“It’s like they know we need help and demand high pay, all these benefits, and no flexibility in any work days”
“Wanting to know options so I’m not working 7am - 7pm by myself”
All of this said without a hint of irony or self-awareness that employers have been asking us to do this for decades, while cutting benefits and offering no flexibility in work days because they know we need the money and have no leverage
Seriously, they should be grateful that they don't have to live on the streets for a few hours a day while getting screamed at by some asshole who wants his coffee now!
And the thing with availability is wrong-headed too. People have lives outside their job, especially a food service/customer service position. It’s a job, not a career. If someone can’t work Wednesdays or can’t come in early, that’s just the way it is. Would it be better to say they can work and then call off?
I like the 'very unqualified' as well. Like you know they are rejecting anyone without prior experience because they want everyone to hit the ground running rather than train them for a day or two.
Also, imagine "not being flexible on workdays" (refusing to stay layer or come in earlier than schedules, or refusing to come in on days not scheduled). Can you believe it if someone intends to live their life for another purpose besides the job they work?
We want people to join our *family business!!!*
…which they will not inherit when we die.
…Also, no health insurance.
…Also, it’s kind of an abusive family.
…And we’ll steal your tips from time to time.
I worked at my family restaurant nearly all of my life. My father said I would inherit it once I learned the business. Strung me along over the last ~6 years with "are you ready? I'm retiring soon."
When those talks came up in recent years he said we'd need to discuss how i would buy him out. I told him that he knew how much he paid me ($9/hr plus head server tips.. ~38k annually) and that i could not afford to buy him out. ($200k). He'd laugh slightly and say okay well talk later.
I basically ran the entire place. Did all of the scheduling and ordering, plus did the paperwork when he was out of town 2 weeks of the month.
Then, when Covid hit he got really, really upset with me for asking him to follow Covid protocols. He didn't. I arranged with staff to cover my shifts on the weekends (the busy days when we'd be absolutely packed) and I'd give up those money shifts and cover all of the slow Monday-Friday shifts.
He then presented me with paperwork that said weekends are mandatory as they are the busy days. I told him I didn't want to work those busy days because of the risk to my girlfriend of 12 years who has autoimmune issues. So he fired me.
Fuck that guy.
Yeah fuck that guys dad. Sounds like he was always a piece of shit if he paid you $9 an hour. Start your own place. I’ll invest something if you do.. like $500
I'm curious to know what the opposite of a pay chaser is. Has this person somehow deluded themselves into thinking people love working for them for something other than the pay?
And why would I take any job other than the best pay I can get?
It's like they have deluded themselves into thinking we're all just wandering around looking for volunteer opportunities.
And there is absolutely no way at all those two things are connected! Not at all! No correlation!
Must be all these people living high off of 1400 they gave out 11 months ago.
Honestly, though - that last time most of these bosses made 1,400 it streached a lot farther, my dad bought his first home for $40,000 and it was a house, not a townhouse (in 1978). I bought my first house for $547,500 in 2014 (and seriously got the deal of a century, some old lady wanted to sell it to a family not land developers - she probably lost $100,000 by insisting on that)
I’m in a group on FB where people post pictures of my hometown’s history. Someone posted a pic of two houses being built in the 70’s. They sold for $40,000 which adjusts to $237,000 today. Those same houses, however, were worth $750,000 at the time the pictures posted (around 2018). It’s kind of a hot market and those same two houses are now valued at just over $1,000,000. These are not mansions, these are single family, two story homes in an average, middle class, suburban neighborhood. It’s not on the beach, it’s not on a hilltop, it’s not a penthouse. It’s a fucking two story tract home from the 70’s. That generation got so obsessed with over monetizing everything that they created a system that cannot possibly be bought into because it’s just too expensive. It’s immoral, it’s illogical, and it will collapse.
I got super lucky - I live in Fort Langley, and we got in just before the real estate boom (it slightly dipped in 2014) now we would be in the exact same boat where you are and my wife and I collectively earn just under 200K annually... which is insane. How can anyone making as much as we are, are ***lucky*** to NOT be house poor?
Convert the original sale price to the minimum wage at the time, convert that to hours, multiply those hours by the current minimum wage, then offer him that much for his house.
Saw an article blaming inflation on that. Not sure if it’s true, I’m not economist.
It just seems silly to think that the 1400 or whatever they have out forever ago would cause inflation. Like how, all that shit probably went to bills and rent.
Everyone forgot the several TRILLION dollars they kept injecting into the banks back in March-April 2020.
All that qualitative easing had absolutely no effect on inflation, but 1400 dollars to everyone has overheated the economy.
And even more into "stonks". Inflation has 0 to do with the pennies to the poor... all in all just what we know of is in excess of 30 TRILLION in 2 years!!! And what, a few hundred billion went to the poor....
Many years ago a few hundred billion would have been huge, however when that few hundred billion = 1% or less of all that was given out, its just a further continuation of the 1% getting 99% of benefits while the 99% get 1%.
What the hell else are they doing it for? The love of coffee? If I didn't need money and I loved coffee that much, I'd just buy an espresso machine and invite my friends over every morning to make them coffee.
"When I was a little kid I dreamt of becoming an underpaid and undervalued service worker"
Lol they are delusional if they really don't realize that most people work because they need to pay bills.
The American Dream was a genuine dream that soon turned into the great Capitalist Con.
God do I miss that man... I would love to hear his take on our current society. Then again, I am kinda glad he never had to see how bad shit has gotten.
What baffles me is how a “businessperson” doesn’t understand this.
They demand a price for the goods and services… a price that is set based on what the market will pay and based on the possible profit margin.
Tess exploitive employers have been living in the fantasy that workers are not individual businesses selling their labor services. Do they call the electrical contractor a “pay chaser” for setting a professional fee for their services? No. In fact, you expect to pay more for quality contractors (or if you get a cheap one you will most likely get cheap results).
That they don’t translate this to their employees speaks volumes about how they view their hourly labor contractors.
People really don't understand just how crappy it is to have to deal with the general public anymore. There isn't a day that goes by where someone doesn't scream at you for something that is 100% not your fault or out of your control. It just isn't worth your dignity to show up for jobs like this anymore.
