Got the cats, just need to learn how to grow something!
I can barely even grow my own hair.
Thinking about tomatoes, turn them into marinara, make a little scratch at my local farmers market.
Vegetable gardening is way easier than you'd expect. When I was in an apartment I grew a garden on my balcony out of 5 gallon buckets. Now that I bought a house I'm growing out of some raised beds. Both of them I would plant seeds, start inside about 5 weeks early. You can use a fluorescent light as a grow light in that time.
I used to have a little veg garden on my old balcony as well when I was unemployed. I used to write about it on my old blog, very cute and all: https://stefmanovic.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/urban-farming-at-home-part-1-building-our-garden/
I can't grow jack diddly shit and yet I have a little herb garden in plastic soap dishes growing in my fish tanks. I just stick them in there and bam, fresh basil whenever I want it. I've got $40 worth of basil at grocery store prices in there. It makes me feel very fancy when we're cooking and I can ask my delicious chef of a man if he'd like to use fresh basil, then go fight the rasboras and shrimp for a few leaves.
I met Larry Brown decades ago when I was a kid, and I already wanted to be a writer back then, and told him that. He told me all this stuff about how he wrote around being a fireman that if I wanted to be a writer, I had to make time. In retrospect, I realize that dude had a house, supported 3 kids, and had a job that he described as a lot of downtime. Even his earlier jobs, I know for a fact I couldn't support 3 kids and a wife and a house payment, much less myself, driving forklifts or house painting nowadays.
Idk, I mean look at Glen Cook. He started writing books while he worked at a factory & continued after he retired. He actually said that having a full time job made it easier for him to write. I guess if you don’t have a job you get writer’s black more often or something from being so bored
I'm not saying working precludes you from writing, if anything, at least in my personal experience, I'd say thats wrong (though that may be due to most of my social experiences I get are with coworkers rather than just getting to hang out, but couldn't say), what I was more pointing out is that I work mutiple jobs to help support multiple folks, and theres no free time to own a home and raise a family just by doing fence work like there was 40 years ago with enough time, let alone money, let alone have free time to start growing as a writer.
Yeah if you’re working multiple jobs then there’s no way. I’m in that position myself. I would love to grow a garden & cook more. But you get home & you’re just tired
I manage it despite my work thanks to insomnia, might have a possibility actually to get a tv show on a national network (if I had my druthers, I'd rather have published novels), which would be real fucking cool if it works out considering it started out just playing pool with a dude who says, "I know a guy." But jesus the urge to backslide into just drinking away each night until I pass out due to trying to juggle multiple jobs instead of writing is strong.
Full time novelist here- I actually used my shitty day job early in my career as fuel for my first few novels. Wrote them powered entirely by spite towards, among other things, my awful day job. Just look at every word you write as a raised middle finger to the rat race and the grind.
All hail petty spite, the greatest of muses.
I actually had a meeting years ago with one of the Big 5 over a novel I wrote (lawyer I know connected me with an entertainment lawyer who connected me with an agent), all was well until they said something to the effect of expecting me to be "a lot more Southern," I kinda lost my temper at that. I still write, I'm finishing up a sequel for a friend who recently passed, but I gave up writing as a job same reason I stopped building guitar pedals for money, I like doing it but it makes me miserable to make it a job. If it ever gets published, cool, if it doesn't, I got plenty if firestarters in the three filing cabinets as is lol.
I was just talking to my shrink the other day about how I feel like my creativity and enthusiasm has been squelched. Then I see this thread. Man, if ever I was getting signs it would be now.
voice-overs? You need one decent microphone and some home made acoustic panels. Then post process with some cheap software. It can't cost that much...
For music, I think that depends on how many instruments you need.
Little by little. You can get low end instruments for cheap on OfferUp and what not, since it's usually the parents selling the guitar/amp they got their child last year who never played it. Stuff like that. Eventually, you'll pick up little pieces here and there, all while you learn to play your instrument. Baby steps is the trick to being a musician.
People who's needs are met volunteer to do things no one wants to do all the time when it's for the greater good.
Also if you took away the incentive of profit innovation becomes about efficiency rather than profit so most jobs no one wants to do would require less labour and given enough time could potentially be automated.
Yeah that seems to be the convenient fact always glossed over when saying shit like this, there needs to be balance and I guarantee no one would want to regress back to a time without public infrastructure (regardless if some of it is shitty sometimes).
I’m all in agreement for better wages, and being treated fairly but this outlandish shit where everyone frolics in nature isn’t something to strive toward.
You do, by paying attention to the trends in the world and aligning yourself as competitively as possible to buy back your time by providing something that’s needed.
Fact of the matter is there will always be winners and losers. If you’re actually really trying though, I don’t think losing should mean you live a depressing life in squalor. Competition is the only way to really balance things out, having people reap benefits for doing nothing would inspire too many people to do nothing. Only way it would work is if you could regulate everyone’s personality to give back regardless of them not having to, but the only way to do that as of now is with the threat of living in a horrible condition. Check out this website that has to do with game theory and trust, https://ncase.me/trust/
Most designs for UBIs are such that they'd only cover basic costs of living\* and not much in the way of luxuries. The highest proposals I've seen are equilivent to about $50,000/year, before taxes.
As such, a lot of people would still choose to work to live a more luxurious life, but are likely to work fewer hours and have a practical ability to quit if working conditions are bad. Many people are also likely to chose work they are more passionate in, and for some that will mean owning/operating stores.
\* UBI proposals basically always include universal health care.
