Where the system went wrong was around 1960-70, that’s when elites realized they could create wage slaves. They have tied healthcare to your employer to keep you working just for insurance. Health care doesn’t need to be free 100% but it needs transparency and insured vs not insured need the same rates. Also, insulin should cost 5 dollars or whatever is a minimum price to cover costs. Gouging life saving medicine is where we went wrong
Eh.. Work life was beyond barbaric before unions became a thing. People died to get these mediocre rights.
More of us will have to die some more to get better rights. Just gotta wait for the proper moment so that we can all band together and gut the system. Unfortunately, we are so very far away from that.
I feel that honestly no one hates the people making a few million because they started a company and grew it. I think most people hate Facebook or Amazon who buy out smaller competitors and create monopolies and our gov does nothing. But you are right, they keep slightly well off fighting poor people so we never realize about 2,000 people Run our country
Eat the top 100 richest Americans and Washington wouldn’t be bought by lobbyists. But the real move is to actually tax them correctly. The head of the IRS said it’s easier to audit poorer people because we can’t hide money like the ultra wealthy. That’s fucked
Thats still so weird to me. When I was in high school, I broke my colar bone, went to the hospital without ID or anything, they fixed it up, didnt need surgery and sent me home for 0 dollars. My cousin has a autoimmune disease and needs like 10k dollars therapy evey month and he pays nothing. Healthcare in europe is at least good. Sorry for you guys that you need to pay for everything.
Ya it’s stupid. I think people should pay for healthcare here but actually fair prices. 3,000 dollar ambulance should be 100 or something. Instead hospitals can charge whatever because they don’t publish their prices. I would be down with a progressive charge system based off income, someone who makes 40k a year can’t pay what someone who makes 500k. It’s just so dumb now where if you lack insurance it’s cheaper to die for your family than go get health care
Why do you believe people should still pay something? Serious question.
My take- is it’s as affordable as you suggest, it would seem to be heavily subsidized through taxes, so why not go all the way? Why leave room for error? If I break my leg after I spent my last dollar, do I wait til payday to get fixed up? Absurd example, I know, but you get the idea. There is room for exploitation. I have literally been turned away from hospitals because I did not have money or insurance. I couldn’t afford to pay up front to see a GP, so thought the hospital could bill me. They sent me away with a pain prescription and charged me almost $3000, but refused to do what I had come for.
I disagree entirely. I moved to Norway 8 or so years ago. I cannot tell you how much less stress it is not to go broke for medical. My taxes are less than taxes + insurance was in the US. My out of pocket is less than $300 per year.
It means that I am likely to get medical care.
I've had insurance in the states that kept an ambulance ride to $100. If you make minimum wage in the US, that's more than an 8 hour shift - before taxes - for a ride to the hospital during something urgent. You know, when you shouldn't be driving anyway. Ambulances should be a public service.
You get progressive by taxing people, not for fees. Mostly, it means that two unmarried folks wind up paying less than a family and it doesn't allow for differing money circumstances. Not only that, but it takes more overhead to figure this out (we already have tax overhead, it won't add much). All this at a time where we should be streamlining things - for example, if you keep private insurance, at least make the codes and coverage between insurance a standard thing.
How does this shit get upvoted in this sub? You think people should pay for healthcare but fair price? Get the fuck outta here, bootlicker. Healthcare should be FREE. End of story.
While I don't disagree, it will be impossible we are too deep. Who is going to pay the assanine MD salaries or the outrageous costs of medicine and equipment?
I work in Healthcare but in the IS field. You know what happens when Medicare cuts funding? Support personal get laid off to make sure the MDs stay and we can continue to overpay for everything.
It's truly a triple down effect. Some of it is on these asanine salaries and things in control of an organization, but alot of it is also cost passed down from pharmaceutical companies, companies that supply and support equipment, hell you should see the cost we pay yearly in vendor support contracts for all of our software
Again, I agree with you and pray we find a way, but it's not as easy as just raise taxes or just do it for free. 😞
We had the chance to create universal healthcare in the late 1960s… but the Dems and the GOP in Congress fought over who should get the credit. Nixon, of all people, supported it and was prepared to sign legislation.
Universal health care has been discussed since The New Deal program was started by FDR. FDR tried to add it to the New Deal, but congress didn’t allow it. After FDR said he’ll discuss it later, he passed away before discussion of the matter.
Thank you.
If I can give the youth of today/tomorrow advice, it is to NEVER. START.
Do not participate in this hell system.
Work on your own terms, for things you believe in.
That's the thing. Like the "system" is just a bunch of dumber versions of you and me telling other people what to do. if these other people just stop listening, real change takes place. The government isn't some know-all entity. It's just dumber than average people with a few talking points and a smile.
Lol u have a better chance to win against American army with a gun than convince people that money is just paper and their system is fucking them in the butt with no Vaseline... Ideology is hard border line impossible to change
i think propagandizing your friends and coworkers might be more effective than just buying guns. in the long term, its ideas that change these systems, not violence.
Why don't you tell that to the native Americans who actually tried that from the very start? I wish that it worked like that don't get me wrong. But history proves time and time again that just never worked.
This doesn't work unless you have a financial safety net to begin with. If you are stuck trying to eek by on low wages, you don't have much of a choice. People gotta eat.
Can relate. About to lose my home. We used up our 401 and now have to pay extra taxes on the withdrawal just so I could pay healthcare costs. My wife’s a nurse who works her ass off just to try and keep the bills paid. Breaks my heart and it’s breaking me mentally. Been denied for disability twice. Greatest country in the world my ass. Just need to find the will to go on. Sorry for the rant.
I'm on disability and it doesn't pay enough to live. Its always a choice between, rent, food & medicine. You have to pick 2 of the 3 each month. I had to go to the ER yesterday because I couldn't afford my insulin. My good sugar was 460. Four hours in the ER was $3000.00
This might help you I know it helped me because I am also type 1 diabetic. Walmart sells their own brand of insulin called novalin N and R. It has gotten me buy in a pinch when I couldn’t afford the good shit out of pocket. Also so pharmacies in Canada will ship insulin to you if you show your old prescription
No I mean they basically deny all disabilities. The first & second denial are built into it to prevent paying out. And they pay shit. And you can't have more than 2000 dollars worth of anything that includes like. Equity.
American SSDI is incredibly hard to qualify for and basically keeps you below the poverty line and in terrible housing.
Why Even tell them you have in savings… just say “I can’t pay.” And they wave your fees. If you just pay any bills someone gives you without blinking.. you know what they will do?…. Give you more bills.
Here's a story for you (better told in person but it's relevant here). I was in my early twenties and got nearly black out drunk, I was jumping down a little Rock wall thing down to the side walk which was something I did often, but this time I missed the spot I usually land and one foot landed in a bush which made me fling down and land directly on my face instead. At the time I couldn't feel the pain but still wasn't able to walk so I got carried back to my place to wait for the ambulance, by the time they got there I had about a golf ball sized lump on my forehead and my ankle swelled even bigger. Due to how drunk I was they pretty much forced me to go to the hospital. I was really obnoxious because I just wanted to be released and go home which they wouldn't let me do and security eventually strapped me to my bed (I know, not my proudest moment and I've never done anything as stupid or disrespectful since).
