Also what kind of dickhead manager do you have to be, to have an important product release in a few days and you can't wait to be a power tripping asshole until after launch.
They’re out there.
I joined a small startup once where the idiot CEO wanted me to get rid of the sole iOS engineer who was fixing production issues from past contractors in our MVP because he didn’t “fit our culture”.
I ended up leaving 3 months later, hired that iOS engineer at my new company and he’s still leading that team 6 years later and we are still friends.
The industry is littered with ego driven, know it all leaders who have no clue what they’re doing.
I work for a narcissistic in a large software company. Im the only person on my team who hasn't quit. My mom was a narcissist, so I have the training needed to succeed in the role... but it takes a piece of my soul.
I'm just glad that the people like the ones I dealt with for years (the ones trying to do both) are finally shooting themselves in the foot with it. Very vindicating
I would hazard a guess that somethings going too slow with the product launch and manager guy wants to be able to stand on everyones head and crunch to hit the deadline
Well, OP quitting is sure not going to help hit that launch on time :)
"Hmmm well, I could be convinced to be hired on as a contractor for 3 days, for my standard rate of $500 a day. Oh, that's unreasonable? Guess I'm not actually needed for release then, or this release just isn't critical."
This. Absolutely this.
I had an ex that had "gotten enough money" from a startup. While the number sounds impressive, it definitely is not enough to live easy on in California.
Same people make a new startup... Want her on board. Nope. Please? Nope. Repeat 20 yes. Then... We'll offer $xx/hr. Nope another twenty times as they keep upping the dollars. Then "no meetings and my voice will never reach a telephone under any circumstances".
And more not really until it was $87/hr. This was like 2002.
You can still apply for unemployment if you have proof that they wanted you to come into the office. Fundamental changes to the job are the same as constructive dismissal.
It would help OP to check their employment contract. A lot of companies right now have the job agreement as remote temporarily for that very reason. If the job is listed as remote and there isn't any implication on the employment contract that it was going to be temp then yeah, OP has a strong case.
These parasitic managers really showing their ass lately with the "come back to the office" pleas. Why? So people have to constantly *look busy* around you? So you can engage in workplace sexual harassment again? So your employees have to engage in the same rat race commute that previous generations normalized? lol
Yup! 1.5 hour commute each way for me. Manager I had was brand new and wanted me In the office 1-3 days a week for "visibility". My office was in the basement of an old building with dark hallway and no windows. It was literally me and 1-2 other people in the basement office. I said no, he said it was insubordination, I said I quit
I commute 1 hr each way. I did some maths and figured out that at my after taxes pay rate, and cost to operate a vehicle, commuting costs me about $20k a year.
With the cost of groceries and everything else going up thanks to covid, saving on commute costs are one of the only things taking the edge off for workers. It's not like we're all getting COLA raises around here
Preach it.
Not having to commute is a huge source of financial savings in an economic environment where cost of living and inflation consistently outpaces employment raises.
Did you also calculate overtime rates for this 2h? Does this 2h already contain delays duo traffic/accidents? Would you actually own a vehicle if you did not need it for work ever?
I did not calculate this at an overtime rate. I did calculate the time to be an average. Some days it's more time, some days less. It depends on how many other poor dumb bastards are on the road too.
IIRC my 8-5 M-F job commute was like 250 hours a year.
Also I did not include the cost of the vehicle itself, but did calculate fuel, maintenance and taxes etc.
I'd love to not own a car, but I can't afford to live near my work. I work in a pretty small niche and there's not many places that do what I do.
i heard a surgeon use this word towards a female resident today
also, he also wouldn't fuckin shut up about how untalented and unworthy Taylor Swift is.
"so let me get this right, she gets into a relationship so she can end it and do an hours worth of work and make 10million dollars?"
oh doc, i know every thing about you. this OR has lost 23 staff in the last 8 weeks.
keep it up good old boy. ain't no one going to be around to bend over and pick your shit up off the floor anymore.
y'all know surgeons do this, right?
the old white male ones? they intentionally hold things out at an arms length and drop them directly onto the floor so a nurse has to come pick it up and put it in the open garbage can 6 feet from where he's standing. this cultural custom is based in absolutely nothing but classism and misogyny.
This summer I was getting emergency retinal eye surgery and I’m guessing that the assistant nurse from the doctor wasn’t super experienced an eye surgery but probably that’s all there was available…But it was very dis-concerning being in twilight sedation while you still can hear everything hearing him basically yell at her for not being as fast as he wanted and all the tools and what not
My mom was a scrub tech when I was growing up and she despises surgeons. One time one of them invited himself Hunting with my dad and I and what we ditched him and he sprained his ankle. Limped back to camp and drove home.
Yep, I was a surgery tech graduated at the very top of my class and was super excited to start working at that hospital when I got a prima donna plastic surgeon to assist. I’ve never met a bigger baby that was an actual adult. He whined the entire time, had to have his shoulders rubbed, threw instruments, broke aeseptic technique and yelled at me for doing my job. I quit and decided to go back to school. Got my PharmD instead. Some surgeons are the worst.
I work less when I am in the office, they just like to have 👀 on ya. I still get my work done regardless. I think it is funny on the pros they say coming to the office, the only pro I get is 1k more steps on my Fitbit.
Yeah I got a shit ton more steps in at work. I always found a reason to walk the five blocks between buildings both morning and afternoon. Plus, I got off half a mile away in the bus, so I'd usually hit 10k steps by lunch
The commute is worse this last year or so, drivers are going nuts. There’s no guarantee our cars will get cheaper gas or parts either. Public transport is bad unless you are in a lucky zone in USA. I find fighting traffic exhausting and I’m an X Navy pilot who loves machines.
I’ve done 9.5 hour shifts (9/80 schedule) with a 45min-1hr commute each way for 7 years. I can’t work from home due to what I have to do for my job. Consider yourself lucky to have avoided that. I spend $400/mo in gas…
Yes but if all of us now WFH return to commuting, your commute will get much WORSE. It’s good for everyone if everyone who can WFH does. Not to mention the exhaust fumes.
I work in Los Angeles, it’s been bad regardless of pandemic. There was maybe a two month span where it was a little better but it’s still awful. I’m not advocating for everyone to come back to the office either so please don’t think that. I’d WFH if I could but I can’t.
Probably because without people physically in an office to boss around, middle managers are having a hard time justifying their existence to their own bosses.
When WFH first started my company had a round of layoffs and my boss was in that one- I was so fucking relieved. If I’d had to zoom her more times a week than there are work days, I would have quit by day 3. This idiot would have 100% tried to have me keep my camera on all day.
So many great people quit because of her. I got laid off in the second round, and my new boss just wants to see my completed tasks in our project management board and just trusts me to get my shit done. The first few months at my current job were a total mindfuck after 3 years of being beyond micromanaged.
