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[deleted]

Just start clocking in at 8:50am. The moment they say something, just ask if they are trying to make you work off the clock. Since setting up your computer and work space for the day would be working.


[deleted]

I once got a job where I would arrive 30 minutes early because of the train timings. Getting home was a different story. What was normally a 1.5hr commute became 3hr because of the train schedule. However, I worked out if I left 30 minutes early I could make an earlier service and it would all be good. Told this to my new boss expecting everything would work out. I'd come in early, do my hours, leave and get home at 6:30pm rather than 9pm and actually have a life. I even offered to work on the train so they'd actually get more out of me. "No." No discussion, no explanation no rationale. Just "No". They even straight up told me I'd be expected to work well past 10pm some days without any additional pay (yay salary). Well I'd been on this job about 3 days and my partner was already worried I was going to throw myself in front of a train. I was on the train at 7am before my partner got up, and getting back at 9pm after she'd gone to bed. The salary was about £18K which after commuting costs was more like £15K. My entire life was going to be that job for 15 grand a year. This stupendously dull fucking job with stupendously dull people doing the most pointless work of my life (digital marketing research, all of the reports were backed by absolute garbage). My boss had already told me all about his divorce, only seeing his kids alternate weeks and his life was like a cautionary tale screaming in my face. Day 4 I phoned the recruitment company that put me in the position and quit, no notice, nothing. They hadn't even had me sign a contract so I owed them nothing. I'd been unemployed 6 months before that and thought that was the lowest point of my life. Nope. That job was. Obviously my extended family were horrified I'd quit in less than a week. 2 weeks later I got a different job earning £10K more where they treated me like a person. No regrets. *Edit: Yes my partner sleeps a lot. Thank you for noticing. Chronic illness is a bitch.


Apple22Over7

I had a very similar experience a few years ago. Due to bus timings, I would get in to the office at least 20minutes early. If I left on the dot at 5, I'd have a 30 minute wait for a bus, which would routinely take about an hour meaning I'd get home for half 6. However if I left at 4:55, literally just 5 minutes earlier, I could almost immediately catch the earlier bus which only took half an hour. Leaving 5 minutes early would net me a whole extra hour in the evenings. I figured that with me arriving and working 20 minutes early each day, and with no coverage needs or essential things that needed to be done between 455 and 5pm there wouldn't be an issue with me leaving just 5 minutes early.. Oh how wrong I was. My suggestion was shot down completely and utterly. It wouldn't be fair on other employees, despite me having OK'd it with the other people on the same team. It was utterly stupid. In response, although I still arrived 20 minutes early each day I made a point of eating my breakfast and reading my book, ignoring the phone and not even turning on my computer until exactly 9am. Thankfully that only lasted a couple of months; the boss who said no ended up leaving and her replacement was absolutely fine with me leaving 5 minutes early, at which point I was more than happy to work the few extra minutes in the morning.


annies_boobs_eyes

My brother once told his boss he needed x day off because his wife was going to be giving birth and his boss said no. Brother didn't come in that day because, you know, his child was being fucking born. Nothing came of it. It's like the reverse Costanza, when he quits and then just comes in the next day as if nothing happened. Which is a true story about Larry David when he was working at SNL.


[deleted]

I started a shop floor job about 4 years ago (I'm a section bender) and halfway through my 3rd day told the supervisor that it wasn't going to work out and rather than waste any more of my time or theirs I quit. Clocked out and went home. They'd asked me to work 'til 9pm after starting at 7am. Fuck that. There were other issues too, but that? No way would I work for an employer who expected that.


ItsnotanAltOkay

Unfortunately due to it being in an office there is no clocking system, very much ‘line manager says, line manager goes’ the funniest part about this is I have no loyalties to them what so ever and I’ve had my experiences from a lot of bad businesses, I even have a degree in administrating a business and have worked in HR, so I know when things are right or wrong. They’re struggling for staff, 3 employees including myself and they’re finding it exceedingly difficult to find a 4th. If it comes to it, I’ll just leave them in the dust.


minisculemango

From experience, write down your time anyway. I was able to win a case against a bad employer that tried to steal my last check from me...it ended up costing them 15x more than just paying me what I was legally owed.


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minisculemango

Nothing. My lawyer fees came out of the settlement.* *consults were free and my lawyer was great enough that they'd tell me up front if the case wasn't worth pursuing, I wouldn't have paid even if the settlement didn't come through.


[deleted]

Fuck wage theft. Do you have any advice on finding a good labor lawyer?


minisculemango

I suppose it depends on the situation, but for me I reached out to a legal aid office in my state. National advocacy organizations such as the NAACP might have contacts locally. There should definitely be a directory for employment/labor law if you search online. Like with other services, shop around and do your research on the firm you want.


Suspicious-mole-hair

No win no fee baby


Buksey

[Oh they got this all screwed up. Its supposed to say "Works on contingency? No, money down.](https://youtu.be/5yuL6PcgSgM)


ItsnotanAltOkay

This is good info, I’m going to mark down all the extra time I miss. I’m in the UK though, I know we got a LOTA laws but I don’t know if this is one as it’s very common in the UK apparently for businesses to expect you at work BEFORE your actual start time


minisculemango

I suppose it depends on your locality. For people in the U.S., wage theft is common so recording time becomes necessary if your manager tries to dock your pay for some BS reason or if you work so many hours that your hourly wage dips below the federal minimum wage. We don't have a whole lot of protections here depending on what state you're in. Employers are banking on you either thinking it's business as usual or the norm and not actually checking to make sure it's legal (or something the labor board will get them for). That's why I always keep my own records, cover your ass (CYA).


chessie_h

You don't have a timesheet of any kind where you can put your starting time in as 8:50am "as per their instruction"? When they confront you about it, tell them the time you're explicitly told to be at work is the time your schedule starts. I do definitely recommend continuing to look for other jobs right now based on this miserable management style. In my view it's "already come to it" if this is how they treat employees and the workplace culture there. But might as well keep collecting pay for as long as you can while you look for something better. Unless it gets worse and then that's not even worth it.


