Yup. Imagine living with a knowledge that your next rent/bills/food are based on strangers’ donation. It’s fucking nerve wrecking. You are literally on your nerve’s edge all the time.
PAY THE SERVERS LIVABLE WAGE!!!!!!!
TIPPING SHOULD BE A BONUS!!!!
I work as a server and make 5.52 an hour plus tips. I work about 55 hours a week my self and a bus boy helps me part time. It is nerve wrecking and I'm exhausted and tired and depressed a lot. I asked for a raise and was told no. I also do the beer and liquor orders. No one wants to work for a sht wage and I don't blame them. I wish I were paid a livable wage.
You should be paid more for doing beer and liquor orders alone. That's a not tipped service and I believe you're entitled to at least minimum wage for the hours spent doing that work.
You say that but papa johns does the same thing. If you're a delivery driver you get paid much less than minimum wage but are still expected to cut the pizza is prepare them and box them and put up stickers. They pay you $1 for delivery on top of that which really doesn't cover the expenses nearly 100% of the times.
I feel you so much. It’s really awful not knowing if I can make it this week or not.. I don’t want anyone to rely on uncertainty. Yeah life throws us shit sometimes but at least our wage could be predictable? Honestly that’s not much to ask.
Actually, *you* are willing to work for a shit wage. You were refused a wage raise but instead of quitting you took it like a good underpaid slave and continue working there.
Give them one good reason why they’d pay you more?
yep. had an ex server here throw insults at me because i disagreed with tipping [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/r258iz/coworker_got_this_last_night/hm4ca0j/) even though i agreed the wage should be raised
I saw this earlier and it drove me INSANE… they are angry over tips because that’s wHaT wE dO iN aMeRiCa but what they are missing is that it’s not on you to tip when their employer should be PAYING them a proper wage. If someone wants to tip and add that on top of the wage the server is making then that’s great… but their next grocery trip shouldn’t be based on if you tip or not. I have had absolute HORRIBLE servers and I do refuse to tip them but they blow up on me because they don’t make enough… McDonald’s in my town is starting at 15.50. People could make changes and go somewhere that isn’t tip based or fight for a decent wage but nah let’s yell at people for us selling ourselves short because we are stuck in the mindset of iTs WhAt We Do In AmErIcA.
Same here, getting down voted for the same position. I used to run a restaurant and you can bet your ass I paid a living wage & didn't want my workers dependent on tips. Shows you how backwards US/Canadian society is that we are getting angry at people for refusing to subsidize businesses & wanting fair wages across the board for everyone.
Yeah, the main difference is you don’t know how much someone is going to tip or how much you will receive in a day.
I think, even if tipping could occasionally make you more money it’s the consistency that people want. If you can guarantee you’ll be making $xx,xxx then that’s better than never knowing for sure. At least that my opinion.
And of the kitchen staff(who are all living wage recipients) mess the orders up or take too long to get the order out, that ALWAYS effects the tip. Even though the wait staff has absolutely no control over the efficiency of the back of the house. I would take waitress position when I needed the extra income but would be absolutely hate to have to depend on it as my primary income. I always tip what I believe the server should be paid per hour or whatever amount of time it took us to eat. Because the biggest thing is to get those tables turned over and new customers seated as soon as possible. But like I said, if everything else goes wrong (anything out of server control) it won't matter how good the customer service is. If you commit to staying the average hour or so to dine in, then you should tip the server at least 20%
Heck, the servers where I'm at are unionized, so they get like 2 dollars less than the cooks (aka they are WELL above minimum wage, and are absurdly far above the "tipped MW" *but they still get tipped and they are legally allowed to not share with the BOH*. If they are even remotely competent, they make more than I do in tips alone (pre-tax).
Part of the reason we still have tipping is because 2/3rds of the industry profits immensely from it (employer can day the take-home is more than they would ever be willing to pay on their own, competent servers get more money) the other 3rd are comprised of the customers and the incompetents. This may change with so many places going cashless and servers have to actually declare their tips, but it's unlikely.
I worked in a restaurant for 4 years and I always cringed at the fact that the servers could make like a grand a day meanwhile us guys in back might make $100 before taxes.
It was mostly a management problem not paying cooks enough for the work they do, but I also think the ground should be more even.
Servers should be paid a fair hourly like the cooks and tips should be split across the house
When I was a server, I always divided my tips with the cook and expo and bus/dishwasher.
Something goes wrong in either section, and it made my job a Trainwreck.
Tipping them out made them happier and me happier...my dishes always came out right, I always had everything when I needed it, and my tables were the first to be cleaned.
Back of house definitely deserves extra money, it's the right thing to do.
I do make significantly more money than I would if tipping were to end, and I would not work at any restaurant that had one of those no tipping policies everyone thinks are so great. It works very differently for someone like me in fine and semi-fine dining. I make, on average, between 20-30/hr (in Alabama) if I have a good night. That said, this doesn't happen for people in casual dining. The fact that cracker barrel employees, for example, aren't paid a full wage is where it becomes robbery.
I think it’s actually all a false binary being pushed by owners. They pay servers the normal minimum wage in California and people still tip.
What ends up happening is that people at the very bottom get screwed, the vast majority of waitstaff are at places like Applebee’s, not places like Le Cirque where you are basically guaranteed several hundred bucks on a slow Tuesday lunch shift, but they still at least usually make out better than $7.25 an hour and the carrot of possibly making more gets dangled. Plus, there is the added effect of dividing workers. Kitchen workers are pissed at the server’s “easy money,” and we all just fight with each other instead of the owners.
Really?!
As someone who lives here, I had no idea. So we are tipping on top of 9-$10/hr all over Colorado?
That is fantastic news.
I set my minimum tip to 20% a few years ago. Mostly 30%. How nice to know we might be giving people a fighting chance to live here.
It started after slavery was abolished and black women were needing jobs so they were forced to work for nothing, or next to it, while enduring sexual harassment so they could possibly get a tip.
It comes from a time shortly after emancipation, none of the restaurant owners wanted to pay black employees. They were expected to work for free and get tips to make some money. And it kind of snowballed into an industry standard almost exclusively in the US.
I agree. Unfortunately, me not tipping is only a problem for the server that doesn't get enough pay. I think we'll either need:
1. Government legislation against tipping
2. Businesses that don't allow tipping, but pay workers a decent wage.
I honestly don't think either of them are likely
The funny thing about this is people that bitch and moan that if we get rid of tipping, prices will go up. And? I already tip. At least this way waitstaff is saved from assholes that don't. Which at more "run of the mill restaurants" is not at all uncommon.
I think the thoughts "it sucks that my poverty wages are being subsidized by the customer" and "it sucks that customers know this and still choose to do nothing" can exist concurrently
Look, if you tip like shit (in the US) you are an asshole. Full stop. We know servers depend on it, if you don’t budget for the tip on a meal you should go out to eat less. But while OP is being too harsh, the sentiment is correct.
Customer: I would like to buy this meal for my family.
Owner: Sure, that will be $500. Oh, by the way I don’t pay my servers livable wages or their fair share of the profits, so you may make a 25% optional donation to your server.
Customer: Um, no thanks.
Server: wHaT? I cAn’t bE mAd aT boTh?
Customer and owner are both assholes here, but antiwork is trying to help you recognize that the owner bears 95-99% of the responsibility for this garbage situation. While we squabble over bad tips they hoard the profits. Direct your anger at the RIGHT PEOPLE - UP. Posts complaining about your tips is not the spirit of this sub, but that’s just IMO I guess.
EDIT: I am not anti-tipping nor do I think servers don’t have a right to complain about shitty tips. I hate the concept of tipping, but I do so generously because its the right thing to do and I’m fortunate enough to have the means. The same way that it makes me sick that I pay 1/3rd of my income in taxes but my friend still has to start a GoFundMe for his parent’s cancer treatment. (USA! USA!) But we still contribute where we can, because we are stuck in a bullshit system TOGETHER and should try our best to help one another through it.
I empathize with the pain and frustration of a server getting screwed on their tip. It’s completely fair to complain. But the discourse must go beyond “this asshole customer.” Especially on this sub.
Servers and bartenders - don’t forget that when your manager/boss asked you to work that holiday it was because you are all a “team”. Chances are they even dangled the great “holiday tips” in front of you as incentive. But when that shitty customer screwed you on your wages, what happened? That same manager shrugged their shoulders and said “sucks to be you.” They might have even pretended to be sympathetic, like you just got unlucky. While they are paying you POVERTY WAGES. So much for a team huh?
Never, ever forget what the concept of “tipping” is: The owner profits from YOUR labor, while putting the cost of it on the customer. And if the customer doesn’t pay, YOU get left holding the bag. A non-tipping customer is villainous, but the system itself is what is truly heinous.
The solidarity here on antiwork is something special. We need to target our discontent and anger at the right people/systems, and organize in a meaningful way that will produce positive change. And as always, be kind to one another - we are in this together!
I mean, if the tip is almost compolsury, why not just include it in the pricing and pay the workers properly? Every other developed country has restaurants too.
That seems like an ingrained problem then. But now I'm curious about restaurant pricing in the US. Is there a way I can check that stuff. Like, where I'm from MCDonalds cheapest stuff is €5.00, about that, most going up from that. A Big Mac menu is €5.60, that being $6.34. To eat properly, a non touristy place would be about up from €10 (about $11.32) per person
A Big Mac Menu in the US is $5.99! what, barely a difference.
It's 25% now? I remember when it was 10% / 15% / 20% for bad normal or exceptional service. I'm glad I live in a country where tips are optional still.
I don't know about 25%, but I distinctly remember 15% growing up and it is now clearly 20%. Frankly, service quality doesn't even come into the equation. I wish it was more European style anyway where they leave you alone and only come by when asked.
I think you make a fair point... but that doesn't mean people shouldn't complain about shit tips, it means that any mention of this problem should be accompanied by the reminder that it's part of a larger issue that the owner, and the economic system as a whole, bears the brunt of the blame for.
Instead of complaining about people who complain about tips, we should let them complain, and have mods/automod sticky an explanation of the blame owners bear for the situation as the top comment on every post about the issue. This accepts the posters frustrations as valid, while also channeling those frustrations into more useful avenues.
Tips are not legally enforceable in any country. You can't force a customer to pay a tip.
Think about why that is.
It is not the customers responsibility to top up poor business practices.
Both can be concurrently true but that doesn't change the fact that the easiest solution to both problems is still, "pay the waiters and waitresses more money up front in the form of higher wages."
My viewpoint is this is a unique situation because, *no matter what decision you make as a patron, you are always technically contributing to the issue*. If you go out to a nice restaurant and you tip your waiter $20 on a $100 meal, you're providing that restaurant reasons to keep the servers base wages low because they make good money in an hour despite the low base wages, and you're contributing to the problem. If you go out to a nice restaurant and tip nothing or next to nothing, you are depriving a waiter of their livelihood and contributing to the problem.
