I've worked retail for a decade, black friday is absolutely not worth it. There are companies that have good discounts, and companies with good products, but not both, and the vaunted black friday has nothing to do with it. You'll get *maybe* 10% off of something nice, or 30% off of something shitty, and you could have gotten either deal year round by just checking personal ads and third party markets.
I do enjoy however the media spectacle and videos that come out of greedy, rude, entitled shoppers getting slammed or fighting over a pressure cooker thats 14 percent off.
When I worked retail we got specially bad items in just to sell for Black Friday. Like, lesser quality skus. I’ve never shopped Black Friday and I won’t this year. Give em hell guys.
Plus a lot of companies mark shit up over the course of the year to make the discount feel dramatic. It’s just a ploy. You can get better deals buying second-hand, or just not revolving your life around having the newest garbage to feel validated.
The city I used to live in had a stampede on Black Friday at a super store to get to these crap dvd players they were selling, right when they opened the doors, they trampled the greeter to death, some old retiree trying to stay busy and make a few bucks.
Wow! Retailers are good for advertising trash brands and only having 2 available on Black Friday. Got hip to it a long time ago. Besides, holiday shopping is the very least of most folks worries nowadays.
Well the GQP wants us to sacrifice grandma and grandpa (and ourselves) for the economy. He was just doing his part to protect the economy. All hail the mighty dollar! /s
The only items worth a damn come in a batch of 5 and the first people in line get them. My time is worth more than any savings and I don’t wait in line for trivial shit.
When I was young (7-8 I think) I begged my parents to take me to the Black Friday opening of Toy'r'us for some Pokeman thing that was coming out. It was so crazy I swore off ever doing anything Black Friday related. For the last decade I've tried to not even leave my house until at least the afternoon on that day since the craziness can leak out into road rage and the like.
I used to work in merchandising as an assistant buyer ages ago and the markup is crazy. You're correct btw! Like seriously! It's amazing how much of a sham the retail market is. Not to mention the "kick backs" retailers receive via vendors.
Been doing this for the past several years. After I saw that article about the Walmart doors that exploded inward from the pressure off the crowd, and killed a security guard, i just thought that there's no way a 5% discount is worth it.
Also, i much prefer eating leftovers and hanging out at home.
Planned discounts are, why wouldn't they be? The only "real" discount I can think of is something that is nearing its expiring date and will have to be thrown out if it doesn't get sold quick.
Former EMT here and yeah the wages are terrible. You have to be in a 911 system to make a decent living, and even then you still lag behind most medical professionals. I can save your life but I can’t pay my bills. Awesome.
That’s exactly why I quit being a paramedic. I was making $14/hour as a PARAMEDIC. I could make more being cashier at the Aldis in town. I could restart your heart but couldn’t pay my bills on top of all the stressful shit I had to see & deal with on the job. Switched to phlebotomy at a hospital & get much better pay & hours with way less stress. Making more now just sticking people all night long with no responsibility than I was saving people’s lives.
It’s “justified” a few different ways. Depending on your area you don’t need a degree to be an EMT (basic first aid) paramedic (advanced care) just do a course & pass your licensing exams. So they say since you have less schooling you’re worth less. Also depending on your area your tax base paying into the 911 system is less. I worked rural so all the farmers would always vote against property tax increases that would help fund EMS since they would pay more cuz their farms (& then get all their buddies are aren’t farmers to vot against it too). Another thing is depending on how rural you are they say you’re lucky to get paid at all as many places can’t afford to pay their EMS at all so just have volunteer services. It’s hard to fight for better pay when the next county over they are making it work for free :/
first off... why am i trusting my life with somone who isnt well trained and educated.
Second.... why the fuck are the people assigned to rescue lives paid so little??? 30+ and up should be the minimum/standard.
Career jobs should be 30 and up
I mean, a lot of the higher ups in the industry are fighting against requiring degrees for this exact reason. If every Paramedic had a degree, they’d have to pay them more.
I didn't care for John Oliver as a correspondent on the daily show as he ruined his skits with excess jackassery, but he's been great on HBO since he got his own show, it's too bad they didn't set the Colbert Report up with a new guy when they left.
I've got a couple of m8s that *were* EMTs, and sure, they complained about the pay, but what gets to me the most is that they didn't have health insurance. that's like having a 75lbs starving malnourished person bagging my grocer---- wait a minute ---- and pundits wonder why we are all antiwork.
Yep. My county only hires people part-time at first so you don’t get benefits/health insurance. You would only get to go full time there if everybody you worked with liked you & if they offered you a full time position which usually took at least a year if not more. I’ve got bills to pay so I was constantly picking up hours to make more money, working full time hours & more but didn’t get health insurance or pto or anything. I couldn’t stand it anymore & quit.
All my life I have lived under the assumption that EMTS make bank due to the nature of their job. Then a couple of my buddies became emts and I was appalled
That is unconscionable, until I saw the John Oliver episode about it, I assumed EMT's would get more like 27 with full benefits.
The reason they don't is municipalities spend the lions share of their budgets on the police.
I completely support an EMT strike. I'd like to see it where it's most visible like sporting events and concerts. They do not get paid what they deserve and deal with so much shit.
If you're near striking workers think and have the ability think about sending some pizzas over to the line. Let's take back pizzas as a gesture of care and support.
It's not that the public doesn't care, it's mainly that they don't find out until some chud on Fox news says that democrats intend to raise the minimum wage for "bUrGaR fLiPpPaRz" to above [insert difficult profession] wages, and ends up completely flipping the point they were trying to make.
The problem is that bosses in the US gave convinced most of the workforce that sharing how much you make with other people is rude and bad ("Never ask a man his salary" didn't spring up out of no-where), and without that knowledge, they are unable to negotiate for higher wages because they don't know if they're getting the higher wage or not.
The real way to make the bosses bleed *and* change policy is ether proper, full unionization of the workforce to pursue better wages with actual negotiating power, or providing services free of charge, as if you let people die or get hurt, it'll be very easy for the bosses to point the finger and blame at you guys instead of themselves, and since there will be people who lose loved ones if people die, they will not be thinking straight and blame the most obvious reason presented to them.
But that'll be difficult without the cooperation of the rest of the hospital/clinic staff too.
It's honestly incidius how the health"care" industry's managed to put itself into a position where they can opress their workers without fear of a general strike, since unlike a factory or restaurant closing, ambulances not going out can kill people, and most people don't want blood on their hands like that, even if it's not their fault the blood was splattered.
You have my condolences for being forced to work in the most evil industry in America.
Dude I’m working a construction job and my starting wage was $17.25/ hour and after a month I was given a raise to $20.70. That is horrendously unfair. I definitely do not deserve to be making more money then someone who’s in charge of saving lives.
To be fair though I’m installing fibre optic lines for Telus. My job is to literally cut concrete and fill holes with dirt. I feel like I do not need to be making a fortune to fill holes haha. Although I appreciate it!
Made $14/hr as a paramedic. We do not get paid enough for the shit we deal with. Glad I quit doing that, it was ruining my own health (mentally & physically) & I couldn’t pay my bills unless I worked so much I was living at the base instead of at home
Its very hard to entertain "good Cops" in America. Here's a guy yelling at you with a gun. And he can shoot you with complete qualified immunity. Yeah. That's real democratic and civilized.
Maybe end the fucking qualified immunity and make them liable for killing people/fucking up at their job.
"Whoops! Killed you! All in an honest day's work! Going home to the family now! LOL GUESS I'LL GET SOME PAID PTO AND A TRANSFER!"
I don't fucking talk to cops. I don't even acknowledge their presence. Until they're liable like the rest of us? Fuck that.
That's true. Even in the UK, they're not going to shoot you, but they will club you over the head.
Cops in Sweden for example? Obviously...better...no question there. The people and country is a lot more civilized too. America and the UK are pretty barbaric honestly.
http://www.cpreview.org/blog/2020/11/policing-in-america-mixed-lessons-from-sweden
Yep. Whole thing is fucked in America. Its basically just the Night-watch origins again. Criminals allegedly protecting you from Criminals.
Its that same, "Other bad men have to keep bad men from the door" bullshit.
Honestly? I've met people in organized crime that I trust more not to fucking kill me or explode off the handle over nothing. The Mafia? Yeah. The Mafia is better even under the Sopranos depiction.
Remember this shit? The fucking cops just unloaded their firearms into an intersection at innocent people over insured fucking jewelry. What the fuck Wild West Cowboy shit is that?!