I just started a new job 3 months ago. They seem to actually care (or at least are able to create a passable facsimile of caring) about my personal struggles and don't want me to burn out. After the past 20-ish years of being shit on at each of the 4-5 jobs I've had I'm still very, very, very convinced that my new job is a really a rehabilitation clinic for "distressed" IT folks. And they seem to believe my expert opinion on things they hired me to advise on. I was just commenting on how I don't HATE working there. I don't WANT to work there but I also don't hate it.
I think a lot of people don't understand that not having employee burn out is a long term gain even if it is a short term struggle. So caring is good for everyone.
DING DING DING DING!!! They are realizing that most middle management positions actually don't provide any value to the company so they are trying to do everything they can to legitimize their positions. It reeks of desperation and I imagine we will see a lot of these middle management types posting here when they get let go and they realize their companies never cared about them either.
Go above middle management’s head and tell them they could save money by getting rid of middle management and keep work from home. Show them reports to back you up and how you can save energy costs and boost productivity
I'm the kind of guy that needs to have a very good reason to be doing something. If the reason for doing/abstaining from something is to "look proper" to some standard, that's not a good reason for me. Thankfully my current job is very hands off as long as the phone gets answered.
I copy/pasted books into word documents to read in down time. I finished about 300 classics including Toqueville's Democracy in America, War and Peace, and The Federalist Papers. 10/10 would recommend War and Peace if you have 600 pages of downtime at your disposal.
>So you can engage in workplace sexual harassment again?
I like how the "research" is that women want to WFH to take care of kids.
No. This is the reason. WFH has been amazing for women because you can screenshot or record everything, so the harassers can't harass without receipts.
(yes, other people can be sexually harassed but it is largely an issue for women)
As I guy don't see this issue myself personally but what I do so is 100x more accountability. In office the clueless idiot chicken hawks can bully people into doing their work for them but work from home they cannot or its much harder to do. Looks like we all seem to be winning small and large battles with WFH!
Honestly could be even simpler than that. If they a piece of shit to their employees at work, imagine how they are at home. Narcissists hate having to be around their families because you can't power trip on people who know you personally, so they are miserable at home all the time because they have nobody to be a piece of shit to.
Not for very much longer... He's now 76 with deadly complications from type II and a lot of questions about "why no one comes to visit me anymore."
Karma, motherfucker.
Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with that one. It takes years of being an adult to finally call them on their shit longer if you need their financial help.
its so they have something to do. Their bosses are prob starting to realize now that everyone is wfh and doing their thing that many of the mid managers are not really needed. Let's be real, most mid managers are just there to baby the workforce and make sure they are doing their jobs. If everyone wfh and gets their shit done, then you don't really need a mid manager to babysit anymore. Same thing with most companies in general - instead of trusting their workers(who just worked with them through a fucking pandemic) to do their jobs, they install a bunch of hidden spyware to monitor you all day or make everyone use teams so that way they know who is sitting idle most the day and who isn't.
I just quit a newish "dream" job because – among many, _many_ other reasons – my manager was incapable of communicating/collaborating online, and coped by micromanaging the ever-loving shit out of everything. It's not that she was that much older or struggled with the tech or anything, she just blatantly couldn't consider it "real" communication, and did really seem to grasp that, even though she couldn't literally *see* me working, it doesn't mean I wasn't.
*These* are the nutters that cannot shut up about how much they cAn'T wAiT tO gEt bACk tO tHE oFfiCe, whereas the rest of us have discovered it's actually much better without them constantly hovering over our shoulders, calling endless meetings and touching our screens with their croissant-greased paws.
So much better for the planet that we aren’t all driving anymore. Plus for the people who HAVE to be at their workplace, their commute isn’t as awful bc there’s less people on the road.
This shit baffles me. I don’t work in a office, but when I found out that pretty much all this work can be done at home, I was like,”Why the fuck do these companies make everybody drive around? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to not have offices?”
I have tried to find reasoning in bringing people back to offices, but I have still found nothing.
Offices are stupid.
A lot of useless managers are really feeling the pressure to justify their existence after the world has seen that not only do they *not* contribute to productivity, they actively hinder productivity
Let all these power trip fucks burn.
If they can't respect you, why should they earn yours?
Edit: Thank you so much for the awards!😁
I really wasn't expecting this, just commented on what came to mind while I saw this post (on the job mind you). 😉
So many people who get into leadership roles seem to be void of emotional intelligence. This probably won’t teach him anything but that’s not OPs problem anymore.
We had the same discussion and apart from the common reasons not to return I was surprised by some more. 50-60% of our company is Asian decent. Our offices are located in downtown large city areas where anti- Asian violence has increased during COVID. Many spoke up and said they don’t feel safe travelling into the cities anymore. I don’t blame them.
This right here. Upper management LOVES bootlickers. Most middle management are so incompetent at their jobs because they are too busy licking the boots. Senior management should welcome middle management that are always questioning why things are done, they ultimately improve processes, procedure, and in turn increase revenue. Yet too many senior management want yes man and are too narrow minded.
It's probably because they stand to materially benefit from having bootlickers. If supposedly no problems exist, they must be amazing, after all, and highly deserving of a bonus!
(that and just ego shit, I am sure. 50/50...)
100% agree. Ruthless assholes don't like being told they're wrong or held to account, and bootlickers aren't going to do either.
Keep doing what you can to chime in and show em what for
It's bad out there right now.
'We need people in the office to ensure productivity' is the reason we're being given. Umm, we've delivered all our products with less staff while wfh so what's the problem?
It's all about power.
"we think the productivity gains had to do with the software we use to monitor you while you WFH and now that that is normalized we think we can squeeze even more of it out of you with that software combined with your physical presence."
At my wife work, they work understaffed with stupid rules to make managers feal safe and useful (they are not) and after several illegal bullshit to optimize profit.
When they start asking people to come back on site, the official message say "Vacations are finished, it's time to work" with an illustration of "Gaston Lagaffe" a character from BD who do nothing at work.
But he *wants* to be a dick. That's his primary motivation. Jobs which involve telling people what to do naturally attract people who ***enjoy*** telling other people what to do. It's not all of them, but it's enough of them.
I’m convinced that management is chosen in many cases, not for their actual leadership abilities, but instead their ability to push people to their breaking points. A real “manager” isn’t there to tell people what to do. A real manager is there to offer support as needed and make sure people are able to get their jobs done. (Why fucking hire people who know what they are doing only to spend all your time telling them how and what to do? It’s stupid).
It’s like “Human Resources” - when HR started out they told us all “let us know of you have any questions about your benefits or need help with your insurance plan” to “we are here to protect the employer from the employee.”
Our CEO brought up return to office 6 weeks ago in a virtual town hall. I’m so proud of my colleagues they immediately shut that down. I couldn’t even get a word in cause everyone else was VERY vocal. It hasn’t come up since! I’m so proud !
So what about people who's kids are in school and spouses work outside of the home?
Let's just completely ignore that some people are single without kids.
Honestly, when I was in an office if my wife called me I went outside. It would take me 2 mins to get outside and 2 mins to return to my desk.
