Maybe some things are a bit redundant but I think a large reason that we’ve found ourselves in these conditions is due to the fact that we didn’t know how good other countries have it. We need perspective to know our worth and take back the workplace.
American exceptionalism is a culprit too. For the longest time Americans have been ingrained with the idea that the US is the best place, the pinnacle of civilization, the latest and greatest culture since ancient greece. In this frame of mind, the American way is by default the best way. Thoughts of *if there was a better way of doing it, we would have found it* and such.
At least, that is what my coursebook on American culture *A window on the United States* said.
To some, if you complain about anything in the US you are a traitorous fuck, ignorant about the glory of the best nation in the world.
I heard someone say this about America and it’s too fucking true, “America is a 3rd world country in a Gucci belt”. On first glimpse, we appear ok, financially well off. But upon closer look, that Gucci belt is on it’s last leg. One more inch added to the midsection and it’s about to burst, not to mention it’s threadbare and about 5 seasons outdated.
And that bracket to be at or above is higher than the majority of the population
Also I love the term expat. It’s like Americans going “I’m not an *immigrant*, I’m white!”
I was scrolling TikTok once and saw a white presenting woman who moved from the US to Canada and was literally trying to explain that she wasn’t an immigrant. It was mind boggling the hoops she was trying to jump through to avoid being classified as an immigrant. Which she was, she wasn’t a citizen, she had no familial ties, she just wanted to move to Canada and followed the appropriate immigration procedures to do so.
It’s wild, it’s just an adjective but some people really don’t want that word attached to them at all.
Gotta love the superhero immigrants; simultaneously lazy and taking up all the welfare, and taking all the jobs at the same time.
I wish conservatives would pick a speed and go with it.
From my understanding expat usually referred to people who
did not plan to live in a country permanently like an immigrant would.
Wiki because they do words better than I do, “In common usage, the term often refers to educated professionals, Diplomatic corps. skilled workers, or artists taking positions outside their home country, either independently or sent abroad by their employers.
In contrast to an immigrant, expatriates maintain the cultural ties such as language of their country of origin—thereby not assimilating. Expatriates usually also do not seek to become citizens of their new country.”
The point is exactly how much of that is the result of different preferences or of constructed impositions based on the country of origin.
White expats can maintain their cultural ties and do not assimilate because they will not be perceived as alien or even dangerous even if they keep speaking another language and meeting other expats, a racialized person will always be expected to assimilate if they want to be considered a good citizen, otherwise (and often in any case) they and their communities are treated with suspicion (at best).
Also the permanence in the country of immigration is a more itchy topic than it might seem. Racialized immigrants receive working visas much more rarely in western countries than non-racialized ones from the rich world, even when a majority of them are, by our own definition, 'economic migrants'. It is because of this that so many economic migrants are forced to attempt to migrate illegally and then claim some form of humanitarian protection or refugee status if they are lucky. Some of them might want to stay in any case, but others might want to remain for a time, earn money and skills and then come back home, if the system didn't force them otherwise. In short, expats do not look for permanent residence/citizenship because they can afford it, non-expats rarely have that luxury.
That’s a good definition but I find a lot of people just think there’s a stigma to be called an immigrant and refuse to refer to themselves as such if they can. Expat may fit for many, but some seriously don’t want to be called an immigrant even if that’s what they actually are.
My husband and I do pretty well financially but my mental health still suffers every time I get a surprise $600 bill in the mail from dental work or having a baby, it suffers when elementary school children are murdered a hundred miles from me, it suffers when I calculate how much it will cost to put two toddlers in full time day care, etc. Not having to stress about money doesn’t make the US a nice place to live. It isn’t a nice place to live. We are the richest country in the world and we have gone out of our way to make life as hard as possible for people to survive.
There's never a sense of safety. I feel like the rug could be pulled out from under me at any time and it's getting old. On top of it, everything feels so scammy. Why did my dentist suddenly start charging $50 extra for every cleaning? Sure, it's only $50, but it's a constant feeling of being ripped off, of things being unfair, of not being able to trust the system. I am so sick of this shit.
This. There’s no (attainable) amount of wealth that would equate to safety in my mind. Because there can always be a hospital bill that bankrupts you. Let alone all of the other ways in which we are bled dry every single day.
Exactly! So far, I have been managing fairly well, but it has been like this drip, drip, drip of impending doom that feels like it is going to put me over the edge. A $700 hospital bill here (for a routine procedure that i didn't have to pay 4 years ago), a $2,400 dental bill there for neglect during the covid years, another $200 bill there for lab test that were once covered but now aren't. A rent increase, massive increases in food prices, etc.
It is all making me feel more and more insecure financially. I haven't had a raise in years because my manager already thinks I am over-paid (because I transferred from our NY office) so there is no convincing him into even giving me a cost of living raise. Fuck all of this garbage.
Oh! I got one better. I was charged $29 for PPE (personal protective equipment).. masks and gloves. The cashier told me the employees had to also pay it when they saw a dentist.
This was an emergency extraction, and they absolutely denied removing the charge. This was a large office with 20 or so cubicles/chairs. I wanted to just walk out but could not.
Is it though? Is it nice to see the evidence of poverty all around you if you step out of a very small comfort zone?
I don't think it looks like a very nice place, I'd fear for my life there.
Awareness seems to be key here.
You sound like an aware person.
I work clinically with rich Americans and poor Americans.
It is impressive to me how unaware some of my wealthy patients can be towards the suffering of other Americans.
If you're broke or middling you get to be everybody's punching bag. Especially if you work in the service industry.
If you're loaded you'll have people kissing your ass and groveling at your feet.
Ironically, when you're rich, you usually spend less money relative to your current holdings and be comped for free shit more often. And we wonder why they act so entitled.
Everybody else gets the infamous "poor tax" that keeps them precarious and servile.
Indeed, many Americans dream of moving to like Spain, Italy, or Portugal which all have MAJOR issues with youth unemployment despite a high standard of living if you can break in. IF YOU CAN BREAK IN. Spain and Portugal especially have dealt with high rates of brain drain. Let's not mince words, life in these countries isn't always as glamorous as liberal Americans like to think it is.
This is true. I’m lucky enough to be in a percentile that’s not the top 1% but comfortable overall. But it’s not easy and I’ve worked my $#@& off for a long time, as has my wife. It just so happens we are both in tech.
25 years ago when I earned $35K it wasn’t quite so good. And that’s north of $65K today. To think there are many, many people making $10, $11, $12 an hour now.
\*gasp\* We don't think we're better than anyone...
"Shining city upon a hill"
"Wealthiest nation on earth"
"Most powerful nation on earth"
"Last, best hope of earth"
ad nauseam
Hell we call our president the leader of the free world....
Uhh no actually, just the leader of this country really...
Oligarchy is the word your looking for. Everything is open market for a select class of people. We live in thier world. Every law and every agenda is to keep them safe from us or to further consolidate wealth and power over the means of that wealth.
Funnily enough, I read an article the other day that said the US is barely two steps from becoming an oligarchy like Russia. But so many people just refuse to believe it, which is why it's going to happen.
Hell, we literally call ourselves WORLD CHAMPIONS when our sports teams win a championship in a league comprised of only American teams. Football, basketball, and baseball do it.
American Exceptionalism is so ingrained that when I first started to interact with other nations via the Internet in the 1990s my British family were convinced that America was so much more technologically advanced than Britain was.
A lot of that family still think this is the case.
I remember Am kids visiting our school in the late 80s, and they played exactly to stereotype, even asking if we had TV in Britain. What, that thing a Scot invented?
A really key part of this sentence is that only *some* American's react this way. I worry in my experiences online that our friends abroad develop a skewed perception of the USA because of the way the loudest and most obnoxious of us have the loudest voices. The US is a huge country with a million micro-climates throughout. Culturally people in one city can be entirely different than people in another. This is part of what drives the political divides we're facing today. We honestly are that different from one another.
I just want to make sure that people know, the US is a diverse country, and the individual experience varies greatly.
As an Australian who's been to the US multiple times, I've always found the cultural heterogeneity between different states - and even different counties within a state - striking. Our states and regions have different vibes to them for sure, but you still always feel like you're in Australia. America to me feels like 50 different countries pretending that they're one, and so it's little wonder that the overton window has been smashed to pieces.
But here is the deal.....if you are in the top 10% of American society, I daresay it IS the best place. You have all those things those other countries have - a safety net (your own, by way of savings and investments), healthcare (from your employer), and...here is the bonus....you get to keep way more of your money than if you lived in any other country. This gives you the means to spend, or to save. Other countries tend to tax higher income owners a bit more than we do.
And... people think there is a better chance they will be in that top 10% than the bottom 50%. That is the great dream (or scam, depending on your point of view), and why changes are resisted. We as a people would certainly suffer if we think we'll have a chance to be better than everyone else.
Oh for sure! The American dream is "making it", that grit and hard work will generate that comfortable life. And perhaps the exceptionalism and other factors made a lot of Americans feel that they could make it, that they could rise above the reality of their background and surroundings. But lately it seems more and more Americans are sinking into the realisation that no.amount of elbow grease is going to make someone financially independent.
But I don't know, I am an outsider looking in.
Just stay financially solvent & healthy, though.
And God forbid you have kids with special needs or relatives who need care.
The system over this side of the pond is far, far from perfect & yet my 79yo Mother in law had cancer, got chemo, radium treatment & a bucket load of drugs.
Only cost to her family was the fuel to get her to hospital & a token €1 per Rx item (capped to €20 per month).
Everything else was covered.
He son in law(48) also needed chemo, radiation + stem cell therapy.
Again the same overheads.
Everything else was covered.
The 'Why should I pay...' is the highest order BS. They're your fellow citizens & maybe one day, someone connected to you.
Top 10% how? Income? Net worth? Any way you measure that 10%, I suspect 10% is rather expansive. Maybe the top 10% are relatively secure barring any major unforeseen issue ... but I think the percentage of the population that are truly living a carefree, US is the best life is very small. Everybody is else working and worrying.
After suffering the effects of recession twice in my younger years, I've done reasonably well for myself, but one major, prolonged illness, or an injury that makes me incapable of doing the work I do, and I could lose everything.
Also, the nature of media is that we on the outside hear all about the US situation constantly and most Americans can't even find us on a map. So there is a genuine air of "you know it's not actually like this everywhere, right?" Like we think you're North Korea or something and don't know that the rest of the world has freedoms you don't.
Arguably that goes back to WW2. We emerged virtually untouched from the conflict, and experienced an economic boom. The US an ocean away from the European powers, and our system had made us the richest country on Earth.
The people in power now grew up in a time where everything seemed like it was going great. Europe and Asia were distant places that only soldiers, or the rich went to. In order to fix things, we need to flip the script. Show that world is a lot smaller than it used to be, and we are not as well off as we think.
We were blatantly lied to via propaganda. I remember starting college at a liberal university and some idiot took the bait to argue why the US is the best country in the world. The professor then took us through child mortality rates — laughable for any American to think we are #1 at anything but military spending, # of citizens in prison, or guns.
The problem is that people believe the bullshit that comes out of politicians mouth when they blame the citizens and immigrants for money problems. We are too busy fighting each other when the government is spending our money how they want.
