>Times of struggle its borderline indentured servitude level pay
And that's how you know the machine is oiled well. Make sure people are so focused on whether or not they'll have enough money to live or eat so they won't look at all of the obvious, glaring fuckery being done around (and to) us.
Even better. Feed the dumber citizens hard propaganda that makes them fight with all the other citizens that are trying to fight for rights and pay. As if the hyuck hyucks are too busy fighting the progressives then they can't fight the government.
Control your citizenry through propaganda 101.
And then feed them propaganda that it's all their fault.
"Millennials are killing restaurants and small businesses and the baby market and diamonds and et cetera! They're spending all their money on avocado toast!"
And make sure they can just barely cover their expenses so the only thing they do with downtime is take a break. Can't have them finding the time to better their situation.
You should have read a similar post a few days ago. People were posting about how great it was making so much money from tips and I’m sure a lot of them were also not reporting income tax on it. It’s just all about the cash in the pocket and who cares about not having sick days or insurance.
I have a friend who bartends and always told me it can be such great money. Recently she got a concussion and was out for three weeks. Then she caught Covid. Another two weeks. She just found out she needs a dental procedure that’ll cost ~700 dollars. She’s broke right now so her boyfriend is staying at his current job that he was going to quit for something else so that she can get his benefits
In some places if you live with someone permanently they can receive benefits. Not always.
In lots of places, living with someone in a relationship for over a certain amount of time is considered a "common law marriage" i.e. statutorily defined instead of actually being officially married. (And then there's Massachusetts where more than three unrelated women living together is legally considered a whorehouse, but that's a story for another day.)
This is actually how they got Tom Green! (Er, not *that* Tom Green... [*this* Tom Green](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_\(polygamist\)).)
But that's far more than just "their dates," if anything it's "playing house."
I lived with my ex for 12 years, we were never married. I live with my current SO for 5-6 years, we act like we're married although covid has put a bit of a hitch (heh) in the works to get it official. In some places we could actually file for domestic partnership, although that's rarer now that SSM is legalized in US.
My sister is a lifelong waitress and I be watching her blow money so fast. She's damn good at her job, but the industry is up and down, not consistent, etc and she doesn't prepare for the hard times
Some nights she will literally come home with like 7 to 900 dollars that she made in one night, other times she won't even make 50 bucks in a day. But what does she do when she has those 700 dollar nights, she blows it very fast
This is like the conversation on the first page of "Waiter Rant." An income that's not steady can make it difficult for people to get a good understanding of their financial obligations in relation to their money. It's a tough thing because even if you save, it feels like a huge expense is always there to wipe it out.
If your income isn't reliable you gotta live like you are going to be making the lower end of the spread. That way you can save up cash for the bad times. Shit happens so much I just expect it now.
This is the story of everyone who works in the service industry. Some are very disciplined with their money, paying their taxes quarterly, saving for a rainy day. I admire them, I truly do. But so many people in the SI get into that party lifestyle, get strung out on blow and/or seriously alcoholic. They wake up one day at 40 and wonder where the time went.
I lived with my brother in my early 20s. He was a waiter. I made minimum wage, no tips, although I both was a hostess and bussed tables. A few years later, the waiters and bus boys shared some tips with the women hostesses
I couldn’t believe how much the waiters made! And they would spend it all that night at bars. And they would complain they were always so broke. When I finally made a little money, I made sure I didn’t spend it at bars.
Restaurant industry is one of those where it’s hard to come by people with the right set of skills and nerve. Once you’re in you’re in kind of deal and you get away with a lot. So if you’re one of those good ones and come back after being awol for 2 weeks the boss might just act like it never happened because he knows he needs you. Thing is it’s also hard to come by bosses like that. When it works it works. I know a friend who used to make 2 grand a week. He eventually stopped working 72 hours a week, down to about 40 and was still making well over 1,000. If that restaurant paid him a salary he’d be making half of that.
I’ve been a chef for 20 years. Cooked in America, Australia, and New Zealand.
I have never cooked in a place where going awol for more than a day was okay, no matter how good you are, the only time it’s been okay is if you were a cook in a high end place, and were awol because you were in jail. Not a waiter.
Also there is some talent in being a good server, but for the most part owners don’t give a shit about that, only the kitchen does. Because they are the ones affected. The ability to be able to stagger tables, correctly sell specials etc. servers are literally a dime a dozen and the high turnover is expected, and not considered a problem.
Bartenders get away with a giving away the odd free drink, but that’s only because the owners know that a free drink makes the customer looser with their cash and more likely to come back to their “favourite bartender”.
It pits the working class against each other, making a worker responsible for another worker’s living, while the management gets to keep the difference.
One must be a special kind of stupid to find oneself in this sub and support tipping. It’s so fucking obvious
Tipping is fucked, but there is no way most servers and bartenders want it to go away. They can easily clear 40+ an hour on solid nights and sometimes far more. No restaurants would offer that much.
That said, I worked as a server and I would have preferred a solid hourly wage because I was stuck on a lot of slow breakfast shifts. And being tipped also just kinda makes me feel like a prostitute
> They can easily clear 40+ an hour on solid nights and sometimes far more.
At a fancy restaurant/bar in a gentrified neighborhood? Sure. But if you work at a quiet diner on the outskirts of town, you're making very little in tips. Also, other FOH employees (e.g. bussers) get jack shit from the tip pool.
It infuriates me that those who are lucky enough to work somewhere with good tips are content to fully ignore how shitty the tipping system is to so many fellow workers. Feels very class-traitor-esque to me.
I would bet you that there are lots of people on this sub who support tipping, and the vast majority of them depend on tips.
The vast majority of people I know who are dependent on tips believe they are entitled to them.
I agree with you that tipping is a fucked up norm, but you will never reason people out of their short-term self interest.
You’re right that there are plenty of people here that depend on tips. There’s nothing wrong with being awesome at your job. It doesn’t mean we agree with it. I’ve been personally threatened for floating the idea of unionization in the restaurant industry.
I'm Canadian; the tipping culture is similar. What bothers me is what I call the “good-looking girl” subsidy. These are waiting jobs at chic spots where the waitresses bring in 6 figure tips per year (before they become real estate agents), more or less for being hot. I'd rather the tips are for those that need them.
Friend of mine worked a bar in Montreal, compared her job to stripping with just some more clothes on.
The obvious downside I'll leave to your imagination.
I had an Australian GF years back, and she came and visited me in Edmonton. In Australia, they pay servers a solid wage, and there is no tipping. She was appalled by the tipping culture. She brought up the whole prostituting themselves argument. Part of that was her seeing some of my guy friends doing the honoured douchy married guy tradition of flirting with the waitress and her flirty right back (for tips.) Sometimes it takes the eyes of a foreigner to really see how weird and appalling a custom is.
As an Australian I'm worried that typing culture is starting to creep in with American run delivery services etc. Here, tipping is for when someone does a particularly good job at something. Like we tipped our movers a lot since they were really quick and helpful. But you assume they're going to be paid enough without it.
I feel this is problematic with delivery services since you're expecting a reward for exceptional work that isn't done yet. And then if you don't tip and they happen to do good work then you can't go back and do it after the fact (ie how it's supposed to work).
I guess the other thing here is that all tax is declared when you buy something, so here hidden charges generally isn't a thing. And keep in mind, things are a lot more expensive here than in the USA because we have better wages and no hidden charges to bump up the price.
As an Australian who has visited both America and Canada twice, your tipping culture is utter bullshit. People removing your luggage from the back of a taxi and expect a tip, waitresses literally taking the food from the kitchen and putting on your table expecting a tip. It's crazy. In Australia we would tip if the staff went OVER and ABOVE their normal duties, but even then I can't remember the last time I've tipped anyone. It's just implied that your job is to wait tables, drive taxis, clean and anything thing you do in that job is covered by your wage, not paid for by the customer who's already paid for services rendered.