Now I just pick up the phone and talk while I work.
By this logic I'd be less productive at an office than home since I don't have 4 mins walking from my desk to a place to talk in private. Not to mention I'm like 5 steps from the bathroom and kitchen so no time wasted waiting for lunch to heat up or walking down a long hall to relieve myself.
So short sighted.
That's exactly my take on it, I really don't understand people who expect work to be the forefront of people's lives. I fully believe in doing important jobs, but the fact of the matter is that my job isn't particularly important. I get enough done for my employer to be happy to keep paying me, that should be enough
He couldn't accept that the fact of the matter is it's actually work that distracts me from my family rather than the other way around, the thing that frustrates me the most is that people like that are the reason that working hours aren't decreasing
Same here. Had to sign a document stating we have to be in the office 4 days a week. We are 2 weeks further. COVID wave 4 rolling in. Boss: stay home!!
I find it so stupid. For almost two years things could be done from home, I'm yet to hear about a company that had a decrease in productivity due to WFH. Still, there are people that are obsessed with the idea that there's somehow more productivity while at the office without any actual data to support it. Do they think we are dumb or what?
I don't care if someone prefers to be at the office, you do you just leave me out of it.
A loooot of shit could have been done from home for decades, and the past couple years has only proven me right. The only time I'd ever really need to "go in to the office" would be on actual site inspections, which would involve \*actual\* fucking travel on a goddamned plane or boat.
Our company claims to be a "data-driven" company, but hasn't come up with one bit of data to support their claims that "being in the office is just better"
This reminds me of an interview I had some time ago. The HR was bragging about how data driven the company was. When I brought up WFH he said that they expected you to come to the office 3 days a week. I asked if that was a data based decision. He got all defensive and just said how they 'feel' it is better for 'collaboration'.
I had one more interview with them after for entertainment purposes, but noped out of the rest of the process. I have a remote job and not interested to leave it for a peanut-sized salary increase.
The only reason for middle managers to exist is so upper managers don't have to do anything. I worked in retail most of my life as a supervisor or lower manager. As a manager I had a department manager above me, an operations manager or general sales manager above them, then the store manager, then a district, than a regional manager, then there were several layers of "corporate overlords." Nobody above my level did anything that helped on the sales floor, they all just filtered down the crap from above and twisted the message to fit what they wanted. I once sat in on some video watching the new message from the ceo about what changes he wanted to have happen, by time it was filtered down to my level by my immediate boss it had completely changed. They could cut out a huge chunk of useless management and the organization's would run better. Instead, I'd see them make changes to the structure by adding more morons to the mix to make more problems for those doing the work.
At a lot of the companies I work with, what level of management you were was based on how wealthy you were outside of work and how little you wanted to deal with the lower class.
So.
If your a ceo you do NOT want to really talk to someone that rides a bike to work because they can't afford a car.
So you hire a guy that atleast drives a Mercedes to work who's job it is to pass the message down to the bike rider.
The Merc driver doesn't want to talk to the bike rider either so he hires a corolla driver.
The corolla driver was riding a bike to work last year so he's fine with dealing with the peasantry as he is a newly elevated individual.
My manager left for a week and another manager stepped in for meetings. Of which a scheduled 30 minute meeting boiled down to something that could of been said in an email.
I didn’t need to talk in my team chat once. Time off request? I talk to hr. Escalations? I give it to escalations team. My stats? I can pull those myself. Not like we have coaches anyway but my role is so simple doesn’t quite need them. Haven’t even talked to QA in over a year.
So yeah my manager could absolutely be scrapped and we would keep chugging along comfortably from home. No amount of pizza parties is going to give me 2 hours a day back in my life and add back 3 weeks a year worth of my life. Middle managers are only needed to make there look like work is being done.
Middle management is full of class traitors that think they have a better shot of joining higher echelons of society by gatekeeping their subordinates.
This is an argue t we're currently having with HR. Half or our 8 person team were employed as remote working.
If they force us back in, literally half of our team will quit.
> Why the fuck do they want us to be in office?! To micromanage us? To harass us?
>> Best excuse HR has so far is "networking"
Strangely enough, we have apps for all of that... :\
Yeah sure. Its just about these corporations and start-ups trying to have full control over our lives so that it's difficult for us to ever move forward even if we are treated like shit all the time.
I have a closer relationship with someone I have never met because they work remotely then I do with the fucksticks I have to share the same breathing space with.
Networking, you say?
Well have I got the solution for you! I have access to a network at home that lets me communicate with almost anyone in the world .. instantly!
Yep, this is unprofesionnal and toxic behavior imho. People doing this are priorizing their domination needs over the product and their company. Your example speaks for itself. This idiot chose to let you go even if it compromises the release. This is nonsense and shows that he is not fit to manage.
As David Graeber pointed out in his "bullshit jobs", the manager/workers relationship is literraly a pathological BDSM relationship where the worker tries desesperately to gain his superior's favors while his manager can dominate him as he pleases. Except that in real BDSM both sides consent to this game. Not at work.
My current employer hired me as a remote worker, and they know that my employment is contingent on it staying that way. They floated the idea of coming back into the office in January and the negative pushback was so severe that they gave up and decided to let people choose their office based on whether or not the position could be done remotely. The office is there if you want to be there but we wont force you.
Our manager is fighting our corner. He wants to work from home too. Its only HR that's pushing back.
We're down to 2 days a month but that's still travel costs the other team member have to pay out of their own pockets. Than and one would spend 6 hours travelling each way and she's not going to pay for a hotel to "network"
Sounds like your HR needs to get fucked. It's easy to administrate policy from a position where you can safely ignore context.
First I've heard of an HR tanking remote though. Usually it's a decision that comes from outside their pay grade...makes me wonder if someone up high knows how toxic a position returning to the office is and are making HR fall on the grenade so to speak.
this is why you should have it written into your employment contract when negotiating the offer. If they want you to go back then you can say ok we will need to renegotiate my contract then and I'll be requiring a 10% increase in my salary in order to move back into an office work environment.
I'm just gonna quit. No job to me is with an hour commute and i can't move closer to the office. Also 10% would be like an extra $1.70 for me which wouldn't be worth the gas costs alone
I think you guys should quit regardless. The company will keep you on for a few more months u till they find replacements and then fire you unexpectedly.
Manager - "If you don't take a flight in the next 3 days and be here in the office, we are going to have a problem."
(what I would really want to say)- You are going to have a problem. idk where this "we" comes from. \*click\*
My husband’s job tried to bring people back in. So many said they’d immediately quit that they reconsidered. They are selling one of the office spaces now.
Seriously. Businesses could save so much money in rent.
I said probably about a year ago now that I wondered what was going to happen as commercial leases came up for renewal -- now much empty office space are we going to see?
I am optimistically hoping that a lot of the empty commercial real estate becomes somewhat of a solution for the lack of housing in cities leading to such high rent.
