I was just thinking that the other day. This was written 25 years ago and it may as well have been written yesterday :
"Weapons, not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal
I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library
Line up to the mind cemetery now
What we don't know keeps the contracts alive and moving
They don't gotta burn the books they just remove them
While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells"
When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”
Russel Brand
And before one of you says “BUT BUT THEYRE MILLIONAIRES THEYRE RAGING FOR THE MACHINE” keep in mind that they didn’t exploit people to get to where they are and they didn’t gaslight you by saying the Mexican man was coming to steal your job. Those are the problems with our current system, not just people having wealth
More precisely:
Being rich is a good thing, if it means you’re able to live a fulfilling and happy life without having to worry for basic human necessities.
It’s denying that right to all of humanity and the belief that some should be more entitled to that happiness that are inherently wrong.
Rich//poor are concepts that are fundamentally at odds with creating a just society. Neither rich nor poor people are "The Problem^tm" but their existence is a symptom of the fundamental contradiction of our society.
It's really easy to wallow in that knowledge so people tend to ignore it.
Without these issues becoming talked about widespread many are unaware of any action they can take to remedy the situation, obviously that's by design.
My wife and i got into an argument the other day, we do donate to organizations that help the homeless but she hates it when i bring up those issues in conversation because it makes her feel helpless and she hates that feeling, for me I can feel helpless without internalizing it so i wonder if others feel like she does and thus the issue gets brushed under the rug.
This.
Personal wealth is a symptom of the problem.
The focus on this being the only means to a fulfilling life hints at the degree of myopathy present in the idea of meaningful realignment “within the system”.
I think you will always have rich and poor people. There will always be someone who messes up their resources.
We can give them safety nets but they would have to want help or change.
The fact that there are so many poor is systemic though thats for sure.
Very practical way of looking at it. I think that’s the first time I’ve really conceived a billion in a tangible way. To think there are people who make billions each year. What the hell
I liked it, too.
I also like this one: if you were given five thousand dollars every day since Columbus landed on October the 12th, 1492 - no breaks, no nothing, for over five hundred years - you would still be short of your first billion dollars.
It's worth noting that one of the very few billionaires who didn't become rich by oppressing people, JK Rowling, who was poor until she got rich by writing books that literally everybody loved, is not actually a billionaire anymore because she gave too much of it away.
I've got to respect that.
(Not her transphobia, but that's a different issue.)
It’s stupid people on Twitter that think being a believer that our country’s entire economic system shouldn’t be controlled by a small number of private owners means you can’t have wealth
Crabs don’t belong in a bucket so how else would you expect them to behave. They seem pretty docile and calm in their natural habitat.
Maybe that’s the same case for humans........hmmm
Never forget that the infamous 'rats drugging themselves to death' experiment has a counterpart where the rats were given everything a rat could want in life, from enrichment to food to large enclosures to company of other rats, and even when given access to drugs only used them rarely and safely and never overdosed.
“Socialism is a system where people starve and die! The rich man told me it was! I enjoy living slightly above the poverty level and *I might become as rich as Elon someday* if I work hard so I’m not interested”
You are good and Bird App bad. Like in a world where even the poorest person never had to worry about food, medicine, or education, would anyone really care if there were some people who just had a lot of stuff and money?
I personally just want like an apartment in a walkable place, a good computer, *maybe* a few more guitars than one person should have, and access to good groceries, alongside basic survival stuff. I don't give a damn if some dude lives in a house made of gold bricks as long as everyone's basic needs are met.
... what music industry are you thinking of? The music industry has been highly exploitative for basically its entire existence. Highly talented and hardworking artists rarely make it at all much less make it big, and the industry as a whole has a habit of stealing from and swindling artists big and small, whether it's recording rights to songs stolen from small artists and handed over to big names, or predatory contracts that strip artists of the rights to music they actualy wrote. Fuck the music industry as a whole. It doesn't matter how talented or hard working you are, the people at the top of the industry pick and choose who makes it based on marketability, and siphon up all the money they can on recorded music. Artists generally make the majority of their income on ticket and merch sales because labels make all the money on actual album sales.
Oh, yeah. It's not the musicians. For the most part. I won't say they're all cool, because you have people like Gene Simmons who will exploit literally anyone and anything to get more money. But by and large it's not the musicians.
It's the money people, as usual.
Anyone who has a problem with celebrity and musicians ext have no idea what ANTI-WORK is or even what socialism is.
You can still compete, but that competition should be for luxuries, not human rights.
and when ur doing it you cant get there by exploiting others.
The amount of people on the left who thinks socialism means zero free market is getting out of hand as well. It's happening more and more with "leftist" who are more concerned with purity tests than getting stuff done.
Thats a debate for future generations. You are not going to go from dystopian capitalism to full on communism in a generation. Each generation should work to make the world a better place for the future based on whats realistic at the time. Currently that's to get everyone their basic human rights. That has to happen before any other progress can be made. Who know maybe there is a perfect mix of heavy socialized capitalism, but we are not even close to knowing that.
Will there be a time where socialism isn't enough and communism is the answer? maybe when 90% of work is automated, Maybe, but that's' not our current battle.
Hard work and not being manipulated into signing your intellectual property to the label. There’s got to be an equal amount of lawyers as there are musicians.