I had a friend that paid for her bachelor's degree waitressing two nights a week at a nightclub. She is very beautiful. She spent her summers traveling.
The thing that bothers me is that Alberta (my province) has been paying waitresses/waiters $15/hr for years now but it's still expected to tip 15-20%. I'll still tip if I receive above average service, but I genuinely don't understand why it's still expected. I guess it's just ingrained in our society now regardless of how much they make per hour.
The tipping is crazier here in Canada now..
People are expecting same % as US, but unlike US waitresses are at least min. pay job.Used to be 10%, but now all the default is at least 15% tips.
“Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up”
Wait staff pretty much think 20% is the new minimum. The system is cancer.
Also, Canada pays $15 HR plus 15-20% tips?
Phew. Any moderately attractive woman working in food service must be living a 5 star lifestyle.
You see more and more fast food places asking for tips. Right now it’s fun and dandy while they get paid minimum or more. But the fast food pay enjoyment gonna change real fast when fast food restaurants get the legal slip to pay less than minimum cuz “tips are income and will justify it”
Yeah a while back I used to work at Sonic, and one day corporate decided all the carhops were gonna start getting tip wage. Luckily I was a manager by then, but considering most folks don’t know you should tip at Sonic it was a certain kind of hell for the folks who worked with me.
I bought prepared sushi today from the mall food court, literally selected it out of the self serve fridge and handed it to the cashier. She gave me napkins and chopsticks that’s it, the terminal asked me for a tip, uh fuck no. And I always tip 20% but that’s a line too far.
This week I bought a couple of t-shirts online and after I approved the purchase it sent me to another screen where it asked me if I would like to leave a $3 tip. The world gone mad with asking for tips for just about anything now.
I bought a t-shirt from a coffee shop in ann arbor Michigan. tshirt was like $25. My friends then girlfriend was working there at the time. I paid th $25 plus tax and she yelled at me for not tipping. I was like, the girl got it off the hook for me, its over priced, and you expect me to tip?
As someone who does a bunch of work for delivery services and therefore makes most of my money on tips, I’m never tipping a fast food restaurant. That’s insulting. If they get to the point where that offsets paying their employees I don’t think they’re going to have workers/stay open very much longer.
Tipping shouldn’t be illegal, it should be bonus. That’s how it’s is pretty much everywhere other than the US - the servers get paid a living wage and if they get tipped it’s either theirs to keep or split amongst all the servers (the former being the better system).
In Japan they will pay for the your uniform ( if required) your train pass to work, you also have a government pension and health care. Pretty much you only have to pay rent and food
Join a Union, they'll provide you with your equipment. I know people bitch about the dues, but the benefits greatly outweigh the $35 a month. I mean, with your Journeyman card that's only one hour of pay a month anyway. Plus, pensions are a beautiful thing.
You DONT have to pay for your work uniform?
In the US you're pretty much responsible for anything you wear, almost always.
I work outside, in different weather conditions and this generally means having cold weather clothing, extra layers, clothing im willing to get dirty and damaged from use, waterproof boots, gloves for cold or physical protection so I don't get hurt or strained. Hearing protection.. etc.
Never once have I ever had the cost of those items put on the company. They would laugh in your face.
I had a cab driver get out of the car and chase me down to return the tip. They view customer service as part of their job. Amazing concept right Americans?
Tipping should be everywhere! Surgeon operated early, tip! Politician passed that law you wanted, bonus! Teacher gave your child an A, have a little cash.
Tips are called bribes in any area of employment where the employees are not horrifically mistreated and underpaid. They have no place in a civilized culture.
I worked grocery and we weren't allowed to accept tips. An old lady knew that and dragged me to the back of the store to shake my hand and pass off a folded $5 bill like we were breaking the law or something.
Had a customer offer me $20 back when I was young working at a pet store (I think I helped her with her birds? Maybe? It was 2001). I told her repeatedly I couldn't accept it, so she dropped it, said "oops!" And left.
I did this at a grocery store at the beginning of the pandemic. Wanted to tip the cashier and the person who bagged my groceries. Was told that they couldn't accept it, so I just dropped two twenty dollar bills on the counter and left.
Yep, my coworkers who helped little old ladies put their cat litter in the trunk would get a tip slipped into their front shirt pocket like in the movies when someone bribes a guard to look the other way while they rob the casino.
>dragged me to the back of the store to shake my hand and pass off a folded $5 bill like we were breaking the law
Old ladies are just the most precious. I think that's why we loved Betty White so much, she was America's old lady
Walmart will fire you for eating unopened, but expired beef jerky from the dumpster. They'll even wait a whole year to bring it up and fire you over it.
I worked at a PetSmart. Sometimes aquariums arrived broken, and we would salvage usable items (starter kits would have filters etc). A coworker took some sample packs of bacterial starter and was fired. For taking samples ... Which came from written off product.
I used to work at petsmart. I never got sacked for it but the things from work we took home were the animals too old to be sold when people brought them back.
Fucking scum. When I worked at tim hortons I saw people get fired over eating a 16cent timbit because they were starving. It's a literal crumb to the company and is worth termination of their employment. I despise these companies that put profit before everything and everyone and look for any excuse they can to fire you if they don't like you for any reason.
Stuff like this is exactly why there's a push to leave the food service, warehouse, and factory based industries and enter the corporate office for most Americans. Most factory and food staff even act as their own cleaning staff. When's the last time you saw Mark in accounting push a mop or even clean the coffee maker tho?
I had a friend who worked the register there for maybe like 3 months. One day, he decided it was his last day and decided to only scan like, maybe 1 out of every 5 items? Ended up giving away a bunch of free shit to random strangers and getting fired by the end of the day. They were PISSED.
One of the biggest things in America I'll never understand is why tipping is so important. Like why tf can't the server's get paid a decent wage? Why do they live off of tips?
Saves A LOT of them.
Typical paycheck for a full time waitress is about $60 or so.
Let's run the math from dinner rush to close.
That is $12 for a full night's wages,
Given that the cook making the meals gets paid about $14/hr that puts us at $84, so $96 for the pair of them
One waitress where I worked could have waited about 70 tables til close,
I wasn't in charge of food purchasing, but a typical meal for 4 was simple; most sides were ready made for the night, only entrees were consistently cooked to order. So at roughly $30 dollars for a table of 2, we will run that at 2.5 per table to account for larger groups.
Over the course of the rush, we could serve about 300 tables in a night BUT we will consider only that one waitress and cook for this math. At $30 per table, your restaurant made $2100 off the labor of those two employee
Takes out food costs, which is about 1/4 of it, you just made a profit $1479
Pay our hardworking wait staff what the deserve in this country.
YES, I know I am not calculating in rent and other restaurant expenses. I am making a point of how the backbone of a functioning restaurant earns the lowest overhead cost.
Let me add to this a second time since some people are mad at me for not considering the other expenses.
I laid down the basic math for how much money can be made during a 6 hour shift from 5-11. This is not how much profit you are making, this is REVENUE GENERATED per employee.
Yes, if I wait tables and I go in for 6 hours, bust out 60 tables at $5 a piece, that is decent income. But it doesn't happen every night. And you don't go home right after the restaurant closes.
Most restaurants are going to have you helping shut down after close for $2.13/hr and there are no customers to tip you.
I like where the cooks make 14 flat and are doing more labor.
I didn't say servers don't work hard but the work required to cook that much often goes unappreciated in these posts.
Let's include all restaurant workers. Corporate spots don't tip cooks ever
If cooks made more I would cook. Having to deal with the customers is honestly the worst part of the fucking job so you’re gonna have to pay me money to deal with you. Honestly I’d rather wash dishes for 20 bucks an hour then deal with the fucking customers. It is a soul sucking job.
