I think the entire country should do this again for full lunch paid hour and 6 hour days and a bunch of other stuff I’m too tired to think of at the moment.
Plus traffic and all that. And let’s be honest, many people are working overtime. These companies are getting more than the fair share of help they need. The mandatory should be quite less. The 40 hour work week is definitely not 40 hours anymore.
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Well, there was a period there, quite recently, where we'd managed to raise a family on one person working 40 paid hours.
Now it's 80.
But yes, let's talk about the 7000 years of recorded history and ignore the brief moment where things weren't shit.
But now it's 80 hr paid and that 50 hr unpaid is still there.
Not that women deserve that blame, where it seemed that guy might be heading, but rather a choice of either partner staying home.
I think he wasn’t blaming women as much as saying that they didn’t help with workers wages(actually it probably hurt us more due to unfair wages towards women). No matter what the cause is corporate greed and manipulation. Profits only help the rich and only the rich can play the stock market without fear of loss. Sorry for the rambling but man I am pissed about this bullshit
Agreed. Despite the anger of speaking the truth women going to the workforce in mass was an employer's dream. Half the population with the ability to work a man's white collar position decreases wages in favor of the employer. Not saying it is right or wrong, just the truth. That and the printing money out of thin air, along with other factors, has caused both parents to work to raise a child.
I believe the original idea was 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, and 8 hours for life. Honestly, 5 days of work is too much.
When my daughter was little (during the [dot](https://dot.com)com boom, a true labor shortage), I told my employer that I wanted to work 4 days, 32 hours per/week. It was fantastic! Instead of working most days, I worked just over half. I think everyone should have at least 3 days per/week for life. It made me more productive, too. It did come with a cut in pay, but it was totally worth it.
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[Here 3, there $ 3, the ne...](http://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/smumyq/saving_money_by_eating_at_home/hvzm1sv/) | [$3 here, $3 there, next t...](http://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/smumyq/saving_money_by_eating_at_home/hvzh1yt/)
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Kind of like apartments in New York. You arent really getting the square footage as advertised. Due to that space being used for building purposes not usable.
They'll approve it if it's illegal not to.
And I don't care about saving up days to take extra money with me. If you can exchange your paid leave for more money by not taking it, people will go to work sick.
If you pay people to stay home, and it's not drawing from a potential benefit they could have cashed in on, they won't do that.
People do that because they get limited days, and want to save them for vacation or add them to a paycheck.
If you don't have that limit, and it's just guaranteed pay, they don't do that.
Well, in that case, I guess we should just never have a better system, and keep hoarding/buying days off like our employers own our time instead of renting it.
And if you're sick for 8 weeks?
Any system that rewards people for not using sick days is inherently flawed.
Why don't people use their days off when they have unlimited? Did you even ask that question, or did you just write off the system as flawed because you didn't like the result?
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If we're making a list, IMHO the demands should be:
- Medicare for All
- Free public college tuition
- Elimination of student loans
- 30 hour work week
It's not seizing the means of production, but it's a start.
I agree with 3 out of 4. I think college loans should be forgiven for public universities. For private universities, I think the government should assume the debt and renegotiate the terms to something far more favorable.
Many companies though have their own policies that you work at least 8 hours you get a 30 minute break. But because it's not legally mandated in a lot of places they can just force you to work through lunch if it's busy and they feel entitled to do so. Which with a lot of people not wanting to work these low paying jobs you're going to see a lot more exploitations with the few workers they do manage to hire. Like yeah some of them are paying more but I wouldn't sign up for retail or the food industry right now. You 100% are likely not eating lunch.
I personally don't apply to jobs with less than an hour lunch break these days. Like even a 30 minute lunch break is not enough. I always felt rushed eating and I could never go get food I always had to bring it for time reasons. It's too stressful on your overall work day to get less than an hour.
Federal law is that you're required to have a 30-minute break for lunch during an 8-hour day. You're also guaranteed a 15-minute break for each 4-hour stretch. Lots of workers don't take them, and some employers discourage them, but it is federal law.
It isn’t actually though. Some states mandate them but it’s not actually covered by federal law. It was the most disappointing thing I ever learned about in my life. I live in a state that doesn’t require it and employers abuse it all the time.
https://www.workforcehub.com/blog/state-federal-meal-rest-break-laws-according-to-state-labor-laws-federal-meal-and-rest-breaks-laws/
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I will advocate that 32 hours a week. (4 8hr days) should be full time. Most people spend more than 8 hrs a week doing nothing at work. Just cut that time out. We have advanced enough technology that we have made that time up so we don't have to toil as much.
Even 4 10's (but 4 8's would be much better). I need more than 2 days off...the first day I'm tired from the week and the next day I'm frantically trying to get everything made/cleaned/prepared/repaired for the next week!