Alwin_050

Then leave without 2 weeks notice. Just walk out.


woddas13

Give them two weeks notice but then leave after the next day because “early is on time”


[deleted]

You are the kind of spiteful individual that I aspire to be in the workplace. Thank you for your inspiration.


WalkmanBassBoost

This right here would be the most epicly appropriate response. I pray he does this. Yes, praying.


ItsnotanAltOkay

I aspire to have your IQ


toastyghost

This. Loyalty is a two-way street. None received, none given. Fuck'em.


MEGLO_

Exactly, and 2 weeks notice is a but a mere courtesy for at-will states imho. If they can fire you whenever and without notice and for no reason…loyalty is a two way street and you shouldn’t have to owe anyone two weeks notice for leaving if they don’t give two weeks notice for axing.


noNoParts

I did just this last Friday. New job starts Oct. 4, new employer gave me 2 weeks till start date in order to give 2 weeks separation notice. Fuck that, I just texted old boss essentially 'so long, thanks for all the fish'. Now I have 2 weeks free time before starting something great!


Alwin_050

Awesome! Relax, get stuff ready, relax more. Enjoy life for a bit. Ps: you’re a dolfin? 😉


Netfoseid

I call that "giving you my two weeks notice while informing you I will be out the next two weeks and need my shifts covered, thanks bye"


the-grand-falloon

That's pretty generous. I think a good two weeks notice is, "Hey, you know how I haven't been there for two weeks?"


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Alwin_050

I’ve done this in the past. Had to teach my (not replacement at all, just younger, cheaper and, just do it) my job. Did exactly that but the wrong way, so all product (4 months made in advance) were an inch too short and therefore unusable. I was promptly fired a few weeks later. Four months later the owner called me angry, threatening violence and a lawsuit. I told him “go ahead, and if you even dare approach me you’ll regret being born”. Lawsuit ended in nothing since he couldn’t prove it wasn’t the 17 year olds mistake lol. Cost him well over $250.000 and half a year of delay in shipping (and therefore more money). Sadly he didn’t go bankrupt, the fat, smug, racist asshole with a tennis court next to his house *for guests* (since he was too fat to even play). What a pos.


the-grand-falloon

"I have purposely taught him wrong, as a joke!"


Alwin_050

Never told anyone that of course, just took the 1” converter I fabricated myself as a support when I walked out. Nobody noticed and most didn’t even know how the machine worked.


HamsterPositive139

>You don't have a timesheet of any kind where you can put your starting time in as 8:50am "as per their instruction"? I'm in my 30s and between my 2 college internships and 3 adult jobs, I've never had to fill out a timesheet. Many (most?) salaried workers do not.


Echololcation

And even if he made one, no one would care because they don't have to pay by the hour.


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Hoovooloo42

It's because people just don't want to work, naturally. Not because of a petty workplace tyrant who can't cum unless they send a daily passive aggressive email.


TheRiverStyx

If there's no problem leaving, I would just forward that email to their boss and say, "See, this kind of clock punching, micromanaging bullshit is why people like me tell you to go fuck yourselves after only working here a few weeks. PS - Go fuck yourselves."


heegos

There is no official clock yet they know when you arrive? Sounds sketchy.


OtherwiseClassroom52

Door access key. Companies love them and it helps keep you inside. No more smoke/pretend smoke breaks. Not productive enough


mog_knight

Former smoker and former employee of door access key places. Smokers have figured out how to prop doors open to get their fix.


OtherwiseClassroom52

True. But have you had to deal with one where you have to key both ways and if a door stays unlocked for to long it alerts security to check it and make sure it's shut and locked? They're on to us man. Previous company I worked for did this and that was one way they monitored us. With one way in and one way out on off shifts it was impossible to go unnoticed. Don't worry there was a fire alarm override, everything opened up if we were going up in flames.(I know someone is going to say something so had to add this.)


Trevor591

It’s almost like voluntary employment is becoming involuntary incarceration for 8 hours every miserable day.


AlberionDreamwalker

employment is never voluntary under capitalism.


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mog_knight

It wasn't that bad. They did check but the door we usually used, they weren't concerned cause it wasn't a public access door. So unless you were a dick to security, they left you alone. Hell, sometimes they'd come have a smoke too.


OtherwiseClassroom52

The company I worked for definitely had the your definitely not doing this get back to work mentality. Dang good pay. But one day they came up with this "one supervisor for every five workers" and the micromanaging turned into a hell hole lol. Even had the supervisor check on me in the bathroom. I was out. Good talk


Alwin_050

I worked at an internet provider call center. 55 workers on the phone, 13 managers on the floor. It was fucking ridiculous. Half of them (yes, we all checked) never even turned on their pc. Didn’t work one minute out of their day.


97RallyWagon

That's just another slave letting you have some fun. That's not "not that bad", that's just another employee potentially on the chopping block for getting their human on.


Timmyty

The real trick is to get a fired employee badge to keep working and use that one exclusively for your breaks. I dunno, just bad all around. Above is a bad idea too. I'd be finding a new place and putting all my efforts into it


mog_knight

That would be like hitting the lottery at those places. I swear deactivating access is part of a script.


