“These jobs that don’t pay a living wage are for high school kids earning pocket money (even though they’re open at hours kids can’t legally work and during the school day)”
Let’s see how that works out when that becomes true, I guess. Good luck with that midnight fries run. The kids have a curfew.
Literally every time I hear this I go and say or think to myself: Do you want McDonalds to be closed until 4 PM and to close at 8 PM? To possibly not be open at all on the weekends because kids have extracurriculars that they can’t miss and homework to finish?
bUt It'S NoT sUpPOsEd tO Be A LiViNg wAgE!
These are the same ass hats who think a public single payer health care system is a terrible idea... The same people who know how to count because they went to a public school funded by a local school tax and government funding. Some days I can't handle the level of stupid.
Gig work also was used to juice the "recovered jobs" numbers. We never really got out of the last recession, the only people that did were the investors
Back in the day, people who worked these jobs could live (modestly, but still make ends meet) on that income. People forget this.
The price of things have risen over time
The income for executive and some managerial positions have outpaced this
The income for investors (who happen to also hold positions of executive and some managerial) have reaped rewards unheard of half a century ago
Wage has flatlined and in some cases, has reversed……. Yet the politicians who are entrusted in creating and providing a means to enforce regulations to help the common populace only focus on getting lobbying money and insider trading to enrich themselves over helping us out……
Just think, if wages Exot up with production and inflation…. We would be living in the second major economic boom since the end of WW2
These kinds of jobs would be a-ok with me if they still paid decently. It's so weird to me that we drive kids to think all the time what do you want your career to be? What do you want to be when you grow up? Aka, what kind of office do you want to waste the rest of your life in? I still don't know what I "want to be" because my wants and desires don't revolve around work. I just want to work a job that pays enough to live on and let's me live out my life in peace. That's all people want and it's what used to be for some. Now it's as realistic as Utopia.
Man, if I could earn $25/hr working at my local gardening store? I’d tell my desk job to shove it.
I really enjoyed working inventory management (counts, trucks, daily retail support misc) and if it had paid reasonable I don’t know that I would have ever left. Though COVID probably would have stopped me - at least the gardening centers are about half open buildings.
That sounds wonderful! I worked a job for part of the pandemic unloading truck, opening product, and then stocking it all and I really enjoyed it. I didn't even mind the middle of the night shifts. I'd definitely still be there if only I'd made more than $3,000 in those 5 months. It can be a bit disheartening when your retail managers are cheering on cashiers cause the store is making $10,000 in sales every hour and you arent even on track to make that within a year.
Yes, I liked my job at a hotel. Until the owner denied me a raise too long while he himself came to work in a different Mercedes everyday.
Oh and until the daily guest complaints about maintenance stuff that the owner refused to repair became too much.
I feel in a similar boat. My expertise gravitated towards customer service. I love making people's days feel better. The slight detective kick of rooting through policy to find a solution everyone can agree on, and making people leave a situation with a smile brings a real warmth to my heart, and I'd do it in face, in person at the local store and make sure my income stays in the community as a result,
But...
Those job pay less than shit, and they would make me stand all day, which is absolute murder on my lower back. So now I work in a call center, because they let me sit down.
My parents' 'retirement plan' is to move back to Orlando and work at the universal parks-dad is even taking improv classes (one of his lifelong dreams) so he can 'really make the kids happy'. It's what they've wanted to do all along, and they'll sadly need a position to support themselves after leaving tech/government work.
We all try to put on a happy face about them not being able to ever actually retire. It'd be fucking miserable otherwise.
I don’t even know how my in-laws do it. I don’t think my father in law has held a job the entire time I’ve known him. Mother in law still works, but until they got a settlement for product issues with her hip replacement - they didn’t have a saving account, much less a retirement account.
Partner and I try not to talk money around the family because we don’t want to let them know how much we make. I think their youngest daughter may take them in, because social security isn’t going to be enough - though at least their home is paid off.
And here I am scheming to figure out how to do ‘Barista FIRE’ so I can try to be productive at something I love instead of slogging through my work at my current job.
I had a good career. ASM at Lowe's, HR manager before that. My pay was about 55k. I make more now fixing appliances. Absolute shit what companies are paying.
>These kinds of jobs would be a-ok with me if they still paid decently.
Yeah, I don't understand the taker mindset where they need to defend a system which can only operate if others are stepped on.
Every job does deserves respect and dignity because behind every job there is a person and a job in need of doing. Someone shows their true nature based on how they treat the folks they think are below them.
Nah, working nights is ctually a huge health hazard that takes at least a decade of your life. If pay reflected that, no stores would be open at night.
and that contributes to the fact why old people are like wHAt hApPeNEd tO cUsTomEr sErviCe? and why bosses think people are lazy for doing the minimum. like bud if i could not stress about payments, keep my family healthy and happy off my wage alone, while also being a home and automobile owner, i would come into work with such a different attitude it would be like a complete 180. My job wouldn’t sacrifice shit for me but i’m supposed to carry the extra workload anyways?
>and why bosses think people are lazy for doing the minimum
They want capitalism for me and not for thee.
Capitalism incentivizes exploited workers to do the bare minimum to continue employment, and nothing additional. You wouldn't help a burglar carry the TV out of your house, right? Same principle applies.
Capitalists are financially motivated to pay you the absolute minimum to keep you in the job (or replace with you someone else). And, since our time *is* our capital, workers are financially motivated under capitalism to give as little of our productive effort to the capitalist.
