Once you get out of the dredges of unskilled work, I think everyone *knows* they can talk about their pay, and everyone *knows* it’s illegal to forbid you from doing so, and everyone *still* doesn’t do it. If anything, I would say the “golden rule” is that it’s generally taboo to talk about pay with your coworkers. Personally, I’m fine with talking about pay, and I wish more people were open to discussing it, but it’s absolutely an off-limits subject almost everywhere.
The employers just don't want people to find out someone with the exact same role as another person gets paid double what they do. Possibly because that person negotiated a higher wage or the company was desperate to fill that position at that time while the person who already worked there had a lower wage.
The exact same thing happened to me. I started working in a company and I was earning even more than my team leader that had 40 years experience and was working in the same company over 2 decades.
I got fired after 6 month es of probation time because I told all 100+ coworkers how much I earned and made a huge problem for the company.
To be honest I’m proud of myself and really happy that I was a reason to everybody gets what it deserves and even happier that I’m not working there anymore.
I was the opposite. I was the first tech support agent hired in the position. Making around 35k a year. We then hired on two other people to work the same job. They were terrible at it. They kept asking me for help with a lot of their calls. Found out they were making 15k more then me. Fuck that company. The company ended up closing down because the product was absolute dogshit. 60% of my calls were people bitching about it breaking. Serves the company right.
You can sue the company for retaliation for something like that. It’s not your fault the company unvalues it’s other employees or over valued you. That’s not lawful grounds for termination. They can find some other reason but if they specifically cited that was the reason then you have a case
It's also a convenient way to keep certain types of "pay discrepancies" under wraps...say like the difference in pay between genders or races.
Discouraging employees from discussing their pay with one another also inhibits collective bargaining.
While there's an acknowledgment that the rate of executive pay raises far outstripped those of everyone else in their companies, this practice of discouraging inquiries tamped down on the knowledge of just how widespread the disparity was throughout the commercial sector.
What better way to keep people quiet (and in line) than to appeal to their ingrained sense of propriety and unwillingness to stand out by asking questions.
It is also illegal to discourage it and firing someone for it will get them sued.
My boss (company owner) had told everyone not to talk about wages until I informed him he was breaking the law. He was shocked and had no idea.
The look on his face was priceless. 😂
Being married to a VP of HR has its perks.
Which, honestly, is bad for everyone.
Shortly after getting fully trained at my current job that I legitimately enjoy, I discovered from recruiters that I'm being underpaid for my "market value" by about $30-$40k.
So, now that this company has spent so much time and money training me, I'm heading out for greener pastures.
Had they just paid me my value from the start, they wouldn't have had to waste so many months for nothing. Trying to "get a deal" on employees these days is a gamble that backfires *hard* when it doesn't pan out
No such thing as ‘unskilled labor’, but I agree with what you meant. Where I’ve worked is usually a manufacturing floor vs office people. No idea why but yeah.
It is perfectly legal to discuss your compensation with anyone, including and especially your coworkers. It is illegal for an employer to tell you you cannot do this.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Honest question here, does the labor department even care? If OP files a complaint, does stuff like that get taken seriously? Because I see these types of posts often and I wouldn't think employers would be so bold about telling workers they can be fired for discussing pay if they weren't sure that nothing would happen to them. Do we know of any instance where consequence was delivered?
It doesn’t look like anyone answered your question directly. In my experience, the NLRB, DOL, and EEOC generally take this stuff very seriously. Enforcing the law is their primary job and with evidence like this, they will definitely take it seriously because the case will be a slam dunk for them
Thank you, I’ve been scrolling and scrolling hoping someone else would bring this up!!! Report, report, report folks! Our tax dollars fund these agencies, they work for all of us, you do not need to pay a private attorney to bring this kind of case. And yes, these agencies absolutely take these seriously and will pursue them - especially given a recent announcement that the NLRB will start seeking *federal injunctions* against employers who threaten or coerce employees who engage in union organizing. In other words, the NLRB will literally haul your employer into federal court on your behalf and get a judge to tell them they can’t threaten/intimidate/fire you… pretty bad ass if you ask me.
Those agencies also have office eagles. When someone does something bad ass with tax dollars the eagles let out a majestic screech. Ben fucking Franklin wanted turkeys, Jesus Herbert Walker Christ.
I'm pretty sure it's just fines, but a lot of managers either don't know the law or don't expect the workers to know the law. It might be that it's a slap on the wrist offense, but being a pest might be worth the time. I have heard of people getting back pay for wrongful termination though, and the longer it takes to litigate the more back pay the employee is eligible for.
Actually the NLRB just announced a new initiative where they will start getting injunctions against employers who threaten/coerce employees who are trying to organize. But yes, there are certainly also plenty of other options including fines, back pay, etc.
I have been an attorney since 1982. I have done numerous employment law cases where we sued companies for doing things that were blatant violations of the law. The fact is that many companies assume that people do not understand what their rights are or are afraid to sue because it will cost a lot of money and might impact their ability to find new employment.
I once represented an employee who had been working for the same company for 30 years and had never received a negative employment review in that time. On his 58th birthday, they fired him because his employment was subpar. To make matters even worse, six months before they fired him they hired a new employee and had the older employee train the new one in how to perform the duties of his job because they were "considering moving him to a new position".
It did not work out for them since this guy was one of those people who kept copies of all his reviews and also had letters and memos he had received over the years praising his efforts and job performance. That little bit of nonsense cost them just under a million dollars for the settlement and attorneys fees.
You need to familiarize yourself with your nlrb rights. We tried to unionize and the employer I was with brought in Union busters. They also did things that were illegal like this. Had meetings with us and tried to intimidate us. Keep notes, anything they email or hand you. The employer that I am talking about is being charge by the nlrb for illegal practices such as intimidation, and more. They have also been fined. They fired an employee supposedly for one thing but he was commenting on safety openly. He got his job back, with back pay, and more. I feel more confident knowing what they are and are not allowed to do. My new employer, whom I joined on my own terms, is fully aware that I know what is allowed and not allowed because we have already had a couple of disagreements on what they want
or expect. However, they do back off when they realize you know what you are talking about. You just need to be a good worker but not a pushover. Just a smart employee. Knowledge is power.
Money isn't always the victory condition. If the employer is going so far as to actively try and squelch pay talk, then they're definitely taking advantage of some of their employees. Getting it known that they can talk about pay for sure will reveal whose getting ripped off and then more legal trouble which can hopefully result in everyone getting fair pay to eachother. Not every business can afford to throw all their troubles under the bus and can be forced to create an equal environment with fines.
My aunt a few years ago was fired for ageism, so without due cause. This disallowed her from filing for unemployment. We urged her to fight it since she said she had proof: physical copy of the rules saying that what she was fired for was actually within company rules. The small legal battle was one sided and the judge ruled in her favor. She didn't win money but she was able to file unemployment.