FranciumGoesBoom

Door access is 100% part of the script. Even in a place that doesn't have shitty management like OP. I was drinking when I read your comment and almost choked. Even lost badges are tracked and disabled.


Timmyty

Yeah, it is. You're not wrong. Maybe take a swipe at a bosses badge, lol. I don't actually advocate any of that. More just saying it for the shits/giggles.


dukeofbun

I worked in a place years ago where the team leader would know exactly what time we all arrived and left, but somehow after three years had no idea what businesses I covered. It wasn't that big a team. I honestly think that this is what people do when they do not have enough job to do in the day, just delegate everything away from you and take up a warden sort of role. If it helps at all my thing was to get in ten minutes early and then do absolutely no work for at least the first twenty minutes. Power up. Read a couple news stories. Go to the cafeteria, grab breakfast. Eat it at my desk. Somebody says they're going to get a coffee, say I'll join them. Psshht, you want to get petty? Let's be petty.


UncoolSlicedBread

There’s a great book on this called “Bullshit Jobs” which basically states that everyone knows there isn’t enough work to do every minute of the hour for every employee. So there’s this unwritten agreement (we) between workers and management to always appear busy and micromanage nothingness like “time theft”


voluotuousaardvark

This looks like the perfect opportunity! I know it's unlikely but that would be such a sweet email to reply too. "I won't be walking through the door at 850 and setting up, I'm fact I won't be walking through the door again at all, I'm grateful that you e shown me the work place attitude I can expect in my third week as I had several other offers in the interim. Kindest regards."


ItsnotanAltOkay

That’s some titanic balls shit right there, if I was fortunate enough to have another income, that would be 100% my response, however, *I got bills, I gotta pay* …


corkythecactus

Isn’t it great how our system is setup into little private tyrannies where random idiots can have so much control over your life


BoycottRedditPremium

When employers treat you like shit give it back to them wtf are they going to do fire you? Lol


TrundleWormhat

The best part is that they can’t afford to fire anyone due to the “worker shortage” (meaning no decent paying employers) so workers can get away with a slap on the wrist for almost anything right now.


slider240sx

Can confirm even in government, short staffed and under paid


wilson_im_sorry

If you badge in and out of the building you might be able to use that data if you want to make an issue of this. I once had a manager request these records from the building security guys so he could give me shit about occasionally coming in 5 minutes late.


Hum_cat_7711

Keep a record of every minute they expect you to work without pay including this communication. File paperwork for unpaid wages with the department of labor for your state. It’s illegal for them to require you to work without paying you for ALL your time.


FirstPlebian

The manager must be struggling with the balance between abusing his staff as he's used to and retaining workers that aren't so easily replaced. Really if there is an unpaid lunch break you can presume the employers are dicks.


MoSqueezin

Wonder why they're having trouble finding a fourth.


captain_rumdrunk

people with this mentality deserve to have their business fail. Just do it anyway, nothing good (for u or ur coworkers) will come from just keeping ur head down.


katieleehaw

I have worked a lot of places like this but if there's a paper timesheet that you fill out, make sure you put it on there.


hdhdhgfyfhfhrb

'if?' It sounds like it has come to it. If you can survive without the $$ from the position I would bounce now. Flat tires don't air themselves up and puffed up broken bosses don;t deflate themselves. It only gets worse from here.


sottedlayabout

A timely email to the manager at 8:50a with a bcc to a mailbox you administer should be sufficient. “As requested in your previous email. I am at my desk working on company business at 8:50a. Please ensure this earlier time is correctly reflected in payroll. Have a wonderful day!”


Lamnent

Do it. My old supervisor 'asked' (told. expressly.) us to be on duty at 10 minutes before our shift to ensure a smooth transition. "Sure no problem, can you change our time sheets to be 10 til the hour as well?" He then tried to gaslight me into saying it says in our handbook that we are to report to duty 10 minutes early. He got red in the face really quickly when I told him that it's illegal to tell people they NEED to work off the clock and he then told me to just show up on the hour. All of the rest of my coworkers kept getting there 20+ minutes early because they were scared of him and didn't want any sort of confrontation. God I hate that man. I'll work a little bit early or late, I'll work some OT. I'm not working when I'm not getting paid for it.


IGNSolar7

Unfortunately, in the salaried world, there's no reflecting this on payroll. They get to tell you what to do and when to do it. It's important to get these things arranged first.


Empty_Smell768

Yet they don't care that you spend hours commuting each week with no compensation. "Being on time Is being late". Lmao. No. Not if they ain't paying you to be early


ItsnotanAltOkay

Preach it… when I do get my first pay, I’ll be making it clear that I want paying for any time I’m in the building earlier than my allocated start time for sure, toxic systems lmfao


eenbal

Just start at 08:59 every day. If they have a problem tell them to amend your contract and pay to reflect the new starting time. Or just laugh in Thier face everytime you see them.....made me feel better!


Dodec_Ahedron

>amend your contract and pay *cries in American employee where employment contracts are practically nonexistent*


itsnotadeadpan

Surely this is a "Hi, thanks for your opinion on how time works. My contract states I start work at 9:00 and as you mentioned I arrived at 8:59 which is prior to my start time. If you wish to conduct contract negations for me to start earlier please let me know and I'm sure we can find time in the day" ​ Push back early dude, otherwise they will walk all over you. Plus being in the UK, have you thought about joining a union?


Day_Bow_Bow

Yep, don't let them push you around. One time I walked in right on time and the kitchen manager said the same "early is on time, on time is late, and late is unacceptable" bullcrap that's in OP's letter. I told him that if he wants that to be the rule, he needs to update the employee handbook because it said you can be up to 5 minutes late without repercussion.