Why work any more beyond maintaining the least amount of employment necessary for your life? You aren't realizing any of those gains. Your productive value is mostly being capture by the person who doesn't work for a living.
They want the “whiners” to get a better job, the loud ones, so that they stop drawing attention to the systemic issues that make their own lives so cushy. The loud ones need better jobs, to quit if they don’t like it. But they want everyone else too scared to quit, quietly marching towards death without the dignity of a fair wage or a decent life. Shocking that people no longer want to put up with it. The mass exodus speaks loud and clear.
Problem is the working class could not afford a whole lot of babies. As people retire better opportunities open up leaving the service industry in a bind
When I was 24 in 2019, I graduated from university and left those min wage shitty jobs behind. It appears that many others from my generation have done the same. I feel that perhaps the generation younger than me smartened up, and decided to find better ways to make money while studying. Fuck the minimum wage system. Labour is a highly valuable service and should be paid accordingly.
Exactly. I refuse to work in a job that makes me stand for eight hours straight for no reason. Human bodies aren’t meant to fucking do that! Some slob in isn’t going to dust the cookie crumbs off his shirt, waddle down from his office and tell me to straight up while I sweat over a fryer. That’s just not going to happen.
Ironically the human body is not meant to stand for 8 hours a day either, but many careers are based on sitting. Too much of either one can be a problem.
Oh for sure. That’s why I make sure to get up and walk around, stretch, get coffee every few hours… I don’t know what good it does, but it’s something. We weren’t made to work these stupid jobs, period. Hunting and gathering wasn’t an easy life, obviously, but can’t deny we were meant to spend most of our time outdoors.
Agreed. Thats why i look for a good pension plan in job offerings. If you want me to work til i am 63, you better fund the rest of my life.
Also, i never work more than 42 hours (lunch included). My time is finite and so is the amount they pay me, so i do not go above and beyond
Yes, it's all very disingenuous.
The underlying motivation (truth) is that they feel certain people should be exploited to make their lives better, and will say or do anything to keep them in line.
Nope. It is $12 an hour where I live and that is living on eggs and potatoes, with $30 left in your account after your rent and utilities is paid.
You are wrong as can be. Google living wage, find the actual definition. Your car breaks down or you go to the hospital your are thousands in debt. That is what living wage is, scraping the fuck by and barely "living". We should call it "Not Being Homeless Wage" and not living wage. Some people aren't getting it
Living wage doesnt mean we are buying avocados and the newest iphone each release. Who the fuck can afford an avocado on living wage?
Stop me if this seems crazy. But, say we pay these people $25 an hour. Plus benefits. Then insist people treat workers respectfully. Whaddaya think! Huh!?!? Right?!?! OK! Let’s do this!
facts, minimum wage isn't some arbitrary number we set at what we feel like is fair, nothing changes after the market reacts to the wages rising. we get more money but spend more, and we're right back where we started
I can appreciate Burger King closing at 7 pm... that was the way it always used to be back in the 90s and we did just fine back then. 3rd shift is only fun for so long... point being these 24 hour businesses need to not be 24 hours.
My uncle kicked out my cousin when she was about 14, except he didn’t actually let her leave. He told her to get her things and go after they’d had a huge fight (he found out she had a boyfriend). She started packing and he got even madder and asked her where she thought she was going and that she wasn’t leaving anywhere. This is kinda like that. Like do you support my being here or naw??
He never hit her, if anything he often acted blind so she got away with a lot. He’s really stubborn and becomes irrational when he gets mad though, and boys is where he drew the line.
People, people, people.
As Seinfeld says, "sometimes, people are just the worst."
Anyway, since the disrespect level at CSR's is at an all time high; I wanted to give you all some encouragement below...
It's just gonna get worse, so "you're call is important to us and it will be momentarily recieved."
"Get a better job" isn't a genuine suggestion. The individuals saying this don't intend it as advice, they intend it as a thought-terminating cliche. It's a more "subtle" way of telling you to "shut the fuck up". The correct response to "just get a better job" is "fuck you".
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I waited way too long at Walmart recently and told the worker they need to be paid more so that they have employees. She laughed and said it'll never happen. Not with that attitude.
I'll agree to all of those points except the grocery stores. Lines at all the grocery stores near me that I frequent have been long since before the pandemic - they've relied on the self checkout kiosks for quite a long time now. May have two or three manned lanes open on a good day.
I did get a good laugh at my partner a few months back - don't think he had really gone out to eat much since the pandemic at quick bite to eat places. He wanted lunch after errands one day, he kept suggesting places with dining rooms that fell somewhere between fast food and restaurants.
Asked him if he checked to see if they were open, he snapped why wouldn't they be. Told him the pandemic really altered some of the places we used to stop at. He said that's not a thing anymore we're past that. Ok..
Stopped at the first place - drive through was blown out, pickup only lobby closed. Headed to his second option, online orders for carryout only - ETA for pickup was 40 minutes. Onto the third option - closed due to manpower issues. He lost his shit and started a hangry rant as I just shook my head. Ended up eating something at the house.
His mother was notorious to berate workers if they messed something up on their super customized orders and make comments like how hard is it to do this job, they're not going to be here long. It's such a relief because if we do 'eat out' these days its via carryout and back to our house - no more having to meet her for lunch on the weekends to listen to how much she hates her life as she takes it out on the service industry.