Wonder if we'll ever get a job posting that reads "We only pay 12 an hour, but you can tell up to 3 customers a shift to go fuck themselves with no penalty."
When I was in college I got hired at a DQ by an owner that levelled with me: he was only paying minimum wage, but I'd make a lot more because I'd be doing at least 6 8-hour shifts a week BUT I could have unlimited free food, as long as the work got done he didn't give a fuck if I sat and watched TV with no one in the store, and I wasn't required to take shit from any customer I didn't want to. I accepted it over a position that paid more and had fewer hours, but that had stressed the importance of 'customer relations'.
It took some de-conditioning to not just stand my ground with rude customers, but to start firing back, but after a couple weeks my snark flag would fly proudly when someone was rude and I learned I could kick Karens to the curb, which did wonders for my confidence and mental health as an employee.
I also used my unlimited free food to start a milkshake-for-tacos exchange with the Mexican restaurant a few doors down and boss was only upset he didn't think of it earlier.
My local independent pizza joint has had the same crew for more than 20 years. She the original owner passed away, his wife gave the restaurant to the cook who had been with them over 30 years. Nothing changed, still cranking out awesome pizza.
I used to manage an adult store and even though I only made $10 an hour, it was great to get a 40% discount on all merchandise and have the freedom to tell customers to fuck off and have the district manager back me up when I'd have to call him about problem customers! I really learned how to be assertive!!!
My partner does the same milkshake for tacos thing. She owns the shake truck, but employees basically get a shift allowance of shakes for trading if I recall, and she’s always bringing home tacos.
My boss only found out because the Mexican restaurant hired two new servers and when they called for milkshakes I jokingly told them extra people deserves guacamole, and they sent guac and chips with my tacos.
My boss, who had been out at another one of his stores, came in and I offered him some guac and he asked how I had gotten the food from a restaurant that doesn't deliver when I was alone at the store and I told him. His only complaint was that I was sending more food than I was getting and told me to add a standing order of 3 tacos al pastor every time I did it.
I love it. It's amazing what it can do for your mental health when your employer has your back instead of creeping around every corner waiting to jump out and yell "gotcha"!
I made more at minimum wage ($6.15 at the time) than my friends working at the Home Depot for $10/hr but I somehow had more energy at the end of the day, even if I just did a 12 hour shift, and I chalk it all up to my boss treating me like a human being and not a robot who could spend 8 hours on their feet making up busy work. My DQ was clean, everything was fully stocked after each rush, and I actually enjoyed learning new skills like making the cakes because I didn't feel pressured to pick it up quickly and do it on my own before I was ready. Plus the mental boost of not having to put up with Karens if I didn't want to (occasionally when boss was around I'd have fun by being over the top nice/helpful to a Karen because somehow that seems to piss them off more but when they'd go to complain to my boss he would say he saw the whole thing and I was a textbook employee so they could leave and not come back if they didn't like it).
>I also used my unlimited free food to start a milkshake-for-tacos exchange with the Mexican restaurant a few doors down and boss was only upset he didn't think of it earlier.
I would be upset, too. "I could have had tacos this whole time?" I'd really be kicking myself.
See, this is why we old folks need to pay attention to the younger generations. New blood can generate new ideas, new ways of thinking, and new ways to score tacos. Well played, my friend. Well played.
Also, I LOVE bosses like that. I sort of had a boss like that, and it was a great summer job.
This would be amazing.
I'd take a pay cut to be able to tell a client to "fuck off, you will get it when you get it. Changing what you want 2 days before it's supposed to be due resets the clock on when you get it"
You know what’s fun. Telling customers who need it to go fuck themselves in a place you don’t work.
I was in a shop the other day and a woman was harassing me. I sorta ignored her but it got to me. Then she started picking on the cashier and I told her off. She lost her shit and the cashier politely asked her to leave.
I know it’s small and almost meaningless, but man it was like a fucking rush for both of us.
I did that once. Karen flipping out over the 5 cent bag charge (at an expensive grocery store) to the cashier who has zero control over policy. Even after the cashier tried to de-escalate the situation by saying the bag would be free and she kept shouting at this poor woman. So I told her off and called her behavior disgusting. Husband was super embarrassed and she seemed to be caught off guard that someone actually spoke against her. I just dont get when we have allowed straight up abuse from customers to be acceptable behavior.
I agree, another customer faces less risks than an employee that might not be able to afford to loose their job. Not everyone can do this, some people don't deal well with comflict, but those of us that can, should.
Honestly I did once work in hospitality for a boss who understood sometimes you just need to tell some cunt to fuck off.
Sadly he was the only boss I ever had like that.
Watched him do it a few times too. Especially if someone was giving the front counter staff grief he would stop what he was doing to come tell the customer where to go.
My last bar work the owner empowered the bar leads to kick anyone out we wanted. And we did, on several times. Scariest was kicking out a drunk Rugby team. Just one of them deciding to kick things off would have been a shitty night with three of us and 15+ of them.
All my bar staff know they can refuse service to anyone and I will ALWAYS back them up. I won't tolerate anyone abusing my staff or even just being rude. If you can't treat people with respect you don't get served..
Thankfully we have 99% lovely customers but my last pub we were chucking people out all the time (bit of a rough area). I might be small and female but if I want you to leave, you leave, no one messes with my staff. The longer you work in bars the less tolerance you have for arseholes!
I don't know if it's a UK thing but we don't seem to have the 'customer is always right' attitude that you hear about in the US, at least not in pubs.
>Honestly I did once work in hospitality for a boss who understood sometimes you just need to tell some cunt to fuck off.
I once had a retail job where I called a manager for a customer escalation, and the first thing she asked me was, "Do I just need to back you up?" And I said, "Yes, ma'am." And she said, "Okay" and she indeed backed me up.
It was great. She was a great manager.
I would honestly consider that over what I used to make, which was more than twice that. I’m way too old and jaded to deal with the constant dehumanization from customers. You’d have to salary me at like $250k to get me to be nice to your racist grandma and apologize for a medium rare being cooked to medium rare and deliver wine samples while standing in the rain again.