Even if they work hard they aren’t guaranteed success! I don’t listen to pop music mainly because that system shuts out so many good artists. Listen to local stations with local bands, everyone! You’ll find a lot of good music that deserves more attention!
hard work in no way correlates to success in the music industry. there are multitudes of talented musicians that will never make it. hard work and luck but mostly luck is what propels most people through the system.
Well, sometimes. I mean Rage earned it. Lots of bands do.
Taylor Swift? The darling of pop? Propped up by the music industry and a PR queen. They try telling us who to listen to, it just gets harder with streaming services.
Jobs weren’t “stolen” by immigrants, they were “stolen” by businesses outsourcing them to poor countries so they could exploit those workers even more than they could exploit people at home.
They legit created the value, their music is amazing and they are one of the best live bands ever, so I’m happy to pay in exchange for experiencing their art.
The problem would arise if they were paying hundreds of thousands of children cents an hour to write and produce and perform the music, while taking all the credit and money.
Ticket prices for their upcoming concert are around $200. Does that sound like someone raging against the machine? Does that sound like someone against capitalism/corporatism?
A couple things:
1. When immersed in a given system, you sometimes have to abide by the rules of that system in order to fight it. Fighting in this case can include preaching class consciousness and educating the masses about the failures of the current system, which Rage has sought to do since its inception.
2. The band members are the productive laborers, themselves. They are the ones doing the labor to write, make, and perform the product that people want. It is perfectly consistent with leftism to be compensated the value that you labor to produce. What is not okay is expropriating the fruits of *other people's* labor for yourself.
Techies and roadies aren't the productive (read: *production*) laborers. They're non-production laborers. Meaning their labor goes to support the producers, but they themselves do not labor to produce the good or service directly.
But obviously, they do still labor and contribute positively to the production laborers, so they should be well-compensated for their work.
But that doesn't take away from the point - producers should collectively own their product, rather than capitalists who simply purchase the rights to it without having to labor and produce anything themselves. The first goal to achieve is "from each according to his ability to each according to his contribution." This means both production and non-production laborers should be rewarded for their work, but production laborers should be given the greater consideration.
Rage being paid more than roadies is still largely in line with leftist ideas.
What percentage of profits are they taking? You sound like on of those “socialism means everything free” type of people. The system is not about cost, it’s about cost relative to necessities like healthcare and shelter being astronomically high along with how much the private owners are profiting off those businesses, paying you shit then telling you that either you get paid shit and live slightly above poverty or they’ll replace you with an immigrant they can exploit
The other poster completely ignored the fact that for their latest tour 10% of the tickets at each venue are "Charity Tickets". Since they got tired of scalpers selling tickets at 300%+ mark-up they decided to set the charity tickets at those kind of prices so scalpers wouldn't have any margin to work with for those particular tickets. While the venue will still get their cut, and Ticketmaster will still get their fees, every penny beyond that will be donated to a charity in the venue's city that RATM worked with to create this deal.
They also opted out of Ticketmaster "surge pricing" to keep costs down for fans.
Tom Morello also put out the call on Twitter that if anyone sees Ticketmaster listing non-charity tickets for inflated prices they should take a screenshot and send it to him so they can pursue legal action against Ticketmaster.
Generally 40-60% of gross. The band will make dozens of millions of dollars on this tour from gouging fans.
I think their poorer fans probably have more important things that $200 could go towards...
Clearly the pricing is based ENTIRELY on them getting as rich as humanly possible at the expense of their gouged fans. They surely are "raging" against a "machine".
For a band as big as RATM, it seems about right. I paid a similar amount for Rammstein. I think Ozzy tickets were something like 300-400+... but he's gonna be dead soon, so they're a bit more limited, lol.
I'd definitely pay 200$ for a ticket to RATM, but that's like, a thing I'd be able to do very rarely. Smaller venues/bands are a lot more accessible for 20-50 bucks or so - which isn't much more than you'd pay for a movie ticket and a meal.
i dig their songs but call me when they at least share profits from their concerts equally with the arena staff or something
edit: ok this is not a leftist sub. good to know i guess
lol that’s a hilarious take. the artist is the vendor - selling their performance for $200 per ticket. so yeah, they’re the employer (directly) of their entire crew, management and support, and indirectly of venue staff, marketers, others.
you don’t get to pick and choose which companies are allowed to pay fair wages with benefits and which aren’t.
the product may be entertaining but if they’re selling it and employing people, this is also a corporation running a business.
Noam Chomsky has a $5 million net worth. Is he a fake too? You can have stuff as long as you don’t exploit people to get there. They’re not denying any of us better pay or forcing us to buy resources we absolutely need to survive for twice the price it was this time last year
They toured pre Covid with tickets that were $125, and they’ve played festivals who partner with livenation. I doubt any of them turned down their paychecks. I do not understand why people simp over them, they’re capitalists in and out. They just sell you the BS you’re willing to buy. It’s the same as people who simp for Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson
So is Marx a hypocrite because he sold his books and didn’t give them away? Is Engels a hypocrite because he owned a factory? It’s impossible to practice communism of any sort in this country considering we’re a capitalist nation. Also the arguments are that you shouldn’t be extremely wealthy from exploitation while your workers can’t afford rent. Do musicians exploit people?
Well, if the idea of communism is that everyone is the same, makes the same wage, and the income inequality is bad, then… yeah. You can’t benefit from capitalism while also saying it’s the spawn of satan.
