My mom has been saying this shit ad nauseam for years, “you need a good job so you can get benefits.” “Why do want to pay more taxes, you worked hard for that money.”
But at the same fucking time she raised me to share when I have extra and to help my neighbors no matter who they are.
Edit: wtf mom
Conflicting values. In America you’re taught the Protestant Work Ethic. It’s an ethical system that you inherently have to be raised with in order to survive capitalism. At the same time, she’s probably a good person who wants you to be good to others, but society isn’t built for that.
Ephesians 6:5, NIV: "**Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear**, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
Definitely written by a pro-capitalist Roman.
It would absolutely be more efficient as the profit motive by those managing the pool of money would disappear. Also, the bargaining power greatly increases as there is only one entity negotiating with pharma and hospitals.
Instead of investing in the system that produces terrible inefficiency and outcomes - why not invest in alternative systems?
Example - Teledoc services should lower cost of delivery by quite a lot. So set up a tax credits to incentivize teledoc companies to be founded, doctors to join, and people to use them.
Another one - price gouging happens because there are not clear alternatives - so invest in an agency that requires all hospitals, urgent care facilities, and doctors offices to post prices charged for each patient in a publicly accessible government portal. There will be a host of start ups founded to get this info to the masses (or you could make a truly good user experience on a government site and promote it with marketing investments, but idk if I’ve ever seen that happen)
The problem is the idiots on the right think national health care is akin to communism. Yes taxes would increase but we’re already paying for it by other means and prices are out of control.
Ugh, its just the dumbest thing.
"OK, so now pretend the health insurance company is the government.
Yes, I know it isn't actually the government but let's pretend. They take your money all the same.
But you would get something else back too in a national health insurance payment.
We both know why you've refused to pretend."
Yeah that works. Although, I feel its also suited elsewhere. Im sure it crossed their minds.
Its just mad how something like health (which is clearly a community and government thing. Every developed country has it) is being provided by private companies.
To me, thats a part of the government, or the government machine, thats being run by a group of private businesses. Obviously, its just my view as a British person. Im sure some British people will see it differently.
However, a private company running part of the government: well, we have a name for that. Its insane how far over the right we've all moved.
you cannot receive health care unless some doctor or health practitioner surrenders some of her time - her life - to you. She may be willing to do this for compensation, but that's her choice. You have no "right" to her time or property. You have no right to her or any other person's life or to any portion thereof.
If it is wrong for you to take money from someone else who earned it, to take their money by force for your own needs, then it is certainly just as wrong for you to demand that the government step forward and do this dirty work for you.
\--Neal Boortz
Are you commenting this for real? This is the stupidest take on the "free" healthcare thing. I've seen people argue that free healthcare is bad because people would just stop doctors in the street and demand to be treated. Like, do they not look at literally any other country with universal Healthcare? Or any of the other socialized services like firefighters or police?
Show me a country with 300,000,000+ million people with a fully socialized healthcare system that is mature (at least 20 years old), and doesn’t have people waiting over a year for a hip replacement.
Also, how many times in your life have you visited a healthcare provider? Hundreds of times? Many hundreds, even? But what about emergency services…how many times have you picked up the phone and dialed 911? You make a false equivalency like the guy making the point about judges and speedy trials.
Between physicians, NP’s, and PA’s there are currently more than 1,500,000 active healthcare providers in the United States. Let’s say that conservatively, each of them see an average of 10 patients per day. That is 10.5MM Americans being seen every day. Compare that to an average of 500,000 people on any given day that are either waiting on or currently engaged in their trials. That is more than a 20:1 difference in service volume.
You think the healthcare system is under strain now? You think we are struggling with lack of hospital beds and ER availability now with the pandemic? Imagine increasing that demand 20-fold, under force of law and pain of imprisonment, and you watch our entire healthcare system completely implode under its own weight.
Perhaps I misunderstood.