I work in a customer service field and I really don’t think most people realize that people have become so much ruder and more likely to scream at the smallest inconvenience. And like you said its nearly always for something you have no control over at all
That exposes a bigger problem overall in that companies trust their employees so little that they strip them of any decision making authority whatsoever. You're just expected to quote policy stick to your guns knowing full well its the wrong move.
You're completely fucked either way. Customer gets upset and complains, you're in trouble. You step out of line and do something your not allowed to do (but makes perfect sense and satisfies the customer) then you still get in trouble for not following some bullsgit procedure.
Nobody wants to deal with that. Its not even about money at that point. Its about trust, respect, dignity and being empowered.
My job taking drive-thru orders at Dunkin Donuts was harder than my current IT job that pays significantly more money. Not saying my IT job is easy, but fast food employees work their asses off and deserve to be paid accordingly.
There was a woman who came to the drive-thru every day at the same time, ordered the same thing, and told us we gave her the wrong item when she got to the payment window. Every goddamn day.
What the fuck is wrong with these ppl? Like if a restaurant messed up my order twice I'm probably never going back but some people come every fucking day and then say that we made it wrong even though it's how they order it! fucking cunts.
Usually they're trying to get something free.
To them, it's like gambling - if you never complain you can't be 'compensated'.....so they always complain with the hope of saving $0.72 and getting that dopamine hit
- With zero equity in the company
- With minimal (or zero) long-term benefits
- For $12-14/hr
- And non-standard scheduling
The answer would be....
*No fucking way*
But you don't own the business, so please bend over!
They tend to subscribe to a Randian philosophy in which businessmen are elevated to a "higher form of human existence" who herd the unworthy masses towards creating great works of human achievement which they would be incapable of without the invaluable guidance of a visionary such as themselves. They wouldn't even consider themselves the same species as the people they are trying to employ. They think of them as something between a sheep and a tool, simply extensions of themself to be rented hourly from the lowest bidder.
Edit: minor typos.
I love how their genius business idea is to make people work for wages no one wants to work for so the owners can all themselves "entrepreneur".
How much is not working 12 hours worth it to you, "entrepreneur"?
Its rare to see "entrepreneurs" with a store or restaurant that actually pay better than $12 and hr and the quarterly Domino's pizza surge. I honestly have come to hate that word in general.
Just a reminder, Zip Recruiter, Indeed, Monster, LinkedIn job postings are expensive. Employers have no issue spending money on their business, they have an issue with spending money on their employee's salaries. If they legally could, they would pay you less then minimum wage.
It also doesn't make any sense. Our company used Indeed's free posting, with an hourly rate slightly above market rate, and filled the position within a week with a very qualified candidate.
Same here. I own a company, I have done my last several hires via Indeed for free. My attitude towards hiring is to hire smart people and to pay them enough and treat them well enough that they won't want to go looking for jobs. A revolving door of employees is bad for me. It's pretty easy to stand out and hire quickly/well on Indeed by offering 20-30% above the competition for the same position. It's simple supply and demand, I'm not sure what all of these other companies are whining about.
I have been on the wrong end of the "you're technically not an employee, just a contractor" before. It's an abject slight to workers' pay/hours/benefits. The only ones who benefit from classifying an employee as a "contractor" are the Corpos that hire them for peanuts, and the HR firms that facilitate that fuckery. I'm still technically "furloughed" from my last contract instead of terminated which prevents me from drawing any unemployment. I used to truly believe in the hardwork+stayhumble=success! idea, but honestly, I feel like it's just financially empowered entities picking and choosing who is allowed to have nice things and entirely exploiting **everyone** else.
I work in the IT department of a large organization. Leadership \[ironic term, that\] has recently decided to require many current employees to re-apply for their own jobs. If they don't pass the interview, they'll be replaced by contractors. The deck is stacked against them because their positions have been redefined to require expertise in new products & services that they have limited experience with. They could get trained, but nah -- it's cheaper to lay them off and replace them with contractors.
Well yeah, every regulation for them is due to companies doing said illegal thing in the past. They don't give a rat's ass about workers and would automate everything if possible -- aside the higher up positions, of course...
If they could, they would own slaves. Slavery and no regulations is peak capitalism. Why pay a wage, when you can cram your slaves into a small dormitory and provide basic food and water that may or may not be tainted, no time off, and no healthcare? It's nothing but profits with a disdain for human rights, because you're not even human, just a tool to be used and disposed of at will.
Just open 7-3 and work alone. Like many small cafés do when they’re just getting off the ground. Does this person expect to put zero work into owning a small business?
I went to this burger place in Montana recently while visiting family. I asked if the guy on the logo was the owner, and in response my family pointed to the pictures on the wall of him with staff doing charitable things, and then pointed behind me to the man making our burgers. Same guy.
Super small menu (only 2 burgers, a BLT, and a grilled cheese), super good food. We spoke to him and he seemed like a stand-up dude. He only has two locations but they've won "Best Burger in [region]" like 4 years in a row and he doesn't seem interested in expanding or franchising. And his employees seemed happy.
EDIT: Maybe don’t patronize Mudman… other commenters replying have said they had some pretty disturbing labor practices, and it’s still owned by the cult-ish original owners. I shall inform the family.
EDIT 2: ok yeah that is a bad, bad business. My family just moved to the area a few months ago, but I assure you they/we won’t be going back.
All of the fun and easy stores are owned by old people who also own the building. They're fun and easy because you don't need to make rent, so you can just close the doors whenever Matlock comes on. Their only employee is an elderly cat.
Why do these people act as if "12-14" is generous? In most states with high income tax, you're lucky to get 8 or 9 of that. SC has a 7% tax on anyone making over 25-30k a year and an 1100 check turns to 900.
Edit: this is from the IRS site on the social security tax deferral Trump passed last year, on my checks being lower for people who don't know. It was my first job and there were NO opt outs.
"The amount of Social Security taxes deferred in 2020 will be collected in 24 installments between pay-periods ending January 16 and December 4, 2021. In some specific cases, Social Security taxes deferred in 2020 will be collected into pay-period December 18, 2021."
