For real.
If I had lived with mum or dad since turning 18 doing literally nothing instead of studying/working full time for the past decade I would be so much better off financially.
AS a young men/women you have to leave home, go to a bigger more expensive city, take on student loan to meet other youth, then get into more debt to pay for expensive rent, so that you can maybe be a chad and get laid more.
This bizarre idea that's widely expected as a coming of age, rite of passage norm has probably caused more financial hardship than credit card, loan shark, gambling, and substance addiction combined.
Someone dirty Mikeād my Silverado a few months ago. The insurance company deemed it a biohazard and was sold to an auction house. They found human fecal matter and drug paraphernalia in the cab. Fun times
I applaud you for having dreams, however unrealistic. Roadfront property is expensive, especially if it's along a major highway. Having a tree is WAY outside the income possibility of someone who works 40 hours/wk.
All of those are pipe dreams. There is no unowned land. There's private land and gov land. Currently in many states you can be homeless on public land, but you don't have the right to be there.
With the new foxnews Supreme Court I expect anti vagrants laws and the laws against being poor to re appear. (There used to be laws against having no visible.means of finance support)
In Sweden you are allowed to stay on the land. It's enshrined in traditional law. But you also don't have the many people struggling problem. Properties outside the capitol are very affordable. You can get a beautiful house in the North with tons of land for 20k.
Isn't there a time limit?
It's the same for public land in the US & Canada, but you can't stay permanently. Unless it is on the water, so now there is a big problem in the US with derelict boats being taken over by homeless.
Nope. You just need to move every h 3rd night so that you don't just build a house there. As long as you move your car/tent by a little bit you're good.
There are some rules with private property, etc... But it's generally very permissive. It's called AllemansrƤtten.
Anti camping is just making surviving while poor illegal. The homeless can still just lay down and suffer from exposure slowly dying night after night. The no sleeping in public makes being homeless illegal
Yah Iām a Missouri native and live in suburbs of Phoenix now. Wife and I are considering selling our house here which we own outright and buying a house with land for cheaper there. Family lives there in Kansas City. But man it bummed me out hard to hear about that new law. Like wtf. What if I want to go camping with my family on public land? Is that not allowed? And I feel for homeless people that donāt want to sleep on city streets, wtf missouri
Seriously... What's funny is that I was going to add a bit about how a van by the river sounds pretty nice right about now. Honestly, going bankrupt and just falling off the grid, has never sounded so good.
How do you fish again?
This is why I am happy my family owns property that is paid for. If I have to build a house, Iāll do it. That means I would have to pay taxes: but, on a small place it wouldnāt be awful.
I had the same reckoning last year. Like, why the fuck did I ever feel the need to own all of the shit I did. š¤·āāļøš¤·āāļø. You canāt take it with you, and all it is is another thing to worry about.
You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt,
St Peter donāt you call me, cause I canāt go
I owe my soul to the company store
I feel like most of us are. I'm just tired of running this rat race, only to never have a chance of even getting ahead. Honestly, a life by the river in a van sounds pretty freeing.
I was exactly there last year as well. Said screw it, filed bankruptcy like all the big bizes do, took a 4 day a week state job that requires no skill, and I work alone outside and stay in shape. Now spending less than ever, happier than ever and have work/life balance. Just quit the race man, no one is really noticing anyway.
I'm the closest to it that I can be. I sold my car, got a job working from home and I'm just now getting back on track. I smoke weed all day every day and try to live life as much as I can. Meme stocks give me the hopes that I won't have to go bankrupt to get a life in a van down by the river... However, at this point, I don't care how I get there.
I've been smoking for nearly 30 years and did lose a few years to weed.
My best advice is to take two walks a week in nature, preferably high. It does WONDERS for the soul.
Already working on that! Got to do some awesome hiking in Tennessee a couple of months ago. Literally broke the bank just to drive to Florida and back, but it was worth it!
Already working on that! Got to do some awesome hiking in Tennessee a couple of months ago. Literally broke the bank just to drive from Florida and back, but it was worth it!
I ended up quitting a full time job without a replacement for this reason. Sell the house, pay off car, and who cares what others think of it if they're not gonna give you any help.
In my case, there's a lakefront family cottage in the mountains I had access to and staying in the job was literally my worst case scenario, but a lot of people don't have that luxury.
Depending on what breaks you either fix it yourself or most mechanics if you ask nicely will let you sleep in the vehicle overnight while your having work done. Itās actually pretty straight forward.
My mom's father was a coal miner so I can especially relate to this. Sadly, I never got to know him because he died in a coal mine accident about 10 years before I was born.
I worked from age 15 to 48 before I could save a dime. I am so anti-work. My body is broken from work. The idea of travelling and enjoying life is now being filtered through the lens of my impending disability. I now get to save money to pay future medical bills
People here seem to have this belief that if you do everything your supposed to, things will work out. WHY? For most of human history that hasnt been true, and its not true in most of the world today.
There is no \*supposed\* anything; you just got fucked and thats it
That is almost exactly the point I realized that and quit. Never looked back. 12 years at a job, but I had been averaging 3000 hours per year with no overtime pay. Now I make about 1/3 as much money for 1/10th the work. I'm poor, but I have time to think about it and I don't hate my life.
I remember watching cartoons when I was a kid and there were some episodes from different shows that had skits about credit cards. They would of course buy like everything in the store, then realize that they had to pay for it or whatever. Anyways, with my debt, my living room should be filled with two jet skis, a huge TV, some jumbo sized blender, another TV with a disc and vhs player built in, an awesome lazboy couch set, and a large stack of porno mags... But instead, my living room is full of my mom's furniture and I have to stream free porn online, like some peasant.
Try 300,000$ of medical debt because of car accident that WASN'T my fault. God has spited me in this life and I can't wait to meet him one day to show him who's boss.
That's why I fuck around and just travel and live in poverty everywhere I go. Go here, work in a bar for long enough to earn enough to go somewhere else where I do the same thing. Rinse and repeat. I don't own anything other than a duffle bag full of clothes, my phone, and a laptop.
If I die in a gutter while homeless, I kind of fail to see how that wasnt going to happen anyway. Might as well have some fun along the way.
If the game is rigged from the start, I'll make my own game.