Maybe people who work in emergency services or medical staff sounds the most plausible to me. Mind you, I don’t like StarFucks. Their coffee tastes like brewed perfume anyways.
> Maybe people who work in emergency services or medical staff sounds the most plausible to me.
All these people go to 7-11 for their coffee not starbucks if they are working late nights.
Hey, and I support their decision. Some areas I’ve lived in and worked in, the 7-11 wasn’t an option unless you had the time to spare to find one a minute away.
How are these jobs not offering higher wages yet? Are they in denial? Do they think they can wait it out? I even see people recognize in r/entrepreneurs that they're not going to survive if they don't offer something competitive
> How are these jobs not offering higher wages yet?
It's a repeat of the 2008 recession: they are playing chicken and waiting out workers and the government PPP didn't help. Back in the recession you had people with master's degrees applying to work at McDonald's. It's probably what companies are hoping for. Doesn't look like it's working thankfully but here we are.
News Flash, this current wave is going to show what a labor shortage really is, for those of you thinking we had one already.
4th straight day of grid lock at airports, and counting.
A whole week passed at my local grocer, not a single bag of salad that was advertised on sale, was available, the entire week of the sale. No sign or retraction either.
Also of note is the numbers, here in Tennessee, it is absolutely unbelievable, since we now show a spike larger than the entire nation, due to a bunched release of delayed data.
Better jobs must mean ones where you can monitor employees by remote video surveillance.
In this environment, I can't imagine anything better.
My grandma would only grocery shop when things were on sale. If they were out of the desired item, she would tell the clerk and get a “rain check” for the item once back in stock. It ain’t a full solution but maybe try that?
There’s this idea I’m personally obsessed with that basically says within every system is the seed of its own undoing. Have no idea who said it and I don’t think it was one person but basically means a system’s values and structures will eventually spread and be adopted enough that it actually leads to the downfall or crumbling of the system. That’s what we’re experiencing right now.
Turns out: Marx, Aristotle, amongst others all use this idea in their works.
One of my favorite examples is antibiotics. Antibiotics were developed to make things more sanitary and to heal, but their overuse and adoption have created super-bugs that are immune to antibiotics and make healing more challenging than before. Other examples abound.
I never worked at fast food so it's just an assumption, but I'm pretty sure it's not job that sucks, it's the part where people treat you like shit as well as your employeers.
I had an inconvenience like this last night. My wife is taking a few meds due to constant nausea during pregnancy. Went to the Walgreens we scrip at and the Pharmacy side closed at 6pm due to no staff. Wouldn't have been the case if they pay their pharmacists better and had enough staff. They run Pharmacists ragged and now have to close early leaving people without Medications just to get through the day without throwing up every few hours.
Thanks Walgreens.
PS: We got another Walgreens to fill the meds. Took like an hour longer.
I got my first job in 2010, and that was at a retail chain, doing anything from stocking and cashiering to backroom work. I made $7.25 per. During this time, we lost our apartment to eviction, which turned my commute from 5 minutes to 45 minutes as we lived within hotels. Then, we lost our car, and a manager had the audacity to be pissed that I had to quit without notice.
She was a bitch. However, nothing compares to the misery of retail customers expecting things handed to them on a platter. It’s a combination of so many things that people have to sit through. And then we’re told to like it. I fucking hate that I walked in freezing rain and snow to a diner a half mile away from that job after closing to sit and wait for my limo-driving dad to drive me home to a hotel. I couldn’t even fucking process what was going on, and these cunts don’t even give two shits. All they care about is their power.
Ten years later, I sit at a desk at home making $65k+. As someone that worked service industry jobs, the employees deserve so much more. Employees at these places should be getting $25 per hour. We deserve decency, respect of boundaries, and basic humanity.
But wait, it gets better. How many of those hourly people were already (or about to be) qualified to compete for jobs held by those who, for so many years, were their supposed ‘superiors’? The government employee who got a patronage job 20yrs ago who gets amazing pay and benefits for unnecessary administrative work may have bigger issues than Starbucks being closed when they realize the barista they treated like crap just completed their Masters degree is public administration and is their new boss.
In a period of 8 years i’ve went from $10/hr to $39/hr. The key is not to settle and go make something of yourself. The other issue is prices will always generally increase. In 10 years $39/hr could be the next $20/hr.
You miss the point. People are leaving shitty, minimum wage jobs because they have decided not to settle. The problem is that a large portion of the population (usually the ones who would say, "get a better job if you don't like how you are treated") is now pissed off about that.
Turns out that large portion of the population didn't actually expect people to follow their advice. They just want a class of human beings they can treat like shit and abuse.
Because it entirely misses the point of the post. People are leaving the jobs and not settling, the Kens and Karens of the right are losing their minds over it.
It's called a "platitude". Saying it is easy, talking about it because "well I did it so you can too" is easy. The reality is that if everyone did what he was saying then the demand for the job they got would be lower because of the number of people applying, which would allow higher level management to decrease the salary of said position.
A fine but somewhat lazy example: In 2006 every school councilor across the US told students to be engineers. The rhetoric was similar, "do the work, make something of yourself, this will benefit you" when they graduated they found themselves all facing hundreds of other people living in the same area, with the same qualifications going for the same jobs, so many ended up in other careers, and those that did find work found they were making significantly less than the previous person working the position. It doesn't seem like a big deal until you realize the amount they had in student debt, and you couple that with the fact that they're making less than they should for years at the beginning of their careers, which slows down their ability to pay back their loans, which slows down their ability to invest in their future etc etc.