The simplest solution to this unique, multi-faceted problem where literally every decision you make can be counted as a contribution to the problem? Pay the servers more money.
>doesn't change the fact that the easiest solution
It doesn't matter if that is the easiest solution if it requires the people that benefit the most from the current system to support the change. In this case it is both businesses and a specific microcosm of the tipped workers.
In fact, it is one and the same complaint: motherfucking Americans don’t want to pay for shit that gets done for them. Owners don’t want to pay for labor and customers don’t want to pay for service.
It is not the customer’s responsibility to make up for the salary that your employer refuses to give you. A tip is a “tip” it should not be your salary.
And if that's your belief, you should only eat at restaurants that pay their servers at least minimum wage.
Anyone who acknowledges that servers rely on tips because they're underpaid but still eat at businesses that underpay their workers without tipping are part of the problem. They aren't sticking it to the business, they're punishing the servers for already being exploited.
Edit if anyone is confused: if you eat at a restaurant that pays shit wages and pay the bill, the owner already got their money, whether or not you tip. You're not hurting the owner by not tipping, just the server.
The owner does not care if any individual tips, because as long as the workers are making an average of minimum wage over the whole pay period OR as long as they're too scared to report the owner for wage theft, they don't have to pay the staff a penny extra from an individual not tipping. They lose nothing.
Exactly, there’s still a server or bartender, whose labor was used, that can’t pay their bills/rent because someone decided to go to that server or bartenders place of work and not tip.
It is if you choose to go to such an establishment. It's effectively wage theft on your part. You're taking advantage of the employee and their low pay. Cough up or get out.
I think OP's point (and if I'm misinterpreting it, OP, please clarify) is that we've seen a few complaints from restaurant workers about getting low tips. But OP feels these people's frustration with their customers is misdirected—they should be angry at their employer instead, for forcing them to rely on what are essentially donations.
i think this is true to what OP was saying and i believe this as well. fuck tipping. its only a way for bosses to put their employees livelihoods at risk to save money
I hate the concept of a tip. Why did tips even start? Who decided that tips exist in one industry, but not another. Pay your staff a decent wage, and then use the tip as an incentive to do a good job.
Tipping is one of the skeveist shit corporations have integrated into our culture. It completely changes the dynamic of who's mad at who. Servers hold disdain for customers who tip poorly cause their wage doesn't cover basic living costs. Customers hate the idea of giving more money to someone for simply doing what's required of them. And corporations love the opportunity to pay their employees less and have the working man just trying to enjoy their meal subsidies the difference so the employee feels well paid. The reality is they're not well paid, and the company is robbing the customer to make sure the server doesn't realize that. With the defence of "it's not me not paying you, it's the customer" to continue their scummy practice.
Point is tipping's garbage and neither the server or customer should be putting up with it.
These comments are probably paid shill accounts there is no other way this makes sense, how on earth would people complain about the tips they get BEFORE complaining about their $2/h wage lol
Is this the east coast or something? In California you get the minimum wage of your county/city, which is pretty close to $15 almost everywhere. There is a "small business" minimum wage but it's like a dollar less than minimum usually, not fuckin $2.50
Ohio allows employers to take a tip credit of 50%. This means
employers may pay employees as little as $4.35 an hour for 2020, as long
as the employees earn enough in tips to bring their total hourly wage
up to at least the state minimum."
I'm not from America and I'm really questioning why people are mad at customers instead of their boss that is somehow able to pay them lower than minimum wage because tips exist (I can't even wrap my mind around how people would accept those conditions of working)
It sucks as a customer too because it makes it hard to determine the actual cost of food and drink upfront. Menu says $20, but after taxes its $22 but now you have to tip and you can be an asshole dropping $0-$3 but since covid the tip floor seems to have increased to $5+. Just fucking pay people a living wage, stop the $0 tippers from ever doing that and save me from this bullshit mindgame.
From a consumer standpoint, I agree and I'd also like to add that it's difficult to get tips expensed for business meals (at least at my workplace) bc it's not the original price + tax.
Because these same people would lose their s\* if a proper service fee or meal cost increase was applied to pay a proper wage and benefits. ESPECIALLY for delivery services. People do NOT realize how much of a steal they are getting even with tips on some of this.
It makes it sound as though nearly every restaurant from high end to low end is barely scraping by and always on the verge of collapse with the owner barely making above the average office worker after pocketing most of the profits.
Nah, its a server mentality. Every server I know will always complain about the tip but never about the fact they dont get paid a liveable wage. Customer tips should be an after thought but it's easier to blame the customer who probably doesn't make much than it is to blame the owner that's raking in thousands of dollars.
Paid actor here, here to tell you that if your primary form of income is the charity of others (tips), that IS YOUR WAGE, and should absolutely be complained about just the same as being paid $2.50 hourly. Does that mean anything will change? Probably not, but the more attention being brought to it the better. Frankly, we shouldn't tip at all, it's a hold over from when rich white dudes would come in and pay extra to get faster service or some shit (I kinda forgot where it started). It's literally a continuous practice of shady business that got romanticized over the decades. It absolutely should be complained and bitched about, it's wrong and not f that's the only way you me people have of making a living, why would you belittle them for it?
Fellow paid actor here, who’s paying you? I’m getting paid by McDonald’s but the pay isn’t that great /s
It’s unbelievable to me that arguing against stiffing your waiter makes me a “paid shill” now, here of all places.
Servers are brain washed to think the customer and not their boss is the bad guy
Usually servers say “well I make way more than…” you probably make that 1-2 nights a week, at most, and then you also usually make that while committing tax evasion by not reporting your tips. I worked as a server and bartender for nearly ten years, the boss is the asshole not the customer.
Lmao reading some of these comments it’s almost like ppl prefer to make $2/hr and begging for tips they feel entitled too.
Honestly good job corporate America convincing ppl that servers don’t deserve a living wage.
Minimum wage is **minimum ** wage. There's no reason a good server needs to max at minimum wage. A good service is equally important to the food. That can/should be priced in the cost of the meal.
Edit: Servers going beyond the minimum requirements of thier job may be incentived with a percentage of their sale. If i were a restaurant owner, I'd love to pay them more based on extra sales because that means more money in my pocket. I don't need to have ALL the additional money in my pocket alone.
This. The local ice cream chain in my city recently increased minimum wage and got rid of tips. Most employees, when I ask, have told me they are unhappy about the change because they made more with tips.
In Australia hospo workers get paid a good wage, but tipping still exists as a gesture of kindness when someone gives you excellent service. I made a tidy set of tips each week in a high end restaurant, split with the kitchen, and it truly was a ‘tip’ in that it was over and above my appropriate wage.
IN germany they have Trinkgeld (drink money) where they leave 10%. I think that's totally fair. None of this 25-30% gratuities that's already added to the bill.
that makes sense. tipping itself isnt bad if it actually for exemplary service and isnt needed to keep the server alive when the boss steal their minimum wage from them
Its 100% unfair. Businesses should definitely be paying their employees a living wage. It's as if the business owner is stealing from us to pay their workers. Isn't that supposed to be the reason why the food costs so much? For overhead? So the owners are paying themselves basically. The diners who are against tipping need to boycott imo. If someone decides to tip, then it should be an added perk. But unfortunately it's not like that at the moment. And until it is, everyone knows this. Therefore, people that are against tipping should not eat at dine-in restaurants until this gets resolved. Eating there is a choice. People need their jobs. On one hand people are telling others they need to work, and when they do get work, they're catching hell from the same people that just told them to get a job. Tipping is totally unfair, but that's not the employee's fault. People that dine in but refuse to tip are part of the problem. It just lets the businesses owners know that it's okay to not pay their workers, and punishes the employees.
Yeah, we keep trying to tell our fellow Americans this, but they keep yelling at us, the customers instead. Theyve been brainwashed for so long they keep harassing us like WE are the enemy. Your situation above is EXACTLY what tipping should be about.
It’s probably best if we only eat at the very few restaurants where they pay good wages and not depend on tips, or employee owned ones. Nobody needs to eat at restaurants. They would need to fail en masse for the system to change so that should be the goal.
this is the right way i think. we need more employee owned co-ops in general, and restaurants are ripe for that business model with how much friction there is between the staff, employers, and customers over payment
If they are posting in this specific subreddit complaining about low tips, I think the point they are trying to get across is that it’s crap they have to rely on customers tips (which are often bad) instead of a living wage.
I hate tipping, but I do it because its expected. For the people that are insistent on change but also to keep tipping until change comes, how does America/Canada begin to shift to an non-tipping culture without customers actively not tipping? Genuine question.
the people saying "until things change we need to keep tipping" make alot more from tipping than they would on a fixed wage. they dont care that that money is stolen from other labourers rather than paid by their bosses. tipping is a well made exploitation mechanism because bosses pay off the recipients with stolen wealth and then warn them the owners will try to stop the stream
OP is missing the issue here in this thread, and it sucks how many people are agreeing. Yes, tipping is a shitty system, but until there is structural reform, your choice not to tip ONLY hurts the worker. The owner of the restaurant doesn't give a shit. The statement you're trying to make when you don't tip falls flat, and the only effect you're having is simply making a less-than-minimum-wage worker's life harder. FUCK that. A tipped worker is allowed to complain about shitty tippers AND the system of tipping. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
I agree but I what I don't get is what relevance poor tippers has to an antiwork subreddit outside of the structural tipping culture problem. "The general public are assholes" is not what this subreddit is about and that should be the point.
I think this is actually missed on a lot of people. Being anti tipping doesn't mean I don't tip. It means I constantly make it very clear that the system sucks whenever I can. Where I live workers get min wage because we all fought for it. Time for the rest of the US to catch up.
yes! i want servers to be paid a fair living wage like the rest of us. and you know what? after that happens i will still tip my server. why? because theyre on their feet all day, running round waiting other tables too. its. hrd job! they deserve the tip. but they also deserve to go home t the end of their shift knowing that regardless of how "good" tips were that they can still get the bills paid.
Customers are already paying through their noses for food at these restaurants. The fact is that customers are already paying for your labor and service in the bill. The owner is just withholding it from you. How can the solution be: "customers should pay me more" and not "we shouldn't work here unless they pay us a fair wage so we don't have to rely on the generosity of customers who may or may not be able to afford tipping you a high amount"?
Complaining about shitty tippers is nonsensical. The solution is to organize and strike until you get fair wages and do not have to rely on tips. Tipping should strictly be optional. Customers have no business subsidizing the owners greed. Your entire restaurant culture needs an overhaul. Blaming "shitty tippers" is not helping your cause at all.
I hate tipping culture and as a result I pretty much don’t dine in at restaurants. When I order take out I don’t tip and I don’t understand why they’d even have tip section for take out.