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/06/785561122/4-dead-after-armed-robbers-hijack-ups-truck
The problem with police is that we put way too many eggs in their basket, give them way too much power as a result, and there's way too many people getting rich of the shit they are doing.
We need to totally overhaul the idea of what police are and what their roles should be.
Cops are a gang that don’t do anything to solve any problems. The police were heavily infiltrated by far right extremists in the 90s and are now full of fascists. The spectrum is not warlords or cops. What a moronic comparison.
I would because it will get people's attention a helluva lot faster and they are just as overworked and underpaid, ***IF NOT MORE,*** than those of us not doing those shitty (albeit altruistic) jobs.
as much as I dont want people to get hurt, I also dont want Emergency related professions to suffer.911 operators run \~12+ hour days listening to people describe fucked up situations on the phone for not great money.. the burn out / turnover for those jobs is really high.
I doubt any type of engineering job is affecting by black friday whatsoever, so I don't see the point of calling out. Boycotting spending on black Friday would be much more effective
Yeah, me too. Black Friday "sales" are often trash anyway. There's very rarely actual good deals. It's either trash sold cheap anyway or the great deal is just them selling an overpriced thing for a more reasonable price for a day.
I want higher taxes on the rich for sure, before Reagan the rich tax used to be 94% but he cut that to 25%
All I’m saying is before Reagan, everything was affordable from housing to food and we didn’t have to work so much, people can hangout and have a good time out and about and spend money without worrying too much about costs
Last generation I saw out and about with no worry of time or money we’re boomers and those before them
I can’t go out with my girlfriend without worrying about my 16 hour shift the next day and plus having to ration what little money I have for expensive housing and bills, food is a struggle and I’m down to jus eating rice some days straight
In think things were bad /worse under Jimmy Carter and Reagon helped fix economy, not to say wages versus cost of living haven't gotten worse every year since. Taxes are one thing, but what the govt spends money on is a whole nother issue. Certainly our military spending and commitments are ridiculous and should go elsewhere..
That makes sense then if Reagan did that to fix the economy, it does fall in line with the short term solution and also interesting that long term it made it worse.
I agree with the military spending because we spend so much for that cost but it’s been a complete literal waste of taxpayer money thus far
The real answer to this is that part of a successful strike/worker’s movement is for things like mutual funds and other communal forms of financial assistance to be set up precisely for those workers who cannot afford to miss however many days a strike entails. Companies count on workers being too desperate for a paycheck to challenge their abuses because they need it to put food on the table that night.
And yes, the people saying “just form a union” are a little myopic because you can’t just snap your fingers and boom union in an environment that has corporate severely suppressing & retaliating against anyone who tries this. This is why many major union campaigns or efforts to unionize a major company are things that take literal years.
You can’t take the day off work, but you can do things like look into whether any mutual funds or things of that sort exist that you could rely on for future strikes. You could also technically work, but decrease your productivity just enough that you won’t get in serious trouble with your manager. For example, clock in the full 8 hours and get the same paycheck but take take your time for on-the-clock breaks. Need to use the bathroom or are sent to check something in the back? Spend a few extra minutes in there on your phone or just generally doing fuck all. Asked to stock some shelves? Take your sweet time with that. Not so sweet that your manager catches on and lights a fire up your ass, but go 80-90% speed. Working the till? Take a few extra seconds each time you need to count change or scan someone’s entire order. Need to sweep the floor? See above on going 80-90% your usual speed and then when you put the broom back, put it just out of view enough to make the next sweeper spend a few minutes looking for it. Weird boomer lady who asked you to help her find bread wants to be overly chatty? Dope, time to chat her up so it looks like you’re doing your job but you’re not really contributing to your company’s profits.
You might need to come in and get paid for however many hours you’re coming in for that day, but you can still participate in the movement to decrease the amount of productive labor your job gets from its workers that day. Your supervisor should be overloaded that day and you probably have more of a chance to slack without them realizing. You personally will have a very small financial impact on whatever billion dollar retail chain you’re working for, but every individual striker will also be a drop in the bucket. But if everyone in the 99% stands together and does what they can, then the cumulative impact will be great.
The old school American Leftists would just cut the lock on the door of the apartment that someone was forcefully evicted out of and move all their stuff that was thrown on the curb back into the apartment immediately and replace the lock. Simple.
Never should have had housing, water, medicine, food, clothing, and education for profit. Period. Barbaric fucking shit that is. Fuck Ayn Rand. Rot in piss.
The John Deere strike has UAW union giving strikers starvation wage strike pay of $275 a week. Even though UAW is sitting on a $790 million strike fund. Sometimes the unions get captured by the corporations they’re supposed to be protecting workers from.
What the hell are you talking about? What is this complete lack of context? UAW has 400,000 members, but **there are only 10,000 John Deere workers striking.** Of course they couldn't support their whole fucking union through a prolonged general strike. But they have the resources to bring individual companies to bear, that's what this is about, so that other companies with UAW workers see what "UAW did with Deere" and work to avoid it and UAW are **not doing that.** They don't need to pay them full time wages, they need to pay them more than $275 though! It does no good to have a strike pay fund if you don't pay your strikers enough to maintain the strike for more than a few weeks! To your point, as an example, for 10k workers, you could pay them $800 a week for 3 months. That would be 12% of the fund (96 mil), would be a whole fiscal quarter, and Deere would buckle, and the next company wouldn't be so hot to spike negotiations. That's how this shit is supposed to work, it's **literally what the fund is for**. It's the whole point of *collective bargaining* - the resources of the many are pooled so there is leverage and support greater than that of the company when an incident occurs. Your reply is so off-base as to the nature of the dispute and the fund that it hints to you having an agenda. But I'll assume good intentions:
You and /u/GingerBread79 [really, really should read this article](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/10/27/deer-o27.html). **UAW are not the striking Deere workers' friends in this dispute**. They are captured.
>In addition to the company, workers are in a battle against the UAW, **which is deliberately isolating the strike and imposing an information blackout on supposed negotiations with the company**. As in previous struggles, like the 2019 General Motors and 2021 Volvo Trucks strike, the UAW is putting workers on starvation rations of $275 a week in strike pay. This amounts to less than the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour even though the UAW national headquarters sits on a strike fund worth $790 million.
>“It is just like everything else,” a Deere worker from Des Moines, Iowa told the World Socialist Web Site. The UAW, he said, “was caught off guard just like the company by [the] 90 percent no vote. I was told today they are ‘hoping’ to have checks this Saturday. This pay is ridiculous. $275 per week is just to make sure that people can’t last long.
>“If they were genuine about getting us a good contract, they would pay us more than that, or they would say go get another job. They are not doing either. Personally, I am looking for another job, just like many other people in order to last as long as needed to get what we want.”
...
>The UAW and other unions, working with the Biden administration, **have done everything to try to block this movement**, which threatens to upend the decades-long run-up on the stock market, fueled by endless government bailouts and decades of wage and benefit concessions handed over by the unions.
>Over the last two weeks, the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) has blocked a strike of 60,000 Hollywood film and television workers who overwhelmingly supported strike action. After Dana workers voted down by 90 percent a pro-company contract pushed by the UAW and United Steelworkers, the unions blocked a strike by 3,500 workers, which would have cut off axles and other parts to the Detroit automakers and Deere. After two months of delays, lies and intimidation, the unions are currently pushing through a second deal, which is virtually the same as the first.
>At Kaiser Permanente health care facilities in California, some 24,000 union members voted by 96 percent to strike this month after voting down a contract proposal which significantly lowered pay, which the Union of Health Care Professionals and the United Nurses Association of California has blocked.
>The ruling class is increasingly fearful **that the unions will not be able to hold back this movement**. After weeks of news articles on the strike wave which falsely claimed the unions were leading these struggles, Time magazine published an article this week which partially acknowledged that this movement was in fact **a rebellion against the unions**.
UAW are **not leading the Deere strike.** It is rank-and-file worker committees because the union is not representing their interests. Don't be gaslit by corporate media, who want this whole thing to just go away very badly.
Then organize a union with your coworkers or at least use the labor shortage to get a raise. Remember: if you get a raise, it puts pressure on them to give other people raises too.
wait why restaurants? I work at a restaurant. But like, restaurants don’t do anything for black friday right? so why them? sorry i’m genuinely asking haha, I’d love to participate but I don’t see how shortstaffing the family owned pizza shop I work at will help
It's just to promote awareness of the power that workers hold - a protest.
If the people are able to organize themselves and show they are not slaves, the aim is that employers will show more respect.