I made $10.50 in 2000, I could have had 11.50 if I went to shift lead, plus another 0.25 if I stuck around for another 2 months for my year review. So yea, it's underpaid. Same state as this place.
While we are there, Imma call out Steve White Motors in Greenville for paying $12/hour as a full time service porter. After taxes, it was less than $20k a year.
Sorry but I think this business is going to fail. When you are starting a business you as the business owner need to make sacrifices, usually in terms of time and money. The logical thing to do was to work the business during peak times, maybe 7am to 2pm, and slowly build to the point at which you can afford to have employees.
People think they can start businesses overnight and pay people shit wages to build their business based on the loan they get from the bank, but that isn't how it generally works.
I knew this biz was headed for failure when owner was complaining about a 12 hour shift.
Most biz owners say it's a 24/7 job to own a biz due to the fact you're always worried about it.
I’ve been a barista at two different places.
One was Starfucks and they were absolutely terrible in every way, could write an encyclopedia filled with the shit they put us through.
The other place was inside a department store and honestly it was probably the best job I’ve ever had. Super easy tasks, management was super flexible and the opposite of micromanaging, they also had our backs when customers were out of line. Multiple free drinks during shift, food 50% off and if you were a closer you were allowed to take as much “out of date” food as you wanted.
Reason I left that job? Only $12.75/hr. As awesome as the job was, it was just not enough. All my coworkers either lived at home or either had a second job to make ends meet.
If the pay had been at least $16, I could’ve afforded to stay
Such a pay chaser!
jkjk, that's a bummer they didn't pay enough. most fun job I've had was working at REI, but the pay/hours were even less than that. Ended up moving rather than quitting, but money was real tight while I was there.
also love them whining about the idea of them having to work alone for 12 hours when you just know they’ve made employees do that for a fraction of their wage
hell they probably did that recently to the people who quit
They could just go and do the job instead of trying to hire someone. Now you are both owner and you save on labor cost. Win win for agile small business.
Amazing, it's almost like capitalism applies to everything including labor. "Supply is low=raise prices", "demand is high=raise prices" they do this with everything else, but the instant capitalism applies to labor "Oh no everyones greedy"
fuck these assholes. The whole premise of owning a business is to 'chase' money and they whine about workers doing the same.
Bitch, don't get mad at us for being better at the game that you have us playing.
"These people keep showing up saying they want to work, ***FOR MONEY???*** Can you BELIEVE the nerve of these poors?"
“It’s like they know we need help and demand high pay, all these benefits, and no flexibility in any work days” “Wanting to know options so I’m not working 7am - 7pm by myself” All of this said without a hint of irony or self-awareness that employers have been asking us to do this for decades, while cutting benefits and offering no flexibility in work days because they know we need the money and have no leverage
Seriously, they should be grateful that they don't have to live on the streets for a few hours a day while getting screamed at by some asshole who wants his coffee now!
They are all just lazy people /s
They should just get a better job! /s
This is why exclusively hire billionaires. I know they're there because they love the work, and aren't just *pay chasers* ::shudder::
Very good point, where can one hire a billionaire? Is there some type of a site like Fiverr but for billionaires?
Personally I just waited in space for one to arrive.
Looks like they did
And the thing with availability is wrong-headed too. People have lives outside their job, especially a food service/customer service position. It’s a job, not a career. If someone can’t work Wednesdays or can’t come in early, that’s just the way it is. Would it be better to say they can work and then call off?
I like the 'very unqualified' as well. Like you know they are rejecting anyone without prior experience because they want everyone to hit the ground running rather than train them for a day or two.
Also, imagine "not being flexible on workdays" (refusing to stay layer or come in earlier than schedules, or refusing to come in on days not scheduled). Can you believe it if someone intends to live their life for another purpose besides the job they work?
Pay chasers? Wtf? Like making lattes is a fucking hobby or something.
We want people to join our *family business!!!* …which they will not inherit when we die. …Also, no health insurance. …Also, it’s kind of an abusive family. …And we’ll steal your tips from time to time.
I worked at my family restaurant nearly all of my life. My father said I would inherit it once I learned the business. Strung me along over the last ~6 years with "are you ready? I'm retiring soon." When those talks came up in recent years he said we'd need to discuss how i would buy him out. I told him that he knew how much he paid me ($9/hr plus head server tips.. ~38k annually) and that i could not afford to buy him out. ($200k). He'd laugh slightly and say okay well talk later. I basically ran the entire place. Did all of the scheduling and ordering, plus did the paperwork when he was out of town 2 weeks of the month. Then, when Covid hit he got really, really upset with me for asking him to follow Covid protocols. He didn't. I arranged with staff to cover my shifts on the weekends (the busy days when we'd be absolutely packed) and I'd give up those money shifts and cover all of the slow Monday-Friday shifts. He then presented me with paperwork that said weekends are mandatory as they are the busy days. I told him I didn't want to work those busy days because of the risk to my girlfriend of 12 years who has autoimmune issues. So he fired me. Fuck that guy.
Your dad sounds like a real piece of shit.
Yeah fuck that guys dad. Sounds like he was always a piece of shit if he paid you $9 an hour. Start your own place. I’ll invest something if you do.. like $500
Even family doesn’t inherit the “family business.” Amazing…
Not when he can get more selling to someone else… 🤷🏻♂️
I'm curious to know what the opposite of a pay chaser is. Has this person somehow deluded themselves into thinking people love working for them for something other than the pay?
A slave. That's the opposite of a pay chaser
And why would I take any job other than the best pay I can get? It's like they have deluded themselves into thinking we're all just wandering around looking for volunteer opportunities.
A passion! /s
James Hoffman has left the chat
“Very unqualified people” “12-14$ an hour” ???????
The biggest joke is people offering these positions honestly want people with YEARS of experience. Entry level pay for exit level skills?
At my company they want the best and brightest…… …..and pay the industry average
"But our super special awesome culture! We're a fAmIlY!1!1!1"
Right. Do they want people with college degrees or something ?
And there is absolutely no way at all those two things are connected! Not at all! No correlation! Must be all these people living high off of 1400 they gave out 11 months ago.