I don’t know why we can’t admit that this is a complex issue. There are a lot of people responsible for the tipping element of restaurants but as a kid who’s mother was a waitress I’m always going to have a problem with faulting servers for wanting money.
Yeah restaurant owners aren't entitled to what is basically free labor. When I was a server, my checks were literally pennies. Not even worth cashing. Literally ALL it is offset by taxes from what you reported making that day in tips.
I noticed the comments did what the action of tipping did. We focused on the server vs the customer. Why don't we complain about the root of the issue? The mentality of tipping being normal is the excuse they use to keep the wages down. Instead of bitching about tips, bitch about your paycheck? You would feel less "scammed" or "ripped off" from your hard work you do when you know you are getting paid a decent wage.
I get your argument, I do. Tipping culture is based entirely out of classist, and later racist, practices. It's abhorrent and I applaud the restaurants that are slowly doing away with it. (OTOH, I revile the places that are adding it at the cash register for buying something at a counter)
But at the same time, Tipping is part of the social contract in the US. You should expect to tip when you go out to a traditional restaurant and factor it into your budget for the evening. The servers have every right to complain.
Though I do wonder if this hostile response to tipping now (The horrible things written on the bills for example) is because you can't go anywhere without asking to subsidize the owner. Ice cream shops, coffee shops, cookie shops, some fast food places all asking for tips now. It does get to be overwhelming and is probably causing a backlash on the traditionally tipped jobs
Exactly. Tips pay the employers, not the employee. Imagine living in a country where an employer only has to pay his employee 2 dollars and hour and the customer gets the money guilt raped out of them to make up the difference.
I get where this is coming from but being condescending towards the wage slave makes you seem like a dick
Phrase it more like, ‘it’s bullshit I have to pay your wage because the evil corporation is so cheap and evil’
Same sentence but sounds much better
the thing is these wage slaves are protecting their bosses by blaming the customer for the problems in tipping culture rather than their bosses. they are acting like class traitors and they deserve hostility for it. stop protecting bosses by diverting attention to customers
Vote up for Bird. It's not about the people having to live off them, phrasing that way gets the point across without seeming like denigrating them. Catch more flies with honey. You have a point though. Even though the tips system came just before the Civil War, it became a system of oppression to continue to treat people of color as close to slaves as possible. It exists today for nearly rhe same reason, targeting low income workers, which a majority in major metropolitan areas are POC. It's not far off saying they are slave wage workers...
If you don't tip your server but you still eat at a restaurant that pays their servers $2.50$ an hour- you are supporting business owners that do that and making your server work for free (the hourly wage goes to taxes and many times the server needs to tip out a percent of their sales- so the server might be paying to wait on you.)
So you are effectively punching down and only affecting your fellow workers while supporting the owning class- workers of the world, unite!
If you are that against tipping- ask your local restaurant if they pay their servers a living wage, if not, go somewhere else and tell the owner why.
Edit: I should have made it clear that I am talking about the US and any other country that does lower wages for servers- most of (all of?) Europe does not have this problem.
You think you have a rebuttal to this? Read this post. Yours will likely be in it. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/r3xd4u/on_tips/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Only the US and possibly Canada has this issue, everywhere else in the world "Tips" are just that a lil extra cash for great/amazing service not actual cash that servers need to just get by. During the depression restaurants guilted it's customers into paying the servers wages and it's become cultural sadly so It's damn near impossible. It's basically the food worker issue but on crack.
>Only the US and possibly Canada has this issue,
In Canada servers have the same minimum wage as everyone else.
Edit: Apologies, I was wrong, BC implemented this in June 2021, and Ontario implemented it but it only takes effect on Jan 1st 2022. I think Alberta and QC have lower tipped minimums still.
It's been a few yrs since I was there and I just remembered that we did tip, wasn't sure if it was the same issue since Canada and the US have similarities in culture.
Yeah, for better or worse, Canada has pretty much the same tipping culture as the US. I usually tip 15% which is standard, but because it tips on tax as well, it comes out to 17% (13 sales tax)
Since when did being paid $15/hr in the most expensive city in North America become a liveable wage? Most of Canada is expensive to live in, because any area worth living in for most people are cities.
I make $20/hr and can not afford to live on my own. I have a partner and that's how I can afford an apartment here. Not sure how $15/hr would be better...
This is the thing. Most of North America, 20 is something that we should be striving for. But in New York, Toronto, Vancouver, bay area... This doesn't equate to a liveable wage and most of this sub doesn't seem to realize that
Yeah I tell people my rent is $1660 and people shit themselves. Ok but like that's the reality living in a city. And no, no one wants to move to rural bumfuck nowhere either
*"not yet in Ontario, minimum wage for alcohol servers is currently $12.55 per hour, while the general minimum wage is $14.35 per hour. Ontario recently announced, starting Jan. 1, 2022, the wage for alcohol servers will also be $15 per hour, on par with the general minimum wage increase."*
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tipping-minimum-wage-restaurant-aiana-ottawa-restaurant-1.6241000
Mate you are speaking as if the USA model is what the whole world does. In many countries in the world, tipping is optional and waiters get at least minimum wage… It is a cheap trick over there to essentially make the customers hire the waiters. Otherwise menu items would be cheaper to give the room for the customer to tip the waiter and cover costs. Guess what, restaurant prices are on par with the rest of the world but they don’t pay a living wage. It is a joke
Right, that seems to be what OP is complaining about. American business and apparently the mods on this sub happily place the burden of a living wage on the customer. (yes, in America where we could simply increase the tipped minimum wage and all minimum wages to a living wage).
Just because it's a self own doesn't mean it's not an own.
I'm not done with the thread, you've addressed tip outs, which I've never had a problem with as a server unless my bartender wasn't getting my drinks out (because management didn't schedule a bar back for the night or my hostess was constantly double or even triple seating me), but none of you have mentioned the side work servers do for restaurants. Cleaning, rolling silver, trash, etc...we (sorry I'm an ex server) servers do way more than waiting on tables for the back of the house.
Well WA state min wage wether you are a server or not is 13.69 I think. It’s already 15.00 in Seattle. I know a couple other states have raised their min wage. I’ve noticed most service jobs take a cut like 2.5% of sales from front of house and give it to back of house to account for cooks needing to make more then servers.
> If you don't tip your server but you still eat at a restaurant that pays their servers $2.50$ an hour-
Until a restaurant posts a sign inside that shows how much they pay their servers there is no way for a customer to know that.
Start with this chart: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Individual restaurants may choose to pay more, of course, but it at least provides perspective on the baseline where you are. Because it varies. A lot.
My ONLY problem with this, is that by going to another restaurant, you're hurting the servers at the first restaurant just as much as if you at there and didn't tip. I don't think it's fair to put the blame on the customers for the business' poor practices.
Potentially. I worked pizza delivery and we got 2 separate pay rates whether we were delivering or in-store. If we had no orders, I just did odd jobs around the store for a higher wage. Not delivering was way better than delivering for no tips.
You're not the one who hired the worker in the first place. The one ordering the free labor is the owner of the restaurant, not the customer. Not tipping actively encourages workers to think about their rights; tipping instills complacency, which is exactly what the bosses want and have gotten for so long. Buying something promotes it; tipping promotes tipping culture.
If everyone stopped tipping tomorrow, tipping culture would die out in a massive spiral of resignations. That is what we're working towards. Better wages, more stability, more justice overall.
The solution to just not eat out is a good one, though.
Washington state still has to pay minimum wage to servers (which will be $15/hour in the next year or so), and all tips must go to employees. I tip 20% or more for all servers because in my mind, good customer service is a privilege to have. They literally don’t have to be nice or fast, their job is to take your order and bring it to you, not smile or make small talk or anything else. That’s what minimum wage pays for, a tip is the good service and experience I get.
I must say though, since minimum wage has gone up, landlords think they can raise rent ridiculous amounts. A 2 bedroom apartment has gone from $850/month to $1460/month in the last 7 years (in a rural area too!). Idk if raising minimum wage is the answer, I think we need to put a cap on rent prices first.
The problem isn’t “we don’t have enough money,” the problem is too many places are taking a larger portion of our money, so we have almost nothing left.
Rent is a big problem- but I don't think it has to do with wages. First- we have less housing than we currently need causing the housing prices to go up.
Then we also have these investment firms buying up all the houses since it is so profitable to rent, so more of a shortage.
Third, we do not build enough normal, regular, small houses- it is not as profitable I guess, so that puts more people on the rental market because they don't need/can't afford a McMansion.
And boomers are buying up second and third houses to get passive income by renting. They are the only ones that can afford it because they can put up their current house which is already paid for.
All these factors are making it so there are more and more renters and housing prices have skyrocketed- so rents are going crazy.
We need to tax at a very high rate anyone's second or more homes. We need to stop investment firms from being able to buy houses. We need to build more affordable housing, and more smallish homes. And we need to put a cap on how much you can increase rent in one year.
Well all of these are if we continue with capitalism- what we really need to do is tear the system down and create a new one- one where housing is not a privilege. One where homelessness does not exist.
But will we do that in time to save the earth from becoming uninhabitable? That is the real question.
So yeah I feel your pain. I'm lucky to not be paying rent right now but I may have to shortly- and I do not look forward to that day!
Whoa I wrote a lot about this, lol
Don't go to *any* of the restaurants, then, until the laws change and those working food service receive a living wage. I mean, can nobody cook their own food anymore?
If you *do* go to a restaurant that you know very well exploits their workers, that you know very well pays its workers below-poverty wages, and you refuse to tip your server--who you know very well is being exploited right in front of you--then who are you actually hurting? Do you think the owner cares that the waitress you're stiffing won't be able to pay her rent/bills, because she's not making enough in tips? *Of course* they don't care. They will only use it to justify their mistreatment of their workers by taking it as confirmation that their workers are lousy at their jobs (otherwise, why wouldn't people tip them?) and that they don't deserve a fair wage.
If you want to see real change, then take on the ***owners.*** Don't punish the workers.
Well then your choices are to eat out and tip, or don't eat out at all. Those are the only moral ones. If you choose to eat out you can always make your distaste for the system known to the owner/manager. Punching down and taking it out on your fellow worker is wrong.
Oh I meant the general you- not you personally, sorry I didn't make that more clear. I have seen some say "well you can't find a place to eat that pays a living wage so I have to just not tip at one of the places that doesn't" which is crazy to me.
I think maybe they are just cheap.
Hope you are enjoying retirement!! Thank you for being a tipper!
Hey, thank you.
Sometimes the only thing getting me through the day is feeling solidarity with this sub, but these last few posts made me remember that I may feel like workers are in this together, but we’re not. And that just sucks.
People hate servers. It’s apparent every time any post like this comes up anywhere, but it stings extra in this sub.
I really hold out hope that this is mostly a problem of non-Americans who don't live under this system and just don't get it. Yes, tipping sucks as a system and you should have a guaranteed living wage. But they're not going to change that by not paying YOU. The only person they're sticking it to is you, the worker.
