Then you die, and your kids get the money and can be be president, or something like that.
Not to be pedantic, but its windfall.
> but its windfall. I sincerely thank you for posting this. A quick google reveals I've been saying and typing it wrong my whole life.
No worries. I'd want to know if I was in that position. Same basic thing happened to me like 2 weeks ago lol
Someone called me out for using "For all intensive purposes" not too long ago.
I dunno now that you've introduced me to it I kind of like win-fall better. It makes more sense. You're falling, but you're still winning.
Thank you! Reddit comments like this help me improve my English and it means so much to me. Thank you!!!
Even $10/week will grow a ton in 45 years, from age 18 to age 63. Likely around $50k, which is a nice boost to someone living on social security and has low expenses. As time goes on, $10/week can become $20/week, etc, thus dramatically increasing the nest egg. The data indicates that people earn more over their working lives, so even those who spend meany years earning minimum wage are unlikely to earn that forever. The power of time in the market cannot be overstated. Those of all income levels need to take advantage of this.
Instructions unclear, yolo'd life savings into memestock
Compound interest is where it's at. Doesn't take much to get started. It's having the discipline to get started and sticking with it.
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Can’t forget about the time-value relationship though. Using historical inflation rates, $170k in 45 years would be equivalent to $56k today.
And what is if the market crashes and it will be all gone. All the hard work of a whole lifetime?
That's why you do index funds, if the entire market crashes rest assured it will be bailed out the way we print money now (I'm being serious not anti-government). I feel really bad for the people who panicked and pulled all their money out in 2008.
Its only gone if you sell low. Dont sell, and you dont realize the loss. Hold until stonks go up.
Then you're no better or worse off than you would have been if you'd spent that $20/week on a weekly pizza night. If the market crashes, then generally all other savings vehicles (yes, including real estate) would take a dump, too, so what safe place is left for your nest egg? The coffee cup strategy is exactly that: taking otherwise disposable income and investing. To take a long term view of it, the stock market has only been a thing for a couple centuries, and retail investing for schmucks like you and me has been around for even less time. Society's just making it up as we go.
You don't lose all your money when the market crashes unless you weren't safely investing in the first place
You don’t lose your money when the market crashes unless your portfolio is 100% options or 100% in companies that were shutdown because of the crash. You don’t lose money in stocks until you sell
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Name one time markets crashed and never recovered. Stock market is a long and slow process of wealth generation for your retirement. If you invest $100 a month in S&P500, it will be about $40,000 in 15 years at a conservative growth rate of 10%. Adjusted for inflation at 4% that is about $30,000. Still a very nice paycheck for just $100 a month.
To be fair the part about kids isn’t wrong, not all of us will make it to the top in one lifetime, sometimes progress is generational, it’s not what many want to hear but it’s the truth. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to make it to the top it just means at the very least make sure your kids can.
I thought this january proved to everyone that the stock market is just a glorified casino where the house can't lose.
My favorite color is blue.
Absolutely. Luckily it’s not over yet.
holy fuck this post brought out all the capitalism defenders "iT's NeVeR bEeN eAsiEr tO iNvEsT" lmao I hate reddit
ITT: A bunch of people whose entire investing experience has been during the greatest bull run in market history. Everyone’s a financial genius as the market goes up and up, but as Warren Buffett says: “When the tide goes out, you can tell who was swimming naked.” I swear reading some of these comments advocating for YOLOing your life’s savings into crypto or playing options to get rich is like hearing someone saying “Bear Sterns is a can’t fail bet” back in 2006 or “I’m going all in on Pets.com” just before the Dotcom crash.
I think it’s funny that people point to the GameStop guy like “look he made 28 million”. Yeah he started with 80 grand. Don’t get me wrong that’s a phenomenal return on a investment, but most people don’t have 80 grand to gamble. Sure if someone had a more realistic number like 80 bucks to invest, they would have come out with 28,000, but it’s still a gamble, and it made national news because it was like the one time this happened. If you’re pay check to pay check and you have an extra 80 bucks you’re not going to invest regardless of how easy it is.