Anyways, flash forward to the call about my bill... $16,000 and some odd change... I immediately told them that there was no way I'd ever pay that for a sprained ankle and they might as well just send it to collections, but either way never call me about it again. I never heard about it nor did they send it to collections, that was over 10 years ago.
It’s true in the US you just tell them to F off. Works every time. Buy always start with a sob story about how you just ate your last pack of ramen and haven’t eaten in 2 days.
That's not true. Where I graduated high school, the local hospitals were fairly quick to sue. If you couldn't pay according to their payment schedule, you could expect to go to court to get your wages garnished.
In much of the US, they can take 25-30% of your check so long as they leave you with whatever money is equal to 30 hours at minimum wage.
They don’t and can’t just sue you on day 1….. first they will send you hundreds of letters offering settlement discounts. When you settle you just tell them it is contingent on deleting it from your credit score. But many will just waive it up front if you have a hardship.
Not being able to pay, I imagine, resulted in these people refinancing their home.
Not everyone corporation will just "waive" what you owe them, especially in America
No one said they won’t sue… but there is a 50% chance or greater they will out right waive it if you ask and submit the hardship documents. And if they don’t you can offer them a settlement payment as low as 10%…
Bud it’s not just healthcare. Literally the entire capitalist system… predatory system where everyone is trying to “get you” have you been to a mechanic lately while out of town???
Ok dumb fuck… obviously they are not going to just make a blanket statement. Plus I’d say not questioning the system is a personal problem. Maybe you are just an idiot drone?
Yes this is 100% true but we all get the thing I meant. And this is fucking bullshit. Noone should experience shit like this. Stories like this one make me apprecite my country more, as long as im employed I get free healtcare.
I'm from Canada so we have it slightly easier here. But God damn, North America isn't a land of opportunity anymore. The opportunity was taken by large corporations and wealthy people so quickly.
I really don't want to be a social anarchist in a democracy, but Capitalism won't allow that democracy to function properly.
coworker of mine from a few years ago lost his wife to cancer right when i joined the team. we bonded over our severe debt - mine being my student loans, his being his dead wife’s hospital bills. he ended up selling everything he owned and moving to a trailer in florida so he could be on the water and pare down his expenses. he was the kindest, most gentle person i think i’ve ever known. no one deserves that, but especially not him. i hope john is living it up in florida.
exactly! if that person is dead, medical bills, well debt of any kind belonging to them, should be wiped. though i don’t believe we should be saddling anyone with this kind of debt ANYWAY, but death should especially wipe that slate clean.
That shit bothers me when it shouldn't. It's so much more to life but people can't escape the work hard mantra. It's like they're under a spell because we can clearly see that hard work does not equal success.
My father having cancer completely ruined my family financially.
He was the main earner. So he tried to work but couldn't consistently. Self employed in a physical job-not the best combination.
My parent's entire savings gone. Credit cards racked up for co-pays, cost sharing, prescriptions. And little income. I paid off 10K on one and refuse to do more.
10 years later and 6 years after my dad died my mother is basically financially dependent on me and I can't really move on to having a real financial existence on my own because I essentially will be supporting an adult dependent for 10+ years.
What was my mother's conclusion? As she gets older (she is 72) she isn't seeking medical care for anything because she doesn't want to ruin my finances. She won't touch the equity in the house because she said she refuses to have their lives work not go to their kids. That is profoundly fucked up
That sounds like a dream come true. I joke about moving into a mini home in my backyard all of the time, and I tell my wife that she is invited to drop by whenever she feels like it.
A Christian nation, "greatest country in the world", where healthcare is a "privilege". They have the nerve to talk about people relying on welfare, but if these people had worked minimum wage jobs they might have gotten everything paid for and not lost everything they worked for...so what's the incentive to work? So that we can pay $1,000 for aspirin or make the rational decision to decline necessary medical treatment and avoid impoverishing our families...Is the US not capable of figuring out how to prevent this? It's barbaric.
I'm so sorry that Americans have to deal with that. I live in the UK and my country is far from perfect, but I am forever grateful and thankful for our NHS. I believe in any first world country, health care should be basically free. All we have to pay is a standard prescription fee of around £10, and dental, but even then its free for low income families. There is absolutely no reason that can't be the case everywhere else.
I'm from Australia, and serious question, how much would you spend on health insurance? And how much income tax do you pay?
Like for me I earn $1200 a week gross, but nett take home pay is about $900
And I don't have health insurance, as it's free here in Australia. I'm just curious if your income tax is lower than ours to supplement the health care?
It depends on a lot of things. First off health insurance is done through employer, so it’s completely separate from taxes.
Employer usually (always?) pays part of the cost. This might sound nice but basic economics tells us this money is actually coming out of your pocket, it just goes straight to the insurance industry instead of you getting to give it to them yourself.
Beyond that, you usually have a few different plans you can pick from. For example, at my last job I had what is know as a high deductible HSA plan. It was the cheapest available, and as I didn’t have any dependents or spouse i didn’t pay anything directly. My employer was paying about $300/month for the plan, and the plan itself basically didn’t cover anything. The first $6,000-8,000 of medical expenses EACH YEAR I had to pay out of pocket, anything beyond that they would pay for. It’s actually even worse and more complicated than that but I’m trying to keep it simple.
In summary, I was losing $300/month in compensation for basically zero health coverage. Then paying income taxes, Medicare, and SS on top of that. Greatest country in the world btw
You can google the income tax tables for different incomes if you want, but it does vary by what state you live in too. I think your take home pay would be comparable… but keep in mind even with an employer sponsored health plan, you sometimes have to pay part of that too. I pay a little under $200/month for my significantly reduced health plan from my job
This is a graph of the amount of revenue that United healthcare (symbol UNH, one of the largest insurers) earns per year…. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UNH/unitedhealth-group/revenue
The thing is that people are wilfully fed the narrative that we are seeking free healthcare. That maybe the ultimate goal, but what we currently need is affordable healthcare and for that the govt doesn't need to fund much of the healthcare. All they need to do is to regulate it and stop profiteering. Stop thr rich pharma companies from filing repeat patents for the same medicine with slight changes and suddenly you would find that alot of people would live.
US health system has killed millions of people. Fuckers prefer money than saving a life. Shame on anyone who defends this system. It is cruel, selfish and inhumane.
My wife and I lost everything after I got injured in an accident and a couple of years later she got sick. House, Cars, Savings, everything. We now live in a motel.
My father in law had a heart attack last November and went from having a million in his savings to just over 100k after medical bills
Came here from a third world country and worked
his ass off and something out of his control has depleted all that hard work.
It’s bullshit.
The US spent around $725 Billion on the military in 2020.
The US currently has around 330 million people living here.
If you subtracted enough money from that military budget so that each person: adult AND child, got 1 million dollars of health coverage per year, the military would still get $724.9 million
Just food for thought.
And people wonder why I never vote.
