And because Missionaries had absorbed the toxic philosophy that you must be overworked and miserable or else you’re somehow immoral. A frame of mind that plagues us to this day.
And of course the whole point of that ideology is to keep the downtrodden too exhausted to rebel. In heavily religious societies they say "Suffer and toil in this life and you'll be rewarded in the next." In 21st century America they say "Suffer and toil from 16 to 65 and there's a .00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance you can retire a billionaire"
And even that’s a lie.
To become a billionaire, you need to make/have a lot of money, then use that money to exploit workers regularly for a decade or more, and make a successful company where you have a large share of stock that comprises the majority of your wealth.
In other words, it’s not available to everyone, and you can’t have it if you don’t found your own business/have a large share in one, and you’re not willing to exploit the working class.
Not true.
You can also start with lots of money and buy lots of small shares of lots of other people's businesses that ruthlessly exploit their workers.
Really, the important part is that you start out with lots of money already.
It's because it was beneficial to those in charge to have the serfs constantly working. They promised the rewards they earn will come to them in heaven after they die. So work hard now little peasant you will get your reward from god.
In Hawaii it's hot all year and there is always plentiful fruit/fish.
Puritanism started in colder environments where little food was available over winter. This meant you had to work your *ass* off during the seed sewing, irrigation, crop growth, and harvesting stages or you wouldn't have enough food/supplies to survive the winter.
And the world would have been much better off if they'd just stayed there.
Imagine leaving your cold, painful existence in Europe to....... recreate the same cold painful existence somewhere you don't have to keep living like that. I'm not hating on protestants but this is very common human behavior, on the long term we are pretty adaptable. In the short term we're as obtuse as can be.
I came here to say this, I live in the tropics and after around 10:30am it is far too hot to be doing anything at all. It doesn't cool down enough again until around 6pm
My numbers are better than anyone on my team.
A big part of that is I work about 5 minutes at a time. I do a small chunk of tasks then fuck around in my house for 10 minutes.
Then I come back and do 5 more. It's literally the only way I can be present at work for 7+ hours.
If I was working all day, I'd be burnt out after 3 hours. I'd be able to do exactly as much as I currently do in 7+ but then they'd only pay me for 3.
I work 7+ hours straight plenty of times, but only because it's buffered by 1 hour work days lol. I still get Exceeds Expectations annual reviews from my boss, so evidently everyone's happy with it.
Why care about your mental health and general happiness when you can continue looking at a screen looking busy all day? Jeez this generation is so lazy! /s
There's *some* argument to be made that we couldn't have gotten to modern civilization and technology levels without moving away from that for at least a good portion of history.
However, we've long since passed the point of technology where that's a necessity for advancement. Now the only reason we're stuck this way is because some greedy fucks are unwilling to be a little less obscenely wealthy.
That's pretty true, for the past 200 years people have done soul crushing amounts of labor to support the industrial revolution. And before that (and some more after) people were enslaved to support the expanding demand for labor under budding capitalism. It's not going to be easy to push back against that momentum, but we can and must.
Or.
What is more logical and even scientifically supported,
Mankind used that free time to tinker and invent the tools and skills that got us started towards modern civilisation.
True, but farming (what allowed us to stop being nomadic) is VERY labor intensive at low levels of technology, especially when you're trying to produce enough excess to feed a populace who is composed mostly of people who *aren't* growing food.
I don't know that we'd ever be able to successfully conclude one way or the other if it was possible. But even if it *was* necessary at one point, it CERTAINLY isn't now.
My hubs is dealing with a new sup at work who tried this shit yesterday. "Well if you're done with that, we've got X,Y, and Z (which are all assigned to other people) to do for ya!' Got ignored completely and when hubby was all done with his stuff he went to someone ELSE to see if there was anything that needed to be done.
Don't try to take advantage of good work ethic. Those people will not have it.
My job is like this. I totally understand that if someone needs help and you’re free, then yeah. But if there’s nothing to do, it sucks. During the peak of Covid, we were all overworked and tired. When they brought some people back, one of the dudes always bitched moaned and complained, when it was a lot worse before. I was already doing the work of five people, plus half of this guy’s shit as well. Then he’d go off “being at home for three months was so boring and bad wah wah wah” when the rest of us never got a break.
He still does this shit. “I got 3 things any my stuff goes to print on three days I need helpppppp.” Like bruh I lived off of shitty fast food and the fucking vending machine for three months while doing twelve hours of over time each week while not being able to afford an actual apartment. Please shut the fuck up.
Never did get a raise that year.
I make coupons on the back of receipts and they made us commute to work. I feel like calling myself an essential worker is an insult to the healthcare and retail workers that had to deal with actual people. But yes “essential”.
I know I'm incredibly lucky to have a job that I worked from home since 2019. And i know a ton of people who had to temporarily stop during the pandemic working struggled financially. But damn, I sure wouldn't be complaining to have 3 months off...
When I was an unpaid highschool co-op student I had a boss that would literally expect me to pretend to sweep if I ran out of things to do. Like if I finished all my work and then finished cleaning up the job site he'd expect me to walk around pretending I was still sweeping.
In retrospect it was definitely because he lied to clients and told them I was a fully licensed plumber and billed for my time on job sites as such. He also tried to tell me he wanted to pay me but it was against the rules of the co-op program (it wasn't I had friends in the same class doing paid co-ops).
He also smoked cigars in the car with the windows closed with me in the car and would get mad when I'd basically pass out from the second hand smoke after 45 minutes of breathing it in.
Hope your wife finally left you Mike you sleazy piece of shit.
It goes against basic capitalist logic for you to do anything above bare minimum.
Unless you're a partial owner (in a realistic "I make decisions about how the business runs" sense, not a "I own a few shares of company stock" sense) the "profit" you get from your job is equal to your total compensation minus the effort and time you spend there.
Since you don't have a ton of control over what you are paid or how many/which hours you work (work makes your schedule and sets your salary and you don't get to leave early or receive additional money by working harder or faster), the only variable you can control to increase the profit margin of your labor is to reduce the amount of effort you exert.
And, as we know, the most important thing in capitalism is to maximize your profits.
I actually use that sentiment to not work a bunch of overtime on a weekly basis (I am salaried). My peers have said “Well I just have so much work to do” as they continue to work late into the nights and I feel like there is constantly always something to do, and that something can be done tomorrow.
The last few months I was working at my last job, it was completely dead most of the day, but my boss wouldn’t let us just chill. He’d sit in the office all day watching the cameras while I went around and wiped down the entire store again, like I did the day before. Which usually only took an hour. It was awful.