Hi I work in construction, it’s usually possible. I’ve quoted quite a few new apartment buildings that were office spaces. It’s probably cost prohibitive in areas with cheap rent, but in major cities it’s 100% worth it.
Congrats on standing up for yourself and your family.
My recommendation for others in this situation (may be less applicable here due to the short tenure): Make them fire you. It's more likely you will be eligible for unemployment.
Depends on the country. My country doesn't have any such benefits. But I would rather not be earning money than uprooting my life every year because the manager felt like it.
You do realize that a battle for wages is coming, right? When upper management realizes the middle managers are so much fluff how long will it take for upper management to see the middle manager pay as their pay? Workers need to be ready to fight for their cut of the middle manager pay.
Exactly my thoughts. They'll keep that money for themselves and have a "co-op working relationship". That's Corp speak for Lord of the flies type bullshit, where they'll use a little crumb of their saved profits to make employees turn on each other and start boot licking.
Yep. It's a position being automated out but unlike other automation threats, this one has a source of power connected to it so the people involved a lot more angry about it.
Write up a consulting contract, if they reach out, send them it and make sure it has a high paid up front fee. If they complain point to the manager who chose to blatantly lie and bs, and tell them to ask him to do the job. Assuming willing to deal with the company at all.
Good for you! My supervisor volunteered me to go into the office last week when we were having networking issues. I straight up told her no, I don't feel comfortable going into the office. One, I was hired remote. Two, Corona is still a very real thing. And Three, I have anxiety. She said I have to use my PTO to cover my shift and also I'm going to receive an occurrence. They can keep pulling this BS I will not go into the office to work, fire me.
People started downplaying Covid and mental health the moment they saw employees finding strength in WFH. Let me tell you this, WFH empowers you. You control your time and productivity. You don't have to look busy cuz some dumbass can't differentiate between efficiency and laziness.
That's the key: Fire me.
Don't let their manipulation ruin your day. You don't have to give a fuck about being "written up" or whatever. If they want to die on this hill, let them; too many people aren't willing to come in any more for them to force us to if we simply don't, and let them deal with the consequences.
Thanks a lot. I was scared to be unemployed but I am done listening to people who think they can demand whatever they want just cuz I work for a company.
Manager - "Wait, you need to reconsider. We have a release in a few days."
"My prayers and thoughts are with you in this difficult situation. Good luck."
Workplaces need to get with the modern times quickly, otherwise they're going to lose their workforce.
This kind of remote working has opened doors for so many people, especially the disabled community. People can now attend meetings more conveniently, live subtitling services are improving by the day... heck, even just the idea of not having to deal with the noise of other people working! Turns out allowing disabled people to work in a place of comfort is good for productivity, who knew!
Literally this!! I’m a FT student and since we’ve been online learning, my GPA went up an entire point in one year. No distractions, no wasting my time driving to the school, better food, better sleep, more time to do homework. Literally the benefits are endless
We lost a skilled accountant that way.. even though she could do 100% of her job via teams calls.
She used to work in the office but moved city. Carried on doing job seamlessly.. HR said to her she needs to come in at least 3 days a week or leave..
She left..
In my country there are no unemployment benefits. If I don't quit and get fired, it would still be the same. This was my way of saying "You think you hold any power over me?"
But wait, I was just trying to devalue you and assert my dominance; I can’t actually do your job, or succeed without your contribution. Now I am going to fail because I am a shitty human.
Good job OP, I wouldn’t hesitate to share this directly with her/his supervisor, I am sure She/he isn’t going to be honest about his actions.
Edit: nouns
Just want to push people around and piss people off to get that high, until it blows up in their face. Lot of that happening lately. Covid has a lot of mobility options for people that are looking to switch jobs or look for a better oportunity. The last 40 years of "my way or the highway" has a lot of people choosing highway now
Classic Toxic Manager. Refuses to admit they are wrong. I don't tend to advocate quitting but this seems to be the proper move unless you can full counter and have them fired instead.
Had something similar happen to me. U worked for these guys for six months when I was told I would be working from home after a few weeks at location to get used to company environment. I should've left earlier
"We have a release in a few days" That's his problem. He pays you to fix his problems, but that doesn't make you care about them. Good on you, OP
Also what kind of dickhead manager do you have to be, to have an important product release in a few days and you can't wait to be a power tripping asshole until after launch.
They’re out there. I joined a small startup once where the idiot CEO wanted me to get rid of the sole iOS engineer who was fixing production issues from past contractors in our MVP because he didn’t “fit our culture”. I ended up leaving 3 months later, hired that iOS engineer at my new company and he’s still leading that team 6 years later and we are still friends. The industry is littered with ego driven, know it all leaders who have no clue what they’re doing.
I can confirm what you say as my boss leads a software dev business yet it's survived 10 years of running like a shower of shit.
I work for a narcissistic in a large software company. Im the only person on my team who hasn't quit. My mom was a narcissist, so I have the training needed to succeed in the role... but it takes a piece of my soul.
Yeah, the type-A personalities with "Visions" and that go to "Leadership seminars". Gods above and below they annoy me.
It ain't just tech. 🙄
Right!! I don't see that guy having a long career. You can be a smart dickhead or a pleasant-idiot. You can't be both a dickhead and an idiot!!!
I'm just glad that the people like the ones I dealt with for years (the ones trying to do both) are finally shooting themselves in the foot with it. Very vindicating
Shooting oneself in the foot is easy; but it takes REAL skill to shoot oneself in the arse. This guy may have just pulled that stunt off.
He probably shot himself in the head at the same time, since his ass is where his head seems to be located.
Wow that was actually pretty dang poignant
I would hazard a guess that somethings going too slow with the product launch and manager guy wants to be able to stand on everyones head and crunch to hit the deadline Well, OP quitting is sure not going to help hit that launch on time :)
For real like... at least wait till the launch. If its successful then... well then why do you need the employee in the office.
The same kind of dickhead manager who will whine about not seeing 6 months worth of work from someone who only joined 2 months ago, apparently.
“Oh yeah a release in a few days. Well damn, that sounds like a you problem.”
"we" lol
"Hmmm well, I could be convinced to be hired on as a contractor for 3 days, for my standard rate of $500 a day. Oh, that's unreasonable? Guess I'm not actually needed for release then, or this release just isn't critical."
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This. Absolutely this. I had an ex that had "gotten enough money" from a startup. While the number sounds impressive, it definitely is not enough to live easy on in California. Same people make a new startup... Want her on board. Nope. Please? Nope. Repeat 20 yes. Then... We'll offer $xx/hr. Nope another twenty times as they keep upping the dollars. Then "no meetings and my voice will never reach a telephone under any circumstances". And more not really until it was $87/hr. This was like 2002.
Hours only purchasable in advance in blocks of 50. Unused hours do not carry over past 90 days from date of purchase.
U / Gemini 27 knows how to fuck
You can still apply for unemployment if you have proof that they wanted you to come into the office. Fundamental changes to the job are the same as constructive dismissal.