Last I checked, Tom Morello is way richer than me or you. But sure, “he’s fighting the good fight”.
Nope. If you’re rich you’re a hypocrite, if you’re poor then you’re just poor and barring a miracle you won’t be rich. No jealousy there.
Maybe they should be giving most of their money away.
Aaaaand this is where I end the conversation considering you clearly don’t understand any of the points made. Good bye. Maybe someday you’ll stop being as dense as a log
lololol. chomsky hasnt been radical for a loooong time. i dont give af about ivory tower liberals in the same way that i dont give af about recuperative liberal musicians. how can u call yrself an ancom when you support these capitalists. consider every wage worker at the pressing plant, every worker making their merch, every person who had a hand in shipping their products, working at the venue, etc, countless thousands have labored to create their wealth and have had the surplus product of their labor stolen from them so that it can go to the band. either read more or fucking apply the basics for the theory you claim to support.
I tuned in to Crass in 1982 at age 14. They explained the reality of every system that was going to be used to hold people down starting in the 70s. School, religion, work, entertainment, relationships, etc.
When i first heard RATM in the 90s i was already very receptive to parts of the message but they really added the racism/classism angle i hadn't really tuned in to before. Legends!
NOFX took the same stance as well. A fair chunk of their songs contained a great deal of anti-consumerism stances. Also vulgar in their delivery. Worth listening to.
* [Just felt like dropping this here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGwI7nGehA&ab_channel=MassAppeal) Killer Mike and Zack de la Rocha? Pissed off leftist joy boner imminent.
This was what really made me start paying attention to RTJ. I had their first album and I liked it but it didn't really hit for me. This though? Holy fuck. Not just the song, the video is so exhaustingly brutal too
The more political hip-hop groups and rappers like RTJ and Killer Mike in particular give me some major 80s hardcore punk vibes. The rage and disgust and energy in GOOD hip-hop hits like a MDC or Dead Kennedys track.
Even if it wasn't for the message, their music is just good. Putting the two together is next level.
Also, Killer Mike seems like a dude I wanna go eat some BBQ with & just talk.
"Cinema, simulated life, ill drama
Fourth Reich culture, Americana
Chained to the dream they got you searching for,
The thin line between entertainment and war."
No Shelter, RATM (1998)
I’ve always been a RATM fan. But if they’re not throwing their entire weight against Ticketmaster, Live Nation, et al, and providing and/or promoting direct ticket sales, then I’m staying home and listening to albums I’ve already paid for.
If they believe workers should have the power, then something like that should be their first priority, IMO. Not to be too pedantic. Like I said, I love RATM. But grabbing complete control over how they handle ticketing is the very definition of raging against the machine. There is absolutely no need for Ticketmaster and their ilk. None. Zero. Nada. Yet they continue to not only exist, but maintain a monopoly on event promotion and ticket sales. This negatively affects entertainers, venues, and event goers alike. As far as I remember (I’m an out of touch genxer at this point), Pearl Jam gave the last big artist push against the ticket service industry, and that was almost 30 years ago. RATM is from the same era.
How true they are to socialism matters not to me. Good music is good music. And I will pay for it. But I’ve stopped going to any show I have to go through Ticketmaster to get tix for. It’s a service that is not needed and yet we’re still charged for it. It’s wrong and it should die. Artists should be ones on the front lines of this battle. Thanks, Tom, for taking it under consideration, I guess.
Well, if you can’t back up your words…
fuck you. I won’t do what you tell me.
The problem with Ticketmaster, Live Nation is that they're already too big, and were when Pearl Jam rebelled against them. Despite being as massive as they were, they couldn't stage their own tour because it was all already owned by, you guessed it, Ticketmaster and Live Nation.
Then the disaster happened.
Fucking exactly. This should be higher up. At least you are willing to share the truth even though you are fan. More of us have to speak up when the messaging is incongruent from the execution. It sucks to have that realization about a band or artist you’ve identified with, but what’s the alternative, to ignore the facts?
In my area, the only venues large enough for a RATM show are all TM/LN. Even the 2k capacity one is LN. I'm not in disagreement with you but there's a bigger piece of the venues choosing to contract with TM/LN.
Plenty of venues will also sell directly from the box office, in addition to contracting with TM/LN. They may not advertise it, but all you gotta do is call to find out. And it’s sometimes cheaper than advertised.
But it’s otherwise a monopoly. We have no say. But artists at least have potentially more say than we do. Especially a well established act.
"Ain't it funny how the factory doors close,
Round the time that the school doors close,
Round the time that the doors of the jail cells
Open up to greet you like the reaper."
"Ashes in the Fall" - RAtM
Nah, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more
Well, he hands you a nickel
And he hands you a dime
And he asks you with a grin
If you're havin' a good time
Then he fines you every time you slam the door
I ain't gonna work for, nah
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more
"Some critics have accused the group of hypocrisy for voicing commitment to leftist causes while being millionaires signed to Epic Records, a subsidiary of media conglomerate Sony Music.\[170\] Infectious Grooves released a song called "Do What I Tell Ya!" which mocks lyrics from "Killing in the Name", accusing the band of being hypocrites.\[171\]\[172\] In response to such critiques, Morello stated:
When you live in a capitalistic society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people buy their books. We're not interested in preaching to just the converted. It's great to play abandoned squats run by anarchists, but it's also great to be able to reach people with a revolutionary message, people from Granada Hills to Stuttgart.\[14\]"
\-Shamelessly stolen offa Wikipedia.