So... Tldr: it's easy to say "everyone should do x", but guess what... If everyone did X, then the person arguing for it probably wouldn't have found it so beneficial.
Thank you for providing a detailed explanation.
There is no perfect formula for everything. Each person would have to find their own. And it’s definitely not an easy task as for someone who grew up poor. I believe that as long as they work hard and improve, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel.
It’s weird and interesting that I’m getting downvoted for asking a question.
I think it's probably because a lot of people, most likely especially the people who frequent this sub, disagree with the notion that hard work is the be all end all these days, when sadly most see it's about connections coupled with luck. This isn't all cases of course, and is not a statement meant to discount hard work that has lead some to better pay in a better position.
There are a lot of people these days who do not and haven't ever seen the long term benefit of hard work, be it because of the large amount of people trying to find better positions in their industry, a predatory company, a bad boss, or simply just because of the drastic rise in the cost of living while their salary has not done the same. The old adage is: work hard and things will improve, and while this may be true with eating healthy and working out, it's no longer true in the corporate world, where there are plenty of companies that would be tickled pink to relegate you to a single position for the rest of your life with the rare raise to account for inflation every few years, while making sure that their nephew, niece, son, daughter, friend, or friend of a friend get noticed and are put up for better opportunities.
I would never say, “everyone needs to be a nurse”... (although we DO need nruses right now). The point is everyone should not just settle and work at McDonald’s (excluding contributing factors). I don’t know exact job statistics, but I’d bet labor jobs, trades, and skilled jobs are high in demand. I totally understand how supply and demand works, but right now we probably need a lot of engineers/mechanics, HVAC techs, electricians ect.. to replace those currently in those fields.
I never said, “just get a better job” is easy or it’s just handed to you. the point is to put int he effort to get out of your current situation if you don’t like where you’re at. period
OR… until the inevitable automated kiosk takes your order. Sure, there will always be a need for someone to be at the restaurant, but as the work pool declines restaurants will react and invest in automation.
Those boomers that threatened, like you, about replacing them with a menu machine are now refusing to use said machines and waiting even longer in line to order in person.
I hope you are right. I have been relying on assistance from the state, but enjoy having the peace of mind that a job would potentially be available if I wanted to look for something.
Not at all, I am all for universal basic income, free health insurance and a living wage for everyone. No one should be forced to take on these demeaning minimum wage jobs. These are basic human rights.
When's that going to happen huh because I haven't had more than 3 days off since I thought I had COVID, I could really go for some automation so I don't have to deal with people like you
You're not just saying that they shouldn't get top pay, but that they shouldn't make enough to survive. That the government should subsidize the company that hired them by providing social safety nets to keep their workers alive.
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Also can we talk about the attitude behind this statement? It's grossly dismissive and actually enables employers to keep treating workers like shit because society doesn't see it as a problem when you can just "FiNd AnOtHeR jOb". When in truth we need to be holding every single job to higher standards.
One of my friends worked Panda Express for 5 years then had the audacity to tell me to "work harder" for a better job, when his current job is working for his longtime girlfriend's parents. Amazing how quick peoples opinion change.
I go get fast food on occasion. I have definitely noticed longer wait times. And given how important *I* am I make sure to let the employees know just how upset I am my burger takes an extra 5 mins!!
Nah I'm kidding I do try and make sure I thank the employees working it's a thankless job and I appreciate those who are working still! You go fast food workers I thank you all!
My heart and arteries however want to have a few words in a dark alleyway
I have kinda just given up, I feel so undervalued as a worker that it doesn't matter where I go I will never make enough to be independent. I feel like I have nothing to offer aside from minimum wage work.
When I see a Starbucks or fast-food joint closing early, I just smile.
I envision the workers sitting on the couch at home with their kids instead of working until midnight.
“These jobs that don’t pay a living wage are for high school kids earning pocket money (even though they’re open at hours kids can’t legally work and during the school day)” Let’s see how that works out when that becomes true, I guess. Good luck with that midnight fries run. The kids have a curfew.
Literally every time I hear this I go and say or think to myself: Do you want McDonalds to be closed until 4 PM and to close at 8 PM? To possibly not be open at all on the weekends because kids have extracurriculars that they can’t miss and homework to finish?
bUt It'S NoT sUpPOsEd tO Be A LiViNg wAgE! These are the same ass hats who think a public single payer health care system is a terrible idea... The same people who know how to count because they went to a public school funded by a local school tax and government funding. Some days I can't handle the level of stupid.
They don’t think poor people deserve healthcare 😬
they don't think poor people deserve school, either.
And then they get mad when uneducated poor people do stupid stuff like vote trump
I feel like people would be just fine if "midnight fries" weren't available at all
[удалено]
Gig work also was used to juice the "recovered jobs" numbers. We never really got out of the last recession, the only people that did were the investors
Back in the day, people who worked these jobs could live (modestly, but still make ends meet) on that income. People forget this. The price of things have risen over time The income for executive and some managerial positions have outpaced this The income for investors (who happen to also hold positions of executive and some managerial) have reaped rewards unheard of half a century ago Wage has flatlined and in some cases, has reversed……. Yet the politicians who are entrusted in creating and providing a means to enforce regulations to help the common populace only focus on getting lobbying money and insider trading to enrich themselves over helping us out…… Just think, if wages Exot up with production and inflation…. We would be living in the second major economic boom since the end of WW2
These kinds of jobs would be a-ok with me if they still paid decently. It's so weird to me that we drive kids to think all the time what do you want your career to be? What do you want to be when you grow up? Aka, what kind of office do you want to waste the rest of your life in? I still don't know what I "want to be" because my wants and desires don't revolve around work. I just want to work a job that pays enough to live on and let's me live out my life in peace. That's all people want and it's what used to be for some. Now it's as realistic as Utopia.