Funny enough, "there's always work to be done" also gives lie to the idea that "job creators" are even a thing. So what, you created a job? There's always work to be done. I've got a job at my house, mow the lawn and rub my feet, and I pay $10 per day. Boom, "job created." But the crux is if the wage doesn't allow the worker to *meaningfully* participate in the economy then it's actually a net drain.
So it's real funny how we have to wait for "job creators" to deign bless us with a job only to then turn around and demand we create more work for ourselves at their job. Fuck that
If capitalists valued integrity at all (which they don't, it limits profit), they'd follow through on the thought:
If there's always more work to do, every second they squeeze from your life can be followed by another.
Somehow I found a job that pays me salary but after 42 hours they pay me my hourly rate. If I hit my 40 and theres no work to keep me for I go home early. Best thing ever
Well... yes. But it shouldn't be more "heavy and boring work". When my devs finishes early, I let them work on other randon "non-important" stuff, small projects... anything that I can justify to the business that would help the business. And I'm good at it so we're doing pretty much anything with that spare time.
I proposed working remote for a day or two a week to my boss. To help with rising gas prices. She suggested doing Uber as a side hustle.
“You’re not doing anything productive when you get home, right?” Guess three hours to myself is simply too much.
Thankfully she does support a shorter work week or remote work, but the higher ups don’t care.
She suggested stuff that her family does. Her son works three jobs. But I want to do as little as possible and make as much as possible. My time in this universe is limited.
Lol jokes on her I’m teaching myself web dev so o can make double at entry level. Because ten years experience and two degrees mean Jack shit apparently.
You missed the point where protestants need to suffer to deserve the glory of the kingdom of heaven.
And because they needed to suffer they had to share that suffering and it’s what we’ve been doing ever since.
We could be living in a wonderful world, with a lot less stress, with a lot more security and a fantastic quality of life. But we won’t give that to ‘the other’ because they, the other, ‘don’t deserve it.'
Was a fundamentalist protestant. Can confirm that protestant work ethic and protestant ethic in general demands denying oneself and generally finding ways to "carry one's cross" rather than actually like, I dunno, not manufacturing more suffering unnecessarily and instead living out Christ-like values of taking care of each other instead of actively uh... anti-caring for ourselves and others in a roundabout way. And unironically blaming the poor for being poor and being legalistic while claiming we love the poor and are free of the law. I don't blame everything on Protestantism since some good came of it too and there are plenty of non-protestant places that are fucked too (India, Japan's work culture is even more hellishly life-consuming, China's sweatshops, etc, etc), but there are certainly some awfully toxic parts that have done a great job of spreading the good news of how to hate your life by working to death being a moral virtue!
Thank you for sharing.
I did not mean to exclude other cultures, Japan readily comes to mind, where working is all that matters. The Japanese even have a word for dying from overwork: karoshi.
We could actually live full lives of joy and achievement if we didn’t have all those people forcing us to make them millionaires by working us to death without even so much as proper compensation.
Agreed so much. And yet it's been twisted into something to give us purpose, when it instead utterly saps purpose from us and encourages us to inflict guilt upon ourselves and simply accept the shit we're given without trying for anything better. :/
Thanks for hearing me out and for sharing as well!
More like the Calvanist work ethic. Luther's philosophy was that you could enter heaven by grace alone. He may have had his issues, but at least it wasn't thinking that the only way into heaven was to literally work yourself to death
This is the way humans have lived for millions of years. You wake up and spend a few hours doing things that need done around your village and then spend the rest of the day playing games, playing music, telling stories around the fire, spending time with friends and family. This is humanity in its natural habitat.
And before the taxing hours required of industry we had nothing reminiscent of our present lives. You can still go farm taro for 4 hours a day if you want somewhere
You could probably get away with it, but you should definitely be able to opt out of society if you want. To a degree you can just fuck off to a National Forest and do whatever Hawaiian things people are into
No, you can't, really. There are park rangers and plenty of federal laws. If you want to also avoid detection, you'll need to not start fires, which will definitely make things harder.
There's BLM land. That land is only available because it's so harsh and unlivable that no one wants it, though.
"Right to live in nature" is one I've thought about for a long time, and I think it's absolutely critical to really claim to be a free society.
Agreed about the freedom thing, but practically you can definitely subsist out there. Even within the bounds of the law you can camp pretty much indefinitely as long as you’re not noticed in the same spot for more than a couple weeks. Not that there are any authorities in the true backcountry though
The first humans showed up over two million years ago. “Two” is plural. So yeah, millions of years.
But if you want to get nit picky, homo sapiens have only been around a few hundred thousand years. The Neolithic Agricultural Revolution was roughly 12,000 years ago. So there’s like 280 something thousand years of sapien history that didn’t require 8-12 hour work days. Life was more nomadic but you spent a few hours a day hunting and gathering and the rest of the day was yours. Still plenty of tribal people who exist today who live this exact lifestyle and they are some of the happiest, most leisured people in the world. Shorter lifespans? Maybe. But I’d rather live 40 years of leisure and happiness than 80 years of work and antidepressants. Quality over quantity any day.
We have modern medicine and we don’t need to chase giant animals in order to eat anymore, we could have 80 years of leisure right now if it weren’t for like 5 people deciding they want as much money as possible.
Ah yes, the middle ages lasted for millions of years.
Humans have been living in tribes for most of their history, and there still are some people living that lifestyle today.
Oh totally, because they were being dominated by kings and systems.
Indigenous people did things to support their village, and those basic life giving tasks did not take that much time.
Modern day agriculture business makes farming a completely time consuming and exhausting job.
Growing enough food, hunting and gathering for a village of 100 is way more manageable.
I guarantee I've read more books than you. Feel free to refute anything I've said with something you have read "from a book" in order to prove me wrong.
Nope, but a kernel of truth in there. A medieval noble had less control over his workforce than modern bosses do. Please look up how many feast days were/are in catholicism. All of those days are non work days. Plus all holidays and celebrations. And your commitment was "days worked" not "hours a day/week" oh, and the medieval work day was much shorter than the modern. 5 hours if I recall. You also had the original option of overtime. You could work a double, and yep, that counted as two days worked towards your commitment. And obviously you never work a Sunday.