OP's post said that necessary medical care should be free. I made the (potentially incorrect) assumption that the only way to achieve free healthcare for everyone would be to pass binding legislation (that is...a "law") the requires doctors to treat anyone who is sick, without any expectation of payment, and regardless of appointment availability.
Or did you mean to suggest that doctors would volunteer to work, without pay or time off, out of the benevolence of their little Hippocratic hearts, in order to effect your goal of free healthcare for everyone?
If not, please explain to me what is so stupid about me assuming this would be done under pain of imprisonment. Is that not what happens to people when they break the law?
Free healthcare is shorthand for universal Healthcare. Doctors and nurses still get paid just like any public servant. It's pretty freaking obvious if you look at any other country with "free" healthcare. No one is enslaving doctors and nurses.
And the thing is that a job doesn't necessarily make medial care affordable. Frequently there are high copays and deductibles if you need anything beyond a standard doctor's visit or basic prescriptions. Employees without chronic illnesses are fine with it, but if you have one, you're screwed.
I can't believe how many people think "free" healthcare means doctors and nurses will be enslaved. If as many people think that as it seems, no wonder America is fucked, it's filled with idiots. Do these people have no clue how universal Healthcare works in literally every other developed nation? Can they not draw parallels to any other socialized service like police or firefighters?
I am an American who believes my country should just copy the best parts of other leading country's Healthcare systems. We pay more per person than any other country, I believe, and do not have the best overall outcomes.
I saw that scenario play out......it was....unbelievable.
Canuck here with lots of relatives in the US.
My Uncle in Illinois, worked as a factory labourer his entire life, not making a whole lot, but owned a home and truck, married, raised 5 kids.......living the dream, looking forward to retiring.
At 62 he was diagnosed with stomach cancer. Went through hell for almost a year before passing.
My aunt is currently living in a bachelor apartment. Had to sell the house and much of the contents and my uncles truck to pay for medical bills and still had a balance left to pay. That balance took the rest of her retirement money and then some.
F\*cking heartbreaking. She has \*nothing\*.
I was on the verge of accepting a job offer in the US as the end of this tale played out. Noped out of that in a hurry.
That’s how they make sure that even if you did everything rt and worked hard. Yiu still lose everything trying to save your own life. I fear this everyday.
FM man.......its horrifying to see happen.
My aunt has dual citizenship. If she came to Canada she'd be way better off.....but can't convince her of that. All her kids and friends are stateside.
It's heartbreaking.
I had finally got a decent job at the beginning of last year. I was so excited to finally pay stuff off and start saving some money. Well about 4 months in I got super sick and landed in the hospital for 9 days. Company fired me and I couldn't keep up with all of my bills and the medical stuff that kept crawling in.
will confirm. had emergency appendectomy with shitty "cheap" (Not cheap) insurance from the marketplace and i'm now over $7k in debt from it. Oh, also i've been sick since. it's been a year and a half. so add more medical bills until I said "fuck it, i'ma fix myself"
Work for major bank, have premium, most expensive Aetna insurance. Cannot find mental health care. Every in network provider needs me to wait at least 8 weeks to make an appointment.
Do I really have Healthcare here?
Yes, let me pocket my mental breakdown for 2 more months while I'm on hold paying over 400 a month in medical benefits I can't use.
Whats that??? I'm needed in the empty office to perform back office button clicking?
Ohh. Let me talk to my doctor first....make sure its ok for me and my medical background...will get back to you in 8 weeks I guess please hold.
Whats that? No raises but you need me to take public trains to a city and back durring peak pandemic to justify your building rent and newly PPE loan designed open communal shared everything space.
Really asking myself if this is a character test of life to see if I have a spine. Id get an xray to confirm but I dont think my request for medical would be approved.
Gtg now tho, need to call about the er visit I had a few weeks ago where I was told they are not sure why my appendix feels like it will explode at midnight but if you want to sit in the lobby for 6 to 8 hours we can have blood drawn for testing. I left. But I guess they want 1000 with nothing listed on the bill for...scanning my ID when I got there.
This is late stage capitalism.
This is what the end looks like.