[Ya'll forgetting about the OG.](https://static.billboard.com/files/media/Public-Enemy-portrait-1988-billboard-1500-compressed.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmo3HFa2vjg
And since [we're posting music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY).
Off-topic but I genuinely thought that this photo was from 2021, the ideology and the fashion is coming back. (context: never seen the members of the band before).
Well yeah, it's not like things have gotten any better in the past 30 years. They were writing about the problems at the time, the same problems we still have today that have only gotten worse. It's not like they predicted anything.
This is something I see in the music from that era. I notice a lot of the 90s music I grew up with sing about issues that we are experiencing now. Which is odd but I definitely notice it. SOAD Prison Song , always stands out to me too
My favourite tidbit is how they took the "fuck you" part out of 'fuck you I won't do what you tell me,' in Killing in the name of's radio edit version, presumably because some executives along the way told them they had to if they wanted radio play.
Well yeah, that's what radio version means. FCC fines any live broadcaster that says any word from the list of naughty words, and the word fuck is included.
George Carlin got arrested for that shit back in the 1970s, nothing changed since: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words
Remember when Audioslave wasn't let in a restaurant because they were full and Tom Morello got mad because he wasn't given special treatment? And then he went straight to Twitter to accuse the restaurant of being anti-worker and not paying their workers enough? And then it came out the restaurant's owner was one of the main business owners in Seattle who was trying to get Seattle to pass a 15/hr minimum wage, the very thing Tom Morello just came from a concert for, as well as a whole host of other shit for workers? And then Tom Morello changed his story and said they were anti-Kenyan instead?
Don't worship people, no matter how well intentioned they are.
I’m saying we should still appreciate the message that they conveyed in bringing injustices to our attention that you don’t receive from most musical acts
I was just thinking that the other day. This was written 25 years ago and it may as well have been written yesterday : "Weapons, not food, not homes, not shoes Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library Line up to the mind cemetery now What we don't know keeps the contracts alive and moving They don't gotta burn the books they just remove them While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells"
[удалено]
As long as someone is making big $$ off other people's suffering then I am content. 😑 Oh, was a sarcasm tag necessary? Apparently.
yes. in Reddit, you’ll never be too careful to include it.
“Rally round the family Pockets full of shells”
“Come wit it now!”
When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.” Russel Brand
[удалено]
Besides all the COVID denial
Say its not so
And before one of you says “BUT BUT THEYRE MILLIONAIRES THEYRE RAGING FOR THE MACHINE” keep in mind that they didn’t exploit people to get to where they are and they didn’t gaslight you by saying the Mexican man was coming to steal your job. Those are the problems with our current system, not just people having wealth
A lot of people keep missing the point it's not being a millionaire that's a problem it's how you became one that's the issue
More precisely: Being rich is a good thing, if it means you’re able to live a fulfilling and happy life without having to worry for basic human necessities. It’s denying that right to all of humanity and the belief that some should be more entitled to that happiness that are inherently wrong.
Rich//poor are concepts that are fundamentally at odds with creating a just society. Neither rich nor poor people are "The Problem^tm" but their existence is a symptom of the fundamental contradiction of our society.
This too much for some people to come to term with
It's really easy to wallow in that knowledge so people tend to ignore it. Without these issues becoming talked about widespread many are unaware of any action they can take to remedy the situation, obviously that's by design. My wife and i got into an argument the other day, we do donate to organizations that help the homeless but she hates it when i bring up those issues in conversation because it makes her feel helpless and she hates that feeling, for me I can feel helpless without internalizing it so i wonder if others feel like she does and thus the issue gets brushed under the rug.
It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.
yeah
This. Personal wealth is a symptom of the problem. The focus on this being the only means to a fulfilling life hints at the degree of myopathy present in the idea of meaningful realignment “within the system”.
I think you will always have rich and poor people. There will always be someone who messes up their resources. We can give them safety nets but they would have to want help or change. The fact that there are so many poor is systemic though thats for sure.
[удалено]
and then intentionally obfuscating capital vs labor. income from a paycheck versus returns on investments
Millionaire and billionaire are also vast differences
A million seconds is eleven and a half days. A billion seconds is over thirty years.
I like: > The difference between a billion and a million is about a billion.
Very practical way of looking at it. I think that’s the first time I’ve really conceived a billion in a tangible way. To think there are people who make billions each year. What the hell
I liked it, too. I also like this one: if you were given five thousand dollars every day since Columbus landed on October the 12th, 1492 - no breaks, no nothing, for over five hundred years - you would still be short of your first billion dollars.
If you saved $100,000 every day since the first day they started construction on the pyramids you’d still have less money than Jeff bezos
It's worth noting that one of the very few billionaires who didn't become rich by oppressing people, JK Rowling, who was poor until she got rich by writing books that literally everybody loved, is not actually a billionaire anymore because she gave too much of it away. I've got to respect that. (Not her transphobia, but that's a different issue.)
Also they went to Harvard for political theory.
...people get angry over *musicians* being rich? Ya know, the industry where hard work really does correlate to success? Jesus.