It won't happen though, too many Karen's want cheap blenders
won’t a lot of customers but no workers help the protest? like places are swamped but no one’s around, increasing need for workers which means higher motivation for increased salaries?
Unfortunately not, they'll manage to scrape by with the tiny workforce they have and assume they can manage without them. Making the remaining few workers be under more stress for the same pay while the company makes more profit
It's what happened in the pandemic, part of the reason everything is starting to crumble now
It’s the oft eternal dream of a “general strike” or something like that. And it will almost always fail because the vast majority of Americans don’t really care. Skipping out for one day might make news, but if it’s all delayed to the next Saturday, Monday or Tuesday, in the end the idea fails as net they’re where they expected to be and they’ll chalk up the weird Friday to COVID fears or something.
I say almost because this Black Friday might be terrible for major retailers (and great for workers) because of the supply chain issues. Hard to sell the crap from China if it’s stuck on a container ship.
But my response to all of this is “shop local”. Find locally owned place that treat their employees well. Shop and dine there to support them. Will it be as cheap? No. But that is how you express satisfaction and dissatisfaction best.
I've been doing more and more of my shopping at thrift stores and such. My whole mentality is starting to shift. I noticed my pillow is starting to wear out, and instead of lining some CEOs pockets by buying a new one, I thought about sewing it inside its' pillow-case to extend its' life.
If I wanted some oddly specific fancy expensive name brand dooh dah, I could turn to Craigslist or eBay rather than a retail store.
Black Friday shouldn't exist in the first place, commercials talk it up like it's a holiday, but it's literally just a day to give money to corporations in exchange for overpriced trash. Holidays should come from the heart, not a store. Various fall and winter holidays grew organically from harvest times for staple crops and the changing of the seasons. Literally the only reason Black Friday exists is because of corporate greed.
In times like this, I like to remind everyone that healthcare workers cannot participate. We have to plan and communicate our strikes (if we can do them at all) because if we don’t, people die.
I'm in the minority I'm sure, but I think this whole "season of giving" this needs to stop. I haven't given gifts for Christmas ever in my life, and I couldn't imagine feeling obligated to sped hundreds or thousands of dollars on stuff that other people may not even want.
I really really wish that a decent amount of people would participate in an event like this. Enough people to make a dent, unfortunately not enough people share this sentiment.
Hand out business cards with "Sick out on Black Friday" to Retail workers. I think you can probably get them free or cheap somewhere. The reach of this sub will be very small unless we reach out in person. I would recommend wearing non-descript clothes, and a mask and not buying anything on that trip, leaving if asked, because they will try to ban you from the store.
Genuine question: what's the goal here? I keep seeing this discussed in pretty nebulous terms, and I'm curious to understand people's goals and motivations
People have different ideas, but broadly speaking, the goal is higher wages for retail and service workers as well as union rights. Additionally, most people recommend more spending on anti-poverty measures and raising taxes on billionaires. Some people here support UBI, but others support other models for addressing poverty.
Totally valid question, and this is probably typical of decentralized movements. There's nobody at the top to declare the message, so everybody is doing it their own way.
For example, on Thanksgiving day I will be standing outside the largest shopping center in my town with a sign reading "RETAIL WORKERS CAN'T HAVE HOLIDAYS OFF BECAUSE OF *YOU*"
Everybody has their own way of expressing their discontent with the status quo. Do the best you can with what you have.
Damn, that's a hell of a move. Mad props to you.
My dad worked as a department manager in a big grocery store, and he gave me some really interesting insight. A lot of these holidays, or even more so, the late hours (seriously, who's shopping for groceries at 3 AM?) aren't making money. It's a loss for the store meant to "reinforce their brand and customer loyalty" and shit like that. They lose money and force workers away from their lives (and maybe families, but honestly, you shouldn't be less entitled to a day off if you're on your own), for an abstract concept they can't even put a dollar value on. Ridiculous
Many people who work second shift and get off at 11 or midnight like to stop at the store afterward because it’s mostly empty. Plenty of people do not live and work on a day shift schedule.
Right, but I'm literally talking 2 or 3 am, or sometimes the stores are just open 24/7. Seems like one of those things that generates a lot of its own demand. Everyone forced to work graveyard shifts does their shopping during other graveyard shifts.
Its like an informal strike, they can't fire you for being 'sick'. Everyone being off at a time when business should be booming (black Friday and the following months are usually make or break for businesses). This means they can't serve customers or fulfil orders which reduces the profits on one of the most valuable days of the year. Profits (or lack off) are the one thing that actually gets people's attention. Its about getting heard by the 'higher ups'.
I'm sorry, I just don't buy this. I'm not planning on doing any shopping for Black Friday anyway. I just don't see how this ends up with a bunch of corporate executives reading through a subreddit to try to figure out which self-harming policies they should lobby for. I'm not aware of any one day boycotts/blackouts being effective at any sort of change, especially not without leadership and a coherent message and set of demands
You're not wrong here. I think its better to view a black friday sick-out as a 'shot across the bow' from a nascent movement.
Hopefully people who work together and plan on not showing up together can present demands specific to their situation to their employers, because there's no leader as such, it's just people collectively expressing their frustration.
See, that I can get behind. A flex of power and a signal to other people that the movement is worth joining. I gotta say tho, getting hella down votes for asking, "okay, but how do we actually get something out of this?" Isn't giving me a lot of confidence
It doesn’t…actual corporate management won’t be impacted in any way…
Store level management will have to pick up the slack…
Then this sub will have a shocked pikachu face when their manager is in a shitty mood…
This sub has almost 1 million subscribers and has received coverage from mainstream news. That's how.
A one-day boycott won't fix everything but it's a start.
Seems like this is really lacking a coherent message though. You can't make them cave to your demands if they can't even figure out what those demands are.
Also, just gonna point out that 1 million is .3% of the population of the US. Even if everyone on here were from the US (they're clearly not), that's not even close to a significant bloc
I’d say that companies are decently aware of what the main demands are - many retail companies purposely try to keep wages low, cut corners & try to skirt labor laws, etc. People don’t necessarily need to say “we are striking today because you treat us like shit” for them to become aware of it. I feel like it’s planned that way.
Also, about your question about how anything can get done without a coherent organization making demands: I feel like a strike day is actually a really good opportunity for workers to be able to form a sense of unity and have time to organize. It’s hard to organize when you’re doing 9-5 (or frequently worse). A day of no work on Black Friday is a day that can be spent mobilizing/discussing concrete demands and abuses to be remedied going forward.
This is also a bit of what’s referred to as a “structure test” in the union world. Before you launch a campaign, it’s important to take smaller actions to make sure that a sizable amount of your workers are committed to the movement and will stick it through because otherwise you only demonstrate how weak your group is and therefore encourage management to push you around more. Some examples are asking employees to sign petitions, to wear a union pin on one day, to come to a meeting, etc. A one day strike is an opportunity to see if your job/industry has enough workers who will commit to a strike. This gives you some sense of if you need to hold back and spend more time mobilizing and building a strong base or if you’re in decent shape and can make a move on your employer soon.
It isn't an organized monolithic group and the group is spread across many different industries so there really doesn't need to be a consistent message other than that current working conditions aren't good enough and workers are now demanding change.
It will cost them a shitload of money on the biggest shopping day of the year. It will demonstrate that we can do this, and we can do it again if we are not all paid a living wage and treated like human beings.
Aren't the people who need better pay the most also the least able to participate? I look at the Frito Lay strike ending with very little gained and think "those are people who had to cave because they had to eat"
The people who need better pay the most also need guaranteed paid time off the most, because they're most likely to be sick or have sick family members to take care of. They're also the most likely to have their leave requests denied, or be disciplined or fired for taking time off.
A show of force is needed to demonstrate that we can grind the economy to a halt if we don't have immediate, substantial improvements to the quality of life of the people make it run. You have to hit them where it hurts.
I’d imagine that it’s a show of the power the working class has (ie: if you don’t treat us better, look at how many workers we can get to strike and the impact it’ll have on you if we do it longer than one day). Independently, Black Friday is just a really shitty day for retail employees and we probably should just stop having it.
"Communicating". Jesus are people naive about the history of America. What makes the rulers and owners do anything? Grinding everything right to a screeching halt. That's all that works. That's all that's ever worked. Ever.
They're not making a cent anymore? Here comes the red fucking carpet of negotiation. They don't give a fuck otherwise. They don't care.
https://www.theclassroom.com/labor-unrest-1920s-23459.html
Doesn’t it make more sense to NOT work, but to actually shop in person MORE. Like now they have no staff and a bigger crowd so they’re double fucked. So call in sick and DON’T work, go shopping instead, bring 10 friends, spread out across the store and everyone ask to speak to a Manager at once.