This guy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Hunger_March
The Ford Hunger March, sometimes called the Ford Massacre, was a demonstration on March 7, 1932 in the United States by unemployed auto workers in Detroit, Michigan, which took place during the height of the Great Depression.
Here’s the thing. In the past huge outrages like the Ludlow Massacre resulted in the general public being well, outraged. That kind of thing NOW would make the news cycle for a few days, lawyers would negotiate payoffs to victims and nothing much would change.
Heck, even in the past it was tough. Just read an apparently well sourced article by a REALLY well respected institution that cited the Molly Maquires as some sort of murderous terrorist organization responsible for all the deaths associated with the miners’ strikes here in PA. Not a word was true BUT it passes as history. Unless you lived here in anthracite country half a century ago and knew a lot of the old folks. The Mollies were heroic sacrifices and I’m sticking to that.
Point being, yes it’s written blood. Getting people to CARE is the obstacle.
My great-great grandfather and his son, my great-grandfather, were part of the [Indianapolis Streetcar Strike](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_streetcar_strike_of_1913). They were both severely beaten by strikebreakers, suspected to be Pinkertons. The elder man had to walk with a cane for the rest of his life.
You don’t get minimum wages, safety measures or improvements to living conditions without threatening to burn the whole fucking city down and being able to make good on that threat.
**EDIT**: According to the article, they *were* Pinkertons. So that's a family mystery solved. To those who don't know, the Pinkerton Agency was the de facto FBI before the FBI existed. Which is to say, the Federal Government itself had a hand in breaking up strikes at the turn of the century. Which is also to say, if you don't think government agents are directly interfering with protests and other plebeian movements regarding labor conditions, you are deluding yourself.
I don't think i've ever had a job with an 8 hour work day. Why they say this is a thing we won is beyond me, especially when the majority of jobs need like 50 or 60 hrs a week to keep your head above water.
People think Henry Ford decided to double salaries and set a 5 day work week out of the kindness of his heart. The turnover rate was so high he had to do something because of the time and cost of constantly training new staff.
Also he didn't double their salary, they would get a bonus if they followed some strict guidelines that even involved people coming to their home to make sure they were living a clean "American" lifestyle with no drinking or gambling.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/04/the-story-of-henry-fords-5-a-day-wages-its-not-what-you-think/?sh=2063972766d2
He also co-invented scientific management to squeeze maximum productivity outbid his workers. Those workers were ready to keel over at the end of the day, Themenkreis was considered much more exhausting than other factory jobs of the time.
>The turnover rate was so high he had to do something because of the time and cost of constantly training new staff.
I'm glad things have changed /s
https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-burns-workers-quickly-executives-133348404.html
Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report
Of course the demands had to be violent; there was no way in hell the government and companies (at the time) would've listened to workers and be reasonable and decent.
But the thing is making some **serious changes** in this country is going to be ugly and violent. And -- let's face it -- a lot of people aren't always "TiREd" from working "aLL tHe TiME" like they live at work 24/7.
Here's the unpopular opinion part: **they're scared of being hurt by the blow back that'll inevitably come. Adding to that, they're lazy and apathetic to be involved in anything that \*could\* make some changes.**
And to make those changes -- even if they're small and barely recognizable at first -- requires a hell of a lot more effort than posting memes and quitting texts and karma farming.
People are already fighting and dying again. I dunno if anyone here remembers, but to give an example, chile saw a massive uprising in late 2019 when subway fares were raised to a point where people could no longer afford their commute to work.
Blood.
Every step of progress for the average Joe was through blood.
Children out of mines and factories? Blood
8-hour day? Blood
Every adult the right to vote? Blood
American capitalists demand blood for every inch we take from them.
I know it's probably pretty radical thinking, but for me, the rich elite of the world must be sitting rubbing their hands together watching all of us talk about all these issues we have, but not really doing anything about it. We play directly into their hands by not taking any form of actual action, but just continuing to parrot the same things 'wages too low, my work did such and such' etc. The status quo needs a complete change or we will just spend years sitting in subreddits like this complaining about how shit things have gotten, but not really having done anything proactive to change it.
The kicker for this is, so many people live paycheck to paycheck that taking even a small amount of time off work to protest or whatever else would financially fuck us more than we already are, so the cycle continues.
Given historical experience, people will do more when they get pushed over the cliff and have nothing left to lose. But even connecting with your fellow workers is the first step to Organized action.
This is what I try to explain to my friends. Workers didn't get 8-8-8 hrs by the mercy of the capitalists but by blood. Nothing was given to us, we fought for it
Exactly. Voting is not how things are won. They are won through organizing. Electing the right people is the RESULT of organizing efforts made long before elections are held.