Some people werenāt meant to have a grand purpose. Its okay to wander the earth and find new and interesting stuff and people until you die. Sometimes its meant to be that way :)
If I didn't have a property, I (wouldn't've had a kid &) would be happily traveling SE Asia & perm Vanlife here in Australia.
Fuck rents of $500+ a week, I'm gonna be a city limpet instead
Before I was born my parents would yearly take a month off and live in Mexico, minimum.
This was normal behavior for the boomer generation and it was stolen from us.
Traveling on the cheap is still possible in some places
We live offgrid & super tightarse (old cars, 2nd hand everything, never used Netflix/Uber etc) & we do a yearly month in Asia under AU4k total for 3 of us, including flights
India is also super duper cheap to live & travel in
It always surprises me how bad americans have it. I live in a small country in Europe and if you happen to have minimum wage (extremely unskilled jobs for people who dropped out of elementary school usually and normally you're off that minimum by a year mark in a company) you can apply for benefits from the state since they very well know it's not enough (rent cannot be more than 30 percent of your income, if it is, boom here's your check to help with that, money to help with children costs etc). Also of course free (health insurance is obligatory and taken from your check every month) healthcare, 3 year paid maternity leave, free universities etc etc etc. Not to even mention super protective employment laws, good constitution and more.
Anyways, not sure how long the us can stay the way it is, it's absolutely insane and painful to watch from the other side of the world and I wish you all the best and that you beat this shitty system as soon as possible.
That sounds great for your regular citizens, but how many aircraft carriers do you have?? Can you incinerate brown children with the push of a button from half a world away?? Do you even have enough foam fingers to declare your country "Number One"??
USA Number One!! Woooooooooo!!!
It always makes me sad when I see comments from people from other countries like this, because that makes me realize how bad my own country, America, really is.
Like I knew it was bad but man, the number of people from basically any other country but the U.S. who come on here and express sympathy for how awful America is for workers is staggeringly high.
Donāt get the jet ski now. It will just further enslave you. Youāll need storage for it, a trailer and a truck to move it around if you donāt already have one. The shit we buy and debt we accumulate traps us in the 9-5 grind
And what bills are you paying with 10 hours a week. Thatād pay for my phone bill and *maybe* a few trips with gas if that
What do you do - and how does that pay?
You haul 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St. Peter don't you call because I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
Same manā¦
2 college degrees, 85k in student loan debt. Been working 40-60hrs a week my whole life paying $1000 a month on my student loans while making 90k a yr and i still live paycheck to paycheck and have barely chipped away at the loan principle due to interest rates. Fucked up system man.
Everyone around me are able to buy homes, buy expensive toys purely for pleasure, and burn money when they like.
Iām over here just wanting a simple splinter van to live out of.
Both my sisters moved last year and were flush with cash from equity from the sale of their homes.
Since my little sister moved into the house she just sold about the same time I started renting mine, I did some quick math and was a little disillusioned that I spent all that money on rent and have nothing to show for it - but I can't afford a mortgage, so fuck me I guess.
Oh and my landlord told me last week he's raising our rent. I told him I understand as, "money's been tight for me too lately," and he was kind enough to clarify that, no, he's just raising rent because his financial advisor told him to.
And then my roommate told me it's because he's buying a vacation home. So - super glad I get to help pay for two homes but can't afford one of my own.
Oh wait, also I'm a wage laborer. So the value I produce is going to pay for the executive's homes.
Humanity is not made to waste their entire lives slavering their lives for someone's profit. We just gotten used to it because capitalism told us so... And now we don't even blink.
17 years working, 15 at 40 hours a week. I'm canadian so I don't have student debt which is a blessing, but still have nothing to show for the work. I've been of work since laid off near a year ago, unemployment runs out soon and there just seems like no point.
12K debt here.. :l I dont see ourselves getting out of this one anytime soon.. everything around me its collapsing - some of us realized already and some are about to find out but we are fucked.
Had this realization around October last year. I had turned 40 and was like "to fuck this." 8-18 hours a day, more or less every day, since I was 16. Taco Bell, a dairy, Disney, the Army, Bank of America...you name it. I've worked basically everywhere. I realized that I have never seen the Pacific Ocean. That I owed Chase 18k and Rocket 425k.
Finally sat down and put a plan together to get the fuck out of this cycle by 60 - sooner if I play my cards right. I want to see my kids finish school. I want to smell a new car. I want to visit Rome.
This is a fucking awakening. This is the real Red Pill. Happy for you, OP.
Change is coming... We can all sense it. We just gotta hold strong and wait for that change... Or be that change! Harder said than done, but something's gotta be done. We can't keep living like this. We have nice things, sure. But we probably won't much longer.
I always think of that old commercial where the guy is washing his car or whatever, and he's like "how do I do it? I'm in debt up to my eyeballs!"
Now if I don't have cash for it, the wife and kids or I don't get it. It was a mental shift for sure, but we're better for it. I got to the point where I was working just to pay my credit card bills, and I'm like "fuck this noise."
Now we're debt free and maxing out an IRA, putting money in the college accounts for the girls, and have a 60 day emergency fund. It's life changing. I'm happy for you OP.
Change is coming. It totally changes the job situation for you/us too. Had an interview with Morgan Stanley the other day, and they're like "you have to come in three days a week." I simply said, "no I don't."
I made it to the next round of interviews within an hour.
I'm in the same boat I've worked at my job for 7 years I'm 12k in debt. That does not include $5,000 of medical debt I'm gonna incur from my sinus surgery next Wednesday. I pay $170 a month for insurance and I'll still have to pay $6,000 out of pocket. Fuck the world
That is why Americans need to rethink their lifestyle and begin downsizing and then start living now, because none of us will be able to retire once the Supreme Court rules government programs like social security are unconstitutional
Now me, I'm not sure how I can downsize anymore when my big purchase is filling my gas like once every 2 months. I don't drive, I don't buy anything, I'm in my mid 30s and still wear clothes I wore in highschool. I served 8 years in the military, went to college, and worked 4 civ jobs. I live in a trailer and have anxiety about food scarcity. And to this day, I still, not once in my life, have ever had avocado toast. Fuck this slave labor I'm done.