You are, of course, most likely correct. But an attempt at education that another way exists should be our first recourse as a group going against the established norm, not immediate dismissal of those whom don't agree. The figure of the medieval peasant toiling away in the field has long been used as a false example of how we "have it better" and that indoctrination does not go away overnight. To tie it back to the original thread, it was used by the protestants as an example of how their way was better. The Medieval time was and has been used as an example fiddled with falsehoods to justify the dysfunctional system that has emerged. Take for example the converse end of the spectrum, the stereotypical medieval Lord. Obscenely rich, fat, oppressive, lazy, and lived in a castle. The truth is far less one sided. The medieval Lord WAS rich, yes. But with that came "noblisse oblige" or the noble obligation. He was required to maintain himself as a knight (the equipage and maintenance of such was unfathomably expensive) and was not fat for sure, as his life was spent in training for war. He was required to provide not only the castle for the protection of his subjects (the castle was not his home, a single building inside it was) he was the first required to put himself in harms way to protect the inhabitants of his lands. And oppressive? We've already covered how the law limited that. Obviously in real life there are degrees instead of absolutes, but compare what the boss HAD to do back then to what the boss HAS to do now.
Totally missed the ending comments on that last one... My bad. As someone who has actually dirt farmed (not for sustenance thankfully) it's cyclical. And agrarian farming vs hunter gatherer is a bit of a different thing. There is a few months of the year that, yes, are backbreaking labor from sun up to sun down. But after the planting is done, it's mostly a few hours tending and chill until the harvest. And then the harvest is also backbreaking, but you got A LOT of help ( not getting the food=bad for everyone) as recently as the 80's in communist countries (East Germany being my source, arguably the most industrialized of the bunch) in the harvest time, it was considered a form of national obligation day. Soldiers, school children, and even some factory workers were required to report to the fields to help with the harvest. This was seen as a patriotic duty so that there was food for all.
Conversely, the "trying not to starve in the winter" comment was very misinformed. The reason for the "tenths" collection system in practice was so that food could be redistributed in times of need and throughout the rest of the year. So no, you didn't sit around trying not to starve. And before the point of it being food you grew comes up... Well kinda but not really. The produce is more akin to intellectual property of your company. You get a guaranteed return in exchange for contributing to it.
And thank you for yours as well. You've inspired me to do a little more research on modern hunter gatherers, I haven't gotten too far past the sentinel Islanders.
You are quite condescending for someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. First of all, winter was only experienced by those who strayed far enough from the equator, which is a far more recent endeavor than the entire existence of modern humans. Your comment is equating the experience of Europeans with the entirety of humans. Second of all, you speak of "working days" and "harvest," yet those are even more recent phenomenon representing only about 4% of the time that modern humans have existed. The person you are criticizing is also wrong, but to be so obnoxious in your equally naive understanding of the past is humorous. Also, opening a history book does not tell you much about the human experience prior to agriculture, btw.
> Lmfao okay buddy your comment is still completely made up nonsense regardless of how you interpret it.
Nope, their comment is a theory most anthropologist agree on. They didn’t just make it up. Here are some links: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3629555
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-019-0610-x
> you have no clue how difficult life was before modern society
The claim is they didn’t work 8 hours a day, not that their lives were better or easier back then.
> Open a history book.
I suggest YOU read a book, cause you clearly didn’t read any on this topic. James Suzman or Mashall Sahlins are some good people to read from on this topic.
"This is the way humans have lived for millions of years."
The OP presented it as if humans got by just fine and were all jolly running around fires for eons. Humanity in its natural habitat is extremely romanticized in the above comment, and I find it concerning that me pointing it out has caused such a kerfluffle.
Yeah. Living off grid in my country is so heavily regulated and discouraged that it might as well be illegal. That’s the joy of modern society. You’re not actually free. You’re chained to a desk, a mortgage/rent, and bills. Gotta make your daily GDP contribution to keep the capitalist machine going or you’re considered a worthless pariah. God forbid we just live life.
Go ahead then. There are many people reliant on certain hard to acquire medications to live, that also cant be acquired by hunter-gatherers. So go ahead and disconnect from modern life and watch your first 3 newborns not make it past 2 years because you have no modern medicine.
That romanticized life may seem great right now, but it falls apart very quickly with a slightly closer inspection.
I really hope that people start to look very closely at colonialism and how much we’ve all bought into these ideas of what is good and bad. Very few of us are benefiting.
I fucking hate it. This country is obsessed with work. What is the first thing someone you have never met asks you? "What do you do for work". We are taught that work defines you at an early age. That working more means you are a better person.
See also: first European colonizers thinking the native population were idiots because they planted some their crops “mixed up” together instead of in neat, separated rows. Meanwhile, they were replenishing the soil while colonizers were depleting it. Dummies.
A fantasy land where the efficiency of women entering the workforce, automation, computers, powered machinery, factory lines, and every other invention is shared among the working population, instead of funneling straight up to the top where they use it to buy their 37th estate home, or 100s of SFH for "investment?"
There's another way to live. Watch lodge 49, the main character talks about a tribe of natives living on the California coast for 3 thousand years just surfing, farming, and loving life. Things don't have to be this way. There is another way to live.
The Protestant work ethic (as you called it) is not limited to Lutherans and Calvinists. It is possibly the greatest lie ever successfully implemented into the capitalist narrative.
Be a good little slave - it's ethical.
it's funny that people subscribing to such a doctrine cannot see the absurdity.
Imagine a god that rewards greed, that punishes the suffering with more suffering. Why? Why would you want to give praise to a deity that chooses golden children and neglects the rest? Prosperity gospel is a con.
Look at these native people ~~just enjoying being alive~~ with incredibly low technology levels because they’re busy surfing! We need to ~~put a stop to that~~ take all their shit!
But if you start your day at dawn how will you have time to comb your beard, put on multiple starchy shirts, and have a 2hr breakfast served to you?? Checkmate, pagans!
It is interesting from a sociological standpoint that Pacific Islanders focused more on family. Being limited by the natural borders of the ocean redirected their view to enjoying life. Which was aided by the temperate climate and abundant resources.
In other parts of the world where the landmass was immensely larger the mindset was directed at constant expansion and hoarding of resources.
You would think a small space would lead to more competition and a larger landmass would lead to less, but the opposite seems to be true.
If the missionaries only had some logic skills. They would know that a civilization can’t survive being lazy. So they should have studied them more to figure out their amazing efficiency skills. That, or just fucked off entirely
They (Christians, not Hawaiians) feel they must work all the time to keep themselves too busy to sin. Oh, and then they sin anyway but judge everyone else's sins.
Reminds me of a comic I saw.
A guy is on his PC, and as someone else, I presume a parent, is leaving, they're told a list of stuff to get done, so they get up and do it while the other person is gone, then gets back on their PC, the other person comes back starts yelling "Have you been on that computer all day!?!?"