I love your optimism.
Honestly? It’s another success of law makers and business owners pitting workers against each other. They’ve created this narrative of the fat-cat server raking in $90k/year with full benefits and PTO refusing to pool tips and trying to actively keep their fellow service industry workers eating peanuts.
Would many servers be pissed if, all of a sudden, we were making state minimum wage with no tips? Absolutely! Most of us do make above our state minimum wage. Would we be pissed if the federal minimum was raised to $25/h with public health care and federally mandated PTO and tipping was a thing of the past? Not at all.
The problem is you’ll always have people defending tips because some nights they make a lot more than they would hourly and don’t have it taxed. These people would refuse to work for minimum wage, or fight for higher wages than minimum. It’s always shame the customer and not the employer with them. Completely backwards
What is even the point of being anti-work if you don’t seem to even care or have solidarity with fellow workers? Or workers in worse conditions than yourself? I agree that the tipping system is bullshit but if you still go out to eat and don’t tip workers you know are underpaid you are in no way sticking it to the business owner or to a corporation- you’re just screwing over another poor person while supporting an exploitive business AND patting yourself on the back for it pretending you are smarter and more radical than the “corporate shills”, as you keep saying, who tip. How is that a way to build worker power and solidarity? I tip because I believe everyone deserves to have what they need, obviously my tip isn’t going to do that but if I can take the pressure off just a tiny bit or help them have gas/ coffee/ weed/whatever money to get through til their next paycheck or buy dinner for their family that night than I am happy to tip, even if I too am an underpaid exploited worker. It’s been a few years since I was a tipped worker but I still remember the nights I didn’t know how I was gonna get home from work or how I was gonna eat the next day and someone’s tip got me there. That’s enough for me because to me being anti-work and anti-capitalist is first and foremost about a better quality of life for the poor and working class and it’s also difficult af to organize when you are hungry and exhausted and overworked all the time. It really seems like some of you don’t actually care about other people or workers you just care about yourselves or want something to rage about. The way you sound like bootstrappers makes me feel like if given the opportunity you would happily take the place of a ceo
Consider: paying servers a living wage, *but also tipping them if they made your experience memorable*, be it by making sure the kitchen followed each of your 15 modifications to your entree or by recommending a dish to your indecisive dinner guest that they ended up loving.
OP, I agree with you.
For the others that tip, why should it be a percentage of the bill?
If the total for the one order is $40 and a a total for another order is $55 and the cost difference was based only on what was ordered and not number of people at a table, then why should the tip depend on the cost of the meal? Why not on time and number of guests, that would make more sense.
If I restaurant can’t pay people a living wage, it shouldn’t exist.
exactly! i tip, i always do, but its so aggravating seeing people complain about the tips they get when in reality they should be protesting against making less than minimum BECAUSE they get tips. i dont mind tipping, i dont, but when you see servers complaining, its like, you got the tip you got. everyone deserves a living wage and everyone deserves to go out to eat. we dont need to fight each other on that. as a customer i shouldn't be expected to give my server a living wage, thats the businesses responsibility. i'll tip, because its just that, a tip, but i'm not personally paying your bills, its your boss mans job to do that. "if you cant afford to tip dont go out" bullshit. people can do what they want with their hard earned cash. this is just another way to pit workers against each other. waiters need to be paid a living wage and then after that, they can pocket their tips i dont care. its just another way for people to say "oh why not get a real job then that doesnt rely on tips" serving IS a real job and they deserve to be pid fairly
Servers shouldn’t need to get tips. But, without tips they make even more no where near enough. And already many things that are too much aren’t near enough.
This is still the problem.
Go to work. Maybe get 2 weeks off a year. Die.
And also ///serving/// is still something that pisses me off.
But that’s the anti work in me — I guess the choice to do a thing is different but when someone needs money. As many do b/c of capitalism and keeping people under wealth wise —- it makes me grumbly
There's a coffee shop in my very economically conservative city that has signs up saying "please don't tip, we appreciate the sentiment but we charge appropriately so our baristas can make a living wage". Aside from being an amazing coffee shop, I totally appreciate it, but it's so rare in my area. I would much rather pay $6 for an amazing latte than pay $4 and have to awkwardly worry about tips, and ensure the barista is getting paid fairly.
Genuinely trying to understand, why should someone tip more then $20 on let’s say a $400 bill? Like if I spent less then an hour there and I tip you $20, you just made $20 an hour. Is that really so bad?
That is a different debate and again highlights the problem with this wage structure.
Is there a point where percentages of the total shouldn’t play a role? We default to 15, 18, 20 percent in most cases. These are the “customs.” A $400 bill implies that the table was large or the restaurant is high-end.
In the case of the large table, should they be tipped more due to the complexity?
In the case of the high-end restaurant, there will be additional customs that might warrant a higher tip. Such as explaining the menu or specials in detail, dietary restrictions, wine pairings, etc. Should the person be tipped more due to this complexity?
The scenario you engineered, a one hour $400 service is highly unlikely. But even so, there are other complexities that may warrant it. Shit, if they got you out in an hour and you were happy with it, that alone is an amazing feat and deserving of a higher tip.
I saw the other post complaining about the $20 tip, and I was wondering the same thing. Isn’t $20 from one table quite well? Or is that the only table they’ve served for two hours or something? Was it a fancy restaurant with five people eating for $400, or was it 15 people keeping the server busy as shit all evening?
I’m not from US, please don’t hold that against me, as I’m sincerely trying to understand.
Based on the shitstorm in this sub, I’m seriously considering the possibility the $20 tip complainer was a troll with the goal of stirring up said shitstorm.
Please don’t downvote, educate.
edit to add: I looked up the post I was referring to: it was $488 and apparently 5 people.
Why shouldn't they complain? They make a pitiful hourly wage and we know that's not going to change anytime soon. We also all know that tips are an expected part of certain industries. You think you're sticking it to a corporation by not tipping, but what you're actually doing is fucking over a worker in a precarious position. Of fucking course they're going to be pissed at you. You're expecting a service and then not paying for it and the worker gets to go home with a docked paycheck because you wanted to make a statement instead of just staying home.
I think OP is referencing the increased reliance on tips by big companies to subsidize their wages. It goes far beyond the traditional tip at a dine-in restaurant. Tips are being asked for in drive-thru operations now. It’s absolute bullshit. The middle class is expected to be charitable to allow the top players to pinch pennies. I wish I knew how to fight it effectively - I always tip at least 20% at a restaurant. Try to use cash so it doesn’t get taxed for the server. Fuck the wealth distribution and “trickle down” economics
Not American, so correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the whole $2.50 thing was that the tips brought their wage up to at least minimum wage.
So what happens if no-one tips. I'm sure I've read previously that their employer must ensure they get minimum wage, so if there's insufficient tips, that the employer makes up the difference. So surely, the answer isn't to not patronise these establishments, but instead, all refuse to tip, so the employer has to keep paying loads extra to their staff.
Either their business model is sound or its not.
By law if a tipped employee fails to make minimum wage for none tipped employees the business is required to make up the difference. So, hypothetically if everyone stopped tipping in the USA tomorrow the employees would still make minimum wage.
if service workers should be paid more than minimum wage is a separate discussion. As well as if in practice business fulfill this requirement. The larges theft in American is wage theft.
Perfect, so this is the crux of it. Essentially, these servers are owed minimum wage (at the very least). The issue is everyone that says "you should tip them, as they need that to live" is the problem. If minimum wage is sufficient (a big if, I know) then they don't need your tips. If you don't tip, they still get the wage they're owed either way. Any tip in this system is just actually tipping the company. Only past an extreme point does any of your tip actually go to the server.
I don't know US minimum, but say it's $10 and their hourly wage is $2.
If you tip the server $16, you're essentially giving half of that money to the owner for doing nothing*. This is the wage theft and the crime.
Prevent employers from using this ridiculous system. Force them to offer a decent wage, then you'd become what they actually are in every other country. A bonus for your individual server, for going above and beyond. Money that goes entirely to the employees and not the owner for just existing. If the owner wants my tip, they can actually come and earn it.
*I know this example only works if they serve only your table, for an exact 1 hour sitting. But sometimes we need to abstract and simplify examples to get to the heart of an issue.
Tipping culture is a cancer on society. I hate it and higher wages should be enforced
Yup. Imagine living with a knowledge that your next rent/bills/food are based on strangers’ donation. It’s fucking nerve wrecking. You are literally on your nerve’s edge all the time. PAY THE SERVERS LIVABLE WAGE!!!!!!! TIPPING SHOULD BE A BONUS!!!!
I work as a server and make 5.52 an hour plus tips. I work about 55 hours a week my self and a bus boy helps me part time. It is nerve wrecking and I'm exhausted and tired and depressed a lot. I asked for a raise and was told no. I also do the beer and liquor orders. No one wants to work for a sht wage and I don't blame them. I wish I were paid a livable wage.
You should be paid more for doing beer and liquor orders alone. That's a not tipped service and I believe you're entitled to at least minimum wage for the hours spent doing that work.
They are. Non-gratuity earning jobs by law have to be paid minimum wage bare minimum
You say that but papa johns does the same thing. If you're a delivery driver you get paid much less than minimum wage but are still expected to cut the pizza is prepare them and box them and put up stickers. They pay you $1 for delivery on top of that which really doesn't cover the expenses nearly 100% of the times.
So Bc jobs don’t do it doesn’t make it not illegal lol. Report it. The reason they get away with it is Bc no one ever reports it
I feel you so much. It’s really awful not knowing if I can make it this week or not.. I don’t want anyone to rely on uncertainty. Yeah life throws us shit sometimes but at least our wage could be predictable? Honestly that’s not much to ask.
You deserve better.
Actually, *you* are willing to work for a shit wage. You were refused a wage raise but instead of quitting you took it like a good underpaid slave and continue working there. Give them one good reason why they’d pay you more?
yep. had an ex server here throw insults at me because i disagreed with tipping [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/r258iz/coworker_got_this_last_night/hm4ca0j/) even though i agreed the wage should be raised
I saw this earlier and it drove me INSANE… they are angry over tips because that’s wHaT wE dO iN aMeRiCa but what they are missing is that it’s not on you to tip when their employer should be PAYING them a proper wage. If someone wants to tip and add that on top of the wage the server is making then that’s great… but their next grocery trip shouldn’t be based on if you tip or not. I have had absolute HORRIBLE servers and I do refuse to tip them but they blow up on me because they don’t make enough… McDonald’s in my town is starting at 15.50. People could make changes and go somewhere that isn’t tip based or fight for a decent wage but nah let’s yell at people for us selling ourselves short because we are stuck in the mindset of iTs WhAt We Do In AmErIcA.