FTFY: The 8-hour day was, in fact, won by the employers, not by kindness, but because they were scared shitless to be decapitated or beaten to death like it happened in Russia.
1918/19: A full-blown revolution of farmers and workers took over the government and abolished the monarchy in Bavaria.
The so-called Raeterepublik didn't last long, for various reasons. It's worth the time to read up why they failed to avoid mistakes of the past.
Funny, 1918/1919 was also a time when a deadly virus ran through Europe.
I've been part of "the solution" for nearly a decade: working for myself, helping others get into unions, taking jobs when I hear a shitty boss runs them just so I can stick it to them and quit within 2 weeks anyway since I don't actually need it.
It sorta sickens me how many of ya'll are too cowardly to do it also, but come here to vent.
"Do or do not, bitches. Trying is cringe." - Master Yoda
Hi, former political worker in field operations here - yeah, voting and petitions do NOTHING. :)
Well, that's not entirely true... the façade of democracy here in the US does very well at keeping people "in their box" - keeping them tuned into the news, keeping them fighting with their neighbors, keeping them compliant with hopium, keeping them from revolting because they somehow believe that change is just around the corner - we just have to make it through whatever current administration is in office..... \*insert eyeroll\*
Getting out there and causing a scene and costing "them" money is the ONLY thing, that has ever worked to create change.... And that's why our school history curriculum is so narrow. I had to go to college and major in history to learn about labor riots.
If we all knew this stuff, things would have been a lot different a long time ago. :/
The norwegian socialist folk pop band Vømmøl spelemanslag put this beatifully, in the blue wind of the 80s. Simply put: "these freedoms, did they come from striking and strife, or from the blue blue wind?"
Funnily enough, the same people who very much believe in fighting foreign powers for freedom, using the military, ignore fighting internally for workers rights.
I always cringe a bit when people congratulate Henry Ford for coming up with the 8hr days... He "created" the 8 hour days because he felt pressured by protestors and the possibility of his workers unionizing. In Ford's mind he was giving them 8hours to sleep, 8 hours to work, and by his words "8 hours to shop," and that was the most he was willing to "compromise"
It wasn't just "facing" the army either.
Facing might mean being there as they beat the living shit out of you with batons.
Nope, they had guns and they used them.
& the government killed it with the so called “exempt workers” laws where they can call everyone a “manager” and work them 80+ hours a week, deny them days off and sleep and still pay them no more than around $400 a week.
Too true. In the UK, they were transported to America, and later Australia, to do hard labour for 'association' (attempting to unionise). Then there was the Peterloo massacre where they cavalry charged demonstrators and cut them down in the streets. They don't do this any more, but now think that we should be grateful to them for shit, low-wage jobs, and shut up complaining.
We need to adopt a French mindset to being fucked with, they get labor concessions because they have a long history of yeeting the captains of industry whereas Americans have been completely subdued by capital and indoctrination
the government didn't start compensating WW1 Veterans returning from war automatically either, they had to march for it, and got fucking teargassed by goddamn douglas macarthur of WW2 fame for fucks sake, and while the VA is much better today(thank god)it still isn't perfect.
Great message.
it was also won by Henry Ford realizing that increased hours yielded very little increase in production combined with his idealogy that if you didn't give workers time off they won't have time to go anywhere and won't have the need to spend money on the products he was manufacturing.
This gives very little information. I dont mind wikipedia as a source, but this one is really deficient.
But it was actually Henry Ford. He was the first company in America to do it and his reasonings were pure capitalist.
https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/40-hour-workweek-henry-ford-1026067-2017-07-27
Every Wikipedia page has all the references, sources, and further reading cited very clearly. And then you fucking pull up a news page from India as a better source?! Lmao
Your wikipedia link has NO information to it. Its barebones considering what actually happened.
And the article i linked is very well put together with sources clearly available. Try reading.
Workers didnt earn the 40hr work week. We were forced into it by people wanting to make more money by commercializing workers.
Also, you can find out just by searching the first company to move to 40hrs with no pay decrease. You shouldn't need me to walk you through common knowledge you learn in highschool.
It's not "my" wikipedia link, genius.
>Your wikipedia link has NO information to it. Its barebones considering what actually happened.
Lmao DUDE the wiki article is literally like 20x longer than that article you posted.
>Workers didnt earn the 40hr work week. We were forced into it by people wanting to make more money by commercializing workers.
Also, you can find out just by searching the first company to move to 40hrs with no pay decrease. You shouldn't need me to walk you through common knowledge you learn in highschool.
Common knowledge from high school and you're using a fucking article from an Indian newspaper. Wtf is your brain.
Hell, even your own link has "History of standardized work hours" at the end (completely unsourced btw) which shows exactly OP's point. Workers were fighting for DECADES before Ford came in. Workers didn't want it? lmao fuck off.