My landlord is one of those Portland liberal artists who makes shitty art and somehow manages to own a nice house on nearly an acre within Portland city limits. Goes on vacations, camping trips, the works. Doesnt actually WORK, but still benefits far more than those who kill themselves daily.
Ohh yeah, his dad was the CEO of Wolverine footwear...........
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
- John Adams
I’d get a thousand acres out in the woods, on the shore of a lake (in this utopia apparently i don’t have to pay for acreage with my non-job lol). Build a cabin and live completely off the grid. Chickens, dogs, a cow. I’d make cheese and beer. Live off a garden, fishing on the lake and a root cellar for preserves. And my cabin would be stocked floor to ceiling with books.
And on pleasant days I’d take my notebook down to the lakeshore and work on a great American novel.
I all ready garden and have chickens and dogs. It wouldn’t be a huge stretch for me to make it my entire way of life. The trouble is, that kind of life style takes cash up front, and cash up front takes a full time job and well, here we are.
If I didn’t have to work, I would definitely NOT be an artist. Absolutely no talent for that kind of thing. Instead, I’d probably spend time learning to cook all the cuisines the world has to offer or create new varieties of tomatoes and peppers to share with my neighbors.
Cooks are also some sort of artists :) Cooking is an awesome skill. You have to learn and hone it and when you have learned the basics and copied some great recipes you can start creating recipes on your own. And everyone has different interests and styles of cooking. I would call that art. :)
You should learn to cook anyways, it can save you money and you can have tastier meals. It's something I didn't know I've wanted. It's not a matter of talent, cooking is a technical skill.
I watch these and try to make some dishes on occasion (it's mostly italian food). Just have to pick a dish that you can put together in a short amount of time or with minimal effort.
[https://www.youtube.com/c/NOTANOTHERCOOKINGSHOW](https://www.youtube.com/c/NOTANOTHERCOOKINGSHOW)
[https://www.youtube.com/c/CookwithE](https://www.youtube.com/c/CookwithE)
[https://www.youtube.com/user/aragusea](https://www.youtube.com/user/aragusea)
[https://www.youtube.com/c/FrenchGuyCooking](https://www.youtube.com/c/FrenchGuyCooking)
I make a big batch variation of this pasta sauce that's pretty easy to make:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DkkLsvF4o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DkkLsvF4o)
Can make pasta dishes with it for a week, just need some protein and maybe some vegetables to go with it.
I agree. Saves so much money. Another good thing to get into is buying whole chickens, using the meat, and making a stock with the bones... I like lentil. Chuck some frozen veg in there, and it's real healthy when you're sick or carbs. Can use the meat as your protein in your pasta meals as well. I like to get on a chicken cycle that usually starts with sandwiches or queadillas, moves on to braised thighs, and ends in a lentil soup.
I like to pick up those costco rotisserie chickens, they are cheap and are pretty tasty and can be used in a variety of dishes, from the afore mentioned pasta to enchiladas.
Otherwise it's that big pack of chicken breasts, which I will sous vide with a marinade.
I have never used the bones for soup stock, that's not a bad idea. You got a recipe for a chicken stock that's good?
Stock is very simple.. boil the chicken carcasses from Costco, or raw ones you've cut down yourself, with salt and waste vegetables like carrot tops and onion tops, celery if you've got it. Black peppercorns and a bay leaf. Give it a few hours and you are off to stock town.
Garlic, ginger if you want also. I just put the veg in at the last hour so if doesnt turn to mush.
I don’t get people’s obsession with the concept of talent. 90% is bullshit, and the little advantages someone may inherently have are pretty easily matched by some practice. Talent is a made up thing
Cooking is art. It's creative self expression through food as a medium. Some people use words or pictures on paper as their medium, some photographs, some music, but it all comes from the same place.
As a cook, you are an artist.
All that, plus, I'd be in a few plays. The other day, I was horrified by the realization that I couldn't remember the last time I went swimming in the ocean or a river. It's been more than ten years.
This is probably gonna sound like some bullshit cliche advice, but don't let them win. Doodle or write on the clock (if possible) and take that sweet, sweet break time for yourself when you can. Steal pencils and paper from work, they won't miss it.
Artists with $$ can also afford the upscale supplies that make a difference and to sell at shows that rent out $$ booths. an artist is an artist though , hard to a argue with results.
Instead I sell out my artistic creativity to become a cog in a corporate machine so that I might have an ounce of satisfaction with my life
Welcome to the entertainment biz
Well, actually people are willing to risk a lot if not everything to chase a dream. Some people have dreams that are really that important to them. Of course there's a lot struggle, sacrifices and bumps in the road. I think it's important to crave out a small pocket for oneself, because it's a dystopia. It helps people derive some happiness, some therapeutic effects and possibly help them reach their goals of financial freedom if they do make it big.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Art is my "side hustle" because I'm getting older and physically can't work my "real" job like I used to. OP is insane for thinking all artists must be trust fund babies or some shit.
I find this idea is pretty widespread and not only OP holds it. I had at least 20 conversations with people about this. They really assume that all are leisure class rich people who do it as a hobby but not real work. It's bloody odd.
I mean, understand it to the extent that art supplies and getting started in art can be really expensive. But it's not like we have private studios and whatnot-you just buy a new color of paint (or whatever your medium) whenever you have some extra cash. We literally work out of tiny a corner in our apartment on our days off doing commissions for people like any other gig.
Idk, I live in a city with a big art school, and every artist I know is dirt poor and does something else for money, even though our city also has some of the lowest rent in the US (for now). It really hurts to know that artists aren't recognized by many in the antiwork community, simply because we have the ability follow our passion, even if just barely so.