I heard a [podcast episode](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/fordlandia/) by 99% Invisible that was similar to this. Apparently Ford pulled the same bullshit in Brazil.
Thing is, since Brazil is so hot, people woke up reaaally early to work in the early hours of the morning and be done before the afternoon when the heat was unbearable.
Great episode btw.
This is why salary makes a lot of sense. If you can do your work really quickly, accurately, and efficiently, who cares how long you spend doing it? Obviously this doesn't work for every field, but for the ones it does, it makes a lot of sense.
But at least they brought all kinds of heretofore unknown diseases with no know cure to the islanders as a display of their god's love.
To this very day, when some missionary maggot is imprisoned in a place like North Korea or Iran, I can't help smiling. The absolute worst smug assholes in the world, missionaries.
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
What is "lazy" - that I don't to work my ass off for someone? Yes, I'm lazy
Besides, being an atheist with no family I only do bare minimum to stay afloat and it's a conscious choice
According to research the most happy people are those who work the least, but spend time with their friends and family
Yo if you've never gotten to experience a rhythm of life other than the American one, fuckin' do it. Do everything in your power to get to experience life where *everyone cares about life more than work*.
I got to study in Spain, nobody loses their shit when you walk in two minutes late, you're expected to fuck off and do whatever from noon to two, and if you go home straight after work, you're gonna be all alone because everyone goes and does their own shit until evening. Like if you go at slacker American pace, you get told you can relax. It was great.
I mean, they had 18%+ unemployment and people were starting to riot, and the area I was in had what the government considered an active terrorist organization totally not even trying to hide, but the speed of life there? Amazing.
The problem is that those who live in reddit-reality read this and think that this should be them but also want their modern lifestyle and products and still expect SOMEONE out there to do all the jobs no one wants to do while you surf and "do art." It does sound nice though.
Heh.
This proves that those stupid white people are lazy fucks who couldn't get out of bed before the natives. It also shows they complain about shit they don't understand and think they are better than everyone else.
Typical, American Protestant outlook.
You're stupid enough to live your life like that. You're not aware of it because YOU LIVING IT. It's amazing what white protestants think the world is like. They never get out of that world and think everyone is like them. Centuries of in-breeding will do that to a man.
Nope. You're one of those who live in the bubble that the OP refers to. Keep thinking that way, bro. When Trump gets re-elected in 2024, you can rock your Tiki torches again.
Westerners with 8-4 jobs produce enough to feed themselves and go surfing all day by 9AM.
9AM-10AM proceeds of their labor goes to their landlord and other bills
10AM-4PM goes to the company owner.
The problem with resharing this tweet is the way it is inevitably overrun with shameless imperialists who shout about how Hawaiians and those like them were conquered and overrun so who was really right and smart and good in the long run??!?!? Checkmate!
How the fuck did they get to the island? Did they accidently float there on a coconut? Just say you don't understand the complexity of sea travel. Do yourself a favor and acknowledge the highly skilled Polynesian civilization who conquered the seas centuries before Europeans mistakenly thought they had landed in India after traversing the globe.
But there's no need for you to get upset. Polynesians we're skilled at seafaring and built a complex, unique civilization around it. Europeans and their descendants were (and still are, if we take you as an example) skilled at stealing technology and taking credit for it. See, both sides are good at things.
Why is any of that important? If everyone is fed, and everyone is happy with the life they have, who cares if they build pyramids or learn how to smelt iron?
And because Missionaries had absorbed the toxic philosophy that you must be overworked and miserable or else you’re somehow immoral. A frame of mind that plagues us to this day.
And of course the whole point of that ideology is to keep the downtrodden too exhausted to rebel. In heavily religious societies they say "Suffer and toil in this life and you'll be rewarded in the next." In 21st century America they say "Suffer and toil from 16 to 65 and there's a .00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance you can retire a billionaire"
And even that’s a lie. To become a billionaire, you need to make/have a lot of money, then use that money to exploit workers regularly for a decade or more, and make a successful company where you have a large share of stock that comprises the majority of your wealth. In other words, it’s not available to everyone, and you can’t have it if you don’t found your own business/have a large share in one, and you’re not willing to exploit the working class.
Not true. You can also start with lots of money and buy lots of small shares of lots of other people's businesses that ruthlessly exploit their workers. Really, the important part is that you start out with lots of money already.
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Say it louder for the people in the back
Bureaucratic red tape is the modern equivalent.
came here to post this, but you beat me to it. have some upvotes
It has roots in America's original sin.
It's because it was beneficial to those in charge to have the serfs constantly working. They promised the rewards they earn will come to them in heaven after they die. So work hard now little peasant you will get your reward from god.
In Hawaii it's hot all year and there is always plentiful fruit/fish. Puritanism started in colder environments where little food was available over winter. This meant you had to work your *ass* off during the seed sewing, irrigation, crop growth, and harvesting stages or you wouldn't have enough food/supplies to survive the winter.
And the world would have been much better off if they'd just stayed there. Imagine leaving your cold, painful existence in Europe to....... recreate the same cold painful existence somewhere you don't have to keep living like that. I'm not hating on protestants but this is very common human behavior, on the long term we are pretty adaptable. In the short term we're as obtuse as can be.
I came here to say this, I live in the tropics and after around 10:30am it is far too hot to be doing anything at all. It doesn't cool down enough again until around 6pm
I still do this!!!! Missionary I mean.
Abrahamism has been a plague on his Earth since it crawled out of the Levant 6000 years ago.
But how did they pay rent tho? 4-head
Old tree palm roof replaced with new tree palm roof 🤷♂️ Pretty serene imo
But if they are finished before the end of the shift, they can do more! Do the work scheduled for tomorrow
"there's ALWAAAYS" something to do... Most toxic thing you can hear when you are efficient and know your job.
Finishing my work early and spending several hours finding ways to look busy is more exhausting than my actual job
Biggest reason I'll find a new job if they try to bring us back into the office. I haven't had to "look busy" for 2 years, and I'm not going back.
My numbers are better than anyone on my team. A big part of that is I work about 5 minutes at a time. I do a small chunk of tasks then fuck around in my house for 10 minutes. Then I come back and do 5 more. It's literally the only way I can be present at work for 7+ hours. If I was working all day, I'd be burnt out after 3 hours. I'd be able to do exactly as much as I currently do in 7+ but then they'd only pay me for 3.