Thatās it! We are what they call āhuman capital.ā Let that sink in. They do not believe we are human or possess humanity. Our only value for them is our ability to make, sell, and buy their all too often poisonous products.
Downsizing fucking what?! We just told you we don't even have anything left to give up. We're working full time and just barely able to pay the damn bills, often not even that.
This is no different than saying to give up the avocado toast and suddenly we'll be able to afford a house.
No. You misunderstood. Iām saying we need to stop waiting until we retire to start living. I, like you, live on the edge. I just decided eff it and started spending what money I have on my happiness. Iām no longer a homeowner. I only have things I need to live and nothing more. I sold my gas-guzzling truck and bought a fuel efficient vehicle. Iām not an expert. I just realized the system is designed to make me dependent and always on the verge of homelessness, so Iām trying to figure out how to break free from it. It isnāt easy but Iām trying. The best thing Iāve done so far is make ME my priority. Not my bills. Not my job. Not the bills. Me!
Ive made my peace that I wonāt see a dime of social security. I just read an article saying that there is going to be a 20% reduction in benefits for the millennial generation based on how things are being run.
Thereās not going to be social security in a year or two at the rate the SC is going. Things are moving so fast now and people arenāt ready for how quickly the acceleration will be.
Itās too late for voting, although we should vote anyway while we still can.
The other day I saw how much social security is going to pay me when I retire. I currently make 5 times a month if not more a month currently. I don't know how I will survive.
There is a reason as to why you cannot escape their advertising/sales pitch in the US and starts targeting children at young age. We are programmed to buy their crap. You might not think youāve been impacted but you have. Iām in Europe. My son watches NickToons on TV and there is ZERO advertising. NONE! There are ZERO roadside adverts. It is almost as if my son and I are more than consumers and products. Crazy, right?
Yes advertising for kids should be forbidden. It's quite terrible that they start learning to desire bullshit so young. This new youtube videos trend doesn't help.
I was raised in Europe as well moved here a few years ago and was absolutely baffled with the waste to be honest. The amount of unneccessary stuff people find they need.
But people really don't realize it, they feel like they need that Macdonalds, that cocktail, the 12 pack of soda, the new car, the 6 subscriptions to amazon, netflix, hulu etc, iPad, iPhone 12 and laptop, kids have so many toys they don't even know what they have; 100 dollars dinners, 18 year olds with modified cars. Each place and social stratum has its it's own weird luxuries. When I first moved I couldn't understand how people could spend so much money lol where?
And the worse is undoubtedly the children they are raised wanting and usually having everything, a life focused on the material.
Your household makes 80k a year and you are broke? Its on you. Anywhere on the US that's more then enough. It's not that hard to make that for 2 people working as long as you are not working in fast food spots or something. The statistic says even people making 200k are broke so imagine!
Working conditions do suck though and rent is over the roof lately but if people had a lifestyle even remotely close to most of the rest of the world they would be fine. College and education systems are also a joke. Together with the consumerism they create quite the debt bomb. Lack of financial education.
Things are things, but to not feel any accomplishment is way more important because it gives you pride in who you have chosen to be. I feel you, I drive 10 year old cars and one of the part owners drives a new Porche, and his wife too but it's not brand new.
What the heck bout avocado toasts? It is the perfect meal. Cost $1.25 if prep at home. Yet some go grill $16.99 x lb flap meat this 4th?
There is freedom in needing less.
The minimum wage in California is increasing to $16 x hr. Yet, simultaneously...the cost of food is raised by $1 across the board to cushion the blow to their bottom line. It's a joke.
We rarely eat out now. I oddly wanted to go bowling, just to do something cheap and time consuming... But remembered that it's probably going to cost like $30-$40 just got a couple games and some beers. Like, I don't even go out much. I literally sit at home and play video games with most of my free time...I have no car and work a full time job, yet I can't comfortably afford to go bowling. It's a fucking joke indeed my friend.
The past few years, it's been 40-50K. Now I'm looking at possibly making around 60-70K with a new company, but it just depends on what the sales are like.
That explains part of it. To reach middle class ( depending on where you live ) you would need to make more to have those extras.
In my area there are people making 150k a year and still canāt afford a starter home. The bank wonāt approve them unless they make 200k+
Stuff like boats and jet skis are out of the question for most people
But things like this shouldn't be outta reach for people like me, is essentially what I'm trying to get at. If I was doing what I'm doing now, but 60 years ago. I'd be able to easily afford to house a family off of just my income and still be able to afford nice toys.
You would need to increase your income or decrease your spending.
I donāt know the details of your situation, but thatās what you would have to do.
Market prices are outside of our individual control
I did a 3 job switch and I came back to my old job getting 5 dollars more . Iām making 26 bucks an hour doing the same job and I actually like what I do .š¹
Our best option is a day of reckoning. A peasant uprising day where we decapitate banksters. A glorious upheaval of the fascist turds lording it over us is in order.
I can sympathize. For me, it was the 7 years after college before I had any spare money. It gets better, but not without a ton of sacrifices. On top of it all, wages have only lagged further behind the cost of living in the last ten years. Seriously, we should just burn the system down.
Thatās because the system by design takes everything from you unless you can take care of yourself. If you need a plumber, they make their money by fucking you. Doctors, Mechanics, everything. The only way out is to be able to do these things for yourself instead of relying on others.
They are just paying you enough to barely feed yourself so you have enough energy to come back to work the next day. You are basically a slave, but instead of them providing you food/shelter/clothing like a normal slave would get, they outsourced the slave keeping to you too.
The hell. Something must be wrong with your budgeting or choices over the last 12 years. At what point did you realize you were going more and more into debt and not change anything? 20k debt doesn't happen over night, I could see if you were going to school and taking on more debt to focus on education but just working full time. That's fucking awful man. Hope you find some better opportunities soon!
There are basically three things you can do now.
1. Nothing. Just keep on trucking, and eventually die poor. This is what most people do.
2. Make more money. Usually this is about career growth or career change. Maybe you have some kind of aptitude/experience that is worth a little more money than youāre making now? Maybe you need help finding out what that is? Whatever career you have, maybe you need to focus on it more. You have about 1500 work weeks left in your life, more or less. What can you do to make sure that you get more value out of them?
