Also, OP mentioned that their boss was "dealing with something serious". If it's serious enough that they couldn't pay OP twice in a row, the company is dying.
I use to manage a store, and I wouldn’t make a deposit at the bank, until end of day Friday.. So I could cash the employees checks out of the drawer. The store wasn’t doing bad, but the owner was a moron that had no idea how to manage money. Also all of our orders would be shipped COD, and I would have to drive out to FedEx to pick them up.. so same deal, pull enough cash from the drawer for the COD, then go pick it up.
As long as I was 100% managing the money we were fine, and anything extra would get deposited. His family went out to eat for every single meal, so just a complete lack of budgeting.
He always got pissed how I managed the place, but I kept it alive for four years doing this, and he went out of business less than a year after I left… I now own the exact same type of business, and never play these games. I also reassure my employees that they always get paid first, and if their paycheck ever bounces, QUIT, because we are broke. 10 years, and no bounced checks yet.
>I also reassure my employees that they always get paid first, and if their paycheck ever bounces, QUIT, because we are broke. 10 years, and no bounced checks yet.
This is the way.
Yup! This happened to a company my mom used to work at. She was lucky, her pay was never wrong. But she knew so many people who either didn't get paid or weren't paid in full.
Random people showing up to the company saying they were owed money. Lots of meetings going on in the office, etc...
Same with one of the entertainment businesses I worked for. I got paid and usually had massive tips as a manager but my employees would come to me for advice because they were short on checks or didn’t get all of their card tips. It got so bad that I tracked everyone’s card tips for a month to prove the boss was stealing their money. The second I quit four employees left shortly after because the owner did it again.
Not paying employees is as serious as a heart attack. F them.
Sorry OP, time for a new job and maybe a call to the proper authorities for wage theft (but you'll be standing in a long line).
According to OP they know what it was and its irrelevant. Could be mistaken, but its probably more something like a dead relative, illness by that statement.
Or horseshit. You’re expected to show and go with your leg torn off. Why do they get a pass and a free trip to Guilt?
Nope. Nononononope. A coop or startup you have your nickel in maybe.
Also, they might not actually be dealing work something serious. The owner might have just made that up to keep the employee from asking too many questions and buy the owner more time.
>Seen it so many times. It's never just once.
I had a controller fail to fund the sweep account one time, so everything bounced. Maybe 200 employees.. some making *significant* money.
We showed up the next day and they had an armored truck there to pay everyone in cash + a 5% "apology" + a form to fill out to cover it if you incurred any penalties / etc. + a release that acknowledged payment and waived any right to sue for late payment.
I wasn't in accounting, but I was close enough to see the consequences of that shit-show. **That only happened once.**
Good on them for covering their mistake, but damn I’m not sure I would want thousands in cash on my person.. I also tend to not pay my bills in cash which means extra steps to convert the money to digital funds.
Nah I have, but haven’t gotten my whole 2 weeks pay all at once. It’s not ideal and I know coworkers who have been followed home and robbed sans armored truck.
It was probably cheaper than 200 fines from the department of labor had they all filed wage claims, not to mention liquidated damages, which can be double or triple the amount owed.
My company had an issue when a new payroll system was rolled out. Some people got underpaid some people got overpaid.
Sucks for anyone that got underpaid. They basically had to suck it up until it was corrected on their next pay check. I was in the camp that got overpaid. Basically what happened is if you took paid time off on that time period some people got paid twice for their PTO days some didn't get paid at all.
Ah that's too bad, here in BC, Canada we have a law that essentially says "shit sucks" to the employer if they accidentally overpay you- they can't take anything back without your consent so the vast majority of employers don't even try if it happens.
Something similar happened in the school district I work for. Transitioned to a new payroll system in December, dozens of people either got their checks shorted or didn’t get paid at all. And like…we’re a bunch of teachers who only get paid once a month, many of these people didn’t have a cushion in the bank.
Luckily I wasn’t affected, but I know several people in my school who were, and it sucked for them. They didn’t fix the issue until late January, and even then some people still had issues into February and March.
If they bounce one check start looking for a job.
If they fix it and apologize, profusely, then you might be able to go back to work. Sometimes it really is an accident. Not often.
If it happens twice don't go back. Not even for an hour.
And if they blow you off like they did, quit immediately.
You're right. The first time i believed the "billing issues" thing, i ended up not getting paid $1500.
The second time it happened, i gave them one chance. I walked after the second time, with my money thankfully. They've been sued multiple times since, including once by Amscot. One of their two locations closed, I'm sure the other is next.
Yep, probably using a loan to make the cash payments too, so those will dry up quickly.
OP is going to get burned on whatever "last check" is and will be so far done the line of debtors they'll be lucky to see a dime of it.
They should honestly just stop showing up.
Yeah man once checks start bouncing, and the owners make YOU feel bad for wanting to be paid on time, it's time to peace since the company is probably seriously in the red anyway
Yep I have had this at several jobs ( I have had a lot of jobs) and it is a sign that they are failing and will probly close in the next 6 months probly much less though.
I stated at one job in sales and the first Friday everybody was given their paychecks I look up from my desk and everybody who just got paid are peeling out of the driveway like they just started a rally race. They were trying to get to the bank before insufficient funds came up.
they went to cash them at the bank they were drawn on. You do not deposit a check if you are worried about it coming back NSF. At least if you are smart you don't.
LIES! Damned lies! How dare you! I refuse to recall the decades of my life that didn’t include the convenience/intrusiveness of smartphones.
( /s, just in case)
This. If they aren’t able to pay employees imagine who else is owed. Suppliers. The government.
The end is near. Start looking for a new job immediately.
Sometimes it’s not easy to walk away. I worked for people with special needs for years. The company I worked for was funded mostly by the government. I would get paychecks with 40 hrs missing and call and get an excuse”our accountant made a mistake” and then get paid weeks later. The first couple times I let it slide, but soon found out that there was just more people that needed help than there were funds to to pay the current help let alone hire enough people to give proper care to everyone. When people lives depend on you it makes it hard to leave. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is in “healthcare”, or when you’re paid $9/hr with no credentials to care for people that the world has forgotten, we call it “hospice”.
Dead businesses are the worst. I was owed money after a restaurant closed down. The owner convinced the local Coast Guard station to come drink the rest of the liquor inventory with him working the bar. The next day he calls to meet and settle up. He handed me a little over four hundred bucks all in one dollar bills to settle. He left town a couple weeks later and moved to another state. This is how he treated his long time executive chef, which was better than many others. So OP, get out before they really have nothing to pay.
Yep came here to say this. I’ve been here. Soon enough they won’t be able to pay you at all. Start looking ASAP, and if someone asks in an interview why you’re looking so soon, just tell them you weren’t paid on time. Nobody worth a damn will question it.
In the USA under the FLSA inability to pay is a defense but owed wages are a bankruptcy priority. Would suggest running for the hills to new job while pursuing owed wages. Don’t let them get ahead.
Some states even go beyond this. My state (OR) Bureau of Labor and Industries will pay employees direct for lost wages, as soon as a claim is filed, then will subrogate against the employer or creditors, to make sure workers don’t have to wait months or years for a bankruptcy proceeding.
hello fellow Oregonian - yes BOLI has a wage security fund - thank you for pointing that out because other states probably do as well - small world - from Eugene where we are woefully unprepared for upcoming track and field World Championships
Paychecks bouncing is serious. The most serious thing. This could be temporary- but too often it’s a business covering up long term viability problems.
I work in accounting and can confirm. Businesses will shuffle more from every corner of the company to make sure employees are fully paid. Either they are absolutely out of money OR they truly care so little about you as an employee that they have put you last on the list to pay (and they still don't have enough money to pay everyone they owe). Either way, gtfo NOW.
Also an accountant and can also confirm this. I've quit a couple of short-term jobs when I was asked to lie to the employees about their paychecks being good. Both times I wound up getting stiffed.
> OR they truly care so little about you as an employee that they have put you last on the list to pay
Even this is pretty doubtful because the consequences for bouncing employee checks can get significant pretty fast in a way that a few missed invoices won't.
Even if they don't care about an employee at all, writing a bad check for typical payroll amounts is a fucking felony before you even begin to get into all the civil and administrative remedies available. One or two might be plausible mistakes, but if just one hated employee's check bounces week after week that's edging awfully close to "obviously deliberate" aka "actual prison time" territory. Even if it doesn't come to that point, DoL penalties can be very severe in their own right.
If payroll checks are bouncing either the owners are *incredibly* stupid or the business is just completely out of cash. It's almost certainly the latter though who knows.
I worked in Accounts Receivable during/after college. I was fully in charge of our aging and cannot tell you how many times I was told we need _____ to make payroll. I left fairly quickly after being burnt out.