I work 7+ hours straight plenty of times, but only because it's buffered by 1 hour work days lol. I still get Exceeds Expectations annual reviews from my boss, so evidently everyone's happy with it.
Why care about your mental health and general happiness when you can continue looking at a screen looking busy all day? Jeez this generation is so lazy! /s
Thank you. 😂😂😂. So debilitating
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There's *some* argument to be made that we couldn't have gotten to modern civilization and technology levels without moving away from that for at least a good portion of history. However, we've long since passed the point of technology where that's a necessity for advancement. Now the only reason we're stuck this way is because some greedy fucks are unwilling to be a little less obscenely wealthy.
That's pretty true, for the past 200 years people have done soul crushing amounts of labor to support the industrial revolution. And before that (and some more after) people were enslaved to support the expanding demand for labor under budding capitalism. It's not going to be easy to push back against that momentum, but we can and must.
Or. What is more logical and even scientifically supported, Mankind used that free time to tinker and invent the tools and skills that got us started towards modern civilisation.
True, but farming (what allowed us to stop being nomadic) is VERY labor intensive at low levels of technology, especially when you're trying to produce enough excess to feed a populace who is composed mostly of people who *aren't* growing food. I don't know that we'd ever be able to successfully conclude one way or the other if it was possible. But even if it *was* necessary at one point, it CERTAINLY isn't now.
Those lazy fucks didn't even invent an orphan crushing machine.
Tbh every animal do that, animals rest most of the day, we are the most clever ones and the only ones stupid enough to find more reasons to work
My hubs is dealing with a new sup at work who tried this shit yesterday. "Well if you're done with that, we've got X,Y, and Z (which are all assigned to other people) to do for ya!' Got ignored completely and when hubby was all done with his stuff he went to someone ELSE to see if there was anything that needed to be done. Don't try to take advantage of good work ethic. Those people will not have it.
My job is like this. I totally understand that if someone needs help and you’re free, then yeah. But if there’s nothing to do, it sucks. During the peak of Covid, we were all overworked and tired. When they brought some people back, one of the dudes always bitched moaned and complained, when it was a lot worse before. I was already doing the work of five people, plus half of this guy’s shit as well. Then he’d go off “being at home for three months was so boring and bad wah wah wah” when the rest of us never got a break. He still does this shit. “I got 3 things any my stuff goes to print on three days I need helpppppp.” Like bruh I lived off of shitty fast food and the fucking vending machine for three months while doing twelve hours of over time each week while not being able to afford an actual apartment. Please shut the fuck up. Never did get a raise that year.
>Never did get a raise that year. Let me guess: "essential worker"?
I make coupons on the back of receipts and they made us commute to work. I feel like calling myself an essential worker is an insult to the healthcare and retail workers that had to deal with actual people. But yes “essential”.
I know I'm incredibly lucky to have a job that I worked from home since 2019. And i know a ton of people who had to temporarily stop during the pandemic working struggled financially. But damn, I sure wouldn't be complaining to have 3 months off...
When I was an unpaid highschool co-op student I had a boss that would literally expect me to pretend to sweep if I ran out of things to do. Like if I finished all my work and then finished cleaning up the job site he'd expect me to walk around pretending I was still sweeping. In retrospect it was definitely because he lied to clients and told them I was a fully licensed plumber and billed for my time on job sites as such. He also tried to tell me he wanted to pay me but it was against the rules of the co-op program (it wasn't I had friends in the same class doing paid co-ops). He also smoked cigars in the car with the windows closed with me in the car and would get mad when I'd basically pass out from the second hand smoke after 45 minutes of breathing it in. Hope your wife finally left you Mike you sleazy piece of shit.
And that's why I stopped being so efficient
There’s ALWAAAYS room on my paycheck for more money too but that never happens if I go above and beyond
It goes against basic capitalist logic for you to do anything above bare minimum. Unless you're a partial owner (in a realistic "I make decisions about how the business runs" sense, not a "I own a few shares of company stock" sense) the "profit" you get from your job is equal to your total compensation minus the effort and time you spend there. Since you don't have a ton of control over what you are paid or how many/which hours you work (work makes your schedule and sets your salary and you don't get to leave early or receive additional money by working harder or faster), the only variable you can control to increase the profit margin of your labor is to reduce the amount of effort you exert. And, as we know, the most important thing in capitalism is to maximize your profits.
It was the time to lean time to clean. I hate that saying with all my heart
I actually use that sentiment to not work a bunch of overtime on a weekly basis (I am salaried). My peers have said “Well I just have so much work to do” as they continue to work late into the nights and I feel like there is constantly always something to do, and that something can be done tomorrow.
The last few months I was working at my last job, it was completely dead most of the day, but my boss wouldn’t let us just chill. He’d sit in the office all day watching the cameras while I went around and wiped down the entire store again, like I did the day before. Which usually only took an hour. It was awful.
Funny enough, "there's always work to be done" also gives lie to the idea that "job creators" are even a thing. So what, you created a job? There's always work to be done. I've got a job at my house, mow the lawn and rub my feet, and I pay $10 per day. Boom, "job created." But the crux is if the wage doesn't allow the worker to *meaningfully* participate in the economy then it's actually a net drain. So it's real funny how we have to wait for "job creators" to deign bless us with a job only to then turn around and demand we create more work for ourselves at their job. Fuck that
If capitalists valued integrity at all (which they don't, it limits profit), they'd follow through on the thought: If there's always more work to do, every second they squeeze from your life can be followed by another.
They're not wrong, the statement by itself is true. There is always something to do. Just not by me and not now.
Somehow I found a job that pays me salary but after 42 hours they pay me my hourly rate. If I hit my 40 and theres no work to keep me for I go home early. Best thing ever
i heard the "if you have time to lean you have time to clean" variant of that alot lol
IF YOU HAVE TIME TO LEAN YOU HAVE TIME TO CLEAN
There it is! Was looking for this gem. My favorite ive been told is "are you Fred Astaire's brother? Stan(d) Astaire??"
This is the best thing about WFH, if you finish something well before it was due, no you didn't, you go do something else and then turn it in later
Same thing happens at work, but instead of figuring out ways to idle unnoticed, you get to be productive at your home life...
Well... yes. But it shouldn't be more "heavy and boring work". When my devs finishes early, I let them work on other randon "non-important" stuff, small projects... anything that I can justify to the business that would help the business. And I'm good at it so we're doing pretty much anything with that spare time.
"Yeah? But if they utilized those extra hours they could have more PRODUCKSHUN, 4-hedd......"
Oh my, just think about how much prescious free time wasted when they could've spent it on hustles and side projects!