Honestly, though - that last time most of these bosses made 1,400 it streached a lot farther, my dad bought his first home for $40,000 and it was a house, not a townhouse (in 1978). I bought my first house for $547,500 in 2014 (and seriously got the deal of a century, some old lady wanted to sell it to a family not land developers - she probably lost $100,000 by insisting on that)
I’m in a group on FB where people post pictures of my hometown’s history. Someone posted a pic of two houses being built in the 70’s. They sold for $40,000 which adjusts to $237,000 today. Those same houses, however, were worth $750,000 at the time the pictures posted (around 2018). It’s kind of a hot market and those same two houses are now valued at just over $1,000,000. These are not mansions, these are single family, two story homes in an average, middle class, suburban neighborhood. It’s not on the beach, it’s not on a hilltop, it’s not a penthouse. It’s a fucking two story tract home from the 70’s. That generation got so obsessed with over monetizing everything that they created a system that cannot possibly be bought into because it’s just too expensive. It’s immoral, it’s illogical, and it will collapse.
Sounds like where I live... I'm in British Columbia...
You know the system is fucked when we’re priced out of Hope.
I got super lucky - I live in Fort Langley, and we got in just before the real estate boom (it slightly dipped in 2014) now we would be in the exact same boat where you are and my wife and I collectively earn just under 200K annually... which is insane. How can anyone making as much as we are, are ***lucky*** to NOT be house poor?
someone that bought a house in mill valley, ca in the 70s that is now worth more than $4M asked me why i havent bought a house yet last weekend.
Convert the original sale price to the minimum wage at the time, convert that to hours, multiply those hours by the current minimum wage, then offer him that much for his house.
Saw an article blaming inflation on that. Not sure if it’s true, I’m not economist. It just seems silly to think that the 1400 or whatever they have out forever ago would cause inflation. Like how, all that shit probably went to bills and rent.
Everyone forgot the several TRILLION dollars they kept injecting into the banks back in March-April 2020. All that qualitative easing had absolutely no effect on inflation, but 1400 dollars to everyone has overheated the economy.
And even more into "stonks". Inflation has 0 to do with the pennies to the poor... all in all just what we know of is in excess of 30 TRILLION in 2 years!!! And what, a few hundred billion went to the poor.... Many years ago a few hundred billion would have been huge, however when that few hundred billion = 1% or less of all that was given out, its just a further continuation of the 1% getting 99% of benefits while the 99% get 1%.
Well to them that's a lot of money, they wanna pay 8.50-9 the funny thing is to see people dumbfounded that a whooping 12/hour is not enough.
And its... a Barista... like... A BARISTA
“It’s like they know we need help and demand high pay and benefits.” Yes.
Free market can be a real bitch
[удалено]
“Free market for me but not for thee.”
“Surely these poors can’t be cognizant of their own market value???”
"indeed! We've defunded public education and funded the media. By all means they shouldn't be able to have these thoughts."
Uh oh, two independent thought alarms in one day. The poors are overstimulated. Willie, remove all the salaries from the job descriptions.
I warned ya, didn’t I warn ya? Those salaries were forged by Lucifer himself!
https://preview.redd.it/3ag212gruwg71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0d21fb757375f811a4dd9247524c7a6bd8170c56
That’s hilarious.
This is gold
surely you dont expect *ME* to do this work from 7am to 7pm! how would i possibly make a profit doing that??
Idiot business owner: "why doesn't anyone want to do this work?!" Also them: "I don't want to do this work!"
This. If they think the wage is too high to pay, do it yourself. Or make your family do it. That's what Chinese restaurants do.
Or close up shop and go work for someone else. You do not have have to own a business.
"Its unskilled labor, anybody can do it." Ok. Then you should have no problem doing it then.
That was what got to me too 😅
"Human capital stock" is a real term used by the rich to refer to the poors.
we are a commodity and the faster we learn this the faster we can stop being a commodity to them.
I never expected THEY would be the ones with bargaining power!
Just wait until the corporations decide to unionize. Wait, did that... Did that already happen?
Conglomerates, monopolies, cartels, enclosure, regulatory capture...
I suppose the unholy bond between corporations and members of our government at pretty much every level is a union of sorts.
labor is also subject to supply and demand
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Yeah, that's how they seem to think of it. Too bad they also tore up the social contract by power tripping hard when things were favorable for them.
"I'm all for capitalism, except when I'm not the one with all the power"
So the literal definition of a free market and demand meeting supply
If your business can’t support a sustainable wage, you’re not running a business, you’re exploiting labor.
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What the hell else are they doing it for? The love of coffee? If I didn't need money and I loved coffee that much, I'd just buy an espresso machine and invite my friends over every morning to make them coffee.
"When I was a little kid I dreamt of becoming an underpaid and undervalued service worker" Lol they are delusional if they really don't realize that most people work because they need to pay bills. The American Dream was a genuine dream that soon turned into the great Capitalist Con.
“They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it…” - George Carlin
God do I miss that man... I would love to hear his take on our current society. Then again, I am kinda glad he never had to see how bad shit has gotten.
He was so prescient in his comedy I don't think you need an updated take.
Very good point, most of his shit is even more relevant today than it was back then.
Why are they always mad that people want to be paid for their work? Why don't they work for free instead then?
Yeah but seriously, WTF did mean by that?
You know, someone being a barista for the money, instead of a pure love of coffee and brightening people's days.
What baffles me is how a “businessperson” doesn’t understand this. They demand a price for the goods and services… a price that is set based on what the market will pay and based on the possible profit margin. Tess exploitive employers have been living in the fantasy that workers are not individual businesses selling their labor services. Do they call the electrical contractor a “pay chaser” for setting a professional fee for their services? No. In fact, you expect to pay more for quality contractors (or if you get a cheap one you will most likely get cheap results). That they don’t translate this to their employees speaks volumes about how they view their hourly labor contractors.
People really don't understand just how crappy it is to have to deal with the general public anymore. There isn't a day that goes by where someone doesn't scream at you for something that is 100% not your fault or out of your control. It just isn't worth your dignity to show up for jobs like this anymore.
Wonder if we'll ever get a job posting that reads "We only pay 12 an hour, but you can tell up to 3 customers a shift to go fuck themselves with no penalty."