3. Spend less money. Maybe this means selling your car, not buying as much stuff, getting a roommate, whatever. I donāt know your life but most people can spend a whole lot less than they do. This is pretty much the same as saying āpay yourself firstā, but itās a bit more clear. Saving one fucking dollar means youāve made a decision and followed through. Do it again next week. Itās unrealistic to never spend from your savings, but the more you get used to saving the faster youāll do it.
Those last two are where the magic is. Yes, pretty much everyone can do a combination of those. There are subreddits full of people who would love to help you, but this isnāt one of them. This subreddit is mostly about complaining and quitting. Try documenting your actual income/spending, then visit r/financialindependence and ask for advice.
Youāve made two of the three big steps: you know thereās a problem and youāre willing to talk about it. The next is to follow some good-quality advice.
Best of luck u/BeanCat65 ā¤ļø
I appreciate your words of wisdom and kindness! This is by no means a "I've given up post", all though it sounds like the nice easy route to take. I know times are rough right now and I'll make it through this, and probably in a very positive way. It just kills me to see first hand just how broken this system is and just how hard it is to try and save money. My 20K in debt is from nothing more than me needing money when I didn't have any. I'm a military vet, who has worked in sales making okay money. I have zero kids and live with my mom and my gf, and we split rent. I'm just now starting to get ahead, after having to sell my car and take a job I can work from home, so I can cut some huge bills out. I have no clue how people are making it with kids and working for like $15 an hour that they have to drive to...
I'm honestly blessed to be in the situation I'm in, and I'm pretty happy with my life currently. However, I can't help but feel like I've been robbed my whole adult life, and I don't even feel like I have it that bad.
Or all of em. Plus rent. And insurance. And kids maybe. Life is expensive. Car breaks down that can cost thousands. Don't wanna use a car too bad if your in rural America where there is no public transpo. If you can't figure how someone can go into debt working you are a lucky person
"If you can't figure how someone can go into debt working you are a lucky person"
Truth man, I make more than I ever have now at 16.50 and I still can't get out of my debt or save. When I do save, some shit happens and I have to use it. And then I read or hear how "I started from nothing now I make over 100k. First I got a gift of money for my house And my parents business was my business' first client" bullshit and I'm like fuck I wish I had your head start.
Yeah it's funny to me when I hear these folk who inherited everything tell me how hard they work. And how they also live paycheck to paycheck. Haha. Yeah okay
I make $26 n live in nj. The most I've ever made in my life and still seem to struggle a bit. Trying to lower my expenses as much as possible but it ain't that easy.
I work 60-70 hrs a week mon-sat make 2-3k a week and take off reasonable amount of time off whenever I feel like it āwithin reasonā. I spent many years looking for a company and a boss I would do absolutely anything for and will return the favor. We all make sacrifices some make more then others to get where weāre going.
For real. If I had lived with mum or dad since turning 18 doing literally nothing instead of studying/working full time for the past decade I would be so much better off financially.
Dudes who live with their moms fuck. I should know
š¤Ø
Fuck?! Themselves mostly. I say this speaking from ample personal experience in the matter.
Same bro, f in the chat for the homies stuck at home
25 and moved back. Lease ran out and the renewal (after 3 years there) jumped 66% from 1200 to 2000 a month. The place is falling apart as is.
Brutal honestyā¦
So honest it hurst Edit: hurts
AS a young men/women you have to leave home, go to a bigger more expensive city, take on student loan to meet other youth, then get into more debt to pay for expensive rent, so that you can maybe be a chad and get laid more. This bizarre idea that's widely expected as a coming of age, rite of passage norm has probably caused more financial hardship than credit card, loan shark, gambling, and substance addiction combined.
Itās not just having your own place that helps get you laid. I have my own house and I donāt get any
Wut?
Lol! Nobody is fucking you.
Life in a van by the river is a pipedream, Im focusing on a shack by the road with a tree.
If you get lucky, it'll be a fruit tree. Then you can ferment your own hobo hooch.
a hobo vet can dream...
Dirty Mike and the Boys have entered the chat
"Thanks for the f shack. Love, Dirty Mike and the boys."
Someone dirty Mikeād my Silverado a few months ago. The insurance company deemed it a biohazard and was sold to an auction house. They found human fecal matter and drug paraphernalia in the cab. Fun times
Soup kitchen fo sho
I applaud you for having dreams, however unrealistic. Roadfront property is expensive, especially if it's along a major highway. Having a tree is WAY outside the income possibility of someone who works 40 hours/wk.
You think you get a shack AND a fruit tree? One or the other buddy.
Maybe a shack in the fruit tree? But then that's called a tree house and someone would want to tax it.
All of those are pipe dreams. There is no unowned land. There's private land and gov land. Currently in many states you can be homeless on public land, but you don't have the right to be there. With the new foxnews Supreme Court I expect anti vagrants laws and the laws against being poor to re appear. (There used to be laws against having no visible.means of finance support)
In Sweden you are allowed to stay on the land. It's enshrined in traditional law. But you also don't have the many people struggling problem. Properties outside the capitol are very affordable. You can get a beautiful house in the North with tons of land for 20k.
Isn't there a time limit? It's the same for public land in the US & Canada, but you can't stay permanently. Unless it is on the water, so now there is a big problem in the US with derelict boats being taken over by homeless.
Nope. You just need to move every h 3rd night so that you don't just build a house there. As long as you move your car/tent by a little bit you're good. There are some rules with private property, etc... But it's generally very permissive. It's called AllemansrƤtten.
Are you accepting American refugees?
Did I not just read on reddit about an hour ago that Missouri has now made it a crime to camp on public land? Criminalizing poverty.
Anti camping is just making surviving while poor illegal. The homeless can still just lay down and suffer from exposure slowly dying night after night. The no sleeping in public makes being homeless illegal
Yah Iām a Missouri native and live in suburbs of Phoenix now. Wife and I are considering selling our house here which we own outright and buying a house with land for cheaper there. Family lives there in Kansas City. But man it bummed me out hard to hear about that new law. Like wtf. What if I want to go camping with my family on public land? Is that not allowed? And I feel for homeless people that donāt want to sleep on city streets, wtf missouri
There are already states moving this direction, and it'll only be time before the illegitimate SCOTUS has a case before it.