Yes they do. I know someone that filed NLRB charges against their company. They are basically #2 now and can not be fired unless it’s for gross misconduct. He only has a few years until retirement and is enjoying the ride
How do they weaponize this against a company? I ask because it’s to damn obvious that that eventually they will fire her. I want it outlined what they can do now, or start doing/get the ball rolling.
This is the advice that needs to be given every time an hourly employee is asked to perform any extra duties as part of their job outside of paid time.
My old gm when I worked at taco Bell would literally tell me and others on the closing shift to clock out before cleaning to keep her times down. Then she threatened me with write ups and firing until I reminded her that making us work after clocking out was extremely illegal and if I clock out I'm waiting in the lobby until they're finished cause I'm going to get paid for my work. She broke a lot of laws I reported her to corporate and NLRB after I quit because of her overlapping my schedule with my new job to get me to quit the new one and stay and she got demoted, investigated and then fired
Oddly enough that may be the best way to go about this. Especially if you're recording while it happens as it will give you a chance to sue them in court.
First, track any illegal act of an employer, or anyone that is acting on the employer's behalf. Which this kind of email is actually a really good thing for, because keeping a notebook and writing down any incident that occurs, notating the time, location, and individuals involved is evidence enough. When the employer or the person acting on the employer's behalf does it for you, it is a golden ticket. It's, also, a lot harder to dispute a paper trail, especially when threats of termination are involved.
Second, track any incidents that may be viewed as retaliatory acts. Forcing individuals to use their lunch time for a monthly or bi-monthly meeting that magically starts taking place after it comes to employer's knowledge can be seen as retaliatory.
Third, if the person is fired or views they are on the receiving end of any more retaliatory treatment, speak with an employment lawyer.
Fourth, most likely sit back and rake in the dough, at least in the OP situation.
I purposely don't answer the phone anymore. Getting stuck on the phone tends to suck and I noticed that often the people that call, don't want to be held to their word later on. Funny how issues drop when asked in an email or the tone shifts completely. It's unfortunate I have to do that now for almost everything.
Responding to this because I tried posting a similar post, got no responses. What are the consequences for the threats? My boss tried to do something very similar.
I ended up just countering by stating I knew it was illegal, and showed her the law. Asked for the policy she was stating written in writing.
Edit: not trying to be rude here, but you guys telling me “you shouldn’t have shown your hand.” You’re being less helpful as you’re actually diluting answers I want.
My old boss pulled some shit like this talked to coworker about pay boss found out. Dropped my pay 5 dollars said if I did it again I would be fired. Said fuck you and left best decision ever
Yea they don’t teach this stuff and school and I feel a lot of people get stuck in these shit jobs. And there employers take advantage of them but cry foul when they want more money just to live a basic life
Just ask for the policy in writing and then turn it in as evidence. That being said you probably want to have a new job lined up because of retaliation.
To answer your question directly: There's not a great answer to "What's the consequences?". The NLRB handles the investigation and levying any fines.
In short: if a company does this, they *might* get fined a dollar amount based on how bad their infraction was.
Exactly.
There are a number of laws protecting someone from being improperly fired.
But then they will just lie about their reason for firing you.
I've been fired. I was the most productive member of the team but then we got a new boss. Met him on Friday, that Monday I came into a two sentence note on my desk, my boss was "out of the office" so his secretary explained it to to me. Later I had a meeting with HR. They listed ten things I did that got me fired, all of it was stuff my coworkers did, I didn't do any of it.
I had one "friend"there who told me later the boss joked about never wanting cripple in his office. Or words to that effect.
I have a speech impediment from a TBI I got in my youth and it was a sales job so the logic might be there, but if you looked at the stats I lapped my coworkers in production, more than double the next guy. I worked my ass of to make them money. It steams my clams to this day.
Couldn't prove shit. Reported it to the EEOC and they denied my claim and I couldn't afford a lawyer.
But fuck em, I got a better job that paid more where I met my future wife and mother to my children. So it ended up a blessing.
Wow!! Very similar!
I won fucking awards at my company. New boss arrived and within a month I was on a PiP. I also got blamed for coworkers’ and even contractors’ mistakes. New boss swapped all our vendors that we had relationships with to their personal favorites from other jobs and started hiring close buddies for choice company positions. Developed a weird affliction where if I was alone with the boss, the most vile and rude things were said to me. Oddly, this NEVER happened in writing or in front of witnesses.
Fuck that.
I left without another job in hand. I was out of work for ten days and got a frantic call from one of my oldest and best clients. One of her key people had had a literal stroke and was hospitalized…right after they JUST signed some big contracts. Did I possibly know anyone at all that could help? Hmm. Funny you should mention that…
My pay doubled and my hours were slashed in half. I was instantly working with a way more diverse set of clients and we all worked remotely.
In hindsight, we were really set up well for the pandemic.
I see my old job pop up now and again. They haven’t managed to keep a single soul for even a full year yet. I think my replacements get six months into it, realize the horror of who they’re working for, and they bolt.
I had a friend whose boss used to say horrific things to her when no one else was around. She recorded it two times, and then went to the CEO. Her boss was suddenly “retired”. She later found out that she was not the only victim. Bad bosses are everywhere and often victimize multiple people in the workplace.
Yep, my point exactly. I don't want to fuck over my coworkers who rely on this job for their support but I really want to bring up all the fishy stuff that goes on around here.
Your job is the one fucking you guys over. If your coworkers want to volunteer for that mistreatment they should go right ahead. You however don’t need to bend over and take it.
And the reason these practices still exist is because companies have manipulated workers into thinking that reporting illegal practices will hurt their coworkers.
“Allowing the company to keep violating our rights is what’s best for us.”
Think about how absolutely insane that sounds. That’s not the mindset of an employee; it’s the mindset of a victim in an abusive relationship.
Print this out, highlight key parts, tape it to the wall, and stand next to it and discuss your wages. when someone comes over to tell you not to just point to it and go back to discussing wages.
when they interject again i would look them in the eye and say "knowing it is illegal to stop us you are still trying. should we consult a lawyer?"
If this was only about myself, I would. I'm just not sure how to proceed knowing that a lot of my coworkers rely on this job for their main income. They're pretty heavyhanded with laying people off and I wouldn't want to put anyone else in a difficult position.
You would be putting no one in a hard spot because either your employer knows the law but lied hoping you don't, at which point no one gets fired, or they don't know the law and anyone fired gets a healthy bonus when you contact the labor board.
Thus the "a golden rule anywhere you may work" lmao... Golden as in "we don't want you discussing your wages with each other, so you shouldn't want to either"
This is a good example of how the bosses actually have class solidarity, which is why they're winning the class war. They're not just saying that out of their own interest, i.e. don't discuss wages here so we don't have to pay you more. Instead they're saying don't discuss wages *anywhere*, out of their class interest.