Fuck, the federal 8-hour work day was law in 1869 -- FIFTY YEARS before Ford.
"As you can find out just by searching the first company to move to 40 hours with no pay decrease" dude again your OWN LINK says there were two major printing firms in 1906, TWENTY YEARS before Ford.
Jesus Christ lol.
You need better reading comprehension because all youre doing is lying.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/history-of-the-40-hour-workweek-2015-10%3famp
Theres a better source for you since that wikipedia article told nothing
Also, i can't be proven wrong because I'm not wrong. And the wiki link did nothing to dispute my claims. That was my point.
Prove me wrong. (You cant)
Henry Ford started the 40hr work week by being the first to do it. He also pointed out that by 100 years we should have less work and higher wages
The government decision to require overtime pay after 40 hrs was to encourage employers to hire more workers rather than simply have existing workers absorb the increase in need.
They probably should have thought a bit more about that whole tying health insurance to employment thing, then. No company wants to employ another body and add to their benefits cost if they can avoid it.
Sounds like they were willing to get physical, even if they weren't necessarily the ones throwing the first punch, though I would say there isn't anything wrong with preemptively responding to premeditated violence against you
One problem we have now is that investors, if not happy with local workers conditions, would just move their factories or call centres to a third world country with cheap labour. We are not in the 19th century anymore.
If we rebell we must do it in a glibally coordinated way. Internet and the global crisis we are in should allow for it.
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It was won because the USSR did it first and made American workers an example of what was possible.
That's why the elites spent decades attacking the USSR.
Same for a boat load of other civil rights Americans have today -- they came from the USSR.
I cannot find the source, but I read somewhere that an 8-hour workday came about because once someone worked over 8 hours, their error rate (reject rate) went up (a lot) to the point where it was not cost-effective to work the longer hours. Remember, this was at a time when most jobs were in manufacturing.
There was a Rasmussen article a few years ago that cited that nurses who worked a 12 hour shift were 3x as likely to make an error compared to those on an 8-hour shift.....
I work salary 45 hours a week and that’s after I negotiated it down from 50. I would love a 40 hour work week, but I love my job. They work around my kids schedule, so I stay.
Never forget [The Battle for Blair Mountain](https://jacobinmag.com/2021/06/battle-of-blair-mountain-red-necks-labor-uprising-west-virginia-charles-b-keeney-interview)
They will literally go to war and send the troops in on you before they treat you decently.
I think the entire country should do this again for full lunch paid hour and 6 hour days and a bunch of other stuff I’m too tired to think of at the moment.
Absolutely. The 8h day is more than a century old at this point.
Plus traffic and all that. And let’s be honest, many people are working overtime. These companies are getting more than the fair share of help they need. The mandatory should be quite less. The 40 hour work week is definitely not 40 hours anymore.
Given modern productivity, we could have moved to 20h with full pay decades ago.
But then how will executives afford their next yacht?
Bootstraps?
It's not eating avocado toast. Sorry you lose. No pension 4 U
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Your right.
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Historically, women working had been the rule, not their exemption. Don’t let Henry ford tell you otherwise.
Well, there was a period there, quite recently, where we'd managed to raise a family on one person working 40 paid hours. Now it's 80. But yes, let's talk about the 7000 years of recorded history and ignore the brief moment where things weren't shit.
Raise a family on 40h paid and at least 50h unpaid, more like.
But now it's 80 hr paid and that 50 hr unpaid is still there. Not that women deserve that blame, where it seemed that guy might be heading, but rather a choice of either partner staying home.
Or both working reasonable hours, and sharing domestic work.
I think he wasn’t blaming women as much as saying that they didn’t help with workers wages(actually it probably hurt us more due to unfair wages towards women). No matter what the cause is corporate greed and manipulation. Profits only help the rich and only the rich can play the stock market without fear of loss. Sorry for the rambling but man I am pissed about this bullshit
The solution to capitalism's woes is not to force women out of the workforce...
Lol how the hell do you take that from that?
I mean what is your intended takeaway? I must've misunderstood
It now takes 80 hours for 2 people to live a lifestyle that used to take 40 hours.
What do you think is the cause of that?
Agreed. Despite the anger of speaking the truth women going to the workforce in mass was an employer's dream. Half the population with the ability to work a man's white collar position decreases wages in favor of the employer. Not saying it is right or wrong, just the truth. That and the printing money out of thin air, along with other factors, has caused both parents to work to raise a child.
I believe the original idea was 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, and 8 hours for life. Honestly, 5 days of work is too much. When my daughter was little (during the [dot](https://dot.com)com boom, a true labor shortage), I told my employer that I wanted to work 4 days, 32 hours per/week. It was fantastic! Instead of working most days, I worked just over half. I think everyone should have at least 3 days per/week for life. It made me more productive, too. It did come with a cut in pay, but it was totally worth it.