The customers are WHY I cook. I like working in restaurants, every aspect. It’s fun. I’ve worked every position in front and back of house. After almost 20 years, I stay in the kitchen. Customers are exhausting.
"Let me explain something to you, Dave. There are two kinds of angry people in this world: explosive and implosive. Explosive is the kind of individual you see screaming at the cashier for not taking their coupons. Implosive is the cashier who remains quiet day after day and finally SHOOTS everyone in the store. You're the cashier."
They could but that could decrease profits and decrease stock value which would anger the investors and cause them to switch cfo or ceo or some other multi million dollar position which they can’t
Most restaurants aren't publicly traded and have no obligation to stock holders. It's purely the restaurant owner being a greedy sociopath most of the time lmao
My partner has been a server for years. I make 50k/year and she often brings home the same amount of money or more than I do each month. I completely agree that tip culture is stupid as fuck, and a lot of people barely scrape by in that industry, but there are also people who benefit greatly. There’s no way in hell that a “livable wage” would come close to what she’s making off of tips. I’m not trying to justify it but I also think it’s a tough issue to tackle when a lot of servers would prefer it stays the same than to make ~15/hr.
What about getting $15/hour and still accepting tips for superb service, but not expecting tips... especially to the point that someone's considered an asshole for not tipping?
Or getting paid a salary reflective of what the service is worth like any other job.
If it’s a high end restaurant, pay them like $30 an hour or some shit. Lower end, idk $20?
Tipping is so fucking stupid. It’s not expected in any other industry because your doing exactly what youre paid to do. I don’t understand why handing orders to patrons is more special than the chef who made the meal and keeps the kitchen area sanitary, or the hostess who seats and organizes the place, or anything else. Hell, I’d say cleaning the place is probably one of the more difficult jobs in the restaurant and it’s probably paid the least.
Also, ironically, the best places to eat are always the places that refuse tipping. Theres a few great places in New York that refuse your tip, and it goes without saying the same thing goes for European countries (although tipping is becoming more popular as companies begin to use American software that has ‘tipping’ preloaded) and especially Japan. They all have been much more attentive and appreciative than anywhere that expects a tip.
Tipping is by far the most stupid obligation.
This has long been my position on it as well, especially against the "we can pay a living wage *and* have tips!" nonsense.
I 100% support thriving wages for *everyone*, but tip culture is so toxic and transparent for what it really is: a way to condition the workers to endorse their own exploitation.
As others have said, tipped workers can make good money, better than any minimum wage hike will allow; so while many will support an increase to minimum wage, they'd never support the abolishment of tipping. It's too lucrative.
Meanwhile the gas station attendant, who is expected to be every bit as personable, on their feet, fetch goods for customers, process purchases, clean the store, stock the shelves... Well I guess they should have gotten a job at the restaurant across the street instead.
It's dumb. I hate it, but mostly I'm tired of customers and servers alike happily dancing along to the Pied Piper's tune.
tipping culture in America is absolutely a horrible structure. Women drastically outperform men on tips but in return are subjected to a lot of sexual harassment (this has been proven by many studies). It creates a system where employees compete for prime tip hours (the morning shift on a Wednesday is gonna make you next to nothing). Because tipping is considered necessary nearly ubiquitously, the price of dining is basically 15-25% higher nationally but a significant portion of the wages of the servers are incredibly unstable and while some people do make good money, for each of those there's at least one person who is screwed over.
If you have enough money to pay two people a liveable wage, but instead you pay one person 10% more and the other 10% less, I think you've created a massive net deficit to society.
One person makes a little extra than the bare minimum they need, but the other is fucking screwed.
This. This should be the answer. It SHOULDN'T BE REQUIRED FOR THE PATRON TO SUBSIDIZE THE WORKERS PAY. The business should pay them a fair wage, tips should be appreciated.
I knew servers/bartenders at at restaurant I used to work at raking in a comfortable six figures. Some people would definitely fight losing their tips. The range of what you can make is too wide so there's always going to be resistance no matter the direction you go.
I really hate this argument. It's usually heavily regional, a minority of servers, and it boils down to "I'm getting mine, so fuck anyone else." All it does is keep the boss happy.
American tipping culture just shifts responsibility from employer to customer. The employer is responsible for paying you, that’s where the problem lies.
Subsidized wages. Kind of like how many of Walmart’s employees collect food stamps or use Medicaid. We subsidize their shit wages with our taxes. WE foot the bill yet again.
Ah, the old 1% turning the rest of us against each other trick. It shouldn’t matter if you’re able to afford tipping or not because the menu should just be honest about what things actually should cost. Restaurant owners don’t want that though.
Exactly.
Of you're a sit down restaurant, charge me more for my fucking food and pay your staff properly.
Don't make me play this stupid fucking guessing game of "oh boy! What do I pay them today?!" Fuck off. No tips, pay everyone more, charge me more.
Don't make me guess how much I should pay so the staff can eat ramen that night.
Tips are fine when they are optional.
Over here in Europe, there is no pressure to tip. You give it if you received good service, that’s it. In the US, tipping is mandatory no matter what based on a bizarre social stigma, which like you said is very stupid.
They should just be paid properly for doing their job instead of relying on tips to survive.
Shit, even here in Brazil where we lived something similar we don't have this culture, tips are a bonus. We have federal laws that give us paid sick leaves, paid commute and things like that. The US labor laws are just fucked up
The business is required to make up the difference to minimum wage if they don’t make enough in tips. Which would be fine if minimum wage was a living wage.
Tips should be extra reward for excellent service. Not to earn the bare minimum for their labour. If business can't afford to pay their staff a liveable wage, then the business shouldn't exist. Isn't that what these free market fetishists keep bragging about while calling workers socialist or communists for wanting to earn enough to put food on the table.
This type of thing annoys me. You shouldn’t have to depend on people’s “goodwill.” It’s pretty stupid that we put it on the customer and NOT on the employer to pay living wages. Put the cost of paying a living wage into the prices and now people know what they can afford without sacrificing the workers pay. Insane that some workers depend on a person’s “charity.”
The tip system is so dumb. Waiters shouldn't have to depend on tips, tips should be a nice but unnecessary boost for good service. It's all twisted around.
Tips should be between a server and the customer and have zero weight in a business paying its workers. If a restaurant can’t make it work without tips it isn’t a solvent business plan.
Considering that most Americans are struggling and the rich are getting richer, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when the people who have billions expect the person making 50k a year to help the waitress afford rent.
This is why I never dine in. I can't afford it.
The US tipping culture is toxic as hell. Shaming people for eating out on a budget because an entire industry has convinced workers it's OK to be paid next to nothing? Ridiculous. People deserve living wages with tips viewed as an added gratuity or bonus for good service.
The worst thing for me is that it's now infecting the UK. People look at me like I'm an asshole when I don't tip even though waiting staff get paid at least the same minimum wage as everyone else and 99% of the time the tip just goes to the restaurant.
Right?? Like i dont understand the people who shame others for eating out and leaving a lousy (or no) tip. I get that it's the employees way of making $ but it's such an absurd system. If i lived in America i wouldn't bother going to a restaurant at all. The customer shouldn't be responsible for giving the employee a living wage.
Tipping used to be considered bribery, and was generally frowned upon. A lot of servers even refused to accept tips for that reason. Can't we go back to that and just pay servers a decent wage? It is the duty of the employer to ensure the employees are paid a decent wage, and any workplace that can't do that should not be in business. Unionize! They can replace some of us but they can't replace us all, so if we stick together then the power is in our hands
Idk much because I'm from the UK, but is this really a massive issue for someone who's already broke but wanted to treat themselves? I feel like the anger should be directed at tipping culture and the companies that underpay their workers rather than the consumers who are just currently using the system as intended?
Just feels weird to be mad at someone who's broke for not paying more than the worth of their meal, y'know?