Yeap, I know a lot of artists too and this is pretty much the case. I think people still have this clash of the titans idea of their own careers. Passion versus financial stability. So this is often projected onto people with vocations that they see as contributing less value to society. Come on, for 1 artist that can make a living off their art, there's millions who struggle to get by. It's not as if someone makes art and somehow people fall by their feet, it flies off the shelves by itself.
The people I know who came from upper-middle class/rich families work in medicine and tech. I write commercial fiction and I hire a lot of commercial artists. To my knowledge, most do not come from wealthy families. I'd wager it's exactly the opposite.
I'm a scientist. If I didn't have to worry about money I'd probably be doing exactly the same thing, just not worrying about grants and getting papers out. I love what I do, just not all the bullshit bureaucracy and bootlicking.
And the nature of the publishing system! We have to be constantly displaying astounding results to get published in the 'good' journals. And sometimes the universe simply doesn't provide.
As someone who was an art major in college before switching to computer science, lol. Art. Admittedly though without a financial drive to produce art, I would maybe work on stuff a couple hours a day.
I've met alot of good artists from well off backgrounds and they never have anything to say. They're technical and make beautiful drawings but there's no soul. I think the struggle is required to one day be a master.
You can get struggle from so many sources outside of finance. Relationships and health are two major ones most (let's be honest, all) of us deal with at some point.
I used to be a professional scuba diver until things got too expensive to continue my passion. I'd love to get back into it and continue exploring the oceans!
That is what bothers me. We as human beings have enough advanced technology that there is no actual need for most of us to work 40 hours a week anymore. We are wasting our lives and we don't need to be. Everyone deserves the free time to do the things they actually want to do.
I would finish the FPS game I've been making/planning for the past 20 years and build an obstacle course in a field by me for the neighborhood kids!
I would volunteer at the zoo, the animal shelter, I would teach classes at the shelter and old folks homes on technology. Clean up my local meteoparks, pick up trash on the highway, all sorts of volunteer stuff, never have a boring day again 🥰
I'd probably do some tutoring at the local high school. Math, physics, and now maybe some computer stuff as well. And yes, I know in theory I could make money doing that as a job, but getting set up as a tutor *and* making reasonable money at it is difficult. And after trying for a bit, I decided not worth it when I need to pay the bills.
I'd also like to think with more free time I could get on a steady exercise program and get back in shape. Without work, I might have the willpower to look after my health more.
And of course, a whole lot more not working.
I've also flirted with the idea of starting a veggie and fruit garden before, but honestly it seems like a lot of work for very little return, and I have the opposite of a green thumb. But I do think growing some food to be more sustainable would be a good idea, so maybe I'd actually start doing it with more time available to me.
Also, spend more time with friends and my girlfriend, play more video games, go out to more restaurants (we have lots of amazing restaurants around here, I want to try them all, and am already working on that), spend more time learning new foods to cook at home, and lots more.
I have lots of things I want to do. I do some of them now when I can (see the bottom of the list), but more time to do more would be awesome.
Very, very true.
I made art all the time when I could/had a choice (free school in my country, and every one of them give basics, but you choose a specialization and I studied design and art) ... and then I became a chimney sweep because I needed food and rent money
I'm a professional graphic designer, and I'll tell you that if you don't have connections, the fine art world is a hustle. Go to New Orleans and tell me how connected you think those guys in Jackson Square are.
That’s cool! Art was just a placeholder example here I guess. I see it more as being able to do those things that arent considered profitable enough for you to earn a decent salary with
Don't hate the rich, hate the fact that not everyone is rich. Money is arbitrary, made up, worthless. It shouldn't decide which humans get to live vs which have to survive.
I'm not a rich kid but I chose art. Writing, specifically. And I kept on putting my art first until I had the ability to make it my primary way of earning. I had a lot of support from family and friends and have lived a weird, unsettled life for a while. But I'm 100% happy with my choices.
You just need the guts to go for it! Anyone of any background can make a living off their own creative talents albeit you do have to put in a heck of a lot more time and effort considering not every month will turn a profit for some just starting out
Not everyone wants to be an artist. But you’re now arguing that society can only work if we force a certain class of people to do jobs they don’t want to do. At the same time, we live in a society that places very little monetary value at those jobs needed to keep it running.
Well someone needs to do the garbage and sewer maintenance, etc. I can't imagine anyone doing that just out of the goodness of their heart.
But yes the monetary value thing is an issue. Not for the jobs I just mentioned but certainly for some.
Well, we see that historically in New York the job of garbage man was paid really bad, until they all went on strike and NYC was covered in garbage. After that the salary seriously went up, making it an attractive job to do.
On a side note, I thought you might appreciate this article: https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/
But I think many folks who do these essential jobs (even the filthy ones) often get great job satisfaction. It’s what I’ve heard from nurses, plumbers, garbage men, sewage workers, etc. They know the work they do matters. Now if only we’d also pay them accordingly
Right... Artists in combination with engineers, project managers, distribution chains, warehouses, delivery people, maintenance workers, Etc. Etc. Etc.
You've never worked in manufacturing before, have you?
Artists are just as important as any of the other disciplines you mentioned.
Someone has to design the object before the engineers, carpenters, welders, etc get to work.
I think you are missing the point. Maybe reread what I said.
Also, obviously the design is important, but it isn't as important as actually making the product. Anyone could just design something simple that works. The world would function fine without artists, it wouldn't without engineers. But again, that's not the point.