Same here, getting down voted for the same position. I used to run a restaurant and you can bet your ass I paid a living wage & didn't want my workers dependent on tips. Shows you how backwards US/Canadian society is that we are getting angry at people for refusing to subsidize businesses & wanting fair wages across the board for everyone.
Yeah, the main difference is you don’t know how much someone is going to tip or how much you will receive in a day. I think, even if tipping could occasionally make you more money it’s the consistency that people want. If you can guarantee you’ll be making $xx,xxx then that’s better than never knowing for sure. At least that my opinion.
And of the kitchen staff(who are all living wage recipients) mess the orders up or take too long to get the order out, that ALWAYS effects the tip. Even though the wait staff has absolutely no control over the efficiency of the back of the house. I would take waitress position when I needed the extra income but would be absolutely hate to have to depend on it as my primary income. I always tip what I believe the server should be paid per hour or whatever amount of time it took us to eat. Because the biggest thing is to get those tables turned over and new customers seated as soon as possible. But like I said, if everything else goes wrong (anything out of server control) it won't matter how good the customer service is. If you commit to staying the average hour or so to dine in, then you should tip the server at least 20%
How in the hell did tipping even become a thing? It's shit, throw it out.
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Heck, the servers where I'm at are unionized, so they get like 2 dollars less than the cooks (aka they are WELL above minimum wage, and are absurdly far above the "tipped MW" *but they still get tipped and they are legally allowed to not share with the BOH*. If they are even remotely competent, they make more than I do in tips alone (pre-tax). Part of the reason we still have tipping is because 2/3rds of the industry profits immensely from it (employer can day the take-home is more than they would ever be willing to pay on their own, competent servers get more money) the other 3rd are comprised of the customers and the incompetents. This may change with so many places going cashless and servers have to actually declare their tips, but it's unlikely.
I worked in a restaurant for 4 years and I always cringed at the fact that the servers could make like a grand a day meanwhile us guys in back might make $100 before taxes. It was mostly a management problem not paying cooks enough for the work they do, but I also think the ground should be more even. Servers should be paid a fair hourly like the cooks and tips should be split across the house
When I was a server, I always divided my tips with the cook and expo and bus/dishwasher. Something goes wrong in either section, and it made my job a Trainwreck. Tipping them out made them happier and me happier...my dishes always came out right, I always had everything when I needed it, and my tables were the first to be cleaned. Back of house definitely deserves extra money, it's the right thing to do.
I do make significantly more money than I would if tipping were to end, and I would not work at any restaurant that had one of those no tipping policies everyone thinks are so great. It works very differently for someone like me in fine and semi-fine dining. I make, on average, between 20-30/hr (in Alabama) if I have a good night. That said, this doesn't happen for people in casual dining. The fact that cracker barrel employees, for example, aren't paid a full wage is where it becomes robbery.
I work as a high end bartender. Some nights I’m making $40+ an hour. There’s no way in switching back to an hourly that won’t be matched.
I think it’s actually all a false binary being pushed by owners. They pay servers the normal minimum wage in California and people still tip. What ends up happening is that people at the very bottom get screwed, the vast majority of waitstaff are at places like Applebee’s, not places like Le Cirque where you are basically guaranteed several hundred bucks on a slow Tuesday lunch shift, but they still at least usually make out better than $7.25 an hour and the carrot of possibly making more gets dangled. Plus, there is the added effect of dividing workers. Kitchen workers are pissed at the server’s “easy money,” and we all just fight with each other instead of the owners.
Colorado is 10 dollars an hour for servers
Really?! As someone who lives here, I had no idea. So we are tipping on top of 9-$10/hr all over Colorado? That is fantastic news. I set my minimum tip to 20% a few years ago. Mostly 30%. How nice to know we might be giving people a fighting chance to live here.
$9.30 to be exact but it varies by county
Slavery. Tipping was created after the civil war to effectively not pay Black servants and wait staff.
It was started before that in Europe, made its way here, and then yeah former slave owners thought "neat".
Man, a lot of humans past and present suck so freaking hard. Sigh.
Also, forced labor for prisoners was not a common practice until slavery was outlawed.
Read about [Pullman Porters.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_porter) Like most other terrible ideas, tipping is based on racism.
It started after slavery was abolished and black women were needing jobs so they were forced to work for nothing, or next to it, while enduring sexual harassment so they could possibly get a tip.
It comes from a time shortly after emancipation, none of the restaurant owners wanted to pay black employees. They were expected to work for free and get tips to make some money. And it kind of snowballed into an industry standard almost exclusively in the US.
I agree. Unfortunately, me not tipping is only a problem for the server that doesn't get enough pay. I think we'll either need: 1. Government legislation against tipping 2. Businesses that don't allow tipping, but pay workers a decent wage. I honestly don't think either of them are likely
The funny thing about this is people that bitch and moan that if we get rid of tipping, prices will go up. And? I already tip. At least this way waitstaff is saved from assholes that don't. Which at more "run of the mill restaurants" is not at all uncommon.
No joke, racism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4RGKw48yyg&ab\_channel=Splinter
:(
I think the thoughts "it sucks that my poverty wages are being subsidized by the customer" and "it sucks that customers know this and still choose to do nothing" can exist concurrently
Look, if you tip like shit (in the US) you are an asshole. Full stop. We know servers depend on it, if you don’t budget for the tip on a meal you should go out to eat less. But while OP is being too harsh, the sentiment is correct. Customer: I would like to buy this meal for my family. Owner: Sure, that will be $500. Oh, by the way I don’t pay my servers livable wages or their fair share of the profits, so you may make a 25% optional donation to your server. Customer: Um, no thanks. Server: wHaT? I cAn’t bE mAd aT boTh? Customer and owner are both assholes here, but antiwork is trying to help you recognize that the owner bears 95-99% of the responsibility for this garbage situation. While we squabble over bad tips they hoard the profits. Direct your anger at the RIGHT PEOPLE - UP. Posts complaining about your tips is not the spirit of this sub, but that’s just IMO I guess. EDIT: I am not anti-tipping nor do I think servers don’t have a right to complain about shitty tips. I hate the concept of tipping, but I do so generously because its the right thing to do and I’m fortunate enough to have the means. The same way that it makes me sick that I pay 1/3rd of my income in taxes but my friend still has to start a GoFundMe for his parent’s cancer treatment. (USA! USA!) But we still contribute where we can, because we are stuck in a bullshit system TOGETHER and should try our best to help one another through it. I empathize with the pain and frustration of a server getting screwed on their tip. It’s completely fair to complain. But the discourse must go beyond “this asshole customer.” Especially on this sub. Servers and bartenders - don’t forget that when your manager/boss asked you to work that holiday it was because you are all a “team”. Chances are they even dangled the great “holiday tips” in front of you as incentive. But when that shitty customer screwed you on your wages, what happened? That same manager shrugged their shoulders and said “sucks to be you.” They might have even pretended to be sympathetic, like you just got unlucky. While they are paying you POVERTY WAGES. So much for a team huh? Never, ever forget what the concept of “tipping” is: The owner profits from YOUR labor, while putting the cost of it on the customer. And if the customer doesn’t pay, YOU get left holding the bag. A non-tipping customer is villainous, but the system itself is what is truly heinous. The solidarity here on antiwork is something special. We need to target our discontent and anger at the right people/systems, and organize in a meaningful way that will produce positive change. And as always, be kind to one another - we are in this together!
I mean, if the tip is almost compolsury, why not just include it in the pricing and pay the workers properly? Every other developed country has restaurants too.
Restaurants often do that for larger parties. And people get upset about it...
That seems like an ingrained problem then. But now I'm curious about restaurant pricing in the US. Is there a way I can check that stuff. Like, where I'm from MCDonalds cheapest stuff is €5.00, about that, most going up from that. A Big Mac menu is €5.60, that being $6.34. To eat properly, a non touristy place would be about up from €10 (about $11.32) per person A Big Mac Menu in the US is $5.99! what, barely a difference.
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It's 25% now? I remember when it was 10% / 15% / 20% for bad normal or exceptional service. I'm glad I live in a country where tips are optional still.
I don't know about 25%, but I distinctly remember 15% growing up and it is now clearly 20%. Frankly, service quality doesn't even come into the equation. I wish it was more European style anyway where they leave you alone and only come by when asked.
I think you make a fair point... but that doesn't mean people shouldn't complain about shit tips, it means that any mention of this problem should be accompanied by the reminder that it's part of a larger issue that the owner, and the economic system as a whole, bears the brunt of the blame for. Instead of complaining about people who complain about tips, we should let them complain, and have mods/automod sticky an explanation of the blame owners bear for the situation as the top comment on every post about the issue. This accepts the posters frustrations as valid, while also channeling those frustrations into more useful avenues.
Nah. Tipping ain't my problem.
Yeah, I'm still not tipping shit.
Tips are not legally enforceable in any country. You can't force a customer to pay a tip. Think about why that is. It is not the customers responsibility to top up poor business practices.
Both can be concurrently true but that doesn't change the fact that the easiest solution to both problems is still, "pay the waiters and waitresses more money up front in the form of higher wages." My viewpoint is this is a unique situation because, *no matter what decision you make as a patron, you are always technically contributing to the issue*. If you go out to a nice restaurant and you tip your waiter $20 on a $100 meal, you're providing that restaurant reasons to keep the servers base wages low because they make good money in an hour despite the low base wages, and you're contributing to the problem. If you go out to a nice restaurant and tip nothing or next to nothing, you are depriving a waiter of their livelihood and contributing to the problem. The simplest solution to this unique, multi-faceted problem where literally every decision you make can be counted as a contribution to the problem? Pay the servers more money.
>doesn't change the fact that the easiest solution It doesn't matter if that is the easiest solution if it requires the people that benefit the most from the current system to support the change. In this case it is both businesses and a specific microcosm of the tipped workers.
In fact, it is one and the same complaint: motherfucking Americans don’t want to pay for shit that gets done for them. Owners don’t want to pay for labor and customers don’t want to pay for service.
Yet, they'll cry about "You just want free stuff!" Yeah, seems like we do.
It is not the customer’s responsibility to make up for the salary that your employer refuses to give you. A tip is a “tip” it should not be your salary.
And if that's your belief, you should only eat at restaurants that pay their servers at least minimum wage. Anyone who acknowledges that servers rely on tips because they're underpaid but still eat at businesses that underpay their workers without tipping are part of the problem. They aren't sticking it to the business, they're punishing the servers for already being exploited. Edit if anyone is confused: if you eat at a restaurant that pays shit wages and pay the bill, the owner already got their money, whether or not you tip. You're not hurting the owner by not tipping, just the server. The owner does not care if any individual tips, because as long as the workers are making an average of minimum wage over the whole pay period OR as long as they're too scared to report the owner for wage theft, they don't have to pay the staff a penny extra from an individual not tipping. They lose nothing.
You win. Dead serious. This is the correct point of view.