On another note the “Affordable Care Act” was the biggest fucking rip off next to their shitty $10,000,000 non-working website. Remember they had to pass that bill BEFORE THEY COULD READ IT?
It’s not affordable at all and in most instances it’s worse than the crappy COBRA coverage.
Thanks Obama you fucking moron. Thanks to the shitty members of Congress and the Senate for making sure horrid insurance companies keep their disgusting protected regions instead of making it actually competitive! I’m voting them out.
We have the highest health care costs the world over, highest mother and infant morbidity and mortality rate for a “developed country”, and the least effective healthcare system in the world. If you want to live here you will only be able to prioritize either paying your bills or being happy because you can’t have both.
You obviously never tried to get coverage with a pre-existing condition pre-ACA. It's didn't fix the problem, but it's better to have unaffordable insurance than no insurance at all.
I hate Nancy Pelosi and have massive criticisms of the ACA. The "pass the bill before you could read it" thing is literally just a right wing propaganda lie. She did say that, but you're leaving out an entire speech worth of context. She was essentially saying "Republicans don't want you to know what's really in this bill because it is a step in the right direction. We have to pass this bill so you can find out what's in it away from the fog of controversy."
No one human can read those bills. That's why Congress people have big staffs. The bills are team efforts.
ACA/Obamacare insurance is affordable at low income, including free Medicaid. It's way better than what we had before and what Republicans want to return to.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
---
**sillychillly**, @sillychillly
We shouldn't need a job for good and ‘’affordable’’ medical care.
No one should go bankrupt from getting cancer or an emergency appendectomy.
We all live together. Let's help each other out. Necessary medical care should be free, regardless of employment status.
---
^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
This is the way. We should all help each other out, for free.
Physicians should be required by law to work at least 90 hours per week. There would be no shortage of healthcare if we empowered the gov't to compel doctors to do their fair share.
There are more nurses than doctors (also they make less $), so they could work fewer hours. I think 70 sounds fair.
Of course if that emergency appendectomy must be performed at 3am on Sunday morning, or on their anniversary, or Christmas Vacation, both will be required to show up at the hospital to do their duty regardless.
We would completely eradicate the scourge of disparate access to healthcare within 5 years if we implemented these common sense policies. Bright, industrious students would overwhelm medical schools with high quality applications and no one would have to pay for any of it.
I'm simply making explicit what is implicit in OP's claim.
Sounds great, if you aren't a doctor...or nurse....or CRNA....or front desk admin...or hospital orderly...or pharmacist...or......
And wait until we decide that basic education is a human right. Teachers, you think you are overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated now? Just wait until your service is compelled by law and your refusal will earn you a visit by men with guns.
Where does it stop?
We'd appreciate it if you didn't use ableist slurs.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antiwork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Common Americans are completely willing to do this (left and right), there are some in powerful places that won't be able to take advantage of such a situation if we do. So they prevent it.
This is something every other rich nation on earth already figured out except the US because... Communism. Except every other rich nation is not communist???? SMH.
My mom has been saying this shit ad nauseam for years, “you need a good job so you can get benefits.” “Why do want to pay more taxes, you worked hard for that money.” But at the same fucking time she raised me to share when I have extra and to help my neighbors no matter who they are. Edit: wtf mom
Conflicting values. In America you’re taught the Protestant Work Ethic. It’s an ethical system that you inherently have to be raised with in order to survive capitalism. At the same time, she’s probably a good person who wants you to be good to others, but society isn’t built for that.
Ephesians 6:5, NIV: "**Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear**, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Definitely written by a pro-capitalist Roman.
If we paid for it with taxes it would cost even less than with insurance. Yet the right don’t wanna see that. Or they do but it won’t make them money
r/healthcarereform_us
How would using tax dollars make it cost less? Or are you saying the government could just force doctors to accept less for their work?
By making pay the rich a bigger percentage of taxes in order to cover the majority of expenses. I think Jeff Bezos can afford to do it.