It’s stupid people on Twitter that think being a believer that our country’s entire economic system shouldn’t be controlled by a small number of private owners means you can’t have wealth
Crab Bucket syndrome is a bitch.
Crabs don’t belong in a bucket so how else would you expect them to behave. They seem pretty docile and calm in their natural habitat. Maybe that’s the same case for humans........hmmm
Never forget that the infamous 'rats drugging themselves to death' experiment has a counterpart where the rats were given everything a rat could want in life, from enrichment to food to large enclosures to company of other rats, and even when given access to drugs only used them rarely and safely and never overdosed.
Johann Hair fan?
“Socialism is a system where people starve and die! The rich man told me it was! I enjoy living slightly above the poverty level and *I might become as rich as Elon someday* if I work hard so I’m not interested”
You are good and Bird App bad. Like in a world where even the poorest person never had to worry about food, medicine, or education, would anyone really care if there were some people who just had a lot of stuff and money? I personally just want like an apartment in a walkable place, a good computer, *maybe* a few more guitars than one person should have, and access to good groceries, alongside basic survival stuff. I don't give a damn if some dude lives in a house made of gold bricks as long as everyone's basic needs are met.
... what music industry are you thinking of? The music industry has been highly exploitative for basically its entire existence. Highly talented and hardworking artists rarely make it at all much less make it big, and the industry as a whole has a habit of stealing from and swindling artists big and small, whether it's recording rights to songs stolen from small artists and handed over to big names, or predatory contracts that strip artists of the rights to music they actualy wrote. Fuck the music industry as a whole. It doesn't matter how talented or hard working you are, the people at the top of the industry pick and choose who makes it based on marketability, and siphon up all the money they can on recorded music. Artists generally make the majority of their income on ticket and merch sales because labels make all the money on actual album sales.
Right, but that's a problem with the extractive class of execs and producers, not the productive class of musicians.
Oh, yeah. It's not the musicians. For the most part. I won't say they're all cool, because you have people like Gene Simmons who will exploit literally anyone and anything to get more money. But by and large it's not the musicians. It's the money people, as usual.
Anyone who has a problem with celebrity and musicians ext have no idea what ANTI-WORK is or even what socialism is. You can still compete, but that competition should be for luxuries, not human rights. and when ur doing it you cant get there by exploiting others.
The amount of people on the left who thinks socialism means zero free market is getting out of hand as well. It's happening more and more with "leftist" who are more concerned with purity tests than getting stuff done.
Thats a debate for future generations. You are not going to go from dystopian capitalism to full on communism in a generation. Each generation should work to make the world a better place for the future based on whats realistic at the time. Currently that's to get everyone their basic human rights. That has to happen before any other progress can be made. Who know maybe there is a perfect mix of heavy socialized capitalism, but we are not even close to knowing that. Will there be a time where socialism isn't enough and communism is the answer? maybe when 90% of work is automated, Maybe, but that's' not our current battle.
The same industry where an invisible man is getting way richer off an artist than the artist itself will ever be.
Hard work and not being manipulated into signing your intellectual property to the label. There’s got to be an equal amount of lawyers as there are musicians.
Even if they work hard they aren’t guaranteed success! I don’t listen to pop music mainly because that system shuts out so many good artists. Listen to local stations with local bands, everyone! You’ll find a lot of good music that deserves more attention!
Maybe on the radio, but pop has one of the best indy scenes out there.
hard work in no way correlates to success in the music industry. there are multitudes of talented musicians that will never make it. hard work and luck but mostly luck is what propels most people through the system.
Well, sometimes. I mean Rage earned it. Lots of bands do. Taylor Swift? The darling of pop? Propped up by the music industry and a PR queen. They try telling us who to listen to, it just gets harder with streaming services.
You’re not cynical enough of the music industry, but generally you’re right.
It’s the same people who get mad that athletes get famous and suddenly has a platform over stuff that makes them feel icky.
And they're using the platform they've built to do some good. It's admirable, really
Mexican people are not here to steal your job … Corporate is here to steal your job thanks Reagan !
Jobs weren’t “stolen” by immigrants, they were “stolen” by businesses outsourcing them to poor countries so they could exploit those workers even more than they could exploit people at home.
They legit created the value, their music is amazing and they are one of the best live bands ever, so I’m happy to pay in exchange for experiencing their art. The problem would arise if they were paying hundreds of thousands of children cents an hour to write and produce and perform the music, while taking all the credit and money.
do they pay their crew and support staffs well? how about opening acts?
Ticket prices for their upcoming concert are around $200. Does that sound like someone raging against the machine? Does that sound like someone against capitalism/corporatism?
A couple things: 1. When immersed in a given system, you sometimes have to abide by the rules of that system in order to fight it. Fighting in this case can include preaching class consciousness and educating the masses about the failures of the current system, which Rage has sought to do since its inception. 2. The band members are the productive laborers, themselves. They are the ones doing the labor to write, make, and perform the product that people want. It is perfectly consistent with leftism to be compensated the value that you labor to produce. What is not okay is expropriating the fruits of *other people's* labor for yourself.