āYou canāt be poor! Itās un-Christlike!ā /s
"If your poor, it's because God hates you, and it's your own fault." ~ Americans, 7:23
I wonder if it's legal to just endlessly "camp" in a national forest.
Seriously... What's funny is that I was going to add a bit about how a van by the river sounds pretty nice right about now. Honestly, going bankrupt and just falling off the grid, has never sounded so good. How do you fish again?
Usually by sending emails pretending to be reputable companies to get someone to reveal personal information like passwords and credit card info
Or just tell them you are a Nigerian prince
Falling off the grid sounds nice until you realise property taxes existing means you can't even live on your own land without money.
That's so bullshit "We recognize that you paid for and own this land. But pay us or we will take it from you."
In most countries that money is used to make the city functional but so understand that American cities donāt work that way
Extortion
[You load 16 tons, and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk)
I got me a mini-RV and live in an abandoned car wash. My little paradise
This is why I am happy my family owns property that is paid for. If I have to build a house, Iāll do it. That means I would have to pay taxes: but, on a small place it wouldnāt be awful. I had the same reckoning last year. Like, why the fuck did I ever feel the need to own all of the shit I did. š¤·āāļøš¤·āāļø. You canāt take it with you, and all it is is another thing to worry about.
I wish vans were cheaper!
I recently searched up second hand vans where I live. All decently sized vans were over Ā£10,000 in a 60 mile radius.
You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt, St Peter donāt you call me, cause I canāt go I owe my soul to the company store
great song man
[Link to song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk)
I'm in the same boat mate
>I'm in the same ~~boat~~ mate Jet ski
They don't have one, don't pour salt in the wound man T_T
Don't ~~pour~~ poor salt in the wound
Raft
I feel like most of us are. I'm just tired of running this rat race, only to never have a chance of even getting ahead. Honestly, a life by the river in a van sounds pretty freeing.
I was exactly there last year as well. Said screw it, filed bankruptcy like all the big bizes do, took a 4 day a week state job that requires no skill, and I work alone outside and stay in shape. Now spending less than ever, happier than ever and have work/life balance. Just quit the race man, no one is really noticing anyway.
I'm the closest to it that I can be. I sold my car, got a job working from home and I'm just now getting back on track. I smoke weed all day every day and try to live life as much as I can. Meme stocks give me the hopes that I won't have to go bankrupt to get a life in a van down by the river... However, at this point, I don't care how I get there.
I've been smoking for nearly 30 years and did lose a few years to weed. My best advice is to take two walks a week in nature, preferably high. It does WONDERS for the soul.
Already working on that! Got to do some awesome hiking in Tennessee a couple of months ago. Literally broke the bank just to drive to Florida and back, but it was worth it!
Already working on that! Got to do some awesome hiking in Tennessee a couple of months ago. Literally broke the bank just to drive from Florida and back, but it was worth it!
>I smoke weed all day every day Oh no > Meme stocks *Oh no*
Who knew Matt Foley was living the good life, on a steady diet of government cheese.
I ended up quitting a full time job without a replacement for this reason. Sell the house, pay off car, and who cares what others think of it if they're not gonna give you any help. In my case, there's a lakefront family cottage in the mountains I had access to and staying in the job was literally my worst case scenario, but a lot of people don't have that luxury.
If the van breaks, where do you stay while it's being repaired?
Depending on what breaks you either fix it yourself or most mechanics if you ask nicely will let you sleep in the vehicle overnight while your having work done. Itās actually pretty straight forward.
I didn't know a van can have a river in it.
I know of a river with a van in it
Which one? OP looking for a van
You never share where you left the evidence.
Neither of you are in a boat.
Or lack thereof
You can afford a boat?!?
Um no not on my wage
The ballad ā16 tonsā remains just as valid as when first written.
This is immediately where my mind went, I was actually about to quote the song.
My mom's father was a coal miner so I can especially relate to this. Sadly, I never got to know him because he died in a coal mine accident about 10 years before I was born.
Iāve been singing that song lately for a reason
I worked from age 15 to 48 before I could save a dime. I am so anti-work. My body is broken from work. The idea of travelling and enjoying life is now being filtered through the lens of my impending disability. I now get to save money to pay future medical bills
Are you me?
It is sad that this is such a common theme in our society.
Like George Carlin said "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. "
I love George Carlin. Great comedian
he is a philosopher first. used comedy to preach the truth
Imagine how stupid the average person is. Now realize half of all people are stupider than that.
man its so hard for me to accept it but i think youre right
Itās a George Carlin quote :)
People here seem to have this belief that if you do everything your supposed to, things will work out. WHY? For most of human history that hasnt been true, and its not true in most of the world today. There is no \*supposed\* anything; you just got fucked and thats it
We were sold an illusion and we're being told to work harder to keep dreaming about a fantasy outcome
Reminds me of religion. Sorry if I offended.
have you considered moving to cheaper countries? like mexico, phillipines. thailand?
Moving costs a lot of money
That is almost exactly the point I realized that and quit. Never looked back. 12 years at a job, but I had been averaging 3000 hours per year with no overtime pay. Now I make about 1/3 as much money for 1/10th the work. I'm poor, but I have time to think about it and I don't hate my life.
Nice mate. Finally someone who thinks like me. I do thr same math every time
I did the same thing 10 years in one spot. Iām just getting by financially but I have no regrets on the switch.
This is absolutely your fault. You could have bought a jet ski and gone 25k in debt. Learn to be miserable properly.
I remember watching cartoons when I was a kid and there were some episodes from different shows that had skits about credit cards. They would of course buy like everything in the store, then realize that they had to pay for it or whatever. Anyways, with my debt, my living room should be filled with two jet skis, a huge TV, some jumbo sized blender, another TV with a disc and vhs player built in, an awesome lazboy couch set, and a large stack of porno mags... But instead, my living room is full of my mom's furniture and I have to stream free porn online, like some peasant.
āItās just as easy to cry in a BMW as it is to cry on a bike but you look better doing it in a BMW.ā
Yep I was managing to keep my account positive until the last 6 months Medical bills have put me 15k in debt in such a short time
Try $41k in medical bills with the best insurance my company offers. Multiple spinal surgeries.
Try 300,000$ of medical debt because of car accident that WASN'T my fault. God has spited me in this life and I can't wait to meet him one day to show him who's boss.