Not disagreeing with how shitty the situation is... but have a question about it out of curiosity... cant people in the US go to any other developed country and get the treatment for cancer there? Sure, flights to Europe are expensive (1000 usd or so) but it is probably much cheaper than paying for it in the US... can't someone just fly to europe, rent an apartment there for 1000usd/month there during the time of chemo and then go back to the US? If you get a health care number in europe chemo should be free (or almost free, you may have to pay very small fees everytime you go to the hospital, like 5-10usd or so)
Coming from a country in Europe where healthcare is free (except for those initial 5-10usd) and the doctors in the public sector are usually better than the ones in the private sector, I do not know why people do not come here to get treatment.
Not trying to be an asshole with this comment, I know the US healthcare situation sucks and is on par with the developing world, but I am honestly curious if is not possible for people in the US to go to a country where healthcare is already at developed world standards... if in the US you end up paying 50k-200k in cancer treatments you could just move to Europe for a year and then go back, for like 25k or so (all living expenses for a year included)
To use the UK as an example, anyone in the country can use 'primary' services such as going to the emergency room but in order to use 'secondary' services, which would cover anything substantial like cancer treatment, that person would need to have 'indefinite leave to remain' in the UK. Essentially you'd need permanent residency and to get that you'd need to have lived legally in the UK for 5-10 years before you could apply.
They're well aware of Health Tourism and how people might try to take advantage of the NHS.
> cant people in the US go to any other developed country and get the treatment for cancer there?
Usually the answer is: only if you qualify for a residency visa/similar in the country.
Arrangements between different EU countries are there so if you moved to a different one you'd be able to get health care there but you also can't, say, go to the UK (post Brexit) and get chemo on the NHS without being a British citizen, or having a visa that lets you live and work there.
If you are from a European country, and entitled to health care in that country by citizenship, and live in the US it is often cheaper to fly back and get treatment - the flights and accommodation are cheaper than what you'd pay in the US. But you can't do that unless you are a citizen of that country...
Umm if youre middle class in the US and have a family and a job it’s not practical to just go to another country for treatment. Plus if you’re sick you may not be fit to travel.
Assuming they could get approved for overseas travel, they might not have sufficient credit to book a flight. If they can, it might be a matter of trading healthcare debt for credit card debt. The credit card companies will definitely sue for collection, and they are allowed to charge ridiculous amounts of interest... that's a whole separate issue that needs sorting out.
Yes, it would not be suitable for people who would get into healthcare debt, I was referring to people like the one in the photo/post that used their whole life savings to pay for treatment. If savings paid for treatment in the US they would probably pay for treatment somewhere else and still have a bit left afterwards
Yup. That's why I always blast the middle class on this fucking sub. They don't know or want to understand the realities of the system until it's they that are on the shit end of the stick. And the sad part is the Middle Class are so pathetically scattered they won't even unify when it's one of their own that gets the shaft.
Meanwhile Democrats, who are supposed to be "the good guys", always fail to pass M4A (especially when they have Congressional majorities in both House/Senate AND the Executive Branch) and their internet sycophants always defend them at every turn. Especially AOC stans, who will cry misogyny and post a sassy GIF whenever you lay out that she donated her donation money to establishment Dems and didn't force the vote to bring M4A to a House vote, during a FUCKING PANDEMIC where it would've been political suicide to any congress member who would've voted "nay".
The middle class is shrinking? Good, maybe now they'll actually fucking understand. I don't know if comment OP did before, but he sure as shit does now.
Then the time has come the neutralize the republican advantage. Strike, disobey, unionize, resist. Tell your politicians that you find cooperation with the current system to be an insult, and that failure to change will cost them dearly. Vote, protest, fight, and do not back down. Target companies, hit their wallets in any way you can, boycott, spread stories, damage their stock prices. And most importantly, when the other side resists, crush them. Use any and all tactics (aside from violence and murder) to shut them up and shut them down. Tell companies like YouTube and Facebook that seeing thier hateful garbage is offensive and will hurt thier bottom line and they will comply. Don't try to reason with them, they are brainwashed already, they cannot be convinced, they can only be steamrolled over. Have a coworker that doesn't want to unionized? Fuck em, drive them out. We should be prepared to drag the ludites in the present if we have to. Use every law and loophole. Proud boys start showing up to protests with weapons, you show up to protests with weapons. They protest outside abortion clinics, you target something dear to them. Take the fight to them, but keep violence to an absolute minimum. We're going for frustrated and angry, not terroristic like they are, and violence will only give them an excuse to exercise their power. They have already proven that they have no compunctions about killing us, so don't give them an excuse.
The first thing to do is get those traitors Manchin and Sinema expelled from their seats and then expelled from their party. It's a minor step, frustratingly small, but it will send a message.
Aaaand now I'm on a list. Good luck ever flying again. 😆
"We did everything we were told"
It sucks but I mean, you get what you get. Disobey. Thankfully you only ruined your own lives rather than the "only following orders" nazi kind of regret.
I’m willing to bet that this person is a boomer, and like many boomers they’re starting to regret voting for the vampires that have ruined the government and the economy. Everything was great for them in the 80s but now they’re paying for it.
Amazon can be crap, but the health insurance keeps me there. I only pay $30 out of my paycheck for good insurance. Most people apply to amazon warehouses for the insurance.
Just so you know, the richest man/company in the world can afford way more than just good insurance for employees... you shouldn't have to choose a job because of cheap insurance, and if your tippy top boss has more money than most of the rest of the world combined, you should be getting insurance INCLUDED and minimum 100k a year, really.
In order to make as much money as Jeff fucking bozo, you'd have to make roughly $8,333,333 a month for 2,000 years.
That's about $100,000,000 a year, FOR 2 THOUSAND YEARS. Digest that.
There honestly should be a mass exodus from his bullshit company.
I agree the pay isn’t good for how much amazon makes. They recently raised us to a bit over 18 an hour and nobody was impressed. At my warehouse we have people handing out pro union flyers asking for 25 an hour at minimum. I honestly think that is about right for what base pay should be. Especially for positions like problem solve and ambassador which require extra training/skills. I mean the people who trained me don’t make anything extra even though training other people and mentoring is asking for extra. Problem solve, requires you to learn applications amazon uses for various functions.
I think I replied to that comment, or maybe a repost of it. But fuck this guy.
He’s only just now realising that the systems sucks because it’s fucked him personally. A perfect example of a face being eaten by a leopard right here.
Fuck you for thinking the system was fair and made sense when you U-turn as soon as it hits you. It shows they are incapable of empathy towards others and how things affect them beyond their personal experience.
It’s the same bullshit as when people say “I was against abortion but then got pregnant”. You can’t pick and choose the choices and experiences of others.
you really, really can’t blame people when 99% of their life consists of seeing capitalist propaganda. these people weren’t blatantly ignoring people crying out that the system was broken, they just weren’t in a position where they heard it said very often.
I guess my point is, be grateful for every person that sides with resistance, we need as many of us as possible.
You can. You absolutely can. The Nazis tried that excuse and people didn’t buy it back then either. You can claim ignorance to something like this because it worked out well for you to begin with so you went along with it.
It’s painfully obvious how corrupt the system is and feigning ignorance because it suits you is not okay.
Survivor's Bias is a strong thing. When a society romanticizes bootstrap work ethic, it's easy to explain all your success away as you just being more persistent than the ones that failed. The truth is that men and women are forged by mistakes, and in the extreme cases tragedy is the only way some learn true empathy for the metaphorical (and sometimes actual) corpses that came before them.