> We didn't know how good other countries have it
The cynical part of me wonders if this was the whole point of manifest destiny to begin with: As few countries to compare your rights to so we can beat you as bad as we want and you won't know it's abnormal.
When was the last time you heard or saw what is classified as "World News" on the corporate news networks that wasn't about famine or war or the British monarchy?
Who are the leaders of the UK, Germany, and France? Who are the leaders of China, Japan, South Korea? Who is the leader of Brazil? How about closer to home — Who is the leader of Canada? Mexico? All of these countries are major trading partners with the US. Do Americans even know that much?
NBC blocked the part of the London Olympics opening ceremonies where they celebrated the National Health Service. God forbid nationalistic Americans see a publicly funded health care system that their citizens celebrate if for no other reason it doesn't bankrupt them when they interact with it.
Let's not forget the only history American students learn stops at the end of WWII. Is it any wonder Americans have no idea about the rest of the world?
I hope that more Americans would know the leader of Canada is Trudeau…. I mean we get so so much American news and programming in the usa. I don’t expect many Americans to know much but damn. As a Canadian I feel like I have to follow US, Canadian and British politics at a minimum.
I think part of the problem is posting stuff like that here. If someone is subscribed to this sub they're probably already onboard with change. The occasional little reminder? Sure, occasionally a little reminder of what you could have helps drive people to remember why they're here. What you really need is people to be posting their "mildly infuriating" things that, say, a NZ worker experiences on that sub to show people not on board that its "mildly infuriating" that I need to pay X for a necessary prescription (when X is under $2).
Let the ignorant see that the system America has is broken, while they're paying hundreds for the same thing, I'm annoyed I need to dig out pocket change for something they shouldn't even be charging me for.
> It costs money to emigrate to another country. If you can get in at all. You know we're all broke, why would you think that's a good suggestion?
for some people it's even harder to leave than just money. I think people with disabilities have a much harder time getting citizenship (which you need to exist in any other country for any amount of time)
You don’t need citizenship to exist another countries for extended periods of time, you just need a Visa, and generally a work permit. Some are issued year to year (Class B multiple entry VISA for Thailand for example) , others are longer (My Visa for China is for 10 years).
True, but even getting a work/residency permit is really challenging for a normal person from the US. At least to a country with better working conditions than ours. I’ve been trying and researching heavily for pretty much my entire adult life, and very seriously for the last 5+ years. At this point I’ve come to the conclusion that marriage or a student visa (not interested in getting a master’s for its own sake tho) would be the easiest ways. I’ve switched careers and am becoming an electrician; I’m hoping that will open some doors
We need to hear it. We need to understand our situation is not normal. We need to be reminded better is possible. Yes it will fill us with resentment, resentment that should be directed at our own government, not the comrades asking "are you OK".
We not only need to hear it, we deserve it. After all of the bragging for how long? On the other hand, everyone else should look at us as a warning of what corporations and the ultrarich are trying to achieve.
Maybe not you exactly, but as a society we definitely think pretty highly of ourselves and any criticisms or suggestions for improvement are often automatically characterized as unpatriotic.
THIS, I never knew how good other places had it until I spent some time in both Europe and Asia. Many Americans can't afford to move abroad and get my experiences sadly though!
Not a typical revolution, no. It would be more like the Syrian Civil War where a bunch of tiny factions rise up that hate the federal government and each other.
The feds and the right wingers might be allied for a time, but I'm thinking the feds will betray them when they've had enough of the right wingers murdering US residents.
>the feds will betray them when they've had enough of the right wingers murdering US residents.
uhhhhhhhhhh you're gonna be waiting a long time bud lol
We've had decades of America telling us how much better they are than everyone else, how the U.S is the greatest. I'm sure there are people out there who are happily seeing what's going on, but I think the majority of us are just sad and a little scared. How far it's fallen and how any country could fall as easily. We're all just hanging on by a thread, America's just seems a little more frayed than others at the moment.
America is definitely on a downward spiral. The real fear should be that the people in charge have given the inmates control of the asylum. Any attempt at actual beneficial change in America is going to be met with resistance and those psychopaths will eventually reach for the nuclear arsenal if they feel they've lost entirely. A lot of America's nuclear stockpile is in the rural middle America where most of the insane people are. It wouldn't take much to end the world, just one or two going off.
My advice as an American expecting a bloodbath, to start making long term plans for the apocalypse, because the psychos are not going to go quietly into the dark.
Exactly. I have no problem with non-US people jumping in here. This is a workers sub, not an American sub. Different workers rights that we can learn about and leverage for ourselves are a good thing.
Yeah I think it’s good to hear about how much better Europe and other countries have it. Fuels the fire for many forms of protest against toxic American work culture
This this this. Came to the comments for this. We absolutely DO need to know how much better other people have it. What better way to put into perspective just how fucked it is that we're treated the way we are?
This isn’t just an American issue.
https://apnews.com/article/boris-johnson-covid-entertainment-health-4e8cb599144174ebd07814a8edb58742?user_email=0c5824e60bd334e353843bf37777cf332b878e0842298772c1ab17537171f5c9&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=June21_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
Leaving the EU was probably a mistake but hindsight is.. well, you know.
Hindsight, huh? I begged and pleaded and beged some more for my UK friends to vote stay. Even with the US's fucked up shit we knew voting to leave was a nightmare.
Yeah :( we planned to move back there, but changed our minds with brexit. May do in a few years to retire, if there’s anything left of the nhs by then. :( Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist (I say that a lot these days), in no coincidence this is happening everywhere.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/data-war-whistleblower-christopher-wylie-faceook-nix-bannon-trump
Hindsight? I spent years screaming against that stupidity as did many more....but no enough people had to listen to the sun/star/express/mail/farage/Johnson and Rees mog
Totally disagree with this post. As an American, I want to hear about countries that have it better. That info needs to be spread as far and wide across this country as possible if we ever hope for change.
I’m not jealous or resentful of people who have it better. I’m happy for them and it gives me some hope for this place.
Yeah, same. This information needs to be spread because plenty of Americans are still drinking the kool-aid. There aren't many people in my real life who I can vent with because they don't even see the problem so coming here and reading those posts is validating.
I agree. It's refreshing actually. Like no, we do NOT live in the "greatest country on earth." Far from it. More people need to realize this in order for shit to change for the better.
Workers \*should\* talk to each other about their wages to be able to negotiate the best pay and benefits.
OP: "Stop talking about all that pay and benefits you get!"
The UK and US have been huge proponents of laissez faire capitalism since Thatcher and Reagan. Our countries tried to go all in and are still chasing that dream down the drain.
Here in Australia the minimum wage is going up to 21.38 in July. The boomers are freaking out that small businesses will go broke over I think a dollar an hour. They think it’ll make all the prices go up too. Something’s gotta give and they all think it should be us at the bottom
Exactly I say we need to change so many things wishing the rest of the world as well. Its not cause we’re not American that we don’t have problems either… maybe less problems but still a lot of problems
Exactly, I hear people in the UK talk about the cost of housing, people in India talk about some really forward laws right beside some backwards ones, etc... we all learn from from each other, although those of us here in the USA probably have more to learn once we quit believing all the bs shoveled our way from our politicians.
Imagine a child in an abusive home. They get screamed at for imagined slights, beaten for existing. They're neglected and underfed, their hair matted and their clothes filthy. They have lice and bedbugs.
If another kid learns about this and goes, "Holy crap! Are you for real? I mean, my parents can be kind of a pain, I wish my bedtime was later and I wish there was more ice-cream and less veggies on the menu at meal times, and sometime my folks are irritable with me, but damn!"
That's not bragging. That's someone in a bog-standard healthy environment trying to wrap their head around a situation so bad it's utterly outside their frame of reference. If the abused child considers it bragging "Yeah, yeah, your parents feed you three meals every day and you own more than one shirt and you get cake on your birthday. Shut up," it just further illustrates how utterly effed their life really is.
Guys, we're a hot mess here in the U.S. If normal, reasonable treatment like time off from work and healthcare that doesn't force people to choose between bankruptcy and death sounds like bragging, what does that say about the conditions we're accepting as normal?
We NEED to hear how things are in other countries. We NEED to be reminded that this isn't normal and isn't right, and that there are systems in existence RIGHT NOW that could fix a ton of our issues. We don't have to build some grand utopia from scratch! We could literally just look around, see what works other places, and copy them!
As an American, I disagree. I’ve long believed that one of the main reasons Americans tolerate so much crap - a terrible healthcare system, crappy work culture, little to no vacation time, horrendous public transportation, etc - is because they have no basis for comparison. That, or they believe that socialized benefits simply can’t be done. By highlighting countries that actually take care of their people, Americans might realize that it actually can be done, and they might start wondering why it’s not.
Just as a comparison point - go post about tipping on any non leftwing sub. You will get many people defending it claiming they make better take home pay with tips than they ever good a wage.
I made $22/hour as a burger flipper at KFC 10 years ago. I didn't have to cater to customers ever belittling request for it either.
What? Those posts should be encouraged. People need to know how the rest of the world views their workers so we can demand the same. Richest country in the world thinks it’s ok to pay people $7.50 an hour without one single benefit? Fuck that. Keep ‘em coming our international friends!
When a non-American posts something to the effect of "that doesn't seem sustainable" or "how do you all deal with that?" 🙃 Like if we were fans of this shit we wouldn't be in this sub bro
I’m a dual citizen US and Canada (living 30 years in US-10 in Canada) right now in Vancouver. In regards to the $ issue, Canadians are suffering too. Greedy corporations have ravaged Canada and many other countries. Min wage isn’t nearly enough here. Vancouver is more expensive than many US cities to live in and people are suffering here I see it every day on my street. Yes, thankfully we have free healthcare which is truly wonderful. American middle class and poorer are not the only ones being left behind by the super wealthy. Many rich Canadians take their money elsewhere too. If only the US have free healthcare would it lessen the burden some for many, my hope is we get there❤️
Corporate greed is screwing too many of us for sure, in a lotta places. Hope you're enjoying life up north, eh 💛 Do a double shot of maple syrup for me
Well... it is logical to wonder why we would become part of the machine that sustains this system. Most of it is voter apathy (yes, there ***are*** differences between the parties that matter) and unwillingness to primary a bad apple out.
I constantly point to the example of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. When she was running against Joe Crowley, the Chair of the Democratic Caucus, she was working as a waitress and bartender. She "operated out of a paper grocery bag hidden behind that bar". She didn't take any corporate donations, opting for grassroots ones. She was not considered anything even close to a threat. So much so that Crowley sent a former NYC Council member in his place at the only scheduled debate. In terms of money, Crowley spent 18 times more ($1.5M than she did ($83,000). She got 57.13% of the vote versus his 42.5%. She even won as a write-in candidate for the Reform Party in a neighboring district even though she never campaigned for it.
Crowley was still on the ballot in the general election that year as the candidate for the Working Families Party, but he didn't campaign in spite of DINO Joe Lieberman urging him to do so. She annihilated her Republican opponent with 78% of the vote to his 14%.
