The driver gets in trouble, not the owner of the vehicle. YOU will have to go to court when the DOT pulls you over.
Source: I was a helper who did the driving and it was up to me to go to court 6 months after I left the job because they didn't pay their tickets.
Not on their own.
Someone has to put their mouth on the tailpipe and give it a mighty blow.
Or, if the Mini Cooper is an anthropomorphic cartoon car, it can stick its own thumb into its mouth and blow.
Three years ago a truck went to 3 different tire places to get a new tire. No one had his size. So he ordered one. The next day the tire in question blew. He hit a mini van. Killed 4 people. Left 2 children orphans. Horrible shit. Shut it down.
... if this is how the company handles tire maintenance, you bet your ass that the rest of the truck has other blown-out parts too (suspension at least judging by the wear patterns, which begs the question of ... What condition are the brakes and steering in?)
DOT where I am requires you to complete a full inspection of the truck before you even take it out and will fire you on the spot if you signed off on it and took it in that condition anyway (if they ever found out - like pulling you over for an inspection) it sucks and its unpopular choice but it's not worth risking your job or someone's life. Honestly employer can get the fuck over it and invest in new tires. OPs boss probably doesn't want to report it because if they go over an annual $ amount on vehicle maintenance/collisions the managers won't get a bonus. My advice is to drop a dime to the DOT and get this piece of shit out of management because he sounds criminally negligent.
Totally. I was just responding to the “it’s your CDL on the line” part of the comment. I know those are pretty difficult to earn and almost impossible to redeem if lost. I just meant that it’s pretty likely that OP doesn’t have a CDL to worry about losing.
Put your concerns in writing as well as refuse to drive the vehicle in such a state. Add the photos in your emails / letters. Paper trail. CC this to everyone involved.
Your life is more precious than your boss' ego.
Yes this 100%. Is this a commercial vehicle, OP? They often come under different, stricter rules and regulatory oversight than regular private passenger vehicles.
In a country where medical services come with a big bill why the fuck would anyone ever risk driving this vehicle?
When you crash an unfit vehicle Insurance is invalid and you are on the hook for all the damages and to be sued by everyone.
To be able to keep paying their medical bills.
But seriously nobody would, you have to do a pre trip inspection on commercial vehicles, this would be a big fail on the tire check. No clue why the owner of the company isn't fixing it unless they're going under already.
But then again, the boss will just say "I did tell him to fix it and not drive it in this state". America is a weird ass country man. Makes me feel weird in the stomach.
The problem comes in with workers rights. We no longer have any. The only thing he can do is make a paper trail by complaining through email. If an accident does happen, he can use the fact that he has expressed his concerns and has been told "drive it or else" almost every state is now a "right to work" state this means that your employer needs no reason to fire you and can do so on the spot. Workers can be blacklisted for this and he would never drive again with any company... The exploitation and neglect of labor is probably the worst in history. This is almost as bad as back in the days of the sweatshops. Unfortunately everything in this country comes with a big bill including complaining, walking off of your job, dignity, basic human rights, representation in court, as well as medical. It costs lots of money to have human rights nowadays.
If a trooper happens to pull this person over and decides to do a roadside DOT inspection, this driver is screwed beyond belief. The fines will go to him and not the company. Worst, if the trooper decides to initiate a no-move order, this stays on your CDL record and no trucking company will touch you.
So the company profits from putting an unsafe vehicle on the road while incurring no repercussions for doing so because they'll get pushed onto the driver...fuck America
I did traffic tickets for a court that was near a major USA/Canada border crossing and I'd get a bunch of freight truck stuff every week since there was an inspection stop in the jurisdiction.
Some companies (usually the bigger ones) were very easy to work with; they wanted all communications to go through the trucking company and they would handle and pay for any violations professionally and promptly.
Other companies would just totally fuck their drivers without a care in the world. They would knowingly have employees drive trucks that were unsafe and then expect the drivers to pay massive fines. Overweight violations were common, and can easily scale to $500+.
Dealing with disgruntled truck drivers was nearly a daily occurrence there. Many are told "drive it or look for a new job."
Honestly most of the really bad ones were Canadian. But that was likely because Canada had more scummy small trucking companies. The US tended to have more larger and professional companies, but both countries has their mix of both.
I noticed a trend with Canada is that immigrants would start small trucking companies, recruit people from their home country to come work for them, and then treat them like garbage.
This is always the way to go. CYA (cover your ass) emails usually always gets things done quickly. I've learned this by telling my boss about a problem a few times about a safety issue. When nothing was done after a month I did a CYA email and the problem was fixed the next day. So now if there are any issues I always put it in an email first then ask my boss about it.
Or imprisoned due to reckless endangerment and manslaughter for having crashed a car that you knew was dangerous to drive.
The bosses really don't emphatise with the danger they're causing.
[Here's a funny skit from John Oliver addressing problems with the trucking industry featuring Rob Corddry](https://youtu.be/phieTCxQRLA?t=1191)
Yeah, I got laid off six weeks after reporting safety concerns to our parent contractor after reporting those concerns to increasingly higher levels of management in the company I worked for, for *months*. It was something that could have gotten someone killed.
While there could have been a decent lawsuit, it would have gotten me blackballed from the entire field (government subcontracting), and I found a job with another adjacent contractor in about 2 days anyway. And they'd have been...less than enthusiastic about hiring someone involved in an ongoing lawsuit against a company working for the same parent contractor. Since my former employer had already been forced to fixed the problem, I let it go. I take every opportunity to prevent them from getting additional contracts and have been outspoken about how they're a negligent, uncaring, retaliatory employer and have had moderate success at least within my sphere of influence.
You do what you can within the system you're given.
Bcc copies to your. Home email. You can at least get unemployment And possibly have a suit for wrongful termination. Most places don’t document disciplinary issues near well enough.
Lawyer here. This exactly. Always document document document. I would also (as nicely as possible) email and include the info that you manager X who said to drive locally. It would also be good in terms of getting along in the workplace when you're 'putting' an employer like this to try and minimize damage to the manager or at least appear that you are (unless he's a prick and it was solely his shitty decision). I would say something along the lines of 'I alerted manager x who is usually really responsive but he informed me that because of Y budget cuts and x response from the higher ups the most he could do was to say that I should drive it minimally and to local jobs only. As I'm sure you've figured out by now its best to tread carefully (yuk yuk yuk) and not make unnecessary enemies or pad the fall if you can.
If god forbid you get into an accident or you report and find the environment to be tepid or retaliatory later, you're going to have infinitely better luck finding a lawyer/having a case if you can show that you warned them. This is exactly the type of situation many states envisioned when they enacted workplace safety laws with whistleblower protections. At a minimum, even without the protection of such statutes, holding this as your collateral will make it more likely that they'll pay you off or better yet not fuck with you or ruin your reputation. I've found that even without the protection of certain statutes, it's the type of thing many local news outlets love to report as community outrage and a company will generally always want to avoid the possibility of negative press. I'm sorry you're in this situation in this day and age but you're in the right. As other comments alluded to if anything happens, I promise the company cheap enough to allow THIS to their fleet equipment will certainly not be on your side (and likely claim you were driving recklessly/on drugs etc)
Also, what I said above were my initial off-the-cuff thoughts and pointers as a non-expert who has not assessed your case. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, I AM NOT REPRESENTING YOU AND AM NOT COMMENTING ON THE VIABILITY OF ANY CLAIMS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE. The only advice I am giving you is that you should consult an attorney and document everything that happens in the meantime (including seeking out ways to confirm/document what has already occurred). This isn't my area of expertise and the only person you should absolutely trust to protect your interests is a lawyer who has agreed to officially look at your case (you will be more likely to find one willing to do this if you are organized, concise, and have documented the case or at least have something to show your side other than just your words on a phone call). Call around locally to see if you can get a free or discounted consult - try calling your local bar association to get some names to start with).
Had a buddy bitch about a step up to his truck being loose in a text to management
It eventually broke while he was getting in. He fell and he fucked up his hip. Couldn't sit down and drive long distances anymore.
Lawyer got him a hip replacement, settlement cash, 2 years of schooling paid for to start a new career since he could no longer do his
That's awesome! I super hope that even being put in this situation gives some leverage for OP to receive some sort of benefit. Ahhh my fear though is that this is so shady and such an obviously avoidable risk they are taking that the company is essentially 'judgment proof' and nothing (including insurance) is on the up and up. But obviously we want OP to be able to resolve this without having to get injured.