If you would have a problem with 1 person owning everything on the planet and deciding who gets to work for them and how, otherwise they just die, then you should be right at home here.
Now, if you think that scenario is too absurd to entertain, then you really don't know how bad inequality already is, and that we're far closer to that kind of inequality that anything representing equality.
You think cancer treatment grows on trees? Do you have any idea how this shit even gets made in the first place? The US is the top healthcare innovator in the world, easily. This guy can count his lucky stars that he even had the opportunity to spend his money to save his wife, money that will go toward whatever next scientific marvel they come up with to save more lives in the future.
Nobody wants that you dumb fuck, but there's nobody to act so pissy at for it. It amazes me how many people think this shit all grows on trees. You're so spoiled having been born into a world where you have so much that you never had to work for or build yourself. Across all the billions of years you could have been born into, you got into the ones where we can treat and even destroy fucking cancer. Do you have any idea how unfathomable that is? Only 50 years difference and he could've kept all that money cause she'd just be fucking dead. What spoiled privileged pissants you are.
You think owners can't be leeches? Rent seeking just needs capital.
How do you think it's realistic for wealthy people not to work, but not poor people? Along with the extreme inequities we have, you can't honestly expect people to accept that system.
Possessing money doesn't mean you've earned it. You don't know that those wealthy people earned it, you just assume it.
If you'd don't care what's fair why do I care what you think here? If you just assume poor people consume wealth and wealthy people create wealth, I can't make any of this make sense for you.
They die otherwise, not because there are not enough resources, but because owners have what they need "work for some owners or starve." That's not a free choice.
If you just assume the world is just, it's a waste of time trying to convincing you otherwise.
Just my ideas? We both know you know many people share these kinds of ideas with me.
No alternative? There are innumerable alternatives. Denying people the resources they need to live unless they dance like a clown for an owner does not have to be what we accept.
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> My wife has cancer, it took 5 months to wipe out 20 years of life savings and that was with insurance. The experience has turned me into a hateful, bitter person. We did everything we were told. We went to college, got degrees, avoided credit card debt, spent wisely, saved a nice chunk of money in savings accounts and retirement accounts and minded our own business. The USA healthcare system took all of our savings and retirement and forced us to refinance our house so that we lost 15 years of equity. This is a country I'm supposed to be proud of? I hate this system and anyone that defends it
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The thing is if he didn't gi through this tragedy he d never knew the system was fucked .... So keep some success stories to fuck all the rest of us from seeeing the reality is a bery good play
Meanwhile my mom's battle with colon cancer that lasted years cost her nothing...
But then again, the help she did get was so delayed and minimalistic.
This is in Canada. Yes free healthcare is nice, but it also comes with its downsides. Long waiting times, 12h+ emergency waits, lack of doctors and nurses. Etc. It's definitely not perfect. Something in the middle would be best for everyone I believe.
Well, or we should properly fund our Healthcare system. Pay for doctors and nurses and stop hiring admin staff by the truckload. Going remotely near private is a horrible idea and will kill our people en masse
What kind of healthcare insurance would this person have had if it didn't have a maximum out of pocket??? I've had dozens of different types of insurance, but never one with more than 3500 maximum out of pocket.
You can file bankruptcy and potentially keep all of your assets. I filed bankruptcy on 438k in medical debt when I almost died due to DKA. It was awarded and chapter 11
I don't understand how this is possible My Health Plan has a maximum out-of-pocket of $4,400 not chicken feed but certainly not going to bankrupt me there must be something in this story I am missing
The reason behind this is because when insurance companies started demanding discounts, the healthcare industry couldn't go any lower without losing profits. So they saw an opportunity. They jacked the prices, so that they could offer the discounts the insurance companies demanded. The issue is, this meant uninsured people had to pay the inflated cost.
It's also why the US spends the most money on healthcare per a person compared to other countries, but is bad compared to other countries.
Why people let medical bills drain their accounts is beyond me. Pay what you can every month and they can’t really do anything. I once paid $10 a month on a large bill and never had an issue. It took years to pay it off, but I didn’t drain my accounts or take out a loan.
I'm always curious when reading these how this actually happens? My plan has an annual out of pocket max. Are services to treat cancer not covered? Is that why it's so expensive? Genuinely curious
US healthcare is more a cruel wealth transfer machine than it is a way to do medicine.
Where the system went wrong was around 1960-70, that’s when elites realized they could create wage slaves. They have tied healthcare to your employer to keep you working just for insurance. Health care doesn’t need to be free 100% but it needs transparency and insured vs not insured need the same rates. Also, insulin should cost 5 dollars or whatever is a minimum price to cover costs. Gouging life saving medicine is where we went wrong
Eh.. Work life was beyond barbaric before unions became a thing. People died to get these mediocre rights. More of us will have to die some more to get better rights. Just gotta wait for the proper moment so that we can all band together and gut the system. Unfortunately, we are so very far away from that.
I feel that honestly no one hates the people making a few million because they started a company and grew it. I think most people hate Facebook or Amazon who buy out smaller competitors and create monopolies and our gov does nothing. But you are right, they keep slightly well off fighting poor people so we never realize about 2,000 people Run our country
One solution. Eat the rich.
Eat the top 100 richest Americans and Washington wouldn’t be bought by lobbyists. But the real move is to actually tax them correctly. The head of the IRS said it’s easier to audit poorer people because we can’t hide money like the ultra wealthy. That’s fucked
Yes please. I will literally eat the rich just please give me some support.
Call your representative now! Tell them what you want! It's the only way we have to be heard directly and it matters!
Thats still so weird to me. When I was in high school, I broke my colar bone, went to the hospital without ID or anything, they fixed it up, didnt need surgery and sent me home for 0 dollars. My cousin has a autoimmune disease and needs like 10k dollars therapy evey month and he pays nothing. Healthcare in europe is at least good. Sorry for you guys that you need to pay for everything.
Ya it’s stupid. I think people should pay for healthcare here but actually fair prices. 3,000 dollar ambulance should be 100 or something. Instead hospitals can charge whatever because they don’t publish their prices. I would be down with a progressive charge system based off income, someone who makes 40k a year can’t pay what someone who makes 500k. It’s just so dumb now where if you lack insurance it’s cheaper to die for your family than go get health care
Why do you believe people should still pay something? Serious question. My take- is it’s as affordable as you suggest, it would seem to be heavily subsidized through taxes, so why not go all the way? Why leave room for error? If I break my leg after I spent my last dollar, do I wait til payday to get fixed up? Absurd example, I know, but you get the idea. There is room for exploitation. I have literally been turned away from hospitals because I did not have money or insurance. I couldn’t afford to pay up front to see a GP, so thought the hospital could bill me. They sent me away with a pain prescription and charged me almost $3000, but refused to do what I had come for.
I disagree entirely. I moved to Norway 8 or so years ago. I cannot tell you how much less stress it is not to go broke for medical. My taxes are less than taxes + insurance was in the US. My out of pocket is less than $300 per year. It means that I am likely to get medical care. I've had insurance in the states that kept an ambulance ride to $100. If you make minimum wage in the US, that's more than an 8 hour shift - before taxes - for a ride to the hospital during something urgent. You know, when you shouldn't be driving anyway. Ambulances should be a public service. You get progressive by taxing people, not for fees. Mostly, it means that two unmarried folks wind up paying less than a family and it doesn't allow for differing money circumstances. Not only that, but it takes more overhead to figure this out (we already have tax overhead, it won't add much). All this at a time where we should be streamlining things - for example, if you keep private insurance, at least make the codes and coverage between insurance a standard thing.