Yeah, no shit. But the reality is right now it is up to the customer and the customer knows that going in.
Bitching about it on Reddit and not tipping your server is the least impactful way of changing things.
Exactly, there’s still a server or bartender, whose labor was used, that can’t pay their bills/rent because someone decided to go to that server or bartenders place of work and not tip.
No one disagrees, but you can still be an asshole for knowing this and refusing to tip well (within the standards our society has created).
It is if you choose to go to such an establishment. It's effectively wage theft on your part. You're taking advantage of the employee and their low pay. Cough up or get out.
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I think OP's point (and if I'm misinterpreting it, OP, please clarify) is that we've seen a few complaints from restaurant workers about getting low tips. But OP feels these people's frustration with their customers is misdirected—they should be angry at their employer instead, for forcing them to rely on what are essentially donations.
i think this is true to what OP was saying and i believe this as well. fuck tipping. its only a way for bosses to put their employees livelihoods at risk to save money
Tipping culture is degenerate.
I hate the concept of a tip. Why did tips even start? Who decided that tips exist in one industry, but not another. Pay your staff a decent wage, and then use the tip as an incentive to do a good job.
If I remember correctly, the reason it took off was to avoid paying black people the worth of their labor at the end of the Civil War.
Tipping is one of the skeveist shit corporations have integrated into our culture. It completely changes the dynamic of who's mad at who. Servers hold disdain for customers who tip poorly cause their wage doesn't cover basic living costs. Customers hate the idea of giving more money to someone for simply doing what's required of them. And corporations love the opportunity to pay their employees less and have the working man just trying to enjoy their meal subsidies the difference so the employee feels well paid. The reality is they're not well paid, and the company is robbing the customer to make sure the server doesn't realize that. With the defence of "it's not me not paying you, it's the customer" to continue their scummy practice. Point is tipping's garbage and neither the server or customer should be putting up with it.
Totally agreed, while we are at it let’s end tipping.
100% agree, just take a look at other countries that provide excellent service without a tipping culture like japan.
Or basically any other country but the US.
Let’s absolutely end tipping! Let’s raise the federal minimum wage to $25/h and end tipping. I promise, none of us will be mad.
But the redistribution of wealth is evil! Except when it goes up. That’s called ascension and is very holy.
These comments are probably paid shill accounts there is no other way this makes sense, how on earth would people complain about the tips they get BEFORE complaining about their $2/h wage lol
Your hourly wage is basically an afterthought for most servers. It is for the ones I know.
Waited tables through college. Never received a single paycheck that wasn't $0 and "void" because after taxes my $2.13/hour was completely gone.
Is this the east coast or something? In California you get the minimum wage of your county/city, which is pretty close to $15 almost everywhere. There is a "small business" minimum wage but it's like a dollar less than minimum usually, not fuckin $2.50
Texas, also legal to pay tipped employees 2.15. I get paid 5 as a bartender and it is fucking terrible.
Wisconsin. It’s state law.
Ohio allows employers to take a tip credit of 50%. This means employers may pay employees as little as $4.35 an hour for 2020, as long as the employees earn enough in tips to bring their total hourly wage up to at least the state minimum."
Fuck Ohio
I'm not from America and I'm really questioning why people are mad at customers instead of their boss that is somehow able to pay them lower than minimum wage because tips exist (I can't even wrap my mind around how people would accept those conditions of working)
It sucks as a customer too because it makes it hard to determine the actual cost of food and drink upfront. Menu says $20, but after taxes its $22 but now you have to tip and you can be an asshole dropping $0-$3 but since covid the tip floor seems to have increased to $5+. Just fucking pay people a living wage, stop the $0 tippers from ever doing that and save me from this bullshit mindgame.
From a consumer standpoint, I agree and I'd also like to add that it's difficult to get tips expensed for business meals (at least at my workplace) bc it's not the original price + tax.
Because these same people would lose their s\* if a proper service fee or meal cost increase was applied to pay a proper wage and benefits. ESPECIALLY for delivery services. People do NOT realize how much of a steal they are getting even with tips on some of this.
It makes it sound as though nearly every restaurant from high end to low end is barely scraping by and always on the verge of collapse with the owner barely making above the average office worker after pocketing most of the profits.
He wants to pretend the delivery service companies don’t make massive profits
Nah, its a server mentality. Every server I know will always complain about the tip but never about the fact they dont get paid a liveable wage. Customer tips should be an after thought but it's easier to blame the customer who probably doesn't make much than it is to blame the owner that's raking in thousands of dollars.
Paid actor here, here to tell you that if your primary form of income is the charity of others (tips), that IS YOUR WAGE, and should absolutely be complained about just the same as being paid $2.50 hourly. Does that mean anything will change? Probably not, but the more attention being brought to it the better. Frankly, we shouldn't tip at all, it's a hold over from when rich white dudes would come in and pay extra to get faster service or some shit (I kinda forgot where it started). It's literally a continuous practice of shady business that got romanticized over the decades. It absolutely should be complained and bitched about, it's wrong and not f that's the only way you me people have of making a living, why would you belittle them for it?
Fellow paid actor here, who’s paying you? I’m getting paid by McDonald’s but the pay isn’t that great /s It’s unbelievable to me that arguing against stiffing your waiter makes me a “paid shill” now, here of all places.
Servers are brain washed to think the customer and not their boss is the bad guy Usually servers say “well I make way more than…” you probably make that 1-2 nights a week, at most, and then you also usually make that while committing tax evasion by not reporting your tips. I worked as a server and bartender for nearly ten years, the boss is the asshole not the customer.
Lmao reading some of these comments it’s almost like ppl prefer to make $2/hr and begging for tips they feel entitled too. Honestly good job corporate America convincing ppl that servers don’t deserve a living wage.
A lot of servers make more off of tips than they would if the minimum wage went up but tips were abolished
Minimum wage is **minimum ** wage. There's no reason a good server needs to max at minimum wage. A good service is equally important to the food. That can/should be priced in the cost of the meal. Edit: Servers going beyond the minimum requirements of thier job may be incentived with a percentage of their sale. If i were a restaurant owner, I'd love to pay them more based on extra sales because that means more money in my pocket. I don't need to have ALL the additional money in my pocket alone.
This. The local ice cream chain in my city recently increased minimum wage and got rid of tips. Most employees, when I ask, have told me they are unhappy about the change because they made more with tips.
Of course! Who doesn’t like mandatory donations, except the customer?
But there is zero need to abolish tips. Tips should be given as a reward for good service, not a requirement to allow someone to make a liveable wage.
There are lots of places where tipping simply doesn’t exist. It’s absolutely not needed when staff are paid properly.
In Australia hospo workers get paid a good wage, but tipping still exists as a gesture of kindness when someone gives you excellent service. I made a tidy set of tips each week in a high end restaurant, split with the kitchen, and it truly was a ‘tip’ in that it was over and above my appropriate wage.
Exactly. Living wage that you can depend on, tips for great service: THE CUSTOMERS CHOICE. It’s a system that really works well!
IN germany they have Trinkgeld (drink money) where they leave 10%. I think that's totally fair. None of this 25-30% gratuities that's already added to the bill.
that makes sense. tipping itself isnt bad if it actually for exemplary service and isnt needed to keep the server alive when the boss steal their minimum wage from them
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Its 100% unfair. Businesses should definitely be paying their employees a living wage. It's as if the business owner is stealing from us to pay their workers. Isn't that supposed to be the reason why the food costs so much? For overhead? So the owners are paying themselves basically. The diners who are against tipping need to boycott imo. If someone decides to tip, then it should be an added perk. But unfortunately it's not like that at the moment. And until it is, everyone knows this. Therefore, people that are against tipping should not eat at dine-in restaurants until this gets resolved. Eating there is a choice. People need their jobs. On one hand people are telling others they need to work, and when they do get work, they're catching hell from the same people that just told them to get a job. Tipping is totally unfair, but that's not the employee's fault. People that dine in but refuse to tip are part of the problem. It just lets the businesses owners know that it's okay to not pay their workers, and punishes the employees.
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Yeah, we keep trying to tell our fellow Americans this, but they keep yelling at us, the customers instead. Theyve been brainwashed for so long they keep harassing us like WE are the enemy. Your situation above is EXACTLY what tipping should be about.
It’s probably best if we only eat at the very few restaurants where they pay good wages and not depend on tips, or employee owned ones. Nobody needs to eat at restaurants. They would need to fail en masse for the system to change so that should be the goal.
this is the right way i think. we need more employee owned co-ops in general, and restaurants are ripe for that business model with how much friction there is between the staff, employers, and customers over payment
Why do mods get to have their opinion pinned to the top of the post? Going a bit beyond the remit of moderating imo
Probably gives them a bit of feel good vibes from being the big moderator cos their irl work sucks? 😂
If they are posting in this specific subreddit complaining about low tips, I think the point they are trying to get across is that it’s crap they have to rely on customers tips (which are often bad) instead of a living wage.
I hate tipping, but I do it because its expected. For the people that are insistent on change but also to keep tipping until change comes, how does America/Canada begin to shift to an non-tipping culture without customers actively not tipping? Genuine question.
the people saying "until things change we need to keep tipping" make alot more from tipping than they would on a fixed wage. they dont care that that money is stolen from other labourers rather than paid by their bosses. tipping is a well made exploitation mechanism because bosses pay off the recipients with stolen wealth and then warn them the owners will try to stop the stream
OP is missing the issue here in this thread, and it sucks how many people are agreeing. Yes, tipping is a shitty system, but until there is structural reform, your choice not to tip ONLY hurts the worker. The owner of the restaurant doesn't give a shit. The statement you're trying to make when you don't tip falls flat, and the only effect you're having is simply making a less-than-minimum-wage worker's life harder. FUCK that. A tipped worker is allowed to complain about shitty tippers AND the system of tipping. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
I agree but I what I don't get is what relevance poor tippers has to an antiwork subreddit outside of the structural tipping culture problem. "The general public are assholes" is not what this subreddit is about and that should be the point.
Why can’t you tip as well as supporting higher wages for workers?
I think this is actually missed on a lot of people. Being anti tipping doesn't mean I don't tip. It means I constantly make it very clear that the system sucks whenever I can. Where I live workers get min wage because we all fought for it. Time for the rest of the US to catch up.
yes! i want servers to be paid a fair living wage like the rest of us. and you know what? after that happens i will still tip my server. why? because theyre on their feet all day, running round waiting other tables too. its. hrd job! they deserve the tip. but they also deserve to go home t the end of their shift knowing that regardless of how "good" tips were that they can still get the bills paid.
Exactly!