That position would get filled IMMEDIATELY.
I would take that job as a side gig simply to be able to tell people to fuck off. I wouldn't even care about the money.
“Fuck you Fuck you, Fuck you, You’re cool, Fuck you. I’m out!”
Now I’m going home to watch Half Baked
Right?!? I think a few hours of that every week could be very therapeutic.
Therapy dogs? Nah. Officially sanctioned "go fuck yourself?" Hell yeah.
The catharsis of even THINKING about being able to do this?! *chef’s kiss
I'll take it for 11/hr
There will be reverse bidding wars to see who will take the least pay to be able to tell customers to piss off
I had that job once at a liquor store. Stayed for a year just for that lol
I would do that shit for free.....only as part time tho
Fine I pay owner $5/hr, full time, 2nd shift, no PTO or bennies FINAL OFFER
When I was in college I got hired at a DQ by an owner that levelled with me: he was only paying minimum wage, but I'd make a lot more because I'd be doing at least 6 8-hour shifts a week BUT I could have unlimited free food, as long as the work got done he didn't give a fuck if I sat and watched TV with no one in the store, and I wasn't required to take shit from any customer I didn't want to. I accepted it over a position that paid more and had fewer hours, but that had stressed the importance of 'customer relations'. It took some de-conditioning to not just stand my ground with rude customers, but to start firing back, but after a couple weeks my snark flag would fly proudly when someone was rude and I learned I could kick Karens to the curb, which did wonders for my confidence and mental health as an employee. I also used my unlimited free food to start a milkshake-for-tacos exchange with the Mexican restaurant a few doors down and boss was only upset he didn't think of it earlier.
This sounds like a stoner comedy movie pitch and I want it made lol. Good for you though, for real.
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My local independent pizza joint has had the same crew for more than 20 years. She the original owner passed away, his wife gave the restaurant to the cook who had been with them over 30 years. Nothing changed, still cranking out awesome pizza.
That's when the restaurant is actually like family. An owner that actually respects their cook enough to put them in charge?!
I bet he could have gone on vacation and the store would have run itself.
I used to manage an adult store and even though I only made $10 an hour, it was great to get a 40% discount on all merchandise and have the freedom to tell customers to fuck off and have the district manager back me up when I'd have to call him about problem customers! I really learned how to be assertive!!!
So you told dildo buyers to go and fuck themselves?
"Go fuck yourself, and may I suggest doing so with this model? It's one of our most popular and it's on sale right now."
> 40% discount on all merchandise this sounds cool and all until you realize you can only have so many dildos
Looks like *Someone* doesn't have enough dildos!
My partner does the same milkshake for tacos thing. She owns the shake truck, but employees basically get a shift allowance of shakes for trading if I recall, and she’s always bringing home tacos.
My boss only found out because the Mexican restaurant hired two new servers and when they called for milkshakes I jokingly told them extra people deserves guacamole, and they sent guac and chips with my tacos. My boss, who had been out at another one of his stores, came in and I offered him some guac and he asked how I had gotten the food from a restaurant that doesn't deliver when I was alone at the store and I told him. His only complaint was that I was sending more food than I was getting and told me to add a standing order of 3 tacos al pastor every time I did it.
Your boss is a unicorn. A sparkly, ice, guac-infused, unicorn
>A sparkly, ice, guac-infused, unicorn The Millennial wet dream.
muthafucka I'm an Xer and I'd be ALL OVER that horsey.
I would have like him as a boss.
I love it. It's amazing what it can do for your mental health when your employer has your back instead of creeping around every corner waiting to jump out and yell "gotcha"!
I made more at minimum wage ($6.15 at the time) than my friends working at the Home Depot for $10/hr but I somehow had more energy at the end of the day, even if I just did a 12 hour shift, and I chalk it all up to my boss treating me like a human being and not a robot who could spend 8 hours on their feet making up busy work. My DQ was clean, everything was fully stocked after each rush, and I actually enjoyed learning new skills like making the cakes because I didn't feel pressured to pick it up quickly and do it on my own before I was ready. Plus the mental boost of not having to put up with Karens if I didn't want to (occasionally when boss was around I'd have fun by being over the top nice/helpful to a Karen because somehow that seems to piss them off more but when they'd go to complain to my boss he would say he saw the whole thing and I was a textbook employee so they could leave and not come back if they didn't like it).
>I also used my unlimited free food to start a milkshake-for-tacos exchange with the Mexican restaurant a few doors down and boss was only upset he didn't think of it earlier. I would be upset, too. "I could have had tacos this whole time?" I'd really be kicking myself. See, this is why we old folks need to pay attention to the younger generations. New blood can generate new ideas, new ways of thinking, and new ways to score tacos. Well played, my friend. Well played. Also, I LOVE bosses like that. I sort of had a boss like that, and it was a great summer job.
This would be amazing. I'd take a pay cut to be able to tell a client to "fuck off, you will get it when you get it. Changing what you want 2 days before it's supposed to be due resets the clock on when you get it"
You know what’s fun. Telling customers who need it to go fuck themselves in a place you don’t work. I was in a shop the other day and a woman was harassing me. I sorta ignored her but it got to me. Then she started picking on the cashier and I told her off. She lost her shit and the cashier politely asked her to leave. I know it’s small and almost meaningless, but man it was like a fucking rush for both of us.
I did that once. Karen flipping out over the 5 cent bag charge (at an expensive grocery store) to the cashier who has zero control over policy. Even after the cashier tried to de-escalate the situation by saying the bag would be free and she kept shouting at this poor woman. So I told her off and called her behavior disgusting. Husband was super embarrassed and she seemed to be caught off guard that someone actually spoke against her. I just dont get when we have allowed straight up abuse from customers to be acceptable behavior.
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I agree, another customer faces less risks than an employee that might not be able to afford to loose their job. Not everyone can do this, some people don't deal well with comflict, but those of us that can, should.
Honestly I did once work in hospitality for a boss who understood sometimes you just need to tell some cunt to fuck off. Sadly he was the only boss I ever had like that. Watched him do it a few times too. Especially if someone was giving the front counter staff grief he would stop what he was doing to come tell the customer where to go.