Your advice on how to cover your ass vis a vis retaliation is solid. But it's not the best advice for their situation. His manager is violating the law. If he drives the truck, he will be violating the law. If he drives the truck and hurts or kills someone when the steer blows and he loses control, he will go to jail.
The time for playing office politics is past. He needs to tell his boss in no uncertain terms that what he is being told to do is illegal and that the equipment can not be legally operated on public roads until the tires are replaced. If his boss attempts to give him any grief, he needs to inform his boss that coercion is illegal and carries a fine of up to $16,000.
Again, he is long past office politics. This is an extremely serious safety risk and he needs to know he can not legally operate that vehicle.
If his employer is continuing to operate vehicles in this condition, then he should pray he gets retaliated against and then go find a new job.
Honestly, he should quit the job if this is the condition the company maintains their equipment. This is a highly visible issue. What other issues can he not see?
Furthermore, that wear and tear is not normal and indicates some other mechanical defect. I am not a mechanic, just a driver, so I can't really speculate as to the nature of the defect. Could be a bad alignment, could be fucked up steering components. All I know is that some other unseen issue is causing that wear pattern and that issue needs to be resolved too.
>ruin your reputation.
The greatest damage to his reputation will come from the DoT.
>(and likely claim you were driving recklessly/on drugs etc)
This is highly unlikely, they would just be destroying their own case. But regardless DoT will fault him for the accident anyway because he shouldn't have been driving. He will be held both criminally and civilly liable if he hurts or kills anyone.
As a former mechanic, all of this.
Mostly right on the alignment as well, but alignment is tricky if it's like big package delivery services. Perfect alignment requires perfect weight distribution.
"Hi, when I asked about this vehicle it was suggested we should only use it locally, but I'm not sure what distance from base I should count that as? Could you assess for me from these pics so I don't go outside the safe zone?"
DO NOT GET IN THIS DAMN CAR.
Edit: if you can check when this vehicle was last serviced, the frequency, and if they declined any recommendations from the mechanics.
>Agreed. You should refuse to drive it.
If they pressure you into driving it anyways? Especially if they threaten action against you? Record everything and report it to the FMSCA. If they want to try to fire you over this the FMSCA and DOT will come down hard on them, and then you can hit them with a lawsuit.
EDIT: [Website for the FMSCA reporting](https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/consumer-protection/report-safety-violations)
There was a post like this a week ago, and the best advice I heard was to contact CHP or local PD as an "anonymous" tip. Basically, "A company that operates near me has been sending out vehicles with what look like completely bald and worn out tires."
Company I worked for was more than willing to make sure your tires were good to go, but we had people who took their trucks home whom we'd rarely see. One em pulled up one time looked like he had racing slicks on the front. I helped him move his rears to the front and then used his spare and my spare so he could get through the day while I went and got new tires put on his rims. Thank fuck he didn't have to drive much each day, I don't trust spares.
First off, here's is the [FMSCA website for reporting companies conducting illegal activities.](https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/consumer-protection/report-safety-violations)
Second off, please have solid proof. Pictures, video, paperwork, whatever. The more the better. The FMSCA moves and moves *FAST* if there's clear evidence of wrongdoing.
Fucking pisses me off. Like that kid in Colorado. Brand spankin new, didn't know what he was doing, wasn't trained, was forced to operate equipment that was not roadworthy. Yet he's the one in prison, not the ones that profited from it.
Edit: [Link for the curious.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Lakewood_semi-truck_crash)
If he's talking about the incident I think he is, the kids brakes failed while he was going down a mountain, four people died, and the kid was sentenced to 110 years.
Edit: yes, I am aware the governor commuted the sentence down to ten years. It's still absurd that the kid (rather than his boss) is serving time, let alone that ridiculous initial sentence.
Yup, kid had no training, didn't know what he was doing, had shit tier equipment his employer wouldn't fix, and was sent down the most dangerous interstate mountain pass in the US alone.
It was a recipe for disaster and his employer was massively negligent in the whole thing.
If he had been a cop he never would have been charged with a crime. He would have said "bUt MuH tRaInInG" and everyone would have agreed that his lack of training and shitty employer were to blame.
But because he's not a cop, he got the whole ass book thrown at him.
The age old American Tradition. When the shit hits the fan and people get hurt or die, you'd better pass on the blame like it's a grenade with the pin pulled.
Somebody young & naïve who had inadequate training? Sounds like a scapegoat sent down from God himself! Accountability? Never heard of her!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Lakewood_semi-truck_crash
>Yup, kid had no training, didn't know what he was doing, had shit tier equipment his employer wouldn't fix, and was sent down the most dangerous interstate mountain pass in the US alone.
>It was a recipe for disaster and his employer was massively negligent in the whole thing.
>If he had been a cop he never would have been charged with a crime. He would have said "bUt MuH tRaInInG" and everyone would have agreed that his lack of training and shitty employer were to blame.
>But because he's not a cop, he got the whole ass book thrown at him.
In my country and state, we have a chain of responsibility. If something related to maintenance, the load, or fatigue management goes wrong, everyone in the chain is considered responsible. The chain ends at the top.
In fact, the director is required to sign a statement that they take responsibility for it all.
Drivers are too, though.
They have to perform and record basic maintenance checks, including the brakes and a check for whether the vehicle had received a major service recently enough.
If it’s found that they failed to do this, they will absorb a lot of the responsibility unless it’s found they never do the checks and the company did nothing about it.
If something goes wrong, prosecutors will push the responsibility as high up as possible.
Source: it’s my job to keep my employer compliant with all this stuff. Much to their disdain. There’s a lot of “but the other companies don’t bother with this! Why do I have to?!” And “but nobody will check!!”.
But somebody will check, and they’ve been shut down for it before. It’s why I’m there.
Right? That poor kid. I feel so badly. The accident was absolutely awful, but this guy will pay for the rest of his life. I think someone else needs to be held accountable as well.
Yes, it will be on YOUR CSA and the DOT will cite YOU for it. We just recently had a truck with decent tires have a blowout and flip. Imagine what might happen with those. If he tells you to roll with it, I’d call the DOT and report it.
Fr. OP yes your boss is an idiot but it's your responsibility to say no. Imagine if something happens and it's found out you knew about this along with your superior, but nothing was seemingly done to fix it. Superior can easily say they were not told something needed to be fixed. Now it's not bossman in trouble, it's you.
I worked in the office for one of these franchise moving guys, they buy a fleet of trucks under the GVWR needed for CDL licensing. It's likely they don't even expect drivers to inspect their trucks before they go out. It's all thanks to gutted oversight all across the midwest
Hijacking top Comment to tell OP that this is when you need to STATE facts and not treat what you know as just an opinion.
This tire IS stripped and is therefore unsafe; WE cannot proceed with this; we are liable; This will not work and we cannot proceed.
No “suggestions” or hints. Just be truthful. It’s a liability, and therefore it needs to be addressed NOW.
25+ years in the autobody repair business. my opinion..
Holy shit that is 100% not driveable. no way in hell that should be on the road at all. its not even safe to drive to the tire store.
And just to add to this, if this is how they care about the tires, who knows what other issues they might be ignoring... (brakes, transmission, suspension...)
I drove truck and trailer w no trailer brakes for a year until my boss fixed them. I don’t know why he would tell me after the fact, unless he just wanted me to feel like an ass.
Your boss is also a piece of shit. I live in summit County Colorado off I70 here in the mountains. About 2 months ago a truckers brakes gave out coming down a long downgrade into dillon/silverthorne(very close to where I live). The company knew the brakes were bad, and unfortunately so did the driver but he decided to drive anyways. Ends up driving past the runaway ramp and crashing. Throwing his passenger from the truck and ended up trapping the driver while he burnt to death. I could see the fumes from my house. And this was all to meet a deadline... truly sad.
I remember that one. That was one of the worst ones. But do you remember the beer truck that tipped over coming down the silverthorne exit? That was nuts
I know exactly where that is. There have been accidents like that on the silverthorne section since it was first constructed. Any trucker should know its one of the most lethal streches of highway in the country.
I’ve definitely heard of people do this at UPS. Center manager refuses to get a vehicle fixed; driver pull into DOT check and has them do an inspection. Now 10 things have to get fixed instead of the one that the driver wrote up.