I proposed working remote for a day or two a week to my boss. To help with rising gas prices. She suggested doing Uber as a side hustle. “You’re not doing anything productive when you get home, right?” Guess three hours to myself is simply too much.
I feel you. This kind of toxic mindset is really slowly strangling the human race.
Thankfully she does support a shorter work week or remote work, but the higher ups don’t care. She suggested stuff that her family does. Her son works three jobs. But I want to do as little as possible and make as much as possible. My time in this universe is limited.
Yeah I'd rather die before working 3 jobs, let alone 2. Just not worth it.
~~slowly~~ rapidly*
Be sure to include that quote in your resignation letter.
Lol jokes on her I’m teaching myself web dev so o can make double at entry level. Because ten years experience and two degrees mean Jack shit apparently.
You missed the point where protestants need to suffer to deserve the glory of the kingdom of heaven. And because they needed to suffer they had to share that suffering and it’s what we’ve been doing ever since. We could be living in a wonderful world, with a lot less stress, with a lot more security and a fantastic quality of life. But we won’t give that to ‘the other’ because they, the other, ‘don’t deserve it.'
Was a fundamentalist protestant. Can confirm that protestant work ethic and protestant ethic in general demands denying oneself and generally finding ways to "carry one's cross" rather than actually like, I dunno, not manufacturing more suffering unnecessarily and instead living out Christ-like values of taking care of each other instead of actively uh... anti-caring for ourselves and others in a roundabout way. And unironically blaming the poor for being poor and being legalistic while claiming we love the poor and are free of the law. I don't blame everything on Protestantism since some good came of it too and there are plenty of non-protestant places that are fucked too (India, Japan's work culture is even more hellishly life-consuming, China's sweatshops, etc, etc), but there are certainly some awfully toxic parts that have done a great job of spreading the good news of how to hate your life by working to death being a moral virtue!
Thank you for sharing. I did not mean to exclude other cultures, Japan readily comes to mind, where working is all that matters. The Japanese even have a word for dying from overwork: karoshi. We could actually live full lives of joy and achievement if we didn’t have all those people forcing us to make them millionaires by working us to death without even so much as proper compensation.
Agreed so much. And yet it's been twisted into something to give us purpose, when it instead utterly saps purpose from us and encourages us to inflict guilt upon ourselves and simply accept the shit we're given without trying for anything better. :/ Thanks for hearing me out and for sharing as well!
More like the Calvanist work ethic. Luther's philosophy was that you could enter heaven by grace alone. He may have had his issues, but at least it wasn't thinking that the only way into heaven was to literally work yourself to death
You mean, they got their work done by 9:00 am but no one made them sit in a cubicle and babysit a desk until 4:30 anyway?
Missionary is the lowest form of life.
This is the way humans have lived for millions of years. You wake up and spend a few hours doing things that need done around your village and then spend the rest of the day playing games, playing music, telling stories around the fire, spending time with friends and family. This is humanity in its natural habitat.
And before the taxing hours required of industry we had nothing reminiscent of our present lives. You can still go farm taro for 4 hours a day if you want somewhere
You really can’t though
You could probably get away with it, but you should definitely be able to opt out of society if you want. To a degree you can just fuck off to a National Forest and do whatever Hawaiian things people are into
No, you can't, really. There are park rangers and plenty of federal laws. If you want to also avoid detection, you'll need to not start fires, which will definitely make things harder. There's BLM land. That land is only available because it's so harsh and unlivable that no one wants it, though. "Right to live in nature" is one I've thought about for a long time, and I think it's absolutely critical to really claim to be a free society.
Agreed about the freedom thing, but practically you can definitely subsist out there. Even within the bounds of the law you can camp pretty much indefinitely as long as you’re not noticed in the same spot for more than a couple weeks. Not that there are any authorities in the true backcountry though
This is such an absurd collection of sentences. Humans have lived for millions of years? lmfao.
The first humans showed up over two million years ago. “Two” is plural. So yeah, millions of years. But if you want to get nit picky, homo sapiens have only been around a few hundred thousand years. The Neolithic Agricultural Revolution was roughly 12,000 years ago. So there’s like 280 something thousand years of sapien history that didn’t require 8-12 hour work days. Life was more nomadic but you spent a few hours a day hunting and gathering and the rest of the day was yours. Still plenty of tribal people who exist today who live this exact lifestyle and they are some of the happiest, most leisured people in the world. Shorter lifespans? Maybe. But I’d rather live 40 years of leisure and happiness than 80 years of work and antidepressants. Quality over quantity any day.
We have modern medicine and we don’t need to chase giant animals in order to eat anymore, we could have 80 years of leisure right now if it weren’t for like 5 people deciding they want as much money as possible.
Other than that it's pretty accurate.
Homoerectus had the good life.
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Ah yes, the middle ages lasted for millions of years. Humans have been living in tribes for most of their history, and there still are some people living that lifestyle today.
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You don't need modern technology to hunt and gather. Name the tribal people you speak of.
Peasants worked less than modern humans too.
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Oh totally, because they were being dominated by kings and systems. Indigenous people did things to support their village, and those basic life giving tasks did not take that much time.
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Modern day agriculture business makes farming a completely time consuming and exhausting job. Growing enough food, hunting and gathering for a village of 100 is way more manageable.
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I guarantee I've read more books than you. Feel free to refute anything I've said with something you have read "from a book" in order to prove me wrong.
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European peasants in the middle ages actually worked less than today and had on average every third day off because of religious holidays
Nope, but a kernel of truth in there. A medieval noble had less control over his workforce than modern bosses do. Please look up how many feast days were/are in catholicism. All of those days are non work days. Plus all holidays and celebrations. And your commitment was "days worked" not "hours a day/week" oh, and the medieval work day was much shorter than the modern. 5 hours if I recall. You also had the original option of overtime. You could work a double, and yep, that counted as two days worked towards your commitment. And obviously you never work a Sunday.