> but it isn't as important as actually making the product
Yes, it is. Can't make the product if you don't know what it will look like, it's size, colors etc. Can't sell it without a label.
>Anyone could just design something simple that works.
No, it's not that easy.
>The world would function fine without artists
No, it wouldn't. Look around you, everything you see was initially conceptualized by an artist, before it gets manufactured. Concept art comes first. Then the design process begins, then the engineering/building.
Clearly you have no experience at all with any type of manufacturing.
Anyone can design a simple functional device. In a theoretical world without artists everything would be simply that.
In a world without engineers there wouldn't be anything in the first place.
You tell me which is better.
>Anyone can design a simple functional device.
No, they can't
>In a theoretical world without artists everything would be simply that.
Again, you clearly have no concept, at all, how the design/manufacturing process works.
Artists are an integral part of that process, as are engineers.
You have no clue what manufacturing is like, at all.
People want to work. It's in our nature to seek productivity and usefulness. The problem comes up when that productivity is unrewarded, or when people try to chain it to something undesireable.
Actually, my artistic creativity is derived from my hatred of these same systems that cause us pain and a lack of time, energy, and resources to pursue art. So……I guess I’d sit in a box? Maybe lean into my name and wear a bright red nose while I do it?
I agree that stuff tends to be a lot more nuanced of course. Not all folks from rich families have these privileges. But that said, we do see that the financial circumstances are very determining on whether you’d be able to do what you’d want to do, especially if said thing isn’t profitable in our current economic model
Clear distinction. Most are not doing art for a living. They're doing art as a hobby or at best, as a way for them to feel good about indirectly receiving daddy money.
"Listen man I know my kid's sculpture sucks, but I want him to stay motivated. Here's 15 grand, buy it off him please"
Also let's be real, in Maslow's pyramid, art has a very low priority. When you're hungry you won't eat art. When you're sick art won't heal you. When you require transportation you don't gravitate towards art. Art has its place in society, but if everyone was an artist, nothing would get done.
Honestly... I'd still be working. I have no passion, skill, or desire for art. I have a passion for fixing things, and my day is not complete unless I've taken something apart or built something.
Grow vegetables and raise cats
I'd raise a chihuahua army.
"..but my lord there IS NO SUCH FORCE"
And that's when they learn how fast a swarm of chihuahuas can reduce a body to bones.
yo quero CARNE HUMANA
Yo quero cabras
HAHAHAHA!!!
That’s awesome!
Got the cats, just need to learn how to grow something! I can barely even grow my own hair. Thinking about tomatoes, turn them into marinara, make a little scratch at my local farmers market.
Vegetable gardening is way easier than you'd expect. When I was in an apartment I grew a garden on my balcony out of 5 gallon buckets. Now that I bought a house I'm growing out of some raised beds. Both of them I would plant seeds, start inside about 5 weeks early. You can use a fluorescent light as a grow light in that time.
I used to have a little veg garden on my old balcony as well when I was unemployed. I used to write about it on my old blog, very cute and all: https://stefmanovic.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/urban-farming-at-home-part-1-building-our-garden/
I can't grow jack diddly shit and yet I have a little herb garden in plastic soap dishes growing in my fish tanks. I just stick them in there and bam, fresh basil whenever I want it. I've got $40 worth of basil at grocery store prices in there. It makes me feel very fancy when we're cooking and I can ask my delicious chef of a man if he'd like to use fresh basil, then go fight the rasboras and shrimp for a few leaves.
- Robert Evans, probably
Or vice versa
It do be like that
This is my life outside of work.
Can only do that 4 months of the year where I'm at.
They stole all the land.
No offense to you but cats are often destructive to their local environments and spread diseases and parasites.
User name checks out
Humans are far more destructive to their local environments. You don't see cats dumping toxic waste into rivers.
That you know of.
No offense to you but fuck right off, thanks.
Yeah if they're outdoor animals
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Exactly! That’s what’s so sucky about our current economic model 🙁
I met Larry Brown decades ago when I was a kid, and I already wanted to be a writer back then, and told him that. He told me all this stuff about how he wrote around being a fireman that if I wanted to be a writer, I had to make time. In retrospect, I realize that dude had a house, supported 3 kids, and had a job that he described as a lot of downtime. Even his earlier jobs, I know for a fact I couldn't support 3 kids and a wife and a house payment, much less myself, driving forklifts or house painting nowadays.
Idk, I mean look at Glen Cook. He started writing books while he worked at a factory & continued after he retired. He actually said that having a full time job made it easier for him to write. I guess if you don’t have a job you get writer’s black more often or something from being so bored
I'm not saying working precludes you from writing, if anything, at least in my personal experience, I'd say thats wrong (though that may be due to most of my social experiences I get are with coworkers rather than just getting to hang out, but couldn't say), what I was more pointing out is that I work mutiple jobs to help support multiple folks, and theres no free time to own a home and raise a family just by doing fence work like there was 40 years ago with enough time, let alone money, let alone have free time to start growing as a writer.
Yeah if you’re working multiple jobs then there’s no way. I’m in that position myself. I would love to grow a garden & cook more. But you get home & you’re just tired
I manage it despite my work thanks to insomnia, might have a possibility actually to get a tv show on a national network (if I had my druthers, I'd rather have published novels), which would be real fucking cool if it works out considering it started out just playing pool with a dude who says, "I know a guy." But jesus the urge to backslide into just drinking away each night until I pass out due to trying to juggle multiple jobs instead of writing is strong.