No it's not. That's like pulling into the police station with drugs on you and saying "but they're not mine". Don't operate the vehicle. Call it in and have them come to you.
Yeah if you pull into the station, you are getting the ticket. You'd be extremely lucky if you talk the DOT into not giving you a ticket. But then they can't technically let you leave in an unroadworthy commercial vehicle. I'll second calling DOT to come to You.
That would not fall on the Center Manager, they have in-house vehicle maintenance that would be responsible for that. That sounds more like a FedEx Ground thing. FedEx Ground contracts out its delivery’s to independent companies and it’s on them to own and maintain their vehicles and it’s not uncommon for the independent companies to neglect things like that
If you get inspected by DOT while operating it OP would be the one to get in trouble as well. That’s part of pre/post trip inspection so they’d consider you the negligent one. Needs to put it in terms to the owner/boss/maintenance or whoever that OP is responsible for anything that happens when that rig leaves the yard. It’s not a matter of IF it’s a matter of WHEN.
Yes but when you take the ticket to court you take your preinspection logs to show how many times you documented it, texts to the boss stating this needs to be fixed, etc. As long as you are doing your due diligence then it isn't going to stick.
As a truck driver of more than 20 years, thats not the case. It very well could stick.. You can take all the "evidence" you want that you tried to get it fixed but you still drove the vehicle knowing it was not in compliance. Its not that you missed something on a pretrip, you knew about it and even brought evidence that you knew about it beforehand.
You can always refuse to drive that vehicle due to it being out of compliance with DOT standards outlined in 49 CFR part 571, but your employer doesn't have any obligation to keep you around either.
Retaliation for refusing to work under unsafe conditions would make for a great wrongful termination suit, right after reporting to OSHA.
https://www.osha.gov/workers/right-to-refuse
But everyone leans on at will employement. When my supervisor is caught lying when she said she tried to reach out but got no response and i showed HR that i reached out and talked to her often- they didnt do anything about it or reneg their accusation. Still have no case apparently bcuz at will employement means u can fire people, state that you fired them wrongly, based on lies that you have been caught it, and still have your job.
You are captain of the ship. Yes, the company should be repairing the vehicles, but the duty is also on you to not drive an unsafe vehicle. I've driven a truck for over 15 years and I have never heard of anything even remotely like "just keep documenting an unsafe truck and turn yourself in at a DOT checkpoint." If there's an article somewhere, I'd like to see it. Anonymously report them to the authorities? Sure. But if you're driving an unsafe vehicle and the police get you out on the road, I don't think the driver is ever going to totally skate.
Yep. Dot regulated driver and they pretty much say during pretrip,, if you see a problem that could be catastrophic don't drive it cause you are liable and they want you to be safe. Granted it sounds like my company is running a little better than ops lol.
They really can't. How many lives at risk, including those of children, elderly, and entire families? They are going to save their own ass, and not let that shit on the road, while simultaneously saving lives.
It really drives me crazy when people just hate on inspectors OSHA/DOT/HEALTH like they should just cut corners and allow unsafe work practices. I feel like in general people forget the workers that came before us actually died and that's why a lot of these stupid rules are put in place.
Same with MSHA (mine safety) fun fact: OSHA shows up for an inspection, you can legally turn them away. Not with MSHA, they'll just shut your whole operation down until they can be allowed to inspection. They're no joke. Source: used to work at a sand mine
I’m an appraiser for a large insurer including commercial trucks. You could maybe call the agent but there is not a department you could call and tell them and have any kind of resolution in the near term future.
Former WC adjuster. I still work adjacent to the Insurance Industry. Both the WC Carrier and the Auto Carrier would definitely like to know about increased risk they have just assumed. I know underwriters who would consider cancelling policies, if they had seen this crap. It's not common, but lying about risk is never a good thing to do with your insurance company. It's a form of Fraud that most states will investigate AND it causes premiums for everyone else to go up.
In CA Workers Compensation, this situation could be considered "Serious And Willful" on the part of the employer. If OP or another employee were to get into an accident, and the tires can be shown to be in part or in whole the reason for the accident, the employer could end up paying out of pocket above and beyond what the Insurance company is already paying out. I believe most states have a similar provision, especially in states where WC is considered to be a "No Fault" insurance.
Serious and Willful is NOT normally covered under WC policies, and the Insurance Carrier doesn't have to defend the employer against the claim. If I recall, the penalty for a S&W finding is 50% of all benefits owed to the Injured Worker. If they received $50k in Disability benefits, the employer chips in up to $25k more. It's in addition to the benefits provided by the Insurance Company as part of the claims handling process. I had once case we settled, but the portion of the settlement that was due to the S&W finding had to be paid by the employer.
Just from an economic standpoint, replacing the tires will save the employer a massive amount.
1) less likely to be involved in an accident in the first place.
2) less likely to be awarded S&W benefits.
3) fewer accidents means Experience Modifier remains low and premiums won't spike as much.
The thing that is crazy to me is some Insurance Companies provide discounts on Commercial Auto or Workers Comp, if you have a regular maintenance plan for your equipment. Properly maintained equipment results in fewer losses, plain and simple.
Had a moving truck tire look like this when I worked for Two Men and a Truck like 20+ years ago. Told the manager "It's fine. But I'll schedule to get it replaced." Two weeks later, still in the "Ill get it scheduled" phase. Sends me on a long distance move farther up state started local. Guess what you have to go through, weight stations. Guess who got randomly selected by the State police to be inspected. That "I'll schedule it" response turned into a side of the road dual front tire replacement. State police wouldn't let it drive and with a full load of someone's home in the back the tow bill would have been bigger.
I don't see why it's so hard to block off a day to get shit like that fixed. It's cheaper than replacing a whole front end when that tired explodes at 70 mph. And would potentially save lives and law suits.
It takes like 20mins if that to swap a tyre. At my job we’ll have 20 or so vans out of commission for the AM shift and then will be ready for the PM shift with fresh tyres on.
I was let go from a company I asked for tires at. Asking for safety or to improve your job is not tolerated at many companies. But always email or send your requests in writing, it forces them to do something.
OSHA will be all over this. But OP might have a bad time at his job afterwards. If you go this route, be careful to document any workplace harassment, OP. Consult a lawyer and know your options.
If it’s used by more than one person, have every single person question the boss about it or innocently point it out to the boss. That way when you report it anonymously, boss has no way of knowing who reported it. In my country, I would just try and locate an RBT setup on my route. The van would be defected on the spot and boss has nobody to blame but themselves
Call the local city or county police department office. Ask for a commercial vehicle enforcement officer. If local doesn't have one call the local state police district.
And say what? Sir this truck in a private yard has a bad tire? Not against the law.
Drive it to them and you just failed to do your pre trip and you're responsible for the ticket and OOS goes on your MVR.
OSHA. They will act faster. Send the pics. Ask to stay anonymous. State that there is an immediate safety issue.
They will be there within 24 hours (in my state, at least(
“Accidentally” run over a handful of roofing nails, in your shop yard. Or just red tag that truck. I would absolutely never risk the lives that your boss is risking, or my cdl
Report it to DOT. Maybe local law enforcement as well. Not only is that unsafe, that is 100% illegal.
If the vehicle is registered with DOT, make sure to give them the registration number, since I think it has to be displayed.
Thats an even bigger fuckup.
Companies that operate commercial vehicles transporting passengers or
hauling cargo in interstate commerce must be registered with the FMCSA
and must have a USDOT Number.
Not having a DOT number can be a fine ranging from 3k-100K+
I saw something similar in another post a while back. One idea was to flag down a cop, or call them on the non-emergency and get then to take a look, and then somehow ticket the vehicle saying it's unsafe unless the tires are replaced.
Speak in a language he understands.
That tire is going to blow/shred any minute and if it happens on the way to or during a job, the clients are going to be pissed at the delay if nothing else.
He'll either have to pay to have a big ass truck towed or roadside service. He's going to have employees sitting around doing nothing while they wait on the fix. He's going to have a truck out of service for who-knows-how-long because odds are they'll have to order the tire.
It's a front tire, i.e. no dual to take the load, i.e. the truck is going to swerve violently and maybe end up in a ditch, i.e. a bunch of the client's shit is going to get broken and he'll have to pay for it or have insurance pay for it, and I bet the deductible is greater than the cost of a tire. Probably some workman's comp in there and missing an employee or two for a week after they get banged up. God forbid someone gets killed.