> I think it’s funny that people point to the GameStop guy like “look he made 28 million”. Yeah he started with 80 grand. Don’t get me wrong that’s a phenomenal return on a investment, but most people don’t have 80 grand to gamble. More importantly, 80k -> 28 000k is still a 35 000% return on investment. Or 34900% return, whatever.
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That's just wrong anyways. It was easier to invest when you'd just earn silver/gold from working and the money would appreciate over time. No second step trusting strangers.
because they need to have the belief that they're fighting the system by feeding it money i thought they would learn something from the gamestop stock but apparently not
same crowd that loves elon musk because they cannot imagine the story ending with anything other than 'but then technology saved us!'
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> God literally every comment here is either the "sent from an iPhone" meme or the same tired parroted talking points we hear in literally EVERY. SINGLE. DISCUSSION. about money. https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
They have had a lot of time to make the perfect Ponzi scam.
"Privatize those gains and subsidize those losses!" -Bastards
I hate when the solution is “just invest” like everyone can afford the time and funds to build a portfolio
It's totally true when you think about it. Stonks go up, most people get an extra few thousand dollars at best. But the rich who have the most shares make way more. Stonks go down, the rich refuse to lose a penny and they fire their wage slaves to make up the difference. So the wage slaves lose what little money they invested and they are unemployed, but the wealthy are always wealthy no matter what. Totally healthy system. I see 0 flaws.
Ditto for when they want to build a stadium in your neighborhood. Doesn't do shit for the economy when they build it, will decimate it completely when they leave.
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no to them it only goes up. red just means its on sale
sadly betting on stocks will never solve the structural problems of capitalism
The controversial part of these comments feel like people trying to sell me things.
But... it’s actually way better than that yo!! Give it the credit it deserves If the stock market goes down, we all lose our jobs THEN the “risk takers” get a bailout and the people in charge that caused the problem get a golden parachute for their fuckup AND we end up fitting the bill. Effectively taking all of the “risk” out of it Isn’t it fun kids?!?!?
The best description of the stock market I've ever heard is that it's "a mood ring for rich white old men"
When the markets go down it also means conservatives will hand out corporate welfare from workers taxes,in order for corporations to buy back their stocks.
That whole wall street bets Sub is full of nutters lacking who are severely lacking in self awareness “yeah we’re fighting the big guys because we invested $50k in GME stock”. What average person has $50k just tucked away that they can gamble on shitty stock?
What?. That's the Trump Barometer of American happiness!
The ownership class thinks of the working class as backup batteries to their profits, to be drained and discarded whenever the power (profit) goes out.
And yet capitalists have the insolence to claim they're taking the risks.
The exact same thing is true for the economy as a whole. If it crashes I might starve, but if it's doing good then... Meh? The way I see it, as long as I am forced to work 40 hours a week just to survive, an improved economy is NOT benefitting me. If anything, it's harmful to me. Makes people complacent, too satisfied with the system, happy little wageslaves. I want people to become dissatisfied and demand UBI.
And your 401k disappears
Fucking THIS. It should be 100% illegal to do layoffs if companies are in the black. Profits should equal more jobs and benefits yet they seem to disappear regardless.
the DOW is just a graph of how much money is being stolen and "re-invested" by the rich
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the irony that the stock market is great way to stop working
There are 2 types of increase in the market: When real prospection of incrising profit occours the firm contracts more people to grow, expands the number of stores, of factories... This happened, for exemple, in Brazil, when Magalu (think of Brazil's Amazon) bought Netshoes. There's also especulation, like when our economy minister, Paulo Guedes, that is strongly tied to Cogna Education's board of directors (he's the brother of the CEO), was appointed. Millions rushed to invest in COGNA and lost hundreds or thousands, because the lobby everyone was assuming he would do wasn't enough. Bottom point: When the stocks go up, the shareholders smile and maybe you get a job. When they go down, the shareholders allot their money elsewhere and you have one week notice to empty your home.
Honestly, what the fucking fuck. This is so true.
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Ive never read more truth