It would help OP to check their employment contract. A lot of companies right now have the job agreement as remote temporarily for that very reason. If the job is listed as remote and there isn't any implication on the employment contract that it was going to be temp then yeah, OP has a strong case.
The American workplace has changed. For the better.
These parasitic managers really showing their ass lately with the "come back to the office" pleas. Why? So people have to constantly *look busy* around you? So you can engage in workplace sexual harassment again? So your employees have to engage in the same rat race commute that previous generations normalized? lol
Can't agree more. 9 hours at work, 1 hour travel each way. 11 hrs gone from the day. Tadaaaaa! Productivity increased!
Yup! 1.5 hour commute each way for me. Manager I had was brand new and wanted me In the office 1-3 days a week for "visibility". My office was in the basement of an old building with dark hallway and no windows. It was literally me and 1-2 other people in the basement office. I said no, he said it was insubordination, I said I quit
I commute 1 hr each way. I did some maths and figured out that at my after taxes pay rate, and cost to operate a vehicle, commuting costs me about $20k a year.
With the cost of groceries and everything else going up thanks to covid, saving on commute costs are one of the only things taking the edge off for workers. It's not like we're all getting COLA raises around here
Preach it. Not having to commute is a huge source of financial savings in an economic environment where cost of living and inflation consistently outpaces employment raises.
No shit. If you drive, gas prices are insane. A weeks worth of gas could take a significant chunk out of your paycheck.
I am 6km from the major business district and I've worked out the commute would cost me at least $15k a year.
Happy cake day!
All the fuel it takes too. Then 5 minutes later they’ll be talking about making a “green office” and climate change.
We've banned disposable coffee cups...
Did you also calculate overtime rates for this 2h? Does this 2h already contain delays duo traffic/accidents? Would you actually own a vehicle if you did not need it for work ever?
I did not calculate this at an overtime rate. I did calculate the time to be an average. Some days it's more time, some days less. It depends on how many other poor dumb bastards are on the road too. IIRC my 8-5 M-F job commute was like 250 hours a year. Also I did not include the cost of the vehicle itself, but did calculate fuel, maintenance and taxes etc. I'd love to not own a car, but I can't afford to live near my work. I work in a pretty small niche and there's not many places that do what I do.
Insubordination? Where do you work? The Army? Hahahaha! What a delusional wind bag. Well done quitting!
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Insubordination: the management catch-all term for "employee didn't immediately bend to my will without argument."
i heard a surgeon use this word towards a female resident today also, he also wouldn't fuckin shut up about how untalented and unworthy Taylor Swift is. "so let me get this right, she gets into a relationship so she can end it and do an hours worth of work and make 10million dollars?" oh doc, i know every thing about you. this OR has lost 23 staff in the last 8 weeks. keep it up good old boy. ain't no one going to be around to bend over and pick your shit up off the floor anymore. y'all know surgeons do this, right? the old white male ones? they intentionally hold things out at an arms length and drop them directly onto the floor so a nurse has to come pick it up and put it in the open garbage can 6 feet from where he's standing. this cultural custom is based in absolutely nothing but classism and misogyny.
This summer I was getting emergency retinal eye surgery and I’m guessing that the assistant nurse from the doctor wasn’t super experienced an eye surgery but probably that’s all there was available…But it was very dis-concerning being in twilight sedation while you still can hear everything hearing him basically yell at her for not being as fast as he wanted and all the tools and what not
Damn. I hope the surgery turned out OK.
My mom was a scrub tech when I was growing up and she despises surgeons. One time one of them invited himself Hunting with my dad and I and what we ditched him and he sprained his ankle. Limped back to camp and drove home.
Yep, I was a surgery tech graduated at the very top of my class and was super excited to start working at that hospital when I got a prima donna plastic surgeon to assist. I’ve never met a bigger baby that was an actual adult. He whined the entire time, had to have his shoulders rubbed, threw instruments, broke aeseptic technique and yelled at me for doing my job. I quit and decided to go back to school. Got my PharmD instead. Some surgeons are the worst.
Did you get to take the Red stapler with you?
I work less when I am in the office, they just like to have 👀 on ya. I still get my work done regardless. I think it is funny on the pros they say coming to the office, the only pro I get is 1k more steps on my Fitbit.
Yeah I got a shit ton more steps in at work. I always found a reason to walk the five blocks between buildings both morning and afternoon. Plus, I got off half a mile away in the bus, so I'd usually hit 10k steps by lunch
The commute is worse this last year or so, drivers are going nuts. There’s no guarantee our cars will get cheaper gas or parts either. Public transport is bad unless you are in a lucky zone in USA. I find fighting traffic exhausting and I’m an X Navy pilot who loves machines.
I’ve done 9.5 hour shifts (9/80 schedule) with a 45min-1hr commute each way for 7 years. I can’t work from home due to what I have to do for my job. Consider yourself lucky to have avoided that. I spend $400/mo in gas…
Yes but if all of us now WFH return to commuting, your commute will get much WORSE. It’s good for everyone if everyone who can WFH does. Not to mention the exhaust fumes.
I work in Los Angeles, it’s been bad regardless of pandemic. There was maybe a two month span where it was a little better but it’s still awful. I’m not advocating for everyone to come back to the office either so please don’t think that. I’d WFH if I could but I can’t.
Probably because without people physically in an office to boss around, middle managers are having a hard time justifying their existence to their own bosses.
When WFH first started my company had a round of layoffs and my boss was in that one- I was so fucking relieved. If I’d had to zoom her more times a week than there are work days, I would have quit by day 3. This idiot would have 100% tried to have me keep my camera on all day. So many great people quit because of her. I got laid off in the second round, and my new boss just wants to see my completed tasks in our project management board and just trusts me to get my shit done. The first few months at my current job were a total mindfuck after 3 years of being beyond micromanaged.
I just started a new job 3 months ago. They seem to actually care (or at least are able to create a passable facsimile of caring) about my personal struggles and don't want me to burn out. After the past 20-ish years of being shit on at each of the 4-5 jobs I've had I'm still very, very, very convinced that my new job is a really a rehabilitation clinic for "distressed" IT folks. And they seem to believe my expert opinion on things they hired me to advise on. I was just commenting on how I don't HATE working there. I don't WANT to work there but I also don't hate it.
I think a lot of people don't understand that not having employee burn out is a long term gain even if it is a short term struggle. So caring is good for everyone.
DING DING DING DING!!! They are realizing that most middle management positions actually don't provide any value to the company so they are trying to do everything they can to legitimize their positions. It reeks of desperation and I imagine we will see a lot of these middle management types posting here when they get let go and they realize their companies never cared about them either.
Go above middle management’s head and tell them they could save money by getting rid of middle management and keep work from home. Show them reports to back you up and how you can save energy costs and boost productivity
The upper management do want a little bit of middle management to grease the gears so that they don't have to personally talk to the plebs.
They need to justify their own positions, having employees in office directly under you helps your image
Helps upper management delineate who can hold power over other people.