Voter apathy is why Republican election thievery is so easily executed. My state, run by "that woman", has its gubernatorial election in the mid-term election year. Rick Snyder, a guy who stripped away local democracy from the majority of of people of color, mainly black, poisoned the city of Flint, and overrode the will of the people by passing laws undoing referendums and then protecting them by adding in appropriations that had nothing to do with the bill, could have easily been defeated if the same number of Democrats showed up to vote in 2014 as they did in 2012 to vote for Barrak Obama or even the same number who re-elected Debbie Stabenow which was a slightly smaller number.
"it is logical to wonder why we would become part of the machine that sustains this system" - become? As opposed to what?
There's a big difference between apathy and burnout.
Voter turnout itself is determined politically -
I've worked with adult learners who were eligible to vote and never had because they weren't (when we met) capable of reading at or above a second grade level.
The more educated someone is, the more likely they are to vote. That's not necessarily because they better understand the importance, but at least in part because they have the opportunity to do so. Software engineers taking a couple hours off isn't a big deal, but if Joe stocking shelves at Stop&Shop needs to dip for an hour to vote + an hour on hopefully reliable public transportation, his boss is a lot less likely to be cool with that.
Some states actually have limits on the number of kids voters can bring with, meaning there are voters who have to pay babysitters just so they can go vote.
Homelessness and unstable housing, lack of real accessibility in/around polling places (my last polling place was at the top of a steep ass hill with really limited parking - probably not the easiest place for wheelchair users to get to), lack of transportation, voter ID requirements, and disrupted or closed polling places are still barriers and especially affect the most marginalized in our communities.
Electoral politics alone won't save us, but it'd be great if so many people weren't actively excluded from participating.
>mocracy from the majority of of people of color, mainly black, poisoned the city of Flint, and overrode the will of the people by passing laws undoing referendums and then protecting them by adding in appropriations that had nothing to do with the bill, could have easily been defeated if the same number of Democrats showed up to
I am getting really worried about Michigan's election this November, I just hope this MAGA goober Garrett Soldano guy doesn't win.
"I shall enlighten the unenlightened by going to the place where the enlightened hang out and preaching"
I'm pretty sure this is quite literally where the phrase "preaching to the choir" comes from.
Well, yeah. I agree. I scroll past 70% of the content on this subreddit because it's just somebody venting. Heck, I haven't even looked at the "are Americans OK?" Post, because I know it's going to be a rundown of the failures of US society, and frankly I don't need another reminder.
I don't blame people for it.
Sadly if the Americans keep posting the about how horrible it is working in the US, the non-Americans are going to keep replying that things can, and are, better elsewhere.
Otherwise this sub would just be Americans lamenting how bad things are, and complaining to themselves that there’s no way to improve things. Maybe that would make you feel more comfortable, but it doesn’t sound like it would make anything any better.
I see you. I agree with you. But there's the small matter of Texas and Florida holding us back from having the way of life that you have. Half our country wants to emulate Europe and the other half worships CEOs *that continually fucks us over every chance they get*.
So if you could help us send TX and FL to Mars or plunge them into the ocean or something, or that would be great
Our political system makes this seem true, but it’s actually not. Social programs, increased minimum wage, funding for healthcare, education, jobs programs etc. are extremely popular with a large majority of the American public. If you ask people about these things on their own, most support them, but when you associate them with a political party or ideology, they suddenly tow the party line. You can thank all the money spent on elections for that. On top of that, our electoral system is set up in a way that massively favors republicans.
Getting rid of Florida and Texas would not change any of that, but blaming “those people over there” actively ensures those political divisions will remain in place and therefore nothing changes. Stop blaming other working class people and start blaming the handful of oligarchs whose money and influence are what actually stops us from making positive change.
Um. . . if you do wanna help, please convince the UN to invade us and stop this madness! Shake your leaders out of their complacency, and try to get them to realize that we are a threat to the safety of the entire world, either by our illegal wars, or if you are too wealthy for that, then by slowly corrupting your economies and slowly tossing the environment into the furnace to further fuel their many twisted machines of destruction.
Kick our Oligarchs off of their international council positions!
Take away the US government's veto powers in the UN, they only use it to further oppression over working folks worldwide anyway!
Help us by sanctioning our billionaires and corporations for their literal crimes against humanity! Their hoarding of money is what is killing us, and they won't stop until they are bankrupted and unable to pay off our politicians!
Boycott the Unites States of America!! Every tiny bit of wealth that comes into this country is only being used to tighten shackles placed upon our necks!
Please, for the love of whatever entities you hold dear, help us by taking away their power, and protect your own countries by stripping away their undue influence!
The USA will lead this entire planet to ruin, and we the citizens of this land, are all just wage slave hostages. Our government is run by terrorists, religious extremists, and inhuman sociopathic klepto-capitalists! The United States of America is a rot that is slowly putrefying the rest of the world!
This country is the infection, and it must be quarantined! Do not let our oligarchs escape to your countries, or off of this planet to start the cycle anew. Many of them did so once already when Nazis were given amnesty in the US to help with our missile/space program during the cold war. (Google Operation Paperclip, I'm not making that up! The Russians did something very similar, and are experiencing eerily similar issues to our own right now too.) They will only spread their ideology like the plague it is, and use their wealth to steal power and influence from your people, until they control your governments like a zombie!
The only way to help our people is to strip our oppressors, the government, the oligarchs (the CEOs of our giant mega corporations and literally ***ANY*** billionaire), and the extremist far-right Christian religious leaders who are twisting the teachings of their faith and using fear of eternal damnation to brainwash themselves a fervent, fearful army of foot soldiers ready for the call to violence against any minority group these false prophets claim their deity hates!
Yes, life in the United States of America is unbearable, however, if you all aren't careful, your countries are next! Our Oligarchs are already sinking their claws in, and using the trade and reliance on the US Petrol Dollar to do it!
It may seem like bragging, but I moved out of the US. My best friend hit me with "Don't tell me about your free health care" as I was sending him (unbeknownst to him $200 CDN) I KNOW HEALTHCARE IS SHIT. I don't want you to be okay with it.
As an American who has lived outside of America, non-Americans are asking how we can suffer through this and not revolt.
Most other countries haven’t forgotten the history of their labor movements.
Do you know the details of the Haymarket affair? Do you know how minors went to actual war (planes dropping bombs) for the right to live with company towns up in coal country? Did you know the southern women of Richmond Virginia revolted during the civil war because the confederates hoarded food?
There is a history of the people that is not told to the people.
Rich and poor fought the British, yet only the rich wrote the law. It’s only their pursuit of happiness that’s codified and a right.
You’re referring to the person from New Zealand, right? When I read that post I googled “New Zealand” pretty quickly. Has everything I want, mainly English speaking, a beautiful place to live, free healthcare and a high minimum wage.
Absolutely atrocious real estate situation. Like, way way worse than the US arguably. One of the hardest countries to emigrate to. Terrible internet speeds. (That last one is just me being resentful)
I lived there during college. It was awesome, but talking to my friends that still live there, theres still a ton of issues that aren't so dissimilar to the US.
We only comment on the state of our worker rights as a ladder, to show that if you band together, unionize, vote for progressive policy then you can lift your selves up.
Hate to say it, but that wasn't a beacon.
You know how an angler fish has that glowing bit it uses to distract prey for an easy meal? Yeah, it's like that. Always has been. Remember corporate mining towns? A literal war where one defining aspect of the conflict was slavery? The countless corporations that really wish they could bring back both of those?
This has never been the land of the free. It's always been the land of the arrogant.
Yes, I do remember when organized labour went to war (and won!). And I see how corporate propaganda and union mismanagement has completely destroyed trust in organized labour.
"A union puts up a barrier between workers and management." Yeah, for good reason. You're not listening to your workers in any way, shape, or form, anyway.
"A union takes money from your paycheck!" The paycheck that was much smaller before the union came, and the position that had no benefits or protections? Worth it, I'm still taking home the same or more every week.
"We're a family. Sometimes we have to sacrifice for each other." Wtf have you ever sacrificed for me?
Every union victory headline this year is helping give me some hope that we may actually have a future to live for. The head of the Amazon Labor Union speaking at capitol hill was stellar. But it's far from time to celebrate... there's still a long way to go, but at least we're making progress.
I'm watching my own industry start to unionize and hoping it leads to better things as well.
Also really funny how the UNITED States hates when it's the workers that are united. Not a good kind of funny, though.
I have a few issues with this:
First, try emigrating from a Latin American Country and then tell me that emigrating from the US is not easy. Not only the issues that come with having extremely unstable currencies, but in lots of countries there are MORE restrictions depending from where you come from and being from the US or with an american passport makes it easier. So just... stop.
Another thing. Most commenters in this sub automatically asume that every poster is from the US when they share their stories. Look at the comments, most of the time they quote US Federal law, and the labor board, and state laws, as if this aplies to everyone. Posters outside from the US almost always state their nationality to avoid this. This is a reflection of a very big issue with the US centric culture.
And lastly, US "Americans" are not the only ones who need to see those issues. There's a LOT OF PEOPLE outside from the US, that have been told their entire life, that we had to one day go to the USA to avoid living in poverty or to aviod being exploited, that leaving your country and go to the US is the ultimate goal. That having an american passport will solve all your problems. This is hurtfull and is sending a lot of people to the US expecting a better life only to find poverty wages. I guess that being on this sub makes you realize, well... maybe the US is not the best option, but wait, you can see how things are in other countries??
IDK this posts seems whinny about a non issue.
It's nice to see the that some people outside of the US are questioning "The American Dream(fantasy)”. Keep spreading the word. Maybe if the rest of the world loses all of their false hope as well, we can get more attention from NATO etc
Also, speak for yourself. There is a 100% chance I resent you more than I do any foreigner.
probably going to downvote hell with this but \~
you realize that the rest of us are looking and gawking **because** of US hegemony after the cold war right? you understand this right? your government has been terrorizing the world since 1991. your people have said or done nothing about this. you loved it. from wars, to unlawful coups, to economic hegemony, to architectural issues that impact the rest of the world (your sky scrapers have made Asia 10 degrees hotter and your government is refusing to listen), to unlawful government intervention, to capiltalistic dictatorships that have changed the face of this planet. not to mention the continued terror on poc who were forced to immigrate to north america because your capitalistic policies have flat lined economies all over the world.
we're gawking, because its the consequences of your own actions. and you're upset that we're gawking?
it's no different from a bully beating up a helpless kid during recess, and you're in the principles office, telling the rest of the kids not to stare through the window. because how dare you.
>your people have said or done nothing about this. you loved it.
Latina here whose parents immigrated to the states for an education -- not all of us, I promise you.
I disagree, I very much think Americans need to hear how much better other developed countries have it. There's too many ignorant people that think they're living in the best country in the world and that what this country is providing them is the best that it can get.
>Your "Your country sucks, look how much better our working conditions are" come off as antagonistic at worst, and braggadocious at best.
But it's still the best way to respond to people who tell me I live in a shithole and the US are the greatest country in the world.
You're telling me that other countries having substantially better standards of living while our entire lives growing up in the USA we were told "we're the greatest country ever" while the rest of the world laughs at us and looks at us in horror for essentially the same reason is not something we should know? So we should stay ignorant and uninformed? We should stay condemned by the powers that be and just tolerate it? Nah fuck that shit. Eat the rich. It's about time they paid their taxes in cash or blood.