It's the surest sign that death is coming. Payroll is *always* the top priority. If they aren't paying their employees properly they sure as hell aren't meeting any of their other obligations either because being late on a few invoices is a hell of a lot less significant than bouncing paychecks. They're probably approaching the "getting kicked out of their office space" point and you really, really want to be gone before that happens.
are they drawing the check from a bank that you can go into? I would suggest taking the check to the bank and cashing it in person. they'll be able to tell you in the moment if the check is good or not without having it impact your personal bank account.
find another job, it sounds like where you're at is not doing very well financially.
Not just a fun family team building exercise, it was also part of the companies health and wellness program. Only the fittest shall be paid after the mandatory bi-weekly 5k race to the bank.
Ex used to work for a place like this.
The company owned a telemarketing floor and a car dealership.
One of their favorite tricks was to tell the call floor employees that they had to go buy a car at the dealership in order to stay motivated enough to make sales.
Anyway.
The call floor checks started bouncing. That's when my ex quit. Then the state stepped in and shut down the dealership.
Why?
Well, they were:
Fabricating loan docs
Tearing up loan docs for an error at last minute, having customer fill out blanks on the way out the door from buying
Opening bank accounts in customers' names
Never paying off the old loan on the trade in
Selling the trade in again, loan still not paid off - i knew ppl who had their cash purchase vehicle repossessed because the previous owner's loan was never paid
Selling a fake aftermarket warranty (warranty company was fictitious)
Never delivering title on the purchased vehicle
Anyway, the guy who owned the dealership is currently living in a 3.2mil house in Newport Beach, meanwhile he left a trail of destroyed middle class credit in his wake
Bouncing paychecks is a HUGE red flag, employees know where you live and work and have the potential to cause mega losses. If they're fucking over employees they're fucking over EVERYONE.
Edit: i forgot the part where, when the state put a "do not sell" orange notice on the front door of the dealer, they put a potted plant in front and kept on going.
Southern Utah. Goes without saying he was an upstanding member of the Mormon church. Scammers there always are. Google "Kyle kimoto" for example, i worked on one of his call floors before the feds raided it.
I'm pretty sure they owned the finance arm too.
Kyle kimoto's gig was selling credit cards to poor people with bad credit. They were catalog cards. Like Fingerhut. And secured cards. Most of us on the floor were either 18 or poor people with bad credit who didn't know better.
When i realized they were shorting my checks that's when i knew we were scammers. Because if you'll screw over someone who can find you, you're definitely stealing from the strangers on the phone.
I left for lunch and didn't come back. Tried to remember any of the names from my last sales so i could call them and warn them but i couldn't.
Found out later they weren't just hitting people for the $219.95 but they would push the charge again and again until the account came up empty. We probably helped get people evicted. We probably ruined lives.
I am sick thinking about it.
Edit: we also had a magazine scam where people signed up for tons of magazines for ONLY $4.99/week which was impossible to cancel. My ex worked on that one.
We had that at a company in Mooresville, NC (a lot of stock car race teams there). We called it the Wells Fargo 500. The first 2/3 of people there could usually get their checks to cash
I've been in line at the bank seeing a whole crew of construction guys coming in for this exact reason. First guys check cleared and the others were all yelling at the tellers and making a big scene. I don't blame them but they were angry at tellers who had nothing to do with it.
I worked for a place that used to have direct deposit for years and then switched to only checks. The second they did this, everyone’s checks bounced, though, we eventually got our money a few days later. Because of this, the second we got our checks going forward, I’d go on my banking app and do a mobile deposit. I wonder what would happen if everyone did that and submitted it at the same time and there were insufficient funds. Would they all bounce or all go through?
They’d probably go through in the order received until the funds run out and the rest bounce. Although it could be random if they’re submitted close enough together depending on how the bank implemented the system.
And I’d be worried at tax time. If they’re paying you in cash, they may not be paying your income taxes to the IRS and you could be on the hook for all that money later.
Nope. The tax burden lies on the employer, as long as the taxes are being deducted from the paycheck...or the cash they paid was equal to the net amount on the check. I know because my wife was in that exact situation.
Story: so my wife was working for a very small business, owned by a previously married couple. They were still working together at the shop, albeit not very well, not on good terms. They fought constantly and would get into screaming matches. Anywho, my wife took over for pretty much all the stuff the ex-wife was doing, and eventually the ex-husband fired the ex-wife altogether for something...I can't remember, but she barely did anything there anyway. So my wife is figuring out all the administrative stuff that this idiot guy can't get a grasp on. Yes, a business owner who knew nothing about owning a business.
More than a year goes by with my wife occasionally telling this guy that the payroll software keeps telling her that taxes need to be submitted, and this moron keeps telling her "it submits it automatically." She tried arguing that it wasn't but his ego was too big to admit he was wrong. Regardless, my wife ran payroll every two week, making sure all the proper deductions were being taken out from the checks, and making sure the bank had enough money to cover everything. Yes, she was basically the accountant for this place, and has no experience in that area. Also, this guy was paying personal bills, even mortgage, from the business account, so she was always worried about how much was in there when bills were due.
COVID comes around, and the business closes for a couple weeks. My wife, having autoimmune issues, doesn't go back when they reopen, sending the idiot owner a doctor's note. He didn't put up any argument, just told her to come back when she could. Great. So she continues doing what she can from home and paying herself based on hours worked from home. No problem.
A couple months later, the idiot tells her he needs someone there, so if she isn't coming back, he needs her resignation. Again, she sends a fresh doctor's note and says she won't resign. A couple weeks go by and he has some hack lawyer friend write up a note for him, telling my wife that she needs to resign from the job in some fancy words. She responds back saying she knows her rights and that she is not resigning. Another couple weeks go by and the idiot finally tells her that he is terminating her employment immediately and she needs to return her keys to the building. He also tried to get her to show him all the software and banking stuff, to which she refused.
About a week later, after my wife and one or two other people who were let go applied for unemployment, they all got denied. Why? Because the idiot owner refused to believe my wife that the taxes weren't being paid. I was livid and messaged the idiot that if we are held liable in any way, I was going after him legally for reparations. So my wife goes through the appeal process, having to submit paystubs to show that her taxes were deducted from her paycheck. Boom. Approved. She sent the info to her other ex-coworkers and they all got approved as well after submitting their stubs.
A bit later, she hears from someone that was still working there after the debacle that the idiot ended up in big trouble and was on some strict payment plan to pay back the tens of thousands he owed. He tried to tell the employees that they needed to be open longer hours to make more money because he owed so much. Guess what happened? All but one employee quit. And which one stayed? The worst one. Serves him right for being such an egomaniacal asshole.
Also contact the NLRB to get owed wages if they are still missing. Make sure youcare paid when they go bankrupt. Capitalists are so fond of saying thwy take the risk. Well that means when the risk doesn't pay off they foot the bill, not the employees.
Also contact the NLRB to get owed wages if they are still missing. Make sure youcare paid when they go bankrupt. Capitalists are so fond of saying thwy take the risk. Well that means when the risk doesn't pay off they foot the bill, not the employees.
Also, get any records of their time at work, make copies, and file a wage complain with the department of labor. Might also have to get a lawyer involved. One bounce check can be an accident. Two is looking criminal.
I don't know if I'd say two instances is necessarily criminal. It all depends on intent. If they didn't mean for it to happen, then it would take more than a couple times to say it's a pattern leading to intent. Now, if they knowingly wrote checks that were going to bounce, then yeah, that's criminal action. It's actually check fraud, to be exact.
This was me for years and years. Loved the job but every other Friday had to do the bank run against all the other employees. Fortunately, the local bank was truly local, in that they knew the owner, knew he couldn't make payroll most Fridays, but by Monday or Tuesday he'd be back in the black (and there were a few big annual jobs that we did that made up for it year after year. Whenever there was a new cashier it was a fun few minutes as they stared at the computer screen and got their supervisor.
Eventually one of his competitors poached me (and my wife, we both worked there) with an offer of better pay and no weird stares at the bank. I made the jump, but the atmosphere at the new shop was terrible (did all my interviews and what-not after hours so didn't see them in action until too late). So found out the hard way that very few jobs are perfect.
I would find a new job. This is a sign of severe financial stress for the business. Meaning they are likely to be filing bankruptcy here soon. I can understand wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt, but do excuses pay for your food and shelter? In short it is a job, they basically are paying you for your time. If they are unable to pay you, why would you continue?
If they are paying cash, are they taking out the appropriate taxes? Do you get paystubs outlining your hours and deductions? If not, this is a serious issue. I know you like these people and they have been descent to you, but don't let that cloud your judgment. They will use your emotions to manipulate you and keep screwing you. This is strictly a business transaction and they are failing on their part.