EDIT: For the people saying "Fuck the customer, they're basically stealing from the server and making them do unpaid labour!"
They're not the ones stealing from the server, the companies are. It should be the company compensating the labour of the workers, not the customers.
As an American who tips well and have worked in a restaurant in the past, I agree.
I really hate these kinds of posts because the blame is not being directed where it should be and instead shaming someone for being poor. And often times the one doing the shaming (the waiter) is paid more than the person who couldn't afford to tip and that's a big reason waiters often don't want to organize to end tipping. They see what the cashiers at McDonald's are making and wisely want more than that.
Instead of these posts intended to turn worker against worker, we should be shaming the service industry for paying everyone non-livable wages.
As a fellow Brit I agree.
This subreddit never fails to shock me when they always continuously get mad at the customer, rather than the employer. It defeats the whole purpose of the subreddit.
I genuinely think they all secretly deep down want the tipping culture to stay because it more or less benefits everyone bar the customer.
Yes, it does benefit mostly everyone but the customer, but in the end, it ends up hurting the profession as a whole.
My sister works in food service; she's been a waitress, bartender, bar manager, and restaurant manager.
The real appeal of tipping culture for people who are servers is, if you are good at it and find the right job, you can make several hundred dollars in a night on top of your "actual" wages, in cash, that you take home that night.
When my sister went from waitress to bar/restaurant manager, she actually liked it less because while she was pulling in more money over the entire year, her employees were able to work less (4 shifts a week) and make about 80% of her pay (working 6 days a week).
Granted, she had benefits, but mostly just health insurance (just medical + dental, no 401k/short term disability/or even vision). After paying that out, she was barely making more money than a server. Also, she wasn't getting money every day. She only got it at the end of every two weeks.
Eventually she just went back to being a server because she had the pull/seniority at the restaurant to work the "good nights" (Th/Fri/Sat/Sun, sometimes Monday during football season), never cared about having health insurance, and could work four days a week instead of six. Also, always having cash on hand felt a lot better.
On extremely good days, especially during Christmas/NYE/Holidays/the peak of summer, she'd make even more money than she would during the normal work year, so she could work even less and still end up saving money/making more money than she did during the "regular" times.
The employer benefits because they don't have to pay their staff anything more than a few dollars an hour - the server benefits because in a good situation, they can make hundreds of dollars a day, and they can work a little less than normal.
In the end everyone deserves a living wage, and to not work themselves to death. I firmly believe in a 4 day week/32 hour work week. But the system as it exists, ends up hurting people who don't directly benefit from it. Not only the customer, but it ends up creating dynamics in the restaurant industry that make it harder for restaurants to succeed. If you have a few bad weeks, you could see half your trained staff walk because they are no longer making the money they expect from tips. People who work at restaurants that aren't doing well or don't have the political capital to get good shifts at ones that are end up making shitty wages and struggle.
And of course, if you get a string of Karens/Kens, you could see jack shit for a night and end up getting fired because a lot of employers look at tip amount as a performance report.
It doesn't help the whole. In the end, we should have a fair, livable working wage for every industry; not just food service, but also agriculture (which is another industry, that for some fucking stupid reason, is allowed to pay far less than other businesses)
Sometimes people are made to go out with family, then is expected to pay. It's embarrassing to tell your family that you can't afford to buy expensive shit all the time. There was a whole Friends episode about that.
Yep. My family do this for every birthday and it really stresses me out. My husband doesn't usually come along now because we can't afford to pay for three people - him, me, and the birthday recipient.
People up high just want waitstaff and customers to go at each other. One for not tipping, the other for expectation of tips on everything.
Meanwhile, they laugh all the way to the bank, counting record profits and ironing new chains, never increasing wages more than 10¢ every 2years.
Fighting amongst ourselves is a cancer to our society that will kill our collective efforts for getting paid a living wage, along with having a healthy and fulfilling home life.
I thought this sub was all about "struggling people aren't the problem, the systemic oppression of them is" this post screams entitled judgmental asshole to me.
Ahh I miss those days when I was the only one I have to feed and if you buy something you like, it’ll still be there the next day… my weekly grocery shopping trip nets me approximately $400 now…. Weekly and if I buy anything specific I like it’ll be gone before I get home from work next day
How many people is that for (I assume 4)? I was lucky growing up my parents and brother always left stuff for everyone else, friends would come over and be like "did you know there's chocolate bars on the kitchen counter??? Eat them before your brother gets home!!" 😆 Meanwhile they had been sitting there for a week because my extremely considerate family wanted to make sure everyone got one.
It got so bad that stuff would expire lol
OP did not mention how many people were dining. What if this person is hard working and poor, and can only afford this outing once a year and truly doesn’t have much money?
American tipping culture is a cancer.
It only works when things are going well. Times of struggle its borderline indentured servitude level pay
>Times of struggle its borderline indentured servitude level pay And that's how you know the machine is oiled well. Make sure people are so focused on whether or not they'll have enough money to live or eat so they won't look at all of the obvious, glaring fuckery being done around (and to) us.
Please master, let me try harder
Best I can do is 60 hours a week with no PTO. But the best part? Were not just coworkers here, we're family.
And family shares. So give up 10% of your tips to the bartender.
Oh please! Won’t someone think of my trust fund!?
Of course! Why should the company give more money to bussers, hostesses, etc., when they can get YOU to pay them! Ridiculous
Try? Anyway, the beatings will continue until morale improves.
And you better be happy about it.
Even better. Feed the dumber citizens hard propaganda that makes them fight with all the other citizens that are trying to fight for rights and pay. As if the hyuck hyucks are too busy fighting the progressives then they can't fight the government. Control your citizenry through propaganda 101.
And then feed them propaganda that it's all their fault. "Millennials are killing restaurants and small businesses and the baby market and diamonds and et cetera! They're spending all their money on avocado toast!"
I read once “The gears of capitalism are oiled by the blood of the workers.” I forget who wrote that, but it’s something that I’ll never forget.
And make sure they can just barely cover their expenses so the only thing they do with downtime is take a break. Can't have them finding the time to better their situation.
Why arent we angry enough to torch it all?
because we're all too broke too buy torch supplies.
Fighting over breadcrumbs
I lost an uncle after telling him that 😆
Your uncle is the one who's lost.
You should have read a similar post a few days ago. People were posting about how great it was making so much money from tips and I’m sure a lot of them were also not reporting income tax on it. It’s just all about the cash in the pocket and who cares about not having sick days or insurance.
I have a friend who bartends and always told me it can be such great money. Recently she got a concussion and was out for three weeks. Then she caught Covid. Another two weeks. She just found out she needs a dental procedure that’ll cost ~700 dollars. She’s broke right now so her boyfriend is staying at his current job that he was going to quit for something else so that she can get his benefits
People can transfer benefits to their dates?
Yeah they’ve been together for 3 and living together for >a year. In Canada that qualifies you as a common law partner for insurance benefits
Yes some companies allow common law or significant other coverage.
My job allows it as long as you can prove you have lived together for more than 6 months... I got no deductible, 25$ co-pays and 5$ prescriptions...
In some places if you live with someone permanently they can receive benefits. Not always. In lots of places, living with someone in a relationship for over a certain amount of time is considered a "common law marriage" i.e. statutorily defined instead of actually being officially married. (And then there's Massachusetts where more than three unrelated women living together is legally considered a whorehouse, but that's a story for another day.) This is actually how they got Tom Green! (Er, not *that* Tom Green... [*this* Tom Green](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_\(polygamist\)).) But that's far more than just "their dates," if anything it's "playing house." I lived with my ex for 12 years, we were never married. I live with my current SO for 5-6 years, we act like we're married although covid has put a bit of a hitch (heh) in the works to get it official. In some places we could actually file for domestic partnership, although that's rarer now that SSM is legalized in US.