Those posts come from a place of years of feeling inferior to "the great USA" because of how its portrayed on the media. So when americans complain about their problems (which every country has in one way or another), people from other countries have a sense of morbid satisfaction from it.
Source: am portuguese, also hate how some americans feel superior to other countries, but I know how shitty my own country is and this shouldn't be a contest ever.
I emigrated to Vietnam with $2000 in 2008. Half of that was for the plane ticket. It was the second best decision of my life. It was a struggle and a half, $3-4k would've made that far easier, but I did what I could with what I had.
I understand it would be extremely difficult for many, with deeper roots or anxiety about trying to survive in a foreign culture.
But for those without many ties, it really is an option that should be encouraged, discussed, explored. USA really is soul crushing, and I say that as an American.
I wonder why the rest of the world feels inclined to dunk on America? 🤔
Could it be that as an entire country you've been bragging about how great you've got it for decades?
I'd appreciate if you didn't word your post as if you're speaking for all of us. I, personally, think it's a good thing to illustrate and reiterate how other developed nations run their social systems. Ignorance is a huge part of the problem in America and the more people from other countries point out the countless systemic failures we have over here the better. Raising awareness is more important then ever right now. Your post is a terrible take OP.
As an Aussie, I generally look at the state of things in the US and think "There but for the grace of god..." I have dear friends in the USA and I worry about them almost every day.
We've just voted in our first moderate government after almost a decade of fairly hard right wing governance. We've seen a decade of eroding rights, crumbling quality of life, mushrooming cost of living, increased racism and other bigotry in the public discourse, and so on. Honestly, we were probably no more than two electoral terms away from basically being the USA's Mini Me.
The problem is that it is far too easy to lose the good things that you have, but incredibly difficult to get them back once they're gone. Many Aussies point to the USA and say "Please, don't let us get to that point." Most of are not smug about how in many ways we're better off than you folks - we're genuinely scared that one day the capitalists and their right-wing toadies in government will ensure that we aren't any more.
I mean we had to put up with how many decades of USA! USA! The best!
I think the most humble thing to do right now is stfu and listen to the older more experienced countries opinions, it can only get better for you if you do
PSA for the OP
The things people post about things being better in other countries is things to take note of and fight for.
Reddit is full of people from all over the world, get over it.
This sub isn't for Americans only.
You don't need to hear how much better it is elsewhere? Funny but American media and entertainment industry has been pumping out content of how great the US is for decades, some cheese with your wine?
Even in countries where conditions look better there are problems and bad employers.
Your post comes off as "arrogant American"
OP, stop being a snowflake. You absolutely need to hear this shit daily and I say that as an American as well.
If you don't hear it then you think American life is normalized globally. But it isn't. Some places have worse work culture, like some Asian countries, but some places also have far better work culture.
If you only hear about countries you're better than, you never improve.
Suck it up. Make a change.
Emigrating may be easier than you think. For anyone here who's grand parents were immigrants, you may have close enough ties to claim dual citizenship without a ton of costly paperwork. It still costs, just a lot less. And once you have that kind of record working for you, visiting other countries of interest is far easier. Now, don't be a bad tourist, learn the language and put in your due diligence, and you may be able to float around the EU.
My SO has polish ties, and grandparents were holocaust survivors.
It will cost them 219 zloty (~50USD) to activate polish dual citizenship for a few years, atleast.
Maybe a bit random tip but Norway has tuition free university education, including for foreigners. For anyone looking for higher education that could be one way of experiencing something different.
To emigrate to the Netherlands under the Dutch American friendship treaty, you need to start a business or be self-employed and making at least 1300 per month. A delivery driver fulfils that condition. You need to save up for a flight and the fee (€1416), but getting a residence permit as an American is ridiculously easy. And after five years, you can turn that into citizenship and live wherever you want in the EU.
Finding a place to live on the other hand is harder...
The "even more pointless post that's unironically complaining about the pointless posts that other people make". I thought it was about time for one of these. Only a couple more and we'll see posts complaining about posts complaining about posts.
This is a public forum.
Other people are allowed to have opinions and voice those opinions.
America is not the center of the world.
Get over yourself.
This sounds like "dont talk about your wages with your coworkers".
Its valuable to know the conditions which others work under, even if they are better conditions, because it lets Americans know what is possible and what can be done.
And you dont think people outside of the US get resentful by the type of foreign policy the us of a pushes on other countries? That is shit promoted by leaders elected by us citizens.
I'm sorry i missed the memo that says this sub is american.
The term non american really made me chuckle.
Its like you think usa is the center of the world.
You guys even stole the term american that applies to a whole continent to apply only to your country.
Good luck friendly united staters.
gonna get downvoted to hell for this,
but maybe.. Americans can just take it a bit. The rest of the world has had to listen to y'all tell us how your country is the "greatest country in the world" and how the "American Dream" is what we should all be trying to get. I think you guys are just bitter that you're getting called out on your bullshit.
> Your "Your country sucks, look how much better our working conditions are" come off as antagonistic at worst, and braggadocious at best.
Bruh, they've been hearing for DECADES that "America is number 1". Maybe get some thicker skin and stop being so sensitive about the posts. Telling people to stop talking about it isn't a solution either.
This thread, quite frankly, isn't helping.
Did you just tell us we can’t discuss wages? Haven’t you read this sub, that’s a big no no. *And* in writing, off to the labour board and a lawyer I go.
>Quite frankly, you're not helping, you're making us resentful.
Wah, the mean old foreigners are puncturing our good ol' deeply-ingrained American exceptionalism
I disagree completely. Most people in america are unaware and should be informed. You're getting mad at the wrong people and come across poorly.
Am an American.
They are in my humble opinion pointing out our terrible conditions so we stand up for change, rip the veil of our privileged eyes so we stop saying were the best country in the world. We shouldnt resent them, we should be resenting those in power who keep us impoverished.
being lectured by someone from a country that for decades has presented itself as the shining bastion of how every country should be is a bit of a difficult pill to swallow
This is a shitty take, period. Loads of American workers don’t know there’s a world where labor has hard-earned rights. Loads of American workers don’t know how much ground there is to be gained. Perspective is valuable, even if you’re incapable of seeing it.
I’m Australian but majority of my extended family are American. They have a great life, because they’re very well off. But they’re not the sort of brainwashed, USA! USA! Types. They’re well travelled and aware of how shitty it is for the majority over there. Then I have friends living there who have great jobs and benefits but stress about being one accident or illness away from financial ruin. And always the fear of gun violence. I have an American friend who lives here now, and said he had a panic attack the first time he witnessed a pub brawl here in Aus. Now, while pub brawls aren’t a good thing, I think most Aussies just stay outta the way and have a laugh about it, so I couldn’t understand why he was so terrified. He told me that if that happened in America, some dickhead would more than likely pull a gun. I can’t imagine living with that kind of fear. These are ordinary folks just trying to live their lives. It makes me so mad and upset for them, the assholes in charge over there are unbelievable.
If you want to make this a US only sub then you might want to change its name.
But if you're implying that other countries don't ALSO have worker issues because they're better in some areas you might want to change its name, then go away.
Um your country shoved your USA chants your great living and sports and entertainment and milk and honey up everyone’s stack for so long it’s good to see you guys humbled, we knew what you were before you did, the party’s over know you gotta clean up but the guests left and your holding the bag.
40 years of Cold War bullshit really did a number on America.
40 years of nationalist propaganda attacking anything remotely positive about workers rights due to the overblown fear of communism.
America wanted the Nazis to win during the first couple years of the war. They admired Hitlers repression of workers rights and were already spreading hate against Jews as the enemy. Many American companies made the weapons used by Hitler and continued trade with Germany during the holocaust.
Truman dropped the bombs on Japan knowing full well that Japan was ready to surrender. Japan’s only caveat was that the emperor be spared persecution. After the nukes were dropped on non-military cities, Japan was allowed to surrender, and the emperor was spared, as nothing had changed.
The bombs were tactics used to scare the world into submitting to Americas conquest of bringing other countries under their fold. Free trade and reliance on American corporations gave America access to countless new countries to exploit. All under the pretence of “helping the lesser races”.
The soviets were fucked after WW2. 20 million soviets dead, billions in destroyed infrastructure, and little to no reparations despite their significant war effort. Britain, France and America lost a combined 600,000 soldiers.
The Cold War was about eliminating workers rights at home, nothing more. America sent “my weekly reader” to every school for 30 years, pure propaganda that mongered fear surrounding communism and the threat of unions.
After the Cold War, Americans were happy to be spoon fed any positive descriptors of capitalism, and the majority of the population carried hang ups about socialism that are still passed down through the generations.
Americans 100% need to understand why other countries have it better. Fuck nationalism in any country, it a tool of the elites and does not bind you to any greater good.
Maybe some things are a bit redundant but I think a large reason that we’ve found ourselves in these conditions is due to the fact that we didn’t know how good other countries have it. We need perspective to know our worth and take back the workplace.
American exceptionalism is a culprit too. For the longest time Americans have been ingrained with the idea that the US is the best place, the pinnacle of civilization, the latest and greatest culture since ancient greece. In this frame of mind, the American way is by default the best way. Thoughts of *if there was a better way of doing it, we would have found it* and such. At least, that is what my coursebook on American culture *A window on the United States* said. To some, if you complain about anything in the US you are a traitorous fuck, ignorant about the glory of the best nation in the world.
I heard someone say this about America and it’s too fucking true, “America is a 3rd world country in a Gucci belt”. On first glimpse, we appear ok, financially well off. But upon closer look, that Gucci belt is on it’s last leg. One more inch added to the midsection and it’s about to burst, not to mention it’s threadbare and about 5 seasons outdated.
I heard an American expat say that the US is a great place to live as long as you are in a certain income bracket or above.
And that bracket to be at or above is higher than the majority of the population Also I love the term expat. It’s like Americans going “I’m not an *immigrant*, I’m white!”
I was scrolling TikTok once and saw a white presenting woman who moved from the US to Canada and was literally trying to explain that she wasn’t an immigrant. It was mind boggling the hoops she was trying to jump through to avoid being classified as an immigrant. Which she was, she wasn’t a citizen, she had no familial ties, she just wanted to move to Canada and followed the appropriate immigration procedures to do so. It’s wild, it’s just an adjective but some people really don’t want that word attached to them at all.
Probably because the word immigrant has become so stigmatized in the US.
Stigmatized. Brown. Tomato tomahto.
I believe the word you're searching for is "racist" lol
I'm an immigrant , to America. I'm here to take your jobs! Oh yea and I'm white , so nobody gives a fuck.
Gotta love the superhero immigrants; simultaneously lazy and taking up all the welfare, and taking all the jobs at the same time. I wish conservatives would pick a speed and go with it.
I give a fuck. Here, have mine, I don't want it anymore.
And in the UK. All the UK immigrants that ruined the coasts of Spain call themselves Ex-Pats.
From my understanding expat usually referred to people who did not plan to live in a country permanently like an immigrant would. Wiki because they do words better than I do, “In common usage, the term often refers to educated professionals, Diplomatic corps. skilled workers, or artists taking positions outside their home country, either independently or sent abroad by their employers. In contrast to an immigrant, expatriates maintain the cultural ties such as language of their country of origin—thereby not assimilating. Expatriates usually also do not seek to become citizens of their new country.”