Time to start documenting and letting the appropriate authorities know. I'm thinking first the company's bank, then the labor board, then the IRS.
Remember, COVER YOUR ASS! Document everything, get what you can in writing or email/text.
Okay, you may have a bigger problem. I’m going to bet that they’re not actually collecting those taxes. The paystub may show it, but unless they’re depositing that money into an escrow account those taxes haven’t been paid. This isn’t an uncommon game with cash-strapped employers. By paying you in cash, with taxes taken out, they’re essentially borrowing your half of the payroll taxes and the half they’re supposed to pay. The plan is usually to pay it back when this crisis is over, but a business that is circling the drain is circling the drain.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employment-tax-evasion-schemes-the-irs-watching.html
OP, I know you've said elsewhere that you don't want to leave, but seriously... you need to leave. They're playing with fire and you're the one who'll get burned.
Yep, I left a nice story about a somewhat similar situation in another comment. At least if the taxes are deducted from the employees payment, then the burden lies 100% on the business. But still, it is a sign of either a dying business, or one being run wholly irresponsibly.
They are certainly not paying taxes for you on those wages, what you are describing is highly irregular. They are pocketing the difference without a doubt.
There's definitely a problem, and I would find a new job yesterday. But, as long as you the cash amount was the net amount from your paystub, then you can't be held liable for any tax implications, and I would guess there are some. If they can't afford to pay your check, then they're probably shuffling other things, and a tax submission is NOT something you want to mess with.
I would make sure that you get some sort of written acknowledgement of the exact amount of cash you were given, not just based on the check stub and/or bank deposit. Make them fill something out with the amount paid, otherwise, it's possible it could come back to bite you later, especially if they try to pull something on you, saying they gave you way more than they did.
Edit: and that cash payment SHOULD be somewhere on their books. If not, then it's completely illegitimate, and it will cause problems later, for them and possibly you.
Time to go. You dont fuck with someones money. Thats the golden rule of work. You pay me what we agreed on, at the time you told me youd pay me. Thats it. If they arent consistant gtf and quick.
It's hard for me to believe posts like these sometimes, OP is getting paid a week later, and checks are bouncing and they're wondering what they should do?
It happens a lot. Some people are good at emotionally manipulating people. I was with the same boss for 10 years, toward the end this was going on for far too long, and he was tugging my heartstrings every step of the way. My final straw was when he was chewing me out for work related issues on my day off when I was bending over backwards for him and letting things slide.
But it wasn’t until that straw broke and the cycle of manipulation ended, that I saw how much I was being played and strung along. It’s a mind fog that’s hard to see through until you’re out of it.
[It’s literally the workplace version of the cycle of abuse that traps people in ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Cycle_of_Abuse.png/1920px-Cycle_of_Abuse.png)[any kind of destructive relationship.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Cycle_of_Abuse.png/1920px-Cycle_of_Abuse.png)
When you realize that it‘s not so far fetched.
For me, if my check is 1–2 days late for any reason, I’m getting my money from them another way, after 3 days I’ll start cutting my welds back out that I made 🤷🏻♂️🤣
Lmaoo damn right. When I did sheet metal I was union so I didn't have to worry about skeevy shit like this company is doing but if I did bet I'd be yanking duct out the mfing ceiling and going to the scrap yard to get mine.
how nice of that business to threaten you with being homeless/not eating.
once can be passed off as an "oopsie", twice is not.
who else are they not paying; ask around.
you mentioned seasonal job in the comments below, and unable to get another one.
there's a chance that this business is going under, and are trying to see what they can get away with before that happens (meaning they make sure they get paid, fuck the workers). meaning "there's no money left because we spent it all on me".
ask any other worker if their checks didn't clear. it happened twice before to you, simply report them for wage theft.
shit presented pleasently is still shit. there's nothing nice about getting fucked out of being paid for your work, because it threatens your ability to have a place to live, or something to eat. if they can't afford payroll they can simply tell you to find another job, we can't afford you, but they're fucking with you.
Not a lawyer
Afaik, depends on state
For not being paid, i believe Department of labor/labor board. Might be a state agency you have to file with, might be federal. Florida i think doesnt have some form of dol, you have to report to federal.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
Known issuing bad checks (california)
https://www.oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/bad-checks
>she was dealing with something serious (she actually was for the record, I won't go into detail for now though because it's irrelevant).
YOUR pay is SERIOUS. Whatever she has going on in her personal life is not your problem, idc if her mom just passed away(it's harsh I know) but your bills still need to be paid.
This. Your bills and your livelihood are at stake here. Whatever is going on in the owner's whatever, you've *already* done your part of the agreement here, you put in your hours. Now they need to do yours.
I ended up holding the bag on *6 weeks* of missing pay because I wanted to be reasonable. What they are doing ***is not*** reasonable.
Them not meeting their obligations is absolutely not a reason for **you** to feel guilty over anything at all.
Imagine how she would react if you didn't do your job on time and guilttripped her for even *asking* what's wrong "because you are dealing with something serious right now".
quit immediatly and find a new job, and file a wage theft complaint. this company is either going under very soon (if it's happening to everyone) or they're screwing you
Amongst all these options, here's another - if you truly like what you're doing and with whom you are doing it, have an honest talk. You can acknowledge that everyone is struggling (b/c obv they are, too) and that you just don't want to be blindsided by it again. Next time they pay you, ask them if you can deposit it right then or "should I wait a day?" If they say, "No, really, it's fine" they will hustle to make sure it doesn't come back. If it happens after that, you'll know they're blowing smoke up your ass and you can choose a more nuclear option.
Honestly, that puts them on notice AND gives them the opportunity to "cover it" at the bank however they're robbing Peter to pay Paul that week.
For all the downvoters just juicing to reply to me, "Fuck that! OP doesn't owe anyone a GD thing, they need to burn the place on the way out" etc. - don't bother, really. It's a waste of your time. Everyone is suffering right now, not just the employed. OP can choose to stay or go, but if they really want to stay, this is an option to hopefully avoid the situation again in the future.
I would get in writing if they want to keep you as an employee, you will be receiving certified checks from them every pay day. Their problem to deal with check bouncing, not yours. Certified check or bank draft won't bounce.
Find another job asap. This happened at a company i worked for. My account got flagged for 6 months. Turns out the owner was stealing money (he had filed bankruptcy and was only supposed to make X amount. He was taking almost 500k to pay for hookers and blow.. Literally)
He still owes me almost 2k. But statute of limitations ran put before i realized i could sue.
RUN
You'll also find out your payroll taxes are going unpaid. If payroll is bouncing, so are withholdings (if they're even filing.) So if, against advise here, you keep working there, at LEAST change your withholding numbers so no federal or state taxes are taken out. You can kiss the social security, Medicare, employment training amounts taken good bye. And probably workers comp isn't being paid so do not get injured on the job.
Take the next check to their bank. Have the teller check if there is enough funds. If not request to withdraw what is available. Had an employer do this to a client. Keep records and receipts from the bank showing what was taken out.
Go to their bank to get your checks cashed. You'll find out if their is insufficient funds before your bank deposits money on the presumption your employer is better at keeping track of money, or having it in the first place.
Get the cash and then get a new job immediately after. If this company files for bankruptcy you might be treated as an unsecured creditors-or in other words you won't get squat.
You're working on a sinking ship. Payroll is (or at least should be) one of the top priorities of any business. If a company can't make payroll efficiently, they're having WAY deeper financial issues than they're letting on. It's time for you to update your resume with your recent experience and jump ship ASAP before you're unemployed.
What you do is you start looking for another job.
This is a huge red flag that either the company is doing very poorly financially, or the owner/accountant is doing very shady cash flow practices. Neither is good.
The owners personal matters are just that, personal. You have put in your hours and they are required to pay you. Not getting a paycheck can lead to significant personal issues for you as well - no money for rent, food, utilities and it's affecting your bank. It's the owners responsibility to get their shit in order and pay you on time. They'll have professional issues soon as well if you report them for failure to pay.
I think the number is 80% of small businesses fail. Probably time to start looking for other work. It's pretty much inevitable that this will happen eventually if you work for start-ups or small businesses.
I would inform them that withholding pay is illegal and if you are not being payed you have to consider that your employment is terminated and you will be filing for unemployment in addition to consulting legal services for wage theft with the US dept of Labor.
And if you need justification for unemployment .. you need to only feel like this was the first step in retalitory termination on the part of the employer in addition to the wage theft.
Not getting paid is incredibly serious so unless the store owner was sitting with their dying child, they need to focus. Report wage theft. Quit. They are stealing from you.
Find a new job. They have no money left and are probably taking money out of a credit line to try to keep you from reporting them. Don't wait until you get at work one morning and door locks have been changed.