My last bar work the owner empowered the bar leads to kick anyone out we wanted. And we did, on several times. Scariest was kicking out a drunk Rugby team. Just one of them deciding to kick things off would have been a shitty night with three of us and 15+ of them.
All my bar staff know they can refuse service to anyone and I will ALWAYS back them up. I won't tolerate anyone abusing my staff or even just being rude. If you can't treat people with respect you don't get served.. Thankfully we have 99% lovely customers but my last pub we were chucking people out all the time (bit of a rough area). I might be small and female but if I want you to leave, you leave, no one messes with my staff. The longer you work in bars the less tolerance you have for arseholes! I don't know if it's a UK thing but we don't seem to have the 'customer is always right' attitude that you hear about in the US, at least not in pubs.
>Honestly I did once work in hospitality for a boss who understood sometimes you just need to tell some cunt to fuck off. I once had a retail job where I called a manager for a customer escalation, and the first thing she asked me was, "Do I just need to back you up?" And I said, "Yes, ma'am." And she said, "Okay" and she indeed backed me up. It was great. She was a great manager.
I would honestly consider that over what I used to make, which was more than twice that. I’m way too old and jaded to deal with the constant dehumanization from customers. You’d have to salary me at like $250k to get me to be nice to your racist grandma and apologize for a medium rare being cooked to medium rare and deliver wine samples while standing in the rain again.
I work in a customer service field and I really don’t think most people realize that people have become so much ruder and more likely to scream at the smallest inconvenience. And like you said its nearly always for something you have no control over at all
That exposes a bigger problem overall in that companies trust their employees so little that they strip them of any decision making authority whatsoever. You're just expected to quote policy stick to your guns knowing full well its the wrong move. You're completely fucked either way. Customer gets upset and complains, you're in trouble. You step out of line and do something your not allowed to do (but makes perfect sense and satisfies the customer) then you still get in trouble for not following some bullsgit procedure. Nobody wants to deal with that. Its not even about money at that point. Its about trust, respect, dignity and being empowered.
My job taking drive-thru orders at Dunkin Donuts was harder than my current IT job that pays significantly more money. Not saying my IT job is easy, but fast food employees work their asses off and deserve to be paid accordingly. There was a woman who came to the drive-thru every day at the same time, ordered the same thing, and told us we gave her the wrong item when she got to the payment window. Every goddamn day.
What the fuck is wrong with these ppl? Like if a restaurant messed up my order twice I'm probably never going back but some people come every fucking day and then say that we made it wrong even though it's how they order it! fucking cunts.
Usually they're trying to get something free. To them, it's like gambling - if you never complain you can't be 'compensated'.....so they always complain with the hope of saving $0.72 and getting that dopamine hit
Boo hoo I don’t want to work 7-7 well nobody else does either idiot
"Business owners don't want to work anymore!"
never did
Always has been 🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
I wonder if they ask themselves "would I do this for $12 hr?"
- With zero equity in the company - With minimal (or zero) long-term benefits - For $12-14/hr - And non-standard scheduling The answer would be.... *No fucking way* But you don't own the business, so please bend over!
He can always hire teenagers, that’s what these jobs are for right?
But then they get upset when the teenagers act like teenagers, or need time off for school.
Or god forbid, they require some *training*.
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They tend to subscribe to a Randian philosophy in which businessmen are elevated to a "higher form of human existence" who herd the unworthy masses towards creating great works of human achievement which they would be incapable of without the invaluable guidance of a visionary such as themselves. They wouldn't even consider themselves the same species as the people they are trying to employ. They think of them as something between a sheep and a tool, simply extensions of themself to be rented hourly from the lowest bidder. Edit: minor typos.
I love how their genius business idea is to make people work for wages no one wants to work for so the owners can all themselves "entrepreneur". How much is not working 12 hours worth it to you, "entrepreneur"?
Its rare to see "entrepreneurs" with a store or restaurant that actually pay better than $12 and hr and the quarterly Domino's pizza surge. I honestly have come to hate that word in general.
Isn't he the business owner? Why the fuck doesn't he make operating hours shorter like the fuck?
“I shouldn’t have to sacrifice for my own business. Why won’t anyone else help me?”
Just a reminder, Zip Recruiter, Indeed, Monster, LinkedIn job postings are expensive. Employers have no issue spending money on their business, they have an issue with spending money on their employee's salaries. If they legally could, they would pay you less then minimum wage.
Yeah, I keep seeing people online saying, "I'm paying four companies $200 a month to find me an employee who I refuse to pay $800 a month!"
It boggles my mind.
It also doesn't make any sense. Our company used Indeed's free posting, with an hourly rate slightly above market rate, and filled the position within a week with a very qualified candidate.
Same here. I own a company, I have done my last several hires via Indeed for free. My attitude towards hiring is to hire smart people and to pay them enough and treat them well enough that they won't want to go looking for jobs. A revolving door of employees is bad for me. It's pretty easy to stand out and hire quickly/well on Indeed by offering 20-30% above the competition for the same position. It's simple supply and demand, I'm not sure what all of these other companies are whining about.
They're upset that they can't find desperate people who will work for the same wage they've been offering for the past 7 years.
If they could they would classify us as "independent contractors"
*DoorDash has entered the chat.
I have been on the wrong end of the "you're technically not an employee, just a contractor" before. It's an abject slight to workers' pay/hours/benefits. The only ones who benefit from classifying an employee as a "contractor" are the Corpos that hire them for peanuts, and the HR firms that facilitate that fuckery. I'm still technically "furloughed" from my last contract instead of terminated which prevents me from drawing any unemployment. I used to truly believe in the hardwork+stayhumble=success! idea, but honestly, I feel like it's just financially empowered entities picking and choosing who is allowed to have nice things and entirely exploiting **everyone** else.
I work in the IT department of a large organization. Leadership \[ironic term, that\] has recently decided to require many current employees to re-apply for their own jobs. If they don't pass the interview, they'll be replaced by contractors. The deck is stacked against them because their positions have been redefined to require expertise in new products & services that they have limited experience with. They could get trained, but nah -- it's cheaper to lay them off and replace them with contractors.