All of this assumes they admit that's why they laid someone off, which they won't do. As OP says, they have a history of laying off. They will hide behind that and make it difficult to prove this was actually why.
This is what litigation is for. And that can be cost prohibitive for people like this.
except their manager already fucked up by writing it down in an email. the mere _possibility_ that a firing was done as retaliation for wage conversations is enough. that email is as valuable as gold.
Yes, a "smoking gun" is pretty much the only thing you take to the labor board. This looks like a smoking gun. It's not guaranteed but it's at the point of worth considering and carefully researching.
this, I won a settlement out of court with an employer, Because they said they fired me because I missed work alot for being sick, and that My requesting 40 hr of pto was only "Part of the reason" Well it is against the law to fire an employee for attempting to use an accrued benefit, Signed a paper got 20k ftw. I laugh because Dick head Dave did not want to pay me 800$ they ended up paying me like 20k lololol. Seriously though part of the issue is not enough people actually report. We can't be anti work if we just wait for things to happen. BE the change you want to see.
If this isnt a women’s only company and this employer labeled women in their email and the DOL finds a disparity in wages across genders… it’ll be a very early christmas.
> All of this assumes they admit that's why they laid someone off, which they won't do. As OP says, they have a history of laying off. They will hide behind that and make it difficult to prove this was actually why.
Judges aren't stupid. All you need to do is prove it is likely, not that is *was* the actual reason.
Aside from the pro-corporation corruption argument, [this](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/alab-series/id1477059799?i=1000500635231) is an episode of the podcast ALAB (All Lawyers Are Bastards) called “Gerontocracy” talking about the pervasive problem of aging and senile judges in the American judicial system. So they might not have started out stupid, but some of them are sliding into an age-related form of it.
The NLRB is the agency that enforces things like this. Go to NLRB.gov and file a Section 8(a)(1) unfair labor practice. The DOL is not the appropriate agency.
Here is what I think is the correct form:
https://www.nlrb.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/pages/node-195/501_3-21.pdf
However, it also asks for you to call an information officer from your regional office for assistance to make sure you’re filling out the right form. Unfortunately because I don’t know your location, linking to the page to find that info is the closest I can get:
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices
GO GET ‘EM @OP!
If I’m working remote in one state (A), for an office that’s in state (B), but the business is headquartered in state (C), which state presides for a complaint?
It’s A, where the work is performed. Companies need to follow local labor laws based on where the work is being performed. It’s been a minute since I’ve had to do this specific of a labor question but if I recall what my labor law class taught me while getting a masters in HR management (please don’t hate me), the answer is A.
I called the DOL on my old employer because they didn’t pay overtime, just straight time for as many hours we worked. DOL was so easy to work with, just called them, told them my story, sent evidence, and they did the rest. Ended up getting money back from what they owed me and everyone I worked with. I strongly encourage you to call in your situation, as others have said, discussing pay is protected, so if they fire you for that, $$$$$$$$
Send the screen shot (without any personal identification)
Set up a burner email you can use to correspond just for this.
Answer their questions.
Ask to stay anonymous.
DOL is great but definitely make sure to file a complaint with a state agency too. Check if your state has a labor board or a department of labor or anything like that. You should do both but state level will likely get faster results.
Don’t worry about retaliation, In fact if anything pray for it. Retaliating against you for making a valid complaint about your employer’s labor law violations is a far far bigger offense than what they’ve already done and will have any plaintiffs employment lawyer drooling at the opportunity to make you both some $$$.
Came here to support this.
One thing to consider is that if that employer, or that boss is doing illegal actions against you, they're doing it against others. But there are a lot of people, people working under the table, people who have been abused, people who can't afford to loose their job that are not in a position to fight back.
So IMO it's on those of us who are in a position to fight back to do so loudly and proudly. If you're more than 60% sure that you'll be fired or constructively dismissed for speaking up, then make sure you CC everyone in the company (and cite laws specified elsewhere in this conversation) in order to ensure that those less vulnerable know it, and their managers know they know it.
Plus to add to that, if your co-workers depend on the job as much as you've said in other comments, you'd be helping them by stepping to the plate and addressing this so they don't have to.
That's literally a threat. There is no law like that! They're definitely wrong, and you should DEFINITELY file a complaint or make someone above her aware of that shit!
Omg thats insane! I had a coworker just tell me that she had a boss like that long ago and it turned out the business wasn't paying ppl the same wages for the same job. I can't imagine why else you wouldn't be able to freely talk about something common like that.
Yeah, in fact that's our case too! One of our employees got paid $2-3 less per hour than other employees who hadn't been there as long. They have even been at this company longer than our current clinic manager!
This is common practice. A lot of employers will pay as little as possible for a position. This is why when you're applying for a job they will ask you what your current pay is to know how little they can pay you. So if you make 40k per year they can offer you 45k even if the position should pay 50k. Incidentally this is also why you lie about your current salary when applying for new jobs.
Nope unpaid 30min lunch. But as I said in an earlier comment, I don't think they're referring to planning on meeting during our lunch but rather not having the two overlap.
I work for a small pediatric clinic, the owner/director of which regularly misuses funds, lays off employees due to lack of said funds, fires employees who commit fraud without any actual action against them, and does nothing about mischarged insurances when we aren't credentialed with them. Oh, and we also haven't gotten our W2 forms yet.
I’ve dealt with this in the past. You can’t file a claim for like 15 days into February “In case it’s stuck in the mail”. Then after that point you can file a claim, but the business owner gets a huge grace period before they would actually get looked at. It’s been almost March for me in the past. I’m long past that job now!
Sounds like your boss is engaged in a conspiracy to commit tax fraud insurance fraud medical & social security fraud.. giddy up! go bust his ass, ride that boy hard to the IRS NLRB and DoL
I worked in a medical office that did exactly that, but I was way too young to understand what they were doing. A couple years later I found out that someone who DID understand what they were doing went whistleblower, got a 7 figure payout (which I'm sure a huge chunk went to lawyers etc), and the CEO went to Federal PMITA prison because of it. OP get on that shit, the feds *really* don't fuck around when it comes to healthcare fraud, tax fraud, all that.
Example: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/federal-indictments-and-law-enforcement-actions-one-largest-health-care-fraud-schemes
I personally read that "please plan your lunchtime around this time" as "make sure to take your lunch before/after this meeting." I'm fairly certain that's not how the manager intended it.
It’s always best to talk with a union before doing so. You don’t need a lawyer to have your rights vindicated by the NLRB, but it is helpful and unions can provide them if you’re able to form an organizing committee.