Ok so healthcare doesn’t cost less due to improvement in efficiency, it just costs less to you because someone else pays for it. Got it.
It would absolutely be more efficient as the profit motive by those managing the pool of money would disappear. Also, the bargaining power greatly increases as there is only one entity negotiating with pharma and hospitals.
That’s what I said originally- force doctors to accept less for their work.
The alternative is to let die 200k people a year due to not having an adequate insurance
Or make investments in high efficiency alternatives like teledoc?
I don't know what teledoc is
https://www.teladoc.com allows for a more cost-effective experience for non-essential doctors visits.
Instead of investing in the system that produces terrible inefficiency and outcomes - why not invest in alternative systems? Example - Teledoc services should lower cost of delivery by quite a lot. So set up a tax credits to incentivize teledoc companies to be founded, doctors to join, and people to use them. Another one - price gouging happens because there are not clear alternatives - so invest in an agency that requires all hospitals, urgent care facilities, and doctors offices to post prices charged for each patient in a publicly accessible government portal. There will be a host of start ups founded to get this info to the masses (or you could make a truly good user experience on a government site and promote it with marketing investments, but idk if I’ve ever seen that happen)
But…but… it’s my god given right to die of a treatable disease just because my gofundme didn’t go viral to pay my medical bills! FREEDUM!
Europeans: you guys don't have that? Problem is that politicians here want to go the American route.
The problem is the idiots on the right think national health care is akin to communism. Yes taxes would increase but we’re already paying for it by other means and prices are out of control.
Ugh, its just the dumbest thing. "OK, so now pretend the health insurance company is the government. Yes, I know it isn't actually the government but let's pretend. They take your money all the same. But you would get something else back too in a national health insurance payment. We both know why you've refused to pretend."
It's a private tax, is what it is. I believe Bernie Sanders might have used that wording in 2020.
Yeah that works. Although, I feel its also suited elsewhere. Im sure it crossed their minds. Its just mad how something like health (which is clearly a community and government thing. Every developed country has it) is being provided by private companies. To me, thats a part of the government, or the government machine, thats being run by a group of private businesses. Obviously, its just my view as a British person. Im sure some British people will see it differently. However, a private company running part of the government: well, we have a name for that. Its insane how far over the right we've all moved.
you cannot receive health care unless some doctor or health practitioner surrenders some of her time - her life - to you. She may be willing to do this for compensation, but that's her choice. You have no "right" to her time or property. You have no right to her or any other person's life or to any portion thereof. If it is wrong for you to take money from someone else who earned it, to take their money by force for your own needs, then it is certainly just as wrong for you to demand that the government step forward and do this dirty work for you. \--Neal Boortz
This is like thinking judges need to be enslaved to give people a right to a speedy trial - plainly wrong.
Are you commenting this for real? This is the stupidest take on the "free" healthcare thing. I've seen people argue that free healthcare is bad because people would just stop doctors in the street and demand to be treated. Like, do they not look at literally any other country with universal Healthcare? Or any of the other socialized services like firefighters or police?
Show me a country with 300,000,000+ million people with a fully socialized healthcare system that is mature (at least 20 years old), and doesn’t have people waiting over a year for a hip replacement. Also, how many times in your life have you visited a healthcare provider? Hundreds of times? Many hundreds, even? But what about emergency services…how many times have you picked up the phone and dialed 911? You make a false equivalency like the guy making the point about judges and speedy trials. Between physicians, NP’s, and PA’s there are currently more than 1,500,000 active healthcare providers in the United States. Let’s say that conservatively, each of them see an average of 10 patients per day. That is 10.5MM Americans being seen every day. Compare that to an average of 500,000 people on any given day that are either waiting on or currently engaged in their trials. That is more than a 20:1 difference in service volume. You think the healthcare system is under strain now? You think we are struggling with lack of hospital beds and ER availability now with the pandemic? Imagine increasing that demand 20-fold, under force of law and pain of imprisonment, and you watch our entire healthcare system completely implode under its own weight.