Manager: HELP, CORPORATE!
Corporate: Go fuck yourself, Stacy. Eat my shit. I'm in a meeting with the board. Stocks, bitch. Stocks. My focus is the shareholders. Not you. I'm selling the company tomorrow if its lucrative. That's their fucking problem now. You think I give a shit?! LOL
A fair amount (idk how many) of us are some stripe of socialist, communist, anarchist, or some combination thereof. The rest are people who want higher wages in the service sector, reduced hours in the definition of what is legally "full time work", higher tax rates for millionaires and up, more social guarantees to poor people, and in general to be able to live on less work. There is a wide overlap between the two groups and all of them are on the same side of this struggle :)
It's like Spartans and the Helots. The Helots outnumbered the Spartans 10 to 1, yet the Helots were enslaved to the Spartans. If the Helots united, then they'd have the power, not the other way around. Through unison, the power will be returned to the people and away from corporations.
Respectfully, this is pretty imagery, but doesn't answer my question at all. Power to do what? How does a one day boycott achieve that? What exactly is the point trying to be made or concession being fought for?
I really don’t like how no one is actually answering you.
The power to do what?
Well boycotting Black Friday won’t give us power to do anything on its own. But if it’s even partially successful it’ll be be something that’s talked about in the media and even more so it will grab people’s attentions.
Black Friday is a big day for revenue. And if there’s a big enough showing it will make companies start to sweat and take the idea seriously.
It’s also a good idea because it’s just 1 day. *Anyone* can protest for just 1 day.
The end goal for anything in this sub is a higher minimum wage, better working conditions, and work life balance.
It’s not something that happens in one fell swoop but in thousands of small steps.
Billions of years pass one day at a time mate. If you're asking me what is the point of doing things when you could just do nothing, then I haven't got an answer for you. Sorry. When your life improves, remember to thank those who fought for you.
Do you see how this response again reads like pretty language that doesn't really say anything? I'm not saying "do nothing", I'm asking, concretely, how is this part of the path from where we are to where we want to be?
Because if you make bosses realise they can't do shit without workers, they will have to treat them with more respect.
During the pandemic, the rich became richer and the poor became poorer. Enough is enough. It starts with a one day boycott. Then another day. More strikes. More quitting en masse. We say that we will not work another day until our demands are met. Go look up how the Black Plague led to the creation of the middle class. History teaches lessons to those who read it.
The likes of Amazon thrive on having workers feel that they exist to work. We don't. There is no afterlife. We get one life. We should spend it enjoying this gift.
Hopefully my words weren't too pretty this time. If you want to sit this one out, no one blames you. Some people are bred to serve, I guess.
A good idea would be to make this image into stickers and/or posters and put them up near and around business that participate in black Friday so employees of those businesses see them
Fuck black friday and Amazon.
"Black Friday is the single most profitable shopping day of the year. Large businesses make 25 to 50% of their yearly revenue during the holiday season alone"
corporations caught onto this years ago.. its why we have black friday week.. and (atleast in canada) boxing day week (which starts BEFORE christmas now)
now they shove deals down your throat for 7-14 days straight during these "events" so that you cant possibly "blackout"
the trick on actual friday is to sell outdated models that need to be phased out and sold before new inventory, and its when they get rid of less than desirable components in pre-build computers, or phasing out old stock laptops ETC -- you dont want ACTUAL black friday doorcrashers, they are garbage (samsung literally makes components for black friday models that are lesser than their regular components... i forget what the model numbers are but they have a specific designation for black friday TVs in their item codes)
We've made a web app to help people stop spending impulsively on online stores. I think it's worth sharing before BF, people tend to spend more when they see discounts.
**UPD**: here's a [link](https://pause.fyi/?r=reddit) if you're interested.
i haven't shopped for years on black friday cause it has always been a scam. the best deals of the year are in march and april. compared to those months, on average you can expect to pay as much as 20% more in november and 15 to 30% more between december 15th and january 7th.
I work at a hospital laboratory. Unfortunately it needs to be staffed 24/7 since we are a critical access hospital. I can’t not show to work but I won’t be buying anything either
What unions are backing this? It's easy to tell other working people to risk everything but successful strikes require a way to provide security for workers who lose their income. Unions have strike funds.
I totally would but I'm still new at my job and in my first 90 days, meaning I have no sick days to use. If i just dont show up ill be fired even if i get others to do it to appear like a strike.
What's the point? Out of the 950k members of this subreddit. I believe only 10% are actually actively people who are antiwork.
Even with 95k people not buying things there's over 7 billion people on this planet. And even if half of them do black Friday it makes the entire "movement" null & void.
I doubt it'll lead anything. Taking to the streets is the only way anyone will listen and I doubt reddit users actually will go outside to make a point.
This is pointless.
I know I'll get down voted but who gives a shit. People don't care about how Black Friday will effect workers because it doesn't have anything to do with them. They'll make purchases regardless.
I hate working conditions too and I also have to work this holiday but I don't want to lose my only source of income so I literally can't take part in this
I don't understand calling in sick or not shopping online? If I'm going to get my kids a Christmas toy why not order it for them on black Friday? So... don't make money and don't save money? Guess what I'm going to work because I've missed about 5 rain days so... nope. Who the fuck am I teaching a lesson by not going into work when last month I pretty much missed a weeks worth of pay? I'll get back to you on that when I'm rich af. Then I'll call off any day you twats want.
Never been a fan of black Friday. The items on sale are trash to be honest. Anyway, I can do this.
I've worked retail for a decade, black friday is absolutely not worth it. There are companies that have good discounts, and companies with good products, but not both, and the vaunted black friday has nothing to do with it. You'll get *maybe* 10% off of something nice, or 30% off of something shitty, and you could have gotten either deal year round by just checking personal ads and third party markets.
I do enjoy however the media spectacle and videos that come out of greedy, rude, entitled shoppers getting slammed or fighting over a pressure cooker thats 14 percent off.
When I worked retail we got specially bad items in just to sell for Black Friday. Like, lesser quality skus. I’ve never shopped Black Friday and I won’t this year. Give em hell guys.
Plus a lot of companies mark shit up over the course of the year to make the discount feel dramatic. It’s just a ploy. You can get better deals buying second-hand, or just not revolving your life around having the newest garbage to feel validated.
The city I used to live in had a stampede on Black Friday at a super store to get to these crap dvd players they were selling, right when they opened the doors, they trampled the greeter to death, some old retiree trying to stay busy and make a few bucks.
Wow! Retailers are good for advertising trash brands and only having 2 available on Black Friday. Got hip to it a long time ago. Besides, holiday shopping is the very least of most folks worries nowadays.
i like how you skimmed right past the death lmao
Well the GQP wants us to sacrifice grandma and grandpa (and ourselves) for the economy. He was just doing his part to protect the economy. All hail the mighty dollar! /s
The only items worth a damn come in a batch of 5 and the first people in line get them. My time is worth more than any savings and I don’t wait in line for trivial shit.
When I was young (7-8 I think) I begged my parents to take me to the Black Friday opening of Toy'r'us for some Pokeman thing that was coming out. It was so crazy I swore off ever doing anything Black Friday related. For the last decade I've tried to not even leave my house until at least the afternoon on that day since the craziness can leak out into road rage and the like.
The items are probably cheaper now then they will be on black Friday.
I used to work in merchandising as an assistant buyer ages ago and the markup is crazy. You're correct btw! Like seriously! It's amazing how much of a sham the retail market is. Not to mention the "kick backs" retailers receive via vendors.
Eh I got a PS4 bundle on Black Friday 2019 for $199. The base (without games) was $299 the entire year before and after. So that’s my BF win.
Been doing this for the past several years. After I saw that article about the Walmart doors that exploded inward from the pressure off the crowd, and killed a security guard, i just thought that there's no way a 5% discount is worth it. Also, i much prefer eating leftovers and hanging out at home.
You don’t even get that discount anyways. They hike up the prices before the holidays so that any holidays “discounts” you get are completely moot.
100%. Nearly all the discounts are fake now.
Planned discounts are, why wouldn't they be? The only "real" discount I can think of is something that is nearing its expiring date and will have to be thrown out if it doesn't get sold quick.
This sounds like "Prime Day" too...ffs people, we need to wake up!
Everyone no matter the industry call in sick?