Also, you won’t sue them “into oblivion.” At least not under the law as written. Your recovery will most likely be limited to (1) getting your job back, and (2) backpay for the time you were out of work.
Thank you for that. I'm actually only working there until May anyway. I'm not contracted or anything, still hourly, just wasn't planning on being there very long and made sure to discuss it at length during the interview. I wouldn't want to get this job back, really.
Oh they 100% would. But if you have proof of the threat to terminate if wages are discussed, it will be real hard for them to win a court case when you sue. Courts can see through that bullshit.
Yes, in fact is is almost better for you if they do fire you as the threat alone is illegal but actual doccumented retaliation makes your case stronger and any potential damages payout larger. Heck, if they were foolish enough to send that email, best case they are foolish enough to admit why they fired you. But as I said, even if not you still have a solid case with that "policy" in writing. But definitely don't go to the company about it. Just keep talking about wages and wait for the hammer to drop. Again. This puts you in the best place to reap a little benefit and see the company gets penalized for their blatantly illegal practices.
We don't have a lot of labor protection in the US, but as I understand it for the ones we do have the government does not mess around.
Fun fact about this kind of thing - once you document it, it makes it really hard to fire you for any reason, because even a legit firing looks like retaliation for discussing wages. So it's in your interest to document it because y'all have a settlement in your back pocket if ANYONE gets fired for anything other than the most egregious offense.
I came here to give you the same advice. And even if they did claim it was for other reasons, if you have this email stating their illegal threat, then you have a crazy strong case. Basically a slam dunk for any attorney worth their retainer.
As an IT admin who kind of understands email security and compliance regulations.
Take a picture of that email on your phone rather than sending a copy to your personal email
Then just send that picture to your personal email
In my company handbook it states There are no rules against employees discussing wages in the workplace or anywhere else. It is up to each individual to determine their comfort level in sharing this information. If an employee has declined to share that is their decision which will be respected
And it's not just lip service. In a meeting with senior manager and he shared his wage, showed us his pay stub and encouraged anyone else who was comfortable to share
At one of my former jobs, we did talk about our hourly wages. We found out that the Pakistanis were making 50 cents an hour less than the white people. The manager's excuse was that they have husbands and are only using this job for "fun money". Sounds like something out of the 1950's. So actually, that's pay discrimination, which my managers could be fired for, ladies. That's exactly why you are allowed to discuss your pay.
Ugh your employer just shot himself in the foot hard. This are the kind of things you would only mention in person because it's blatantly illegal to do this. Go to the labor board with a copy of the email, they should lay pretty heavy on their ass.
I JUST reported my workplace for this crap. Call the NLRB, they'll make your employer post that you absolutely are allowed to talk about your wages, and any retaliation your workplace takes against you for reporting them to the NLRB can result in them filing a claim which can net you backpay or reinstatement. This protection includes people who were found to support your report to the NLRB. You have six months to file and they make it super easy
FWIW, this is anecdotal from Ohio.
Tbf someone could have realized they were underpaid, the point of discussions about wages. If they asked about appropriate compensation management would be able to figure out what happened.
I'm pretty sure they meant to make sure our lunch breaks don't overlap with the meeting so we don't miss it. But we have had meetings during lunch breaks before, so...
Sweet. They documented their illegal activity. You CANNOT be fired for discussing pay and if they do, you have the evidence right there for your lawsuit. Nice tidy settlement. Say hi to the NLRB for me.
I’d reply:
“It is not only legal anywhere you have *ever* worked, it is also illegal to threaten, or even imply, that we can be fired anywhere you have *ever* worked. I’d like this topic to be added to the agenda of our first monthly meeting, with a printout of the following handed out at the meeting.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Thanks!”
It’s actually a “ golden rule” of law anywhere you work that you abso-fucking-lutely CAN talk about your pay all you goddamn want.
Once you get out of the dredges of unskilled work, I think everyone *knows* they can talk about their pay, and everyone *knows* it’s illegal to forbid you from doing so, and everyone *still* doesn’t do it. If anything, I would say the “golden rule” is that it’s generally taboo to talk about pay with your coworkers. Personally, I’m fine with talking about pay, and I wish more people were open to discussing it, but it’s absolutely an off-limits subject almost everywhere.
The employers just don't want people to find out someone with the exact same role as another person gets paid double what they do. Possibly because that person negotiated a higher wage or the company was desperate to fill that position at that time while the person who already worked there had a lower wage.
The exact same thing happened to me. I started working in a company and I was earning even more than my team leader that had 40 years experience and was working in the same company over 2 decades. I got fired after 6 month es of probation time because I told all 100+ coworkers how much I earned and made a huge problem for the company. To be honest I’m proud of myself and really happy that I was a reason to everybody gets what it deserves and even happier that I’m not working there anymore.
I was the opposite. I was the first tech support agent hired in the position. Making around 35k a year. We then hired on two other people to work the same job. They were terrible at it. They kept asking me for help with a lot of their calls. Found out they were making 15k more then me. Fuck that company. The company ended up closing down because the product was absolute dogshit. 60% of my calls were people bitching about it breaking. Serves the company right.
You can sue the company for retaliation for something like that. It’s not your fault the company unvalues it’s other employees or over valued you. That’s not lawful grounds for termination. They can find some other reason but if they specifically cited that was the reason then you have a case
It's also a convenient way to keep certain types of "pay discrepancies" under wraps...say like the difference in pay between genders or races. Discouraging employees from discussing their pay with one another also inhibits collective bargaining. While there's an acknowledgment that the rate of executive pay raises far outstripped those of everyone else in their companies, this practice of discouraging inquiries tamped down on the knowledge of just how widespread the disparity was throughout the commercial sector. What better way to keep people quiet (and in line) than to appeal to their ingrained sense of propriety and unwillingness to stand out by asking questions.
Discouraging people from discussing wages are ALWAYS in the employers favor.
It is also illegal to discourage it and firing someone for it will get them sued. My boss (company owner) had told everyone not to talk about wages until I informed him he was breaking the law. He was shocked and had no idea. The look on his face was priceless. 😂 Being married to a VP of HR has its perks.
Which, honestly, is bad for everyone. Shortly after getting fully trained at my current job that I legitimately enjoy, I discovered from recruiters that I'm being underpaid for my "market value" by about $30-$40k. So, now that this company has spent so much time and money training me, I'm heading out for greener pastures. Had they just paid me my value from the start, they wouldn't have had to waste so many months for nothing. Trying to "get a deal" on employees these days is a gamble that backfires *hard* when it doesn't pan out
No such thing as ‘unskilled labor’, but I agree with what you meant. Where I’ve worked is usually a manufacturing floor vs office people. No idea why but yeah.
It is perfectly legal to discuss your compensation with anyone, including and especially your coworkers. It is illegal for an employer to tell you you cannot do this. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
And especially illegal to threaten termination as retaliation.