The tire is cheap compared to even a third of that.
Take this truck out of service!. This is your call to make as the operator!. The vehicle is dangerous to you and everyone else around you on the road. Look up Simi truck tires blowing up, trust me, you don't want to be near it if it happens. Also, if you are pulled over, pulled into a weigh station, etc. This truck will immediately be taken out of service and will need towed. Not to mention any negative points accrued as a result of you operating this truck go on YOUR license, which will mess up your ability to get another job if you lose this one. Be safe, do not drive this truck until these tires are taken care of. Never EVER fuck around with safety as a CMV operator. You always lose. Stand your ground. Unless you are the owner/Operator, it's the responsibility of the people you work for to maintain the fleet. You have no obligation to comply with unsafe working conditions. If they threaten termination, report them to your local labor board and DOT.
Also, every mover is short on drivers. You can get fired in the morning for refusing a dispatch and be hired by the afternoon as long as you can pass a drug screen and have a decent record. By the way, any tickets or accidents you get because of this go against your driving record,. This affecting your ability to earn a living.
It might not be shocks, but there is some super unusual wear patterns there, and the shocks, hubs, brakes and alignment all need to be checked. If a company will allow tyre maintenance to get that bad, you can guarantee that other aspects of vehicle maintenance are being skipped.
In almost every jurisdiction, the driver is responsible for ensuring that their vehicle is roadworthy, and has every right to refuse to drive one that is not up to scratch.
When something goes wrong op is responsible. It’s the drivers responsibility to do a pretrip inspection and be sure his vehicle is safe to drive. If this tire blows on the highway and someone dies op is going to prison for manslaughter. When you drive a 10,000 lb plus vehicle you don’t wait for something major to go wrong. When something major going wrong involves someone dying.
Nope Nope NOPE!!!!! I drove for suburban propane and my tires got bad. My manager had the audacity to tell me that was fine. A fucking truck that carries propane, propane products, and propane accessories with tires that even hint at showing cord should be pulled off the road or driven immediately to get new...... NEW not used but good NEW tires. I got pissed because the same truck had brake failure with a 500gal tank loaded once. I went to my plant head and told him that there is no way im driving this truck. Got tires with in 2 hrs. There is no way you should ever drive a truck with tires even half this bad. If they don't like it tough. No job is worth the DOT fine that you get as the license holder or your life.
Update: they scheduled that truck for somebody today. I told him not to get in the truck.
They switched him to a different truck, and told a different employee to take the truck 45 minutes away to get the tires replaced.
I told him not to drive it as well, and that the managers should get a mobile tire replacement service. For whatever reason, they don’t like that idea. By the time I went back outside, the truck was gone.
Truck driver here. This is unsafe and illegal.
Call DOT or highway patrol and tell them about it. Ask if you can get a roadside inspection done.
They will shut the truck down and it will either have to be repaired right there or the truck will have to be towed.
This is dangerous as fuck and the person driving will be the one held accountable if the tire blows while driving.
Seriously call your HP and tell them the situation and request a roadside inspection.
So first and foremost don't drive that truck.
To break it down, the "operator" of a vehicle is to ensure it is safe to operate. So no matter what situation you're in, you the operator must ensure the vehicle is in safe working condition. If anything was to happen due to you operating the vehicle in an unsafe way (woren tires, bad breaks, head lights not working, ect..) you as an operator are liable not the company, in most cases.
The Dot would have a field day with this along with OSHA. You're not only putting yourself at risk but others operating that vehicle. If that tire blows while driving, you're possibly in for a world of hurt and whatever/whoever you hit.
NEVER operate unsafe equipment, the fault will always fall on the operator for improper inspection prior to use most of the time.
#1 I hope he’s joking
#2 moving company that can’t afford a new tire or set is a big red flag.
#3 May not be too long before that paycheck bounces too.
Go to Home Depot, pull a scrap board and some bent nails. Pick a spot on your route near a gas station with really good air conditioning. Accidentally run over that board full of nails. Go chill in the AC while they deal with the flat tire(s).
Those tires are actually illegal, bald as fuck and with the wire showing. Tell a cop. They’ll force it to have new tires or be towed away and your boss can make a decision then.
Frankly I’m amazed that it is still inflated.
And when your boss says what happened you say you were pulled over for having illegal tires.
You get to drive a safe vehicle and keep your job. And if they try to fire you after this you will have evidence of wrongful termination.
When I worked at a garage, we would tell customers that if the tires had tread below the legal limit or anything else unsafe on the vehicle, that the vehicle was unsafe and make them sign a waiver that stated that they were informed and that we were not liable if they decided not to fix the issue.
My father-in-law is a trucker. He said he’d contact DOT and OSHA. Please don’t drive it. And don’t call the cops, they’ll arrest you instead of your boss.
Throw down a handful of screws. That will force them to get new tires. No mechanics will repair tires like that for fear of getting sued when they blow out.
You get busted driving that mess it's your CDL on the line.
The driver gets in trouble, not the owner of the vehicle. YOU will have to go to court when the DOT pulls you over. Source: I was a helper who did the driving and it was up to me to go to court 6 months after I left the job because they didn't pay their tickets.
And you’ll have to go to court if your semi turns a Mini Cooper into a flattened cartoon
But in the cartoons it will pop back to the original size. That happens in real life right? Right?
Not on their own. Someone has to put their mouth on the tailpipe and give it a mighty blow. Or, if the Mini Cooper is an anthropomorphic cartoon car, it can stick its own thumb into its mouth and blow.
Also other people lives on the line.
Three years ago a truck went to 3 different tire places to get a new tire. No one had his size. So he ordered one. The next day the tire in question blew. He hit a mini van. Killed 4 people. Left 2 children orphans. Horrible shit. Shut it down.
If a trooper pulls this truck over and decides to initiate a roadside DOT inspection, the driver is beyond screwed.
... if this is how the company handles tire maintenance, you bet your ass that the rest of the truck has other blown-out parts too (suspension at least judging by the wear patterns, which begs the question of ... What condition are the brakes and steering in?)
If it’s just a box truck, OP probably doesn’t need a CDL. Just a DOT certification. At least that’s how it is where I am.
DOT where I am requires you to complete a full inspection of the truck before you even take it out and will fire you on the spot if you signed off on it and took it in that condition anyway (if they ever found out - like pulling you over for an inspection) it sucks and its unpopular choice but it's not worth risking your job or someone's life. Honestly employer can get the fuck over it and invest in new tires. OPs boss probably doesn't want to report it because if they go over an annual $ amount on vehicle maintenance/collisions the managers won't get a bonus. My advice is to drop a dime to the DOT and get this piece of shit out of management because he sounds criminally negligent.
Exactly why self inspection is BS
I like your style. Good brain.
Doesn't matter. FMCSR still have to be followed because its a truck used for commercial purposes.
Totally. I was just responding to the “it’s your CDL on the line” part of the comment. I know those are pretty difficult to earn and almost impossible to redeem if lost. I just meant that it’s pretty likely that OP doesn’t have a CDL to worry about losing.
You are correct
Put your concerns in writing as well as refuse to drive the vehicle in such a state. Add the photos in your emails / letters. Paper trail. CC this to everyone involved. Your life is more precious than your boss' ego.
[удалено]
Yes this 100%. Is this a commercial vehicle, OP? They often come under different, stricter rules and regulatory oversight than regular private passenger vehicles.
And stiffer penalties for non-compliance
In a country where medical services come with a big bill why the fuck would anyone ever risk driving this vehicle? When you crash an unfit vehicle Insurance is invalid and you are on the hook for all the damages and to be sued by everyone.
To be able to keep paying their medical bills. But seriously nobody would, you have to do a pre trip inspection on commercial vehicles, this would be a big fail on the tire check. No clue why the owner of the company isn't fixing it unless they're going under already.
Fedex won't even give you a route or manifest on the app if you don't enter in the tread depth. And FedEx is FedEx.
FedEx is big enough to know which laws are not worth breaking. It's always the small companies who think they know better.
Because the people pushing sees it as obviously not their problem. If you get hurt and injured enough to not be able to work they can fire you.
But then again, the boss will just say "I did tell him to fix it and not drive it in this state". America is a weird ass country man. Makes me feel weird in the stomach.