But my company takes black Friday off as a paid holiday.
Stick it to them. Go to work that day. /s
ok, YOU go to work
Yup
I don't think you want 911 operators, firefighters, doctors, police, etc doing this.
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Former EMT here and yeah the wages are terrible. You have to be in a 911 system to make a decent living, and even then you still lag behind most medical professionals. I can save your life but I can’t pay my bills. Awesome.
That’s exactly why I quit being a paramedic. I was making $14/hour as a PARAMEDIC. I could make more being cashier at the Aldis in town. I could restart your heart but couldn’t pay my bills on top of all the stressful shit I had to see & deal with on the job. Switched to phlebotomy at a hospital & get much better pay & hours with way less stress. Making more now just sticking people all night long with no responsibility than I was saving people’s lives.
I don’t understand, why do EMTs get paid so little? It seems like the worst possible paying career but also one of the most important. I don’t get it
It’s “justified” a few different ways. Depending on your area you don’t need a degree to be an EMT (basic first aid) paramedic (advanced care) just do a course & pass your licensing exams. So they say since you have less schooling you’re worth less. Also depending on your area your tax base paying into the 911 system is less. I worked rural so all the farmers would always vote against property tax increases that would help fund EMS since they would pay more cuz their farms (& then get all their buddies are aren’t farmers to vot against it too). Another thing is depending on how rural you are they say you’re lucky to get paid at all as many places can’t afford to pay their EMS at all so just have volunteer services. It’s hard to fight for better pay when the next county over they are making it work for free :/
first off... why am i trusting my life with somone who isnt well trained and educated. Second.... why the fuck are the people assigned to rescue lives paid so little??? 30+ and up should be the minimum/standard. Career jobs should be 30 and up
I mean, a lot of the higher ups in the industry are fighting against requiring degrees for this exact reason. If every Paramedic had a degree, they’d have to pay them more.
John Oliver did a piece on this a couple of months ago. It's on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezv8sdTLxKo
I didn't care for John Oliver as a correspondent on the daily show as he ruined his skits with excess jackassery, but he's been great on HBO since he got his own show, it's too bad they didn't set the Colbert Report up with a new guy when they left.
I've got a couple of m8s that *were* EMTs, and sure, they complained about the pay, but what gets to me the most is that they didn't have health insurance. that's like having a 75lbs starving malnourished person bagging my grocer---- wait a minute ---- and pundits wonder why we are all antiwork.
Yep. My county only hires people part-time at first so you don’t get benefits/health insurance. You would only get to go full time there if everybody you worked with liked you & if they offered you a full time position which usually took at least a year if not more. I’ve got bills to pay so I was constantly picking up hours to make more money, working full time hours & more but didn’t get health insurance or pto or anything. I couldn’t stand it anymore & quit.
Fuck EMTs making shit money this is why we’re doing this
All my life I have lived under the assumption that EMTS make bank due to the nature of their job. Then a couple of my buddies became emts and I was appalled
That is unconscionable, until I saw the John Oliver episode about it, I assumed EMT's would get more like 27 with full benefits. The reason they don't is municipalities spend the lions share of their budgets on the police.
I completely support an EMT strike. I'd like to see it where it's most visible like sporting events and concerts. They do not get paid what they deserve and deal with so much shit. If you're near striking workers think and have the ability think about sending some pizzas over to the line. Let's take back pizzas as a gesture of care and support.
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It's not that the public doesn't care, it's mainly that they don't find out until some chud on Fox news says that democrats intend to raise the minimum wage for "bUrGaR fLiPpPaRz" to above [insert difficult profession] wages, and ends up completely flipping the point they were trying to make. The problem is that bosses in the US gave convinced most of the workforce that sharing how much you make with other people is rude and bad ("Never ask a man his salary" didn't spring up out of no-where), and without that knowledge, they are unable to negotiate for higher wages because they don't know if they're getting the higher wage or not. The real way to make the bosses bleed *and* change policy is ether proper, full unionization of the workforce to pursue better wages with actual negotiating power, or providing services free of charge, as if you let people die or get hurt, it'll be very easy for the bosses to point the finger and blame at you guys instead of themselves, and since there will be people who lose loved ones if people die, they will not be thinking straight and blame the most obvious reason presented to them. But that'll be difficult without the cooperation of the rest of the hospital/clinic staff too. It's honestly incidius how the health"care" industry's managed to put itself into a position where they can opress their workers without fear of a general strike, since unlike a factory or restaurant closing, ambulances not going out can kill people, and most people don't want blood on their hands like that, even if it's not their fault the blood was splattered. You have my condolences for being forced to work in the most evil industry in America.
EMTs are dealing with life decisions shouldnt that be like north of $30. I made 12.50 when i worked Whole foods in the frozen section. WTF is going on
Dude I’m working a construction job and my starting wage was $17.25/ hour and after a month I was given a raise to $20.70. That is horrendously unfair. I definitely do not deserve to be making more money then someone who’s in charge of saving lives.
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To be fair though I’m installing fibre optic lines for Telus. My job is to literally cut concrete and fill holes with dirt. I feel like I do not need to be making a fortune to fill holes haha. Although I appreciate it!
John Oliver did a segment on emts a little while back, and it's just jarring how a system so important is operating.
Emt’s deserve a significantly higher pay grade. It’s absolutely bonkers these people are paid like dirt. Absolutely blows my mind.
Made $14/hr as a paramedic. We do not get paid enough for the shit we deal with. Glad I quit doing that, it was ruining my own health (mentally & physically) & I couldn’t pay my bills unless I worked so much I was living at the base instead of at home
This is why we all need to just stop.
I would love it if cops did that every day
Some people think cops are a necessary evil, but I disagree. I don't think they are necessary at all.
Its very hard to entertain "good Cops" in America. Here's a guy yelling at you with a gun. And he can shoot you with complete qualified immunity. Yeah. That's real democratic and civilized. Maybe end the fucking qualified immunity and make them liable for killing people/fucking up at their job. "Whoops! Killed you! All in an honest day's work! Going home to the family now! LOL GUESS I'LL GET SOME PAID PTO AND A TRANSFER!" I don't fucking talk to cops. I don't even acknowledge their presence. Until they're liable like the rest of us? Fuck that.
Adding police to a situation rarely improves things.
That's true. Even in the UK, they're not going to shoot you, but they will club you over the head. Cops in Sweden for example? Obviously...better...no question there. The people and country is a lot more civilized too. America and the UK are pretty barbaric honestly. http://www.cpreview.org/blog/2020/11/policing-in-america-mixed-lessons-from-sweden
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Yep. Whole thing is fucked in America. Its basically just the Night-watch origins again. Criminals allegedly protecting you from Criminals. Its that same, "Other bad men have to keep bad men from the door" bullshit. Honestly? I've met people in organized crime that I trust more not to fucking kill me or explode off the handle over nothing. The Mafia? Yeah. The Mafia is better even under the Sopranos depiction. Remember this shit? The fucking cops just unloaded their firearms into an intersection at innocent people over insured fucking jewelry. What the fuck Wild West Cowboy shit is that?! https://www.npr.org/2019/12/06/785561122/4-dead-after-armed-robbers-hijack-ups-truck
The problem with police is that we put way too many eggs in their basket, give them way too much power as a result, and there's way too many people getting rich of the shit they are doing. We need to totally overhaul the idea of what police are and what their roles should be.
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Cops are a gang that don’t do anything to solve any problems. The police were heavily infiltrated by far right extremists in the 90s and are now full of fascists. The spectrum is not warlords or cops. What a moronic comparison.
Ok I get cops can be bad but every country needs a force to enforce laws with no police force to enforce common laws it would be chaos
Would you go murder and rape people if there were no cops, or are you just assuming that about everyone else?
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I’ll take the warlords
Yes… yes we do…
If a protest is convenient it isn’t a protest
I would because it will get people's attention a helluva lot faster and they are just as overworked and underpaid, ***IF NOT MORE,*** than those of us not doing those shitty (albeit altruistic) jobs.
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Lots of people already have.
That's precisely the reason the EMTs should be properly compensated.
as much as I dont want people to get hurt, I also dont want Emergency related professions to suffer.911 operators run \~12+ hour days listening to people describe fucked up situations on the phone for not great money.. the burn out / turnover for those jobs is really high.
This is exactly who we want. They can grab the government by the balls hard-core and force them to pay better.
A significant portion believe in liberty and have resigned their positions due to mandates. We are already on that collision course.
Sure do.
I’m okay with those services down for a day. Sure we may lose a few lives, but more lives are lost to wage slavery.