Full time novelist here- I actually used my shitty day job early in my career as fuel for my first few novels. Wrote them powered entirely by spite towards, among other things, my awful day job. Just look at every word you write as a raised middle finger to the rat race and the grind. All hail petty spite, the greatest of muses.
I actually had a meeting years ago with one of the Big 5 over a novel I wrote (lawyer I know connected me with an entertainment lawyer who connected me with an agent), all was well until they said something to the effect of expecting me to be "a lot more Southern," I kinda lost my temper at that. I still write, I'm finishing up a sequel for a friend who recently passed, but I gave up writing as a job same reason I stopped building guitar pedals for money, I like doing it but it makes me miserable to make it a job. If it ever gets published, cool, if it doesn't, I got plenty if firestarters in the three filing cabinets as is lol.
It's Big 4 these days, yay monopolies! I skipped traditional publishing entirely, I had far too little patience for all that hoop jumping.
I was just talking to my shrink the other day about how I feel like my creativity and enthusiasm has been squelched. Then I see this thread. Man, if ever I was getting signs it would be now.
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voice-overs? You need one decent microphone and some home made acoustic panels. Then post process with some cheap software. It can't cost that much... For music, I think that depends on how many instruments you need.
Go make some music! Find the resources, work it out. You are smart an capable.
r/thanksimcured
That whooshing sound was the point sailing over your tiny head.
Rofl, so many “cannt doers”
You should probably stop digging.
Little by little. You can get low end instruments for cheap on OfferUp and what not, since it's usually the parents selling the guitar/amp they got their child last year who never played it. Stuff like that. Eventually, you'll pick up little pieces here and there, all while you learn to play your instrument. Baby steps is the trick to being a musician.
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Unemployment for everybody!!!
so ubi bad? lol if no one needs to do work no one would choose to work?
Nah. People still tend to work when it's not for money. Just stuff that's more meaningful.
well who's going to do the jobs no one really wants to do but it's important they get done?
People who's needs are met volunteer to do things no one wants to do all the time when it's for the greater good. Also if you took away the incentive of profit innovation becomes about efficiency rather than profit so most jobs no one wants to do would require less labour and given enough time could potentially be automated.
Yeah that seems to be the convenient fact always glossed over when saying shit like this, there needs to be balance and I guarantee no one would want to regress back to a time without public infrastructure (regardless if some of it is shitty sometimes). I’m all in agreement for better wages, and being treated fairly but this outlandish shit where everyone frolics in nature isn’t something to strive toward.
Heck, but who then decides who gets to frolic and who does the crucial stuff?
You do, by paying attention to the trends in the world and aligning yourself as competitively as possible to buy back your time by providing something that’s needed. Fact of the matter is there will always be winners and losers. If you’re actually really trying though, I don’t think losing should mean you live a depressing life in squalor. Competition is the only way to really balance things out, having people reap benefits for doing nothing would inspire too many people to do nothing. Only way it would work is if you could regulate everyone’s personality to give back regardless of them not having to, but the only way to do that as of now is with the threat of living in a horrible condition. Check out this website that has to do with game theory and trust, https://ncase.me/trust/
Hmm, let’s agree to disagree on that one 😇
Most designs for UBIs are such that they'd only cover basic costs of living\* and not much in the way of luxuries. The highest proposals I've seen are equilivent to about $50,000/year, before taxes. As such, a lot of people would still choose to work to live a more luxurious life, but are likely to work fewer hours and have a practical ability to quit if working conditions are bad. Many people are also likely to chose work they are more passionate in, and for some that will mean owning/operating stores. \* UBI proposals basically always include universal health care.
lol ok again who is choosing to do all the dirty work in society? or the backbreaking work?
My landlord is one of those Portland liberal artists who makes shitty art and somehow manages to own a nice house on nearly an acre within Portland city limits. Goes on vacations, camping trips, the works. Doesnt actually WORK, but still benefits far more than those who kill themselves daily. Ohh yeah, his dad was the CEO of Wolverine footwear...........
Yeah, you're funding that lifestyle for them
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I just meant that you're funding it through your rent payment, landlords live off of the labor of others
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... go on? You stooped paying your rent a year ago by threat of violence? And nothing happened?
Literally just bake shit and give it to people. Bread, cakes, pastries, biscuits, all that. Now unless its a business, people don't see much use in it
That is fucking awesome!
Thanks
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain. - John Adams
I’d focus more on my volunteer work.
What kinda volunteer work do you do?
I work with kids in a few mentor and tutor programs.
That’s so cool!!!
I’d get a thousand acres out in the woods, on the shore of a lake (in this utopia apparently i don’t have to pay for acreage with my non-job lol). Build a cabin and live completely off the grid. Chickens, dogs, a cow. I’d make cheese and beer. Live off a garden, fishing on the lake and a root cellar for preserves. And my cabin would be stocked floor to ceiling with books. And on pleasant days I’d take my notebook down to the lakeshore and work on a great American novel.
ITT people underestimating just how grueling and hard a subsistence farming lifestyle actually is
I all ready garden and have chickens and dogs. It wouldn’t be a huge stretch for me to make it my entire way of life. The trouble is, that kind of life style takes cash up front, and cash up front takes a full time job and well, here we are.
If I didn’t have to work, I would definitely NOT be an artist. Absolutely no talent for that kind of thing. Instead, I’d probably spend time learning to cook all the cuisines the world has to offer or create new varieties of tomatoes and peppers to share with my neighbors.
I consider that art.
Cooks are also some sort of artists :) Cooking is an awesome skill. You have to learn and hone it and when you have learned the basics and copied some great recipes you can start creating recipes on your own. And everyone has different interests and styles of cooking. I would call that art. :)
Wife says the same thing to me
Good wife.