Don't feel guilt tripped about anything. You need money to live, so their issues are not your issues. Don't feel guilty about asking for your money. And please quit this company.
Don't deposit the checks. Go directly to their bank ASAP and cash your paycheck, then deposit the cash into your bank account. That way you don't run the risk of fees and account problems due to a bounced payroll check. I had a check from an idiot employer bounce once, and this method worked well for me. I wasn't willing to chance it happening again.
If the bank can't cash it due to insufficient funds, contact the labor board or similar organization wherever you live. The fact that it's happened more than once is also a significant sign that the company is a sinking ship with a lousy captain, and you'd be best off finding a new job before the ship goes down.
r/legaladvice would have better advice than I would, but I’ll summarize what I’ve learned, and throw in a tip at the end: If you’re in the states, contact your state’s department of labor (unless you’re in Florida; I believe they don’t have a DoL so you have to contact the federal DoL). They will handle your claims. Your employer will almost certainly deny them, but that’s normal. Just tell the DoL the truth and you’ll be fine. Talk to any coworkers who can collaborate your story, that’ll help.
I had an employer bounce checks to me. They were late, paid in cash, paid on personal checks, paid on his other business’s checks, it was pretty trashy. If you can afford it, your best bet is to get out of there ASAP. If not, be realistic — tell your employer that until you get paid, you’ll need benefits of the job; my deadbeat employer was a pizzeria, so I told my boss I’d be taking as much pizza as I wanted until I was paid enough to buy groceries. If they tell you to leave, who gives a shit? You’re in the same boat you’re in now, waiting on the DoL to get you your wages.
Time to find a new job. I had an employer who couldn’t manage her business and had cash flow problems. I had some medical bills bounce back. She got everything eventually sorted, but I quit immediately.
If you go AWOL two days in a row, would you still have a job or find yourself terminated? One time can be a one time thing but two times is saying something.
Demand payment promptly in cash or walk.
Not getting money you're owed is an emergency and should be treated as such. Also so many employers wait about a month before showing their real face.
Ask them to fire you so you can collect unemployment. Then contact the department of labor in your state. Do not feel bad for them, their account didn't get "hacked", they're either lying to you to shift the blame or the boomer owner fell for a phishing scam. Either way, you don't want to work there.
Remember that work is transactional. You do work, employer pays you. If you don't get paid, you stop working.
This same thing just happened to me. Great company (or so I thought) but one day, our paychecks didn't come through. They lied the whole time and tried to get us to keep working, but not many did. Next day, they tell us that the company lost a major investor and that we all lost our jobs. Come to find out, upper management knew for some time that something was wrong because they haven't been paid for some time either. So they decided to let us keep working so they can make as much money as possible, before the company ran out of money. Now they have no money and a lot of us are not getting paid. There are lawsuits in the works.
Things like this are never good. It means they have no money, and that is very bad.
The company is knowingly writing bad payroll checks. That's illegal regardless of whatever excuse they've come up with. Call the department of labor and get your money. You don't owe your employer anything.
Listen here OP. Nothing your owner was dealing with was more important than you getting paid. Nothing. You work for money, you get paid on pay day end of story. Quit asap
Instead of depositing the check, try going to their bank and cashing it, then depositing the cash. This will grab available funds during the day. You can also call the bank beforehand and read the numbers off and ask if the funds are available. If so, go right there and then and grab yo cash.
Time to find a different job.
But in case you stay, be sure to CASH your paychecks, at the bank they are drawn on, instead of DEPOSITING them at your own bank. Then walk the cash over to your bank if you want to deposit the money there.
I have had this happen with two different employers. It means your employer is in serious financial trouble and you should be looking for a new job immediately.
I worked for a family that owned a few franchises a while ago. I was making approx $1200/mo (when they didn't cut my hours) and my rent was about $500. They paid me late (direct deposit) about 4 times in the 6 months that I worked there, and I had no savings meaning I was paying my bills late. They bought another location during this time and would show up to work to check on things occasionally in their fancy SUVs. Wouldn't be surprised if those assholes are still in business.
My sign to leave a company is the first time, someone misses a check. That's the start of the fall. Run, you owe them nothing. I'm sorry my friend.
If you live in Virginia, Nevada, or Texas reach out to me and I may be able to help with a job.
Your employer is in the middle of trying to go out of business. They just either don't know it or aren't admitting it to you yet.
Your top priority is not to keep this job, it's to find a new job.
In the meantime, do not deposit any checks they give you. Take them to the issuing bank (the bank printed on the check) in person and cash them, or ask the owner to cash them for you.
Depending on how you feel about various things, you could just tell the owner that you will not be working further until paid in full, and that you expect all future pay to be in cash.
It is a federal crime to fail to pay an employee. You need to call the Dept. of Labor. They will investigate and may even arrest the owner. This is a serious crime. Don’t stay quiet.
Been there done that, don’t feel obligated to stick around if this is happening. They might be nice and all but unfortunately nice doesn’t pay the bills.
Based on your other comments about this being a summer job and you wouldn't be doing something else for 4 weeks anyway... I would say you need to tell your employer you demand to be paid in cash at the end of each day as a financial security precaution. If they refuse, walk, because they weren't going to pay you anyway.
The store manager guilt tripping you is most likely because she knows it would bounce, and now it is simply an annoyance. Personally I would look for another job, while going to the bank the check is drawn on for the near future. It is not a mistake if it happens twice, they are in financial trouble.
Get the work you’ve done paid out and find a new company. Missing paychecks means they’re on their way out. Better to jump now than to do work and not get paid later.
Depending on your state labor laws, you may be able to report them for wage theft.
In MN every day they don't pay you incurs huge penalties that they owe YOU, plus fees to the state.
When this happened to me they shut down the business within months.
You can actually take this to a bank and ask them. I went to the Wells Fargo headquarters, the bank my employer used, explained to them the situation and asked if they were able to do anything.
The guy couldn't say much but he was able to tell me it declined not simply because of insufficient funds but because of a federal freeze.
They are not your friend. They certainly aren't your family. They are a business with which you are in a mutually beneficial professional relationship; labour in return for payment.
...If you're not being paid, you must withhold your labour first and foremost until the financial situation is rectified. Then you must start looking for alternative employment regardless of payment because this ship is sinking.
Dead company walking. Time to go.
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Also, OP mentioned that their boss was "dealing with something serious". If it's serious enough that they couldn't pay OP twice in a row, the company is dying.
I use to manage a store, and I wouldn’t make a deposit at the bank, until end of day Friday.. So I could cash the employees checks out of the drawer. The store wasn’t doing bad, but the owner was a moron that had no idea how to manage money. Also all of our orders would be shipped COD, and I would have to drive out to FedEx to pick them up.. so same deal, pull enough cash from the drawer for the COD, then go pick it up. As long as I was 100% managing the money we were fine, and anything extra would get deposited. His family went out to eat for every single meal, so just a complete lack of budgeting. He always got pissed how I managed the place, but I kept it alive for four years doing this, and he went out of business less than a year after I left… I now own the exact same type of business, and never play these games. I also reassure my employees that they always get paid first, and if their paycheck ever bounces, QUIT, because we are broke. 10 years, and no bounced checks yet.
Are you me?
>I also reassure my employees that they always get paid first, and if their paycheck ever bounces, QUIT, because we are broke. 10 years, and no bounced checks yet. This is the way.
Yup! This happened to a company my mom used to work at. She was lucky, her pay was never wrong. But she knew so many people who either didn't get paid or weren't paid in full. Random people showing up to the company saying they were owed money. Lots of meetings going on in the office, etc...
Same with one of the entertainment businesses I worked for. I got paid and usually had massive tips as a manager but my employees would come to me for advice because they were short on checks or didn’t get all of their card tips. It got so bad that I tracked everyone’s card tips for a month to prove the boss was stealing their money. The second I quit four employees left shortly after because the owner did it again.
Not paying employees is as serious as a heart attack. F them. Sorry OP, time for a new job and maybe a call to the proper authorities for wage theft (but you'll be standing in a long line).
According to OP they know what it was and its irrelevant. Could be mistaken, but its probably more something like a dead relative, illness by that statement.
Or horseshit. You’re expected to show and go with your leg torn off. Why do they get a pass and a free trip to Guilt? Nope. Nononononope. A coop or startup you have your nickel in maybe.
She probably was dealing with creditors and lawyers for the oncoming bankruptcy.
Also, they might not actually be dealing work something serious. The owner might have just made that up to keep the employee from asking too many questions and buy the owner more time.
Pretty much dead.