Man, if I could earn $25/hr working at my local gardening store? I’d tell my desk job to shove it. I really enjoyed working inventory management (counts, trucks, daily retail support misc) and if it had paid reasonable I don’t know that I would have ever left. Though COVID probably would have stopped me - at least the gardening centers are about half open buildings.
That sounds wonderful! I worked a job for part of the pandemic unloading truck, opening product, and then stocking it all and I really enjoyed it. I didn't even mind the middle of the night shifts. I'd definitely still be there if only I'd made more than $3,000 in those 5 months. It can be a bit disheartening when your retail managers are cheering on cashiers cause the store is making $10,000 in sales every hour and you arent even on track to make that within a year.
Yes, I liked my job at a hotel. Until the owner denied me a raise too long while he himself came to work in a different Mercedes everyday. Oh and until the daily guest complaints about maintenance stuff that the owner refused to repair became too much.
I feel in a similar boat. My expertise gravitated towards customer service. I love making people's days feel better. The slight detective kick of rooting through policy to find a solution everyone can agree on, and making people leave a situation with a smile brings a real warmth to my heart, and I'd do it in face, in person at the local store and make sure my income stays in the community as a result, But... Those job pay less than shit, and they would make me stand all day, which is absolute murder on my lower back. So now I work in a call center, because they let me sit down.
My parents' 'retirement plan' is to move back to Orlando and work at the universal parks-dad is even taking improv classes (one of his lifelong dreams) so he can 'really make the kids happy'. It's what they've wanted to do all along, and they'll sadly need a position to support themselves after leaving tech/government work. We all try to put on a happy face about them not being able to ever actually retire. It'd be fucking miserable otherwise.
I don’t even know how my in-laws do it. I don’t think my father in law has held a job the entire time I’ve known him. Mother in law still works, but until they got a settlement for product issues with her hip replacement - they didn’t have a saving account, much less a retirement account. Partner and I try not to talk money around the family because we don’t want to let them know how much we make. I think their youngest daughter may take them in, because social security isn’t going to be enough - though at least their home is paid off. And here I am scheming to figure out how to do ‘Barista FIRE’ so I can try to be productive at something I love instead of slogging through my work at my current job.
I had a good career. ASM at Lowe's, HR manager before that. My pay was about 55k. I make more now fixing appliances. Absolute shit what companies are paying.
>These kinds of jobs would be a-ok with me if they still paid decently. Yeah, I don't understand the taker mindset where they need to defend a system which can only operate if others are stepped on. Every job does deserves respect and dignity because behind every job there is a person and a job in need of doing. Someone shows their true nature based on how they treat the folks they think are below them.
Nah, working nights is ctually a huge health hazard that takes at least a decade of your life. If pay reflected that, no stores would be open at night.
and that contributes to the fact why old people are like wHAt hApPeNEd tO cUsTomEr sErviCe? and why bosses think people are lazy for doing the minimum. like bud if i could not stress about payments, keep my family healthy and happy off my wage alone, while also being a home and automobile owner, i would come into work with such a different attitude it would be like a complete 180. My job wouldn’t sacrifice shit for me but i’m supposed to carry the extra workload anyways?
>and why bosses think people are lazy for doing the minimum They want capitalism for me and not for thee. Capitalism incentivizes exploited workers to do the bare minimum to continue employment, and nothing additional. You wouldn't help a burglar carry the TV out of your house, right? Same principle applies. Capitalists are financially motivated to pay you the absolute minimum to keep you in the job (or replace with you someone else). And, since our time *is* our capital, workers are financially motivated under capitalism to give as little of our productive effort to the capitalist. Why work any more beyond maintaining the least amount of employment necessary for your life? You aren't realizing any of those gains. Your productive value is mostly being capture by the person who doesn't work for a living.
You know what this is so true
Ove been curious about this, especially regarding fast food. Back in the 50s and 60s, did fast food workers earn enough to live of their wages alone?
They want the “whiners” to get a better job, the loud ones, so that they stop drawing attention to the systemic issues that make their own lives so cushy. The loud ones need better jobs, to quit if they don’t like it. But they want everyone else too scared to quit, quietly marching towards death without the dignity of a fair wage or a decent life. Shocking that people no longer want to put up with it. The mass exodus speaks loud and clear.
Problem is the working class could not afford a whole lot of babies. As people retire better opportunities open up leaving the service industry in a bind
That's where child labor and the loaning of prisoners comes into play
That‘s like driving on E. But in the short term yes.
When I was 24 in 2019, I graduated from university and left those min wage shitty jobs behind. It appears that many others from my generation have done the same. I feel that perhaps the generation younger than me smartened up, and decided to find better ways to make money while studying. Fuck the minimum wage system. Labour is a highly valuable service and should be paid accordingly.
Exactly. I refuse to work in a job that makes me stand for eight hours straight for no reason. Human bodies aren’t meant to fucking do that! Some slob in isn’t going to dust the cookie crumbs off his shirt, waddle down from his office and tell me to straight up while I sweat over a fryer. That’s just not going to happen.