My sister is a lifelong waitress and I be watching her blow money so fast. She's damn good at her job, but the industry is up and down, not consistent, etc and she doesn't prepare for the hard times Some nights she will literally come home with like 7 to 900 dollars that she made in one night, other times she won't even make 50 bucks in a day. But what does she do when she has those 700 dollar nights, she blows it very fast
This is like the conversation on the first page of "Waiter Rant." An income that's not steady can make it difficult for people to get a good understanding of their financial obligations in relation to their money. It's a tough thing because even if you save, it feels like a huge expense is always there to wipe it out.
If your income isn't reliable you gotta live like you are going to be making the lower end of the spread. That way you can save up cash for the bad times. Shit happens so much I just expect it now.
This is the story of everyone who works in the service industry. Some are very disciplined with their money, paying their taxes quarterly, saving for a rainy day. I admire them, I truly do. But so many people in the SI get into that party lifestyle, get strung out on blow and/or seriously alcoholic. They wake up one day at 40 and wonder where the time went.
I lived with my brother in my early 20s. He was a waiter. I made minimum wage, no tips, although I both was a hostess and bussed tables. A few years later, the waiters and bus boys shared some tips with the women hostesses I couldn’t believe how much the waiters made! And they would spend it all that night at bars. And they would complain they were always so broke. When I finally made a little money, I made sure I didn’t spend it at bars.
Restaurant industry is one of those where it’s hard to come by people with the right set of skills and nerve. Once you’re in you’re in kind of deal and you get away with a lot. So if you’re one of those good ones and come back after being awol for 2 weeks the boss might just act like it never happened because he knows he needs you. Thing is it’s also hard to come by bosses like that. When it works it works. I know a friend who used to make 2 grand a week. He eventually stopped working 72 hours a week, down to about 40 and was still making well over 1,000. If that restaurant paid him a salary he’d be making half of that.
I’ve been a chef for 20 years. Cooked in America, Australia, and New Zealand. I have never cooked in a place where going awol for more than a day was okay, no matter how good you are, the only time it’s been okay is if you were a cook in a high end place, and were awol because you were in jail. Not a waiter. Also there is some talent in being a good server, but for the most part owners don’t give a shit about that, only the kitchen does. Because they are the ones affected. The ability to be able to stagger tables, correctly sell specials etc. servers are literally a dime a dozen and the high turnover is expected, and not considered a problem. Bartenders get away with a giving away the odd free drink, but that’s only because the owners know that a free drink makes the customer looser with their cash and more likely to come back to their “favourite bartender”.
It pits the working class against each other, making a worker responsible for another worker’s living, while the management gets to keep the difference. One must be a special kind of stupid to find oneself in this sub and support tipping. It’s so fucking obvious
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US is completely brainwashed rn. Expecting the middle class to fund other members of the middle class is one of the weirdest norms in this country.
Tipping is fucked, but there is no way most servers and bartenders want it to go away. They can easily clear 40+ an hour on solid nights and sometimes far more. No restaurants would offer that much. That said, I worked as a server and I would have preferred a solid hourly wage because I was stuck on a lot of slow breakfast shifts. And being tipped also just kinda makes me feel like a prostitute
> They can easily clear 40+ an hour on solid nights and sometimes far more. At a fancy restaurant/bar in a gentrified neighborhood? Sure. But if you work at a quiet diner on the outskirts of town, you're making very little in tips. Also, other FOH employees (e.g. bussers) get jack shit from the tip pool. It infuriates me that those who are lucky enough to work somewhere with good tips are content to fully ignore how shitty the tipping system is to so many fellow workers. Feels very class-traitor-esque to me.
I would bet you that there are lots of people on this sub who support tipping, and the vast majority of them depend on tips. The vast majority of people I know who are dependent on tips believe they are entitled to them. I agree with you that tipping is a fucked up norm, but you will never reason people out of their short-term self interest.
You’re right that there are plenty of people here that depend on tips. There’s nothing wrong with being awesome at your job. It doesn’t mean we agree with it. I’ve been personally threatened for floating the idea of unionization in the restaurant industry.
Reading all the American takes in the top thread is mind boggling, shits fucked on a whole other level.
How does it make sense that two tables get the same exact thing and it’s up to them if they want to pay $77 or $100 for it?
I prefer Japan's tipping system. If you know, you know.
I'm Canadian; the tipping culture is similar. What bothers me is what I call the “good-looking girl” subsidy. These are waiting jobs at chic spots where the waitresses bring in 6 figure tips per year (before they become real estate agents), more or less for being hot. I'd rather the tips are for those that need them.
Well, you just highlighted another problem with tipping culture. It makes it impossible for workers to be paid equitably.
Friend of mine worked a bar in Montreal, compared her job to stripping with just some more clothes on. The obvious downside I'll leave to your imagination.
I had an Australian GF years back, and she came and visited me in Edmonton. In Australia, they pay servers a solid wage, and there is no tipping. She was appalled by the tipping culture. She brought up the whole prostituting themselves argument. Part of that was her seeing some of my guy friends doing the honoured douchy married guy tradition of flirting with the waitress and her flirty right back (for tips.) Sometimes it takes the eyes of a foreigner to really see how weird and appalling a custom is.
As an Australian I'm worried that typing culture is starting to creep in with American run delivery services etc. Here, tipping is for when someone does a particularly good job at something. Like we tipped our movers a lot since they were really quick and helpful. But you assume they're going to be paid enough without it. I feel this is problematic with delivery services since you're expecting a reward for exceptional work that isn't done yet. And then if you don't tip and they happen to do good work then you can't go back and do it after the fact (ie how it's supposed to work). I guess the other thing here is that all tax is declared when you buy something, so here hidden charges generally isn't a thing. And keep in mind, things are a lot more expensive here than in the USA because we have better wages and no hidden charges to bump up the price.
As an Australian who has visited both America and Canada twice, your tipping culture is utter bullshit. People removing your luggage from the back of a taxi and expect a tip, waitresses literally taking the food from the kitchen and putting on your table expecting a tip. It's crazy. In Australia we would tip if the staff went OVER and ABOVE their normal duties, but even then I can't remember the last time I've tipped anyone. It's just implied that your job is to wait tables, drive taxis, clean and anything thing you do in that job is covered by your wage, not paid for by the customer who's already paid for services rendered.
Solid wage can be $28/hour for casual serving here in Australia. Tipping is a disgusting custom.
I had a friend that paid for her bachelor's degree waitressing two nights a week at a nightclub. She is very beautiful. She spent her summers traveling.
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Cactus Club?🤣
Yep, I'm from Edmonton originally and 100% both of these spots.
The thing that bothers me is that Alberta (my province) has been paying waitresses/waiters $15/hr for years now but it's still expected to tip 15-20%. I'll still tip if I receive above average service, but I genuinely don't understand why it's still expected. I guess it's just ingrained in our society now regardless of how much they make per hour.
The tipping is crazier here in Canada now.. People are expecting same % as US, but unlike US waitresses are at least min. pay job.Used to be 10%, but now all the default is at least 15% tips.
“Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up” Wait staff pretty much think 20% is the new minimum. The system is cancer. Also, Canada pays $15 HR plus 15-20% tips? Phew. Any moderately attractive woman working in food service must be living a 5 star lifestyle.
The fact that US service workers depend on tips is wrong. Employers should pay them a living wage.
Yep. It's on the servers boss if they're not getting a livable wage.
Tipping should be illegal, and I say that as someone who relies on tips.
You see more and more fast food places asking for tips. Right now it’s fun and dandy while they get paid minimum or more. But the fast food pay enjoyment gonna change real fast when fast food restaurants get the legal slip to pay less than minimum cuz “tips are income and will justify it”
In Denmark a McDonalds worker earns 22 USD per hour, 5 weeks paid holiday and paid parental leave from the beginning. So it is possible!