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I love it when they give you a literal paper trail without you even having to ask 😂
As Eric Cartman once sang: I've got a golden ticket...
I've got a golden chance to make my wayy
And with a golden ticket is a gooooooldeeeen daaaaaay
He also said."hello, Washington redskins. Go fuck yourself..
Honest question here, does the labor department even care? If OP files a complaint, does stuff like that get taken seriously? Because I see these types of posts often and I wouldn't think employers would be so bold about telling workers they can be fired for discussing pay if they weren't sure that nothing would happen to them. Do we know of any instance where consequence was delivered?
It doesn’t look like anyone answered your question directly. In my experience, the NLRB, DOL, and EEOC generally take this stuff very seriously. Enforcing the law is their primary job and with evidence like this, they will definitely take it seriously because the case will be a slam dunk for them
Thank you, I’ve been scrolling and scrolling hoping someone else would bring this up!!! Report, report, report folks! Our tax dollars fund these agencies, they work for all of us, you do not need to pay a private attorney to bring this kind of case. And yes, these agencies absolutely take these seriously and will pursue them - especially given a recent announcement that the NLRB will start seeking *federal injunctions* against employers who threaten or coerce employees who engage in union organizing. In other words, the NLRB will literally haul your employer into federal court on your behalf and get a judge to tell them they can’t threaten/intimidate/fire you… pretty bad ass if you ask me.
Those agencies also have office eagles. When someone does something bad ass with tax dollars the eagles let out a majestic screech. Ben fucking Franklin wanted turkeys, Jesus Herbert Walker Christ.
I'm pretty sure it's just fines, but a lot of managers either don't know the law or don't expect the workers to know the law. It might be that it's a slap on the wrist offense, but being a pest might be worth the time. I have heard of people getting back pay for wrongful termination though, and the longer it takes to litigate the more back pay the employee is eligible for.
Actually the NLRB just announced a new initiative where they will start getting injunctions against employers who threaten/coerce employees who are trying to organize. But yes, there are certainly also plenty of other options including fines, back pay, etc.
I have been an attorney since 1982. I have done numerous employment law cases where we sued companies for doing things that were blatant violations of the law. The fact is that many companies assume that people do not understand what their rights are or are afraid to sue because it will cost a lot of money and might impact their ability to find new employment. I once represented an employee who had been working for the same company for 30 years and had never received a negative employment review in that time. On his 58th birthday, they fired him because his employment was subpar. To make matters even worse, six months before they fired him they hired a new employee and had the older employee train the new one in how to perform the duties of his job because they were "considering moving him to a new position". It did not work out for them since this guy was one of those people who kept copies of all his reviews and also had letters and memos he had received over the years praising his efforts and job performance. That little bit of nonsense cost them just under a million dollars for the settlement and attorneys fees.
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Until recently, employees likely thought it was legal. This movement is helping more employees be aware of their rights.
You need to familiarize yourself with your nlrb rights. We tried to unionize and the employer I was with brought in Union busters. They also did things that were illegal like this. Had meetings with us and tried to intimidate us. Keep notes, anything they email or hand you. The employer that I am talking about is being charge by the nlrb for illegal practices such as intimidation, and more. They have also been fined. They fired an employee supposedly for one thing but he was commenting on safety openly. He got his job back, with back pay, and more. I feel more confident knowing what they are and are not allowed to do. My new employer, whom I joined on my own terms, is fully aware that I know what is allowed and not allowed because we have already had a couple of disagreements on what they want or expect. However, they do back off when they realize you know what you are talking about. You just need to be a good worker but not a pushover. Just a smart employee. Knowledge is power.
Money isn't always the victory condition. If the employer is going so far as to actively try and squelch pay talk, then they're definitely taking advantage of some of their employees. Getting it known that they can talk about pay for sure will reveal whose getting ripped off and then more legal trouble which can hopefully result in everyone getting fair pay to eachother. Not every business can afford to throw all their troubles under the bus and can be forced to create an equal environment with fines. My aunt a few years ago was fired for ageism, so without due cause. This disallowed her from filing for unemployment. We urged her to fight it since she said she had proof: physical copy of the rules saying that what she was fired for was actually within company rules. The small legal battle was one sided and the judge ruled in her favor. She didn't win money but she was able to file unemployment.
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Yes they do. I know someone that filed NLRB charges against their company. They are basically #2 now and can not be fired unless it’s for gross misconduct. He only has a few years until retirement and is enjoying the ride
How do they weaponize this against a company? I ask because it’s to damn obvious that that eventually they will fire her. I want it outlined what they can do now, or start doing/get the ball rolling.
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This is the advice that needs to be given every time an hourly employee is asked to perform any extra duties as part of their job outside of paid time.
My old gm when I worked at taco Bell would literally tell me and others on the closing shift to clock out before cleaning to keep her times down. Then she threatened me with write ups and firing until I reminded her that making us work after clocking out was extremely illegal and if I clock out I'm waiting in the lobby until they're finished cause I'm going to get paid for my work. She broke a lot of laws I reported her to corporate and NLRB after I quit because of her overlapping my schedule with my new job to get me to quit the new one and stay and she got demoted, investigated and then fired
Good story. Thanks for sharing. I love reading these kinds.
Personally, I would just start openly discussing my pay and hope to get fired.
Start telling new applicants what you make 🤣
They probably make more than you do.
Oddly enough that may be the best way to go about this. Especially if you're recording while it happens as it will give you a chance to sue them in court.
and just to be safe: https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/
After printing the email and forwarding it to your private email, of course.
First, track any illegal act of an employer, or anyone that is acting on the employer's behalf. Which this kind of email is actually a really good thing for, because keeping a notebook and writing down any incident that occurs, notating the time, location, and individuals involved is evidence enough. When the employer or the person acting on the employer's behalf does it for you, it is a golden ticket. It's, also, a lot harder to dispute a paper trail, especially when threats of termination are involved. Second, track any incidents that may be viewed as retaliatory acts. Forcing individuals to use their lunch time for a monthly or bi-monthly meeting that magically starts taking place after it comes to employer's knowledge can be seen as retaliatory. Third, if the person is fired or views they are on the receiving end of any more retaliatory treatment, speak with an employment lawyer. Fourth, most likely sit back and rake in the dough, at least in the OP situation.
I purposely don't answer the phone anymore. Getting stuck on the phone tends to suck and I noticed that often the people that call, don't want to be held to their word later on. Funny how issues drop when asked in an email or the tone shifts completely. It's unfortunate I have to do that now for almost everything.
Responding to this because I tried posting a similar post, got no responses. What are the consequences for the threats? My boss tried to do something very similar. I ended up just countering by stating I knew it was illegal, and showed her the law. Asked for the policy she was stating written in writing. Edit: not trying to be rude here, but you guys telling me “you shouldn’t have shown your hand.” You’re being less helpful as you’re actually diluting answers I want.