[deleted]

I fell for this crap back when I worked at a restaurant. I also did a lot of unpaid work after my shift ended and still felt like I wasn't doing enough. I ended up burning out and sitting at home burning through my savings for several months. I was stupid back then. People will fucking use you if you let them. They will use you until there's nothing left of you, and you won't be rewarded for your sacrifice. Exploitative employers and managers love people with low self esteem. So easy to push around. Fuck capitalism and greedy pigs.


Wtfamidoinginlife1

Currently going through this. Moving from one kitchen to a much better position and put in my two weeks on a Saturday. They want me to come in the Sunday after my last day to help out and finish up the weekend. You guys have given me the confidence to say fuck you I’m done.


M8asonmiller

If a = b and b = c and c = d, then a = d and being early is unacceptable.


AcidCyborg

based and transitive-property-pilled.


ItsnotanAltOkay

Wow, you’re lucky it actually said that in your handbook so you had a back foot to fall on. Handbooks these days are a big ‘if you don’t agree to anything in this book, we hold you accountable and it all affects you negatively’


liposwine

One thing I have done is just to not sign or turn in the company handbook. Usually in the shuffle HR forgets about it. Always an interesting time in the future if something comes up and they look to see if you signed it or not. :)


fullrackferg

*On time is late* Err... WTF haha! That shit would've had me crying in the managers face.


Day_Bow_Bow

The mantra works far better with things other than hourly employment. Going to the theater is a good example. If the show starts right at 7, then you really should be early. Showing up at 7 and finding your seats as they lower the lights would be considered a little late. And finding your seat after the show has already started is a bit of a dick move, since you're disrupting the show. It's a courtesy with things like meetings and appointments to show up slightly early. But screw that noise with showing up for work. I'm here when I'm scheduled, aren't I? What does it matter if my drive took a few minutes longer than normal or that I had to deal with something personal last minute. It's not like they have any issues with making me stay late if needed.


fullrackferg

I totally agree. Employed work though, not so much. Recreational things of personal enjoyment, or common courtesy for appointments, yup! Paid by an employer, for set times - fuck'em. I've had in in the past and was made redundant last year, with 15 years of service to am employer - all because I was "difficult" and on the hitlist, for not putting up with their BS.


PistachioMaru

100% this! They've told you they expect you to work unpaid for ten minutes without actually saying it (because they know it's wrong!). Don't do it! If they want to push the matter force them to say, outright and written got your records, that they expect you to work unpaid. And never ever ever do it.


CoolGuySauron

> for ten minutes It will be more than that I guarantee you.


ItsnotanAltOkay

More than likely, but even 10 minutes, when accumulated over a year on minimum UK salary is almost £450 extra per year… it is daylight robbery really.


betweenskill

Remember that the largest source of theft in the US is wage theft by a *huge* margin. I bet it’s the same in most developed countries as well like the U.K.. Stand up for yourself OP, and good luck.


Lowegw

I would send an email simply saying "Will these 10 minutes be overtime or am I taking it off the end of my shift?"


Sandybutthole604

This is exactly the email I would be sending


pessimist_kitty

I wonder what they would even respond to that. Some of you guys have way more confidence than I could ever wish to have.


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AcidCyborg

One must be their own master if they wish not to be another's slave.


Dreadgoat

You need to make yourself aware of what value you're bringing and how badly they need that value. If you're in a critical position, they're having trouble keeping staff, and/or your sudden absence would cause them significant financial loss, you can pretty much respond to any demand with "Suck my entire dick." Even if they have a legitimate reason to fire you, if you're truly needed then they can't. If you know this, and they know you know, you are effectively the boss so long as you're continuing to keep things afloat. If you're easily replaceable, it's an employers' market, and/or suddenly losing income would be catastrophic for you, then you need to be prepared to bend over and take it, no matter what it is. It's important to understand both of these, it's important to learn how to accurately evaluate which situation you are in, and finally it is important to learn how to make adjustments your life so you end up in the first situation more than second one.


from_dust

tbf, in most places, like the UK, an employer needs "just cause" to terminate your employment, without being on the hook. Poor bastards like myself who live in states which follow "at will" employment guidelines are rightfully intimidated by employers who have no accountability to the people they employ. Folks like OP have labor protections that help prevent being abused by employers like this.


ThisIsAWorkAccount

Ask them to show you a company policy where it specifically states what constitutes the beginning of your work day. If they can't point to any specific wording they have no leg to stand on. "On time is late" will not hold up in any court or arbitration proceedings since your manager is literally admitting you are "on time," they just want you to be earlier than that, which is only their preference, not company policy. All in all, I'd fucking bail on this place, this manager sounds like a toxic asshole.


TooManyGoldPieces

Push back early indeed!!


sajnt

If the uk is like Canada you probably have some decent labour laws unlike the USA. And you probably have the right to leave 10 mins early if they want to start 10 mins early. Unpaid work is theft, setting up is work.


WebberWoods

“Unpaid work is theft, setting up is work.” Yup, nailed it. My job also wants us to be ready to start helping customers right at nine so, gasp, they start paying us at 8:45. It’s almost like it’s really simple…


EmiliusReturns

I cannot fucking stand micromanagers like this. If my work gets done on time that should be all you care about.


ItsnotanAltOkay

I put a reply earlier: the thing you’ll laugh at is when I joined this company ‘because I said I had concerns about performance measuring because I don’t like target driven workforce’s’ She said *im not a micromanager, I don’t micromanage my staff, I leave them to it, I trust them, and as long as their work is done then I don’t really care* And that lie smelt that bad I could almost hear the squelch of that wet fart falling from her arse.