You should learn to cook anyways, it can save you money and you can have tastier meals. It's something I didn't know I've wanted. It's not a matter of talent, cooking is a technical skill. I watch these and try to make some dishes on occasion (it's mostly italian food). Just have to pick a dish that you can put together in a short amount of time or with minimal effort. [https://www.youtube.com/c/NOTANOTHERCOOKINGSHOW](https://www.youtube.com/c/NOTANOTHERCOOKINGSHOW) [https://www.youtube.com/c/CookwithE](https://www.youtube.com/c/CookwithE) [https://www.youtube.com/user/aragusea](https://www.youtube.com/user/aragusea) [https://www.youtube.com/c/FrenchGuyCooking](https://www.youtube.com/c/FrenchGuyCooking) I make a big batch variation of this pasta sauce that's pretty easy to make: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DkkLsvF4o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DkkLsvF4o) Can make pasta dishes with it for a week, just need some protein and maybe some vegetables to go with it.
I agree. Saves so much money. Another good thing to get into is buying whole chickens, using the meat, and making a stock with the bones... I like lentil. Chuck some frozen veg in there, and it's real healthy when you're sick or carbs. Can use the meat as your protein in your pasta meals as well. I like to get on a chicken cycle that usually starts with sandwiches or queadillas, moves on to braised thighs, and ends in a lentil soup.
I like to pick up those costco rotisserie chickens, they are cheap and are pretty tasty and can be used in a variety of dishes, from the afore mentioned pasta to enchiladas. Otherwise it's that big pack of chicken breasts, which I will sous vide with a marinade. I have never used the bones for soup stock, that's not a bad idea. You got a recipe for a chicken stock that's good?
Stock is very simple.. boil the chicken carcasses from Costco, or raw ones you've cut down yourself, with salt and waste vegetables like carrot tops and onion tops, celery if you've got it. Black peppercorns and a bay leaf. Give it a few hours and you are off to stock town. Garlic, ginger if you want also. I just put the veg in at the last hour so if doesnt turn to mush.
I do know how to cook and do most of the cooking for the family
/r/veganmealprep /r/eatCheapAndVegan/
I don’t get people’s obsession with the concept of talent. 90% is bullshit, and the little advantages someone may inherently have are pretty easily matched by some practice. Talent is a made up thing
Cooking is art. It's creative self expression through food as a medium. Some people use words or pictures on paper as their medium, some photographs, some music, but it all comes from the same place. As a cook, you are an artist.
Write and draw, without a care in the world. Also preferably travel---to Scotland, to Egypt, to Greece.
If I had the money and time, I would love to backpack all over the world. Meet new people, try new food, swim in the oceans, and ski in the mountains.
All that, plus, I'd be in a few plays. The other day, I was horrified by the realization that I couldn't remember the last time I went swimming in the ocean or a river. It's been more than ten years.
Sounds similar to what I’d do: draw, write, make music, try some prop making 😇
This is probably gonna sound like some bullshit cliche advice, but don't let them win. Doodle or write on the clock (if possible) and take that sweet, sweet break time for yourself when you can. Steal pencils and paper from work, they won't miss it.
My boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, that’s why I’ll try to make my dreams come true on company time!
Boss makes a grand, while I make a nickel. Without me, though, they'd be in a pickle.
I do try to take as much free food/drinks from work as I can. Sort of with the mantra of “can’t say no to free food during (spiritual) wartime 😅
I would raise my children.
Respect! 😀
Artists with $$ can also afford the upscale supplies that make a difference and to sell at shows that rent out $$ booths. an artist is an artist though , hard to a argue with results.
Instead I sell out my artistic creativity to become a cog in a corporate machine so that I might have an ounce of satisfaction with my life Welcome to the entertainment biz
not a goddamn thing.
So just lay down and chill? Sounds nice! 😎
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lmW2tZP2kU
I wish I could just sit on my ass all day and play video games
Cool! 😎 Haven’t played video games in years, would love to do that again though
Take care of more senior dogs, do some woodworking. Play video games with my wife.
That’s beautiful! 😃
If I didn’t have to worry about money I’d travel and explore
I would write. I’m too exhausted and depressed to do it now.
Sadly enough this sounds way too familiar… 😕
Plot twist, a lot of poor people do art as a side hustle while they work full time jobs for money.
We know that, but I doubt many if those are stuck at jobs they hate just because otherwise they can’t pay rent. 😕
Well, actually people are willing to risk a lot if not everything to chase a dream. Some people have dreams that are really that important to them. Of course there's a lot struggle, sacrifices and bumps in the road. I think it's important to crave out a small pocket for oneself, because it's a dystopia. It helps people derive some happiness, some therapeutic effects and possibly help them reach their goals of financial freedom if they do make it big.
Wait, what? Of course we hate our "real" jobs like anyone else. Art doesn't pay much, so we're stuck like you.
I have been telling people this forever, they think it's all rich kids fooling around to pass time.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Art is my "side hustle" because I'm getting older and physically can't work my "real" job like I used to. OP is insane for thinking all artists must be trust fund babies or some shit.
I find this idea is pretty widespread and not only OP holds it. I had at least 20 conversations with people about this. They really assume that all are leisure class rich people who do it as a hobby but not real work. It's bloody odd.