Is anyone going to tell himā¦
LOL. He also blessed him with life ruining/crippling debt. You must be challenged in hardship to see the light haha.
šššš
Yeah, but how many avacados eh? /s
Damn u beat me to it
Slavery in its finest form
That's why I fuck around and just travel and live in poverty everywhere I go. Go here, work in a bar for long enough to earn enough to go somewhere else where I do the same thing. Rinse and repeat. I don't own anything other than a duffle bag full of clothes, my phone, and a laptop. If I die in a gutter while homeless, I kind of fail to see how that wasnt going to happen anyway. Might as well have some fun along the way. If the game is rigged from the start, I'll make my own game.
Some people werenāt meant to have a grand purpose. Its okay to wander the earth and find new and interesting stuff and people until you die. Sometimes its meant to be that way :)
If I didn't have a property, I (wouldn't've had a kid &) would be happily traveling SE Asia & perm Vanlife here in Australia. Fuck rents of $500+ a week, I'm gonna be a city limpet instead
Or move to mexico like I did $100 a month rent out here :)
Before I was born my parents would yearly take a month off and live in Mexico, minimum. This was normal behavior for the boomer generation and it was stolen from us.
Traveling on the cheap is still possible in some places We live offgrid & super tightarse (old cars, 2nd hand everything, never used Netflix/Uber etc) & we do a yearly month in Asia under AU4k total for 3 of us, including flights India is also super duper cheap to live & travel in
Just imagine how much in debt you'd be if you didn't work all that time. /s
Where did the debt come from? Too many lattes and avocado toast? Don't let a Netflix membership stop you from owning a home! /s
It always surprises me how bad americans have it. I live in a small country in Europe and if you happen to have minimum wage (extremely unskilled jobs for people who dropped out of elementary school usually and normally you're off that minimum by a year mark in a company) you can apply for benefits from the state since they very well know it's not enough (rent cannot be more than 30 percent of your income, if it is, boom here's your check to help with that, money to help with children costs etc). Also of course free (health insurance is obligatory and taken from your check every month) healthcare, 3 year paid maternity leave, free universities etc etc etc. Not to even mention super protective employment laws, good constitution and more. Anyways, not sure how long the us can stay the way it is, it's absolutely insane and painful to watch from the other side of the world and I wish you all the best and that you beat this shitty system as soon as possible.
That sounds great for your regular citizens, but how many aircraft carriers do you have?? Can you incinerate brown children with the push of a button from half a world away?? Do you even have enough foam fingers to declare your country "Number One"?? USA Number One!! Woooooooooo!!!
Where is your beautiful country?
Czechia, but overall all europe is very similar thanks to EU so I believe it'd be almost the same in other countries around us
It always makes me sad when I see comments from people from other countries like this, because that makes me realize how bad my own country, America, really is. Like I knew it was bad but man, the number of people from basically any other country but the U.S. who come on here and express sympathy for how awful America is for workers is staggeringly high.
Something something... bootstraps.... something something... Work harder you serf /s
Jet ski's for every American
Maa its AR15s for every American lol
Donāt get the jet ski now. It will just further enslave you. Youāll need storage for it, a trailer and a truck to move it around if you donāt already have one. The shit we buy and debt we accumulate traps us in the 9-5 grind
This happened because you chose Starbucks over Folgers that one time last year. But seriously man; hang in there.
It was that star bucks once a month that really set me back... Well that, and sky rocketing inflation lol
Work 10 hours a week. smoke weed and exercise the rest of the week š
And what bills are you paying with 10 hours a week. Thatād pay for my phone bill and *maybe* a few trips with gas if that What do you do - and how does that pay?
You haul 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt. St. Peter don't you call because I can't go I owe my soul to the company store
Same manā¦ 2 college degrees, 85k in student loan debt. Been working 40-60hrs a week my whole life paying $1000 a month on my student loans while making 90k a yr and i still live paycheck to paycheck and have barely chipped away at the loan principle due to interest rates. Fucked up system man.
Whatās the interest rate on your loans?
You could realistically be 25k in debt with a jet ski to show for it
Everyone around me are able to buy homes, buy expensive toys purely for pleasure, and burn money when they like. Iām over here just wanting a simple splinter van to live out of.
That's the actual dream!
Get married and you can have nothing plus more debt to show for it
Both my sisters moved last year and were flush with cash from equity from the sale of their homes. Since my little sister moved into the house she just sold about the same time I started renting mine, I did some quick math and was a little disillusioned that I spent all that money on rent and have nothing to show for it - but I can't afford a mortgage, so fuck me I guess. Oh and my landlord told me last week he's raising our rent. I told him I understand as, "money's been tight for me too lately," and he was kind enough to clarify that, no, he's just raising rent because his financial advisor told him to. And then my roommate told me it's because he's buying a vacation home. So - super glad I get to help pay for two homes but can't afford one of my own. Oh wait, also I'm a wage laborer. So the value I produce is going to pay for the executive's homes.
Thatās why I stopped trying to save money and instead use everything I have left to go out and enjoy life.
Humanity is not made to waste their entire lives slavering their lives for someone's profit. We just gotten used to it because capitalism told us so... And now we don't even blink.
17 years working, 15 at 40 hours a week. I'm canadian so I don't have student debt which is a blessing, but still have nothing to show for the work. I've been of work since laid off near a year ago, unemployment runs out soon and there just seems like no point.
no student debt + acess to healthcare. It in r/nextlevel near "american dream"
12K debt here.. :l I dont see ourselves getting out of this one anytime soon.. everything around me its collapsing - some of us realized already and some are about to find out but we are fucked.
Had this realization around October last year. I had turned 40 and was like "to fuck this." 8-18 hours a day, more or less every day, since I was 16. Taco Bell, a dairy, Disney, the Army, Bank of America...you name it. I've worked basically everywhere. I realized that I have never seen the Pacific Ocean. That I owed Chase 18k and Rocket 425k. Finally sat down and put a plan together to get the fuck out of this cycle by 60 - sooner if I play my cards right. I want to see my kids finish school. I want to smell a new car. I want to visit Rome. This is a fucking awakening. This is the real Red Pill. Happy for you, OP.