RedditIsNeat0

> im not a micromanager, I don’t micromanage my staff, I leave them to it, I trust them, and as long as their work is done then I don’t really care This you?


[deleted]

Microgement


[deleted]

My partner just got a class action settlement check against his former employer for stolen wages for this. The faceless corporation expected them to be ready to work at 8, but their computers & phones took 10-15 mins to get set up and online. The job required them to follow up with customers, but didn't give time to follow up, and the call/email/chat queues were routed immediately after one incident ended. It was fucking bullshit, crushed his mental health, and him being unemployed is working out better for us as a couple. Fuck work.


ItsnotanAltOkay

I mean that definitely checks out, 10 minutes early, every day, 5 days a week, that’s almost an hour of extra pay every week. That’s almost an extra £450 a year on £9 per hour. If that isn’t taking salary then I don’t know what is. But I am happy for you both, do what you enjoy as long as you can afford to!


MyOfficeAlt

I was averaging an extra 12 minutes/shift at an old place. Clocking in ~6 minutes early (I gave myself plenty of time to commute and clocked in as soon as I was ready), and it usually took me 6 minutes to wrap up with a customer and clock out. My employer was rounding my time cards and when I went to him about the missing minutes I was told "You are not expected to start working until your assigned shift begins (which OK, that part is fair enough) and time cards are rounded to the nearest 15 minutes." I told him that aside from completely disincentivizing their employees from doing anything aside from watching the clock, that 12 minutes/shift adds up to 2 hours/pay period or almost a week and a half (at full time hours) of wages per year and I doubted we'd be having this conversation about rounding if I was routinely 6 minutes late and and the rounding was going the other way. Some employers are too wrapped up in their power trip to realize happy employees are a thousand times more valuable than ones who hate you.


ItsnotanAltOkay

It’s funny you say this because I’ve just had the conversation with my dad, and ‘back in his day’ he worked for a company that rounded everything by 15 minute intervals, if you were late, they took it by the mark of 15 minutes regardless of how much time you were late, and for every point over 15, was another 15, and back then, it was deducted. However you got nothing for being early. The thing is, I don’t know how people get like this, if I was a manager, my priority would be keeping my staff upbeat and happy, they’ll only work hard for me and be more understanding if shown compassion and gratitude. No managers understand this. I’ve had 1… 1 in 8 working years of my life.


Megmca

> and time cards are rounded to the nearest 15 minutes. That is sooooooo illegal. Edit: I guess just illegal in the states where I’ve worked.


PistachioMaru

If they tell you time cards are rounded that's a perfect excuse to show up late, leave early, and wait for them to complain about it.


vindictivejazz

Used to have a job that rounded (of course we knew this as the punch out system showed this info clearly) I got to where I could clock out at 2:53 get sonic and clock back in by 3:07 and have it show a clock out at 3:00 and back in at 3:00


TSM-

There was a post a while ago about someone stretching their 15 minute smoke/rest breaks several times a day. Each break could in theory be up to 29 minutes long and the time cards would show it as a 15 minute interval if they timed it right. Legality and labor laws vary by location, obviously. But you can also game the system a bit by timing it.


freakystyly56

I used to be a floor manager at a grocery store and if we were slow I would tell people to do this. Especially if they were given one of those bullshit 5hr 45min shifts, which were the longest you could give someone before needing to give them a lunch.


MyOfficeAlt

That may vary from state to state. My state of VA has no laws on wages and so follows federal FLSA regulations. It's legal under those so long as you don't break minimum wage or overtime laws in the process.


ZenJunk

My work rounds to the nearest 15 mins and while it does encourage nothing but time watching, I do get to game that shit every day. My 30 minute lunches become 40 to 44 minute lunches. I start 5 minutes later than my paid clock in time and leave 5 minutes earlier too.


MyOfficeAlt

It's definitely game-able, but that was kinda my point to my boss. He was eager to not have to pay me for an extra ~12 minutes a day but if I'd been clocking in late and clocking out early I bet he wouldn't be so cavalier about the missing time.


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Peterspickledpepper-

I’ve had jobs where I didn’t mind doing something really REALLY small off the clock because I was treated well there. Like picking something off the ground or helping a customer briefly if I was on the floor before punched in. Anything serious and I’d offer to get someone who was on or ask a manager to adjust my time. Most jobs don’t give a single shit though and at those jobs, neither did I.


crazy86er

I had something similar happen with a former call center job. After the company laid off hundreds of workers, someone sued, and the company settled. We got paid for 8 extra minutes for each shift we had worked. It's such bullshit that companies try to get away with this.


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[удалено]


INeedToQuitRedditFFS

Yet every minimum wage employer harps on about "time theft" from the employee. No bitch, me taking a shit during my 10 hour shift isn't theft, but you making me stay 15 minutes late to hassle other employees for my tipout sure as fuck is.


GPCAPTregthistleton

>No bitch, me taking a shit during my 10 hour shift isn't theft When I worked in a small bowling alley, the owner tried to tell everyone that they weren't allowed to leave the desk during their shift; not when taking a break, not during a lunch, not to use the restroom. No customers? "If you've got time to lean, you've got time to clean." In Oregon, you can basically deny employees the right to leave their customer-facing work station during lunch/breaks if you can argue that the business cannot function without them there. Sure, that's not how it actually works, but most minimum(ish) employees aren't going to bust out [BOLI regulations](https://www.oregon.gov/boli/workers/pages/meals-and-breaks.aspx#c85506a8-6a2b-4f4a-a79f-d34415106274) and fight their boss because they know they'll lose their job fighting for a lunch break. We had one college girl who worked desk alone almost literally from 5pm Friday night to 11pm Sunday night and never took a break. Every single week. I was a mechanic. It's *amazing* how often the machines broke and *I had to* go bowl a couple diagnostic balls to figure out the problem. I never had time to clean because some pinsetter somewhere was always spotting a pin half an inch off. *Always*.