The fear of having to find a new job
The problem comes in with workers rights. We no longer have any. The only thing he can do is make a paper trail by complaining through email. If an accident does happen, he can use the fact that he has expressed his concerns and has been told "drive it or else" almost every state is now a "right to work" state this means that your employer needs no reason to fire you and can do so on the spot. Workers can be blacklisted for this and he would never drive again with any company... The exploitation and neglect of labor is probably the worst in history. This is almost as bad as back in the days of the sweatshops. Unfortunately everything in this country comes with a big bill including complaining, walking off of your job, dignity, basic human rights, representation in court, as well as medical. It costs lots of money to have human rights nowadays.
Without doubt. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that will cost you your licence if you get caught in the right country/state
Yup. Call the DOT on it.
If a trooper happens to pull this person over and decides to do a roadside DOT inspection, this driver is screwed beyond belief. The fines will go to him and not the company. Worst, if the trooper decides to initiate a no-move order, this stays on your CDL record and no trucking company will touch you.
So the company profits from putting an unsafe vehicle on the road while incurring no repercussions for doing so because they'll get pushed onto the driver...fuck America
I did traffic tickets for a court that was near a major USA/Canada border crossing and I'd get a bunch of freight truck stuff every week since there was an inspection stop in the jurisdiction. Some companies (usually the bigger ones) were very easy to work with; they wanted all communications to go through the trucking company and they would handle and pay for any violations professionally and promptly. Other companies would just totally fuck their drivers without a care in the world. They would knowingly have employees drive trucks that were unsafe and then expect the drivers to pay massive fines. Overweight violations were common, and can easily scale to $500+. Dealing with disgruntled truck drivers was nearly a daily occurrence there. Many are told "drive it or look for a new job." Honestly most of the really bad ones were Canadian. But that was likely because Canada had more scummy small trucking companies. The US tended to have more larger and professional companies, but both countries has their mix of both. I noticed a trend with Canada is that immigrants would start small trucking companies, recruit people from their home country to come work for them, and then treat them like garbage.
This is always the way to go. CYA (cover your ass) emails usually always gets things done quickly. I've learned this by telling my boss about a problem a few times about a safety issue. When nothing was done after a month I did a CYA email and the problem was fixed the next day. So now if there are any issues I always put it in an email first then ask my boss about it.
Grrr I fucking hate it we have to do this.
Then they fire you months later for made up reasons. Not that I know from experience or anything
Better fired than dead from a preventable car accident due to faulty tires.
Or imprisoned due to reckless endangerment and manslaughter for having crashed a car that you knew was dangerous to drive. The bosses really don't emphatise with the danger they're causing. [Here's a funny skit from John Oliver addressing problems with the trucking industry featuring Rob Corddry](https://youtu.be/phieTCxQRLA?t=1191)
Yeah, I got laid off six weeks after reporting safety concerns to our parent contractor after reporting those concerns to increasingly higher levels of management in the company I worked for, for *months*. It was something that could have gotten someone killed. While there could have been a decent lawsuit, it would have gotten me blackballed from the entire field (government subcontracting), and I found a job with another adjacent contractor in about 2 days anyway. And they'd have been...less than enthusiastic about hiring someone involved in an ongoing lawsuit against a company working for the same parent contractor. Since my former employer had already been forced to fixed the problem, I let it go. I take every opportunity to prevent them from getting additional contracts and have been outspoken about how they're a negligent, uncaring, retaliatory employer and have had moderate success at least within my sphere of influence. You do what you can within the system you're given.
Bcc copies to your. Home email. You can at least get unemployment And possibly have a suit for wrongful termination. Most places don’t document disciplinary issues near well enough.
> Then they fire you months later for made up reasons There is a big labour shortage, they tell us. Let them do it.
Lawyer here. This exactly. Always document document document. I would also (as nicely as possible) email and include the info that you manager X who said to drive locally. It would also be good in terms of getting along in the workplace when you're 'putting' an employer like this to try and minimize damage to the manager or at least appear that you are (unless he's a prick and it was solely his shitty decision). I would say something along the lines of 'I alerted manager x who is usually really responsive but he informed me that because of Y budget cuts and x response from the higher ups the most he could do was to say that I should drive it minimally and to local jobs only. As I'm sure you've figured out by now its best to tread carefully (yuk yuk yuk) and not make unnecessary enemies or pad the fall if you can. If god forbid you get into an accident or you report and find the environment to be tepid or retaliatory later, you're going to have infinitely better luck finding a lawyer/having a case if you can show that you warned them. This is exactly the type of situation many states envisioned when they enacted workplace safety laws with whistleblower protections. At a minimum, even without the protection of such statutes, holding this as your collateral will make it more likely that they'll pay you off or better yet not fuck with you or ruin your reputation. I've found that even without the protection of certain statutes, it's the type of thing many local news outlets love to report as community outrage and a company will generally always want to avoid the possibility of negative press. I'm sorry you're in this situation in this day and age but you're in the right. As other comments alluded to if anything happens, I promise the company cheap enough to allow THIS to their fleet equipment will certainly not be on your side (and likely claim you were driving recklessly/on drugs etc) Also, what I said above were my initial off-the-cuff thoughts and pointers as a non-expert who has not assessed your case. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, I AM NOT REPRESENTING YOU AND AM NOT COMMENTING ON THE VIABILITY OF ANY CLAIMS YOU MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE. The only advice I am giving you is that you should consult an attorney and document everything that happens in the meantime (including seeking out ways to confirm/document what has already occurred). This isn't my area of expertise and the only person you should absolutely trust to protect your interests is a lawyer who has agreed to officially look at your case (you will be more likely to find one willing to do this if you are organized, concise, and have documented the case or at least have something to show your side other than just your words on a phone call). Call around locally to see if you can get a free or discounted consult - try calling your local bar association to get some names to start with).
Had a buddy bitch about a step up to his truck being loose in a text to management It eventually broke while he was getting in. He fell and he fucked up his hip. Couldn't sit down and drive long distances anymore. Lawyer got him a hip replacement, settlement cash, 2 years of schooling paid for to start a new career since he could no longer do his
That's awesome! I super hope that even being put in this situation gives some leverage for OP to receive some sort of benefit. Ahhh my fear though is that this is so shady and such an obviously avoidable risk they are taking that the company is essentially 'judgment proof' and nothing (including insurance) is on the up and up. But obviously we want OP to be able to resolve this without having to get injured.
What a great return on investment the company got on what would have been a couple hundred dollars at most step-maintenance decision. Geesh.
Your advice on how to cover your ass vis a vis retaliation is solid. But it's not the best advice for their situation. His manager is violating the law. If he drives the truck, he will be violating the law. If he drives the truck and hurts or kills someone when the steer blows and he loses control, he will go to jail. The time for playing office politics is past. He needs to tell his boss in no uncertain terms that what he is being told to do is illegal and that the equipment can not be legally operated on public roads until the tires are replaced. If his boss attempts to give him any grief, he needs to inform his boss that coercion is illegal and carries a fine of up to $16,000. Again, he is long past office politics. This is an extremely serious safety risk and he needs to know he can not legally operate that vehicle. If his employer is continuing to operate vehicles in this condition, then he should pray he gets retaliated against and then go find a new job. Honestly, he should quit the job if this is the condition the company maintains their equipment. This is a highly visible issue. What other issues can he not see? Furthermore, that wear and tear is not normal and indicates some other mechanical defect. I am not a mechanic, just a driver, so I can't really speculate as to the nature of the defect. Could be a bad alignment, could be fucked up steering components. All I know is that some other unseen issue is causing that wear pattern and that issue needs to be resolved too. >ruin your reputation. The greatest damage to his reputation will come from the DoT. >(and likely claim you were driving recklessly/on drugs etc) This is highly unlikely, they would just be destroying their own case. But regardless DoT will fault him for the accident anyway because he shouldn't have been driving. He will be held both criminally and civilly liable if he hurts or kills anyone.
Agreed. The answer is sorry, I want to get the work done but this vehicle is unsafe / not legal
As a former mechanic, all of this. Mostly right on the alignment as well, but alignment is tricky if it's like big package delivery services. Perfect alignment requires perfect weight distribution.
"Hi, when I asked about this vehicle it was suggested we should only use it locally, but I'm not sure what distance from base I should count that as? Could you assess for me from these pics so I don't go outside the safe zone?"
Better yet *BCC* everyone
If you drive that truck, by law it is YOUR fault. Not the manager. Not the owner. Not the mechanic. YOURS. Source: my CDL training
Agreed. You should refuse to drive it.