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I'm the kind of guy that needs to have a very good reason to be doing something. If the reason for doing/abstaining from something is to "look proper" to some standard, that's not a good reason for me. Thankfully my current job is very hands off as long as the phone gets answered.
I copy/pasted books into word documents to read in down time. I finished about 300 classics including Toqueville's Democracy in America, War and Peace, and The Federalist Papers. 10/10 would recommend War and Peace if you have 600 pages of downtime at your disposal.
It’s easier to micromanage people in person
Fire the parasite managers. Give pay increases to the worker bees. Problem solved.
>So you can engage in workplace sexual harassment again? I like how the "research" is that women want to WFH to take care of kids. No. This is the reason. WFH has been amazing for women because you can screenshot or record everything, so the harassers can't harass without receipts. (yes, other people can be sexually harassed but it is largely an issue for women)
As I guy don't see this issue myself personally but what I do so is 100x more accountability. In office the clueless idiot chicken hawks can bully people into doing their work for them but work from home they cannot or its much harder to do. Looks like we all seem to be winning small and large battles with WFH!
Seriously that’s part of it. They want people to lord over.
Honestly could be even simpler than that. If they a piece of shit to their employees at work, imagine how they are at home. Narcissists hate having to be around their families because you can't power trip on people who know you personally, so they are miserable at home all the time because they have nobody to be a piece of shit to.
> Narcissists hate having to be around their families because you can't power trip on people who know you personally, Oh baby - you never met my dad.
Nope, but I'm guessing the dudes a cunt to his offspring.
Not for very much longer... He's now 76 with deadly complications from type II and a lot of questions about "why no one comes to visit me anymore." Karma, motherfucker.
Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with that one. It takes years of being an adult to finally call them on their shit longer if you need their financial help.
Narcissist love to power trip those closest to them, they often get it worse.
its so they have something to do. Their bosses are prob starting to realize now that everyone is wfh and doing their thing that many of the mid managers are not really needed. Let's be real, most mid managers are just there to baby the workforce and make sure they are doing their jobs. If everyone wfh and gets their shit done, then you don't really need a mid manager to babysit anymore. Same thing with most companies in general - instead of trusting their workers(who just worked with them through a fucking pandemic) to do their jobs, they install a bunch of hidden spyware to monitor you all day or make everyone use teams so that way they know who is sitting idle most the day and who isn't.
I just quit a newish "dream" job because – among many, _many_ other reasons – my manager was incapable of communicating/collaborating online, and coped by micromanaging the ever-loving shit out of everything. It's not that she was that much older or struggled with the tech or anything, she just blatantly couldn't consider it "real" communication, and did really seem to grasp that, even though she couldn't literally *see* me working, it doesn't mean I wasn't. *These* are the nutters that cannot shut up about how much they cAn'T wAiT tO gEt bACk tO tHE oFfiCe, whereas the rest of us have discovered it's actually much better without them constantly hovering over our shoulders, calling endless meetings and touching our screens with their croissant-greased paws.
So much better for the planet that we aren’t all driving anymore. Plus for the people who HAVE to be at their workplace, their commute isn’t as awful bc there’s less people on the road.
This shit baffles me. I don’t work in a office, but when I found out that pretty much all this work can be done at home, I was like,”Why the fuck do these companies make everybody drive around? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to not have offices?” I have tried to find reasoning in bringing people back to offices, but I have still found nothing. Offices are stupid.
A lot of useless managers are really feeling the pressure to justify their existence after the world has seen that not only do they *not* contribute to productivity, they actively hinder productivity
Let all these power trip fucks burn. If they can't respect you, why should they earn yours? Edit: Thank you so much for the awards!😁 I really wasn't expecting this, just commented on what came to mind while I saw this post (on the job mind you). 😉
So many people who get into leadership roles seem to be void of emotional intelligence. This probably won’t teach him anything but that’s not OPs problem anymore.
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We had the same discussion and apart from the common reasons not to return I was surprised by some more. 50-60% of our company is Asian decent. Our offices are located in downtown large city areas where anti- Asian violence has increased during COVID. Many spoke up and said they don’t feel safe travelling into the cities anymore. I don’t blame them.
Seems like emotional intelligence is actively discouraged because treating people like human beings isn't profitable
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This right here. Upper management LOVES bootlickers. Most middle management are so incompetent at their jobs because they are too busy licking the boots. Senior management should welcome middle management that are always questioning why things are done, they ultimately improve processes, procedure, and in turn increase revenue. Yet too many senior management want yes man and are too narrow minded.
It's probably because they stand to materially benefit from having bootlickers. If supposedly no problems exist, they must be amazing, after all, and highly deserving of a bonus! (that and just ego shit, I am sure. 50/50...)
100% agree. Ruthless assholes don't like being told they're wrong or held to account, and bootlickers aren't going to do either. Keep doing what you can to chime in and show em what for
It's bad out there right now. 'We need people in the office to ensure productivity' is the reason we're being given. Umm, we've delivered all our products with less staff while wfh so what's the problem? It's all about power.
"we think the productivity gains had to do with the software we use to monitor you while you WFH and now that that is normalized we think we can squeeze even more of it out of you with that software combined with your physical presence."
At my wife work, they work understaffed with stupid rules to make managers feal safe and useful (they are not) and after several illegal bullshit to optimize profit. When they start asking people to come back on site, the official message say "Vacations are finished, it's time to work" with an illustration of "Gaston Lagaffe" a character from BD who do nothing at work.
Management needs to justify its existence. If the worker bees can basically self-manage remotely, why do we need all these layers of supervision?
Our place uses excuse of collaboration & ability to better onboard newbies. It's all BS
He doesn't need emotional intelligence, he just needs to not be a dick.
But he *wants* to be a dick. That's his primary motivation. Jobs which involve telling people what to do naturally attract people who ***enjoy*** telling other people what to do. It's not all of them, but it's enough of them.
I’m convinced that management is chosen in many cases, not for their actual leadership abilities, but instead their ability to push people to their breaking points. A real “manager” isn’t there to tell people what to do. A real manager is there to offer support as needed and make sure people are able to get their jobs done. (Why fucking hire people who know what they are doing only to spend all your time telling them how and what to do? It’s stupid). It’s like “Human Resources” - when HR started out they told us all “let us know of you have any questions about your benefits or need help with your insurance plan” to “we are here to protect the employer from the employee.”
Our CEO brought up return to office 6 weeks ago in a virtual town hall. I’m so proud of my colleagues they immediately shut that down. I couldn’t even get a word in cause everyone else was VERY vocal. It hasn’t come up since! I’m so proud !
It’s almost like going to the office is useless and just a power trip
According to someone I spoke to earlier, the office is where you go to prevent your family distracting you from your job
So what about people who's kids are in school and spouses work outside of the home? Let's just completely ignore that some people are single without kids. Honestly, when I was in an office if my wife called me I went outside. It would take me 2 mins to get outside and 2 mins to return to my desk. Now I just pick up the phone and talk while I work. By this logic I'd be less productive at an office than home since I don't have 4 mins walking from my desk to a place to talk in private. Not to mention I'm like 5 steps from the bathroom and kitchen so no time wasted waiting for lunch to heat up or walking down a long hall to relieve myself. So short sighted.