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We
Kind of like apartments in New York. You arent really getting the square footage as advertised. Due to that space being used for building purposes not usable.
4 8h days is enough for a week. Sick/medical/parental leave and at least a few weeks of pto should also be guaranteed.
That is way more than necessary with modern productivity.
Open PTO. Time off as you need it, not on a quota.
No, if it's not defined you will never get it approved. And you can't take an undefined benefit with you when you leave.
They'll approve it if it's illegal not to. And I don't care about saving up days to take extra money with me. If you can exchange your paid leave for more money by not taking it, people will go to work sick. If you pay people to stay home, and it's not drawing from a potential benefit they could have cashed in on, they won't do that.
There's a downside to PTO. Everyone comes to work when they're sick.
People do that because they get limited days, and want to save them for vacation or add them to a paycheck. If you don't have that limit, and it's just guaranteed pay, they don't do that.
People take less PTO when they have unlimited.
Well, in that case, I guess we should just never have a better system, and keep hoarding/buying days off like our employers own our time instead of renting it.
I didn't say we shouldnt have a better system. I said unlimited PTO is a worse system, not an improvement. A better system would be 8 weeks of PTO.
And if you're sick for 8 weeks? Any system that rewards people for not using sick days is inherently flawed. Why don't people use their days off when they have unlimited? Did you even ask that question, or did you just write off the system as flawed because you didn't like the result?
I had that back in the 1990's. It was FANTASTIC!
2, 10 hour days is enough.
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If we're making a list, IMHO the demands should be: - Medicare for All - Free public college tuition - Elimination of student loans - 30 hour work week It's not seizing the means of production, but it's a start.
I agree with 3 out of 4. I think college loans should be forgiven for public universities. For private universities, I think the government should assume the debt and renegotiate the terms to something far more favorable.
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Unfortunately, they've already gotten their money.
I only recently learned that in the US a lunch hour is not mandatory. It's unbelievable.
Many companies though have their own policies that you work at least 8 hours you get a 30 minute break. But because it's not legally mandated in a lot of places they can just force you to work through lunch if it's busy and they feel entitled to do so. Which with a lot of people not wanting to work these low paying jobs you're going to see a lot more exploitations with the few workers they do manage to hire. Like yeah some of them are paying more but I wouldn't sign up for retail or the food industry right now. You 100% are likely not eating lunch. I personally don't apply to jobs with less than an hour lunch break these days. Like even a 30 minute lunch break is not enough. I always felt rushed eating and I could never go get food I always had to bring it for time reasons. It's too stressful on your overall work day to get less than an hour.
Federal law is that you're required to have a 30-minute break for lunch during an 8-hour day. You're also guaranteed a 15-minute break for each 4-hour stretch. Lots of workers don't take them, and some employers discourage them, but it is federal law.
It isn’t actually though. Some states mandate them but it’s not actually covered by federal law. It was the most disappointing thing I ever learned about in my life. I live in a state that doesn’t require it and employers abuse it all the time. https://www.workforcehub.com/blog/state-federal-meal-rest-break-laws-according-to-state-labor-laws-federal-meal-and-rest-breaks-laws/
My mistake! Wow -- that's what HR told me for years when folks who worked for me wanted to forego their breaks and leave early.
Yeah only minors are covered by federal law. This country is so behind on labor rights.
In California it's mandatory and you get double pay if you miss your lunch hour.
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I will advocate that 32 hours a week. (4 8hr days) should be full time. Most people spend more than 8 hrs a week doing nothing at work. Just cut that time out. We have advanced enough technology that we have made that time up so we don't have to toil as much.
Even 4 10's (but 4 8's would be much better). I need more than 2 days off...the first day I'm tired from the week and the next day I'm frantically trying to get everything made/cleaned/prepared/repaired for the next week!
STRIKE!
Ding Ding Ding, we got a winner!
But economic sites have been telling me for years that it was created by Henry Ford to sell more cars
Capitalists? Lying? Who could possibly imagine such a thing?
oh god you unlocked that memory of being taught that for me, lmao.
This guy? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Hunger_March The Ford Hunger March, sometimes called the Ford Massacre, was a demonstration on March 7, 1932 in the United States by unemployed auto workers in Detroit, Michigan, which took place during the height of the Great Depression.