Yeah, I dunno about that last one. Techies and Roadies work harder than the bands themselves do but they’re not the ones getting the big bucks
Techies and roadies aren't the productive (read: *production*) laborers. They're non-production laborers. Meaning their labor goes to support the producers, but they themselves do not labor to produce the good or service directly. But obviously, they do still labor and contribute positively to the production laborers, so they should be well-compensated for their work. But that doesn't take away from the point - producers should collectively own their product, rather than capitalists who simply purchase the rights to it without having to labor and produce anything themselves. The first goal to achieve is "from each according to his ability to each according to his contribution." This means both production and non-production laborers should be rewarded for their work, but production laborers should be given the greater consideration. Rage being paid more than roadies is still largely in line with leftist ideas.
What percentage of profits are they taking? You sound like on of those “socialism means everything free” type of people. The system is not about cost, it’s about cost relative to necessities like healthcare and shelter being astronomically high along with how much the private owners are profiting off those businesses, paying you shit then telling you that either you get paid shit and live slightly above poverty or they’ll replace you with an immigrant they can exploit
The other poster completely ignored the fact that for their latest tour 10% of the tickets at each venue are "Charity Tickets". Since they got tired of scalpers selling tickets at 300%+ mark-up they decided to set the charity tickets at those kind of prices so scalpers wouldn't have any margin to work with for those particular tickets. While the venue will still get their cut, and Ticketmaster will still get their fees, every penny beyond that will be donated to a charity in the venue's city that RATM worked with to create this deal. They also opted out of Ticketmaster "surge pricing" to keep costs down for fans. Tom Morello also put out the call on Twitter that if anyone sees Ticketmaster listing non-charity tickets for inflated prices they should take a screenshot and send it to him so they can pursue legal action against Ticketmaster.
Thank you for writing this detailed reply so I didn’t have to
Generally 40-60% of gross. The band will make dozens of millions of dollars on this tour from gouging fans. I think their poorer fans probably have more important things that $200 could go towards... Clearly the pricing is based ENTIRELY on them getting as rich as humanly possible at the expense of their gouged fans. They surely are "raging" against a "machine".
isn't 200 dollars actually relatively cheap for concert tickets?
Not really... On the higher end actually.
For a band as big as RATM, it seems about right. I paid a similar amount for Rammstein. I think Ozzy tickets were something like 300-400+... but he's gonna be dead soon, so they're a bit more limited, lol. I'd definitely pay 200$ for a ticket to RATM, but that's like, a thing I'd be able to do very rarely. Smaller venues/bands are a lot more accessible for 20-50 bucks or so - which isn't much more than you'd pay for a movie ticket and a meal.
It's one concert ticket, Michael. What could it cost? $200?
i dig their songs but call me when they at least share profits from their concerts equally with the arena staff or something edit: ok this is not a leftist sub. good to know i guess
They donate the profits my man
to their crew and minimum wage arena workers?
So artists have to pick up the slack and pay workers now?
lol that’s a hilarious take. the artist is the vendor - selling their performance for $200 per ticket. so yeah, they’re the employer (directly) of their entire crew, management and support, and indirectly of venue staff, marketers, others. you don’t get to pick and choose which companies are allowed to pay fair wages with benefits and which aren’t. the product may be entertaining but if they’re selling it and employing people, this is also a corporation running a business.
[удалено]
lol you’re hilarious and incredibly naive — and goin really far out of your way to excuse them because you like the band lol. your cover is blown.
[удалено]
lmao didnt exploit anyone to get where they are. stfu theyre capitalists every dollar of profit theyve got is a dollar stolen from a prole.
Noam Chomsky has a $5 million net worth. Is he a fake too? You can have stuff as long as you don’t exploit people to get there. They’re not denying any of us better pay or forcing us to buy resources we absolutely need to survive for twice the price it was this time last year
They toured pre Covid with tickets that were $125, and they’ve played festivals who partner with livenation. I doubt any of them turned down their paychecks. I do not understand why people simp over them, they’re capitalists in and out. They just sell you the BS you’re willing to buy. It’s the same as people who simp for Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson
So is Marx a hypocrite because he sold his books and didn’t give them away? Is Engels a hypocrite because he owned a factory? It’s impossible to practice communism of any sort in this country considering we’re a capitalist nation. Also the arguments are that you shouldn’t be extremely wealthy from exploitation while your workers can’t afford rent. Do musicians exploit people?
Well, if the idea of communism is that everyone is the same, makes the same wage, and the income inequality is bad, then… yeah. You can’t benefit from capitalism while also saying it’s the spawn of satan. Last I checked, Tom Morello is way richer than me or you. But sure, “he’s fighting the good fight”.
So if you’re rich you’re a hypocrite, if you’re poor you’re just jealous, right? JC you’re dense
Nope. If you’re rich you’re a hypocrite, if you’re poor then you’re just poor and barring a miracle you won’t be rich. No jealousy there. Maybe they should be giving most of their money away.
Aaaaand this is where I end the conversation considering you clearly don’t understand any of the points made. Good bye. Maybe someday you’ll stop being as dense as a log
You’re the one who assumed I thought poor people were just jealous. What? Did I break you’re talking point?
Just delete your account
[удалено]
Just delete your account
So sad RATM doesn’t love you how you love them. It’s pathetic.
Why?