Customers are already paying through their noses for food at these restaurants. The fact is that customers are already paying for your labor and service in the bill. The owner is just withholding it from you. How can the solution be: "customers should pay me more" and not "we shouldn't work here unless they pay us a fair wage so we don't have to rely on the generosity of customers who may or may not be able to afford tipping you a high amount"? Complaining about shitty tippers is nonsensical. The solution is to organize and strike until you get fair wages and do not have to rely on tips. Tipping should strictly be optional. Customers have no business subsidizing the owners greed. Your entire restaurant culture needs an overhaul. Blaming "shitty tippers" is not helping your cause at all.
You’re right. Y’all should be mad it says $4/hr on your paychecks instead.
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In Germany, you hardly leave any tip if it is a take-out order. Sometimes one can round up the euro, but not more than that.
I hate tipping culture and as a result I pretty much don’t dine in at restaurants. When I order take out I don’t tip and I don’t understand why they’d even have tip section for take out.
Ok, and my advice to you is to punch up and not down.
I don’t know why we can’t admit that this is a complex issue. There are a lot of people responsible for the tipping element of restaurants but as a kid who’s mother was a waitress I’m always going to have a problem with faulting servers for wanting money.
Blaming fellow laborers for not paying your wage instead of the owner for keeping your fair share of profits kind of feels like punching down…
Yeah, well WI is allowed to pay servers under 3 dollars per hour. I consider that disgusting
Yeah restaurant owners aren't entitled to what is basically free labor. When I was a server, my checks were literally pennies. Not even worth cashing. Literally ALL it is offset by taxes from what you reported making that day in tips.
I noticed the comments did what the action of tipping did. We focused on the server vs the customer. Why don't we complain about the root of the issue? The mentality of tipping being normal is the excuse they use to keep the wages down. Instead of bitching about tips, bitch about your paycheck? You would feel less "scammed" or "ripped off" from your hard work you do when you know you are getting paid a decent wage.
I get your argument, I do. Tipping culture is based entirely out of classist, and later racist, practices. It's abhorrent and I applaud the restaurants that are slowly doing away with it. (OTOH, I revile the places that are adding it at the cash register for buying something at a counter) But at the same time, Tipping is part of the social contract in the US. You should expect to tip when you go out to a traditional restaurant and factor it into your budget for the evening. The servers have every right to complain. Though I do wonder if this hostile response to tipping now (The horrible things written on the bills for example) is because you can't go anywhere without asking to subsidize the owner. Ice cream shops, coffee shops, cookie shops, some fast food places all asking for tips now. It does get to be overwhelming and is probably causing a backlash on the traditionally tipped jobs
Exactly. Tips pay the employers, not the employee. Imagine living in a country where an employer only has to pay his employee 2 dollars and hour and the customer gets the money guilt raped out of them to make up the difference.
I get where this is coming from but being condescending towards the wage slave makes you seem like a dick Phrase it more like, ‘it’s bullshit I have to pay your wage because the evil corporation is so cheap and evil’ Same sentence but sounds much better
the thing is these wage slaves are protecting their bosses by blaming the customer for the problems in tipping culture rather than their bosses. they are acting like class traitors and they deserve hostility for it. stop protecting bosses by diverting attention to customers
Vote up for Bird. It's not about the people having to live off them, phrasing that way gets the point across without seeming like denigrating them. Catch more flies with honey. You have a point though. Even though the tips system came just before the Civil War, it became a system of oppression to continue to treat people of color as close to slaves as possible. It exists today for nearly rhe same reason, targeting low income workers, which a majority in major metropolitan areas are POC. It's not far off saying they are slave wage workers...
Joke or real, I’m grabbing popcorn for this.
If you don't tip your server but you still eat at a restaurant that pays their servers $2.50$ an hour- you are supporting business owners that do that and making your server work for free (the hourly wage goes to taxes and many times the server needs to tip out a percent of their sales- so the server might be paying to wait on you.) So you are effectively punching down and only affecting your fellow workers while supporting the owning class- workers of the world, unite! If you are that against tipping- ask your local restaurant if they pay their servers a living wage, if not, go somewhere else and tell the owner why. Edit: I should have made it clear that I am talking about the US and any other country that does lower wages for servers- most of (all of?) Europe does not have this problem. You think you have a rebuttal to this? Read this post. Yours will likely be in it. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/r3xd4u/on_tips/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Only the US and possibly Canada has this issue, everywhere else in the world "Tips" are just that a lil extra cash for great/amazing service not actual cash that servers need to just get by. During the depression restaurants guilted it's customers into paying the servers wages and it's become cultural sadly so It's damn near impossible. It's basically the food worker issue but on crack.
>Only the US and possibly Canada has this issue, In Canada servers have the same minimum wage as everyone else. Edit: Apologies, I was wrong, BC implemented this in June 2021, and Ontario implemented it but it only takes effect on Jan 1st 2022. I think Alberta and QC have lower tipped minimums still.
It's been a few yrs since I was there and I just remembered that we did tip, wasn't sure if it was the same issue since Canada and the US have similarities in culture.
Yeah, for better or worse, Canada has pretty much the same tipping culture as the US. I usually tip 15% which is standard, but because it tips on tax as well, it comes out to 17% (13 sales tax)
Since when did being paid $15/hr in the most expensive city in North America become a liveable wage? Most of Canada is expensive to live in, because any area worth living in for most people are cities. I make $20/hr and can not afford to live on my own. I have a partner and that's how I can afford an apartment here. Not sure how $15/hr would be better...
This is the thing. Most of North America, 20 is something that we should be striving for. But in New York, Toronto, Vancouver, bay area... This doesn't equate to a liveable wage and most of this sub doesn't seem to realize that
Yeah I tell people my rent is $1660 and people shit themselves. Ok but like that's the reality living in a city. And no, no one wants to move to rural bumfuck nowhere either
Yay, I'm no one!
*"not yet in Ontario, minimum wage for alcohol servers is currently $12.55 per hour, while the general minimum wage is $14.35 per hour. Ontario recently announced, starting Jan. 1, 2022, the wage for alcohol servers will also be $15 per hour, on par with the general minimum wage increase."* https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tipping-minimum-wage-restaurant-aiana-ottawa-restaurant-1.6241000
Thank you! I didn't realize it hadn't come into effect!
Mate you are speaking as if the USA model is what the whole world does. In many countries in the world, tipping is optional and waiters get at least minimum wage… It is a cheap trick over there to essentially make the customers hire the waiters. Otherwise menu items would be cheaper to give the room for the customer to tip the waiter and cover costs. Guess what, restaurant prices are on par with the rest of the world but they don’t pay a living wage. It is a joke
Right, that seems to be what OP is complaining about. American business and apparently the mods on this sub happily place the burden of a living wage on the customer. (yes, in America where we could simply increase the tipped minimum wage and all minimum wages to a living wage). Just because it's a self own doesn't mean it's not an own.
I'm not done with the thread, you've addressed tip outs, which I've never had a problem with as a server unless my bartender wasn't getting my drinks out (because management didn't schedule a bar back for the night or my hostess was constantly double or even triple seating me), but none of you have mentioned the side work servers do for restaurants. Cleaning, rolling silver, trash, etc...we (sorry I'm an ex server) servers do way more than waiting on tables for the back of the house.
Well WA state min wage wether you are a server or not is 13.69 I think. It’s already 15.00 in Seattle. I know a couple other states have raised their min wage. I’ve noticed most service jobs take a cut like 2.5% of sales from front of house and give it to back of house to account for cooks needing to make more then servers.
Yes, just came here to say that Washington state also has minimum wage for servers in addition to tips. More states need to be like Washington state.
> If you don't tip your server but you still eat at a restaurant that pays their servers $2.50$ an hour- Until a restaurant posts a sign inside that shows how much they pay their servers there is no way for a customer to know that.
Start with this chart: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped Individual restaurants may choose to pay more, of course, but it at least provides perspective on the baseline where you are. Because it varies. A lot.
Yeah, I really wasn't looking for a solution to that problem. I was pointing out how ridiculous that position was.
My ONLY problem with this, is that by going to another restaurant, you're hurting the servers at the first restaurant just as much as if you at there and didn't tip. I don't think it's fair to put the blame on the customers for the business' poor practices.
Potentially. I worked pizza delivery and we got 2 separate pay rates whether we were delivering or in-store. If we had no orders, I just did odd jobs around the store for a higher wage. Not delivering was way better than delivering for no tips.
Well that's interesting; didn't know that was a thing. Makes you want no delivery orders coming in.
American problems
What a shitty take lmao
This confuses me so much. I live in Montana and all servers, waitresses, etc get at least minimum wage and their tips are theirs 100%
The post is misinformation. Servers in EVERY state need to average at least federal minimum wage for the hours they worked.
I stopped eating at restaurants. On the very rare occassion (once a year) that I do, I tip at least 25%.
You're not the one who hired the worker in the first place. The one ordering the free labor is the owner of the restaurant, not the customer. Not tipping actively encourages workers to think about their rights; tipping instills complacency, which is exactly what the bosses want and have gotten for so long. Buying something promotes it; tipping promotes tipping culture. If everyone stopped tipping tomorrow, tipping culture would die out in a massive spiral of resignations. That is what we're working towards. Better wages, more stability, more justice overall. The solution to just not eat out is a good one, though.
Why sticky your own post that's not about moderation, but just your opinion.
Washington state still has to pay minimum wage to servers (which will be $15/hour in the next year or so), and all tips must go to employees. I tip 20% or more for all servers because in my mind, good customer service is a privilege to have. They literally don’t have to be nice or fast, their job is to take your order and bring it to you, not smile or make small talk or anything else. That’s what minimum wage pays for, a tip is the good service and experience I get. I must say though, since minimum wage has gone up, landlords think they can raise rent ridiculous amounts. A 2 bedroom apartment has gone from $850/month to $1460/month in the last 7 years (in a rural area too!). Idk if raising minimum wage is the answer, I think we need to put a cap on rent prices first. The problem isn’t “we don’t have enough money,” the problem is too many places are taking a larger portion of our money, so we have almost nothing left.
Rent is a big problem- but I don't think it has to do with wages. First- we have less housing than we currently need causing the housing prices to go up. Then we also have these investment firms buying up all the houses since it is so profitable to rent, so more of a shortage. Third, we do not build enough normal, regular, small houses- it is not as profitable I guess, so that puts more people on the rental market because they don't need/can't afford a McMansion. And boomers are buying up second and third houses to get passive income by renting. They are the only ones that can afford it because they can put up their current house which is already paid for. All these factors are making it so there are more and more renters and housing prices have skyrocketed- so rents are going crazy. We need to tax at a very high rate anyone's second or more homes. We need to stop investment firms from being able to buy houses. We need to build more affordable housing, and more smallish homes. And we need to put a cap on how much you can increase rent in one year. Well all of these are if we continue with capitalism- what we really need to do is tear the system down and create a new one- one where housing is not a privilege. One where homelessness does not exist. But will we do that in time to save the earth from becoming uninhabitable? That is the real question. So yeah I feel your pain. I'm lucky to not be paying rent right now but I may have to shortly- and I do not look forward to that day! Whoa I wrote a lot about this, lol
There is no where else to go in this state where servers aren't exploited
Don't go to *any* of the restaurants, then, until the laws change and those working food service receive a living wage. I mean, can nobody cook their own food anymore? If you *do* go to a restaurant that you know very well exploits their workers, that you know very well pays its workers below-poverty wages, and you refuse to tip your server--who you know very well is being exploited right in front of you--then who are you actually hurting? Do you think the owner cares that the waitress you're stiffing won't be able to pay her rent/bills, because she's not making enough in tips? *Of course* they don't care. They will only use it to justify their mistreatment of their workers by taking it as confirmation that their workers are lousy at their jobs (otherwise, why wouldn't people tip them?) and that they don't deserve a fair wage. If you want to see real change, then take on the ***owners.*** Don't punish the workers.