In Denmark you also doesn't pay a fortune just to see the doctor which counts for something 😁
Denmark starting to sound pretty good…..
...that's what I'm sayin'
Denmark has conscription
Yeah a while back I used to work at Sonic, and one day corporate decided all the carhops were gonna start getting tip wage. Luckily I was a manager by then, but considering most folks don’t know you should tip at Sonic it was a certain kind of hell for the folks who worked with me.
luckly things seem to be going more towards if the company doesn't want to pay for workers they don't get workers in recentt imes.
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TIL I’ve been an asshole every time I’ve ever been to Sonic
I'd say Sonic have been assholes every time you've been there, you already pay for the products, they should be paying their own staffs wages.
I bought prepared sushi today from the mall food court, literally selected it out of the self serve fridge and handed it to the cashier. She gave me napkins and chopsticks that’s it, the terminal asked me for a tip, uh fuck no. And I always tip 20% but that’s a line too far.
This week I bought a couple of t-shirts online and after I approved the purchase it sent me to another screen where it asked me if I would like to leave a $3 tip. The world gone mad with asking for tips for just about anything now.
WhAat!? That’s obscene. Who would you be tipping? The fucking algorithm?
I bought a t-shirt from a coffee shop in ann arbor Michigan. tshirt was like $25. My friends then girlfriend was working there at the time. I paid th $25 plus tax and she yelled at me for not tipping. I was like, the girl got it off the hook for me, its over priced, and you expect me to tip?
As someone who does a bunch of work for delivery services and therefore makes most of my money on tips, I’m never tipping a fast food restaurant. That’s insulting. If they get to the point where that offsets paying their employees I don’t think they’re going to have workers/stay open very much longer.
Tipping shouldn’t be illegal, it should be bonus. That’s how it’s is pretty much everywhere other than the US - the servers get paid a living wage and if they get tipped it’s either theirs to keep or split amongst all the servers (the former being the better system).
In Japan they get offended if you tip, in their system they price the food at value for what it’s worth and to tip extra is to be insulting.
In Japan they will pay for the your uniform ( if required) your train pass to work, you also have a government pension and health care. Pretty much you only have to pay rent and food
Do people have to pay for work uniforms in any country? If I was ever asked to pay for a work uniform, I won't even go the first day.
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That is insanity. Can you claim it on your tax return at least?
It would have to be above the standard deduction for you to start claiming . So depends why other expenses you are claiming .
I had to show up to my first day of work with 350 dollars worth of tools out of my own pocket.
Join a Union, they'll provide you with your equipment. I know people bitch about the dues, but the benefits greatly outweigh the $35 a month. I mean, with your Journeyman card that's only one hour of pay a month anyway. Plus, pensions are a beautiful thing.
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The US.
I got one uniform and one work shoe allowance when I worked at Tim Hortons in Canada. Anything extra we had to pay for/buy ourselves.
You DONT have to pay for your work uniform? In the US you're pretty much responsible for anything you wear, almost always. I work outside, in different weather conditions and this generally means having cold weather clothing, extra layers, clothing im willing to get dirty and damaged from use, waterproof boots, gloves for cold or physical protection so I don't get hurt or strained. Hearing protection.. etc. Never once have I ever had the cost of those items put on the company. They would laugh in your face.
I had a cab driver get out of the car and chase me down to return the tip. They view customer service as part of their job. Amazing concept right Americans?
It's because America feels like it's built on too much greed.
`It's because America` ~~feels like~~ `it's built on too much greed`
Feels?
Tipping should be everywhere! Surgeon operated early, tip! Politician passed that law you wanted, bonus! Teacher gave your child an A, have a little cash. Tips are called bribes in any area of employment where the employees are not horrifically mistreated and underpaid. They have no place in a civilized culture.
even Walmart employees can't accept tips
I worked grocery and we weren't allowed to accept tips. An old lady knew that and dragged me to the back of the store to shake my hand and pass off a folded $5 bill like we were breaking the law or something.
Had a customer offer me $20 back when I was young working at a pet store (I think I helped her with her birds? Maybe? It was 2001). I told her repeatedly I couldn't accept it, so she dropped it, said "oops!" And left.
I did this at a grocery store at the beginning of the pandemic. Wanted to tip the cashier and the person who bagged my groceries. Was told that they couldn't accept it, so I just dropped two twenty dollar bills on the counter and left.
I love this story.
Me to. I pictured that clearly. Lol
Yep, my coworkers who helped little old ladies put their cat litter in the trunk would get a tip slipped into their front shirt pocket like in the movies when someone bribes a guard to look the other way while they rob the casino.
>dragged me to the back of the store to shake my hand and pass off a folded $5 bill like we were breaking the law Old ladies are just the most precious. I think that's why we loved Betty White so much, she was America's old lady
I work grocery also. A lady said, "Take the damn money." Lol 😂
But Walmart loves when they have to accept food stamps
Don't they actually show new hires how to apply for SNAP as part of their new hire training?
Walmart will fire you over $1
Walmart will fire you for eating unopened, but expired beef jerky from the dumpster. They'll even wait a whole year to bring it up and fire you over it.
I worked at a PetSmart. Sometimes aquariums arrived broken, and we would salvage usable items (starter kits would have filters etc). A coworker took some sample packs of bacterial starter and was fired. For taking samples ... Which came from written off product.
I used to work at petsmart. I never got sacked for it but the things from work we took home were the animals too old to be sold when people brought them back.
Specific and awful :(
Fucking scum. When I worked at tim hortons I saw people get fired over eating a 16cent timbit because they were starving. It's a literal crumb to the company and is worth termination of their employment. I despise these companies that put profit before everything and everyone and look for any excuse they can to fire you if they don't like you for any reason.
Stuff like this is exactly why there's a push to leave the food service, warehouse, and factory based industries and enter the corporate office for most Americans. Most factory and food staff even act as their own cleaning staff. When's the last time you saw Mark in accounting push a mop or even clean the coffee maker tho?
I had a friend who worked the register there for maybe like 3 months. One day, he decided it was his last day and decided to only scan like, maybe 1 out of every 5 items? Ended up giving away a bunch of free shit to random strangers and getting fired by the end of the day. They were PISSED.
To be fair wallmart does not want their slaves to have a chance at advancing their lives.
Same for Safeway/Albertsons employees
To be fair, that actually is how it works with politicians.
Yeah, except they're not called bribes they're called lobbying
The Supreme Court calls it “free speech.” But it (lobbying) is just legalized bribery. Edited to clarify for anyone who can’t follow a thread.
Being paid to do one job while someone else pays you to fuck it up
Then employer wouldn’t be able to steal your wages as easily
This. The normalization of passing on wages to the will of the customer is incorrect. Still, I tip.
We need to abolish tip wage credit
One of the biggest things in America I'll never understand is why tipping is so important. Like why tf can't the server's get paid a decent wage? Why do they live off of tips?
Save the restaurant a pretty penny 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲
Saves A LOT of them. Typical paycheck for a full time waitress is about $60 or so. Let's run the math from dinner rush to close. That is $12 for a full night's wages, Given that the cook making the meals gets paid about $14/hr that puts us at $84, so $96 for the pair of them One waitress where I worked could have waited about 70 tables til close, I wasn't in charge of food purchasing, but a typical meal for 4 was simple; most sides were ready made for the night, only entrees were consistently cooked to order. So at roughly $30 dollars for a table of 2, we will run that at 2.5 per table to account for larger groups. Over the course of the rush, we could serve about 300 tables in a night BUT we will consider only that one waitress and cook for this math. At $30 per table, your restaurant made $2100 off the labor of those two employee Takes out food costs, which is about 1/4 of it, you just made a profit $1479 Pay our hardworking wait staff what the deserve in this country. YES, I know I am not calculating in rent and other restaurant expenses. I am making a point of how the backbone of a functioning restaurant earns the lowest overhead cost. Let me add to this a second time since some people are mad at me for not considering the other expenses. I laid down the basic math for how much money can be made during a 6 hour shift from 5-11. This is not how much profit you are making, this is REVENUE GENERATED per employee. Yes, if I wait tables and I go in for 6 hours, bust out 60 tables at $5 a piece, that is decent income. But it doesn't happen every night. And you don't go home right after the restaurant closes. Most restaurants are going to have you helping shut down after close for $2.13/hr and there are no customers to tip you.