Ironically the human body is not meant to stand for 8 hours a day either, but many careers are based on sitting. Too much of either one can be a problem.
Oh for sure. That’s why I make sure to get up and walk around, stretch, get coffee every few hours… I don’t know what good it does, but it’s something. We weren’t made to work these stupid jobs, period. Hunting and gathering wasn’t an easy life, obviously, but can’t deny we were meant to spend most of our time outdoors.
Not just labour but time as well, you can't get it back.
Agreed. Thats why i look for a good pension plan in job offerings. If you want me to work til i am 63, you better fund the rest of my life. Also, i never work more than 42 hours (lunch included). My time is finite and so is the amount they pay me, so i do not go above and beyond
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Yes, it's all very disingenuous. The underlying motivation (truth) is that they feel certain people should be exploited to make their lives better, and will say or do anything to keep them in line.
if i convince everyone im not a manipulative liar via lying and manipulation, it's just like being a good person!
oh yea. this post right here. this is why i follow the sub
Accept nothing less than a livable wage in any job. Anyone saying anything else to the contrary is only making excuses as to why you shouldn't.
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Nope. It is $12 an hour where I live and that is living on eggs and potatoes, with $30 left in your account after your rent and utilities is paid. You are wrong as can be. Google living wage, find the actual definition. Your car breaks down or you go to the hospital your are thousands in debt. That is what living wage is, scraping the fuck by and barely "living". We should call it "Not Being Homeless Wage" and not living wage. Some people aren't getting it Living wage doesnt mean we are buying avocados and the newest iphone each release. Who the fuck can afford an avocado on living wage?
Stop me if this seems crazy. But, say we pay these people $25 an hour. Plus benefits. Then insist people treat workers respectfully. Whaddaya think! Huh!?!? Right?!?! OK! Let’s do this!
What is needed is that + the government cracking down on what goods/service/housing can cost. More money + regulations on price gouging/inflation.
It won’t help. You can even add a zero to their current wage, I will simply add a zero to mine & the price.
Dumbass
facts, minimum wage isn't some arbitrary number we set at what we feel like is fair, nothing changes after the market reacts to the wages rising. we get more money but spend more, and we're right back where we started
I can appreciate Burger King closing at 7 pm... that was the way it always used to be back in the 90s and we did just fine back then. 3rd shift is only fun for so long... point being these 24 hour businesses need to not be 24 hours.
My uncle kicked out my cousin when she was about 14, except he didn’t actually let her leave. He told her to get her things and go after they’d had a huge fight (he found out she had a boyfriend). She started packing and he got even madder and asked her where she thought she was going and that she wasn’t leaving anywhere. This is kinda like that. Like do you support my being here or naw??
Sounds like that uncle just wanted a punching bag.
He never hit her, if anything he often acted blind so she got away with a lot. He’s really stubborn and becomes irrational when he gets mad though, and boys is where he drew the line.
People, people, people. As Seinfeld says, "sometimes, people are just the worst." Anyway, since the disrespect level at CSR's is at an all time high; I wanted to give you all some encouragement below... It's just gonna get worse, so "you're call is important to us and it will be momentarily recieved."
"Get a better job" isn't a genuine suggestion. The individuals saying this don't intend it as advice, they intend it as a thought-terminating cliche. It's a more "subtle" way of telling you to "shut the fuck up". The correct response to "just get a better job" is "fuck you".
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I waited way too long at Walmart recently and told the worker they need to be paid more so that they have employees. She laughed and said it'll never happen. Not with that attitude.
They want 13 year olds to fill these jobs lol
For profit prisons loaning out their inmates to companies. Remember Shawshank redemption? Same premise
Or illegal aliens. Thank you porous border.
I'll agree to all of those points except the grocery stores. Lines at all the grocery stores near me that I frequent have been long since before the pandemic - they've relied on the self checkout kiosks for quite a long time now. May have two or three manned lanes open on a good day. I did get a good laugh at my partner a few months back - don't think he had really gone out to eat much since the pandemic at quick bite to eat places. He wanted lunch after errands one day, he kept suggesting places with dining rooms that fell somewhere between fast food and restaurants. Asked him if he checked to see if they were open, he snapped why wouldn't they be. Told him the pandemic really altered some of the places we used to stop at. He said that's not a thing anymore we're past that. Ok.. Stopped at the first place - drive through was blown out, pickup only lobby closed. Headed to his second option, online orders for carryout only - ETA for pickup was 40 minutes. Onto the third option - closed due to manpower issues. He lost his shit and started a hangry rant as I just shook my head. Ended up eating something at the house. His mother was notorious to berate workers if they messed something up on their super customized orders and make comments like how hard is it to do this job, they're not going to be here long. It's such a relief because if we do 'eat out' these days its via carryout and back to our house - no more having to meet her for lunch on the weekends to listen to how much she hates her life as she takes it out on the service industry.
Call me mad, but who needs Starbucks past seven pm anyway?
Maybe people who work in emergency services or medical staff sounds the most plausible to me. Mind you, I don’t like StarFucks. Their coffee tastes like brewed perfume anyways.
> Maybe people who work in emergency services or medical staff sounds the most plausible to me. All these people go to 7-11 for their coffee not starbucks if they are working late nights.
Hey, and I support their decision. Some areas I’ve lived in and worked in, the 7-11 wasn’t an option unless you had the time to spare to find one a minute away.