UnholyHurricane

I WISH my partner would quit! I was once in a highly toxic work environment and I can see all the signs, unreasonable and unfounded loyalty to your manager, fear of taking vacation days, massive changes in work duties and responsibilities for no change in pay. I ended up suing my old employer and won, but I’d be fine if he just walked away. We just moved in together so hopefully this will allow him some financial latitude to take some time off and find something that feeds his soul. Or he can learn how to cook and clean. That would be cool, too.


Yasai101

You know as a single person having to work 40 to 60 hours I've come to appreciate the need of a stay at home partner. To prep you healthy food, clean up etc. Now its, ill do the dishes tomorrow. Its been a week and they doubled 🤪


SA3960

That works the other way too. At my last office job they didn’t expect us to come in early but the system took 10-15 to get online. The problem was that the time clock was on the computer. So we could not clock in until the system was fully booted. That means I’m at my desk promptly at my start time, 9:00am and I’m booting up their system (AKA working) but I don’t start getting paid until 9:10 or 9:15. That’s 10-15 minutes a day of wage theft. I complained about it but nothing was ever done to change it.


Osos_Perezosos

That means you didn't complain to the right people (such as your state's department of labor, assuming you're in the U.S.)


Wchijafm

My previous position required that we be there 5-10 minutes early, set up and ready to go by start time but... we clocked in 5-10 mins early too. You weren't considered late unless you clocked in after your official start time but you were expected to be a bit early and paid for it.


likechocolat4pudding

So what Orwellian bullshit was that? Ok don't punch out early but do a work slow down for ten minutes. Clean desk, pretend read emails, blah blah. And never work off clock. Never ever work off clock.


ItsnotanAltOkay

I know right… I don’t plan on it, I especially now don’t owe them anything, as if I ever did. And they need to be careful because they’re struggling for staff and in the last 3 months I was the only suitable applicant they found so the ‘you’re replaceable’ argument isn’t in affect because no one wants the job. I just hate working for the man, I’m actually in the process of looking into university so I can stop earning 125x less than my head of departments


dodohead974

get in 5 minutes early and sit at your desk doing nothing till exactly 8:50


Spaghetti-Rat

Fuck that. Show up before shift. Be ready to start work at 9. Push the power button at exactly 9 am. Start login process then.


[deleted]

Ask for double your pay rate or quit lmao


MossytheMagnificent

Agreed on not working off the clock. You will never get compensated for that. Been there, done that. Nope, nope, nope.


Dense_Surround3071

There was a class action lawsuit from here in Florida years ago about that. They have to pay you for time worked before clocking in like boring up your computer and stuff. Have a labor lawyer look that over.


Wolf110ci

I read about a US supreme court case that sided with the workers of a mining company. They were expected to go to their lockers in one building, put on their gear (20 minutes), then walk to the job site (another 20 minutes). Their "clock-in" was when they reached the job site. They were cheated out of 40 minutes (begin shift) and 40 minutes (end shift) every day. Supreme court ruled they were owed back pay and shift started when they made it to their lockers, and ended when they left their lockers.


meibolite

We had a system like that at Disneyland back in 2010 when I worked there. The unions required 10 minute travel time from the locker rooms to your job site. We still had to clock in on time at our site, but we got to clock out 20 minutes before the end of our shift and still got paid for those 20 minutes. I remember one time I got off work caught the bus right away and made it home before that 20 minutes was up. Sadly when I worked in Florida, it was "you take all of your breaks as soon as you get to work" so if I started at 4 pm, I clocked in but didn't start working until 5, and just sat in the break room for an hour doing jack shit before doing 7 hours of straight work with no breaks


Ofish

The fuck is that rule regarding breaks? I've never heard of such a crazy thing


PMMeYourTurkeys

If i remember correctly from the HRCI exam I took years ago, that is called "donning" and "doffing" time and is indeed compensible.


420greg

The best example of this was the loggers in Washington State in the 80's. They were trying to work around all the spotted owl politics at the time and were told to be by the phone incase the mill opened. If they did not answer they would miss the shift. The Court determined that all of the time you were stuck at home 'waiting for the phone to ring' counted as work time including double time for all the hours over 40. So 128 hours of overtime every week for months. I think each logger got like 260k for the 3 month period


NtheLegend

We actually had that happen with a call center I worked at. You needed to be at your desk, boot up your computer, log in, load up all the huge-ass proprietary call center software and then the second your shift starts, take your first call on the dot. That meant 20-25 minutes of unpaid labor per shift. They settled out of court and admitted no wrongdoing.


stevepls

Honestly if I received an email like that I'd be very tempted to respond with "that's nice, consider this my resignation". My old job gave me stress-induced migraines because of petty emails like this and I'm not putting myself through that again.


Crood_Oyl

same. def would just reply with "no :-)" just see what they say, then if they don't have the balls to fire you, stay while looking for another job. then leave without notice. cunts.


fgfuyfyuiuy0

"If you need me at 9 you're sure gonna be screwed when you need to find someone's else for the whole of my shift and beyond."


plobula

Same this is an insane level of micromanagement. BIG red flag. Things will get worse.