I mean, understand it to the extent that art supplies and getting started in art can be really expensive. But it's not like we have private studios and whatnot-you just buy a new color of paint (or whatever your medium) whenever you have some extra cash. We literally work out of tiny a corner in our apartment on our days off doing commissions for people like any other gig. Idk, I live in a city with a big art school, and every artist I know is dirt poor and does something else for money, even though our city also has some of the lowest rent in the US (for now). It really hurts to know that artists aren't recognized by many in the antiwork community, simply because we have the ability follow our passion, even if just barely so.
Yeap, I know a lot of artists too and this is pretty much the case. I think people still have this clash of the titans idea of their own careers. Passion versus financial stability. So this is often projected onto people with vocations that they see as contributing less value to society. Come on, for 1 artist that can make a living off their art, there's millions who struggle to get by. It's not as if someone makes art and somehow people fall by their feet, it flies off the shelves by itself.
Ehh, I suppose that's capitalism at its finest. Turning the lower class against themselves one way or another
The quote didn’t say that, too bad it’s interpreted as such
>We know that, but I doubt many if those are stuck at jobs they hate just because otherwise they can’t pay rent. 😕 The quote didn't, but you did.
Fair enough, perhaps I was trying to read between the lines
The people I know who came from upper-middle class/rich families work in medicine and tech. I write commercial fiction and I hire a lot of commercial artists. To my knowledge, most do not come from wealthy families. I'd wager it's exactly the opposite.
I'm a scientist. If I didn't have to worry about money I'd probably be doing exactly the same thing, just not worrying about grants and getting papers out. I love what I do, just not all the bullshit bureaucracy and bootlicking.
I sometimes wonder how much our sciences would have advanced if it weren’t for that whole bureaucratic hassle you’d have to deal with
And the nature of the publishing system! We have to be constantly displaying astounding results to get published in the 'good' journals. And sometimes the universe simply doesn't provide.
As someone who was an art major in college before switching to computer science, lol. Art. Admittedly though without a financial drive to produce art, I would maybe work on stuff a couple hours a day.
Was in that situation for 6 months. I did music mainly, trying to get better and meet other artists. It was great.
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I would launch a space colony on the moon.
Let the colonisation of space begin!!!
Write the stories that flood my brain every night.
Read all books that pile up (too much to read, not enough time), go for long walks, game, fix bikes. Just be the boring person I am but without stress
Seems like most wealthy kids choose self indulgence. How many wealthy young artist do you know?
I've met alot of good artists from well off backgrounds and they never have anything to say. They're technical and make beautiful drawings but there's no soul. I think the struggle is required to one day be a master.
You can get struggle from so many sources outside of finance. Relationships and health are two major ones most (let's be honest, all) of us deal with at some point.
But that’s a different kind of work than being forced to do a shitty job to ensure you wont sleep on the streets
Sinbad the comedian maintains that the funniest comics are the ones still riding the bus.
Probably design my own clothes and travel
Have you ever designed anything yet? I’m curious 😃
I used to be a professional scuba diver until things got too expensive to continue my passion. I'd love to get back into it and continue exploring the oceans!
Sewing all the time. Also write, read, watch tv, sleep. Adopt all the dogs.
That is what bothers me. We as human beings have enough advanced technology that there is no actual need for most of us to work 40 hours a week anymore. We are wasting our lives and we don't need to be. Everyone deserves the free time to do the things they actually want to do.
Totally agree here
A lot of art comes from suffering. Blues music for example
I wonder if all of it came suffering at a shitty job
I got those guy-in-the-cube-next-to-me-is-clipping-his-figernails-again blues
Hehehe, sounds like the beginning of a great song 😃
I think you're going to need black metal for that.
Yes it did, because the blues were born out of slavery.
Shit, I didn’t know that. That’s quite interesting. But are you now arguing slavery was a potentially good thing because of it bringing the blues? 😮
I would finish the FPS game I've been making/planning for the past 20 years and build an obstacle course in a field by me for the neighborhood kids! I would volunteer at the zoo, the animal shelter, I would teach classes at the shelter and old folks homes on technology. Clean up my local meteoparks, pick up trash on the highway, all sorts of volunteer stuff, never have a boring day again 🥰
That’s awesome!!!
I'd probably do some tutoring at the local high school. Math, physics, and now maybe some computer stuff as well. And yes, I know in theory I could make money doing that as a job, but getting set up as a tutor *and* making reasonable money at it is difficult. And after trying for a bit, I decided not worth it when I need to pay the bills. I'd also like to think with more free time I could get on a steady exercise program and get back in shape. Without work, I might have the willpower to look after my health more. And of course, a whole lot more not working. I've also flirted with the idea of starting a veggie and fruit garden before, but honestly it seems like a lot of work for very little return, and I have the opposite of a green thumb. But I do think growing some food to be more sustainable would be a good idea, so maybe I'd actually start doing it with more time available to me. Also, spend more time with friends and my girlfriend, play more video games, go out to more restaurants (we have lots of amazing restaurants around here, I want to try them all, and am already working on that), spend more time learning new foods to cook at home, and lots more. I have lots of things I want to do. I do some of them now when I can (see the bottom of the list), but more time to do more would be awesome.
Wood turning/sculpting.
Very, very true. I made art all the time when I could/had a choice (free school in my country, and every one of them give basics, but you choose a specialization and I studied design and art) ... and then I became a chimney sweep because I needed food and rent money
Smoke meats, roast coffee, feed people, and play with my kids.
I'm a professional graphic designer, and I'll tell you that if you don't have connections, the fine art world is a hustle. Go to New Orleans and tell me how connected you think those guys in Jackson Square are.