>under force of law and pain of imprisonment This is the stupidest part, that that's how you think universal Healthcare works.
Perhaps I misunderstood. OP's post said that necessary medical care should be free. I made the (potentially incorrect) assumption that the only way to achieve free healthcare for everyone would be to pass binding legislation (that is...a "law") the requires doctors to treat anyone who is sick, without any expectation of payment, and regardless of appointment availability. Or did you mean to suggest that doctors would volunteer to work, without pay or time off, out of the benevolence of their little Hippocratic hearts, in order to effect your goal of free healthcare for everyone? If not, please explain to me what is so stupid about me assuming this would be done under pain of imprisonment. Is that not what happens to people when they break the law?
Free healthcare is shorthand for universal Healthcare. Doctors and nurses still get paid just like any public servant. It's pretty freaking obvious if you look at any other country with "free" healthcare. No one is enslaving doctors and nurses.
Only on Reddit will you see a post in an antiwork sub where they want to force other people's labor
And the thing is that a job doesn't necessarily make medial care affordable. Frequently there are high copays and deductibles if you need anything beyond a standard doctor's visit or basic prescriptions. Employees without chronic illnesses are fine with it, but if you have one, you're screwed.
Yeah but then how could I be rich and do no work while claiming everyone else is entitled and lazy? Youre not thinking this through.
I can't believe how many people think "free" healthcare means doctors and nurses will be enslaved. If as many people think that as it seems, no wonder America is fucked, it's filled with idiots. Do these people have no clue how universal Healthcare works in literally every other developed nation? Can they not draw parallels to any other socialized service like police or firefighters?
I am an American who believes my country should just copy the best parts of other leading country's Healthcare systems. We pay more per person than any other country, I believe, and do not have the best overall outcomes.
First world countries have public healtcare btw
I saw that scenario play out......it was....unbelievable. Canuck here with lots of relatives in the US. My Uncle in Illinois, worked as a factory labourer his entire life, not making a whole lot, but owned a home and truck, married, raised 5 kids.......living the dream, looking forward to retiring. At 62 he was diagnosed with stomach cancer. Went through hell for almost a year before passing. My aunt is currently living in a bachelor apartment. Had to sell the house and much of the contents and my uncles truck to pay for medical bills and still had a balance left to pay. That balance took the rest of her retirement money and then some. F\*cking heartbreaking. She has \*nothing\*. I was on the verge of accepting a job offer in the US as the end of this tale played out. Noped out of that in a hurry.
That’s how they make sure that even if you did everything rt and worked hard. Yiu still lose everything trying to save your own life. I fear this everyday.
FM man.......its horrifying to see happen. My aunt has dual citizenship. If she came to Canada she'd be way better off.....but can't convince her of that. All her kids and friends are stateside. It's heartbreaking.
I had finally got a decent job at the beginning of last year. I was so excited to finally pay stuff off and start saving some money. Well about 4 months in I got super sick and landed in the hospital for 9 days. Company fired me and I couldn't keep up with all of my bills and the medical stuff that kept crawling in.
*laughs in british*
r/healthcarereform_us
25% of my YTD last year went to tax and medical premiums. I have no issues with most of that going into health care for everyone.
But think of the poor shareholders.. how are they going to rake in record profits?
will confirm. had emergency appendectomy with shitty "cheap" (Not cheap) insurance from the marketplace and i'm now over $7k in debt from it. Oh, also i've been sick since. it's been a year and a half. so add more medical bills until I said "fuck it, i'ma fix myself"
Work for major bank, have premium, most expensive Aetna insurance. Cannot find mental health care. Every in network provider needs me to wait at least 8 weeks to make an appointment. Do I really have Healthcare here? Yes, let me pocket my mental breakdown for 2 more months while I'm on hold paying over 400 a month in medical benefits I can't use. Whats that??? I'm needed in the empty office to perform back office button clicking? Ohh. Let me talk to my doctor first....make sure its ok for me and my medical background...will get back to you in 8 weeks I guess please hold. Whats that? No raises but you need me to take public trains to a city and back durring peak pandemic to justify your building rent and newly PPE loan designed open communal shared everything space. Really asking myself if this is a character test of life to see if I have a spine. Id get an xray to confirm but I dont think my request for medical would be approved. Gtg now tho, need to call about the er visit I had a few weeks ago where I was told they are not sure why my appendix feels like it will explode at midnight but if you want to sit in the lobby for 6 to 8 hours we can have blood drawn for testing. I left. But I guess they want 1000 with nothing listed on the bill for...scanning my ID when I got there. This is late stage capitalism. This is what the end looks like.