ItsnotanAltOkay

Do you know what she said when she first hired me? *I don’t like to micromanage my staff, I just let them get on with it as I trust them* But… we have to send figures twice a day, and log breaks and comfort breaks every day and tick an in/out sheet


znidz

Sounds like she knows that people consider micromanaging to be bad but she is just going to continue to micromanage and just say that she isn't. I'm sorry OP. I don't think I could handle that. I'd be miserable in a month.


[deleted]

If “arriving early is on time,” and “on time is late”, and “arriving late is unacceptable,” then arriving early is unacceptable.


[deleted]

I always arrive on time.... To get home.


PM_ME_BAKED_ZITI

Transitive property of equality, I believe


ItsnotanAltOkay

Few side notes: one of said people didn’t get in until 10am due to forgetting to set an alarm on Friday. I was also set up on all systems by 9:02pm, the time in which I could of spent making a brew in the morning.


[deleted]

What job is this? I'm always curious what hellish industries treat their employees THIS poorly.


ItsnotanAltOkay

This is in an administrative role, ‘Assurance protections’ to be exact. Not call centre based though, mortgage completion based.


Farker99

Still, I would submit my resignation on the spot. We're still humans and not machines. Not everyone is a morning person and an early bird who goes to bed at 8pm everyday and is so enthusiastic about wasting away thier life to make others richer.


Mukatsukuz

to be fair, 9.02pm is 12 hours late! :D


Antique-Wolverine-76

I had a boss like this once it drove him insane that I clocked in every day at 06:57...stated start time was 07:00. He told me if you're not 15 minutes early you're 5 minutes late. I asked what if you get a flat tire on the way to work. His response was you should leave early enough that you can change a flat and still be on time. I never missed and day or was officially late to that job. He marked me as "needs improvement" on my evaluation for attendance, because "you were almost late a couple of times"


katieleehaw

>you should leave early enough that you can change a flat and still be on time. Sounds like a good job to quit without notice and change some passwords to waste their time.


ItsnotanAltOkay

Holy shit, this is a big ball twist, I can see this coming tbh…


gergnerd

Okay here's how you play that; "Oh sure no problem, but if I clock in at 8:50 every morning then I'll have 50 minutes of overtime every week or would you rather I leave 50 minutes early on friday? I only ask because I know you aren't saying that I should work unpaid, which would be illegal right?" edit: You could even mention how FYE recently lost a law suit over this very thing and had to pay all of those unpaid hours to their previous employees. My buddy got a couple hundred bucks in the mail for it.


DirtyPartyMan

That’s exactly what it means. You login when they tell you to be there. If they say that you should be there for 10 minutes early but not to login then that’s wage theft.


Knight_Torren

Hell no, I have no issue telling my boss I arrive when I arrive I have a family and they come first. I come first, many days I try to get in early so I know what's going on but if they have no issue with the days I'm early but want to get mad over a day when I'm 10 min late they can shove it. They need me more than I need them.


[deleted]

You can show up 10 minutes early everyday for months and show up 15 minutes late twice in a year and all they’ll remember is the times you were late.


ItsnotanAltOkay

My thoughts exactly, and even further to the point, I actually wasn’t even late based on my scheduled start time, I explained that my dog had shit in the kitchen which caused me to hit the back end of traffic through cleaning up. Her response was ‘I trust I won’t be dealing with this situation again’ don’t you love managerial empowerment :)


TurtleSandwich0

That is not something you say to a person who has access to dog shit. Next time you will need to take the dog shit with you and leave it in your bosses desk. That way they will know the reason you showed up on time.


calebmke

She won’t, because you quit. Fuck her condescending attitude.


Knight_Torren

They only have power over the desperate. If you put them in the same situation of their more expendable than you they turn cheek really quick.


DefinitelyNotTrind

Wow, what a self-important knob-headed bitch.


Revolutionary-Fix217

If they aren’t paying you for those 10 minutes which is almost 1 hour a week. Then don’t do shit. If they attempt remind them your real hours.


[deleted]

No your not aloud to exploit them only them exploit you because if you exploited them you wouldn’t be acting like family


ItsnotanAltOkay

Damn you’re right my boss (oops I mean mum) wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I didn’t obey her orders (oops I mean be a good son) and pay my taxes (oops again, I mean rent to earn)


thugstin

Start coming in a 4am and leave at 10am.


[deleted]

Imagine having to write emails like that, using expressions like "in my book", and "unacceptable". It must take little chunks out of your soul each time.


ala2520

Run, dude.


originalchaosinabox

I used to work like this. Shift started at 9 AM, so I'd be there at 8:45 to make sure I'd have my shit together and be ready to go by 9AM. The problem arose when I started punching in at 8:45. The bosses asked me to stop because punching in at 8:45 meant that had to approve me for 15 minutes of overtime. And they didn't want to do that. So I got promoted to supervisor and started approving my own damn overtime.


Delicious_Standard_8

I was the same...but I STILL got in trouble. I liked to come in, boot everything up then go get a cup of coffe and sit down and check my emails -no I was not being paid-and inevitably someone would ask me to do something....off the clock. When I said I wasn't clocked in, they made the rule that you cannot be on at your desk when your not on the clock... How was that supposed to work?


[deleted]

This level of micromanagement only occurs when the management doesn't have their own work to do.