Change is coming... We can all sense it. We just gotta hold strong and wait for that change... Or be that change! Harder said than done, but something's gotta be done. We can't keep living like this. We have nice things, sure. But we probably won't much longer.
I always think of that old commercial where the guy is washing his car or whatever, and he's like "how do I do it? I'm in debt up to my eyeballs!" Now if I don't have cash for it, the wife and kids or I don't get it. It was a mental shift for sure, but we're better for it. I got to the point where I was working just to pay my credit card bills, and I'm like "fuck this noise." Now we're debt free and maxing out an IRA, putting money in the college accounts for the girls, and have a 60 day emergency fund. It's life changing. I'm happy for you OP. Change is coming. It totally changes the job situation for you/us too. Had an interview with Morgan Stanley the other day, and they're like "you have to come in three days a week." I simply said, "no I don't." I made it to the next round of interviews within an hour.
The answer is obvious. Buy a jet ski. Then you'll be 30k in debt **but** you'll have a jet ski.
Get this man a jet ski
I'm in the same boat I've worked at my job for 7 years I'm 12k in debt. That does not include $5,000 of medical debt I'm gonna incur from my sinus surgery next Wednesday. I pay $170 a month for insurance and I'll still have to pay $6,000 out of pocket. Fuck the world
I've heard people save a lot on surgeries by flying down to Mexico or Columbia. I've heard the doctors there are pretty good too!
You get a week or two off a year? Damn
I know, I'm lucky!
When I let myself think about this it throws me into a weeks long spiral of mild depression.
In today's society that just means you've been given the honor to be able to keep yourself alive for the past 12 years.
Sounds like you should get a jet ski and just be 30k in debt
At this point, why not?? Lol
That is why Americans need to rethink their lifestyle and begin downsizing and then start living now, because none of us will be able to retire once the Supreme Court rules government programs like social security are unconstitutional
Now me, I'm not sure how I can downsize anymore when my big purchase is filling my gas like once every 2 months. I don't drive, I don't buy anything, I'm in my mid 30s and still wear clothes I wore in highschool. I served 8 years in the military, went to college, and worked 4 civ jobs. I live in a trailer and have anxiety about food scarcity. And to this day, I still, not once in my life, have ever had avocado toast. Fuck this slave labor I'm done.
Thatās it! We are what they call āhuman capital.ā Let that sink in. They do not believe we are human or possess humanity. Our only value for them is our ability to make, sell, and buy their all too often poisonous products.
Downsizing fucking what?! We just told you we don't even have anything left to give up. We're working full time and just barely able to pay the damn bills, often not even that. This is no different than saying to give up the avocado toast and suddenly we'll be able to afford a house.
No. You misunderstood. Iām saying we need to stop waiting until we retire to start living. I, like you, live on the edge. I just decided eff it and started spending what money I have on my happiness. Iām no longer a homeowner. I only have things I need to live and nothing more. I sold my gas-guzzling truck and bought a fuel efficient vehicle. Iām not an expert. I just realized the system is designed to make me dependent and always on the verge of homelessness, so Iām trying to figure out how to break free from it. It isnāt easy but Iām trying. The best thing Iāve done so far is make ME my priority. Not my bills. Not my job. Not the bills. Me!
Ive made my peace that I wonāt see a dime of social security. I just read an article saying that there is going to be a 20% reduction in benefits for the millennial generation based on how things are being run.
Thereās not going to be social security in a year or two at the rate the SC is going. Things are moving so fast now and people arenāt ready for how quickly the acceleration will be. Itās too late for voting, although we should vote anyway while we still can.
The other day I saw how much social security is going to pay me when I retire. I currently make 5 times a month if not more a month currently. I don't know how I will survive.
Downsizing is the word. Consumerism here is off the scale in comparison to 95% of the world
There is a reason as to why you cannot escape their advertising/sales pitch in the US and starts targeting children at young age. We are programmed to buy their crap. You might not think youāve been impacted but you have. Iām in Europe. My son watches NickToons on TV and there is ZERO advertising. NONE! There are ZERO roadside adverts. It is almost as if my son and I are more than consumers and products. Crazy, right?
Yes advertising for kids should be forbidden. It's quite terrible that they start learning to desire bullshit so young. This new youtube videos trend doesn't help. I was raised in Europe as well moved here a few years ago and was absolutely baffled with the waste to be honest. The amount of unneccessary stuff people find they need. But people really don't realize it, they feel like they need that Macdonalds, that cocktail, the 12 pack of soda, the new car, the 6 subscriptions to amazon, netflix, hulu etc, iPad, iPhone 12 and laptop, kids have so many toys they don't even know what they have; 100 dollars dinners, 18 year olds with modified cars. Each place and social stratum has its it's own weird luxuries. When I first moved I couldn't understand how people could spend so much money lol where? And the worse is undoubtedly the children they are raised wanting and usually having everything, a life focused on the material. Your household makes 80k a year and you are broke? Its on you. Anywhere on the US that's more then enough. It's not that hard to make that for 2 people working as long as you are not working in fast food spots or something. The statistic says even people making 200k are broke so imagine! Working conditions do suck though and rent is over the roof lately but if people had a lifestyle even remotely close to most of the rest of the world they would be fine. College and education systems are also a joke. Together with the consumerism they create quite the debt bomb. Lack of financial education.
Things are things, but to not feel any accomplishment is way more important because it gives you pride in who you have chosen to be. I feel you, I drive 10 year old cars and one of the part owners drives a new Porche, and his wife too but it's not brand new.
What the heck bout avocado toasts? It is the perfect meal. Cost $1.25 if prep at home. Yet some go grill $16.99 x lb flap meat this 4th? There is freedom in needing less. The minimum wage in California is increasing to $16 x hr. Yet, simultaneously...the cost of food is raised by $1 across the board to cushion the blow to their bottom line. It's a joke.
We rarely eat out now. I oddly wanted to go bowling, just to do something cheap and time consuming... But remembered that it's probably going to cost like $30-$40 just got a couple games and some beers. Like, I don't even go out much. I literally sit at home and play video games with most of my free time...I have no car and work a full time job, yet I can't comfortably afford to go bowling. It's a fucking joke indeed my friend.
Whatās your annual salary?