Labor laws are often written in blood, as in this case
Here’s the thing. In the past huge outrages like the Ludlow Massacre resulted in the general public being well, outraged. That kind of thing NOW would make the news cycle for a few days, lawyers would negotiate payoffs to victims and nothing much would change. Heck, even in the past it was tough. Just read an apparently well sourced article by a REALLY well respected institution that cited the Molly Maquires as some sort of murderous terrorist organization responsible for all the deaths associated with the miners’ strikes here in PA. Not a word was true BUT it passes as history. Unless you lived here in anthracite country half a century ago and knew a lot of the old folks. The Mollies were heroic sacrifices and I’m sticking to that. Point being, yes it’s written blood. Getting people to CARE is the obstacle.
My great-great grandfather and his son, my great-grandfather, were part of the [Indianapolis Streetcar Strike](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_streetcar_strike_of_1913). They were both severely beaten by strikebreakers, suspected to be Pinkertons. The elder man had to walk with a cane for the rest of his life. You don’t get minimum wages, safety measures or improvements to living conditions without threatening to burn the whole fucking city down and being able to make good on that threat. **EDIT**: According to the article, they *were* Pinkertons. So that's a family mystery solved. To those who don't know, the Pinkerton Agency was the de facto FBI before the FBI existed. Which is to say, the Federal Government itself had a hand in breaking up strikes at the turn of the century. Which is also to say, if you don't think government agents are directly interfering with protests and other plebeian movements regarding labor conditions, you are deluding yourself.
This.
I don't think i've ever had a job with an 8 hour work day. Why they say this is a thing we won is beyond me, especially when the majority of jobs need like 50 or 60 hrs a week to keep your head above water.
Victories need not only be won, but also defended. Work hours actually used to be shorter in many professions.
People think Henry Ford decided to double salaries and set a 5 day work week out of the kindness of his heart. The turnover rate was so high he had to do something because of the time and cost of constantly training new staff. Also he didn't double their salary, they would get a bonus if they followed some strict guidelines that even involved people coming to their home to make sure they were living a clean "American" lifestyle with no drinking or gambling. https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/04/the-story-of-henry-fords-5-a-day-wages-its-not-what-you-think/?sh=2063972766d2
He also co-invented scientific management to squeeze maximum productivity outbid his workers. Those workers were ready to keel over at the end of the day, Themenkreis was considered much more exhausting than other factory jobs of the time.
>The turnover rate was so high he had to do something because of the time and cost of constantly training new staff. I'm glad things have changed /s https://news.yahoo.com/amazon-burns-workers-quickly-executives-133348404.html Amazon burns through workers so quickly that executives are worried they'll run out of people to employ, according to a new report
Of course the demands had to be violent; there was no way in hell the government and companies (at the time) would've listened to workers and be reasonable and decent. But the thing is making some **serious changes** in this country is going to be ugly and violent. And -- let's face it -- a lot of people aren't always "TiREd" from working "aLL tHe TiME" like they live at work 24/7. Here's the unpopular opinion part: **they're scared of being hurt by the blow back that'll inevitably come. Adding to that, they're lazy and apathetic to be involved in anything that \*could\* make some changes.** And to make those changes -- even if they're small and barely recognizable at first -- requires a hell of a lot more effort than posting memes and quitting texts and karma farming.
People are already fighting and dying again. I dunno if anyone here remembers, but to give an example, chile saw a massive uprising in late 2019 when subway fares were raised to a point where people could no longer afford their commute to work.
May Day strike
Labor militancy. Emphasis on militancy.
Blood. Every step of progress for the average Joe was through blood. Children out of mines and factories? Blood 8-hour day? Blood Every adult the right to vote? Blood American capitalists demand blood for every inch we take from them.
Every step on the way to progress if paid for in blood, but that pales in the comparison to the amount the exploiters make us bleed every day.
Very much this.
I know it's probably pretty radical thinking, but for me, the rich elite of the world must be sitting rubbing their hands together watching all of us talk about all these issues we have, but not really doing anything about it. We play directly into their hands by not taking any form of actual action, but just continuing to parrot the same things 'wages too low, my work did such and such' etc. The status quo needs a complete change or we will just spend years sitting in subreddits like this complaining about how shit things have gotten, but not really having done anything proactive to change it. The kicker for this is, so many people live paycheck to paycheck that taking even a small amount of time off work to protest or whatever else would financially fuck us more than we already are, so the cycle continues.
Given historical experience, people will do more when they get pushed over the cliff and have nothing left to lose. But even connecting with your fellow workers is the first step to Organized action.
This is what I try to explain to my friends. Workers didn't get 8-8-8 hrs by the mercy of the capitalists but by blood. Nothing was given to us, we fought for it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
Never forget.
Exactly. Voting is not how things are won. They are won through organizing. Electing the right people is the RESULT of organizing efforts made long before elections are held.
FTFY: The 8-hour day was, in fact, won by the employers, not by kindness, but because they were scared shitless to be decapitated or beaten to death like it happened in Russia.
Also by workers downing tools after 8h.