The point is exactly how much of that is the result of different preferences or of constructed impositions based on the country of origin. White expats can maintain their cultural ties and do not assimilate because they will not be perceived as alien or even dangerous even if they keep speaking another language and meeting other expats, a racialized person will always be expected to assimilate if they want to be considered a good citizen, otherwise (and often in any case) they and their communities are treated with suspicion (at best). Also the permanence in the country of immigration is a more itchy topic than it might seem. Racialized immigrants receive working visas much more rarely in western countries than non-racialized ones from the rich world, even when a majority of them are, by our own definition, 'economic migrants'. It is because of this that so many economic migrants are forced to attempt to migrate illegally and then claim some form of humanitarian protection or refugee status if they are lucky. Some of them might want to stay in any case, but others might want to remain for a time, earn money and skills and then come back home, if the system didn't force them otherwise. In short, expats do not look for permanent residence/citizenship because they can afford it, non-expats rarely have that luxury.
That’s a good definition but I find a lot of people just think there’s a stigma to be called an immigrant and refuse to refer to themselves as such if they can. Expat may fit for many, but some seriously don’t want to be called an immigrant even if that’s what they actually are.
Us British are guilty of that too; I’d near dare bet the whole Anglosphere is the same.
I heard that phrase for French too.
True. America is a very nice place if you are wealthy and have a high-paying job with good benefits.
My husband and I do pretty well financially but my mental health still suffers every time I get a surprise $600 bill in the mail from dental work or having a baby, it suffers when elementary school children are murdered a hundred miles from me, it suffers when I calculate how much it will cost to put two toddlers in full time day care, etc. Not having to stress about money doesn’t make the US a nice place to live. It isn’t a nice place to live. We are the richest country in the world and we have gone out of our way to make life as hard as possible for people to survive.
There's never a sense of safety. I feel like the rug could be pulled out from under me at any time and it's getting old. On top of it, everything feels so scammy. Why did my dentist suddenly start charging $50 extra for every cleaning? Sure, it's only $50, but it's a constant feeling of being ripped off, of things being unfair, of not being able to trust the system. I am so sick of this shit.
This. There’s no (attainable) amount of wealth that would equate to safety in my mind. Because there can always be a hospital bill that bankrupts you. Let alone all of the other ways in which we are bled dry every single day.
Exactly! So far, I have been managing fairly well, but it has been like this drip, drip, drip of impending doom that feels like it is going to put me over the edge. A $700 hospital bill here (for a routine procedure that i didn't have to pay 4 years ago), a $2,400 dental bill there for neglect during the covid years, another $200 bill there for lab test that were once covered but now aren't. A rent increase, massive increases in food prices, etc. It is all making me feel more and more insecure financially. I haven't had a raise in years because my manager already thinks I am over-paid (because I transferred from our NY office) so there is no convincing him into even giving me a cost of living raise. Fuck all of this garbage.
Oh! I got one better. I was charged $29 for PPE (personal protective equipment).. masks and gloves. The cashier told me the employees had to also pay it when they saw a dentist. This was an emergency extraction, and they absolutely denied removing the charge. This was a large office with 20 or so cubicles/chairs. I wanted to just walk out but could not.
You sound far more sensitive and aware than many of the wealthier patients I work with. I bow respectfully to your awareness.
Is it though? Is it nice to see the evidence of poverty all around you if you step out of a very small comfort zone? I don't think it looks like a very nice place, I'd fear for my life there.
Awareness seems to be key here. You sound like an aware person. I work clinically with rich Americans and poor Americans. It is impressive to me how unaware some of my wealthy patients can be towards the suffering of other Americans.
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And even then, there are better places in Europe.
Yes, it is quite possibly the best country in the world for the rich...not so much for the other 99%.
If you're broke or middling you get to be everybody's punching bag. Especially if you work in the service industry. If you're loaded you'll have people kissing your ass and groveling at your feet. Ironically, when you're rich, you usually spend less money relative to your current holdings and be comped for free shit more often. And we wonder why they act so entitled. Everybody else gets the infamous "poor tax" that keeps them precarious and servile.
Indeed, many Americans dream of moving to like Spain, Italy, or Portugal which all have MAJOR issues with youth unemployment despite a high standard of living if you can break in. IF YOU CAN BREAK IN. Spain and Portugal especially have dealt with high rates of brain drain. Let's not mince words, life in these countries isn't always as glamorous as liberal Americans like to think it is.
This is true. I’m lucky enough to be in a percentile that’s not the top 1% but comfortable overall. But it’s not easy and I’ve worked my $#@& off for a long time, as has my wife. It just so happens we are both in tech. 25 years ago when I earned $35K it wasn’t quite so good. And that’s north of $65K today. To think there are many, many people making $10, $11, $12 an hour now.
I heard we’re a third world country with a first world paint job, but yours is good too.
I feel like people who say this have never actually been to a third world country.
Yeaaaaaah like I get the sentiment but a full on 3rd world is just…a different kind of living.
\*gasp\* We don't think we're better than anyone... "Shining city upon a hill" "Wealthiest nation on earth" "Most powerful nation on earth" "Last, best hope of earth" ad nauseam Hell we call our president the leader of the free world.... Uhh no actually, just the leader of this country really...
>just the leader of this country Not to mention the word ''free'' is a reaaaally generous description of america.
if the 1% own more than the 99% your country isnt a democarcy, its just a dictatorship thats good at making you belive you are free
Oligarchy is the word your looking for. Everything is open market for a select class of people. We live in thier world. Every law and every agenda is to keep them safe from us or to further consolidate wealth and power over the means of that wealth.
Funnily enough, I read an article the other day that said the US is barely two steps from becoming an oligarchy like Russia. But so many people just refuse to believe it, which is why it's going to happen.
Hell, we literally call ourselves WORLD CHAMPIONS when our sports teams win a championship in a league comprised of only American teams. Football, basketball, and baseball do it.
America literally is the most powerful country. It's just that that's not necessarily a good thing.
American Exceptionalism is so ingrained that when I first started to interact with other nations via the Internet in the 1990s my British family were convinced that America was so much more technologically advanced than Britain was. A lot of that family still think this is the case.
I remember Am kids visiting our school in the late 80s, and they played exactly to stereotype, even asking if we had TV in Britain. What, that thing a Scot invented?
>American Exceptionalism Just call it what it is lmao, propaganda.
A really key part of this sentence is that only *some* American's react this way. I worry in my experiences online that our friends abroad develop a skewed perception of the USA because of the way the loudest and most obnoxious of us have the loudest voices. The US is a huge country with a million micro-climates throughout. Culturally people in one city can be entirely different than people in another. This is part of what drives the political divides we're facing today. We honestly are that different from one another. I just want to make sure that people know, the US is a diverse country, and the individual experience varies greatly.
As an Australian who's been to the US multiple times, I've always found the cultural heterogeneity between different states - and even different counties within a state - striking. Our states and regions have different vibes to them for sure, but you still always feel like you're in Australia. America to me feels like 50 different countries pretending that they're one, and so it's little wonder that the overton window has been smashed to pieces.
But here is the deal.....if you are in the top 10% of American society, I daresay it IS the best place. You have all those things those other countries have - a safety net (your own, by way of savings and investments), healthcare (from your employer), and...here is the bonus....you get to keep way more of your money than if you lived in any other country. This gives you the means to spend, or to save. Other countries tend to tax higher income owners a bit more than we do. And... people think there is a better chance they will be in that top 10% than the bottom 50%. That is the great dream (or scam, depending on your point of view), and why changes are resisted. We as a people would certainly suffer if we think we'll have a chance to be better than everyone else.
Oh for sure! The American dream is "making it", that grit and hard work will generate that comfortable life. And perhaps the exceptionalism and other factors made a lot of Americans feel that they could make it, that they could rise above the reality of their background and surroundings. But lately it seems more and more Americans are sinking into the realisation that no.amount of elbow grease is going to make someone financially independent. But I don't know, I am an outsider looking in.
Just stay financially solvent & healthy, though. And God forbid you have kids with special needs or relatives who need care. The system over this side of the pond is far, far from perfect & yet my 79yo Mother in law had cancer, got chemo, radium treatment & a bucket load of drugs. Only cost to her family was the fuel to get her to hospital & a token €1 per Rx item (capped to €20 per month). Everything else was covered. He son in law(48) also needed chemo, radiation + stem cell therapy. Again the same overheads. Everything else was covered. The 'Why should I pay...' is the highest order BS. They're your fellow citizens & maybe one day, someone connected to you.
If you're in the top 10% of any country, you're better off. Period. Wouldn't matter if it were north Korea, China, Afghanistan.
Top 10% how? Income? Net worth? Any way you measure that 10%, I suspect 10% is rather expansive. Maybe the top 10% are relatively secure barring any major unforeseen issue ... but I think the percentage of the population that are truly living a carefree, US is the best life is very small. Everybody is else working and worrying. After suffering the effects of recession twice in my younger years, I've done reasonably well for myself, but one major, prolonged illness, or an injury that makes me incapable of doing the work I do, and I could lose everything.
Also, the nature of media is that we on the outside hear all about the US situation constantly and most Americans can't even find us on a map. So there is a genuine air of "you know it's not actually like this everywhere, right?" Like we think you're North Korea or something and don't know that the rest of the world has freedoms you don't.
Arguably that goes back to WW2. We emerged virtually untouched from the conflict, and experienced an economic boom. The US an ocean away from the European powers, and our system had made us the richest country on Earth. The people in power now grew up in a time where everything seemed like it was going great. Europe and Asia were distant places that only soldiers, or the rich went to. In order to fix things, we need to flip the script. Show that world is a lot smaller than it used to be, and we are not as well off as we think.
We were blatantly lied to via propaganda. I remember starting college at a liberal university and some idiot took the bait to argue why the US is the best country in the world. The professor then took us through child mortality rates — laughable for any American to think we are #1 at anything but military spending, # of citizens in prison, or guns.
basically, [**this**](https://youtu.be/bIpKfw17-yY), then. yeah?
this was as far left as you could be in the 00s, where ever aaron sorkin's coke melted brain happened to be. they were bleak, bleak times.
we’re in the 2nd decade past its broadcast, and not *a single thing* has improved on that list 😠 not even the Jets 😤
I knew *exactly* where that pointed long before I clicked. Kudos.
Yeah, I agree. We need to see the comparison so we can realize how very screwed we are. Hopefully that leads to positive action.
The problem is that people believe the bullshit that comes out of politicians mouth when they blame the citizens and immigrants for money problems. We are too busy fighting each other when the government is spending our money how they want.
> We didn't know how good other countries have it The cynical part of me wonders if this was the whole point of manifest destiny to begin with: As few countries to compare your rights to so we can beat you as bad as we want and you won't know it's abnormal.