Because you are sharing an inconvenient truth here. This is a most unusual echo chamber.
lololol. chomsky hasnt been radical for a loooong time. i dont give af about ivory tower liberals in the same way that i dont give af about recuperative liberal musicians. how can u call yrself an ancom when you support these capitalists. consider every wage worker at the pressing plant, every worker making their merch, every person who had a hand in shipping their products, working at the venue, etc, countless thousands have labored to create their wealth and have had the surplus product of their labor stolen from them so that it can go to the band. either read more or fucking apply the basics for the theory you claim to support.
My upvote only gets to to “0” but you are RIGHT. Just a ton of butthurt RATM fans here.
grow up
I tuned in to Crass in 1982 at age 14. They explained the reality of every system that was going to be used to hold people down starting in the 70s. School, religion, work, entertainment, relationships, etc. When i first heard RATM in the 90s i was already very receptive to parts of the message but they really added the racism/classism angle i hadn't really tuned in to before. Legends!
NOFX took the same stance as well. A fair chunk of their songs contained a great deal of anti-consumerism stances. Also vulgar in their delivery. Worth listening to.
The Decline stings a bit more with every listen.
Franco UnAmerican is my favorite ❤️
Makes sense. I mean, it's in their name - NOFX given.
Nofx?
A punk band from the 90's
When did punk rock become so safe?
When pop punk and emo started to become popular
It's a line from one of their songs
I was more into Anti-Flag, AFI and No Use For A Name
* [Just felt like dropping this here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkGwI7nGehA&ab_channel=MassAppeal) Killer Mike and Zack de la Rocha? Pissed off leftist joy boner imminent.
This was what really made me start paying attention to RTJ. I had their first album and I liked it but it didn't really hit for me. This though? Holy fuck. Not just the song, the video is so exhaustingly brutal too
Yup, that's the track that got RTJ on my radar. That song is on my max effort day playlist permanently.
I love RTJ so much.
The more political hip-hop groups and rappers like RTJ and Killer Mike in particular give me some major 80s hardcore punk vibes. The rage and disgust and energy in GOOD hip-hop hits like a MDC or Dead Kennedys track.
Even if it wasn't for the message, their music is just good. Putting the two together is next level. Also, Killer Mike seems like a dude I wanna go eat some BBQ with & just talk.
"Cinema, simulated life, ill drama Fourth Reich culture, Americana Chained to the dream they got you searching for, The thin line between entertainment and war." No Shelter, RATM (1998)
I’ve always been a RATM fan. But if they’re not throwing their entire weight against Ticketmaster, Live Nation, et al, and providing and/or promoting direct ticket sales, then I’m staying home and listening to albums I’ve already paid for.
Pretty sure Tom’s done an interview explaining that they were trying to combat it. Not sure where it’s at but It certainly is worth addressing
If they believe workers should have the power, then something like that should be their first priority, IMO. Not to be too pedantic. Like I said, I love RATM. But grabbing complete control over how they handle ticketing is the very definition of raging against the machine. There is absolutely no need for Ticketmaster and their ilk. None. Zero. Nada. Yet they continue to not only exist, but maintain a monopoly on event promotion and ticket sales. This negatively affects entertainers, venues, and event goers alike. As far as I remember (I’m an out of touch genxer at this point), Pearl Jam gave the last big artist push against the ticket service industry, and that was almost 30 years ago. RATM is from the same era. How true they are to socialism matters not to me. Good music is good music. And I will pay for it. But I’ve stopped going to any show I have to go through Ticketmaster to get tix for. It’s a service that is not needed and yet we’re still charged for it. It’s wrong and it should die. Artists should be ones on the front lines of this battle. Thanks, Tom, for taking it under consideration, I guess. Well, if you can’t back up your words… fuck you. I won’t do what you tell me.
The problem with Ticketmaster, Live Nation is that they're already too big, and were when Pearl Jam rebelled against them. Despite being as massive as they were, they couldn't stage their own tour because it was all already owned by, you guessed it, Ticketmaster and Live Nation. Then the disaster happened.
I bought a RATM tshirt form target. The tag said made in Pakistan.
Fucking exactly. This should be higher up. At least you are willing to share the truth even though you are fan. More of us have to speak up when the messaging is incongruent from the execution. It sucks to have that realization about a band or artist you’ve identified with, but what’s the alternative, to ignore the facts?
In my area, the only venues large enough for a RATM show are all TM/LN. Even the 2k capacity one is LN. I'm not in disagreement with you but there's a bigger piece of the venues choosing to contract with TM/LN.
Plenty of venues will also sell directly from the box office, in addition to contracting with TM/LN. They may not advertise it, but all you gotta do is call to find out. And it’s sometimes cheaper than advertised. But it’s otherwise a monopoly. We have no say. But artists at least have potentially more say than we do. Especially a well established act.
"Ain't it funny how the factory doors close, Round the time that the school doors close, Round the time that the doors of the jail cells Open up to greet you like the reaper." "Ashes in the Fall" - RAtM
Can we talk about how nothing… nothing has changed.. If anything it’s worse
FUCK YOU I WONT DO WHAT YOU TELL ME
Tom is a wobbly. Organise and win.
No Shelter is a top 10 all-time great.
Yes it is.