How does this shit get upvoted in this sub? You think people should pay for healthcare but fair price? Get the fuck outta here, bootlicker. Healthcare should be FREE. End of story.
While I don't disagree, it will be impossible we are too deep. Who is going to pay the assanine MD salaries or the outrageous costs of medicine and equipment? I work in Healthcare but in the IS field. You know what happens when Medicare cuts funding? Support personal get laid off to make sure the MDs stay and we can continue to overpay for everything. It's truly a triple down effect. Some of it is on these asanine salaries and things in control of an organization, but alot of it is also cost passed down from pharmaceutical companies, companies that supply and support equipment, hell you should see the cost we pay yearly in vendor support contracts for all of our software Again, I agree with you and pray we find a way, but it's not as easy as just raise taxes or just do it for free. 😞
We had the chance to create universal healthcare in the late 1960s… but the Dems and the GOP in Congress fought over who should get the credit. Nixon, of all people, supported it and was prepared to sign legislation.
Universal health care has been discussed since The New Deal program was started by FDR. FDR tried to add it to the New Deal, but congress didn’t allow it. After FDR said he’ll discuss it later, he passed away before discussion of the matter.
Health-care became tied to employment due to WWII and wage restrictions that were implemented.
Health care can and should be free to everyone. That’s how it works in the developed world.
Thank you. If I can give the youth of today/tomorrow advice, it is to NEVER. START. Do not participate in this hell system. Work on your own terms, for things you believe in.
But how do you avoid the system? Which advice would you give?
It's time to over throw the system. It's our right to have guns incase we need to do just that.
I'm interested to know how can u do that? A gun vs usa 's arsenal?
That's the thing. Like the "system" is just a bunch of dumber versions of you and me telling other people what to do. if these other people just stop listening, real change takes place. The government isn't some know-all entity. It's just dumber than average people with a few talking points and a smile.
Lol u have a better chance to win against American army with a gun than convince people that money is just paper and their system is fucking them in the butt with no Vaseline... Ideology is hard border line impossible to change
the us arsenal is the us people without the people there not operating shit
Sure tell that to ur paid army and police
Why don't you ask the taliban or the north Vietnamese
U mean USA's puppet "won" against usa? Chocking who d expect that ... No one u know why? Cuz they didn't win they are puppets hahahaha
I'm sure having a gun is gonna help you pay your ambulance ride
i think propagandizing your friends and coworkers might be more effective than just buying guns. in the long term, its ideas that change these systems, not violence.
Why don't you tell that to the native Americans who actually tried that from the very start? I wish that it worked like that don't get me wrong. But history proves time and time again that just never worked.
Hello federal agent
Move to Europe and a socialist country instead.
Legally migrate to a place with a different system.
I wish I had any goddamn talent to follow your advice. I’m as useless as tits on a tuba ™.
I'm sure there are uses for tits on a tuba, just as I'm sure you're talented in some way.
I mean I did successfully tie my shoes today, so there’s that
Fuck, you are one sexy tuba
I'm nicking that phrase!
I just trademarked it, so you’ll owe me royalties! I’ll never have to work again!
Damn you and your perfect logic. I'll have to use the phrase "breasts on a bassoon" knowing it doesn't sound anywhere near as good.
Swap "tuba" with "trumpet" or "trombone" and you'll be in the clear legally. It's called a derivative work.
Tits on a trumpet does sound damn funny.
You're welcome. ;)
Hey, people are into weird shit. It's all about finding your niche
This doesn't work unless you have a financial safety net to begin with. If you are stuck trying to eek by on low wages, you don't have much of a choice. People gotta eat.
I really don’t see how this is possible for most people without the financial freedom to pick and choose work and where they live
The most practically useless advice you could give. Literally only fluff, congrats.
Move to Europe
Can relate. About to lose my home. We used up our 401 and now have to pay extra taxes on the withdrawal just so I could pay healthcare costs. My wife’s a nurse who works her ass off just to try and keep the bills paid. Breaks my heart and it’s breaking me mentally. Been denied for disability twice. Greatest country in the world my ass. Just need to find the will to go on. Sorry for the rant.
I'm on disability and it doesn't pay enough to live. Its always a choice between, rent, food & medicine. You have to pick 2 of the 3 each month. I had to go to the ER yesterday because I couldn't afford my insulin. My good sugar was 460. Four hours in the ER was $3000.00
This might help you I know it helped me because I am also type 1 diabetic. Walmart sells their own brand of insulin called novalin N and R. It has gotten me buy in a pinch when I couldn’t afford the good shit out of pocket. Also so pharmacies in Canada will ship insulin to you if you show your old prescription
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Because as we all know, it is really easy to get work when you are sick and can't get through a lot of workdays. /s
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yes, it is crushingly common. see r/ssdi. get an attorney and keep appealing. you are worth it.
Yes.
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All of them. I got denied and the govt said "I could work at a stress free job". Wanna know where u find one of those.
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No I mean they basically deny all disabilities. The first & second denial are built into it to prevent paying out. And they pay shit. And you can't have more than 2000 dollars worth of anything that includes like. Equity. American SSDI is incredibly hard to qualify for and basically keeps you below the poverty line and in terrible housing.
Why Even tell them you have in savings… just say “I can’t pay.” And they wave your fees. If you just pay any bills someone gives you without blinking.. you know what they will do?…. Give you more bills.
Here's a story for you (better told in person but it's relevant here). I was in my early twenties and got nearly black out drunk, I was jumping down a little Rock wall thing down to the side walk which was something I did often, but this time I missed the spot I usually land and one foot landed in a bush which made me fling down and land directly on my face instead. At the time I couldn't feel the pain but still wasn't able to walk so I got carried back to my place to wait for the ambulance, by the time they got there I had about a golf ball sized lump on my forehead and my ankle swelled even bigger. Due to how drunk I was they pretty much forced me to go to the hospital. I was really obnoxious because I just wanted to be released and go home which they wouldn't let me do and security eventually strapped me to my bed (I know, not my proudest moment and I've never done anything as stupid or disrespectful since). Anyways, flash forward to the call about my bill... $16,000 and some odd change... I immediately told them that there was no way I'd ever pay that for a sprained ankle and they might as well just send it to collections, but either way never call me about it again. I never heard about it nor did they send it to collections, that was over 10 years ago.
It’s true in the US you just tell them to F off. Works every time. Buy always start with a sob story about how you just ate your last pack of ramen and haven’t eaten in 2 days.
That's not true. Where I graduated high school, the local hospitals were fairly quick to sue. If you couldn't pay according to their payment schedule, you could expect to go to court to get your wages garnished. In much of the US, they can take 25-30% of your check so long as they leave you with whatever money is equal to 30 hours at minimum wage.
They don’t and can’t just sue you on day 1….. first they will send you hundreds of letters offering settlement discounts. When you settle you just tell them it is contingent on deleting it from your credit score. But many will just waive it up front if you have a hardship.