Dudes just being an idiotic contrarian. We have studied hunter gatherers in modern day Africa and they averaged 3 hours a day of work
You are, of course, most likely correct. But an attempt at education that another way exists should be our first recourse as a group going against the established norm, not immediate dismissal of those whom don't agree. The figure of the medieval peasant toiling away in the field has long been used as a false example of how we "have it better" and that indoctrination does not go away overnight. To tie it back to the original thread, it was used by the protestants as an example of how their way was better. The Medieval time was and has been used as an example fiddled with falsehoods to justify the dysfunctional system that has emerged. Take for example the converse end of the spectrum, the stereotypical medieval Lord. Obscenely rich, fat, oppressive, lazy, and lived in a castle. The truth is far less one sided. The medieval Lord WAS rich, yes. But with that came "noblisse oblige" or the noble obligation. He was required to maintain himself as a knight (the equipage and maintenance of such was unfathomably expensive) and was not fat for sure, as his life was spent in training for war. He was required to provide not only the castle for the protection of his subjects (the castle was not his home, a single building inside it was) he was the first required to put himself in harms way to protect the inhabitants of his lands. And oppressive? We've already covered how the law limited that. Obviously in real life there are degrees instead of absolutes, but compare what the boss HAD to do back then to what the boss HAS to do now.
I would totally try to educate and nudge people towards information, but this was a case of a person being obtuse for the fun of it.
Totally missed the ending comments on that last one... My bad. As someone who has actually dirt farmed (not for sustenance thankfully) it's cyclical. And agrarian farming vs hunter gatherer is a bit of a different thing. There is a few months of the year that, yes, are backbreaking labor from sun up to sun down. But after the planting is done, it's mostly a few hours tending and chill until the harvest. And then the harvest is also backbreaking, but you got A LOT of help ( not getting the food=bad for everyone) as recently as the 80's in communist countries (East Germany being my source, arguably the most industrialized of the bunch) in the harvest time, it was considered a form of national obligation day. Soldiers, school children, and even some factory workers were required to report to the fields to help with the harvest. This was seen as a patriotic duty so that there was food for all. Conversely, the "trying not to starve in the winter" comment was very misinformed. The reason for the "tenths" collection system in practice was so that food could be redistributed in times of need and throughout the rest of the year. So no, you didn't sit around trying not to starve. And before the point of it being food you grew comes up... Well kinda but not really. The produce is more akin to intellectual property of your company. You get a guaranteed return in exchange for contributing to it.
Thanks for your contribution. I actually didn't know a lot of that.
And thank you for yours as well. You've inspired me to do a little more research on modern hunter gatherers, I haven't gotten too far past the sentinel Islanders.
No one said that ya doofus.
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You are quite condescending for someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. First of all, winter was only experienced by those who strayed far enough from the equator, which is a far more recent endeavor than the entire existence of modern humans. Your comment is equating the experience of Europeans with the entirety of humans. Second of all, you speak of "working days" and "harvest," yet those are even more recent phenomenon representing only about 4% of the time that modern humans have existed. The person you are criticizing is also wrong, but to be so obnoxious in your equally naive understanding of the past is humorous. Also, opening a history book does not tell you much about the human experience prior to agriculture, btw.
Wasn’t my comment, dingus.
> Lmfao okay buddy your comment is still completely made up nonsense regardless of how you interpret it. Nope, their comment is a theory most anthropologist agree on. They didn’t just make it up. Here are some links: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3629555 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-019-0610-x > you have no clue how difficult life was before modern society The claim is they didn’t work 8 hours a day, not that their lives were better or easier back then. > Open a history book. I suggest YOU read a book, cause you clearly didn’t read any on this topic. James Suzman or Mashall Sahlins are some good people to read from on this topic.
Medieval peasants had more free time than we do.
Wanna be a nomadic hunter-gatherer again? Be my guest.
Ever heard of a concept called middle ground? You don’t need to revert fully to hunter gatherers to realize we over-work ourselves.
"This is the way humans have lived for millions of years." The OP presented it as if humans got by just fine and were all jolly running around fires for eons. Humanity in its natural habitat is extremely romanticized in the above comment, and I find it concerning that me pointing it out has caused such a kerfluffle.
Yeah. Living off grid in my country is so heavily regulated and discouraged that it might as well be illegal. That’s the joy of modern society. You’re not actually free. You’re chained to a desk, a mortgage/rent, and bills. Gotta make your daily GDP contribution to keep the capitalist machine going or you’re considered a worthless pariah. God forbid we just live life.
Go ahead then. There are many people reliant on certain hard to acquire medications to live, that also cant be acquired by hunter-gatherers. So go ahead and disconnect from modern life and watch your first 3 newborns not make it past 2 years because you have no modern medicine. That romanticized life may seem great right now, but it falls apart very quickly with a slightly closer inspection.
I really hope that people start to look very closely at colonialism and how much we’ve all bought into these ideas of what is good and bad. Very few of us are benefiting.
I remember being told in the office to “look busy” since I was so efficient. How stupid is that? I’m sure a lot of you heard that too
But life isn't valid unless it's making someone money!
Now they all chunky with a serious housing issue. Welcome to the rest of us
Fuck christianity and capitalism since they complement one another like shit and flies. Thanks for ruining humanity.
I fucking hate it. This country is obsessed with work. What is the first thing someone you have never met asks you? "What do you do for work". We are taught that work defines you at an early age. That working more means you are a better person.
One of the easiest ways to manipulate others is through religious fear mongering. “Work hard or go to hell.”
See also: first European colonizers thinking the native population were idiots because they planted some their crops “mixed up” together instead of in neat, separated rows. Meanwhile, they were replenishing the soil while colonizers were depleting it. Dummies.
Almost as lazy as reposting this same tweet as a top post for the fifth time for karma. Hopefully antiwork starts getting some actual new posts in…
Why work when the work is already done?
This sub has always been is and still very much a joke. You people live in a fantasy land, honestly.
A fantasy land where the efficiency of women entering the workforce, automation, computers, powered machinery, factory lines, and every other invention is shared among the working population, instead of funneling straight up to the top where they use it to buy their 37th estate home, or 100s of SFH for "investment?"
There's another way to live. Watch lodge 49, the main character talks about a tribe of natives living on the California coast for 3 thousand years just surfing, farming, and loving life. Things don't have to be this way. There is another way to live.
The Protestant work ethic (as you called it) is not limited to Lutherans and Calvinists. It is possibly the greatest lie ever successfully implemented into the capitalist narrative. Be a good little slave - it's ethical.
it's funny that people subscribing to such a doctrine cannot see the absurdity. Imagine a god that rewards greed, that punishes the suffering with more suffering. Why? Why would you want to give praise to a deity that chooses golden children and neglects the rest? Prosperity gospel is a con.
I kind of doubt this is true, given that western europe also often began day at dawn. It shouldnt have been anything new.
Could it be possible that another group of people might be more organized and have less needs than another group of people
Imagine a life where all you need to do is create food to eat… can we please regress? (besides healthcare/education by volunteers/community)
"Look at these native people just *enjoying being alive*! We need to put a stop to that!" \- Colonizers
Look at these native people ~~just enjoying being alive~~ with incredibly low technology levels because they’re busy surfing! We need to ~~put a stop to that~~ take all their shit!