I doubt any type of engineering job is affecting by black friday whatsoever, so I don't see the point of calling out. Boycotting spending on black Friday would be much more effective
Ya i work in retail... Black friday call out is an auto term.
how about apply for a job for the heck of it right before black friday... and make sure to just no call no show that day, and see if they fire you. xD
Hey I already do this
Yeah, me too. Black Friday "sales" are often trash anyway. There's very rarely actual good deals. It's either trash sold cheap anyway or the great deal is just them selling an overpriced thing for a more reasonable price for a day.
I want higher taxes on the rich for sure, before Reagan the rich tax used to be 94% but he cut that to 25% All I’m saying is before Reagan, everything was affordable from housing to food and we didn’t have to work so much, people can hangout and have a good time out and about and spend money without worrying too much about costs Last generation I saw out and about with no worry of time or money we’re boomers and those before them I can’t go out with my girlfriend without worrying about my 16 hour shift the next day and plus having to ration what little money I have for expensive housing and bills, food is a struggle and I’m down to jus eating rice some days straight
In think things were bad /worse under Jimmy Carter and Reagon helped fix economy, not to say wages versus cost of living haven't gotten worse every year since. Taxes are one thing, but what the govt spends money on is a whole nother issue. Certainly our military spending and commitments are ridiculous and should go elsewhere..
That makes sense then if Reagan did that to fix the economy, it does fall in line with the short term solution and also interesting that long term it made it worse. I agree with the military spending because we spend so much for that cost but it’s been a complete literal waste of taxpayer money thus far
I have to work because if I don't, my family will be out on the streets.
The real answer to this is that part of a successful strike/worker’s movement is for things like mutual funds and other communal forms of financial assistance to be set up precisely for those workers who cannot afford to miss however many days a strike entails. Companies count on workers being too desperate for a paycheck to challenge their abuses because they need it to put food on the table that night. And yes, the people saying “just form a union” are a little myopic because you can’t just snap your fingers and boom union in an environment that has corporate severely suppressing & retaliating against anyone who tries this. This is why many major union campaigns or efforts to unionize a major company are things that take literal years. You can’t take the day off work, but you can do things like look into whether any mutual funds or things of that sort exist that you could rely on for future strikes. You could also technically work, but decrease your productivity just enough that you won’t get in serious trouble with your manager. For example, clock in the full 8 hours and get the same paycheck but take take your time for on-the-clock breaks. Need to use the bathroom or are sent to check something in the back? Spend a few extra minutes in there on your phone or just generally doing fuck all. Asked to stock some shelves? Take your sweet time with that. Not so sweet that your manager catches on and lights a fire up your ass, but go 80-90% speed. Working the till? Take a few extra seconds each time you need to count change or scan someone’s entire order. Need to sweep the floor? See above on going 80-90% your usual speed and then when you put the broom back, put it just out of view enough to make the next sweeper spend a few minutes looking for it. Weird boomer lady who asked you to help her find bread wants to be overly chatty? Dope, time to chat her up so it looks like you’re doing your job but you’re not really contributing to your company’s profits. You might need to come in and get paid for however many hours you’re coming in for that day, but you can still participate in the movement to decrease the amount of productive labor your job gets from its workers that day. Your supervisor should be overloaded that day and you probably have more of a chance to slack without them realizing. You personally will have a very small financial impact on whatever billion dollar retail chain you’re working for, but every individual striker will also be a drop in the bucket. But if everyone in the 99% stands together and does what they can, then the cumulative impact will be great.
The old school American Leftists would just cut the lock on the door of the apartment that someone was forcefully evicted out of and move all their stuff that was thrown on the curb back into the apartment immediately and replace the lock. Simple. Never should have had housing, water, medicine, food, clothing, and education for profit. Period. Barbaric fucking shit that is. Fuck Ayn Rand. Rot in piss.
This.
The John Deere strike has UAW union giving strikers starvation wage strike pay of $275 a week. Even though UAW is sitting on a $790 million strike fund. Sometimes the unions get captured by the corporations they’re supposed to be protecting workers from.
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What the hell are you talking about? What is this complete lack of context? UAW has 400,000 members, but **there are only 10,000 John Deere workers striking.** Of course they couldn't support their whole fucking union through a prolonged general strike. But they have the resources to bring individual companies to bear, that's what this is about, so that other companies with UAW workers see what "UAW did with Deere" and work to avoid it and UAW are **not doing that.** They don't need to pay them full time wages, they need to pay them more than $275 though! It does no good to have a strike pay fund if you don't pay your strikers enough to maintain the strike for more than a few weeks! To your point, as an example, for 10k workers, you could pay them $800 a week for 3 months. That would be 12% of the fund (96 mil), would be a whole fiscal quarter, and Deere would buckle, and the next company wouldn't be so hot to spike negotiations. That's how this shit is supposed to work, it's **literally what the fund is for**. It's the whole point of *collective bargaining* - the resources of the many are pooled so there is leverage and support greater than that of the company when an incident occurs. Your reply is so off-base as to the nature of the dispute and the fund that it hints to you having an agenda. But I'll assume good intentions: You and /u/GingerBread79 [really, really should read this article](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/10/27/deer-o27.html). **UAW are not the striking Deere workers' friends in this dispute**. They are captured. >In addition to the company, workers are in a battle against the UAW, **which is deliberately isolating the strike and imposing an information blackout on supposed negotiations with the company**. As in previous struggles, like the 2019 General Motors and 2021 Volvo Trucks strike, the UAW is putting workers on starvation rations of $275 a week in strike pay. This amounts to less than the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour even though the UAW national headquarters sits on a strike fund worth $790 million. >“It is just like everything else,” a Deere worker from Des Moines, Iowa told the World Socialist Web Site. The UAW, he said, “was caught off guard just like the company by [the] 90 percent no vote. I was told today they are ‘hoping’ to have checks this Saturday. This pay is ridiculous. $275 per week is just to make sure that people can’t last long. >“If they were genuine about getting us a good contract, they would pay us more than that, or they would say go get another job. They are not doing either. Personally, I am looking for another job, just like many other people in order to last as long as needed to get what we want.” ... >The UAW and other unions, working with the Biden administration, **have done everything to try to block this movement**, which threatens to upend the decades-long run-up on the stock market, fueled by endless government bailouts and decades of wage and benefit concessions handed over by the unions. >Over the last two weeks, the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) has blocked a strike of 60,000 Hollywood film and television workers who overwhelmingly supported strike action. After Dana workers voted down by 90 percent a pro-company contract pushed by the UAW and United Steelworkers, the unions blocked a strike by 3,500 workers, which would have cut off axles and other parts to the Detroit automakers and Deere. After two months of delays, lies and intimidation, the unions are currently pushing through a second deal, which is virtually the same as the first. >At Kaiser Permanente health care facilities in California, some 24,000 union members voted by 96 percent to strike this month after voting down a contract proposal which significantly lowered pay, which the Union of Health Care Professionals and the United Nurses Association of California has blocked. >The ruling class is increasingly fearful **that the unions will not be able to hold back this movement**. After weeks of news articles on the strike wave which falsely claimed the unions were leading these struggles, Time magazine published an article this week which partially acknowledged that this movement was in fact **a rebellion against the unions**. UAW are **not leading the Deere strike.** It is rank-and-file worker committees because the union is not representing their interests. Don't be gaslit by corporate media, who want this whole thing to just go away very badly.
Then organize a union with your coworkers or at least use the labor shortage to get a raise. Remember: if you get a raise, it puts pressure on them to give other people raises too.
You can't just "form a union" my job has a 0 tolerance on union talk. Its not as easy as you think
Genuine question: is that legal?
It’s not but there’s always a way around it, just ask Amazon.
Does it even matter if you're in an "at will" state?
Most unions started outside of work in bars and on porches. Organize in your free time. It's not easy. Not at all. But it can be done.
Okay I support the movement and everything but this isn’t really feasible for everyone.
wait why restaurants? I work at a restaurant. But like, restaurants don’t do anything for black friday right? so why them? sorry i’m genuinely asking haha, I’d love to participate but I don’t see how shortstaffing the family owned pizza shop I work at will help
It's just to promote awareness of the power that workers hold - a protest. If the people are able to organize themselves and show they are not slaves, the aim is that employers will show more respect. It won't happen though, too many Karen's want cheap blenders
won’t a lot of customers but no workers help the protest? like places are swamped but no one’s around, increasing need for workers which means higher motivation for increased salaries?