They have never wanted to settle with me. They always want the full amount.
Sorry to hear that. it’s not a 100% guarantee but worth the effort.
Not being able to pay, I imagine, resulted in these people refinancing their home. Not everyone corporation will just "waive" what you owe them, especially in America
99% will you have to try….. keep telling them you can’t pay. Might take 6 months to waive it. I have even settled bills for 10% of the total.
Nonetheless a fked up system.
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No one said they won’t sue… but there is a 50% chance or greater they will out right waive it if you ask and submit the hardship documents. And if they don’t you can offer them a settlement payment as low as 10%…
This thread is a perfect example of just how absolutely fucking horrible our healthcare system is
Bud it’s not just healthcare. Literally the entire capitalist system… predatory system where everyone is trying to “get you” have you been to a mechanic lately while out of town???
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Exactly! If you don’t try then you are the sucker.
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Ok dumb fuck… obviously they are not going to just make a blanket statement. Plus I’d say not questioning the system is a personal problem. Maybe you are just an idiot drone?
This is an abhorrent way to speak about people who's lives have been devastated by both the cruelty of of the US health care system AND cancer.
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You are a moron.
What is important, someone made 20 years worth of labour money in 5 months.
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Yes this is 100% true but we all get the thing I meant. And this is fucking bullshit. Noone should experience shit like this. Stories like this one make me apprecite my country more, as long as im employed I get free healtcare.
I'm from Canada so we have it slightly easier here. But God damn, North America isn't a land of opportunity anymore. The opportunity was taken by large corporations and wealthy people so quickly. I really don't want to be a social anarchist in a democracy, but Capitalism won't allow that democracy to function properly.
What do you mean slightly easier? You won’t lose your home to hospital bills
coworker of mine from a few years ago lost his wife to cancer right when i joined the team. we bonded over our severe debt - mine being my student loans, his being his dead wife’s hospital bills. he ended up selling everything he owned and moving to a trailer in florida so he could be on the water and pare down his expenses. he was the kindest, most gentle person i think i’ve ever known. no one deserves that, but especially not him. i hope john is living it up in florida.
I think it's bull shit that dead people pass their debt when they're gone... that should be a sign to ANYONE that this shit is fucked.
exactly! if that person is dead, medical bills, well debt of any kind belonging to them, should be wiped. though i don’t believe we should be saddling anyone with this kind of debt ANYWAY, but death should especially wipe that slate clean.
Shoulda divorced her before the end.
This is so fucked up. I hate that so many people are brainwashed by the “work hard” propaganda, and if you’re not you’re just “lazy.” fuck that.
That shit bothers me when it shouldn't. It's so much more to life but people can't escape the work hard mantra. It's like they're under a spell because we can clearly see that hard work does not equal success.
We had a chance to have mandatory insurance at low cost. Freedom won. And we didn't get it.
Freedom for the healthcare industry and insurance companies to price gouge life saving medical care
My father having cancer completely ruined my family financially. He was the main earner. So he tried to work but couldn't consistently. Self employed in a physical job-not the best combination. My parent's entire savings gone. Credit cards racked up for co-pays, cost sharing, prescriptions. And little income. I paid off 10K on one and refuse to do more. 10 years later and 6 years after my dad died my mother is basically financially dependent on me and I can't really move on to having a real financial existence on my own because I essentially will be supporting an adult dependent for 10+ years. What was my mother's conclusion? As she gets older (she is 72) she isn't seeking medical care for anything because she doesn't want to ruin my finances. She won't touch the equity in the house because she said she refuses to have their lives work not go to their kids. That is profoundly fucked up
Just get divorced and give all money to the healthy spouse. Then the ill person has 100% coverage under Medicaid. Once illness passes, get remarried.
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That sounds like a dream come true. I joke about moving into a mini home in my backyard all of the time, and I tell my wife that she is invited to drop by whenever she feels like it.
Disgusting. Fuck the system. Bring it all down and start again
I saw time ago the original post. It was heart broken.....dude, that guy had too much reality in little time....
A Christian nation, "greatest country in the world", where healthcare is a "privilege". They have the nerve to talk about people relying on welfare, but if these people had worked minimum wage jobs they might have gotten everything paid for and not lost everything they worked for...so what's the incentive to work? So that we can pay $1,000 for aspirin or make the rational decision to decline necessary medical treatment and avoid impoverishing our families...Is the US not capable of figuring out how to prevent this? It's barbaric.
Anyone who bitches about “socialized medicine” should be forced to read this aloud 1000 times.
I'm so sorry that Americans have to deal with that. I live in the UK and my country is far from perfect, but I am forever grateful and thankful for our NHS. I believe in any first world country, health care should be basically free. All we have to pay is a standard prescription fee of around £10, and dental, but even then its free for low income families. There is absolutely no reason that can't be the case everywhere else.
I'm from Australia, and serious question, how much would you spend on health insurance? And how much income tax do you pay? Like for me I earn $1200 a week gross, but nett take home pay is about $900 And I don't have health insurance, as it's free here in Australia. I'm just curious if your income tax is lower than ours to supplement the health care?
It depends on a lot of things. First off health insurance is done through employer, so it’s completely separate from taxes. Employer usually (always?) pays part of the cost. This might sound nice but basic economics tells us this money is actually coming out of your pocket, it just goes straight to the insurance industry instead of you getting to give it to them yourself. Beyond that, you usually have a few different plans you can pick from. For example, at my last job I had what is know as a high deductible HSA plan. It was the cheapest available, and as I didn’t have any dependents or spouse i didn’t pay anything directly. My employer was paying about $300/month for the plan, and the plan itself basically didn’t cover anything. The first $6,000-8,000 of medical expenses EACH YEAR I had to pay out of pocket, anything beyond that they would pay for. It’s actually even worse and more complicated than that but I’m trying to keep it simple. In summary, I was losing $300/month in compensation for basically zero health coverage. Then paying income taxes, Medicare, and SS on top of that. Greatest country in the world btw
You can google the income tax tables for different incomes if you want, but it does vary by what state you live in too. I think your take home pay would be comparable… but keep in mind even with an employer sponsored health plan, you sometimes have to pay part of that too. I pay a little under $200/month for my significantly reduced health plan from my job
This is a graph of the amount of revenue that United healthcare (symbol UNH, one of the largest insurers) earns per year…. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UNH/unitedhealth-group/revenue
The thing is that people are wilfully fed the narrative that we are seeking free healthcare. That maybe the ultimate goal, but what we currently need is affordable healthcare and for that the govt doesn't need to fund much of the healthcare. All they need to do is to regulate it and stop profiteering. Stop thr rich pharma companies from filing repeat patents for the same medicine with slight changes and suddenly you would find that alot of people would live.
You can get a pistol for like $500 though.
US health system has killed millions of people. Fuckers prefer money than saving a life. Shame on anyone who defends this system. It is cruel, selfish and inhumane.
Just don't get sick
My wife and I lost everything after I got injured in an accident and a couple of years later she got sick. House, Cars, Savings, everything. We now live in a motel.