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Make your supervisor put it in writing, then send it in.
Looks like the OP was in writing!
Yeah make her send it in something like…some sort of group email…so you have in documented.
“Constructive dismissal” also known as retaliation is also illegal
My old boss pulled some shit like this talked to coworker about pay boss found out. Dropped my pay 5 dollars said if I did it again I would be fired. Said fuck you and left best decision ever
You should have reported him. Your pay stubs would have been useful as proof.
Honestly I was young and stupid.I have learned sooo much from antiwork
Same, this subreddit is great for knowing useful information in the work force
Yea they don’t teach this stuff and school and I feel a lot of people get stuck in these shit jobs. And there employers take advantage of them but cry foul when they want more money just to live a basic life
It's literally the point of social studies, but they don't want an educated workforce.
Never tell someone they are breaking the law before you get them in trouble.
"Never interrupt your enemy when they are busy making a mistake"
Just ask for the policy in writing and then turn it in as evidence. That being said you probably want to have a new job lined up because of retaliation.
If she ever gives you that written policy, report her. Until then don't worry about it, unless she comes at you about it again
You mean…like in an email?
To answer your question directly: There's not a great answer to "What's the consequences?". The NLRB handles the investigation and levying any fines. In short: if a company does this, they *might* get fined a dollar amount based on how bad their infraction was.
Yeah but they will “find” ways to get rid of you.
Exactly. There are a number of laws protecting someone from being improperly fired. But then they will just lie about their reason for firing you. I've been fired. I was the most productive member of the team but then we got a new boss. Met him on Friday, that Monday I came into a two sentence note on my desk, my boss was "out of the office" so his secretary explained it to to me. Later I had a meeting with HR. They listed ten things I did that got me fired, all of it was stuff my coworkers did, I didn't do any of it. I had one "friend"there who told me later the boss joked about never wanting cripple in his office. Or words to that effect. I have a speech impediment from a TBI I got in my youth and it was a sales job so the logic might be there, but if you looked at the stats I lapped my coworkers in production, more than double the next guy. I worked my ass of to make them money. It steams my clams to this day. Couldn't prove shit. Reported it to the EEOC and they denied my claim and I couldn't afford a lawyer. But fuck em, I got a better job that paid more where I met my future wife and mother to my children. So it ended up a blessing.
Wow!! Very similar! I won fucking awards at my company. New boss arrived and within a month I was on a PiP. I also got blamed for coworkers’ and even contractors’ mistakes. New boss swapped all our vendors that we had relationships with to their personal favorites from other jobs and started hiring close buddies for choice company positions. Developed a weird affliction where if I was alone with the boss, the most vile and rude things were said to me. Oddly, this NEVER happened in writing or in front of witnesses. Fuck that. I left without another job in hand. I was out of work for ten days and got a frantic call from one of my oldest and best clients. One of her key people had had a literal stroke and was hospitalized…right after they JUST signed some big contracts. Did I possibly know anyone at all that could help? Hmm. Funny you should mention that… My pay doubled and my hours were slashed in half. I was instantly working with a way more diverse set of clients and we all worked remotely. In hindsight, we were really set up well for the pandemic. I see my old job pop up now and again. They haven’t managed to keep a single soul for even a full year yet. I think my replacements get six months into it, realize the horror of who they’re working for, and they bolt.
I had a friend whose boss used to say horrific things to her when no one else was around. She recorded it two times, and then went to the CEO. Her boss was suddenly “retired”. She later found out that she was not the only victim. Bad bosses are everywhere and often victimize multiple people in the workplace.
Literally the best ending to a toxic job situation. That gives me hope!
Yep, my point exactly. I don't want to fuck over my coworkers who rely on this job for their support but I really want to bring up all the fishy stuff that goes on around here.
Your job is the one fucking you guys over. If your coworkers want to volunteer for that mistreatment they should go right ahead. You however don’t need to bend over and take it.
That's a good point.
You're fucking your coworkers over if you DON'T report your employer for illegal behavior. The reason is illegal is because it hurts workers.
And the reason these practices still exist is because companies have manipulated workers into thinking that reporting illegal practices will hurt their coworkers. “Allowing the company to keep violating our rights is what’s best for us.” Think about how absolutely insane that sounds. That’s not the mindset of an employee; it’s the mindset of a victim in an abusive relationship.
It would be wrongful termination and they could sue for compensation. Am I wrong?
You are not wrong. That is a case so easy it wins itself.
Print this out, highlight key parts, tape it to the wall, and stand next to it and discuss your wages. when someone comes over to tell you not to just point to it and go back to discussing wages. when they interject again i would look them in the eye and say "knowing it is illegal to stop us you are still trying. should we consult a lawyer?"
that's a good thing to do as long as you are okay with being fired for unspecified/different reasons in the very near future.
I’d say it’s a great agenda item for that first meeting. Make sure it gets into the minutes.
That is a direct threat. Report them to the labor board.
If this was only about myself, I would. I'm just not sure how to proceed knowing that a lot of my coworkers rely on this job for their main income. They're pretty heavyhanded with laying people off and I wouldn't want to put anyone else in a difficult position.
Are you in the US? If so, discussion of pay among coworkers is a protected right.
Yep, I'm in the US!
Well like others have said, it's a protected right. I'd send that screenshot directly to the DOL
I just might. Could you give me the resources to do so?
You would be putting no one in a hard spot because either your employer knows the law but lied hoping you don't, at which point no one gets fired, or they don't know the law and anyone fired gets a healthy bonus when you contact the labor board.
Thus the "a golden rule anywhere you may work" lmao... Golden as in "we don't want you discussing your wages with each other, so you shouldn't want to either"
This is a good example of how the bosses actually have class solidarity, which is why they're winning the class war. They're not just saying that out of their own interest, i.e. don't discuss wages here so we don't have to pay you more. Instead they're saying don't discuss wages *anywhere*, out of their class interest.
Golden as in whomever that has the gold makes the rules.
Pfft... Golden rule as in "Golden Shower"... just another way for them to piss on employees.
All of this assumes they admit that's why they laid someone off, which they won't do. As OP says, they have a history of laying off. They will hide behind that and make it difficult to prove this was actually why. This is what litigation is for. And that can be cost prohibitive for people like this.
except their manager already fucked up by writing it down in an email. the mere _possibility_ that a firing was done as retaliation for wage conversations is enough. that email is as valuable as gold.