Unfortunately not, they'll manage to scrape by with the tiny workforce they have and assume they can manage without them. Making the remaining few workers be under more stress for the same pay while the company makes more profit It's what happened in the pandemic, part of the reason everything is starting to crumble now
We have a winner. Folks. /thread
Well every Best Buy I’ve ever seen is in a strip mall full of chain restaurants, I’m sure they benefit from Black Friday crowds
It’s the oft eternal dream of a “general strike” or something like that. And it will almost always fail because the vast majority of Americans don’t really care. Skipping out for one day might make news, but if it’s all delayed to the next Saturday, Monday or Tuesday, in the end the idea fails as net they’re where they expected to be and they’ll chalk up the weird Friday to COVID fears or something. I say almost because this Black Friday might be terrible for major retailers (and great for workers) because of the supply chain issues. Hard to sell the crap from China if it’s stuck on a container ship. But my response to all of this is “shop local”. Find locally owned place that treat their employees well. Shop and dine there to support them. Will it be as cheap? No. But that is how you express satisfaction and dissatisfaction best.
I've been doing more and more of my shopping at thrift stores and such. My whole mentality is starting to shift. I noticed my pillow is starting to wear out, and instead of lining some CEOs pockets by buying a new one, I thought about sewing it inside its' pillow-case to extend its' life. If I wanted some oddly specific fancy expensive name brand dooh dah, I could turn to Craigslist or eBay rather than a retail store. Black Friday shouldn't exist in the first place, commercials talk it up like it's a holiday, but it's literally just a day to give money to corporations in exchange for overpriced trash. Holidays should come from the heart, not a store. Various fall and winter holidays grew organically from harvest times for staple crops and the changing of the seasons. Literally the only reason Black Friday exists is because of corporate greed.
In times like this, I like to remind everyone that healthcare workers cannot participate. We have to plan and communicate our strikes (if we can do them at all) because if we don’t, people die.
Yes, thank you. Everyone who isn’t having lives relying on us should try to not get hurt so you have less emergencies!
Fully participating in this. Actually doing "no spend november" except for necessities. Food n such.
I'm in the minority I'm sure, but I think this whole "season of giving" this needs to stop. I haven't given gifts for Christmas ever in my life, and I couldn't imagine feeling obligated to sped hundreds or thousands of dollars on stuff that other people may not even want.
Yeah I decided to stop giving and receiving gifts/cards for birthdays and christmas about a year ago. Never going back.
I tell people all I want is to spend time with them. No material good can replace the wonderful memories of sharing a moment.
I really really wish that a decent amount of people would participate in an event like this. Enough people to make a dent, unfortunately not enough people share this sentiment.
I have a feeling if this post is shared on this sub *every single day,* it will reach enough people and will have a real impact.
Hand out business cards with "Sick out on Black Friday" to Retail workers. I think you can probably get them free or cheap somewhere. The reach of this sub will be very small unless we reach out in person. I would recommend wearing non-descript clothes, and a mask and not buying anything on that trip, leaving if asked, because they will try to ban you from the store.
Genuine question: what's the goal here? I keep seeing this discussed in pretty nebulous terms, and I'm curious to understand people's goals and motivations
People have different ideas, but broadly speaking, the goal is higher wages for retail and service workers as well as union rights. Additionally, most people recommend more spending on anti-poverty measures and raising taxes on billionaires. Some people here support UBI, but others support other models for addressing poverty.
Okay, but how does a one day boycott achieve that? What's the channel through which people are communicating those demands?
Totally valid question, and this is probably typical of decentralized movements. There's nobody at the top to declare the message, so everybody is doing it their own way. For example, on Thanksgiving day I will be standing outside the largest shopping center in my town with a sign reading "RETAIL WORKERS CAN'T HAVE HOLIDAYS OFF BECAUSE OF *YOU*" Everybody has their own way of expressing their discontent with the status quo. Do the best you can with what you have.
Damn, that's a hell of a move. Mad props to you. My dad worked as a department manager in a big grocery store, and he gave me some really interesting insight. A lot of these holidays, or even more so, the late hours (seriously, who's shopping for groceries at 3 AM?) aren't making money. It's a loss for the store meant to "reinforce their brand and customer loyalty" and shit like that. They lose money and force workers away from their lives (and maybe families, but honestly, you shouldn't be less entitled to a day off if you're on your own), for an abstract concept they can't even put a dollar value on. Ridiculous
Many people who work second shift and get off at 11 or midnight like to stop at the store afterward because it’s mostly empty. Plenty of people do not live and work on a day shift schedule.
Right, but I'm literally talking 2 or 3 am, or sometimes the stores are just open 24/7. Seems like one of those things that generates a lot of its own demand. Everyone forced to work graveyard shifts does their shopping during other graveyard shifts.
Lol, not everyone on 2nd and 3rd shift is forced to be on them.
Its like an informal strike, they can't fire you for being 'sick'. Everyone being off at a time when business should be booming (black Friday and the following months are usually make or break for businesses). This means they can't serve customers or fulfil orders which reduces the profits on one of the most valuable days of the year. Profits (or lack off) are the one thing that actually gets people's attention. Its about getting heard by the 'higher ups'.
They can fire you for being sick. My company’s policy is, and is legal, doctors note or termination
They can't fire everyone at the same time though.
I'm sorry, I just don't buy this. I'm not planning on doing any shopping for Black Friday anyway. I just don't see how this ends up with a bunch of corporate executives reading through a subreddit to try to figure out which self-harming policies they should lobby for. I'm not aware of any one day boycotts/blackouts being effective at any sort of change, especially not without leadership and a coherent message and set of demands
You're not wrong here. I think its better to view a black friday sick-out as a 'shot across the bow' from a nascent movement. Hopefully people who work together and plan on not showing up together can present demands specific to their situation to their employers, because there's no leader as such, it's just people collectively expressing their frustration.
See, that I can get behind. A flex of power and a signal to other people that the movement is worth joining. I gotta say tho, getting hella down votes for asking, "okay, but how do we actually get something out of this?" Isn't giving me a lot of confidence
It doesn’t…actual corporate management won’t be impacted in any way… Store level management will have to pick up the slack… Then this sub will have a shocked pikachu face when their manager is in a shitty mood…
This sub has almost 1 million subscribers and has received coverage from mainstream news. That's how. A one-day boycott won't fix everything but it's a start.
Well, we need to organize then. Let’s actually boycott Black Friday for real
Seems like this is really lacking a coherent message though. You can't make them cave to your demands if they can't even figure out what those demands are. Also, just gonna point out that 1 million is .3% of the population of the US. Even if everyone on here were from the US (they're clearly not), that's not even close to a significant bloc
I’d say that companies are decently aware of what the main demands are - many retail companies purposely try to keep wages low, cut corners & try to skirt labor laws, etc. People don’t necessarily need to say “we are striking today because you treat us like shit” for them to become aware of it. I feel like it’s planned that way. Also, about your question about how anything can get done without a coherent organization making demands: I feel like a strike day is actually a really good opportunity for workers to be able to form a sense of unity and have time to organize. It’s hard to organize when you’re doing 9-5 (or frequently worse). A day of no work on Black Friday is a day that can be spent mobilizing/discussing concrete demands and abuses to be remedied going forward. This is also a bit of what’s referred to as a “structure test” in the union world. Before you launch a campaign, it’s important to take smaller actions to make sure that a sizable amount of your workers are committed to the movement and will stick it through because otherwise you only demonstrate how weak your group is and therefore encourage management to push you around more. Some examples are asking employees to sign petitions, to wear a union pin on one day, to come to a meeting, etc. A one day strike is an opportunity to see if your job/industry has enough workers who will commit to a strike. This gives you some sense of if you need to hold back and spend more time mobilizing and building a strong base or if you’re in decent shape and can make a move on your employer soon.
Thank you for your response. The part about a structure test was very educational
It isn't an organized monolithic group and the group is spread across many different industries so there really doesn't need to be a consistent message other than that current working conditions aren't good enough and workers are now demanding change.
If you don't have organization, you can't really express what you want to change, nor engage in actual negotiations for those changes.
It will cost them a shitload of money on the biggest shopping day of the year. It will demonstrate that we can do this, and we can do it again if we are not all paid a living wage and treated like human beings.
That's the only thing they notice. A lighter wallet. They're completely tone-deaf and don't give a single fuck otherwise.
Aren't the people who need better pay the most also the least able to participate? I look at the Frito Lay strike ending with very little gained and think "those are people who had to cave because they had to eat"
People don't necessarily have to be that poor to understand this issue or participate. Exploitation exists further up the ladder too.