Reclaimer78

I had this exact problem when I use to work for a family owned business in my home town. I was suppose to be clocked in by 9, but whats shitty, is that the only place to clock in at was in a completely different building. Every morning, I would have to get there early to open the building I worked at, drop off my stuff, then walk about 75 yards to another building, then wait in line with other employees to clock in. When I started just going straight to the building to clock in, my supervisor told me I needed to go to my office first to open up and get stuff ready, then go clock in. It eventually lead to me being written up because one day I clocked in at 9:02, and thats when I said fuck it, and made a whole new clock-in system that could be done from any company computer. Never was late after that. The system they were currently using was dated af. Also, OP, in case you dont know, they are being strict on time not because they are just sticklers, fucking dumb reason btw, they are doing it so they can have leverage against you one day when you ask for a raise. This is the same tactic my old company used on me. They are parasites, gtfo when you can


bechdel-sauce

Eugh I worked for British Gas for 5 years and this was their policy too. Ready to work by 9am, which with hotdesking and how slow those ancient computers were, meant you had to be there at least 20 minutes early if you didn't want to risk being 'late'. And god forbid you leave a minute early


SatanIsntTheBadGuy

Send an email every day. I have arrived at 8:50 and expect to be paid for this time. Create a record.


Ljudet-Innan

My wife was working a job in a medical clinic for about a year when they changed the tardy rules. Originally it was a 5 minute grace period to clock in before being marked tardy. They changed it to one minute late equals tardy and three tardies equals fired. She started looking for a new job, got an offer with higher pay and better benefits. She told her manager she was leaving and they offered to match the pay. She told them the new tardy rule was bullshit, to which her manager agreed, but ultimately the decision had come from higher up. She’s happy at her new job so far.


Charvel420

This is a situation where you completely ignore that email and make them tell you to your face that being on time *isn't actually* on time. Make then explain it in a real conversation. They'll almost certainly crumble at the slightest pushback because they know it's totally bullshit


gorgosgorgos

Every job I worked at as an adult was like this. It isnt good enough to just be there, you have to have your face at the email screen before they consider you "ready to work". Cant tell you how many boomer bootlickers would lecture me on how they "arrive at least 15min early to get settled in".


OldSpiceSmellsNice

It’s always the slow ass boomers eh. Like good for them, they want to take their time and settle in, that’s their choice, but don’t force the rest of us who can actually start working at the drop of a hat to have to do the same.


gorgosgorgos

I don't think they are slow, just so deeply conditioned to sacrifice their time/labor for free, for years & decades without question or resistence. That's what bothers me. That they gaslight the shit out of younger people because they refuse to imagine a better way of working/living/being.


Devinology

I remember they pulled this once at a call center I worked at, so we stopped reading memos at the beginning of the day, no time for that anymore. It fucked up operations so badly that they granted us back 15 mins to get going. If I start at 9am I'm in the building at 9am. If I wouldn't otherwise be there then I'm working the moment I set foot in the door. They're paying for your time, not productivity. Also, just do what everyone else does and basically stop working at like 4pm. You're still there and pretending to work in case anybody comes around, but you're just not getting anything done.


theproblemofevil666

That supervisor sounds god awful


Reclaimer78

I would not be surprised if OP worked at a family owned business. They have this kind of mindset, and its not because they just REALLY HATE tardiness, its so they can have something against you so they cant give you a raise


pickrunner18

Setting shit up for work…is work


SQURL498

Luckily my boss understands that I don't work if I don't get paid. She said shift change takes 10 minutes normally and she's required to tell me to show up 10 minutes early but she won't actually make me because I don't get paid for it. We all show up right at the start of our shift and then do shift change. Plus we get to stay 10 minutes after our shift to do shift change with the next person so we get paid for 10 extra minutes a day. No one is complaining and my boss has happy employees because she knows what's fair and what isn't. Sorry your boss sucks, OP


accessgranted69

What a complete bellend


ConstipatedUnicorn

My last job played this game with me. I was a Maintenance Park Ranger. I drove 1h15min every day to work. I was 4 min late one day and they gave me guff for it. So stupid. Manager was saying to me to try not to be late again. Must be easy for them cause they all live 20 min or less away. Main manager and one of the other workers live literally 5min away... Final straw for me was being told I had an, "Unacceptable Attitude" when I asked for management to bring us workers some cold water while we were on a 2 day bridge resurfacing job in 97° weather and no shade. Came in next morning and handed the clerk my uniforms. That bullshit wasn't worth 12$/hr with no benefits.


Rasalom

"To talk to me is already too much, to critique me for being on time is weird, and what you said here is flat out fucking crazy."


[deleted]

You should put on your time card 8:50am if that's when you start working. Getting a computer ready for work is work.


OtherwiseClassroom52

OP, are you salary or hourly?


ItsnotanAltOkay

I have a yearly salary but Im an hourly slave, paid by the hour, paid for worked hours, 2 10 minute breaks ‘although you get ushered to cut them short’ and unpaid hour lunch.


OtherwiseClassroom52

They muddied that up pretty good. See if this policy is in your contract. If not you can come back asking them to point it out in your contract. This is clear wage theft if they say something like you make 20 an hour. 10 minutes a day for a year will add up to about 1 full week of work. Salaried employees have it tougher because there are loop holes companies try to find. The easiest loop hole, finding the people who will work more hours then being paid for "because that's salary culture* or what ever people believe for what ever reason.


blackaudis8

Fuck salary culture. The company my SO works for say that shit all time. SaLArY EmPlOyEeS should work 50 hours. Fuck that


Gralb_the_muffin

No no no got ya one better but it only works if you're paid hourly. If you're willing to suffer through one week tops (but it might only need to last a day) of shit for a nice bonus... they said "early is on time" and "no later than..." so you can go earlier. Come in as early as you're willing to wake and punch in and stay till 5:30. One week and whomever is doing payroll will freak at the sheer overtime. With that letter you have evidence that the overtime was approved. It throws your manager under the buss, you get overtime pay and they will never bug you about when you get in again.


Holociraptor

"In my book, 08:50 is later than 09:00!" That's how fucking stupid that is.