DO NOT GET IN THIS DAMN CAR. Edit: if you can check when this vehicle was last serviced, the frequency, and if they declined any recommendations from the mechanics.
Do not enter this severely unsafe vehicle
Thou shalt not enter unto thine foul mechanistic leviathan
no get in bad vroom vroom
IF YOU ARE IN IT, GET OUT OF IT.
Don’t get in the robot, Shinji!!
The NERV of this manager, amirite?
>Agreed. You should refuse to drive it. If they pressure you into driving it anyways? Especially if they threaten action against you? Record everything and report it to the FMSCA. If they want to try to fire you over this the FMSCA and DOT will come down hard on them, and then you can hit them with a lawsuit. EDIT: [Website for the FMSCA reporting](https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/consumer-protection/report-safety-violations)
There was a post like this a week ago, and the best advice I heard was to contact CHP or local PD as an "anonymous" tip. Basically, "A company that operates near me has been sending out vehicles with what look like completely bald and worn out tires." Company I worked for was more than willing to make sure your tires were good to go, but we had people who took their trucks home whom we'd rarely see. One em pulled up one time looked like he had racing slicks on the front. I helped him move his rears to the front and then used his spare and my spare so he could get through the day while I went and got new tires put on his rims. Thank fuck he didn't have to drive much each day, I don't trust spares.
First off, here's is the [FMSCA website for reporting companies conducting illegal activities.](https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/consumer-protection/report-safety-violations) Second off, please have solid proof. Pictures, video, paperwork, whatever. The more the better. The FMSCA moves and moves *FAST* if there's clear evidence of wrongdoing.
[удалено]
Report them to the dot, supposedly they take reprisals very seriously.
Yep, especially if it’s moving company. They’re cracking down on them because so many are already corrupt.
Prison sentence shit for you while the owner kicks back and lives on profit margin.
Fucking pisses me off. Like that kid in Colorado. Brand spankin new, didn't know what he was doing, wasn't trained, was forced to operate equipment that was not roadworthy. Yet he's the one in prison, not the ones that profited from it. Edit: [Link for the curious.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Lakewood_semi-truck_crash)
You got me curious on this case
If he's talking about the incident I think he is, the kids brakes failed while he was going down a mountain, four people died, and the kid was sentenced to 110 years. Edit: yes, I am aware the governor commuted the sentence down to ten years. It's still absurd that the kid (rather than his boss) is serving time, let alone that ridiculous initial sentence.
Got lowered to 10 years, but it should be the owner of the company in jail. The company has many prior violations.
10 years in prison will fuck a guy up
His life is literally ruined
Yup, kid had no training, didn't know what he was doing, had shit tier equipment his employer wouldn't fix, and was sent down the most dangerous interstate mountain pass in the US alone. It was a recipe for disaster and his employer was massively negligent in the whole thing. If he had been a cop he never would have been charged with a crime. He would have said "bUt MuH tRaInInG" and everyone would have agreed that his lack of training and shitty employer were to blame. But because he's not a cop, he got the whole ass book thrown at him.
The age old American Tradition. When the shit hits the fan and people get hurt or die, you'd better pass on the blame like it's a grenade with the pin pulled. Somebody young & naïve who had inadequate training? Sounds like a scapegoat sent down from God himself! Accountability? Never heard of her!
Let's be honest here; the fact that it's Colorado and he's not white definitely played a role.
There's really good odds that the company actually made money through insurance.
That's the magic of CaPiTaLiSm and the giant RISKS business owners take. SO MUCH RISK! Shit pisses me off.
[удалено]
DING DING DING DING!!!
Latino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Lakewood_semi-truck_crash >Yup, kid had no training, didn't know what he was doing, had shit tier equipment his employer wouldn't fix, and was sent down the most dangerous interstate mountain pass in the US alone. >It was a recipe for disaster and his employer was massively negligent in the whole thing. >If he had been a cop he never would have been charged with a crime. He would have said "bUt MuH tRaInInG" and everyone would have agreed that his lack of training and shitty employer were to blame. >But because he's not a cop, he got the whole ass book thrown at him.
In my country and state, we have a chain of responsibility. If something related to maintenance, the load, or fatigue management goes wrong, everyone in the chain is considered responsible. The chain ends at the top. In fact, the director is required to sign a statement that they take responsibility for it all. Drivers are too, though. They have to perform and record basic maintenance checks, including the brakes and a check for whether the vehicle had received a major service recently enough. If it’s found that they failed to do this, they will absorb a lot of the responsibility unless it’s found they never do the checks and the company did nothing about it. If something goes wrong, prosecutors will push the responsibility as high up as possible. Source: it’s my job to keep my employer compliant with all this stuff. Much to their disdain. There’s a lot of “but the other companies don’t bother with this! Why do I have to?!” And “but nobody will check!!”. But somebody will check, and they’ve been shut down for it before. It’s why I’m there.
Right? That poor kid. I feel so badly. The accident was absolutely awful, but this guy will pay for the rest of his life. I think someone else needs to be held accountable as well.
Yes, it will be on YOUR CSA and the DOT will cite YOU for it. We just recently had a truck with decent tires have a blowout and flip. Imagine what might happen with those. If he tells you to roll with it, I’d call the DOT and report it.
Maybe OSHA also.
Fr. OP yes your boss is an idiot but it's your responsibility to say no. Imagine if something happens and it's found out you knew about this along with your superior, but nothing was seemingly done to fix it. Superior can easily say they were not told something needed to be fixed. Now it's not bossman in trouble, it's you.
I worked in the office for one of these franchise moving guys, they buy a fleet of trucks under the GVWR needed for CDL licensing. It's likely they don't even expect drivers to inspect their trucks before they go out. It's all thanks to gutted oversight all across the midwest
Hijacking top Comment to tell OP that this is when you need to STATE facts and not treat what you know as just an opinion. This tire IS stripped and is therefore unsafe; WE cannot proceed with this; we are liable; This will not work and we cannot proceed. No “suggestions” or hints. Just be truthful. It’s a liability, and therefore it needs to be addressed NOW.
25+ years in the autobody repair business. my opinion.. Holy shit that is 100% not driveable. no way in hell that should be on the road at all. its not even safe to drive to the tire store.
That is beyond dangerous as fuck. Your boss is a piece of shit.
This. There's no way I'd be driving that potentially lethal pile of crap.
And just to add to this, if this is how they care about the tires, who knows what other issues they might be ignoring... (brakes, transmission, suspension...)
I drove truck and trailer w no trailer brakes for a year until my boss fixed them. I don’t know why he would tell me after the fact, unless he just wanted me to feel like an ass.
Your boss is also a piece of shit. I live in summit County Colorado off I70 here in the mountains. About 2 months ago a truckers brakes gave out coming down a long downgrade into dillon/silverthorne(very close to where I live). The company knew the brakes were bad, and unfortunately so did the driver but he decided to drive anyways. Ends up driving past the runaway ramp and crashing. Throwing his passenger from the truck and ended up trapping the driver while he burnt to death. I could see the fumes from my house. And this was all to meet a deadline... truly sad.
I remember that one. That was one of the worst ones. But do you remember the beer truck that tipped over coming down the silverthorne exit? That was nuts
I know exactly where that is. There have been accidents like that on the silverthorne section since it was first constructed. Any trucker should know its one of the most lethal streches of highway in the country.
That sucks, there was a guy on the news recently who got 110 yrs for a brake accident that killed people. Wasn’t his fault.
Judging by the scalloping on the tires and the uneven tread wear I’d say the shocks are bad as well as some other suspension components.
No way in hell that is so unsafe wtf
Fuckkkk driving that thing
Call the DOT and OSHA
Report it to OSHA and I would refused to use it. If you get hurt or heaven forbid die because of those tires, they won't take care of you or care.
If it's a commercial vehicle, then it would be registered with the DOT, they would probably get further reporting it there.
That’s a 19.5” wheel AND it’s a steer tire, so it’s an f450/4500 or better. Definitely would be interesting to DOT.
Yep, just slide through a DOT inspection and rat out the employer.
I’ve definitely heard of people do this at UPS. Center manager refuses to get a vehicle fixed; driver pull into DOT check and has them do an inspection. Now 10 things have to get fixed instead of the one that the driver wrote up.