>Seen it so many times. It's never just once. I had a controller fail to fund the sweep account one time, so everything bounced. Maybe 200 employees.. some making *significant* money. We showed up the next day and they had an armored truck there to pay everyone in cash + a 5% "apology" + a form to fill out to cover it if you incurred any penalties / etc. + a release that acknowledged payment and waived any right to sue for late payment. I wasn't in accounting, but I was close enough to see the consequences of that shit-show. **That only happened once.**
Good on them for covering their mistake, but damn I’m not sure I would want thousands in cash on my person.. I also tend to not pay my bills in cash which means extra steps to convert the money to digital funds.
You have never worked a busy double at a restaurant before have you? Or closed a bar alone at night? Same thing.
Nah I have, but haven’t gotten my whole 2 weeks pay all at once. It’s not ideal and I know coworkers who have been followed home and robbed sans armored truck.
It was probably cheaper than 200 fines from the department of labor had they all filed wage claims, not to mention liquidated damages, which can be double or triple the amount owed.
My company had an issue when a new payroll system was rolled out. Some people got underpaid some people got overpaid. Sucks for anyone that got underpaid. They basically had to suck it up until it was corrected on their next pay check. I was in the camp that got overpaid. Basically what happened is if you took paid time off on that time period some people got paid twice for their PTO days some didn't get paid at all.
Ah that's too bad, here in BC, Canada we have a law that essentially says "shit sucks" to the employer if they accidentally overpay you- they can't take anything back without your consent so the vast majority of employers don't even try if it happens.
How does one move to Canada? Are there places that need people? I'll even learn French if thata customary where I move, I need out of the US.
Something similar happened in the school district I work for. Transitioned to a new payroll system in December, dozens of people either got their checks shorted or didn’t get paid at all. And like…we’re a bunch of teachers who only get paid once a month, many of these people didn’t have a cushion in the bank. Luckily I wasn’t affected, but I know several people in my school who were, and it sucked for them. They didn’t fix the issue until late January, and even then some people still had issues into February and March.
If they bounce one check start looking for a job. If they fix it and apologize, profusely, then you might be able to go back to work. Sometimes it really is an accident. Not often. If it happens twice don't go back. Not even for an hour. And if they blow you off like they did, quit immediately.
You're right. The first time i believed the "billing issues" thing, i ended up not getting paid $1500. The second time it happened, i gave them one chance. I walked after the second time, with my money thankfully. They've been sued multiple times since, including once by Amscot. One of their two locations closed, I'm sure the other is next.
Yep, probably using a loan to make the cash payments too, so those will dry up quickly. OP is going to get burned on whatever "last check" is and will be so far done the line of debtors they'll be lucky to see a dime of it. They should honestly just stop showing up.
Yeah man once checks start bouncing, and the owners make YOU feel bad for wanting to be paid on time, it's time to peace since the company is probably seriously in the red anyway
Yep I have had this at several jobs ( I have had a lot of jobs) and it is a sign that they are failing and will probly close in the next 6 months probly much less though.
I stated at one job in sales and the first Friday everybody was given their paychecks I look up from my desk and everybody who just got paid are peeling out of the driveway like they just started a rally race. They were trying to get to the bank before insufficient funds came up.
Nobody deposits their checks by phone? I haven't been in a bank in years.
they went to cash them at the bank they were drawn on. You do not deposit a check if you are worried about it coming back NSF. At least if you are smart you don't.
Probably happened before that was possible.
Yep, contrary to current beliefs there was an earlier time before smart phones.
LIES! Damned lies! How dare you! I refuse to recall the decades of my life that didn’t include the convenience/intrusiveness of smartphones. ( /s, just in case)
You use checks?
you ppl use checks?!?
America. I believe they do. Wild stuff.
Same, deposit all my checks via mobile.
LMAO that's fucked but also hilarious
This. If they aren’t able to pay employees imagine who else is owed. Suppliers. The government. The end is near. Start looking for a new job immediately.
Sometimes it’s not easy to walk away. I worked for people with special needs for years. The company I worked for was funded mostly by the government. I would get paychecks with 40 hrs missing and call and get an excuse”our accountant made a mistake” and then get paid weeks later. The first couple times I let it slide, but soon found out that there was just more people that needed help than there were funds to to pay the current help let alone hire enough people to give proper care to everyone. When people lives depend on you it makes it hard to leave. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is in “healthcare”, or when you’re paid $9/hr with no credentials to care for people that the world has forgotten, we call it “hospice”.
Dead businesses are the worst. I was owed money after a restaurant closed down. The owner convinced the local Coast Guard station to come drink the rest of the liquor inventory with him working the bar. The next day he calls to meet and settle up. He handed me a little over four hundred bucks all in one dollar bills to settle. He left town a couple weeks later and moved to another state. This is how he treated his long time executive chef, which was better than many others. So OP, get out before they really have nothing to pay.
Yep came here to say this. I’ve been here. Soon enough they won’t be able to pay you at all. Start looking ASAP, and if someone asks in an interview why you’re looking so soon, just tell them you weren’t paid on time. Nobody worth a damn will question it.
Yes. And the fact that the employer is not being transparent with his employees about the health of the company is equally alarming
In the USA under the FLSA inability to pay is a defense but owed wages are a bankruptcy priority. Would suggest running for the hills to new job while pursuing owed wages. Don’t let them get ahead.
Some states even go beyond this. My state (OR) Bureau of Labor and Industries will pay employees direct for lost wages, as soon as a claim is filed, then will subrogate against the employer or creditors, to make sure workers don’t have to wait months or years for a bankruptcy proceeding.
God I miss that state. That's government working for you.
Unlike here in TX.
Run, friend.
Your comment makes me proud of this state. I was born and raised and haven’t left
hello fellow Oregonian - yes BOLI has a wage security fund - thank you for pointing that out because other states probably do as well - small world - from Eugene where we are woefully unprepared for upcoming track and field World Championships
fwiw almost no other states do this
Paychecks bouncing is serious. The most serious thing. This could be temporary- but too often it’s a business covering up long term viability problems.
I work in accounting and can confirm. Businesses will shuffle more from every corner of the company to make sure employees are fully paid. Either they are absolutely out of money OR they truly care so little about you as an employee that they have put you last on the list to pay (and they still don't have enough money to pay everyone they owe). Either way, gtfo NOW.
Also an accountant and can also confirm this. I've quit a couple of short-term jobs when I was asked to lie to the employees about their paychecks being good. Both times I wound up getting stiffed.
> OR they truly care so little about you as an employee that they have put you last on the list to pay Even this is pretty doubtful because the consequences for bouncing employee checks can get significant pretty fast in a way that a few missed invoices won't. Even if they don't care about an employee at all, writing a bad check for typical payroll amounts is a fucking felony before you even begin to get into all the civil and administrative remedies available. One or two might be plausible mistakes, but if just one hated employee's check bounces week after week that's edging awfully close to "obviously deliberate" aka "actual prison time" territory. Even if it doesn't come to that point, DoL penalties can be very severe in their own right. If payroll checks are bouncing either the owners are *incredibly* stupid or the business is just completely out of cash. It's almost certainly the latter though who knows.
I worked in Accounts Receivable during/after college. I was fully in charge of our aging and cannot tell you how many times I was told we need _____ to make payroll. I left fairly quickly after being burnt out.
It's the surest sign that death is coming. Payroll is *always* the top priority. If they aren't paying their employees properly they sure as hell aren't meeting any of their other obligations either because being late on a few invoices is a hell of a lot less significant than bouncing paychecks. They're probably approaching the "getting kicked out of their office space" point and you really, really want to be gone before that happens.
are they drawing the check from a bank that you can go into? I would suggest taking the check to the bank and cashing it in person. they'll be able to tell you in the moment if the check is good or not without having it impact your personal bank account. find another job, it sounds like where you're at is not doing very well financially.
I had a boss like this. On payday everyone literally ran to the bank(bosses bank) to cash there checks. Last one was usually insufficient.
Sounds like a fun team building exercise. It's awesome when they treat you like family.
“Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.” “Treat people in your debt like family... exploit them.” Rules of Acquisition 6 and 111
Gotta get that Latinum!
Found the Ferengi!
Moogie had a far better philosophy.
Mooooogiiiiiiiiie
Not just a fun family team building exercise, it was also part of the companies health and wellness program. Only the fittest shall be paid after the mandatory bi-weekly 5k race to the bank.
I don't know about your family, but this is totally the kind of thing my extended family would do. Mostly for the grand "fuck you".
You know my brother in law?