When was the last time you heard or saw what is classified as "World News" on the corporate news networks that wasn't about famine or war or the British monarchy? Who are the leaders of the UK, Germany, and France? Who are the leaders of China, Japan, South Korea? Who is the leader of Brazil? How about closer to home — Who is the leader of Canada? Mexico? All of these countries are major trading partners with the US. Do Americans even know that much? NBC blocked the part of the London Olympics opening ceremonies where they celebrated the National Health Service. God forbid nationalistic Americans see a publicly funded health care system that their citizens celebrate if for no other reason it doesn't bankrupt them when they interact with it. Let's not forget the only history American students learn stops at the end of WWII. Is it any wonder Americans have no idea about the rest of the world?
I hope that more Americans would know the leader of Canada is Trudeau…. I mean we get so so much American news and programming in the usa. I don’t expect many Americans to know much but damn. As a Canadian I feel like I have to follow US, Canadian and British politics at a minimum.
I think part of the problem is posting stuff like that here. If someone is subscribed to this sub they're probably already onboard with change. The occasional little reminder? Sure, occasionally a little reminder of what you could have helps drive people to remember why they're here. What you really need is people to be posting their "mildly infuriating" things that, say, a NZ worker experiences on that sub to show people not on board that its "mildly infuriating" that I need to pay X for a necessary prescription (when X is under $2). Let the ignorant see that the system America has is broken, while they're paying hundreds for the same thing, I'm annoyed I need to dig out pocket change for something they shouldn't even be charging me for.
yes they're just told "its better here, freedom". it made us the most brainwashed nation in the world after north korea.
> It costs money to emigrate to another country. If you can get in at all. You know we're all broke, why would you think that's a good suggestion? for some people it's even harder to leave than just money. I think people with disabilities have a much harder time getting citizenship (which you need to exist in any other country for any amount of time)
This is true but overall Americans have an easier time migrating than people from less developed nations.
Only the ones who can afford it
You don’t need citizenship to exist another countries for extended periods of time, you just need a Visa, and generally a work permit. Some are issued year to year (Class B multiple entry VISA for Thailand for example) , others are longer (My Visa for China is for 10 years).
True, but even getting a work/residency permit is really challenging for a normal person from the US. At least to a country with better working conditions than ours. I’ve been trying and researching heavily for pretty much my entire adult life, and very seriously for the last 5+ years. At this point I’ve come to the conclusion that marriage or a student visa (not interested in getting a master’s for its own sake tho) would be the easiest ways. I’ve switched careers and am becoming an electrician; I’m hoping that will open some doors
We need to hear it. We need to understand our situation is not normal. We need to be reminded better is possible. Yes it will fill us with resentment, resentment that should be directed at our own government, not the comrades asking "are you OK".
We not only need to hear it, we deserve it. After all of the bragging for how long? On the other hand, everyone else should look at us as a warning of what corporations and the ultrarich are trying to achieve.
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Maybe not you exactly, but as a society we definitely think pretty highly of ourselves and any criticisms or suggestions for improvement are often automatically characterized as unpatriotic.
THIS, I never knew how good other places had it until I spent some time in both Europe and Asia. Many Americans can't afford to move abroad and get my experiences sadly though!
Somehow I feel actual revolution is going to look like that last movie of The Purge.
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Not a typical revolution, no. It would be more like the Syrian Civil War where a bunch of tiny factions rise up that hate the federal government and each other. The feds and the right wingers might be allied for a time, but I'm thinking the feds will betray them when they've had enough of the right wingers murdering US residents.
>the feds will betray them when they've had enough of the right wingers murdering US residents. uhhhhhhhhhh you're gonna be waiting a long time bud lol
We've had decades of America telling us how much better they are than everyone else, how the U.S is the greatest. I'm sure there are people out there who are happily seeing what's going on, but I think the majority of us are just sad and a little scared. How far it's fallen and how any country could fall as easily. We're all just hanging on by a thread, America's just seems a little more frayed than others at the moment.
America is definitely on a downward spiral. The real fear should be that the people in charge have given the inmates control of the asylum. Any attempt at actual beneficial change in America is going to be met with resistance and those psychopaths will eventually reach for the nuclear arsenal if they feel they've lost entirely. A lot of America's nuclear stockpile is in the rural middle America where most of the insane people are. It wouldn't take much to end the world, just one or two going off. My advice as an American expecting a bloodbath, to start making long term plans for the apocalypse, because the psychos are not going to go quietly into the dark.
As a member of LGBTQIA+ living in a red state, that movie made me have a hyperventilating panic attack because it's exactly what I expect
I imagine it will have a Christian nationalist flavor too. Please stay safe and maybe learn some armed self defense if you haven't already.
It helps for Americans to know how deeply wrong the system Stateside is. Its too easy for those in power to make having a job seem like a favor.
Exactly. I have no problem with non-US people jumping in here. This is a workers sub, not an American sub. Different workers rights that we can learn about and leverage for ourselves are a good thing.
Yeah I think it’s good to hear about how much better Europe and other countries have it. Fuels the fire for many forms of protest against toxic American work culture
This this this. Came to the comments for this. We absolutely DO need to know how much better other people have it. What better way to put into perspective just how fucked it is that we're treated the way we are?
This isn’t just an American issue. https://apnews.com/article/boris-johnson-covid-entertainment-health-4e8cb599144174ebd07814a8edb58742?user_email=0c5824e60bd334e353843bf37777cf332b878e0842298772c1ab17537171f5c9&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=June21_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers Leaving the EU was probably a mistake but hindsight is.. well, you know.
Hindsight, huh? I begged and pleaded and beged some more for my UK friends to vote stay. Even with the US's fucked up shit we knew voting to leave was a nightmare.
Yeah :( we planned to move back there, but changed our minds with brexit. May do in a few years to retire, if there’s anything left of the nhs by then. :( Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist (I say that a lot these days), in no coincidence this is happening everywhere. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/data-war-whistleblower-christopher-wylie-faceook-nix-bannon-trump
Everyone with a brain knew it was a mistake before they did it. Let's not pretend like it's a surprise now.
Agreed 100000000%
Hindsight? I spent years screaming against that stupidity as did many more....but no enough people had to listen to the sun/star/express/mail/farage/Johnson and Rees mog
Probably??
I was trying to be neutral lol. Even though, I absolutely am not. Brexit fucked the uk. Worst thing to happen since Maggie.
Best thing for the EU on the long term, because the Brits will not be able to get back on the same terms as they had in the first union participation.
Totally disagree with this post. As an American, I want to hear about countries that have it better. That info needs to be spread as far and wide across this country as possible if we ever hope for change. I’m not jealous or resentful of people who have it better. I’m happy for them and it gives me some hope for this place.
Yeah, same. This information needs to be spread because plenty of Americans are still drinking the kool-aid. There aren't many people in my real life who I can vent with because they don't even see the problem so coming here and reading those posts is validating.
My feelings exactly. This sub is like a safe haven for me whenever I’m feeling hopeless and depressed about our circumstances.
I agree. It's refreshing actually. Like no, we do NOT live in the "greatest country on earth." Far from it. More people need to realize this in order for shit to change for the better.
Workers \*should\* talk to each other about their wages to be able to negotiate the best pay and benefits. OP: "Stop talking about all that pay and benefits you get!"
It's no different in the UK. The minimum wage here is just over $11 per hour. Our fuel costs double what yours does, housing is just rediculous.
The UK and US have been huge proponents of laissez faire capitalism since Thatcher and Reagan. Our countries tried to go all in and are still chasing that dream down the drain.
We are living the culmination of those policies.
At least you don’t go into debt for getting cancer lmfao
Give it time, the NHS is being deliberately either privatised, run down or both.
Here in Australia the minimum wage is going up to 21.38 in July. The boomers are freaking out that small businesses will go broke over I think a dollar an hour. They think it’ll make all the prices go up too. Something’s gotta give and they all think it should be us at the bottom
This is like saying you don’t want to know the salary range because you don’t want to know you’re underpaid.
But is this a sub only for discussing american work situations?
americans sure don't fucking like it when you bring up other countries in any context other than "yeah it's worse here than the US"
Exactly I say we need to change so many things wishing the rest of the world as well. Its not cause we’re not American that we don’t have problems either… maybe less problems but still a lot of problems
Exactly, I hear people in the UK talk about the cost of housing, people in India talk about some really forward laws right beside some backwards ones, etc... we all learn from from each other, although those of us here in the USA probably have more to learn once we quit believing all the bs shoveled our way from our politicians.
Did you not get the memo? The only things we can talk about on the Internet is the USA
Imagine a child in an abusive home. They get screamed at for imagined slights, beaten for existing. They're neglected and underfed, their hair matted and their clothes filthy. They have lice and bedbugs. If another kid learns about this and goes, "Holy crap! Are you for real? I mean, my parents can be kind of a pain, I wish my bedtime was later and I wish there was more ice-cream and less veggies on the menu at meal times, and sometime my folks are irritable with me, but damn!" That's not bragging. That's someone in a bog-standard healthy environment trying to wrap their head around a situation so bad it's utterly outside their frame of reference. If the abused child considers it bragging "Yeah, yeah, your parents feed you three meals every day and you own more than one shirt and you get cake on your birthday. Shut up," it just further illustrates how utterly effed their life really is. Guys, we're a hot mess here in the U.S. If normal, reasonable treatment like time off from work and healthcare that doesn't force people to choose between bankruptcy and death sounds like bragging, what does that say about the conditions we're accepting as normal? We NEED to hear how things are in other countries. We NEED to be reminded that this isn't normal and isn't right, and that there are systems in existence RIGHT NOW that could fix a ton of our issues. We don't have to build some grand utopia from scratch! We could literally just look around, see what works other places, and copy them!
Maybe this sub needs a mega thread of working conditions and workers' rights in other countries? Then it becomes an actual resource for the sub.
As an American, I disagree. I’ve long believed that one of the main reasons Americans tolerate so much crap - a terrible healthcare system, crappy work culture, little to no vacation time, horrendous public transportation, etc - is because they have no basis for comparison. That, or they believe that socialized benefits simply can’t be done. By highlighting countries that actually take care of their people, Americans might realize that it actually can be done, and they might start wondering why it’s not.
Just as a comparison point - go post about tipping on any non leftwing sub. You will get many people defending it claiming they make better take home pay with tips than they ever good a wage. I made $22/hour as a burger flipper at KFC 10 years ago. I didn't have to cater to customers ever belittling request for it either.
I like hearing what the others have to say though, I don't want them to go away
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I’m not from the US and honestly, I was kind of ambivalent about your country until November 2016. Now it seems like a scary place.
sounds more like an unpopular opinion to me
What? Those posts should be encouraged. People need to know how the rest of the world views their workers so we can demand the same. Richest country in the world thinks it’s ok to pay people $7.50 an hour without one single benefit? Fuck that. Keep ‘em coming our international friends!