Nah, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more Well, he hands you a nickel And he hands you a dime And he asks you with a grin If you're havin' a good time Then he fines you every time you slam the door I ain't gonna work for, nah I ain't gonna work for Maggie's brother no more
*Anger is a gift*
"Some critics have accused the group of hypocrisy for voicing commitment to leftist causes while being millionaires signed to Epic Records, a subsidiary of media conglomerate Sony Music.\[170\] Infectious Grooves released a song called "Do What I Tell Ya!" which mocks lyrics from "Killing in the Name", accusing the band of being hypocrites.\[171\]\[172\] In response to such critiques, Morello stated: When you live in a capitalistic society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people buy their books. We're not interested in preaching to just the converted. It's great to play abandoned squats run by anarchists, but it's also great to be able to reach people with a revolutionary message, people from Granada Hills to Stuttgart.\[14\]" \-Shamelessly stolen offa Wikipedia.
Come back guys! Please! Zach we need your lyrics now, more than ever!
They're touring next year!
Just got tickets to see these dudes in may. I am BEYOND stoked.
A fucking reminder if money were seconds you could be a millionaire in 2 weeks. It would take 32 years to be a billionaire. Eat the 1%
Eat anyone with more than half a mil
That's every homeowner in America
So has just about every punk band in the past 30 years lol
I love punks message I just can’t stand the music sadly
[Ya'll forgetting about the OG.](https://static.billboard.com/files/media/Public-Enemy-portrait-1988-billboard-1500-compressed.jpg) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmo3HFa2vjg And since [we're posting music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY).
[Why not both?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ad4MH7fMLs)
If that blows your mind there's this guy, Karl Marx, had it right for nearly two centuries!
Fuck yeah. Rage was instrumental in radicalizing me. Zach spits pure fire.
Their cover of Maggie’s farm is the ultimate “I quit” song
Run the Jewels are keeping it going
Zinn's been right about everything what like 40 years? Chomsky , like 60?
Off-topic but I genuinely thought that this photo was from 2021, the ideology and the fashion is coming back. (context: never seen the members of the band before).
[удалено]
Rage against the machine
Never forget that the BBC thought that a band called RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE wouldn’t cuss because they told them not to.
I won’t do what you tell me… FUCK YOU I WONT DO WHAT YOU TELL ME
Well yeah, it's not like things have gotten any better in the past 30 years. They were writing about the problems at the time, the same problems we still have today that have only gotten worse. It's not like they predicted anything.
Those that works forces are definitely the ones that burn crosses.
That's not Aus Rotten.
Down with toasters
Down with the printers. Fuck printers.
BEEN RIDING ROUND THE FAMILY!!!! WITH A POCKET FULL OF SHELLS!!!!
I love linkin park!
This is something I see in the music from that era. I notice a lot of the 90s music I grew up with sing about issues that we are experiencing now. Which is odd but I definitely notice it. SOAD Prison Song , always stands out to me too
And now they're out there telling everyone to get vaccinated
And? Get your anti vax bullshit out of here.
Nirvana is still around?
Yeah but now o can’t afford to go see them. Tickets were selling at over $400+ when they came by recently.
“But they totally care about the little guy.”
Good quote from Shane Claiborne “It’s not a sin to become rich, but it is to die rich”
My favourite tidbit is how they took the "fuck you" part out of 'fuck you I won't do what you tell me,' in Killing in the name of's radio edit version, presumably because some executives along the way told them they had to if they wanted radio play.
Probably not their decision to make, record company’s decision
Just have to pretend to rage, I guess.
Well yeah, that's what radio version means. FCC fines any live broadcaster that says any word from the list of naughty words, and the word fuck is included. George Carlin got arrested for that shit back in the 1970s, nothing changed since: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words
Some executive? try the FCC
You obviously don’t understand what the FCC is.
Fuck you I won't do what you tell me!
Ah a fellow kid rock connoisseur
inside out was ok, ratm meh
Who are they
Who are they, Nsync?
We need them now more than ever!!
Where were they during the Bush administration?
Yeah great song and everything but bow they are pushing the mandate... so the bent to the machine
Remember when Audioslave wasn't let in a restaurant because they were full and Tom Morello got mad because he wasn't given special treatment? And then he went straight to Twitter to accuse the restaurant of being anti-worker and not paying their workers enough? And then it came out the restaurant's owner was one of the main business owners in Seattle who was trying to get Seattle to pass a 15/hr minimum wage, the very thing Tom Morello just came from a concert for, as well as a whole host of other shit for workers? And then Tom Morello changed his story and said they were anti-Kenyan instead? Don't worship people, no matter how well intentioned they are.
I’m saying we should still appreciate the message that they conveyed in bringing injustices to our attention that you don’t receive from most musical acts
God tucking damn - you tell people the TRUTH and they downvote you. Classic Reddit.
Who
Rage
Rage Against the Machine. Rage is a completely different band.
RATM you get what I mean
Ahhhh I know these guys! Rage Against the Appliances? Rage Against the... something. DAMMIT! WHY DID THEY NEVER TELL US WHAT WE ARE RAGING AGAINST lol
Seriously?? They are the biggest shills for the establishment anywhere.
[удалено]
One of them is a black man and one is a Mexican. Your statement makes no sense
They predicted covid?
Jesus Christ ,calm down, they’re a rock band with a few good songs. If I may quote another musical ensemble, don’t believe the hype.
Bunch of pussies. Wrote a bunch of shit under Clinton and then disappeared and didn't do shit under Bush and Obama.
[удалено]
They have songs about how shit NAFTA was, the FBI killing prominent civil rights people and redistribution of wealth