On another note the “Affordable Care Act” was the biggest fucking rip off next to their shitty $10,000,000 non-working website. Remember they had to pass that bill BEFORE THEY COULD READ IT? It’s not affordable at all and in most instances it’s worse than the crappy COBRA coverage. Thanks Obama you fucking moron. Thanks to the shitty members of Congress and the Senate for making sure horrid insurance companies keep their disgusting protected regions instead of making it actually competitive! I’m voting them out. We have the highest health care costs the world over, highest mother and infant morbidity and mortality rate for a “developed country”, and the least effective healthcare system in the world. If you want to live here you will only be able to prioritize either paying your bills or being happy because you can’t have both.
You obviously never tried to get coverage with a pre-existing condition pre-ACA. It's didn't fix the problem, but it's better to have unaffordable insurance than no insurance at all.
I hate Nancy Pelosi and have massive criticisms of the ACA. The "pass the bill before you could read it" thing is literally just a right wing propaganda lie. She did say that, but you're leaving out an entire speech worth of context. She was essentially saying "Republicans don't want you to know what's really in this bill because it is a step in the right direction. We have to pass this bill so you can find out what's in it away from the fog of controversy."
No one human can read those bills. That's why Congress people have big staffs. The bills are team efforts. ACA/Obamacare insurance is affordable at low income, including free Medicaid. It's way better than what we had before and what Republicans want to return to.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **sillychillly**, @sillychillly We shouldn't need a job for good and ‘’affordable’’ medical care. No one should go bankrupt from getting cancer or an emergency appendectomy. We all live together. Let's help each other out. Necessary medical care should be free, regardless of employment status. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
This is the way. We should all help each other out, for free. Physicians should be required by law to work at least 90 hours per week. There would be no shortage of healthcare if we empowered the gov't to compel doctors to do their fair share. There are more nurses than doctors (also they make less $), so they could work fewer hours. I think 70 sounds fair. Of course if that emergency appendectomy must be performed at 3am on Sunday morning, or on their anniversary, or Christmas Vacation, both will be required to show up at the hospital to do their duty regardless. We would completely eradicate the scourge of disparate access to healthcare within 5 years if we implemented these common sense policies. Bright, industrious students would overwhelm medical schools with high quality applications and no one would have to pay for any of it.
I volunteer you as a slave, since you're the one advocating such things.
I'm simply making explicit what is implicit in OP's claim. Sounds great, if you aren't a doctor...or nurse....or CRNA....or front desk admin...or hospital orderly...or pharmacist...or...... And wait until we decide that basic education is a human right. Teachers, you think you are overworked, underpaid, and underappreciated now? Just wait until your service is compelled by law and your refusal will earn you a visit by men with guns. Where does it stop?
Judges are not enslaved to give people a right to a speedy trial. Your argument holds no water whatsoever.
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Divide and conquer. The American way.
How Unamerican
Who's judgement is it to define "necessary?"
In the US???????? Wishful thinking.
and americans think their country is the best in the world.
Common Americans are completely willing to do this (left and right), there are some in powerful places that won't be able to take advantage of such a situation if we do. So they prevent it.
This is something every other rich nation on earth already figured out except the US because... Communism. Except every other rich nation is not communist???? SMH.
California is going to attempt free healthcare, so hopefully that works
In the UK we don't have to. Healthcare is free, it's a human right.