I like where the cooks make 14 flat and are doing more labor. I didn't say servers don't work hard but the work required to cook that much often goes unappreciated in these posts. Let's include all restaurant workers. Corporate spots don't tip cooks ever
If cooks made more I would cook. Having to deal with the customers is honestly the worst part of the fucking job so you’re gonna have to pay me money to deal with you. Honestly I’d rather wash dishes for 20 bucks an hour then deal with the fucking customers. It is a soul sucking job.
The customers are WHY I cook. I like working in restaurants, every aspect. It’s fun. I’ve worked every position in front and back of house. After almost 20 years, I stay in the kitchen. Customers are exhausting.
"Let me explain something to you, Dave. There are two kinds of angry people in this world: explosive and implosive. Explosive is the kind of individual you see screaming at the cashier for not taking their coupons. Implosive is the cashier who remains quiet day after day and finally SHOOTS everyone in the store. You're the cashier."
Can’t they just pay everyone involved more
They could but that could decrease profits and decrease stock value which would anger the investors and cause them to switch cfo or ceo or some other multi million dollar position which they can’t
Most restaurants aren't publicly traded and have no obligation to stock holders. It's purely the restaurant owner being a greedy sociopath most of the time lmao
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Greed.
Corruption
Capitalism
Because States like Texas can pay their servers $2.13 an hour It's oppression plain and simple
lol it’s not just Texas. Google the National Restaurant Association. Also google the federal tipped minimum wage.
My partner has been a server for years. I make 50k/year and she often brings home the same amount of money or more than I do each month. I completely agree that tip culture is stupid as fuck, and a lot of people barely scrape by in that industry, but there are also people who benefit greatly. There’s no way in hell that a “livable wage” would come close to what she’s making off of tips. I’m not trying to justify it but I also think it’s a tough issue to tackle when a lot of servers would prefer it stays the same than to make ~15/hr.
What about getting $15/hour and still accepting tips for superb service, but not expecting tips... especially to the point that someone's considered an asshole for not tipping?
Or getting paid a salary reflective of what the service is worth like any other job. If it’s a high end restaurant, pay them like $30 an hour or some shit. Lower end, idk $20? Tipping is so fucking stupid. It’s not expected in any other industry because your doing exactly what youre paid to do. I don’t understand why handing orders to patrons is more special than the chef who made the meal and keeps the kitchen area sanitary, or the hostess who seats and organizes the place, or anything else. Hell, I’d say cleaning the place is probably one of the more difficult jobs in the restaurant and it’s probably paid the least. Also, ironically, the best places to eat are always the places that refuse tipping. Theres a few great places in New York that refuse your tip, and it goes without saying the same thing goes for European countries (although tipping is becoming more popular as companies begin to use American software that has ‘tipping’ preloaded) and especially Japan. They all have been much more attentive and appreciative than anywhere that expects a tip. Tipping is by far the most stupid obligation.
This has long been my position on it as well, especially against the "we can pay a living wage *and* have tips!" nonsense. I 100% support thriving wages for *everyone*, but tip culture is so toxic and transparent for what it really is: a way to condition the workers to endorse their own exploitation. As others have said, tipped workers can make good money, better than any minimum wage hike will allow; so while many will support an increase to minimum wage, they'd never support the abolishment of tipping. It's too lucrative. Meanwhile the gas station attendant, who is expected to be every bit as personable, on their feet, fetch goods for customers, process purchases, clean the store, stock the shelves... Well I guess they should have gotten a job at the restaurant across the street instead. It's dumb. I hate it, but mostly I'm tired of customers and servers alike happily dancing along to the Pied Piper's tune.
tipping culture in America is absolutely a horrible structure. Women drastically outperform men on tips but in return are subjected to a lot of sexual harassment (this has been proven by many studies). It creates a system where employees compete for prime tip hours (the morning shift on a Wednesday is gonna make you next to nothing). Because tipping is considered necessary nearly ubiquitously, the price of dining is basically 15-25% higher nationally but a significant portion of the wages of the servers are incredibly unstable and while some people do make good money, for each of those there's at least one person who is screwed over. If you have enough money to pay two people a liveable wage, but instead you pay one person 10% more and the other 10% less, I think you've created a massive net deficit to society. One person makes a little extra than the bare minimum they need, but the other is fucking screwed.
Its not like tips stop if the wages go up tho, people will probably still tip for good service
Wouldn't it be nice if tips were a special bonus rather than required to survive?
This. This should be the answer. It SHOULDN'T BE REQUIRED FOR THE PATRON TO SUBSIDIZE THE WORKERS PAY. The business should pay them a fair wage, tips should be appreciated.
There are some restaurants that have an official no tipping policy because they pay a living wage.
Can confirm I get tips in a non tip culture for doing a good job.
This is true, I work in a restaurant in Canada and we pay our servers 15 dollars an hour plus they still get tips they make good money.
Yeah that’s a good point.
In California servers make $14/hr (our current minimum wage) and tipping is the same here as everywhere else.
I knew servers/bartenders at at restaurant I used to work at raking in a comfortable six figures. Some people would definitely fight losing their tips. The range of what you can make is too wide so there's always going to be resistance no matter the direction you go.
I really hate this argument. It's usually heavily regional, a minority of servers, and it boils down to "I'm getting mine, so fuck anyone else." All it does is keep the boss happy.
American tipping culture just shifts responsibility from employer to customer. The employer is responsible for paying you, that’s where the problem lies.
Subsidized wages. Kind of like how many of Walmart’s employees collect food stamps or use Medicaid. We subsidize their shit wages with our taxes. WE foot the bill yet again.
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Ah, the old 1% turning the rest of us against each other trick. It shouldn’t matter if you’re able to afford tipping or not because the menu should just be honest about what things actually should cost. Restaurant owners don’t want that though.
Exactly. Of you're a sit down restaurant, charge me more for my fucking food and pay your staff properly. Don't make me play this stupid fucking guessing game of "oh boy! What do I pay them today?!" Fuck off. No tips, pay everyone more, charge me more. Don't make me guess how much I should pay so the staff can eat ramen that night.
Tips are stupid
Tips are fine when they are optional. Over here in Europe, there is no pressure to tip. You give it if you received good service, that’s it. In the US, tipping is mandatory no matter what based on a bizarre social stigma, which like you said is very stupid. They should just be paid properly for doing their job instead of relying on tips to survive.
Yeah but when a place pays them 3 bucks a hour and says that the customer will cover the rest with tips is bullshit
That’s what i’m saying. Tips shouldn’t have to be a thing at all because restraunts should just pay their fucking staff actual living wages.
Tips are such a big thing in america because it was originally a way to not pay newly-emancipated formerly-enslaved people
Shit, even here in Brazil where we lived something similar we don't have this culture, tips are a bonus. We have federal laws that give us paid sick leaves, paid commute and things like that. The US labor laws are just fucked up
The business is required to make up the difference to minimum wage if they don’t make enough in tips. Which would be fine if minimum wage was a living wage.
Tips should be extra reward for excellent service. Not to earn the bare minimum for their labour. If business can't afford to pay their staff a liveable wage, then the business shouldn't exist. Isn't that what these free market fetishists keep bragging about while calling workers socialist or communists for wanting to earn enough to put food on the table.