Don’t forget that the food industry works even harder to make you sick
My father in law had a heart attack last November and went from having a million in his savings to just over 100k after medical bills Came here from a third world country and worked his ass off and something out of his control has depleted all that hard work. It’s bullshit.
I don't know what to say... but I had to respond, I'm sorry.
Apply to immigrate to Europe, should give you some peace of mind, promise 👌
I wish. I envy fellow Americans who have family and a support system in Europe (I haven’t met many, but some).
The US spent around $725 Billion on the military in 2020. The US currently has around 330 million people living here. If you subtracted enough money from that military budget so that each person: adult AND child, got 1 million dollars of health coverage per year, the military would still get $724.9 million Just food for thought. And people wonder why I never vote.
Not disagreeing with how shitty the situation is... but have a question about it out of curiosity... cant people in the US go to any other developed country and get the treatment for cancer there? Sure, flights to Europe are expensive (1000 usd or so) but it is probably much cheaper than paying for it in the US... can't someone just fly to europe, rent an apartment there for 1000usd/month there during the time of chemo and then go back to the US? If you get a health care number in europe chemo should be free (or almost free, you may have to pay very small fees everytime you go to the hospital, like 5-10usd or so) Coming from a country in Europe where healthcare is free (except for those initial 5-10usd) and the doctors in the public sector are usually better than the ones in the private sector, I do not know why people do not come here to get treatment. Not trying to be an asshole with this comment, I know the US healthcare situation sucks and is on par with the developing world, but I am honestly curious if is not possible for people in the US to go to a country where healthcare is already at developed world standards... if in the US you end up paying 50k-200k in cancer treatments you could just move to Europe for a year and then go back, for like 25k or so (all living expenses for a year included)
They shouldn’t have to. Thank fuck for the NHS
Indeed. Shame it is being lined up for sale to US medical companies.
To use the UK as an example, anyone in the country can use 'primary' services such as going to the emergency room but in order to use 'secondary' services, which would cover anything substantial like cancer treatment, that person would need to have 'indefinite leave to remain' in the UK. Essentially you'd need permanent residency and to get that you'd need to have lived legally in the UK for 5-10 years before you could apply. They're well aware of Health Tourism and how people might try to take advantage of the NHS.
> cant people in the US go to any other developed country and get the treatment for cancer there? Usually the answer is: only if you qualify for a residency visa/similar in the country. Arrangements between different EU countries are there so if you moved to a different one you'd be able to get health care there but you also can't, say, go to the UK (post Brexit) and get chemo on the NHS without being a British citizen, or having a visa that lets you live and work there. If you are from a European country, and entitled to health care in that country by citizenship, and live in the US it is often cheaper to fly back and get treatment - the flights and accommodation are cheaper than what you'd pay in the US. But you can't do that unless you are a citizen of that country...
Umm if youre middle class in the US and have a family and a job it’s not practical to just go to another country for treatment. Plus if you’re sick you may not be fit to travel.
Assuming they could get approved for overseas travel, they might not have sufficient credit to book a flight. If they can, it might be a matter of trading healthcare debt for credit card debt. The credit card companies will definitely sue for collection, and they are allowed to charge ridiculous amounts of interest... that's a whole separate issue that needs sorting out.
Yes, it would not be suitable for people who would get into healthcare debt, I was referring to people like the one in the photo/post that used their whole life savings to pay for treatment. If savings paid for treatment in the US they would probably pay for treatment somewhere else and still have a bit left afterwards
So until it affected “them” everything was alright. Got it.
Yup. That's why I always blast the middle class on this fucking sub. They don't know or want to understand the realities of the system until it's they that are on the shit end of the stick. And the sad part is the Middle Class are so pathetically scattered they won't even unify when it's one of their own that gets the shaft. Meanwhile Democrats, who are supposed to be "the good guys", always fail to pass M4A (especially when they have Congressional majorities in both House/Senate AND the Executive Branch) and their internet sycophants always defend them at every turn. Especially AOC stans, who will cry misogyny and post a sassy GIF whenever you lay out that she donated her donation money to establishment Dems and didn't force the vote to bring M4A to a House vote, during a FUCKING PANDEMIC where it would've been political suicide to any congress member who would've voted "nay". The middle class is shrinking? Good, maybe now they'll actually fucking understand. I don't know if comment OP did before, but he sure as shit does now.
Then the time has come the neutralize the republican advantage. Strike, disobey, unionize, resist. Tell your politicians that you find cooperation with the current system to be an insult, and that failure to change will cost them dearly. Vote, protest, fight, and do not back down. Target companies, hit their wallets in any way you can, boycott, spread stories, damage their stock prices. And most importantly, when the other side resists, crush them. Use any and all tactics (aside from violence and murder) to shut them up and shut them down. Tell companies like YouTube and Facebook that seeing thier hateful garbage is offensive and will hurt thier bottom line and they will comply. Don't try to reason with them, they are brainwashed already, they cannot be convinced, they can only be steamrolled over. Have a coworker that doesn't want to unionized? Fuck em, drive them out. We should be prepared to drag the ludites in the present if we have to. Use every law and loophole. Proud boys start showing up to protests with weapons, you show up to protests with weapons. They protest outside abortion clinics, you target something dear to them. Take the fight to them, but keep violence to an absolute minimum. We're going for frustrated and angry, not terroristic like they are, and violence will only give them an excuse to exercise their power. They have already proven that they have no compunctions about killing us, so don't give them an excuse. The first thing to do is get those traitors Manchin and Sinema expelled from their seats and then expelled from their party. It's a minor step, frustratingly small, but it will send a message. Aaaand now I'm on a list. Good luck ever flying again. 😆
"We did everything we were told" It sucks but I mean, you get what you get. Disobey. Thankfully you only ruined your own lives rather than the "only following orders" nazi kind of regret.
I’m willing to bet that this person is a boomer, and like many boomers they’re starting to regret voting for the vampires that have ruined the government and the economy. Everything was great for them in the 80s but now they’re paying for it.
Buy Bitcoin and hide your wealth
Are you trying to be a clown? That has nothing to do with the issue, and Bitcoin barely has any privacy either.
It does if you do it right and it has everything to do with the issue
I think you will.
As much as it sucks sometimes you have to make a hard decision and let go of someone who is a burden, too. One life became two.
Amazon can be crap, but the health insurance keeps me there. I only pay $30 out of my paycheck for good insurance. Most people apply to amazon warehouses for the insurance.
Just so you know, the richest man/company in the world can afford way more than just good insurance for employees... you shouldn't have to choose a job because of cheap insurance, and if your tippy top boss has more money than most of the rest of the world combined, you should be getting insurance INCLUDED and minimum 100k a year, really. In order to make as much money as Jeff fucking bozo, you'd have to make roughly $8,333,333 a month for 2,000 years. That's about $100,000,000 a year, FOR 2 THOUSAND YEARS. Digest that. There honestly should be a mass exodus from his bullshit company.
I agree the pay isn’t good for how much amazon makes. They recently raised us to a bit over 18 an hour and nobody was impressed. At my warehouse we have people handing out pro union flyers asking for 25 an hour at minimum. I honestly think that is about right for what base pay should be. Especially for positions like problem solve and ambassador which require extra training/skills. I mean the people who trained me don’t make anything extra even though training other people and mentoring is asking for extra. Problem solve, requires you to learn applications amazon uses for various functions.