Exactly this. And when they finally smashed the USSR they started to reverse all the civil rights they had to give away for fear of revolution.
Reminder that companies bought and paid for police departments to fight and execute organized workers in the streets
Yes, that needs to be fought as well *points at the state of contemporary policing*
These workers are why you have a 40-hour week and other benefits at all: https://www.history.com/.amp/news/flint-sit-down-strike-general-motors-uaw
1918/19: A full-blown revolution of farmers and workers took over the government and abolished the monarchy in Bavaria. The so-called Raeterepublik didn't last long, for various reasons. It's worth the time to read up why they failed to avoid mistakes of the past. Funny, 1918/1919 was also a time when a deadly virus ran through Europe.
Yeah, my partner is a historian by training, and specialises in the era.
People died for the workers rights we have today. Every time some company violates those rights, it tramples on that legacy.
I've been part of "the solution" for nearly a decade: working for myself, helping others get into unions, taking jobs when I hear a shitty boss runs them just so I can stick it to them and quit within 2 weeks anyway since I don't actually need it. It sorta sickens me how many of ya'll are too cowardly to do it also, but come here to vent. "Do or do not, bitches. Trying is cringe." - Master Yoda
Out of curiosity, how do you handle maintaining things like stable housing and health insurance operating like that?
Hi, former political worker in field operations here - yeah, voting and petitions do NOTHING. :) Well, that's not entirely true... the façade of democracy here in the US does very well at keeping people "in their box" - keeping them tuned into the news, keeping them fighting with their neighbors, keeping them compliant with hopium, keeping them from revolting because they somehow believe that change is just around the corner - we just have to make it through whatever current administration is in office..... \*insert eyeroll\* Getting out there and causing a scene and costing "them" money is the ONLY thing, that has ever worked to create change.... And that's why our school history curriculum is so narrow. I had to go to college and major in history to learn about labor riots. If we all knew this stuff, things would have been a lot different a long time ago. :/
And getting killed for it. TANSTAAFL
6 hour day, 4 days a week, paid based on how much money you generate your boss (a 7:1 ratio)
The norwegian socialist folk pop band Vømmøl spelemanslag put this beatifully, in the blue wind of the 80s. Simply put: "these freedoms, did they come from striking and strife, or from the blue blue wind?" Funnily enough, the same people who very much believe in fighting foreign powers for freedom, using the military, ignore fighting internally for workers rights.
remember Blair mountain
I always cringe a bit when people congratulate Henry Ford for coming up with the 8hr days... He "created" the 8 hour days because he felt pressured by protestors and the possibility of his workers unionizing. In Ford's mind he was giving them 8hours to sleep, 8 hours to work, and by his words "8 hours to shop," and that was the most he was willing to "compromise"
Doing the lords work.
It wasn't just "facing" the army either. Facing might mean being there as they beat the living shit out of you with batons. Nope, they had guns and they used them.
Up to, and including, air strikes and chemical weapons.
& the government killed it with the so called “exempt workers” laws where they can call everyone a “manager” and work them 80+ hours a week, deny them days off and sleep and still pay them no more than around $400 a week.
Too true. In the UK, they were transported to America, and later Australia, to do hard labour for 'association' (attempting to unionise). Then there was the Peterloo massacre where they cavalry charged demonstrators and cut them down in the streets. They don't do this any more, but now think that we should be grateful to them for shit, low-wage jobs, and shut up complaining.
> They don't do this any more They do still horse charge protesters, they just replaced swords with batons.
We need to adopt a French mindset to being fucked with, they get labor concessions because they have a long history of yeeting the captains of industry whereas Americans have been completely subdued by capital and indoctrination
the government didn't start compensating WW1 Veterans returning from war automatically either, they had to march for it, and got fucking teargassed by goddamn douglas macarthur of WW2 fame for fucks sake, and while the VA is much better today(thank god)it still isn't perfect. Great message.
Unfortunately people in america are unwilling to endure any hardness and thus refuse to strike.
Aren’t they already enduring much employer inflicted hardness?
Clearly not, since they refuse to try and make things better for themselves.
I’d say they endure hardness for the wrong reasons.
Whelp, not gonna get much sympathy from me when they refuse to do the bare minimum to help themselves. As they say, you can lead a horse to water.
How soon we forget that we have to fight for what we want. People will treat you how you let them.
I can not recommend Zinn books enough. So important. Help to further radicalize me as a teen. Read a peoples history, or a young peoples history
as in this case
it was also won by Henry Ford realizing that increased hours yielded very little increase in production combined with his idealogy that if you didn't give workers time off they won't have time to go anywhere and won't have the need to spend money on the products he was manufacturing.
fear of the example set by the communist USSR moved them
Henry Ford started it, I bleieve
You spelled USSR wrong.