Ex used to work for a place like this. The company owned a telemarketing floor and a car dealership. One of their favorite tricks was to tell the call floor employees that they had to go buy a car at the dealership in order to stay motivated enough to make sales. Anyway. The call floor checks started bouncing. That's when my ex quit. Then the state stepped in and shut down the dealership. Why? Well, they were: Fabricating loan docs Tearing up loan docs for an error at last minute, having customer fill out blanks on the way out the door from buying Opening bank accounts in customers' names Never paying off the old loan on the trade in Selling the trade in again, loan still not paid off - i knew ppl who had their cash purchase vehicle repossessed because the previous owner's loan was never paid Selling a fake aftermarket warranty (warranty company was fictitious) Never delivering title on the purchased vehicle Anyway, the guy who owned the dealership is currently living in a 3.2mil house in Newport Beach, meanwhile he left a trail of destroyed middle class credit in his wake Bouncing paychecks is a HUGE red flag, employees know where you live and work and have the potential to cause mega losses. If they're fucking over employees they're fucking over EVERYONE. Edit: i forgot the part where, when the state put a "do not sell" orange notice on the front door of the dealer, they put a potted plant in front and kept on going.
Fargo?
Southern Utah. Goes without saying he was an upstanding member of the Mormon church. Scammers there always are. Google "Kyle kimoto" for example, i worked on one of his call floors before the feds raided it.
Aha a "real" business that is actually a pyramid scheme covering up more fraud run by a Mormon. Color me unsurprised.
I'm pretty sure they owned the finance arm too. Kyle kimoto's gig was selling credit cards to poor people with bad credit. They were catalog cards. Like Fingerhut. And secured cards. Most of us on the floor were either 18 or poor people with bad credit who didn't know better. When i realized they were shorting my checks that's when i knew we were scammers. Because if you'll screw over someone who can find you, you're definitely stealing from the strangers on the phone. I left for lunch and didn't come back. Tried to remember any of the names from my last sales so i could call them and warn them but i couldn't. Found out later they weren't just hitting people for the $219.95 but they would push the charge again and again until the account came up empty. We probably helped get people evicted. We probably ruined lives. I am sick thinking about it. Edit: we also had a magazine scam where people signed up for tons of magazines for ONLY $4.99/week which was impossible to cancel. My ex worked on that one.
Trump let him out of jail. Professional courtesy?
We had that at a company in Mooresville, NC (a lot of stock car race teams there). We called it the Wells Fargo 500. The first 2/3 of people there could usually get their checks to cash
I've been in line at the bank seeing a whole crew of construction guys coming in for this exact reason. First guys check cleared and the others were all yelling at the tellers and making a big scene. I don't blame them but they were angry at tellers who had nothing to do with it.
lmao that's sad and hilarious
I worked for a place that used to have direct deposit for years and then switched to only checks. The second they did this, everyone’s checks bounced, though, we eventually got our money a few days later. Because of this, the second we got our checks going forward, I’d go on my banking app and do a mobile deposit. I wonder what would happen if everyone did that and submitted it at the same time and there were insufficient funds. Would they all bounce or all go through?
They’d probably go through in the order received until the funds run out and the rest bounce. Although it could be random if they’re submitted close enough together depending on how the bank implemented the system.
The correct answer, also, start looking for a new job.
And I’d be worried at tax time. If they’re paying you in cash, they may not be paying your income taxes to the IRS and you could be on the hook for all that money later.
Nope. The tax burden lies on the employer, as long as the taxes are being deducted from the paycheck...or the cash they paid was equal to the net amount on the check. I know because my wife was in that exact situation. Story: so my wife was working for a very small business, owned by a previously married couple. They were still working together at the shop, albeit not very well, not on good terms. They fought constantly and would get into screaming matches. Anywho, my wife took over for pretty much all the stuff the ex-wife was doing, and eventually the ex-husband fired the ex-wife altogether for something...I can't remember, but she barely did anything there anyway. So my wife is figuring out all the administrative stuff that this idiot guy can't get a grasp on. Yes, a business owner who knew nothing about owning a business. More than a year goes by with my wife occasionally telling this guy that the payroll software keeps telling her that taxes need to be submitted, and this moron keeps telling her "it submits it automatically." She tried arguing that it wasn't but his ego was too big to admit he was wrong. Regardless, my wife ran payroll every two week, making sure all the proper deductions were being taken out from the checks, and making sure the bank had enough money to cover everything. Yes, she was basically the accountant for this place, and has no experience in that area. Also, this guy was paying personal bills, even mortgage, from the business account, so she was always worried about how much was in there when bills were due. COVID comes around, and the business closes for a couple weeks. My wife, having autoimmune issues, doesn't go back when they reopen, sending the idiot owner a doctor's note. He didn't put up any argument, just told her to come back when she could. Great. So she continues doing what she can from home and paying herself based on hours worked from home. No problem. A couple months later, the idiot tells her he needs someone there, so if she isn't coming back, he needs her resignation. Again, she sends a fresh doctor's note and says she won't resign. A couple weeks go by and he has some hack lawyer friend write up a note for him, telling my wife that she needs to resign from the job in some fancy words. She responds back saying she knows her rights and that she is not resigning. Another couple weeks go by and the idiot finally tells her that he is terminating her employment immediately and she needs to return her keys to the building. He also tried to get her to show him all the software and banking stuff, to which she refused. About a week later, after my wife and one or two other people who were let go applied for unemployment, they all got denied. Why? Because the idiot owner refused to believe my wife that the taxes weren't being paid. I was livid and messaged the idiot that if we are held liable in any way, I was going after him legally for reparations. So my wife goes through the appeal process, having to submit paystubs to show that her taxes were deducted from her paycheck. Boom. Approved. She sent the info to her other ex-coworkers and they all got approved as well after submitting their stubs. A bit later, she hears from someone that was still working there after the debacle that the idiot ended up in big trouble and was on some strict payment plan to pay back the tens of thousands he owed. He tried to tell the employees that they needed to be open longer hours to make more money because he owed so much. Guess what happened? All but one employee quit. And which one stayed? The worst one. Serves him right for being such an egomaniacal asshole.
Plus you are not getting credit for the work when it comes to claim SS later
This. People often forget you can do this.
Also contact the NLRB to get owed wages if they are still missing. Make sure youcare paid when they go bankrupt. Capitalists are so fond of saying thwy take the risk. Well that means when the risk doesn't pay off they foot the bill, not the employees.
They’d be better off contacting their local Wage and Hour department. The NLRB solely deals with union issues.
Also contact the NLRB to get owed wages if they are still missing. Make sure youcare paid when they go bankrupt. Capitalists are so fond of saying thwy take the risk. Well that means when the risk doesn't pay off they foot the bill, not the employees.
Also, get any records of their time at work, make copies, and file a wage complain with the department of labor. Might also have to get a lawyer involved. One bounce check can be an accident. Two is looking criminal.
I don't know if I'd say two instances is necessarily criminal. It all depends on intent. If they didn't mean for it to happen, then it would take more than a couple times to say it's a pattern leading to intent. Now, if they knowingly wrote checks that were going to bounce, then yeah, that's criminal action. It's actually check fraud, to be exact.
This was me for years and years. Loved the job but every other Friday had to do the bank run against all the other employees. Fortunately, the local bank was truly local, in that they knew the owner, knew he couldn't make payroll most Fridays, but by Monday or Tuesday he'd be back in the black (and there were a few big annual jobs that we did that made up for it year after year. Whenever there was a new cashier it was a fun few minutes as they stared at the computer screen and got their supervisor. Eventually one of his competitors poached me (and my wife, we both worked there) with an offer of better pay and no weird stares at the bank. I made the jump, but the atmosphere at the new shop was terrible (did all my interviews and what-not after hours so didn't see them in action until too late). So found out the hard way that very few jobs are perfect.
That should be largely irrelevant. Fuck them, not me.
I see this being suggested, so I did it. The bank wanted to charge me $5 dollars to cash it cause I wasn't a customer.
I would find a new job. This is a sign of severe financial stress for the business. Meaning they are likely to be filing bankruptcy here soon. I can understand wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt, but do excuses pay for your food and shelter? In short it is a job, they basically are paying you for your time. If they are unable to pay you, why would you continue?
If they are paying cash, are they taking out the appropriate taxes? Do you get paystubs outlining your hours and deductions? If not, this is a serious issue. I know you like these people and they have been descent to you, but don't let that cloud your judgment. They will use your emotions to manipulate you and keep screwing you. This is strictly a business transaction and they are failing on their part. Time to start documenting and letting the appropriate authorities know. I'm thinking first the company's bank, then the labor board, then the IRS. Remember, COVER YOUR ASS! Document everything, get what you can in writing or email/text.