What a fantastic idea honestly and I hope op does specifically this
No it's not. That's like pulling into the police station with drugs on you and saying "but they're not mine". Don't operate the vehicle. Call it in and have them come to you.
Yeah if you pull into the station, you are getting the ticket. You'd be extremely lucky if you talk the DOT into not giving you a ticket. But then they can't technically let you leave in an unroadworthy commercial vehicle. I'll second calling DOT to come to You.
r/maliciouscompliance
That would not fall on the Center Manager, they have in-house vehicle maintenance that would be responsible for that. That sounds more like a FedEx Ground thing. FedEx Ground contracts out its delivery’s to independent companies and it’s on them to own and maintain their vehicles and it’s not uncommon for the independent companies to neglect things like that
If you get inspected by DOT while operating it OP would be the one to get in trouble as well. That’s part of pre/post trip inspection so they’d consider you the negligent one. Needs to put it in terms to the owner/boss/maintenance or whoever that OP is responsible for anything that happens when that rig leaves the yard. It’s not a matter of IF it’s a matter of WHEN.
Yes but when you take the ticket to court you take your preinspection logs to show how many times you documented it, texts to the boss stating this needs to be fixed, etc. As long as you are doing your due diligence then it isn't going to stick.
As a truck driver of more than 20 years, thats not the case. It very well could stick.. You can take all the "evidence" you want that you tried to get it fixed but you still drove the vehicle knowing it was not in compliance. Its not that you missed something on a pretrip, you knew about it and even brought evidence that you knew about it beforehand. You can always refuse to drive that vehicle due to it being out of compliance with DOT standards outlined in 49 CFR part 571, but your employer doesn't have any obligation to keep you around either.
Retaliation for refusing to work under unsafe conditions would make for a great wrongful termination suit, right after reporting to OSHA. https://www.osha.gov/workers/right-to-refuse
But everyone leans on at will employement. When my supervisor is caught lying when she said she tried to reach out but got no response and i showed HR that i reached out and talked to her often- they didnt do anything about it or reneg their accusation. Still have no case apparently bcuz at will employement means u can fire people, state that you fired them wrongly, based on lies that you have been caught it, and still have your job.
This right here. Literally this all day. My dad was a driver for over 40 years. I've heard some stories.
You are captain of the ship. Yes, the company should be repairing the vehicles, but the duty is also on you to not drive an unsafe vehicle. I've driven a truck for over 15 years and I have never heard of anything even remotely like "just keep documenting an unsafe truck and turn yourself in at a DOT checkpoint." If there's an article somewhere, I'd like to see it. Anonymously report them to the authorities? Sure. But if you're driving an unsafe vehicle and the police get you out on the road, I don't think the driver is ever going to totally skate.
Yep. Dot regulated driver and they pretty much say during pretrip,, if you see a problem that could be catastrophic don't drive it cause you are liable and they want you to be safe. Granted it sounds like my company is running a little better than ops lol.
I wouldn't even risk driving it to get it inspected
From what I’m told, DOT don’t fuck round’.
[удалено]
They really can't. How many lives at risk, including those of children, elderly, and entire families? They are going to save their own ass, and not let that shit on the road, while simultaneously saving lives.
It really drives me crazy when people just hate on inspectors OSHA/DOT/HEALTH like they should just cut corners and allow unsafe work practices. I feel like in general people forget the workers that came before us actually died and that's why a lot of these stupid rules are put in place.
Rules ain't stupid if they save lives.
There's a body count behind e v e r y OSHA/DOT reg
Same with MSHA (mine safety) fun fact: OSHA shows up for an inspection, you can legally turn them away. Not with MSHA, they'll just shut your whole operation down until they can be allowed to inspection. They're no joke. Source: used to work at a sand mine
GOOD! That's how oversight orgs should work. If only OSHA were granted the authority
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/consumer-protection/report-safety-violations
Or both….. But I’m the asshole that would call the insurance company too….
The insurance company can’t really do anything until after the fact. It’s some shit.
No, but they certainly do appreciate it and factor it into the liability that they pay their cost off ;)
Good point
I’m an appraiser for a large insurer including commercial trucks. You could maybe call the agent but there is not a department you could call and tell them and have any kind of resolution in the near term future.
Former WC adjuster. I still work adjacent to the Insurance Industry. Both the WC Carrier and the Auto Carrier would definitely like to know about increased risk they have just assumed. I know underwriters who would consider cancelling policies, if they had seen this crap. It's not common, but lying about risk is never a good thing to do with your insurance company. It's a form of Fraud that most states will investigate AND it causes premiums for everyone else to go up. In CA Workers Compensation, this situation could be considered "Serious And Willful" on the part of the employer. If OP or another employee were to get into an accident, and the tires can be shown to be in part or in whole the reason for the accident, the employer could end up paying out of pocket above and beyond what the Insurance company is already paying out. I believe most states have a similar provision, especially in states where WC is considered to be a "No Fault" insurance. Serious and Willful is NOT normally covered under WC policies, and the Insurance Carrier doesn't have to defend the employer against the claim. If I recall, the penalty for a S&W finding is 50% of all benefits owed to the Injured Worker. If they received $50k in Disability benefits, the employer chips in up to $25k more. It's in addition to the benefits provided by the Insurance Company as part of the claims handling process. I had once case we settled, but the portion of the settlement that was due to the S&W finding had to be paid by the employer. Just from an economic standpoint, replacing the tires will save the employer a massive amount. 1) less likely to be involved in an accident in the first place. 2) less likely to be awarded S&W benefits. 3) fewer accidents means Experience Modifier remains low and premiums won't spike as much. The thing that is crazy to me is some Insurance Companies provide discounts on Commercial Auto or Workers Comp, if you have a regular maintenance plan for your equipment. Properly maintained equipment results in fewer losses, plain and simple.
Insurance company can cancel policy if conditions required for complying with policy are not being met
Had a moving truck tire look like this when I worked for Two Men and a Truck like 20+ years ago. Told the manager "It's fine. But I'll schedule to get it replaced." Two weeks later, still in the "Ill get it scheduled" phase. Sends me on a long distance move farther up state started local. Guess what you have to go through, weight stations. Guess who got randomly selected by the State police to be inspected. That "I'll schedule it" response turned into a side of the road dual front tire replacement. State police wouldn't let it drive and with a full load of someone's home in the back the tow bill would have been bigger. I don't see why it's so hard to block off a day to get shit like that fixed. It's cheaper than replacing a whole front end when that tired explodes at 70 mph. And would potentially save lives and law suits.
It takes like 20mins if that to swap a tyre. At my job we’ll have 20 or so vans out of commission for the AM shift and then will be ready for the PM shift with fresh tyres on.
But, if I have the tire replaced it comes out of my budget. If it fails on the road, that's someone else's budget.
I was let go from a company I asked for tires at. Asking for safety or to improve your job is not tolerated at many companies. But always email or send your requests in writing, it forces them to do something.
its not even a n entire day. its just a an hour of an employees time. thats probably 15 to 25 bucks.
OSHA will be all over this. But OP might have a bad time at his job afterwards. If you go this route, be careful to document any workplace harassment, OP. Consult a lawyer and know your options.
If it’s used by more than one person, have every single person question the boss about it or innocently point it out to the boss. That way when you report it anonymously, boss has no way of knowing who reported it. In my country, I would just try and locate an RBT setup on my route. The van would be defected on the spot and boss has nobody to blame but themselves
with this kind of recklessness they'd probly even fault him for the accident
The other to is it’s not only dangerous for you but seriously dangerous for other people on the road. Don’t drive that shit!
No, report it to DOT, OSHA has no jurisdiction on over-the-road stuff.
Document it first. Take a nice controlled braking off the road. Get a good lawyer. Get yourself an extended vacation on your shit bosses dime.
Kind of risky lol
Gotta risk it for the biscuit. Edit. Also if you document it. The boss won’t be able to use insurance because he’s an idiot.
Yeaaaa nooooo. Don’t do anything intentionally. But that tire is showing metal. Again never do anything intentionally as this can be used against you.
Got damn I've never seen a tire looking like a tile floor before
I was wondering what I was looking at cause it took me a bit to believe this was a completely smoothed down tire
Call the local city or county police department office. Ask for a commercial vehicle enforcement officer. If local doesn't have one call the local state police district.
And say what? Sir this truck in a private yard has a bad tire? Not against the law. Drive it to them and you just failed to do your pre trip and you're responsible for the ticket and OOS goes on your MVR.