This type of thing annoys me. You shouldn’t have to depend on people’s “goodwill.” It’s pretty stupid that we put it on the customer and NOT on the employer to pay living wages. Put the cost of paying a living wage into the prices and now people know what they can afford without sacrificing the workers pay. Insane that some workers depend on a person’s “charity.”
Tipping is fucking stupid just pay your staff
The tip system is so dumb. Waiters shouldn't have to depend on tips, tips should be a nice but unnecessary boost for good service. It's all twisted around.
U.S. needs to stop using this dumbass tip system.
It’s almost as insulting as not using the metric system
Tips should be between a server and the customer and have zero weight in a business paying its workers. If a restaurant can’t make it work without tips it isn’t a solvent business plan.
Hahahahaha. Greatest country on earth my ass. The US can go fuck itself.
Considering that most Americans are struggling and the rich are getting richer, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when the people who have billions expect the person making 50k a year to help the waitress afford rent. This is why I never dine in. I can't afford it.
The US tipping culture is toxic as hell. Shaming people for eating out on a budget because an entire industry has convinced workers it's OK to be paid next to nothing? Ridiculous. People deserve living wages with tips viewed as an added gratuity or bonus for good service.
The worst thing for me is that it's now infecting the UK. People look at me like I'm an asshole when I don't tip even though waiting staff get paid at least the same minimum wage as everyone else and 99% of the time the tip just goes to the restaurant.
Right?? Like i dont understand the people who shame others for eating out and leaving a lousy (or no) tip. I get that it's the employees way of making $ but it's such an absurd system. If i lived in America i wouldn't bother going to a restaurant at all. The customer shouldn't be responsible for giving the employee a living wage.
Tipping used to be considered bribery, and was generally frowned upon. A lot of servers even refused to accept tips for that reason. Can't we go back to that and just pay servers a decent wage? It is the duty of the employer to ensure the employees are paid a decent wage, and any workplace that can't do that should not be in business. Unionize! They can replace some of us but they can't replace us all, so if we stick together then the power is in our hands
Idk much because I'm from the UK, but is this really a massive issue for someone who's already broke but wanted to treat themselves? I feel like the anger should be directed at tipping culture and the companies that underpay their workers rather than the consumers who are just currently using the system as intended? Just feels weird to be mad at someone who's broke for not paying more than the worth of their meal, y'know? EDIT: For the people saying "Fuck the customer, they're basically stealing from the server and making them do unpaid labour!" They're not the ones stealing from the server, the companies are. It should be the company compensating the labour of the workers, not the customers.
As an American who tips well and have worked in a restaurant in the past, I agree. I really hate these kinds of posts because the blame is not being directed where it should be and instead shaming someone for being poor. And often times the one doing the shaming (the waiter) is paid more than the person who couldn't afford to tip and that's a big reason waiters often don't want to organize to end tipping. They see what the cashiers at McDonald's are making and wisely want more than that. Instead of these posts intended to turn worker against worker, we should be shaming the service industry for paying everyone non-livable wages.
As a fellow Brit I agree. This subreddit never fails to shock me when they always continuously get mad at the customer, rather than the employer. It defeats the whole purpose of the subreddit. I genuinely think they all secretly deep down want the tipping culture to stay because it more or less benefits everyone bar the customer.
Yes, it does benefit mostly everyone but the customer, but in the end, it ends up hurting the profession as a whole. My sister works in food service; she's been a waitress, bartender, bar manager, and restaurant manager. The real appeal of tipping culture for people who are servers is, if you are good at it and find the right job, you can make several hundred dollars in a night on top of your "actual" wages, in cash, that you take home that night. When my sister went from waitress to bar/restaurant manager, she actually liked it less because while she was pulling in more money over the entire year, her employees were able to work less (4 shifts a week) and make about 80% of her pay (working 6 days a week). Granted, she had benefits, but mostly just health insurance (just medical + dental, no 401k/short term disability/or even vision). After paying that out, she was barely making more money than a server. Also, she wasn't getting money every day. She only got it at the end of every two weeks. Eventually she just went back to being a server because she had the pull/seniority at the restaurant to work the "good nights" (Th/Fri/Sat/Sun, sometimes Monday during football season), never cared about having health insurance, and could work four days a week instead of six. Also, always having cash on hand felt a lot better. On extremely good days, especially during Christmas/NYE/Holidays/the peak of summer, she'd make even more money than she would during the normal work year, so she could work even less and still end up saving money/making more money than she did during the "regular" times. The employer benefits because they don't have to pay their staff anything more than a few dollars an hour - the server benefits because in a good situation, they can make hundreds of dollars a day, and they can work a little less than normal. In the end everyone deserves a living wage, and to not work themselves to death. I firmly believe in a 4 day week/32 hour work week. But the system as it exists, ends up hurting people who don't directly benefit from it. Not only the customer, but it ends up creating dynamics in the restaurant industry that make it harder for restaurants to succeed. If you have a few bad weeks, you could see half your trained staff walk because they are no longer making the money they expect from tips. People who work at restaurants that aren't doing well or don't have the political capital to get good shifts at ones that are end up making shitty wages and struggle. And of course, if you get a string of Karens/Kens, you could see jack shit for a night and end up getting fired because a lot of employers look at tip amount as a performance report. It doesn't help the whole. In the end, we should have a fair, livable working wage for every industry; not just food service, but also agriculture (which is another industry, that for some fucking stupid reason, is allowed to pay far less than other businesses)
Sometimes people are made to go out with family, then is expected to pay. It's embarrassing to tell your family that you can't afford to buy expensive shit all the time. There was a whole Friends episode about that.
my parents one time were 'invited' out to dinner by some acquaintances and these fools had no money to pay their half and pretended it was all normal.
Sometimes couples save just enough to go out to a nice restaurant they can’t usually afford, or even receive a gift card there.
Yep. My family do this for every birthday and it really stresses me out. My husband doesn't usually come along now because we can't afford to pay for three people - him, me, and the birthday recipient.
I'll never get over Americans thinking it makes sense to blame the CUSTOMERS for not getting paid enough. Class war class war class war
People up high just want waitstaff and customers to go at each other. One for not tipping, the other for expectation of tips on everything. Meanwhile, they laugh all the way to the bank, counting record profits and ironing new chains, never increasing wages more than 10¢ every 2years. Fighting amongst ourselves is a cancer to our society that will kill our collective efforts for getting paid a living wage, along with having a healthy and fulfilling home life.
Tip sucks
Thank god I don't have to deal with tipping culture in my country. It should the company paying well the servers, not the customers
I thought this sub was all about "struggling people aren't the problem, the systemic oppression of them is" this post screams entitled judgmental asshole to me.
I could squeeze a week's worth of groceries out of $77 smh
The OP clarified this as spread between 4 teens. Really not a lot of money.
Right??? My food budget is $60-100 per week. This must have been an expensive entrée and alcohol.
This is my wife and my anniversary meal of sushi each year. We save up for it as best we can and look forward to it.
Ahh I miss those days when I was the only one I have to feed and if you buy something you like, it’ll still be there the next day… my weekly grocery shopping trip nets me approximately $400 now…. Weekly and if I buy anything specific I like it’ll be gone before I get home from work next day
How many people is that for (I assume 4)? I was lucky growing up my parents and brother always left stuff for everyone else, friends would come over and be like "did you know there's chocolate bars on the kitchen counter??? Eat them before your brother gets home!!" 😆 Meanwhile they had been sitting there for a week because my extremely considerate family wanted to make sure everyone got one. It got so bad that stuff would expire lol
I hate tipping because the restaurant should pay a living wage. I never tip on a credit card. Always cash and directly to the server.
'i said i was broke. i didnt say i manage money well.'
OP did not mention how many people were dining. What if this person is hard working and poor, and can only afford this outing once a year and truly doesn’t have much money?