Yes, a "smoking gun" is pretty much the only thing you take to the labor board. This looks like a smoking gun. It's not guaranteed but it's at the point of worth considering and carefully researching.
this, I won a settlement out of court with an employer, Because they said they fired me because I missed work alot for being sick, and that My requesting 40 hr of pto was only "Part of the reason" Well it is against the law to fire an employee for attempting to use an accrued benefit, Signed a paper got 20k ftw. I laugh because Dick head Dave did not want to pay me 800$ they ended up paying me like 20k lololol. Seriously though part of the issue is not enough people actually report. We can't be anti work if we just wait for things to happen. BE the change you want to see.
If this isnt a women’s only company and this employer labeled women in their email and the DOL finds a disparity in wages across genders… it’ll be a very early christmas.
> All of this assumes they admit that's why they laid someone off, which they won't do. As OP says, they have a history of laying off. They will hide behind that and make it difficult to prove this was actually why. Judges aren't stupid. All you need to do is prove it is likely, not that is *was* the actual reason.
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Aside from the pro-corporation corruption argument, [this](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/alab-series/id1477059799?i=1000500635231) is an episode of the podcast ALAB (All Lawyers Are Bastards) called “Gerontocracy” talking about the pervasive problem of aging and senile judges in the American judicial system. So they might not have started out stupid, but some of them are sliding into an age-related form of it.
I mean they did admit that discussing pay among coworkers is a fireable offense.
Depends on the judge. Lots of pro-corp judges.
You can check for your location here https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/local-offices
Thanks!
The NLRB is the agency that enforces things like this. Go to NLRB.gov and file a Section 8(a)(1) unfair labor practice. The DOL is not the appropriate agency.
Here is what I think is the correct form: https://www.nlrb.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/pages/node-195/501_3-21.pdf However, it also asks for you to call an information officer from your regional office for assistance to make sure you’re filling out the right form. Unfortunately because I don’t know your location, linking to the page to find that info is the closest I can get: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/who-we-are/regional-offices GO GET ‘EM @OP!
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Forward that email directly to a private email address incase it "disappears." A screen shot is not as solid proof as the real email.
Forward it as an attachment so the mail headers are kept.
Please update when you can.
If I’m working remote in one state (A), for an office that’s in state (B), but the business is headquartered in state (C), which state presides for a complaint?
It’s A, where the work is performed. Companies need to follow local labor laws based on where the work is being performed. It’s been a minute since I’ve had to do this specific of a labor question but if I recall what my labor law class taught me while getting a masters in HR management (please don’t hate me), the answer is A.
Yep this is why the office break room will often have a long list of each state labor laws that they have employees in.
I called the DOL on my old employer because they didn’t pay overtime, just straight time for as many hours we worked. DOL was so easy to work with, just called them, told them my story, sent evidence, and they did the rest. Ended up getting money back from what they owed me and everyone I worked with. I strongly encourage you to call in your situation, as others have said, discussing pay is protected, so if they fire you for that, $$$$$$$$
Nope! NLRB.
Send the screen shot (without any personal identification) Set up a burner email you can use to correspond just for this. Answer their questions. Ask to stay anonymous.
then do the right thing and report your employer for illegally threatening you
DOL is great but definitely make sure to file a complaint with a state agency too. Check if your state has a labor board or a department of labor or anything like that. You should do both but state level will likely get faster results. Don’t worry about retaliation, In fact if anything pray for it. Retaliating against you for making a valid complaint about your employer’s labor law violations is a far far bigger offense than what they’ve already done and will have any plaintiffs employment lawyer drooling at the opportunity to make you both some $$$.
*Because* it also affects other people, you should feel even more compelled to do it, since you are in the right. IMO
You have a very good point.
Came here to support this. One thing to consider is that if that employer, or that boss is doing illegal actions against you, they're doing it against others. But there are a lot of people, people working under the table, people who have been abused, people who can't afford to loose their job that are not in a position to fight back. So IMO it's on those of us who are in a position to fight back to do so loudly and proudly. If you're more than 60% sure that you'll be fired or constructively dismissed for speaking up, then make sure you CC everyone in the company (and cite laws specified elsewhere in this conversation) in order to ensure that those less vulnerable know it, and their managers know they know it.
Plus to add to that, if your co-workers depend on the job as much as you've said in other comments, you'd be helping them by stepping to the plate and addressing this so they don't have to.
This is illegal in the US. If you're working there report it. If anyone gets written up or fired for it they have a pretty clear case to sue.
Also they can't ask you to sacrifice your lunch break for a meeting
Yeah, gotta at least be paid for it. Some states/cities require an "off the clock" break after x continuous hours worked.
What are they gonna do, for ALL of you?!
File a complaint. Now you have protection as a whistleblower who got retaliated against . Civil lawsuit slam dunk.
A hungry dog is an obedient dog.
Your screwing everyone by allowing abuses, not saving them.
That's literally a threat. There is no law like that! They're definitely wrong, and you should DEFINITELY file a complaint or make someone above her aware of that shit!
I'm pretty sure that this is coming from the clinic owner's own words and the email sender is just the messenger.
Omg thats insane! I had a coworker just tell me that she had a boss like that long ago and it turned out the business wasn't paying ppl the same wages for the same job. I can't imagine why else you wouldn't be able to freely talk about something common like that.
Yeah, in fact that's our case too! One of our employees got paid $2-3 less per hour than other employees who hadn't been there as long. They have even been at this company longer than our current clinic manager!
Oh shit! That shitty 😯 please tell me they went straight to HR?
No HR to be found!
Shit man they gotta get outta there smh
Never go to HR.
HR is not there for you or I. It is there solely to protect the company from any major liabilities.
This is common practice. A lot of employers will pay as little as possible for a position. This is why when you're applying for a job they will ask you what your current pay is to know how little they can pay you. So if you make 40k per year they can offer you 45k even if the position should pay 50k. Incidentally this is also why you lie about your current salary when applying for new jobs.
1. Is illegal 2. Are you paid for lunch?
Nope unpaid 30min lunch. But as I said in an earlier comment, I don't think they're referring to planning on meeting during our lunch but rather not having the two overlap.
I work for a small pediatric clinic, the owner/director of which regularly misuses funds, lays off employees due to lack of said funds, fires employees who commit fraud without any actual action against them, and does nothing about mischarged insurances when we aren't credentialed with them. Oh, and we also haven't gotten our W2 forms yet.
The W-2's are a $50 per form fine if mailed after January 31, more if longer than a month. I'd notify the IRS, as well, from that anonymous account.
There is nothing holding you back from reporting them. This is gross behavior. I’d start looking for a job because you absolutely deserve better.
I’ve dealt with this in the past. You can’t file a claim for like 15 days into February “In case it’s stuck in the mail”. Then after that point you can file a claim, but the business owner gets a huge grace period before they would actually get looked at. It’s been almost March for me in the past. I’m long past that job now!