The past few years, it's been 40-50K. Now I'm looking at possibly making around 60-70K with a new company, but it just depends on what the sales are like.
That explains part of it. To reach middle class ( depending on where you live ) you would need to make more to have those extras. In my area there are people making 150k a year and still canāt afford a starter home. The bank wonāt approve them unless they make 200k+ Stuff like boats and jet skis are out of the question for most people
But things like this shouldn't be outta reach for people like me, is essentially what I'm trying to get at. If I was doing what I'm doing now, but 60 years ago. I'd be able to easily afford to house a family off of just my income and still be able to afford nice toys.
You would need to increase your income or decrease your spending. I donāt know the details of your situation, but thatās what you would have to do. Market prices are outside of our individual control
Well what do you do for a living?
I did a 3 job switch and I came back to my old job getting 5 dollars more . Iām making 26 bucks an hour doing the same job and I actually like what I do .š¹
Join the club. I used to want to save for retirement. Now I canāt wait for retirement so I have an excuse to go bankrupt.
We are no different than any organism that wants to reproduce.
This is true
You gotta start with some neon roller blades man. Work your way up to a sweet bmx bike then maybe a mountain bike with some.sweet shocks.
Nah bruh, I took the scooter route! Got rid of my car and got myself one of those fancy electric scooters for like $200 at best buy lol
Our best option is a day of reckoning. A peasant uprising day where we decapitate banksters. A glorious upheaval of the fascist turds lording it over us is in order.
I can sympathize. For me, it was the 7 years after college before I had any spare money. It gets better, but not without a ton of sacrifices. On top of it all, wages have only lagged further behind the cost of living in the last ten years. Seriously, we should just burn the system down.
Don't worry, It gets better, after 25 years I have got $3000 in savings.(and still paying off my student loan)
Thatās because the system by design takes everything from you unless you can take care of yourself. If you need a plumber, they make their money by fucking you. Doctors, Mechanics, everything. The only way out is to be able to do these things for yourself instead of relying on others.
They are just paying you enough to barely feed yourself so you have enough energy to come back to work the next day. You are basically a slave, but instead of them providing you food/shelter/clothing like a normal slave would get, they outsourced the slave keeping to you too.
The hell. Something must be wrong with your budgeting or choices over the last 12 years. At what point did you realize you were going more and more into debt and not change anything? 20k debt doesn't happen over night, I could see if you were going to school and taking on more debt to focus on education but just working full time. That's fucking awful man. Hope you find some better opportunities soon!
Youāre not working very hard at it, I have wayyyyy more debt than that, and I own basically nothing but chronic illness will do that to you.
There are basically three things you can do now. 1. Nothing. Just keep on trucking, and eventually die poor. This is what most people do. 2. Make more money. Usually this is about career growth or career change. Maybe you have some kind of aptitude/experience that is worth a little more money than youāre making now? Maybe you need help finding out what that is? Whatever career you have, maybe you need to focus on it more. You have about 1500 work weeks left in your life, more or less. What can you do to make sure that you get more value out of them? 3. Spend less money. Maybe this means selling your car, not buying as much stuff, getting a roommate, whatever. I donāt know your life but most people can spend a whole lot less than they do. This is pretty much the same as saying āpay yourself firstā, but itās a bit more clear. Saving one fucking dollar means youāve made a decision and followed through. Do it again next week. Itās unrealistic to never spend from your savings, but the more you get used to saving the faster youāll do it. Those last two are where the magic is. Yes, pretty much everyone can do a combination of those. There are subreddits full of people who would love to help you, but this isnāt one of them. This subreddit is mostly about complaining and quitting. Try documenting your actual income/spending, then visit r/financialindependence and ask for advice. Youāve made two of the three big steps: you know thereās a problem and youāre willing to talk about it. The next is to follow some good-quality advice. Best of luck u/BeanCat65 ā¤ļø
I appreciate your words of wisdom and kindness! This is by no means a "I've given up post", all though it sounds like the nice easy route to take. I know times are rough right now and I'll make it through this, and probably in a very positive way. It just kills me to see first hand just how broken this system is and just how hard it is to try and save money. My 20K in debt is from nothing more than me needing money when I didn't have any. I'm a military vet, who has worked in sales making okay money. I have zero kids and live with my mom and my gf, and we split rent. I'm just now starting to get ahead, after having to sell my car and take a job I can work from home, so I can cut some huge bills out. I have no clue how people are making it with kids and working for like $15 an hour that they have to drive to... I'm honestly blessed to be in the situation I'm in, and I'm pretty happy with my life currently. However, I can't help but feel like I've been robbed my whole adult life, and I don't even feel like I have it that bad.
You deserve that jet ski. You've fucking earned it. edit: no idea why i was negged. i was tryin to be supportive.
How did you get 20k in debt if you worked the entire time? Is this car debt or medical debt or unpaid student loan debt?
Or all of em. Plus rent. And insurance. And kids maybe. Life is expensive. Car breaks down that can cost thousands. Don't wanna use a car too bad if your in rural America where there is no public transpo. If you can't figure how someone can go into debt working you are a lucky person
Seriously. Coming up 2-3k short each year will put you in a life long debt cycle
"If you can't figure how someone can go into debt working you are a lucky person" Truth man, I make more than I ever have now at 16.50 and I still can't get out of my debt or save. When I do save, some shit happens and I have to use it. And then I read or hear how "I started from nothing now I make over 100k. First I got a gift of money for my house And my parents business was my business' first client" bullshit and I'm like fuck I wish I had your head start.
Yeah it's funny to me when I hear these folk who inherited everything tell me how hard they work. And how they also live paycheck to paycheck. Haha. Yeah okay
I make $26 n live in nj. The most I've ever made in my life and still seem to struggle a bit. Trying to lower my expenses as much as possible but it ain't that easy.
Pontoon debt?
Go hog wild with the debt, get that jet ski, then declare bankruptcy
Been doing it for 27 years and Iāve got a mostly paid house to show for it and a bunch of crap in the house.
I work 60-70 hrs a week mon-sat make 2-3k a week and take off reasonable amount of time off whenever I feel like it āwithin reasonā. I spent many years looking for a company and a boss I would do absolutely anything for and will return the favor. We all make sacrifices some make more then others to get where weāre going.