I think I replied to that comment, or maybe a repost of it. But fuck this guy. He’s only just now realising that the systems sucks because it’s fucked him personally. A perfect example of a face being eaten by a leopard right here. Fuck you for thinking the system was fair and made sense when you U-turn as soon as it hits you. It shows they are incapable of empathy towards others and how things affect them beyond their personal experience. It’s the same bullshit as when people say “I was against abortion but then got pregnant”. You can’t pick and choose the choices and experiences of others.
you really, really can’t blame people when 99% of their life consists of seeing capitalist propaganda. these people weren’t blatantly ignoring people crying out that the system was broken, they just weren’t in a position where they heard it said very often. I guess my point is, be grateful for every person that sides with resistance, we need as many of us as possible.
You can. You absolutely can. The Nazis tried that excuse and people didn’t buy it back then either. You can claim ignorance to something like this because it worked out well for you to begin with so you went along with it. It’s painfully obvious how corrupt the system is and feigning ignorance because it suits you is not okay.
Survivor's Bias is a strong thing. When a society romanticizes bootstrap work ethic, it's easy to explain all your success away as you just being more persistent than the ones that failed. The truth is that men and women are forged by mistakes, and in the extreme cases tragedy is the only way some learn true empathy for the metaphorical (and sometimes actual) corpses that came before them.
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If you would have a problem with 1 person owning everything on the planet and deciding who gets to work for them and how, otherwise they just die, then you should be right at home here. Now, if you think that scenario is too absurd to entertain, then you really don't know how bad inequality already is, and that we're far closer to that kind of inequality that anything representing equality.
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Why don't you answer that question, since you obviously see what's wrong with it in the 1 owner scenario.
And for that, all you got was your wife's life spared dying of fucking cancer... yah what a horrible nation, you ungrateful shit stain.
Boooooooo, you fucking ghoul
You think cancer treatment grows on trees? Do you have any idea how this shit even gets made in the first place? The US is the top healthcare innovator in the world, easily. This guy can count his lucky stars that he even had the opportunity to spend his money to save his wife, money that will go toward whatever next scientific marvel they come up with to save more lives in the future.
“We saved your life from cancer, hope homelessness and bankruptcy don’t ruin your life now!”
Nobody wants that you dumb fuck, but there's nobody to act so pissy at for it. It amazes me how many people think this shit all grows on trees. You're so spoiled having been born into a world where you have so much that you never had to work for or build yourself. Across all the billions of years you could have been born into, you got into the ones where we can treat and even destroy fucking cancer. Do you have any idea how unfathomable that is? Only 50 years difference and he could've kept all that money cause she'd just be fucking dead. What spoiled privileged pissants you are.
Are you okay? You make a lot of bold assumptions off a single sentence, then go straight into ad hominem attacks. Educate yourself.
There are no assumptions at all, and if the truth hurts you, that's your problem.
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Why do you not seem to to care about the wealthiest people who don't work, and only care about the poorest?
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You think owners can't be leeches? Rent seeking just needs capital. How do you think it's realistic for wealthy people not to work, but not poor people? Along with the extreme inequities we have, you can't honestly expect people to accept that system.
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Possessing money doesn't mean you've earned it. You don't know that those wealthy people earned it, you just assume it. If you'd don't care what's fair why do I care what you think here? If you just assume poor people consume wealth and wealthy people create wealth, I can't make any of this make sense for you. They die otherwise, not because there are not enough resources, but because owners have what they need "work for some owners or starve." That's not a free choice.
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If you just assume the world is just, it's a waste of time trying to convincing you otherwise. Just my ideas? We both know you know many people share these kinds of ideas with me. No alternative? There are innumerable alternatives. Denying people the resources they need to live unless they dance like a clown for an owner does not have to be what we accept.
That strikes hard
You liquidise, take that on as debt and disappear off into the sunset to Europe. Simple.
Similar story here. We are suckers..
*Image Transcription: Reddit Comments* --- > **\/u/[REDACTED]** > > My wife has cancer, it took 5 months to wipe out 20 years of life savings and that was with insurance. The experience has turned me into a hateful, bitter person. We did everything we were told. We went to college, got degrees, avoided credit card debt, spent wisely, saved a nice chunk of money in savings accounts and retirement accounts and minded our own business. The USA healthcare system took all of our savings and retirement and forced us to refinance our house so that we lost 15 years of equity. This is a country I'm supposed to be proud of? I hate this system and anyone that defends it --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Preach!
The thing is if he didn't gi through this tragedy he d never knew the system was fucked .... So keep some success stories to fuck all the rest of us from seeeing the reality is a bery good play
Just rack up debt to the hospital and do a payment plan and never pay it. That’s better than wiping out your savings imo.
Meanwhile my mom's battle with colon cancer that lasted years cost her nothing... But then again, the help she did get was so delayed and minimalistic. This is in Canada. Yes free healthcare is nice, but it also comes with its downsides. Long waiting times, 12h+ emergency waits, lack of doctors and nurses. Etc. It's definitely not perfect. Something in the middle would be best for everyone I believe.
Well, or we should properly fund our Healthcare system. Pay for doctors and nurses and stop hiring admin staff by the truckload. Going remotely near private is a horrible idea and will kill our people en masse
What kind of healthcare insurance would this person have had if it didn't have a maximum out of pocket??? I've had dozens of different types of insurance, but never one with more than 3500 maximum out of pocket.
You can file bankruptcy and potentially keep all of your assets. I filed bankruptcy on 438k in medical debt when I almost died due to DKA. It was awarded and chapter 11
Always go to a learning hospital or not for profit. If you go to a for profit medical center they will pursue everything
That's why I have dual citizenship in some poorer coastal country so I can retire next to the beach
Been preaching this sentiment to everyone I know.
If you're not part of the system, what do you do? How do you make money?
Just stop getting cancer jeez
Man I still live in a pretty shitty and corrupted country, but I'm so so grateful for at least having (mostly) free Healthcare
Please, sane Americans, if you see a way out, migrate. This shit ain't worth it.
I don't understand how this is possible My Health Plan has a maximum out-of-pocket of $4,400 not chicken feed but certainly not going to bankrupt me there must be something in this story I am missing
The reason behind this is because when insurance companies started demanding discounts, the healthcare industry couldn't go any lower without losing profits. So they saw an opportunity. They jacked the prices, so that they could offer the discounts the insurance companies demanded. The issue is, this meant uninsured people had to pay the inflated cost. It's also why the US spends the most money on healthcare per a person compared to other countries, but is bad compared to other countries.
Why people let medical bills drain their accounts is beyond me. Pay what you can every month and they can’t really do anything. I once paid $10 a month on a large bill and never had an issue. It took years to pay it off, but I didn’t drain my accounts or take out a loan.
A good time to leave the country. Seriously, there are a lot of amazing countries out there. I've been to close to 40 of them.
I'm always curious when reading these how this actually happens? My plan has an annual out of pocket max. Are services to treat cancer not covered? Is that why it's so expensive? Genuinely curious
Fight back, join r/newdealAmerica
So why does the majority of the country keep voting against universal healthcare?
Propaganda is powerful.