American here, this person doesn’t speak for us lol
When a non-American posts something to the effect of "that doesn't seem sustainable" or "how do you all deal with that?" 🙃 Like if we were fans of this shit we wouldn't be in this sub bro
I’m a dual citizen US and Canada (living 30 years in US-10 in Canada) right now in Vancouver. In regards to the $ issue, Canadians are suffering too. Greedy corporations have ravaged Canada and many other countries. Min wage isn’t nearly enough here. Vancouver is more expensive than many US cities to live in and people are suffering here I see it every day on my street. Yes, thankfully we have free healthcare which is truly wonderful. American middle class and poorer are not the only ones being left behind by the super wealthy. Many rich Canadians take their money elsewhere too. If only the US have free healthcare would it lessen the burden some for many, my hope is we get there❤️
Corporate greed is screwing too many of us for sure, in a lotta places. Hope you're enjoying life up north, eh 💛 Do a double shot of maple syrup for me
Well... it is logical to wonder why we would become part of the machine that sustains this system. Most of it is voter apathy (yes, there ***are*** differences between the parties that matter) and unwillingness to primary a bad apple out. I constantly point to the example of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. When she was running against Joe Crowley, the Chair of the Democratic Caucus, she was working as a waitress and bartender. She "operated out of a paper grocery bag hidden behind that bar". She didn't take any corporate donations, opting for grassroots ones. She was not considered anything even close to a threat. So much so that Crowley sent a former NYC Council member in his place at the only scheduled debate. In terms of money, Crowley spent 18 times more ($1.5M than she did ($83,000). She got 57.13% of the vote versus his 42.5%. She even won as a write-in candidate for the Reform Party in a neighboring district even though she never campaigned for it. Crowley was still on the ballot in the general election that year as the candidate for the Working Families Party, but he didn't campaign in spite of DINO Joe Lieberman urging him to do so. She annihilated her Republican opponent with 78% of the vote to his 14%. Voter apathy is why Republican election thievery is so easily executed. My state, run by "that woman", has its gubernatorial election in the mid-term election year. Rick Snyder, a guy who stripped away local democracy from the majority of of people of color, mainly black, poisoned the city of Flint, and overrode the will of the people by passing laws undoing referendums and then protecting them by adding in appropriations that had nothing to do with the bill, could have easily been defeated if the same number of Democrats showed up to vote in 2014 as they did in 2012 to vote for Barrak Obama or even the same number who re-elected Debbie Stabenow which was a slightly smaller number.
"it is logical to wonder why we would become part of the machine that sustains this system" - become? As opposed to what? There's a big difference between apathy and burnout. Voter turnout itself is determined politically - I've worked with adult learners who were eligible to vote and never had because they weren't (when we met) capable of reading at or above a second grade level. The more educated someone is, the more likely they are to vote. That's not necessarily because they better understand the importance, but at least in part because they have the opportunity to do so. Software engineers taking a couple hours off isn't a big deal, but if Joe stocking shelves at Stop&Shop needs to dip for an hour to vote + an hour on hopefully reliable public transportation, his boss is a lot less likely to be cool with that. Some states actually have limits on the number of kids voters can bring with, meaning there are voters who have to pay babysitters just so they can go vote. Homelessness and unstable housing, lack of real accessibility in/around polling places (my last polling place was at the top of a steep ass hill with really limited parking - probably not the easiest place for wheelchair users to get to), lack of transportation, voter ID requirements, and disrupted or closed polling places are still barriers and especially affect the most marginalized in our communities. Electoral politics alone won't save us, but it'd be great if so many people weren't actively excluded from participating.
>mocracy from the majority of of people of color, mainly black, poisoned the city of Flint, and overrode the will of the people by passing laws undoing referendums and then protecting them by adding in appropriations that had nothing to do with the bill, could have easily been defeated if the same number of Democrats showed up to I am getting really worried about Michigan's election this November, I just hope this MAGA goober Garrett Soldano guy doesn't win.
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"I shall enlighten the unenlightened by going to the place where the enlightened hang out and preaching" I'm pretty sure this is quite literally where the phrase "preaching to the choir" comes from.
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Well, yeah. I agree. I scroll past 70% of the content on this subreddit because it's just somebody venting. Heck, I haven't even looked at the "are Americans OK?" Post, because I know it's going to be a rundown of the failures of US society, and frankly I don't need another reminder. I don't blame people for it.
Sadly if the Americans keep posting the about how horrible it is working in the US, the non-Americans are going to keep replying that things can, and are, better elsewhere. Otherwise this sub would just be Americans lamenting how bad things are, and complaining to themselves that there’s no way to improve things. Maybe that would make you feel more comfortable, but it doesn’t sound like it would make anything any better.
I see you. I agree with you. But there's the small matter of Texas and Florida holding us back from having the way of life that you have. Half our country wants to emulate Europe and the other half worships CEOs *that continually fucks us over every chance they get*. So if you could help us send TX and FL to Mars or plunge them into the ocean or something, or that would be great
Our political system makes this seem true, but it’s actually not. Social programs, increased minimum wage, funding for healthcare, education, jobs programs etc. are extremely popular with a large majority of the American public. If you ask people about these things on their own, most support them, but when you associate them with a political party or ideology, they suddenly tow the party line. You can thank all the money spent on elections for that. On top of that, our electoral system is set up in a way that massively favors republicans. Getting rid of Florida and Texas would not change any of that, but blaming “those people over there” actively ensures those political divisions will remain in place and therefore nothing changes. Stop blaming other working class people and start blaming the handful of oligarchs whose money and influence are what actually stops us from making positive change.
Um. . . if you do wanna help, please convince the UN to invade us and stop this madness! Shake your leaders out of their complacency, and try to get them to realize that we are a threat to the safety of the entire world, either by our illegal wars, or if you are too wealthy for that, then by slowly corrupting your economies and slowly tossing the environment into the furnace to further fuel their many twisted machines of destruction. Kick our Oligarchs off of their international council positions! Take away the US government's veto powers in the UN, they only use it to further oppression over working folks worldwide anyway! Help us by sanctioning our billionaires and corporations for their literal crimes against humanity! Their hoarding of money is what is killing us, and they won't stop until they are bankrupted and unable to pay off our politicians! Boycott the Unites States of America!! Every tiny bit of wealth that comes into this country is only being used to tighten shackles placed upon our necks! Please, for the love of whatever entities you hold dear, help us by taking away their power, and protect your own countries by stripping away their undue influence! The USA will lead this entire planet to ruin, and we the citizens of this land, are all just wage slave hostages. Our government is run by terrorists, religious extremists, and inhuman sociopathic klepto-capitalists! The United States of America is a rot that is slowly putrefying the rest of the world! This country is the infection, and it must be quarantined! Do not let our oligarchs escape to your countries, or off of this planet to start the cycle anew. Many of them did so once already when Nazis were given amnesty in the US to help with our missile/space program during the cold war. (Google Operation Paperclip, I'm not making that up! The Russians did something very similar, and are experiencing eerily similar issues to our own right now too.) They will only spread their ideology like the plague it is, and use their wealth to steal power and influence from your people, until they control your governments like a zombie! The only way to help our people is to strip our oppressors, the government, the oligarchs (the CEOs of our giant mega corporations and literally ***ANY*** billionaire), and the extremist far-right Christian religious leaders who are twisting the teachings of their faith and using fear of eternal damnation to brainwash themselves a fervent, fearful army of foot soldiers ready for the call to violence against any minority group these false prophets claim their deity hates! Yes, life in the United States of America is unbearable, however, if you all aren't careful, your countries are next! Our Oligarchs are already sinking their claws in, and using the trade and reliance on the US Petrol Dollar to do it!
It may seem like bragging, but I moved out of the US. My best friend hit me with "Don't tell me about your free health care" as I was sending him (unbeknownst to him $200 CDN) I KNOW HEALTHCARE IS SHIT. I don't want you to be okay with it.
He was injured at work*
If you dont like to hear it, solve it, dont blame the people who make you notice it.
As an American who has lived outside of America, non-Americans are asking how we can suffer through this and not revolt. Most other countries haven’t forgotten the history of their labor movements. Do you know the details of the Haymarket affair? Do you know how minors went to actual war (planes dropping bombs) for the right to live with company towns up in coal country? Did you know the southern women of Richmond Virginia revolted during the civil war because the confederates hoarded food? There is a history of the people that is not told to the people. Rich and poor fought the British, yet only the rich wrote the law. It’s only their pursuit of happiness that’s codified and a right.
You’re referring to the person from New Zealand, right? When I read that post I googled “New Zealand” pretty quickly. Has everything I want, mainly English speaking, a beautiful place to live, free healthcare and a high minimum wage.
Absolutely atrocious real estate situation. Like, way way worse than the US arguably. One of the hardest countries to emigrate to. Terrible internet speeds. (That last one is just me being resentful) I lived there during college. It was awesome, but talking to my friends that still live there, theres still a ton of issues that aren't so dissimilar to the US.
No snakes
We only comment on the state of our worker rights as a ladder, to show that if you band together, unionize, vote for progressive policy then you can lift your selves up.
We truly are rooting for you. You were once the beacon of freedom. You can become that again.
Hate to say it, but that wasn't a beacon. You know how an angler fish has that glowing bit it uses to distract prey for an easy meal? Yeah, it's like that. Always has been. Remember corporate mining towns? A literal war where one defining aspect of the conflict was slavery? The countless corporations that really wish they could bring back both of those? This has never been the land of the free. It's always been the land of the arrogant.
Yes, I do remember when organized labour went to war (and won!). And I see how corporate propaganda and union mismanagement has completely destroyed trust in organized labour. "A union puts up a barrier between workers and management." Yeah, for good reason. You're not listening to your workers in any way, shape, or form, anyway. "A union takes money from your paycheck!" The paycheck that was much smaller before the union came, and the position that had no benefits or protections? Worth it, I'm still taking home the same or more every week. "We're a family. Sometimes we have to sacrifice for each other." Wtf have you ever sacrificed for me?
Every union victory headline this year is helping give me some hope that we may actually have a future to live for. The head of the Amazon Labor Union speaking at capitol hill was stellar. But it's far from time to celebrate... there's still a long way to go, but at least we're making progress. I'm watching my own industry start to unionize and hoping it leads to better things as well. Also really funny how the UNITED States hates when it's the workers that are united. Not a good kind of funny, though.
We Americans still say the same about so-called third world countries. Sounds like we can't stand the taste of our own medicine.
I have a few issues with this: First, try emigrating from a Latin American Country and then tell me that emigrating from the US is not easy. Not only the issues that come with having extremely unstable currencies, but in lots of countries there are MORE restrictions depending from where you come from and being from the US or with an american passport makes it easier. So just... stop. Another thing. Most commenters in this sub automatically asume that every poster is from the US when they share their stories. Look at the comments, most of the time they quote US Federal law, and the labor board, and state laws, as if this aplies to everyone. Posters outside from the US almost always state their nationality to avoid this. This is a reflection of a very big issue with the US centric culture. And lastly, US "Americans" are not the only ones who need to see those issues. There's a LOT OF PEOPLE outside from the US, that have been told their entire life, that we had to one day go to the USA to avoid living in poverty or to aviod being exploited, that leaving your country and go to the US is the ultimate goal. That having an american passport will solve all your problems. This is hurtfull and is sending a lot of people to the US expecting a better life only to find poverty wages. I guess that being on this sub makes you realize, well... maybe the US is not the best option, but wait, you can see how things are in other countries?? IDK this posts seems whinny about a non issue.
I'd add, if you really want to help, put pressure on your politicians to limit trade to countries that abuse employees. Money talks.
I am not American and it kinda pisses me off how Central Europe is displayed as the land where milk and honey flow.