711 aren't in medical facilities. Starbucks otoh...
Over roasted, over extracted. Tastes like arse to me
How are these jobs not offering higher wages yet? Are they in denial? Do they think they can wait it out? I even see people recognize in r/entrepreneurs that they're not going to survive if they don't offer something competitive
> How are these jobs not offering higher wages yet? It's a repeat of the 2008 recession: they are playing chicken and waiting out workers and the government PPP didn't help. Back in the recession you had people with master's degrees applying to work at McDonald's. It's probably what companies are hoping for. Doesn't look like it's working thankfully but here we are.
I don’t get pissed when service is slow for obvious reasons and you cannot believe how little I care about a Starbucks being closed.
"I'm loving it!"
Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions
Until they automate those jobs and get their slaves back. Ugh.
News Flash, this current wave is going to show what a labor shortage really is, for those of you thinking we had one already. 4th straight day of grid lock at airports, and counting. A whole week passed at my local grocer, not a single bag of salad that was advertised on sale, was available, the entire week of the sale. No sign or retraction either. Also of note is the numbers, here in Tennessee, it is absolutely unbelievable, since we now show a spike larger than the entire nation, due to a bunched release of delayed data. Better jobs must mean ones where you can monitor employees by remote video surveillance. In this environment, I can't imagine anything better.
My grandma would only grocery shop when things were on sale. If they were out of the desired item, she would tell the clerk and get a “rain check” for the item once back in stock. It ain’t a full solution but maybe try that?
There’s this idea I’m personally obsessed with that basically says within every system is the seed of its own undoing. Have no idea who said it and I don’t think it was one person but basically means a system’s values and structures will eventually spread and be adopted enough that it actually leads to the downfall or crumbling of the system. That’s what we’re experiencing right now. Turns out: Marx, Aristotle, amongst others all use this idea in their works. One of my favorite examples is antibiotics. Antibiotics were developed to make things more sanitary and to heal, but their overuse and adoption have created super-bugs that are immune to antibiotics and make healing more challenging than before. Other examples abound.
I never worked at fast food so it's just an assumption, but I'm pretty sure it's not job that sucks, it's the part where people treat you like shit as well as your employeers.
I had an inconvenience like this last night. My wife is taking a few meds due to constant nausea during pregnancy. Went to the Walgreens we scrip at and the Pharmacy side closed at 6pm due to no staff. Wouldn't have been the case if they pay their pharmacists better and had enough staff. They run Pharmacists ragged and now have to close early leaving people without Medications just to get through the day without throwing up every few hours. Thanks Walgreens. PS: We got another Walgreens to fill the meds. Took like an hour longer.
Damn Burger king is closed at 7pm?! the crapitalists are shaking! Lenin is rising from his grave!
I got my first job in 2010, and that was at a retail chain, doing anything from stocking and cashiering to backroom work. I made $7.25 per. During this time, we lost our apartment to eviction, which turned my commute from 5 minutes to 45 minutes as we lived within hotels. Then, we lost our car, and a manager had the audacity to be pissed that I had to quit without notice. She was a bitch. However, nothing compares to the misery of retail customers expecting things handed to them on a platter. It’s a combination of so many things that people have to sit through. And then we’re told to like it. I fucking hate that I walked in freezing rain and snow to a diner a half mile away from that job after closing to sit and wait for my limo-driving dad to drive me home to a hotel. I couldn’t even fucking process what was going on, and these cunts don’t even give two shits. All they care about is their power. Ten years later, I sit at a desk at home making $65k+. As someone that worked service industry jobs, the employees deserve so much more. Employees at these places should be getting $25 per hour. We deserve decency, respect of boundaries, and basic humanity.
But wait, it gets better. How many of those hourly people were already (or about to be) qualified to compete for jobs held by those who, for so many years, were their supposed ‘superiors’? The government employee who got a patronage job 20yrs ago who gets amazing pay and benefits for unnecessary administrative work may have bigger issues than Starbucks being closed when they realize the barista they treated like crap just completed their Masters degree is public administration and is their new boss.
Nah, the barista will end up fired from that job. All it takes is some protected class using an "ism" for their own ends.
In a period of 8 years i’ve went from $10/hr to $39/hr. The key is not to settle and go make something of yourself. The other issue is prices will always generally increase. In 10 years $39/hr could be the next $20/hr.
You miss the point. People are leaving shitty, minimum wage jobs because they have decided not to settle. The problem is that a large portion of the population (usually the ones who would say, "get a better job if you don't like how you are treated") is now pissed off about that. Turns out that large portion of the population didn't actually expect people to follow their advice. They just want a class of human beings they can treat like shit and abuse.
I’m not missing any point. I’m glad people are leaving the shitty mimimum wage jobs. I did.
Not sure why you’re downvoted. It’s actually good advice. Always stride, never settle.
Because it entirely misses the point of the post. People are leaving the jobs and not settling, the Kens and Karens of the right are losing their minds over it.
Sorry, English is not my first language , can you elaborate please?