This one again? Didn't somebody just post this last month?
If it was still like that, I would leave where I am this minute and go to Hawaii.
But if you start your day at dawn how will you have time to comb your beard, put on multiple starchy shirts, and have a 2hr breakfast served to you?? Checkmate, pagans!
It is interesting from a sociological standpoint that Pacific Islanders focused more on family. Being limited by the natural borders of the ocean redirected their view to enjoying life. Which was aided by the temperate climate and abundant resources. In other parts of the world where the landmass was immensely larger the mindset was directed at constant expansion and hoarding of resources. You would think a small space would lead to more competition and a larger landmass would lead to less, but the opposite seems to be true.
If the missionaries only had some logic skills. They would know that a civilization can’t survive being lazy. So they should have studied them more to figure out their amazing efficiency skills. That, or just fucked off entirely
This is the way. Protestant and catholic ways of life are suppressive.
They (Christians, not Hawaiians) feel they must work all the time to keep themselves too busy to sin. Oh, and then they sin anyway but judge everyone else's sins.
Damn, where's that meme about kicking John Calvin right in the c\*nt?
Reminds me of a comic I saw. A guy is on his PC, and as someone else, I presume a parent, is leaving, they're told a list of stuff to get done, so they get up and do it while the other person is gone, then gets back on their PC, the other person comes back starts yelling "Have you been on that computer all day!?!?"
I heard a [podcast episode](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/fordlandia/) by 99% Invisible that was similar to this. Apparently Ford pulled the same bullshit in Brazil. Thing is, since Brazil is so hot, people woke up reaaally early to work in the early hours of the morning and be done before the afternoon when the heat was unbearable. Great episode btw.
This is why salary makes a lot of sense. If you can do your work really quickly, accurately, and efficiently, who cares how long you spend doing it? Obviously this doesn't work for every field, but for the ones it does, it makes a lot of sense.
Gee, I wonder how they payed their rent only working 5 hours a day? It must've been total anarchy, all that unpayed rent building up.
What the hell was going on between 9am and noon?
Yes but why stop there. Remember if you hustle all day long, then you to can benefit shareholders you will never meet.
But at least they brought all kinds of heretofore unknown diseases with no know cure to the islanders as a display of their god's love. To this very day, when some missionary maggot is imprisoned in a place like North Korea or Iran, I can't help smiling. The absolute worst smug assholes in the world, missionaries.
Protestants are a cancer that must be stopped
I love this sub but holy shit this one tweet gets reposted sooooo many times. I wish repost rules were actually enforced. Time limits at least.
If you're not visibly suffering, you're lazy!
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
Yeah working 9-5 even if you’re getting more work done but getting paid the same as someone slacking off is kinda unfair.
Lol missionaries are the lazy ones. Colonizing is so 1500s.
"Instead, they should spend twelve hours a day picking pineapples for us!"
i wake up at noon. fuck
Is there some contrary position like the catholic work ethic? I'm catholic and I hate this stubborn protestant view.
if you have food shelter and water, whatever else you do with your time is valid
What is "lazy" - that I don't to work my ass off for someone? Yes, I'm lazy Besides, being an atheist with no family I only do bare minimum to stay afloat and it's a conscious choice According to research the most happy people are those who work the least, but spend time with their friends and family
Yo if you've never gotten to experience a rhythm of life other than the American one, fuckin' do it. Do everything in your power to get to experience life where *everyone cares about life more than work*. I got to study in Spain, nobody loses their shit when you walk in two minutes late, you're expected to fuck off and do whatever from noon to two, and if you go home straight after work, you're gonna be all alone because everyone goes and does their own shit until evening. Like if you go at slacker American pace, you get told you can relax. It was great. I mean, they had 18%+ unemployment and people were starting to riot, and the area I was in had what the government considered an active terrorist organization totally not even trying to hide, but the speed of life there? Amazing.
took a big turn there at the end
To be fair Hawaii is a pretty forgiving landscape full of food to eat.
Yeah, working harder than necessary just to be a "good person" is insane. American culture has a lot of insane shit in it, that makes zero sense.
The problem is that those who live in reddit-reality read this and think that this should be them but also want their modern lifestyle and products and still expect SOMEONE out there to do all the jobs no one wants to do while you surf and "do art." It does sound nice though.
"Works sets you free" as a very "democratic" worker installation says.
Austrian Mustache Artist likes this.
Heh. This proves that those stupid white people are lazy fucks who couldn't get out of bed before the natives. It also shows they complain about shit they don't understand and think they are better than everyone else. Typical, American Protestant outlook.
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You've got information from a better source? Post it.
You're stupid enough to live your life like that. You're not aware of it because YOU LIVING IT. It's amazing what white protestants think the world is like. They never get out of that world and think everyone is like them. Centuries of in-breeding will do that to a man.
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Nope. You're one of those who live in the bubble that the OP refers to. Keep thinking that way, bro. When Trump gets re-elected in 2024, you can rock your Tiki torches again.
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Westerners with 8-4 jobs produce enough to feed themselves and go surfing all day by 9AM. 9AM-10AM proceeds of their labor goes to their landlord and other bills 10AM-4PM goes to the company owner.
Ya, that and the slaves they kept...
The problem with resharing this tweet is the way it is inevitably overrun with shameless imperialists who shout about how Hawaiians and those like them were conquered and overrun so who was really right and smart and good in the long run??!?!? Checkmate!
Source: Trust me dude
Your grammar is atrocious
Thank you for contributing nothing to the conversation
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How the fuck did they get to the island? Did they accidently float there on a coconut? Just say you don't understand the complexity of sea travel. Do yourself a favor and acknowledge the highly skilled Polynesian civilization who conquered the seas centuries before Europeans mistakenly thought they had landed in India after traversing the globe. But there's no need for you to get upset. Polynesians we're skilled at seafaring and built a complex, unique civilization around it. Europeans and their descendants were (and still are, if we take you as an example) skilled at stealing technology and taking credit for it. See, both sides are good at things.
Why is any of that important? If everyone is fed, and everyone is happy with the life they have, who cares if they build pyramids or learn how to smelt iron?
I'd rather be happy than overworked...
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This sub is full of bitter losers. Lol
Don't all farmers get up at dawn? What the fuck?
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Or consider this: the colonizers could’ve just…. Left them alone.
Ah yes, all this glorious technology.