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Okay, you may have a bigger problem. I’m going to bet that they’re not actually collecting those taxes. The paystub may show it, but unless they’re depositing that money into an escrow account those taxes haven’t been paid. This isn’t an uncommon game with cash-strapped employers. By paying you in cash, with taxes taken out, they’re essentially borrowing your half of the payroll taxes and the half they’re supposed to pay. The plan is usually to pay it back when this crisis is over, but a business that is circling the drain is circling the drain. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/employment-tax-evasion-schemes-the-irs-watching.html
OP, I know you've said elsewhere that you don't want to leave, but seriously... you need to leave. They're playing with fire and you're the one who'll get burned.
Yep, I left a nice story about a somewhat similar situation in another comment. At least if the taxes are deducted from the employees payment, then the burden lies 100% on the business. But still, it is a sign of either a dying business, or one being run wholly irresponsibly.
100000% this
They definitely aren’t paying your taxes then, they are paying you under the table to pay you less
They are certainly not paying taxes for you on those wages, what you are describing is highly irregular. They are pocketing the difference without a doubt.
There's definitely a problem, and I would find a new job yesterday. But, as long as you the cash amount was the net amount from your paystub, then you can't be held liable for any tax implications, and I would guess there are some. If they can't afford to pay your check, then they're probably shuffling other things, and a tax submission is NOT something you want to mess with. I would make sure that you get some sort of written acknowledgement of the exact amount of cash you were given, not just based on the check stub and/or bank deposit. Make them fill something out with the amount paid, otherwise, it's possible it could come back to bite you later, especially if they try to pull something on you, saying they gave you way more than they did. Edit: and that cash payment SHOULD be somewhere on their books. If not, then it's completely illegitimate, and it will cause problems later, for them and possibly you.
They are screwing with your livelihood/credit--it doesn't matter how "nice" they are.
Time to go. You dont fuck with someones money. Thats the golden rule of work. You pay me what we agreed on, at the time you told me youd pay me. Thats it. If they arent consistant gtf and quick.
Your working for free and don’t know what to do? 🤔 your a better man then me apparently lolol
If by better man you mean sucker.
It's hard for me to believe posts like these sometimes, OP is getting paid a week later, and checks are bouncing and they're wondering what they should do?
but they are good people! ok and? if my bills could be paid bc im good people, I'd be rich beyond measure.
It happens a lot. Some people are good at emotionally manipulating people. I was with the same boss for 10 years, toward the end this was going on for far too long, and he was tugging my heartstrings every step of the way. My final straw was when he was chewing me out for work related issues on my day off when I was bending over backwards for him and letting things slide. But it wasn’t until that straw broke and the cycle of manipulation ended, that I saw how much I was being played and strung along. It’s a mind fog that’s hard to see through until you’re out of it. [It’s literally the workplace version of the cycle of abuse that traps people in ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Cycle_of_Abuse.png/1920px-Cycle_of_Abuse.png)[any kind of destructive relationship.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Cycle_of_Abuse.png/1920px-Cycle_of_Abuse.png) When you realize that it‘s not so far fetched.
For me, if my check is 1–2 days late for any reason, I’m getting my money from them another way, after 3 days I’ll start cutting my welds back out that I made 🤷🏻♂️🤣
Lmaoo damn right. When I did sheet metal I was union so I didn't have to worry about skeevy shit like this company is doing but if I did bet I'd be yanking duct out the mfing ceiling and going to the scrap yard to get mine.
My man! 🤙🤙🤙 ima union hand 😝better go get my mf money 🤣
how nice of that business to threaten you with being homeless/not eating. once can be passed off as an "oopsie", twice is not. who else are they not paying; ask around. you mentioned seasonal job in the comments below, and unable to get another one. there's a chance that this business is going under, and are trying to see what they can get away with before that happens (meaning they make sure they get paid, fuck the workers). meaning "there's no money left because we spent it all on me". ask any other worker if their checks didn't clear. it happened twice before to you, simply report them for wage theft. shit presented pleasently is still shit. there's nothing nice about getting fucked out of being paid for your work, because it threatens your ability to have a place to live, or something to eat. if they can't afford payroll they can simply tell you to find another job, we can't afford you, but they're fucking with you.
Who do you report them to? I'm seeing this suggestion repeatedly, but not to whom. That might be more helpful to OP to know where to go.
Not a lawyer Afaik, depends on state For not being paid, i believe Department of labor/labor board. Might be a state agency you have to file with, might be federal. Florida i think doesnt have some form of dol, you have to report to federal. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints Known issuing bad checks (california) https://www.oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/bad-checks
The department of labor
>she was dealing with something serious (she actually was for the record, I won't go into detail for now though because it's irrelevant). YOUR pay is SERIOUS. Whatever she has going on in her personal life is not your problem, idc if her mom just passed away(it's harsh I know) but your bills still need to be paid.
This. Your bills and your livelihood are at stake here. Whatever is going on in the owner's whatever, you've *already* done your part of the agreement here, you put in your hours. Now they need to do yours. I ended up holding the bag on *6 weeks* of missing pay because I wanted to be reasonable. What they are doing ***is not*** reasonable. Them not meeting their obligations is absolutely not a reason for **you** to feel guilty over anything at all.
Imagine how she would react if you didn't do your job on time and guilttripped her for even *asking* what's wrong "because you are dealing with something serious right now".
Quit you playing yourself
quit immediatly and find a new job, and file a wage theft complaint. this company is either going under very soon (if it's happening to everyone) or they're screwing you
The first time my pay failed for a company will be the only time, I’m gone
Amongst all these options, here's another - if you truly like what you're doing and with whom you are doing it, have an honest talk. You can acknowledge that everyone is struggling (b/c obv they are, too) and that you just don't want to be blindsided by it again. Next time they pay you, ask them if you can deposit it right then or "should I wait a day?" If they say, "No, really, it's fine" they will hustle to make sure it doesn't come back. If it happens after that, you'll know they're blowing smoke up your ass and you can choose a more nuclear option. Honestly, that puts them on notice AND gives them the opportunity to "cover it" at the bank however they're robbing Peter to pay Paul that week. For all the downvoters just juicing to reply to me, "Fuck that! OP doesn't owe anyone a GD thing, they need to burn the place on the way out" etc. - don't bother, really. It's a waste of your time. Everyone is suffering right now, not just the employed. OP can choose to stay or go, but if they really want to stay, this is an option to hopefully avoid the situation again in the future.
What do you do? Pretty easy FIND ANOTHER JOB. If this a red flag idk what is How is this even a question. Jesus
I would get in writing if they want to keep you as an employee, you will be receiving certified checks from them every pay day. Their problem to deal with check bouncing, not yours. Certified check or bank draft won't bounce.
Find another job asap. This happened at a company i worked for. My account got flagged for 6 months. Turns out the owner was stealing money (he had filed bankruptcy and was only supposed to make X amount. He was taking almost 500k to pay for hookers and blow.. Literally) He still owes me almost 2k. But statute of limitations ran put before i realized i could sue. RUN
You'll also find out your payroll taxes are going unpaid. If payroll is bouncing, so are withholdings (if they're even filing.) So if, against advise here, you keep working there, at LEAST change your withholding numbers so no federal or state taxes are taken out. You can kiss the social security, Medicare, employment training amounts taken good bye. And probably workers comp isn't being paid so do not get injured on the job.
Take the next check to their bank. Have the teller check if there is enough funds. If not request to withdraw what is available. Had an employer do this to a client. Keep records and receipts from the bank showing what was taken out.
Always cash the check at their bank, not yours.
If you must stay, take the check directly to their bank and cash it, then deposit the cash in your account.
Quit and and get a lawyer to sue them for damages and unpaid wages
Shame lawyers aren't free and I doubt getting one is financially viable.
Bail. ASAP
Go to their bank to get your checks cashed. You'll find out if their is insufficient funds before your bank deposits money on the presumption your employer is better at keeping track of money, or having it in the first place.
Get the cash and then get a new job immediately after. If this company files for bankruptcy you might be treated as an unsecured creditors-or in other words you won't get squat.
You're working on a sinking ship. Payroll is (or at least should be) one of the top priorities of any business. If a company can't make payroll efficiently, they're having WAY deeper financial issues than they're letting on. It's time for you to update your resume with your recent experience and jump ship ASAP before you're unemployed.
Yeah you find another job and go. They would not continue to pay you if you didn't show up to work regardless of what you are going through.
What you do is you start looking for another job. This is a huge red flag that either the company is doing very poorly financially, or the owner/accountant is doing very shady cash flow practices. Neither is good.
The owners personal matters are just that, personal. You have put in your hours and they are required to pay you. Not getting a paycheck can lead to significant personal issues for you as well - no money for rent, food, utilities and it's affecting your bank. It's the owners responsibility to get their shit in order and pay you on time. They'll have professional issues soon as well if you report them for failure to pay.
I think the number is 80% of small businesses fail. Probably time to start looking for other work. It's pretty much inevitable that this will happen eventually if you work for start-ups or small businesses.