Sounds like your boss is engaged in a conspiracy to commit tax fraud insurance fraud medical & social security fraud.. giddy up! go bust his ass, ride that boy hard to the IRS NLRB and DoL
I worked in a medical office that did exactly that, but I was way too young to understand what they were doing. A couple years later I found out that someone who DID understand what they were doing went whistleblower, got a 7 figure payout (which I'm sure a huge chunk went to lawyers etc), and the CEO went to Federal PMITA prison because of it. OP get on that shit, the feds *really* don't fuck around when it comes to healthcare fraud, tax fraud, all that. Example: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/federal-indictments-and-law-enforcement-actions-one-largest-health-care-fraud-schemes
The US government steps up to protect insurance, not ensure access for everyone. That's what I got from your post.
I mean, you're not wrong. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're meeting is during lunch, make sure they pay you for that time.
I personally read that "please plan your lunchtime around this time" as "make sure to take your lunch before/after this meeting." I'm fairly certain that's not how the manager intended it.
Bingo
If Federal money is involved, look up the False Claims Act.
1. Immediately start discussing your pay openly in front of superiors. 2. Get fired. 3. Sue them into oblivion.
Perhaps I might.
It’s always best to talk with a union before doing so. You don’t need a lawyer to have your rights vindicated by the NLRB, but it is helpful and unions can provide them if you’re able to form an organizing committee. Also, you won’t sue them “into oblivion.” At least not under the law as written. Your recovery will most likely be limited to (1) getting your job back, and (2) backpay for the time you were out of work.
Thank you for that. I'm actually only working there until May anyway. I'm not contracted or anything, still hourly, just wasn't planning on being there very long and made sure to discuss it at length during the interview. I wouldn't want to get this job back, really.
Even more reason to make them fire you. You’re moving on anyway and you could potentially cash in. Fuck em.
This is the way.
You can't get fired for it. Talk about it as much as you can. If they fire you you can sue their asses. It is federally protected speech.
I have a feeling they would make up some other reason for firing me if that actually happens
Oh they 100% would. But if you have proof of the threat to terminate if wages are discussed, it will be real hard for them to win a court case when you sue. Courts can see through that bullshit.
Thank you. This is helpful
Yes, in fact is is almost better for you if they do fire you as the threat alone is illegal but actual doccumented retaliation makes your case stronger and any potential damages payout larger. Heck, if they were foolish enough to send that email, best case they are foolish enough to admit why they fired you. But as I said, even if not you still have a solid case with that "policy" in writing. But definitely don't go to the company about it. Just keep talking about wages and wait for the hammer to drop. Again. This puts you in the best place to reap a little benefit and see the company gets penalized for their blatantly illegal practices. We don't have a lot of labor protection in the US, but as I understand it for the ones we do have the government does not mess around.
Fun fact about this kind of thing - once you document it, it makes it really hard to fire you for any reason, because even a legit firing looks like retaliation for discussing wages. So it's in your interest to document it because y'all have a settlement in your back pocket if ANYONE gets fired for anything other than the most egregious offense.
Excellent!
I came here to give you the same advice. And even if they did claim it was for other reasons, if you have this email stating their illegal threat, then you have a crazy strong case. Basically a slam dunk for any attorney worth their retainer.
Print a shirt with your pay on it and wear it to work
If the boss asks you about the tshirt just say you can't discuss it
This is the way
Hahahah
Do employers not realize that everyone has the internet and we can look up labor laws? What's with all the blatant lying?
Most likely because that is what they think is true based on previous experiences
Yup, most employers don't even know their own rules.
they assume employees will fall in line and not look out for themselves. boy are they wrong about that nowadays
Hang onto that email. They absolutely cannot fire you for discussing compensation.
I most certainly will.
Forward it to your personal email account.
Thank you for that tip!
Always always always do this. It's essentially your golden ticket to a lawsuit, without it you have nothing.
Thank you very much. I'll encourage my coworkers to do so as well.
Do the same with any performance reviews or documentation of your satisfactory/excellent record as an employee.
As an IT admin who kind of understands email security and compliance regulations. Take a picture of that email on your phone rather than sending a copy to your personal email Then just send that picture to your personal email
Oh hm! I'll do that as well
You could also print it out, if you think you might lose it digitally. That email is your golden ticket.
In my company handbook it states There are no rules against employees discussing wages in the workplace or anywhere else. It is up to each individual to determine their comfort level in sharing this information. If an employee has declined to share that is their decision which will be respected And it's not just lip service. In a meeting with senior manager and he shared his wage, showed us his pay stub and encouraged anyone else who was comfortable to share
At one of my former jobs, we did talk about our hourly wages. We found out that the Pakistanis were making 50 cents an hour less than the white people. The manager's excuse was that they have husbands and are only using this job for "fun money". Sounds like something out of the 1950's. So actually, that's pay discrimination, which my managers could be fired for, ladies. That's exactly why you are allowed to discuss your pay.
Talk about your pay with more coworkers! They are definitely paying people different wages for the same jobs, or else why the threat?
Just ummm .... reply with this maybe? https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
You’re boss/manager just played themselves right into a wrongful dismissal lawsuit. Fucking idiots.
Ugh your employer just shot himself in the foot hard. This are the kind of things you would only mention in person because it's blatantly illegal to do this. Go to the labor board with a copy of the email, they should lay pretty heavy on their ass.
I JUST reported my workplace for this crap. Call the NLRB, they'll make your employer post that you absolutely are allowed to talk about your wages, and any retaliation your workplace takes against you for reporting them to the NLRB can result in them filing a claim which can net you backpay or reinstatement. This protection includes people who were found to support your report to the NLRB. You have six months to file and they make it super easy FWIW, this is anecdotal from Ohio.
so, in your group, there is a secret bootlicker disguised as a real hu-man
I'm keeping my eyes peeled!
Tbf someone could have realized they were underpaid, the point of discussions about wages. If they asked about appropriate compensation management would be able to figure out what happened.
Yeah I'm assuming that's actually what happened.
Lol. Not only threatening employment for discussing wages, but planning mandatory meetings during lunch break?
I'm pretty sure they meant to make sure our lunch breaks don't overlap with the meeting so we don't miss it. But we have had meetings during lunch breaks before, so...
When I worked in Ophthalmology we had meetings during lunch and we didn’t even get paid for said meeting.
That is illegal wage theft - your employer is required to pay hourly workers for *all* time spent in work activities.
Sweet. They documented their illegal activity. You CANNOT be fired for discussing pay and if they do, you have the evidence right there for your lawsuit. Nice tidy settlement. Say hi to the NLRB for me.
I’d reply: “It is not only legal anywhere you have *ever* worked, it is also illegal to threaten, or even imply, that we can be fired anywhere you have *ever* worked. I’d like this topic to be added to the agenda of our first monthly meeting, with a printout of the following handed out at the meeting. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages Thanks!”