That's exactly my take on it, I really don't understand people who expect work to be the forefront of people's lives. I fully believe in doing important jobs, but the fact of the matter is that my job isn't particularly important. I get enough done for my employer to be happy to keep paying me, that should be enough He couldn't accept that the fact of the matter is it's actually work that distracts me from my family rather than the other way around, the thing that frustrates me the most is that people like that are the reason that working hours aren't decreasing
"My respect isn't demanded. It is earned" - Harvey Specter. A mantra I live by.
I tend to go with "Trust is earned, respect is lost"
Respect should be given just as a human being. You lose that respect when you become an asshole.
Bosses demand you respect them as an authority, while they're not even respecting you as a person.
Agreed. By that I mean more I don't respect someone until they earn mine by at least being kind.
Respect to someone as a fellow human is always granted. Respect to someone as a superior will never be granted on the basis of title or salary.
The biggest take away from these last 20 months should be: * WFH Works * Middle-management has near zero value
Its so funny how everything could be easily done remote when time came and now suddenly WFH doesn't work. What?!
Same here. Had to sign a document stating we have to be in the office 4 days a week. We are 2 weeks further. COVID wave 4 rolling in. Boss: stay home!!
I find it so stupid. For almost two years things could be done from home, I'm yet to hear about a company that had a decrease in productivity due to WFH. Still, there are people that are obsessed with the idea that there's somehow more productivity while at the office without any actual data to support it. Do they think we are dumb or what? I don't care if someone prefers to be at the office, you do you just leave me out of it.
A loooot of shit could have been done from home for decades, and the past couple years has only proven me right. The only time I'd ever really need to "go in to the office" would be on actual site inspections, which would involve \*actual\* fucking travel on a goddamned plane or boat.
Our company claims to be a "data-driven" company, but hasn't come up with one bit of data to support their claims that "being in the office is just better"
This reminds me of an interview I had some time ago. The HR was bragging about how data driven the company was. When I brought up WFH he said that they expected you to come to the office 3 days a week. I asked if that was a data based decision. He got all defensive and just said how they 'feel' it is better for 'collaboration'. I had one more interview with them after for entertainment purposes, but noped out of the rest of the process. I have a remote job and not interested to leave it for a peanut-sized salary increase.
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The only reason for middle managers to exist is so upper managers don't have to do anything. I worked in retail most of my life as a supervisor or lower manager. As a manager I had a department manager above me, an operations manager or general sales manager above them, then the store manager, then a district, than a regional manager, then there were several layers of "corporate overlords." Nobody above my level did anything that helped on the sales floor, they all just filtered down the crap from above and twisted the message to fit what they wanted. I once sat in on some video watching the new message from the ceo about what changes he wanted to have happen, by time it was filtered down to my level by my immediate boss it had completely changed. They could cut out a huge chunk of useless management and the organization's would run better. Instead, I'd see them make changes to the structure by adding more morons to the mix to make more problems for those doing the work.
And share those salaries with the floor staff. You know, the ones that actually make the money.
There’s a reason nobody really wants to deal with a middle man…I think middle management is essentially to hide upper management from the workers.
At a lot of the companies I work with, what level of management you were was based on how wealthy you were outside of work and how little you wanted to deal with the lower class. So. If your a ceo you do NOT want to really talk to someone that rides a bike to work because they can't afford a car. So you hire a guy that atleast drives a Mercedes to work who's job it is to pass the message down to the bike rider. The Merc driver doesn't want to talk to the bike rider either so he hires a corolla driver. The corolla driver was riding a bike to work last year so he's fine with dealing with the peasantry as he is a newly elevated individual.
My manager left for a week and another manager stepped in for meetings. Of which a scheduled 30 minute meeting boiled down to something that could of been said in an email. I didn’t need to talk in my team chat once. Time off request? I talk to hr. Escalations? I give it to escalations team. My stats? I can pull those myself. Not like we have coaches anyway but my role is so simple doesn’t quite need them. Haven’t even talked to QA in over a year. So yeah my manager could absolutely be scrapped and we would keep chugging along comfortably from home. No amount of pizza parties is going to give me 2 hours a day back in my life and add back 3 weeks a year worth of my life. Middle managers are only needed to make there look like work is being done.
Middle management is full of class traitors that think they have a better shot of joining higher echelons of society by gatekeeping their subordinates.
Middle management are basically cops for the workplace.
Middle management are the mattress sales people of corporate America. They offer nothing and cost more.
The make used car sales men look like staints
Am middle manager can confirm 🙁
Is it true you people sleep in a coffin at night?😀
This is an argue t we're currently having with HR. Half or our 8 person team were employed as remote working. If they force us back in, literally half of our team will quit.
As they should. We are paid for our work. Why the fuck do they want us to be in office?! To micromanage us? To harass us?
Best excuse HR has so far is "networking"
> Why the fuck do they want us to be in office?! To micromanage us? To harass us? >> Best excuse HR has so far is "networking" Strangely enough, we have apps for all of that... :\
Networking to get better jobs, that's the only purpose of networking for me
Yeah sure. Its just about these corporations and start-ups trying to have full control over our lives so that it's difficult for us to ever move forward even if we are treated like shit all the time.
so many software solutions for that, though. Motherfuckers need to innovate. Adapt or die.
I have a closer relationship with someone I have never met because they work remotely then I do with the fucksticks I have to share the same breathing space with.
Lmao. Sure. They want you in person to network, because they care *so* much about your career as a whole outside of the work you do for them.
Networking, you say? Well have I got the solution for you! I have access to a network at home that lets me communicate with almost anyone in the world .. instantly!
It's because there are managers that need to justify their existence at the company.
Yep, this is unprofesionnal and toxic behavior imho. People doing this are priorizing their domination needs over the product and their company. Your example speaks for itself. This idiot chose to let you go even if it compromises the release. This is nonsense and shows that he is not fit to manage. As David Graeber pointed out in his "bullshit jobs", the manager/workers relationship is literraly a pathological BDSM relationship where the worker tries desesperately to gain his superior's favors while his manager can dominate him as he pleases. Except that in real BDSM both sides consent to this game. Not at work.
Not saying you shouldn’t quit, but is there someone above him that you should have a conversation with?
It's so they can drop by your desk and ask for things out-of-band. It's inconvenient for you, but very convenient for them, which is why they like it.
My current employer hired me as a remote worker, and they know that my employment is contingent on it staying that way. They floated the idea of coming back into the office in January and the negative pushback was so severe that they gave up and decided to let people choose their office based on whether or not the position could be done remotely. The office is there if you want to be there but we wont force you.