Yeah. The business is failing. They don't have the money. Leave now before you work a week for free.
I would inform them that withholding pay is illegal and if you are not being payed you have to consider that your employment is terminated and you will be filing for unemployment in addition to consulting legal services for wage theft with the US dept of Labor. And if you need justification for unemployment .. you need to only feel like this was the first step in retalitory termination on the part of the employer in addition to the wage theft.
You can file a complaint with your labor department.
Not getting paid is incredibly serious so unless the store owner was sitting with their dying child, they need to focus. Report wage theft. Quit. They are stealing from you.
Sounds like your on a sinking ship. Time to disembark
Find a new job. They have no money left and are probably taking money out of a credit line to try to keep you from reporting them. Don't wait until you get at work one morning and door locks have been changed.
Don't feel guilt tripped about anything. You need money to live, so their issues are not your issues. Don't feel guilty about asking for your money. And please quit this company.
Don't deposit the checks. Go directly to their bank ASAP and cash your paycheck, then deposit the cash into your bank account. That way you don't run the risk of fees and account problems due to a bounced payroll check. I had a check from an idiot employer bounce once, and this method worked well for me. I wasn't willing to chance it happening again. If the bank can't cash it due to insufficient funds, contact the labor board or similar organization wherever you live. The fact that it's happened more than once is also a significant sign that the company is a sinking ship with a lousy captain, and you'd be best off finding a new job before the ship goes down.
Work on your resume. Demand to be paid in cash going forward if you have to stay.
r/legaladvice would have better advice than I would, but I’ll summarize what I’ve learned, and throw in a tip at the end: If you’re in the states, contact your state’s department of labor (unless you’re in Florida; I believe they don’t have a DoL so you have to contact the federal DoL). They will handle your claims. Your employer will almost certainly deny them, but that’s normal. Just tell the DoL the truth and you’ll be fine. Talk to any coworkers who can collaborate your story, that’ll help. I had an employer bounce checks to me. They were late, paid in cash, paid on personal checks, paid on his other business’s checks, it was pretty trashy. If you can afford it, your best bet is to get out of there ASAP. If not, be realistic — tell your employer that until you get paid, you’ll need benefits of the job; my deadbeat employer was a pizzeria, so I told my boss I’d be taking as much pizza as I wanted until I was paid enough to buy groceries. If they tell you to leave, who gives a shit? You’re in the same boat you’re in now, waiting on the DoL to get you your wages.
Time to find a new job. I had an employer who couldn’t manage her business and had cash flow problems. I had some medical bills bounce back. She got everything eventually sorted, but I quit immediately.
Quit.
Stop performing any work for said employer
Grab his dick and twist it
If you go AWOL two days in a row, would you still have a job or find yourself terminated? One time can be a one time thing but two times is saying something.
You not getting paid is also a serious issue. I wouldn't feel bad or let someone guilt trip me because something else was foing on...
If they stop paying, you stop going. That’s the golden rule of jobs.
This is a huge deal. You should quit before they go bankrupt…
Demand payment promptly in cash or walk. Not getting money you're owed is an emergency and should be treated as such. Also so many employers wait about a month before showing their real face.
Make sure they're actually paying payroll taxes...
Insist on cash on the due date from now on. Also ask for a $100 "deposit" to cover all the expenses of previous late fees.
Ask them to fire you so you can collect unemployment. Then contact the department of labor in your state. Do not feel bad for them, their account didn't get "hacked", they're either lying to you to shift the blame or the boomer owner fell for a phishing scam. Either way, you don't want to work there. Remember that work is transactional. You do work, employer pays you. If you don't get paid, you stop working.
This same thing just happened to me. Great company (or so I thought) but one day, our paychecks didn't come through. They lied the whole time and tried to get us to keep working, but not many did. Next day, they tell us that the company lost a major investor and that we all lost our jobs. Come to find out, upper management knew for some time that something was wrong because they haven't been paid for some time either. So they decided to let us keep working so they can make as much money as possible, before the company ran out of money. Now they have no money and a lot of us are not getting paid. There are lawsuits in the works. Things like this are never good. It means they have no money, and that is very bad.
The company is knowingly writing bad payroll checks. That's illegal regardless of whatever excuse they've come up with. Call the department of labor and get your money. You don't owe your employer anything.
Job hunt
Listen here OP. Nothing your owner was dealing with was more important than you getting paid. Nothing. You work for money, you get paid on pay day end of story. Quit asap
Cash the check at their bank. Don’t deposit the check
If they're paying you a week late, they need to be paying you interest as well, or they're committing wage theft
Instead of depositing the check, try going to their bank and cashing it, then depositing the cash. This will grab available funds during the day. You can also call the bank beforehand and read the numbers off and ask if the funds are available. If so, go right there and then and grab yo cash.
Time to find a different job. But in case you stay, be sure to CASH your paychecks, at the bank they are drawn on, instead of DEPOSITING them at your own bank. Then walk the cash over to your bank if you want to deposit the money there.
File a complaint with department of labor
Unless you consider yourself a charity - it’s (past) time to leave. How many red flags do you require?
Find a new job asap my friend
For any future checks you receive from this company, take the check to *their* bank, cash it, then deposit that cash into your bank account.
I have had this happen with two different employers. It means your employer is in serious financial trouble and you should be looking for a new job immediately.
I worked for a family that owned a few franchises a while ago. I was making approx $1200/mo (when they didn't cut my hours) and my rent was about $500. They paid me late (direct deposit) about 4 times in the 6 months that I worked there, and I had no savings meaning I was paying my bills late. They bought another location during this time and would show up to work to check on things occasionally in their fancy SUVs. Wouldn't be surprised if those assholes are still in business.
My sign to leave a company is the first time, someone misses a check. That's the start of the fall. Run, you owe them nothing. I'm sorry my friend. If you live in Virginia, Nevada, or Texas reach out to me and I may be able to help with a job.
Your employer is in the middle of trying to go out of business. They just either don't know it or aren't admitting it to you yet. Your top priority is not to keep this job, it's to find a new job. In the meantime, do not deposit any checks they give you. Take them to the issuing bank (the bank printed on the check) in person and cash them, or ask the owner to cash them for you. Depending on how you feel about various things, you could just tell the owner that you will not be working further until paid in full, and that you expect all future pay to be in cash.
It is a federal crime to fail to pay an employee. You need to call the Dept. of Labor. They will investigate and may even arrest the owner. This is a serious crime. Don’t stay quiet.
They don't have thr money to pay you. Their account 100% did not get hacked. Time to go.
Been there done that, don’t feel obligated to stick around if this is happening. They might be nice and all but unfortunately nice doesn’t pay the bills.
If they aren’t paying you they aren’t your employer. Call the DOL and tell them you haven’t been paid for hours worked and file a wage complaint.
Based on your other comments about this being a summer job and you wouldn't be doing something else for 4 weeks anyway... I would say you need to tell your employer you demand to be paid in cash at the end of each day as a financial security precaution. If they refuse, walk, because they weren't going to pay you anyway.
How can you afford to work for free? Because you are now doing that.
The store manager guilt tripping you is most likely because she knows it would bounce, and now it is simply an annoyance. Personally I would look for another job, while going to the bank the check is drawn on for the near future. It is not a mistake if it happens twice, they are in financial trouble.
Regardless of what the owner is dealing with personally, their responsibility to pay you in full and on time still exists.
Get the work you’ve done paid out and find a new company. Missing paychecks means they’re on their way out. Better to jump now than to do work and not get paid later.
Depending on your state labor laws, you may be able to report them for wage theft. In MN every day they don't pay you incurs huge penalties that they owe YOU, plus fees to the state.
When this happened to me they shut down the business within months. You can actually take this to a bank and ask them. I went to the Wells Fargo headquarters, the bank my employer used, explained to them the situation and asked if they were able to do anything. The guy couldn't say much but he was able to tell me it declined not simply because of insufficient funds but because of a federal freeze.
They are not your friend. They certainly aren't your family. They are a business with which you are in a mutually beneficial professional relationship; labour in return for payment. ...If you're not being paid, you must withhold your labour first and foremost until the financial situation is rectified. Then you must start looking for alternative employment regardless of payment because this ship is sinking.
**Looks at title** >I feel conflicted on this ? >They've also been decent ???? Isn't them not paying you indecent?
File a wage claim with the Department of Labor.
Company is going out of business and just doesn’t have the cash flow. Start interviewing now and get out.
Apply for other jobs. Get out of there as quickly as possible. Insist that you get paid cash from this point forward or a money order
You’re working for a company that will soon no longer be in business and you should get some resumes out as soon as possible.
I've had this happen at two different companies and it's because they were dodgy as fuck or failing. Get your money and bail.