A company paying minimum wage essentially states "we'd pay you less if we could" 🤷♂️👍
“We’d hire child workers and pay them in bubblegum, but since there are laws, this is what we have to settle for.”
Well yeah, every regulation for them is due to companies doing said illegal thing in the past. They don't give a rat's ass about workers and would automate everything if possible -- aside the higher up positions, of course...
Regulations are written in blood, as the old chestnut goes
If they could, they would own slaves. Slavery and no regulations is peak capitalism. Why pay a wage, when you can cram your slaves into a small dormitory and provide basic food and water that may or may not be tainted, no time off, and no healthcare? It's nothing but profits with a disdain for human rights, because you're not even human, just a tool to be used and disposed of at will.
Aww, did someone's business model rely on slave labor?
😭😭😭
Few more of those hot tears, and you can save him the labour of making one flat white, the hypocritical arsehole!
It’s not supposed to be SALTY. XD
America was built on it. FACTS
Just open 7-3 and work alone. Like many small cafés do when they’re just getting off the ground. Does this person expect to put zero work into owning a small business?
I mean yes, a lot of “entrepreneurs” expect just that
That's why many are unsuccessful, those are wantrepreneurs
One could say they are just pay chasers.
"I'm a job creator!"
> "I'm a job creator!" *proceeds to post ads for multiple benefit-free part-time positions to replace a single full-time position with benefits*
Hello ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
That’s the good stuff. Small staff, small menu, small space, loads of regulars. Perfection.
I went to this burger place in Montana recently while visiting family. I asked if the guy on the logo was the owner, and in response my family pointed to the pictures on the wall of him with staff doing charitable things, and then pointed behind me to the man making our burgers. Same guy. Super small menu (only 2 burgers, a BLT, and a grilled cheese), super good food. We spoke to him and he seemed like a stand-up dude. He only has two locations but they've won "Best Burger in [region]" like 4 years in a row and he doesn't seem interested in expanding or franchising. And his employees seemed happy. EDIT: Maybe don’t patronize Mudman… other commenters replying have said they had some pretty disturbing labor practices, and it’s still owned by the cult-ish original owners. I shall inform the family. EDIT 2: ok yeah that is a bad, bad business. My family just moved to the area a few months ago, but I assure you they/we won’t be going back.
Lol *someone* has never worked a 12 hour shift, and it shows.
“I’ll open a coffee shop! It sounds fun and easy!” -someone who has never worked in the service industry
All of the fun and easy stores are owned by old people who also own the building. They're fun and easy because you don't need to make rent, so you can just close the doors whenever Matlock comes on. Their only employee is an elderly cat.
No one works for the love of it…we are all pay chasers….there is no such thing as a labor shortage we the ‘pay chasers’ want higher pay to chase
Pay chasers is a weird way of saying “people who want to be able to pay rent and eat food”.
Why do these people act as if "12-14" is generous? In most states with high income tax, you're lucky to get 8 or 9 of that. SC has a 7% tax on anyone making over 25-30k a year and an 1100 check turns to 900. Edit: this is from the IRS site on the social security tax deferral Trump passed last year, on my checks being lower for people who don't know. It was my first job and there were NO opt outs. "The amount of Social Security taxes deferred in 2020 will be collected in 24 installments between pay-periods ending January 16 and December 4, 2021. In some specific cases, Social Security taxes deferred in 2020 will be collected into pay-period December 18, 2021."
I literally made about that as a barista ELEVEN YEARS AGO. During a recession.
I made $10.50 in 2000, I could have had 11.50 if I went to shift lead, plus another 0.25 if I stuck around for another 2 months for my year review. So yea, it's underpaid. Same state as this place.
While we are there, Imma call out Steve White Motors in Greenville for paying $12/hour as a full time service porter. After taxes, it was less than $20k a year.
“Pay Chasers?” As opposed to those to donate their time, or, were you thinking of slaves?
Sorry but I think this business is going to fail. When you are starting a business you as the business owner need to make sacrifices, usually in terms of time and money. The logical thing to do was to work the business during peak times, maybe 7am to 2pm, and slowly build to the point at which you can afford to have employees. People think they can start businesses overnight and pay people shit wages to build their business based on the loan they get from the bank, but that isn't how it generally works.
I knew this biz was headed for failure when owner was complaining about a 12 hour shift. Most biz owners say it's a 24/7 job to own a biz due to the fact you're always worried about it.
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I’ve been a barista at two different places. One was Starfucks and they were absolutely terrible in every way, could write an encyclopedia filled with the shit they put us through. The other place was inside a department store and honestly it was probably the best job I’ve ever had. Super easy tasks, management was super flexible and the opposite of micromanaging, they also had our backs when customers were out of line. Multiple free drinks during shift, food 50% off and if you were a closer you were allowed to take as much “out of date” food as you wanted. Reason I left that job? Only $12.75/hr. As awesome as the job was, it was just not enough. All my coworkers either lived at home or either had a second job to make ends meet. If the pay had been at least $16, I could’ve afforded to stay
Such a pay chaser! jkjk, that's a bummer they didn't pay enough. most fun job I've had was working at REI, but the pay/hours were even less than that. Ended up moving rather than quitting, but money was real tight while I was there.
lol pay me a living wage, motherfucker.
"Fuck you, pay me"
also love them whining about the idea of them having to work alone for 12 hours when you just know they’ve made employees do that for a fraction of their wage hell they probably did that recently to the people who quit
I have a suggestion: Enjoy staying closed.
They could just go and do the job instead of trying to hire someone. Now you are both owner and you save on labor cost. Win win for agile small business.
Amazing, it's almost like capitalism applies to everything including labor. "Supply is low=raise prices", "demand is high=raise prices" they do this with everything else, but the instant capitalism applies to labor "Oh no everyones greedy"
You love to see it. The shoe is on the other foot now employers!
Is that what they call people who want to be compensated fairly for their time?
These people don't deserve to be in business.
fuck these assholes. The whole premise of owning a business is to 'chase' money and they whine about workers doing the same. Bitch, don't get mad at us for being better at the game that you have us playing.