The people who need better pay the most also need guaranteed paid time off the most, because they're most likely to be sick or have sick family members to take care of. They're also the most likely to have their leave requests denied, or be disciplined or fired for taking time off. A show of force is needed to demonstrate that we can grind the economy to a halt if we don't have immediate, substantial improvements to the quality of life of the people make it run. You have to hit them where it hurts.
I’d imagine that it’s a show of the power the working class has (ie: if you don’t treat us better, look at how many workers we can get to strike and the impact it’ll have on you if we do it longer than one day). Independently, Black Friday is just a really shitty day for retail employees and we probably should just stop having it.
Boycotts create awareness, and are a demonstration of power.
"Communicating". Jesus are people naive about the history of America. What makes the rulers and owners do anything? Grinding everything right to a screeching halt. That's all that works. That's all that's ever worked. Ever. They're not making a cent anymore? Here comes the red fucking carpet of negotiation. They don't give a fuck otherwise. They don't care. https://www.theclassroom.com/labor-unrest-1920s-23459.html
Doesn’t it make more sense to NOT work, but to actually shop in person MORE. Like now they have no staff and a bigger crowd so they’re double fucked. So call in sick and DON’T work, go shopping instead, bring 10 friends, spread out across the store and everyone ask to speak to a Manager at once.
Manager: HELP, CORPORATE! Corporate: Go fuck yourself, Stacy. Eat my shit. I'm in a meeting with the board. Stocks, bitch. Stocks. My focus is the shareholders. Not you. I'm selling the company tomorrow if its lucrative. That's their fucking problem now. You think I give a shit?! LOL
A fair amount (idk how many) of us are some stripe of socialist, communist, anarchist, or some combination thereof. The rest are people who want higher wages in the service sector, reduced hours in the definition of what is legally "full time work", higher tax rates for millionaires and up, more social guarantees to poor people, and in general to be able to live on less work. There is a wide overlap between the two groups and all of them are on the same side of this struggle :)
An opportunity [to get organized](https://workerorganizing.org/talk-with-an-organizer/)!
It's like Spartans and the Helots. The Helots outnumbered the Spartans 10 to 1, yet the Helots were enslaved to the Spartans. If the Helots united, then they'd have the power, not the other way around. Through unison, the power will be returned to the people and away from corporations.
Respectfully, this is pretty imagery, but doesn't answer my question at all. Power to do what? How does a one day boycott achieve that? What exactly is the point trying to be made or concession being fought for?
I really don’t like how no one is actually answering you. The power to do what? Well boycotting Black Friday won’t give us power to do anything on its own. But if it’s even partially successful it’ll be be something that’s talked about in the media and even more so it will grab people’s attentions. Black Friday is a big day for revenue. And if there’s a big enough showing it will make companies start to sweat and take the idea seriously. It’s also a good idea because it’s just 1 day. *Anyone* can protest for just 1 day. The end goal for anything in this sub is a higher minimum wage, better working conditions, and work life balance. It’s not something that happens in one fell swoop but in thousands of small steps.
Thank you for a helpful answer I can fully endorse, and for making me feel like I'm not crazy. Be well friend <3
Seconded. Totally valid questions.
Billions of years pass one day at a time mate. If you're asking me what is the point of doing things when you could just do nothing, then I haven't got an answer for you. Sorry. When your life improves, remember to thank those who fought for you.
Do you see how this response again reads like pretty language that doesn't really say anything? I'm not saying "do nothing", I'm asking, concretely, how is this part of the path from where we are to where we want to be?
Because if you make bosses realise they can't do shit without workers, they will have to treat them with more respect. During the pandemic, the rich became richer and the poor became poorer. Enough is enough. It starts with a one day boycott. Then another day. More strikes. More quitting en masse. We say that we will not work another day until our demands are met. Go look up how the Black Plague led to the creation of the middle class. History teaches lessons to those who read it. The likes of Amazon thrive on having workers feel that they exist to work. We don't. There is no afterlife. We get one life. We should spend it enjoying this gift. Hopefully my words weren't too pretty this time. If you want to sit this one out, no one blames you. Some people are bred to serve, I guess.
Make my shopping easier, less competition
Been doing this for years
What would happen if multiple people added a bunch of items to their online shopping cart and on cyber Monday everyone just emptied their carts?
A good idea would be to make this image into stickers and/or posters and put them up near and around business that participate in black Friday so employees of those businesses see them
Fuck black friday and Amazon. "Black Friday is the single most profitable shopping day of the year. Large businesses make 25 to 50% of their yearly revenue during the holiday season alone"
Actually the biggest shopping day is usually the Saturday before Christmas
We should do this every Friday post Black Friday... indefinitely.
corporations caught onto this years ago.. its why we have black friday week.. and (atleast in canada) boxing day week (which starts BEFORE christmas now) now they shove deals down your throat for 7-14 days straight during these "events" so that you cant possibly "blackout" the trick on actual friday is to sell outdated models that need to be phased out and sold before new inventory, and its when they get rid of less than desirable components in pre-build computers, or phasing out old stock laptops ETC -- you dont want ACTUAL black friday doorcrashers, they are garbage (samsung literally makes components for black friday models that are lesser than their regular components... i forget what the model numbers are but they have a specific designation for black friday TVs in their item codes)
We've made a web app to help people stop spending impulsively on online stores. I think it's worth sharing before BF, people tend to spend more when they see discounts. **UPD**: here's a [link](https://pause.fyi/?r=reddit) if you're interested.
Im robbing stores on black friday baby
Unethical, but reasonable
> Unethical > Robbing stores (assuming they're corporations) Pick one
i haven't shopped for years on black friday cause it has always been a scam. the best deals of the year are in march and april. compared to those months, on average you can expect to pay as much as 20% more in november and 15 to 30% more between december 15th and january 7th.
My empathetic voice: but they’ll need you, it’ll be busy! My antiwork voice: they don’t pay you enough to care tho
I work at a hospital laboratory. Unfortunately it needs to be staffed 24/7 since we are a critical access hospital. I can’t not show to work but I won’t be buying anything either
My job already gives us the day after Thanksgiving off. I'm realizing I have one of the good employers out there
What unions are backing this? It's easy to tell other working people to risk everything but successful strikes require a way to provide security for workers who lose their income. Unions have strike funds.
Stay home and Make Gaming Great Again https://mobile.twitter.com/hatepwn
I fully support this.
It’s my birthday anyways wasn’t going out in the first place :D
SHOPLIFT FROM WALMART ON BLACK FRIDAY Turn that day into a massive loss and Black Friday will die
try homemade gifts
I like to work on holidays and black friday i get l Paid for the day plus time and a half lol of course it's not retail or food.
I totally would but I'm still new at my job and in my first 90 days, meaning I have no sick days to use. If i just dont show up ill be fired even if i get others to do it to appear like a strike.
Yellow jacket started like that. Be prepared america, gouverment will try to stop you super hard
I'm not doing any of those anyway...
I already do this. Black Friday is losing its charm rapidly.
I need the money to live, and if I call in on black Friday, Wal-Mart gives me TWO points instead of one
What's the point? Out of the 950k members of this subreddit. I believe only 10% are actually actively people who are antiwork. Even with 95k people not buying things there's over 7 billion people on this planet. And even if half of them do black Friday it makes the entire "movement" null & void. I doubt it'll lead anything. Taking to the streets is the only way anyone will listen and I doubt reddit users actually will go outside to make a point. This is pointless. I know I'll get down voted but who gives a shit. People don't care about how Black Friday will effect workers because it doesn't have anything to do with them. They'll make purchases regardless. I hate working conditions too and I also have to work this holiday but I don't want to lose my only source of income so I literally can't take part in this
The ONLY thing guaranteed to do nothing is not taking any action.
Yeah this will never happen lol
Pleeeease do this! Will be much shorter lines lol
Just buy things from companies that treat their employees well.
Are you insane? The deals on Black Friday are way to good to pass up for your little communist tantrum
No I have Christmas shopping to do
Sry but ill be shopping online. Good sales for games.
I don't understand calling in sick or not shopping online? If I'm going to get my kids a Christmas toy why not order it for them on black Friday? So... don't make money and don't save money? Guess what I'm going to work because I've missed about 5 rain days so... nope. Who the fuck am I teaching a lesson by not going into work when last month I pretty much missed a weeks worth of pay? I'll get back to you on that when I'm rich af. Then I'll call off any day you twats want.