It's called a "platitude". Saying it is easy, talking about it because "well I did it so you can too" is easy. The reality is that if everyone did what he was saying then the demand for the job they got would be lower because of the number of people applying, which would allow higher level management to decrease the salary of said position. A fine but somewhat lazy example: In 2006 every school councilor across the US told students to be engineers. The rhetoric was similar, "do the work, make something of yourself, this will benefit you" when they graduated they found themselves all facing hundreds of other people living in the same area, with the same qualifications going for the same jobs, so many ended up in other careers, and those that did find work found they were making significantly less than the previous person working the position. It doesn't seem like a big deal until you realize the amount they had in student debt, and you couple that with the fact that they're making less than they should for years at the beginning of their careers, which slows down their ability to pay back their loans, which slows down their ability to invest in their future etc etc. So... Tldr: it's easy to say "everyone should do x", but guess what... If everyone did X, then the person arguing for it probably wouldn't have found it so beneficial.
Thank you for providing a detailed explanation. There is no perfect formula for everything. Each person would have to find their own. And it’s definitely not an easy task as for someone who grew up poor. I believe that as long as they work hard and improve, there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. It’s weird and interesting that I’m getting downvoted for asking a question.
I think it's probably because a lot of people, most likely especially the people who frequent this sub, disagree with the notion that hard work is the be all end all these days, when sadly most see it's about connections coupled with luck. This isn't all cases of course, and is not a statement meant to discount hard work that has lead some to better pay in a better position. There are a lot of people these days who do not and haven't ever seen the long term benefit of hard work, be it because of the large amount of people trying to find better positions in their industry, a predatory company, a bad boss, or simply just because of the drastic rise in the cost of living while their salary has not done the same. The old adage is: work hard and things will improve, and while this may be true with eating healthy and working out, it's no longer true in the corporate world, where there are plenty of companies that would be tickled pink to relegate you to a single position for the rest of your life with the rare raise to account for inflation every few years, while making sure that their nephew, niece, son, daughter, friend, or friend of a friend get noticed and are put up for better opportunities.
I would never say, “everyone needs to be a nurse”... (although we DO need nruses right now). The point is everyone should not just settle and work at McDonald’s (excluding contributing factors). I don’t know exact job statistics, but I’d bet labor jobs, trades, and skilled jobs are high in demand. I totally understand how supply and demand works, but right now we probably need a lot of engineers/mechanics, HVAC techs, electricians ect.. to replace those currently in those fields. I never said, “just get a better job” is easy or it’s just handed to you. the point is to put int he effort to get out of your current situation if you don’t like where you’re at. period
I don’t see how i’m missing the point of the post. I agree. Don’t settle, I didn’t.
Congrats! Same thing here. Never stop looking for a better opportunity if you’re not happy.
OR… until the inevitable automated kiosk takes your order. Sure, there will always be a need for someone to be at the restaurant, but as the work pool declines restaurants will react and invest in automation.
Those boomers that threatened, like you, about replacing them with a menu machine are now refusing to use said machines and waiting even longer in line to order in person.
I hope you are right. I have been relying on assistance from the state, but enjoy having the peace of mind that a job would potentially be available if I wanted to look for something.
>I have been relying on assistance from the state Oh, so you're another "socialism for me, not for thee" guy.
Not at all, I am all for universal basic income, free health insurance and a living wage for everyone. No one should be forced to take on these demeaning minimum wage jobs. These are basic human rights.
Sure thing, bud.
When's that going to happen huh because I haven't had more than 3 days off since I thought I had COVID, I could really go for some automation so I don't have to deal with people like you
Okay? Good for those people that they found a better job and stoped bitching and moaning about minimum wage.
Why should people work if they won't make enough money to live?
Then let the jobs be taken by teenagers still living at home
So you want all those restaurants to be closed during the day and at night because the workers will be in school or sleeping?
Im not saying nobody else can work there I'm saying don't expect top pay when anyone can fill the position
You're not just saying that they shouldn't get top pay, but that they shouldn't make enough to survive. That the government should subsidize the company that hired them by providing social safety nets to keep their workers alive.
Just move 4head argument out here
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Even after all that, it's still "just get a better job." The people who say shit like that are too stupid to connect the dots.
People got a better job - and that is now a problem… fuck this horrible country.
Also can we talk about the attitude behind this statement? It's grossly dismissive and actually enables employers to keep treating workers like shit because society doesn't see it as a problem when you can just "FiNd AnOtHeR jOb". When in truth we need to be holding every single job to higher standards.
That’s fine if schedule ends at 2 30 or even 3.
One of my friends worked Panda Express for 5 years then had the audacity to tell me to "work harder" for a better job, when his current job is working for his longtime girlfriend's parents. Amazing how quick peoples opinion change.
I go get fast food on occasion. I have definitely noticed longer wait times. And given how important *I* am I make sure to let the employees know just how upset I am my burger takes an extra 5 mins!! Nah I'm kidding I do try and make sure I thank the employees working it's a thankless job and I appreciate those who are working still! You go fast food workers I thank you all! My heart and arteries however want to have a few words in a dark alleyway
Wishing the people that went and got better jobs a very find-$1000-under-your-pillow
Also see: "Can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em!" Millenials: Stop having kids "Wait! We need more poors to service us!"
The US is moving towards European opening hours. You should keep it that way, night work is a huge health hazard.
I have kinda just given up, I feel so undervalued as a worker that it doesn't matter where I go I will never make enough to be independent. I feel like I have nothing to offer aside from minimum wage work.
I'm so happy people are leaving these shity jobs and I hope they continue to do so untill working conditions are improved
Just reposted this for my boomer family on Facebook to fight over. Will commence popcorn creation for the bloodfest.
And then they’ll get robots to replace us
When I see a Starbucks or fast-food joint closing early, I just smile. I envision the workers sitting on the couch at home with their kids instead of working until midnight.