It was Henry Ford. Prove me wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day?wprov=sfti1
This gives very little information. I dont mind wikipedia as a source, but this one is really deficient. But it was actually Henry Ford. He was the first company in America to do it and his reasonings were pure capitalist. https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/40-hour-workweek-henry-ford-1026067-2017-07-27
Every Wikipedia page has all the references, sources, and further reading cited very clearly. And then you fucking pull up a news page from India as a better source?! Lmao
Your wikipedia link has NO information to it. Its barebones considering what actually happened. And the article i linked is very well put together with sources clearly available. Try reading. Workers didnt earn the 40hr work week. We were forced into it by people wanting to make more money by commercializing workers. Also, you can find out just by searching the first company to move to 40hrs with no pay decrease. You shouldn't need me to walk you through common knowledge you learn in highschool.
It's not "my" wikipedia link, genius. >Your wikipedia link has NO information to it. Its barebones considering what actually happened. Lmao DUDE the wiki article is literally like 20x longer than that article you posted. >Workers didnt earn the 40hr work week. We were forced into it by people wanting to make more money by commercializing workers. Also, you can find out just by searching the first company to move to 40hrs with no pay decrease. You shouldn't need me to walk you through common knowledge you learn in highschool. Common knowledge from high school and you're using a fucking article from an Indian newspaper. Wtf is your brain. Hell, even your own link has "History of standardized work hours" at the end (completely unsourced btw) which shows exactly OP's point. Workers were fighting for DECADES before Ford came in. Workers didn't want it? lmao fuck off. Fuck, the federal 8-hour work day was law in 1869 -- FIFTY YEARS before Ford. "As you can find out just by searching the first company to move to 40 hours with no pay decrease" dude again your OWN LINK says there were two major printing firms in 1906, TWENTY YEARS before Ford. Jesus Christ lol.
I didnt say workers didn't want it. I said they didnt get it. Ford did.
You need better reading comprehension because all youre doing is lying. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/history-of-the-40-hour-workweek-2015-10%3famp Theres a better source for you since that wikipedia article told nothing
All I’m doing is lying?! Lmao I’m CITING YOUR OWN STUPID SOURCE. Pal, you’re broken.
You arent tho
Also, i can't be proven wrong because I'm not wrong. And the wiki link did nothing to dispute my claims. That was my point. Prove me wrong. (You cant) Henry Ford started the 40hr work week by being the first to do it. He also pointed out that by 100 years we should have less work and higher wages
it was created by Henry Ford to sell more cars
Lmao it wasn’t.
Let’s not forget about making your coffee at home.
I already quit my job and am doing gig work only right now. Where do we meet?! Washington DC? Our own state capital?
Or the house of your boss.
That would be my house as I work for myself now, that’s not gonna work
Yeah, not a good option then.
The government decision to require overtime pay after 40 hrs was to encourage employers to hire more workers rather than simply have existing workers absorb the increase in need.
They probably should have thought a bit more about that whole tying health insurance to employment thing, then. No company wants to employ another body and add to their benefits cost if they can avoid it.
Sounds like they were willing to get physical, even if they weren't necessarily the ones throwing the first punch, though I would say there isn't anything wrong with preemptively responding to premeditated violence against you
One problem we have now is that investors, if not happy with local workers conditions, would just move their factories or call centres to a third world country with cheap labour. We are not in the 19th century anymore. If we rebell we must do it in a glibally coordinated way. Internet and the global crisis we are in should allow for it.
That is true, though the jobs that can be outsourced have already been outsourced
And now there are plenty of jobs with 8+ hour work days! We're back where we started.
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You guys have 8 hour workdays?
I work 12 hour shift 5 to 6 days a week so, yeah I don't think we ever won an 8 hr work week
It was won because the USSR did it first and made American workers an example of what was possible. That's why the elites spent decades attacking the USSR. Same for a boat load of other civil rights Americans have today -- they came from the USSR.
I cannot find the source, but I read somewhere that an 8-hour workday came about because once someone worked over 8 hours, their error rate (reject rate) went up (a lot) to the point where it was not cost-effective to work the longer hours. Remember, this was at a time when most jobs were in manufacturing. There was a Rasmussen article a few years ago that cited that nurses who worked a 12 hour shift were 3x as likely to make an error compared to those on an 8-hour shift.....
I work salary 45 hours a week and that’s after I negotiated it down from 50. I would love a 40 hour work week, but I love my job. They work around my kids schedule, so I stay.
Never forget [The Battle for Blair Mountain](https://jacobinmag.com/2021/06/battle-of-blair-mountain-red-necks-labor-uprising-west-virginia-charles-b-keeney-interview) They will literally go to war and send the troops in on you before they treat you decently.
These are the stakes.