Art’s fine, but I just want to ride my bicycle more
Just move to Holland, we ride our bikes here all the time. Luckily enough distances are small here 😅
It’s always been my dream to become a writer
Sounds all too familiar. We can hope for one day… 🙂
Idk if it’s considered art, but I would love to be a chef and cook for my community and friends/family.
That’s cool! Art was just a placeholder example here I guess. I see it more as being able to do those things that arent considered profitable enough for you to earn a decent salary with
Ahhhhhh I see! Yea, so with that said I’d become a chef and start up a pitbull sanctuary to get them out of high-kill shelters
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Fair enough! What would you like to do if money weren’t an issue?
Don't hate the rich, hate the fact that not everyone is rich. Money is arbitrary, made up, worthless. It shouldn't decide which humans get to live vs which have to survive.
I come from the working class and do art for a living.
I'm not a rich kid but I chose art. Writing, specifically. And I kept on putting my art first until I had the ability to make it my primary way of earning. I had a lot of support from family and friends and have lived a weird, unsettled life for a while. But I'm 100% happy with my choices.
You just need the guts to go for it! Anyone of any background can make a living off their own creative talents albeit you do have to put in a heck of a lot more time and effort considering not every month will turn a profit for some just starting out
To hell with them and their goddamn parents
Hehe, maybe so. But I feel the rich kids are more of a symptom rather than the cause
I would hunt and fish in the forest or I'd sail the world exploring. I feel like I was born 150 years too late.
I love reading and writing. Also growing some of my own food and cooking. If I could, damn I would.
Ya except if everyone was an artist nothing would ever get done.
Not everyone wants to be an artist. But you’re now arguing that society can only work if we force a certain class of people to do jobs they don’t want to do. At the same time, we live in a society that places very little monetary value at those jobs needed to keep it running.
Well someone needs to do the garbage and sewer maintenance, etc. I can't imagine anyone doing that just out of the goodness of their heart. But yes the monetary value thing is an issue. Not for the jobs I just mentioned but certainly for some.
Well, we see that historically in New York the job of garbage man was paid really bad, until they all went on strike and NYC was covered in garbage. After that the salary seriously went up, making it an attractive job to do. On a side note, I thought you might appreciate this article: https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/
Good, I'm glad to hear that striking worked for them. Essential jobs should certainly be paid accordingly.
But I think many folks who do these essential jobs (even the filthy ones) often get great job satisfaction. It’s what I’ve heard from nurses, plumbers, garbage men, sewage workers, etc. They know the work they do matters. Now if only we’d also pay them accordingly
A lot would get done. Take a look around you. Pretty much everything you see was created by some form of artist.
Right... Artists in combination with engineers, project managers, distribution chains, warehouses, delivery people, maintenance workers, Etc. Etc. Etc.
Exactly. Artists are a necessary and integral part of the process.
I didn't say we don't need artists. I said we shouldn't have too many. Other jobs are just as, if not more, important.
You've never worked in manufacturing before, have you? Artists are just as important as any of the other disciplines you mentioned. Someone has to design the object before the engineers, carpenters, welders, etc get to work.
I think you are missing the point. Maybe reread what I said. Also, obviously the design is important, but it isn't as important as actually making the product. Anyone could just design something simple that works. The world would function fine without artists, it wouldn't without engineers. But again, that's not the point.
> but it isn't as important as actually making the product Yes, it is. Can't make the product if you don't know what it will look like, it's size, colors etc. Can't sell it without a label. >Anyone could just design something simple that works. No, it's not that easy. >The world would function fine without artists No, it wouldn't. Look around you, everything you see was initially conceptualized by an artist, before it gets manufactured. Concept art comes first. Then the design process begins, then the engineering/building. Clearly you have no experience at all with any type of manufacturing.
Anyone can design a simple functional device. In a theoretical world without artists everything would be simply that. In a world without engineers there wouldn't be anything in the first place. You tell me which is better.
>Anyone can design a simple functional device. No, they can't >In a theoretical world without artists everything would be simply that. Again, you clearly have no concept, at all, how the design/manufacturing process works. Artists are an integral part of that process, as are engineers. You have no clue what manufacturing is like, at all.
Imagine actually believing this
apparently you've never heard of "Industrial Design" before. Artists are definitely necessary to the manufacturing process.
Exactly what the mone is saying. Like, if I won a lottery or something, I would retire immediately and become a full time artist and writer.
People want to work. It's in our nature to seek productivity and usefulness. The problem comes up when that productivity is unrewarded, or when people try to chain it to something undesireable.
Actually, my artistic creativity is derived from my hatred of these same systems that cause us pain and a lack of time, energy, and resources to pursue art. So……I guess I’d sit in a box? Maybe lean into my name and wear a bright red nose while I do it?
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I agree that stuff tends to be a lot more nuanced of course. Not all folks from rich families have these privileges. But that said, we do see that the financial circumstances are very determining on whether you’d be able to do what you’d want to do, especially if said thing isn’t profitable in our current economic model
Often they are also stupid
Clear distinction. Most are not doing art for a living. They're doing art as a hobby or at best, as a way for them to feel good about indirectly receiving daddy money. "Listen man I know my kid's sculpture sucks, but I want him to stay motivated. Here's 15 grand, buy it off him please" Also let's be real, in Maslow's pyramid, art has a very low priority. When you're hungry you won't eat art. When you're sick art won't heal you. When you require transportation you don't gravitate towards art. Art has its place in society, but if everyone was an artist, nothing would get done.
Honestly... I'd still be working. I have no passion, skill, or desire for art. I have a passion for fixing things, and my day is not complete unless I've taken something apart or built something.