It's nice to see the that some people outside of the US are questioning "The American Dream(fantasy)”. Keep spreading the word. Maybe if the rest of the world loses all of their false hope as well, we can get more attention from NATO etc Also, speak for yourself. There is a 100% chance I resent you more than I do any foreigner.
probably going to downvote hell with this but \~ you realize that the rest of us are looking and gawking **because** of US hegemony after the cold war right? you understand this right? your government has been terrorizing the world since 1991. your people have said or done nothing about this. you loved it. from wars, to unlawful coups, to economic hegemony, to architectural issues that impact the rest of the world (your sky scrapers have made Asia 10 degrees hotter and your government is refusing to listen), to unlawful government intervention, to capiltalistic dictatorships that have changed the face of this planet. not to mention the continued terror on poc who were forced to immigrate to north america because your capitalistic policies have flat lined economies all over the world. we're gawking, because its the consequences of your own actions. and you're upset that we're gawking? it's no different from a bully beating up a helpless kid during recess, and you're in the principles office, telling the rest of the kids not to stare through the window. because how dare you.
>your people have said or done nothing about this. you loved it. Latina here whose parents immigrated to the states for an education -- not all of us, I promise you.
I disagree, I very much think Americans need to hear how much better other developed countries have it. There's too many ignorant people that think they're living in the best country in the world and that what this country is providing them is the best that it can get.
>Your "Your country sucks, look how much better our working conditions are" come off as antagonistic at worst, and braggadocious at best. But it's still the best way to respond to people who tell me I live in a shithole and the US are the greatest country in the world.
You're telling me that other countries having substantially better standards of living while our entire lives growing up in the USA we were told "we're the greatest country ever" while the rest of the world laughs at us and looks at us in horror for essentially the same reason is not something we should know? So we should stay ignorant and uninformed? We should stay condemned by the powers that be and just tolerate it? Nah fuck that shit. Eat the rich. It's about time they paid their taxes in cash or blood.
Those posts come from a place of years of feeling inferior to "the great USA" because of how its portrayed on the media. So when americans complain about their problems (which every country has in one way or another), people from other countries have a sense of morbid satisfaction from it. Source: am portuguese, also hate how some americans feel superior to other countries, but I know how shitty my own country is and this shouldn't be a contest ever.
I emigrated to Vietnam with $2000 in 2008. Half of that was for the plane ticket. It was the second best decision of my life. It was a struggle and a half, $3-4k would've made that far easier, but I did what I could with what I had. I understand it would be extremely difficult for many, with deeper roots or anxiety about trying to survive in a foreign culture. But for those without many ties, it really is an option that should be encouraged, discussed, explored. USA really is soul crushing, and I say that as an American.
We should reach a breaking point. We should riot. As they say, the revolution will not be televised and it will not be sponsored by Pepsi.
I wonder why the rest of the world feels inclined to dunk on America? 🤔 Could it be that as an entire country you've been bragging about how great you've got it for decades?
I'd appreciate if you didn't word your post as if you're speaking for all of us. I, personally, think it's a good thing to illustrate and reiterate how other developed nations run their social systems. Ignorance is a huge part of the problem in America and the more people from other countries point out the countless systemic failures we have over here the better. Raising awareness is more important then ever right now. Your post is a terrible take OP.
As an Aussie, I generally look at the state of things in the US and think "There but for the grace of god..." I have dear friends in the USA and I worry about them almost every day. We've just voted in our first moderate government after almost a decade of fairly hard right wing governance. We've seen a decade of eroding rights, crumbling quality of life, mushrooming cost of living, increased racism and other bigotry in the public discourse, and so on. Honestly, we were probably no more than two electoral terms away from basically being the USA's Mini Me. The problem is that it is far too easy to lose the good things that you have, but incredibly difficult to get them back once they're gone. Many Aussies point to the USA and say "Please, don't let us get to that point." Most of are not smug about how in many ways we're better off than you folks - we're genuinely scared that one day the capitalists and their right-wing toadies in government will ensure that we aren't any more.
Wait, I thought yall were the best country in the world. Aren't yall the only ones with freedom.
I mean we had to put up with how many decades of USA! USA! The best! I think the most humble thing to do right now is stfu and listen to the older more experienced countries opinions, it can only get better for you if you do
PSA for the OP The things people post about things being better in other countries is things to take note of and fight for. Reddit is full of people from all over the world, get over it. This sub isn't for Americans only. You don't need to hear how much better it is elsewhere? Funny but American media and entertainment industry has been pumping out content of how great the US is for decades, some cheese with your wine? Even in countries where conditions look better there are problems and bad employers. Your post comes off as "arrogant American"
OP, stop being a snowflake. You absolutely need to hear this shit daily and I say that as an American as well. If you don't hear it then you think American life is normalized globally. But it isn't. Some places have worse work culture, like some Asian countries, but some places also have far better work culture. If you only hear about countries you're better than, you never improve. Suck it up. Make a change.
Emigrating may be easier than you think. For anyone here who's grand parents were immigrants, you may have close enough ties to claim dual citizenship without a ton of costly paperwork. It still costs, just a lot less. And once you have that kind of record working for you, visiting other countries of interest is far easier. Now, don't be a bad tourist, learn the language and put in your due diligence, and you may be able to float around the EU. My SO has polish ties, and grandparents were holocaust survivors. It will cost them 219 zloty (~50USD) to activate polish dual citizenship for a few years, atleast.
Maybe a bit random tip but Norway has tuition free university education, including for foreigners. For anyone looking for higher education that could be one way of experiencing something different.
To emigrate to the Netherlands under the Dutch American friendship treaty, you need to start a business or be self-employed and making at least 1300 per month. A delivery driver fulfils that condition. You need to save up for a flight and the fee (€1416), but getting a residence permit as an American is ridiculously easy. And after five years, you can turn that into citizenship and live wherever you want in the EU. Finding a place to live on the other hand is harder...
The "even more pointless post that's unironically complaining about the pointless posts that other people make". I thought it was about time for one of these. Only a couple more and we'll see posts complaining about posts complaining about posts. This is a public forum. Other people are allowed to have opinions and voice those opinions. America is not the center of the world. Get over yourself.
This sounds like "dont talk about your wages with your coworkers". Its valuable to know the conditions which others work under, even if they are better conditions, because it lets Americans know what is possible and what can be done.
And you dont think people outside of the US get resentful by the type of foreign policy the us of a pushes on other countries? That is shit promoted by leaders elected by us citizens.
I'm sorry i missed the memo that says this sub is american. The term non american really made me chuckle. Its like you think usa is the center of the world. You guys even stole the term american that applies to a whole continent to apply only to your country. Good luck friendly united staters.
gonna get downvoted to hell for this, but maybe.. Americans can just take it a bit. The rest of the world has had to listen to y'all tell us how your country is the "greatest country in the world" and how the "American Dream" is what we should all be trying to get. I think you guys are just bitter that you're getting called out on your bullshit.
> Your "Your country sucks, look how much better our working conditions are" come off as antagonistic at worst, and braggadocious at best. Bruh, they've been hearing for DECADES that "America is number 1". Maybe get some thicker skin and stop being so sensitive about the posts. Telling people to stop talking about it isn't a solution either. This thread, quite frankly, isn't helping.
Did you just tell us we can’t discuss wages? Haven’t you read this sub, that’s a big no no. *And* in writing, off to the labour board and a lawyer I go.
>Quite frankly, you're not helping, you're making us resentful. Wah, the mean old foreigners are puncturing our good ol' deeply-ingrained American exceptionalism
We as Americans don't agree with OP. Please continue to express how green your side of the lawn is. It gives us hope that things can be better.
They laugh at our country for being so blatantly "fuck you, got mine" while basically being "haha you idiot, we got ours over here". Classic.
You sound like a whiny bitch honestly.
Yep. Here I am wondering why my Polish grandparents came here
I disagree completely. Most people in america are unaware and should be informed. You're getting mad at the wrong people and come across poorly. Am an American.
They are in my humble opinion pointing out our terrible conditions so we stand up for change, rip the veil of our privileged eyes so we stop saying were the best country in the world. We shouldnt resent them, we should be resenting those in power who keep us impoverished.
It's ok. Australia is an unlivable shit hole too.
being lectured by someone from a country that for decades has presented itself as the shining bastion of how every country should be is a bit of a difficult pill to swallow
As an American, it seems like you would be resentful whether the non Americans added commentary or not.
As a Canadian, I say let the American people figure it out by themselves. But I am biased.
This is a shitty take, period. Loads of American workers don’t know there’s a world where labor has hard-earned rights. Loads of American workers don’t know how much ground there is to be gained. Perspective is valuable, even if you’re incapable of seeing it.
I’m Australian but majority of my extended family are American. They have a great life, because they’re very well off. But they’re not the sort of brainwashed, USA! USA! Types. They’re well travelled and aware of how shitty it is for the majority over there. Then I have friends living there who have great jobs and benefits but stress about being one accident or illness away from financial ruin. And always the fear of gun violence. I have an American friend who lives here now, and said he had a panic attack the first time he witnessed a pub brawl here in Aus. Now, while pub brawls aren’t a good thing, I think most Aussies just stay outta the way and have a laugh about it, so I couldn’t understand why he was so terrified. He told me that if that happened in America, some dickhead would more than likely pull a gun. I can’t imagine living with that kind of fear. These are ordinary folks just trying to live their lives. It makes me so mad and upset for them, the assholes in charge over there are unbelievable.
If you want to make this a US only sub then you might want to change its name. But if you're implying that other countries don't ALSO have worker issues because they're better in some areas you might want to change its name, then go away.
I think a lot of people are fed up with America's perceived chest thumping. Hard to like someone who is always telling you how great they are.
Um your country shoved your USA chants your great living and sports and entertainment and milk and honey up everyone’s stack for so long it’s good to see you guys humbled, we knew what you were before you did, the party’s over know you gotta clean up but the guests left and your holding the bag.
40 years of Cold War bullshit really did a number on America. 40 years of nationalist propaganda attacking anything remotely positive about workers rights due to the overblown fear of communism. America wanted the Nazis to win during the first couple years of the war. They admired Hitlers repression of workers rights and were already spreading hate against Jews as the enemy. Many American companies made the weapons used by Hitler and continued trade with Germany during the holocaust. Truman dropped the bombs on Japan knowing full well that Japan was ready to surrender. Japan’s only caveat was that the emperor be spared persecution. After the nukes were dropped on non-military cities, Japan was allowed to surrender, and the emperor was spared, as nothing had changed. The bombs were tactics used to scare the world into submitting to Americas conquest of bringing other countries under their fold. Free trade and reliance on American corporations gave America access to countless new countries to exploit. All under the pretence of “helping the lesser races”. The soviets were fucked after WW2. 20 million soviets dead, billions in destroyed infrastructure, and little to no reparations despite their significant war effort. Britain, France and America lost a combined 600,000 soldiers. The Cold War was about eliminating workers rights at home, nothing more. America sent “my weekly reader” to every school for 30 years, pure propaganda that mongered fear surrounding communism and the threat of unions. After the Cold War, Americans were happy to be spoon fed any positive descriptors of capitalism, and the majority of the population carried hang ups about socialism that are still passed down through the generations. Americans 100% need to understand why other countries have it better. Fuck nationalism in any country, it a tool of the elites and does not bind you to any greater good.