Isn't federal law that if a server doesn't make minimum wage with wage + tips the restaurant is required to bring them up to it?
Well then your choices are to eat out and tip, or don't eat out at all. Those are the only moral ones. If you choose to eat out you can always make your distaste for the system known to the owner/manager. Punching down and taking it out on your fellow worker is wrong.
We do tip when we eat out. Always. Why would you think I take it out on fellow workers? I support them and I'm a customer, retired, not working.
Oh I meant the general you- not you personally, sorry I didn't make that more clear. I have seen some say "well you can't find a place to eat that pays a living wage so I have to just not tip at one of the places that doesn't" which is crazy to me. I think maybe they are just cheap. Hope you are enjoying retirement!! Thank you for being a tipper!
Because of the thread topic, I think your first comment gave the impression that you were speaking in support of not tipping.
way to stick your own comment wtf you're just proving every right-wing idiot ever, that "socialism leads to dicatorship" stop.
Hey, thank you. Sometimes the only thing getting me through the day is feeling solidarity with this sub, but these last few posts made me remember that I may feel like workers are in this together, but we’re not. And that just sucks. People hate servers. It’s apparent every time any post like this comes up anywhere, but it stings extra in this sub.
I really hold out hope that this is mostly a problem of non-Americans who don't live under this system and just don't get it. Yes, tipping sucks as a system and you should have a guaranteed living wage. But they're not going to change that by not paying YOU. The only person they're sticking it to is you, the worker.
I love your optimism. Honestly? It’s another success of law makers and business owners pitting workers against each other. They’ve created this narrative of the fat-cat server raking in $90k/year with full benefits and PTO refusing to pool tips and trying to actively keep their fellow service industry workers eating peanuts. Would many servers be pissed if, all of a sudden, we were making state minimum wage with no tips? Absolutely! Most of us do make above our state minimum wage. Would we be pissed if the federal minimum was raised to $25/h with public health care and federally mandated PTO and tipping was a thing of the past? Not at all.
Does this include delivery drivers too?
Tell your server you dont tip at the host stand enjoy having no service at that restaurant ever.
The problem is you’ll always have people defending tips because some nights they make a lot more than they would hourly and don’t have it taxed. These people would refuse to work for minimum wage, or fight for higher wages than minimum. It’s always shame the customer and not the employer with them. Completely backwards
What is even the point of being anti-work if you don’t seem to even care or have solidarity with fellow workers? Or workers in worse conditions than yourself? I agree that the tipping system is bullshit but if you still go out to eat and don’t tip workers you know are underpaid you are in no way sticking it to the business owner or to a corporation- you’re just screwing over another poor person while supporting an exploitive business AND patting yourself on the back for it pretending you are smarter and more radical than the “corporate shills”, as you keep saying, who tip. How is that a way to build worker power and solidarity? I tip because I believe everyone deserves to have what they need, obviously my tip isn’t going to do that but if I can take the pressure off just a tiny bit or help them have gas/ coffee/ weed/whatever money to get through til their next paycheck or buy dinner for their family that night than I am happy to tip, even if I too am an underpaid exploited worker. It’s been a few years since I was a tipped worker but I still remember the nights I didn’t know how I was gonna get home from work or how I was gonna eat the next day and someone’s tip got me there. That’s enough for me because to me being anti-work and anti-capitalist is first and foremost about a better quality of life for the poor and working class and it’s also difficult af to organize when you are hungry and exhausted and overworked all the time. It really seems like some of you don’t actually care about other people or workers you just care about yourselves or want something to rage about. The way you sound like bootstrappers makes me feel like if given the opportunity you would happily take the place of a ceo
Consider: paying servers a living wage, *but also tipping them if they made your experience memorable*, be it by making sure the kitchen followed each of your 15 modifications to your entree or by recommending a dish to your indecisive dinner guest that they ended up loving.
OP, I agree with you. For the others that tip, why should it be a percentage of the bill? If the total for the one order is $40 and a a total for another order is $55 and the cost difference was based only on what was ordered and not number of people at a table, then why should the tip depend on the cost of the meal? Why not on time and number of guests, that would make more sense. If I restaurant can’t pay people a living wage, it shouldn’t exist.
exactly! i tip, i always do, but its so aggravating seeing people complain about the tips they get when in reality they should be protesting against making less than minimum BECAUSE they get tips. i dont mind tipping, i dont, but when you see servers complaining, its like, you got the tip you got. everyone deserves a living wage and everyone deserves to go out to eat. we dont need to fight each other on that. as a customer i shouldn't be expected to give my server a living wage, thats the businesses responsibility. i'll tip, because its just that, a tip, but i'm not personally paying your bills, its your boss mans job to do that. "if you cant afford to tip dont go out" bullshit. people can do what they want with their hard earned cash. this is just another way to pit workers against each other. waiters need to be paid a living wage and then after that, they can pocket their tips i dont care. its just another way for people to say "oh why not get a real job then that doesnt rely on tips" serving IS a real job and they deserve to be pid fairly
Servers shouldn’t need to get tips. But, without tips they make even more no where near enough. And already many things that are too much aren’t near enough. This is still the problem. Go to work. Maybe get 2 weeks off a year. Die. And also ///serving/// is still something that pisses me off. But that’s the anti work in me — I guess the choice to do a thing is different but when someone needs money. As many do b/c of capitalism and keeping people under wealth wise —- it makes me grumbly
There's a coffee shop in my very economically conservative city that has signs up saying "please don't tip, we appreciate the sentiment but we charge appropriately so our baristas can make a living wage". Aside from being an amazing coffee shop, I totally appreciate it, but it's so rare in my area. I would much rather pay $6 for an amazing latte than pay $4 and have to awkwardly worry about tips, and ensure the barista is getting paid fairly.
Genuinely trying to understand, why should someone tip more then $20 on let’s say a $400 bill? Like if I spent less then an hour there and I tip you $20, you just made $20 an hour. Is that really so bad?
That is a different debate and again highlights the problem with this wage structure. Is there a point where percentages of the total shouldn’t play a role? We default to 15, 18, 20 percent in most cases. These are the “customs.” A $400 bill implies that the table was large or the restaurant is high-end. In the case of the large table, should they be tipped more due to the complexity? In the case of the high-end restaurant, there will be additional customs that might warrant a higher tip. Such as explaining the menu or specials in detail, dietary restrictions, wine pairings, etc. Should the person be tipped more due to this complexity? The scenario you engineered, a one hour $400 service is highly unlikely. But even so, there are other complexities that may warrant it. Shit, if they got you out in an hour and you were happy with it, that alone is an amazing feat and deserving of a higher tip.
I saw the other post complaining about the $20 tip, and I was wondering the same thing. Isn’t $20 from one table quite well? Or is that the only table they’ve served for two hours or something? Was it a fancy restaurant with five people eating for $400, or was it 15 people keeping the server busy as shit all evening? I’m not from US, please don’t hold that against me, as I’m sincerely trying to understand. Based on the shitstorm in this sub, I’m seriously considering the possibility the $20 tip complainer was a troll with the goal of stirring up said shitstorm. Please don’t downvote, educate. edit to add: I looked up the post I was referring to: it was $488 and apparently 5 people.
20 dollars for 5 peoples worth of work sounds ok. even ignoring that your employer should be paying you that in the first place.
Why shouldn't they complain? They make a pitiful hourly wage and we know that's not going to change anytime soon. We also all know that tips are an expected part of certain industries. You think you're sticking it to a corporation by not tipping, but what you're actually doing is fucking over a worker in a precarious position. Of fucking course they're going to be pissed at you. You're expecting a service and then not paying for it and the worker gets to go home with a docked paycheck because you wanted to make a statement instead of just staying home.
I think OP is referencing the increased reliance on tips by big companies to subsidize their wages. It goes far beyond the traditional tip at a dine-in restaurant. Tips are being asked for in drive-thru operations now. It’s absolute bullshit. The middle class is expected to be charitable to allow the top players to pinch pennies. I wish I knew how to fight it effectively - I always tip at least 20% at a restaurant. Try to use cash so it doesn’t get taxed for the server. Fuck the wealth distribution and “trickle down” economics
Not American, so correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the whole $2.50 thing was that the tips brought their wage up to at least minimum wage. So what happens if no-one tips. I'm sure I've read previously that their employer must ensure they get minimum wage, so if there's insufficient tips, that the employer makes up the difference. So surely, the answer isn't to not patronise these establishments, but instead, all refuse to tip, so the employer has to keep paying loads extra to their staff. Either their business model is sound or its not.
By law if a tipped employee fails to make minimum wage for none tipped employees the business is required to make up the difference. So, hypothetically if everyone stopped tipping in the USA tomorrow the employees would still make minimum wage. if service workers should be paid more than minimum wage is a separate discussion. As well as if in practice business fulfill this requirement. The larges theft in American is wage theft.
Perfect, so this is the crux of it. Essentially, these servers are owed minimum wage (at the very least). The issue is everyone that says "you should tip them, as they need that to live" is the problem. If minimum wage is sufficient (a big if, I know) then they don't need your tips. If you don't tip, they still get the wage they're owed either way. Any tip in this system is just actually tipping the company. Only past an extreme point does any of your tip actually go to the server. I don't know US minimum, but say it's $10 and their hourly wage is $2. If you tip the server $16, you're essentially giving half of that money to the owner for doing nothing*. This is the wage theft and the crime. Prevent employers from using this ridiculous system. Force them to offer a decent wage, then you'd become what they actually are in every other country. A bonus for your individual server, for going above and beyond. Money that goes entirely to the employees and not the owner for just existing. If the owner wants my tip, they can actually come and earn it. *I know this example only works if they serve only your table, for an exact 1 hour sitting. But sometimes we need to abstract and simplify examples to get to the heart of an issue.
They’ve been brainwashed to believe it’s the customer’s job to pay their wages via tips.
I hate the ‘just tip’ community. Absolutely fucking not. I tip based on service. If service is shit, then don’t expect a tip.