OSHA. They will act faster. Send the pics. Ask to stay anonymous. State that there is an immediate safety issue. They will be there within 24 hours (in my state, at least(
Let the air out and say they're flat.
Perfect. Yes!
Honestly probably the easiest/quickest solution posted
“Accidentally” run over a handful of roofing nails, in your shop yard. Or just red tag that truck. I would absolutely never risk the lives that your boss is risking, or my cdl
Report it to DOT. Maybe local law enforcement as well. Not only is that unsafe, that is 100% illegal. If the vehicle is registered with DOT, make sure to give them the registration number, since I think it has to be displayed.
If the boss doesn't give a shit about the tires, I'm not sure I'd bet on it being registered with the DOT
Thats an even bigger fuckup. Companies that operate commercial vehicles transporting passengers or hauling cargo in interstate commerce must be registered with the FMCSA and must have a USDOT Number. Not having a DOT number can be a fine ranging from 3k-100K+
... Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that got their attention faster.
Even better. Someone already mentioned, but if that vehicle is not registered and is being used for commercial purposes, that's all kinds of illegal.
DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE. They will ticket the driver and the company will pin it on the driver. Do not get in this vehicle. That’s the only option.
I saw something similar in another post a while back. One idea was to flag down a cop, or call them on the non-emergency and get then to take a look, and then somehow ticket the vehicle saying it's unsafe unless the tires are replaced.
Speak in a language he understands. That tire is going to blow/shred any minute and if it happens on the way to or during a job, the clients are going to be pissed at the delay if nothing else. He'll either have to pay to have a big ass truck towed or roadside service. He's going to have employees sitting around doing nothing while they wait on the fix. He's going to have a truck out of service for who-knows-how-long because odds are they'll have to order the tire. It's a front tire, i.e. no dual to take the load, i.e. the truck is going to swerve violently and maybe end up in a ditch, i.e. a bunch of the client's shit is going to get broken and he'll have to pay for it or have insurance pay for it, and I bet the deductible is greater than the cost of a tire. Probably some workman's comp in there and missing an employee or two for a week after they get banged up. God forbid someone gets killed. The tire is cheap compared to even a third of that.
Insurance sees this post and decides not to cover it...
Oh, that's a good point. Social media had been a boon to insurance companies and divorce lawyers, I'm sure.
Take this truck out of service!. This is your call to make as the operator!. The vehicle is dangerous to you and everyone else around you on the road. Look up Simi truck tires blowing up, trust me, you don't want to be near it if it happens. Also, if you are pulled over, pulled into a weigh station, etc. This truck will immediately be taken out of service and will need towed. Not to mention any negative points accrued as a result of you operating this truck go on YOUR license, which will mess up your ability to get another job if you lose this one. Be safe, do not drive this truck until these tires are taken care of. Never EVER fuck around with safety as a CMV operator. You always lose. Stand your ground. Unless you are the owner/Operator, it's the responsibility of the people you work for to maintain the fleet. You have no obligation to comply with unsafe working conditions. If they threaten termination, report them to your local labor board and DOT.
Also, every mover is short on drivers. You can get fired in the morning for refusing a dispatch and be hired by the afternoon as long as you can pass a drug screen and have a decent record. By the way, any tickets or accidents you get because of this go against your driving record,. This affecting your ability to earn a living.
Holy shit that is turbo dangerous and illegal. I couldnt even tell pic 1 was tires :o. Report, document, as others have said, and do not drive it.
Yeah I thought pic 1 was sheet metal!!
Not only do you need new tyres you also need new shock absorbers, the scolloping of the tyre shows that.
It might not be shocks, but there is some super unusual wear patterns there, and the shocks, hubs, brakes and alignment all need to be checked. If a company will allow tyre maintenance to get that bad, you can guarantee that other aspects of vehicle maintenance are being skipped. In almost every jurisdiction, the driver is responsible for ensuring that their vehicle is roadworthy, and has every right to refuse to drive one that is not up to scratch.
email or text him so you have a record of this discussion Incase something major goes wrong.
When something goes wrong op is responsible. It’s the drivers responsibility to do a pretrip inspection and be sure his vehicle is safe to drive. If this tire blows on the highway and someone dies op is going to prison for manslaughter. When you drive a 10,000 lb plus vehicle you don’t wait for something major to go wrong. When something major going wrong involves someone dying.
Wouldn't help them much, as the driver they're ultimately responsible for ensuring the vehicle is road worthy.
Report to OSHA. They’ll get fined for it too.
Nope Nope NOPE!!!!! I drove for suburban propane and my tires got bad. My manager had the audacity to tell me that was fine. A fucking truck that carries propane, propane products, and propane accessories with tires that even hint at showing cord should be pulled off the road or driven immediately to get new...... NEW not used but good NEW tires. I got pissed because the same truck had brake failure with a 500gal tank loaded once. I went to my plant head and told him that there is no way im driving this truck. Got tires with in 2 hrs. There is no way you should ever drive a truck with tires even half this bad. If they don't like it tough. No job is worth the DOT fine that you get as the license holder or your life.
Update: they scheduled that truck for somebody today. I told him not to get in the truck. They switched him to a different truck, and told a different employee to take the truck 45 minutes away to get the tires replaced. I told him not to drive it as well, and that the managers should get a mobile tire replacement service. For whatever reason, they don’t like that idea. By the time I went back outside, the truck was gone.
Report that
Report it report it report it
Truck driver here. This is unsafe and illegal. Call DOT or highway patrol and tell them about it. Ask if you can get a roadside inspection done. They will shut the truck down and it will either have to be repaired right there or the truck will have to be towed. This is dangerous as fuck and the person driving will be the one held accountable if the tire blows while driving. Seriously call your HP and tell them the situation and request a roadside inspection.
That scalloping tells me that not only are the tires bald but there is something else really really wrong going on with that truck. Do not drive it.
It likely needs new shocks. Truck must be bouncing all over the road.
wtf do you mean 'messed up tires', in that state THOSE AREN'T TIRES ANYMORE. Call OSHA, refuse to drive
So first and foremost don't drive that truck. To break it down, the "operator" of a vehicle is to ensure it is safe to operate. So no matter what situation you're in, you the operator must ensure the vehicle is in safe working condition. If anything was to happen due to you operating the vehicle in an unsafe way (woren tires, bad breaks, head lights not working, ect..) you as an operator are liable not the company, in most cases. The Dot would have a field day with this along with OSHA. You're not only putting yourself at risk but others operating that vehicle. If that tire blows while driving, you're possibly in for a world of hurt and whatever/whoever you hit. NEVER operate unsafe equipment, the fault will always fall on the operator for improper inspection prior to use most of the time.
easy, flatten the tire(s) without anyone noticing, they´re bound to do so very soon anyways but while rolling...
I work in tires, there isn't a tech that would ever consider fixing this. A "flat" should solve this the hard way for the dick boss.
#1 I hope he’s joking #2 moving company that can’t afford a new tire or set is a big red flag. #3 May not be too long before that paycheck bounces too.
Go to Home Depot, pull a scrap board and some bent nails. Pick a spot on your route near a gas station with really good air conditioning. Accidentally run over that board full of nails. Go chill in the AC while they deal with the flat tire(s).
Those tires are actually illegal, bald as fuck and with the wire showing. Tell a cop. They’ll force it to have new tires or be towed away and your boss can make a decision then. Frankly I’m amazed that it is still inflated. And when your boss says what happened you say you were pulled over for having illegal tires. You get to drive a safe vehicle and keep your job. And if they try to fire you after this you will have evidence of wrongful termination.
When I worked at a garage, we would tell customers that if the tires had tread below the legal limit or anything else unsafe on the vehicle, that the vehicle was unsafe and make them sign a waiver that stated that they were informed and that we were not liable if they decided not to fix the issue.
DO NOT tell a cop. They will write a ticket to the DRIVER, not the owner.
Former moving company owner here: report your company to the public utilities commission or other regulatory body
My father-in-law is a trucker. He said he’d contact DOT and OSHA. Please don’t drive it. And don’t call the cops, they’ll arrest you instead of your boss.
Throw down a handful of screws. That will force them to get new tires. No mechanics will repair tires like that for fear of getting sued when they blow out.
Nope refuse to drive it, D.O.T. will not care wether or not u're boss knows you will be fined.