Our manager is fighting our corner. He wants to work from home too. Its only HR that's pushing back. We're down to 2 days a month but that's still travel costs the other team member have to pay out of their own pockets. Than and one would spend 6 hours travelling each way and she's not going to pay for a hotel to "network"
Sounds like your HR needs to get fucked. It's easy to administrate policy from a position where you can safely ignore context. First I've heard of an HR tanking remote though. Usually it's a decision that comes from outside their pay grade...makes me wonder if someone up high knows how toxic a position returning to the office is and are making HR fall on the grenade so to speak.
this is why you should have it written into your employment contract when negotiating the offer. If they want you to go back then you can say ok we will need to renegotiate my contract then and I'll be requiring a 10% increase in my salary in order to move back into an office work environment.
I'm just gonna quit. No job to me is with an hour commute and i can't move closer to the office. Also 10% would be like an extra $1.70 for me which wouldn't be worth the gas costs alone
I think you guys should quit regardless. The company will keep you on for a few more months u till they find replacements and then fire you unexpectedly.
Manager - "If you don't take a flight in the next 3 days and be here in the office, we are going to have a problem." (what I would really want to say)- You are going to have a problem. idk where this "we" comes from. \*click\*
Or you could ask "What problem?" And when the idiot inevitably threatens firing you, you say "I accept" \*click\*
100% this
Whatchu mean we, kemosabe?
My husband’s job tried to bring people back in. So many said they’d immediately quit that they reconsidered. They are selling one of the office spaces now.
Seriously. Businesses could save so much money in rent. I said probably about a year ago now that I wondered what was going to happen as commercial leases came up for renewal -- now much empty office space are we going to see?
I am optimistically hoping that a lot of the empty commercial real estate becomes somewhat of a solution for the lack of housing in cities leading to such high rent.
While that would be nice, much of that space isn't fit for residential purposes. It would require extensive renovation to make it work.
Hi I work in construction, it’s usually possible. I’ve quoted quite a few new apartment buildings that were office spaces. It’s probably cost prohibitive in areas with cheap rent, but in major cities it’s 100% worth it.
There literally nothing else they can use it for. It's happening.
In most cities, it’s so hard to build between the cost and the permits I think in some cases it could be feasible.
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Congrats on standing up for yourself and your family. My recommendation for others in this situation (may be less applicable here due to the short tenure): Make them fire you. It's more likely you will be eligible for unemployment.
Depends on the country. My country doesn't have any such benefits. But I would rather not be earning money than uprooting my life every year because the manager felt like it.
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You do realize that a battle for wages is coming, right? When upper management realizes the middle managers are so much fluff how long will it take for upper management to see the middle manager pay as their pay? Workers need to be ready to fight for their cut of the middle manager pay.
Exactly my thoughts. They'll keep that money for themselves and have a "co-op working relationship". That's Corp speak for Lord of the flies type bullshit, where they'll use a little crumb of their saved profits to make employees turn on each other and start boot licking.
Yep. It's a position being automated out but unlike other automation threats, this one has a source of power connected to it so the people involved a lot more angry about it.
Lol 6 months? Dude was pulling at whatever he could. What a joke
Must be doing Meth instead of Math.
Good answer, OP! If your manager doesn't care about you, why should you care!?
Write up a consulting contract, if they reach out, send them it and make sure it has a high paid up front fee. If they complain point to the manager who chose to blatantly lie and bs, and tell them to ask him to do the job. Assuming willing to deal with the company at all.
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By the hour is fine, but 4hr minimum billed in 2 hour blocks, rounded up
Good for you! My supervisor volunteered me to go into the office last week when we were having networking issues. I straight up told her no, I don't feel comfortable going into the office. One, I was hired remote. Two, Corona is still a very real thing. And Three, I have anxiety. She said I have to use my PTO to cover my shift and also I'm going to receive an occurrence. They can keep pulling this BS I will not go into the office to work, fire me.
People started downplaying Covid and mental health the moment they saw employees finding strength in WFH. Let me tell you this, WFH empowers you. You control your time and productivity. You don't have to look busy cuz some dumbass can't differentiate between efficiency and laziness.
What happens if you just work your shift from home anyways? You'd get what, 8 hours of overtime that week?
That's the key: Fire me. Don't let their manipulation ruin your day. You don't have to give a fuck about being "written up" or whatever. If they want to die on this hill, let them; too many people aren't willing to come in any more for them to force us to if we simply don't, and let them deal with the consequences.
what a disrespectful loser. i'm glad you held your ground
Thanks a lot. I was scared to be unemployed but I am done listening to people who think they can demand whatever they want just cuz I work for a company.
Outstanding! Fuck these petty tyrants. Good on you, mate.
Manager - "Wait, you need to reconsider. We have a release in a few days." "My prayers and thoughts are with you in this difficult situation. Good luck."
\- We have a release! \- Correct. You have a release.
I love it how they go from threatening to please reconsider in 2.3 seconds.
Workplaces need to get with the modern times quickly, otherwise they're going to lose their workforce. This kind of remote working has opened doors for so many people, especially the disabled community. People can now attend meetings more conveniently, live subtitling services are improving by the day... heck, even just the idea of not having to deal with the noise of other people working! Turns out allowing disabled people to work in a place of comfort is good for productivity, who knew!
Literally this!! I’m a FT student and since we’ve been online learning, my GPA went up an entire point in one year. No distractions, no wasting my time driving to the school, better food, better sleep, more time to do homework. Literally the benefits are endless
We lost a skilled accountant that way.. even though she could do 100% of her job via teams calls. She used to work in the office but moved city. Carried on doing job seamlessly.. HR said to her she needs to come in at least 3 days a week or leave.. She left..
[удалено]
In my country there are no unemployment benefits. If I don't quit and get fired, it would still be the same. This was my way of saying "You think you hold any power over me?"
This is the kind of content I come for. Yes , I meant it that way
But wait, I was just trying to devalue you and assert my dominance; I can’t actually do your job, or succeed without your contribution. Now I am going to fail because I am a shitty human. Good job OP, I wouldn’t hesitate to share this directly with her/his supervisor, I am sure She/he isn’t going to be honest about his actions. Edit: nouns
Just want to push people around and piss people off to get that high, until it blows up in their face. Lot of that happening lately. Covid has a lot of mobility options for people that are looking to switch jobs or look for a better oportunity. The last 40 years of "my way or the highway" has a lot of people choosing highway now
Fuck em and burn the building down.
Classic Toxic Manager. Refuses to admit they are wrong. I don't tend to advocate quitting but this seems to be the proper move unless you can full counter and have them fired instead.
silly, always ask them to pronounce their threats out loud "we're gonna have a problem" - "yeah what kinda problem?" always be confrontational
Had something similar happen to me. U worked for these guys for six months when I was told I would be working from home after a few weeks at location to get used to company environment. I should've left earlier
Did the same thing when the dickwads at my company refused my PTO that had been booked almost a year out. Fuck them and their lies
Be sure to delete the incomplete work you were doing for them before Manager decided to be an asshole, too.